Osho and the Beedi Baba

The Beedi Baba

One day in Pune one Osho  asked
 two disciples to visit the Beedi Baba.  (Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj).  He lived in the Bombay back streets over his tobacco shop. He taught advaita there, and some westerners had also begun to go and see him. This followed the 1973 publication of   a book, called “I am That” which was a brilliant translation by Maruice Frydman of Maharaj’s satsang talks in a crowded room above his shop.    Whether Maharaj smoked Beedi’s all the time when he wasn’t talking, well, I was never there. Osho seemed to think so.
The two disciples, were requested to rendezvous with Vivek 
in front of Lao Tzu house so they could obtain directions. They found his shop easily enough when they got to Bombay.

“Smoke?” he asked.  
They nodded 
“American?” he asked
, again assent. 
All sat in the smoking area. Silence descended for some time. one of the disciples later said it was like  “The silence of another dimension” . After a while Maharaj stirred and left,  as did they.  As one said later “what transpired 
remains 
a mystery”.

Not surprisingly, as Osho clearly had some regard or interest in Maharaj, in that he sent two disciples there,  Osho was typically scathing in his public comment. For example:

“There is a man in Bombay, Nisargadatta Maharaj. Nobody knew this big name; he was known to the masses as “Beedie Baba” because he was continuously smoking beedies. You can find such in every village such kinds of beedie babas. I think India has seven hundred thousand villages and each village must have at least one; more is possible. And Amrito wrote a few days ago to me, because another young Dutchman became very much involved with Beedie Baba…
The man seems to be very sincere, but the trouble is that the people who come from the West have a very childlike heart, very trusting, and they are unaware that in India spirituality is just a routine. Everybody talks about great things and their lives are as ugly as possible. When Beedie Baba said that he would speak only to this young Dutchman, naturally his ego must have felt tremendously vast.
The crowd that surrounded Beedie Baba was also of the same quality… rickshaw wallahs waiting for their passengers, sitting by the side of Beedie Baba. And when he said he would not speak to anybody unless it was this Dutchman… So he spoke to the Dutchman, who has now compiled books on Beedie Baba.
Now in India it is almost parrot-like, but to the Westerner it seems to be a tremendous revelation — when Beedie Baba said, “Aham brahmasmi; I am God, I am that” the young Dutchman immediately wrote a book: I AM THAT! Because for the West, spirituality is a foreign affair, just as for the East, science is a foreign affair.”
So there you have it, Osho in paradoxical form.  I have read “I am That”. It is a great book. Maybe Osho had also read it and sensed something…   As someone once said you can hold that book in your hand, and still get transmission after only reading a few paragraphs.  To me it is a miracle, because Maharaj had absolutely no formal education, and yet felt at home , as we would say in the west, with this high level of spiritual discourse. And one more thing, Maharaj lived until 84, so did he really smoke that much. I doubt it.

Anyone care to comment, especially if you were around this story, or met Maharaj.

Parmartha

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67 Responses to Osho and the Beedi Baba

  1. Prem says:

    Don’t know much about Beedi Baba, but I think we need to look at Osho’s comment as a general comment on many Indians who can talk on Advaita as much as Beedi baba or even more, but still they are far from experiencing it. And many westreners who are gullible and follow false gurus /paths because of their ignorance and innocence.

  2. Prem says:

    Here is what Beedi baba has to say about Osho..
    http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/advaita-vedanta/509633-nisargadatta-maharaj-talks-about-osho.html

    As I heard from a friend, Masters are teamed up to work on the seekers. Osho talking not so good about beed baba, sending western sannyasins to him, then Beedi Baba talking so good about Osho seems like a good team work of Masters.
    And by the way, what is the point of posting this thread? Are you also teamed up with them or what? Or are you really curious and ignorant?

    • Parmartha says:

      Here is what Maharaj said about Osho ( in response
      to a question about him from an Osho disciple), from ” Consciousness and the
      Absolute: ”

      Chapter Sixty One. June Nine, 1981.

