Nityaprem reflects further on the ‘child abuse in sannyas communes’ documentary.
Now that a little time has passed and the mental dust has had time to settle, I feel it is worthwhile to revisit Maroesja Perizonius’ documentary ‘Children of the Cult’. I’ve been on the web watching this unfold, and wrote this from the point of view of a current-events journalist. So here, reporting to you from the front line…For me, initially it was a difficult moment to see the then-girls reflecting on their lives from a mature 50-plus years of age and calling their commune experiences sexual abuse, which of course it was. If you haven’t yet seen the documentary I would encourage you to go see it. The commune failed to protect its most innocent members when they were vulnerable.
Who was responsible is the most stringent question the documentary doesn’t attempt to answer. This has started many discussions, of which this is the barest outline. So, was Osho in part responsible, for encouraging free love and saying that the children would be raised by the commune, thus absolving the parents from a duty of care? Or was it Sheela and the rest of the Ranch hierarchy, for not providing proper schooling for teenagers while rushing to get Rajneeshpuram built, and choosing to ignore the problem when it was brought to their attention? Can we say the parents were free from responsibility? And perhaps also a little bit, all the ordinary sannyasins who chose to look away when twelve-year-old Sarito walked hand-in-hand with her very-much-older lover?
There are many standard excuses that get talked about in a conversation about these things, that it was a different time and that people were in search of spirituality and free love in the Indian subcontinent and that parents sought to give the children the freedom growing up that they never had. I find it hard to give much credence to these — if you were truly spiritual and in search of love, would you not love and care for those closest to you, your children? Sometimes love is difficult, it is not all a bed of roses, it is peeling the potatoes and scrubbing the toilets as well. Love is guidance and protection and care as well as hugs.
We also can’t lay the entirety of the responsibility on the group of predatory sannyasins who were after the teenage girls, although they must carry a large and personal share. The atmosphere and social mores of the commune definitely contributed, they enabled these events to take place, and however liberating free love might have been for the adults, it created a sexualised environment. It was said in ‘The Times’ interview with Prem Sargam that the cult groomed the children, and there is a measure of truth in that. And recent treatment of grooming gangs in the UK courts clearly shows a concept of shared responsibility between those doing the grooming and those having the actual sex.
Personally, I remember there was a kind of pressure to have sex. Though I was only thirteen at the time, I was aware of the kits put in every festival tent, of condoms and latex gloves. You heard storiesabout multiple couples making love in one tent. Sex was expected. My own first sexual experience was not until I was eighteen and a long way away from the Ranch, but there was a certain frustration of desire that stems from that earlier period.
Was the abuse widespread? From the many examples in the documentary I should say so, and from what I hear the film-makers had to cut material out, they had too much. At the time, I remember talking with one of the other boys in the Kids Trailer at Magdalena on the Ranch, about why there were no girls to play with. He told me, “Nah, they all have older boyfriends and spend their time with them.”
These things also do affect our later lives. Some of the then-girls that I have heard from have spoken of periods of hostessing, sex work and drug addiction as a direct result of too much sex too early. Some have not been able to pay for therapy, and the trauma has deep roots. These days there is a more sophisticated understanding of trauma, forty years later, but you have to search to find a therapist with whom you have a good connection — it all takes will, money and time. The childhood sexual relations also affect the ability to form healthy relationships later in life, which affects forming new families, and much else as well.
It is natural for the then-kids to now feel ambivalent towards Osho and the commune leadership, who have been concealing, denying and silencing these things, if you go by the reports in Sarito Carroll’s book ‘In the Shadow of Enlightenment’. They feel unheard, unacknowledged and unappreciated even now, after all these years. When asked what they want, first and foremost is the acknowledgement of their experiences and apologies from perpetrators and parents, and help with payment for therapy a second, and real compensation a third.
In response there seems to be a thunderous silence from more well-known sannyasins. Those swamis and mas who lead meditation retreats, are at the head of centres or national organisations, were therapists or used to be well-known and close to Osho, have not been saying anything at all. These are people that the sannyas community looks up to, who are listened to. Some public opinions from this group would be very welcome, even expected.
Should there be an enquiry, as suggested by Dutch journalist Lodewijk Dros in the newspaper ‘Trouw’? The Catholic Church managed to do a thorough investigation into abuse by priests even after all these years, dare the Osho International Foundation do less? If you say you own the rights to Osho’s name, publish his books and direct the activities of Osho centres worldwide, then I think this responsibility is also yours. I think if you manage his legacy, then you can’t have the benefits without also carrying the liabilities.
How we as the brightly-coloured, extended family of sannyasins, ex-sannyasins and post-sannyasins feel about Osho and the communes may yet carry some weight.
I’d like to note that this article was also offered to OshoNews, and that they declined to publish it, without further reasons given. The law of silence, the Osho omertà, still seems to be in place for anything which is even slightly controversial or smacks of responsibility.
NP, I`m not surprised Oshonews doesn`t want your article.
Everyone was happy being a disciple/representative of the “Master of Masters”.
But being the disciple/representative of some toothless guy woofing nitrous, necking pills and blasting off into his disciples’ faces behind closed doors, whilst presiding over a pedo scene, doesn`t really have the same spiritual kudos to it, not to mention commercial potential.
Osho railed endlessly against “politicians” yet he actively courted and was surrounded by groups of people who swarmed, grovelled and sucked up to him (pun intended) whilst constantly in a state of intrigue reminiscent of the shenanigans of a medieval court. Everyone jostling for position constantly, mortally afraid of falling out of favour and desperately trying to stay “in”. Osho, like any autocratic potentate, played his minions off against each other all the time. Usually under the guise of “devices” or “hitting egos” etc. He wielded absolute power. That is what the stories about his sex life show, aside from any other kink.
Power is the elephant in the room and it runs top-down.
Yes, the stories that have come out are about abdication of basic responsibility, warped ideas of sexual liberation, delusional thinking etc., but it is also very much about power.
That all the therapists and high-ups are the ones who now remain silent is to be expected. They want to keep their power and authority, that`s why all took so long to come out too. As you say, Omerta is a key word here. Don`t expect them to work against their business interests or their “ego indentities”.
The guys who exploited the young girls were generally high status in the scene. Lower status members just toed the line, kept their heads down (again, pun intended) and above all, “Don`t judge!”.
This is similar, apart from the “don`t judge, drop your mind” wrinkle, to what happens all the time. Look at Epstein and so on. Part of having power is about having ‘droit de seigneur’ and access to young blood. That`s it. It`s a drug, it`s a high. You do it because you can.
Is that spiritual? It is if you equate the feeling of power over others with spiritual experience.
And remarkably, when you look closely at the whole sordid affair, like others of its ilk in numerous other “spiritual” orgs, you realise that in the same way as regular thickos have difficulty in telling the difference between shit and shinola, the average self-identified “spiritual” person can`t tell the difference between the feeling of having power and being spiritual.
With the sannyasin women who were abused as kids, the tables are turned. They were on the lowest status/power rung, now due to societal/social changes and concomitant changes in themselves, they are empowered and are using it as much as they can. Of course the old creeps are running scared, keeping quiet or lying through what`s left of their rotting teeth with the kind of level of spiritual halitosis that you would expect.
Playing power games always bring anxiety. You might lose it at any moment. Like being an addict. It`s not comfortable knowing in yourself that any moment that you run out of your drug of choice you will get the horrors. In fact, it`s a nightmare.
