A Perfect Englishman: John Godolphin Bennett
Osho speaks of Bennett in his “Books I have Loved’
Bennett with his wife
The first book is by Bennett, an Englishman, a perfect Englishman. The book is about an absolutely unknown Indian mystic, Shivapuri Baba. The world has come to know about him only through Bennett’s book.
Shivapuri Baba was certainly one of the rarest flowerings, particularly in India where so many idiots are pretending to be mahatmas. To find a man like Shivapuri Baba in India is really either luck or else a tremendous work of research. There are five hundred thousand mahatmas in India; that is the actual number. To find a real man among this crowd is almost impossible.
Shivapuri Baba
But Bennett was fortunate in many ways. He was also the first man to discover Gurdjieff. It was neither Ouspensky nor Nicoll, nor anyone other than Bennett. Bennett found Gurdjieff in a refugee camp in Constantinople. Those were the days of the Russian Revolution. Gurdjieff had to leave Russia; on the way he was shot twice before he escaped. Our styles are different, but in a strange way destiny may play the same game again….
Gurdjieff in a refugee camp! – just thinking of it, I can’t believe humanity can fall so low. Putting a Buddha, or Gurdjieff, Jesus or Bodhidharma in a refugee camp…. When Bennett discovered him, Gurdjieff was standing in a food queue. The food was given only once a day, and the queue was long. There were thousands of refugees who had left Russia because the communists were murdering people without any consideration who they were murdering, or for what. You will be surprised to know they murdered almost ten million Russians.
How did Bennett discover Gurdjieff? Gurdjieff sitting among his disciples would not be difficult to recognize, but Bennett recognized him in dirty rotten clothes, unwashed for many days. How did he recognize him in that queue? Those eyes, you cannot hide them. Those eyes… whether the man is sitting on a golden throne, or standing in a refugee camp, they are the same. Bennett brought Gurdjieff to the West.
Nobody thanks poor Bennett for it, and there is a reason… it is because he was a wavering kind of person. Bennett never betrayed Gurdjieff while he was alive… he did not dare. Those eyes were too much; he had twice seen their tremendous impact. He reports in his book on Gurdjieff – which is not a great book, that is why I am not going to count it, but I am just referring to it – Bennett says, “I came to Gurdjieff tired and exhausted after a long journey. I was sick, very sick, thinking I was going to die. I had come to see him only so that before I die I could see those two eyes again… my last experience.”
He came to Gurdjieff’s room. Gurdjieff looked at him, stood up, came close and hugged him. Bennett could not believe it… it was not Gurdjieff’s way. If he had slapped him that would have been more expected, but he hugged him! But there was more to the hug… the moment Gurdjieff touched him, Bennett felt a tremendous upsurge of energy. At the same time he saw Gurdjieff turning pale. Gurdjieff sat down; then with great difficulty stood up and went to the bathroom, saying to Bennett, “Don’t be worried, just wait for ten minutes and I will be back, the same as ever.”
Bennett says, “I have never felt such a wellbeing, such health, such power. It seemed I could do anything.”
It is felt by many people who take drugs – LSD or marijuana and other drugs – that under their impact they feel they can do anything. One woman thought she could fly, so she flew out of a window on the thirtieth floor of a New York building… you can conclude what happened… not even pieces of the woman were found.
Bennett says, “I felt I could do everything. At that moment I understood the famous statement by Napoleon: ‘Nothing is impossible.’ I not only understood it but felt I could do anything I wanted. But I knew it was Gurdjieff’s compassion. I was dying, and he had saved me.”
This happened twice… again a few years later. In the East this is called ‘the transmission’; the energy can jump from one flame to another lamp which is dying. Even though such great experiences happened to him, Bennett was a wavering man. He could not waver and betray like Ouspensky, but when Gurdjieff died, then he betrayed.
He started looking for another master. What a misfortune! – I mean misfortune for Bennett. It was good for others, because that was how he came to find Shivapuri Baba. But Shivapuri Baba, howsoever great, is nothing compared to Gurdjieff. I cannot believe it of Bennett… and he was a scientist, a mathematician… only that gives me the clue. The scientist has almost always behaved foolishly outside his own specific field.
I always define science as “knowing more and more about less and less,” and religion as “knowing less and less about more and more.” The culmination of science will be knowing everything about nothing, and the culmination of religion will be knowing all… not knowing about all, simply knowing… not about – just knowing. Science will end in ignorance; religion will end in enlightenment.
All the scientists, even the great ones, have proved foolish in many ways outside their specific field. They behave childishly. Bennett was a scientist and mathematician of a certain standing, but he wavered, he missed. He started looking for another master again. And it is not that he remained with Shivapuri either.
Shivapuri Baba was a very old man when Bennett met him. He was almost one hundred and ten years old. He was really made of steel. He lived for almost one and a half centuries. He was seven feet tall and one hundred and fifty years old and still there was no sign that he was going to die. He decided to leave the body, it was his decision.
Shivapuri was a silent man, he did not teach. Particularly a man who had known Gurdjieff and his tremendous teaching would find it very ordinary to be with Shivapuri Baba. Bennett wrote his book and started searching again for a master. Shivapuri Baba was not even dead yet.
Then, in Indonesia, Bennett found Mohammed Subud, the founder of the movement called Subud. ‘Subud’ is a short form of Sushil-Buddha-Dharma; it is just the first letter of these three words. What foolishness! Bennett started introducing Mohammed Subud, a very good man, but not a master… nothing even compared to Shivpuri Baba… no question arises about Gurdjieff. Bennett brought Mohammed Subud to the West, and started introducing him as the successor to Gurdjieff. Now this is utter stupidity….
But Bennett writes beautifully, mathematically, systematically. His best book is Shivapuri Baba. Although Bennett was a fool, even if you allow a monkey to sit at a typewriter once in a while he may come upon something beautiful – perhaps a statement which only a buddha could make – just by knocking the typewriter keys here and there. But he will not understand what he has written.
Bennett continued in this way. Soon he became disillusioned with Mohammed Subud and started searching for yet another master. Poor fellow, his whole life he was searching and searching unnecessarily. He had already found the right man in Gurdjieff. He has written about Gurdjieff, and what he says is beautiful, efficient, but his heart is dark, there is no light in it. Still, I count his book as one of the best. You can see that I am impartial.
Without Bennett, many people wouldn’t have known about Shivapuri Baba. And for that I am really thankful to him.
I cannot say about England, but here in Germany I have come across so many people who talk with love and reverence about Haidakhan Babaji. I think the community around Babaji is a new ‘in-thing’.
Some opinion or experience?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haidakhan_Babaji
I have a firm belief, if post-demise masters live they live through their disciples and devotees. Community getting developed around disciples is like leaves and branches, a living everyday testimony of the seed disappeared in the earth.
Osho concludes by saying, “You can see that I am impartial.”
To be ‘partial to’ or partial toward’ someone or something is to be somewhat biased or prejudiced, which means that a person who is partial really only sees part of the whole picture. To be impartial is the opposite.
Yet Osho would appear to be partial towards, say, Shivapuri and not very partial towards, say, Mohammed Subud. It is therefore that I fail to see how Osho could imagine himself to be impartial.
But you Lokesh, are, as always, anything but impartial in your appraisal of Osho, of Osho’s impartiality in this instance.
Ooops, I smell burning. My wee comment drew Arpana out of the bakery, his beloved Eccles cakes forgotten in his haste to be the Knight in shining armour, ever to the fore in the dear old battlefield of his dreams in his imaginary defence of Osho, a cause as misguided and delusional as that of Shantam fighting the dragons of Castle Resort.
Talking of which, Shantam now pretends that he understands what happened in Lucknow with H W L Poonja: “Lucknow the new Pune” – hardly. It really was not like that. A few sannyasins perhaps tried to create something vaguely along those lines but Mr Poonjaji was not in the least interested in gathering a crowd around him and thus any attempts to Poonaize him failed. I actually understood him to say, “Whenever you see a big crowd gathering around a spiritual teacher, beware.”
Shantam continues by saying, “Osho did not get the smell of Harivansh Lal ji; most probably our master would have been very ferocious to rip through the great seer from Lucknow.”
More uneducated bunkum from the dragonslayer. Nobody got the smell of Poonjaji because he did not hang around long enough anywhere for that to happen. He was a travelling man and everyone knows, boss, a rolling stone don’t gather any moss. Ill health forced Poonjaji to settle in Lucknow, a city that he felt he owed something too due to events in the past or something like that.
