Sheela’s ex-husband Jayananda writes in reply to the string created earlier around questions he answered in SannyasNews. at
http://sannyasnews.org/now/archives/1899
He says as a preface I cherish the time I spent with Osho, at the Ranch, and my continued association with sannyasins…
He then goes on:
“There does not seem to be any follow up questions to my answers on the previous string, so I will make some explanatory comments on that string.
My “no” on question 5 related to whether or not Sheela had any previous experience as an executive. She did not. Would it have been better if she had? Hard to say, Sheela, acting as a funnel for Osho’s directions – there was a lot to be desired, as I believe I pointed out. She did not present clearly the facts or the alternatives possible to Osho, but manipulated both the input and the output. She would present information in such a way as to gain the response she wanted from him.
I was a commercial banker not an investment banker.
I was very shaken up in Koh Samui in 85. Sheela wanted to bump me off from 84. Why?? It was after I refused to help her kill anyone.
I knew a lot of what she had organized as far as dirty tricks go, and I did not want to be a witness to these in the state and federal courts. It could only hurt the commune and Osho’s reputation, and while I had little jeopardy, I would have had to spend years in Oregon in court at my expense and jeopardy.
I left the ranch in late 85 after returning from Germany where I had been sent earlier in 85 by Sheela, ostensibly to be killed there. I was called back by the commune to represent it in two court cases that were happening. At the same time the US had OSHO in prison and we were trying to get him out. Look at Niren’s brief on this when it gets posted.
Sheela was talked out of bumping me off by Patipada on the way to Europe where she was organizing a strategy for leaving the Ranch, and to set up operations in Katmandu, Nepal..
Back to my story, I had been subpoenaed to appear in the Grand Jury in the Dallas in late1985, who were investigating the dirty tricks at the Ranch. But on the day I was to appear it snowed several feet and the Grand Jury was cancelled. Legally I therefore had to be re-subpoenaed to be required to appear. I skipped out the rear of the Ranch in a 4 wheel drive and went to the commune hotel in Portland. The FBI was at the reception desk at the Ranch when I left, looking for me and at the hotel, when I left to go to California and on to Thailand. I was not a happy camper in Koh Samui in 85.
4 years latter the FBI came to Thailand looking for me, and later arraigned me in New Jersey while I was visiting my parents. At that time they were only interested in Sheela’s involvement with Charles Turner( the AG she wanted to murder) and they debriefed me on this in Portland for 3 days.
.
As my grandfather use to say talk is cheap, whiskey cost money. Pay your dues and try a little awareness.
Posters would be well served if they take a look at David Bohn, discourses on Dialogue. He, J. Krishnamurti and Albert Einstein evolved this approach to discussions during their many talks on Theoretical Physics and life. Ideas spring from a sharing of impressions rather than a bout of egos wanting to be heard and be acknowledged.
http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/chaos-complexity……/dialogue.pdf
Good job. I have reread this several times and there was/is a Magazine article where he and Krishnamurti trashed out their reasons for and the value of Dialogue.
By god.
Doesn’t all this say so singularly we need the summer sun of Osho to grow, and the cold winter, it seems at times, of each other.
I’ve just made a personal leap in expressing something for myself, something I’ve understood., but not managed to articulate.
Sorry if it sounds like ballocks.
Cant express it any better at the moment.
Fantastic you are still with it.
well,don`t forget,it is a matter of record that despite all the much vaunted enlightened dialogue,bohm and krishnamurti finally fell out with each other and never resolved.
and that was just about philosophy!
just a philosophical disgreement….no one even got poisoned,threatened,intimidated,stole or ended up on the run or in jail etc at all!
talk is cheap,whisky costs money,i guess…
“talk is cheap,whisky costs money”
yeah,my grandad said that too..he was an alcoholic.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz…..
All the meditations, all the prayer is in vain as long as will to power is there.
More unworthy is the person to have a commanding position, more brutal and paranoid he/she may become.
Let it remain in the history, after Rajneeshpuram fiasco, Osho did not put all the eggs in one basket. Many, many people were given small, small responsibilites to play important.
Whether in the past or now , if anybody claims to have clear-cut understanding about Osho`s work, that person is simply befooling oneself and others.
That’s right Shantam, and please don’t forget to include yourself in that observation.
Many dictators small and large use this ploy – kill or be killed. Very common now in African conflicts. I come across in my professional work people who were even as children given such an ultimatum.