Thanks, Frank. It certainly makes me wonder if Osho’s organisation was ever truly spiritual. Nowadays it seems to have turned spirituality into a business, if you look at, for example, the way new Osho books are developed.
I think you’re right in saying a lot of people can’t tell the difference between power and spirituality. Maybe in the beginning they were looking for spirituality and in the end they ended up finding power and getting dragged deeper into samsara rather than finding a way out of it.
My experience of spirituality in the last ten years, which is the time I have really been engaged in the spiritual search, has been one of letting go, or perhaps more accurately, dropping away. Many things have just gradually disappeared from my life, like watching television. These days I watch almost no tv, just a bit of football or a movie on occasion. It’s like the whole of spirituality for me has become about slowing down, and being with the body.
The fish rots from the head down.
It’s ok if you have a dictator like a CEO, enlightened or otherwise, to run an Org, if they make ‘wise’ decisions with ‘integrity’ that align with your values, but if that starts to break down, you’re fooked.
Sannyas was a ‘no-brainer’, independent critical thinking discouraged, Osho was taking care of everything.
In one of your last posts, NP, a woman was questioning someone being excluded from the Ashram, to which Osho replied that he knew everything that was going on, and it was none of her business, and then basically ‘shut-up or get out.’
A pov that was conveniently flipped when everything went South.
In other words, transparency or critical thinking was not required from followers.
Notwithstanding all the genuine benefits, Osho used fear of exclusion and gaslighting to control people, and when any high-status people left, they got ghosted.
For all the freedoms and upgrades to personal conditioning that Sannyas offered on a personal level, it was an authoritarian ‘pyramid scheme’ on the social and organisational level.
Many are still happy with that, are cognitive misers, and don’t look too closely or care to know too much, if they are getting their ‘goodies’, their dopamine hits, and a simple, idealized spiritual fantasy life with group belonging.
Now the need to belong and herd instinct is hard-wired into humans and animals, so it’s a big deal, and we are easily controlled by fear. It makes us willingly stupid and entranced too, even if we have PhDs.
That’s why the concept of free speech and a ’town square’ to air things is important, at least to western thought, and has allowed the West to evolve so rapidly.
Osho’s power trip didn’t allow for that, which ends up, imo, as a mixture of light and dark.
Was it unique in “spiritual” groups or any other groups in that regard?
Nooooo, not by a very long shot! They were/are all at it, and it just keeps morphing.
Recently watched the documentary on the Hare Krishnas, ‘Murder & Madness’, which makes Sannyas look quite tame on the depravity scale.
A class action suit on victims’ behalf resulted in 2005 in “Society resolving its $9.5-million child abuse case. Bankruptcy filing, school closures precede compensation to 535 former students.”
You know, a year ago I would have dismissively read past all that, but I think it is the fruit of quite some critical examination.
Osho did use fear of exclusion and gaslighting and other tactics, like splitting up the family unit and inserting himself as the master in its place. It all seems manipulative now.
The thing that I find the most awful is that Osho mixed so much bad with the good. There were the brilliant talks on spiritual subjects, and then there was the conditioning.
However, NP, you never met Osho, were never fortunate enough to benefit from his advice, feel his love.
I also think you don’t quite appreciate where your parents’ generation was at, how much internal work we needed to do to recover from our conditioning, the residue of that of our parents. The times demanded change, chaos was in the air and often within us and consequently Osho took on a massive job with what was far from a homogenous unit, all types from many countries, at varying stages of development/awareness. In hindsight it’s easy to view certain things as “manipulative”, wrong, but being the master for thousands of rebellious “crazies” was no easy task.
The closest I got to meeting Osho was during the last family darshan he gave in 1979, which I and my father and mother were part of. You’ll have to decide whether sitting in front of him and speaking to him constitutes ‘meeting’ him.
Osho still remains a mystery to me. On the one hand he could speak so eloquently on spiritual and personal matters, and on the other hand he wanted shiny watches and blowjobs. It’s almost impossible to reconcile the two.
But you may be right, SD, when talking about the previous generation. As a matter of preservation of my own contentment and happiness I am sticking to equanimity and balance in viewing these things. I don’t feel the need to be judgmental, and I think with a little time that attitude will also prevail in my view of Osho.
Waddup, O$HO’s back motherfukas!
Tell me, in your many lifetimes has anyone ever worshipped you?
Ever prayed to you, sung songs to you, like a God?
Have people loved and feared you? Ready to commit crimes for you? Sell their body for you?
Have you ever been surrounded by non-spinary yes men and women, all day long?
Guess not, well you got no idea what it’s like to wear this crown!
Let me tell you, the pressure’s real, it’s a lot to deal with.
In the end, you’re completely alone with it all, it would make anyone develop a few peccadilloes.
You know, people find one little thing you did thirty, forty years ago, bring it up now, and cancel your whole fucking career over it, it’s sick!
And if you pussies, don’t love me anymore, well that’s just too fucking bad, and you’re ghosted!
Anyway, I still got the OshoNews. Now here’s my flow, like a Bo$$… Yeaaah…
“Alright, buckle up, buttercups, ’cause the Bhagwan’s back,
Droppin’ truth bombs like a sonic boom, spittin facts
Yo, check the mic, one two, this ain’t no tantric boo-hoo-hoo
It’s the Mystic Maestro, the enlightened bad boy, the Shameless Shaman, that’s who!
They’re dissing me, throwing shade, like I’m a con-man, a sex-crazed creep
But I’m just vibin’, keepin it trill, while y’all fast asleep
Yo, they calling me a cult leader, a guru gone wild,
But check the drip, I’m still hip, I’m still fly with ma style.
They grumblin ’bout the Rolleys, the diamonds, the fancy threads
Like I ain’t entitled to a little bling, after all the words I said?
He took our money!” they whine, “for his greedy gain !”
But I transcended, needin’ nuthin’, then manifested it back again! (Just like that)
93 Rollers, yeah, I collected ‘em, I had a whole damn fleet
Enlightenment’s expensive, but I still had lotus feet.
(Note to self: maybe next time for my whips, some Lambos, Beemers, Range Ro’s, Teslas…)
“Oh, the sex cult!” they cry, like they ain’t got a dirty mind.
I was breaking their chains, leavin’ their hangups behind.
They sayin I ran Darshans, just to get some tail
Like I invented human urges, that narrative’s so stale.
These squares be hatin’, their chakras all jammed up,
Bellyachin ’bout Oregon, I built it outta nuthin, suck it up
That city of enlightenment, that Rajneeshpuram dream,
Was a playground, a Utopia, ‘n they turned into a crime scene.
Sheela, that drama queen, with her power play,
Had a few loose screws, took the reins, went wild, that’s all I gotta say.
Yeah, things got messy, the shit ran high,
But ain’t nobody perfect, not even this enlightened guy.
So keep on talkin’ ’bout Oregon, the guns, the bio-terror,
But don’t forget the love and laughter, the magic, that’s an error.
“He was on Nitrous!” they griping, like they got some PhD,
Man, I’m beyond chemical, I’m high on ecstasy.
They bitch about the valium, and poppin all dem pills
But dealing with you chumps, I needed a little chill
The stress of all that enlightenment, the weight of ten thousand souls
Don’t judge my pharmaceutical choices, it’s just how I roll.
They say I played the lust card, abusive and sly
But these Ma’s were willing, with that twinkle in their eye!