      Rajneesh is not a small personality or small principal.
      He is tremendous.
      He is very big.
      He is a great sage.
      But – When you already have a guru,
      why do you visit other sages?

      Since you already have a great sage as your guru,
      you should not sit here or come here.

      I do not like these shiftings from gurus to gurus.
      I do not like wanderers.
      What is the difference between Maharaj and Rajneesh?
      Once you remove the letters, the names,
      what is the difference?
      You investigate that wanderer’s, I,
      before you investigate others.
      What is the product,
      after you remove its name?
      What are you,
      without the name or the label?
      You investigate the investigator,
      investigate ” I Am ” .
      Before you take up the assignment of inquiring about others,
      inquire about yourself first,
      and see if you are real or unreal.

  3. Parmartha says:

    Osho had the whole thing about Maurice Frydman, the translator of Nisargadatta wrong. He was actually a Polish Jew who was a refugee from due to be nazified Poland, and not a Dutchman and arrived in India in the late thirties.
    He lived a multifacetd life as a refugee in India, firstly living at the ashram of Gandhi and then took an active part in India’s fight for independence—notably in helping to draft a new constitution for the State of Aundh that became the Aundh Experiment.
    Frydman also used his engineering skills to create several new types of spinning wheels for Gandhi, which piqued his interest in finding the most efficient and economical spinning wheel for India.
    He was close to Nehru, and was also associated in the 40′s with Sri Ramana Maharshi and J. Krishnamurti.
    A longtime friend to Nisargadatta, who considered him a Jnani, Maurice Frydman died in 1976 in India, with Sri Nisargadatta by his bedside.
    Osho was also wrong about private audiences with Nisgardatta associated with “I am That”. They were public talks.
    Many consider the book, “I am That” a subject of joint authorship, rather than a translation. I certainly experience it that way, as the translation certainly comes from a Jnani space.

  4. Prem says:

    Interesting. Not sure how that happened. But I think Osho in several situations dramatised the situations rather than the actuality, to make his point impacting. Just like the film director has to concoct the right script, camera angle, action and sound together to get the required effect.

  5. frank says:

    when i was first travelling in india,i had to ask directions a lot.
    funny thing was,when i asked for directions, the people i asked were always keen to give them, none ever admitted that they had no idea….
    rather, out of a sense of politeness, or duty, or just not wanting to to look stupid…i`m not sure…maybe they were taking the mickey…..they would always offer a seemingly helpful response..
    “you go straight”
    “this way”(vague wave of the hand)
    “acha, chello”(vague wave of the head)
    how far?
    “yes,far”
    “not far”
    “about two furlongs”
    etc.

    on many occasions, i got more and more ridiculously lost following these directions from guys who, it seemed, being local, appeared to know what they were talking about (i assumed) …

    a lot of them were smoking beedis
    and chewing betelnut at the time, i remember….

  6. frank says:

    credit where credit’s due….
    these hard-core hindu babas really knew how to pull a catchphrase out of the beyond…
    “i am that”
    “thou art that”
    “dont worry,be happy”
    “its nice to be important, but its more important to be nice”
    “who am i?”
    all legendary stuff.
    its right up there with
    “jus` like that”
    “nice to see you, to see you nice”
    “i don’t believe it”
    and “kiss my chuddies”

    enough for today….

  7. Parmartha says:

    In reply to Prem a little earlier! if you want to be cynical, Osho was also living in Bombay in 1973 in a somewhat more middle class apartment in Woodlands.
    Just at that point, “Maharaj’s book, “I am That” was published and caught many seekers, I myself saw it in many traveller’s way stations, hostels, etc and lying on the beaches of Goa trapped under the clothes of swimmers.
    You have also to accept all these teachers wanted to attract western followers, and especially at that time. After all, most questions from western university graduates were somewhat more tasty than that from a rickshaw driver.
    There was competition. Amrito had mentioned to Osho how come some of the people coming to Pune then go on to see the Beedi Baba…
    so Osho talks down Maharaj….
    The invitation to 2 Osho disciples by Osho to go and see the Beedi Baba was I would think to check out if he was at least authentic.
    When that was ascertained Osho still playfully put him down, whilst conceding he was a genuine fellow. I dont think anything esoteric was involved. The stories about Maharaj and Maurice Frydman – that Osho states, Fydman being Dutch and infatuated with Maharaj, were typical unresearched hippie gossip at the time, that Osho simply repeated.

