Is it OK to disagree with Osho?

I came across this Osho quote the other day,which made me think.Advanced meditators will have to indulge me for the fact that it did not cause me to stop thinking altogether,but i obviously haven`t reached their exalted level,yet.
I am generally not so keen to toss Osho quotes around.
Not so much from fear of infringing a copyright, but rather from the fact that it always seems to me that tossing an Osho quote in to back up one`s opinion shows a lack of imagination or intelligence.
So,given that i am not a serial Osho tosser..
Here goes,just this once..
..
“You have to be reminded that your being a disciple does not mean that you have to agree with me on anything whatsoever,except meditation.
Our relationship is only of meditation and of nothing else.
I am not proposing a doctrine to which you have to subscribe.Neither am i proposing a religion that you have to be part of.
You don`t have to agree with me on anything-any of my statements.I dont have that type of investment at all.
You are absolutely free to agree or disagree,or remain indifferent.only on one point are you here with me.That point is meditation.”

I do wonder why so many take Osho`s statements on, for example,rape,politics,stalinism,terrorism,science,art,literature,therapy,tarot,music or whatever as the last word?
Seems fanatical at worst,but more realistically,a bit dim. As if having your own opinion will be “in the mind”,but parroting Osho`s somehow keep you in the clear?

 

This entry was posted in News. Bookmark the permalink.

106 Responses to Is it OK to disagree with Osho?

  1. Arpana says:

    The Japanese master Nan-in gave audience to a professor of philosophy.

    Serving tea, Nan-in filled his visitor’s cup, and kept pouring.

    The professor watched the overflow until he could restrain himself no longer: “Stop! The cup is over full, no more will go in.”

    Nan-in said: “Like this cup, you are full of your own opinions and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup.”

    • Lokesh says:

      I’ve been reading my empty tea cup’s tea leaves and coupled with Gandhooji’s grace I get the message that Osho’s above statement is right on the money. Mind you, I did take the brown acid.

  2. prem martyn says:

    er what is meditation ?.. form , essence, process,intention,insight, attunement or something imprecise, attended to yes, yet anointed only by that which fully attends in presence not from our sole limitations, but from the presence which sufficient love bestows. Meditation is such an empty word, but empty and unattractive. I would be the first to oppose calling any centre a meditation centre, given a choice ,or, in being asked for one.

    indefinable….

    and is our so called choice in what we agree or disagree with ….is that pre-configured and not part of choice as we understand it in regards to Osho?

    I, as far as I can remember have disliked , which is obvious I hope from my writings both the form, and the intent taken in the manner regularly offered by for example Osho centres and Osho himself. The receiving of his lectures was always a form of discipline , at least in part and not of absolute beatific engagement, at least not for this writer.Sometimes yes , though not as a full time discourse goer. The overall effect though was and is unique and permeated even encrusted selves like mine, perhaps. But that was then.

    Which has not prevented me from experiencing (in the long and distant past) realities and experiences which others may call meditatively related but which I prefer to give no easy category to either by approach or by outcome.
    If others wish to define me by how much meditative form I practise then it will be easy enough to exclude myself from their opus. And I’m happy to do so. I don’t suppose that makes a blind bit of difference to them or me as a result, or anyone else including Osho and his legacy.

  3. shantam prem says:

    Who says there is no need to disagree with Osho.
    Bring the better point of view, Osho will becomes obsolete, the way Iphone has taken the place of Nokia.
    But when a grown up stands on a chair like a child to prove he is taller than his father, then it is an adoloscent ego in play.
    No problem with that too, it just looks funy, almost like seeing a professor scraching his crotch in the class!

  4. martyn says:

    Shantam, if it floats your boat to think like that and you benefit from the company of those who correspond with you in that way, fine…but that’s not for me… and I have seen the failure of sannyas corporatism along the lines of what you offer… it does not provoke me, nor sponsor my rapport with anything you mention…. again I see you, from behind a laptop screen as a type…. as a congruent trustable salvationist…for others…en masse ….if only they understood you and your Osho as being conveniently complete.

    Your sense based apparent devotionalism does not travel very far across the internet to a westernised audience , but it might be great for a psychologically younger , yet faithful /mentally rigid ,compartmentalised religiously trained Indian audience.

    You may well be emotively religiously engaged… that’s not something that is testable…. in my experience Indians lack the analysis that Osho was famed for. Indians are traditionally iconoclasts, which is why Osho sounds sweeter in Hindi because it is naturally more poetic and less functional. But when an Indian accent is overlayed onto an English dialogue, it makes the speaker sound robotic and underpowered in emotional subtlety or rapport, in general terms. Like ‘ich liebe dich’ in German sounds like heavy chewing instead of affectionate poesy. it was to Osho’s credit that he overcame the restrictions of an Indian accent and its restrictions to make his voice appealing and intimate.

    Unfortunately your own constant attempts at heralding a simplified version of Osho, historically appeals to iconoclasm and the consequent disaster of borrowed identity and corporate values which you actually resent …..when it doesn’t match your own ambitions.

    You don’t seem to be inclusive of a discussion which is either passionately informed through communal interdependence, or intellectually/emotively satisfying for autonomous individuals. It’s not a spirit of enquiry which is dangerous , but the manner of giving answers which have one aim, collective behavioural conformity for an idea or predetermined sense of belonging to a group.

