How to see the ever lingering Court cases between Osho International Foundation and Osho Friends International in India …
Let me say first off I have no personal affiliation with either of the two parties. The people behind Osho Foundation have it seems complete control over the property in Pune, whereas the break away group Osho friends have given the former a run for their money by defeating them in the copyright case in the USA jurisdiction…
It is said that because of this victory, all Osho discourses are free to download at oshoworld.com, the signature site of Osho friends.
In one previous article i have mentioned that it is a clear gift of 6500 US dollars to everyone who wants to download Osho talks free of cost, as Osho International charge 3.50 dollars per discourse.
What is of further interest is that both these parties are involved in a number of court cases (in India) against each other.
… India, where 3 million court cases are pending!, where it is not unusual that a case filed by a grand father comes to the final conclusion when the grand child himself becomes grand father!!
… In India, which is in dire need of judicial reforms – as the constitutional and civil life of 1.3 billion people cannot afford such lengthy and expansive court battles. Against this background of absurd legal recourse, one would not be at all surprised if the functionaries of Osho Foundation and Osho Friends have to wait 10 or 15 further years for the court decisions.
I am not a punter but within India there must be a 75% chance that Delhi based Osho Friends will win the cases.
I myself wish them to win.
The evidence of thousands of Osho discourses are enough to prove that Osho was a Master, and it is the fundamental right of his disciples to Visit their Master´s Samadhi – and to ban them is against the very spirit of India, where religious tolerance is thought to be the backbone of civil society…
Osho International Foundation will certainly have an uphill task to prove that Osho left a clear cut written statement to turn the Ashram structure into a resort for example…
The place which was asking for tax free status for decades because of its religious nature cannot turn the coat overnight and after the death of its founder change into a club kind of structure.
For Osho Friends it will not be difficult to prove What Osho wanted, as in the video, I leave you my Dream. Dr. Amrito himself is saying what is the work of the “Inner circle”, and how inner circle´s agenda was hijacked by the powerful group, who were not willing to work as a team…
The cases between OIF and OFI is also testimony that mediators are not different than other human beings. The stubbornness and all the panoply of the ego remains intact.
Where to find an amicable solution through dialogue is not possible, and this dialogue is not even between Philistine and Israel – one question mark arises – over the working efficiency of their Master´s teachings and this should also be considered.
Indeed, this is a very sad state of affairs whatever way one looks at it….
Although the above post portrays a certain neutral appearance of the thoughts of a concerned citizen of the sannyasin world — Shantam, your ending statement in regard to the sannyasin fights being remarked on, as being “…a very sad state of affairs whatever way one looks at it…” seems as appropriate to your own post as to the State of the the Sannyasin World 2010.
First, you claim that Osho Friends have socked it to Osho Foundation by “defeating them in the copyright case in the USA jurisdiction…”
Shantam, where have you been for the last two years when this point had been discussed, re-discussed, explained, re-explained, and viewed and re-viewed a thousand times over – the case in the US was a TRADEMARK case, not a copyright case. There has never been a copyright case on Osho’s works in any country in this world, as far as I have heard. Correct me if I’m mistaken here.
“It is said that because of this victory, all Osho discourses are free to download at oshoworld.com…”
There was no victory, because there was no copyright case being contested. The Osho discourses are free to download from OshoWorld.com because they took the time and effort to put them on their website, with a healthy disregard for the consequences, which from the looks of it at present, are non-existent in terms of any legal reaction from OIF. Simple as that.
You mention the many legal cases supposedly in the courts in India between OFI and OIF, but what are they?
I’ve haven’t heard of any.
“The evidence of thousands of Osho discourses are enough to prove that Osho was a Master, and it is the fundamental right of his disciples to Visit their Master´s Samadhi …”
Speaking a lot of discourses is not a proof that someone is a “Master” – with that reasoning, any university professor, campaigning politician, or proselytizing preacher could claim the same status.
But you take this flawed logic to your conclusion – which obviously is your pet ambition and non-stop rolling agenda – to ‘re-take the Samadhi’ as the inalienable right of all sannyasins, for devotional worship, and re-institute a Osho-centric devotional environment to the whole Pune complex, which you feel is wrongly missing in the present Resort package.
You may be right Shantam, but no one will ever listen to you in this, if you continue to embed your posts with so much information which has little regard for accuracy.
Start with the trademark case concerning the use of the word “Osho”. It took the Beatle’s Apple Records and the computer company Apple Corp 30 years of legal wars to finally settle their dispute over the trademark of the word “Apple”, although there is a vast difference between a pop music group and a spiritual visionary. Now they are both making a shitload of money on the new agreement through iTunes. It’s the same legally, but lightyears apart spiritually.
Yes, it’s like comparing apples and oshos.
if shantam trained as a lawyer and now practises as an astrologer…
does that mean
he predicted his case would fall apart at the first hurdle….
shantam… my neo veggy friend… leave him alone you guys , otherwise he might need to get out more… then what would we do…
but still bob.. u have a fine iscrutable chinese logic there… unconfucianing all the facts for us
ps spat news will be discussing platonic numena and phenomena as a way of increasing relevance to its readers..
xxx
ps kaveater cowshit please stay away
Reading Shantam’s badly composed post I am left with the image of a beggar picking over the remains of a feast, after the guest of honour left the building over twenty years before.
Oshobob has hit the nail on the head as far as pointing out the inaccuracies in Shantam’s statements. In a nutshell shoddy and a sign that Shantam is more interested in pushing his over-inflated opinions across rather than addressing an intelligent readership.
The post opens with a disclaimer: Let me say first off I have no personal affiliation with either of the two parties. This simply is not true, if you are familiar with Shantam’s ravings on this blog, which is confirmed by the statement….Osho Friends will win the cases. I myself wish them to win. Well, Shantam, if you have no affiliation with Osho Friends why do you want them to win? You are speaking through a hole in your head. Nothing new there.
Having been associated with Osho for 36 years none of these issues actually bears any relevance to my life. Osho repeated many times that his message was a silent one and therefore I conclude that none of these legal wranglings have anything to do with anything worthwhile, as far as a person’s inner life is concerned. Wise men leave behind in books what they cannot take with them when the time comes to leave this world. In other words, Osho’s words have nothing to do with the real deal.
In Shantam’s case we have a simple case of a man needing to give his life substance by fighting for a cause. A sad case of a man trying to raise a flag on a ship of fools. The sooner that ships drifts over the horizon and disappears the better.
interesting article in todays daily mail…….
hare-brained religious fanatic defrauds german social security system to spread gospel of mixed metaphors…
shantam singh, 42,,defrauded the german social while spending the day,not looking for work,as the authorities,including his mother had told him to,but rather sitting at his computer stuffing himself with cheap meat from lidl and aldi,and composing what the court heard was a series of appallingly offensive and often racist mixed metaphors tirading about the need for religious reform and the ushering in of the “new man”,while his mum cooked for him,did the dishes,washed his chuddies and wiped his botty, a court in nuremburg heard,today.
conducting his own defence,,shantam ,an unemployed lawyer ,claimed:
“when mango is falling from the tree of the ceo of religious corporation,master is delivering idlis and chapatis for the discourses”
before being told to sit down and shut up by the judge.
the case continues….
The jury is out, but opinion points to a life sentence.
shantam, looks like the cardinals have convened…
seems like your writ is wrangled, your tort is torqued, your case is clobbered…
there’s always the appeal process…
If there is no ‘samadhi’ in the resort as Jayesh and Amrito claim, then there is no fundamental right to visit a ‘samadhi’. Maybe that explains the recent denials of J&A
that Osho ever mentioned a samadhi. But that can be proven otherwise. Osho himself mentioned his own samadhi in talks to his close disciples.
Interesting point I found is when you run a ‘Meditation resort’, it will be hard to claim non profit status granted in the past for an ashram or commune.
The life and the courts does not move with public opinion, and who says people in the west have no lynching mentality.
I have not the illusion that my logic is to the point, is good enough to plead the case before the judge, my first and the foremost intention is to bring the organisational disputes in the open domain, When both the parties are cyclostyling Osho´s discourses for public consumption.
Even it may be the minority opinion, i feel, if you want to impress the world with Osho, do with your integrity, show to the world that organisation running in the name of Osho are different, are better, are transparent..
World is not burdened by the birth day celebration of the enlightened masters but by the disciples, who preach something else and practice something else…
anand,
when you have a samadhi,you say,
“this spot is more sacred than other places…”
getting there,being there,over other places,and/or having control over the location becomes important,vital,even….
it is important for you.
it is important for shantam.
so,like the jews and arabs in jerusalem
the hindus and mohammedans in ayodhya
and countless othesr the world over who fight over their “holiest of holy” places.
that is,you will fall into a territorial struggle,which every existing animal on this planet does,
but with the very human reason/rationalisation of “religion”, “”spiritual”energy”…..
that is fine.
kids play cops and robbers,
and cowboys and indians
grown ups play jihad.
sunni-asins versus oshi`ites…
enjoy……
Whether the case in the American court was copyright or Trademark is a secondary issue, the principle fact is few disciples who did not agree with the arbitrary decision of Osho Foundation; took the efforts, invested their time and money to oppose this and won the case.
What kind of people will take such efforts when most of the people fight only when their neighbour extend the boundary wall a little more in their property…
What kind of disciples, will go regularly to Pune courts to be present during the hearings, even when they are not living in Pune. I salute their efforts because in the end of the conflict, a new Osho organisational structure will take place.
21st century is not for the people who fight for principles and their masters values but belong to consumers, consumers of every kind .
Frank, have you taken your alter ego Anand out of Coma…???
I doubt whether it is a different Anand…
thanksgiving day in the states today.
what we have to be thankful for…
all of our kitchen utensils (see Marty, believe it or not, i actually read your posts…it’s not easy tho…excuse me, i have to go check the turkey in the oven….sorry…)
Shantam (for his indefatigable tenacity in the face of all seemingly insurmountable odds. now i know why the British employed the Sikhs as soldiers that would not run from the task in those dark waning years of the Empire. Bravo Shantam, and to all those who will not give up the good fight, even tho there is every good reason to give it up.)
Sannyas News (for having the audacity to provide a forum for all these views that seem to spin endlessly and ultimately go nowhere. somethin’ going nowhere ain’t worth nothin’, but, thank god, yes…it’s free.)
Frank, i don´t think it was a queen´s command to her subjects to go to some little Indian with long beard and take sannyas Initiation…
Sannyas Initiation…?? Majority of people in the west may think it is some kind of mental distortion..
Similarly majority of Indians think Osho´s kind of sannyas is a Shame to the ancient tradiion of Sannyas..
How you can indulge in sex and still be sannyasins..never heard, never seen. Sannyasins are suppose to indulge in sex only in the name of celibacy..!!
But onething is a universally establshied fact, follow the rules of the games..
If one becomes a disciple of an eastern master, the Master´s ashes become part of His Samadhi, and are reverened by the disciple..
though every one knows..ashes are ashes…
Only a small child who is just learning walking, will take the football in the hands..It is a joyful scene to see how the elder siblings tell him, ” Charlie..don´t hold the ball. Hit the ball ….hit..yess. yess like this…”
yes,frankanandstein is on the loose…
he used to be an identikit surrendered sannyasin,
but since i stuck the bolt in his neck and blasted him with 30,000 volts,he is turning into a ofi monster…
lock up your daughters/lawyers….
—result!!!
and thankful for….
the audacity of frank (for owning up to creating a bogus character “Anand”, and then have the unbridled chutzpah to bring the dude back for a reprise on JA News). now that’s baldacious.
Having been associated with Osho for 36 years none of these issues actually bears any relevance to my life….