Jayananda’s case was even more acute, because if he was like some of Sheela’s elite he was told that Osho was somehow testing their discipleship.
I think that Jay needs great praise, for at least seeing through his wife, and realising her manipulaton of Osho, and refusing to become other than a human being which has to be the first call for a disciple. This is why I dislike devotional, rather than disciple attitudes. Devotional attitudes can lead to such mad behaviours, both in religion and politics.
Jay must have known by that time his wife had become deranged and could issue an edict on him. I still find it remarkable that many of these characters remained in the game, and just did not disappear form the Ranch and everything to do with that commune. But when something has been one’s whole life for some years then it can be difficult. Look how many prisoners collapse when they leave prison and just look for ways to return.
Posting for Jayananada
I think it very worth while to represent my experience of the events from 79 to 1985 which I witnessed. I don’t believe it is the only story as Osho had a lot of different stories going on at the same time…
I sometimes marvel at how the story appeared to so many of us in such different forms. Much like the blind touching an Elephant and trying to describe it. The one touching the foot thought it to be a tree like shape, the trunk =a snake, the ear a large leaf. and so on……
Again his message, awareness and presence.
I am not Sheela’s husband. We were married by a Airplane Captain on the way to Pune in 80. Over Turkey I recall. We registered the marriage in the Dallas, USA in 81-82. We were rather informally remarried in 84 –
after a separation as many of you witnessed when I was removed from my many roles at the Ranch – VP of the investment corp, Head of the Peace force etc – then Sheela demanded a reunion. This at the same time as she had formally divorced me in Nepal! In the fall of 85 I went at the request of someone very high to Nepal to challenge that divorce, so that Sheela could be brought back to the USA, and this for various reasons – including getting back monies she had left the Ranch with .
Bipo her new Swiss husband who she had married in Mexico at the same in 84 made her a Swiss citizen, and thus immune to deportation to the USA, if she resided in Switzerland, which she still does. (seems to be a fortunate choice for her given the circumstances at the time.)
Bipo was very gay and proud of it. He died of AIDS in the middle 90′s in Thailand. We met in Malaysia and I visited him in Bangkok on several occasions, and had very frank discussions about the events in Europe after Sheela arrived there immediately after leaving the Ranch, what happened in Germany, and also whilst she was in Prison in the USA. Therefore, whether I was ever legally married to her has never been tested. The US government tried to extradite her again from Europe on fresh charges (after her initial incarceration), but they never tried to void the marriage to Bipo on the grounds of bigamy – thus erasing her Swiss citizenship and the protection she gained thereby from deportation.
Nowhere Sheela`s Leela has been explored more deeply as on this site: the site for sannyas bleeding hearts.
One thing remarkable has grown into Osho`sannyas: the sense of not feeling any remorse.
Whether it was past or Present; most of the top functionaries have worked with this great quality: remorseless spiritual managers, who think others are classless masses.
Nagging
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Nagging is a form of pestering, or otherwise reminding an individual of previously discussed dictates or advice, usually from a perspective of superiority. The word is derived from the Scandinavian nagga, which means “to gnaw”.
Social nagging
Psychotherapists such as Edward S. Dean have reported that individuals who nag are often “weak, insecure, and fearful … their nagging disguises a basic feeling of weakness and provides an illusion of power and superiority”.
Nagging is sometimes used by spouses of alcoholics as one of several “drinking control efforts”, but it is often unproductive. Psychologically, nagging can act to reinforce behavior. It was found in a study by the University of Florida that the main factors that lead a person to nag are differences in “gender, social distance, and social status and power”.
Nagging can be found between both male and female spouses, though usually over different subjects. The husbands’ nagging usually involves them finding “fault with their dinner, with the household bills [and] with the children”, along with them “carry[ing] home the worries of business.”
Greetings all,
I been reading on the sidelines various discussions here and wanted to jump in, I am a laterday Sannyasin (through mail 1994) had a ceremony at local center.
First off and I hope this is in proper context (I did a search to see if it has been discussed and nothing came up)
I was curious if the criminal court testimony by Ava Avalos (Ma Ava) has been brought up here at all wherein Osho says; “It may be necessary to kill people to stay in Oregon” on a cassette Sheela played to the ‘Hit Team”
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/73907-ava-avalos-trial-testimony.html#document/p53/a14420
cheers
paganidiot
This is new to me.
I am not in a position to tell this is true or not.
No one here is.
You may get opinions about the matter, but only that.