    The greatest fault is in not being able to be transparent about motives, using presumptions about what Oshoness is, to replicate itself out of convenience, not truth or enquiry. Transparency is the key, which allows for inclusion. Admiration or sensation is probably, not universally, enough. Otherwise I’m sure Cliff Richard could have saved the world by now.

    currently i am surrounded by a midnight scene of frosted snow bound mountainsides outside… aesthetics seem to naturally resent formulas ..so why should i try to create one for others…

    goodnight…

    • Lokesh says:

      Martyn, beautifully put, hats off to you, man, that is absolutely first class writing and a real pleasure to read. I’m sure I would enjoy to meet you, so if you are ever down on Ibiza’s funky north side be sure to get in touch.
      In a way I would probably enjoy to meet Shantam also but in a very different way. A few of the regulars on SN come across as interesting people. I met Parmartha some time back on the island and found him to be a first class chap. Although many would, I am sure, disagree, I’d say SN is a pretty good site in sannyas dimenesion say in comparison to the more orthodox sannyasin websites who seem to be based on the banks of de nile and write a lot of generally boring stuff with tons of Osho quotes and smiley pics of the man himself. The old boy was very fussy about what pictures of himself would go public.
      I disagree with a fair amout of what Osho said. On the other hand I’d say he delivered a massive amout of info that can be of great benefit to many.

      • prem martyn says:

        lokesh..cheque’s in the post… thanks for the invite…i’ll let you know….i have a good friend working in Almeria so possibly ,yes, ta vm.

        • Lokesh says:

          Cool. Mind you I might stay at Gandhooji’s ashram for the rest of my life. I really want to achieve enlightenment and impress the folks back on the island.
          Love…

  5. Preetam says:

    Personally, I never have a problem challenging a statement of Osho about worldly issues. Frequently I thought it must be an overreaching self-esteem, what perhaps is true for my ability. But, if something has to be issued… he left us his dream – what means growing – growing needs challenge perhaps till truth is found. According Meditation I have no doubt into Osho. He simply wants to pull me out of separateness, transforming by realizing Karman – Truth what Meditation is, or the highest yoga, into my self. But, if a minority likes a profane life of Gatherer and Hunter they should life it, but leave the majority who wants to life in Freedom their peace, otherwise it is a challenge.

  6. Kavita says:

    ‘I do wonder why so many take Osho`s statements on, for example,rape,politics,stalinism,terrorism,science,art,literature,therapy,tarot,music or whatever as the last word’
    simply because these persons ( ‘so many’ ) , dont want to rack their brains / they havent heard anything on these subjects before / have been in bliss & want to continue to live in bliss !

    • prem martyn says:

      Kavita, good to know someone out there reads us especially if its a .. oh what do we call them on SN.. erm erm.. ah yes .. a femen..(see previous blog title…)
      nice and feisty is good…

      I always write with a woman in mind….it helps me focus on what to do after the talking is over…

      Can I book my individual session.. as I have some stuff coming up….?

      • Kavita says:

        you know Martyn , I injoy this site mainly because there is mostly always some food for thought & Martyn diet suits me the best .
        btw Iam not a serious feminist / anything but sometimes just like to play it out . The only thing Iam seriously interested is to breath !

        these days Iam only taking group sessions !

  7. kaivalyam says:

    Extreme forms of “fundamentalism” can appear in any tradition or discipline, as well as moderate to lesser forms. It has to do with numerous issues such as the desire for eternal stability, fear of change, lack of self-confidence, laziness and so forth. But excuses are beside the point. Eventually you have to get up and walk on your own feet. You can sit there and cry for daddy and mommy to come change your diapers all day long, but at some point they wont be there anymore. A large percentage of “grown” “adults” are stuck in infantile modes of behavior where they require regular “feedings” and “ass wipings” and just an inordinate amount of care and guidance from external sources. They just cant take care of themselves. Plenty of people live their entire lives that way. Its fairly common.

  8. shantam prem says:

    Martyn/Frank/Lokesh and Bros.When i see your writings, it gives me a clear feeling, as far as understanding the western mind is concerned even Osho seems to have failed.Basically what Osho knew about the west was from the philosophical books written during the desperate time of early last century. Personally He has no personal experience about the western achievements and its shadow side.One can say, He came across more western people in His life then any other Indian. After all , you all guys also went to Him, changed your name, carried his mala the way Swiss cows wear the bells, shouted hoo hoo hoo, and now in the early fifties of sixties ask yourself, why you played joker in the circus?Was it a desperation to avoid depression of being failure in the main stream life or the greed to get this intangible product called Nirvana at discount price? And i am no one to deny that it was not a sincere sense to know the mysteries of life.It is really a worth asking question, why the fuck you guys have spend decades around an Indian and still 23 years after His death, are trying to beat His shadow as if it is demon deciding your future.

    • frank says:

      shantam says”why the fuck do you guys etc…”
      leaving aside the fact that “why the fuck” implies not a genuine inquiry,simply a rhetorical question…
      A.because it is an interesting excercise,with a lot to be learnt.
      thats it.
      do you have a problem with that?

    • bodhi vartan says:

      shantam prem says:
      > why the fuck you guys have spend decades around an Indian and still 23 years after His death, are trying to beat His shadow as if it is demon deciding your future.

      I have no answer to that question though I never see it as beating his shadow (what does it mean, anyway?). Myself I am a polymath and I have never come across anyone like Osho. Historically perhaps Nietzsche and Pythagoras but I don’t know if either of them had the physical magnetism of Our Friend.

      The only reason I do Osho stuff is because it’s fun. Where you see demons I see angels.

    • Lokesh says:

      Shantam, you simply are not getting something that is going on here at SN. You may well be experiencing a feeling but what’s that to say that it is to be trusted in relation to your perceptions of the world? As you believe things and people to be so they will appear.
      Jimi Hendrix wrote a song called ‘Room Full of Mirrors’. Here’s a quote that I suspect you will not understand. Or at least have not understood up to this point in relation to your fellow commentators. Don’t worry about it because you are not alone in this limitation.
      ‘I used to live in a room full of mirrors
      All I could see was me
      Well I take my spirit and I smash my mirrors
      Now the whole world is here for me to see
      I said the whole world is here for me to see.’