  8. Karima says:

    Here is an interesting intervieuw with Alexander Smit, who used to be a pupil of Nissargadatta back in the sixties. Later on he gave Satsang himself in the Netherlands. He died about 8 years ago, when he was 50.

  9. shantam prem says:

    It must be a coincidence that many “sannyas divorcees” favourite Shri Punja ji came into the limelight during the last years of his long life, few months after Osho´s death at the age of just 59.
    In case, Punja ji was also getting some western following during Osho´s life time, Osho would have also sent few of His people to Lucknow!
    Maybe he would have chuckled too, ” Before, Indians used to call their fathers Pita ji; as respect, every other child in the village will also call that person Pita ji, now it is Papa Ji!”

  10. frank says:

    i dont know about you guys,but when i read all that stuff about hard-core hindu gurus, strict.authoritarian fathers who expect women to know their place etc..
    i cant help remembering that time-honoured old joke from the Upanishads…..

    how does a jnani know his wife`s dead?
    sex is the same but the washing-up piles up.

    • frank says:

      i realise that joke is in pretty bad taste, and maybe Beedi Baba was a great sage, a great man.
      i don’t know.
      it’s just that all the folks who meet and write about babas have a pretty heavy investment in finding a “big guy”.
      by the time your spiritual search has led to sitting at the feet of a guy in the slums, you`ve pretty much blown the day job and a 9-5 in the matrix….
      jack kornfed
      david godman
      alexander smit
      sailor bob adamson

      these guys all met Beedi Baba and all turned fully pro teachers…
      they are always gonna show respect for their qualifications, aren’t they?

      where`s the account from his wife or his daughter?
      that would give some balance to your inquiry, maybe.

  11. Lokesh says:

    Osho’s comment says much more about who he was, rather than who NG was.
    I Am That has been recognized as a spiritual classic, and quite rightly so. It is a book that towers above most others. Even though Osho has hundreds of books, composed mostly from transcripted darshans and discourses, none of them draw near to I Am That, in terms of being concise, never wavering from the core principle and giving the sense that what is being said is coming from on high. I rarely read Osho books nowadays because there is so much boring content to wade through in order to get to the gold nuggets and diamonds, even though there is quite an abundance of them. Open I Am That on any page and you will find the same eternal message wherever you look.
    Osho was probably misinformed about NG. I also witnessed how H W L Poonja in Lucknow was misinformed about Osho. To reduce NG’s fans to rickshaw wallahs is pure nonsense. Ramesh was one of his inner circle and was CEO of the State Bank of India until he retired, which to me signals nothing except that Osho did not know what he was talking about.
    NG was a smoker…so what? As the man said, the body picks up a few habits while alive.
    NG also says in I Am That that there is no harm done in visiting different gurus. Somewhere described in the book as signposts on the road to truth.
    NG also differed from Osho in that he belonged to a traditional line of gurus who expounded self enquiry. Osho was doing his own thing, which was a mish mash of all kinds of things, some of which were fantastic to others that were pure nonsense.
    Most of us know that there is often no need to draw comparisons, but on the other hand comparison is often a part to working things out in a logical manner. Therefore I will round my comment off by saying that Osho simply had a different job to do than NG and both men delivered much that can be of benefit to us in helping understand what it means to be human. Take the best and leave the rest.

  12. shantam prem says:

    India is still attracting all kinds of people who are looking for dads or kids.
    Times of India has the accompanying news, “Britons largest clients of 1.5 billion pounds surrogacy industry in India.”
    On a dads front, South India is doing a good work. All the four south Indian states have their own Godmen doing amazing “work” in this age of quick-fix solutions saved in the passwords!
    Sri Sri Ravi Shankar with his soothing smile and boot polish black hair, Bhagwan and his wife of Diksha fame, Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev in Davos business summits,…forget about who am I and who are you…it is Camel and Marlboro all over!

