Some readers have responded privately to Sannyasnews by saying they dont believe Osho’s room was ever bugged, but it was some kind of double bluff that the two political “camps” (Sheela’s gang, and Osho’s Household group) at Rajneeshpuram were involved with.
The answers Osho gave in Press Conferences and discourses at the time certainly indicate otherwise as the quotes we give below demonstrate.
Firstly, The Last Testament, Vol. 3, Ch. 15
Q: WHY WOULD YOU SUSPECT SHEELA WOULD BUG YOUR ROOM, BHAGWAN?
A: Just so that whatever anybody tells me she knows. And then I figured it out,
that it is bugged, because I talked with Devaraj something, and next day she
brought the subject. I talked something to Vivek, and exact words next day she
brought it up. She will bring it up in such a way that, “Last night I dreamt
that You are sitting in the chair and Vivek is sitting in front and Devaraj is
sitting in front and something You are talking, and they are talking, and they
are talking that somebody is poisoned. I can’t exactly remember, but it was
something about poisoning people. And,” she said, “not only I dreamt it, Savita
dreamt it, Vidya dreamt it.” Exact same dream!
So that was enough proof that — I was searching — that there is bugging or
not (going on). . There was bugging, because she was repeating exactly.
And Secondly from
The Last Testament, Vol. 3, Ch. 22
She (Sheela) did things which were absolutely against my idea. She used my name without
asking me. And in fact, how she could have asked? If she bugs my own room, then
how she can ask me?
And what is the fear in bugging my room? The fear, perhaps,
I may say to someone something which does not go with her doings. I don’t know
what she is doing. She is afraid also, that somebody, particularly… not many
more people were saying [seeing?] me — only my physician, my dentist, my caretaker –
three persons were there. But they may say something to me: that this is going
on. And she had to know what information I have been given, so even before I ask
her any question, she comes prepared with an answer.
That’s what gave me the idea that the room is bugged. Because I will say
something to Devaraj, who had just come to check me, and next day when Sheela
will come to see me, the conversation with Devaraj was bound to come up.
And she was really stupid in that way, that she will say, that “I had a dream
last night that you are talking with Devaraj, and this conversation happened.
And not only I had the dream, Vidya also had the same dream, Savita had also the
same dream.”
I told Sheela, “You don’t know about dreams at all. Three persons having the
same dream has never been heard in the whole history. You are just ignorant. You
don’t know about dreaming anything. It would have been enough that you had
dreamed. There is no need for two more evidences. Those two more evidences make
your dream suspicious.
“And do you think I can accept that you all are — all the three — intuitive?
That you have some super-sensory powers? Then you will have to give a proof.
“I can open a book, and you are sitting there, you just tell me what page is
open and that will prove everything, whether you have any intuitive grasp of
things. Or I can mark it and keep it here on my table, and you all three dream
tonight, and tomorrow you report me what page. Otherwise, this room is bugged.
You tell me exactly right. It will be easier.”
And she flatly denied. “No, how we can do this thing to you?!” And she started
crying, and…
I said, “This crying, et cetera, will not help. You simply say whether the room
is bugged or not. I can forgive you, but you have to tell the truth.”
That was the last time I saw her.”
Seems pretty conclusive to SN.
Sannyasnews
I don’t know about bugs in Osho’s ranch room, but I can testify that having visited Osho’s air-condicioned, marble-walled cave in Lao Tzu House, Koregaon park there wasn’t even a mosquito in sight. The place was so cold it was like being in a deep freeze. Meditative vibes were amazing. I closed my eyes and my brain lit up like a fireworks display. I trust this has been of some help in solving the mysterium tremendum.
On recent interviews she clearly states that whereas other call him Osho , he will always be known to her as the Bugged One.
That’s a copyright joke licensed by my accountants in Slough and an office in Mumbai above Shree Goosey Gandhoo’s Undercover Bedding and Bugs Shop (look out for the swinging plaque… ‘This is Tat’ )
Careful, Martyn, that kind of buggy comment is liable to bug some of the locals.
I personally think that the new commune should have obligatory baby alarm video intercoms hard wired into the shower heads,bedrooms etc to prevent any allegations of skullduggery after the event.