It may be the case of familarity breeds contempt..but one thing is sure Lokesh…I will suffocate in your heaven, in your paradise, in your kind of wisdom…
One does not need to spend 36 years, few months of listening and hearing Osho is enough to feel that there are as many paths as there are types of human beings, broadly speaking there is not a single road leading to SILENCE..if that is the fucking price catch…
Shudra(hand worker), Brahmin(shrewd and scholarly) Vaisya( investment banker and bus ticket seller), Warriors( those who confront their wives rather than staying silent and being rewarded with 11 minutes of sex)…all have different ways, strategies, choices and dislikes…
yes i agree with all points of view—- but will it get you a decent shag…?.
……
bob… you have done well..
to domestically dance…its what we need more of as westerners …..
but gratefulness to the turkey b4 not after…then it has a chance to dance too…
Osho’s ashes! What a lot of old world bollocks! How can anyone who even had a small taste of the wonderful living presence that was Osho want to venerate and worship ashes? It is the anti-thesis of the sannyasin way. We are talking about a man who while alive loved to tell stories of monks who hid fireworks in each other’s clothing before being cremated. Why? Because pure laughter contains life’s essence. Oh yeah, don’t forget about the monk who burnt the Buddha statues in the temple on a cold night to keep warm…Osho loved that one.
Now we have misguided wallys getting their nappies in a twist about the old boys ashes. As I’ve said before on this site: Osho was cremated, so that he would not have to turn in his grave watching all the bullshit going down in his name. Take Osho’s ashes and throw them in the four directions where they belong.
then sorry is more fun too…
its bear hunting season in north america and there are dreadful stories coming out …
be inspired…dont be a turkey
a recent letter to our government departments
Dear Sir ,
I am sure you are by now aware that the vexed issue of unneccessary animal slaughter in the pursuit of facile fashion statements by the Army simply will not go away.
It is with this in mind that I am certain that the Queen and Prince Charles and Parliament itself are being held to ransom by the vested interest of the Old Guard in respect of the wearing of Brown Bear caps by the Queens Guards regiments.
The alternative is simple ,adopt faux fur bear cap ! Amazingly ,such intellectual vigour in an email, but please read on.
How should the fluffy~headed members of the Old Guard be convinced (or overruled if they stand their ground) in respect of the the unneccessary slaughter of these intelligent animals, who they then insist on wearing (dead) on their own fluffy headed heads?
The solution is very simple when it comes to these military governors and their political consorts.We should make it very clear that they are contravening the Public interest in their refusal to stop killing bears.by subjecting our beloved Majesty and the Royal Family to ridicule.This is nothing short of a treasonable offence!
And may I remind you that Britain is engaged in War at the moment, and that Treason is still a capital offence. Therefore those who sponsor and maintain Brown Bear slaughter, should be tried for Treason. When convicted, as they surely will be, they should be hung drawn and quartered and slung on top of a large toy teddy bear’s head outside Buckingham Palace for all tourists to laugh and gawp at.
Such is the destiny for all Brown Bear murder,and for the treachery and humiliation of our beloved and wildlife~loving Royal Family.
Go on lets all grow up..at least try to without obfuscation or prevarication… and stop this bear slaughter by those ‘in charge’ who philosophically and ethically are the equivalent of teenagers with an ASBO order, instead of being adults with a responsibilty. Otherwise animal activists will be forced to mercilessly subject the Queens Guards to traditional Native American ridicule, by b(e)aring all in public at every appearance, to them or their leading officers…..and that would make a them all proper royal Charlies.
All the best
oh, and merry non violent Royal Christmarse
Martyn Rule.
typo…
Rule Britannia
Shantam, you say: It may be the case of familarity breeds contempt. In your case i would not say that you are despicable, you are not, but contempt also implies scorn and I have to say that you are indeed worthy of any scorn that comes your way.
You are asking for it. Posting utter nonsense on a blog where some smart people show up for a laugh is really advertising that you want to be scorned. I see you as a rather normal human being with a particularly stubborn trait…rather like a donkey, although I doubt as well hung or you would find better employment than writing your boring shite on here.
Heeeee-haaaaw!
OSHO`S ASHES_believe me Lokesh. Osho has Himself asked for them to be preserved…
May be your scotish mind will say, ” He was under the influence of Narotics…”
Let it be…
Few people are addcited only to the living Masters. For these consumers of spirituality, Masters are kind of prostitutes..Spiritual hunger makes them drop their Ego like clothes…and wonder is afterwards they walk even with more Erect Ego…
Respectfully saying, no pros.but teachers, who offer private coaching to mediocre children of rich nations….
Shantam:
But onething is a universally establshied fact, follow the rules of the games..
If one becomes a disciple of an eastern master, the Master´s ashes become part of His Samadhi, and are reverened by the disciple..
though every one knows..ashes are ashes…
SD:
Thus, with one short paragraph, Shantam shows himself the most traditional of disciples of the most un-traditional of Masters…
And still has not the remotest clue of how he has shot himself right in the middle of his foot!
It will be a utter stupidity on my part if i write for you Lokesh, a 36 years Osho vetren on the path…
My senior, You are not my target reader.
but yes..you provide enough material as wood stock to burn the ink…
The twin soul of Lokesh, Satya Deva is also there..
Welcome Bro..
Do you show Ms. Meera your postings, SD?
May be she can do some corrections, add some valuable wisdom,which is not available in any book..
After all, people who can efford an army of LIVE coaches, must show some laborious wisdom. Bend it like Bechham kind of kicks and hug it like Amma kind of sweet nothings…
Tell me, Shantam, when you were, to paraphrase your words, ‘hanging around Osho compounds’, over two decades ago (‘back in the day’, as they say now) – how did you pass the time? What would you be doing with yourself all day, as the young man that you were?
How come you’ve ended up on both the worldly and spiritual seeker ‘scrapheap’, do you think, apparently good for only attempting to become some species of ‘faux politico’?
to point out a few pertinent historical things, appropo to the subjects of the day that may be of interest to all…
the stories of the zen fireworks cremation laugh, and the burning of the wooden Buddhas by the zen monk took place in China a thousand years ago and more…just to highlight the fact that these Chinese Zen guys did have a highly developed sense of humor which, yes, Lokesh, Osho did love – he repeated these stories many times over. they had performance art down pat way before yoko ono and the rest.
and to be noted for Martyn, talking about turkey and such…”mock” meat was developed in the Chinese Buddhist (Zen in particular) monasteries in the Tang and Song Dynasties (600-1000 CE) as a way to please their guests who were not vegetarian. Most of it was made from wheat gluten, which is known as “mian jin” in Chinese, meaning literally, “flour meat”.
Meant to replicate pork, beef, chicken, duck, and all the rest. Don’t think western veggie new-agers created this stuff, either physically or morally. China again in the lead. Tang Dynasty.
They also used ‘doufu’ (J. tofu), but it was the wheat gluten stuff that they really turned into an art of vegetarian cuisine. You can see it sold as “seitan” today in the West,, a Japanese word developed by the macrobiotics guy just last century. But all created on the mainland originally.
As i see with the Fielmann glasses, Osho is not just an untradional of a Master but a Master where traditions and modernity meets hands in hands…where Zen Sutras and Fuck jokes are woven together..
Osho is a Master who gave the most tradional names to the people who had the most meaningless names..
Please, go through the Photos of Osho Samadhi…
It was not made at the instuctions of Amma the Queen, as a debt repayment to India…
My Gawd, I almost got sucked in again…
Hah hah hah, you’re a hoo(t), you are, Shantam, a real, 24-carrot HOO(T)!!
Yes Shantam it is the same Anand, Frank let me loose for a day or so, for Thanksgiving.
I am still cruising on my boat on the West African coast now and only occasionally have internet access in some harbors. I am planning to sail up north the East coast and then over to Sri Lanka next.
Homework for you, Shantam:
Look up ‘iconoclast’ in your dictionary…
Oshobob, that was interesting.
Shantam; The twin soul of Lokesh, Satya Deva is also there..
Yeah, well birds of a feather etc. Hows things in the cuckoo’s nest ,Shantam? Is it lonely at the top…. out on a shakey limb. Above all don’t jah wobble.
Just stuffed my face with turkey and giblets(my apologies to P.M.)….so, to do a little catch up… Frank you crack me up…. what was the result of shantam’s trial? Did a coconut come down from osho heaven and crack open on shantam’s head… sudden, intense blows to the head sometimes result in a re-”programming” of the person. Quick, shantam- what is the answer to this question- the angle of the dangle is proportion the heat of the meat. What is it? A correct answer means you’ve attained enlightenment, a wrong answer means you need to start drinking heavily.
Three cheers for Lokesh…. Gobble Gobble… Gobble!!!!!…. P/M. Aren’t you one of those crazies who like to feed the deer during the winter time? A story from not to far back… In northern part in the state of connecticut, there were many little old ladies who would feed the deer during the winter years. This went on year after year, and the result was an out of control deer population… deer everywhere.. then one winter even with the little old ladies feeding the deer, there was still a food shortage, just not enough grass and bushes for the thousands of deer to eat(seems the little old ladies drew a line on how much of their food they should share with the deer). Now the deer started to die off from starvation… Those little old ladies just couldn’t bare to watch their favorite deer die a slow death so they called on the government to do something… That they did, they drew a lottery to sell deer hunting permits at a fantastically high price, the result was thousands of deer were shot and the government had a belly full of cash their treasury….. Thank “god” for little old ladies!!
Oshobob: Then how to explain away theTibetan “Buddhists” eating meat? Climate in Tibet prevents fruits and veggies being grown perhaps? They can always grow potatoes and celeriac, and mushrooms.. or are they macrobiotic and just won’t. don’t you worry, animals know when they are being killed for food… I do oppose indiscriminate, for “sport” hunting of animals…. to cull a herd to kept the herd healthy and not starving is an exception.
Iconoclast…Seems like Holocaust…
Iconocaust means “destruction of icons,” or from the Greek, “eikon klao” which simply means, “broken image..
One who attacks and seeks to overthrow traditional or popular ideas or institutions.
One who destroys sacred religious images.
WORD HISTORY An iconoclast can be unpleasant company, but at least the modern iconoclast only attacks such things as ideas and institutions. The original iconoclasts destroyed countless works of art. Eikonoklastēs, the ancestor of our word, was first formed in Medieval Greek from the elements eikōn, “image, likeness,” and -klastēs, “breaker,” from klān, “to break.” The images referred to by the word are religious images, which were the subject of controversy among Christians of the Byzantine Empire in the 8th and 9th centuries, when iconoclasm was at its height. In addition to destroying many sculptures and paintings, those opposed to images attempted to have them barred from display and veneration. During the Protestant Reformation images in churches were again felt to be idolatrous and were once more banned and destroyed. It is around this time that iconoclast, the descendant of the Greek word, is first recorded in English (1641), with reference to the Byzantine iconoclasts. In the 19th century iconoclast took on the secular sense that it has today, as in “Kant was the great iconoclast” (James Martineau).
(answers.com)
PRINCE PHILIP’S – A LIFE IN GAFFES
He tells Indian businessman Atul Patel ‘There’s a lot of your family in tonight’ at a 400-strong Buckingham Palace reception for British Indians in October last year.
Navy sea cadet instructor Elizabeth Rendle, 24, who works in a bar was asked ‘Is it a strip club?’ by the Prince. She said: ‘It was a joke and I didn’t take any offence,’ after the blunder in Exeter, Devon, in March.
A Buckingham Palace guest with a goatee who told Prince Philip he was a designer got the sharp response: ‘Well, you didn’t design your beard too well, did you?’ in July last year.
Prince Philip surprised Aborigines in Australia by asking ‘Do you still throw spears at each other?’ during a state visit in March 2002. Cultural park manager William Brim replied: ‘No, we don’t do that any more.’
A Scottish driving instructor was asked in 1995: ‘How do you keep the natives off the booze long enough to pass the test?’
When visiting Hungary in 1993 he said to a resident Briton: ‘You can’t have been here long – you haven’t got a pot belly.’
