In a recent interview Swami Arun of Nepal replied in a distinctive way on the question of Initiation. How do SN readers respond?
When I joined Osho in March 1969 there was no sannyas at that time but we were fully aware that Acharya Rajneesh is our master and we were a bunch of 100-200 who had already surrendered to him in our hearts . Osho had not given a formal initiation to anybody till then .He started initiating people only in 1970. In 1971 Osho sent me a letter and invited me to Mt. Abu to come and take sannyas and he also said that he had already decided for my new name. But I was only a student of engineering and didn’t have the money or time to go.
So in 1972 when I was in my final year of engineering, I went to Bombay to take sannyas. Osho said to me, “You are in your last year of studies and if you take sannyas, I have a doubt that you will not complete your studies.” And he was right. So he told me to first go and complete my studies and he also asked me to build a house for my parents on the empty plot of land that I owned in Kathmandu. He knew everything about my family. So I did as he said and you would be surprised to know that as soon as we finished the house warming party or Griha Prabesh Puja, the very next morning I escaped to Pune and took sannyas from Osho. I had already surrendered to Osho in 1969 and I used to call him Bhagwan even before people had started calling him with this name. And I used to write him letters and Osho used to reply my queries. So the master-disciple relationship was already there but initiation still has its own value. This I realized after taking initiation.
Before being initiated, I had been trying to meditate in my college and at home but my meditation was
never deep and I always had problems in going into silence. But after initiation it became very easy. At the time of initiation itself I had my first Satori. I went into no-mind the very moment Osho touched my third eye and gave me the mala and my new name. The moment Osho touched me, I screamed so loudly that everybody in the car porch where the sannyas was happening got disturbed. There was no Chuang tzu auditorium then and we were only 13-15 people in the small car porch and Osho was speaking without a microphone. I was more of a reserved person before so when he touched me and gave me the mala it felt like a dam had been broken and the river wanted to flood so I kept on crying.
I couldn’t control the upsurge of emotions and disturbed the whole interview so people wanted to take me out. But Osho was kind enough to stop them and he said, “Let him let go.” And when Osho was initiating I could see that the whole atmosphere changing. I saw that everything had turned into orange including Osho’s white robe and his chair. The tile floor, the walls, the trees in the ashram garden, the casual clothes of non-sannyasins, I saw that everything had turned into orange. I rubbed my eyes and I thought I was hypnotized and tried to wake out of it. I don’t know what had happened but everything had changed into a beautiful psychedelic color of orange. Later on I read in books that when people take LSD they have such psychedelic experiences but to me it happened with his touch! And this lasted for half an hour. I could see the radiating beauty and grace of Osho and so many other things happened which cannot be explained in words.
It was an experience of the heart and it seemed to me as if I knew Bhagwan from many lives, it was a reunion. The whole incident lasted for an hour after which the initiation was over and we came to our room. And I was in such ecstasy and joy that I had never experienced in my life. I was staying at the Som ji state building where there was a high ceiling hall. And suddenly I saw Osho’s head appear in one corner of the ceiling and I started crying out of joy. People could not understand what was happening. The whole night I had experiences and I felt like a feather. It felt like I was flying high and then again coming down. Even though I couldn’t sleep even for a minute, I was still in total ecstasy, in divine madness. The next morning I realized that I was a different person.
That’s why I insist so much for mala and sannyas to my new friends. It is one thing to read Osho or to meditate. People say to me I am already reading Osho and doing his meditations, what is the need to take sannyas. But I know the difference. Without initiation your meditation cannot reach that height, you cannot surrender your ego. And unless you surrender your ego you cannot go into the depths of no-mind. So initiation is a must.
It was a ten days camp and after ten days my friends wanted to return so they went for a leaving darshan. I did not want to return and I stayed for another four months but still I also went with them. My initiation was on 11th October and the leaving darshan was on the 20th and that day I was so much in bliss that the moment they opened the Lao tzu gate I rushed to sit near Bhagwan .We had been asked to walk with gentle pace but I started running uncontrollably and Bhagwan was having a private talk with the famous film director Vijay Anand and his girlfriend, who had been allowed five minutes earlier than us. So when Mukta saw me running towards Osho she wanted to prevent me from disturbing the conversation but Osho saw it and stopped Mukta. Osho invited me to sit close to his feet and I sat near him. At that interview I touched his feet several times and he blessed me several times. I was in so much bliss and gratitude that there was nothing to say. Osho looked at me and chuckled, “hmmm so you are in ecstasy?”
