“Taking Sannyas”
There was and still is a thing called “taking sannyas”. However some argue it died in the flames of the book of Rajneeshism, of which 10,000 were burnt publicly in September, 1985 in the Ranch crematorium, presumably with Osho’s knowledge.
The Book of Rajneehism published twice in 1983 , was a creation of Ma Anand Sheela and her team, (and also presumably approved by Osho), was a strange affair. The defence for it was that Osho “needed” a religion to establish himself as a religious leader in the States, and therefore he could get leave to remain in the US indefinitely. In political terms it made sense to someone like myself heavily involved with being a commune member at the time.
The book was keen on “Initiation” as it was called.
The book states
“The concept of Neo sannyas is central to Rajneeshism. To “Take sannyas” , to become a disciple, is to become a “member ” of Rajneeshism. ”
The book states four simple rules are required of a neo sannyasin.
1) To dress in clothes the colour of the sunrise.
2) To wear the mala outside the clothes so that it is plainly visible.
3) To use the new name given on taking sannyas.
4) To meditate.
Today taking sannyas is still done, under different guises and different formulas.
Some with a mala and some without. Some wear blue jeans, some wear orange.
Some meditate and some do not. Does it make sense?
Parmartha
Still matters to me. If they feel, when they meet him, as I felt when I met him, taking sannyas will matter to them. Lot of people just got, get a sannyas name. Always been the same.
Parmartha, Please enquire from the fellow sannyasins in UK, what was the state of Sannyas initiation during Osho´s last days, because it will shed the light that Oshohas consciously enocurarged this Master-disciple bond. Just because main Osho seat in Pune does not perform Sannyas Initiation rituals, it has open a flood gate for small players but all of them follow the structure of Osho-1987-1990.
Shantam, all things have a fashion.
In the seventies the master/disciple paradigm was all the fashion. It was arguably a great game. From the demise of the Ranch (1985) Osho was emphatic we were his “friends”. Maybe he knew a little bit more, but a fresh maturity was needed from our side to avoid the exploitation of the surrender that many thought was implicit in the master disciple relationship.
I dont doubt that many are still attracted, and were in the years you mentioned to the master/disciple paradigm, but it leads to organisational madness.
On taking sannyas, Osho used to say when I was around him that “many” take the outward expression of sannyas, but only a few really take the inner sannyas. So that too needs to be kept in mind in any discussion.
Who takes inner sannyas and who outer is not a question to be judged by other. Millionars or the beggers all have the same constitutional rights and obligations. Osho sannyas is something like that where the participant choses his own course of action. from our side, it will be enough if we don´t mix our cultural and personal conditionings into the matters of others, unfortunately, this is what head bent Osho, Pune management is doing. People who are self sufficient in their medittation don´t need sannyas but then they don´t need Osho also, and the world at large is showing this everyday. Is 99.9999% UK population is missing something called Sannyas?
Shantam,
the question of inner and outer sannyas IS judged in fact in your paradigm, it is judged by the “Master”. In some schools of sufism the Master him or her self is very difficult to find, or even identify, and the bond with the disciple is a rather secret thing. It may well be that history will declare a 150 years hence that the “real” sannyasins/inheritors of Osho were unknown to any of the organisations, or organised sannyas giving and taking, etc.
I mean anyone who rated giving self important scheisters like Turiya , Paul Lowe ,his wife , Michael Barnett, Devateeth, Veeresh, and that bloke with the Tibetan box of Black Magic Chocolates to intimidate and bully commune youngsters into ‘feeling vid de ‘art,’ and not taking the pi** , must have been less worthy of worshipping than a can of cider on a hot day.How the bolloxy bollox can you justify sending people round the bend via a therapist twice your age , instead of giving em all the skills and life experience for a bloody good laugh…? If the making of comedy in the Ashram was anywhere near as funded as therapy or self service so-called seeking ( don’t bother me now i’m having an insight) then we wouldn’t have all the intimidation and fascism that still persists… how many fuckwits did you meet in sannyas, or self important psychology types(very common in europe) sponsoring the 3rd floor of IKea ..white bedsheets and anodyne interiors.. Come off it !….. he’s dead, you’re alive ….time to settle scores and stop worrying about pissing your pants if you transgress the law of belonging to someone elses hierarchical commune. (I only lived in one that wasn’t) Sannyas = emotional fascism..and the English cure for all nazis is ..yes you guessed it..take ze piss often and regularly…and that way you can regulate who your friends are and your own life with or without gurus and … with love.. . not never never land…
I see it like this. Sannyas was once a very alive and exciting game…what that game consisted of seems to have been a very personal matter.