Yeah, I had a few young beauties, that’s true, I won’t deny,
But my tantric healing nights, came with consensual vibes
The women were devoted, their spirits were so free,
If they felt a cosmic connection, what’s that gotta do with me?
Yo, they call me a predator, a sex-obsessed swami,
But these broke-ass haters, just jealous no-one tasted their salami.
They said that my gaze, hypnotized the flock,
But it was my inner peace, stronger than a rock (ya feel me)
I coulda been the POTUS, that’s the truth, no lies
Imagine me in the White House, with those soulful eyes
They said I brainwashed ‘em, made ‘em give up all their dough,
But that was $piritual inve$tments, don’t ya know, (cha-ching)
So go on with your podcasts, your angry reviews,
You can hate me, you can diss me, call me a twisted dude,
Go ahead and judge, keep pointing your fingers,
While I’m sipping my diet coke, with some enlightened swingers.
I’m the rebel, the enlightened rogue, who broke every rule,
Cause living it large ain’t about playin’ it safe and cool.
Word up, generations later, I’ll still be alive
I’m with the immortals, and this legend never dies
And word to my Baes, my fam, my homies, how you feel
Check out my crib, it’s a gas, y’all invited fo’ real.
Peace out – O$HO MC
“Generations later, I’ll still be alive
In a journey through the cosmos, on warp drive.”
“Can we say the parents were free from responsibility? And perhaps also a little bit, all the ordinary sannyasins who chose to look away when twelve-year-old Sarito walked hand-in-hand with her very-much-older lover?”
In normal life always the parents are responsible.
Maybe they were too weak to interfere.
The bit towards the end, which backs a call for an enquiry, is also worth noting. I think an enquiry into the abuse, cataloguing events to know how widespread they are and holding perpetrators to account, seeing if the harm was acknowledged, apologies were made and an offer to pay for therapy was extended, makes a lot of sense to me.
Much in the way the Catholics cleaned up their act after many years, finally being held to account by the people, so should sannyas authorities also do something.
There was a reaction in the Trouw newspaper today to the article about ‘Children of the Cult’ that was published yesterday, where the secretary of Vrienden Van Osho says that they favour a public enquiry in the Netherlands, and are looking into whether they can afford to do it. That’s a good step forward.
The Vrienden Van Osho are a Dutch foundation which is a semi-official representative of the Poona organisation, they handle translations and things, I believe.
https://vrienden-van-osho.nl/
Here is a Draft English translation of the article in Trouw. As translated by ChatGPT.
———
BHAGWAN FOLLOWERS SUPPORT AN INVESTIGATION INTO CHILD ABUSE WITHIN THE MOVEMENT
Osho-communities | Among Bhagwan followers in the Netherlands, there is enthusiasm for an investigation into child abuse. The feasibility of such an investigation is being considered.
LODEWIJK DROS
Religion & Philosophy Editorial
“We empathise with the women and men who, after forty years or more, still suffer under painful memories of transgressive behaviour to which they were exposed in the Osho-communities,” says Frank Cliné from Odoorn, secretary of the Stichting Vrienden van Osho (Friends of Osho Foundation). This foundation represents the Dutch Bhagwan followers—sannyasins. There are about 250 of them.
Osho is the name that the Indian guru Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh adopted later in life. Worldwide, a section of the sannyasins formed hundreds of communes. According to men and women who grew up in these communes, child abuse occurred there.
In the documentary Children of the Cult by Dutch filmmaker Maroesja Perizonius, she and other Bhagwan children talk about sannyasin men who had sex with minors, mostly girls. Perizonius said in an interview with Trouw on Monday that she now recognises this as child abuse but experienced it as “normal” at the time.
Cliné hopes that the victims “will also find recognition and acknowledgment with us.” He acknowledges that “sexual relationships between adults and minors took place in the Osho-communities”, although he doubts whether rape occurred. “But seduction and deception are serious enough.”
Film-maker Perizonius does not know the extent to which it occurred. “No one really knows.”
“It would be good if this came to light”, says Cliné. He states that none of the board members of the Friends of Osho “had any awareness of abuse in Dutch Bhagwan-communities in the 1970s and 1980s.” He says he is “shocked by the stories.” Regarding forced sterilisation of teenagers, which Perizonius mentioned in Trouw, Cliné states that nothing is known about this in the Netherlands.
Perizonius is calling for an investigation. Cliné supports establishing a Dutch investigative commission, “like the example of the Deetman Commission.” Wim Deetman led the investigation into abuse in the Roman Catholic Church. “We are looking at whether it is feasible to establish such a commission and whether we have the funding for it.”
The investigation should shed light on the extent of the abuse and provide answers to whether the sexual behaviour in the Osho communities was a manifestation of Osho’s philosophy, as Perizonius and others suggest.
Cliné points to the “influence of the times.” “Driven by the sexual revolution, the Netherlands in the 1980s had become one of the most tolerant countries in the world regarding sexual morality — including the way adults interacted with minors. So tolerant, in fact, that now, forty years later, we can only look back at that period with bewilderment.”
In 1985, the year the Bhagwan commune in the U.S. collapsed spectacularly (as seen in the Netflix series Wild Wild Country), VVD Minister of Justice Frits Korthals Altes proposed lowering the age of consent from 16 to 12. The left-wing politician Herman Meijer -who had previously been a member of the CPN and PSP (parties that later merged into GroenLinks) — even wanted to abolish all restrictions.
Frank Cliné (75) of the Friends of Osho Foundation never lived in communes but visited those in Poona (India) and Rajneeshpuram (U.S.) during his vacations. According to testimonies in Children of the Cult, child abuse also occurred there. Cliné says he never noticed anything: “That must have happened in hidden corners.”
“Sannyas authorities”? I did not know that sannyasins have a pope.
And I don’t think that one can compare what happened with the Catholic Church. There it was hidden, the sannyas way was an open secret.
For the twelve-year-old it was a love affair.
Maybe even her father could not hold her back.
Now 40 years later she sees herself as the victim – strange.
Certainly OIF with its trademarks and copyrights and intellectual property has tried to make itself the authority in the sannyas world, and to a certain extent they have succeeded.
It was also illegal in many places. The age of consent in the Netherlands was 16 years at the time, below that kids are considered minors. Maroesja, who made the ‘Children of the Cult’ film, was only 13 when she was sleeping with adults in the Amsterdam commune.
And we now know that too much sex too early is profoundly harmful to development, results in trauma and so on.
It may have been illegal, but the question is:
Who creates now a victim personality because of things that happened 40 years ago?
Because of the negative effects of those experiences over the last 40 years, Satchit. You seem to have no idea about such consequences.
NP,
Osho’s ‘intellectual property’ was bequeathed to the OIF in his will. Therefore, that also gives them the rights. No need for them to ‘try’ anything, they ‘are’. I reckon they’ll decide if they have any moral obligations, not some ‘toothless’ inquiry.
Much of the story has passed me by, so thanks for your recent highlighting of history.Its clearly a sad story, which has traumatised those closely affected.
That such a movement might attract those with a predilection for sexual abuse is hardly surprising. Any group or movement is always going to attract all sorts.
For those who have been victims of abuse, many appear never to be healed from the traumas and it’s deeply sad how difficult it is to do so. Abuse seems to run from one generation to the next, exemplifying how challenging it is to deal with.
For those who weren’t a part of the sexual abuse, the issue of Osho’s blow jobs affects how I see him – but not greatly. That his movement became as corrupt as many other so-called spritual groups is also no surprise. All groups, tribes and countries are affected in the same way. Such is our human fallibility.
