This should make those with a sense of humour have a good laugh!
SN, this video says, “The uploader has not made it available in your country”. This I cannot bypass!
Same as Kavita.
Same in Germany – must be masterpiece video!
Now someone at UK should copy it from youtube and upload at other lesser known sites.
The video is here:
It’s not youtube, so it may not have the same country restrictions. I don’t know.
Thank you, AA, brilliantly hilarious, in fact this Sheela is a real graceful clone!
Binge-watched it for five times!
Thanks, Anubodh, most amusing.
It was a surprise that people in other countries could not access this through youtube. Do you know anything about their policies, etc, or are individual states like India banning them?
I don’t know who decides country filtering. I just googled “WWC spoof” and found the link. Blocking it makes no sense to me.
In the string: ‘Wild, Wild Country/ Osho 82/85′ (5th March) you wrote:
“I cannot but think that March 16th will be a good day for Sannyas and for Osho….”
I get the feeling from reading your subsequent posts about ‘WWC’ that much of your early optimism has drained away. If that is because you feel Sheela has been (once again) let off lightly, then I think it’s worth remembering that getting her participation in the film was a massive coup for Netflix. Without it, the project was realistically a non-starter.
So, with that amount of leverage, is it beyond the possibility that she made a ‘only if you treat me sympathetically’ deal? Maybe even had a say in who was NOT to be interviewed?
Perhaps, Sheela has just given everyone another taste of Sheela?
Netflix are under no obligation to be ‘fair and balanced’ which seemed to be the expectation, they are in the entertainment business (and unlike the BBC, are not bound by a charter).
Which of these two are the execs. at Netflix most likely to be meditating over: Subscriptions and balance sheet, or the future well-being of Sannyas? (They may even say: “Who’s Sannyas?”)
The takeaway from ‘WWC’ is that Rajneeshpuram will always raise more questions than answers.
Probably just youtube filters, which do “makes no sense” blocks regularly.
Thanks for your reply.
With Parmartha’s view he says that he is still pleased about the Netflix stuff as it has given a major lift in interest in Sannyas and Osho, so can’t be bad in that direction.
As a film, he himself thought it was weak, as it simply gave two convicted criminals a free range, and did not ask them any difficult questions. But he agrees this may have been all fixed beforehand, and of course, we don’t know yet how much she and others were paid for their long interviews.
For what it is worth, I’m a 38 year-old man from the US who had somehow never heard of any of this, and I was profoundly moved by the documentary. It has encouraged me to buy some books and to read up on some of the thoughts and teachings of Osho.
I think that if somebody watches the show with an open mind and heart, that there will be more to be gained than lost by you and your organization.
Good to hear that, Michael.
Michael, you seem to be an intelligent person.
This website is established since 10+ years or so. Is it possible to share how you got to this website? Since it’s not a widely known website outside of its sannyas circle.
It’s always interesting/helpful to know a little background of contributors.
I posted this link on SN some days ago yet the moderators didn’t post it. I suppose they wanted to take credit for it.
NOT SO, Dean, WE HAVEN’T SEEN ALL OF YOUR LINKS YET – GIVE US A BIT MORE TIME, PLEASE!
Out here in Oregon, every few years or so, a media outlet will run another story about Osho, Sheela, Rajneespuran, Antelope. This has been going on since the Ranch fell. All of this hullabaloo of late is only due to Netflix’s world-wide reach. This is and has been old news out here in Oregon. Go to nearby Washington State (Seattle), no one cares.
We’ve had these types of discussions and arguments for the last 10 years on Sannyas News, even banning several commenters for so-called “Anti-Osho” or “Anti-Sannyas” statements or attitudes which were actually similar to comments being made of late. Why the sudden change of heart on the part of SN moderators? Why the sudden tolerance of dissent?
This is just the same as the so-called “Anti-sannyas/Osho” commentators were making some 5-10 years ago. Seems like all the world-wide media attention has a big part to play in this change. All of a sudden, the “We didn’t know it was this bad” mantra has appeared out of thin air.
Only Sheela’s admission during the interview that she tried to have Osho’s doctor killed is something new. A confession is a rarity with regards to crimes allegedly committed.
As for all the rest: Unless you’ve been living in a cave or have had your head in the sand for the last 30 years, this is all old news. Stop the pretence and the “We didn’t know”, crap. We knew, some 30 years ago, we knew. Yet the denial continues.