When I look at people who are still hanging in there with the sannyas game they usually have some investment in it, financial, career, sentimentality, fear of the unknown, or just plain lost etc. Some of the lost ones are convinced they are doing Osho’s work, although it is often the case when questioned about what Osho’s work actually is they are none too clear about it. Then we have the Bhakti Yoga aspects of the guru disciple realtionship. Personally I’ve largely found this difficult to relate to and at times, when confronted with some smug devotee with a far away look in their eyes, difficult to take seriously.
The whole Indian guru magic show is wearing a bit thin and there exists today a growing anti-guru movement. I find myself somewhere in between. Osho for me was a mystical energy to be reckoned with…he was quite a guy. On the other hand this endless quoting of the old boy and countless set up photos seem to have more to do with a cult of personality rather than a sincere crack at trying to become unattached to the body mind complex.
I’d say it is a good measure of a master to judge his worthiness not by how many sheep he gathers round him, while dead or alive, but rather how many men and women become masters in there own right and thus spread love, light and laughter where it previously was unmanifest.
Sannyas…get over it. The experiment, for the much greater part, is over and the intelligent ones have moved on to higher ground.
For British audiences of all ages,Tommy Cooper made a lot of people really laugh…okay he’s dated and fairly inaccessible to many now,….. but (stay with me there’s a point here)…..if I was to gather all my most treasured experiences it’s certainly the gentle roll of laughter over the solar plexus and upwards that fills me with sweet nostalgia…probably more than all the sex stuff actually!!!!….friends who made you cry with laughter…and certainly more genuine than any evening meetings with earnest motley unsexy truth searchers…(help where’s the door….)
Contrary to laughter and playfulness, it isn’t memories of the understanding gleaned from a discourse on ‘two beings relating with the wings of a parrott flying high over kailash to the sound of cheering rickshaw drivers’ nor was it from ‘healing the wounds of the Gandhian association of Catholics controlled by Freud for making you an obedient cog in a war mongering anti truth society’.. or ‘by looking, respectfully, inwards’…which i would recommend for healthy living….
So yes laughter , and in Pune….most people(i’m generically guessing here) in a hierarchy of values went for the energetic hearty stillness in between the words…the long hypnoshis sssssssssss followed by being zapped by hours worth of Osho energy…
nice.. but not nice enough to set up a bunch of star trekkies searching for the holeyness of their consciousnarse with anaemic levels of interpersonal irony ….personally i have little or no time .. yes NO time actually…. for gathering round special interest groups borrowing their plans for living from someone who’s ‘cracked the code’…though on second thoughts i could be tempted as i get older into joining the Laurel and Hardy fan club…’sons of the desert’… now there’s something(a DVD) you can leave to your grandchildren that will raise a smile…(or should i leave them a video of a therapist talking about salvation?)
its a tough call..answers on a postcard thanks…
Sannyas…get over it. The experiment, for the much greater part, is over and the intelligent ones have moved on to higher ground(Lokesh)
And the writer is still hanging around at sannyasnews!
can´t someone tell to the gentleman where Andrew Cohan and his people are having coffee. May be he can join them.
Sannyas is over..Osho is a master and masters are replaceable, he is not that mythological Buddha or Jesus. i have written again and again..with this kind of thinking, as far as west is concerned..Sannyas was not even a one generation affair. Many people got inclined towards it during a certain phase of their life, because of alternative fashion and i am sure most of them have got the dividend worth of their investment.