Clearly Osho was a one-off, with insights and understanding that only very few have ever demonstrated so effectively. Brilliant, like a Newton or an Einstein, but flawed as many geniuses are.
That the movement developed secrets and lies and got lost in political machinations both in the USA and elsewhere is hardly surprising. Osho was naive himself with his fanciful notions of a Buddhafield and the like. And he seems to have had the same sexual inclinations as many others – his enlightenment didn’t reach beyond “Tantric theory”. He was as selfish as the rest of us when it comes to sex. Few have mastered love and sex.
NP wonders if public enquiries might be useful. I understand the logic but it seems to me that bringing up the past also reinforces it time and again. Those involved have to seek some personal resolution that can never be fully gained by retribution. I don’t of course underestimate how resolution can also be faced with a face-to-face conversation. But it’s rare to be able to bring both parties together to achieve this.
The whole saga of Sannyas is part of our human collective psyche. A small part in many ways, but one that each of us who were a part of is learning from in one way or another.
The whole experience of the Ranch depended greatly on what circle of people you were part of… if you were just one of the normal sannyasins, doing your worship and going to lectures, you wouldn’t see much amiss, but apparently the closer you got to Osho, the more people interested in power you would encounter, and the less pure the spiritual experience became.
It was the same with sex with the young teen girls. There were those who didn’t suspect anything, and they were comparatively many, but then there were a few hundred men who groomed them and slept with them. Of course a long-term relationship was out of the question, and these swamis ended up moving on rather quickly, so that the teenage girl’s experience was “they want to have sex with me and then they leave, I’m worth nothing”. It’s very traumatising when the story repeats itself over and over again.
These things are detailed in Sarito Carroll’s book ‘In the Shadow of Enlightenment’ at some length, and there will be more books to follow from the group of ex-kids I’m sure. But it’s the long-term aftermath that I find so damning, these kinds of traumas are a barrier to living a normal and satisfying life.
“Of course a long-term relationship was out of the question, and these swamis ended up moving on rather quickly, so that the teenage girl’s experience was “they want to have sex with me and then they leave, I’m worth nothing”. It’s very traumatising when the story repeats itself over and over again.”
But is it not part of the spiritual journey to not make the self-esteem dependent on the behaviour of others?
But Satchit, these were very young, inexperienced children, doubtless filled with romantic fantasies and therefore highly vulnerable to such exploitation. By all accounts, they weren’t on a conscious “spiritual journey”, they were there because their parents took them with them and who were more interested in their own processes than caring for them, imagining ‘the community’ would be looking after their kids.
I find your failure to appreciate this breathtakingly naive (rather like the parents in fact).
SD, you can have your opinion about me.
Anyway, they were there to learn something or experience.
Blaming all on others does not work for me.
I suggest you’re also here to learn something, Satchit, part of which is seeing how you use a lofty ‘spiritual perspective’ to avoid making ethical judgments. It’s something you’ve almost certainly borrowed from certain teachings that allows you to feel as if you’re ‘above it all’ but which I suspect is not truly rooted in where you actually are in consciousness, but is a convenient way for not letting certain things bother you too much.
The sort of attitude that, for example, would imply that the Nazis’ persecution of millions of Jews allowed the victims to experience torture, extreme deprivation and a miserable death “to learn something.”
In other words, sophistry of a rather high order.
Sorry SD, I am not in the mood for sandbox fights with you.
Of course you’re not, Satchit (lol).
One saying I particularly remember from the Ranch time is “do not judge”. This would be used not just by Osho in discourse about certain things, but also by sannyasins, after some minor irritation or boundary violation like a hug that went on a bit too long or turned rather touchy-feely. It was a kind of showstopper on critical examination of events.
I came to take this on board and accepted it as a kind of personal mantra for a while. In some cases it was good, like a reminder that we haven’t walked in another’s shoes and don’t truly know what his or her life is like, and in others it was bad, where it halted a good instinctive gut reaction which should have been examined more closely. As with many of these sannyas sayings it could be one or the other.
These gut feelings though. Now, looking back on years spent repeating that saying, I come to think that as a response it really keeps you from refining your sense of discernment. Of discovering what attracts you to a man or woman, or of finding out what makes friendship tick. It is a saying that opens you up, but it kills your instinctive understanding.
For a developing young person, that is dangerous, because as Sarito Carroll says in her book, learning to say “no” is part of growing up.
That’s right, NP, “don’t judge” can be easily used for manipulating others.
But there is a second, a deeper meaning that only advanced seekers know:
Here “don’t judge” includes the judging too.
Means, don’t judge the judging.
Means, there is nothing wrong in judging, if it happens.
By a remarkable synchronicity, I was just re-reading Anand Yogi`s fascinating biography of Swami Bhorat called ‘Intimate Glimpses’.
“I remember when my master Swami Bhorat was up in court on charges of larceny, murder, money laundering, poisoning, drug dealing, paedophilia, aggravated buggery, not paying the gas bill and ejaculating without a licence.
Taking the stand, he berated the judge for being too judgmental and reminded him that to be on the spiritual path it is vital not to judge. Of course, the judge immediately gave him an unconditional discharge and a dose of unconditional love.
The next day, I happened on Swami Bhorat in the back of his Rolls Royce, cavorting with a couple of his disciples. ZZ Top`s ‘Gimme All Your Lovin” was blasting out on the stereo and the disciples’ heads were bobbing up and down rhythmically and devotionally in front of the master in time with the music. The floor was littered with empty bottles of Armagnac and gin, nitrous oxide canisters, empty bidi packets, chewed paan leaves, porn mags, piles of used tissues, piles of used notes, watches, luxury car magazines, firearms and empty packets of red and blue pills.
He looked at me, bloodshot eyes glazed with compassion, and, pretending to be drunk and angry and somewhat red in the face, shouted: “What are you looking at, sisterfucker? Twat tvam asi! If you ever tell even a single soul about this, out of compassion, not only will you never eat lunch in this town again, but I`ll get my devotees to rip your bollocks off and feed them to my peacocks. Love”.
Pleased with the energy I was being so lovingly bestowed upon by the master of masters, I of course realised totally that it was all a device to thwart my judgmental mind. I also realised that keeping silent about what I had seen would both help in silencing my mind on the path to enlightenment, and also help to avoid confusion amongst millions of disciples who were still not ready to hear the truth as they were still in the thrall of their judging minds, which from their baboon-like judgmental state of consciousness they would undoubtedly completely misconstrue the spiritual significance of the master`s actions.
I trotted down to the chemist to fetch master a few packets of Viagra, three tubs of Vaseline, some bottles of Valium, a few canisters of nitrous oxide and a box of tissues, popping into the off-licence on the way to pick up a crate of Armagnac.
After delivering them, I set to work on the book that the master had told me to write. On that very day, I magically completed the chapter that explains how beyond all worldly attractions and egotism Bhorat is and how his disciples should never ever judge him by normal standards for fear of being stuck in samsara for all eternity.
For myself the lesson could not be any clearer: “Don`t judge. Keep schtum. Yahoo!”
I`m the big one, I`m the Bhagwan
Everything I say is spot on
Mistakes? I never made one
There`s no one can tell me what is and what is not on
My clothes may be made of cotton
But I said “fuck” more times than Johnny Rotten
If you don`t like what I say, you can go do one.
I`m the total OG
I`m not just some abc yogi
I don`t care if you think I`m phoney
Cos the chicks still get to blow me
Yo! They put sauce on my pepperoni
And when I need some yoni
they get to bone me,
while my doc and dentist, they just stone me.
