Osho’s Pre-enlightenment

An Account from Sam (Prem Paritosh)

“The abyss opens its mouth, the whole existence yawns…” That was pretty much what had happened to Osho. What he later came to understand as ‘enlightenment’ was not the product of any ‘religious’ practice or way of life – in fact it took place quite outside any religious context at all. At the time he thought he was going mad…

Osho only talked about this once, in an early set of Hindi lectures, translated as Dimensions Beyond The Known. As a teenager, he said, he had been plunged into an intense adolescent crisis. Nothing seemed worthwhile any more. Nothing made sense. He tried to explore meditation, he hung out with sadhus, but none of it helped. “I doubted everything” he said. “I could not accept anyone as my teacher…I did not find anyone whom I could call my master… I wanted to respect, but I could not. I could respect rivers, mountains and even stones, but not human beings.” He read everything he could lay his hands on in his home town, then at 19 went to the big city, to Jabalpur, to study philosophy at the university.

While he was a student there his confusion got worse and worse, until finally he had a complete nervous and mental breakdown.

“It was all darkness” he said. “In every small matter there was doubt and nothing but doubt. Only questions and questions remained without any answer. In one respect I was as good as mad. I myself was afraid that anytime I might become mad. I was not able to sleep at night.

“Throughout the night and the day, questions and questions hovered around me. There was no answer to any question. I was in a deep sea, so to speak, without any boat or bank anywhere. Whatever boats had been there I had myself sunk or denied. There were many boats and many sailors, but I had myself refused to step into anyone else’s boat. I felt that it was better to drown by oneself rather than to step into someone else’s boat. If this was where life was to lead me, to drowning myself, then I felt that this drowning should also be accepted.”

“For one year” he said “it was almost impossible to know what was happening…Just to keep myself alive was a very difficult thing, because all appetite disappeared. I could not talk to anybody. In every other sentence I would forget what I was saying.” He had splitting headaches. He would run up to sixteen miles a day, “just to feel myself,” he said. Whole days were spent lying on the floor of his room counting from one up to one hundred and then back down again.

“My condition was one of utter darkness. It was as if I had fallen into a deep dark well. In those days I had many times dreamed that I was falling and falling and going deeper into a bottomless well. And many times I awakened from a dream full of perspiration, sweating profusely, because the falling was endless without any ground or place anywhere to rest my feet.

“Except for darkness and falling, nothing else remained, but slowly I accepted even that condition…”

“Slowly I accepted even that condition…” At some point he finally gave up. This was his introduction to that state of ‘let-go’ which was to play such a key role in his later thinking;- and from this moment, things started to happen very quickly.

“The past was disappearing, as if it had never belonged to me, as if I had read about it somewhere, as if I had dreamed about it, as if it was somebody else’s story I have heard and somebody told it to me. I was becoming loose from my past, I was being uprooted from my history, I was losing my autobiography… Mind was disappearing…It was difficult to catch hold of it, it was rushing farther and farther away…”

One night shortly afterwards the process reached its climax. Osho fell asleep early in the evening, in the little, box-like student’s room where he was living. Abruptly he woke at midnight.

“Suddenly it was there, the other reality, the separate reality, the really real, or whatsoever you want to call it – call it God, call it truth, call it Dhamma, call it Tao, or whatsoever you will. It was nameless. But it was there – so opaque, so transparent, and yet so solid one could have touched it. It was almost suffocating me in that room. It was too much and I was not yet capable of absorbing it.”

He rushed out of the room and into the open air. He walked through the streets of Jabalpur until he came to a public garden. Finding it locked, he climbed over the railings and sat down under a tree he found there, a maulshree tree, to which he felt strongly drawn. There he spent the night, sitting in meditation, and whatever it was that he spent the rest of his life trying to communicate happened to him…settled, and stabilised.

Trying to describe this twenty five years later it was still the negative aspects of the process he stressed. It was not that he found God, it was that he lost himself. God was what remained.

“A sort of emptiness, a void, came about of its own accord. Many questions circled around and around. But because there was no answer, they dropped down from exhaustion, so to speak, and died. I did not get the answers, but the questions were destroyed…All matters on which questions could be asked became non-existent. Previously, there was only asking and asking. Thereafter, nothing like questioning remained.

“Now I have neither any questions nor any answers.”