I believe after the partition of India in 1949 Lucknow offered Poonjaji and his family a home. As fate would have it, Poonjaji was on the last train out of Lahore. You could tell he was a Hindu a mile off. He sat in the Hindu section of the train until Ramana Maharshi came to him in a vision, telling him to move immediately into the Muslim section of the train. Poonja did as instructed and soon afterwards the train was stopped, Hindus were forced out of the train, lined up and shot to death
Who knows what Osho would have made of Poonjaji? I would not take any pride in saying “most probably our master would have been very ferocious to rip through the great seer from Lucknow.” Some people tear people down to build themselves up.
As for Poonjaji he really did not seem to know that much about Osho, only what he had been told. I think some sannyasins were bitter about Osho, or perhaps guilty and told Poonjaji some bad reports on Osho and a couple of times I heard Poonjaji say things about Osho that could have been interpreted as negative, but really he did not seem very interested to comment about Osho.
Unlike Shantam, Poonjaji tended to stick with subject matter he was familiar with: love, peace, meditation, humour, Advaita and cricket.
471 words to my 20. Lokesh, who ran away from Sannyas, is on the defensive, methinks.
You´re walking in your combat-response to Lokesh on a very slippery ground of bigotry and fanaticism, Arpana, sometimes also spiced with some Aleister Crowley magic thinking, in terms of the very shady sides of the latter.
A(nother) ‘perfect’ Englishman?
Admitted, the thread topic quote presented here makes it easy to go astray and lose one´s own ground, get lost in (another) ´guru ranking´, ´ betrayal´ of disciples etc.
We´ve had the topic of betrayal quite recently, haven´t we? A psychic minefield, where fellow-travellers degrade each other in projections instead of sharing and co-operation.
And what a drag is that!
Madhu
I’ve read this six times. I cannot understand what you are trying to say. Are you comparing me to Crowley? I have no followers.
You’re not seriously equating challenging Lokesh, the cowardly big-head, with the practice of black magic?
No, Arpana, that´s not it. Lokesh is walking on his own ground in his contributions, quite other than you. That´s refreshing here, if one likes it or not.
So you wilfully misunderstood what I said. Just misusing it for another punch….
Madhu
Ah yes, of course.
When I say what I have to say it is because I am immoral.
When you say what you have to say it is because you are pure and good and virtuous.
Arpana says, “When I say what I have to say it is because I am immoral.” I do not agree. When Arpana responds to my posts he does so because he sees it as a way of expressing his negativity.
I do not wish to enter into a tit-for-tat scenario with him because then I am playing the same negative game and, more importantly, it is very boring for other readers.
Going by the last couple of threads here on SN I would be surprised to hear that readership has not dropped drastically. That is a pity because I believe SN to be a good platform.
One of the big mistakes taking place on SN is commentators getting into repeat personal slagging as opposed to commenting on the thread or other points brought up due to the thread. That sort of shite puts people off. Some of our best writers have dropped out for the most part and that is a pity, because they had something to add on various levels that I personally enjoyed.
Let’s try collectively to stay on track and keep the threads creative. That way we can add something to life other than saying so and so is an asshole, which is ultimately a matter of opinion and a very uninspired one, to say the least.
MOD:
SN COLLECTIVE ECHOES THESE LAST TWO PARAGRAPHS.
@ Lokesh says:
4 December, 2016 at 6:01 pm
Stop sulking, for God’s sake.
No need to take everything so seriously. Some are just entertaining the thoughts without accepting them and some are just writing to practise their well learned English language.
Good advice, Kusum – I’m with you on that one.
If there was no provocation from me, Lokesh would not have written a nice prose dedicated to Punja Ji. In interaction where communication is only through words, someone has to play devil´s advocate to keep the flow alive.
One thing I have felt, Lokesh becomes child-like when writing about Punja ji, otherwise he is very analytical and down-to-earth. Is it not said time and again, when we love something, we become child-like?!
H. W. L. Poonja (Harivansh Lal Poonja; 13 October, 1910 in Gujranwala – 6 September, 1997 in Lucknow) was around 21 years senior to Osho.
It is really a wonder of life, post-Osho´s demise some sannyasins discover a new Enlightened Indian out of obscurity at the ripe age of 80-plus and in the remaining years of his life, Shri Papaji becomes an international wave and makes Lucknow the new Pune.
Yesterday, I was thinking, this too is a wonder of life, Osho did not get the smell of Harivansh Lal ji; most probably our master would have been very ferocious to rip through the great seer from Lucknow.
Who is enlightened and who is not has become such a game as if to discuss angels of Victoria Secret with beauties next door!
Thanks to Aquarius age, forces of nature have the work to wipe out aura of enlightenment as if it is a mascara in the eyes!
English Wiki on J.G. Bennett:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_G._Bennett
More extensive German Wiki:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_G._Bennett
He donated his country estate, Coombe Springs, to his new teacher:
Idries Shah, teaching a modern version of Sufism, “to be free of any attachments.”
Here`s a worthwhile read for anyone interested in the life of Idries Shah (includes an account of the connection between Shah and Bennett).
http://www.hermes-press.com/S_shah.htm
Thanks for this read. There is (always) some sales side in the daily business. Plus obstruction and distortion of historical facts. It seems.
Interesting also, as I have been practising now for around 7 years with a Chistia Sufi master, however including self-sacrifice transcendence, Mohammed Tradition Islam, Gnosis, God and and…and trying to discover some historical connections.
However, “everything is as it is, otherwise it would have been different”. Steps of the path as Steven K. Small has written in his memoirs ‘Mind the Gap’. We need to be true to ourselves – looking from the inside.
Klaus,
Excuse me for being a bit personal, but I`m curious.
As a 7-year Sufi, practising self-sacrificing self-transcendence, have you had to chop the end of your dick off?
Indeed no. I practised lots of Zikhr, like almost day and night, non-stop. And working in an office same time. Trying to be true to myself.
I met my teacher’s teacher who died two years ago in Bangladesh and Haider Baba of Dhaka, another Sufi saint (who was a director in Bank of Pakistan before committing himself to his practice full-time, died last year), sitting on the dirty roads of Dhaka and meditating free-style:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cj0hcj1tefE
Klaus, could you say what in your experience are the benefits of Zikhr? And how do these eastern teachers and ancient methods help you in your daily life in, presumably, Germany?
SD,
Zikhr can lead to seeing heaven, the non-self (Fana fila – google).
But: what goes up – must come down. I have family issues, father and son, but more from the heart in the meantime …That is why you ask about the daily life.
My teacher lives in Bangladesh and Germany, so I come to be with him and his family. These are very practical and down-to-earth people. In this way, I – finally – learn to be at ease in relationships. Before, I was a Vipassana monk – feeling and thinking I can only arrive in the solitude of meditation, monastery, alone…180° degrees turn…
The two dead guys (both around 100 years old) were both grounded in their worldly professions and family, in the market place – and connected to heaven.
I today placed a – somewhat lengthy – “thank you” to sannyasnews at Posters:
http://sannyasnews.org/now/now/members/
“Zikhr can lead to seeing heaven, the non-self (Fana fila – google).”
How about in your case, Klaus?
@ SD’s last comment:
In my case I am ‘like an elevator’:
Sometimes up – no-one.
Next: some ways down again…
Next: somewhere in-between….
This may relate…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEgNKa_QhOw
@Frank
Certainly.
Deep concentration states are addictive. But they also have the function to gather enough energy to go further.
Meditators look forward to repeating them.
One more thing to let go:
These are the insights into
- dukkha (Pain, not be able to keep these nice feelings)
- anicca (Impermanence, these things come and go on their own)
- anatta (No-self in these phenomena).
Perhaps this is one of the reasons why Bhagwan reminds people “who have not reached the end” by some very clear (harsh) words:
On Bennett:
“Although Bennett was a fool…But he will not understand what he has written.”
Back on topic.
Found this:
‘Brains of Buddhist monks scanned in meditation study.’
“Dr Josipovic, who also moonlights as a Buddhist monk, says he is hoping to find how some meditators achieve a state of ‘nonduality’ or ‘oneness’ with the world, a unifying consciousness between a person and their environment.”