Look, I got millions of homies
And every one of them owes me.
They agree with me
They bend their knee to me
They wanna be me
But that ain’t gonna happen, see
Cos I`m the only one
I`m the big one, I`m the Bhagwan
When I want a cutie I just bag one
I got more lovers than Don Juan
I rock on, specially when I got a lob on
Cos I`m the big one, the Bhagwan
If you don`t like it, you can do one.
Yo dogg respec, I’m even bigger now, I gotta rename
O$ho Emcee, I’m in the hall of fame
Straight outta Koregaon, like a hurricane
Outta the ghetto and off the chain.
I had a few glitches, making riches
Now it’s all gravy with my hoes ’n bitches
And my Poon Tang Clan are digging ditches, for all de snitches!
I’m next level GOAT, never too big for my britches
Partying hard, poppin’ champagne all night
mixing blunts ’n molly ’n china white
Aya, kit kat, mushies ’n spice
Blowing out my brains, it’s just a device!
I’m like a bonobo monkey on viagra
Squirtin’ it into Sam ’n Sara (samsara)
Anyway, the work out’s good for my asthma
I blow like a volcano or maybe Niagra
But I’m still the Enlightened One, I’m still the wise guy
they still shouting O$ho, hands up in the sky
I’m still in demand, dealing the supply
and no-one’s fucking with my vibe
I’m still getting head almost every night
I got an ashram full of hotties on standby
if they snitch on me, I give ‘em the evil eye
but I didn’t do no shorties, never crossed the line
On the guru food chain they all below me
I got the juice, no competition can own me
I’m the Boss of all the Bosses, my homies know me
I’m O$ho…so blow me.
Hardcore bro.
Straight outa Kutchwada.
NWA!
Neo-sannyas With Attitude!
(Greatest hits)
Express yourself
Gangsta gangsta
Dopeman
Appetite for destruction
Findum, fuckum an` flee
Arrested
Fuck tha Police
Real niggaz never die
(only visit this planet).
Yeh, still have one of their underground hits mixtapes on the Ruthless Records label, with DJ Yahoo! and The Gasman…
Guruz-n-the-Hood
Wasco County
Ca$hram
Hug Life
Sannyassassins
Hit Squad
Gangsta’s Paradise (remix)
The B*tch Is Back
Bugging & Tapping
Smith & Wesson
Love…bombing
Don’t Eat From The Salad Bar
Giv ‘em Hella Salmonella
Drive-by Hookups
All-nite Orgies
Shawties & Pdf Files
High All The Time
Poppin Vallies
93 Rolleys ’n Countin
Drug The Homeless
Call in The Feds
Xzibit A-Z
Break Out!
Escape-G.O.A.T
Banged Up in Charlotte
World Tour, Back on the Grind
U can’t touch this, Swami Bhorat!
There`s only room for one MC in dis buddha `hood
Get the message, bro`? Mmmm good!
I`m the bad one
You just a two-bit Bhagwan
You losing your rag man
You talk like a fag man
You breathe too much gas ,man
You dress like a batty man
You have wear a hat, man
Cos your head is so slap, man
On the mic: MC Bhorat
I don`t do dozo pills or hippy crack
I do cognac and real crack
I don`t do black magic I don`t go wack
Don`t shoot no bull, just stick to the facts
My homies have got my back
Don`t stab me in the back like your Sheela rat.
Hey!If she`s the kind of bitch you attract
You need to up your game and improve your rap
Who the f… are you? You no idea where you`re at
Listen up bro`, cos I am that
I`ll bust your ass in verbal combat
I`m the zen master here and you`re getting smacked
I would consider inviting you to party
`cept I don`t hang with dudes who dress like Liberace
You think callin yourself 50 rupees makes you a player?
I tell you bro` you sound more like 50 paisa.
With your posse of pussies you can play the dictator
You like Harry Potter to my Terminator.
Hasta la vista baby, see you later!
Bore off, Bhorat, you running at the mouth
You better strap up, cos I’m sending you South
You wanna battle rap? Soon take care of that
I’m a pitbull flexin’, spittin’ facts
You mess with 50 Rupees, you shit out of luck
I go sick, I go nuts, I don’t give no fucks
My rhymes got kevlar on their hairy chest
They’re bullet-proof, steel toe-cap best
You wanna face off? Your face’ll turn to jelly
Your legs be wobblin’, like spaghetti
You be throwing up, with a Delhi Belly
Running to your mama, so you better get ready
I’m the biggest pimpin’ Rap Master
You a lactose intolerant imposter
I’m the OG neo-tantric Monster
Noshing on Dom Perignon, ’n caviar like a Mobster
Sheela was a rat, cos I wouldn’t cock her
So I stomped her, plenty more on my roster
You an amateur, but you do make me laugh
Though you’re probably quite smelly, in need of a bath
Maybe cos Anand Yogi is your only staff
“I couldn’t fake it enough to make it”, on your epitaph
I took the spiritual path and kicked it up the butt
I Bagged all the white privilege, while you live with your mum
Gobbling gulab jamun, chapatis and chaat
Cos all the cockroaches took over your hut
Shit, I’m Genghis Khan meets Buddha, haven’t you heard?
I kill ‘em laughing with my “fuck you” words
I grind it out, I get ‘em all stirred
Then I’m a one man wolf pack, culling the herd
My stocks still on the rise, Insta, Youtube, ’n shit
I ramble on, they subscribe ’n click
I press the dollar sign, ’n I’m minting it
Mercedes whips and ice on my wrist
I built an empire multinational
I went global international
I’m still Versace Gucci fashionable
My intellect on the level of AI, just more compassionable
I always give a good show, I never go low
Got two bisexual laydeez waiting, to give me a blow
with plenty of sextasy, drugs ’n dough
But if you had a party, who would show?
Hey, but if you do have a party, drop the addy
I’m like, sooo over Liberace
Stay Lit….
You got a lot to say for a guy with no “I”
I guess you think you`re pretty fly
But your rhymes got less soul than Chinese AI.
You said you was never born and never die
But you just high on your own supply.
Now your omerta buddies have ceased to comply
You still sellin` but no one wants to buy.
I`m the future, I`m a hard core Hindu
Mantras and yantras is what I swing to
So I went and changed my name to Sadhguru
I give them Hindutva with a little bit of woo
Don`t worry,bro`, I still get the punani in, too
I just don`t get my ass busted like crazy old you.
Osho, you`re a no-show, your clicks are so-so
You lost all your dough cos you wuz too busy getting blowed.
Man, you are just so last century
People only see you in documentaries
You spent too much time in the penitentiary
While my popularity gone exponentially.
I learned from your mistakes, I keep it discreet
I ride a two-wheeler but crowds still kiss my feet.
You had a medical team to crank up and dose ya
I get by on idli and masala dosa
I listened to all your tracks even the ones on hippy crack
Some of that stuff was pretty wack but I soon got the knack
I said “Shit man, I can do that”.
Now I`m sitting back rolling in the lakhs.
I sample your licks and I don`t pay a cent
I`m just like you, bro :I never asked for consent
Yo, check the mic, one two, Osho’s back in the booth!
I’m a humble giant, you’re a mouse in this house
You bustin’ for a lyrical slaughterhouse
You actin’ all macho, for a big girl’s blouse
By the way what happened, to your spouse?