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69 Responses to Osho’s Pre-enlightenment

  1. Arpana says:

    Interesting. An accurate description of how I felt while exploring TM , in the lead up to taking sannyas. Hm!!

  2. nice story-heard years ago, but- it would be nicer still if Existence wouldn’t be so cheap, and have all of us “naturally” enlightened, just like the old man. Time to stop being so stingy, Existence!!! Things on this earth are getting old- fast.

  3. shantam says:

    Yesterday, read a sentence in the daily mail. It was on the facebook profile of one of the WAG´s of accused in Lawarence murder case, “Immirgants are like sperms; million enter but only one works”.
    And immediately i thought, is enlightenment not something like this.
    Millions meditate and most probably disappear, yet hardly someone touches the summit and come back to motivate for the other shore.
    Human spiritual life will be different if we have true gurus like the Hollywood/Bollywood stars. In this was industry will be bigger than the stars.
    But as this is not the case, one goes on clinging with the dead and gone,
    thinking that they are like mobile satellites, distributing our calls to the divine!

  4. Preetam says:

    Yes the true self, yes the true self,
    yes, it is so cheap.
    It is not that holy shit as most of the new age freaks expecting it, in there confusion . It is something possible to every human being, if ask the right qwestion, with little devotion and totality, qwestions changing into assurance.

  5. Chetna says:

    I am beginning to think that the starting point is different, hence not many become enlightened.

    Having read Osho’s , Yogananda’s, Buddha’s etc paths to enlightenment what astonished me is the fire they have to begin with. They certainly seem on a higher plane of development to start with. Such determination and clarity does not seem to be common.

    Good luck to us, the common human beings…

    • Parmartha says:

      My take Chetna is rather different! In talking so frankly about this disturbed and depressed period of his early life Osho furnishes hope for all. One friend of mine Yatindra, in Pune one, was “suffering” mental anguish and told Osho in darshan. Osho’s reply was beautiful and uplifting, he simply said, dont worry, I have been exactly where you have been, and you can go beyond it.
      It is a shame this part of Osho’s life is relatively little known as it was spoken of in a Hindi discourse, and though translated not published much, if at all, except that very early edition of ‘Dimensions beyond the Known”.

  6. martyn says:

    Somethin tells me that P wants us to get it. In his own way and with a safe pair of hands, we will become delivered in the consciousness natal clinic, and this is our destiny. Nothing else comes close to making life bearable… and as we find our human delights slipping away from us, we reassure ourselves that the angelic form is there to mollify and curdle us into its self-replicating yoghurt-like life form , that is good for the digesting of all other confounding and difficult to accept bits of life. But instead of using this as a storyline where things go in all manner of directions, as Shakespeare say would have us enjoy as a reckless complete iluminating drama of life, we are meant by study or application and with suitable references to concepted spirited relevance to become stunned into the effulgent immanence, or realise how totally unlike that we are and try harder.. in a non trying weird kind of , yet profoundly simple way. And no insults or confounded swearing because that tips the spiritual balance away from us and others.. and causes alarm..even difficulties… So the story starts having an acceptable ending already lined up .. like the All American film which never let’s the finale be dsconcerting or worrysome. We of course are on a mission and our facts must be for mass consumption… it is to build the vision.. with this but not a lot of that.. unlike our own stories which strangely and conversely may seem less intelligible or uniform or palatable , yet are fully lived tend to have many plots and sub plots ,….and no one can tell you how to make it end….. cos it has a lot of this that and the other….a huge crappy lot …. as well as the sunshiney bits…and only we or I can make everyone live happily ever after….by not living out anyone elses story… except our/my/your own…..and without giving it fancy names…….unless of course your story does resemble the Pirates of the Kama Being, episode 5, Captain Greybeards Nervous Wreck and the treasure of the Comfy Chair…

  7. martyn says:

    But wherefore do not you a mightier way Make war upon this bloody tyrant, Time? And fortify your self in your decay With means more blessed than my barren rhyme? Now stand you on the top of happy hours, And many maiden gardens, yet unset, With virtuous wish would bear you living flowers, Much liker than your painted counterfeit: So should the lines of life that life repair, Which this, Time’s pencil, or my pupil pen, Neither in inward worth nor outward fair, Can make you live your self in eyes of men. To give away yourself, keeps yourself still, And you must live, drawn by your own sweet skill.