When visiting the Welsh Assembly he offended a group from the British Deaf Association in May 1999. He pointed to a band they were standing near and said: ‘Deaf? If you are near there, no wonder you are deaf.’
British students in China were told during a state visit in 1986: ‘If you stay here much longer you will all be slitty-eyed’.
He said to a student travelling across Papua New Guinea in 1998: ‘You managed not to get eaten then?’
Mr. Philip and His kind of people mostly in Gulf states are the right target for those who want to be ICNOCLAST….
I hope 2012, if it is an era of new humanity…such junk yard institutions and icons will finally find their place.. in the graveyard of History…
Shantam, would you agree that Osho spoke many times against “this rotten society” and its “old, corrupt religions” with their hypocritical priests and empty rituals?
And here’s you, purveying what simply amounts to more of the same!
Btw, here’s what my dictionary says about an ‘iconoclast:’:
A breaker of images, esp. one…who attacked the worship of images during the 8th and 9th centuries.
An assailant or despiser of established practices.
The point is, elevating ‘Relics of Osho’, including his bodily remains, into a significant role at any future ‘Osho Ashram’, however ‘sincere’ might be the motivation at the start, is absolutely guaranteed to degenerate – and quickly – into the sort of superstitious nonsense generated by the very institutions Osho used to criticise so heavily.
It’s just the same old mind, unable to see beyond its same old bullshine sentiment.
Again, I ask, what WERE you up to in those ‘Osho Compounds’ when he was alive?!
And re your piece on Prince Philip…
hah hah hah!
Maybe you’ve found a worthy opponent, at last!
bubbie .. generally speaking though i havent got a clue about what i’m talking about….
if the wolf and cougar hadnt been hunted to extinction the deer wouldn’t have shitferbrains out shooting and getting their orgasms confused…not that the deer prefers to be eaten by anyone or anything… its just that i prefer the idea of cougars in the forest to keep me on my toes when i go picknicking… instead of lardarsed plebs who are welcome to shoot each other by accident… and have their kids cry all the way to the gun shop…
its my form of Shariars spirituality… next time you are in a supermarket see how many people you would want to save from another global war….. (cynical nahhh.. just never got enough love… like the pleb-prol ugly faced hunters )
well bubbs, regarding Tibet and food,
i would say,
yeah, the climate is a major factor — 15,000 feet above sea level on what called’s the Qinghai Plateau does not bode well for agriculture as most people know it. Very harsh conditions, for food growing as well as for people. Also, the isolation from other places surrounding it that could provide their own supplies — the entire Himalayas on the south border, the desolate Tarim Basin on the north, only the Sichuan area of China to the east, and the Kashmir/Himachal Pradesh area to the west, both highly mountainous and diffucult to travel. The best way to really understand Tibet is to get a topo map and just look at it. Daunting, to say the least. Rough terrain. Very cold, snowy, icy.
Osho talked about how they developed the “shivering” technique just to stay a bit warmer. Also, barley grows well in harsher climates,and is grown up there–the Tibetans are well known for making and drinking their beer brews, and not in small quantities. Those low bullfrog chants you hear emanating from the temples are as much a product of the alkie hootch that those dudes have been swilling all night long, than of any tantra meditation strategy that the westerners so romantically ascribe to them. Groaning from the hangover might be more like it.
Also, they are big on the dairy that they can manage –those hairy yaks that thrive in the cold, produce not only meat for the Tibetans, but also the milk that mostly is made into various drinks, kefir, and yogurts.
Another big factor in the meat eating story – one that most modern people take for granted – is the fact that the massive increase in meat eating in the world in the last hundred years, is directly attributable to the development of refrigeration technology. Before 1930, most people all over the world ate very little meat in proportion to plant based food. Now that has changed dramatically, unfortunately for the animals being used for food. In Tibet, they always have had a on-demand natural freeze-box — in fact, they LIVED in it! Result, meat was preserved much easier, and for no cost too. So, they developed a meat eating/dairy culture.
Then, there’s the Mongolian influence of meat eating, which came in with the Ghengis Khan era of tributory status(ca. 1300) of Tibet to Mongolia and heavy influence of Mongolian lama-based Buddhism in the area. Most people are unaware that it was the Mongolians who created the Dalai Lama system at that time, for a way to maintain political control of their southern buddies – the word “dalai lama” itself is pure Mongolian, meaning “ocean of wisdom”.
So, when you see Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche drunk as a skunk, or the Dalai Lama chomping on some beef tenderloin fillets, don’t feel too surprised, it’s part of their long, long cultural tradition.
When I go to the supermarket, I see lil old gran ma’s, little old shantam’s and beer-bellied old rednecks– yes, P.M. who is worthy of being saved from another global(nuclear) war? It’s true for every clique…nature produces an astonishingly high number of nimrods!!! Who will be left to do the menial work or work on Wall Street?
I’ve been up at the temple of the tooth in Kandi, Sri lanka…all very holy, circumnambulating the sacred tooth which is aparently big enough to not look out of place in a mamoth’s mouth. All relics are human mumbo-jumbo and i don’t give a flying fuck what instructions Osho gave to do with his remains…what a load of codswallop. Something that sticks in my mind that the old boy once said…’The most stupid thing a human being can do is be concerned about how they will be remembered when they are dead’ I agree wholeheartedly. So I conclude the holy ashes are for the devotees…they can have them. It is time to break free from all this conditioned emotional and sentimental crap that gets pawned off as being spiritual…because it isn’t…it’s a lot of hollow shite that can only satisfy the brain dead.
Yeah, I was just wondering how eskimos go about eating a balanced diet….not much salad in the igloo garden…pass the candles, I’ve got a serious bout of the munchies.
SD; when you want to see the degredation of the sannyas…
by chance i came across a page at facebook-
http://www.facebook.com/#!/notes/shekhar-moolchandani/pioneers-of-sannyas-business/164346526937508
Oshobob— one would think with the evolution of humans from apes, we would know better than to plant roots on such inhospitable places.. how about those morons living on the arctic circle… enema bags must go for a premium… talk about being STUCK or attached… attachment is truly a disease… also, those morons living on the Bengali coast line.. how many died from the last cyclone? 200,000? the nimrods we have here in the states live in the bay area, flood plains, and desert south west… not to mention those who live in the forest without protecting themselves from forest fires.. or “tornado alley”, living in trailers or mobile homes… It’s obvious we’re too cheap and greedy and stupid to do the best we can to protect our lives… oh yeah, I forgot to mention the Indonesians….. VIA LA NIMRODS!!!!
Bob, drinking hooch is the last thing to do in a cold climate… and hot climate
I thought the freezer was developed by a scottsman, so he could have ice cubes for his scotch…. they got tired of drinking warm scotch neat.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/Indian-scientists-worst-offenders-at-faking-research/H1-Article1-631092.aspx..
It is not just the spiritual business, even in Science…Indians are the best (lol)
Truth be told, Scots never call whisky Scotch and when I drink it I usually take it straight without ice. I was in my forties by the time I discovered the magic of single malt whisky. The only time I really get into it is when I catch a cold. It does nothing to cure a cold but it puts you in a great space where having a cold seems very superflouous. Last year a cousin from up north presented me with a bottle of amber magic which I shared with a couple of Basque friends who have since then been trying to get to to order a cragte of the stuff.
Now that I think about it I would not mind a wee hit right now. There is a storm raging outside….in other words perfect whisky weather…och aye!
PS I also enjoy smoking DMT.
http://www.wholebodycures.com/airport_x-ray_scanners.html
Facebook no good to me, Shantam, I’m not on it (and likely never will be).
and to bring the story into that much loved ‘here and now’ that we all cherish so much…
martyn, i have my fake-fur North Chinese/Manchurian/Korean style winter hat with ear flaps that I bought at the Target store here in states for $6.99 five years ago — MADE IN CHINA…100% Polyester!
and…
the Chinese have brought vast improvements to all of Tibet in the last 50 years, including major transportation, electricity, and agriculture advances, which translates into more standard food products into the area. One of positive results of the dreaded “Chinese control” of Tibet could very well be the movement to a more balanced, nutritious, and vegetarian diet for the people. Rice, vegetables, fruits, nuts, wheat products, etc. that they can now get, store, and cook easily. Life moves in mysterious ways, no?
Unfortunately though, Bob, from what I’ve heard, many Tibetans will probably be too poor to be able to afford this lovely new food, the incoming Chinese monopolising the jobs as well as throttling the religion and torturing its practitioners.
If it’s so great, how come so many Tibetans have chosen exile?
Basically, the Tibet saga is just another example of ‘The West taking over the East’, isn’t it (the West in this case happening to be China, now very much of the Western intellectual materialist culture)?
Very similar to our own, western world conquest of the previous several centuries….
Driven, essentially, by greed, not the will to ‘do good’…Although no doubt brimming with self-important ideas about how much ‘good’ they’re doing…
And no, I don’t idealise Tibet either, but it doesn’t all look good at all to me….
All of those fruits and vegetables with a dash of lead, arsenic, and a little bit of heavier metals… now that’s what I call pinko progress…bob and lokesh… never mind the airport x-rays, if you bought anything from china in the last 15 years, send it to a lab to be tested for toxins… same with fruits and veggies from mexico… dangerous shit they produce, i’ll take a dash of x-rays(equivalent to 2-3 minutes on a plane at 30,00feet) than risk my colon disintegrating from eating tainted tomatoes or drinking from lead tainted coffee cup….(SEE: Warner Bros. superhero glasses for kids lead tainted; 1,000x greater than safe level, Nov.18, 2010)
The west taking over the east; actually it’s east taking over the west- Deng Xiao Peng, in the arly 1990′s gave a speech where he said China would use the West’s own game against them… capitalism of course… these commie fuckers had plans for us… not to say they aren’t/weren’t corrupt, Peng knew the greed of westerners, the west took the bait… even though not one foreign company owns 50% or more(51% Chinese owned) of their own company corporations figure what’s 49% of a1.3 billion person market = potential profits greater than Europe. A price worth paying not to own most of one’s own company… huge profits… now china… owns most of the U.S.’s debt, probably that of Europe as well.. much of Africa, …. China’s the “Big Boss Man”, now. it explains the Dalai Lama’s 50 years of failed policy(as I have posted many a time). all of his pro-democracy freedom loving capitalists bailed out on him when they saw the Chinese door open. This chinese take over shows how people will ingest just about anything if it’s cheap enough to buy… the masses are worse than swine…. as stated above regarding living in the worst places imaginable…. Go Commie Pinko Chinks- Go!!!! Hoorah!!!
When this “Capitalization” of China got going, I heard repeatedly, mostly on these business news channels, that “capitalism will help facilitate democracy” in China…. bunch of horseshit!!! Capitalists will sell their own mother to a pimp if it meant big money!! Just looking at the U.S.”s past dealings with totalitarian regimes…. especially in Central America… Vietnam in the 1950′s and ’60′s …the Philippines, Imelda Marcos’ famous shoe collection… click your heals girl and you’ll be back in Manila… now on to India.
Deng Xiaoping was his name Bubbs.
Chinese style, surname comes first, then personal name.
Deng (pronounced ‘dung’) was a crafty little man indeed. who knew his business well. brokered China into the ‘global community’ with a wicked combination of high-level finesse coupled with street savvy smarts.
Deng, along with Premier Zhou Enlai, was groomed in France as a young man by the communists there to fulfill his role in China.
But, you are right about China…in fact, more and more people are coming to see that China hold the reins to more control of the world today than you might want to admit to (at least, if you’re not Chinese).
Most of the Osho sannyasins, like Satya Deva, are part of the bleeding heart liberal standard issue mind-set of Bad Chinese/Good Tibetans. Pathetic really.
So inaccurate too. These types of people are simply repeating western media propaganda articles on the subject. And Hollywood movie claptrap.