There should be large suitcases stuffed with money ready to pay off the police and lawyers with available at the main gate.
A neo- I’m making it up as I go along office, a visitors’ centre where a revolving platform , like in a sushi bar, will offer differing interpretations of sannyas where wax-work neo guru mannequins will give a totally biased version of the grand purpose. Money transactions will be supervised by two sniffers, who will give it back to you if they like your energy. There’ll be rooms for light, middle and heavy judgements complete with piped hand clapping of approval for each point of view. The place will have different structures every month , running from utterly anarchic, to utterly unbelievably fascistic. And holograms of events from the last thirty years will be beamed together with mood altering nitrous oxide from floor vents.
Finally a duty free lounge with all the fags and booze you like, on the way to an all night mexican fiesta run by avuncular Nepalis in winter khaki green jumpers and a scarf round their heads.
Wow, sounds really groovy. I think that sannyas has to begin again right from the …ehm…beginning. Brilliant. Pity Osho is like gone, man. But we can pretend he’s with us ..like on an inner level…can you dig it…like inner. Yeah, I’m with you all the way, man. So utterly groovy.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/q71/64510_230989687055868_308222868_n.jpg
Q. TO SOMEONE OBSERVING THE VARIOUS VIEWS THAT YOU HAVE — IT IS QUITE A MIXTURE, BECAUSE SOME OF YOUR VIEWS APPEAR CONSERVATIVE, SOME APPEAR QUITE RADICAL, OTHERS APPEAR REFORMIST/LIBERAL, IF YOU LIKE — HOW ARE YOU ABLE TO ENCOMPASS SO MANY THINGS WHICH SOME PEOPLE WOULD SAY DISAGREE WITH EACH OTHER? HOW CAN YOU BE ALL THOSE THINGS ALL AT ONCE?
A: I am not a mediocre thinker. My consciousness is vast enough to contain all, all contradictions, but within me they become complementary to each other. So you can find anything you want in my writings. If you love me, you can find everything that makes your love deeper; if you hate me, you can find everything that makes your hate deeper. I give opportunity to all kinds of people to choose whatever they want to choose. I am vast.
Okay?
The Last Testament, Vol 1
Chapter #15
Chapter title: I Am Not The A Prophet
In reference to what Arpana just quoted … if Sheela was projecting on Osho, god only knows what she saw. In terms of compartmentalisation she must have been in a million pieces trying to sort out the zen-sticks from reality. From recent interviews of her, I can see that she still hasn’t pulled it all together yet.
If she bugged Osho’s room it would be to hear what others were saying to Osho (that she wasn’t telling him) …
I understand (from reading) that in Osho’s room it was his chair that was bugged.
There are people who don´t care about their children´s cough but plant on grandfather´s grave.
If someone has the eyes, it won´t be difficult to see, it is not just Osho´s room but the whole vision is being bugged.
Whenever vested interests of common mind enter in the pious and sacred, what more one can expect!
From Parmartha´s angle i can understand, he invested his emotional energy of youth full years during Lotus paradise in Rajneeshpuram and lost in the bubble burst.
So it is important again and again to analyse and do the postmartom.
“That was the last time I saw her”
That seems to me to be the most telling part of the quotes above. I know from other recollections of the Ranch that on her last night there before leaving the commune Sheela did drive up to Osho’s house, but then turned round at the gate.
From what I can see Osho did invite her to “come clean” about everything. I feel sure he would have been compassionate, though she would have been moved from her post as Secretary. For her own development, even now, it would be an absolute priority – to come clean. And it would remove the burden from her heart.
its a pity they didn’t have CCTV set up.
that video could have got onto that tv program
“America`s dumbest criminals”!
she bugs a room ,then goes in the next day with the information shes got from the bug, and repeats it back to the victim, saying she and 3 other of her conspirators dreamt it.
she,the material girl, tries to blag bhagwan shes got psychic powers?
could anyone really expect to get away with such a ridiculous excuse?
seen as a crime drama,it would be a pretty ludicrous script.