  8. shantam says:

    As i remember in many of His Hindi and English discourses, Osho has explained time and again, that He was walking on the single and narrow path of Inner enlightening for lives and lives. His is the journey of Human resilliance, where eye of the fish is the target and nothing else.
    Out of this experience, His ashram was born, the way a self made billionaire opens a business school or a world renowned doctor create a world class diagnostic clinic.
    OSho is also heard saying that upto now once in a while someone becomes enlightened through hit and run methods and He is creating a science of Enlightenment…
    whether hundreds and thousands of people become enlightend through His path is not a question, for me the relevant point is how few selfish and afraid disciples hijacked the whole project. Osho´s main creation in Pune is no more a research laboratory but a first aid dispensery.
    We are back to square one!

  9. i am osho Sannyas from nepal i am craggy with osho love u osho ………

  10. Chetna says:

    Parmartha, yes, Osho is the source of inspiration. The whole purpose of the Master they say is not to make us enlightened (they can’t) but to inspire, support, push into the spiritual quest. And Osho does it so well. But what I still think that the total determination is missing in most of us. I am not suggesting to go and starve, sit in a cave etc etc, but even simple suggestions by Osho and other masters on daily practice (does not have to be a meditation) is not being followed by 99% of the sannyasins. Because it is not easy.

    I used to be very judgemental about old sannaysins who had spent years with Osho and still full of sh…t, even more than mundane people. Slowly, after having meditated for 5 yrs on daily basis my hope for transformation is less and less, in fact I think the journey has not even began. So who am I to say that 20 yrs is enough for transformation?

    What we forget is that meditation is not shouting hoo hoo, it is the state of no mind which 99% do not experience in their life-time therefore had not even meditated once, but attempted to. I am in those 99% unfortunately  trying to meditate.

    Thankfully there are people who have grown so much that it shines through them so my mind cannot say it is all an illusion!

    • frank says:

      your idea that if you are not in the no-mind,that is,enlightened,you are nowhere,a 99percenter,just a “mundane person”as you put it ,basically “a loser” i is classic religious nihilism.
      that is the problem with enlightenment-as-a-goal.
      it negates the vast majority of human experience as uttely worthless.
      its only a whisker away from the idea of “original sin.”

      i`ll not have any of it.

      • Arpana says:

        Yes. Yes. Yes.

        Your best post ever.

        Yes. Yes. Yes.

      • Arpana says:

        Came across this the other day as well.

        The energy called desire has been condemned for centuries. Almost all the so called saints have been against it, because desire is life and they were all life negative. Desire is the very source of all that you see, and they were against all that is visible. They wanted to sacrifice the visible at the feet of the invisible; they wanted to cut the roots of desire so there would no longer be any possibility of life.

        The Book of Wisdom.
        Chapter 15

    • chetna i disagree with you- the whole purpose of the master is not to inspire or desire it.. he just gives you a hint , a taste, and if you’re keen on it and find it that’s all that this life is worth living then you MIGHT get it… it’s all up to Existence from the get go, since this is a convoluted game created by existence.. osho is just another player- even stopping to smell a flower can get you”enlightened”with osho nowhere to be found or for that matter any master.. the flower is the master at that moment- existence dictates when , where, how, you come back home… doesn’t make sense to me, with all the suffering going on, that these things do occur.. Existence is nuts!!!

  11. Preetam says:

    The ruling Intrest, doesnt wont self-confident humans. They surport laboratories not for becoming enlightend, they like us unenlightend, more than ever. Dont think oure commune has been untroubled by those intrests. What we see, is the impact of these what ever there stands behind. It sounds naiv, but we should go togeteher for the left dream. We all more or less close to depart, lets meat in the gold of eternity and oneness. Love to Osho and oure beloved Commune

  12. Chetna says:

    I was listening to Osho today and heard an interesting discourse on the further development of Zen and where it will survive (from The Grass Grows by itself):

    “To me, if any country can in the future become again the soil (for Zen), it is England.
    You will be surprised, because you may think it is America. No. Now the most balanced
    country in the world is England, just as in the ancient days it was China. The seed has to be
    taken to England and planted there; it will not flower there, but it will become a big tree.
    English consciousness – conservative, always following the middle way, the liberal mind,
    never moving to the extremes, just remaining in the middle – will be helpful. That is why I am
    allowing more and more English people to settle around me. It is not only for visa reasons!
    Because once the seed is ready, I would like them to take it to England. And from England it can go to America, and it will have flowering there, because America is the most extrovert country right now.”

