WAS OSHO ONE? Lokesh Explores
A fundamental difference between many early Western sannyasins and their Indian counterparts was that the Westerners had traveled East looking to extend their forays into the world of ‘Oneness’ (a timeless state beyond polarities, including life and death, wherein there is somehow no experiencer to experience the experience). For many this extraordinary condition had originally been brought on by the use of psychedelic drugs, which were being used widely in the West during the sixties and seventies. In my opinion Indian sannyasins were mainly attracted to Osho for reasons rooted in more traditional motivations, emotive, meditative, devotional etc.
In my own case I simply could not get enough of oneness and I allowed myself to be wooed in by Osho and his promise that if I surrendered to him he’d deliver oneness by the truck load. It seemed like a wonderful idea at the time, reinforced by the presumption that following an ‘enlightened’ master was the best way to arrive in a state of permanent oneness. Osho definitely appeared to fulfil the role of ‘enlightened one’, at least to my young and inexperienced eyes. He was to all appearances selfless, egoless, loving, compassionate, wise and without doubt, in my mind at least, above it all…floating like a white cloud in an endless sky, high above the mundane goings on of this material world. Yes. He was where I wanted to be. I was certain of it. Now I’m not so sure.
One side-effect of a positive psychedelic experience is the realization of how little we do in fact need to be happy. This idea has remained with me throughout the last 45 years of my life. We don’t need more money, bigger houses, bigger cars, bigger tits or the latest iPad to be happy. Happiness is our birthright, especially if born into a privileged society like most of us are and have a healthy body and mind. Back in the old days, when I sat at Osho’s well manicured tootsies, looking up into his hypnotic eyes, while listening to his seductive voice, enveloped in that incredible energy field that only he seemed capable of producing, I was 100% sure that no one else on earth knew better than Osho the emptiness of materialism.
Time passed and Zorba the Buddha came dancing down the path. Then the path was replaced by an asphalt road, fit for a fleet of Rolls Royces to drive along. It all felt like outrageous fun, at least in the beginning. By this time the psychedelic experiences that had originally propelled me to Osho’s feet had receded into a purple haze in the distant past. Nevertheless, the realization that I needed little in the way of material possessions to experience happiness remained and I began to ask, if Osho is enlightened why does he want all that stuff around him, crazy get-ups, cars, watches that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars etc? I don’t believe for a second that it was a case of him making others happy by taking on these trappings of material success. He apparently kicked up a fuss when he did not get that two million dollar diamond-encrusted watch that he wanted Sheela to use commune funds to purchase. During his so-called periods of silence he spent hours talking on the phone ordering bells and whistles for his fleet of luxury limos. I ask you, do you think that you need to indulge in such pastimes when living in cosmic consciousness 24/7? From what I’ve seen of cosmic consciousness you don’t need any of those distractions,because that is just what they are…distractions.
Someone recently asked why there is so much focus on Rajneeshpuram on this site. The answer is that is where certain matters began to become public that signalled that all was not well behind the scenes in Osho’s world. Drug abuse was a biggie, although that was not limited to Oregon. It turns out that Osho consumed a lot of laughing gas. The stories about him being out of it on pharmaceuticals are too many to ignore, although many still try.
The first time Osho spoke to me he explained how drugs were in the long term a hindrance to the seeker and although those drugs had given me a glimpse of the holy mountain I’d have to become a meditator if I wished to make that lofty domain into my abode. I followed what I still believe was good advice.Yet the man who gave me that advice eventually became dependent on drugs himself, which leaves one asking, who was getting high and why was he advising others not to? How is it possible that someone claiming to be super-conscious could become involved in such an unconscious game role reality?
There is good reason why there has been much written about the dangers encountered on the spiritual path and surely the one most at danger is the guru himself, because he is the one most at risk by the roles demanded of him. What’s more, when someone is treated like Osho was the potential for becoming delusional is great. Could it be that Osho was less enlightened than he imagined? If he wasn’t enlightened in the generally agreed meaning of the word the strain of keeping up such a pretence must have been colossal.
Enlightenment by its very nature is very hard to prove, seeing as how one has to be enlightened to recognise it. Nonetheless, we have some good examples to go by. Buddha’s life was well documented, as was Ramana Maharshi’s etc. These men’s lives were uncontaminated by scandal. Every word they spoke was from on high. They lived simple lives. They were perfect examples of the human potential to act and behave in an enlightened manner, minus the need for material wealth. Osho just doesn’t fit the picture.
I find it almost Orwellian how Catholic sannyasins are able to ‘Doublespeak’ and ‘Doublethink’ when it comes to explaining away the inconsistencies in Osho’s life. Their investment is of course huge. It takes a certain kind of courage to say that you spent years or even decades with a movement that was at best misguided and in the background corrupt, for nothing corrupts like power and Osho was given absolute power over many people’s lives on a solid gold platter. Of my old contemporaries from Poona One, who are still actively involved with the sannyas scene in one form or another, I see that many have a reason for being involved that, when it all boils down, is often worldly, although there are exceptions. Some are self-appointed spokesmen for Osho, even though I can’t help but remember how they often as not weren’t totally committed when actually with him. Others remain in a kind of sentimental cocoon, watching rewinds of their dreams and talking lovingly about someone who was in essence a very charismatic authoritarian father figure, who put into practice some extremely bizarre ideas that belong on the opposite side of the compass to spiritual enlightenment.
Meanwhile, we have a group of people (mostly Indian sannyasins playing out the old extremist Hindu devotional programme) determined to preserve Osho’s legacy. It seems that Osho was not the only one who might have suffered from being delusional. If Osho has a legacy that is not a shambles it is a legacy that will never be bound up with an organization, for that legacy has to do with a freedom that will always refuse to bow down to people who want to build an institution around it (rebellion). Of course, such things as access to Osho’s samadhi must remain open to the people who wish to visit it. Let us hope that they realise the palpable energy that exists at such a spot has nothing to do with Osho’s ashes, because they are dead, and the magic of the place has been created by the tens of thousands of loving meditators who have went before them and the wonderful events that once transpired there at Osho’s feet.
I’ve always maintained a warts an’ all vision of Osho. Enlightened or not, magic happened in his presence and nobody can deny that. That said, I think the times we live in collectively require us to think for ourselves and question all authoritarian figures, including Osho. If we do not do that we will find ourselves in a stuck space that signals that we have entered an evolutionary cul-de-sac, a dead end in which we will be unable to fulfil our potential. Which is, you might well ask. Answer: Well, I’ll let you fill in the blanks on that one, my dear gods and goddesses, but I think it might be worth bearing in mind that Osho was a perfect example of what happens when people want to turn someone into a saviour and that person goes for it. The strain of such responsibility can become lethal.
Originally I intended to bring all this into a coherent conclusion but have now decided that it will be more interesting as a thread to leave my questions open and hopefully those questions will provoke a good discussion.
Any chance, would you think, that Osho might have done all that ‘dubious’ stuff as a means to ‘keep himself in his body’, ie create gross-level diversions for his mind in order somehow to remain alive longer to help and inspire his people? He did say that he was ‘hanging on by the merest of threads’ solely for our benefit…
I’ve no idea myself, just putting out this perhaps completely bogus idea for scrutiny.
In the past, I can remember saying to people, in trying to explain Osho’s need for big boys’ toys, that this was an effort to keep him interested in life. Anything is possible after all. In light of numerous reports on Osho’s behind the scenes behaviour I can no longer say such things with any conviction. Does not the idea of enlightenment incorporate a lot more than simply knowing oneself? What about the state of anatta, ‘noself’? Is that not part and parcel of the enlightened condition?
I just read KP’s latest Geeyouareyou effort and in it there is a caption beside an Osho photo indicating that he was in a state of noself. It is taken as a given that someone claiming to be enlightened is no longer ‘selfish’. Yet some of Osho’s behaviour indicates a strong element of selfishness, not exactly in tune with a man claiming to be a master of masters.
No, this keeping him in the body number no longer rings true. He died a relatively young man in spite of it all in any case.
Other possible explanations for Osho’s ‘peccadilloes’ :
An obvious one would be that he took the Laughing Gas at least partly to mask the physical discomfort he was suffering.
Another might be he was deliberately ‘destroying his image’ so that he wouldn’t be worshipped as a ‘god’, a ‘saviour’, to avoid his work degenerating into a sort of religion.
I recall Barry Long saying a Master would be willing and able to ‘destroy’ himself to prevent people conveniently pigeonholing him, putting him into a convenient category etc.
BL, though severely critical of aspects of Osho’s work nevertheless called him “a great Master”, saying, “I know he knows the Truth”.
A third is that, free as the sky, he simply ‘didn’t give a shit’ and could do whatever he wished, without detriment to his state of being.
Lokesh i may not be enlightened but if you look more controversial lifes of enlightened persons like krishna or muhammad(maybe) then it will look outrageous.
For a non-hindu krishna may look an absolute fraud.
During the Mahabharata he used several deceptions,was a true politician,he was lecherous-took a whole lot of woman in his village under his chest.
But also gave the Bhagvad Gita and he justified his acts as that he was just doing his ‘dharma’
Now this guy is considered to be enlightened and G-D by millions!
Maybe we are not in the right position to understand,maybe the state of enlightenment is not like we project.Humans have a tendency to disassociate humanly tendencies like sex,passion etc from their gurus because along with sex comes danger,uncertainty so it is just an ego mechanism where one hanker for an authority which resembles a state beyond this uncertainties i.e a state where one’s ego is secured from the dangers and the unstability of life.Maybe enlightenment doesn’t necessarily means disappearance of these humanly tendencies.
Osho some where also told about thee forms in which energy manifests which are tamas,rajas,sattwa.
Where sattwa leads to godly characters which is the predominant energy in peoples like ramana mahrishi,buddha,mahavira.
Rajas usually means passionate energy and tamas means darkness or lethargic energy.
He told that peoples like Krishna used all the three expressions of energy at once creating confusion for outsiders whereas he himself has experimented with using one expression at a time.
And his life stages represent the form of expression in that order.
Tamas when he was a student.
Rajas when he was spreading his message.
Sattwa was he yet to try when he spoke it in his book (Dimensions beyond the known)
Other point is that if an argument is put forward about his outrageous acts then one can also say that he also lived a monastic lifestyle.Most of the time he spent in his room lying on bed or reading books.The number of times he left the ashram perimeter can be counted on fingers.
So i think it is bit difficult on our part to fully make out the motives behind what he did.Whatever we try to make out of it,we will only be projecting our own expectations and conditioning’s about how these peoples should be.
It is equally true about those fundamentalist puritan sannyasins which are growing in number these days.
The best thing for us is to reach the same state and know it for ourself!
Peace.
Cool.
He once said that he tried smoking because he had been told that enlightenment disappeared if you smoked, and he considered an enlightenment that disappeared under such circumstances a poor thing and not worth bothering with.
(Poor paraphrasing here. I’ll try and find the original quote. )
Osho as One?
I don´t think so, neither he claimed so.
One among the Few, yet truly a genius of our contemporary times in his line of action. (few for the reason, every Tom to Mary after reading few Advaita books think dropping I is easier then dropping the pants..unfortunately reality is not supporting this belief)
Though i remember one Tv ad in early 80´s–Coca ( Campa?) Cola; The only One!
Shantam, Osho claimed many times to be one with existence.
Tons of quoites to support this. Here is a random one.
Only one who is nobody is not drunk. Only one who is nobody is fully awake, fully alert. And in his alertness he gains the whole world; in his nobodiness the whole universe can disappear. It is so vast. Your somebodiness is so small. The more you are somebody, the more small you are. The more you are nobody, the bigger…. Be absolutely nobody, and you are one with the existence itself.
Source – Osho Book “The Razor’s Edge”
You think he said such things because he read it in a new age book? Wakey, wakey!
….Osho just doesn’t fit the picture.
Better would have been to say, Osho did not fit in the usual frame.
Ramana Maharishi will also not fit in the frame, if he is born in the Black forest region. Think about him sitting on one of the mystical hills here, in his Speedo swimming trunk looking at the silent lake and nudists around!
Don´t compare apple with apple!
Shantam, you are about the last person on earth from whom I would take advice on writing style. Much of what you write is uncomprehensible to almost everyone.
‘Don´t compare apple with apple!’ Ehm…er…yes, Shantam, anything you say.
Parmartha . . . it is very obvious that all us sanyassins had something missing in our real lives at the time each one came in search of whatever & landed up being initiated . . . & now in some way we have perhaps found that missing whatever . . . now many of us realize that our dreams are our business
Whatever? Kavita, are you short of time? I ask because you seem to be a bit short of words when describing things which when omitted leave your writing without any real content. Ah, well…whatever.
Lokesh . . yes infact in one sense thats true . . . the most precious is my time & I mostly cant type as much as I can speak in person
well sorry it’s ‘Lokesh ‘ & not Parmartha . . . sometimes in the flow
/ totality I tend to get carried away
Don´t compare apple with peach, don´t compare apple with orange are the usual sayings..