Better strap in, this ain’t no yoga retreat
It’s a smackdown on SN street
I wake people up, you put ‘em to sleep
With Isha lullabies for your sheep
Gurus in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones
More baggage in your closet, than I have bones
Was it murder when your wife died at home?
Rushing the cremation so nothing was known?
You live a life of foreign luxury
Wheels ’n watches, just like me
Flyin everywhere for the currency
That’s not very spiritual for an eco-Yogi
You mad bad Sadhguru, hardcore bore
I’m diehard, you’re blowhard, a windbag for sure
A recycled copy, tribute act snore
You’re making lakhs but I’m making crore
I’m the monarch, a patriarch, feet up on my throne
I made it all happen without an iphone
Lighting firecrackers with a rebel tone
All about enlightenment, ‘n getting boned.
My homies are wild things, they live in the now
Your devotees meditatin’ with a furrowed brow
You strutting like a peacock, while they kowtow
to your mystic mumbo jumbo, feeding your cash cow
Gullible injuns worship anything that moves
blind deaf ’n dumb faith in fake gurus
holy cow dung is more moo poo
While my people celebratin’, going Yahoo!
You’re a brand, a commodity, all purity and clean
I dance with naked lovers, you preach celibacy
So bow down to the master, kiss the ring, bend the knee
Eat my dust Jaggi…Victory is for Me!
I was going to write something clever about only parody making the obvious really clear, but it never was that obvious in reality, was it?
Only a few people knew about the Valium and the nitrous oxide, and although the bling and the cars were on display, the level of Osho’s attachment to these things was kept hidden. The women too kept the secret blowjobs in confidence.
Still find Swami Bhorat hilarious….
Sheela made the accusation that Osho was addicted to Valium and nitrous oxide after she had left the ranch in 1985, which Osho himself denied when asked by a reporter. So nothing new.
He also organised a photoshoot and had himself photographed under the influence of nitrous oxide in 1982 and produced three books worth of dental notes which where published in 1985, therefore these things where not at all kept hidden, quite the opposite, he publicised it.
Parmartha, the erstwhile editor of this site used to say Osho used the photos of himself in the dental chair and the publication of the nitrous oxide use as a Gurgieffian device to help clear away people who where not ready for the deeper work with him. Osho used to tell stories about Gurdgieff testing disciples and including one where he pretended to be unenlightened and behaved like a madman on a train and got pissed and hit people and through everyone’s luggage out the window which embarrassed his disciple who was trying to convince everyone he was this great Master.
And as far as his sex life was concerned he was quite happy to tell the world media and answer any questions about it. Recent and unprovable stories about blow jobs which have come out may be mind-fucking and interested for ex-sannyasins but are of no consequence for anyone interested in meditation, unless you want to meditate on the statues of Indian temples which do display some excellent big lifesize busts of breasts and bums.
Tibetan Lamas, however, do engage in sex acts with dakinis. But this is well later than the times of the celibate commune of Gautama the Buddha who would also be labelled a cult by mainstream society today and by some exsannyasins who have been holding onto this site and the anti-cult groups.
“The level of attachment to the bling and cars were kept hidden” – well. many sannyasns accepted these things at the time, not as attachments but gifts and play. And those who couldn’t left which was always good because it created space. Moaning about it forty years later won’t do any good.
That’s one of the things that was unique about Osho and raised the bar above Buddha and Jesus was his acceptance of the material world, even if he talked some rubbish ideas above sometimes.
Of course some people can’t accept that but then holding onto Osho and wishing he fullfilled the old expectations of the traditional guru and older religious traditions would have to be a complaining hobby for ex-sannyasins rather than an exercise in expansion of consciousness.
I think Osho tried to “accept the material world” but got lost in it, he lost his way, if indeed he ever found it. He was a brilliant public speaker, a great intellect, an impressive hypnotist and a powerful psychic. But enlightened?
If you listen to Deeksha’s podcast interview series ‘Dragon Lady’ she talks about incidents with Osho during his time in Bombay where a young Japanese woman burst out of his room and accused him of rape, or where Osho suggested to a sannyasin that he give a loving sexual initiation to an 11 year-old girl. The sannyasin refused.
These are just some of many incidents which suggest that the master was not as loving and pure as he liked to appear. Taken altogether it is pretty strong evidence.
Then why hang around if you hear and believe these kind of stories, and it turns you off? Better to move on to more helpful situations. Why hold on to a guru you can’t trust, don’t even believe was enlightened or went wrong, or which you can’t accept?
That’s why all sannyasins have left this site since Parmartha died. Because it became dominated by ex-sannyasins who think they escaped from a cult but want to hold onto Osho and believe that present day sannyasins are gullible and deluded, like yourself.
I feel a kind of kinship towards sannyasins, we shared a common experience of Osho and the communes which was outside the ordinary.
I also want to help the ex-kids get their story out there, make sure it doesn’t get silenced again. That was part of the purpose of this article.
I don’t think present day sannyasins are gullible and deluded, I think they are totally entitled to follow Osho as long as they want. It isn’t my belief anymore, that is all.
I know, but you think they are naive and gullible. And you are disillusioned with Osho, like Lokesh and Frank.
Which of course makes one wonder why you’ve kept coming here, Shanti. Perhaps the feeling of superiority is just too seductive to resist?
Nitya, you never were a sannyasin, but you still fight to be one, but first you have to spit a lot more….
https://youtu.be/tSk5U4oHhu0?si=IF-VRUODsHvfgInG
https://youtu.be/rtnAI1hgNyI?si=fu1YC1QfRCX51gDR
2 Beatle reactions to Maharishi Mahesh Yogi hitting on Mia Farrow and her sister. Lennon’s ‘Sexy Sadie’ and McCartney’s ‘Fool On the Hill’.
Not sure ‘Fool on the Hill’ is about Maharishi, Sugit. Where did you hear that?
Many years after their sojourn in India McCartney apparently said he regretted their criticism of the TM guru and both he and Ringo returned to the meditation practice as a way of enhancing their health and well-being as they entered later life. Ringo in particular seems to have benefited from this as he’s never looked better than in recent years (imho) while both of them have carried on performing well into old age.
Paul mentions the Maharishi as influencing the song a few times/places along with some other things/people as well. But does the song diss Maharishi or defend him? Maybe Paul was answering John and his reaction. “Fool” is in both songs but it’s applied to the followers/disciples in ‘Sadie’ and also in ‘Fool’ at the end.
A swami came to visit me. He was eighty years old and had quite a few followers. He came into satsang and said to me, “Please don’t talk to me about Yoga, I have read all the books and know all of that.” So I said, “That’s fine, I won’t talk about Yoga. But what about all the other things you’ve brought with you, all those other methods and techniques? Let me help you carry them outside, then you can come in again without them.” So I helped him to the door, and he stood outside for maybe five minutes, turning this way and that. Then he came in and said, “It’s amazing.” Later one of his students came to me and asked, “What have you done to the swami? He has rejected all dharmas.” (H. W. L. Poonja)
There are a series of devices Osho and his representatives used in the communes to avoid criticism of the things that he said. Here is a short list of what you might get told in response to any criticism:
1. Osho did not have any teaching. He only deconditioned, but did not recondition us
2. Any criticism of his teachings means that the person criticizing is not spiritual enough and does not understand him
3. The criticism is made out of hate for Osho instead of a sincere search for truth
4. Osho’s words were just fingers pointing to the moon
5. Osho contradicted himself all the time, so we cannot hold him accountable for anything he ever said
6. The silence between Osho’s words is important, not the words
7. Whatever Osho said was just a joke
8. Whatever Osho said was a device to wake his disciples up
9. Whatever Osho said was meant specifically for that one person only
I remember well these kind of things being said to people, and that these plus the general disapproval towards any ‘negativity’ meant that there was no serious discussion at all of what Osho said in his lectures in the sannyasin community. I remember signs like “leave your mind with your shoes.”