Having Netflix and those two documentarians releasing their film is a blessing; maybe the sannyas world can stop its denial and look at how things are actually run in their world, particularly in Pune and Nepal. Maybe then Osho’s vision will come into fruition.
Dean, what is your interpretation of Osho’s vision?
Lokesh – emptiness.
Most probably, bookish answer!
Osho is the only individual I have ever come across who has not attempted to control me, dominate me; use approval and disapproval to do that; and equally, I realised, as I wrote the first sentence, I have never attempted to control him, dominate him, or considered it was possible, or even wanted to.
I trust his intentions absolutely.
Arpana, what good does trusting Osho’s intentions absolutely do you on a personal level? Would you suggest that doing so might be beneficial to others and if so why?
It’s all very well making such apparently spiritual declarations, but I fail to see the point if you do not explain why such a thing needs to be declared.
I don’t trust your intentions to the tune of even 1%. Try extrapolating from that.
If you had a meaningful connection to him, as appossed to believing the sun rises and sets because you exist, you wouldn’t need to ask.
Arpana does not trust Lokesh´s intention even 1%. Such dumb followers were clapping when their master talks about one world.
These people who don´t trust others will be the custodians of that paper boat called one world!
Lokesh will never help you take over the running of the ashram, Shantam.
Arpana, I did not request that you trust me. I asked you to answer some basic questions. This is a blog site. I suspect that you can’t come up with any real answers to my questions and hence create a smokescreen. This is something which does not surprise me.
Last word game.
Blah, blah, blah!!
The phrase ‘blah blah blah’ is generally used in response to someone who is saying something very close to the truth but you have no intention of admitting to.
I never knew that.
Trust is an interesting topic. You either trust or you do not. I don’t think trust has to do with someone external, as in I trust him, her etc. Trust is an entirely subjective quality. Trusting ‘in’ something or someone is beside the point.
I think Osho wanted people to develop trust in themselves. If I say such and such is a very trusting person I mean it as a compliment. It takes courage and the willingness to being open and, erm…trust.
Lokesh said, “Trust is an interesting topic.”
I agree with that.
I am not in a permanent state of trust about everybody, but I would say I am closer to trusting life in general these days, so I can trust taking a pop at you one minute, but now responding to this most recent post sincerely and honestly is comfortable. I trust my inconsistency if you will.
I have come to trust my own perceptions and discerning ability, and don’t expect of myself that I need to act out some copycat idea of what Osho is.
I trust how I live my life and behave. Trust my trust in Osho.
I withdraw the remark about trust and you, and apologise.
I see you as something of a ‘bighead’, and rather set in your ways, but I don’t see you as a bad man. Not even vaguely.
I’ll buy you a beverage of your choice if we ever come across one another.
I’m a coffee drinker.
“It’s all very well making such apparently spiritual declarations, but I fail to see the point if you do not explain why such a thing needs to be declared.”
I give you a hint, Loco:
There are things that are destroyed by explanation. Ever heard of it?
Trying to manipulate me like that. LOL.
Is there a single follower of any alive or dead guru who does not feel like the same as Arpana for ‘his’ Osho?!
So let me get this right, Shantam:
Trusting Osho is a failing, and NOT trusting YOU is a failing!!!!
Dean, cannot understand your comment. Please supply a post or poster from the last ten years which you think we have banned, and for what?
My friend “Prem Bubbie” received several warnings, then banned by SN moderator(s) going back 6-8 years ago because one or more sannaysins complained of his “anti-Osho”, “anti-sannyasin” commnets – comments, btw, that are very similar to those posted of late. Lokesh and Frank, along with Shantam Prem, should know. Just go back and re-read the comments. It may take some time. Give me time and I’ll find one or two others who were banned.
I remember Prem Bubbie, he was good for a laugh. He was a kind of hardcore-zen, in-yer-face, blue-collar, kick-ass, Bhagwan Bukowski Beat poet kind of guy who, by his own account, spent a lot of time in “tittie-bars”. He was good value for money.
P.T. Mistelburger likened him to some guy in Gurdjieff`s Prieure called Rachmilievitch that G paid to stick around because he irritated the hell out of people.
He also went under the noms de plume of “J.C.Pennie” and some girls/flower name, wasn`t it?
Did he get banned?
He was on here for a long time.
Dean Carter. Come to think of it that could be character from Jack Kerouac`s ‘On the Road’ too. Some Beat Bodhidharma bum pumping gas in a remote ghost town in Oregon or something like that.
