During the last week I met three individuals…
all of whom had in some way, to a lesser or greater extent, contact with Osho and as a result present three very different takes on Osho and the sannyas movement. By describing my meetings I am endeavouring to inject topics that hopefully supply some of our better commentators with something to get their teeth into.
H stayed as a guest at my house on Ibiza for a week. In her mid-sixties she is an initiate of various sadhu sects in northern India. I take this as a sign of H being a powerful woman, because she is the only female ever to be initiated by these male-dominated ascetic groups. Her approach to life is extremely intellectual, whilst maintaining a robust sense of humour. She first saw Osho during theearly seventies in Mount Abu meditation camps, where she sensed a religious fervour that she described as bordering on Nazism. In 1972 she sat and talked to Osho in his Malabar Hill apartment. ‘He asked me how my meditations were going’ she says, taking off her bi-focals and giving them a quick rub with a corner of her white cotton blouse. ‘I told him and as I spoke I had the distinct feeling that he was not the least bit interested in what I was saying in response to his question. I thought he was more of an intellectual than a guru. I did not feel attracted to him in any way and when I left his apartment I had no feeling to return there, because their was something creepy about the man that I did not like.’
HP is seventy and subsequent to our recent meeting I last saw him on the Goa Bombay ferry in 1977. He had returned to Ibiza to attend the funeral of a mutual friend who died unexpectedly. HP met Osho for the first time in Poona 1976. Osho requested that HP return to Ibiza and open a meditation centre, one of the first in Europe. HP did that and it is thanks to him that many Ibiza freaks went to Poona and took sannyas during the seventies. For me HP embodies all that is good about old-school sannyasins. He is very here and now, pleasant to be around, recalls his time with Osho fondly and supplied some very amusing anecdotes about his personal meetings with the master, functions well in society, has something eternal about him that is instantly recognizable if one has the eyes to see it, at all times he carries a wry sense of humour, practices a discipline that keeps him well in mind, body and spirit, leaving him a very well preserved seventy that makes him attractive to women and men alike on any number of levels. What I particularly enjoyed about HP was his lack of nostalgia and sentimentality, indications to me that he leads a full and happy life, wherein there is no need to return to the past and recall memories of better days when he felt more alive.
Pretty early on in Rajneeshpuram HP was ordered to give back his mala by Sheela. He refused and said, ‘Bring me to Osho and I’ll give it back to him, if he requests it.’ HP returned to the ranch on celebration days. ‘There was something fascistic about the ranch,’ he recalls, running a hand across his thick, wavy grey hair. ‘There was a lot of paranoia in the air towards the end. I was always in trouble with the people running the ranch. That was nothing new. I used to get in trouble with the bosses in Poona One also. Funny to have so many rebels in one place, and a bunch of women trying to control them.’ HP then spoke about Osho’s car collection. He found it hilarious and did not harbour any judgements about the master’s material antics. What be both agreed upon was how much help we had received from Osho, during a time when our lives were a lot more turbulent and confused than they are now. We also agreed that the whole Osho thing was very much a part of our personal history and although permanently changed, due to our sannyas experience, we both preferred to live today rather than yesterday. As for the future, well that was the third thing we agreed on. Basically there is no need to worry about the future because it will take care of itself, but like good boy scouts it does no harm to be prepared.
A is a thirty something clothes designer. I met her last night at a party. I found her very attractive as a women, and was in no doubt that if she had a middle name it would be ‘Trouble’. She is one of those women who are very aware of how beautiful they appear to men and I suspect that she uses this to her advantage in any number of ways. I recognized her name as being Sanskrit and asked where she got it. ‘Osho,’ she replied. I did not let on I was a sannyasin. ‘Did you actually meet Osho” I enquired. ‘No,’ she replied glancing down at her low-cut dress. She then mumbled something incomprehensible and it was then that I realised she was embarrassed, ashamed even. I quickly changed subject and pretty soon I disengaged myself and wandered off to see a group of belly-dancers perform under a tree, thinking to myself, such is life in the Deva Realm. It was later that night that I returned to my conversation with A and figured she was probably one of those people who took sannyas when it was ‘fashionable’. There’s a few of those on the island.
I sometimes wonder what young sannyasins believe themselves to be doing in modern times, joining the sannyas club. Perhaps some here would like to inform me. I’ve said it before and will say it once more. Most of the older sannyasins I know, who are still actively involved in the sannyasin movement, have some sort of investment in being a sannyasin in terms of credence, be they group leaders, therapists, meditation experts, book writers, armchair revolutionaries without a cause etc. Then there is that group of older sannyasins, who look a bit sad to me. You find them on Facebook posting photos of Osho along with some of his better sayings. Some of them I know and I also know they don’t actually practice what they are broadcasting. What they seem to derive pleasure from is recounting days long gone and if you watch them it soon becomes obvious that they are no different from any normal elderly person in that the past appears to be where it is at for them.
So there you have it, some recent observations. I’ll be curious to see what comes out of this little essay and hope it stays on track for a few days at least and stirs some controversy.
Lokesh
The first guest of Lokesh Ms. H, says, “I did not feel attracted to him in any way and when I left his apartment I had no feeling to return there, because there was something creepy about the man that I did not like.’
Lokesh has the observation, “In her mid-sixties she is an initiate of various sadhu sects in northern India. I take this as a sign of H being a powerful woman, because she is the only female ever to be initiated by these male-dominated ascetic groups.”
It means this strong woman does not find these Hindu sects creepy!
Does it also not mean, ” What fits with our temperament becomes beautiful, rest is only cabbage with potatoes.”
I hope Lokesh will visit her in the hindu sect’s headquarters and will say, ” Hey, guys, how long you are going to bow down before these imaginary pictures of Shiva and Vishnu, Rama and Krishna? Truth is not in the shelters of a sect but in the presence of Living Master; like Ramana…Like Punja…and with the punch he can even create laughter…and that creepy Osho!
That Ibiza sounds a lively spot and no mistake. Nice for a holiday. When worked in India we had R&R up in Goa got to know a few expats and perma hippies who had more or less settled there. Looked like a nice life but it wasn’t what, for want of a better phrase, you could call a ‘real life’.
Nearest thing most of ‘em had to sacred writing was English newspapers bummed from tourists fresh off the plane. Bit sad in a way, but nice in winter months.
Professional sannyasins get a living doing Osho-related trades and good luck. Therapies, bio-feckin-danza, flogging Humaniversity snake oil diplomas for silly money to sad folk with more money than sense. I tell fortunes. It’s a living, just. Maybe the younger end have a better idea. Few sem to belong to the Osho Trades and Labour Club. They maybe pick what fruit they want off the tree and ignore the rest. Some of ‘em will go on to carve out an Osho-related job, but not many. Maybe the rest will reify their take on Osho wherever they are, and so the wheel turns.
Books are selling well again just now. Maybe we’re due another Osho ‘revival’. If that comes it’ll be like before. Osho reimagined to suit his reimaginers.
It’s what the old scallywag would have wanted.
If Osho has succeeded in his objective to establish a school, a method of working with people (and if that success continues) and sannyas does not become a hierarchical religion, or religion in the traditional sense, surely we, sannyas, will be invisible. Won’t actually be any way of deciding if success or failure is happening, has happened.
Depends how you look at it.
Hierarchical resort’s success or failure is assessed by accountants.
Dhanyam will know how Viha is faring and we can all follow the ebb and flow via the excellent Viha Connection magazine.
Web presence to go by this one is surely lovely but sometimes rather grumpy sannyasins shouting at each other, without stopping to listen sometimes or old timers reminiscing. We struggle to present a united front ‘cos we are so disparate and malas apart there’s no visible presence since orange togs went out of fashion. My mate David Brazier Dharmavidya has insisted that his Amida people wear red. Easy to spot and gets folk interested plus there’s that handy sectarian mind-set spin-off. If they dress alike and the ones living in sangha are looked on by themselves and others as a sort of elite then that draws folk in too. But we’ve been there already and Dharmavdya would probably admit to pinching some Osho ideas, albeit in a darker hue as far as clothes go.