SD, you ask, if things are so good in Tibet, why are there so many exiles? First, I never said things were so good in Tibet, just that “vast improvements” have been made in the last 50 years. And they have. Take literacy for one, which has increased tremendously. Child mortality, which has decreased tremendously.
And there are not so many exiles. The number usually given is about 100,000 Tibetans living outside of Tibet. There are probably over 6 million ethnic Tibetans in China, which includes the provinces of Tibet, Sichuan, Gansu, Qinghai, and Yunnan. So, to put it in perspective, for every political or economic refugee, “exiled”, there are a matching 60 Tibetans living in China. And you, SD, have never heard their story. You only hear the foul-mouth bitching extreme minority ONE that the western media picks ups and broadcasts their rantings, irregardless of any sourced truth to the match the complaint. They’ll tell you anything you want to hear, and make the rest up, if need be.
It’s said about 90,000 left in the ’50′s during the initial upheaval, so most of the young and middle-aged “exiles” you base you views on, are probably children and grandchildren of the original crowd – most of those ended up in India, Dharamsala to be specific, never having lived at all in Tibet, for the most part. A political exile or their offspring are the absolute worst people in the world to try to gather truthful information about their home country from. After a while, they don’t even know what they’re talking about from first hand experience…they learn it from what they read and hear on TV, just like you.
The Chinese are “throttling the religion and torturing its practitioners.” What a laugh. The Chinese, with the ethnic Tibetans, are actively supporting the Buddhist religious superstructure, basically, because the tourist trade, which is the number one revenue maker for Tibet at present, consists of the temples and trappings of this Buddhist religion. Same goes for mainland China, where the Zen temples are being reconstructed.
The Chinese are very practical people, and very experienced too. Too bad the bulk of the Old Guard Osho sannyasins are so backward in their views on this subject – maybe it’s just jealousy, who knows. A highly successful commune of the most populous nation on Earth, with a religious basis in Taoism, Zen, and Nature, and a Marketplace Mentality that is in the lead of the world.
Wasn’t this the vision for Osho’s “New Man”?
Well…that was all very educational and the result is that I will be staying well clear of Chinkbet radioactive tomatoes.
Meanwhile, in Haiti, traffic is so gridlocked that people being transported to hospital with cholera, which can kill you in four hours, are dying in the traffic jams.
And I think to myself, what a wonderful world. I wonder if Louis Armstrong ever had cholera. Cancel my subscription to the ressurection.
Oshobob:
The Chinese are “throttling the religion and torturing its practitioners.” What a laugh. The Chinese, with the ethnic Tibetans, are actively supporting the Buddhist religious superstructure, basically, because the tourist trade, which is the number one revenue maker for Tibet at present, consists of the temples and trappings of this Buddhist religion. Same goes for mainland China, where the Zen temples are being reconstructed
SD:
The “laugh” is on you, I’m afraid, bob…Or, rather, the “screams of pain”…
You clearly like to discount the many stories of mistreatment and torture of monks and nuns, which continue right up to the present day.
And you clearly mistake a ‘cosmetic’ improvements, eg to buildings (those that are left – very many were destroyed, of course), you know, ‘tarting them up’, rather like a sort of ‘living museum’, for a genuine, living religious culture, untramelled by the powers-that-be.
lokesh,
many people have wondered how buddha`s tooth ended up in kandi.
well,stephen batchelor the noted buddhist scholar has recently done some intriguing research…
apparently,it dates back to when buddha was travelling down there.
it seems he was sitting in a bar in kandi,minding his own business,enjoying a bag of pork scratchings,and a pint of chang,with some of his mates,when a bunch of rowdy scotsmen arrived,and pretty soon things started to kick off.buddha tried to intervene and calm things down,but on account of his shaved head and big belly,he was taken for just another guy looking for aggro.
he tried to stare out one of the jocks who snarled
“are ye lookin at me or chewin` a brick?
either way ye gonnae lose some fockin` teeth”
before delivering a glasgow kiss right in buddha`s chops….
the cleaner found his teeth on the floor the next morning and took them down the temple…
Bubbie – you perhaps mistake my point re ‘west taking over the east’ , which is happening, or rather has happened, in the sense of the dominant worlwide culture having become ‘western’. Hence, China is no longer essentially of the East, it’s now more or less ‘pure West’!
So that Bob’s comment re China’s ‘base culture’ (Taoism etc.) is all rather irrelevant, gratuitous nonsense. It’s being – probably already has been – simply steamrollered out of existence by the unstoppable juggernaut of western-type indistrial/technology-driven capitalism.
The right soil for Osho’s New Man? Oh yeah?!! Pull the other one, Bob….
The right soil for Osho’s New Man?
Òsho´s new Man..
One apple gadget with all the discourses inside..
One partner, one extra tyre like partner,,
Middle level job or the inheritance..
Some Meditation,Some Yoga, some Tantra massge, some sun and sand…
and when soul is still not still..
A bit of Satsang with daddy figure and mAmA´s pet on the head…
New man is here..Self sufficient seeker beyond all the grips of gravitation….
Please note, Bob, here’s what I actually wrote, above, re the Chinese expansion into Tibet:
“Driven, essentially, by greed, not the will to ‘do good’…Although no doubt brimming with self-important ideas about how much ‘good’ they’re doing…
And no, I don’t idealise Tibet either, but it doesn’t all look good at all to me….”
Very easy to pigeon-hole anyone who disagrees with you on this issue as “bleeding heart liberal”, but you might at least bother to read what people say.
Perhaps you’d have likewise denigrated those who opposed similar invasions and cultural destructions, similar trampling over ancient cultures that has long characterised our ‘simply wonderful’ western pseudo-civilisation…
Africa, India, American Indians, Maoris, Aborigines…
The western way is violence, Tibet – despite any benefits of ‘modernisation’ – has been violated. Do you really see the colonising Chinese as heroic, when they are the ones enjoying most of the benefits?!
They’re there to exploit Tibet’s natural resources, not for the good of the Tibetans, same as any conquering nation down through the ages.
All just bullshine as far as finding the Truth goes….
Now, Shantam, there’s a post you can twist and use for your own little agenda….
yes but will any of this impress the girls at the next shagathon?
its appalling that one should have to discuss tibet and chinese fur production in order to get a decent shag.I mean my knowledge doesnt stretch very far at the best of times , and i often struggle with .”.i remember osho saying ”… so as to get my leg over…
and now all of this and that
i think its about time we all got back to basics and followed our masters express and clear wishes which he clearly left expressly to …er uhm …
well you know what i mean….
Shantam:
Òsho´s new Man..
One apple gadget with all the discourses inside..
One partner, one extra tyre like partner,,
Middle level job or the inheritance..
Some Meditation,Some Yoga, some Tantra massge, some sun and sand…
and when soul is still not still..
A bit of Satsang with daddy figure and mAmA´s pet on the head…
New man is here..Self sufficient seeker beyond all the grips of gravitation….
SD:
And you, Shantam…Are you much different?
Unemployed, living off the State of a foreign land – not even bothering to meditate (shock/horror!), it would seem …
Unless, of course, we count your amblings around random churches – for a ‘touch’ of, you know, ‘spiritual consolation’…
But, so what? You’re standing right in the front line of the Greatest Colonial/Religious Conflict of the Age – as a Prime Mover indeed! Your Life therefore is truly Imbued with High, with Deep Significance, Sir!
(Unless, of course, you’re simply fooling yourself)….
The Western way is Violence…and therefore the star of the East got the bullet on the back by the run away soldiers..
who are very much willing to come back with the Strecher…
God bless the west…and the interfarance..
But Sir, thousands of other travelling monks and nuns from India never got the bullet but a bio cotton bag full with dollars and Euros..
West is not that violent, i think?
Yes..west is very accomodating if you accept its superiority and serve them like a Kerala Nurse… Philippino Aya…
If you try to be Osho, on the way to conquer and impress the west with run away soldiers with Comisch names, you get a bullet in the head…
Good bye…
you’ve never been to China, Satya Deva, so you have no first hand experience of the country and its people.
second hand belief of “stories” of others is simply not the Osho Way. yo or no?
Frank, thanks for clearing up the Buddha’s tooth enigma for me. My conclussion is that they were probably Celtic supporters. Those papist bastards are always up for a bit of Buddha bashing. As a matter of fact, it was those very same hooligans who are responsible for the saying, ‘If you meet the Buddha on the path kill him.’
I was in China a few months back. Shanghai is very noisy, the city’s inhabitants rude and there is rubbish piled up beside brand.new skyscrapers. Enter the dragon and the yellow peril and not a Tibetan monk in sight. Local religion based in object proliferation, bad teeth and smoking a lot of fags.
Lokesh, but you were the guy who tried pass yourself off as working in the British Beijing Embassy a few months ago, and then owned up to your lie when you were exposed. Now its Shanghai, is it?
Credibility, my friend, credibility….
Maybe we should look a little deeper into this “Scottish” story of yours. Could be a load of bunk too.
Bob, i was thinking the whole day about your true love affair with China..It is just amazing the way you describe Chinneese culture and as you said, you have no blood relation with China.. Neither father nor the son(am i right?)
Sometime i want to meet a wstern sannyasin too, who has spend years in India and can describe the cutlural linguistic and historical delicacies…
May be Osho was feeding too much ready made stories… A typical case, when hard working father earns the riches and kids enjoy till their childhood ends..at the age of 65, 75 or above….
“Local religion based in object proliferation, bad teeth and smoking a lot of fags.”
that is pretty close to the truth, the teeth part probably exagerated, but the fag smoking is definitely big by the men all over China. spitting too.
In two years time, the much awaited 2012, when White house will be free from “The One”, Mr. Obama, new aggresive white President will make the heat rise between China and India..
Some conflict between 45 percent of the world poplulation confined in two countires is good for American self interests….
there is a little known school of aggressive haiku writers who have informed chinese thought for centuries
you could even write your own in 17 syllables
in three phrases of 5, 7, and 5 moras(syllables) respectively.
wandering streets
puppy dog wagging tails in joy
thinking ..lunchtime.
by
Basho (Over the Heado)
peking about 12.30…till 3 pm
classic marty…
would you like to translate that gibberish for all the rest of us “speckled goats from albania…?”
excuse me everyone but in terms of relevance and synchronicity… this just appeared in my facebook…..
it covers everything from bears to maoists and india…
you couldnt make it up if you tried…
http://www.internationalanimalrescue.org/news/2010/401/Maoist+threats+lead+to+emergency+bear+evacuation.html
even if you try to be abstruse here on sunpatnews… life just joins up the dots for you….
the guy unloading the bears is identified as “Dr. Arun”, but he looks a lot browner than our swamji arun, …or, is that one of the brown bears dressed as a south indian dude, dancing to the video cams at the scene…and where are the”Maoists”…are they hiding somewhere in background, ….hey, isn’t that Headley and some of the “Bhaktal brothers” up there on that truck too….oy vay!
you can learn a lot about chinese culture in betting shops….
walk past anybetting shop anywhere in the uk and there will be a chinaman or few coming out with his betting slip,smoking a fag…..
they are reliable customers down in the peep shows and strip joints of soho,too,i hear…..
and if you want to know what boiled body parts of uneateable animals smell like,check out chinatown…..
lokesh,
that`s what i hear.
it is not wise to try to convince a celtic fan that his ego is in fact,a false construct based on ignorance….
especially after a few bottles of the old buckfast tonic wine….
Oshobob…you got me. I’m actually a Russian butch lesbian, rangers supporter, advaita vedantist heroin junkie.
Oh yeah, and a pathological liar.
frank, that reminds me of professor thompson, the animal body parts cooking thing…why don’t you guys bring Tony back for some posts…he was a wine connosier too, wasn’t he….?