    • frank says:

      he couldn`t make up his mind could he?
      first,england was going down the pan with rioters and poverty wreaking inevitable revenge for the brutish british empire,then it magically became,thatnks to the notable british fair mindedness,the launchpad for worldwide zen!
      he was right on both counts,though…..

    • sannyasnews says:

      Thanks Chetna for your post. For the record Osho said this in Poona one, before he ever went to America, or tried to get into the UK (in 1986). We think it unlikely he would have said either of these things after 86.

      • so he’s not the soothsayer many sannyasins thought him to be- like that Aids would be the next great plague wiping out 2/3rds world population etc… the biggest thing wrong with cults- their followers believe anything their leader says— i.e. north korea.. Kim Jung ick Think for yourselves- stupids.

    • alokjohn says:

      England in 1975 was different from England in 2012. Still a half decent place (maybe I will be cut down for this!). I tend to think he said things like that just to encourage people to meditate.

      • Parmartha says:

        There were a lot of English sannyasins in high places at that time, I think he was just buttering up their egos!
        I meet a lot of torture survivors in my day job who are desperate to live in the UK (2012) and wont have a word said against anything English. If you heard their stories you would understand why. England is still “half-decent” somewhere, but maybe less visible than it was. However I think this has nothing to do with being a good seeding ground for Zen.

        • alokjohn says:

          Well yes, of course. But maybe England is spiritually less adventurous
          and deeply materialistic, and also perhaps frightened of the future. The TM people pulled out because of the deep materialism. I know Osho made a joke about them, but nevertheless they felt they had to leave UK. And every other new age activity, yoga etc, seems to be popular except Osho. I think it is a bad sign really.

      • Arpana says:

        I was having a great time in 1975 John. People of an age now are enjoying themselves just as much. They’re a lot freer of authority than young people in those days.

        Life is good now as well, but that’s Osho and meditation and of course my own input.

      • martyn says:

        .. to encourage people to be English… surely old bean.. meditate ?.. i say pish and poffle.. pass the scones…look out here comes a therapist.. just smarten up and stay aware..or you’ll be in detention…

  13. Karima says:

    I’d wish Osho had talked more of that part of the journey: the anguish of the dying of the “ego”. Instead he emphesized more : love, life, laughter, possibly in order not to scare us off.! At the time i believed that “enlightenment” was about feeling silent, ecstatic, loving etc. and feeling depressed, doubtful or fearful had to be getting rid off, by way of letting go or catharsis, which only ‘worked” for a while. Its only now starting to dawn that nothing works and that the more i do (resist) the more i suffer!

    • frank says:

      maybe osho just saw what people wanted and let them have it.
      for example, his vision of communes never surfaced when he was hanging out with indian people…it was a result of his contact with western sannyasins in the throes of hippy dreams (foreshadowed historically by utopian idealistic dreams of the west.
      you want it—have it….
      you go on wanting it, having it,till you find out, like a kid with a worn out toy that you dont want it any more cos it stinks,so you dump it.
      maybe what you call “meditation”,trying to be happy 100% of the time,transcend the “mundane”etc will turn out to be the same….?

    • karima- the thicker the mind, the further from self… catharsis primes you for the dissolving to your true self.. the osho meds as i see it, are not enough, they just scratch the mind shield just a little- i think doing hours of intense catharsis with a surrender/prayer as a finale, for weeks on end- you’ll be good and primed. what did osho used to say- the lazy man’s guide to enlightenment. that was back in the ’70′s, people now are more blocked headed than ever.. driving while on a cell phone, texting while driving, bicycling while texting and drinking an espresso, this “multitasking” is ridiculous.. people can’t multitask- one thing at a time please, even then, we end up thinking about something else while doing one thing- so unconscious, and space cases… but people think it’s the “in” thing- being led around like sheep by corporations.. zombies trying to live. If you’re over age 40 Karima, it’s a lot tougher on the body to really go 110% with the catharsis.. good luck, don’t give up- it ain’t B.S.

