THE ORGANISERS OF OSHO
It is commonly pointed out that Osho always appointed women to the leading positions of temporal authority in his commune and organisation. Actually not quite true. He had a male secretary in the very early days before 1970, and one suspects that when Laxmi came along and made such a success of his work, that he may have imagined that anyone who followed should also be a woman.
After the fall of the Ranch in 1985 he did say he intended to have some men in positions of temporal authority, and that did begin to happen. Now two men dominate Osho International, so it is not such an open and shut case that Osho always preferred women. Ironically again, those two men are often attacked by some sannyaisns as unfit for such roles as they “did not understand Osho”!
By empowering women Osho certainly did some of them a lot of good, given many lacked confidence and felt their role in life was defined through male eyes.
On the other hand, sadly, especially from about 1978 to 1985 it seemed to go to their heads. In ordinary employment law as employers they would have had a hard time at a Tribunal. There was bullying, victimisation, and in the end criminality, and gross bad treatment and belittlement of the male.
For example everyone in the communes had to have a “Mom”. What absurdity, no real independent seeker needs a “Mom”, whether male or female. The whole point of independent spiritual life is freedom from the family, and an embrace of being on one’s own. And that’s only the beginning.
I myself don’t put so much store in any real differences between the sexes, faced with the possibility of power, both seem to behave in fascistic ways, though because women have had less opportunity there have been less female dictators.
Osho in some of what he said indicated a need for both men and women to create a deep synchronicity. Okay we missed often in the past, but as Rumi said, or something like: , “come come, even if you have failed a thousand times”. Here is Osho’s take at one point, and one I share:
“A real commune will have men and women in a deep synchronicity. All the past communes had to die because they depended only on men; they never took any care of the women. And no woman has ever been able to create a commune because she does not aspire to the stars.
A commune means an aspiration, a longing, a tremendous longing to grow, an immense urge to explore. No woman can find reasons to put down the foundation stone for a commune. Man is always interested in the far away, so he becomes the original source of communes, but no man is capable of giving roots.
And this has been the problem in the past: the woman can provide roots but she is not interested in flowers, and the man can provide flowers but he is not interested in roots. A deep synchronicity is needed, a deep harmony. That’s what I am trying to fulfill here.”
Parmartha, with thanks to Arpana.
“temporal authority”?
gosh,i havent heard that expression for a few lifetimes….
well,i knew you guys were stuck in the `80s
i just didnt realise it was the 1380s !!
Ramana Maharishi or Ramesh Balsekar, Nisargananda ji or Punji ji; J or UG Krishnamurti, allmost all the mystics have spoken about going in and watch your mind or clean your ass with left hand kind of stuff. Osho has added Commune in His most passionate voice.
Again and again he created His Commune, always better than the last time.
Thanks Life, He completed His life journey in His commune among His People, what has happened afterwads is not His headache.
Though it can be in heaven He won’t have this moral authority to punch others with: “My commune of my people is better than your churches wih your people….kind of self-congratulatory bravado”.
that’s a very good point, and well put.
but don’t forget that cleaning the ass with the left hand, like watching the mind, is major achievement of eastern enlightenment, yet gang of two whiteskin hi-jackers of of Air Jaina flight number 08H0 from here to here, also had moral authority to create, after 50 centuries of dirty left-hand meditation path methods, the ass-washing method using water-jet into the back-side, so, now no need for smelly left-hand
……..just like meditating, washing and watching the mind with the no-mind!
achievements of the communes that are always better than last time must not be over-looked by self-congratulatory paticipants of Osho’s pumping vision (88-90) who do not wash their ass or watch their mind, just like whiteskin subjects of Her Majesty using books and teachings of Ramanaji and Papaji and Oshoji like toilet paper to clean ass, but ending up with sore backside!
kipling was wrong when he said east and west would never meet.
the east/west conundrum has been solved and a deep synchronicity and synthesis has been created with the seeming opposites….
i would like to share my discoveries in this field.
the water-jet method is effective in a hot climate.
but in a cooler climate when it is neccesary to wear more clothes…
it is best
to use the left hand to wash the ass,with warm water from a jug,then finish the job by using toilet paper with the right hand,watching the mind all the while,and then washing the hands with full awareness
Have you fallen off the wagon again Frank?