Don´t compare apple with an apple is fitting with the time. Think about the apple and many of us will think, not that apple in the garden of Eden or apple on the trees or in the green section of supermarket. apple is not just an apple, but gadgets from world´s most talked about tech company!
What Steve Jobs has done for his industry, Osho has added the similar contribution to His industry, though one cannot ignore the fact, millions of people are IT experts, the way millions are doing meditation.
Osho´s Samadhi..
Is this idea has born out from Indian sannyasins mind?
The man himself has given the instructions to keep his ashes in an urn and preserve them in that particular room. J Krishnamurti did not say like this, neither UG or Punja Ji, so they don´t have similar structure.
Mehar Baba was in favour of such things and therefore his property has His samadhi!
Like all of us, “one with universe” people also have their personal tastes, choices and certain degree of narcisstic tendencies. And why not?
I wish you people would stop bangin’ on about Osho and nitrous oxide.
I’m starting to develop a complex about not having a complex about it.
Arpana,
Perhaps some scatological humour may help?
‘Nor, wonder how I lost my wits;
Oh! Celia, Celia, Celia shits.’
Thank God for Swift and the Irish.
TheHorror! The Horror! All idealization destroyed. What happened to my spiritual growth? It all went up in smoke. Really only the human being is comical and our comments confirm this.
‘Roots and Wings’ by Osho is a great book as you know.
Roman.
Roots and Wings is my first.
The white Routledge Kegan and Paul edition.
Julie, a Rastafarian lass who I worked with at TWP, went and picked it up from the shop, because I didn’t have enough money on me the day before when I found it.
Arpana,
I got the same edition. One of those books that grounded you. Was a bit of a flying boy in those days. Interesting tale Icarus. I guess Osho, Hermes was my guide and a lot of luck.
Arpana,
I agree!
The nitrous oxide motif seems to go around and around.
It really is wearisome.
Arpana. I agree with you. Nitrous oxide is commonly used for patients who have asthma and/or diabetes. Both of which Osho had. It is also used for children who are fearful about visiting the dentist. One can only presume that those sannyasnews posters ‘banging on’ about nitrous oxide must be the kind of Ur males who don’t have any injections before their dental work – taking it ‘like a man’ – or else they ‘bite on a bullet’ John Wayne style – or else they just don’t visit the dentist at all …
Rajni,
What a beautiful comment. Osho certainly wasn’t an Ur male. Something Paritosh pointed out in his biography. He was a real gentleman. Strange that the Maneesha’s and Anando’s don’t make a fetish of the nitrous oxide. I’ve always trusted them and they were physically close to him.
Anando was very successfully before she was a sannyasin and if she thought her master was a fraud she could easily have left for a brighter world.
Lokesh.. very nice writing style, engaging, like an on the scene report, useable and personal too..one can pick bits out for mulling over without having to take a position for or against…so in a sense polarised ideas without being factional …..
These reflections on Osho and the life of us together, which are or were constantly visited in discussion and were /are the grit and gristle of everyday life proved necessary in identifying on what wavelength one wanted to live with or confide with others on. The variety of projections, interpretations and ‘facts’ on offer were mind boggling; everything from lovemaking to cosmic love..which I suppose was par for the course.
What makes us stand out in devoted community terms is that we can afford to say anything and everything that’s on our chests as sannyasins and have to thrash it out to see what settles. Internecine virulent speak with silent reverences is not a combo in most religions apart from say erm the higher echelons of Father Ted’s Catholic Church.
I don’t know about all the Osh communes and centres , how could I ,.. but those who are local and part of an indigenous plus traveller community will all have something/someone to enjoy, and similarly to avoid. Which makes visiting them like I have over the years always a possibility of who knows who you’ll meet and what you’ll share.
Though I can’t tell you the amount of times I was put in my place by infringements of holy monastic orders..that’s the very ugly side of submitting to the limited role modelling of Osho’s impositions and hierarchies in living/ meditating together… way into the mid 2000′s…(even got my head put in a jamming head lock and physically threatened by a black robe centre leader for causing others to giggle in his presence. …and he was until recently responsible for the Mystic rose in Pune.)
And similarly I can vouch for the fact that these stylised obligations to surrender one’s integrity and be sabotaged effectively by those who made that their life’s work was always the nasty side of letting go….you let down your defences for nothing much in return… that’s my story admittedly, but its not unique.
Of course if you weren’t into sharing your whole life and most intimate relationships then life with Osh was much easier.. you could say how wonderful it was to feel wonderful and then bounce off back to the day job.
Look at me I feel great, all day everyday….I’m enlightened,would you like some?
Jealousy, never mind wanting to maintain the acid trip, simple and constructed jealousy….
Osho is happy… I’m not…. how to get there… by most any means possible…
Gee u R u….? No I’m not and I know it….I suffer from all sorts of dilemmas and vicissitudes… and getting out of them is part of the conundrum.What a bummer….meantime, religion will save me from me! .. hooraayyyyy
and look he can allow himself to say and think and do anything with lots of permission… gosh .. boy do i want some of that…now lets see how can i inveigle others into making life easier, more fun….not a bad request..and still work in progress.
its not rocket science… but damn if i’m gonna watch my breathing for hours to get there…
about those Rollers…. why should I be jealous… I already am enough….
hence the need for a pinch of salt to savour the dish…
P.M. your energy is being wasted here… great comments from you, but SN doesn’t appreciate them… just noticing.
Rich, thanks for the ‘big-up’..
My collected works are available from the editors here. As it is I just content myself that someone in Almaty in Kazakhstan tunes into these pages.I…. look at the world map occassionally and most everywhere seems to have the odd spot on it..all except the Cook islands in the South pacific.. but hey there they can really use their energy..maybe they’ve found happiness before looking
enjoy…
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ps the world map of sn is over on the caravanserai if anyone didnt know
Yes, everybody has the right for a flush, even so called enlightened ones.
The problem the over idealizing Disciples, hoping they have found the only and perfect Master. Now the trouble starts, you want to reach many people. Maybe a few are between, with enough inspiration, unwillingness to compromise, and the acuteness in Finding, what ever the price will be.
Maharatshi likes Champagne, Gurdjieff smoke and cognac, Osho Lachgas. I guess with investigation more will be find. Truth and requirement are possible together and is no misdoing, as I see it. Even the Freemasons like the flush a lot, they prefer the “Johannes Vine”, but flush is flush. Ok a flush like Crowley, little Heroin addiction is quite strong.
What I found on one Website before a while, that Gurdieff worked for the British Secret Service, that would be off. Over that way for Stalin, and other “off guys”, that is more strange as Osho’s nitrous oxide. But truth still exists, and for sure it is not negativity about not fulfilled expectations. These are not part of the Self. We hope enlightenment is absolute, impeccable and our Master is the impeccablest. I personally even don’t like the word enlightenment, a simple realization of “Self” will do. Because to keep humanity away of experiencing themselves, a wrong picture of this so called enlightenment is very good. But still there is the possible “Self-realization”, and the magic is still the same. It is only one Self, we are buds, and this experiencing of this Phenomenon of realizing is our blossoming and oblation.
I would say that the Buddhist “enlightenment paradigm” can be enticing and misleading. For the sake of argument let’s say that enlightenment is a state to which a few human beings have attained, but according to the sages, quite a few gain access just before their death. Osho used to say this about Jesus.
It also gives rise to a sort of authoritarian relationship, cos one is relating to someone who has something rare, and which one is unlikely to achieve.
Krishnamurti never used the term, and spoke against it.
Being continuously at one with the forces which uphold the universe may well be possible, but best kept as a private thing I would say.
“Jesus said “the father and I are one”. Yet it totally mystified and flummuxed his disciples. Of the relatively small number who were close to him – and who followed along the martyrdom road – I am not sure they knew what they were doing.
Good posts from Martyn and Peetam.
What I find interesting about Osho’s laughing gas habit is that it is not a very interseting drug in my opinion. I’m surprised that such an intelligent man could enjoy it for such an extended period of time. Oh well, different strokes I suppose. Maybe it has a different effect when the user is enlightened. (joke)
Guess because of health situation. I know how much a body is able making a slip, if gedding a break that way, good. Diseases produce strange strategies for making it less worse.
‘I am not sure they knew what they were doing.’ Well, that at least is something Jesus’ disciples and Osho’s have in common.
i think it’s from an overload of sex hormones that blinded sannyasins- jesus’ disciples– too much matzoh ball soup!!!!
Martyn, why you became sannyasin in the first place? and more over you were paying money also to join those groups lead by average IQ people with high IQ Ego?
Was something missing or it was just the fashion which got your fancy too?
Those who want to earn interest three times more than the banking rates, should not complain about Ponzi schemes!
Shantam if you think my sannyas belongs to anyone else, then you have the correct idea of what ‘then’ (read now) was available,used,shared etc subtly, in tablet form…. Like Moses’ tablets.
Now with the effect of this lifetime of this sannyas drug…the view is :It doesn’t belong to anyone else in form or message or content…its gone democratic to the max…if you want…it’s a fractal design….
Trouble is I took the whole medicine, stuffed the whole bottle in one go.. now look at me..
I complain… about usury here…for anyone needing some viewpoints they don’t pay for.
(I don’t complain about the good stuff .. that already has a well advertised and very broad market share…you can dip into it as you like…osh did a great job with whatever helps u)
This open forum ‘sharing’ then , IS emblematic of that sannyas….it lives on in many people.. but it can’t be sold…..or bought in any way…its experimental too…. you have to try it and live it out….
shutting up isn’t..(unless you like that sort of thing)
….. or didn’t you listen to your master…… and hear he had a mouth as big as human experience would allow for…it’s a good model…. like being enlightened and more…
what game do you play ?
Lokesh says
“Buddha’s life was well documented, as was Ramana Maharshi’s etc. These men’s lives were uncontaminated by scandal. Every word they spoke was from on high. They lived simple lives. They were perfect examples of the human potential to act and behave in an enlightened manner, minus the need for material wealth. Osho just doesn’t fit the picture.”
I dont buy this stuff, it partly equates goodness and saintliness with enlightenment,(assuming that is a regular state), and on the other hand glorifies their lives out of existence.
In normal societal terms, Ramana behaved very badly, he “disappeared from his home, and hit the homeless trail, and never even told the family where he was or where he was going. He took himself to death’s door by starvation, and was only saved by the intervention of a cleaner. Buddha left his wife and family at 29, just when they needed him, and never spoke to them again. What good boys they were. Rubbish, they lived as far outside societal norms as the best sannyasins – as did Osho.
Parmartha,
You took the words right out of my mouth.
Stop it, you’ll embarass the man.
Yes,I have to agree with this.Nisargaddatta Maharaj, was apparently visiting a prostitute after his wife died-according to his diciple,the advaita teacher Ramesh Balsekar who was apparently also sleeping with some of his female diciples.This may sound scandulous to those with a `purist` ideals of how an enlightened `should` or `should not` behaviours, after all, `who` visited the prostitute? Some of his western followers cannot stomach this idea,cannot allow him this pleasure.
After all,he was meant to have attained the `ultimate desireless state`.
Yet Nisargadatta was part of the Nath sampradaya,a tantric lineage that stems originally from Lord Shiva.
“In the One there is neither bondage nor salvation,neither purity nor impurity.From union and seperation the One is free.That space-like Truth am I”. Lord Dattatreya- Advahuta Gita.
I have recently been learning about the Aghori tantrics- a group of sadhus in Shiva`s lineage,originating from Varanasi who are condemned by many hindus because of their taboo violation of orthodox practises,and some of their practises which involve trying to transcend social taboos,and seeing the illusionary nature of all conventional categories.Believing that Shiva is perfect and Shiva is responsible for everything,and living in the cremation grounds,the agori`s will commonly smoke charas,use other consciousness – expanding substances,and drink heavy liquers.
Some aghoris are also known to sometimes consume human meat from the funeral pyres-will also eat faeces and will have sex with prostitutes in tantric rites.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aghori
Man, some of these guys make Osho look really tame.
Many masters sure don`t live up to others `pure` ideals.
With all due respect, Lokesh, as everyone else, has the freedom to comment on Osho’s life.
For me, I evaluate Osho from three points-of-view:
Firstly, he transformed my life in a very positive way, and I will always be grateful to him.
Secondly, I have been running the Osho Viha Center in California for 26 years, so I see daily that Osho is a positive influence in the world here and now, helping mankind in many ways.
Thirdly, his message will be beneficial to the future of humanity, and it will continue to expand.
The Osho rose may have some thorns, but it is so beautiful and its fragrance is out of this world.
Right on Dhanyam.