Lokesh, you’re an intelligent man, but you do have a tendency to lie a bit….though not pathological, that’s going too far…
oshobob:
you’ve never been to China, Satya Deva, so you have no first hand experience of the country and its people.
second hand belief of “stories” of others is simply not the Osho Way. yo or no?
SD:
Oh yeah? So why should anyone necessarily believe you?
From how you come across on here it seems you have your own agenda to put across, Bob…
You know – we always see what we’re looking for…
Wonder whether you’ve been to Tibet as well…
And if so, whether you managed to escape the apparently rather severe restrictions on where tourists should go, or who they should talk to – and about which subjects….
spelling errors….sorry…
connoisseur
croissant
spelling errors….sorry
connoisseur
croissant
btw, SD, you’re a good speller. i don’t think i’ve ever seen an error yet in your posts.
welcome to social media here’s noam chomsky on cancer and bombing of iraq…
http://www.zcommunications.org/wikileaks-and-coverage-in-press-by-noam-chomsky
The relevant stats for above vid :
http://www.medialens.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5:beyond-hiroshima-the-non-reporting-of-fallujahs-cancer-catastrophe&catid=1:alerts&Itemid=34
SD:
Oh yeah? So why should anyone necessarily believe you?
bob – i wouldn’t expect anyone to.
From how you come across on here it seems you have your own agenda to put across, Bob…
bob – no agenda, just trying to see the truth thru all the lies.
You know – we always see what we’re looking for…
bob – see above.
Wonder whether you’ve been to Tibet as well…
bob – yes and no. the current political boundary of the ‘Tibet Autonomous Region’ in China is only about half to one third of the traditional area of the Tibetan people, which includes major parts of the provinces of Qinghai, Gansu, Yunnan, and Sichuan. I have not been to TAR, but have been to Sichuan.
And if so, whether you managed to escape the apparently rather severe restrictions on where tourists should go, or who they should talk to – and about which subjects….
bob – “apparently” ? i guess that means you’ve never been there. any tourist going to Tibet is not going to talk to any Tibetan, period, restrictions or not – they don’t speak English, and the tourists don’t speak Chinese or Tibetan. what talk needs to be restricted?
welcome to the planet..
if you are one of those sannyassins who thinks conversation should be meditatively limited to the wonderful world of osho weekends at holistic shagathons then try this instead.. its free education…and doesnt involve a robe or jumping up and down to find truth…
http://killinghope.org/
http://www.zcommunications.org/us-role-in-haiti-destruction-by-noam-chomsky
Killing Hope: US Military and CIA
Interventions Since World War II.
If you flip over the rock of American foreign policy of the past century, this is what crawls out…
invasions … bombings … overthrowing governments …
occupations … suppressing movements for social change …
assassinating political leaders … perverting elections …
manipulating labor unions … manufacturing “news” …
economic and political sanctions … death squads …
torture … biological warfare … depleted uranium …
drug trafficking … mercenaries …
It’s not a pretty picture.
It is enough to give imperialism a bad name….
In this list of doing the great jobs…
As a sannyasin one thing i can relate to, as
… suppressing movements for social change …
…..SUPPRESSING MOVEMENTS FOR SOCIAL CHANGE…
i know shantam how you feel… perhaps if we all got a pillow and shared our feelings.. then all the nasty stuff will go away….
manufacturing “news”
Osho is one of the most profolic author of our time.
Osho´s whole emphasis is on medittation!!!
So what…1008 other people are saying doing and teaching the same…WHy to bother if one out of these thousand dies..Okay… Leaves the body…
But Sir, Osho is different..He is more than a medittaion teacher, He is Enlightend…..
OK..Shantam Boy..Osho is enlightend..so are 1008 others around the world and in his own country…..
World will always remain at peace…
American Maxim seems to be…Grow and prosper but not become taller than US in A.
And more over…leave the church or go to hell but on the earth..don´t try to bring something better than GOD, BIBLE AND JESUS…
Where is Rajneesh Bible and the author?
the sum total of my education in chinese culture was for many years limited to knowledge of the story of the chinaman who had constipation…
he went to the doctor and asked for some pills.
the doc gave him a pill,and said:come back tommorow and see if there has been any movement.
next day,the chinaman comes back.
the doc asks him,”have you had any bowel movement,have you moved yet?
“no.no move” responds the chinaman
so the doc gives him three pills
“that should do it,they are super strength”
next day the chinaman comes back
“has there been any movement,have you moved?”
“no, no move,no move”
the doctor is a little surprised at the failure of his medicine and proceeds to prescribe a whole bottle of the pills.
the next day,the chinaman comes back
again the doc asks him
“so,now,have you moved?”
the chinaman replies
“no,tommorow move. house full of shit”
Oshobob, here is how it breaks down.
If the truth is what is needed I will supply it to the best of my ability…I can be brutally honest.
When it comes to entertainment…which this blog represents for me…I will tell a string of whoppers if I think it makes better reading than the truth. I mean this is Sannyas News afterall. I mean to say, Osho was a master storyteller and he told a few whoppers in his time and good for him. He was, amongst other things, an extremely entertaining man who knew that it was okay to embellish a story by making a few things up along the way.
Did I ever tell you about the times I met Osho when he was astral travelling? No joke. This really did happen. I swear on…on..on..Osho’s ashes. Is nothing sacred anymore?
Some people speak too much and exagerate for the sake of ego fulfilment and publicity.
were all on the road to
en-LIE-tenment….
frank….
thats enough acrosticism
have u thought of a weekly crossword for snews …??
Unemployed, living off the State of a foreign land – not even bothering to meditate (shock/horror!), it would seem …SD
I work half day, and few hours in a week without the wage.
When 10% of the native German speaking people are unemployed, i have told to the employment office, ” My coming here in Germany has very emotional reasons. I am willing to do any job, but i will prefer that some young German gets that job, whose future can be built on that job,
My self worth does not depend upon the work i do. And yes..one thing i assure you, ” If some bad times fall upon the land, it goes to War etc. I will still be here. And inbetween, i will find my way how to share back with the society.
and still i am available for any job at any time.
SO i have my half day of work..
May be it will land in your mind, that money and survival is not a big theme in this time. Emotional commitment to some cause is what matters.
It is a 65 minutes of domestic flight to UK. One year of LL.M or M. BA and i can snatch a good job, but than to live in a Monarchy….No Sir..the idea suffocates me…
And now is the point…
How you know, whether i meditate or not?
I will not say anything about this, but i am sure, there is not a single Bloody criteria to find out whether someone meditates or not.
And if there is some Laboratory test…Let me stand near your Spiritual guardian Ms Meera for this test…You can also join…
Results can be quite amazing…
ANd secondly let us make a random survey…15 people do meditate out of 30 for a period of one year.
Can you find out with their talk,walk and gestures, which 15 were not meditating…
Where ever we go. We carry our perception with…And this perosnal and collective perception feels at ease with the similar clones…
This is one of the reason city of 5. 5 million people don´t think 17, Koregaon park is a place for meditaion and i bet with hand on my Chest..There is no other place better than this…and tell you factually..since it is resort…it has even more possibilty of meditation…
And i can bet you..if you need..i borrow you the amount to travel to India.. Spend 15 days at any ashram of your choice..and similar time at Pune Ashram…Only condition is in the case of former..no personal Master should be there because this creates emotional apathy or empathy…
Ashrams just with participants….
Shantam:
Emotional commitment to some cause is what matters.
SD:
That’s again your delusion, Shantam, you’re mistaking (almost certainly unexamined) emotion for love, methinks…
Or, it might simply indicate yet again that you’re not really a meditator, just another unconsciously emotionally-driven entity!
And you know, it’s blindingly obvious you don’t meditate – meaning you don’t practise awareness-in-the-moment (I’m not confining the term to mere techniques, they’re just the ‘primary school’ stuff).
If you did, I doubt you could continually come up with the bullshine you like to spout, there’d be a lot more evidence of real intelligence in there (not Masters Degree bullshine, that impresses no one around here).
Still, full marks for not confusing self-worth (or anyone’s worth) with how you (or they) make a living. Not bad for an Indian from your background!
(Genuine comment, Shantam!)
This is the perception again…SD
When you and your kind of people meditate and are aware in the moment and all the hugging and counselling –and still to some one like me it gives the impression…. cabbage and Potatos are also not less meditators..
If you go to the farmers market tomorrow.. you can see how the vegetables are sitting in utter silence of the moment in the freezing whether…
Shantam has been spotted on street corners soliciting…he is a lawyer afterall.
Chinmaya: Some people speak too much and exagerate for the sake of ego fulfilment and publicity.
Yes this is true, so do us a favour and go back to sleep.
Lokesh, how you know Chinmaya´s comment was directed towards you?
His little nugget, ” Some people speak too much and exagerate for the sake of ego fulfilment and publicity”
can be for Me too..Ask SD..he will give the evidence..it is not Lokesh, it is Shantam..
But you know and i know and many readers know…
Chinmaya:
Some people speak too much and exagerate for the sake of ego fulfilment and publicity.
SD:
Thank God for such as this fellow who knows just how ‘sacred’ a space this ‘Sannyas News’ Blog is.
Several contributors here – most with Indian-sounding names – need to heed his words and not only that, but remember them, every moment, of every day they are fortunate enough to draw their very breaths…
Nothing less will do if we are to make a concerted effort to save this Place from the Devil Himself.
Shantam:
When you and your kind of people meditate and are aware in the moment and all the hugging and counselling….
SD:
“You and your kind of people” – meaning what, precisely, please? A Blogging Lawyer – even if non-practising – surely needs to refine his terms…Otherwise, who will employ him when he returns to the .er, ‘bar’?
(Still, I guess he could wash glasses, if not pour the drinks)….
Beloved SD, Few other points in my 8:06 pm post also need your expert opinion…
After all, you seems to be the degree holder of M.M.
M.M. is not for Ms./ Mrs./ Ma/Mother but for
Masters of Meditation.
And Shantam, what’s all this nonsense about “all the hugging and counselling”?!
Where the hell do you get that from, man? You wouldn’t be, er, ‘living in the distant past,’ would you? Surely not….
You seem to have rather fixed, somewhat primitive ideas of what constitues ‘meditation’, Mr Lawyer. Stuck in the dim and distant Past….
Re your 8.06 post, Shantam – No thanks, I’ve covered it all above.
Hugging form Amma, Counselling from Meera and decades old notes from OSHO… How much one needs more for a Masters degree in Meditation…
You seem to have rather fixed, somewhat primitive ideas of what constitues ‘meditation’, Mr Lawyer. Stuck in the dim and distant Past….SD
This to me is a clear case of ” The pot calling the kettle black”
Similar phrases
In the Gospel of Matthew 7:3, Jesus is quoted as saying, during the discourse on judgmentalism in the Sermon on the Mount, “And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?”
(wiki)
I explain you my understanding… There are minimum 6.5 billion attributes to meditation, prayer etc…
jesus christ checks into a motel,throws three nails on the reception desk and says
“can you put me up for the night?”
Few white coller people will find it uneasy to think Bush or Blair, Osama or Saddam as less meditattors than say Clinton or Obama…
On the on side we have all the rights to judge the others for their worldly mistakes and contributions as we are all bounded by the laws and ethics of a society..
But by judgeing the piousness, spiritual worthiness of the others is going to far in the relm of one´s own ego..
For example. Christian Church have their own idea what God likes and dislikes. People like Osho is definately No No to God….
One cannot even feel sorry for them but surely it is falling on the pile of garbage if new age seekers judge the inner worthiness of others through their check list..
I think the songs and the tears, silence and the sound of human interiority is beyond human jurisdiction…
jesus christ checks into a motel,throws three nails on the reception desk and says
“can you put me up for the night?”
Frank, do you have or can create a similar joke for Buddha?