Just say ‘NO’ bro.
This reminds me of coming across a xtian fundamentalist tract on line and not being able to tell if its a parody or not.
If Shantam had posted this under his own name I would have accepted his authorship of the piece without question.
Same when you do Preetam
LMAO
Like Discourse Jokes, Understood all, but at the End one specific word or phrase and didn’t get it… everybody laughed, I remained serious.
But, somebody said something about xtians? Have to be careful otherwise may get their spiritual police on the neck. Told them already often, if they allow sitting and dancing on the Altar, all will come for ceremony. Nothing wrong in it, even Agni sits on the Altar. However, Agni’s and Indra’s place now is behind, but going back there any Moment.
What about a nappy fashion show for virtuous enlightened beings of East and West, a show of truth in action, Madonna as moderator or organizer.
Frank.
Stop messin’ about.
Well Shantam you raise without knowing it a moot point.
When asked how he would have responded to the ashram as a former seeker Osho always said he would have avoided the ashram as it was then, like the plague.
After illumination he always claimed to be a “guest” of any sannyas commune he was in. So though nicely poetical to say that “He completed His life journey in His commune among His People”, not sure Osho himself would acknowledge the words “His commune”.
By the way what do all your capital letters mean. Is it because you want Osho to be treated, in a grammatical sense, like Jesus?
‘All the past communes had to die because they depended only on men; they never took any care of the women. And no woman has ever been able to create a commune because she does not aspire to the stars.’
Amazing how everyone once sat nodding their heads, listening to this and fully believing it was true without question. It is, in my eyes, utter rubbish. It is also a direct hit on those very sannyasin women who helped run the show. I know plenty of fine women who aspire to higher ground and some of them are already there. There have been plenty of successful communes before, during and after Osho’s show…and what was he aspiring to?…the latest model with bells and whistles. Just heard a story the other day about the old boy showing off a Roller to a disciple. The punchline was, ‘There are only six in the world and I own one of them.’ With all those books Osho read you think he might have read something about the Israeli settlements and how they are run as communes…and knowing a few sabre girls I’ll bet they are running the show, because those chicks are tough bagels.
So here we have a prime example of Osho making up the lines of a story as he goes along and taken in context I’m sure it all fitted together perfectly. Taken out of context it has little basis in fact and one would need to be either young and naive or else simply stupid to take it as anything to base ones world view on. Thankfully, well, at least in my case, Osho was an energetic phenomenon and not someone to take everything he said onboard as unquestionable truth. Thanks in part to Osho I think for myself and question all authorities, including wise guys.
it seems he just exagerate any concept he talk about,maybe to make it more direct and easy to understand.But he doesn’t care about facts of outside reality,and this show how he himself was without roots,pointing only to the stars….maybe that’s why he wants womans to surround him,cause he know they can do the part of the job that he was unable to do!
If you imagine someone who is brave enough to withdraw all his projections, then you get an individual who is conscious of a pretty thick shadow. Such a man has saddled himself with new problems and conflicts. He has become a serious problem to himself, as he is now unable to say that they do this or that, they are wrong, and they must be fought against. He lives in the “House of the Gathering.” Such a man knows that whatever is wrong in the world is in himself, and if he only learns to deal with his own shadow he has done something real for the world. He has succeeded in shouldering at least an infinitesimal part of the gigantic, unsolved social problems of our day.
“Psychology and Religion” (1938). In CW 11: Psychology and Religion: West and East. P.140
I can dig it. Last night, in need of something to read, I wandered into my studio and checked out my spiritual libary. There are at least a dozen Osho books there that I have, of late, been considering giving away as it is rare that I read Osho books. I came across No Water, No moon and I’ll probably read it from cover to cover, because for me tha is Osho at his very best. No dumb dirty jokes, no rambling diatribes, just right on the money Zen, where the old boy’s heart really lay.