So that was my experience after sannyas and for ten days I was in a different world. I tried to
force myself to remember where I had come from, my parents, my job, but my mind was not
ready to accept that I had any past connection. I was totally in the state of here and now. I had
limited money for ten days but I stayed for four months without a penny. I was half mad and
everybody thought that I would not be able to return to the world. My parents had lost hope and
thought that I would become a vegetable. I was so much in bliss and happiness that even I had
lost hope that I would be able to return to my job and earn my bread.
During the four months in Pune, I had to go through many physical hardships. I had to use
municipal latrines and sleep under thatched roofs with several other people. Everything around me was uncomfortable but I was in the most comfortable state. I was so much joyful then that afterwards for several years I was ready to pay any price to get back the same joy.
But now since last few years I feel the same joy and bliss and I don’t miss Osho anymore. Today there was sannyas taking in the meditation hall and you saw how ecstatic and mad people were. People can still attain to such ecstacy. We are reliving Osho. Today he is closer than the closest person to my heart and I don’t miss him.
As far as Nepal or India is concerned, Osho sannyas initiation has still some meaning, some buyers. For rest of the world, it is like those early Nokia mobiles, not available any more even in junk shops.
In the telecom world one can understand, new products with new features are always in the pipeline. I am sure, in few years when husband will write an sms to his wife, ” Good night, darling. many, many kisses”
Wife will feel the message and will reply back,” Again you have not used mouth freshener.”
But Osho sannyas…it has not been replaced by something equally powerful. There is vacuum in the air….
But Shantam, come to Tapoban once or ask Alok John or Chetana about their experience during sannyas celebrations with Swami Arun, you will know tht something as powerful as Osho sannyas still exists adn that is osho’s sannyas itself.
Many will no doubt find Arun’s words to be inspirational. I do not. They show me where the man is stuck and I suspect this has more than a little to do with the fact that he is, in one way or another, working on being recognized as a channel for Osho’s work or some such conceptual idea.
Most of his experiences sound to me like projections made by a so-called spiritual mind. Then we have all the usual surrendering the ego trip. Ho-hum. Then it is all encapsulated in him being closer than the closest person to his heart and yet he doesn’t miss him, (?) which I suppose fulfils the ultimate criteria in being a good sannyasin or some such mumbo-jumbo. Oh well, each to his own. If Arun came to my local village to give satsang, or whatever it is he calls what it is he is doing, I might pop in and say hi and check him out for curiosity’s sake. As it is I’m not particularly attracted to people like him, because I don’t see that there is very much to be learned in their company, except perhaps that I don’t require what it is they have to offer, in whatever packaging they wrap it up in.
He sounds sincere.
Sincerity is good.
Hey, Lokesh, I think you should “pop in and say hi and check him out for curiosity’s sake.” But try to leave your conceptual, intelligent, know-everything mind at the door just to get into ecsctasy quicker! and btw, he does not give satsang of his own, his satsang is with/about Osho.
Earlier, you were giving examples of three sannyains and to me they all sounded so boring. Arun is by far a much more mind-blowing character and history maker.
I had no doubt Lokesh will be unimpressed/uninspired! Becasue his trip here to impress others and he might think he is doing a good job.
In my experience, Arun sw is absolutely right! After sannyas my meditation changed completely overnight and sannyas was the strongest and most important event of my whole life!
I will be eternally grateful for Arun’s efforts to travel so much and so far to meet people like me who love Osho and speak the same language. If you meet people who had the privilege to stay in Tapoban for a few months, you will see their ecstasy pouring from their eyes and their smiles.
Lokesh, I am afraid Chetna is correct.
So u met pushpita huh….
“As it is I’m not particularly attracted to people like him, because I don’t see that there is very much to be learned in their company, except perhaps that I don’t require what it is they have to offer, in whatever packaging the wrap it up in.” – Great Lokesha.
Sir, if you don´t eat Nutella, does it mean company should stop production?
If you are in the need to visit local GP, does it mean doctor should close the practice and rent it to some Disco for Seniors?!
Why to judge always from the perception of one´s own needs. why to judge someone´s height accordance to one´s own suit?
What Arun is doing in his immediate surroundings is worth appreciating. Nepal is not even India as far as economics and political pride of citizens is concerned, to stand close to Western values it may take still few hundred years. In a very feudal society, Arun´s inspirations and fatherly touch has created much-needed self-esteem and given oositive touch to thousands.
On my facebook blog, i see quite often, when a Nepali young sannyasin writes some comment, there is always a feeling of fresh breath, some raw confidence. These people have more than printed books and fitness gym kind of meditation techniques..
Personal touch of someone always adds some juice into the knowledge-filled brain cells.