For me, this alone is already stone-cold proof that Sannyas was a cult. I’m now at the point where I can come out and say that. It has taken a while. But really any movement where the leader’s words can’t be examined and reasoned through in intelligent company is not a good place to be.
NP, you are becoming a famous Osho critic.
Why not write a book?
Title: ‘The Fifty Shades of Osho’
Thank you for the kind suggestion, Satchit, but I’m not so much interested in critiquing Osho. I think once I am done kicking the tyres of my own understanding of Osho – which is basically what I have been doing of late in these posts – I will return to more sensible topics.
Some victory by the Gunners on Sunday, don’t you think, SD? Putting five past Man City is impressive even if they are not in the best form lately. Maybe it’ll be the Gunners’ year in the Champions League.
Yes, NP, “the boys done good, onwards and upwards, the sky’s the limit”, and any other similar winner’s cliches! I managed to see it free online via a Vietnamese broadcast, recommended by a friend from over there. Blocked out the commentary but still a worthwhile watch.
Hi,
Uhhhh, this seems to be a nice invitation by Satchit for a nifty change of starting letters! Isn’t it?
How about this title:
‘The Shifty Fades of . . . . .’
Leaders, masters, gurus, teachers, coaches.
The shapes of all of us are shifting, changing, fading away.
Into The Great Wide Open –
Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqmFxgEGKH0
Cheers. To all travellers, rebels, lovers, moaners, loners, stoners…whoever you think you are at the moment.
“Here’s to the crazy ones.
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently.
They’re not fond of rules.
And they have no respect for the status quo.
You can praise them, disagree with them, quote them, disbelieve them, glorify or vilify them.
About the only thing you can’t do is ignore them.
Because they change things.
They invent. They imagine. They heal.
They explore. They create. They inspire.
They push the human race forward.
Maybe they have to be crazy.
How else can you stare at an empty canvas and see a work of art?
Or sit in silence and hear a song that’s never been written?
Or gaze at a red planet and see a laboratory on wheels?
We make tools for these kinds of people.
While some see them as the crazy ones, we see genius.
Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.”
(Apple)
Yeah (Apple).
“About the only thing you can’t do is ignore them.”
I do not think that’s true.
Imv, this is wishful thinking.
Ignorance can ignore everything.
Even its own history.
Confrontation, confession, acknowledgement, as-is-ing are rather difficult acts. That natural intelligence has to muster.
Just look at me:
Have been going through a rather rough year with my daughter (12) at school.
And appreciating her independence.
Oscillating from love to anger and hate to despair to peace and blue sky and around again. While internally going through all
the old family pictures and feelings.
Before, I was hoping not having to do with any of this. Only clear blue skies…Haha.
Did not have much space to worry about the (un)spiritual stories of others.
Only like two weeks ago I came back to J. Krishnamurti – on ‘Sitting quietly’:
https://youtu.be/s9IS1zW6In4?t=239
Or Sri Yuktheswar history – Muktananda – Babaji and other shifting (see!) shapes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Tz-9DYEawU
Howdee.
There are often unexpected hiccups, I have been coping with my mother’s health difficulties. Life doesn’t stand still.
It seems to me that there is more that unites those who share the sannyas experience than drives them apart. Despite the differences of opinion over what Osho may or may not have been, we share the experience of Buddha Hall, of listening to discourses, of the meditations and so on.
There is a definite connection. Some years ago when my father and I had gone to see the Dalai Lama and were returning home by train, a lady in her thirties dressed in burgundies and purples sat down in the seats opposite us. She wore a mala, and this turned out to be the starting point for one of the friendliest and most engaging conversations I have yet experienced.
As long as there is tolerance and sharing, the meeting of sannyasins, ex-sannyasins, post-sannyasins and the merely interested is a very happy affair. So my advice is: allow people their opinions, don’t push your views to others, be tolerant and focus on what you share, not what sets you apart.
This was a very nice docu that YouTube found for me, enjoyed it, very meditative. It is called ‘The Subtle Art of Losing Yourself’ and it mixes philosophy, observation of nature, Taoism, mindfulness, a Tai Chi practice into one blended whole. Beautiful.
https://youtu.be/9KArWcMldPM?si=301I1-kVxIwMU4S6
Thinking different…
There is no Osho except for the one people have constructed in their heads. It’s hard enough to ‘know’ anyone, even people you have known for years, whilst barely knowing their inner life.
The character Osho is a story in one’s mind, a mythology, a symbol, built on memories, dreams, projections, opinions, now mixed with scandals, flaws, shadow sides, and re-assessment.
More fundamentally than that, there is no Osho because there are no ‘Others’ in awareness.
There is only the appearance of separate waves in the Ocean of Being, including oneself as a person.
Making someone a special case wave, outside of oneself, reinforces duality, and subtly disempowers, if it isn’t properly balanced.
If that’s the case, then everything is an appearance in Being, or Maya, happenings and doings, without a personal doer. ‘Osho’ or any other devotion to a ‘special’ wave and the little wavelets surrounding them, however much garbage or not is floating around in those waves, keeps the ‘mission’ of uncovering one’s ‘true nature’ at a distance, in an entranced state with erroneous beliefs.
“Our revels now are ended. These our actors,
As I foretold you, were all spirits and
Are melted into air, into thin air:
And, like the baseless fabric of this vision,
The cloud-capp’d towers, the gorgeous palaces,
The solemn temples, the great globe itself,
Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve
And, like this insubstantial pageant faded,
Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff
As dreams are made on, and our little life
Is rounded with a sleep.”
Shakespeare, The Tempest
I will offer an alternative view: I think that whole shpiel is a construction of mind. What George Thompson in the documentary I quoted above called the work of ‘The Storyteller’. There is another way of looking, which is from the perspective of ‘He who Senses’…just take a deep breath, and return to the body.
Seems Thompson is a disciple of ET.
Storyteller?
Being a sannyasin is also a story you can tell to yourself or to others.
He only cited ET as an influence, Satchit, along with several others.
SD, I don’t think that there is so much difference between being a disciple and between being influenced.
At least he did learn something from ET, for example that nature is important for finding peace.
Then you’ve never been a disciple, Satchit. A disciple has a huge psychological investment in the guru, even “an emotional relationship” that, for example, Osho encouraged. Someone who’s just “influenced” is not so personally involved.
This is an interesting criterion, SD.
“Huge psychological investment”.
Is it what you did?
Then you have been a disciple? And me not?
Interesting….
At one stage, yes, Satchit.
To me, you’ve always appeared like an outsider looking in, keeping yourself well protected, basically a sort of ‘mental follower’, certainly not a disciple. (Don’t worry, I know that space extremely well myself).
Didn’t you say here you rejected the chance to actually be with Osho in a darshan, deciding you couldn’t be bothered, so you never actually met him in person?
Don’t worry, SD, he has put his thumb on my third eye.
Seems a bit arrogant that you want to tell me that you have been a disciple, but me not.
By now, you should know there are different ways.
The truth is the truth, Satchit – sorry about that (lol).