Sannyas-wise, then probably the same or more of the same if more sign on. Best way I reckon is for those who want an identifiable Osho sect to belong to is to set one up your own. That works for some of these jobbing gurus and it only takes one celeb joining you and you’re a made man. Quids in. Beyond that we’ll probably rock on as the hedonistic hedonists with a smattering of egoistic self-loathing that we always have been. Any way up if you can get a few paying punters on board or provide some service, bodywork with happy endings has to be a winner [you got it, you sell it and after you sold it...you still got it]; then Osho-related trades beats working hard for a living hands down. Also, as a retirement hobby, the Osho fancy has its advantages: if one puts oneself about a bit you meet similar types in real life via the odd festival. That you don’t get with carp fishing. Anybody wants a corporate look with communes full of dopey German ladies then I’d say check out Amida Buddhism. They’re where we were thirty years ago in some ways.
You said.
‘hedonistic hedonists with a smattering of egoistic self-loathing that we always have been.’
As far as I’m concerned, I rock. Not more than anyone else, but not less…
You also used the word disparate.
Absolutely.
Pluralistic.
We’ve fragmented into a million bits. Much better effort than ten, whatever it was, after the Buddha became a dead parrot.
A good thing too. Much harder for a cohesive, top-heavy organization to develop.
(The Church of Ananto.
Who’s in it is…
Ananato, but he doesn’t care.
He’s OK about that. LOL)
“Buddhist communes full of dopey German ladies”?
Well, if that doesn’t help you transcend sects, nothing will….
“…bio-feckin-danza, flogging Humaniversity snake oil diplomas for silly money to sad folk with more money than sense…”
Hi Ananto, I’m just wondering what bugs you about Biodanza? You reckon it’s a sort of ‘rip-off’ from its ‘true sannyas roots’ or something?! I don’t think it is, in fact I came across an old ‘London and South-East Connection’ booklet recently, dated 1996, where Biodanza classes were advertised. Besides, I’m told by someone who did a Poona Dance Training in the early 80′s that she’d come across Biodanza in London a few years before that training course (and had very much enjoyed it).
Also, what’s your problem with the Humaniversity? Do you seriously doubt Veeresh, a man who’s given his life to helping people in emotional crisis? Hasn’t his set-up helped and inspired countless people over the years to live less painful, more conscious, better lives? Sure, it’s not for everyone – but is anything?
You’re in the ‘fortune-telling’ game…Some might say that there’s more than a whiff of “snake oil” about that. And that Biodanza and the Humaniversity might be of considerably more value….
What about Humaniversity fortune-telling?
Ive heard that its pretty good…
Yes…er…I can see a tall, dark stranger in the astral realms, in a rabbit outfit, smoking a huge doobie with his dick hanging out…
Does the letter V mean anything to you…?
Something about dried fruit…er…
Yes,he wants a date….
No, maybe fresh fruit, he wants a juicy one…
Yes…he`s got a message from the Beyond…
What`s his message from beyond the grave…?…
Yes…I`m trying…
i`m getting it…
It’s better to die…no wait,
er yes…
It’s better to die fucking than mind-fucking…….
That’s it…..
Osho Biodanza…
Now, that really does sound like soap powder…
“Try Biodanza’s unique 2 in 1 action…
Launder your soul and
get those chuddies enlighter than white in one box!!”
Frank said,
“The first were “naturals”, that is, born idiots…It was cruel, they just had idiots and retards around and laughed at them.
( a forerunner of shantology, maybe)
Definitely not PC”.
Shantam is a fool because he is so lacking in self-knowledge he believes himself to be wise, so challenging him is not, not pc.
Re the history of the fool.
The ancient Egyptian pharoahs imported pygmies for their court, as well as having dancing dwarves.
They thought they were the best entertainment of all.
If you didn’t have a few pygmies around the place, you were a nobody.
Who was it that said:
“If you can’t change something, find out what it’s for” ?
Pygmies, buffoons, racist sexist homophobic religious nutters…?
Bring ‘em on, we all need a good laugh….
Interesting posts, guys. I’ve always liked Veeresh. I have an Aum Marathon to thank back in the mid-seventies for kicking me into nicotine addiction, which I’ve had an off-and-on relationship with since then. The Humaniversity is for me representative of a last resort…If all else fails, head there. It is a great place for people who need to sort out serious issues. You can’t fault Veeresh for creating that.
Satyadeva asks, ‘Do you seriously doubt Veeresh, a man who’s given his life to helping people in emotional crisis?’ Well, I don’t doubt that he has cut out a lifestyle for himself that includes a lot of bells and whistles that many can only dream about. I watched a vid recently wherin he was describing a meeting with Osho that sounded to me like sentimental romanticism. I question all those who have become someone in Osholand, using their contact with him as a springboard for their own personal careers. I think the truth is that Osho, amongst other things, was a very convenient screen for projecting all manner of things on to. He had the look, he had the patter and he had big vibes. I know I projected a lot on to him that had absolutely nothing to do with who or what he actually was. It took an intense meeting with another master to wake me up to that one.
Biodanza? What is that? I’m starting a biggish dance gathering in September. It is not bio, more New Clear Funk. But you do remove your footwear before blast-off.
Lokesh,
I think your nicotine addiction story is par for the Humaniversity course.
Actually, does anyone actually know anyone who went to the Humaniversity who came out doing less substances than when they went in?
In a “rehab”?
I heard him not so long ago on the (famous broadcaster)Johnny Walker radio show explaining how he kept his son off drugs by saying, “If you take hard drugs, `ill break your legs”.
Embarrassing.
Yep, Church of Nanto has only one member. And they argue.
Egoistical self-loathing as in loathing for the egoistical self alternate Tuesdays when there’s an R in the month. I lurve me. Ego is a bummer sometimes though. BioDanza – feck it. If they get a living, good luck – but why and how?
Any flippin’ dancing will do the same job if you are pissed enough and the company’s good. Snake Oil diplomas from Humaniversity as in charging what a proper accredited qualification would cost for something that isn’t worth the paper it’s written on and little more as far as any European awarding body accreditor is concerned. And Veeresh, bless him, has done well out of it. Good luck. And what about those Osho cruise holidays? I did have a fancy once to approach Butlins Holiday Camp at Skegness to pitch Osho-themed weekends. They do those for Swing, forties music and such, folk dress for the era. Why not orange togs and Osho music?
Dopey German ladies. Why is that? Any commune anywhere, there they are, cloned. Always lots of marginally serious young German ladies about. Anjuna Beach is like downtown Baden Baden come full moon. Fortune telling is an honest trade compared to some, Franko. Atomistic Osho is fine by me. Wouldn’t really fit into the sort of cult that would have the likes of me for a member. Sitting at the back throwing bottles, I know my place, Guv.
Lokesh,
That`s an interesting essay.
I enjoyed that.
The only thing I find a bit hard to believe is that `A` was the one glancing down at her low-cut dress rather than you!
Also…armchair revolutionaries without a cause?
I`ve a sneaking feeling I may have come across one of those somewhere…
And was it really “fashionable” to take sannyas?
Mind you,I did meet an Armani sadhu with the whole designer saffron kit and goldplated kamandalu once in Delhi, so anything’s possible, I guess….
Frank, you caught me out. I was going to mention it, but decided to give it a miss. So, just for the record, A had a fantabulous pair of……ear rings.
Lokesh, that seems like good stuff for a book, well written and with original material.
There’s a good scene in a Ridley Scott movie, ’1492′, where Christopher Columbus is being criticized by a local Spanish politician for his failures in the New World. Columbus tells the politician to look out the window, and tell him what he sees (they are in a major European city, I think it was Lisbon or Madrid). ‘I see spires and buildings reaching to the heavens’ answers the politician, ‘I see civilization in all of its greatness!’ To which Columbus replies, ‘Yes — and all of it built by men like me’.
I think we either make something of our life, or someone else will sweep us into their agenda. Sannyasins got swept into a powerful current of energy, which for most was very beneficial. But the source of that current died in 1990. The time to move on came long ago. ‘Moving on’ doesn’t necessitate leaving, as such, but it does require doing something, creating in some way, reaching one’s own understanding, in order to go beyond a forced attempt at being a ‘nobody’. False humility was never a value encouraged by Osho, for one.