Like I said before…
It’s really a case of the original series Star Trekkies versus “Star Trek, the new generation…”
Captain Arun does seem to be going baldly where quite a lot of bald guys have been before, and is a tad conservative….and oldtimers will always say that you can’t touch the original captain with his legendary chutzpah, sitting in cockpit blasting into space at warp factor 9 and beyond, not to mention takin it to the bridge with Miss Uhuru….
But what to do?
You can’t turn back time to Stardate Log 1976
People need to be enlightentertained.
And it’s fundamental to freedom and democracy that whether it’s amma, papa, gaga or jiji…
the customer is always right….
I have also said it before…
My personal opinion is that it is/was/will be/is /a happy day
when meditation becomes freed of the baggage of pre-modern Asiatic cultures.
Frank:
“My personal opinion is that it is/was/will be/is /a happy day
when meditation becomes freed of the baggage of pre-modern Asiatic cultures”.
My sediments entirely, frank. Amen.
I, in hindsight, needed that mixture of traditional and modern that was sannyas at the end of the seventies. Too much one way or the other, and I would not still be in a relationship with Osho.
Doesn’t seem too much of a leap that there are people now, who need to come at sannyas from a more traditional place, so to condemn them, Arun, for being there, seems to me too conservative.
Osho sannyas is plurality, pluralism, although not recognised as such by many, it seems to me; not fundamentalist and one-pointed, as the negatives see things.
“…in hindsight, needed that mixture of traditional and modern that was sannyas at the end of the seventies. Too much one way or the other, and I would not still be in a relationship with Osho.”
After all, the new (whatever it is) to grow needs to have his roots into the old……..to jump into the unknown you need to push your feet on some ground………from the rotten old stuff a new flower find his nourishment….could be like that.
Nicely put. Yes. Absolutely.
Osho starts with us where we are, not where we might be, wish to be.
We like ‘nice’ explanations, don’t we?
But the ugly truth is Osho was indulging the kids with candy, like a bird is snared with seed.
Didn’t Mommy tell you not to take sweets from strangers?
Why do you say “ugly truth”, Tehuti?
Do you speak from personal experience or hearsay?
Yes, my mum did tell me not to accept sweets from strangers.
I remember a few old ladies once, offering me some on a seaside pier when I was about five.
They triggered appalling fantasies in my innocent mind and I imagined that behind their false and crooked smiles they were plotting to drug me with the sweets, then lure me away, hack me to pieces and throw me in the sea.
But they were liquorice allsorts and I had a sweet tooth.
I`m still here.
Frank expostulated.
I have also said it before…
My personal opinion is that it is/was/will be/is /a happy day when meditation becomes freed of the baggage of pre-modern Asiatic cultures.
Soundest insight ever.
Frank, SD, Arpana,
My personal opinion is that it is/was/will be/is a happy day when post-modern European cultures just forget all about meditation/enlightenment.
A banishing ritual must be performed, to get rid of those primitive/pre-modern/primeval urges for enlightenment. No such thing.
A lot of mubo jumbo and tom toms; fit for the jungle only.
Again I ask, tehuti, are your views based on experience or on others’ reports?
SD, personal experience .
I also believe the Sun revolves around the Earth. Personal experience. Don’t believe the hype that it’s the other way round.
Then the ones who declare their ‘realisations’ etc. are lying or utterly deluded?
Apart from Osho’s sannyas – I take it you’ve ‘been through’ that? Have you? – which other teachings have you followed? Anyone from the west, for example?
‘Then the ones who declare their ‘realisations’ etc. are lying or utterly deluded?’
Hahaha..It’s an old trilemma; Liar, Lunatic or Lord ?
And Osho was ?
It’s an old test.
And the second question?
But you don’t anwser the question straight, you simply take refuge in a knowing ‘laugh’.
A very tricky, clever-clever response – which veils any clear answer. Good example of the ‘western mind’!
My guess is you’ve ‘dabbled’ a bit here and there, read a bit, unearthed a few charlatans, discussed how deluded everyone involved in such matters is with fellow sceptics, found a few obvious (in your terms) ‘spiritual failures’…And now feel fully qualified to relax and dismiss it all as total garbage.
Rather like a certain type of investigative journalist.
au contaire.
I have unearthed a few gems, but it entailed ‘going through’ a lot of rubble.
Oh, ok. So it’s Osho’s sannyas you’re attacking.
I take it your view is Osho was a liar and/or a lunatic then, ie definitely not “Lord”?!
Funnily enough, many here might well agree with the liar/lunatic label(s), at least to some degree. But there’s a far wider, infinitely deeper perspective to Osho than those terms might seem to indicate.
Surely though, no master is going to suit everyone – esp when already dead – and if you’ve found “a few gems” you can count yourself very fortunate.