Arpana,
Ava Ma did in fact give the testimony as a plea bargain to save her ass, and if it was ever found out she had lied at all, she would be prosecuted and spend time in prison, so I believe she said this during the testimony. However, I am not sure if Sheela pushed a certain interpretation of that tape or not…
cheers
Ava was much younger than the other 38 conspirators that Sheela formed in the Spring of 1985. (Around 20 years of age). A Court case had gone against the Ranch at that time, (the Helen Burns case, cant remember the name exactly). Burns had lent the Ranch a lot of bread in 1982, and wanted it back. Sheela argued it had been a gift. But the court case went against Sheela, and the money had to be repaid, and there were extremely large court costs as I remember.
After that Sheela began to form hit squads, etc and became fully psychotic.
As Jayananda says Sheela was an expert in manipulating Osho and what he said to benefit her own agenda.
The so-called Hitler tape was hardly audible, and was transcribed as Sheela wanted it to be. It’s possible the whole business of a tape was a fabrication to gain the loyalty of the conspirators, or a tape mix of Osho talks, conflated together to match what Sheela wanted him to have said. There were certainly technicians on the Ranch who could do that at the time.
Ava who was very young and turned queen’s evidence as they say in the UK. She simply said anything to get all the conspirators into trouble, as she certainly did not want to throw her young life away and spend the rest of it in prison, which prosecutors would have told her, and as per normal procedure in such cases they were targeting the weakest link in the conspiracy, to gain evidence.
I dont know what ever happened to her? Does anyone else? I wonder at a distance what sort of thing she would say now?
Parmartha,
Here’s her Facebook page, believe it or not. Why don’t you invite her for an interview?
http://www.facebook.com/ava.avalos.3?sk=wall
cheers
I have read Ava’s testimony, I don’t think she just said anything to get all the conspirators into trouble, her testimony correlates with other testimony that was given by other, older sannyasins who were involved.
She gave testimony in federal court with some pretty rigid repercussions if she was later found out to be lying.
cheers
Pagan, thanks.
Ava was a close friend of Sheela in particular. I would think the main point of her testimony was to open up the possibility for the Court that Sheela and gang, including Ava, were like Eichmann, just following orders. It’s a poor defence but there you go. Jayananda refused this line and showed his common sense, and also had the advantage of knowing Sheela’s darker side, and refused to participate in any homicide plans and presumably saw through any justifications or tapes of Sheela. This made him a target himself, as he points out in his text above.
You are right that others in Sheela’s gang gave testimony to the same Court as Ava, but all of them had a great deal at stake, as did Ava, in making it look like they were simply following orders so they would all confirm the significance of the tape at that meeting, and say they believed the indications came from Osho.
Of course, long testimony was also received from the Hollywood set, but none of them mention the tape, etc.
And where is the tape now? With the FBI? Has anyone listened to it and examined it from that day to this? Or was it in fact destroyed more or less immediately after it had done its job for Sheela? My bet is the latter.
I myself believe that Sheela co-created the tape, she had a couple of real whizzkids in the gang, technology-wise, and I believe spliced bits and pieces of stuff Osho had said in different lectures together, and then covered it with hiss. Sheela and company then had it transcribed to say what they wanted the wider gang to hear, so they came as it were onside.
What Ava said does not mean she was lying. A tape was produced, she was twenty, and she is saying that the transcription as presented by Sheela said something like if the commune were to stay in Oregon then homicide was in ambit. However, staying in Oregon was Sheela’s agenda, as soon as the old man said he wanted out she knew she was finished. I never got the impression that Osho wanted to stay particularly in the USA at any time he was there, but went along with Sheela’s plans – as he also failed to read her character.
As for Ava, I know at the time it was thought that she had also somehow betrayed some of the other conspirators, and in so doing saved her own skin. However, this may or may not be the case, I have only read a couple of transcripts from all the various testimonies, though you appear to have done so. You also appear to be American, and therefore will know how the American justice system works, whilst the English system that I know is rather different.
I will look at Ava’s facebook page!
I can’t help feeling that always likening Sheela and her gang to the Nazis (“Ava, like Eichmann, was following orders”) shows the same kind of inflated mentality that ranch sannyasins showed at that time…likening the locals to Nazis, and sannyasins, presumably, as heroes of some sort of spiritual maquis of super-consciousness…
Well…you have to admit Sheela’s body-count really wasn’t in the same league as the Nazis’…
And the only gas chamber on the ranch was Osho`s!