  13. Lokesh says:

    Shantam, you never met Poonjaji yet draw all sorts of conclusions based on what exactly? Let me guess…pure ignorance. Just for the record Poonja was not a man interested in gathering a big crowd around him and often voiced that and how there was no need to hang around for too long. ..thus creating space for others to get close and personal with him. Like Osho, he was a charming man and one on one it was the same sitting with either of them….very enlightening, sometimes fun and always unforgetable…isn’t that what being with wise guys is all about….they are a reminder.
    Poonja had a small pension and was not interested in amassing money or any of the other trappings of wealth, to the point of refusing to move to a bigger place etc. I experienced that as refreshing. I recall him saying that whenever you see a big crowd gathering round a master beware, and I understood where he was coming from.
    From my understanding of such things I’d say Osho was much more of a father figure to many than either Poonja or NG. Neither of those men was interested much in giving names…a very basic parental role that could easily be judged as authoritarian. It’s all history now and I for one am certainly not the slightest bit interested in seeking out a father figure in any form…that is kid’s stuff plain and simple.

    • Teertha says:

      Good points about Osho. Also, he began teaching at a younger age than either Poonja or Nisargadatta. Osho was teaching college classes by his late 20s, and by his late 30s he was a full-fledged spiritual guru. Poonja taught a very small circle in his middle age years, only acquiring a sizeable following when he was an old man. Nisargadatta did not begin teaching until he was in his mid-50s.

      Accordingly, I think phases of life counts for something here. By his mid-50s Osho was already worn out. As a younger teacher he naturally drew a younger crowd, like Adi Da Free John and Chogyam Trungpa. A younger crowd tends to be more caught in transference issues (parental projection). Older teachers are probably less prone to this, simply because they are less personally attached. Nisargadatta especially showed little to no interest in forming personal attachments with students. I doubt he even thought of them as students. Osho, however, seemed to form profound personal connections with his disciples, despite the fact that his teachings stood for impersonal enlightenment.

      • frank says:

        beedi baba,chogyam drunkpa and adidas freelunch,
        now theres a wyrd kind of supergroup.
        they coulda done a stormin version of “cigarettes and alcohol”…

        if its true that beedi baba went down the bombay the red light to deal with the carnal side of things,that would make him more of an impersonal type.
        whereas freelunch,drunkpa and osho pulled exclusively from their disciples.
        its definitely more personal….
        what about LBW Poonjaji?didnt he marry one of his disciples?

        • Teertha says:

          Adidas Freelunch? Good one. At any rate his death (in 2008, I think) was strange and yet strangely perfect. Like Osho he also died from heart failure. Only in Adi Da’s case it was sudden. He was talking with some disciples about his art-work, I believe, when suddenly he had a chest pain. He then looked at his chest, said in his brash New Yorker accent ‘What the hell is this?’, and then fell down and died. No gradual parting of the veils in his case. Osho at least had the time to leave someone his dream.

          There was some talk about how Adi Da’s dead body was supposed to remain unnaturally warm, consistent with legends attached to saints — a good case being that of the 16th Karmapa, whose body apparently really did remain warm for several days after he died — but Adi Da’s disciples hastily disposed of the body not long after, apparently because it was decaying naturally.

          Nisargadatta seemed to die a ‘good death’ (whatever that is), and at 84 years of age, he had a good long run. Not bad for a smoker. Gurdjieff lived to near about 80 (smoker and drinker), and even Crowley, huge drug addict as well as a boozer, made it to 72. Osho was a vegetarian, non-smoker, and non-drinker, who died at 58. The mysteries of cause and effect.

