Samudaya was/is a very old Osho disciple. he survived the German Concentration Camp Auuschwitz as a teenager between 1943 and 1945.
Subhuti saw him last in 1994, enjoying a trailer home life as a retired gentleman.
He had lived in the UK after the war and gained a perfect English upper class accent.
Subhuti had first met him when he interviewed him during the Ranch period.
In summary he told Subhuti the story of a long rail journey into Poland in cattle wagons. And contrary to myth, how those poor people crowded there, had no hope. His brother said as they neared the camp “Mother, I think we are all going to die”..
Samudaya described how he saw Joseph Mengle first hand, the so-called Angel of Death who stood at the Railhead and with a band playing music monotoned, to the left, to the right, as he dispensed either immediate execution or execution by continuous work and no food to speak of.
Samudaya mimicked the English upper class attitude towards Hitler’s Final Solution” in his perfect Oxford accent: “I say old boy, you cant do that”. Then in a much lower tone “Do it quickly”.
After showing the wits and will to survive the camp he went to Israel in 1945 and spent time in the army. Later he became an artist and tried to purge his soul of his tortured life in Auschwitz. One of his paintings showed a tall Auschwitz smokestack filled with tiny Jewish stars, while the shadow from the chimney made a Christian cross on the ground. The painting was simply titled “Why?”.
Samudaya told Subhuti of his experience in one of the first ashram encounter groups. As part of an evening assignment he was directed to take a young German sannyasin home with him. After a short while they found themselves making love.
Later as they drunk tea together he told her his story, everything from the train to Auschwitz and after. She became very quiet. After a pause of indecision she suddenly said “Do you know my family name?”. He shook his head, his experience with her had been a sort of Last Tango in Paris .
It is Goering she said. The girl was the grand niece of Hermann Goering, close ally of Hitler and the Commander of the German airforce, the Lufwaffe.
They looked at each other for another long moment. And then…. they laughed. They embraced. Samudaya explained that that moment in Poona One was his “final solution” to his search for quietude after all those years of hell.
Retold from the book, “My Dance with a Madman”, by Anand Subhuti
Strange, we are close before an nuclear war maybe 3. Worldwar, created by the same order. The History is already written, according there will how humanity should move into more pain, by keeping the old structures from the deal between Monarchy and Freemasonry. Again and again these creature pushing humanity into all this terrible these are the same interest which although Osho, sabotage. Its all the same Order playing on both sides, after all coming with there money and technology for the reconstruction, kept there power and the money machine continue working. What the world rules is the same since 3000 years, always pain, fear and keeping them down down down. Its not the unconscious mob, this is the Order of Monsters ruling and repressing. A deal between Monarchy and Hiram Abiffs outcome.
The monster is in all of us,giving the right opportunity. This is the game between so called good and evil, both are part of the same coin!
And when both come together like in the above story,all boundaries and judgements fall away!
But Karima, how can Goering’s young relative be bracketed with his ‘monstrous’ actions? He was responsible for the ‘evil’ he perpetrated, not her.
So it’s not accurate to say ‘good’ and ‘evil’ came together in this story. More like ‘victim’ and the ‘shadow’ of evil, perhaps? Or even, ‘good’ and ‘good’, two ‘innocents’ together….
But sure, in the sense both parties share the psychic ‘evil’ – fear/suspicion, guilt, prejudice, hatred – and see through it all in a moment, breaking free into joy, the good, it is a coming together of good and evil.
Potentially classic material for a film or short story….
“the last mango in paradise”
“brief encounter group”
“non-fatal attraction”
“nine and a half hours”(speeded-up growth version)
Yes true, i simplified it a bit.
what a wonderful story and a blessing to both for having met!
Hell of a coincidence the girlfriend should be a Goering!
I thought it’s a wonderful story also Chetna.
At a more general level it does introduce the consideration that what happens in a “Buddhafield”, particularly when the Teacher is alive, has some alchemical connections between its members.
I say this having lived in Pune one, Medina, and the Ranch. It was somehow amazing that just the right person to propel or trip up one’s own ego or growth seemed to appear at just the right moment. Before I lived in such a situation I would never have thought it was at all possible.