The book kicks off with a great chapter, where at one point he goes into the drug thing in some depth. Vintage Osho and for me as relevant today as it was when I sat listening to those brilliant discourses. I can’t help wondering if he did not listen to his own wise council. That is what the mind does, wander into the past or future, never here, never now, which is where it is really at.
That which seems to be wrong“ is not true “wrong”, how can “no thing” be wrong, even our thoughts are things? It simply does not belong to the “House of the Gathering”, what is false melts within the Gold of self-realizing. It’s how I realize it, at the Moment.
Guess, through our habit of clinging, it’s easy, keeping Humanity caught with the Idea of being wrong and sinful from his roots. These are lies created through a scheme to bend humanity within negativity about himself, not finding his self-respect (re speciation) through all forms of stress, these lies brought into existence which are not part of true self. It’s Black Magic in progress.
If Humanity accepts violence furthermore as only authority, it doesn’t matter if the organizer are male or female, for sure it ends in a fascist dictatorship.
Boasting is the act of making an ostentatious speech.[1]Snip[5] Boasting has also been studied by such evolutionary psychologists as Robert Wright[6], and can involve magnifying an accomplishment out of proportion to its importance
words words words..
wise words, business words,
religious words, spiritual words
romantic words, dirty words…
Osho, i remember
with love and respect..
not because, to utter words was His business
through His sannyas..
He tried to write poetry on disciple’s hearts…
Thank you Osho
for a rare try..
(fullmoon of this month is Master’s day. In Switzerland also, it is a cloudy rainy yet warm Monsoon day )
‘He tried to write poetry on disciple’s hearts…’ Yes, tried, but being human he did not always succeed. Or did he?
Well, the Baba Roga of Osho Oregan saga was able to make a feature film to show her side of the story, but the unbiased attempt on the life of Osho by a sannyasin is still not able to see the light (http://www.oshothemovie.com/).
It took centuries to recognise the work of Hyaptia the Greek Philosopher and Mathematician and almost 1600 years to make a feature film to show how her life and work was cruelly put to an end by orthodox Christians.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agora_(film)
It’s a must see film, the scene where Hypatia is arrested and escorted by Christians resembles that of Osho being arrested and taken away by Reagan’s men.
Its the high time for Osho the movie project to be released.
I heard some time ago that Ben Kingsly will be playing Osho in a sex guru blockbuster. I seem to remember Osho saying that acting was a very spiritual profession. Playing roles. Ring a bell, anybody?
Lokesh had commented on this quote of Osho’s, taken above from Parmartha’s opening piece:
***
“A real commune will have men and women in a deep synchronicity. All the past communes had to die because they depended only on men; they never took any care of the women. And no woman has ever been able to create a commune because she does not aspire to the stars.
A commune means an aspiration, a longing, a tremendous longing to grow, an immense urge to explore. No woman can find reasons to put down the foundation stone for a commune. Man is always interested in the far away, so he becomes the original source of communes, but no man is capable of giving roots.
And this has been the problem in the past: the woman can provide roots but she is not interested in flowers, and the man can provide flowers but he is not interested in roots. A deep synchronicity is needed, a deep harmony. That’s what I am trying to fulfill here.”
***
This is an interesting example of how Osho’s vision and understanding of things may have been influenced by Gurdjieff, here speaking to his disciple Fritz Peters:
***
“The nature of a woman is very different from that of a man. The woman is from the ground, and the only hope for her to arise to another stage of development—to go to heaven as you would say—is with a man. A woman already knows everything, but such knowledge is of no use to her, and in fact can almost be like a poison to her, unless she has a man with her. Men have one thing that does not exist in women, ever: what is called “aspiration”. In life, a man uses this one thing—this aspiration—for many things, which are all wrong for his life, but he must nevertheless use it because he has such a need. Men—not women—climb mountains, go under oceans, fly in the air, because he must do such things. It is impossible for him not to do these things, he cannot resist this. Look at life around you: men write music, men paint pictures, write books, and such things. It’s his way, he thinks, to find heaven for himself.