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-12661646
I do think that there is a similarity between addiction and spiritual efforts.
A (sannyasin) guy I know was a multi-addict, who has been a long-term meditator also. He was on/off all sorts and a lot of drugs/meditation for years. It had become a chronic problem.
So he visited a counsellor and explained that this is what he had been doing all his adult life, trying to
maintain bliss states, variously and continuously, through meditation practices, drugs, ‘therapy’, sex and all.
The counsellor asked him: “What was it you were trying to get away from?”
“I wasn’t trying to get away, I was more trying to get TO a better, higher space”, he answered.
The counsellor was unconvinced and told my friend so.
At first, my friend couldn’t accept it, but then he got it. By trying to get somewhere either through drugs or meditation, he had been affirming, even creating his unfulfilled state. The problem he had was his attempt at the solution. Something seemed to click for him… He never took any more drugs from that moment.
I don’t know if he is ‘enlightened’, I don`t think he`s really interested in it anymore. But he is no longer an asshole going on about his trip, which is what he was like, but he is clear-sighted, friendly, soulful and has a good sense of humour.
I call him ‘the accidental advaitist’.
frank says:
4 December, 2016 at 6:12 pm
That strikes a chord.
I in part persisted with painting in the early stages or during the learning to draw stage, as initially I was crap, to get from somewhere I judged I shouldn’t be. (Sannyas and meditating was for a long time about putting something I saw to be wrong, right; although success did happen, but not as I expected).
Frank, about his friend, was he trying to get away from the present moment? Just my curiosity! Cheers!
Tan,
Doing substances is a way of exercising control over present moments that one deems necesary to control or change in some way.
The question is: how applicable is this to spiritual practices?
Having made some of my own enquiries, I get the definite feeling that the answer is: much more applicable than most ‘spiritual’ people feel comfortable with.
Thanks, Frank boy! X
Even the Beatles were counsellors for effortless Advaita:
“…speaking words of wisdom
- Let IT be, let IT be.”
Book List – in German and Swiss editions:
http://www.chalice.ch/John-G-Bennett
He wrote a lot on transformation, transforming our conditioning, personal meditation and consciousness experiences, hearing the voice of God – Christian and Islamic – and and…
Interesting.
Even as a friend, hanging out with him on a friday night at the worst of Caracas bars, his words emerging with rum or nitrous oxide fragrance, the attention (at least mine) goes to the relaxed and playful way to describe the reality that is flowing in front of him.
The ongoing chemical experience (if this is the ‘lysergic’ case) makes him state his impartiality: “I see a donkey fly from one guru to another and I don’t care if some other donkey later will look upwards, I remain impartial, i.e. honest, i.e. without secrets.”
The evolution of the disciple in order not to become a non-flying donkey seems to be to love him as a friend.
Ciao,
VF
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxG5vqUOjdA
So true: I also find the way Osho describes the details of the life of Mr. Bennett wonderful. Even though he sees him as un-enlightened. But rates his book as worthwhile – even as one of the best.
I think Osho was quite clear we are all enlightened, we just need to realise it…That waking up to enlightenment is like waking up to a dazzling light of a hundred thousand suns, but this too fades and ripples with natural events in my experience. I think followers are also clearly out of touch.
Osho, like me, was about caring. Drop materialism for a little while to realise sharing is caring. It worked for me. Whatever the perspective I share, consciousness, compassion, unpredictability are universal yardsticks for attainment, which you might recall from ‘Psychology of the Esoteric’.
Did Osho think Mahatma was necessary as a title or, as the saying goes in Wing Chun Kung Fu, “he with the skill is senior”? Seniority, titles, are meaningless and should be dropped. People are promoted quickly in wartime.
I am lending some support here for Sam and Shantam, after a mediocre reception at Pune, and to read some good jokes. Heard today Osho in his words was a fundamentalist Christian. Quite different use of those words in today’s vernacular.
Btw, the whole idea of a “perfect Englishman” is ludicrously dated. What on earth did it ever mean anyway? A jolly good fellow, a good egg who opens doors for “ladies” and says “sorry” when you step on his foot? Gimme a break. A gentleman? That`s gentil-homme, so he would be French anyway.
Also, a lot of people are taking DNA tests these days which show what part of the world your ancestors came from. It turns out that your average “Englishman”, whether he is a supporter of multi-culturalism or a member of the EDF (extreme right) only has average 37% British genetic background. And that is just the “White British”, not including the millions of black, brown, yellow and other British.
Get real, bro, the “perfect Englishman” is well antwacky, innit?
Indeed so, Frank, the “perfect Englishman” is just Victorian imperialist public school hogwash. Innit, bro, eh? See ya la’er, yeh?
Reading the story of John Godolphin Bennett and his bizarre dealings with Idries Shah, I wonder whether he may have once participated in one of these events:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5ba1OKY7Xc
The sidekick of English Gentlemen would be English Ladies. Osho never had much good to say about them either, especially as sexual partners.
He should know!
Yeah, Frank, that is perfectly correct.
“Putting a Buddha, or Gurdjieff, or Jesus or Bodhidharma in a refugee camp”, says Osho, expressing surprise and disbelief at how “humanity can fall so low.”
Yes, this kind of thing shows a very dark side to human behaviour, but might it not also be considered a necessary rite of passage for someone engaged in professing to lead others in the search for high moral and spiritual ground?
Would any serious notice have been given to any of the illustrious figures Osho mentions if they had not gone through some kind of extreme suffering?
I doubt it – take the ‘riches to rags’ element out of the Buddha story, for example, and you are left with a kind of ‘career’ spiritual teacher, if you like, on a par with ‘career’ politicians – about as appealing as Ozen Rajneesh, as far as I am concerned.
I think most people are inclined to afford more respect and credibility to those who have ‘really been through it’, rather than those who haven’t, and in this sense, Osho himself, falls short.
P.S:
@Arpana
Madhu’s pontificating ‘Mother Superior’ act on SN, clearly demonstrates her own negativity and arrogance imho, and provides her with an acceptable ‘guise’ to flaunt her own ‘troll-like’ qualities. Deep down, I believe, she would like to be as openly ‘down and dirty’ like some others here, but lacks the honesty and courage to do so!
Yes. Well spotted.
Madhu is jealous of something I have she can’t let herself have. I’m in touch with my inner angel/devil, rather than stuck with fake angel.
@Ashok
Dear friend(s),
I had some problems with ‘google translate’ when I put your comments in it. So the following are the things not clear to me:
“Serious Notice” should mean warning or forewarning, thus something to give before and not after an event. It seems to me that the event which Osho is talking about is the persecution of people who flourished in their humanity, while it seems to me that you are referring to the harrowing experiences that may precede the ‘illuminating’ event.
Where Osho talks about the persecution of ‘enlightened people’ I do not see how it could be that “notice” I guess you mean.
Also, considering that Osho calls such people “illustrious figures” when he was ‘fishing widely’ at all levels of the spiritual seas, in fact soon – and not only Jesus – they will be ‘treated differently’, but not here, not yet.
Here Osho uses the report of the persecution of Gurdjieff to speak about how non-meditative societies react against the Rebellious Spirit that surrounds this blessed humanity.
I could agree with you that, seen from the outside, the childhood of Aurobindo or Krishnamurti looks heartbreaking, much more than the bucolic one of little Rajha, or…I could ask if what makes the difference for me between ‘my suffering’ and another’s ‘suffering’ works also for a more sensitive soul than mine.
Therefore, at least, we could say that the poisoning of Osho has added nothing to his and our humanity.
Of course, this type of “serious notice” cannot destroy anything which is created…then one needs just to remain open to a different form of ‘humanity’; perhaps all could be about stones, radiating sublime ultra-violet frequencies, only in some astronomical conditions.
Yes, the stones are part of our destiny, also for those who are witnesses of “how beautiful a man can be”, for those who, looking in His eyes, have touched “the empty space between the stars”…however part of history and its ruins.
Big hug,
VF
http://lyricstranslate.com/it/la-storia-history.html
Ashok concludes, “about as appealing as Ozen Rajneesh, as far as I am concerned.”
Yes, I can relate to that. There is something unappealing about Swami Rajneesh. That said, you have to give it to the man that he is helping create a very creative scene down in Mexico.
Saw a recent promo video and had to admit that it looked very good at Rajneesho commune. Lots of gung-ho people putting their energy into what appears to be a worthwhile project and very much in tune with core sannyas values.