Yes, Teertha, that elusive third book is lurking somewhere just around the corner, half a mile from heaven. Maybe I will get around to creating it one day. At present, I don’t have the focus for it. All my spare time goes into reigniting my career as a DJ on Ibiza. I have the idea for a great story but as yet am not passionate enough to actually sit down and do it.
Here is a recent review of my first novel on Osho Magazine if you feel inclined to read it.
http://www.oshonews.com/2012/07/mind-bomb-lokesh/
Mind Bomb is an excellent premise (being original is always key, which it is), and sounds like good material for a movie-script, although that industry is struggling like everything else of late. (I was contacted by a lesser-known Hollywood director last year who had read my ‘Magi’ book and was interested in my private Skype sessions. He bailed when told the modest fee — ‘I’m in between gigs’ he said — although I do have another contact interested in setting some of it to script). I think there’s room for a fictional treatment of sannyas, something along the lines of what Tim Guest was trying via his (factual) ‘My Life in Orange’, or even on allegorical lines as in Gurdjieff’s ‘Beelzebub’. Maybe Osho’s ‘Notes of a Madman’ was his own version of fiction. Every writer knows that you can’t beat actual travel stories for fictional material, and life with Osho was unbeatable in that regard.
An old favourite film of mine that reminds me a bit of your Mind Bomb premise is ‘Sorcerer’ (the William Friedkin version, about a bunch of mercenaries transporting dynamite through a Brazilian jungle — one wrong move with their truck, and kaboom). The bridge scene, rich in metaphor, is a classic:
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Incidentally, a few years ago I was about 50 miles northeast of you, where I was running a 4 day workshop on Palma de Mallorca for a group of 15 stubborn Germans. After the training was over, while I was staying in a small hotel in Palma, I awoke one hot afternoon and turned on the TV to a live bullfight. I rubbed my eyes, thinking I was dreaming, never having seen a live bullfight before. I felt like a character out of a Hemingway novel.
Two years ago I went through a movie rights trip with a movie director, who was in love with Mind Bomb. ‘I reckon ten million euros will be enough to do a good treatment’, he said. I learned quite a few lessons during that year in regards how the movie world works. Shark-infested waters.
Stick with it. It’s movie-script material, perhaps find an agent.
And speaking of book reviews, some amusing reviews of my most recent book here (I especially like ‘a self-improvement manual for the sarcastically inclined’):
http://www.amazon.com/Rude-Awakening-Perils-Pitfalls-Spiritual/dp/1846946093/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1344057531&sr=1-2
Teertha, what is transpersonal therapy, please?
It sounds like an attempt to bring some sort of spiritual perspective into therapy. But is it that?
And if it is, how successful is this work?
Your book sounds as if its main theme is distinguishing the ‘psychic’, ie what is of the human psyche – varieties of thought and emotion – from the spiritual, which is impersonal. Would this be correct?
Also, you said that sannyas was a powerful wave of energy that sannyasins were part of for a number of years, but that then there is the time – now – for the ‘ego’ to re-emerge. What was the purpose, then, of sannyas, in your view, and what exactly do you mean by advocating this re-creation of ‘ego’? Are you sure you have your terms right?
SD,
Transpersonal is basically a mash-up of psychobabble and spiritual babble…
The egoic projection of the atmanic qualities onto the samsaric shadow can be a transformative factor in the crystallisation of a new paradigm of self in alignment with the buddhistic symbolism of avoliteskara and of no-self within the psycho-somatic and ecological realities or skandhas of ordinary life, opening multiple paradigms for assimilation, individuation and ultimate transcendence of the mundane aspects, or post-buddhistic paradigms of the development of gradual or sudden awakening or satori, in the spiritual being, independent of the sway of dualistic phallocratic or even philo-phallocratic narratives co-existing with the core concept of nowness…
type of thing….
Ron Hubbard meets Ken Wilber meets Shantam type of thing…
“shantology”, perhaps…
It’s big in the States and Hollywood….
You can lob a bit of Andrew Cohen in too, for good measure….
Well, thanks a lot, Frank, that’ most, er…interesting….
It’s from my definitive work…
“Holographic Haircuts…
A metaparapsychologicorifical approach to the
the slaphead paradox”
Shantology is banned in Scotland.
To make one Transpersonal Therapy Cocktail…mix
One part Transactional Analysis
One pat Other-Centred Psychotherapy
One part NLP mirroring gimmick
One part bullshit when you forget any element of parts one, two or three.
Shake well, whilst adopting a concerned yet deeply empathic expression. Nod a lot whilst letting the customer do the talking. DO NOT GIGGLE!
Pour and sell.
Never forget that the bartender – sorry… therapist – is always in charge. You call time, not the punter.
SD — Re ‘transpersonal’, what Frank said (he knows everything, so no need to add further — Frank is like a combination of Yoda and Jabba the Hut).
As for your other —
“Also, you said that sannyas was a powerful wave of energy that sannyasins were part of for a number of years, but that then there is the time – now – for the ‘ego’ to re-emerge.”
– not sure where you got the term ‘ego’ from. What I wrote was there is a time to move on. By moving on, I mean coming out from beneath the apron of a guru. Unfolding one’s deepest destiny, true will, or highest potential, however you want to think of that. Or to use a favourite word of Osho’s, ‘blossoming’. In my years of living in sannyas houses (in the ’80s) I met too many who hid behind the guru, who feared life, couldn’t pay their bills, lived off welfare, thought poorly of themselves, etc. Because Osho was so charismatic, it was tempting to think that mere allegiance to him would solve everything — ‘just surrender to me’ — but this is never true, as we all find out.
The book (Rude Awakening) is in part polemical, meaning a critique of weaker areas of spiritual philosophy (new age flakiness, let’s say). I have to admit it was fun to write in part because I lived in (and enacted) some of the most extreme such new age zaniness myself.
Ok, Teertha, thanks for your reply. Yes, I mistakenly thought you’d written ‘ego’ – should have checked (just shows how one can get the wrong idea).
However, I’m still in the dark re the nature and purpose of transpersonal therapy. What does it involve? (Frank’s description – you surely can not be serious?!).
If it can’t easily or adequately be put into layman’s terms then I might even begin to think it could be something akin to one of “the weaker areas of spiritual philosophy”…(But surely Ananto can’t be on the right track?!). Or are you ‘running scared’, just a bit, of Frank’s merciless satire?!
SD — ‘transpersonal therapy’ basically means therapy within a spiritual context. Or, put more simply, therapy for those interested in meditation, or other ‘inner work’ practices. The main idea is that traditional therapy is based on helping people adjust or conform to the world so they can feel accepted by their peer-groups, and feel better about themselves as a result. The so-called ‘transpersonal’ model seeks to go beyond that by being more about self-exploration — all Osho therapists (regardless of one’s opinion of them) are basically transpersonal therapists. This Wiki article is not bad:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transpersonal_psychology
ps SD — as for ‘Frank’s merciless satire’ — it’s one of the reasons I keep coming back here! (Every therapist needs his entertainment). Frank is a bit like Will Somers, the court jester for Henry VIII — he was the only one who could get away with criticizing the king, although he usually did it in veiled allegory — lest he lose his head! (Ananto seems to be bucking for Frank’s position — time will tell if he’s up to par).
Teertha,
I thought I knew everything too…but I had to google Yoda and Jabba…
In fact, my entire knowledge of sci-fi consists of a handful of cliches from original Star Trek series…and i have never watched anything that involved people with funny-shaped heads and distorted bodies walking through automatic doors – if I need that I go down to my local supermarket….
Trust your old Uncle Ananto, Satyadeva, I’m a Doctor. Psychotherapists, all of ‘em, are just playing at being the punter’s Mommy, for Money. Factoring out the shysters who do well for a while then move on, Psychotherapy’s a sinecure status job for the less academic with disposable income. The real money is in selling those sorts of expensive ‘training’ courses with an in-house diploma at the end, but then insist they come back for sixty quid an hour supervisions every quarter in order to keep their ticket to practise. Almost as many approaches as there are Protestant sects and all of ‘em bollocks. No regulatory body as such in the UK. Not with any teeth, at least. Kosher, properly trained counsellors or therapists belong to BACP or UKCP, the also-rans do Humaniversity or similar faux training then hope to get a living. Few do.