Any chance of giving a few names, tehuti?
“My personal opinion is that it is/was/will be/is /a happy day
when meditation becomes freed of the baggage of pre-modern Asiatic cultures……” – Swami Frank Bharti
I wonder why people like him don´t plead before the Queen to share some funds for reaserch and creating a prototype to make meditation free from the Asiatic crap!
The evolved citizens can even convince her to appoint son and daughter-in-law of Prince Charles to create Original British version of ” Highways of Love”
As I see, during last 5 years, trend of going into ultra-modern fitness clubs is getting momentum in Germany. Every time I go to my favourite, “Ruekgrat”, I ask me, why people should visit Pune, when all the possibilities are available in middle of the town?
Everything what Soso Resort in Pune boasts about is available…other than one vital fact, ” Emotional Integration” with something bigger, some Ah! factor, some deeper relating with the like-minded souls.
But that is not the need of the present day West. Why one should be crushed in a fruit pulp when it fits with the nature to be fried as chips, every piece unique, yet like every other..?
When East is like Tomatoes, West will surely be Potato!
Yes, Shantam, I am right now having a cup of tea with my old friend the Queen. She is really excited about
my plan to remove the Asiatic crap from your chuddies.
She has offered me the Kohinoor Diamond if it comes off, so to speak.
It’s a massive job, for sure.
Don’t worry, we ruled the world once, and we have our man, General Amrito Dyer safely installed in Pune, keeping your ludicrous religious feelings in a constant state of divide and rule (works every time ).
So I`m sure we can manage your chuddies.
I have suggested that we use Prince Charles` ears as shovels.
That should do it.
Satyadeva, when you say Amen with your entire sentiments to endorse the Frank idea, will it not be beautiful to make yourself free first from modern Asiatic influence?
I mean, instead of Mother Ms. Meera (typical South Indian frau living in Germany), you can tell us about your reverence for some typical home- grown, highly meditator Femme Fatale!
Ah, my dear Shantam, pure, impersonal love and silence are not the sole preserve of either East or West.
And note that Frank was citing “the baggage”, not the essence.
By the way, when are you booked in for darshan with Mother Meera? Let me know, please, as then any dialogue with you concerning her will be worthwhile. At present, let’s face it, you don’t know what you’re talking about, do you?!
You always sound so languid when you put Shantam in his place.
I picture you in top hat and tails, cigarette held louchely in one hand, cane and white gloves in the other, and Shantam, shuffling his feet, with his hands behind his back, head hanging, unable to look you, the toff, in the face.
Hilarious.
Just a sub-personality, Arpana, that’s all!!
How many of us have taken sannyas here, would love to hear some experiences…
Neerav,
He touched my third eye and the top of my head blew clean off.
There was white light everywhere.
It was coming out of my ass, too.
There were rainbows and om signs everywhere.
You should have seen it.
My ego just went “poof”
Jus` like that……
I was totally in the moment.
I`ve been talking about it ever since.
‘Spiritual’ porn-XXX
sounds like he did more than just ‘touch’ your 3rd ‘eye’.
I knew my first wee comment would get me put in the stocks. My time with Osho, in terms of being round him physically, ended in 1981. Somehow I thought I’d see him one more time in the body, but it did not happen. Such is life. I could have travelled to see Osho again but did not and for good reason. I woke up to something, which taught me in no uncertain terms that my time with Osho belonged to the past. I am glad that it happened the way it did, although the awakening was not a pleasant experience, which is often the case when you get woken up to the fact that what was once the fulcrum of your existence is no more.
My original comment was entirely a personal one. I’m quite sure that whatever the man is doing benefits people etc. but for me it bears no relevance to my life whatsoever.
When I read such comments as Chetna’s…’But try to leave your conceptual, intelligent, know-everything mind at the door just to get into ecstasy quicker!’, those type of comments are akin to water on a tough duck’s back to me and strike me as rather twee and belonging to a mindset first put in place in 70′s Pune. It is the same old same old and what people delivering such comments don’t realize is that these are shadows of conceptual ideas they have programmed their minds with and are thus simply a reflection of their own particular conditioning.
The word ecstasy does not really ring a bell for me, although that said I realize that feeling ecstatic is a normal part of my life. It is just that I have been living life in such a way that I no longer notice that it is ecstatic. Once in a while I do become aware of it. For example, the other day I took some friends on a long-distance swim along Ibiza’s magnificent northern coastline. On the return part of the journey one woman called out to me, ‘I feel like I am on drugs’. She couldn’t believe nobody else could hear the fantastic music she was hearing. These are both indications that a person has entered an elevated state of consciousness compared to the everyday. Oh, I thought, this is my daily life out here in the big blue and I am accustomed to it, but when others enter they get blown away. How marvellous, I thought.