(>w<)
Iam wondering if its ever possible to get the exact sense of what one wants to really say / hear . . . for that matter if one really needs to say / hear any thing at all or is it when we cant comprehend that what is being said is mostly thought to be of no content
Good and bad are moral perspectives. Who and what someone was before enlightenment has nothing to do with what I wrote. There are many accounts about monstrous personalities attaining spiritual enlightenment. What is up for discussion is how a person behaves and acts once they claim to have attained enightenment. Osho did some very unenlightened things, unconscious one might say, and enlightened people are not supposed to do unconscious things because they claim to be free of the unconscious. In such a state there is no need existing for the selfish pleasure derived from possessing things. Therefore why did Osho want so many things? It would be interesting to hear some new perspectives on this instead of parroting what has been learned by repitition.
Parmartha, the previous blog opened with this statement of yours: ‘I have always been amazed at the number of fellow travellers who find doubt in Osho’s clear statement that being enlightened simply means he knew himself .’
Osho claimed a lot more than simply knowing himself and therefore there is nothing amazing going on, except perhaps that you are amazed by it. Let’s just take the knowing yourself idea a step further. What does it mean exactly? I’d say it means that you are fully conscious of who you are. Was Osho fully conscious of who he was? The evidence suggests he was no. I don’t know. That is why I brought the matter up for debate…perhaps someone can shed some new light on the subject.
Many sannyasins have a big investment in Osho being totally enlightened and when that idea needs to be protected those people are capable of coming away with all manner rationalizations. The equation runs along the lines of if my master was fully enlightened I stand a chance of that happening to me also. Rubbish, of course, as enlightenment means there is no individual self left to appreciate enlightenment. On the other hand, if it comes to light that the so-called master was some kind of fraud it will require a fundamental reassessment of your relationship with that person and the resposibility for your salvation will be back where it really belongs…with you.
You are really, really cross at him aren’t you?
The utter bastard. He let you down. Your not enlightened. Not even as enlightened as you think you are, and you are going to sulk about it for the rest of your life.
rotflmao
Arpana,
One of the most delightful things about being a sannyasin is the range of people one meets. My partner and I became friends with an incredibly wealthy sannyasin, who, at the ranch, would wear a tee shirt with the logo: ‘You Can Ask But The Answer Is No’.
He is a very generous person and we would spend time at his country property. Sannyas certainly opened worlds. One’s social distinction obviously plays a part in one’s outlook. I’ve meet fine sannyasins from both sides of the tracks.
By the way U.G may have had a problem with his money chakra. He once tried to get an airfare out of a sannyasin I know but wasn’t successful. I don’t think he sulked. You can’t always get what you but you get what you need.
You said.
‘One of the most delightful things about being a sannyasin is the range of people one meets.’
Absolutely; and not just among people with sannyas names. Get to meet other grand people who know nothing about meditation, Osho, or sannyas.
Most of the gals and guys here are smokin’.
(^o^)
Does it actually surprise you, Arpana, that “grand” people exist outside the comparatively little world of “Osho, meditation, or sannyas”?
One of the reasons I left Poona when I did was because the idea this was the only place in the world it was possible to be happy freaked me out. The idea that the only people worth knowing were sannyasins freaked me out What good was this sannyas to me if that was so.
Thank god it isn’t . I am grateful that involvement with Osho and sannyas, meditation, have enabled me, as Roman said, to be involved with so many people from so many walks of life, an even wider range of people than before sannyas, and thats saying something.
When I took sannyas I was what you would probably consider a flawed human being. Still am. Don’t worry about it any more. Don have to fit anybodies idea of perfect. I am perfect imperfect.
Arpana,
Loved your comments. I enjoyed travelling and meeting people who weren’t sannyasins and making new friends. I also knew people who were turned off Osho because of sannyasins. When Vedanta and I were hanging around together we’d go to pubs where you wouldn’t see a sannyasin. You’d end up in a conversation with fascinating characters who were also intrigued by a couple of ‘red people’. It was all part of the game and opened up your world. I also have enormous respect for certain people who took sannyas after Oregon. They made a conscious decision to go to Poona despite all the negative press.
Some I know read Milne and rejected his narrative.
There are sannyasins who are now in their 80′s who were mentors to me because of their exemplary qualities as human beings. They played a part in my coming to Osho.
Arpana,
ROTFLMAO
We know that some tribes are said to be dour and unlaughing. Others laugh easily. They lie on the ground and kick their legs in the air, panting and shaking in paroxysms of laughter.
Lokesh,
Moral perspectives!? As Nietzsche would say there are only perspectives. However, that didn’t make him a relativist. Some perspectives are full of envy and resentment. Others are the perspectives of magnanimous souls. Osho being one of them.
Nietzsche also pointed out that all philosophies are personal confessions, Lokesh. Shakespeare’s theatre of envy is alive and well.
Lokesh seems you asked for it
Well, seems like you know what I am doing. How about yourself? What are you doing?
well Iam enjoying it all !
Well, good for you.
lokesh,
your negativity,anger,resentment and envy are clearly visible to all us osho devotees and real meditators.
as a result of our connection to osho,we have met more interesting people ,had a better life than the common masses without in any way being elitist,and have assured the improvement of humanity to come,so there is no need for any of us to answer any of the doubting thomas questions you put forward,a simple reiteration of our faith and an ad hominem attack on your obvious flaws will do nicely.
it always does.
remamber,whatever you say in criticism of osho simply is a description of your own shortcomings.
maybe he pretended to puff nitrous oxide as a device to weed out the negative ones like yourself who would not be needed in his work.
however,i find the attitude of those who continue to do oshos work extremely complacent.
many things have been left out.
for example,osho made it clear in his later days that homosexuality is a problem that had to be dealt with(could one of the faithful devoteees on sn please furnish me with the relevant quotes ,i do not have them to hand?).
it was something to be dealt with and oshos vision was to set up places where these people could be “re-educated”,as he put it.
where are these academies?and why is the resort,and all the centres avoiding this clear guide-line from the master,never even mentioned?
another point.why has some consortium never been set up to discover who the black magicians who were attacking osho in his last days actually were
our master is shot to death by dark magicians and no one has the idea to enquire who they were?
they are still at large.
maybe they are still working to destroy osho,and all the faithful can do is …nothing…or mumble about devices.
maybe that erstwhile descendant of dr watson,parmartha could be given gainful employment in this matter ,and it would divert him from his obsession with oshos alleged drugtaking,which has already come dangerously close to costing him his sannyas.
and re. oshos alleged drugtaking.
it is true that on some of the ranch videos he is slurring his words like a guy on mandrax at an ac/dc concert,but consider the collosal effort needed to stay on this shore,when you boat for nirvana has left..it`s pretty obvios isnt it?
so,lokesh before you come with any more of your bitter,negative,utterly disppointed projections about how your life has failed and how crap your dad was,remember this about us true sannyasins.
we may not know much about enlightenment,but we know what we like….
This is most untimely of you Frank.
Loki is already sweating his ass off trying to force his way
back to his previous position in the pecking order, and here you are again, with your droll ways, someone else for him to climb over.
But, forgive me, I am a different type of man. When I became
enlightened, I wanted to test it in every fire: if it passes through all
fire tests, then only is it real. Otherwise, I was hallucinating, I was
just imagining that I had become enlightened. And I can say to you now
that I have done everything that no enlightened person is expected to do
– even things in which I was not interested at all, but just to test
that I was not hallucinating….
After my enlightenment I smoked my first cigarette. I had never had any
interest in doing such a silly thing. When you can breathe fresh air and
exhale, why should you pollute it with smoke, with dangerous nicotine?
But I did smoke, for almost one month. It was difficult, I was coughing;
it was a hard thing to do.
I used to live with one of my friends. He was puzzled; he said, “You are
mad! You were never interested in cigarettes, and now you are smoking
continually.”
Coughing, tears coming to my eyes, I said, “I have to see whether the
cigarette is stronger than the enlightenment. I have to give it a chance.”
I have done everything after enlightenment which has been thought would
destroy enlightenment. And I tell you now that nothing can destroy
enlightenment, because enlightenment is not just an experience, it is a
transformation. It is not that it happens once and you see the light,
and then the whole of your life you remember with joy that vision, that
opening of the window to existence. It is not like that. Enlightenment
transforms you. You are totally a new man.
Osho~~ from From the False to the Truth, Ch. 24
Before i go to my low paid yet satisfying job, thanks to sannyas, an advocate instead of becoming a minature guru has become helper in old people´s home.
Lokesh/Martyn, can you share one name in the world of spirituality, who you admire and is also alive?
I know it is quite difficult, Corner kiosk holders don´t become head news in “financial Times.”
One thing is clear, more you grow in the world more one deploys all the means to save taxes, master or no master!!
all my friends….i admire them a lot….couldn’t have made it without them…
I am a big fan of Nelson Mandela. I admire dotors who go and work for nothing in poor countries and many othe kinds of people.
I’m not sure if Arpana is addressing me when he says: ‘You are really, really cross at him aren’t you?
Not at all. Osho was the most remarlable person I’ve ever had the pleasure of meeting in my entire life.
‘The utter bastard.’ Your words not mine.
‘He let you down.’ If I had expectations I takeresponsibility for them. Osho gave me the help I needed when I asked for it and I will never forget that. Your not enlightened. I never claimed to be. But just for the record….I am not enlightened.
Not even as enlightened as you think you are, and you are going to sulk about it for the rest of your life. What exactly is your problem, Arpana?
Get out of bed on the wrong side this morning?
You have done this so many times.
Preach about how flawed Osho is, how foolish
people are for being into him, and then you get
challenged and you back off and start singing his praises.
Lokesh has often expressed his gratitude to Osho here and I don’t think it’s necessarily after someone has “challenged” him, Arpana. Perhaps his criticisms are so hurtful to you that you forget this?
Anyway, you and I might not always agree with everything he says, but so what? His trip is his trip, just as yours is yours and mine is mine.
Lokesh uses this site to flaunt his ego.
He doesn’t come here to share with us.Every thing he ever says to anyone is always to say how superior he thinks he is.
He uses peoples posts, not to share, not to communicate, but to bang on about how above it all he is, above whoever he talks to he is.
If he’s got that much under your skin then might there be a lesson in this somewhere, perhaps?!
Activated any latent doubt, self-doubt, Arpana? Maybe not, only you know….
Satyadeva.
Of course people get to me sometimes.
Sometimes its easy to see why.
Sometimes not.
I am not so evolved that I don’t get my back up eventually at patronsing self important egotists.
Before I took sannyas I played the same games as everybody else.
Desperately put on a good face and tried to pretend nothing bothered me. One of the reasons we are all so repressed and screwed up when we take sannyas.
I have no investment in appearing to fit the spiritual stereotype at all.
I am the loving hate filled resistant surrendered one. (The meaning of my name. )
Sometimes challenging people can be about drawing lines in the sand.
I have no investment in appearing to fit the spiritual stereotype at all.
Nor has anyone else here, I expect, Arpana, so you’re not special in that respect.
Anyway, I guess each of us has to uncover the sources of our emotional reactivity, if only for our own eventual sanity, as ultimately it’s a sort of living hell.
And that’ll be my last word on this!
Not if I provoke you it won’t
Wouldn’t go as far as to say anyone.
Most people here have no investment in fitting the spiritual stereotype, but that trip is not entirely absent.
We are works in progress.
If we had got past that why would we come here.
Dhanyan, to one degree or another I have to agree with you, but you are missing the point here. I raised some questions in order to stimulate some action and it sems to be working; afterall even you have made a rare appearance.
I really enjoy this site for a number of reasons, not least of which is that it provides an opportunity to air various perspectives that are a step away from the mainstream. If we all sat around singing Osho’s praises it would soon become boring and only dummies would bother logging in here. There are plenty of sites doing that already….yawn. Osho wanted his disciples to provoke each other in order to grow. Debate is important in Tibetan Buddhism and I see that as healthy. None of this makes any difference to Osho. If he was who he claimed to be he has merged forever. Besides, as he so correctly said, one of the most ridiculous things a person can do it is to be concerned about how you will be remembered when you are dead.
Satyadeva, glad to see you are catching my trancedental drift.
Frank, thanks for supplying me with a good laugh. I take it your post is an elaborate and very witty joke. If I am mistaken and you are not joking you must be an absolute fool.
Although not intended as such my wee ‘Osho is One’ number might have acted as bait for a very undeveloped intellect. In this case yours. That is, if your comment is not meant in jest.
Take this statement of yours, and I quote: ‘maybe he pretended to puff nitrous oxide as a device to weed out the negative ones like yourself who would not be needed in his work.’ Apart from being utterly self righteous this kind of doublethink is exactly the kind of nonsense that the uneducated come away with. I was once like that; telling people that Osho’s Rolls Royces were a device to scare the wrong kind of people away…Gurdieffian, one might say, or just plain dumb.
‘oshos alleged drugtaking.’ Where have you been for the last twenty years…under a rock? A good friend of mine was Osho’s nitrous cannister delivery man. Osho sniffed gallons of gas. If Osho liked that junk that was his business. What I am bringing into question is who was getting high if Osho was who he claimed to be i.e. nobody.
I’ll leave you with a fairly relevent Osho quote.