      • eckhart says:

        looks like GandhuLokka is obsessed playing with words and making simple thing complex for ego. His friend ..house full of mirrors has written this under influence of drug with conditioned mind.
        Widely associated with the use of psychedelic drugs, particularly lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD), Hendrix had never taken psychedelic drugs until the night he wrote song house full of mirrors under influence of drugs, but had smoked cannabis. Hendrix also used amphetamines, especially during tours. Friends and bandmates reported that Hendrix would sometimes become angry and violent when he drank too much alcohol. Though illicit drugs alone did not seem to produce a significant negative effect on him, when he mixed them with alcohol, he would often become incendiary.Hendrix friend, Herbie Worthington, explains: “You wouldn’t expect somebody with that kind of love to be that violent … He just couldn’t drink … he simply turned into a bastard.”

  9. bodhi vartan says:

    To me listening to Osho is like listening to music. I am not looking for information, I’ve got Google for that. Lately I’ve been doing a lot of reading, listening to, and watching Osho discourses … and I am not feeling it as a discipline, more like a walk in the park.

    Agreeing or disagreeing is a mind phenomenon. My relationship with him is on a different level. When I catch him being wrong of various details, I just smile and feel superior, but on reorganising my insides and giving me direction he is second to none.

    As I get to know him more through his works, I can see that he has placed many traps for intellectuals so he needs to be approached with caution and lots of heart. I am currently working on an Ariadne’s thread through his works to help newcomers and those who feel they know everything to pick the right bits, from what looks like an impossible volume of work.

    If you haven’t as yet got around to getting enlightened and you are still a sannyasin all you have-to do is meditate and listen to Osho and the rest will fall into place. If it doesn’t then give up and go do something else.

    • Arpana says:

      Great post.

      \(^o\) (/o^)/

    • Lokesh says:

      Getting enlightened is a misconception. No human being has ever ‘got’ enlightened. If you believe that listening to Osho discourses is going to bring you enlightenment I can only conclude that you must be stupid.
      It was in part due to my years spent with Osho that I came to understand that. If you enjoy listening to Osho discourses well and good. If you truely believe that and I quote, ‘all you have-to do is meditate and listen to Osho and the rest will fall into place.’, I suggest that it might be more realistic to follow your own advice…’give up and go do something else.’ Although I’d recommend dropping the ‘do something else’ part. Doing is perhaps your greatest obstacle in the search to find out who you really are.

      • bodhi vartan says:

        Lokesh says:
        > If you believe that listening to Osho discourses is going to bring you enlightenment I can only conclude that you must be stupid.

        How would you know? Enlightenment for you would be to drop the past. Your past … and start listening with fresh ears.

        > I suggest that it might be more realistic to follow your own advice…’give up and go do something else.’

        On what grounds are you basing your recommendation?

        > Although I’d recommend dropping the ‘do something else’ part. Doing is perhaps your greatest obstacle in the search to find out who you really are.

        You are projecting and repeating Osho words. I’m not in any search to find who I am and I have no issues with ‘doing’. To the wrong person even relaxation is a ‘doing’.

        • Lokesh says:

          Vartan, you’ve confirmed in my mind that you are…ehm…er…confused.

        • prem martyn says:

          I am not in any search to find who you are either Vartan…
          could we make a members only club of people who are not in search of looking for you..?

          Or should we make it a pay per view channel?

    • prem martyn says:

      Vartan
      That’s your version of events for yourself , which does not brook exchange.

      Mine does, at all levels and has been proven as such even in adversity (mine ) from the self professed conformites, who were hollow mean sabotaging nothings without their impositions and assumptions ‘donated’ at a high ethical price until brought down a peg or two.
      Is that you or do you support that genus ? If calculus is your deal, perhaps you can work it out, formulaically. But it doesn’t hold for the range of interactions you have exampled of your own invective, thus far on SN. I fully defend your right to hold that view and even to spread it but not without constant accountability in areas of public concern such as therapy , running centres, bringing up sannyas kids , realtionship edicts ,collectively held responsibilities etc etc.
      But as an opinion you are welcome to set it to music.As it would be very pretty I’m sure.

      I despair of the suggestion that you are providing an entry for newcomers. But it would fit your attempts here to be oracular.

      Arpana on the other hand just needs help and can’t bear the dissonance of any archetyple let alone interpersonal provocation without establishing protected territory to start with.Which is in inverse proportion to the quantum of sannyas logic and measurable therapeutic events as I have clearly itemized before now to him directly and specifically when he attacked again from the convenience of a computer screen, with one wordisms. Perhaps a rare gay form, but not in the spirit of sannyas, though perhaps a Peter Mandelsonian anally retentive type control freak daddy type sannyas.

      Arpana would do well to evidence his own arguments , but failing which he is curt and slanderous, and seeks shelter in loudspeakerisms, and others defensive manoeuvres.
      Arpana employs the notion of necessarily convincing others he enjoys his guru ultrapersonally because just possibly there is shelter in that for his fragility (as an associated anything which he chooses to land on) ……and anyone who isn’t of the same defined propensity spiritual sexual mechanical, maniacal, ,meditational must be an ogre, and demonised and so unloving of Oshoness by definition.. obviously … of course.
      He Arpana is still smarting from the fact that i (once memorably) dared call osho a cunt. Being that the cunt is dead, he must also be somewhat of a dead cunt lover. Which is not in my dictionary of sexual mores, however I understand the Egyptian muslims allow for that with their dead wives, once only though.

      Is that also acceptable because it is sanctioned by a corpus of self appointed mentally – ‘proto emotive’ credenti . Or is it just weird ?

      Neither of you seem to have understood the nature of the aestehetics you represent and enjoy the authority which consolation provides ..which you just so happen wish to surreptitiously inveigle others into by being crutch providers … but without the give away self mocking joking that is embryonic of that understanding you want to impose but cannot offer.

      • prem martyn says:

        Vartan.. here’s some more free fresh air….

        ….and as for listening to osho and meditating……i’m delighted you wish to confirm to all and sundry that, that is the measure of your sannyas, in aeternam by selective definition as a valued legacy holder, by opposing the sannyas’ historical collective variety of experience and thought and its evidencing here ,and the sometimes unpalatable consequences of rote deformations, in amongst the devotion and joy.