I was registered with UKCP back in the day via the Society for Existential Analysis. An august body of like-minded therapists, our Motto being…
‘Shit Happens. Live with it.’
Ananto, I’m all for debunking all manner of pretensions and cant, and no doubt in the world of psychotherapy there are shysters and charlatans, bogus practitioners using useless methods, but you’re far too dismissive of the ‘trade’, in my view. You come across as someone who’s never had to face problems severe enough to be compelled to find professional help. Good for you if that’s the case, you’ve had ‘good karma’ – or been fortunate…But those of us who have are likely to paint another sort of picture, where seeing a good therapist might even have been a ‘life-saver’.
As for the Humaniversity training, I imagine most go into that for their own personal well-being, rather than to attain a useful qualification. It’s unconventional all right, extreme even, unlikely to be accepted by official regulatory bodies – but so what, if it works?
You seem slightly ‘mysterious’, ie a sannyasin, depicting yourself as someone living somewhat ‘on the edge’, just ‘getting by’ on what many would regard as a highly, er, ‘iffy’ business, ‘fortune-telling’, while also taking a rather conventional line here. Nothing intrinsically ‘wrong’ in such contradictions, of course, but you seem far too certain about some things, summed up in labelling all therapy as “bollocks”!
But perhaps you’re simply exaggerating for effect, to make a point?
And btw, as for your blanket dismissal of Biodanza, I wonder whether you’ve actually done it at all, as my source informs me that it’s nothing like a sort of drunken Saturday night knees-up, but rather a system of conscious self-expression, where one is encouraged to go deeper into various aspects of one’s being…No doubt ‘old hat’ to you and others, but why dismiss it so confidently, with such an almost ‘jaundiced’, ‘know-it-all’ air even, when a lot of people enjoy it, feel good with it? More deliberate exaggeration, perhaps?
Funny enough, did about 40 sessions of Trans Therapy back in the late eighties. Not profound, but served me well during a difficult patch.
‘Taking the piss’ means to take liberties, or to be unreasonable. It is often used (or confused) with ‘taking the piss out of’, which is an expression meaning to mock, tease, ridicule, or scoff.[1] ‘Taking the Mickey’ (Mickey Bliss, Cockney rhyming slang) or ‘taking the Michael’ is another term for making fun of someone. These terms are most widely used in the United Kingdom, Ireland, South Africa, New Zealand and Australia.
The term sometimes refers to a form of mockery in which the mocker exaggerates the other person’s characteristics; pretending to take on his or her attitudes, etc., in order to make them look funny. Or it may be used to refer to a ruse where a person is led to believe something is true that is not (usually a fairly unbelievable story) for the purpose of ridicule of the subject.
The phrase is in common usage throughout British society, employed by headline writers in broadsheet gazettes and tabloids as well as colloquially. It is also used in English-speaking countries such as Australia.
In colloquial usage, “taking the piss” is also used to refer to someone or something that makes a claim which is not in line with a recognised agreement e.g. an invoice that is double the quoted price with no explanation for the added charge could be said to “take the piss”, or likewise if something consistently misses a deadline.
The term can also mean to take unfair advantage. For example, if someone has a food buffet and one guest clearly takes more than their expected share. It can also relate to an abuse of trust, such as “You can use my ‘phone, but don’t take the piss!”
Satire
For the mythological creature, see satyr.
Satire is primarily a literary genre or form, although in practice it can also be found in the graphic and performing arts. In satire, vices, follies, abuses, and shortcomings are held up to ridicule, ideally with the intent of shaming individuals, and society itself, into improvement. Although satire is usually meant to be funny, its greater purpose is often constructive social criticism, using wit as a weapon.
A common feature of satire is strong irony or sarcasm —”in satire, irony is militant” — but parody, burlesque, exaggeration, juxtaposition, comparison, analogy, and double entendre are all frequently used in satirical speech and writing. This “militant” irony or sarcasm often professes to approve of (or at least accept as natural) the very things the satirist wishes to attack.
Satire is nowadays found in many artistic forms of expression, including literature, plays, commentary, and media such as lyrics.
These include a few fine distinctions, Arpana, but perhaps as a general rule, satire always tends to ‘extract the Michael’, whereas the latter might not necessarily qualify as satire?
I once wrote a short story kalpas of moons ago called Monsoon Wedding, writing as Hazel Le Baron. Flogged it to a magazine for eighty quid with worldwide rights. Four years later…It was a great movie too.
I suppose that whatever the theoretical blurb, transpersonal therapy, like fortune-telling or any therapy, is just an excuse to get people together and have a type of conversation/interaction that they wouldn’t normally have, with a view to some personal benefit all round?
And like all meetings, it could go anywhere.
You could end up merging with the the Cosmos,
disappear up your own ass,
or get shafted by a used karma salesman…
“You pays your money , you takes your chances”,
as the cockney mystics say….
Good title…so good I nearly used it.
There were two kinds of fool back in the days of the courts…
The first were “naturals”, that is, born idiots…
It was cruel, they just had idiots and retards around and laughed at them.
( a forerunner of shantology, maybe)
Definitely not PC.
Then there were the “clever” fools…
These were the ones we know about, like Will Somers and King Lear’s Fool, some of whom became really quite powerful, despite usually being hated by priests and nobility alike (and sometimes lost their heads).
I say Osho, sitting on his neo-feudal throne, badly lacked such a fool, it left him at the mercy, not only of Sheela, but of countless brownie-point-seeking brown-nosers, tale-bearers and enlightenment-lickers etc…
He had a lot of relig-idiots when he could have done with a village idiot, maybe…
Possibly he was more predisposed to being a bit of a fool himself in his younger days, doing his pranks etc.
and being king just wasn’t totally him and he got bored of it and started winding up his assistants and disciples….
Nice to listen to conversations in the orange retirement home…each one talking about a different subject, and going on…interesting subjects, by the way.
Frank asks,’And was it really “fashionable” to take sannyas?’
Well, one thing is certain, it was definitely very unfashionable for many years. In 70′s India, Goa freaks had a real anti-sannyas trip running, never mind the rest of the Indian populace. Back in the West I think the general public viewed orange-clad sannyasins as some kind of good-looking Hari Krishna sect…maybe they were right. On Ibiza, sanyassins in orange were dubbed ‘Butanos’, due to the fact that butane gas bottles that many use for cooking are the same colour.
Somehow, over the years, sanyasins have gained a certain kind of respect. mainly due to many of the older ones being pretty cool people. All those therapy groups we did back when rid us of the many hang-ups that plague modern society and the ones who are not totally dumbed-down notice. I recently attended the funeral of a friend who had a protracted battle with cancer. She formed one half of a sannyasin long-time couple. The husband is a good friend of mine. He was devastated by his loss, but somehow managed to remain dignified. I told him how sorry I felt for the loss of his beloved. ‘Lokesh,’ he said, ‘we trained for years with the old man so that we learned how to encounter situations such as this.’ He was right and I took my hat off to him. The other day, I had a confrontation with one of my closest Spanish friends. He threw a wobbler when we were in deep water off the coast, five minutes after I asked him if he was okay. Highly respected in society, a brilliant physician and researcher, he knows almost nothing in terms of the mind’s mechanics. He was projecting his paranoia onto other swimmers…dangerous in such a situation as fear is contagious and can cause other swimmers to get leg cramps. Basically, he was experiencing fear, but would he admit it? No. He tried to talk his way out of it. I told him where to go in no uncertain terms. The idea of psychological projection of one’s phobias is child’s play, yet highly educated people do not understand it in modern society. What to say of deeper issues like self-enquiry?