‘Only one who is nobody is not drunk. Only one who is nobody is fully awake, fully alert. And in his alertness he gains the whole world; in his nobodiness the whole universe can disappear. It is so vast. Your somebodiness is so small. The more you are somebody, the more small you are. The more you are nobody, the bigger…. Be absolutely nobody, and you are one with the existence itself.
Jumpin’ jack flash, it’s a gas gas gas!
Lokesh, stop frothing at the mouth with inanities.
What’s ‘Oneness’ !?
‘Not Two’ isn’t the same as ‘One’.
Okey dokey
‘I am perfect imperfect.’ Well, Arpana, hardly original, but it is a start. Perhaps you would care to elucidate. Does this tie in with projections like, quote: ‘Loki is already sweating his ass off trying to force his way
back to his previous position in the pecking order.’ You see, I’m not sweating my as off and I was not aware that such a thing as a pecking order exists on SN and therefore know nothing about my previous position. Was I high up, low down or middling?
Truth is not in having the last word Loki
That is very patronizing of you, Arpana. Thanks
PS. Arpana,are you one of those newcomer type sannyasins? You certainly express yourself like one. Did you actually meet Osho? I’m curious and would appreciate clear answers. I’m doing research for a new book, tentatively titled ‘The Lost Disciples’.
How many more times are you going to brag about how long you’ve been around?
Does the word ‘spoilsport’ mean anything to you, Arpana?
Do you know I get the distinct impression I’ve got to you.
Gosh. Little new to sannyas me.
Don’t flatter yourself. Anyway, what do you need to get to me for? Get to yourself, up hill though it might be it will be a lot easier and of more benefit.
May I say how incredibly impressed I am, no chastened, by that humbling demonstration of how above that which motivates ordinary inferior beings you are.
Anyone else but you and I would have thought that was a tantrum.
arpana,
keep up the good work in chipping away at lokeshs oversized ego,and dont let him get too far up the pecking order,
that thought of yours of him with his sweaty ass climbing all over me is giving me the heebie jeebies
definitely doesnt fall within the guidelines of oshos vision…..
yahoo!
LOL.
Yahoo back
Arpana,
Well I guess some people need to emphazise how long they have been around. As you know it will just be one day shorter than any other day. It won’t be very significant.
Truth is not in having the last word Loki
Today is 19th March..just one of the days in a year. But in 1949,it was bit different. out of many people born on that day, three women from different parts of the world became prominent sannyasins, who will remain part of, Osho and His disciple´s history.
These women are-Neelam, Sheela, Vivek(Nirvano) in alphabatical orders…
Another important fact is Jayesh, the big boss Aquarius got more and more solid once these three Pisces were gone one by one from the main scene.
Some time i wonder whether celestial revelry of Uranus Neptune is played through these people!
One thing is clear, how so ever brilliant architecure may be, if masons are not mixing sand with cement in a proper ratio, building or a bridge will collapse sooner or later!
The mixing of no good quality, because of the missing heart. We had a movie at German TV. “Was nicht passt, wird passend gemacht”. English: What does not fit is made to fit.
Ps. not the people… the structure of brilliant architecture I meant, bit far maybe
Shantam: ‘Another important fact is Jayesh, the big boss Aquarius got more and more solid once these three Pisces were gone one by one from the main scene.’
Important to you perhaps, but completely meaningless to me and most African bushmen….not to mention the Tingri Folk.
One Osho effect: I they allow me sitting on the Altar, I would go to church
Really Lokesh,
No-one really knows what the Buddha was like. The records of him were written down long after he died and idealised him.
With Ramana, well you say that it isn’t of relevance what he was like before he was enlightened. Actually he didn’t get in touch with his family after enlightenment either, they eventually found him – assuming you still have his enlightenment as an irrefutable proposition.
Frankly I used to be a mental health social worker, and would have had my doubts about Ramana had he been referred for assessment. Wearing that giant nappie all the time, and taking at least a month to realise that there was a world war going on in 1939.
I do get fed up with people saying how “good” he was, which you seem to be saying and equating with enlightenment…. I still could imagine that somewhere inside, though you choose over many years to live a life very much on the edge of society, there is a Scottish Calvinist lurking.
parmartha,
i think your diagnosis would probably be about right.
its a little known fact that ramana was a keen amateur boxer in his teens.
in one bout he was knocked out for over 12 hours.
he probably had brain damage.
funny eh? a duff pugilist in a pair of underpants with brain damage ends up as the holiest guy in history.
i reckon if god existed,he would have to be a guy with a seriously badass black sense of humour.
‘i reckon if god existed,he would have to be a guy with a seriously badass black sense of humour’
Take a look around. God exists and for once you are right,
PS. Are there two Franks? I seem to recall a Frank on SN who was witty. Where did he go?
that old frank has gone beyond,gone gone altogether beyond…
gate gate parasam gate bodhi swaha!
he finally channelled all his sex energy into love and totally transformed it..it happened
it was like the dawning of a million million suns
an explosion of pure delight of nothing for nobody…
i am nobody now.
or there is simply nobody ..
ah! the limitations of language!
that nasty old cynical “witty” frank with his sick negative ego projections,who mistakenly thought enlightenment was some kind of joke or laughing matter disappeared into the void for ever….
now he sits quietly on his lotus and gently amuses himself at all the antics of all the lost disciples wallowing in the mud beneath him….
but i have vowed to linger a little longer on this shore as there clearly a few still in need of me….
‘there clearly a few still in need of me….’
Ehm…erh…does the word delusional mean anything to you, Frank?
Enlightenment is like an onion bulb.
Very few reach the core.
Most still carry ‘layers’ of their old self, but they’ve shed the outer tough skin.
The more layers shed, the more nearer perfection.
Such prose brings tears to me eyes.
Perhaps you might do well to read a good book about Ramana. (you probably have already). Also the description of Paul Brunton’s meeting with the man, as described in ‘A search in secret India’, is classic. I find Ramana’s words inspirational. Different strokes, as the saying goes.
I’ve lived on the edge of society for my entire adult life and will continue to do so until I leave this world. Osho once described himself as the ultimate drop out. I can dig it, man. I do believe he once said that all masters were dropouts and that dropping out of the rat race was dropping into reality. Hey, that’s my man.
A Calvinist! That’s a good one. Sinners repent! If you ask me the man was way off target.
Anyway, always good to hear from you, Parmartha.
No Ramana is not for me Lokesh. Much too saintly and unworldy. I have read quite a lot from him and about him.
What I like about Gurdijeff is that he was (like you) on the edge of society. I love that story about him painting sparrows so he could sell them as canaries…. and Osho, – really surprised you seem to disapprove of some of his “behaviours” … ./…
arn’t you a bit like him?!
I am surprised you dont quote Gurdijeff et al as gurus you approve of, it seems paradoxically that you are attracted to the Saints…. still, a conundrum for you not me….
I dont think Osho was a guru for the rich, like he said sometimes, but he was a guru for all those Goa freaks, and rightly so. They “had nothing, so they had nothing to lose” to quote one of your favorite singers. Perfect disciple/seeker material…
Parmartha, I would not be so daft as to disapprove of anything Osho did or did not do. I do think the sterilization programme was pushing it a bit, along with telling people to wear rubber gloves when they made love…although the latter was quite amusing. On one level I am raising a red flag by raising some controversial questions and thus other bloggers show their true colours. I’m clear about my time with Osho. I did not get stuck with the finger pointing to the moon. Thanks in part to his influence.
Yes, George’s sparrows…love it. Studied the Psychological Commentaries for a couple of years. I heard he regretted his boozing and philandering towards the end of his life. He could have learned something from Edith Piaff.
What I dig about Ramana is that he really does seem to speak from on high. When writing and in need of a reality check I always check out Nisrat…who cares if he went to a prostitute when his wife died.? Seems natural enough to me if the need arises.
Getting into laughing gas might well have been an escape for Osho when he got bored watching telly. It is all water under the bridge now, but it can be fun to set the cat amongst the chickens and I usually learn a little in the process. Number one rule, don’t take it serious.
These words from U.G. Krishnamurti define the extreme form of ‘awakening without attachment to behavior’:
****
“Your natural state has no relationship whatsoever with the religious states of bliss, beatitude and ecstasy; they lie within the field of experience. Those who have led man on his search for religiousness throughout the centuries have perhaps experienced those religious states. So can you. They are thought-induced states of being, and as they come, so do they go. Krishna Consciousness, Buddha Consciousness, Christ Consciousness, or what have you, are all trips in the wrong direction: they are all within the field of time. The timeless can never be experienced, can never be grasped, contained, much less given expression to, by any man. That beaten track will lead you nowhere. There is no oasis situated yonder; you are stuck with the mirage.
The personality does not change when you come into this state. You are, after all, a computer machine, which reacts as it has been programmed. It is in fact your present effort to change yourself that is taking you away from yourself and keeping you from functioning in the natural way. The personality will remain the same. Don’t expect such a man to become free from anger or idiosyncrasies. Don’t expect some kind of spiritual humility. Such a man may be the most arrogant person you have ever met, because he is touching life at a unique place where no man has touched before.”
*****
This was probably mostly U.G.’s justification for his crusty personality, but it was also the key behind the parting of the ways between Andrew Cohen and Papaji. Andrew was arguing that behavior does matter for one claiming to be awakened, whereas Poonja basically dismissed the significance of behavior.
I like Andrew but I incline more toward Poonja’s view. Observing the behavior of a so-called enlightened one can be interesting, but not from a platform of moral judgment, simply from a place of disinterested observation. We have to apply that approach toward our ego-mind.
U.G was a wacko
But the essence of what he said is t-r-u-e.
“be absolutely nobody and you are one with existence” -osho
ramesh balsekar was caught for the umpteenth time coming on a bit too strong to one of his female disciples.
they asked him what was going on.
he said:
“actually, nobody was to blame”
(true story)
A very interesting piece of writing from Lokesh. It’s stuff like this that makes this message board interesting. There are few things as dull as online boards centered around a devotional relationship to a guru that is nothing more than an ongoing Hari Krishna Bhajan chant of devotion.
Far as I understand it, Osho’s main vision was for each sannyasin to discover their own inner light. He surely did not want us to remain blindly loyal to him if that meant not fully realizing our own deepest nature, and the unique means by which that expresses. Buddha’s alleged last words, “Behold, O monks, this is my last advice to you. All component things in the world are changeable. They are not lasting. Work hard to gain your own salvation”, could easily have been Osho’s last words. There is nothing in those words about remaining loyal to one personality, no matter how great that personality was. Of course gratitude will be there. But I do not think it is some sort of sin to analyze and critique the life of one’s guru. In fact, I’d suggest that it’s an important part of maturing as a seeker, if only so that we can see ourselves, and our own foibles, mirrored in the process.
As Gurdjieff had posted at the Prieure, “If you have not by nature a critical mind, your staying here is useless”.
Those words are potent because they are contrary to the tendency of spiritual seekers to abandon discernment in the face of the deep desire to escape from pain and suffering (which is why the Buddha insisted, in his First Noble Truth, that we face up to the reality of pain and suffering). We want so badly for things to be good that we need perfect gurus to believe in.
Holding the guru as perfect is like a child insisting that their parent was perfect and already figured everything out, so why bother growing up? “Dad” already did it all. I can just safely remain a nerd and not bother risk shining my lightly brightly (after all, someone might not *like* my light — so I’ll just hide behind my guru’s).
Osho was a great test in that regard, because his charisma was so over-powering that there was a tendency for sannyasins to be dazzled by his radiance, and to accordingly transfer responsibility onto him. That’s understandable. Osho was the classic all-caring Father archetype. He was even going to war against the World on our behalf. With such a guru it’s easy to forget the point, which is that I’m supposed to uncover my own intrinsic wisdom and light — not Osho’s not Buddha’s, not Jesus’s, not anyone else’s. In order to do that, I need at times to honestly assess my relationship with my guru, and that inevitably includes assessing my *image* of the guru, how I perceive him, etc. If I can’t do that, what hope do I have of honestly assessing my own ego? Individuality has to be distinct before it can be dissolved in some alleged ocean of Oneness.
Teertha, thanks for that comment. Right on the money, baba. I’d take my hat off to you but my shaved head would freak. Beautiful.
It’s all in the timing. A time to follow the Master, a time to kill the Master. All in the timing.
“There is an appointed time for everything. And there is a time for every event under heaven ~
2 A time to give birth, and a time to die; A time to plant, and a time to uproot what is planted.
3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; A time to tear down, and a time to build up.
4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; A time to mourn, and a time to dance.
5 A time to throw stones, and a time to gather stones; A time to embrace, and a time to shun embracing.
6 A time to search, and a time to give up as lost; A time to keep, and a time to throw away.
7 A time to tear apart, and a time to sew together; A time to be silent, and a time to speak.
8 A time to love, and a time to hate; A time for war, and a time for peace.”
Ecclesiastes 3:1-9
‘They played a part in my coming to Osho’, says Roman. Is this a case of blaming others when in fact it is time to dawn the mantle of responsibility? I’ve a sneaky suspicion it is. Shame on you Roman.