        It would be remiss for you to ask the same self definition, of anyone here on that basis, and thankfully you have never been in a position to quantify for another the measure of their integrity or disposition or have responsibility for equable validations.
        Also , guvnor, I paid for my ticket and spent it how I chose, and i received plenty of validations.I was not a lone wolf.

        What this is, is reflections on Then. You might enjoy knowing that I did this type of engagement to great appeal from others, who in equal positions of seniority appreciated my non abstractionist participation. Without loss or favour to anyone.
        If one is to have an effect one has to work from the inside out of this puzzle, not as you would wish, elsewhere.That actually is defaming of the creative rebelliousness which is the basis for our human responsibility to truth applied , not metaphysical aspirations. Although now, elsewhere is precisely after a quarter of a century, is where I find myself. Is that Ok for you or should I do some more book throwing artillery ?

        Ps
        I am writing a book on Vegetarian Sufis and I want to be a best seller in the mosques. Maybe some of us enjoy the ride.
        pps they actually do exist btw. That’s mud in your eye eh?

      • bodhi vartan says:

        prem martyn says:
        I despair of the suggestion that you are providing an entry for newcomers. But it would fit your attempts here to be oracular.

        Nearly there, my approach is sibylline.

  10. shantam prem says:

    Doing is perhaps your greatest obstacle in the search to find out who you really are.
    Who you are, who am I?
    Is this also not a kind of borrowed fashion?
    What we expect basically from finding who am I, by doing or doing nothing.
    Once they have found out, who they are, will Aries who am I will think similar to Pisces; who am I!
    No, they will not think…they will just smyle.
    Smiles are almost the same in every culture!

    • Lokesh says:

      Shantam, it is about time you got over your fixed idea that people who live in Europe and USA only get involved with the spiritual quest because it’s a fashionable thing to do. Your whole ‘India is the fountain of all things spiritual’ is pure bullshit. Even in Scotland we have gurus, Shri Rab Nesbit and Sir Billy Connelly to name two. Smiles are almost the same in every culture is not exactly big news either. Why not buy a few Sir Billy Connelly DVDs and try a new approach. Here’s a link to one of Sir Billy’s discourses on religion. It will help you understand what I’m driving at.


      The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

      • bodhi vartan says:

        You forgot swami Boil …

        The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

      • eckhart says:

        foolish and coward billy connelly never stands for his words …come through his conditioned mind. In October 2004, during an 18-night stint at London’s Hammersmith Apollo, Connolly was criticised for making jokes about the hostage Kenneth Bigley. Shortly after Connolly joked about the future killing of the hostage and touched on the subject of Bigley’s young Thai wife, Bigley was beheaded in Iraq. Connolly claims he was misquoted. He has declined to clarify what he actually said, claiming that the context was as important as the precise words use… look how political he became as soon as caught red handed : context was as important … u fucker ..fuck off with yr context and get a life …. u low life homo pimp.

        • satyadeva says:

          I don’t think you understand the sort of performer Billy Connolly is, egghead. Did you actually see the show in question? And have you ever watched him perform, I wonder…Almost certainly not, it would seem.

          If so, the fact is you have no idea what you’re talking about, you’re just seizing on something that seems ‘convenient’ for your Lokesh-bashing purposes (not to mention your anti-Ghandoo-ji hate agenda, of course).

          As i’ve said before, ask your doctor for a sense of humour transplant – it’s a matter of extreme urgency!

        • Lokesh says:

          At least Billy had an audience,

  11. prem martyn says:

    Shantam you escaped to the west and live in a country which shelters you, and was made from the ashes of a traumatised generation which took years to unravel its emotional scars. If Guru worship will defend those freedoms of psychological and sexual health evolved through and after post war trauma, which we now take for granted, then step forward and I will kiss your icons to protect the world I live in.

    Osho’s sannyas is a definer of social realities, but not a universal creator of them by any stretch of the imagination either in, through, or of corporate meditation.
    Does anyone else looking at Veeresh also see the Bronx street fighter in him, surrounded by sweet adoring girls of the bourgeoisie or is it just me seeing a tough nut in loons ?
    Shantam…
    I do not choose to live in India. Verstehen Sie, raus raus..ein zwei ein zwei eins

    • alokjohn says:

      Martyn wrote : “Does anyone else looking at Veeresh also see the Bronx street fighter in him, surrounded by sweet adoring girls of the bourgeoisie or is it just me seeing a tough nut in loons .” I agree.

      • Lokesh says:

        Veeresh is alright in my book. If you find yourself in the Humaniversity in Clogland it should awaken you to the fact that you really do have problems. Something for Shantam perhaps.
        In the early days I used to wonder why the old boy gave the man so much juice, because, if you take his props away, he’s just another wee fish in the tank. In retrospect I now see that Veeresh was just another part in the jigsaw puzzle picture of Osho’s plan to spread the word…or words, millions of them. I recently watched him give an emotional discription of who Osho was to him. Get your hankies out. Osho was a manifestation of pure love…or some such waffle that completely ignores many of Osho’s personal attributes, some of which are kind of difficult to fit into an image of a man portrayed as a manifestation of pure love. Quite a number of early western sannyasins are still peddling that hokum and get a lot out of being someone who understood Osho…ho-hum. Tickets for satsang this way please.