The argument that Osho and other teachers have given is that somehow being in such a force field has a crucible effect, it speeds up growth, and these sort of synchronicities such as the one described by Subhuti occur.
It is not that the Teacher is “doing”it, but existence itself gets interested in the vacuum (s)he creates and pours in that divine and magical energy.
You are right of course, Parmartha. It is not just a “coincidence.”
it is coincidence- it’s just our egos wanting to believe it’s something “special”.. that’s another reason why many became sannyasins- to feel special. feeling special and not ordinary makes us think live is worth living. the ordinariness, the not so special interactions, people think there is nothing worth while in life. sannyasins and i was one of them, think that almost every interaction with another person is somehow special, “the cosmos has plans for me” , bullshit.. Alok john, you are ordinary so is everyone else, so are our daily interactions with others and other earthly creatures… and that’s just fine.
Certainly the only argument for a Buddhafield commune is that it helps to climb the mountain of the ordinary self and set one free, and it does that through the alchemy that a great teacher transmits from the beyond.
Of course JC, if that was not your experience, and you believe that perhaps being a hermit allows you a more rapid growth then fair enough.
I have noticed though in some of your posts some positive comments about your time in the Ranch Buddhafield.
Maybe the experiences of being with others and being alone are both needed at some point in the biography of the spiritual seeker.
In the same way a man of awareness and understanding moves from the periphery to the center, from the center to the periphery. He never gets fixated anywhere. From the marketplace to the monastery, from sansar to sannyas, from being extrovert to being introvert — he continuously goes on moving, because these
two are his wings, they are not against each other. They may be balanced in opposite directions — they have to be; if both the wings are on one side, the bird cannot fly into the sky — they have to be balancing, they
have to be in opposite directions, but still they belong to the same bird, and they serve the same bird. Your outside and your inside are your wings.
This has to be very deeply remembered, because there is a possibility… the mind tends to fixate. There are people who are fixated in the marketplace; they say they cannot get out of it; they say they have no time for meditation; they say even if time is there they don’t know how to meditate and they don’t believe that they can meditate. They say they are worldly — how can they meditate? They are materialistic — how can
they meditate? They say, “Unfortunately, we are extroverts — how can we go in?” They have chosen only one wing. And, of course, if frustration comes out of it, it is natural. With one wing frustration is bound to
come.
Then there are people who become fed up with the world and escape out of the world, go to the monasteries and the Himalayas, become sannyasins, monks: start living alone, force a life of introversion on
themselves. They close their eyes, they close all their doors and windows, they become like Leibnitz’ monads — windowless — then they are bored.
In the marketplace they were fed up, they were tired, frustrated. It was getting more like a madhouse; they could not find rest. There was too much of relationship and not enough holiday, not enough space to be
themselves. They were falling into things, losing their beings. They were becoming more and more material and less and less spiritual. They were losing their direction. They were losing the very consciousness that
they are. They escaped. Fed up, frustrated, they escaped.
Now they are trying to live alone — a life of introversion. Sooner or later they get bored. Again they have chosen another wing, but again one wing. This is the way of a lopsided life. They have again fallen into the same fallacy on the opposite pole.I am neither for this nor for that. I would like you to become so capable that you can remain in the marketplace and yet meditative. I would like you to relate with people, to love, to move in millions of relationships — because they enrich — and yet remain capable of closing your doors and sometimes having a holiday from all relationship… so that you can relate with your own being also.
Relate with others, but relate with yourself also. Love others, but love yourself also. Go out! — the world is beautiful, adventurous; it is a challenge, it enriches. Don’t lose that opportunity! Whenever the world
knocks at your door and calls you, go out! Go out fearlessly — there is nothing to lose, there is everything to gain.
Osho.