Good that you apologize for your false statement, SD.
Don’t worry, be happy.
What “false statement” are you referring to, Satchmo?
The “false statement” is that you call me a ‘mental follower’.
Seems you call yourself the better disciple and sannyasin than me.
Does it feel good for your ego to be superior?
Btw, comparing is never a good idea on the spiritual path.
I call it as I see it, Satchit. To me, most of your posts exude a mental complacency and self-satisfaction, riddled with spiritual cliches. I see very few that represent an alive intelligence, my impression is that you stopped ‘seeking’ a long time ago, content with having found a convenient ‘comfort zone’. And you bristle like a hedgehog at the merest hint of criticism.
Yes, that’s true, SD,
I have stopped seeking. Because I have found.
And you?
Still seeking?
I don’t sense you happy with yourself.
What’s the problem?
I invite you to write an article for SN on how and what you’ve “found”, Satchit. As it’s not evident in your posts up to now.
As for me, I’m what’s generally known as “a work in progress” (lol).
And a fair amount of what I say about you I recognise in myself, actually or potentially. Shocking confession, eh?
Yes, SD, it’s more interesting than shocking.
Maybe it’s a case of mirroring. (lol)
I’d be quite interested in reading your article, Satchit, about what you have found on your spiritual search. Please do write it!
I don’t think an article will happen, NP.
Because it’s difficult to express truth with words.
Yesterday I have found truth, today I have lost it.
Both are still part of duality.
Search for inner peace and joy, then it stays with you.
Somehow it doesn’t surprise me that you don’t want to write an article, Satchmo.
It saddens me, but it doesn’t surprise me. Maybe you could get Dominic or Frank to ghost-write it for you?
You need not be sad, Nityaprem, I will write an article and send it to SD.
https://youtu.be/Ef9QnZVpVd8?si=4q9-YIClf4Y6ERJt
I have to a agree with Satchit, being a Sannyasin and belonging to a club is a story one tells oneself, and well past its sell-by date, imo.
Dominic agrees with Satchit? Will wonders never cease?
So Dominic, would you say these stories can influence what one feels? Because in part that was the magic of Osho, what you felt when you sat opposite him.
Although I have to say I like the ‘The Tempest’ quote, I have always been partial to that play myself. Mainly because there is an old magician, Prospero, in it and I have always been much in favour of magicians.
I was listening to my storytelling course by Alan Moore (the comic book writer) and he was talking about how people who could read and write were seen as magical by many in the early times. Fascinating stuff, the connections between writing and magic.
“Now my charms are all o’erthrown,
And what strength I have’s mine own,
Which is most faint. Now ’tis true
I must be here confined by you,
Or sent to Naples. Let me not,
Since I have my dukedom got
And pardoned the deceiver, dwell
In this bare island by your spell,
But release me from my bands
With the help of your good hands.
Gentle breath of yours my sails
Must fill, or else my project fails,
Which was to please. Now I want
Spirits to enforce, art to enchant,
And my ending is despair,
Unless I be relieved by prayer,
Which pierces so that it assaults
Mercy itself, and frees all faults.
As you from crimes would pardoned be,
Let your indulgence set me free.”
I find it interesting that there is such a rich mixture of spiritual teachers present in the extended sannyasin family. Those who went on to search in other places after Osho died came into contact with many interesting figures: Poonjaji, Gangaji, Mooji, Eckhart Tolle, Adyashanti, Tony Parsons, Rupert Spira… it’s a long list.
But it seems there is nothing new under the Sun. Once you have read a few books and are familiar with the basic techniques, you keep finding the same things over and over. And if you don’t connect with it your best option is to throw it all out, and walk a dharma-less path of spirituality, connecting to nature, harmony, silence.
In a way I find the pathless path amongst the most beautiful, because it allows what is within to come into harmony with what is waiting without, instead of following a path prescribed in a book. There are things you can take along, like a deep appreciation of the breath, or the slow pace of walking meditation. But these are just aids.
I think the brightly-coloured family of those who still call themselves sannyasins and those who do not can use a bit of a lift today. I feel we have more in common than sets us apart, if we choose to be tolerant and kind and forgiving towards each other.
There are always arguments about what Osho was or was not, and I think people should be allowed their opinions, because each person’s view of Osho will have been formed by their experiences before and after times in the communes. Just take a moment to create some distance between yourself and another poster before crafting a fiery reply. Is it kind? Is it beneficial?
I would like to see all those who shared the Osho experience come together to reflect, to share the wisdom of passing years. Maybe we will be able to reach a new perspective together.
Some badly written thoughts on Sannyas-GROOMING:
I skipped the first coming-out stories of grooming, and the tales of that dancing medium giving blow-jobs to Osho as typical Anti-Sannyas mainstream media bullshit – we read so many releases in the old days, and now again. But now I can accept such stories even if I don’t read them. Those things will have happened just as everywhere else around the globe.
Sannyas was alive when Osho lived – more or less – for those who enjoyed the early days in Poona One like me. All different stories, yes, but some things we had in common, you surely had to have a lot of sex…or be damned a stupid monk unable for Sannyas.
Because I did not explode screaming and shaking while I had an individual bioenergetic session with bitchy Poonam (English Ma) she gave me this advice I had to accept before she told me: “For one week fuck another Ma each day. But don’t choose the Easy-Fucks”…I felt shocked I was that asexual and of low energy…and of course I didn’t follow her advice – how could I, poor me ? Haha.
Many sannyasins dropped out after a few years of holding on to the sangha, went to other Masters/Gurus, sat in Advaita circles and tried to keep connected to the spiritual path somehow. Those who still speak up nowadays are regretting the old days in some way or the other – mostly. The Me-Too from their unreleased traumata helps them to finish their former spiritual journey to live in peace with a needed: “Osho, leave me alone!” Maybe it helps them but a needed therapy this time can’t be spiritual of course. “Fuck Sannyas!” may do the job…for a while….
Bad English enough for tonight?
Nityaprem, I also sometimes look for some kind of virtual reconnections, stories and memories of other sannyasins, but in vain, those days are over.
You either have real contact with friends from the sangha, or just move and bend Sannyas in your thoughts with your ability to write about it. But the real thing can’t be transported anymore because the source (Osho) we once shared, has gone – or is just available in your own privacy, howsoever deep it might be there….
On facebook there are some groups who try to realise a sharing of “Sannyas Lost & Found”, but this rarely happens, because as we read something from another mind it gets dragged into mind-fuck whether that may contain truth, or not. And this is such a tiring process that most people rather say something like: Thumbs Up…or yes, I like that…or just stay away and silent because to disagree or teach a better way to look at Sannyas, Osho and “the rest of it” is not really worth the energy spilled.
Those few groups who say they want to re-establish some nice kind of sharing are in most cases just one-man-band events. They share some stories but nobody else does. The only writer is isolated in his own stories, editing his own memories in articles, quotations, images or forwardings but no one else feels happy to do the same.
A few exceptions are there. This “newsgroup of five” for example, or that group of residential workers from all Osho communes, but the outcome is self-oriented stuff mostly, some need to therapise misled exercises and lost hopes or some misuse you try to declare by coming-out and heal just by writing about it to receive some helpful solidarity maybe.
And the rarest thing happens around a real author who just shares his happenings and experiences – for example, just like Subhuti does in a very acceptable, interesting way and with skill. He just published another book:
https://www.theculturium.com/subhuti-anand-waight-my-life-with-a-misfit-mystic/