      • Karima says:

        For me the good news is,that finally,i am giving up. What i was always looking for,and trying “to get”is here already!

  14. chetna says:

    oh things are not so dramatic for me frankie, not to worry but I got introduced to my mind in full and refuse to live in it all life

  15. Preetam says:

    My experience of “ego”, its an illusion same as “Mind”, by experiencing “Self” something greater rises. Because if there is an permanent experiense of “Self” it is absurd to try keeping “Mind” and “Ego” continue ruling. Deep folded in Existenz the “Self” is placed, third eye and fokus like arrow deeper and deeper, we remember those discourses :) .

  16. sagara says:

    I didn’t bother reading Osho’s pre-enlightenment trauma story because I’ve heard it so many times before. Yawn.
    Next we have all the experts putting in their bit about the tricky road that leads to enlightenment…snore.
    East meets west is no longer a dream but reality…one only needs to visit modern-day India to see that. Tragic that the fusion is such a materialistic one. Then again, I question the East’s legacy of spiritual enlightenment and no doubt it will have a ressurgance once the east burns out with the idea than money can bring happiness as a direct consequence of having it. Somehow it all appears to move in cycles. From gold bullion to golden carrots, promising mukta, liberation, enlightenment. It is all questionable. Osho illustrated that very well. It is at times difficult to find a thread between Osho’s earlier talks and his later ones. So many contradictions in his personal life that only a fool would take his enlightenment as a constant, a given ,because he often behaved in a very unenlightened way in the last decade of his life, setting apart the argument as to how an enlightened one is supposed to behave.. Afterall,enlightenment is obviously not a static state or else all enlightened ones would act in the same way and say the same things…but as history shows, they don’t
    Perhaps it would be better to simply drop the whole idea of personal enlightenment and get on with the more immediate reality of living a human life. Seeking enlightenment…what a contradiction in terms. As the cliche goes….get a life.

    • Parmartha says:

      Sagara thanks for the post. There have been different traditions, “enlightenment” was/is a Buddhist tradition, adopted by Osho, but possibly not suited to the west.
      The mystic tradition in the west was almost always phrased in a rather different way, basically fusion with God, or union with God, or as Jesus said “me and my father are one”.
      Maybe it is time to look for a 21st century vocabulary free of both these traditions.
      “Living a human life” as you phrase it does give rise to genuine dilemmas and existential uncertainty which sometime give rise to “mental health issues”, as they did for Osho, and for many others.
      I would not like to see the tradition of “freeing oneself” from such burdens, however it is called, be lost because any paradigm (east or west) has simply become too universal, and at the same time overdone.

      • parmartha- all religion, organized that is, is just another game played by people to control.. the old pack mentality, played out by human animals.. everyone trying to find a way to become top of the pack or part of the top clan of the pack. so, east, west, north, south, all the same shitty game being played and as i’ve noticed too many spiritual seekers or new agers getting too caught up in the fine details of the game. Fuck organized religion and their propaganda… better to be a lone wolf than being played off by the rest of the pack.

    • people have been in poverty for so long in india, they’ll jump on anything that gets them out… even becoming Catholic- look what hindu/buddhism has done- NOTHING!!!! all talk and the action done by the higher castes to the lower castes has been horrible. so why hasn’t the greater masses of india dump hinduism, by now? good question any answers? I’ll take filthy capitalism over filthy hinduism any day of the week.

    • sagra- most followers are stupid plain and simple, that’s why they can’t see that “enlightenment” is a fluid thing.. very individualist, yet the pack surrounding their leader want to control, and organized this state of being. i like your take on things- nice to see some common sense being used by a “sannyasin’- for a change.

    • martyn says:

      In my copy of the esteemed journal ‘Ego Monthly’, published by SunnyEyes News Publishing, there is a very good article on ‘Why Bother’ ?The first and last step without really trying’.
      This journal of non liberation and pragmatic real-spiritik has some very useful monthly insights on how life is really quite demanding enough without having to go all lady gaga over just some consciousness accident with gases and neutrons. This month’s articles are particularly good on having things that you don’t want, wanting things you don’t have and thinking about things when you have a moment or two spare.. all of which are particularly useful if you have an Ego.There are also readers tips on where to enjoy your ego more, even if you think its all illusion, and swapping egos with friends at the local Tantra club for people who lose their clothes faster than their egos, and at only £150 for the weekend.
      Next month Ego Journal will have as guest writer a man who has drunk more tea in aloneness and thought more often about the point of it all , without success , than a whole room of zen monk-eys. He will be exploring his favourite themes.. Almost Happy but not quite Suicidal …and How to repair a faulty Ego that doesn’t fulfil, with only some cake and reassurance.