Lokesh,
)))
You’ve misread me Swami Jim. I can’t take responsibility for having met Osho on my own because I didn’t. It was a very compassionate person who introduced me to Osho and I’m eternally grateful. Read my lips. I’m THANKING them, not BLAMING them. Ok.
Perhaps the next step is to develop your sense of humour.
Differences in the contents apart, in his beautiful written prose, Lokesh has spoken about Buddha and Ramana but wonder, why not His holiness Shri Punji Ji Aka Papa ji; a perfect example how an enlightend master should be i.e. simple living high thinking and a talk of beyond thinking…
and here he has a first hand eye witness experience…
As i remember during this short period of gathering people around him, during the peak years of his life, Punja ji were spreading like wild fire among the sannyasins. No books, no casettes but sheer power of mouth to mouth imformal information. Many well known sannyasins too went to Lucknow, in search of second Pune!
You obviously didn’t go there or you would not come away with a naff punchline like, quote, ‘Many well known sannyasins too went to Lucknow, in search of second Pune!’
Really, Shantam, this is bigoted nonsense.
Its high time we all come out of East West conundrum. See below, both East and West are equally contributing to the detsruction of very life. And its the same case with spiritual conscioussness. Like for ex. How much spirituality is still left in India? Nothing..
http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/india-worlds-largest-recipient-of-arms-pak-third-187486?pfrom=home-otherstories
“A fundamental difference between many early Western sannyasins and their Indian counterparts was that the Westerners had traveled East looking to extend their forays into the world of ‘Oneness’ (a timeless state beyond polarities, including life and death, wherein there is somehow no experiencer to experience the experience)”.
In my case, I was simply drawn to Osho after reading one of his books. I just saw the authenticity in his words. I was simply drawn to him so strongly, I do not know what that pull meant. To me, going to him with some preconceived idea itself shows that you are going there with some conditioning. If one is wise, he/she will let go of all conditionings ( preconcieved ideas) and start to understand & experience the experience. Ultimately its a simple equation, isn’t it? Sex when channelled correctly transforms into love which then transforms into prayer which then tranforms into bliss. In one word its the essence called LOVE. Not the imposed love taught by priests who want to distroy Sex. If very base is distroyed, how then love is blossomed. Thats all the fuck there is. Its amazing why people make this simple phenominon into a complex phenominon.
It’s time to rejoice ! friends. ! for a break, stop talking about Osho and see something fun thats happening outside. Seriously !
Sex when channelled correctly transforms into love….
Sounds fine, except that I don’t recall Osho actually teaching what this entails. It might not be as simple as it sounds?
Or is it that it’s simple, but not necessarily easy?
‘If one is wise, he/she will let go of all conditionings ‘, says Prem, who is ironically speaking from sannyas conditioning. Okay, I believe you and agree that you are not wise.
Well buddy, India has a country called PAKISTAN on their west border and the biggest communist fascist nation on earth CHINA on their north border. Both have nukes.
Considering that it may be justified.
Does this have something to do with the supreme understanding?
The commune of Osho had destroyed the professional lives of many young people..it has effected the labour market of many countries very badly. To rectify this mistake, we the owners of Osho´s property have decided to turn the ashram into Bed and Breakfast..come for a day or two and go back home. After all, meditation one can do in the offices, factories and shops too. You live in peace, we also enjoy our drink in peace.
(The notice which was not published but is written all over)
Actually, that is not a bad idea, Shantam.
Lokesh, or should that be Swami Lopsang Rampa – You call yourself an ‘outsider’ – I’ve written a PhD, for what it’s worth, on the Outsider, and frankly, you didn’t appear even in a footnote. The only ‘outsider’ on this site is JC Pennie – who was so outside the parameters he was deleted – and still he tries to return – only to be deleted again. Not that I’m condoning his rants – but an ‘outsider’ he is. You, Lokesh, are so far ‘inside’ you are sitting on the biggest chair – or claim to be – and sprout ‘insider’ knowledge that no ‘outsider’ would know about. And speaking of outsiders, try being a female poster on this site. Instead of responding directly to Roman’s post on Nietzsche and relativism you instead throw your indirect response at Kavita.
Rajni,
I’ve often wondered why there is an absence of female posters on this site. You’ve got a point. Why didn’t Lokesh respond directly to me?
Is it still 1972? I thought it was 2012. Hasn’t anything changed in the last 40 years? My step-daughter was born in 1972. She is now 40. Haven’t we moved a bit since then? Obviously not.
Not quite sure what your on about. You say, ‘I’ve written a PhD, for what it’s worth.’ In this case nothing because I reckon nobody here has read it. Therefore the fact that I did not appear in the footnotes of your writing is supposed to mean something. Sounds like a short circuit, darling.
Darling Lokesh,
Has your achilles heel been exposed? A text book response from a certain era. A Ventriloquist Dummy.
To short circuit means to make him or her aware of another – disturbing – side of something he or she knew all the time. I suspect you’ve been short-circuited. Your obsession with nitrous oxide reminds me of Lady Macbeth and the need to wash her hands. No doubt it won’t go away. Does it keep the demons at bay?
Are you trying to copy Shantam’s writng style? Keep banging your head against the wall and you’ll get there eventually.
Shantam, you have competition. An apple is a dog.
Lokesh – to quote the advice you have recently given to others:
‘ Number one rule, don’t take it serious.’
and
‘Perhaps the next step is to develop a sense of humour’.
Your words, sugar plum ; )
Few people meet regularly for a drink then a game of cards and sometime orgy and they all think if the whole world starts living like this, there won´t be any conflict, any war..
few months later, few other people joined this secret and sacred gathering. And one day it happened, after few sessions of orgy, someone fell in love with someone else’s wife. Emotions were changing the equation…
Prem, who has written about the war and weapons, rest of the story i leave up to you.
Ditched husband comes next time with a gun and shoots both the bastards or he goes to the court for restoration of conjugal rights.
In any case, police enquiry will take place…
and as i know..it is the The End of a small happy world story….
When few thousand people involved in a certain set-up of 24 acres do all kind of legal and illegal things to maintain their supremacy, how naive it is to expect, collective mind of millions and millions of people would trust the others..
Anyway, weapons are the right deterrent..deadlier the war material, less are the wars…When was the last time, earth has so many people and so many expensive military toys…
I love the sound of military boots!
PS-As i have heard, Osho loved the miliatry movies!
Paton and the Ten Comandments were his favorites, which only goes to show that his bad taste was not limited solely to gaz guzzlers.
Shame on you! Going Ad Hominen. Ghastly and Boorish.
Lokesh,
Only, ‘If you’re so vain’ would you think my last post, ‘was about you …..’ : )
Did you? You’ll never know.
Why’s everyone suddenly attacking Lokesh?
What a bunch of ingratiates.
Leave Papa Lokesh alone.
Marcus,
Ingratiates? Grateful for what? Please explain?
I’m big enough to fight my own batles and all this does not even rank as a skirmish.
Now we have someone in the front line who has written a phd and she is firing blanks. It must be that old negation of thought virus that has short-circuited these attackers’ brains.
Lokesh,
Spoken like a true hero and it is good for your growth.
I do my suspecting like you. Behind every hero lies a mother complex? As they say what’s the matter with mother?
maybe we all need few puffs of nitrous oxide or better still some fresh air !
Kavita,
What Rajni was posting was indeed fresh air.
i dont know what to say / write to that roman
Without doubt, Lokesh brings salt on the site, and sometime this salt hurts the naked wounds!
What about the naked lunch? You could learn a thing or two from old Bill Burroughs, Shantam.
Arpana declares, ‘Lokesh uses this site to flaunt his ego.’
Wrong again, it’s simply a fun thing. I have many better places to flaunt my ego, the rubbish dump, the cemetery, outside the local hospice etc.
Sorry i was just passing and unfortunately my hot air balloon has sprung a leak.. i was on my way to a sherlock holmes convention for truth sleuthing.. and wouldn’t you know i came down with a bump…
look all i need is for everyone to keep blogging, together for about half an hour.. but together ,mind, to get me back up to where i belong… i’ll be forever grateful….plenty of hot air is needed so keep posting…
ps you’ve got to hand it to dharmen and parmartha.. they do a fine job keeping us focused on what’s important in blog land…. if it wasn’t for people like them England wouldn’t be England.. why it’s people like them who put the spirit into spirituality .. the young people of today don’t know how hard it was being growthful, oh yes.. Why Sir Parmartha Conan Doyle, the famous sleuth trooper, and fine blaggard and book binder.. put mighty Blighty on the psychic map..even if i say so myself.. you know dear ol P is too bashful to admit, but in his collection he has a spy glass with the engraving handed down to him from his great Uncle Conan the Librarian, which states
‘
to dear young ol P, with much intrepidity and fulsomeness of inquiry in all things dastardly and confabulating..best , Uncle Conan.. (and in smaller embossed writing property of Norwich central Library , please do not remove A.D 1985′ )
Hear, hear, elementary, of course, but I’m all in favour of the hot air convention. I say, pass the pipe.
Let us accept, Buddha was a perfect Enlightened one..So what?
Similarly Osho has a command over the words but quite an incomplete master, so what?
If one can find the better one, why not…?
During my early years of sannyas, when i was reading just his books, it was fascinating to see how he is willing to bring a new breath into the religious world. One of His points was, religions have the entry but no exit, His sannyas has both the doors, if you want to leave, nobody will stop you..Almost like IKEA, buy the product, use it also and still if you are not satisfied bring it back within 90 days.
Fundamental question is not whether the Buddha is better, Jesus or Osho or some alive man from youtube, question is whether disciples have got the capability to bring new solutions to the old and complex problems of life.
Through one Bible, Christians have given as much as they could during last two thousand years. Do we the sannyasins have the capacity to offer better model to conduct life or has meditation become just an alternative to Prozac?!
Maybe we can contemplate over this?
Shantam, others might try but you’re still the champ….’Maybe we can contemplate over this?’
Do you honestly believe that anyone around here is so daft or bored as to do what you are suggesting?
You really are a comedian.
When i think i can think like you, immeditaly my being says, it is better to suffer in hell than to think like him!
Have you converted from radical Hindu to a suffering Christian?
This is the story, inner life story..
One happily married person finally takes an appointment with a shrink.
” I have a peculiar problem. i am unable to forget my ex. wife?”, patient says.
“OK. Was she very beautiful?”, enquires the shrink.
“Yes and No. the thing is as i know a bit of psychology. Freud has said, every man looks for a woman who is like his mother. right”?
“Yes. So your ex. was not like your mother?”, shrink enquires.
“In many ways she was like my mother. but well, her bust was not as big as my mother´s. Maybe that is why I was not fully happy with her”. Patient feels relived to bring it out.
” OK. I understand. As i read your bio. you are happily married. so i presume your new wife has all that what was lacking in your ex-wife?”, psychiatrist asks in a very profound tone.
“Yes..it is true..only problem is every time i am in bed with my lovely wife. i am occupied with the thought, why my ex. has small tits!”
Is this a Koan?
yep its okoan with me..
but on second or even third thoughts i think he’s making a serious point in which case i shall have to feel offended and continue this blog for another two hundred and eighty posts… did i ever tell you about my theory of Osho’s rolls royces..
well anyway , fill your slippers and stuff your pipe and get comfy…..
once upon a time there were some rolls royces .. a man with a beard and lots of acolytes (you can get them in Halfords they’re very good for spare car parts)…
tum tee tum tee tum , etc, nirvana,…. master of oneself, ‘…avin a laugh,….. he did what ? …..red neck farmers and a stupid housewife ……
and they all lived happily ever after….
to be continued…..
re. why arent there many women on sannyasnews?
well,if you look at it, enlightenment has always been a bit of a boys club ..and some fairly odd boys at that.
take our osho… altho boasting on primetime tv about about how many birds he`d pulled on trains and planes etc ,in fact could never really own up to the one girlfriend he did have(caretaker).
or gurdjieff,who after preaching abstinence and chanelling the energy into killing yaks on tibetan hillsides for years,suddenly hit the bottle and dropped his pants and went on a massive stag night which he then later regretted for the rest of his life…
and it seems that ol` bedi baba maharaj nisargatta learnt everything he knew about advaita down the bombay red light area –”thou art twat”.
and there was his mate,ramesh,the “enlightened banker”,well, say no more…
krishnamurti derided sex in his public talks,all the while secretly banging his secretary`s wifebehind his back.
ol` rumi,who is flavour of the month these days was obviously gay as a badger,banging on about his boyfriend all the time in his poems…
and ramana ,well,he was never likely to pull with that underpants thing,was he?
so,all you would-be celebrity mystic wags (wives and girlfriends)my advice would be,get yourself a proper bloke and you might avoid wasting the next 3 or 4 decades of your life like these wasters here at jackass news…….