Yeah, man, I can dig that, but I heard that Sheela was wearing a magic amulet that made her invisible. So, like maybe Osho couldn’t see her, even though he had x-ray vision. Because like when you are invisible you are like invisible. I’ll bet you didn’t think of that, now did you? Come clean. Admit it. You’ll feel good to like let go of all that heavy karma.
was osho’s room bugged or not ? – bhagwan has told us why he concludes it was – either you believe him or you dont –
i dont see what there is to be discussed on this thread – (ED: THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED)
sheela – sheela – sheela – sheela sheela –
the cracked record of those who have no involvement with osho or the sannyas movement today –
endlessly going over the wounds of their youth in resentment of the master they could not open themselves to or benefit from,
shifting the blame onto him for their own lack of intelligence
I say, old boy, that’s a bit stiff, I must say! (As the actress said to the bishop)…
If you carry on like that people’ll think you’re some kind of fanatic.
Calm down, old chap, give someone else a chance – you’re not the only one around here, you know. No good for the old blood pressure either, so the medics say.
I myself find doing a crossword rather handy when I’m tempted to, er, use a ‘cross word’ (hahahaha).
Why not try it? It might change your whole life….
the gloves are going to come off soon.
the alcoholic baboons and ex-sannyasins obsessed with destroying oshos vision have had it their way for long enough.
the only man who can save oshos vision,oshama brian laden has recently primed all at al cloneda about his ingenious master plan to destroy anti-osho negativity for good.
then,finally,the unconscious masses are bound to start taking him seriously…
on 7-11,
…..they`re going to blow up the internet….
muuhahahahaha….
To bring about a revolution in our mind and thoughts, the first thing is to drop the fear, to be ready to know oneself without fear.
The second thing is to get rid of all the censorship and restrictions we have imposed on the mind. And we have imposed many restrictions on it. Our education, our moral preachings, our civilization and culture have imposed many restrictions — “Don’t think about this. Don’t allow a thought of this kind to enter your mind. It is a bad thought! Don’t allow it!” When we suppress them, the bad thoughts do not get destroyed, they only go deeper into our subconscious. By suppressing it, a thought does not leave, it goes more deeply into our being — because what we are suppressing arose from within, it did not come from somewhere outside.
Osho.
The Inner Journey
Chapter #4
Chapter title: The ways to encounter the mind
I don’t have a problem with editing.
I object to censorship.
I wrote that dr and you share moaning about
the subjects posted here and that you should go and open a board
to talk about what you wanted, somewhere else.
That was removed which is censorship, not moderation.
ED: SN POLICY IS TO KEEP POSTS RELATED TO THE TOPIC AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. POSTS THAT ARE WHOLLY OFF-TOPIC ARE LIKELY TO BE REMOVED.
COMPLAINTS ABOUT THE SUBJECTS OF TOPICS ARE NOTED, BUT ARE BEST MADE DIRECT TO SN.
WE ALSO DISCOURAGE PERSONAL ABUSE AND USING SN AS A MEANS OF CONTINUALLY PROPAGATING A PARTICULAR VIEWPOINT OR ‘PARTY LINE’ THAT WOULD BE BEST EXPRESSED ELSEWHERE.
PLEASE NOTE FROM NOW SN WILL ADHERE MORE STRICTLY TO THESE GUIDELINES AS WE FEEL THIS WILL HOPEFULLY ENCOURAGE MORE PEOPLE TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS FORUM.
Being mean about their moaning.
Is this the Meaning or the Moaning of Life?
Arps, expressing yourself, rather than through veiled Osho glove puppet quote-as more to my taste.
People who use Master quotes to lend pseudo authority and objectivity to their position are…. scoundrels, nincompoops, cop-outs, unimaginative guru addicts etc.. Now where can I find a quote to make me sound right?
Sounds a bit fascistic to me buster.
I become a clone of you or there’s something wrong with me.
No thanks.
You have been warned Arps, for not being surrendered enough to my infallible higher wisdom, and placed on a blacklist.
You know what this means, don’t you?
Any more resistance to your own growth, and you will have to be banned from my london osho bedroom commune.
It’s a compassionate device naturally, but just think of all the fun you’ll be missing.