      Ps if anyone would like to order a copy of my guide for failing ‘Egos and Eyesight’, the guide which allows for a thorough combination of Ego indulgence whilst at the same time time just being absorbed into the throbbing presence by using 3D special effects free Egoless glasses…
      then you can either order now or think again …

      *The editors reserve the right to call time on this advert and freeloading and advise you that if you have a pinch of salt , now is the time to take it…

      • martyn says:

        For SALE:

        Tired old moth-eaten Ego gathering dust in Garage , unwanted Xmas present, almost new but with few minor accidental dents.
        Faulty mechanism … Wish Fulfilment and Simultaneous enjoyment button freezes and sets off never ending list of ‘I Fonly’ (apple mac users )
        Will swap for having My Cake and Eating it (Nintendo Playstation etc) or a collection of Playboy magazines that ensures solitary achievements.

        contact justpresence@noticethenoticer.com

      • kavita says:

        is there any chance to book in advance for the coming editions . . in case they are sold out :)

        • martyn says:

          Dear Mrs Ryvita,

          Thank you for your interest in my ego, without which my life would be less interesting. I mean if all we did was to recognise each others egoless-ness the world would be less interesting , and a more aum-drum affair. Speaking of which have you had one lately. If you haven’t I can highly recommend having one while waiting for a no mind state, (also known by US rednecks as Why oWhy o-Wyoming, Nebraska, Idaho, Wisconsin etc etc )

          I am currently selling cheaper ego versions of no -mind which I have called catchingly called ‘Snoozing’ , each pack comes complete with an inflatable plastic hand to talk to when the face ain’t listening..The inflatable hand is also good for scratching my back while I scratch yours , and for all other Egoic massage sessions.
          If your book doesn’t arrive within 28 days, then don’t be surprised .. just be filled with wonder.

        • martyn says:

          Kavita i can only say that your request deserves attention urgently…the ego is a question of mind over matter….
          so that when we apply no-mind to those mundane worries and fears it would go like this…

          If you don’t mind
          It doesn’t matter….

          His Puddings..

          • kavita says:

            Yes master . . .
            whatever you say . . . :)
            could you explain further ( only if possible ). .
            why rickshawosan said to his disciple . .
            ” lets make hay while the sun shines ”. .
            ~ moneyshow :) _/”\_

  17. Preetam says:

    On the one hand you are sad because India is overtaken by money interests, on the other you ask Humans to stop searching individual enlightenment. How is it possible for a Human to live without his center, just ruled by the outside, no, its wrong. Thats the common way how the the dirty motives in our world ruling and bewilder Human consciousness.

    Thats one of the biggest problems for people like Osho, people without the experience of “Self” living always on the surface. So if you stop surching yourself, you kill the individuality, the possible experience of who you are and the possibility of a Lotus Paradise.

    • the “money interests” in the past were limited to the higher castes- now the cat’s out of the bag and most everyone can be a greedy as those higher caste bastards.. hurray for capitalism!! or do you want for things to be as they were- billions of poor and a few thousand rich people controlling things?

  18. preetam- the possibility of experiencing your true self exists whether or not you are seeking, whether or not you live on the surface, it’s always there, as to being an individual, nature has set in us not to be individuals but to copy from one another. whether or not you remember, but from when you first came out of the womb, you’ve been taught by your parents, friends and society the how to’s in the survival basics.. all other things, that you may think you are doing on your own is just that, you think you are being an individual but you’re not.. all actions and reactions to life’s situations are from what you were taught.. as for the spiritual question of enlightenment, even that is taught… usually because you’re not happy or were traumatized from your youth or are repressed sexually and emotionally.. sound familiar? it should, because millions of your predecessors and current cohorts have also experienced the same things, those same feelings and have also joined in the search.. so being an individual is what your foolish ego tells you it wants, but it’s too stupid to see and accept the truth of what this game is all about. it makes a person feel better to believe in such a fantasy land.