I think the biggest contribtution of Osho Foundation International will not lie in the fact how many Osho complilations are in the market by X nos. of publishers, But how many jokes about Osho exist in the day to day life…
I just woke up – in love this morning… so I’ll have to play catch up…. Bob and S.D.– To clear up my comments about the pinko chinese… I don’t like them.. can’t stand them actually… they have destroyed Tibet… they are doing to tibet what stalin had partially done to the Ukraine during the 1930′s -1950′s… they also managed to add so many toxins to the world’s environment in less than 15 years, it took the U.S. and Europe about 100 years to do the same. never mind free press or freedom of expression… the only thing the commie fuck-faces know as “free” is Free Money- coming from the west….greed is greed… this East/West label is all bullshit…. Bob… so sorry for the misspelling of Dung Xiaoping… i could have double checked the spelling before posting but I rather forget his name- sooner the better.
“The western way is violence”…. how naive!!! It’s a human race condition!!!
frank– i’d rather eat out a stinky pussy than eat in at a chinese restaurant in any chinatown, especially on a hot summers day.
Shantam- while checking in at an airport, do they tell you to remove your turban? If so, what have they found nesting under there? perhaps, a woodpecker doing his thing…..
” i’d rather eat out a stinky pussy than eat in at a chinese restaurant in any chinatown, especially on a hot summers day. ” Bubbie
YOu seems to be a rich man with good taste….
To eat stinky pussy..it is still live postive and therefore 40, 50% times more expansive than a Chinese Restaurant..
I do not belived that delhi based foundation has contributed any money to save 17 koregaon park…..in fact i have seen them making money out of it more than they need.
they always ask others to spent in courts and pretend that they do not have any thing……
I remmber sw. amrit vairagya ( who used to purchased marble and other big stuff for groups) has about 10 crores rupees and still he was asking on sannyas.net in 2003 from sannyasins to pay his medical bills which was merely 3 lakh rupees. i hope his posts are still there for others to read .
everyone based in delhi made fortune when they were in power in pune 2.
i have only seen them making money and never contributating towards sannyas scence…….
they came to pune with nothing and within few years by working in non.profitable commune , they start to own millions of ruppees flats, and others stuff………..any child can see where this money came from…………
Shantam: Lokesh, how you know Chinmaya´s comment was directed towards you?
I don’t and I also don’t care because the guy is a twat,
And so is Anugrah…another one with a woodpecker in his turban….love it!
anugrah.. i like your style of condemning the rich delhi twats too..
if we reserve all our ire (anger) for the pune lot then the others think that they are saints….
generally theres a clique in every sannyas scene and yes money is the defining factor…though it is never mentioned as an aspect of the overall game.. its always happy smiley faces, prime ministers and hierarchy..
so whenever you get a chance post something about privilege in sannyas–here on sannyas rebel news..
bubbie its human nature to destroy things is very true
its also human nature to seek self preservation in a mutually compatible way
thats why i love noam chomsky’y 55 years of anarchist thought
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Shantam:
You seem to have rather fixed, somewhat primitive ideas of what constitues ‘meditation’, Mr Lawyer. Stuck in the dim and distant Past….SD
This to me is a clear case of ” The pot calling the kettle black”
SD:
Oh yes, Shantam?
Kindly explain…
Actually, you’re talking out of your ignorant backside – as per usual!
prem bubbie:
“The western way is violence”…. how naive!!! It’s a human race condition!!!
SD:
But never perfected to such a degree as by the ruling culture of our times (in fact, the last few centuries in particular): ‘western intellectual materialism’.
‘Western’, because it arose out of the West, not the East, very obviously.
“How naive” of you, Bubbie, to declare otherwise!
Shantam:
One cannot even feel sorry for them but surely it is falling on the pile of garbage if new age seekers judge the inner worthiness of others through their check list..
I think the songs and the tears, silence and the sound of human interiority is beyond human jurisdiction…
SD:
Unfortunately though, Shantam, you set yourself up for such “judgment” by never giving any indication of the intelligence that normally arises from genuine ‘inner enquiry’…
Which is compounded by your self-appointment as the spokesman for what I (and, it seems, others here) regard as a meaningless, worthless cause.
Which you tend to express in a most unsatisfactory, rambling, very often practically incomprehensible manner.
All of which daily qualifies you for what one might metaphorically call ” a good kicking”!
Now do you understand?
(No? Thought not somehow).
I assume you’ve no intention of revealing how you used to spend your time back in your young days, over two decades ago, when, according to you, you spent a lot of time in “Osho Compounds”?
MIght be interesting, revealing even…
the US spends roughly the same as the rest of the world on Military spending
US maternal deaths during childbirth are higher than greece despite twice the costs of the health care payments
Cubas medical outcomes per capita are roughly the same as US despite 5% of the costs
numbers of suicide by US returned troops from iraq now equal combat deaths
line 1
…same as the rest of the world combined…
S.D. By “western intellectual materialism”… by that,does it also include chivalry? Even a couple of centuries ago science and medicine were both in its infancy… no better than that of Rome some 2,000 years before… A rough form of intellectual materialism existed back in ancient Egypt, certainly Greece and Ancient Rome… Slavery was used so the rich would not have to spread out heir wealth. The modern(western) form of slavery is “illegal” immigration… The West wouldn’t be caught dead hiring “slaves” yet, “illegals” are treated almost as bad as slaves… How about the brutality of Ancient Rome and some ancient middle eastern cultures… Genghis Khan and his offspring… on his death bed while his troops had a particular Chinese city under seize, he was asked what to do… with his last breath he said, “kill them all”…. some 200,000 chinese were butchered, not by artillery, or guns, by the knife… those monguls loved beheadings… So, the English “cleaned” things up with regards to war… the root of violence is sheer mental madness…. everything else is window dressing… humans are mad… whether being from the West or East or North or South… here in the states, television shows love to show violence, same with cinema… lots of “horror/slasher movies these past 10 years… They only give it an “R” rating… when fucking is involved and no violence, it’s given the kiss of death “X” rating-over 21 only… Personally , I’d rather have a kid watch 2 adults screw their brains out, than for them to watch someone murdered on the cinema… Twisted social norms. So, S.D. please leave the blame to nature in general.
S.D> Kindly explain India’s wonderful reputation as an “enlightened” social for the past 5,000 years? Iran? Africa? Cannibals of Borneo? Pol Pot of Cambodia(please don’t blame Karl Marx for that). Nature’s been tough on all life forms for eons, now a species comes along and starts to “get over” on nature, yet nature gave that ability … who’s responsible? Mechanization, modern life, what ever you want to call it… we have to learn to be disciplined with that ability, it’s only natural to seek an easier , less hard way of living.. it’s not going to go away, no regression to the cave men way of living… it’s either going to kill us or we’ll learn and grow up and flourish.. not sure if nature actually has given us that ability yet. “One’s gotta know their limitations”– Dirty Harry
Those were the sermons for the month… donations are encouraged for my new “Mega- Church”… made of mud with a thatched roof.. pass the hat please
Thank God, that the west has never listened to slave morality or followed slave morality. Whether it is popes who have been interested in conquering the world for Christianity and establishing the kingdom of God and the dominion and the power and the glory of jesus to the Communists who were interested in conquering the world for communism and establishing the dictatorship of the proletariat etc. etc. etc. Thank God that the west has not given up its instincts to war, to rule, to dominion, to the thorough enjoyment of good and evil actions. If the west had listened to the preaching of those who preach flower power and slave morality it would have been a slave race today. And of course the masses are interested in establish democracy as an escape from terrible natures like Lenin and Stalin. The west is fundamentally pagan and greek even in apparently un-greek actions like the establishment of Christianity, it was still the lust for power and dominon and conquest which was working. I personally think that slaves should be kept as a reminder and a reinforcement of our identity as a ruling race and ruling class. I think this is a paraphrasing of Nietzsche although it is my opinion but I would not want to presume that Nietzsche shares my opinion.
To this end I reccomend the adoption of a ruling ideology which has as it’s goal the unification of western civilization for the conquest of the world (western civilization comprising America, Europe and Russia, the areas to be conquered to be the rest of the world.), the elimination of religion, the elimination of democracy, the crushing of all opposition and an internation aristocracy (comprised not of race and not by birth, aristocracy is poetic liscence on my part.) which rules the rest of manking and has no concern for the welfare of the people but only its own welfare and the increasing of its own power.
The ruling ideology which I would suggest is Technocracy with its plan of total conscription.
By the way, Friedrich Engels has an article titles the origins of the family, private property and the state. Inside the article he talks about a form of marriage which used to exist in the past “marriage by capture.”. I thought it interesting that both Hades and Krishna kidnapped their wives. I thought it fitting with the whole lust for power and conquest thing.
http://www.chomsky.info/audionvideo.htm
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and lots of sex
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ttp://www.chomsky.info/audionvideo.htm
and lots of sex is the answer…
Of course he is not, I agree with Ayn Rand.
http://www.aynrand.org
I reckon Captain Kurz summed up the heart of darkness best in this small statement from ‘Apocalypse Now’.
‘They order them to drop fire on human beings, but forbid them to write ‘fuck’ on their planes because it is obscene.’
addressed to the shrill voice-strangled fundamentalists of the world…whichever flag you pretend to lick…
not only is your mindset a deliberate knee jerk psychology of unprocessed vindictiveness , attempting to venally exhaust itself on the consumption of anothers psyche,
it is also unscientific
undeveloped
morose
and has no ‘authority’ within the world of insight and precison.. let alone an ethical or ‘feminised’ right brain development.
its only saving grace is its apparent transparency which in turn shrouds internal neglect
it is a symptom of itself… not a cure.. the fact that it exclusively promotes ,at best , external ‘reorganisation’ lacking correspondence, to maintain its stability , informs us of its internal alienated source of self-regulating nourishment
it is however the most familiar form of manufactured intimidatory human exchange whether in mortified or apparently sanctified interaction..
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chomsky:
last part of the interview
freedom of speech in the US is a result of popular activism…
Hey Shahriar, you say you agree with Ayn Rand. So tell me, how does what you are doing fit in with this statement made by Ayn Rand?
It is not advisable, James, to venture unsolicited opinions. You should spare yourself the embarrassing discovery of their exact value to your listener.
Oh…I see…quotes is it?
Timothy Leary
“Think for yourself and question authority”
shariah,
nietzche was a very brainy guy.
reading his stuff can be a real buzz,if you are so inclined.
but remember.
the guy was a complete failure as a human being.
never had a girlfriend.just syphilis from the whorehouse.
he absolutely hated women.
his idealisation of greek and southern cultures came from the extensive homo cruising for young boys he did when he was down in italy and the med every summer.
his ideas of “master morality” were in part,the twisted sexual fantasies of a sick man who was more heavily infected with the disease of christianity that he criticised,and yet,was in fact suffering from more than most.
he wrecked his health through dodgy sexual practices and excessive abuse of a variety of nasty drugs.
and spent the last 10 years of his life in a catatonic haze in the care and under the total control of his sister,a complete fascist and anti-semite whom he hated and was the antithesis of what he “preached”…
with disastrous consequences when she “sold” his work to the nazis…
his literary creation,zarathustra,the all powerful breaker of “slave morality” was just a extended compensatory fantasy for his own pathetically retarded humanity…..
watch out you dont go the same way,intellectual boy……
It does not, Ayn Rand was simply a rebuttal to Noam Chomsky, it had nothing to do with my other post.
Frank, are you serious? What are your sources? I have never heard that Nietzsche did drugs and I am not sure whether his engaging in what you called “dodgy sexual practices” is verified. I am not sure if he hated women. i have not detected such hatred. Perhaps a few reasons for why you believe he hated women.
And as far as I know ‘dodgy sexual practices” are not ruinous to one’s health.