Frank,
Thanks for this post. You no doubt have read ‘Living in the Shadows of J.Krishnamurti’, where the daughter of that poor woman exposed the whole sordid saga including the abortions her mother was forced to undergo. It is an interesting book.
Someone else mentioned Paul Brunton, the darling of those on the spiritual path during the 60s. In ‘My Father’s Guru’, Jeffrey Masson wrote about his bizzare upbringing with the unstable Brunton, meeting Ramana and being forced to study sanskrit. Masson went onto becoming a psychoanalyst who admitted to sleeping with over 1,000 patients. He thought the profession and playing guru was ridiculous and was finally deregistered. These days Masson is a vegan and an animal rights activist. He admits that no longer exploits women.
masson “admitted” shagging all those women did he? i bet they didnt have to water-board him to get that piece of info!
mind you,his “against therapy” is worth a read.
he hung out with ug krishnamurti,too,but they ended up having a slanging match—those guys would have been right at home at jackass news.
brunton was a wally as well..a complete prototype for the suburban mini-guru,scamming the bored gullible middle-classes by trying to make out he had a special link to underpants-man and various other imaginary cosmic forces…
thou art twat,for sure
and the stoned hippies lapped up his bollock-rot.
to be fair,it was all grist for the enlightentertainment mill,tho`….
j krishnamurti went on and on against organised religion and then did the one thing they all do,bullshit about sex.
he just couldnt shake off the ghost of old bishop meatbeater,i guess.
sad.
but hey,with no bad guys and no sad,you don`t have a story,right?
Is it on Kindle.
‘ try being a woman on this site? ‘….from rajni…
right …i took your advice and told my girlfriend its all in a good cause…i’ve overstretched her tights, the bra strap has got caught around my midriff, the lipstick is smeared on so well that my lips looks like i’ve had a transplant with a rubber sink plunger, the heels are chafing me blind, my mascara is running and i’m looking in the mirror and feel like i’m in a scene from a joanie crawford film…
but if it helps SN get some energy balancing…. then there’s nothing I wouldn’t do for Osho’s vision…
‘Ma’ Prem Martyn – for your true dedication to the ‘vision’, I salute you and offer up this small gift ; )
The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.
Rajni,
A beautiful gift and what a voice. If only the men listened to Cassandra.
Rajni,
That clip you sent, The ending of ‘Some like it Hot’ is brilliant and another part which stands out is where Jack Lemmon becomes so involved in his female role that Tony Curtis ( who has earlier told him, ‘Remember, you’re a girl’ ) eventually has to warn him ‘Remember, you’re a man’ ( ‘I’m a man, I’m a man, I’m a man,’ Lemmon moans to himself, trying to drill it in).
Gender is after all a performance and a construct which if I remember rightly you posted earlier. What a performance by Sheela in contrast to Laxmi. Perhaps the reason why Osho attracted so many women was his performance of the feminine. Amazing the roles he played, consider how Osho appeared in the Mt. Abu days. I know he’s talked about the changes in his physical body. I think it was in ‘Dimensions Beyond the Known’.
By the way if you somehow have never seen this film rent it for the night and laugh out loud.
Did you ever get interested in the Tarot Roman.
In terms of Archetype.
Easy to ascribe so many of the Major arcana to him, if not all. (Someone who knows more about it than I do probably could. )
Arpana,
We have about 7 decks here. I haven’t used them for years. But just for fun, just then my partner pulled a card from the Rajneesh Neo-Tarot and guess what? It was the Number One card – Bhagwan. Yes, I was into the whole archetypal ‘stuff’ for some years. By the Bhagwan card was pulled for you.
Arpana, By the way I meant by the way the Bhagwan card was pulled for you.
For example he played the role of hermit, wise man with his long beard and simple robe, in P, but in Oregon he played the role of Emperor, Hierophant. I mean look at those eastern potentate robes. Like a Caliph.
For example he played the role of Hermit, wise man with his long beard and simple robe in Poona one, but in Oregon he played the role of Emperor, Hierophant.
I mean look at those eastern potentate robes. Like a Caliph!!
All depends. Some might say he played the role of buffoon in Oregon. In Poona one he might not have had a fleet of rollers but his bearing was far more regal. Perhaps watching the’Ten Commandnents’ repeatedly helped create his fashion sense and need for so many chariots.
ol mcdonald had a farm
eeya eeya O
& in that farm he had many swans
eeya eeeya O
a who who here & a who who there
here a who there a who
& everywhere a who who
ol mcdonald had a farm
eeya eeya O
then one day ol mcdonald left
eeya eeya O
with a no one here & a no one there
& everywhere a no one
eeya eeya O
Once there was a man, who created one of the finest chain of hotels, resorts and Spa. He had 21,000 employees, all were very contented to work for such a boss. One amazing this about this humble man was, no where it was mentioned when he was born, only mention was the day when he got the master´s degree in Hotel management. His famous quotation is, “What i am is because of my professional education”
So every year on that particular day, all the management and staff members will stand on the main entrance of the office in their crisp dresses, and will say when the boss will arrive, ” Good morning Sir, have a very nice day. What would you like Tea or Coffee?”
Surely that day was not 21st March….
This is the day when a middle class Indian, yes middle class not some Royal blood like Gautama The Buddha became one with the universe and we(does not mean all) Got OSHO as our Master….
Osho is The One, who planted Master Disicple seed in the west, where master was always related in corelation with slave!
Shree Shantam says, not for the first time, ‘Osho is The One, who planted Master Disicple seed in the west, where master was always related in corelation with slave!’
It might be about time to read something other than Osho books. I say this because your statement is untrue and uneducated.
if the only problem was discussing whether you were one or two there wouldn’t a problem
typical day at the oshwash launderette..
1st finder:You know what?
2nd Seeeker :What?
1: I’m one !
2; Are you?
1:Yes definitely.. but you’re two?
2: No I’m not !
1: Oh yes you are.. you are.. you are …you are!
2: I’m not ,I’m one too.
1: I’m telling you I’m one and..
2: I’m two?
1: Correct !
2: How about one and a half?
1: I’m seriously offended and this is beyond the joke.. if you don’t watch it I won’t be one anymore…!
2: Oh alright then , you’re one and… i’m not
1: Loser !!
The concept of oneness is paradoxical in that it denies the individuality of the one who created the idea in the first place.
What can be said at all can be said clearly, and what we cannot talk about we must pass over in silence —Ludwig Wittgenstein
you just said something….you did you did…. i saw you type aloud.. that’s cheating… i think what Witlessstein meant was ‘shut up’ or get back in the flat bottomed boat,…. punt.
No you saw a fascimile. Isn’t life a thing of beauty?
A joy forever?
Shantam, that you should pose the following question, ‘If one can find the better one, why not…?’, is indeed ironical. I say this because any mention of other contemporaries of Osho in the guru stakes that sannyasins felt drawn to are immediately placed in the stocks and then pelted with all kinds of personal insults by you, insults that are simply a reflection of your own personal ignorance and narrow mindedness. I don’t believe this makes any difference to anyone, least of all the people in question, but it might be something closer to home for you to contemplate. Your earlier question, quote, ‘Do we the sannyasins have the capacity to offer better model to conduct life or has meditation become just an alternative to Prozac?!, Maybe we can contemplate over this?’, is in fact relevant. In your case I’d answer to this part of your question ”Do we the sannyasins have the capacity to offer better model to conduct life ‘ a resounding NO, because you are simply another confused person who does not really know what they are saying or doing. You are not ‘a better model’. You are a product of your conditioned mind and that is why you are so caught up in your crusade for reforms, because that crusade gives you substance. You are a revolutionary not a rebel and…. Well you’ve probably read enough Osho books to know what Osho, quite brilliantly, had to say about people like yourself.
‘You call him the ‘Wittgenstein of religion’ and describe in a few broad strokes how, for him, the historical religions can only be reformulated as ‘active religious games’. You clarify the way that Osho carried out his ‘religion experiment’ and then explain why a veritable study of religion can only be born of experience but not in theoretical or discursive critiques.
With Osho, the great religious entertainer, it becomes possible to encounter a type of critique unlike any to be found in theology seminars………………..
He ‘radicalised’ religion in a chemical sense. He was, in some respects, the century’s most extreme and most ironic Buddhist. Seeingly his ambition was to apply the principles of the avant-garde to the religious field’.
The quote comes from a series of interviews with Peter Sloterdijk who is probably Europe’s most read critical thinker. He met Osho during his seven year sojourn in India during the 70′s. Sloterdijk can quote you anyone but always introduces Osho when mixing with some of the best minds on the planet and he upsets people. He became president of the State Academy of Design at the Center for Art and Media in Karlsruhe Germany.
I’m quoting from ‘Neither Sun Nor Death’. His latest trilogy is demanding but brilliant and much acclaimed. He is published by MIT who don’t publish crap. Sloterdijk said he will publish something on his time in India and his experiences with Osho. Lets hope he gets around to it soon. Anyone planning to write on Osho will, from what I hear, have a few interesting competitors.
wow. dick van sloterdyke is back.
he`s the toppermost of the poppermost!
“the century`s most ironic buddhist”?
(spoken in a dreadful american cockney accent)
what absolute post-modern bollocks.
i love it
Frank,
I thought you would. Nice to hear from you.
Which one do you think is humorous?
1. If we laugh at a third person
2. If you laugh at yourself
3. If you can get someone else to laugh at themselves.
roman,
ha! trick question.
none of the above.
humorous is a small bone on the end of your elbow
some say
1 is english humour
and
2 is jewish humour
3 is a bit of a combination of 1 and 2,but more unusual,really
but if you could combine all three at the same time i would say that could well be some kind of comedy enlightenment.
4) all those who think seriousness is worth studying…
As a counterbalance:
There is not a single original idea to be found in the verbose and self-indulgent arguments that run throughout Critique of Cynical Reason. Not surprisingly, Sloterdijk’s excavation of the Enlightenment concludes that its logical endpoint is the Christian tradition of unhappiness and the nuclear bomb.
Lokesh,
I’ll let him know. I thought his style was neither too excess or deficient. He’ll no doubt take on board your timely words. Thankyou.
They weren’t my words. I’d never heard of the guy till you blew his trumpet. (googled him) I’m more a Billy Connelly, George Carlin man myself.
Lokesh,
They are great. Take care
now . . . guess its not passover time as yet . . . clearly theres a lot of indirection going on
Kavita, seeing as how you have recognized this perhaps you’d care to direct us…that is, if you are willing to give up your noncommittal position on that fence you’ve probably been sitting on for your entire adult life.
your Holiness Loki ji . . . this is reference in to rajni’s comment : ” Instead of responding directly to Roman’s post on Nietzsche and relativism you instead throw your indirect response at Kavita.”
later roman’s :” Kavita,What Rajni was posting was indeed fresh air.”
me : ” i dont know what to say / write to that roman
”
& then roman’s : ”What can be said at all can be said clearly, and what we cannot talk about we must pass over in silence —Ludwig Wittgenstein ”
” if you are willing to give up your noncommittal position on that fence you’ve probably been sitting on for your entire adult life.” – that may not be entirely untrue
my boyfriend does feel Iam the least conditioned person he has ever met . . whatever that means
‘my boyfriend does feel I am the least conditioned person he has ever met . . ‘
Perhaps he should try and get out a little more.
I’ll tell him that
Yes, it would be good if you do that…expand his horizons and all that.
well if I know him he is not interested in expanding his horizons anymore verticals perhaps
There is an interesting series on German TV just now titeled ‘Soulcatchers’. It is running for a week. Tonight it covers Jehovas Witnesses. Whenever it is advertised there is a flash of orange-clad sannyasins and then Osho’s face. I suspect he will be topping the bill. Well put together documentaries about cults and cult leaders. Is sannyas a cult? Could be a good topic for a new thread…anyone interested?
phew! we still havent worked out yet whether osho was the master of masters here to help the universe on its way to total and irrefutable transcendence by every move he made,however cranky it looked ,
or a self-obsessed whipped cream addled pill-popper and bling-loving petrol head,looking after number one…..
(or in some kind of mysterious and magical yin/yang way a perfect mix of the two)
and now we have to decide whether sannyas is a cult…
this is fun.
ok here goes.
“cult” is a word which,like “hypnosis” for example ,denotes loosely a state of being that occur in in human beings.
so,just as hypnotists say everyone is familiar with hypnosis when driving a car or getting engrossed in a story etc,that is,in a non-formal hypnosis way….
then being cultish can happen anywhere some families,classrooms,workplaces and football teams are are cultlike,whereas some religions and even cults are at times,less so.
so cultishness can be recognised as a social quality not specific to “religious cults” in the normal sense of the word,but more widely occuring.
this understood,being in a cult would not in itself have to attract a negative judgement.
again,”homosexuality”
that was a word that still equates with “evil” in many parts of the world,indeed it was illegal in the the uk until very sortly before osho started his “mission”,yet now,if you abuse or insult a gay person in uk you can be arrested.
homosexuality hasnt changed-its still guys and gals doing it with guys and gals…
just now they say i`m proud to be gay.
yes,sannyas is a cult.
it (used to be,anyway) the best cult in town,bar none.
lets come out of the closet,
cult pride.
there`s nothing wrong with it.
if you`ve got it,flaunt it…..
someone asked me at a party,the other day:
“you were in that cult with the rolls royces werent you? what was it like?”
i said: “it was fucking excellent mate,i had the time of my life,i never got enlightened but i had a great laugh, and did some crazy shit,met some great folks and now i know the kind of assholes i need to avoid for the rest of my life, and oh, learned to sit quietly in a room doing nothing but watching my breath……you shoulda come along,i`d reccomend joining a good cult for pretty much anyone..”