    • Preetam says:

      Yes, you are right. And, what you are going to do whith it? Its the same for every one, Krishna, Buddha, Osho, LaoTzu, Matzu, Rinzai aso. But what i am going to do with it, out of understanding thats my point. I decide, if i like or dont like.

      I dont like what the common dirty intrest created out of there taught ruling with 3000 years old order and keeping Humans as down as possible. What you wana tell me, i should be quiet and accepting how these terrible Moster ruling with there order OUR beautyfull planet and driving humanity deeper into bondage.

      • martyn says:

        Imagine you have been just been born today as you are…and you now have a responsibility to something or someone ,including yourself,
        …and you have from today to be responsible to this…maybe its simply an idea of survival.. but that the responsibility lies in the discovery of what is needed to provide this responsibility…it may be a quality or an inspiration.. it may be the smallest or the most high…
        and all you know is that you know about it in yourself and it politely asks your attention…

      • pretty much out our hands.. all genetic programming, and if you believe in the “Reincarnation/Karma theory of existence(a rather shallow opinion given that humans are rather shallow creatures due to Existence’s wishes) then we are responsible for choosing our particular incarnation as a human and into the particular environment(family, society, etc.). Existence set up this game, and since we are Existence, hence we are ultimately responsible, but don’t know we are playing a game… we therefore must be nuts just as Existence. I wouldn’t do this to my worst enemy.. Preetam, if i may suggest, just close your eyes and picture all the good and all the bad that exists, take a week or two maybe a half hour a day, just as a meditation, now would you conjure up such madness? One thing i remember the old man, in one particular discourse and answering a question about “why”, why things are such, he answered from what i remember, “that once you ask the WHY you missed the point. don’t ask , WHY”, he said, it is as it is. Why humans are doing things or whether nature and the universe are doing it, such as an asteroid striking the earth and wiping out most of life on earth.. now that clearly has happen several times over earth’s existence, yet, no one as far as i know has ever bitched about it happening and possibly happening in the future which is inevitable, along with earthquakes and tsunamis etc. Remember Japan last march- or Indonesia of 6 years ago or Kobe in the 1990′s, no body condemned Existence/Nature for doing those things and it’s far worse than what humans have ever done to the planet or to each other… Existence is the issue, humans are just part of it just as any other being or asteroid.. our evolution is in the hands of Existence, and Existence may have humans on a self-extermination course, nobody knows for sure.

  19. Amrit says:

    Hwould it be for Osho,Existence to allow Us to die in India the Land of my spiritual rebirthing and taking birth in England in my next or future lives ,until this country becomes enlightened and leading other nations on Her path!”*Where From(?)(finally(!),360dgrs of thy love & hence final!)*Who Am I?
    In my humble opinion if there is a country,land or place,that’s ready for such an enquiryits certainly england!Praise ,Osho,Rahman,Meher Baba,Chrisnamurti,Chris consciouness,Sai baba,Suzuki & all masters of Consciousness,including the Shamanic onesincluding,Chilum.&psychotropic enquiry!

    • Preetam says:

      What is spirituell special about England, beside that all common Intrests of keeping Humanity down comming there together?

      • Parmartha says:

        Nothing special about the UK. It was Osho back in the seventies that said that. And nothing special about India either! I would say France is a much better place for zen to seed as it has so many individualists.

        • martyn says:

          you mean eeegoistes…
          & drive with car horn on, whilst only 2 cms from the car in front of you….
          oh and the obligatory mistress and turgid liaison dangereuses coupled with an insouciant .. je m’en fou de toi……

        • France? you must be joking or on Ecstasy!!! just joking- “P”. the U.S.A. maybe Australia… come live here, one can do just about anything one wants.. be careful you don’t rave about Hindu god/goddesses.. that’s the only draw back. we have polygamists in Utah, born again freakazoids in most of the rest of rural America, we have drug addicts, slave traders, potheads, deadheads, Wall Streeters, wife beaters, Tree huggers, gay buggers, hypocrites, philanthropists, and Communists. Svengalis, those who ride the Good
          Ship Lollies, fresh air and Times Square… Cattle rustlers, street hustlers, those who climb mountain peaks as well as Bill Gates, and other geeks…. yeah, U.S.A. not France, no way.