        • frank says:

          the problem with the humaniversity “therapy”is that it doesnt work!
          as a self-proclaimed “rehab”,reg with dutch govt…as i saw it, more participants came out with worse habits than they went in with!
          lokesh,you yourself say you picked up a longterm tobacco habit from just doing one of veeresh`s groups.on what level was that therapeutic?
          thats par for the “therapeutic” course there.
          for example.who are the people who have genuinely kicked addiction by going there?

          some of the crap those characters peddle made me laugh,like “the aim of the therapist is to make friends with people”
          after first getting them to pay a lot of money,work for their organisation and accepted the authoritarian power strusture where the “friend” permanently has the upper hand.
          how about ,,er..being friendly?….doh!

          lokesh,you say:”if you find yourself in humaniversity,it should awaken you to the fact you really do have problems”
          thats about right…

          • frank says:

            and do you remember osho`s advice to veeresh given on the ranch about how to get people off drugs?
            thats worth a read.
            “dont bother to get people to stop taking drugs,just get them to meditate and the drugs will drop”type of stuff,with veeresh nodding and saying “wow”every so often.
            ridiculous.

            pair of wasters working to get people off the gear!
            bonkers!

          • Lokesh says:

            I’d say more but I have to nip out for a packet of fags.

          • bodhi vartan says:

            frank says:
            the problem with the humaniversity “therapy”is that it doesnt work!
            as a self-proclaimed “rehab”,reg with dutch govt…as i saw it, more participants came out with worse habits than they went in with!

            Traditional rehab is for rich people to take a break from their addiction, clean-up as much as poss, and then get back to their habit with new vigour and fresh-ish biology.

            Average pocket ppl cannot afford the above. The way I understand it, Humaniversity therapy hopefully shows people with a problem, how to manage their problem, instead of their problem managing them.

            Way back, me and a friend put a sannyasin house together which was hijacked by the Humaniversity. I didn’t mind at the time because they looked like they had some structure and according to Osho, Veeresh was genuine. That lasted a couple of years for me and some time later I also spend a couple of years in a different Humaniversity house. I had no idea what it was about … all I knew was that it was entertaining and you really had to be headstrong. I met some amazing people but there were a lot of nutters too (about 50% nutters). I think Osho knew as much about what Veeresh was doing as he knew about what Sheela was doing. In a way what Lokesh is saying that “if you find yourself in humaniversity, it should awaken you to the fact you really do have problems” is true … but if you do have a problem, then the humaniversity is as good a place as any to look at your problem.

            In the link below there are some fascinating insights into that kind of approach in therapy, especially as it regards “solipsism” AND the later history of the subject. It’s not Osho-friendly so I hope it gets past the sensors. It gets more interesting from half way down. Even Veeresh gets a mention.
            http://www.astraeasweb.net/politics/crossman.html

  12. eckhart says:

    OK ….cool .. now listen up all buoys.. dont hide yrself behind complex statements and play of words. crap bla bla bla … name atleast 25 people from anywhere around the world and anytime in last 5000 years ….u think have truely unconditioned mind and have helped society. dont try to escape with crap bla bla bla of yr foolish egoistic mind.
    Its very easy to make things complex , any fool can do it.
    - Richard Branson

  13. shantam prem says:

    I would be glad to know from Generation Experienced(GE) about the difference between swingers clubs, orgies and Tantra groups at humanversity or else where? Liberal west has done a remarkable job to create recreational business out of basic instincts.
    I am sure, generation experienced of Europian sannyasins must have learnt a lot from the exclusive paid services.
    Only pity is that GE is not transferring the light further. No master, no devotion, no organsiation, no sex as meditation; just reading inspirational books while sitting on the loo!

    Consumers have not become producers or distributors.

    • satyadeva says:

      Sounds rather like a ready-made career opportunity for a middle-aged man such as yourself, Shantam…

      After all, are you not a fully paid-up member of GE yourself?!

      Top business people don’t hang around waiting for others to exploit their own ideas, they get right on with it. So…get ‘on the job’, Shantam, ok?!

    • Lokesh says:

      Shantam, time to visit the local hooker. You must have hair on the palms of your hands by now.

  14. shantam prem says:

    satyadeva, thanks for encourging me to create a job.
    Problem is the sector where i have experience, i am not ready to bring breakthrough. When i judge me critically, the way i do with others involved in the trade of “sex to satori” work, i lack the required fire to create my market space, and also an inner question comes, for what!

  15. prem martyn says:

    I blame all of this on Parmartha.. he obviously, behind his Guardian editor facade of all things sannyas, is just egging on his team mates from the stands by unfurling provocative banners at half time, and flicking finger signs to the ref….

    or whatever cricketers do when it’s the end of the over….

    if only i had realised his jammy ruse years ago when he first asked if i would play for the first eleven team…..

    here are secret photos of Paramartha’s team getting ready for White trouser and Jumper Brotherhood…

    http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS4kkejhg5j0YwbD6acjyqqONTZ0MhXP1PQXTbjTuUS-k50bQm_bA

    and a rare photograph of Parmartha’s guru in full action….

    http://cricketique.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/cricket-whites-wg.jpg

  16. prem martyn says:

    Shantam why did Osho appoint types like Teertha, Veeresh, Sheela, Vidya, Deeksha,Poonam, Vismaya, and all their followers on , with apparent libertarian language, yet with desperately psychotic levels of authoritarianism…….. and left you shantam licking the dead man’s arse ?..
    was it because he was a spiritually realized type of the lord of joyfulness or is it because we were credulous male master cocksuckers without any balls.

    love and deep meditation of celebration…

    • prem martyn says:

      It’s just sometimes when you can’t drill a hole you have to use a hammer to bang the bloody thing through….

      • Preetam says:

        For what reason you want drill a hole into existence? Unsatisfied with life perhaps, those hammers made out of blood. It is maybe an explanation of how rational Ego appears, if one still behaves like a gatherer or hunter.

        • Preetam says:

          Prem martyn, perhaps you dont’t know yet and you are a masked communist or socialist? You sounding like “Hammer and Sickle” with a lot of pressure and blood. According to whose authoritarianism will?