On that level I salute Swami Rajneesh, take my hat off to him and say keep up the good work, you are doing a marvellous job. Bravo.
Perfectly correct, Lokesh. I agree with every word you have pronounced about Brian Rajneesh.
If someone has the destiny to be a leader, spiritual or worldly, there will be many people who will realise their destiny as followers.
In my opinion, we the bloggers at sannyasnews have the destiny to be spiritually unemployed!
Everything and everybody has their time.
Try setting aside the cosiness of “we” and speak for only yourself, Shantam. Your fate is your own, no need to gratuitously drag others here into it.
I have said what is there to say about collective mind prevailing at sannyasnews. “Spiritually unemployed” is not a contempt.
You have both surprised and vexed me, Lokesh! P’haps I have been doing our Brian a disservice – given what you have said, it would appear he has some merit. ‘Never judge a book by its cover!’, as they say, and I along with others may have fallen into that rather condescending and judgemental trap concerning him.
Funnily enough, now that you talk about him in a positive light, I recall that it was brought to my attention recently that he has been allowing all and sundry to download for free (from one of his several websites) standard Osho meditations, like Kundalini and Dynamic, for example. This endeavour is undoubtedly a ‘worthwhile project’, in my view, and very much in accordance with “core sannyas values”, as you put it.
I am therefore very much inclined to take on board what you have said about him. Overall, he seems to fit the bill as a true ‘rebel’ against established authority’!
Could be I find myself on a plane to Mexico shortly!
Ashok says, “Could be I find myself on a plane to Mexico shortly!”
Perhaps check out Ibiza on the way. Here is why. There are many really great older sannyasins living on the island and winter is the time to meet them. Couple of days back, five of us were sitting together in the late afternoon sunlight. 325 years between us. We just sat around laughing and chatting for a few hours. Absolutely brilliant. High times. Honoured to call such people my friends.
One of the local sannyasin Ibiza crowd, Bharam, the santoor player, was just invited down to Ozen Mexico for a month. Great an artist like Bharam gets supported like that and if the Swan band are going down there with the old fox it will be fireworks.
They play a unique blend of ethno-tech-trance that goes down a bomb wherever they go. High power cosmic dance music, so I imagine the festive season down in Mexico will be a blast. Playing solo, Bharam delivers some very cool meditative vibes. Wonderful human being. The real deal.
Sounds interesting, Lokesh! I think I hear the sirens’ voices, or is it the pipes?
Naw…it’s the bells…the bells….
A good photo can say more than a thousand words. Looks like Bharam is getting aquainted with the locals down in the Yucatan.
About Brian Zapata Rasputin…
I would not recommend going anywhere near him or those around him or others of the same ilk…because the level of credulity saps at the solar plexus and other places, like a dose of gut rot.
In cases such as this of delusional mania, in which giving life meaning becomes a fun park for the snakey, slithery, sucky types one must be reminded not only of dancing and singing but of tangos – Last Tangos in Paris to be precise, where one is surreptitiously inveigled into a simulated act involving butter and the anus…and lives to regret it.
The actual test of knowing whether one is with a person who is buttering you up for his own, ermmm, end, is the time and tested Osho spiritual fuck phrases directed at least within two feet of chosen tangoist: “Shut the fuck up” and “If you don’t shut up I’m going to knock your fucking head off ”
NOTE:
Fao CaptainScarletproductions@La communidad de Thunderbirdistas Rojo:
The above is simply a poetic rendition of a symbolic situation and does not represent anyone either living or dead and is intended merely as a visualisation technique for advanced meditators.
Martyn, that was all a bit over my head, but if it’s good enough for Thunderbirdistas it’s good enough for me.
The idea of going to Mexico to visit Ozen and pals is number 657667854376 in my list of to do. Thing is, there are new generations coming up and they have to do daft things like I once did. Do you know, I once let an Indian guru change my Christian names and followed his advice to the extent that I ran about in an orange dress for years?
My old acid-dropping pals back home thought I’d finally lost the plot, but I did not care because the girls loved it. We have to remain open.
Hiya Lokesh,
Thanks for the reply.
If an environment does not promote its own truth telling as both internal, external and intentional it might be an experience, but more preisely a set of obligations. All cults have these.
I was doing Dynamic in Nisarga a few months back. There was a whole bunch of newbies to the game, including the standard wannabe Chinese, the gormless Indians etc. One morning, I’d really had enough of this spiritual masochism so in catharsis I shouted as loud as I could, “Osho, you are a fucking CUNT” etc. etc.
Swami Chetan (who was leading the morning session with all that hokum and sannyas promoting lather about being total etc.) and I exchanged a few good knowing giggles at the end of. The Chinese girl looked awkward, because she was.
I spent time later this autumn doing some Sufi stuff with another person (who shall remain nameless because of legal issues) who has all the approachability of a venus fly trap and the interpersonal skills of a vacuum cleaner primed with a 1950s nuclear battlefield device.
Two people left the group in such a tornado of ‘in your face truth telling’ that was inspirational. Much more fun than ten or a hundred days of whirling and bollox chanting.
The world of spirituality is and always was sick – and as such it is more of a hospital with people on the mend, hopefully. Outside it’s even worse or maybe just different.
Actually, in terms of world, it’s Osho who seemed to perform what just a few people do in our individual lives and who form our world: the tone, the grace, the charm, the evanescence…rare indeed, all qualities of beauty in action.
And such qualities make people jealous. Zapata is one of those. And calling out “Zapata is a CUNT” in his Mexican dynamics is not a technique I’ve heard of…But please write in, I’m willing to be corrected.
Osho energy is there when sick, when close to death, when making love, when delighting…and needs no intermediary or translators – and certainly not people who have a third eye bunged up with Mexican bath sealant.
x
This post shows Prem Martyn too is one of the “spiritual unemployed”. He is a consumer of services from unorganized sector but feels uncomfortable and skeptical if someone creates his own brand.
“the approachability of a venus fly trap and the interpersonal skills of a vacuum cleaner primed with a 1950s nuclear battlefield device.”
Great stuff!
A Touching Letter of Thanks & Gratitude from a Sannyasin Floozie to Her Beloved Knight in Shoitin’ Armour – Sir Prem Martyn
Dear Your Majesty PM,
You’re a real English gent you are, for sayin’ wot you did! Ta, luv. A newbie girl on the block needs all the help she can get before throwin’ ‘erself into the arms of someone like Brian. I very nearly believed Lokesh, I did! Shame on ‘im for tryin’ to take advantage of an innocent like me!
Anyways, I woz finking to meself like, wot if I go down there to Mexico, ‘n’ that Brian tries to take me from behind in a Dynamic meditation, when I’ve got me eyes closed? Sent a shiver up me spine, it did! I could just see meself screamin’ sumthin’ out loud, like you did e.g: “You’ll ‘ave to stick it up a dog’s arse first, Brian, before I’ll ever let you stick it up mine!”
(Hopin’ he wouldn’t take me seriously, of course! I mean, let’s face it, girls often say things they don’t really mean, don’t they? Like when I say sum fings to sum of them naughty boys on SN, just to see wot they cum back with!).
Don’t suppose I’d be very popular shoutin’ out sumthin’ like that, tho’…reminds me of that time in Pachamama, when I gave Brian’s cousin, Tyohar, a piece of my mind when ‘e tried to stick one up me jacksie – ‘e threw me out! That’s gratitude for you, innit? I woz only tellin’ the truth! Like you say, Sir PM, geezers like ‘im don’t wanna ‘ear da truth, do they?
Calls himself enlightened, he does – more like a fart in a phone-box if you arsk me!
‘N’ anuvva thing! Lokesh, darlin’, if you’re readin’ this by any chance, you’re gonna ‘ave to clean your act up if you think a decent girl like me iz gonna visit you in Ibiza. I won’t ever again believe nothing you say, I won’t, unless you promise to borro’ Shanty’s ‘pants, Sunshine!
Luv from Your Loyal Subject,
Ma Prem Flo ( Legal Name: Wandering Floozie from Clapton)
So, Ashok, you made it to CR to visit Tyohar. I lived next door for a couple of months but never made it to the enlightened one’s holy abode. My wife popped in one afternoon and found it very together and a nice scene for young seekers.