As for William Stack…
“William Stack was born on March 5, 1882 in Baker, Oregon. He an American actor who began his acting career in Great Britain. Over the course of his career he appeared in over 50 films in the U.S. and the UK, including such notable films as ‘Mary of Scotland’, ‘Captains Courageous’ and ‘Gone with the Wind’.”
Your friend could dish it out, but he couldn’t take it. He was psychotic.
We have had different moderators over the years at SN.
My own view on the Ranch story, and also the wider history of Sannyas is the same as it was in 2000 when the site started, and I always expressed this as Editor.
I was ome of the first to explore, for example, Osho’s use of nitrous oxide on the Ranch and Sheela’s crazy crimnalities, much denied when we started out.
The nitrous issue was still being denied up until a few years ago. That said, Osho gave a discourse back in 1983 after Shiva’s tell-all book came out where he begged Shiva to “stop telling lies about me” and “to come back home”. I don’t know if the video is still available or if the Pune gang erased it, but at least 500-1000 people watched it at the Ranch, including me.
So Osho was lying at the time, for obvious reasons. Amamzing what it takes for the truth to be told and finally accepted by most of the masses.
Dean aka Prem Bubbie, Babaslezvana, JC Pennie, Honeysucklerose, suspected CIA agent by some sannyasins and a moderater here, who was banned years ago and then came back playing the same game under several names, most recently as ‘Dean Carter’, to put a completely fabricated story that Osho was involved in Sheela’s crimes but Reagen let him go! into this site, when there was lots of attention in the media on Osho after Wild Wild Country came out.
I think it was more like the other way round.
Shiva (Hugh Milne) had left the Ranch and wrote Osho a letter, apologising.
Osho said that he could come back.
This was before the book came out, (which was written in collaboration with the US authorities and was full of disinformation),had come out, I think Hugh had written an article in a magazine at this point:
“Somebody was asking me in a letter…because just a few days ago Shiva has written a letter: “Please forgive me. I have done everything wrong. I have said lies against you, and the burden of it all is so much it is killing me.”
The other person was asking, “If Shiva comes back” — because this letter may be just the beginning of the camel coming back from Santa Fe — “would you give him the same position that he used to have, your bodyguard?”
I said, “Certainly. I trust him.”
‘From Death to Deathlessness’
Later, when Hugh Milne’s book came out, Osho thought it contained enough untruths to sue him, unusual for someone who usually courted controversy.
As far as the nitrous issue being ‘denied’, it was Osho, after all, who had invited Osho to take photos of himself in the dental chair, under the influence of nitrous oxide, which were meant to be published in a book, for everyone to see. Another device intended to shock people and help clear away more people who were not really with him for the right reasons.
And, Osho’s dentist has written about this.
“Shiva has written a book against me, full of lies. I have told the English sannyasins to sue him in court, because what he is saying is utter nonsense. And you can see the cunningness.
In Poona, every evening I used to have a meeting for people who were taking sannyas. It was an open meeting — almost sixty, seventy, sometimes a hundred people would be present. One dozen people or maybe more would be initiated. And ten sannyasins were dancing as mediums to create a vibrant energy.
And Shiva has written in his book that every night I need ten women, without making any reference to the fact that those ten women are mediums and they dance in an open place with one hundred people watching, a dozen people present to be initiated. He does not mention that; he simply mentions every night I need ten women.
Can you see — can a person be more ugly? And he used to trust in me so much that he used to say that he can give his life — and this is what he is giving! And there are thousands of things which are absolutely wrong, fabrication, fiction, from his own mind.”
Dean Carter, can you please share on SN about your sannyas journey? You seem to be a well-baked sannyasin!
I’m more like a half-baked sannyasin.
Ok, if you say so, PB, but share with us your real sannyas story, if you have one!
This video is similar to what happened at the Ranch:
The US Government is harrassing people who simply want to choose to live on their own. They are just a few veterans who chose to live self-sufficiently. Their nearest neighbour is miles away.
Yet the Authorities claim “the neighbours are complaining” and have told them to demolish their houses.
Regardless of what the sannyasins did at the Ranch, the government would have demolished the Ranch regardless. The neighbours of Antelope who complained – they were paid by the government to complain.
Watch this video – in 2018, the same thing is happening to these people.
Anyone who says if Sheela had done something different, things would have been just fine: you are naive.
The essence of Laksha´s post is very clear: if same treatment is given to others then Bhagwan´s people cannot cry like babies being treated badly by stepmothers.