          • prem martyn says:

            preetamm
            ….according to those the blessedly disguised lovers of osho who would leave you gasping for oxygen if they could get away with convincing you it was part of his device, for their benefit and your self sabotage……

            anyway i have always preferred kropotkin and bakunin to lenin and marx..preetam you must be from those parts of the old soviet union…. i guessed you were….ps the veggy communal dukhobors of russia were fun too…or my favourite the albigensian vegetarian cathar heretics… try googling them…

    • bodhi vartan says:

      prem martyn says:
      > why did Osho appoint cunts like …

      Because he liked controversy. Also do not doubt the tremendous ability of some the ppl on your list to playact, something that Shantam can clearly not do.

      • prem martyn says:

        vartan , you have just stumped shantam…clean bowled… there’s a ripple of applause from the pavilion…

        some people have accused me of throwing googlies in the shape of lbw’s.. laughter before worshipping…. but thats a shameless blaggardly……wait a minute Parmartha is coming on rubbing a brand new ball..he wants us to carry on batting… he’s enjoying the match… oh very well then….

  17. shantam prem says:

    Martyn, What Osho did was all fine. Same is with the names you have mentioned. Imperfect people like everyone else, perfect also like others in their unique way.
    Is it not possible that you yourself was a kindergarten pupil who went accidently in the adult book store.
    The shock of this is quite obvious.
    PS-here is my youtube recording.
    Distribute the link further. i know you are good in it.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwJfrkO9ytY

  18. prem martyn says:

    Friends,
    should i ever disappear from the hallowed halls of ribald exchange here ..or finally stumped by the great wicket keeper in the sky…then beso kind and as one in remembering me as a Brian…or perhaps even a Borat …of the rude awakenings….

    ‘how shall we fuck off , oh master ? ‘
    ‘ I don’t caaaare… just fucccck offfff..’


    The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

  19. shantam prem says:

    Martyn, when i complain about resort management it is about policy matters, i don´t put them down personally. Read your own post above, sounds like cry of an abused woman.

    • prem martyn says:

      Shantam….
      and I thought we’d achieved some sort of a breakthrough for you .. oh well

      anyway shantam if you do want to abuse anyone personally… just book a class with one of Veeresh’s ‘learn to love osho through interpersonal abuse trainings’… you seem to have missed out on some of the high points of osho’s hammer on the rock spiritual quickening processes…….where do you think I learnt my skills…? certainly not on the cricket pitch.. english people are sportsman-like and polite… not like osho therapy group leaders….
      in olde england we used to have pitbulls for that sort of thing… then in the eighties and 90′s they were calling it osho growth.. funny how times change…..

      lala osho ….minus the rude bits la la la osho la la minus the rude bits when you are an Indian… no therapy for them , because they didn’t need it… or would go nuts.. lla la la osho osho..
      like the japaness guy who went apeshit in my therapy group in Pune when someone called him a motherfucker…la la la oshoo beloved master la laa
      ooohhhh you should meet some dentists shantam.. they even insult you as you are critically ill and destined to die…i heard of a jewish sannyas one once.. who.. oh never mind….

      keep singing…..i love the resort management but not their policies you could’ve fooled me…. la la la osho…

      • prem martyn says:

        ps .. An apology for any possible confusion over my writing piece above….

        Shantam my apologies for my poor narrative prose which collided the conversational ‘you’ with what i meant as a generic ‘one’ .. in the corrected example ; ‘ they(he) insult even the critically ill’..
        i did not intend or imply anyone here on sn in that part of my narrative.

        cheers
        m

    • bodhi vartan says:

      shantam prem says:
      > when i complain about resort management it is about policy matters, i don´t put them down personally.

      On this planet nobody, but nobody, ever changes their mind no matter how much you argue with them. Basically you have to wait until they die and then new ppl come in, with new minds, and that is how the world progresses. Sometimes the new ppl can be worse than the old so don’t hold your breath. If you feel the Resort are doing it wrong, go and do your thing (how it should be done) and prove them wrong.

  20. shantam prem says:

    Frank, the suggested video is not going to happen in this life. I don´t have enough money to be sugardaddy, and too old to get work in the xxx industry for getting multiply jiggy with the heidi klum and kate winslet lookalikes..
    Thanks God, in life i know how it feels like to be with heidi klum(1999-2000) and kate winslet(2000-2012…..) lookalikes, and both these are strictly private.

  21. shantam prem says:

    After reading about 4 inches from supposidly 9 inches guy, i think i can deduct why Indians have the longing for Nirvana instead of heaven.
    Indians can feel useless/meaningless/purposeless before starving heavenly Nymphos.
    So i think when new generation of 9 inchers will bow down before future Indian gurus, they will pray for reduction. Reduction of long thick ego to soft mellow fatherly ego.
    Just like Punja ji!

    • Lokesh says:

      Gandhooji says size does not matter. What’s important is to remain rooted in the ‘I woz’.

    • bodhi vartan says:

      shantam prem says:
      Indians can feel useless/meaningless/purposeless before starving heavenly Nymphos.

      It’s because they are too much Buddha and not enough Zorba. All that Zorba needs is an erection.

  22. prem martyn says:

    I have received many answers to the question of wolf in sheeps clothing re libertarian V authoritarian mis matches in the sannyas empire..

    alternatives to what Vartan confirms by eye witness account ,that many were play-acting have ranged from….

    some were hoping for a role in…Patton Lust for Glory….( the comedy version and blooper outtakes)

    three Lao Tsu front rowers were actually sleep-authoritarians who performed the routines in their sleep, and the libertarian ones in our dreams.

    two were doing it for a bet with their girlfriends in another group, (silly billies)

    16 champion nitwit order givers were only doing it part-time until they found out they should have been surrendering instead.

    9 reluctant authoritarians who shouted only sometimes, were later found cowering in a rickshaw claiming that they were only obeying orders.

    7 were practising to set up their own businesses as consultants to right wing spiritual parties , that lasted all night.

    4 had walked in to a libertarian discussion event next door and left early before the fighting amongst the various utopians broke out.