          • Parmartha says:

            OSHO was a vegetarian, non smoker and non drinker, but I think it is generally aceepted, except by devotees and Alok John that he took an awful lot of nitrous oxide for quite long periods. As Lokesh has pointed out this is not a very well liked or known drug in the sub cultures. However when I was researching the dental chair article I read up the notes from various alternative sites re nitrous, and there were several references to multiple use having very deleterious effects on health.
            A friend’s mother died last week. He said, as the vernacular has it, she wanted to go. I have the feeling that was also true of Osho after Vivek died. How he orchestrated that is an open question.

            • Teertha says:

              Someone wrote a book a few years back called ‘Dead Philosophers’, in which the author documented the causes of death of the famous philosophers of history. Many had very ordinary or painful, grotesque deaths. The book was entertaining and quite funny in places. I think there is a place for a book on ‘Dead Gurus’, chronicling the deaths of the enlightened guys. At any rate, for the 2nd edition of my ‘Magi’ book (probably 2014 or 15), I will be digging deeper into Osho’s passing.

            • alok john says:

              Ah, these foolish devotees who have given up using their brains!…Not.

          • frank says:

            freelunch…
            aka
            blubber freejack
            `avabash freeload..
            `ave a hoot avatard
            da scamraj

            how anyone thought that fat self-obsessed pornopope on acid with his “super-sized ramana” look
            and his paunch spilling over the top of his chuddies, was “enlightened” is well beyond me….
            adi doh!

          • Parmartha says:

            Good you intend to look at Osho’s death with a penetrating eye Teertha in your next edition of your book. To cover all bases, one has to examine the “official” line which is that Osho died of Thallium poisoning done in Oklahoma jail by the US government.
            Anyway it was a young age to go for someone who had in a way still much to give.
            I suspect when Osho instructed Devageet to take out all his teeth a few months before he died and Vivek’s death also around that time…. he was sort of throwing in the towel on everything…

  14. shantam prem says:

    Getting old people can be termed as “mature” only if they know number of kids has increased in the world at astonishing speed, therefore kid’s stuff is needed, even in better quality than before.
    People don´t leave the bridge peacefully but want to dynamite it..They have read in some book, ” Destroy the bridge when you have crossed”.
    but these are the people who think books are pure kid’s stuf, just like hustler pin ups!
    Anyway, just because product is not branded and has limited customer base, does not mean it is healthy. Every year, in many countries. thousands of people die after consuming unbranded liquor or counter fake medicines!
    Dear Lokesh, I have nothing against Punja ji personally, but that rush among the people, who went to him as if it was a bargain sale of Apple products at throwaway prices..

    • frank says:


      The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

    • Lokesh says:

      It was a gold rush. People like Papaji come few and far between. Osho whetted our appetites, so it’s hardly surprising many people, including myself, went there to finish the job. I’m not saying that I am enlightened or any of that shite, I’m saying it was great to receive good directions on the road to nowhere. Like Osho, Poonjaji was also fun to be around and it was a most enjoyable experience to be surrounded by many wonderful people, who were on the satsang scene in Lucknow. What more can one ask for? Or in Shantamspeak, some go to Macdonalds, others go five star Michelin.

      • frank says:

        like any cooking, whether its a big mac or coq au vin,enlightentertainment is a matter of taste…
        its nice to blow out on international cuisine in an air conditioned marble dining room…
        but you have to admire these street cooks from the slums,beedi hanging out of one side of the mouth,chewing paan, who can knock up perfect sambhars and suchlike on the pavement,in the most primitive of conditions…
        just like that…

  15. Parmartha says:

    I knew a few people who went to the Beedi Baba in Pune one.
    Thankfully I was sat in the pin drop silence of Buddha Hall, in a shady place whilst they were sweating in a Bombay tenement.
    Guess I had had enough of tenements in London town!
    As a sociological comment I have noticed that those from privileged backgrounds, like Bankers (Ramesh) or like Maurice Frydman who had hobnobbed with Nehru and Gandhi, etc. seem to like to slum it in a way that those of us from more deprived backgrounds had no interest in!
    I agree with Lokesh’s view of I am That, and Maharaj. But I think that Frank has a point when he stresses that Maharaj was a “typical” Indian teacher in some ways, especially in his attitude to women.