“joining a cult sounds pretty good,then”he said
“definitely,my freind,definitely..”
Frank, most enjoyable read. Thanks
PS Which Frank are you.
the one with an identity crisis.
i`m wandering around the house in me underwear mumbling “who am i?”…
Sounds like you are on the right track…ehm…I mean spiritual path.
its not spelt with an L frank…
martyn ,
your probably right.
btw “parmartha conan doyle”
that was a good one.
What a topic! Lets really get down to business. ‘I would like to make a futher motion: let us dispense with the flute-girl who just made her entrance; let her play for herself or, if she prefers, for the women in the house. Let us instead spend our evening in conversation.’ Plato head of the RSL.
Shantam,You are revolutionary, not a rebel….thus spoke Lokesh.
Seems like he has a list in his (un) conditioned mind about all the shoe shelf boxes, and “Rebel” the expansive brand of shoes have only one size, Size which fits to Lokesh.
Definitely i don´t mind to walk bare foot!
Second point, i still say, if people find something better; better spouse, better job, better country, better guru they should go for it. My only criticism is when they want to dry their used condoms and dirty laundry on ex. partners roof top! This is a bit too unaesthetic and unethical in my opinion.
My story of yesterday, the Koan about the ex. wife´s bust is based on such characters.
Leave the bridge, but then don´t come back simply to complain about the price of the rice!
I was just reading the other day that Osho was anti-Semetic, although he enjoyed the use of money donated by Jewish sannyasins. Shantam, seeing as how you have often voiced racist sentiments on this site could you perhaps shed some light on this and please don´t come back simply to complain about the price of the rice!
i heard that osho loved the joke
Q why do jews have big noses?
A cos the air`s free
i dont know if that makes him antisemitic.
but its not the most sophisticated joke i ever heard round the back of the bikeshed aged 9.
Objection Objection!!
I wonder how my esteemed colleague Lokesh is trying to be an smart ass by saying that Osho was an anti Semitic.
To check the exact meaning of this very often used term, i have checked the definition in Google-
“The belief or behavior hostile toward Jews just because they are Jewish. It may take the form of religious teachings that proclaim the inferiority of Jews, for instance, or political efforts to isolate, oppress, or otherwise injure them. It may also include prejudiced or stereotyped views about Jews”
“Complete mischievousness” to term Osho in such category..
Any way, many times i have seen and pointed that Lokesh has no up to date information about Sannyas, Osho and His head quarters in Pune.
During the last 15 years, Israeli nationals are one of the biggest arrivals to Osho´s Pune. May be it was their presence which triggered the German bakery attack. Few of the top most Osho therapists are regulars in Israel.
If these people have not found any thing objectionable in Osho, why this man Lokesh?
I request him to visit Pune during his next Asian trip and be my guest too. It can be a visit to memory lane and also to get first hand knowledge about Osho work´s peaks and vallies..
I reiterate again..It is ridiculous to use anti Semitic attitude with Osho and His work.
Shantam, you did not read what I wrote, quote, ‘I was just reading the other day that Osho was anti-Semetic, although he enjoyed the use of money donated by Jewish sannyasins.’ I did not say he was anti-Semitic.
Anyway, just for the record, I print out a portion of what I read.
”For all his professed love of Jewish people, Deeksha confided to me bitterly, Bhagwan was virulently anti-Semitic. ‘Jews are so ugly,’ he’d remark after private conferences with rich Jewish sannyasins at the castle [in New Jersey]…. ‘Such ugly noses Jews have.’… ‘His adulation of Hitler was disgusting,’ Deeksha insisted. ‘He used to boast to Sheela and me that he’d succeed where Hitler failed.’¡
I’m not Jewish so I don’t take this personally. As they say, ‘It takes a Jew to make the money and a Scot to hang on to it.’
Was Osho antisemitic? Didn’t look like it to me, he may well of said ‘things’ in private, who doesn’t about something. Trouble is, when people start spilling family secrets, it puts things right out there, for people to kick about like footballs. People end up with a few sentences that are totally out of context from their origins. Of course this all relates to what kinda behviour were going to let our enlighten chappies have, well, clearly if we expect Saints, then thats going to exclude quite a few. I got my own ‘they can’t be enligtened if they did ‘that’!’ But what about Osho, was he enlightened from 1953 til his death? Of course, this begs the question, ‘What is enlightenment?’ If we get going on that, we might be here a while. From Wikapedia, def of enliglitenment, ‘a final blessed state free from ignorance, desire and suffering’. Everybody agree? Well there you go…
More to say, but things to do…
On the matter of the legitimacy of a guru, recent Western history (past century or so) is rife with many entertaining examples worthy of looking at (if only because of how influential they were — for example, how many people who ultimately came to Osho were influenced initially by one or more of the following?):
1. Blavatsky and the ‘Mahatmas’
2. Frederick Oliver and ‘Phylos the Tibetan’
3. The Golden Dawn and the ‘Secret Chiefs’
4. Aleister Crowley, Aiwass, and The Book of the Law
5. Gurdjieff, Beelzebub, and the ‘Sarmoung Brotherhood’
6. Guy Ballard (Godfre Ray King) and ‘St. Germain’
7. Alice Bailey and ‘Djwhal Kul the Tibetan’
8. The Urantia Book
9. T. Lobsang Rampa and the ‘Tibetan masters’
10. Carlos Castaneda and ‘Don Juan’
11. Whitley Strieber and the ‘Visitors’
12. Marlo Morgan and the ‘Mutant Message from Down Under’
13. James Redfield and the ‘Celestine Prophecy’
14. Neil Donald Walsche and ‘God’
15. Gary Renard, A Course in Miracles, and the ‘Ascended Masters’
Most of the above were probably literary frauds (or naive), with the possible exception, in my opinion, of Crowley, Gurdjieff, and Strieber (although, how Strieber interpreted his ‘aliens’/shamanic experiences was another matter).
Compared to these very influential writers/gurus, Osho was of an entirely different caliber, but arguably, he was as much of a rascal, if not more. For instance, Osho’s well known penchant for contradicting himself, and for some of the things outlined in Lokesh’s opening essay. Eastern crazy-wisdom teachers like Chogyam Trungpa, Adi Da Samraj, and U.G. Krishnamurti gave him a run for his money, but none were as spectacular. Osho was unique in his combination of striking wisdom and seemingly strange behaviors.
Maybe the key question that Lokesh wrote in his piece above is this one:
“I ask you, do you think that you need to indulge in such pastimes [referring to cars, watches, etc.] when living in cosmic consciousness 24/7? From what I’ve seen of cosmic consciousness you don’t need any of those distractions,because that is just what they are…distractions.”
I sometimes get the sense that Existence is engaged in a game of seeking/giving attention. The Western writers listed above were all involved in creating outrageous scenarios — massive distractions, in a sense — allegedly involving advanced spiritual beings, so that they could grab the attention of their sought audience, sell their books, and perhaps even help some people, however indirectly. Rascal gurus like Osho were also clearly involved in the game of seeking attention, which is arguably necessary in a world gone to sleep. But without question the Rolls (for example) deflected attention — kept people away — more than they drew people to him.
Chogyam Trungpa once claimed that the reason he drank highballs of gin before his daily lecture was that he was ‘pacifying kleshas’, that is, controlling the ‘demons’ (negative emotions) of human ego, by embodying them. Osho’s Rolls would, in that context, be a means by which greed/materialism is embodied, experienced directly. The best possible result for those around him (us) would then be to recognize our own materialistic greed, envy, etc.
That said, experiencing Osho was a great opportunity to abandon, once and for all, the puritan conditioning. His opposite was probably Ramana Maharshi, who had a loincloth and some monkeys. One was an active bodhisattva, the other passive. Unquestionably Osho had the tougher role. Most of the Ramana scholars who have had something to say about Osho have been negative in their assessment (like James Swartz, whose book ‘How to Attain Enlightenment’ is probably one of the best around). Osho will always provoke people’s conditioning, which is valuable if it is recognized as that.
‘But without question the Rolls (for example) deflected attention — kept people away — more than they drew people to him.’
Surely, in part that was the point.
Arpana, if you look into various reports about behind-the-scenes Osho world you will find that the emphasis was always on attracting people, not keeping them away.
Your thinking ties in with the idea of ‘doublespeak’.(1984) I was having a laugh with someone yesterday about the comment someone posted on this thread about how Osho might have been using laughing gas to weed out those not needed for his work. This is of course patently absurd, unless Osho’s work was tied up with giving himself braindamage. Listening to you it is simple to see how one becomes ‘a true believer’, taking on the required beliefs to attain the desired emotionl kick. It might be wise to bear in mind that thinking like yours creates a closed mental system that becomes impregnable to facts, experiences and contradiction that threaten one’s dream world, even though those things might be true, which is ironic seeing as how your initial contact with Osho had no doubt to do with a search for truth.
Stop waving your ego at me.
I am not that certain about anything to do with sannyas, to do with Osho.
You are an ideologue. A dogmatist.
You will not browbeat me into taking on your ideas.
Arpana, you say, ‘I am not that certain about anything to do with sannyas, to do with Osho.’
Although stating the obvious that is a step in the right direction that you admit this.
Such comments as, ‘Stop waving your ego at me.’ give away the fact that you are a novice, because that is kids stuff. This site gives you an opportunity to clarify your ideas and relate with some intelligent people. In my opinion you are completely missing this opportunity.
All these ‘ego’ type comments are so old hat they will at the very best only succeed in raising a few yawns. In other words…boring.
you are a novice, because that is kids stuff. This site gives you an opportunity to clarify your ideas and relate with some intelligent people. In my opinion you are completely missing this opportunity.
so old hat they will at the very best only succeed in raising a few yawns. In other words…boring.’
Arpana,
I’ve always enjoined reading Dutch Amrito’s (Jan Foundraine) take on Osho. He has always maintained that the Rolls Royces were a publicity stunt. There would have been 365. It certainly hurt people. The established churches were in uproar particularly the Catholics.
I tend to agree with you that it keep people away but because of the cars ‘a little known Indian mystic’ was on the front pages of newspapers and known through all corners of the world. You no doubt remember the Life magazine spread. Suddenly the whole world was talking about these orange people.
I have the impression the Rollers were, in part, a way of getting rid of people who were going nowhere, and to exclude people who he wouldn’t be able to do any work with, and who would get in the way.
The mala’s and red clothes worked, in part, that way, and I’ve also wondered if the requirement for an AIDS certificate, apart from the obvious, isn’t also a useful way of keeping people out, who aren’t going to go for it.
‘I have the impression the Rollers were, in part, a way of getting rid of people who were going nowhere,’
Didn’t work very well did it?
Indeed not.
Another great piece of writing from Teertha. Sort of thing that makes sannyasnews worthwhile.
The Urantia Book. I wonder how many here have read it. I always tell people that part three of the book is a fantastic piece of creative writing. It fallows the life of Christ from preconception until he shows up with holes in his hands. Highly recommended.
I found the rest of the book unremarkable, although I doubt that only one person wrote it. Quite a tome.
I always enjoyed Castaneda….’everyone you meet is a spider spinning a web’, is a kind of quote from one of his books that could apply to SN.
so spitituality is basically a creative bullshitting operation,then.
enLIEtentertainment.
i can relate to that.
and it gives creative imaginitive oddballs,fantasists,blaggers a chance to get taken seriously,some attention,get a job,even…
a kind of cosmic socio-spiritual security system.
the truth is lies are fun.
do you remember the old hindu story,its in the sanyasnews backpages
“the greatest pleasure known to man?”
that was about that.
the truth is lies are fun. Not only that they are perfectly alright if they work towards…..ehm….please fill in the blanks.
all the pompous asses gathered together on sn
so this is what it is all about . . .
then today shall be declared as ” the day of recon-ing ”
Are you attending a class on writing style being taught by Shantam? What on earth ar you talking about?
no dear . . btw I include myself in the gang of PA’s
you cant be right every time Lokesh . . . infact nobody can
aren’t you being over enthusiastic about responding to nearly every post . . . you do seem to be a very responsible
person but guess you taking it too far
dont worry dear you are the king & master atleast of your
own world & dont you forget so are each one of us
You ask, ‘aren’t you being over enthusiastic about responding to nearly every post’. Not really. It has been raining fr the past few days, so I amuse myself. Nice spring weather now and just taking a break from knocking down concrete pillars. Tea break.