My energy and love is for those courageous beings who still dare to jump into Osho Sannyas, even though Living gurus are just around the corner…
The whole Indian guru magic show is wearing a bit thin and there exists today a growing anti-guru movement.
It is a fact written all around the wall. Good for the Church. I see the attendance growing everyday. People may not display the visible sign of Christianity but they are feeling proud on their roots and heritage. Thanks to the practioners of new age spiritual movments like sannyas. Where every high school drop out becomes some kind of therapist, even God cannot save such love love blah blah practioners.
lets not forget that taking sannyas until 1986ish meant dressing everyday of the week in orangey-red clothes with a mala outside your shirt.. on the train , at work, shopping, everywhere ….so that you realised once and for all you were separate from society….and had found more laughter, truth, sex and a vital force and presence that was to be declared brazenly…. in fact after one documentary by christopher hitchens on Medina commune uk, i was travelling back on the bus from kalptaru, the london centre when i and around six others ,ma’s included, were attacked by two pleb -proletarian skinheads…..Sometimes being wise and loving meant the scum of society had an excuse to lash out…
Sannyas was a fire test in many ways… and had it not been for the payoff of having somewhere better to live and celebrate in , (international communes and Pune), it would have meant very little as purely an exercise in transforming oneself a la advaita supermarket on offer at ten a penny on the internet nowadays….
Sannyas was about extreme and gullible behaviour experiments…called growth…. from what i’ve seen since its a thousand times more controlled…but less offensive to the average punter too….why they even turn up in their Gucci handbags and 4×4 landrovers in OshoMiasto, Italy every weekend to do their primal-a Group-a….
“Today taking sannyas is still done, under different guises and different formulas.
Some with a mala and some without. Some wear blue jeans, some wear orange.
Some meditate and some do not. Does it make sense?”
I wonder what does make sense in this world. Money, politics, natural disasters?
Osho many times said (so as other Masters) that we had done it before many times. We sat with Buddha, Jesus, Krishnamurti etc. We took sannyas, we analyzed it, we dropped it, we put it on back. We became clever, over it, mastered it and all sorts of nonsense!
But did we get to the essence of it? I do not think so, as otherwise more of us would have been enlightened by now.
I came to conclusion that without a guidance of an enlightened one I will get nowhere. And to discuss whether it makes sense to go to the doctor when you are ill or not is silly. Of course we should-why die diseased!?
I think the complex history of sannyas made people confused. The minds became sharper, but the hearts became weaker. And I agree that the concept of sannyas and bowing down to gurus makes it another religion.
For me it has always been clear, even if all sannaysins die on this planet, I would still take sannyas, because it is only between me and the Master. Who cares about what Sheela thought about it!? Remember Osho and not idiots around him.
I would say, speak to enlightened sannaysins and re-connect with Osho! He is such a gift, such a flower that only stupid will not get on the journey with Him! Or with Jesus, Buddha etc etc.
ah yes,being attacked by skinheads…that time-honoured path to enlightenment.
as a hippie,i had already been targeted by the skins,hippie and paki bashing was the best game in town for those guys. then i became a hippie with a picture of a paki round my neck–hey,kick one,get one free!
i agree with martyn…that`s what i find to be somewhat lacking about neo-advaita,ah,the soft thud of doc martin leather on skull…..
the fundamental difference between bhagwan`s “sannyas”(aside from the idea he may simply have been trying to sabotage,with a good degree of success, the old “sannyas” ) and that of all the other indian gurus was infact the “zorba” element was it not?
that was where all the controversy lay.
zorba was,of course,amongst other things,amoral,hard-drinking,fun-loving,despising religion,prank-playing over-sexed,over-the-top,to the point of violence and tragedy….
so,if being a social outsider,dressed in the traditional colour of the outcast and criminal, attacked by skinheads, doing a gurdjieffian range of dodgy odd jobs,living in communal huts, squats, and houses,writhing naked in crowded rooms,screaming and shouting,jumping up and down,working insane hours for no pay,sexwork,flat-bottomed suitcases thru the green channel,dodging immigration,meeting folks and doing stuff you would never have in a million years,giving the authorities the finger,wild parties,endless dancing,”tantric” shagging and innocent fun,doing e,blowing your life for a better one with a lust for life that shows no respect for tommorow hasn`t done the trick already….
i could certainly suggest a reading or re-reading of “zorba the greek” as a great help to any appraisal of sannyas.