His blessings
I’ve only been on the receiving end of this with about another million or so people, so yawn basically…………………
Existence’s postal service hasn’t given up on you yet then.
I am a cove, (small bay with narrow entrance)?
The latter sounds about right, but the first sentence………..
what does that mean???????
Cove.
noun
British informal, dated
a man:he is a perfectly amiable cove
Origin:
mid 16th century: perhaps from Romany kova ‘thing or person’
Although on reflection your a good humored cove so………….!!!!!
wierdo frankie booboo again displays his junior school playground mentality – nothing positive to contribute – his laughs are on others expense -
“be a joke unto thyself” – osho
“be a joke unto thyself” – osho
Precisely, DR.
Hahahahahahahahah, DeRage, that put that Osho destroyer in his place. Hahahahahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!
Yeah, like DeRage is right. man. You have to let go of Sheela. Don’t let go of Osho, though. Because that would be like throwing the voodoo doll out with the water like. How can anyone blame Osho for being bugged? This is an insult to our master, This is a sannyasin website dedicated to Osho’s legacy: either you believe him or you dont? Osho never told a lie in his life and you are all in cahoots with that evil man Amrito, who lives with dog ends…we know…the cleaner told us so in an effort to raise humanity’s consciousness. We have to go back to the beginning and start a new, better sannyas, where everything is free and we just dance and like feel the energy. Osho was a big thinker so don’t you dare try shifting the blame onto him for their own lack of intelligence, because people like me and Derage have a special connection to Osho and we are not going to let you old people like us destroy it. We will fight to the last. Jai….what’s his name?…..Osho!.
Pure bug-gery from the Sheelob (Giant Spider bug from lord of the rings), it seems.
I shall pretend to care, though it is Sannyasolds. Can there be any more pus to ooze out of this wound?
Perhaps Mr P’s favourite series are 1 & 2.
As in favourite series of the House of Borgia 1,2,3 or 4?
The production company is now working on series 5 and probably the last.
Or is it like Osho, groundbreaking first album, ‘Poona 1–The Age Of Innocence”,. Then the difficult second album, “A Bit of a Flop”. The comeback third album, “House of Fun”.
And fourth album, trying to be commercial and generally panned by critics, “No heart and Soul”.
As anand frank says, the story line has a hole the size of the grand canyon in it, and a suspension bridge of disbelief.
Sure the wicked stepmother may be dumber than a box of rocks but duh… this is insulting to rocks.
This Sannyas Tardis time machine will certainly zig and then zag, though because of the players , “plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.”
A brief pause while we clean our guns and reload…
And anyway, why did Osho care whether he was being bugged on not, if he wasn’t doing anything wrong? (grins)
Bv, Big Sister is watching you.
Uk is the most watched cctv nation in the world.
Never mind all the discourse word magic, would have liked to hear/see some Osho reality tv/audio.
Are recordings still existing I wonder?
Sheela and guilt…
Parmartha, i wish to finance your ticket to Basel. Rheinefeden is a near by town, where here old people´s commune exist and is flourishing.
Why not have a direct chat with her?
Wow, Shants, man, that is such a brilliant idea man. And funny too. Like Parmartha meets Sheela at Basel Hauptbahnof and they like fall in love, just like in that movie the Exorcist, or was it Saving Private Ryan? Antway you know what I mean. Keep up the good work. We have to pass on this part of Osho’s heritage to young people while your heart is beating like a big bass drum.
Why don’t ‘you’ ring her Shants? You could talk to her about your porn collection… she might be able to help you with the Matures section…
It’s been proven that Osho’s room was indeed bugged.. many pictures confirming that fact, as well as testimony from those arrested and pleading guilty to charges.. Civilian law enforcement also acknowledge that his room was bugged and listen devices were found all over the Ranch- the hotel, various other sannyas residences, the phone lines go to and from the Ranch.. so, why are some arguing against? are they bored? are they from Russia, like someone mentioned the other day that some russian sannyasins can’t accept Pune 1′s “shady” past? Time to move on and let those stragglers buzz around into oblivion.