‘dont worry dear you are the king & master atleast of your
own world & dont you forget so are each one of us’
If I wasn’t a gentleman I’d say you were a patronizing so ‘n’ so
isn’t it a bit unjust . . . you get a poetic license to say whatever & get away with it . . . as though each one here is getting exactly what its meant to . . be /convey . . . first of all its the moderaters one has to go through & then you
What I find myself asking about you, Kavita, is what are ou playing at?
Every once in a while you chuck in random comments, some of which make no sense. You share very little about yourself etc. Of all the bloggers on this site you contribute the least. When I tell you that I would appreciate if you used language I could understand when you address me you respond by saying…fill in the blanks if you don’t understand.
Have you any idea how flakey that sounds? Now you are talking about it being a bit unjust. Gimme a break.
If you are indeed writng a doctorate I hope it is at least a little more coherant than your norm here on SN, where your role is that of some kind of noncommittal voyeur, which is no problem by me but I still find myself asking why you even bother to log in.
you know what Lokesh . . . actually I share as much as I can and so what if i made a spelling mistake . . . are you going to cut my marks for that
that’s a good question ” where your role is that of some kind of noncommittal voyeur, which is no problem by me but I still find myself asking why you even bother to log in.” – what do you want me to commit to
that I havent commited to & yes even I wonder what Iam doing here but when I do know I’ll tell you . . if you are still around . . . Iam sorry that SN doesn’t have a’ hide ‘ facility like they do on fb now so until then you shall have to bear with me
Well, at least you responded, more than can be said for some.
just needed to tell . . . my inner thermostat tells me I need to cool it off longer this time . . . so if the full moon comes / whatever . . . dont call for me
. . . injoy the rain & knocking down pillars . . .
The rolls royces weren’t my primary focus.. because despite rumours to the contrary and attempts at explaining how… you couldn’t shag one….in one maybe . It terms of attraction its only cults who need to drive in one….( my stuck keyboard next to the b comes out as an L )
Bet you tried though Marty.
(>_<)
After living with Western people and in Western countries from the time Osho came back to India, one thing i notice time and again, people from the West and Indians have a very different attitude with words and sentences.Few sentences which are used as a humour, as satire as irony, they Will try to find the jurisprudence meaning into it, thereby kill the jokes and poetry by understanding with prose attitude..
I try to explain this with one example. I have heard Indian mothers cursing the children, ” Moya, mar janeya….Tu marega tab meri jaan chutegi” It means…”you corpse..when you die..only then i will have peace”. Nobody takes this in literal sense, but understand the desperation behind..
If western listen this..he will call to 911!
Has this not happened with Osho, his words and nodes, i doubt.
Here lies the paradigm.
How that phase of Osho´s life can have some mystical meaning, where Lokesh was not present!
No..Nono..It can´t be.
By the mid-éighties I realized my time with Osho was over. I spent seven wonderful years with him and then five years disengaging from the sannyasin game role reality in a process I see in retrospect as natural. Thanks in part to Osho I found a fantastic partner, who I still have the good fortune to be with. I talked to Osho on numerous occasions and he had the patience to listen to what I had to say. In his presence I experienced things that I have never experienced with another human being. Thanks in part to Osho I learned what it means to be a light unto yourself. Thanks in part to Osho I no longer experience the need to go to authoritarian figures, asking for answers to life’s deeper questions, and on the rare occasions that I do it is more out of curiosity than anything else. When I listen to the rot that people spout, who somehow believe they have a deep connection with Osho today and never actually sat with him face to face, I see that I was very fortunate to spend the time that I did with him while he was in a body, wherein I had his undivided attention and a friendly finger to point me in what I now know was the right direction.
I ask you, what more can one ask of another man than his friendship and wise council? There is no need for me to cling to some image of him today, for Osho became a part of me, just as anyone who you loved does.
I’m not in a competition with anyone, except perhaps myself. If someone thinks they are finding some mystical meaning within some kind of relationship with a man who has been dead for over twenty years good for them. Each to their own. If I were in the same position, looking for mystical meanings and connections, I would seek out a living teacher. It is a fallacy that there are no more enlightened people in a position to give guidance and help to aspirants. The truth is that whenever a genuine seeker needs spiritual guidance the guru will appear in human form. All that is needed is the eyes to see. For others there might simply be no need of that which is within and only manifests externally to us because we still have not realized that. Some are blessed with a life in which they are content and have no need of such things. Others think it is all bullshit.
The meaning of life is to live and through living totally we will hopefully die a good death, for it is only through living life to the max that we will one day be able to let go of it.
You can call it Osho, God, tao or whatever you wish. Personally I don’t need a name. You either have that connection or you don’t.
It is a simple thing for me to conjure up Osho’s spirit. In a flash I can be sitting at his feet, looking up into his eyes and digging the vibe. The thing is, one must learn to distiguish what is sentimentality and what is real. Osho was not a sentimental man and although not as cool as him I am not particularly sentimental either.
I don’t need to be present at any external reality to get the big picture. I simply have to be present here and now.
If someone thinks they are finding some mystical meaning within some kind of relationship with a man who has been dead for over twenty years good for them. Each to their own. If I were in the same position, looking for mystical meanings and connections, I would seek out a living teacher. It is a fallacy that there are no more enlightened people in a position to give guidance and help to aspirants. The truth is that whenever a genuine seeker needs spiritual guidance the guru will appear in human form. All that is needed is the eyes to see. For others there might simply be no need of that which is within and only
Perhaps relevant here that Osho himself stated that it’s not possible to be in communion with a dead Master, saying one should seek a living Master. I was surprised to read this and I bet some will simply say he also said the opposite…
Still, the quote is somewhere among the Darshan Diary pages Teertha put on here, March 17, 10.10pm.
Above Darshan Diary pages are at:
http://www.livingworkshop.net/PDF-files/dd-The_Buddha_Disease.pdf
(But you’ll have to search for this quote)
satyadeva… i have asked the editors of ‘Feeling Myself Blessed’ the coffee table all new oshonewnews that’s newer than ever magazine to gloss over your remarks casting arsepersions on people who like me feel themselves permanently .If it wasn’t for people like me …. actually thanks SD there isn’t anyone like me… then you would find Guru’s without a job …all enlightened without anyone to redeem… its thanks to people like me who keep tuned into them night and day…without even knowing it… that life is so much better than it is..
alles is klaar ja ?
If a disciple is ready, even a dead master can be alive. If the disciple is not ready, then even a living
master cannot do anything. It all depends on the disciple.
Osho.
From the False to the Truth
Chapter #1
So always seek a living Master. A dead Master is of no use — because a dead Master means nothing but
a dead teaching. Always seek a living Master. But it is very difficult because people’s minds are very slow.
By the time you come to recognise somebody as a Master he is gone. This is the difficulty. By the time you
recognise that Jesus is a Master, Jesus is no longer there. Then there are only Christians, then there are
churches, then there are the Pope and the priest, and they catch hold of you.
Osho.
The Art of Dying
Chapter #6
I recall Osho once saying, in Kathmandu, Nepal in 1986 (I was there) that when he died, sannyasins should seek out another master. He was adamant he didn’t want his movement turned into a religion.
Shortly after, he left for Greece, and his infamous World Tour began. One wonders if he wasn’t foreshadowing the drama that was about to unfold, by seemingly pointing sannyasins elsewhere should he die. Then again, maybe this was a message only for the Nepali sannyasins and the handful of Westerners who were with him at the time.
With Osho, everything is a Zen koan.
All very well saying “everything is a Zen koan”, no doubt a fascinating puzzle to ponder over, but another way of looking at it is that it’s simply very confusing and unhelpful.
I don’t experience him as dead Teertha.
I sat in front of him a couple of times, spoke to him once, both times without my glasses, so I couldn’t see him properly anyway. I never sat in the front row.
I took sannyas in the west, before I went to the ashram, so he’s always been internalised.
Rationally I know he’s ‘dead’, but we could have a discussion about dead, what that means.
Are D &T dead, who went to Australia thirty years ago, who I’ve never seen since. We exchange the occasional letter. Osho looms a thousand times larger in my life than they do, and I still consider them friends. They will never not be significant to me. ????
Arpana, how do you know what you are experiencing is not just a projection of your mind? What do you mean when you say, ‘he’s always been internalised’? This could all be a product of your imagination. That is the difference between being with soeone who is dead and someone who is alive: a living person can say, ‘don’t kid yourself’. As for communicating with dead people…not something Osho encouraged while alive so why would he do ii when he is dead? How about answering my questons instead of avoiding them with tired cliches.
Whilst chopping wood the other day, I wondered if Osho’s comments about it signalling the end for an Indian guru when they head to the USA had been edited out of existence. He also spoke about how he would guide people to other masters when he died, although people like Shantam somehow can’t bring themselves to acknowledge this for one reason or another. Of course nobody actually knows if this did happen or not, but at the time I was very touched by his words. When in full flight he was a great orator.
Lokesh . . . congratulations for being the only one & still living with your trophy
Sounds like you have graduated from Shantam’s writing class with honours. Please, when replying to something I’ve written, try and say clearly what you mean, or else why bother? I haven’t a clue what you are talking about.
its very simple English . . . & you can fill in the blanks whenever you dont understand . . . btw Iam studying for a doctrate
Isn’t that ‘doctorate’?
I’m not impressed.
‘Fill in the blanks when you don’t understand’…yeah..ehm duh…professor. Why didn’t I think of that?
Yes Arpana like you I find there’s many sides of sprituality….in Pune it was ‘backside ashram baba ?’ which the rickshaw driver often happily intoned with a full set of choppers gleaming under an oily sweaty sun that caused a ripple of expectation in me… to offer myself up for a fare ride with his hooter going full blast….exhausting and bone shaking going through those bumps..
It is heard, many people during last 2 thousand years reached to the final destination, it was an exhausting pilgrimage, much dreams and wishes one has to drop on the way..
But the rumour says, they were all turned back.
Reason?
No valid signature from God´s appointee on the earth. When they mention Jesus Christ, clerk on the arrival desk said, ” Mr. Jesus was recalled back long ago. You must go again and get the valid stamp and signature from the present ones.”
Moral of the story is before one takes such journey, search for the living master!
Another story says, ” once the news reached muddy island called The Earth that God has appointed some new ambassadors and they are empowered to issue transit as well as permanent resident permit into the divine kingdom; people on the earth took a sigh of relief.
Soon there were newspaper ads. almost in the style, ” Apply confidentially for American green card Lottery”.
Join our easy to follow cult. Ambassador master just returned from the new guidelines from heaven.
I am looking every day in the news sites to know the fate of those who applied visa through such agencies.
Whenever an over crowded boat is captured near Italy, i think about these brave souls, who took the risk to reach the other shore, where money is easy and snow shite women are like dolls!
(Spontaneous story dedicated too, Lokesh and Satya Deva)
Thanks, Shantam. I would have appreciated it more if I understood what you are talking about in the second part of your spontaneous story. What exctly are ‘snow shite women’?
A braggart is telling his friend about his three cars, etcetera, etcetera. When he also mentions that he has two kept mistresses in New York, but that he has made his ravishingly beautiful and terribly passionate private secretary pregnant, and must therefore take his gorgeous blond stenographer with him on his business trip to Rio de Janeiro to see the carnival, and the listener suddenly begins to pant, grabs at his own
necktie, and has a heart attack.
The braggart interrupts his tale, gets water, pats the victim on the back, etcetera, etcetera, and he asks solicitously what the matter is.
“Can I help it?” the man gasps. “I am allergic to bullshit.”
Osho
The Dhammapada: The Way of the Buddha, Vol 1
Chapter #4
Chapter title: Just lucky, I guess!
Lokesh, if you have word matching software inside, it will find out..‘snow shite women’ has one spelling mistake. Instead of w, s was typed!
It also shows, many people cannot read beyond the words, everything must be specifically explained, why not try to understand the intention of the writer..
In my case, does not really matter much whether the punch line ends with snow white women or snow shite women.. In Osho´s case, it can play havoc with disciple´s emotions!
God forbids, that day ever comes, when some sannyasin becomes president of a country. If he follows the tradition as Osho´s hand picked managers, he will always shoot quotations mostly unfitting.
Imagine, in case of recession or other unrest, ” I am here to wake up up. Not to fullfill your dreams and hopes.” kind of words..
To whom it may concern.
Ebenezer MacTavish was known to be the grumpiest farmer in the neighbourhood. One year when MacTavish’s apple crop was exceptionally good, a neighbour was confident that he would not complain.
“I’ll bet you are happy with your apple crop,” said the neighbour, “just about every one of them is a perfect apple.”
“I suppose they are alright,” replied MacTavish grudgingly,” but what am I going to do? I have got no rotten ones to feed to my pigs.”
Osho.
Satyam Shivam Sundram
Chapter #15
Chapter title: Choose the flowers, leave the thorns