During the early nineties, being a sannyasin definitely became fashionable for some time. I take it that people were just fed up with the way they were going and coming in contact with sannyasins who seemed to be enjoying life more than they were probaly helped. Sanyasin women also have a sense of sexual relaxedness that outsiders find fascinating etc,
This brings me to an interesting point. I think that the total breakdown with sannyas organizations like The Resort in Poona might not be a bad thing, because it decentralizes the movement and the spores of sannyas disperse into mainstream society. No longer having to wear orange also helps, because that kind of thing erects psychological barriers. We have gone underground and the ones who took the best out of Osho’s teaching spread the good news simply by being who they are. Disorganized religion, one might say. There are also many sannyasins who missed the point entirely, much of whom are now socially dysfunctional. In the sixties we had acid casualties, now we have cult casualties. It was high on Osho’s agenda that word spread throughout the world. That is happening now, not verbally but in energetic terms, which was what Osho was always about. The man made some major blunders but he did a brilliant job on other levels. Osho was one of a number of men and women who saw early what is now happening on our planet. The scales will now tip one way or another and we may be fast approaching a point where the damage done will be irreversible. Vastly outnumbered, our job is to bring a return to inner values as opposed to purely materialistic ones…no problem if you have your material trip together, in fact that can help. Zorba the Buddha is still alive and kicking. Well, at least this version writing to you right now is. Take the best from what you learned from being a sannyasin and forget the rest, is how I see it.
“When others took the sannyas, it was fashion. For me, it was a higher calling.”
” Life is a give-and-take. Master wanted to fill the auditorium. Disicples wanted to have good time. All is well that ends well.”
” Is it luck or my smartness, I was the first one to enter the ship, and also the first one who left minutes ago, before it really started sinking…?”
” There can be many kinds of people on the earth, but my type are the coolest.”
” Once the contents are empty, you don´t need to keep Tetra pack. Are you not from this world, dear?”
(Notes from an unpublished biography of Cool sannyasin)
Shantam, when I read your words it makes me think of what I wrote earlier: ‘they don’t actually practise what they are broadcasting.’ Or how about: ‘There are also many sannyasins who missed the point entirely’? I say that because you don’t appear to have much in the way of that ‘higher calling’, which you are proclaiming yourself to be driven by. Perhaps you’d be so kind as to inform other readers what actually constitutes that higher calling. (I doubt you will, Shantam, because most times you get called on SN you deliver nada.)
From what I can guage from your comments, you appear to live in a room full of mirrors, constantly reacting against all those reflections that you are surrounded by, blind to the fact that it is only yuorself which you see. I find your posturing about who controls the resort to be ridiculous. Once more I state that it might not be a bad thing for The Resort to dissolve. That way fools like yourself will have to find another imaginary holy spot to raise your flag of self-righteousness upon.
On one level I am most grateful to you, Shantam, for alerting me to the fact that people like you exist. It is hardly surprising, taking into consideration your background and your lack of any real contact with Osho. To me, you are made of the same stuff as all of those poor people who lost their lives battling over the holy spot in Ayodha. You give significance to your life by struggling against an imaginary enemy. Pretty basic.
Past couple of days I’ve found myself recalling when I worked in Osho’s parents’ house. They were a fairly typical Indian family with a relgious bent. Their son had hit the big time and they were enjoying a few crumbs from the master’s table. Their approach to Osho the guru was a fairly traditional one, in that they behaved like Hindus at the feet of a supposed avatar. When Osho’s dad died one of the last things he said was something about stopping the wheel, which I took as a sign the man had got something right. I liked Osho’s father and mother. Very sweet people who were into enjoying a life with a nice set of traditional spiritual values. Unlike you, Shantam, they were genuinely happy campers. So come on Shantam, share something about your higher calling.
The beauty of Lokesh is he asks and asnwers his own questions.
Q: I sometimes wonder what young sannyasins believe themselves to be doing in modern times, joining the sannyas club?
A: Zorba the Buddha is still alive and kicking.
OSHO, beloved Lokesh, is still alive and kicking and there are more to join, many more that you cannot even imagine! When you are gone, Osho will still be kicking even more then!
I like your term “Disorganized religion”-I can live with that. Religions and organisations are ugly, but underground disorganized religion has some value.
When I’d go for my first group in an Osho centre,I already had some experience with meditation by practising martial arts and Taichi. What attracts me about Osho, after I’d read some talks from him, was the syncretism that he brings, so many therapies, techniques and approaches, with people who are so different from each other and probably without him in normal society wouldn’t have much to share with each other. Today it’s possible to find this syncretism in many other places and situations and without being harmed into any kind of devotional trip if you are not wishing to.
Still, compared with this the old sannyas people who are still working as therapists or leading meditation seem to have a kind of “intensity”. This is probably because of the strong experiences they have been going through and this gives a kind of “depth” to the whole scene that is often missed in other “new age” groups. Obviously I’m talking about the really talented ones. There are also completely idiotic people….
It seems the Osho effect is to take out all the best and all the worst from the people who were near to him: basically, he cannot give you anything that is not already in you, and this also he has said. Then for marketing reasons they have to make it look like a paradise full of beautiful people, but we know that is only the half part of the story. As an old Italian sannyasin wrote: “The Osho commune was a place where paradise and hell co-existed together, very near to each other”. There are many other things I could write, that is what comes out from this moment.
Only time will tell. My current impression is that Osho made a fairly big impact, but not as much as some imagine. It’s unfortunate that Osho will be remembered in mainstream society as the Indian guru who had ninety-nine Rolls Royces and the man whose disciples perpetrated the only successful biological attack on American soil in history. I say unfortunate because there was so much more to him than that which was of a positive nature and could be of benefit to many. It is all castles made of sand as far as I am concerned. Whatever happened to the way of the white cloud?
It is a mistake to think that your particular guru is special because he is popular. Osho once said there is nothing more ridiculous than thinking about how one will be remembered after they die.
Ramana Maharshi seems to be more popular than ever and he did not have a public relations office working for him. For me ‘The Boss’ was none other than Mumbai’s beedie wallah. Few knew of him while alive yet the teachings he left inspire many. H W L Poonja told me that whenever you see a crowd gathering around a master, beware. I know what he meant.
Yes, very difficult when crowds appear. Voltaire once said when the crowd cheered him to the rafters at one of his plays: yeah, they would cheer equally loudly if I was being dragged to my execution.
People like Hitler, well, yes, it is difficult to acknowledge, but he was devilish popular say in 1935…and huge crowds greeted him and must, at that time, thought he was some kind of deliverer.
Once I was wandering round India and came across one Baba with just one disciple. He made no attempt whatsoever to get me to become a disciple, but I hung around for a bit. Looking back now over the tally of my experiences, one could say he had “the” light in his eye, as did his disciple…Now I realise he must have made an art of getting people to move on from him, or just as in my case, disappearing somewhere over night.
Poonjaji told a story about travelling in India and how over many years he only met two real geezers. One of them wandered out of the jungle one day. The man had tropical ulcers on his legs and Poonjaji saw maggots in the wounds. When he offered to help, the geezer said, ‘It’s okay, the maggots are hungry.’ Turns out it was some enlightened chap who only came out of the bushes once every few years. Haven’t heard anything more of him.
Reminds me of a junkie I met in Delhi, who had maggots living in his head.
It never bothered him.
Btw…did I tell you about the time I was smoking a chillum with a few guys and this guy coughs and coughs then suddenly out of his throat flew a gigantic worm..?
India is a spiritual place, alright….
“When others took the sannyas, it was fashion. For me, it was a higher calling.”
Where is Satya Deva to remind Lokesh, “Shantam was sarcastic. it is a satire for holy groly”.
I am not the one who judges simple people on their individual path. Neither I will tell anybody, ” Why you are wasting your time to reach Truth Museum in different buses? It can be reached only through the tube No. 1!
If I have got one bullet to shoot someone, be sure it will not be the hidden boyfriend of my girlfriend. Why not use the bullet for someone who is screwing millions of others?
Same is about the satire. To pull the trousers down of the smartest ass in the class is what one calls, ” Fighting for the underdog”.
Me too, on one level I am most grateful to you, Lokesh, Frank associates, for alerting me to the fact that people like you exist.
It simply shows, millions of Christians cannot be on the wrong path though none of them had the chance to be in the presence of Living Jesus!
Your own Personal Jesus
Someone to hear your prayers
Someone who cares
Your own Personal Jesus
Someone to hear your prayers
Someone who’s there
Depeche Mode
-If teachings through the books are the indication of person´s deep penetration into the human heart, the writer of ” Fifty Shades of Grey” is the real one. Millions of women cannot be wrong!
-All the subjects under the earth one must study in the universites. For spirituality, books are enough. If Bible is not working, no problem. Ramesh Balsekar has better ingredients.”