Then we have Alok’s patronizing tuppence worth, ‘Lokesh, I am afraid Chetna is correct.’ Which just goes to show those birds of a feather do so much enjoy to flock together, tweet, tweet. Alok, when addressing his royal highness Lokesh you do not seem to realise that you are addressing an eagle. I’m a high flyer, baba, and if you don’t believe it come down to Ibiza and I’ll show you how to live your life on the edge daily, a place where you will see how small and feeble your bodymind complex is, a place where it can be experienced that you really are so small you might as well not exist…mind you, it is very deep waters and no place for beginners, like Arun’s ‘I’m so happy’ dimension, feeling Osho’s presence and all those other tired cliches that don’t really add up to so much if you burn off the dross and get down to the real nuts and bolts of the human situation.(Alok, you really are welcome to contact me and my offer is a sincere one and I extend it to all SN readers and commentators. Please bring your own flippers and fins.) For all you catholic sannyasins out there reading this…if you really do live your life totally I warn you now that a day will arise when you realize all this initiation mumbo jumo is simply an initiation into a different kind of illusion…call it spritual if you like but it is still an illusion. Waking up to this can be a terrible shock, as it was for me. It is a shock to realise that one day you really have to leave your gurus and teachers behind, let go of the compassionate guiding hand and take off on the real part of your journey, which is the flight of the alone to the alone. Others can show you the way but ultimately you must walk it alone until you come to realise there is no path and nobody walking it. Then you are home. I’ll see you there.
“The word ecstasy does not really ring a bell for me, although that said I realize that feeling ecstatic is a normal part of my life. It is just that I have been living life in such a way that I no longer notice that it is ecstatic. Once in a while I do become aware of it”
I feel sorry for this chap- Lokesh, he tries so hard to impress people.
Author, painter, musician, DJ and an ‘extreme’ sport fan…no doubt it’s extreme; to paddle the Ibiza beaches with a bunch of oldies, at his age.
I am willing to bet any amount of money, that Lokesh was for a long time on anti-depressants, probably still is. He’s as authentic as Osho’s ‘diamond’ encrusted watches.
Tehuti, I’m also a gambler, won the long shot poker championship last year, and you would lose a lot betting on your anti-depresent dream, because I’ve never taken an anti depressent in my life. No need to feel sorry for me, because it is you that is the loser.
Lokesh, you’re also a self-confessed liar.
You’re definitely on a lucky streak; first, the missus won the lottery, and now you’ve won the poker championship.
But irrespective of your flaws…and there’s a few…you’re OK-ish…as good as it gets here.
Lokesh, one of your long posts, I have read in a single breath, almost like emptying the cold coffee mug in one go…
Beautifully written…Still…
To make money is one thing, to be a business professor is another thing…
And to be a business professor who is an enterpreneour too, is altogether different feast…
And as you said, at a certain time you were hanging on the delicate thread of life and death in the hospital in middle of Pune and you were saved not because of some Bhagwan´s blessings or hocus pocus Reiki or coloured bottles of Aura Soma….who will not get jolted out from the illusions of saviour wishes..?
After spending seven long years behind an Indian guru during the time, Pune was really filthy, anybody will feel ecstatic rest of his life in Ibiza.
Look at 3rd world immigrants in the west, every day they feel ecstatic compared to the natives, don´t you think their flight is also from alone to alone…?
Look, guys, I think words are words. We can never know whether what Lokesh has beautifully written is his experience. His being is a proof to it, but I may never meet Lokesh in person hence will never find out. Hopefully, he is not just full of words. It is also easy to misjudge Arun by his words, hence I was suggesting to Lokesh to meet him, but with an open heart to see Arun’s heart.
Everyone has an individual path and obviously Lokesh has his own (even though for some reason he thinks His way is THE way). And who said the break of the previous illusion is the last one? Maybe your greatest illusion that you, Lokesh, have left Osho? Maybe he is still secretly holding your hand into those dangerous life experiences? And all those past teachers? And without those Masters who would you be now?
Having met people who didn’t escape the Master and followed the path, they def have something to share. Being in their presence changes you! Love and compassion are overflowing and tangible. And they talk very little, if at all. In fact, they all lead private lives.
Lastly, I think, Lokesh, you would be aware of the ecstasy I am talking about that I could hardly compare to the experience of a friend you have described!