That reminds me:
I was walking through a car park the other day.
A guy came back to his car just as the parking officer was ticketing him. The car owner pleaded with him and when the officer remained unmoved, the victim lost his temper and started mouthing off at him, f…ing and blinding etc…
The parking guy insisted:
“Look, i`m just doing my job”.
The car-owner, by this time very agitated, shouted at him:
“Yeah,right, that`s what Adolf Hitler said, you f….ing cunt….”
Frankie I was a commune sannyasin at the time, I actually thought that the residents of Antelope were being very badly treated from whenever S wanted to take them over and said so. That may explain why me and others like me didn’t end up in that room with Sheela in April, 1985, being recruited to her Hit Teams with phoney tapes of Osho.
On fascism, personally I am keen that the family, the work organisation and relationships that happen in it, and not just the apparatus of states need to be included in the term because of its force.
Many don’t realise that the politics of some families are fascist and members get bullied mercilessly. Many in asylums have been “murdered”, but left in their bodies but never recover. Madness to me is the reaction of the psyche to the permanent and persistent state of double bind. In work organisations, even in a place like the UK, bullying is rife and the same pattern of double binds etc. used by fascists are employed.
You don’t have to be physically murdered to have your life taken away.
Its being trapped between fight and flight is it not.
This I know.
PTSD is connected to being trapped between fight or flight for a long spell.
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder is a difficult diagnosis and professionals often disagree about it.
Sadly UK Courts also disagree and mistrust the diagnosis, and throw out some who have “suffered” torture and worse in their countries of origin. There are a number of cases where asylum seekers who have been tortured have been sent back to be re-tortured in their country of origin, cos of mistakes about PTSD.
The definitions fo PTSD differ between professions, for example psychiatrists, psychologists and social workers all seem to have somewhat different definitions, though it is a “medical” diagnosis first and foremost.
Professionals discussing PTDD are as likely to have ego investment in their opinions as anyone else I guess.
(._.)
Frank.
Excellent point, and beautifully illustrated, in the manner to which we are accustomed, with your exquisitely wrought vignette about parking and f*****G C***S,
but it’s not unusual for people who are new to anything to start seeing themselves as part of an elite.
Joiners of art classes, walking clubs. Bands. It’s human; and some people grow out of it and some don’t.
Indeed, there were other testimonies from members of Sheela’s gang given to the same court (in 1995 ) as Ava’s, but as Max Brecher pointed out in his book on the Ranch, ‘A Passage to America‘, two of the other witnesses of the tape, KD and Yogini, came out and gave different versions, on the same day, of what Osho said on the tape. While KD’s said “it may be necessary to kill people to stay in Oregon”, (Ava had stated the gist of the tape was “It would be necessary to kill people to stay in Oregon” – yet she claimed not to have listened to the tape but had been given a transcript to read). Meanwhile, Yogini came out later and told the court , “Bhagwan told Sheela if one person – if just one person had killed Hitler, then six million people would be alive now.”
Shame about that American Civil War .
All those people killed.
History now of course but nevertheless still a shame.
Coming next week…
Labour market effects of the Black Death in late medieval Europe.
Can hardly wait.
Many generations make the same mistakes as their forbears. Tyranny seems to pop up all over. The study of history keeps free men from becoming sleepy. Of course it involves some intellectual “work” and sadly many mentalities, not just hippies, find this somehow unappealing.
There are still many public health hazards for example today brought about through infection, etc. At the time of the Black Death no-one realised it was carried by rats to humans…. thank goodness some perceptive and alert scientists pursued the cause, such that many people lived through public health measures in future generations.
Please throw us unfortunates a rope Ananto…
we are the lowest of the low
cheers
Just so readers know the full story about Ava I detail verbatim what she said to the Grand Jury in late 1985, and as can be seen through the records (placed after 25 years by the Oregonian newspaper on the internet last year.)
On pages 92, 93 and 94, Ava states:
“I participated in poisoning Devaraj numerous times, who was Osho’s physician. I participated in poisoning attempts on Vivek, who was Osho’s assistant, a number of times. I participated in poisoning Judge Hull. I participated in salmonella poisoning of the Dalles.
I participated in falsifying medical records in relation to the Share a Home project, and knew about Haldol being given them without their knowledge.
I participated in, I guess you would call it kidnapping and drugging of the participant during the Share a Home Project called Felton Walker.
I participated in the arson of the City Planner’s Office and Attorney’s Office.