-Books of Indian gurus are hit in the west, because few people get the message straight. ” Truth is easier to find than to put your finger in the nose and taste it with the tip of the tongue.”
-Don´t tell me about my Ego. I have not! Hallelujah…person who makes my greed for higher self easy is the person I adore the most.”
-It is a very famous saying by one M.B.B.S, MD ji, ” Doctors who create ultra-speciality hospitals are only concerned about their investment. Beware. All the sicknesses can be cured by GP.”
.
Shantam, instead of writing all that mumbo-jumbo, why not do as I request and describe that higher calling you have been experiencing? Otherwise you might give the impression that you are flakey.
flakey adj.,to be unreliable, and/or absent-minded, flighty, fickle. Generally unresponsible
I think we all give our own meaning to “Higher Calling”, as we give to love or God.
Few people see their so-called higher calling taking a concrete shape in the world, even Bin Laden or Syriâ’s Assad can claim to have some higher vision supporting their existence. In Osho’s world, Jayesh and Amrito can have this idea that they are being chosen by divinity of Osho to protect the purity of master’s vision. Swami Rajneesh is another name coming in my mind, who thinks he is operating from his higher calling. Naturally, some people are stubborn till their bones, almost like colour blind people.
I am sure, there are many like me, tormented by some hunger or thirst on the being level, which may not materialise into some concrete breakthrough in this very life.
Only question is whether the person is ready to live with this wound or gets a quick fix solution form some Boots!
Every day of my life I have lived in Pune as a foot-soldier of Osho has given a certain kind of satisfaction which i have not felt anywhere else in the world or in some profession.
When I am writing on this site or on Facebook on the subject Osho, I have this same satisfaction, therefore it is the right cause for me. Regime may change or not, I am being nurtured by the process.
In any case, people who claim to have some higher calling always have a minority opinion, quite often ridiculed by their peers, and in majority of the cases get the last laugh….
Who knows, this Shantam is being remembered by the generation of coming Osho people as one of the Real ones, though I am quite sure we are not living in that time of Buddha or Jesus where one Soap opera was being run for hundreds of years. In this fast-changing time spiritual brands have their limited shelf value unless they are being run by the Colgate executives who always create a new flavour from the old to go on occupying the space in people’s imagination.
Unfortunately; with Osho it is not the same. unless some miracle happens, as it is now, Osho will be just like Aurbindo Ghosh or J krishnamurti’s kind of ashrams where past is bigger than the future, almost like Detroit City, lost glory of American automobile industry.
Shantam, I see you as someone who is completely missing the point, which is that the real revolution is an inner one, not an outer one. Your main focus is on the outside. Namely your fixation with the way the resort in Pune is being run. As a man believes it to be so it is.
When you say, ‘a foot-soldier of Osho ‘ I have visions of a church full of bleating Christians singing ‘Onward Christian Soldiers’. You come across as a Don Quixote type character, battling with windmills. You imagine yourself to be in a war. How tragic. In presenting your explanation of what a higher calling represents to you it almost entirely relates to things taking place outside of you.
You say, ‘tormented by some hunger or thirst on the being level’. Yet you do not enquire into what or who is that being that experiences such things.
You came into this world as nobody and slowly through the influence of those around you have been led to believe you exist as a separate entity, when in fact you don’t. You are campaigning in your imagination for a man whose epitaph says he was never born and never died. I wonder if you have ever contemplated what that actually means. The cure for your tormented soul lies in discovering that you also were never born and will never die, that your true identity lives apart from the body-mind complex that you have become identified with and as a result embark upon fruitless activities, like fighting for a change at the resort, as if this will make a difference in the dream existence your non-existent soul is dreaming, wherin such fignents of imagination conjure up such puffs of vain-glorious waffle as the following; ‘Shantam is being remembered by the generation of coming Osho people as one of the Real ones.’ Real whats exactly? Fools? Losers? Misguided? Delusional? Utterly lost? One can only wonder.
It is somehow fascinating for the mind to bear witness to such a microcosm of what is going on in the world today, and perhaps what has been going on since man first staggered out of Africa’s wilderness 100,000 years ago. Avatars come and go, leaving their eternal message behind…look within. Very few listen. Why? Well perhaps, Shantam, you are at least stating something worthwhile in your conclusion that ‘some people are stubborn till their bones, almost like colour blind people.’ Does that ‘some people’ include yourself?
You declare, ‘I am being nurtured by the process.’ Really? I wonder what you think that ‘I’ which is being nurtured actually is and to what ends it requires nurturing.
Shantam, my conclussion is the same that I have come to before. You are a misguided fool who is adding substance to his existence by fighting imaginary foes. One could say that you are wasting your time completely, but perhaps there is no time to waste. A tribe of ethnics in the Amazon was discovered recently and it was soon revealed that they had no words in their limited lexicon that related to time, which one could conclude as meaning that those people don’t believe in time’s existence.
Thanks for your comment. It provides much in the way of defining how an ignorant buffoon like you operates. Good to know, because that is how most function in this world and it is good to know your enemy. In saying ‘enemy’ I am not referring to you personally, Shantam, but rather the cause of so much trouble in the world today. People who are totally identified with their minds to the point that they are willing to kill for a belief system. Kali Yug, right enough.
Lokesh,
You just dont get it, do you?
1. Purity of Osho’s vision must be maintained by foot-soldiers of Osho calling for regime change.
2. Whiteskin ex-sannyasins cannot be part of the process other than to have the female of their species impregnated by brownskin veterans of Osho pumping phase (’88-’90)
3. Shantology will be remembered as the one true religion….
Amen.
Frank, maybe you’re right. Of late I’ve been considering Shantology. Do you know if it makes you ‘flu immune? Shree Shantam seems to be almost immune to everything, especially infections caused by common sense. Can you join if you are a dirty, tanned whiteskin like myself? Questions, questions, questions.
Satyadeva says:
6 August, 2012 at 2:46 pm
These include a few fine distinctions, Arpana, but perhaps as a general rule, satire always tends to ‘extract the Michael’, whereas the latter might not necessarily qualify as satire?
Fair point.
And Frank plays all the notes, including grace.
Both Fool and ill-dignified fool.
“You completely miss the point, I completely get the point.”
(Wisdom received at the feet of multiple masters).
“Every time I face the mirror, I ask why eveybody is not like me.”
(Censored sentence from the diary of a new age Advaita).
“Have you not got till now, your mind is the enemy? When you will start watching it?”, lovingly yet firmly asserts the boss.
“Watching the mind, but Sir, I think you are also not watching it?”
“Exactly, this I want to point out. Your judgemental mind”, boss lights the cigarette in desperation.
Talking more rubbish to counteract accusations of talking rubbish,
is not going to work you know.
Shantam, as far as this witnessing programme goes that you’ve been indoctrinated with I just want to let you know that is not the end of the story. Being aware of the movements of thought is good, chattering of the monkey etc. But who or what is it that witnesses and what is it that supports the witnessing? If you are aware of withessing then you are not the witness. Neti, neti, old chap.
I meet many sannyasins who are still living within the parameters set in place in Poona One: Follow your feelings, witness the mind, witness the emotions…more difficult than thought because those pesky emotions move fast etc. You will catch my transcendental drift unless you are even more stupid than I imagine. Been there, done that until I met someone that showed me where I was stuck.
Where am I now? You might well ask, but knowing that is of no use. As the old song goes…’this is a private investigation, not a public enquiry.’
Believing Osho was the master of masters is pure folly. He was into mass marketing, to put it into your vernacular. I ask you how do you even know Osho was fully enlightened in the classic eastern sense? Answer: you don’t. Osho was not the be all and end all as far as bringing people to the ultimate truth goes. There are enlightened people living in the world today, but you are unlikely to meet them, because they are usually quiet people, who experience no need to braoadcast their spiritual attainment.
Sannyas was a great and wonderful beginning, but as far as I am concerned it was not the end. End in the sense of the extinction of the flame of desire and the need to be identified as a separate entity.
I love life, yet the weight of being a me is something that one day I trust will disolve. Listening to you I wonder you don’t feel tired out with this crusade you’ve embarked on. A greater exercise in futility I cannot imagine. Even dafter than save the whales, save the snails.