And what’s all that with “I warn you”? – Priest-like language
Chetna, you have a good point, it seems Lokesh doesn’t care for gurus yet he’s trying to portrait himself as one on SN. Lokesh, you don’t look in the mirror before you speak. Arun’s just relaying his personal experiences way back when he first took sannyas. I too had experiences quite similar to Arun’s when I took sannyas, I can’t say it was exactly the same, for just describing it misses the experience. Too bad you’re back stuck in the head, and off on a tangent ridiculing those with whom you disagree, particularly Shantam.
Who let you out of the kindergarden, Babasvetlana? I’m ridiculing you, man, that’s for sure. When it all boils down I am actually quite fond of Shantam. He makes me laugh and that is something I do appreciate. As for your comment, it is completely uninspiring and entirely predictable. My apologies for disturbing your sleep. You can return to La-la-land right about now and dream about your experiences that you had similar to Arun’s, even though they don’t seem to have helped you in any way. PS, I suggest changing the prefix of your name to Bah-bah…you know, like a sheep bleating, because that is how you sound.
About nine years ago I visited Osho Tapoban and met Arun, one of the things that struck me, was he treated me like a contemporary and as far as I could make out Arun sees older sannyasin as his peers. Of course the situation in Tapoban is he has been elevated by those around him to Guru status, although he always claims just to be the postman delivering a message! I guess in Nepal, India and Asia in general the master-disciple thing is so built in to the psyche, it’s not surprising that this has happened. There is light in his eyes but this does not necessarily make him enlightened and I’d be surprised if he would ever claim such.
What’s being asked with this article is, does initiation into sannyas have relevance now? Arun clearly thinks it does. I don’t think I could say what initiation is and what it means but I remember back in the 70′s finding Osho and taking sannyas, it was the beginning of coming out of a long, dark night. Looking back on things, I see that I sought and took refuge in the sangha. I know there’s a lot of talk these days that you don’t need some guy playing guru to be free but I don’t see how things are so different today, there must be a lot of people stumbling around in the dark that won’t necessarily find the way out on their own.
Good post, Dharmen.
Sannyas is flourishing and hasn’t lost its beauty. Here are some recent pics from the commune and some beautiful faces. It’s an open group so anyone can see, I guess.
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.345052295583408.82153.179957355426237&type=1
Chetna, I can’t stand priests of any kind, and therefore have no need to emulate them in any way. My way is THE way…Definitely not for everyone and I would never presume that it was for anyone. Generally I am speaking from my self and of course there are some who might perceive that as preaching but it is not. Unless something is really your own experience it won’t do you any good when push comes to shove…especially off the edge of a cliff.
Yes, being with someone can change you, expand that and say being with everyone can change you. That is because the you that you are referring to is a flux…ever-changing. The thing is, if you can observe that something is being changed then you are not that which is changing so, Chetna, what exactly are you talking about?
Then we have, ‘Maybe your greatest illusion that you, Lokesh, have left Osho?’ Let me get this straight. My greatest illusion is that I exist.
Osho represents for each their insight into what it is all about. Osho for me is a dead friend. He is gone…no longer exists. If you are talking about the flame that ignites the bodymind complex…that which was here always, and need to call that Osho, go right ahead. I have no need to give that which is beyond name and form a name…especially Osho, which sounds to me like a washing powder. I never really dug the name from the first day I heard it. I saw it as Osho having a crack at being a household name…washes whiter than ever before etc…Change that to brainwashes. Listening to some of you lot it certainly sounds like Osho works very well on that level.
One thing I practise on a daily basis is respect for everyone I meet in life…unless they are a total tosser, those I generally ignore…not my line of work.
Above it all, there is nothing I enjoy more than a good laugh with friends. One of the greatest of tools that we have to help navigate life’s sometimes stormy waters is a sense of humour…we do well to hone and develop that tool whenever an oportunity presents itself. One reason I dig Frank’s comments so much. He is very witty, in my eyes. I also enjoy Shantam’s whacky writing too. He’s had me in stitches a few times.
As for ecstasy, they sell that on the streets in these parts. Never touch the stuff these days. Depletes one’s serotonin levels. Gimme the middle way. What goes up always comes down…even if it is a natural high. Steer a steady course…anchors away. Ah, the big blue calls and I surrender to it. As for surrendering one’s ego…who exactly do you think is doing the surrendering? The way of the mind is as infinite as grains of sand on the beach. I walk along a beach most days, so it is not so easy to forget that.
Nothing special about swimming. Fishes ‘do it’.
How’s that living on the edge?
Don’t write an essay, did you learn this bad habit from Osho, to use an endless stream of words for what could easily be said in a sentence or two?
Re swimming on the edge…
Swimming can be pretty edgy, for sure.
I`ve nearly killed myself more than once.
I have always been partial to the swimming in unsuitable water, too.