To be true and fair, most of the human beings will feel not even one per cent sympathy for founders and followers of Rajneeshpuram. One must be cult´s follower to create a glorified history from highly laughable and outlandish behaviour.
Basically, the whole saga will be taught in university psychological classes to understand Abnormal Psychology and Narcissistic cult following.
The essence of democracy and modern society means following law and constitutional provisions with utter respect. As we see, western world never forgives its public figures, even when just the zip in the trousers is not properly closed.
In my understanding, biggest crime of Sheela is to create rosy picture in the mind of her Bhagwan to leave cult-wise fertile land of India.
Doctor Devaraj is criminally blamed for feeding Bhagwan with opioids kind of stuff. Osho simply got cut off from the reality of life, otherwise he was always very pragmatic, with clarity like professional chess player who is aware about all the possible moves.
“Doctor Devaraj is criminally blamed for feeding Bhagwan with opioids kind of stuff. Osho simply got cut of from the reality of life, otherwise he was always very pragmatic with clarity like professional chess player….”
What crime are you talking about here, Shantam?
Where have you heard that Osho was being fed opiod kind of stuff. I’ve never heard that before.
And a doctor giving a patient painkillers is not considered a crime. Besides, Osho always preferred Western allopathic medicine and always pooh-poohed Indian traditional medicine and alternatives. He was already using Western allopathic medicines before he ever came into contact with Devaraj/Amrito.
He also was very proud of his British doctor, by the way. He preferred the English accent, that’s why Devaraj/Amrito used to read the passages during the satsangs and introduced Osho’s discourses on the cassettes.
“Doctor Devaraj is criminally blamed for feeding Bhagwan with opioids kind of stuff.”
Evidence, please, Shantam. Unless you don’t mind descending to the level of the gutter press in order to console yourself for the mess your life is in.
Opioids I have used as generic term. The stuff Osho was given in the name of medication was not multivitamin tonics!
You’d be thrown out of any court as an uninformed, unreliable witness, Shantam. You invent accusations purely to suit yourself. Shame on you.
Shantam, it was actually an Indian doctor who introduced Osho to sleeping pills way back in 1960, as Frank pointed out the other day.
So he was probably well acquainted with valium or similar drugs before Devaraj/Amrito became his doctor:
“It was just a coincidence: I was staying in Patna in 1960 and I was suffering from a migraine. I had suffered from migraine since my enlightenment; I had never suffered before. And the migraine is in only half of the mind; it is the active part of the mind that has it. If the active mind loses contact with the inactive mind, then it goes on working but it has no time to rest.
Because I was staying in the house of a doctor…he was very concerned that this was a terrible migraine, and it was really very strong. I could not open my eyes, it was so painful.
The whole day I would simply lie down with a wet towel around my head. But it was not a help – just to pass the time…. And it remained with me for twenty-one days exactly when it came. And it came at least four times a year, so it was wasting too much time.
The doctor gave me some sleeping pills. He said, “At least in the night you will have a good sleep; otherwise this migraine continues twenty-four hours a day.” Usually a migraine does not continue for twenty-four hours; ordinarily, migraine starts at sunrise and disappears by sunset, because it is only in the active part. As you drop out of activity, and the world starts cooling down and you are preparing for sleep, the migraine disappears.
But that was not the case with me- it continued for twenty-four hours —so I said, “There is no harm in trying.” And it really helped: I could sleep, after many years, for the first time. I don’t actually know what the sleeping pills did chemically, but one thing I am certain about —which the chemist may not know: it made it possible again for the active mind to be connected with the inactive mind.
I remained a watcher, something in me remained awake, but only a small flame of awakening; otherwise everything went into sleep. My feeling was that the sleeping pill helped to make a contact with the non-active mind, which I had lost completely….
It was just this doctor who, feeling so much for me, said, “The whole day you are in trouble so much; at least for the night, take a good dose and go to sleep.”
But the strange effect was that I went to sleep and the next morning there was no migraine. He was also surprised. This was strange; these were only sleeping pills, they were not meant for migraine. And for migraine I had taken all kinds of medicine – nothing helped.”
‘Light on the Path’ – Beyond the mind is your reality
Shantam is obsessed by Amrito. Amrito travels around from country to country without any fear like Sheela of prosecution.
Maybe you should ask why Sheela has not travelled out of Switzerland in almost 30 years….
I feel that one part of Shantam is actually not that well, and misses his Poona 3 period so much he has never recovered from it being taken away…in his view.
What a projection.
Shantam says, “As we see, western world never forgives its public figures, even when just the zip in the trousers is not properly closed.”