  16. shantam prem says:

    I am That…thus spoke pack of butter to the glass of curd pointing towards the bottles of milk!

  17. shantam prem says:

    “A warrior of light knows that certain impossible battles are worth fighting and so he/she is not afraid of being disappointed, knowing the power of his/her love.”
    – Paulo Coelho

    Is Osho’s “Rebel” different then the Paulo Coelho’s “Warrior of light”?
    Being a non smoker i always ask my smoker friends, if i give you two cigrattes without telling the brand, would you be able to distinguish from the taste?

    • Lokesh says:

      Shantam, I used to smoke and I can tell you it is very easy to distinguish between different brands, besides the fact that they all taste shit and are mass market highly addictive coffin nails.
      I’m not a big fan of Coelho but the last book I read of his, Zahir, was a good read.

  18. Shantam Prem says:

    Fornight ago, one famous Hindu guru; “Jai GuruDev” has died/left the body.
    Just like Sai Baba, Baba Jai Gurudev too has left hell of property collected from devotees’ belief and trust. Now the over all fight has started between the driver and one of the main disciple.As per the news, Baba has chosen his trustworthy driver as the sole responsible person.
    After all, 12000 crore Rupees (approx.2.5 billion US dollars) is not a small amount in any country, what to say about India?
    In me another article is brewing for days. I hope i can focus to write about, ” Osho and His Succesion Plan”. The atmosphare, the gossips, the rumours, fragrance and stink of that era is still in me, to bring those historical days out; I wish at least a few dozen people should have come forward to share unbiased history.
    One thing is clear: distortion of facts has a long life. They can survive for centuries and every single passing day makes their skull harder like rocks..

  19. Shantam Prem says:

    Thanks, Lokesh, for giving good reading comment about The Zahir.
    I got this book in 2 Sfr. around 4 months ago, so today i can start with the first page.
    This is what commune was all about. Creating some kind of motivation and inspirational energy to wake up for Dynamic at 6.

  20. Lokesh says:

    I read a couple of books a week. If you want a recommendation let me know…be it thrillers or escoteric I am happy to pass on info. Zahir would rank a six out of ten on my book meter.

  21. Shantam Prem says:

    As Lokesh has written, people like Papaji come few and far between; are the people like Bill Gates are born every day?
    Below is the latest interview in India, last part is quite interesting regarding questions about his own self. I am sure being businessman operating in secular world, he will never mention that behind all the technology and allied success in the west, Christian values have played a great role by inspring society as a whole.

    http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/news/ndtv-exclusive-bill-gates-on-the-facebook-ipo-and-his-idea-of-happiness/234276?hp

  22. Lokesh says:

    Shantam, are you going Christian? Where did everyone go? Let me guess…outsidethe pub, smoking beedies.

  23. Parmartha says:

    “A warrior of light knows that certain impossible battles are worth fighting” quotes Shantam.
    Cant see this myself.

  24. frank says:

    by this definition,a suicide bomber would qualify as a “warrior of light”…

  25. shantam prem says:

    There are people specially in the West, who have Christian cells in their system for many many generations, most of their family members are still Christians, but these people feel proud not belong to Church any more.
    Mostly these were the people, who went to Indian gurus of last century on Rent a Master Trip!
    During last 50 years have they created a better world, better institutions, better business, better schools, better than Church places…..Oh Yes…Finally Maneesha is trying to gather Cash for better than other Old people´s homes.
    I hope Samasati project will not end up in the same way as famous Sannyas School, Ko husain or ko Suan or what is the name?