It is not necessary for a woman to do the work of a man in the world. If a woman can find a real man, then the woman becomes a real woman without the necessity of the inner work. But, like I tell you, the world is mixed up. Today in the world real men do not exist, so women try to become men, and to do men’s work, which is wrong for her nature.”
[Fritz Peters, Boyhood with Gurdjieff (Fairfax: Arete Communications, 2006), pp. 136-137].
***
What’s interesting about comparing the two quotes is how both agree on the tendency of women to lack a visionary quality, but Osho adds something that G. appears not to, that being that a woman provides a crucial element (‘providing roots’). Gurdjieff more left it that a woman will be fine as long as she is with a ‘real man’. The irony there is that his women students appeared to accomplish much inner work with him, and were more consistent (and certainly loyal) if the records are to be believed. When he died, one of them (Jeanne de Salzmann) became his chief disciple and carried on his work successfully for another forty years.
Good post, Teertha. I think it important to remind oneself that the times have changed. As the song goes, sisters are doing it for themselves. Was Osho, like gurdieff, a macho at heart?
That’s an interesting question in itself. The common view has been that Osho was rather ‘feminized’, that is, he had a profound grasp of relationship, was body-oriented, had a marked aesthetic nature, installed mainly women into his important administrative posts, etc. (Though it was interesting to note, from Parmartha’s opening piece, that Osho’s first secretary was actually male — I for one was unaware of that). Yet clearly his masculine qualities were also well developed, especially when his boyhood days are considered (leading gangs, jumping off dangerously high bridges, being generally aggressive and confrontational, etc.). In the end, I think Osho’s ‘feminization’ was exaggerated. I think the main reason he installed women into the key administrative posts was out of common sense, that being that his women disciples (with the exception of a few players, mainly Sheela and cronies) were simply more loyal. His key male disciples, like Paul Lowe (Teertha — not me, the other guy) and Michael Barnett (Somendra), left him to set themselves up as gurus, something Osho denounced in both cases.
This was all, again, paralleled by Gurdjieff, whose key male disciples — Ouspensky, A.R. Orage, and John Bennett — all failed him in different ways.
All this throws an interesting light on the old traditions, for example, Buddha and Jesus. Buddha’s disciples of note, as recorded by history, are mostly all men. Same with Jesus. One wonders how many significant women disciples these two actually had whose names simply never made it into the history books.
I have always assumed this was in part, a primary way of confronting everybody, all of us, the world, ‘religion’, the status quo.
What is common between Syria’s Assad, Russia’s
Putin, North Korea’s fat boy and Osho Pune’s Jayesh?
All these gentlemen treat great nations and organisations as their private property.
What is their opinion about Meritocracy?
Very clear. “my friends, relatives and cronies are full with meritocracy. rest of all are mediocres.”
When they want to relinqish their post?
Don’t ask. only God(existance) knows.
Where do you view yourself in the ‘great scheme of things’ then, Shantam?
Would you present yourself as worthy of such great office? You know, a thoroughly deserving case, meritocratically speaking?
Or are you yourself just another ‘mediocrity’?!
Nag, Nag, Nag and Why It’s a Waste of Time
Nagging isn’t going to get you what you want.
Published on July 21, 2010 by Barton Goldsmith, Ph.D. in Emotional Fitness
Why Nagging Doesn’t Work
Some people mistakenly feel that, when they don’t get what they want, it is perfectly acceptable to nag, annoy, harass, and basically pester their partner (or whomever) to death in order to get their needs met.
Where is it written that hammering on someone is going to help you get what you want or need? How do you think all that haranguing and pushing is going to make the other person feel? Truth is that if you’ve said something to a person three times, they have heard it, and if they continue to do what you don’t want or to do nothing, you are officially being ignored. Your yelling, pleading, or whatever isn’t ever going to work. But there are some things that both people can do to heal and rearrange this dysfunctional dynamic.