Who says, women are not sharp, clever, wity, and that these sexy things in life cannot go on the higher ladder of In-light-ment. Good post Ma Chetna. Best on this thread.
Chetna… could you ever tell someone you worship to sod off and go make the tea instead….sort of ‘chummy-like’.. ? if you can its highly likely that they and you are on the same wavelength.Which can help mutually with disease, death, doctors, shallow breathing and uplifting aspirations, paying the rent, writing a love letter, laughing together, doing the washing up, snoring in bed, worrying too much,thinking out aloud,getting it wrong, getting it right, walks on the beach, looking at family photos, feeding the dog…well you get the picture….
You’ll probably find a lot of people in your life worth worshipping, and they’d certainly enjoy it if you did…If there’s on thing i regret , is that i couldn’t find more people who were wiser, more loving and cleverer than me who could inspire me morning noon and night…to worship them…
If only people were more… well…. human, and my life was more well oh i dunno, everything… yes everything… that would be nice, more… ummmm everything…..
Thank goodness for Gurus I say, who make life so much more well you know ‘OK’ to be alive and be me..in a roundabout sort of way….
En-lighten-ment is Ok. Most important thing is the ardous yet simple work of In-ladder-ment. Lest we forget, “Osho is the Otis”.
(Otis Elevator Company is the world’s largest manufacturer and maintainer of people-moving products including elevators, escalators and moving walkways)
So in a way, Sannyas is a process of learning the art of digging deeper in the celller and going up in the dark atic.
RPM 33 and1/3rd…..is that book you recommend.. the one about living beyond one’s means in Greece.. does it end with a country of only a 5 million population of working age, out of a total population of 10 million. (half of whom live in Athens)……the average retirement age being 55 on a sick note from the doctor….then….run up debts of 500 billion euros? that’s debts of
€100, 000 each.. yes i like that kind of live each day as if it were your last……orea polikala, endaxi….. and yes it was a great rollicking read i agree….
look at these videos and tell me if “a friend” can do this to people?
http://ashram-in-poona.bplaced.net/
Chetna , i looked at one of them, n6, for about 4 secs, on ff.Brought a tear to my nostalgic eye to see how much hair men had in those days….
To answer your question…the Royal Academy of Dramatic Art back in the ’70′s used to have some avant-garde teachers who would insist that to deepen the students understanding of performance, dramatic preparation/lessons should take place naked, with lots of catharting with the class of students… to get them to take risks and develop trust on stage….and I’m certain that they weren’t all auditioning for Hair or Oh Calcutta..two famous stage plays of that epoch…so it was probably just part of the whole 70′s thing
Haven’t some things changed since then…apart from naked screaming religious groups.. i’m sure you can still do those..
Let me put this very simply then..Chetna if you like to spend your weekends still doing that kind of thing, then i hope you have a very understanding boy-friend…is he enlightened too? Do you worship together?
oh and one more thing…
Who cares?
Chetna ..Now having flashed through the other vids, fine yes many of us were there doing all that….