I’ve met Tyohar a couple of times. I just wonder how a football hooligan like him could work himself into a guru role and anyone could take him in the least bit seriously. Once again, you have to give it to him for making his wee commune.
I do not keep tabs on Tyohar but last I heard he was off the guru trip and into selling high-end real estate. Sign of the times.
Yes, Lokesh, I did indeed make it to Tyohar’s place and lasted about 6 weeks in total before he left me with no choice but to leave. I wrote about this experience here on SN, close to when it happened if I remember rightly.
I only went to one of his satsangs and did not go again, given that he is a rather dull , uninspiring and very limited individual -just another dope-head really (they’re big on taking stuff like Ayahuasca there, and pressurize all newcomers to join in, taking a very dim view if you don’t – probably because they make quite a bit of dosh out of it, a hundred bucks by the night , I think it was).
Your description of him as football hooligan just about fits the bill too, I reckon, and honestly, would you want a sit thru a satsang given by your average British football hooligan?
I always remember that before going to the satsang mentioned, the management insisted that all the newcomers, like me, go to an orientation meeting first. In this meeting the key phrase ‘Leave your mind outside the entrance to the meditation hall!’ was mentioned several times. This pretty much told me all I needed to know, as like many cults, and Pachamama is definitely one, you need to be a mindless idiot to comply with what the local guru asks of you i.e. frequently listening to him spout a load of dope-head nonsense while he demands your unquestioning belief, obedience and groveling adulation at the same time.
Yeh – real estate is his thing now, or at least it was when I was there, selling plots of land on the Pachamama site primarily to Israelis not wishing to be based in Israel anymore, so it seems – can’t blame them, can you? What with all the trouble going on in that country who in their right mind would want to stay there if they had the choice to go somewhere less conflictive. So in that sense he has provided a welcome place of refuge to some of his peace-loving compatriots. This is the only good thing I have to say about his efforts, to be honest.
The experience of living at Pachamama, represents the only occasion upon which I have had the pleasure of sharing some of my time with someone purporting to be a self-realized, living master – don’t think I’ll be bothering to go down the same road again!
Thanks, Ashok, for your post!
I feel it is honest and unpretentious. All the best!
Yes, Tan, it is indeed, I believe, an honest account of some of my experiences at Pachamama, inasmuch as I saw them.
I don’t feel quite so sure about the “unpretentious” aspect though, but nevertheless, I will accept the gracious sentiment of your compliment! ‘Never look a gift-horse in the mouth’, as they say!
Ashok , Parmartha thinks the world of the estate agent in CR.. and you know that you might ‘miss’ if you have a limited sannyasnewsview.
Trouble is the world is infested with this muck.
People are not the easiest mammal to relate to, so its great when we can report back with uplifting experience. However ,despite a year of travails and travels I heard of nothing in Europe or India that resembles emotively intelligent lively community. I’ve looked outside the sannyas field too… but its the same . It seems that one can’t look for it, but has to take it with, as one goes.
Which leaves me to suggest you might care to visit Afroz centre on Lesvos. I lived next door to it for 4 years, made some good companionships and happily ,scarcely ever visited the centre, because it was run by an idiot, (with a coterie of visiting ugly pushy primadonna therapists who all needed a good slap..) who passed away a few years back.
We , my partner and I preferred our own lives and occasional visitors and the fifteen cats and our own abandoned laughter. And the silence and the empty winters, springs and autumns …with the beach and the arab hot springs far away in a hidden hill all to ourselves. Utterly selfish really.
Of course since then it became Syria’s dumping ground for a few years. On a relative scale then, shit spiritual communities are not the worst thing.
Anyway to complete the brief review..
Nisarga is deadly boring. It is a bungalow centre set in lovely views with nothing happening that resembles life affirming activity. Its all white and red spiritual hokum. I knew that before I went, but I wanted to tie up a few loose ends without going to KPark.
There really is nowhere to run and unfortunately no-one to create the playground nut house that was Pune.
Having said that there are volunteer opportunities to investigate around the globe just for the feeling of combined fraternization .. Angsbacka in Sweden happens every year for a few months.. and is influenced by Osho.(apparently )
And although the Humaniversity will now be a very different place, I would hope that it does the massive emotive indulgence in all the best Osho ways possible over long extended periods.. for those who want their searching served seriously.
Leela is however an English vicarage non-starter.The English never ever have understood interpersonal evocative lyricism..generally disadvantaged as being a mediocre, humble-looking race…and made worse by the constant effusion of ‘ sorry ‘ and ‘just wondering if ‘ ‘thanks dear’ .So I’m with Lokesh on that one. The English tend to sparkle only if you can plug the thing in at Xmas.
On the subject of Israelis I met an Austrian sannyas girl who thinks the world of the scene out there in palestine, erm, Israel .. being both vibrant, provocative, sexy and a ‘fuck you’ to the mainstream.. so it creates real earnestness in their partying and grouping.. Would I go ?…naww I’m not that butch and never was… I’m also part fucking English.
Cheers mate. Blimey. Luvvly Jubbly… ( bollox
@Prem Martyn
Many thanks for sharing your experience/knowledge of various places in the sannyasin world. Turns out I have been to some of them already, so here are a few of my impressions, for what they’re worth:
Angsbacka, Sweden – on and off I spent 4 years there altogether. Yes, it was started up by Osho sannyasins, of whom a few are still around, and therefore it still retains some of the original flavour. A fun time to be there
is from June to August, like you say, when various festivals such as No Mind, Yoga and Tantra take place, and attract large nos. and some wackiness/playfulness. But as they now aim to become Sweden’s version of Findhorn, it has become unexciting and conventional most of the time.
Additionally, since 2015 and outside the summer season, they took on housing about 100 Syrian refugees in an attempt to boost their finances! Understandably, some of the old long-term residents left as things got a bit crowded and incongruent.
Osho Leela, UK – functions basically as an off-shoot of the Humaniversity, and consequently is obsessive about
practising cathartic methods 90% of the time. Needs additional softer stuff and approaches to balance things out imo. There is a tense underlying vibe there also, as the ‘Big Brother’ management closely monitors the many residents who are recovering, substance-abusers.
Humaniversity, Holland – ditto Osho Leela, but even more control-freaky, bullying and ‘cultish’. I was there approx. 8 yrs ago on the 2-week Tourist Program, and I haven’t been back, so I couldn’t say what it is like these days, but I would imagine it’s probably similar given the heavy hand Veeresh exerted when he was alive.
Good on the liberal sex/tantric stuff I suppose, if you are able to put up with the shoite already mentioned – I wasn’t!
Interestingly, this summer just gone, I found my way to a community called Zegg, in Germany, for the first time, which like Angsbacka was also originally set up by a group of mainly Osho sannyasins, but has moved in a different direction. They practise ‘open-relationships’, but unfortunately only open their doors to non-German speakers in the summer. Whilst there I met an old-time English sannyasin of ‘Ranch’ persuasion called Ataraj (legal name – Brian!), who is very much into permaculture and everything ‘green’. He told me that he knew a few of the old-timers round these parts e.g. Parmartha, Lokesh and so on!
A small world, isn’t it? I often bump into sannyasins wherever I go, and only just last week I met another old ‘Rancher’ called Bettina Goring (grand-niece of the infamous Hermann), whom some of you present may have met also. Interesting to talk to her and her boyfriend (also at the ‘Ranch’ for the duration), about Osho, and how they like many others, would take often take a lot of the things the ‘old boy’ said, with a large pinch of salt!
Cheers and a big hug,
Ashok
P.S:
Marty – I can’t for the life of me decipher the first sentence in your post. Care to fill me in, guv’nor?
Thanks Ashok, really interesting to read.
Ahh, Atiraj, yep…Lived with him for a year or more in London…Lovely guy…very reliable and generous. An ‘old salt’ as I remember, and great fun.
I have never done the Germany number…never travelled there etc., but my partner has good friends there and we could go awandering…next year…amazing what happens in little pockets.
As for the first sentence it just means that there might be a lurking opinion about how marvellous the loony in CR is, from another SN contributor.
I met followers of the loony in Mallorca recently and the one thing you have to do is tread respectfully around their lifetime’s commitment, with lots of head nodding and words of wisdom…and “right, yeahhhh, mmmmm.”
Estas completely Imposibiles !!!!
Love and all the best.
Hi PM,
Really enjoyed reading you, as always!