I swam the length of the marble rocks near Jabalpur a couple of times when I was over that way.
There was a bit of white water in parts, too, so had to watch out not to bang my head on the rocks.
Swimming slightly downhill is a weird one, and I didn’t find out about the crocs till later!
For me, I probably prefer that to jumping up and down with a bunch of sweaty religious ecstasy seekers in a small room, although` I`ve done that, too.
Whatever floats your boat, as they say.
Anyone who pushes his religious trip too much to others arouses suspicion, I would say.
It’s simple psych, really.
Used to swim across the Ganges at Benares, when I was there. Dodged the odd carcass on fullmoon night.
Cows and babies.
Smoke a joint on the other side, being circled by vultures and then back again.
I can still feel that filthy sludge of bog-knows what under my feet as you come into the edge….
What, another great swimmer?
Subconscious imitation of the ‘great’ Bhagwan and his tall tales about jumping into rapids, methinks.
Thelemites like mountain climbing.
And sodomites like it up the ass.
Thelemites?
Now, there`s a bunch of wannabe occult Harry Potter powerless, power-hungry, fantasist patheticos who read a few incomprehensible books on “magick” and think they can get some “power” from tutti-fruity or some other past-it ancient Egyptian god….
The old gods are so past-it.
Frank, you and fellow post-post-post-modern super evolved Caucs should become Scientologists.
Your way, baba, is the shallow way… “I’d rather be deep than macho”– Victor Mature, 1948
Dharmen,you ask…
“Does initiation into sannyas have relevance now?”
“Relevance” cannot float around in such a disembodied way.
it’s like “how long is a piece of string?”
or “Is Lady Gaga relevant?”
Relevance to who or what has to be clarified.
Answers…
Not to Lokesh, obviously.
To you, in memory, yes
To the Nepalese geezers to whom it’s all “built into the psyche”…yes
And so on…
Maybe you`re asking: is it relevant as a whole to the needs of existence…?
You think that`s answerable?
I suppose those are the attractions of all-embracing religious or even scientific explanations.
I dont put much store in that type of thing.
Beloved Frank,
Would be beautiful if you would enlighten us as to the relevance of Lady Gaga.
Indeed, even more beautiful would be your opinions regarding the length of a
piece of string.
“Does initiation into sannyas have relevance now?”
It depends what kind of collective mind is installed in the brain.
For Indian and Nepalis it is as relevant as it was from the time Osho conceived this idea and started implementing it.
For hardcore western mindset, it has become dubious, it reminds them of the priests baptising the children in the name of long gone someone.
There must be dozen of Indians leading meditation camps and offering sannyas initiation, in the same pattern as it was refined during Osho´s second stay in Pune. Not a single high profile western name comes across in my memory, who is offering the similar platform for newcomers to take jump into something NEW.
If one goes into the tenants of Sannyas, Osho was quite clear to make a distinction between initiating into religions and his version of sannyas. I still remember that day in 1985, when I have read first time Osho saying something like, “Religions have entry doors but no exit. In my Sannyas, people will have the freedom to enter and leave too and there will be nobody to create guilt in them.”
Incidentally, i was working for years in Osho Academy of Sannyas Initiation to interview the new arrivals and participating in initiation ceremony.
To see the tears of gratitude in western eyes is having a very precious space in my memory.
Initiation into what exactly might be a good question to begin with. Shantam says, ‘take jump into something NEW.’ Well jumping off a cliff would be something NEW to most but would it do you much good…kind of doubt it. Or how about crossing an Autobhan blindfolded? Better sticking with the old? Questions, questions, questions.
SD, you say, ‘But you don’t anwser the question straight, you simply take refuge in a knowing ‘laugh’.’
That’s Frank. Not me.
There’s a difference though, tehuti:
Frank is invariably funny, so far you’re not.
Any chance of ‘enlightening’ us with some names etc. of the “few gems” you’ve discovered?
“There’s a difference though, tehuti:” . Thank God.
“Frank is invariably funny, so far you’re not.”. One clown is more than enough.
“Any chance of ‘enlightening’ us with some names etc. of the “few gems” you’ve discovered?”. Sure. Gems cost money. Very expensive. Not for free.
SD:
“Any chance of ‘enlightening’ us with some names etc. of the “few gems” you’ve discovered?”.
tehuti:
Sure. Gems cost money. Very expensive. Not for free.
SD:
That response wouldn’t amount to fear of putting yourself ‘on the line’, as it were, would it, tehuti? Or even be a bit of a ‘porkie’?
Sheer hostility seems to be more your thing – much easier to carry off, of course, especially when no one knows you….
“Sheer hostility seems to be more your thing”.