I participated in attempted murder, an attempt on Savita’s life.
I knew about the attempt to kill Devaraj at the celebration.
I knew about the Election Fraud attempt in the Wasco Count Election. I participated in the plot to kill Charles Turner.
I participated in an attempt to break into the Oregonian newspaper and destroy evidence.
I participated in the illegal wiretapping that occurred on the Ranch.
Previously, an attorney hired by the commune, a Mr Hawk, had negotiated an immunity agreement for Ava with the US government. This is stated on page 78. As part of that immunity agreement Ava says:
“I promise to tell everything that I knew about everything that had happened as accurately as I could.
She then goes on to say that from the US govt’s side that as long as she did not lie or misrepresent information then she would not be prosecuted for the said crimes.
Not a bad deal for Ava one might say, and also a deal negotiated with the help of a commune hired lawyer, from a commune she clearly betrayed. Nonetheless, as someone only 20 at the time, I do feel she had some defence of being misled and dominated by Sheela and company.
My God, reading that list of crimes is a bit shocking, even though I suppose I’ve heard of them all before.
What an absolute debacle, what an indictment of the ‘cultish’ mentality!
And yes, Sheela must have been in a psychotic state – she (and others) are just so very fortunate to have got off so lightly.
and can you imagine that person now has a facebook.. with family pics and all that….?
go figure
she`s not bad looking,mind,and she`s got a good job with the world health organisation,plenty of lucre,and she likes dancing….mm…i might just ask her out next time i`m in botswana…..
i can just imagine getting back to her place after a good night of salsa at a local club….. she pours me a drink,passes it to me and whispers “why dont you slip into something more comfortable “…..like ….a coma….
ha ha…
I agree Satyadeva. These people were very lucky and could have gone to prison for much longer periods.
I am sure Ava was “clever”, as many said at the end of the Ranch, by turning state’s evidence.
She ensured she would have a “life” – and Pagan seems to think he has found this Ava on facebook, and indicates she has a good life. Meanwhile, she ratted on all her old cronies, some of whom served light prison sentences, but she herself never saw the inside of a prison cell, even for a single night!
I never really understood why Sheela, Sue, Savita etc. and the like got what in the USA were really quite light sentences…Maybe the conventional view held sway in the Courts that they were actually taking the rap for their Master…a view which I feel is completely nuts, given the evidence now available through these transcripts.
I remember Ava from the Ranch. Oddly, my memory of her is from a time when I was having a heated argument with Patipada. This was July of ’84, just after the summer festival. (I had done something rebellious, and Patipada wanted me to leave the Ranch. I refused, and eventually they relented). That was a very intense time, I was told, because these 21 people had just been declared ‘enlightened’ by Osho (which later turned out to be a joke), and there was some renewed effort to get rid of troublemakers — or something like that.
As for the light sentences, I think that connects up with Charles Turner’s declaration that the main intent from the beginning was to destroy the commune and get Osho out of the country. Once done, they were inclined to be lenient with female henchmen that they saw, doubtless coloured by their Christian filters, as mere pawns of the Devil. I don’t think for a moment that the authorities believed Osho’s position that he was unaware of Sheela’s crimes.
Perhaps they were promised light (or no) sentences if they told all, in the hope of getting something incriminating on Osho.
Parmartha,
Oh it’s her in fact…
check it out:
http://www.oregonlive.com/rajneesh/index.ssf/where_are_they_now.html
frank…look through all her photos on FB and then tell me she’s still
cheers all
Parmartha said:
‘Nonetheless, as someone only 20 at the time, I do feel she had some defence of being misled and dominated by Sheela and company.’ (I AGREE, BY THE WAY. )
Can you imagine how incensed your average 20 year-old would be at the suggestion that he or she could be controlled and played like that by older people?
LOL
I know that people as far apart as Lokesh and Shantam feel that the Sheela story is just so much old hat and should be buried in the Sahara of history.
I disagree, I don’t feel lessons have been learned about it by many, and don’t feel that the story has ever really been told except here on SN, and also more alarmingly, many are in denial that somehow or other a set of circumstances arose that we shared a commune with such a gang and sometimes the bedrooms of the conspirators.
I mean, as SD says, when one looks at the crimes that Ava admitted to under oath, we were being taken along a road in 1984/5 which was perilously close to National Guard intervention and then, who knows, we might not even be here, had the old man not just suddenly up and left.
Brighter the light. Deeper the shadows.