After all you said, I wonder if it’s just a lack of Osho anywhere. XX
Welcome, Tan. Cheers for the up…Look after yerself too. And if you find anywhere of note, let us know. xx
Great post, Martyn, really informative and enjoyable read.
Looking for a glimpse of Utopia? Try Ibiza’s San Juan market on a sunny Sunday afternoon during the winter. If there is a good band playing it is like Haight Ashbury circa 1969 and always good for a laugh and people dance in the village square. Lots of old sannyasins hidden in the undergrowth and the vibes are super positivo, hombre.
Looks great, Lokesh…thoughI won’t be travellin’ again until the spring. It’s homey wintertime in Wales for us now.
Have a great one….
Israelis not wishing to be based in Israel anymore, so it seems – can’t blame them, can you?
No, I can’t. Many Israelis on Ibiza also, mostly very good, peace-loving people.
If I see young persons reading modern spiritual literature, my first question will be, “Do you have some professional education to earn your livelihood or some inheritance to rely upon?”
If erotic literature has the age limit, spiritual literature must be having even higher age limit. Without this, youthful energy can get sucked by the ‘machinery and mechanics’ around the great spiritual books.
Totally agree with you, Shantam. Education is the most important, then meditation. As a human being we cannot meditate with empty stomach.
Also, the rational thinking is also needed otherwise it is easy to get lost in the jungle of so-called spirituality when one is at vulnerable young age.
If the world weren’t saturated with all-pervading ignorance about spirituality, ie about what the hell life is all about, then such a question wouldn’t need to arise, it would simply be irrelevant.
However, I don’t think young people are as gullible as he makes out. It seems here Shantam is creating a largely non-existent problem, one that, as Lokesh states, says more about him than about anyone else, he himself being an obvious example of a man who rejected his education, forsaking his unfinished legal training for the sake of an alternative, er, ‘career’ in Sannyas (or, at least, in Pune) and who, as a result, in middle age, finds himself high and dry, struggling to make ends meet, 6,000 miles from his homeland.
Money is nothing without creativity. Only can give comforts, that’s all. That’s why even rich people work to be creative & to interact with people.
Shantam postulates, “If erotic literature has the age limit, spiritual literature must be having even higher age limit. Without this, youthful energy can get sucked by the ‘machinery and mechanics’ around the great spiritual books.”
This does not sound right at all. It could just as easily be said that young people can be greatly inspired by reading great spiritual books, which is far more likely than being sucked by the mechanics of spiritual books, whatever the fuck that is supposed to mean. (Shantam, perhaps an explanation is in order).
Shantam conjures up images of kids being caught in the toilets, reading ‘Autobigraphy of a Yogi’, and being expelled for handling inappropriate literature.
Shantam opens by saying, “If I see young persons reading modern spiritual literature, my first question will be, “Do you have some professional education to earn your livelihood or some inheritance to rely upon?”
That the first question that arises in Shantam’s mind upon seeing a young person reading spiritual literature should be this says far more about Shantam than anyone else. It is ridiculous. Just imagine him doing this upon seeing a teenager reading the ‘Book of Secrets’, Part One. The teenager would look at him as if he were nuts or an incarnation of Sri Nosey Parker Maharaj Guruwankerji.
Mind can be easily programmed at young age. That’s how most children are programmed by their families. Books, films or even words spoken by adults can manipulate tender vulnerable mind. And emotional vulnerability also plays part. And yes…mind directs one’s life. Reading one book can change one’s whole life.
“Machinery and mechanics” around the great spiritual books…It is another name coined for ‘cult and priests’.
Is Sannyas not a cult? Are the therapists dealing with Reiki, Past Life, Aura Soma, death and love not priests?
Does it cost much to be honest and judge oneself with the same yardstick as for others?
Shantam, I have no idea what you are talking about.
Perfectly correct, Shantambhai and Kusum!
Spiritual books are certainly very dangerous! Young men are reading books like ‘Autobiography of an Onanist’ and then retiring to school toilets and trying to imitate great yogis and thrashing their vital organs and “machinery” into oblivion, rendering their ganglions permanently and spiritually unemployed!
It is tragic!
Also,one vulnerable and tender child,after reading ‘Guru Granth Sahib’ was found hanging in toilet wearing only underwear and turban and with Kirpan stuck up his ass after some bizarre religious role-play games with his friend went badly wrong!
Extremely dog-eared and heavily stained copies of ‘Book of Secrets’ and copies of the Upanishads with lots of pages mysteriously stuck together are changing hands behind bicycle sheds as we speak!
The tide of spiritual literature that has, as Shantambhai has himself confessed, left him in raptures of self-induced bliss, must be stemmed!
Otherwise we run the risk of whole generation like Shantambhai, who after being seduced into the infamous Osho cult by sight of picture of secretary`s perky breasts in Sunday supplement of ‘India Today’, have spent life permanently unemployed and ejaculating wildly because of continued reading and obsession with “spiritual books”!
Yahoo!
Hari Om!
Right on the rupees, Yogi.
All the religions are existing now because of the their own holy books: Christianity is based on Bible, Hinduism is based on Geeta,etc.etc. Without holy books future generation have no preconceived beliefs of any religion.
And yes, we all as human beings need some sort of hope & faith. Even it is illusion.
And as the time changes, human being has different needs.
Perfectly correct, Kusum!
Without holy books and religion to inspire…future generations may commit mass murder, subjugate women, chop the end of their own dicks off etc., just for fun!
It is unthinkable!
As you say, much better to do all this for a good illusion such as religion!
Yahoo!
Hari Om!
Humanity needs correction!
Those great souls who know about occult matters like the secret activties of the nine unkown men of Ashoka are perfectly aware that the perky breasts of the secretary were a device,deliberately placed in full view ofthe unconscious masses for a reason!
Do you think that the master does anything without a reason?
Ha! The ignorance of western baboons whose minds are nothing but mind!
It was to ensure the certainty that his glorious religion would last for a thousand yugas!
Osho realised that Shantambhai was the man for the job-so set about to find the way to tempt him to become CEO for future enLIDLment of humanity!
In Holy Bible ,Eve used apple to tempt but in Rajneesh bible,Sheela tempted with a nice pair!
Shantam bit the master`s bait and immediately rubbed holy oil into the lingam of mighty Bhorat in time honoured fashion!
He has tossed and turned his way through the dark night of the soul in the flight from the alone to the alone ever since!
Again and again the serpent power of Kundalini has burst forth from his chuddies and his tireless ejaculations are clearly ushering in a new yuga of superconsciousness!
Yahoo!
Hari Om!
Be a jerk unto yourself!
Yogi!!!!
Be a jerk unto yourself! That is really great!
Buddha missed that one!
First laughter of the day! This is real blessing, my love! Many thanks! X XX
enLIDLment!…Yogi’s on a roll.
P.S:
Also, spiritual thoughts are like love & drugs. It can change brain chemistry & give feel-good hormones. But also it can create addiction.
Kusum, what is the source of all these profound insights that you are sharing on SN?
If this post is given the space, in the next I will post the perky breast of Sheela during those golden days when New Man, New Humanity was getting pangs of birth.
Osho is not just any other Indian religious masters, He is social scientist and reformer first-class. How I can stop adoring the master who introduced Naturism in religious compounds of 20th Century? In the past too, few rebels have understood the psychological and spiritual health benefits of social nudity.
Brave New world needs such unisex ashrams full with Naga Sadhus and Sadhvis. This is one reason among few others why I am in Germany!
Christ, Shantam, I can ‘barely’ think of any ongoing living or work situation worse than a nudist set-up. Especially having to view older folks like you, for instance.
Ugggghhh, pass the smelling salts, someone!
And P.S:
Since when was any Osho commune ‘naturist’? It’s that old hyped-up imagination of yours working overtime again.
Gosh, but you’re so British, SD.
Not really, Arps, it’s down to having Virgo Rising – you know, fine discrimination etc.
Seriously though, would you really want to live full-time or even just work in a clothes-less environment? Give it a bit of thought….
Apparently a ‘naked cafe’ has opened in London. (I know, I know, I have to stop reading the bloody Guardian) and my first thought was:
“Christ, you can’t be fcuking serious.”
What about London`s ‘Fellatio Cafe’? Is that open yet?
An expresso is £50, I hear.