  26. shantam prem says:

    Lokesh, if battle with resort authorities is impossible to win, it simply shows what kind of intergrated New Man Osho was dreaming about.
    I want you to roar like a lion…and thousands of sheeps started chanting, ” Yes..Master Yes…”

  27. shantam prem says:

    Frank, let us imagine some Indian (Hindu or Sikh, Jain or Buddhist) comes to UK for a better living and then he dies there and is reborn in the majority community.
    I think such cases can be in hundred thousands as most of the Asians look at white majority with enviousness, so it is easy to presume they will get what they are looking at.
    One other thing worth keeping in mind is that howsoever Indians feel envious about western way of life, about innovative mind, about their women, one thing which keeps their self-esteem intact is that, ” We have a better religion than them”.
    It is quite obvious to see. Thousands of Asians support billion dollars worth of education industry in UK, USA, Australia and not a single one comes to learn philosophy, religion or Christian theology. Hundreds of hours they spend among themselves to come again and again to similar conclusion:
    ” West has no depth. Its religion is superficial, children´s fantasy etc. etc.”
    Every time i listen to such self-congratulating approach, i always ask, ” what the fuck you are doing here? If all is very good at home, why you come here? Why your great religious values have not eradicated corruption and insensitivity towards others’ suffering?”
    I don´t want to write an essay about Christian values in the foundation of western civilisation, as it is quite obvious, ” Behind every single innovation happened till now in the west, whether in the field of technology, medicine or laws, there is somewhere some Biblical sentence.”
    As i wrote in the beginning, my idea is that long time Indian souls born as whites are unable to see the contribution of the Christian faith. Who knows, you are one such person?!
    Have you got some OM sticker somewhere in your home?

    • frank says:

      Shantam,
      Sounds like you guys have got your immigration trip well sorted..
      Just get reborn in the country of your choice, next life!
      Nice one!

      You say:
      “Behind every single innovation that has happened in the West, whether in the field of technology, medicine or laws, there is somewhere some biblical sentence”

      This is nonsense.

      A few thoughts….
      When the true origin and age of fossils was discovered in the 19th century, the theory of evolution began its journey into being the strongest narrative of origin in the modern consciousness and the basis of further scientific progress….
      It undermined the most basic tenets and assertions and “truths” of the Bible.

      Homosexuality is now legal and accepted in many parts of the western world.
      You think the Bible was a kind of ancient “Gay News”, or something? And historical Christians were any less persecuting of homosexuals than Hindus and Muslims?
      Not at all.

      Christians still fight tooth and nail against contraception…..
      You think the development of the Pill was triggered by a sentence in the Bible?
      I think not…

      These are just a few examples.

      No, I don’t have any OM signs in the house.
      As you mentioned it, I looked around the house.
      I don’t have one single piece of religious iconography, nor pics of gurus etc. of any sort, anywhere….
      apart from one old Tibetan bowl.

      Don’t really believe in reincarnation, but if I did, I would be probably booking a trip to another planet altogether…..
      One with no bullshit religion, for a start…..

    • Preetam says:

      Frank is sounding frustrated and crushed, pity. Shantam still has energy to resist. Religion just a trick for the dirty scheme manipulating and controlling humanity. It takes away the natural peace of man and gives instead a lie, that way controlling the whole scene. There is a 3000 years agenda, designed by this scheme, the result we see all over the world, almost ready for the last step, for world domination and hostilities against humanity. It is an attack all along the line against humanity. It is not material, it is against feedom of man, keeping the whole under control. For that they use chaos, lies, bewilderment, foul play, wars and fanatic Religions to keep humanity busy instead finding peace. Frustrating our oblation with sinful deeds makes us complicit, abettors.

  28. Teertha says:

    Part V of my recent book ‘Rude Awakening’ contains capsule bios of seven sages, one of whom is Nisargadatta. I recently posted this section of the book to my website (scroll down past the section on Ramana, for the piece on Nisaragadatta):

    http://www.ptmistlberger.com/seven-sages-part-ii.php

  29. Lokesh says:

    Talking of contraception, I read on BBC news the other day that Western condoms are much too big for the average Indian penis. This of course is hardly surprising news. I’m curious how Shantam overcomes this little problem.

    • frank says:

      lokesh,
      all enlightenment religion is basically very similar to a penis enlargement scam.
      they show you pics of donkey-dick guys(in their chuddies or rolls royces) who have become “enlargened”….
      so you feel ashamed at your feeble little plonker, then you have to sign up to their scheme with the hope of reaching “enlargenment”……
      usually end up a lot poorer and with a damaged willy!!
      ouch!!