Yeah, HSR, I can dig it babe. The revolution begins right now. Like move on sleepyheads. The future is here right now. Like who cares about bugs, right? Especially dead bugs. We want living bugs!
@ Honeysucklerose…. “so, why are some arguing against? are they bored? are they from Russia…”
Or from British MI5 or the American CIA, deliberately spreading disinformation?
There seem to be three types who want this story suppressed or scotched. One, are those who say it was all down to Osho, two, those who are Sheela apologists, and thirdly and oddly enough those who inherited the organisation, but brought no attention to this strange story of the final days of the Ranch witches.
As Honeysuckle says it is totally clear that Osho’s room was bugged without his knowledge but it is a fact that is often avoided by commentators, for their own purposes.
It is however a crucial fact in dispelling the myth that Osho “knew” everything that was going on, and also to apportion at least some major responsibility to Sheela and her gang. I myself have not seen any nuanced “history” of the Ranch which weaves all these factors together and makes them pellucidly clear.
One can only assume that those who “took over” from Sheela gave the matter very little air because they wanted to minimise what they would have seen as “bad” publicity for sannyas, and also by implication for Osho as he had somehow allowed the whole Ranch organisation to get so out of hand.
The reason to give anything like this energy is simply to make sure the “lesson” is absolutely fully appreicated, and to live in future without even the outside possibility that such things would repeat themselves due to unthinking “surrender”.
when osho arrived back to india after an eventful tour round the world thrown out of and barred from everywhere, after staying for sometime in someones house in bombay where there was not enough room to see all of the sannyasins who came to see him, he returned to poona rajneesh ashram –
immediately the poona police were invading his bedroom and trying to throw him out of poona too – only by posing with a bajaj scooter and gaining the protection of bajaj, a major industrialist with factories in poona, did he manage to hang on there
later on there was a mob of hindu fundamentalsts in the street outside the ashram with heavy equipment come to break the ashram to pieces – we closed the gates and mobbed inside singing songs and eventually they left
there was so much happening every day in those days around bhagwan i dont suppose anyone had the time to bother with publicising or suppressing facts about bugging on the ranch –
the whole epsode of rajneeshpuram was already old news even then in end of 1986 – those who came to be with him in poona two were simply glad he was still alive and speaking to us again –
nobody i met was obsessed with sheela or bugging or anything that had happened – rajneeshpuram was forgotten and life was happening now, today – the buddhafield was in full flow again and that was all that mattered to us who were there
“The reason to give anything like this energy is simply to make sure the “lesson” is absolutely fully appreicated, and to live in future without even the outside possibility that such things would repeat themselves due to unthinking “surrender”.”
Also to compassionately let yourself off the hook Parmartha, (as you’ve mentioned before), from any associated feelings of guilt or sadness or fear at the time. That you can do, with a big self-hug, (and my guilt debugging course Tm, and 121 skype sessions, paypal/visa)
But Utopia hasn’t been built yet. Perhaps in a galaxy far far away…
Though rumour has it that it is currently being assembled by chinese foxcon workers, and is going to be the next big thing from apple, called.. itopia.
It’s proving more difficult than originally thought with many erm… bugs in the software.
Religion, west or east, is founded on surrender. The guru/disciple relationship is very authoritarian looked at from many sides, and many people swallowed it (also literally!) and still do.
In my opinion the old paradigm is not worth a pair ‘a dimes.
Organisations need transparency and accountability and mandates (as well as young korean dates), and I don’t expect much of that at Pune HQ.
Never was, never will be (never say never!)
It’s not in the dna but is in the DNA (Don’t Know Anything).
The problem with the sannyas “NOW” is that we will never know what happened yesterday, or consider the consequences of our actions today.
We will be repeating the same mistakes over and over. Get used to it. Get better at it. Ok DR?
We spend our lives dealing with the decisions we make, fail to make, others make, fail to make; in the past.
It is pity, Parmartha has no emotional investment with Osho´s work after collapse of Ranch.
Most probably, he would have sensed till now, who knows it was a divine prudence.
How long Osho would have existed in the body. Life of here and now has shown, once conductor left the podium, Orchestra ceased to exist.