I hear they are keeping it legal by using sex-robots.
It`s life Jim, but not as we know it!
Shantam’s moving to London. This is on you, Frank.
Virgo Rising is a good point for me to keep in mind when discussing with SD. If he knows, Shantam has Leo Rising with moon too in Leo, it won´t be surprise for him.
We are the way we are, including masters and slaves, saints and sinners.
Ah yes, Shantam the attention-seeker, never happier than when the ‘main attraction’…
Well, I have Moon, Mars, Saturn and, of course, like all my generation, Pluto in Leo…So I suggest you bear all that in mind as well, “when discussing” (ie actually engaging in dialogue in response to about 2% of my posts).
Yes, isn’t he, just! A little bird tells me SD is a distant relative of Mary Whitehouse, would you believe?
You confuse prudery with aesthetics – rather a-shok-ing error, sir.*
Moreover, everything has its time and place, including nudity, which, for me, mainly belongs in the bedroom and bathroom. Like food, enough is enough….
*(Please re-read my original comment).
Re Satyadeva says:
8 December, 2016 at 4:54 pm
Were you comfortable getting your kit off doing groups?
Not a problem, Arps, although that didn’t feature much.
Shantam,
You are in the wrong cult. Here`s one for you:
A journalist once shouted “The Raëlians are great material: They’re sexy, good-looking nudists, and they worship space aliens!”
If that doesn’t get your attention, you’re probably dead.
So who are the Raëlians? Most people have heard of them but few know much about them beyond some vague reference to space aliens or cloning. The Raëlians were founded in 1973 by a young French street musician, race car driver, and automative journalist named Claude Vorilhon.
Raëlians also embrace free love and nudity. They consider love to be the answer to virtually all of the world’s problems. It’s been reported that at some Raëlian conferences, attendees wear coloured wristbands indicating what gender or genders they’d like to have sex with tonight.
Nudity is the de facto uniform at many Raëlian retreats. I have heard from more than one source that sexual tourists to Asia are catching onto the Raëlian movement. Show up in Japan or Korea, find a local Raëlian chapter and pretend to be a fellow Raëlian, and you get
all the sex you want; plus it’s free and much cleaner and safer than what you get from the back alley brothels.
There are affiliated Raëlian organizations dedicated to free love: Raël’s Girls, for example, is comprised exclusively of atheist female adult film stars dedicated to Raël. Their website says, “Raël’s Girls want to share the understanding that you can be spiritual, you can be happy, without the guilt of God and religion.”
Just tell `em you`re you`re in close contact with Uranus and this could be you next year:
Shantam enquires, “How I can stop adoring the master who introduced Naturism in religious compounds of 20th Century?”
That is just so fucking absurd, I had to laugh.
Here is one for the memory lane….
Shantam, there are chuddies that can fix this.
“A literal cold shower, patented in 1893. It required the donning of waterproof pants, and then the organ was placed between two levers, so that should stiffening occur, the levers were spread which caused a flow of cold water to hit the hot spot. According to the designer : “The cold water…cools the organ of generation, so that the erection subsides and no discharge occurs.”
Now Shantam knows what he wants for Christmas.
You must be talking about yourself, I guess.
Kusum, what is your nationality?
How old are you?
Are you Osho disciple from the time he was Bhagwan or from the time Soviet Union melted like the vision of New Man?
“The New Man” is you or nobody, Shantam.
I suggest you read a brilliantly helpful little manual, ‘New Man in Old Shoes: Stop Complaining and Start Living’, by Alfred E. Newman, a descendant of the well-known western sage of similar name (see link below).
https://youtu.be/J9LSGwpb8eM
Oh oh, run lads! Chief Inspector Shantam is launching a new major investigation.
To be fair, Shantam should be acknowledged for his superhuman efforts in siphoning the python of Kundalini single-handedly without any help from other members of the sangha for all these years.
Best I could come up with.
Avoid coming up with anything…Save the ambrosia for later!
http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p703/11sLament/702253a5328dc9fedeb772710b67cee5_zpsyty4ycyh.jpg
It’s a…
Special Xmas gift for Shanta Clueless from all the crew at S&N, including a free year’s subscription to The Furry Muffeteer, Finger-Licking Tasty Bits and Sauce Dipper, The DIY Calendar and Personal Events Onaniser, The Hand Toaster for boys and girls, How to avoid sticky keyboards at home…
And loads more…
Happy Xmas, Shanta….
And…
Ensure your Mother never knows what really keeps you up for hours with this internet winter jumper and all round screen turban woolly…
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_8FspVOSZ4hI/TNk7uL4n2yI/AAAAAAAAAj8/7XkjXj4cmdw/s1600/pornatwork40368.jpg
What the Inner Circle of ´Perfect Englishmen´ might also like to entertain during one of the digital (chess) event breaks during the raving investigative S&N reporting could be two of the stories a Danish film-maker (Lars von Trier) donated to the world at large.
One is called: ‘Dancer in the Dark’
The other: ‘Breaking the Waves’
MOD:
HOW DO THESE FILMS RELATE TO THE TOPIC, Madhu?
Thanks, Madhu. I saw ‘The Idiots’ years ago and it meant nothing to me. I shall give these two a try.
I think Denmark and the lands east could be well worth reporting from about sannyas communities and it is my intention to visit Osho Risk; sailing it would be fun too.
Cheers.
Dear Madhu,
Perhaps you would be so kind as to clarify what you meant exactly when you used the word ‘”raving” in relation to “investigative S&N reporting”? I ask this question because the verb ‘to rave’, as I recall (although I have lived outside the UK for many years) has at least two possible meanings: 1. to praise 2. to comment in a crazy/foolish manner.
Or alternatively, did you actually mean to use ‘roving’ (which is synonymous with ‘wandering’) instead of “raving”?
Finally, does S&N have any special significance for you? Or did you mean to write SN?
Your most earnest attention in these serious matters would be greatly appreciated.
With the utmost kindest regards and respect,
Ashok
With enough awareness one can learn from anyone and any situation seems to me the gist of this article. (‘A Perfect Englishman’).
Another perfect Englishman, singing a perfect song.
Thanks, George.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kNGnIKUdMI
Hi Ashok,
You say (adding several questions): “the verb ‘to rave’, as I recall (although I have lived outside the UK for many years) has at least two possible meanings: 1. to praise 2. to comment in a crazy/foolish manner.”
Well, I used the word “raving” in reference to attending big music events and as a metaphor.
But your description does very well describe the flavour of your own post (at 3.06 pm yesterday). And I presume you’re not really expecting an answer anyway, are you? From a person, you describe (in your P.S. to Arpana) as:
“Madhu’s pontificating ‘Mother Superior’ act on SN, clearly demonstrates her own negativity and arrogance imho, and provides her with an acceptable ‘guise’ to flaunt her own ‘troll-like’ qualities. Deep down, I believe, she would like to be as openly ‘down and dirty’ like some others here, but lacks the honesty and courage to do so!”
I agree with Veet Francesco, when he responded to the topic quite poetically:
“…when he (Osho) was ‘fishing widely’ at all levels of the spiritual seas…”
And I agree with Prem Martyn, whose stance on the topic these days was more prosaic:
“The world of spirituality is and always was sick – and as such it is more of a hospital with people on the mend, hopefully. Outside it’s even worse or maybe just different.”(Prem Martyn)
Sincerely,
Madhu
P.S:
Sannyas and News (S&N)? What to say…feels quite sick, violent and weird sometimes what is happening on the bumpy virtual roads, doesn’t it?
“…people on the mend”, Martyn said. Good to give that a chance, I would say.
“…people on the mend”, Martyn said. Good to give that a chance, I would say.”
Martyn at his most perceptive; and includes you, Madhu, and Martyn and Lokesh and Shantam and me and everyone else.
Re Meaning of “rave”, here`s an old one I found lying around:
Rave on, Buddha in the dental chair
Rave on, thy holy fool…
Down through the weeks of ages
Far out, tripped-out sages
And mashed up no-mind mages
Get the story down onto well-pressed pages…
Walt Whitman nose down in some good grass
William James with his varieties of oceanic gas
Rave on, shameless shamans on a wild and dodgy path
Rave on, tantric taoists who like a shag and a laugh…
Rave on, that man outa India
Rave on, Mr Osho
You left us infinity
And an extremely shady past.