  30. Lokesh says:

    A damaged willy is no laughing matter. It can lead to psychological damage also…Shantam being a good example.
    Could it be that Indians smoke beedies and dirty white-skins smoke king-sized Marlboros for phallic proportion reasons? Or is this just another mystery to be lived?

  31. shantam prem says:

    The prevaling thought is that Gurus are the artificial daddies for those who were unhappy with their biological fathers..
    OK..Let us celebrate the jubilee of British mama….
    I was born to love you
    Yes Queen Yes…
    Your presence makes me feel Free!

    I am not sure but hope subjects of all the queens and kings are equally right on their inner growth as some disciple of some Master!

    • frank says:

      shantam,
      I`m glad to hear that you are huge fan of the Queen, too.
      I always knew you were really a loyal colonial…
      And as you are an avid reader of the “Daily Mail”, I wouldn’t expect anything less of you….
      Anyway , I am dressed up in my Union Jack suit and I`m off to celebrate with our wonderful Queen and have the time of my life…
      She is one hot chick, man…

      Two world wars
      and a World Cup..
      oy oy oy….
      Rule Brittannia!!!

  32. shantam prem says:

    At the last phase of His life at ripe old age of 76, Frank has come to the conclusion that being with spiritual master is like getting influenced by the penis enlargement ads..
    I am sure for decades, he was hanging in the sannyas scene and must have dozens of Indian visa stamps on his passport. Whatsoever, if he can hold his head high, the mala around his neck must have played a role..
    At least in my case, it is so..I swear by the products developed by Osho and therefore will not stop to criticise those who are mixing Indian tap water in Osho Cola…and calling it Osho Light (exclusive for overseas markets)

  33. Preetam says:

    It was not yet clear to me that this is a block for Biographer of dead master. Masters needed only solely because man is forced with every means at all levels away from themselves. I absolutely do not believe that search for truth is part of a Karma, a reprocessing of past life, it’s pure superstition in my eyes.

    Soon, the art of violence for pushing away from the self goes so far that everyone is vaccinated at birth, with the right profaneium.

  34. Lokesh says:

    Personally speaking, I’ve seen much in life that suggests karma, a force I see as insentient and mechanical, exists. This has nothing to do with suspicion as such. Karma also moves in the present mechanically and has nothing to do with past lives and that is why it is called instant karma. John Lennon wrote a song about it and like the great bard said, ‘Instant Karma’s gonna get you, Gonna knock you off your feet.’ I agree.

  35. shantam prem says:

    When someone shoots quite wise words, as Preetm has done in the above post, I become curious to know a bit biographical details of that person.
    For example, Preetam is Preetam Singh or some Preetam Kapoor from India or he is some Peter becoming Preetam due to some Living Indian Master from South India?!
    (South Indians are ruling the guru business right now and have special kindergarten for Western adults)
    So Preetam, please share some introductory note about you.

  36. shantam prem says:

    Few people like Lokesh are so much concerned about the size of the syringe, my suggestion is in case of some medical need, they should go to Veterinary doctor instead of GP. Injections used for horses and bulls can provide them speedy and lasting relief!

  37. Lokesh says:

    Preetam, I disagree with you entirely, because I see karma as having nothing to do whatsoever with love. How could an entirely mechanical process have anything to do with love? Karma rules dispassionately and as Buddha says it is one of the four imponderables. You cannot figure it out with your mind and if you try it will throw the mind into an infinite loop.
    Your comment beginning with ‘The mechanic…’ sounds quite profound but I don’t see it is such and might be borrowed from somewhere from someone who actually knows what they are talking about but in practical terms one can ask what does that mean to me as a human being? A bit lofty if you ask me. One thing’s for sure you…you can deny the existence of karma but you cannot deny that doing so is just part of your karma. And so it goes.
    Shantam, your syringe comment is a bit obscure. Are you on ketamine or something like that?

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