Is that you speaking from experience, Shahriar? Sounds a bit dodgy to me, mate.
lmao
they are if you catch syphilis from pasive homo action in a male brothel…
my sauces?
hp
ketchup and a bit of vaseline for lubrication,mostly…
Before Osho got the kick from USA because of illegal activities; and it makes me wonder under what kind of influence, He did all that stuff in America which is not characteristic of His style…
Being the INTELLIGENT and REBELLIOUS ENLIGHTENED of our time, Osho was instrumental to bring the wave of change in his country which always worships tradition and stability.
Osho was hammering this all, but in the parameters of constitution and legal frame work..
I have written few words in Capital,because just enlightenment is doing the rounds for thousands of years in India, their representatives are still doing rowing business, but it makes me cry over the brain power of few of His sannyasins ,who think their visiting black and white television has 3D element in it..
So the point is Osho was very much a force to make India realise, growth lies not in Soviet Union kind of politics but of America….
I was never in USA, but love their constitutional frame work, including the The strong Military, CIA and also the left wing thinkers…
It is too easy to blame everything on CIA, CIA simply puts the gold colored metal in the fire…what CIA did after 2nd world war was not a very difficult chess game but what they will do in the coming years to curb the growing influence of Indian China belt will require a master´s brain..
Only pity i find in the American thinking is their Bible thumping..Majority of people still cannot imagine Bible is one of the ancient book, nothing more than that…
To put the love and devotion is one thing but to think facts stated in that book are written by God is as childish as to say Queen and Philips are the Marry and Joseph…
But than once you acquire power, everything around you becomes Holy..
ANugrah, i put your post in todays´s agenda…
Thanks for bringing the Delhi guys in the parameters of transparancy…
Chiatanya Keerti being the spokes person of Delhi camp reads everything on this site. Once he was responding too..but seems like His boss or the colleagues have instructed him not to be too vocal with the street bullies kind of guys we are here…
Again i have to hammer the point that being one of rare master with human insights, Osho has not chosen one CEO or a successor but 20 people from different countries to counter balance the power and greed aspects of each other..
This kind of coupling of east and west can produce better world..but not the coupling where the back door is opened with the front door lock key….
anugrah // Nov 26, 2010 at 11:26 pm
I do not belived that delhi based foundation has contributed any money to save 17 koregaon park…..in fact i have seen them making money out of it more than they need.
they always ask others to spent in courts and pretend that they do not have any thing……
I remmber sw. amrit vairagya ( who used to purchased marble and other big stuff for groups) has about 10 crores rupees and still he was asking on sannyas.net in 2003 from sannyasins to pay his medical bills which was merely 3 lakh rupees. i hope his posts are still there for others to read .
everyone based in delhi made fortune when they were in power in pune 2.
i have only seen them making money and never contributating towards sannyas scence…….
they came to pune with nothing and within few years by working in non.profitable commune , they start to own millions of ruppees flats, and others stuff………..any child can see where this money came from…………
Shantam I am going to disagree, Osho did not in my view choose 21 persons to counterbalance the others greed but rather because his work is global and it would be too much for 1 person to handle and also he didn’t anyone to think that he was leaving a successor.
Shahriar, life will be utterly paradise, if we depend upon the thesis writen by the arm chair academecians….
Osho the most vocal master has not spoken much about the grounds behind the 21 members of inner circle..
Work was definately global…And one of the reasons, about counter balance the power comes from the fact where he has admitted in few of the discourses, how the concentration of power in few hands at Rajneeshpuram was one of the cause for debacle and how he will try His level best that such things never take place again..
The famous maxim, ” Power makes corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.”, Osho has quoted more than once…
One thing is fundamental…The adharance to the constitution, company charter or the doctrines of one´s religious principles which must change with the time…
The age of Monarchs, the age of clergy may be still valid in gulf countires, but not in the modren world, Osho advocates, it is an age of collective responsibilty..
The most powerful man is subject to the mercy of the citizens, CEO´s have to think about share holders confidence and Pope is bound to accept..” Condoms are needed, if not for fucky fucky games but to prevent the STD´s.
Bubbie, ‘Western intellectual materialism’ has been developing since the Ancient Greeks, possibly even before, and reached a certain climacteric with the invention of atomic weapons, the means to destroy the entire world.
It is, as I said, specifically of the West, the East went down a different route. And sure, everyone (except, it would seem, a few jungle tribes and the Taliban) wants its fruits, that’s why it’s conquered the entire world.
Now though, we’re very likely in the final stages of this so-called ‘western civilisation’, which as we know has failed in many ways, perhaps the most significant being the huge gap between ‘haves’ and ‘have nots’, on both world and national scales.
“We’re doomed, I tell you, doomed!”
Here endeth my lesson for the weekend…
Have a good one!
toward the end of his life osho chose the 21.
also ,near the end of his life,he said that he was being attacked by german cultists who were using black magic etc etc…
a lot of people were witness to that escapade.
people moving seats to find out where the black magicians were sitting…
brian rajneesh was there and got moved around.
to him and his followers that is a sign of his recieving a “transmission”
the whole affair was a drug-addled fantasy that was played out to a mishmash of religious fantasists locked in hypnagogic reverie,imagined as “meditation”…
and is now continuing to be perpetrated by armchair philosophers who parrot nietzsche and osho and their compensatory fantasies of global movements,new men and solutions for other people`s problems when they cant`t solve their own problems…….
all osho`s hot air about “averting global suicide”,yet he couldnt even prevent the suicide of his closest and most intimate female friend…
you dont like it
i dont like it.
but what to do..
rewrite history..?….
so what you`re left with is a a bunch of jerks with beards and robes,continuing the oldest profession in the world,priesthood, hustling people for cash to pay their lawyers…
for their invisible “vision” that never happens…
they are on stage with the mic
and you`re the mug paying for it….
so osho`s vision comes to fruition.
krishnamurti banged on about how organisation and religion was simply a wrong idea.
osho proved it.
pure genius……
Frank, who are you talking about when you said that he couldn’t prevent the suicide of his closest and most intimate female friend?
Don’t you think Osho was joking when he said someone was practicing black magic on him? You don’t actually believe Osho believed such a thing, my view is that he was just being playful and not taking life seriously.
shariah..
you are reallly uninvolved with any of this.. time you got out of nintendo world and either take sannyasand go on a mystery tour of all the things posted here or find something more simple for your teenage brain–
either way its likely you’ll remain an idiot…
frank i really appreciate your encapsulated take on events, objectivley.It strips the sanctimonious groupies egoists etc of their/our kudos.
there isnt a but.
there is an also…
osho had psychically profound love which he transmitted directly in his darshans…and arguably at a distance elsewhere personally.. ie in discourse
something which invective for or against cannot reproduce.
perhaps his mentioning of radiations of love energy from masters tombs confused people into wanting to suck off his ashes… such is our poverty of our own energetic experience…
he
like acid
was far far out…
Frank, your 1:31 post is spot on and concise. Great stuff, man.
Shahriar, Martyn is right, you need to educate yourself about the subjects discussed here. Your intellectual takes don’t cut the mustard in these regions. Remember, in Sannyas Land even the greatest of minds are mediocre and you don’t even have one of those.
Frank, what a lot of rubbish! Why should Osho be responsible for a suicide or drug overdose of one of his close disciples, who by the way at that time was living with
Jayesh and did not even live in Lao Tzu house anymore.
All the wise guys come now out of their fox holes.
Who is Frank anyway? Never met any Frank in Pune.
And ex sannyasi Lokesh is clapping…..
ma jyoti, sw.vairagya,satyavedant repersent delhi based osho sannyasins.
they do not offer anything new to world .
osho is income source for them .
they wish lots of rich indians, german, american and japanis people come to them and donate money in the name of osho . and they do not consider other 98 percent of osho lovers
whatever you on surface is not the same when you see them closely. i have seen them very closely
if sheela did business, pune based management doing business, then i would say delhi based is not any diffrent from them.
i have seen them leaning towards west for its money only . which is not really east west meeting.
by the way those are not just thinghs i heard from others , i have seen them doing all that with my eyes . i believe what i see …
i have not seen enough love in delhi based foundation for 17 koregaon park , that makes me also say thinghs above……..
most probely keerti will not comment on this public platform because he only talk to news papers and media who does not really know what we old timers knows……
there is no risk with indian media, but here is risky to comment on my comment , because telling truth one needs guts
Anand, if being a blind bleating sheep like yourself means being a sannyasin…well, I’m fine with the title ex-sannyasi.
Baaaaaaah! (sheep sound so that you have something to relate to)
remember the gurdjieff story about the magician that hynotized his sheep into thinking they were lions so they could be controlled?
another part of the story that i came to know from some hardcore eso-sufis,was that those sheep would always do two things to the other sheep…
they would shag the smaller sheep
and fleece them,too….
it still happens today,apparently….
“digressions,objections,delight in mockery,carefree mistrust are all signs of health.
everything unconditional belongs in pathology”
–friedrich nietzsche
martyn,
i subscribe to the acid also……..
and the also acid…
Finances of Osho organizations were always kept top secret. Which is strange, since you would think a non-profit organization should have the legal obligation to open books at least once a year to the public.
So the people who have their fingers on the incoming cash are always manipulating that position to their gain, or at least that could be the suspicion and that goes on since Sheela and includes Jayesh, Neelam, Tathagat (including family members) and of course Jayesh, whose dealings in Israel, Dallas etc. are all under the radar.
The Delhi fraction uses rich sponsorships to fight an expensive legal battle in the USA against the trademark case (and won). But they are giving Osho MP3 discourses away for free, which of course costs them nothing. Real estate is piling up up North.
While in Pune entrance fees this season are Rs 850 plus 150 for Basho (total about $ 25.00). You pay cash only and then where does the cash goes?
Lokesh: I am teasing…wow, wow..(dog barking).
Sannyas news is a degenerated forum of former sannyasins who moved on in their path and now feel the urgency to criticize Osho disciples whose respect and love is still intact. You can call them ‘sheep’ and I would call those ‘snakes’. But the universe is laughing.
Why not demand an interrogation of opening all the financial accounts of Osho International and its sub companies in UK and US to the public?
Anand, you say: Sannyas news is a degenerated forum of former sannyasins who moved on in their path and now feel the urgency to criticize Osho disciples whose respect and love is still intact.
I disagree on a number of levels; the most significant of which I will comment on now.
There is nothing urgent about anything I say on this forum. You speak about respect and love being intact, as if such a banner should be held above all others. respect what exactly? In your case and many like you that respect seems to imply pulling the wool over your eyes and completely denying an objective reality in favour of a subjective one based on some hindu myth about perfectly enlightened sages who can do no wrong. In other words, what you are worshiping as holy is a load of delusional shit. Love? A much bandied about word that can mean almost anything, therefore let us use a dictionary….LOVE…to have great attachment to and affection for….
Well it is obvious that you are attached to an image of a man who taught non-attachment…you know…the witness…bit of a contradiction there. Affection for…yes that part of your love is right on the button, especially in relation to the past and all that sentimental rubbish you guys are trading in that you think has something to do with your guru, Osho…but it doesn’t…it’s just a gaudy Hindu dream…a cheap Boollywood farce that comes as a result of thousands of years of tradition that has not really done any real good for the world…old hat for bleating sheep.
The best way to keep a person captive is to tie him with a long rope so that he thinks he is free….I suppose your freedom is still intact to, is it?
Lokesh- ” Right on Right on”- Black Panthers 1970…. Captain Kurz for President 2012
Frank- Nietzche being a brainy guy, I think hated women because , most brainy guys can’t deal with wild emotions, love, and the manic states women often get into… Just yesterday while watching a CNN show, Dr. OZ was on, he said he attended some sort of conference for women dealing with medical and sexual issues… turns out there’s something called “Clitoral Atrophy”, women over 40 suffer from it due to decreasing estrogen levels and more so with women over the age of 50… The clitoris actually disappears-gets absorbed by the body and it makes it almost impossible for a women to become aroused, all due to some simple chemical molecule floating or not floating around in the body, and due to this, women act more and more “strangely” as they get older(just joking!!) Now, back in Nietzche’s day , no-one had any idea this was occurring… now that we know, what is society going to do about it? Still live in the superstitious past or take the intelligent leap forward- a leap in consciousness…. So give Nietzche a break.. he was still a primitive with a primitive mind, but for those of us today, there is no excuse to stay primitive, superstitious, and stupid… Yet, the “new man” oriented osho sannyasins still live and think like primitives, quite contrary to what they talk about.