Fill your brain with nature’s wild and crazy stuff.
Rave on down through time and space
Along multi-mirrored corridors
Rave on thru the tripping of a vision…
Rave on, rave on…
Rave on, Omar Khayyam,
Rave on, Khalil Gibran
And that was only wine they were drinking….
Rave on down through the 20th century
Rave on, Alan Watts
Rave on, acid trips and booze
Rave on, Timmy Leary
Rave on, Hair o`thedogyam drunkpa
Rave on, magick Al
Rave on, Georgie G
Rave on, Ram Das` mate with the blanket
Rave on, Baba Freelunch
Oh what sweet wine, opiate, hash, pills, powders, trips, gas, plants, E we blasting….
Rave on, buddha in a dental chair
Rave on, thy holy fool…
Down thru the weeks of ages
Technicolour Soma sages
Psychedelic loved-up magis
Get it all down on printed pages
For the children of the future ages….
This is a Van Morrison song?
Rave on…Rave on…
Brilliant, Frank boy! XXX
And from 1957, a ‘perfect American’…
https://youtu.be/04E24MKU3yU
“Wouldn’t it be nice to get on with me neighbours?
But they make it very clear, they’ve got no room for ravers.
They stop me from groovin’, they bang on me wall,
They doing me crust in, it’s no good at all.”
Studio and live version.
Rave on. Van Morrisson.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sv49jlyX-co
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26W2Ybiq-jU
@Satyadeva
“You confuse prudery with aesthetics.”
I see I do you a disservice, Swami Satyadeva! Please accept my sincerest apologies. Aesthetics, eh? Please allow me to re-dress the balance then: does that mean you were sporting frilly, colourful, sexy ‘n’ lacy lingerie underneath your robe in an effort to aesthetically satisfy yourself and others present, on the occasions you did in fact get your kit off? Nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more, eh, guv?
So Ladies & Gentlemen, Trannies etc. in an effort to move away from some light-hearted teasing of the Right Honourable SD, and spare him any possible embarrassment and blushing in the event I happen to accidentally hit a nerve (which regrettably seems to happen sometimes!), I shall at this juncture move my focus towards a more ‘serious endeavour’, none other than the topic of the thread itself – ‘A Perfect Englishman’!
As there seems to be an awful lot of stuff currently flying around on the air-waves related to nudity, sexual imagery and so on, I decided the time was right to address an issue that has been smouldering in my mind for some time now…
And that is, I would like to consider the proposition that Osho, whilst he was still alive, frequently attracted those who were partly motivated by a desire for deviant sexual activity – namely, sado-masochism. In fact, I would argue further, that the common denominator that drove many towards the Master, was an overwhelming urge, either conscious or otherwise, to indulge in a full-blown, real-life, sado-masochistic adventure/masquerade!
Various indications for this proposition are evident: Osho frequently insisted in his talks on the need for a ‘Master’ whilst on the journey of spiritual advancement with him; he constantly demanded obedience and submission to his will by obliging his disciples at times, to don certain kinds of uniform clothes, and at others, to the taking on of new identities, or to the performing of physically abusive and tortuous meditation techniques, like Dynamic, for example. And so on, and so on…
The more I think about it, the more the whole ‘living master’ trip with Osho begins to look like some kind of SM contract/deal, knowingly or unknowingly entered into.
Possibly for some followers, participating in sado-masochism symbolised an act of rebellion against the kind of rigid and repressive sexual conditioning that they had experienced earlier in their formative years, when perfectly natural sexual urges and feelings had been squashed in a vain attempt to create some kind of adulterated human model of sexually-inhibited behaviour e.g. the Perfect Englishman (of Victorian fame), for example.
IMPORTANT NOTE FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE VIEWING PUBLIC AT LARGE:
Whilst some of what I have written here has quite clearly been done in the pursuit of ‘mild’ humour, I suspect there might be a grain of truth to my principal postulate of sado-masochistic tendency and willingness, forming a basic and necessary part of the psychological make-up of many who answered the call to follow Osho, when he was ‘still in the body’.
Is there anyone out there who is prepared to ‘fess up’?
“I suspect there might be a grain of truth to my principal postulate of sado-masochistic tendency…”
I think there is some truth to this, although sado-masochism is too strong a word, but I have felt something extremely puritanical has been going on among us, and its inversion. (Working through something puritanical has definitely been true of me).
Given the first rush of sannyasins were individuals who had lived throughout the 2nd world war, been in the forces, and their children, who had been reared according to armed forces values, ‘we are at war’ values; not surprising really.
I am getting a strong feeling you have a very stereotypical idea of what meditation is about. That people who go into meditation are good, should be good in a Christian sense.
In fact, Ashok, a rather puritanical idea of how an Osho sannyasin should behave.
Ashok,
Of course! Osho never hid it! I remember very well him calling his sannyasins sado-masochists and, you forgot to point out, schizophrenics.
Couldn’t be other way, don’t you think so? If not, why we needed a Master?
Cheers!
“does that mean you were sporting frilly, colourful, sexy ‘n’ lacy lingerie underneath your robe in an effort to aesthetically satisfy yourself and others present, on the occasions you did in fact get your kit off?”
Er, no, I don’t believe I did, Ashok.
Methinks you’re trying a bit too hard….
A perfect Englishman talks about how to live life according to the Master’s guidelines:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-kW9IB-ZNE
Those values ran parallel to sixties hedonism, if you will, all through the decade. Mocking and deriding was going on, but still at play.
Ashok, it’s hard work typing away at a blank screen, so it’s only cos I’m in rain-soaked Wales with the ‘flu do I get the inclination to be here at all. The pubs down the road with talent nights, discussion evenings etc. do their best but I refuse to go back down the ladder of humanity in jocular conviviality, because it’s simply unaesthetic and doesn’t sponsor what I really want to offer.
Where the Raels are screwed up is that they consciously have to displace their integrity, firstly, by confirming the absence of a deity and immediately instead replacing this credulity with the ‘belief’ in the presence of angels and aliens and this apparently benign man, their Michelin white tyre man who helps them become emotionally dissociative, ideological , symbolic (they don’t do therapy) but who gets them the goods i.e. the sexual licence going. Belief has its pay-off then. Like the Rasputin in Mexico. Mutual back stroking, musical or otherwise.
They then peer mirror, entrusting the idea that if you agree that I’m a fake then we can both move in fake ‘style’ or borrowed identity and our concordance will help us overlook our potentially polarising egos, over which we have little or no facility to translate into mutual recognition.
As regards your question, you must ask for what you really want. Being curious about the shenanigans on the Ranch and so on is nothing more than reading the Beano, when it’s not used to rebuild and reinvent the wheel, now.
You must know that our own Super Michelin tyre man (Osho, complete with Star Wars outfits) spoke in meandering ways which were perhaps ungraspable with a clutching hand. That does not mean to say that the imperceptible quality did not permeate the heart and still has that potential to permeate and stir and provoke.
One thing I was reminded of recently in Gurdjieff’s work, which makes so much sense and is useable – is that every sense impression, every moment of today’s colour, emotion, taste, sound and energising activity is in awareness…and from that it can be sent and distilled in presence. Just the shift and the knowingness to do that. It doesn’t work if one doesn’t apply to it. The Work, or the Play, it’s our call.
We metamorphose through Osho’s presence and that cellular revisiting in vibration more or less in some way each day and more so by remembering in practice. This was the gift that a living embodiment (Osho) of energetic transformation gives. It is redemptive and is a part of what Leonard Cohen ached to describe and sing.
When you talk of the work of the libido and its varieties, I am reminded of the man whom others know as big KP. In one of the darshan diaries (and forgive me, readers, that I mention this again) KP in the 70s was into SM sex and he told Osho this in one of the evenings recorded for posterity.
Osho said in brief that it wasn’t an issue to be guilty about, just find an equal partner who enjoys it too, and further suggesting there would be plenty.
Being conscious in any activity is also a consensual thing, and so it is with going to the edge of the edge in oneself. There is no map I have found or give and to proscribe or permit any given relating or consensual activity spiritually labelled or otherwises whatever in my very, very limited experience.
There is no BUT. So others’ opinions really don’t count unless there needs be a common intent or arrangement.
I am delighted to have met so many new Osho lovers this year. We have had a lot…a lot of fun and trust that will be available for years and years to come. Long may this Osho continue.
Love.