Now guess what i consider a kinder more useful ,generous, creative collaborative, intelligent ,anarchic and humane film legacy for the next generation…Life of Brian ….or Life of Sannyassins…
thanks chetna.
i just watched “easy rider” and then “woodstock the movie” last week,so i put me feet up,rolled a big one and just got right into “the ashram”…
i did a kind of meditation to see if i could enjoy a bit of nostalgia and stay in the moment at the same time..
its not easy..its only for seriously advanced tantricas of the lefthand path…
the bit where michael barnet,(the lifelong arsenal fan) said that the therapy was like “voodoo” made a lot of sense.
i guess it goes a fair way to explaining why,organisationally sannyas ended up about on a par with haiti…
when papa doc and his cronies aren`t around,you`re on your own with only papa legba to rely on,and that`s well risky.
ah well,(stubbing joint out wistfully in full ashtray): i guess times have changed.
maybe its good that its all gone a bit more albert camus,these days
“dont walk behind me,i may not lead
don`t walk in front of me,i may not follow
just walk beside me and be my friend”
Martyn, you are completely missing the point. Look at the impact of Osho’s energy on people. It was a gift to allow such freedom of expression. In my view not much has changed and people need help and catharsis! But most importantly, people’s gherat were overflowing with love. You van see it in the video.
And look at today’s’ therapists. They just cannot do it, simple. It is all based on “tantra” and is so boring. No energy, no love. The only guy I know is Arun who can shake the whole thing out of you and only because he is following Osho’s advise and not doing anything, and let it work through him.
It is very strange that many sannyasins do not remember Osho, they just love to babysit their mental conclusions and protections of their lives they ended up in. Ending up watching TV (like rest of the world) and waiting for a miserable death.
oh come off it chetna,
there are some excellent daytime shows on tv these days.
i was just watching a re-run of columbo on itv 4.
classic,it was amazing how he caught the killer….they dont make `em like that anymore.
there was a time when banging away in a crowded room in the name of love was where it was at for me,but now,all that seeking stuff seems so passe,plus,i guess it would be quite difficult with my incontinence pants on…
these days, i`m just totally at one with what is……
the doc reckons i havent got long,so i had better enjoy it while i can..
whoops,you must excuse me,must dash,i`m missing “deal or no deal”…..
Chetna…I wasn’t around Osho to get enlightened.To get it, that, this, or those .To learn how , who or when to love.To follow the energy, open to the divine, be in a state of no mind, receive his energy,build world peace, or revere the holy words.
In fact its a puzzle probably made up of many and various ‘answers’.But I still think Life of Brian is more me, and spirituality in its obvious orthodoxies isn’t.
I’m a bit like Osho in that way.. I don’t ,won’t and can’t fit in… and my mouth always causes trouble…. and i really enjoy commenting stupidly on this blog, which i share with my obedient , surrendered girlfriend sitting in the corner and clapping at the funny bits (otherwise i put her outside until she behaves properly).
His blessings..xxxx
McMurphy .. it seems as if you have entered a social democratic suburban version of contented elderly paradise …where life is one long incontinent stream….punctuated by …adverts…
@ Swami Prem Martyn
Read an interview recently in which the interviewee made a comment to the effect that hardly any ‘old’ sannyassins were at the ashram now, and the implication was, that this is because the committee are such ‘utter bastards’; and I murmured to myself, ‘You don’t reckon them all being over fifty, and sixty, and seventy, and eighty; and arthritis etc. is something to do with this absence; but incontinence pants!!!!! Horror!!!!
Swami Prem Arpana.
arpana, as i have my comments moderated here by my old swamates, the editors,i can only give you a sanitised version of my reply regarding proprietary poop pants
A lot of the time in Olde Pune many disciples would turn to heir fellow seekers and prior to a redeeming hug say in that time-honoured spiritual manner redolent of St Paul when he read St John’s version of the new testament:to whit, ‘you are so full of shit’ ‘me too, lets hug’..
These days one ought to be more cautious with such greetings, as they might contain an element of truth, that holy grail of seekers everywhere.Just a word of caution though, the smell of old ammonia is a dead give away.
Parmartha . . somehow I feel . . taking / receiving . . sannyaas is an individual calling . . any ism is inevitable . . I guess . . all is interconnected . . each one who takes / recieves has a unique journey . . & shall continue . .
chareveti chareveti . .
@ Chetna
You said.
‘For me it has always been clear, even if all sannaysins die on this planet, I would still take sannyas, because it is only between me and the Master.’
YES.
)))))