First, you must deal with the nagging person’s issues. If your emotional needs aren’t being met, it hurts-plain and simple. Emotional pain can propel us to say and do things we ordinarily would consider inappropriate, but our feelings tend to bypass the lessons taught by Miss Manners, and we just go for the gusto (or the throat), and mistakenly believe that getting loud or being repetitive will help us get through to the person whose attention we want.
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Fifteen Tips to Avoid Nagging.
Video: Stop the Nagging. You’ll Be Happier!
9 Tips to Quit Nagging
Look, everyone needs to be reasonable here and remember that anyone who is approaching a conversation as though it were a cage-fighting match is never going to win. In truth, when engaged in a dialogue, the first person who gets mad loses. Keeping control of yourself also allows you to keep control of the situation.
Being on the receiving end of a champion-level haranguer is right up there with getting a root canal. So, learning to defuse a difficult dialogue is an important skill to master. My least favorite and most-employed technique is using the power of two feet to walk away. It’s better than being verbally beaten down, but you will have to deal with this person again, and he or she will be armed and ready next time. If it seems like you are being held hostage, there may be a good reason for feeling that way.
To really make a permanent change in this kind of communication conundrum, the person who is being relentless has to actually see his or her behavior. Some therapists actually videotape clients in session, so they can see how damaging hurtful and manipulative behaviors and harsh words can be.
Using something as simple as the video camera on your phone can help your partner see that his or her behavior is inappropriate. It really is a wake-up call for most people to see themselves act out with a loved one. It’s best to first agree that it’s okay to record your partner, and then let him or her watch it after calming down. (Just don’t put it on YouTube!)
Hopefully you can avoid or eliminate this behavior completely. I’m sure it’s obvious how much better both your lives will be without it.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/emotional-fitness/201007/nag-nag-nag-and-why-its-waste-time
If you had developed a hint of personal awareness during your wasted years with Osho, Shantam, wasted years fixated on the other, you would have noticed, nag that you are, that people nag you as much collectively, as you nag everyone here on your own, and further to that I have upped the game and am nagging you about your nagging.
Arpana, before i answer your query addressed to me, it is important to see your face photo at least. This will help to write tailor-made answer for you.
Answers are like bra, and there is not a single one which fits to all the busts.
look ..I don’t even know whether you are bra type or boxer type. Arpana is basically name for the Ma’s!
To call voice of issue-based protest as nagging; you may fit quite well into the job of trigger puller in any of the above-mentioned regimes.
Problem seems to be, Shantam, that you don’t appear to have any conception of how utterly boring are your repetitive posts on this single issue.
I mean, how often do you receive a response other than one that basically tells you you’re wasting your time?
Attempts to manipulate me by calling me names wont work any more than the nagging will.
Satyadeva, i can change issue.
Would you be kind enough to discuss whether your spiritual mentor wears sleeveless blouse with her Sarees or arms are always covered?
Also is there some possibilty that spoiled bikini babes and saree clad south Indian devis travel in the same compartment on the way to Nirvana?
Another slice of your time wasted, Shantam.
(You appear to be rather good at that, if nothing else!).
One does not need to talk or discuss about inner experiences, they are more personal in nature than the intimacy on the bed.
But…but…Shantam, I thought you were a virgin and a Madonna fan.
Thought we’d moved on from that fighting and fucking period.
Obviously not everywhere.
Zen the path of paradox
still floats my boat. Top book.
Communes all fail eventually we’re just not that good at them long term.
No such thing as utopia. The minute you have defined one in words it’s shit. Then comes committee meetings. Later it closes down.
Osho never belonged to a commune although he wasn’t against being an honoured guest in one.
Frank.
So this is your sannyas name.
It’s my name
Swami Prem Ananto. [via Dhanyam in California]
Not Frank in disguise, honest.
I’m the fortune teller.
Called Pete for civilian life.
Thought I knew who Frank was too, but having read through posts this one is a DJ in Ibiza, the one I know does TV now and then and was a stand-up comedian.
I am 60 though, as is Frank, according to his posts.
I live in England.
HTH
Well you know what they say ‘not Frank’
If you can fake sincerity you’ve got it made,
and if anyone can fake sincerity, it’s Frank..
All the best.