    • Amrit, you should be shouting praise to yourself- not some country or other person, whether enlightened or not— for you are Allah but don’t know it… keep praising yourself and you may know “IT” after all. all other praising is a waste of time- in my opinion- which really doesn’t mean much…. bon voyage amrit… see you maybe on the other side some time- Dam you beat me to it.

  20. Karima says:

    As i see “it”: everything i can expierence with the 5 senses is not the truth,also beautiful “spiritual”expierences. Why? cause i can expierence them,like an arrow going away from the Source. Who I AM, i cannot expierence,why,?? cause when i do that, i make the Source into an expierence,and the reality is, that i can only BE the Source! So the big question is: How can i ( i meaning a bundle of expierences and ideas) be the Source? In other words how can i be enlightened? The i will have to die, in order for the real I to resurrect.In other words there is no “personal”enligthenment. When enlightenment occurs in a personality,than it expresses itself through that personality,in a particular flavour. It’s always the One, disguised as the many! …………………….By the way, this is only an intellectual understanding,and therefore a lie.

    • Preetam says:

      Is it possible, because Ego is not real? My indentation on this subject there is lots of misunderstanding. To me, what is needet, is a Moment with right atmosphare, devotion, out of deep let go, urch, inspiration, brave and sharp intelligence… may we see and fastening our awaereness were it has its root within the “Self”. To me its the place of Oneness, Egolessness, Mindlessness… intelligence of Mind is needet till the last Step, so is my understanding.

    • if you stop thinking about it, you’ll find Existence/Enlightenment soon enough… a tough thing to do for all of us.. Existence dealt us these human “cards”- i fold… much too rich for my blood.

  21. frank says:

    if ego is not real,then mindlessness will experience the source of the one in the many in the I AM of mindless intelligence.
    yet if not there is no one to be nothing, like an arrow going to the Source then coming back disguised as the root of the self or non-self…then awareness,deep let-go,brave intelligence will be ressurected as intellectual understanding whether it is a lie or the truth or not…..
    this is my understanding.

    • Arpana says:

      Didnt realise you were this evolved Frank. Its a bit much to take in.

      Overwhelmin’ even.

    • martyn says:

      sorry Frank you got a double negative in there ,Frank,
      ”if not, …not…”
      You know what that means Frank?

      Double letter and triple word score….
      but…….. i do have an S as well….

      sorry Frank..
      hey…its only a game …..don’t throw the pieces in the air…anyway its your round…. oh and a packet of Wotsits…make it two…. ta….

  22. Preetam says:

    Osho discibt experiecing this Self at one of the 44 Upanishad Discurses wonderfull, if remembere it right Discours 4 or 5.
    Even enightenment seem a little childish by looking within the Self. Till than awaereness has been a very abstruct thing, now it is almost messable. Let me go further, because of all the complainse of consistance. If you dont isolat yourself mostley have to deal by connecting other people at the pereferie, unawaere of Themselfs. So he had to deal, and they pulling and pulling but absolut not out of destruction just out of unawereness. And the real respect for Humanity existence comes out of experiencing our oneness within Self and realising this existence exists within us, the ghose is out. Our awaereness and Love makes all possible, because of that this Planet is Lotus Paradies.

  23. shantam says:


    Not connected with the thread, but as mirror, why Sannyas chairman should also not retire?

  24. Preetam says:

    Again will be assumptive, dont like Dalai Lama. As remember right, Osho too said he just is an politian a religious political leader. This Video starts with the word “just” for Human beings… that shows the aim, reducing humans an excident needing a little place on OUR planet. These Politians should get lost. He keeps people same down with all his good thoughts of goodness same what all politian does. Trying keeping qwiet and control because Humanity is not aloud finding what is true Self-re-spect, because that moment the 3000 year old order rooted by Hiram Abiff, of keeping Humanity as down as possible is finished.

  25. shantam says:

    This is the side effect of reading too much Osho, others look like pigmies, where as one´s own self creates an inflated image. By wearing mom´s sandles, little girls want to play Heidi Klum´s top models. This is what sannyasins leave the impression whether they talk about enlightenment( as if it is a blue chip share, available only through “Inside Trading”)or it is the over all world view; politicians are not good, religious leaders are not good. past is not good, parents are not good but only me, me and my beliefs…