A Sudden Clash of Thunder
Chapter #2
Chapter title: When you are Not, God is
actually, i don’t believe in any “Rapid growth”, that too is a misplaced head trip. our growth it seems, is predetermined,that is, if you believe the “specialness” of osho or any other master, if you believe interactions are some sort of “Special arrangements” that happen because the cosmos has arranged them “especially” for you.. then there’s no such thing as free will. i really don’t know what to think but we maybe all puppets being manipulated by our creator.. either that, or everything, every action is determined by our so-called free will. but what about the wandering meteor or comet that crashes into the earth and kills 98% of all life? or volcanoes erupting and earthquakes and tsunamis? Free will or a predetermined outcome.. or something else.. so how does a enlightened being fit into this scenario? care to comment anyone? except for Arpana(Sufi). the guy can’t take a joke.
we are all alone, parmartha, and if any enlightenment that may happen, happens to a person- totally alone. the need to be with or around people is just an avoidance of being alone and a distraction – one’s gotta face oneself eventually. and what is the point of meditation? come on now, stop chasing your tail.. SN keeps posting things about meditation, yet comments here say, meditation is bullshit- let’s get communal… make up your mind SN.
One cant prove it is, or is not a coincidence. Speaking personally there were too many coincidences in my Buddhafield time to make much sense of it not being in a forcefield.
For me that was nothing about feeling special, in fact the encounter of everyday life in a Buddhafield I often found created the ordinairiness that had eluded me “in the world”.
so the world revolves around sannyasins only? now that’s arrogance.. it’s the main problem with organized religion and tribalism, it’s the animal kingdom ruling humans, cause that’s what we see when we look how nature has created animals.. territoriality, packs, competition and using violence to maintain it. human arrogance is what keeps us apart from the rest of nature, yet it’s been programmed into us, kind of an oxymoron. it will probably , in my opinion lead to our self annihilation. when we see that we are one with everything and we aren’t special and we don’t create in our minds “special” categories of humans, as with mystics and gurus, then…. please, sannyasins aren’t special, as our debates along with facts presented have proved otherwise. the head in the sand syndrome.
maybe , yet no one can prove Osho is/was “enlightened” or that such beings exist or ever did, or that there is an afterlife, or reincarnation and karma exist, or that there are 3 parts to god, the father, son, “holy” ghost.. or that jesus rose up to heaven, walked on water, or…….
jcp . . . when the grass – watchers got bored they invented meditation . . then they went rolling . . during this process they gathered a lot of mass . .
. . . . . . .
its an interesting idea,this “speeding up growth”
it gives a gratifying feeling.
but,is it really possible?
if you grow too much,or bloat yourself with too much divine and magical energy,you could end up with spiritual obesity…
Frank
Could be too grand and therapeutic a description I accept.
What I want to point to is my elderliness now means that I have met many people in life who have worked creatively and well, who somehow missed out on bliss. Those times in a Buddhafield were not continuous as I experienced it, but there were certainly multiple moments of feeling loving, and of a lightness of being.
And you, we would sometimes catch the eye of another, and no words would be exchanged, and we would each know the other was getting it, and was in that place as well at the time, and no need to speak, even internally, no need to touch, a moment of shared enough in itself time, and the place was both magical and ordinary.
Parmartha, after reading your post,i must say Sannyasins in general are in great Dilemma. Should they call their Man; the master, the teacher or simply mystic. It seems like we are living in a age where to call Daddy is childish, to call him Uncle is cool.
from Parmartha
Shantam:
When Osho was alive he did revive the so-called “Master/disciple” paradigm. I myself dont think it is appropriate for 2012. It was always arguably flawed as surrender became too prominent a feature of the relationship – however it does seem to suit the Indian consciousness. I myself much prefer “teacher”.
In fact I was actually very lucky with even teachers I had in an English grammar school in the fifties. I can think of at least five who really did give beyond the call of duty, and created trust and care between a pupil and themselves well beyond normal parenting – and shared a real love of their subject such that it was transferred to us pupils.
I feel / think . . that surrender is the first & foremost master – disciple / teacher – pupil . . for /towards . . any growth /learning . . in both cases each has to meet at some point . . in the case of a master-disciple the disciple’s surrender is needed / appears & in teacher – pupil a teacher’s surrender appears / needed . .
Parmartha wrote : “In fact I was actually very lucky with even teachers I had in an English grammar school in the fifties.” Not an experience I had to say the least!