It is not just in Afghanistan kind of tribal lands but in industrialised lands too, exists some kind of lynching mentality where white coloured gentleman finds it out intuitively, which gang is better equipped to protect his small compound.
The others are simply hooligans…
I won´t mind to get shot by the gang leader, but small pawn…No dear…that is real bad luck.
(Dedicated to the name Arpana. who he is really, no idea).
I have heard, the guards at the heavenly gates are instructed to check time and again the best-seller list of esoteric books.
The idea behind the idea is, ” Block those guys entering the kingdom, who are so confident about their knowledge about contemporary wisdom!”
The whole idea of the ‘higher calling’ — and realizing it — is ancient and has been defined by many wisdom traditions. The basis of it is some form of meditation (or related inner-work methods).
We can’t uncover ‘highest calling’ via…
1. Online posting (no, because we become too caught up in performing, defending an image, etc. — online posting seems best for fun, or ‘comparing notes’, i.e., evaluating where one is currently at).
2. ‘Sacred activism’ (recycling, or running for office, or campaigning on behalf of Osho regime/regime change, won’t do it).
3. Playing small — pretending to be a ‘good, surrendered sannyasin’ is long dead, and woe to any still stuck there.
4. Insisting that Osho is the un-matched master of all time. That may be true (who really knows?) but many are the sources of learning and growth. Personality-attachment is rarely good, and that applies to gurus as well. None of which negates gratitude, obviously.
5. Being afraid of sticking out. Public speaking is a renowned great fear, and is a great metaphor for fear of showing up in general. We don’t learn much about ourselves if we don’t stick our neck out in the greater sense. We have to be willing to risk looking idiotic. Fear of power was (as far as I noticed) fairly prevalent among sannyasins, perhaps because of Osho’s trenchant criticisms of power-hungry politicians.
6. The crippling view that my ‘contribution’ would be worthless or pointless anyway, so why bother? This often grips Westerners who get deeply involved in an Eastern spiritual path. The Eastern psyche is more geared toward selflessness, but the Western psyche is geared toward individualism. It can be risky, and often painful, to deny one’s genetic roots. Many Western sannyasins seemed to try too hard to fit into an Eastern ‘selfless’ mode.
Pretty good, Teertha.
Lokesh: “He was into mass marketing, to put it into your vernacular. I ask you how do you even know Osho was fully enlightened in the classic eastern sense? Answer: you don’t”.
Shantam: Atleast there is one point I can agree with, Osho into mass marketing.
Few people are born to create Walmart, Migros, Tesco etc. They are not better or worse than the corner shop owners.
Here comes the problem with personal choice of you, Lokesh. Your preferance for small vendors is so strong that it gives a sense of repulsion in you to accept that Osho has the bigger goals. He is simply not Ramana or Punja…
My point is quite simple and honest. Don´t create Lemons out of Oranges.
And whether Osho or someone else is a fully enlightend or not, is not my business, neither someone else’s. At a certain level, we operate with assumptions, that is all.
Try to assume Shri Ramana or Punja-ji are in the same league as hundreds of thousands of holy men in each and every town!
In my blog at FB I have written similar feelings months ago, ” How hilarious it will be to see a past-life Buddha born again as a shivering Tibetan child sitting before Buddha´s statue praying for his family´s well-being.”
I hope with the advancement of scientific mind, one day we will have some kind of brain mapping to see the symptoms of Enlightenment.
Whenever I get this feeling, I am or I am not, I will surely like this to be diagnosed!
Shantam says, ‘I will surely like this to be diagnosed.’ I think this is a good idea and best if you do not postpone it (it could get worse). I suggest a professional, like Professor R. Stornaway at the cult deprogramming research centre in Harvard.
From the time Osho captured the attention of western seekers, stigma of joining the cult has been raised again and again.
Now an ex-Sannyasin, perfectly whitewashed, is saying the same thing and that too on the site run and passionately supported by the disciples of “Cult Leader”. Is there any other website where Osho´s magnificent grave is the signature picture?
It simply shows lack of ethics and unawareness about the collective mind operating system.
The other day I came across a big sign on a window, ” Jesus lebt” (Jesus lives) – I wonder what any cult deprogramming research professor will dare to say about it?
Will the gentleman dare to put his salary slip on risk, when most probably some offshoot of biggest cult in the world is funding the faculty?
‘collective mind operating system’ – Gee whizz! I want one of those. If I play it at high volume will it get people dancing like crazy?
CMOS, great on a tee shirt.
It’s true SN use Osho’s “grave” as our “signature picture”. It’s surprising how many readers don’t realise this, but good on you for pointing it out.
The intention is paradoxical. Basically, at some level we want to show the inner contradiction of our site and those attracted to it.
The love of Osho is somewhere at its core (though this is frequently challenged by our adversaries) but also an awareness that love is not just born out of the blindness of the heart, but the openness of the mind and the going beyond it.
If Sannyas as a whole takes sannyasnews as its pilot project, we will be on the right track.This particular site is surely born out of Osho´s love, yet gives enough space to openness of the mind.
Diverse views expressed don´t make us enemy, where entry of question raisers should be banned at any cost, but add colours to the rainbow.
What SNews is on a virtual world, Osho Pune has all the possibility in the real sense.
Just having good time with friends, hot discussion in the hot weather and sitting silently at Osho´s Samadhi will simply add wings to the roots.
Most of the sannyasins have forgotten this joy of meditating together.
This joy can be more profound than any orgy!( I wish to go in one before I die).
Shantam, take my word for it, sex orgies are not what they are cracked up to be. In fact, you can give that one a miss and die peacefully. One woman is more than enough for most men. Those that believe otherwise just have not found the right woman. Then again, better not take my word for it and go find out for yourself.
Understanding the Mind of Sannyas leadership – what seems to be a psychological skatch of Mitt Romeny; fits quite well with Osho´s top brass…
As for what pundits say is Romney’s difficulty connecting with people, Emmett (ex-Mormon great-great-grandaughter of the founder) blames it largely on what she calls “the entitled Mormon male syndrome, where the leadership professes compassion and concern but leaves the manifestations of that to the drones. All male leadership is not this way; there are some wonderful men who do their best to exercise their power compassionately, but many do not.”
“Mitt has had people defer to him and not challenge him his entire life,” says Emmett. “In the Mormon church, if you challenge your priesthood leaders it’s a very bad thing to do, especially for women. As the world can now see, Mitt has a very hard time with being questioned and criticized; he’s had so little of this in his life.”
No wonder, all the symptoms of Cults have creeped in, what was a flowing river at Osho´s time chalking a new course every day has become a big lake.
One can also say, lakes are like cults, rivers are like mystery schools.
Eh…ehm…well, anything you say, Shantam. We all know dat you de man, man.
Yee ha.
A self proclaimed enlightened one is among us.
http://www.goddieux.com/
Is he the son of William Tell? Or maybe a reincarnation of Twaticus.
Maybe he is.
Whatever enlightenment is?
Seems as absurd to insist he isn’t as insist he is.
If he isn’t and persists, all will be revealed eventually.
If he is, he is.
Great.
What’s not to say yes to?
When I read his name my first thought was that it’s a spoof…Reading some of his stuff that impression began to change…
Still, I think using such a name is a bit silly.
He’s not even an old fogey.
He’s second generation, as it were.
If it’s true, it’s bloody terrific. Affirming.
My God, God.
You’ve got something going for yah.
Uber sannyasin has reached out to his shadow.
How amazing, and hilarious. ROTFLMAO
God dieux…Thanks, God, the nutt is not using Symbol Om or some Indian name, other than proclaiming he is from tantric Lineage from Osho.
Beauty of unorganised religious sector is like a jungle without Lion. Every animal in the high season can claim to be a Lion!
Shantam, I agree. I would find it quite an easy role to play ‘I am enlightened’…don’t know how long I could keep it up for. Biggest casualty from being a fake buddha is the faker. Thing is, I could not stoop to such a boring con game and I do not take pleasure in deciving people or deceiving myself for that matter. So much more fun things to do…DJ, big blue lover, cool cat, writer, artist, cosmic shamanic funk dancer, SN commentator, and I’m not going into my sex life. When I see that twat with an apple on his head I think ‘man, don’t the guy have nothing better to do with his life…hey! Don’t losers win at this game?’ That lad is a winner for sure! If he is the new enlightened one it don’t make no difference to anything…I mean nothing. It is very old hat these days. The secret is out…you are it. Big up to all my virtual amigos on SN.