    1 was from Israel and thought that being nice was a sign of weakness

    3 were libertarians who hadn’t read the guidelines, and decided to make it up as they went along using old recordings of Der Gottadamerung found at the British and Colonial Tea Rooms hand-cranked parlophone, opposite the Pune Post Office.

    19 authoritarians were on loan from the cushion-dust-thumping-testing facility near the old sari market.

    2 had only come in to check on the kleenex supplies

    and the rest were meditating and thought they were just projecting their authoritarianism onto libertarians and obeyed their germanic inner voices, dutifully, and have since apologised, I’m sure, no really… didn’t they…?

    oh and ….1 was a klingon.

  23. prem martyn says:

    latest sn world visitor map updated for finding how long you have left to live…….and if a lawnmower will be involved
    http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/wwfuture/original/images/live/p0/0s/jr/p00sjrzb.jpg

  24. eckhart says:

    Praise Or criticize … both are same. one thing is confirm that here pe pole s are obsessed with OSHO resort and old buoy. … Jai J.Krishnamurty , Jai Old Buoy and endless list …. but where is GandhooLokkaa !!!! LOL!!!

  25. eckhart says:

    Lokesh ….. billy connolly videos are amazing. pls give some more links so that i give hard lessons to fanatic fuckers in our society. and where can i find written script of video so that i can post on my profile for fanatic crooks… LOVE.

  26. shantam prem says:

    The moment it becomes a collective thought that my master/Massiah/Prophet/Guru/Spiritual mentor is EVERYWHERE. It shows only one thing…that person is no more here in the middle of the action on the earth.
    Everywhere is Nowhere….

    PS-This day on 19th january, Osho said goodbye to His people and foes and its problems and possibilites. Most probably, He will not apply for renewal of Visa for the planet earth.

    • frank says:

      you`re everywhere and nowhere baby..
      thats where you`re at
      with your guru of gurus
      in his tea cosy hat
      and saying everything is groovy
      when your tyres are flat…
      hiho…..

    • Lokesh says:

      Shantam says, ‘He will not apply for renewal of Visa for the planet earth.’ This implies that there is a choice in the matter. There is not. Such ideas stem from the mumbo.jumbo people have been force fed down through the ages. Individual personality does not survive the death process. How could it? Mind and body are formed in this world and one day will return to the earth where they came from. Yes, something survives death, something impersonal. What takes rebirth are desire seeds. It is very convenient for the mind body ego complex to make up fairy tales about changing bodies like changing clothes. Yes, something is attracted to take birth but it is not you. You come after birth. In that sense you only have one go…so better enjoy the ride while it lasts. Meanwhile you can follow the teaching of people such as Osho and merge with that which is never born and never dies, No need to be concerned if Osho actually was that, because it won’t help you if you are not hooked up with it. You are impermanent…a passing cloud.

      • babasvetlana says:

        and where did you come up with that mumbo jumbo?-”This implies there is a choice in the matter. there is not”.. utter rubbish.. did you actually die and find this out to come back and tell us? so big guy where do you come off saying this crap? some “expert” in the afterlife you are!!!

        • satyadeva says:

          Lokesh’s explanation has ‘the ring of truth’ for me. Reminds me of Barry Long.

          • frank says:

            how`s that? is lokesh preaching how to have long tantric sex and then having quickies with his audience in the back-room afterwards?
            nice one…..
            …it shows that us oldies are always still in with a chance of pulling some fresh meat even if we`ve gone wrinkly and lost the use of a few non-essential body parts….an important life-lesson,for sure..
            all you need is a convincing-sounding theory of the universe,delivered like you know what you`re talking about,and hey presto…rings a bell…..wham bam thankyou man..
            ok,you get a few braindead ever-faithful satsang junkie blokes thinking they`re your disciples and mumbling about the ring of truth and so on,
            (the closest they`ll ever get to a ring of truth is the one at the bottom of their spine)….
            but at least they keep the numbers up and the readies flowing from new punters,so you`ll never have to work again….

            • satyadeva says:

              No, your knee-jerk cynicism is well off-topic, frank.

              Clearly, you’re another who could do with a liberal dose of Ghandoo….

              • frank says:

                not so fast….
                ghandoo has declared me as his successor.
                he specifically gave me the following instructions on how to carry on his work.
                he mapped out his vision with precision just shortly before he fell into a drugaddled coma brought on by one quicky darshan with one satsang slapper too many…

                from now on…
                no photos of ghandoo without his toupee are to be published.
                all reciepts for purchases of vaseline and quaaludes from quick-e-mart must be destroyed….
                disciples speaking of ghandoos sex life and druglife will be excommunicated.
                any biography of ghandoo must not be published,because the masses are not ready to understand how an enlightened being`s enlightenment could stop just south of his belt…..
                thats a mystery that only mystery school members can handle….
                and there`s no mystery about the fact that quite a few of them did handle that member.i can assure you….

                • babasvetlana says:

                  hey frank.. looks like Gandjhoo-goosie-goo also declared me his spokes person.. so we’re goin to have to fight it out Wild West style— pistols at dawn?(holy) water pistols that is.

            • bodhi vartan says:

              frank says:
              > all you need is a convincing-sounding theory of the universe,delivered like you know what you`re talking about,and hey presto…rings a bell…..wham bam thank you man..

              Time as such, does not exist. What we perceive as past, present and future, all co-exist simultaneously, and our perception of linearity, is how our physical medium (the meat) interprets its position and direction. Time is a measurement of movement. We perceive the movement as forward (into the future) when in fact the movement is backward, as if you are sitting in a car looking out through the back window so that you will never know what is behind you.

              In the same way that time is what the clock hands indicate rather than any absolute value … movement (or, its perception of it) is how the physical medium chooses to identify itself and its position …

              How am I doing frank, any chance of getting laid soon?

              • frank says:

                VT. its worth a try.
                what have you got to lose?
                and,
                “time,as such,does not exist etc…”
                does sound like it could well come in handy as a rationalisation to keep your spiritual ego and kudos intact after a 30 second lubed-up quickie with a disciple…..