You were unlucky then, Alok. I too had a few superb teachers in the 60′s, esp in the 6th form, in fact far more inspiring and influential than any university lecturer I later came across (with just one exception).
I was lucky enough to be taught by Karl Popper at university, so cant complain there. BUT, you are right SD, some of my school teachers far outshone most of the university teaching I received, which was distant and average. Furthermore I dont remember any university teacher actually bothering to know me as a person, whilst at least half a dozen school teachers did.
Something very shaping about that post war British grammar school phenomenon. Very future oriented.Very dry. Disciplined. Lot of teachers in those schools teaching because that’s the best they could do for themselves I reckon” and so many of them, not much older mentally or emotionally, than the kids they were ‘teaching’.
Yes, Arpana, there was much that was uncomfortable in that system, including a fair share of poor teachers, choosing, what a massively influential History teacher of mine once termed, “the last refuge of the inadequate”.
But still, as Parmartha says, there was a strong ethos of service, of doing their utmost to help, many clocking up vast numbers of hours of ‘overtime’,(unpaid, of course); which rarely seems to happen in schools these days. And the best of them were, in my experience, simply superb.
I went to eleven schools Satya deva, and interestingly enough have never had much baggage about teachers at all, and I am happy to qualify my remarks by acknowledging a lot of them were good eggs who gave a damn.
I still recall Mr. Prudence, who got me through the 11 plus in school number seven, the third in that year with great affection. The first time I as a child, in hindsight, had a grown up friend.
you didn’t go to catholic school, “P”.
Alok John.
You’ve mentioned you’re childhood a few times, which makes me wonder if you are not asking for something from us, or from someone here in particular.
Are you asking for something, even unwittingly?
Namaste.
Yes I was aware of that Alok from previous conversations. You clearly were really unlucky. Just as Satyadeva confirms here, and as I do, that tradition of English grammar school service was actually not an uncommon experience with pupils. I remain very grateful, and am really sorry that you did not have the same luck. There was a recent BBC4 programme about the best of the old English Grammar schools and can be still viewed through Iplayer.
Well I am sure it gets to be a bore for everyone, including you Arpana, but I was seriously abused both at home and at school.
If you look up my legal name on facebook (John Nygate) there are some links about the abuse including links to a book about child abuse where I tell my story in one chapter of 16,000 words. I always encourage friends and acquaintances to buy it and read it. I am really not happy when people who are therapists or play the therapist fail to buy it. I think it shows callousness and identification with the oppressors.
As to school, well I suppose I was moderately well taught in my down-at-heel grammar school, located in Burnt Oak a massive pre war council housing estate. My father left school at fourteen but I got into Oxford, so I could not have been that badly taught. However I spent years there in extreme terror of being beaten causing I think serious psychiatric injury. An Oxford degree is not worth much if you are psychiatrically disabled. I should add however that when I looked up the school (it was called Orange Hill) on friends reunited, there were quite a mix of memories, some negative like mine, but some quite good. It somewhat depended who your teachers were.
I have much better memories of New College Oxford where I was excellently taught in individual tutorials, though the tutors were not really interested in me as a person, they were just excellent professional teachers.
At least you could not be beaten there!
I read in the newspapers about people getting compensation for sexual abuse at school and I am very annoyed that I cannot get compensation for what I experienced. (I have made tons of enquiries to child abuse lawyers). I think I was much more injured than than many people who have received compensation for sexual abuse at school.
I phrased that remark to you as carefully as I could you know. Was not a put down, but a recognition this is a big issue for you. I have sent you a private response on a couple of occasions, which you haven’t responded to, which rather short circuits attempts at responsiveness. Can only deal with what you offer
If talking about this here helps, go for it mate.
All the best
It is just that I know all these books, Arpana. A book can only do so much.
same here, Alok, lots of violence in school and at home.. had catholic parents, old school from eastern europe who emigrated to the states after the war, and brought with them, their superstitions and brainwashed catholic minds.. along with alcohol and violence to solve their inability to cope with life in the modern world along with raising 4 kids… so i hear, see and feel, what you must have been through.
you’re in the minority “P”, for if most people had teachers and(parents?) like you did, the fucking world maybe be a tad less violent and a little more loving and intelligent.- hence, no need for masters, gurus, priests, etc.