This is not true. Take Donald Trump as an example. He does crazy things on an almost daily basis. Most previous presidents would have been impeached by now for doing a tenth of what Trump has done. Yet, the man remains in power. I reckon that is because the general public has a very short attention span. Otherwise, people would take to the streets and protest against Trump in their millions. They do not.
Western forces destroyed Iraq and Libya. They did so for completely fabricated reasons. Millions of people’s lives were ruined as a result. Nobody has been held accountable for such atrocities.
How about Brexit? The referendum was won because of presenting completely fake news: Boris Johnson standing in front of a Brexit campaign bus with slogans claiming a massive windfall for the NHS if Britain left the EU. That was a complete lie. Nothing could be further from the truth. Yet, Boris is now Britain’s foreign secretary. Not only has the jerk been forgiven, he has been rewarded for his lies.
There are many such examples. Of course, one can always find an example to back up what you are saying. We live in a world full of examples. In this case, the evidence is so overwhelming that it shows you are completely wrong in your assumption, Shantam.
Lokesh, you are a nice man with wisdom of a village dweller.
The way Donald Trump has to pass through scrutiny and insults on daily basis because of snowflakes, one must appreciate his zen-like zeal to continue.
With your oft-expressed affinity for such a fundamentally stupid, lying character as Trump, I’m surprised Sheela didn’t co-opt you as part of her coterie, Shantam. You’d have had your own special niche in the WWC parody and would have been well on your way to rising to the, er, ‘top’, by now….
Shantam – if anyone were to be banned it would be you; the charge: failing to deal with reality on a daily basis.
Hasta la vista, baby!!!
Dean Carter is another name of Prem Bubbie.
Faceless people are immortals!
I don´t shy away to say I am a failure when I compare myself with successful entities in religious business, yet can feel proud I did not sell paper boats!
Another aspect is, most of people who have lived their youth around Osho are living vagabonds. It is a price one pays for feeling contented.
“Another aspect is, most of people who have lived their youth around Osho are living vagabonds. It is a price one pays for feeling contented.”
Well, Shantam, your first sentence here is yet another unsubstantiated claim (which no doubt you choose to believe in order to console yourself for your own situation).
And as for saying you’re “feeling contented”, how come the vast majority of your posts are saturated with repetitious, obsessive rage at people you perceive as enemies who’ve ruined your life? Not to mention the half-truths and fabrications you employ to justify such vitriol?
“Contented”, eh? That sounds more like the Prozac talking than a genuine existential well-being.
You’re such a liar to yourself, Shantam. And as such, it would appear you’ve simply wasted much of your time in all those years at the ashram (notice I’m saying “much”, not “all”).
Later on, I’ll tell you something Veena wrote about the end of Poona 2, which puts your own chronically negative attitude into perspective.
Shantam declares, “Another aspect is, most of people who have lived their youth around Osho are living vagabonds. It is a price one pays for feeling contented.”
He’s come away with similar statements before. A very negative view for sure. It also happens to be almost completely untrue. In my extended community of friends, sannyasins are known as people who know how to get their shit together. There are one or two living in the hills who are unconcerned with material things. Their lives are not always easy. Within a few kilometres of where I live are two of the most successful restaurants on Ibiza. They make yearly profits that probably run into the millions. Both of those places are sannyasin-owned and run. One place in particular is run by a lovely matriach who learned her trade around Osho in the kitchens.
Shantam does not seem to have learned basic sannyasin understanding like projecting. He constantly projects his inner world onto the outer. The other day I spent an interesting afternoon with a wandering shaman. Amongst other things, he demonstrated how our subconscious creates our personal reality and how important it is to direct our intention in the direction we wish to progress. If we do not intend our life to be a blessing it won’t be. Personal responsibility, one might say.
This is where Shantam is going majorly wrong. He constantly blames the outside for the way he is, instead of the other way round. Shifting blame is something that is particular to humans. It also makes a man weak. By blaming others for how one feels you are giving away your power to those others.
Osho wanted his sannyasins to play the game of life to the max and take an active role in the world at large. He was against social spongers and parasites. Zorba the Buddha was the message: There is nothing wrong in enjoying what the world has to offer. Just don’t make the mistake of being identified with it. About sums it up.
Only losers win at this game is all very well but show me a good loser and I’ll show you a good loser.
Thanks for your very clearly-cut response.
Very good take on these ‘situations’ or ‘failures to this world’. Or whatever we may call it.
You must be logged in to post a comment.