An unfair judgement; when there’s something of worth,I acknowledge it. When there’s bullshit, likewise. In ‘real’ life, I’m not much different. Quite amicable really.
Have I been hostile to you ?
No, you haven’t. Except that ignoring someone’s questions or being reluctant to give straight answers can often enough be a sort of hostility – or evidence of fear, or both.
I’m intrigued by your hostility towards Osho/sannyas, particularly upon what personal experience it’s based. And I reckon we should stick to discussing issues relevant to the topic we’re under or our comments might not be published.
“Does initiation into sannyas have relevance now?”…
To me, yes, any moment as an important step in the direction of truth and committment. Life is a free collective expression of overflowing Love; folks should celebrate together our “self”, without any pressure from a hostile minority. Because, if the same minority is taking away the freedom of expressing this freedom, Humanity is getting sick. It’s not of east or west, it is of Humanity.
After series of lives and deaths and wisdom gained through books and CD`s, finally grass seeds getting blossoming. Few of them even started taunting the leaves on the tree, maybe because they were unable to go under the shades. ” How long you are going to remain attached with the dry and brown branches? Don´t you have your own identity? Look at us, how independent we are. Small and tiny we may be, but don´t need any organised religion of other leaves and branches”. Aha…what a freedom!”
“After series of lives and deaths and wisdom gained through books and CD`s, finally grass seeds getting blossoming”. WTF!
“Few of them even started taunting the leaves on the tree, maybe because they were unable to go under the shades”.
Are you totally f*ked up? Is this what Sannyas has done for you; totally scrambled the few grey cells that you had between your ears?
Preetam, how’s initiation in Sannyas a step in the direction of Truth ?
HOW ?
By decision.
I was thinking since yesterday, from where came this little egg called tehuti?
From hen or from cock?
Would this egg prefer being fried or fully boiled? Maturity comes only when one is cooked in one form or another.
“Are you totally f*ked up? Is this what Sannyas has done for you; totally scrambled the few grey cells that you had between your ears?”…The little egg called tehuti.
If Lokesh, Satya Deva, Frank, Martyn would have used the above sentence for me or for anyone else, I will take this with grace…few people have earned their authority by walking the path. To tease these people, to think them as friends or foes in both ways, it is privilege. There is one old saying, ” It is better to have intelligent enemies then stupid friends”.
As Lokesh has written few posts above, his respect for everyone on daily basis,” unless they are a total tosser, those I generally ignore…not my line of work”.
This Mr. tehuti is one such, I feel to contest. Most of his little comments simply show “sheer hostility” as SD has observed too.
This site is almost like an ashram with gateless gate, but it does not mean it is Hyde Park!
I think editors should take notice that when someone new wants to enter, courtesy sake introduces himself, not just boom boom boom…
After all, shallowness has its own beauty but not when it pretends to be deep. This is for you, tehuti.
“After all, shallowness has its own beauty but not when it pretends to be deep.”
Make it your mantra, Shant, and meditate on it…not that it would do you any good …but who knows…just maybe….
Any chance of outlining your personal experience of Osho/sannyas, tehuti, to give an idea of how you’ve come to be so angry, so bitter about it all?
What about your “few gems” as well? Or are you afraid they’ll get similar treatment to what you like dishing out here?
There are some things that the Western mind cannot grasp, hence it simply discharges, denies and rejects altogether. Many times Osho said that his real work does not consist of words and public discourses, that they were just to entertain us. His work starts when we connect heart to heart with his energy.
My experience is that through the sannyas initiation I came closer to Osho, my heart opened and I allowed his energy to flow in and inundate me. I took sannays in Poona and to see that now that is “old fashion” makes me sad. Many people are starving for that experience and possibility. It is the most significant event in life and therefore I am extremely grateful to Arun for his effort to keep sannyas an alive phenomenon. In fact, with Arun Osho is alive. For too many, Osho is dead full stop and they are left with a bitter mouth that needs tons of rationalisations to make sense out of such a missed opportunity. If you guys go to Tapoban you can feel Osho is alive, dancing in the trees, celebrating and rejoicing with the many ecstatic sannyasins, which is the very essence of his message. You may not like Arun’s style, which might not appeal to a Western mind, but you cannot deny his sincere effort to spread Osho’s message. I repeat, with Arun Osho is alive and with no one else I had the same feeling.
“Many times Osho said that his real work does not consist of words and public discourses, that they were just to entertain us. His work starts when we connect heart to heart with his energy.”
Yes. This is true.
).
WHATEVER Osho delivered; NOW it’s gone.
Sannyas has become a ‘Cargo Cult’.
John Frum, has disappeared ( but not died