Parmartha, I hope people of your thinking tribe will show this much courtesy to acknowledge that Osho was one of the finest flower of Indian spiritual Milieu, almost like Steve Jobs would not have created some new kind of apple without being the son of his soil. World can go gaga over the apple products, it is very much possible that the maximum revenue is generated out of USA, still apple like Coca Cola will remain a predominantly an American company.
Unfortunately, business world is ruled more by ethics and some code of conducts compared to Osho´s sannyas scene.
Whether sannyas in the master-disciple format stays or should be over hauled to fit with the market economy, who will decide about it?
Surely not some representative of Monarchy?
any way, last 10 years have shown, Osho is almost disappearing like endanger spices. If one counts the life span of a master through the books, then it is clear winners are those who did not have even a single disciple.
Just in this time, Paulo Coleho books are selling in millions and inspiring more people on daily basis then all the Echart Tolle, Osho and Ramana´s put all together.
May be the British_Canadian group of policy makers should create a New Osho out of the old. Simply take his beard away through digital Phot shop, and give Him a new name. Not Rajneesh Jain but Richard Jainson!
i am sure such maneuver will click!
Shantam.
The Master/disciple thing is a Zen Buddhist thing. You dont find it in Sufism for example or mystic Christianity. The Hindu tradition has Gurus, not Masters. Osho adopted it from a tradition which to say the least is very authoritarian, and was at it’s heyday centuries ago.
Teachers like Gurdjieff who Osho admired never let the term Master be used of himself.
If you have been brought up with English as your mother tongue things might be a little clearer. The linguistic twin of Master can often be slave.
The Master – Disciple relate has more its root at the Zendvolk/Parsen, Phoenicer. The master builders of these times, about 6000 years ago, had apprentices.
The English language is nobody’s special property .
It is the property of the imagination : it is the property of the language itself .
~ Derek Walcott
yes, freedom of speech, press, expression, and association.. something we struggle to maintain here in the states, even though it’s guaranteed.. something that is not in england and most of the rest of the world… i saw last week, the movie.. “The King’s Speech” if even half true, shows to any common sensed person, the stupidity of the divinity of Royalty.. why do you Brits still insist on crawling on your knees like babies? time to shed the royals for freedom. or are you too reliant on the tourist $$$$ or too afraid to be free?
The answer about the Royal Family is that there is a class system in England and small numbers of upper middle class and upper class people run everything, including the mass media which effectively dictate most people’s opinions. The Royal Family is the lynch-pin or glue of the whole class system and that is why the people who run England wish to keep it in place. Freedom of expression is highly limited in England though mostly you won’t go to jail for expressing the wrong opinions. You just get very marginalised if you have the wrong opinions and you never see your opinion expressed in any media.
Impractical Jay.
Actually I often think England lends itself to meditation, because it is such a shit hole, all you can do is meditate.
Surely if yo meditate even a shit hole wont look like a shit hole.
Anywhere you’d prefer to live then, Alok?
Satan’s words come to mind from Milton’s ‘Paradise Lost’, something like this:
“The Mind is its own place and can make a Heaven out of Hell and a Hell from Heaven”.
Perhaps easier said than done at times though, I concede….
Well it ain’t practical for me to move for all sorts of reasons, but if I did I would go somewhere warm. To be honest I am not sure where I would go to at all.
impractical to move abroad, jay
the word “master” does indeed have many connotations that would certainly not appeal to the more sensitive intelligent human.
were not the british “masters” of india and all those other inferior foreign types from around the world?
i do not know where and when the master/disciple relationship originated ,but i will wager that the master/slave relationship predated it by quite some distance.
what of the “masters”in the fabled british school system that hitler so admired?
were they really different from those zen guys with their cane sticks both?
i wont ask you again laddie,what is the sound of one hand clapping?
dont know? well then, let me refresh your memory…
swooossh……
what Derek Walcott said is true about all languages . . I guess