  27. babasvetlana says:

    like you have asked others- “what is re-incarnation? “how do you know”? What other “planes of existence is there beside this one”? You need to be more careful about the bullshit you post lokesh. it comes back to be thrown on your face.

  28. babasvetlana says:

    i thought lokesh was a big fan of the “Tibetan Book of The Dead”. he must have not read it.. re-read it pal, and notice the guy specifically gives instructions on how to reincarnate oneself into the body of one’s choice, and the parents of one’s choice..

    • satyadeva says:

      I would think that this depends upon what one defines as “oneself”. Any notion that the thinking, dreaming, emotionalising ‘self’ is substantial enough to move from body to body is rather laughably absurd, isn’t it?

      And I hardly think The Tibetan Book of the Dead was produced with the, er, ‘layman’ in mind, but rather for pretty advanced adepts, who had more than a mere inkling of ‘identity’ beyond the superficial and transitory.

      • frank says:

        i`m not a re-incarnation man myself,and i`ve cancelled my subscription to the resurection,but existence itself can also be seen as “laughably absurd”,in fact its hard not to.

        and i think the distinction between “laymen” and “adepts”is a bit dated these days.
        most of the adepts i`ve come across have been up for a lay..

      • babasvetlana says:

        so i take it S.D. you never had any real “experiences” from doing meditations, or “visions”, or “astral projections”. Too bad, if you had you’d know immediately what “oneself” is. To be brief- the life energies that are released when one leaves the body, and the type of energies depends on your state of awareness, or as i call it “life radiance”. If you were a mass murder or a very hateful person at the moment of death, your “life radiant” energy would be much like a viscous animal, if you were a very loving person or a meditative person, your energy would be more “angelic”, or “buddha”-like…it’s a focused collection of physical /mental/astral energies…. similar to auras that we have surrounding us during our time on this earth.. that’s the best i can do… if you’re curious go find out for yourself– self-discovery, pally. The Tibetan Book of the Dead was made for most Tibetans, including regular schmucks, whether a person got anything from it was indeed up to themselves and their curiosity and intelligence level. My opinion of it and i’ve stated it here several times, is that it was made so people would keep coming back as human beings, not advancing to a so-called higher spiritual plane in the next life, again, it’s up to each individual after careful reading to notice this, so the lama who wrote it, was more interested in preserving his so-called “higher” place in existence, and not helping the general human population in shedding our “animal” energies…kind of like “this is my turf, go somewhere else. So, i kind of frown on those moron tibetan buddhists, Dalai Lama included.. they’re self centered and selfish and use “Freedom for Tibet” as a front so they can keep their dumb jobs as monks and lamas. Class dismissed.. for the year!!

        • satyadeva says:

          Most impressive, babasv…Clearly, you have charted realms that I’ve only heard or read about…

          How come though, you’re so often so bloody angry?

  29. prem martyn says:

    frank, everyone is in adept these days…. i blame it on giving irresponsible spiritual kidologies too much easy credit…

  30. shantam prem says:

    Tibetan Book of The Dead”, the guy specifically gives instructions on how to reincarnate oneself into the body of one’s choice, and the parents of one’s choice..

    Most of us books are being read by the senstive western souls..If we go with the maxim, “Grass is greener on the other side of the fence, Tibetan Budduism will have sharp intelligent arrivals..who have learnt much being Christians in their past life..
    As far as Tibetans are concerned..they can learn how to be born in UK, Canada, USA. On a deeper level, their soul may be craving for latest electronic gadgets!

    • bodhi vartan says:

      shantam prem says:
      Tibetan Book of The Dead”, the guy specifically gives instructions on how to reincarnate oneself into the body of one’s choice, and the parents of one’s choice..

      A good exercise is to meditate upon your current incarnation and choice of parents as a conscious decision that was made by you in your previous incarnation …

      Ducking!!!

  31. shantam prem says:

    One small paragraph from a newsreport made me thought about our own world.
    What is true for Congress party, fits with our Alma mater too.
    Masters like Osho have all the right to get all the devotion..all yes osho yes…but not the functionaries…

    Anyone hoping to transform the Congress Party must necessarily be capable of breaking from its toxic tradition of authoritarianism and sycophancy, of making a cool-headed assessment of the weaknesses of its past leadership.

  32. Parmartha says:

    The original question itself is dumb.
    Osho was not a seminar leader, or someone like Bertrand Russell orchestrating different opinions, and agreeing or disagreeing like 20 year old students talking through the night, thinking they are getting closer to some “truth” through argument. An okay activity for those of a certain age, etc, but a long way short of mystic maturity.
    He was a mystic. He used words simply to intice to something much greater and beyond ordinary imagination – and beyond the ordinary world of human mind…. just a taste of what he was about when sitting with him was enough to take this question away for ever.

  33. prem martyn says:

    is it ok with who ?

    i asked the woman at the launderette the other day… it went something like this

    Me : Excusez moi

    Launderette Lady : Oui

    Avez vous le ok pour le desagreable de Osh avec la plume de ma tante pour le beard ? Merci ?

    LL: Quoi ?

    Je avoir beaucoup de le question …oui ou non est OK?? Sprechen sie bitte und machen sie schnelle.. ja er oui ?

    LL : Si vous ne etre careful je appel la police

    Alors je take that comme une Non ! Merci.

    LL: (avec telephone) Bonsoir monsieur Constable, ici la launderette …je avoir un autre Osho nutter en la grand confusion, arrivez avec velocite toute suite.

    and so we say au revoir to la question et le puzzle de le advanced reader sur le News de Sannyase. Merci.

  34. Nirvan says:

    To agree or disagree is to be caught up in the duality of mind. In case this is new information for you, sannyas is all about THE ENERGY. The words are only to destroy your attachment to your mindset. That said, I’ve always loved listening to Osho.