I am God,
You are God.
The difference between you and me
is that I know I am God and you don’t.
If you recognise and accept that I am God, you recognise and accept the god in yourself.
If you deny the God in me then you deny the God in yourself.
In fact, the degree to which you deny that I am God is the measure of the distance from God-realisation that you are.
If you accept that I am God and listen to me, then you will become God yourself.
A cockney wideboy called Derek that I knew from the hippy trail taught me that when I was 19 (I guess he was a kind of Delboy Lama of his time).
he had spent a lot of time in a place where everyone wore orange, apparently.
He usually followed it with something like…
God needs to eat breakfast
Lend me some hash
Give me some money
Let me go for a walk with your girlfriend
Lend me your house etc. etc….
All hail frankgod.
We are not worthy
“God dieux…Thanks, God, the nutt is not using Symbol Om or some Indian name, other than proclaiming he is from tantric Lineage from Osho.”- It is getting really ridiculous! I know now so many enlightened Tantra linage people that makes me feel that the number of us, unenlightened, is dramatically dropping. I think we should stick together in case those enlightened ones want to awaken us in their satsang. I am getting worried about our society. The whole idea of a website to announce to asleep people that I am awakened is bizarre. Leave me alone-I just wanna carry on my sleep. Night night!
The way things are going there will soon be so many enlightened ones they will be fighting over the few who they feel need their help to awaken. I am pre-empting the sooncome and declaring my unenlightenment. I will teach how to enjoy your life so much you won’t give a hoot about the golden carrot enlightenment trip. Not only that, I will teach for free…well, at least in he beginning, until the masses get wise and become curious about the mystical unenlightened state.
I’m thinking about using the Loving Spoonful’s ‘What A Day For A Daydream’ as an anthem when I hit the big time. Any suggestions of how to bring my message to the global unconsciousness most welcome.
That’s right.
I`m declaring myself as a hard-core unenlightened nobodhisattva, too.
(anthem: “Highway to Hell”)
I absolutely refuse to enter nirvana for mine or anyone else’s enlightenment or benefit, and anyone who tries to push the issue gets a knuckle sandwich in the original face, just for starters.
Out of compassion, I would respectfully ask the famously unenlightened Caledonian, Lokesh, to head-butt the apple off this porco dio swami god guy’s nut…
If he misses a bit, it can’t be helped.
I would also suggest compulsory drug-testing for everyone declaring enlightenment…
All these wannabe gurus, satscammers and sit-down artists taking acid, E, shrooms and now the old Amazonian green sludge is like giving Usain Bolt a massive dose of crystal meth…
Just say no to enlightenment.
Frank.
That is so, ‘More unenlightened than thou’!!!!!!!
Honestly, God.
Look what you’ve done.
A veritable storm in the teacup that is Sannyas News.
I think there is a great scope for Phd thesis about the murky world of Awakening.
Spiritual seekers most sought after experience has come to this level that person claiming to be awake seems like someone with loose nuts and bolts, some borderline case.
As these people are most of the time harmless and putting forward their best feet of love and compassion, maybe that is why research institutes are not going deeper into the psychological chemical changes triggered by some kind of intense experience.
Only problem is when these harmless people start taking this experience into the competitive world of Satsang marketing, there they sound like those Indian Aurverdic bluffs who think, mixing cow urine with Fanta and the secret herb from the forest near the Ganges creates a right cure for Aids!
Satsang Explosion!
The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.
“I would also suggest compulsory drug-testing for everyone declaring enlightenment…”-spot on! the guy was in prison for drugs
Didn’t realise being busted for drugs was a barrier to enlightenment.
Thanks for that.
I reckon trying psychedelics out is par for the course. These days I see most drug-takers as people who lack imagination. I also find myself asking who or what is it that needs to get high.
Hasn’t it to do with our reward system, with Dopamine and the Dopamine receptors?
p.s.: There are 34 dependency genes, if we have 16, we always in danger of addiction. Even to have all 34 is possible.
The Dopamine is responsible for Motivation and Inspiration, too. It causes maybe the very fine line between genius and addiction.
It’s maybe a little too much: “whatever the price it will cost”, but one has to handle with it
Thanks, Chetna, for posting the above video. Now I can claim to listen to the voice of god (cannot use capital G) even though it sounds quite unimpressive. First two sentences were enough to say, guy god was in an Irish pub.
I wonder why all those sperms who are eager to shorten the period of gestation automatically get attracted to Osho, compared with another guru in the world!
The linked YouTube of the audio interview with God-dieux posted by Chetna above is extremely funny, encourage all to listen to it. Think high camp comedy crossed with the modern ‘spiritual’ trip. As a Canadian myself, the idea of an Edmontonian calling himself ‘God’ is more than amusing. Edmonton is where John deRuiter lives, probably Canada’s most renowned/notorious modern guru.
That said, it’s interesting to wonder how many of the mystics of history were versions of this guy, made legitimate simply because they were no longer part of the present time. It’s easier to venerate a dead saint than a live one, something Osho so often made light of. Many ‘great saints’ may merely have been ‘God-dieuxs’ of past ages.
Teertha,
probably about 99%
and the rest didn’t exist at all…
god…duh….
Em….errrr…hum….isn’t it about time to start a new thread?
From OSHO in The Path of Mystic: “Ananda Teertha wrote me a letter: “We have opened a meditation academy.” Devageet was there – he worked hard to find a place, to arrange the money. Devageet helped tremendously to open the academy, and he insisted that my name should be there. But no therapist was willing that even a mention of me should be made. And Teertha wrote in explanation, “We have not put your name on the academy, we have not mentioned your name anywhere, for the simple reason that your name has become dangerous. People become afraid to join the therapy group if it is your therapy.
Governments won’t allow….”
So now it is paying…they have all dropped their names, starting with “Swami” or “Ma”; they have kept just “Teertha,” “Rajen.” That too is cunning. Why not bring back your old name again? Because that old name has no prestige, and they want to ride on both horses. They want to exploit the sannyasins with their names, and they want to exploit the non-sannyasins by dropping my name and any concern with me completely from their therapy groups.
They had come to me as failures. Therapies were dying in America and Europe because people did them and found it is just a game. I made them world-famous therapists, changed the structures of their therapy, joined it with meditation, and they became the topmost therapists in the world. They had come to me as failures, bankrupt. But they have all forgotten that. Now they think that I am a danger. To be with me is no more paying; it is better to be on your own.
But they cannot leave the sannyasins either, because if you are totally on your own, no sannyasin is going to bother about you. So in advertising, they are using the red clothes; in their pictures they have malas. But in reality, they are not using red clothes, they are not using malas. What kind of cunningness…? It seems not only politicians…perhaps every human being has a certain hidden politician in him.”
Osho from The Path of Mystic “Devageet told me that he had to almost physically fight for at least putting a picture of me in the brochure because they were all putting their pictures in it. With great difficulty they agreed, and they put a very old picture so that nobody would recognize that it is my picture. And they have not put my name underneath the picture. Under their pictures, their names are there, but under my picture there is no name. And some amateur must have taken this picture; nobody can tell whose picture it is.”
Lokesh, would your full name happen to be Lokesh Rajen?
Golden Zen, what the hell is wrong with you people…what do the above 2 quotes prove ?? Osho is just being the USUAL drama queen…exagerrating, manipulating, lying…what’s new?
He tried to cunningly use the therapists…now he’s accusing them of cunningly using him! The same stupid drama as the Ranch…Pune…etc…with different groups of people…nothing new…what goes round…comes round…
His accusing them of making a quick buck ‘..any which way…they learnt well from the great ‘Master of Masters’!
Doesn’t it get through the Sannyasins’ skulls…that anything the great Master said/did should be taken with great skepticism…the man was a manipulator, fraud and a liar…the diciples…monkey see…monkey do…What’s the bloody mystery, Sherlock?