Naked ambitions have gone to the level of civil and criminal cases.
Should one not say, ” Thanks God, it is in India and not America. It is only about 24 acres of prime real estate and not a complete township.”
And think about the possibility of hundreds of sexual law suits once community was established?
Few things are possible only in Incredible India.
Shantam requests that we think about the possibility of hundreds of sexual law suits once community was established? He’s right. We all need to like think about this and maybe if enough of us do like the big think Osho’s vision will like manifest bigtime. Shantam gets my vote for being like our leader. I’m sure all of you who are experiencing a special connection to Osho agree, don’t you? No need to answer because I know that you know that I know that Shantam knows that we know.
Doesn’t History proof the fact that almost any possible positive human development is bugged or with Trojans poisoned? Always those interests try to strap a Fascis unto their Order.
Further news update..
Despite claims to the contrary by so called seekers , the whole of the internet has huge reserves of underused gassing , which could provide resources for years to come. In protests across southern England today, thousands of seekers will attempt to prevent what they claim to be ‘ penetration of thick dumb layers of rockheadedness’ and already exhausted opinions in the search for a load of gas and guff.
Protesters also claim that a load of similar wind-bags could provide exactly the same of harmless points of view, when they go round and round, again and again producing huge amounts of reuseable notions.
The main company involved in the search for a load of whacked out fracked out, same old-same old previously-overexplored old energy routes for the millenium (lasting just a few more years at current rates of historical self indulgent exploitation ) is Clonezilla , the company which claims the old model was not such a good investment.
When a company spokesmen was asked , he refused to comment saying ‘The old, sometimes painful, pay as you go ,mistaken, exploratory model of seeking was not such a good copy of the current bells and whistles methods of just dumping everything and hoping the problem goes away unnoticed. Our machines’ designs are completely free and anyone can copy them, like we have. ‘
Police have advised the company to stop producing unmanageable quantities of hot air, until reinforcements are called in from previous experience .
Next week..
Did Jayesh really waste a lot of money on the failed St James Meditation centre in the most expensive part of London, before they all upped and went to New York ? Sannyarn News investigates.
It seems that little credence is given to the possibility that Osho knew his room was bugged. This does not require any kind of mystical or other omniscience, just, as he explained, he started to suspect, because Sheela knew what he was saying privately to Amrito. (In fact, two days after the second quote brought by Parmartha, he not only repeated the story of Sheela trying to explain how she and Vidya and Savita all had dreams of what he was saying privately to Amrito but went on to say, famously, that “Enlightenment simply means I know myself. It does not mean that I know my room is bugged.”
He could well deny that he knew, for whatever purposes of legal and other positioning, but he had figured it out afaic. So anything he might have said after figuring it out could well have been for show, just to provoke her. Thus, the whole drama of asking Amrito to get some suicide drugs could have just been for Sheela, which possibility would make Shanti B’s whole reaction completely unnecessary.
I would even go so far as to say that Osho might even have known they might try to do something to Amrito, but he plays a dangerous game. Apparently, according to Shanti B’s book, Amrito went through that drama (of her murder attempt) in a very surrendered and non-blaming way.
On the topic of irrational, ‘cultish’ behaviour, may I recommend a book by Jon Ronson, an English investigative journalist who produces well-researched, immensely readable, entertaining, humorous books (and no, I don’t get any commission).
‘Out of the Ordinary: True Tales of Everyday Craziness’.
A review states:
Ronson explains in the preface that he wanted to write about how people create bubbles of credibility in which they, sometimes they and their cohorts, are convinced they are rational while everyone else is crazy or do and say plainly irrational things as a consequence of “one thought leading to another”.
I found the pace and style of writing pretty engaging, as easy to read and as interesting as his other more bizarre topics such as military scams, conspiracy theorists and paranoia in such books as The Men Who Stare at Goats and Them: Adventures with Extremists.
The real talent emerges in both accounts like that in the postscript to his piece on the Jesus Christians where he admits first becoming convinced of his own villainy by a deluge of obsessive e-mails and then uncovers the same sorts of manipulation and mind control adopted by cults operating a private nursery.