Shariar is Iranian- “dodgy sexual practices” is common in Iran…. don’t their “religious” leaders support such practices? Look at who the Iranians choose to be their “religious ” leaders… it just figures… Shariar is just subconsciously carrying the torch for his fellow countrymen… now- you go and say 10 Hail Mary’s, 20 “our Father’s”, flog yourself 20 times and you will be forgiven… and sin no more my son….. go in peace.
lot of good posts here today,
from Noam to Nietzsche
to the Greeks and the underpinnings of Western Civilization and on to the delusional Hindu mythololgical mind-set
quite a journey
from anarchism to acid
homos to bleeting sheep
suicides, toxic tomatoes, and the occasional Glasgow Kiss….ouch!
Buddhas teeth, Osho’s ashes, and boiling animal body parts in Chinese restaurants
(is this a pathology lab in an Edgar Allen Poe book, or what?)
imperialism, technocracy, democracy, and shagfests
truth, lies, and everything in between (that just about covers it all, right?)
like Lokesh said…
after all,
this is Sannyas News, isn’t it?
bubbie,
i love nietzsche.
i was just being bitchy..
must be my hormones…
i`m aging too,in fact,these days when i follow my dick,i fall on my face!!
actually,to be honest,it was always like that!
i was just trying to get it to sharia that if you try to make a system out of neitzsche,you`ll end up goosestepping to an asylum….
but his aphorisms,one-liners,are something else….
I disagree with you S.D. on the huge gap of the “haves” and “have nots”.. It was way fucking worse even 100 years ago, and way back for several millenia. Only the very few- the “elites” or “royals” had 99% of the wealth…the middle class arouse during the middle ages…. there is far more wealth spread out amongst people today than ever before.. though it may seem otherwise to the not -so-discerning eyes simply because of the enormous population that exists today…. 6.5 billion now; 500 years ago less than a billion, and the vast amount of natural resources being consumed today as opposed to 500 years ago… no industrialization back then, a very simple life style- no plastics, autos, planes, trains, computers, plasma tv’s… today and of recent years, we’re sucking up resources for junk-just plain junk and for billions of people… even the garbage pickers in Manila and Shanghai are better off than their ancestors of 200 years ago, except for the pollution.
And talking about “Royalty”… Whoever came up with that scam long ago was simply brilliant, just brilliant… such stupid humans thinking that only certain people are “anointed” to lead– now, that’s the first thing i’d eliminate in this “modern” world… talk about superstitions. Israelies with their kabbutz system is a good beginning as well as their “Rotational Command” structure., where junior officers have an opportunity to lead… it’s far from the ideal. but, hey, gotta start somewhere.
Frank, regarding the black magic being used against osho- i heard a lecture he gave about this, he said, if he could do the same against them except that he valued human life too much to do so… those germans… a real pissed off bunch of primitive tribesman… they definitely don’t know how to take a joke!!
Frank- you mentioned osho not being able to prevent Vivek’s suicide… I’ve avoided bring this up but one theory is that she found out she had hiv and osho also had it.. in order to prevent it from being discovered and ruining the whole house of cards osho created she committed suicide with osho’s okay… and osho supposedly died of hiv, NOT of thallium poisoning.
posting that left a bad taste in my mouth….
Shariar- regarding the black magic issue– my own opinion and don’t ask how i’ve come to it; osho wasn’t kidding, it was true…you wouldn’t believe me if i told you… enough said.
Lokesh as long as you can feel free and superior in your position now, no problem. But you and many others are permanently creating fantasy stories about Osho from your own dreams, to bring Osho down to your level or lower. These are stories of Osho as a drug addict, and now Bubbie the CIA employee to destroy anything positive about Osho here with his hiv fantasy and many others. No respect apparently for the old man, bitterness it seems to me…..
Vivek was manic depressive and took hard drugs and don’t you think during the last days of Osho her departure, which he called “untimely” was not painful.
Imagine yourself loosing your beloved….
I am just missing gratitude, respect and love for Osho in this forum and all those foul mouthed egos spitting their vomit here. So I go back to silence, since that is what it is.
The reality is what is for you one sentimental story of the past is for many still a day to day reality. You just lost that thread somewhere in your life, maybe during your jail time, but still now the connection to Osho is for many people alive and kicking and that is why so many people feel and experience this for the first time with Osho not even been in the body.
So you and Bubbie and others are pissing on this here,
that is your right by the rules here, but you are very judgemental and wild guessing about other sannyasin’s relationships to Osho. Can you look into my heart? Do you know if I am ‘attached’?
Osho obviously does not mean much to you anymore, you liberated yourself with the help of Papaji and you are just here spending some good writing time, working on your skills and with Bubbie creating some kind of weird image of Osho for the readers here.
I prefer my connection and image and have no problem with him being human as well.
I admire the Anand in Frank…
i never thought even for a second that his losing vivek was not painful.
most sannyasins bought into the cover up that all was ok because he had transcended everything.you probably did till others started asking questions.
or did you believe the pre-emptive sati neo-hindu nonsense of kirti?
and you anand,with your sending of the dental transcripts here to sannyas news.
what were you trying to achieve?
i asked you before,and of course you replied like a cartoon holy man “everything has its time”
you are on the same “we control the secrets” power game that you are oddly now beginning to speak against.
maybe you should be careful and avoid jackass news.
you are being sucked in……
your love still “intact”?
not a very amourous adjective.
my love is like a red red rose…
my love is,er…intact…
sounds distinctly unpoetic to me
sounds possibly legally binding,though…..
Gossips and rumours are always mixed with facts..
Thanks God..Osho´s discourses are available in their uncut form, also the thousands of hours of life around Osho….
Seekers will always finf the nourishment for the soul, but somewhere one wonders about the inner state of Bubbie, the man who imagines Vivek and Osho dying because of HIV.
The opening happening because of Osho can take many forms..Imagination can fly without breaks..
prem bubbie:
I disagree with you S.D. on the huge gap of the “haves” and “have nots”…
SD:
Send that message especially to the tens or hundreds of millions starving in Africa and Asia then, perhaps, bubbie, then let’s hear their response…
Tell that to those living well below the poverty line all over the world…
Tell that to the less well-off in our western democracies…
Tell that to the as-good-as-destroyed indigenous peoples of America, Canada and Australasia…
No, the problem is that the huge effort of western materialism is failing because it’s failing to deliver to everyone, it still favours the relative few
When the fact is that it’s theoretically possible to create a decent life for everyone – but there’s no real will to do that, it’s all basically run on selfishness, greed.
Hence it is intrinsically morally flawed and therefore doomed.
As for this ‘rumour’ about HIV, well…Anyone can say anything, esp after chief protagonists in the story are no longer around…
The HIV rumour was around since he died, given the FACT he shagged hundreds of chicks during the ’70′s when fucking without a condom was the norm even for the nymphomaniacs and yes there were many prostitutes who were sannyasins… All facts, no fiction, oh yeah how many junkies were sannyasins? So, please you critics of the possibilities, take that needle and stick it up your ass!!
This HIV and osho/vivek thing has really “upset” some. Well, that’s just to fucking bad!!!!
S.D. the troubles with starvation in Africa Asia and indigenous peoples being destroyed… petty ante shit…. Try your history again… Genghis Khan…. Cossacks, Inter tribal massacres in Africa(not caused by westerners) same with slavery… Mayan and Aztec human sacrifices and conquests of neighboring tribes. The entire history of humanity is all about conquest and killing, starvation used as a tool. Oh yeah.. the indigenous north asian peoples from thousands of years ago help kill off the sabre tool tiger , woolly mammoth and dozens of other species… they were pretty slantie eyed fuckers I hear…. non Anglo at all… same with good old genghis and Kubla… killed a total of 20 million chinese in the 12th -13 century, that would be equivalent of 200-300 million in today’s numbers… so obsessed with hating the westerners….another guy with a woodpecker under his turban.
Today the news of these tragedies spreads all over the world in an instant… back then, not many knew, not many cared… yet it was worse… oh yeah who ya gonna blame for the plague during the middle ages….
Doc Amrito should know about osho/hiv .. he was his doctor after all… secrets being kept for the public image to be saved.
and soooooo much money to be made!!!!!
no shantam if you can stop that woodpecker for a moment… i don’t imagine that… just sharing what’s been around for a very long time. “Oh heaven’s me!! That can’t be true!!! It’s osho, for Christ sake”… “he’s holier than us, our savior, heaven sent… what blasphemy”, “this is an outrage”(quote from “Cat on a Hot Tin Roof) “You’ll burn on the stake for this you heretic”!! Salman Rushdie Lives!!!!
S.D. ?I see now you need someone to blame for your troubles…Gotta go for the big banana, the big boogieman…The U.S.A. what else is new?
Anand, Your little dingy of a boat- what did you name her? “The Good Ship Lollipop”? very appropriate. May she sail you to the fantasy land of never more!!!!
Anand, i have no need to feel superior to anyone and a lot of what you are addressing towards me has nothing whatsoever to do with anything I’ve written on this blog. I have not created any fantasy stories aboit Osho and all this putting up and putting down projection of yours is simply a mirroring of your own narrow mindset. Going by your comments on SN I think your biggest crimes are that you are a little bit stupid and stuck. No big deal, in fact quite normal for someone who is covered in wool and has four legs.
You bleat out all this sanctimonious crap about respect for Osho, but respect was something that he did not pay to most public figures himself, even if they were revered and a source of inspiration for millions…Mother Theresa, Gandhi, The Polack Pope etc. Now you have stuck Osho up on one of those pedestals he so much detested himself while alive. As I say, you are a bit stupid and your writings are full of contradictions. Personally I don’t give a fuck about that…your problem, swami, nobody else’s.
I have no need to create a weird image of Osho, he did a fantastic job of that himself. Fine by me…I am a bit weird also. The word weird in its origins relates primeraly to the supernatural. Abracadabra!
Lokesh..the way you write gives the impression that you was one of the most regular CUSTOMER at Osho´s firm….you paid also upfront with the cash for the services received..
But did not buy a single share in that Firm.
You were not a SHARE HOLDER.
What i want to say is lack of Emotional Bonding..
ANd it is not your fault…West is like this..The lack of emotional contents are visible in every sphare of life..
May be it is due to the COLD WHETHER
After all, our so called freedom is very much destined by the natural elements..
i hate to do this at such a critical time. sitting here on the blog
…… but there are people dying out there on the next post and no- one seems to care…
.not only that but i have been using all the above posts in my new chat up lines to the girlies … and it just isnt working…
so come on guys..
remember to ask
is there life before death ?
and..to use that chat up line which i find so useful
‘ i’m pretty sure I dont have aids.. would you like a shag ?.’
Shantam, funny enough, whenever anyone comes at me with the old ‘Osho just wanted money from people’ number, my standard response is that he did not take any money from me, because I did not have very much. It goes without saying that what was once on offer was in fact priceless….the golden years, one might say.
As for your lack of emotional being nonsense, it is just that…nonsense, and hardly worth a response.
The theories that you project about the West on this level are absolute bullshit. Look at India, the qintessential ‘Eastern’ country. The lack of care in the society is disgustingly obvious. Yes, here in Euriope we also have beggars but nowhere near the levels of India…why?…because people have done something to prevent that kind of poverty. Meanwhile we have idiot Indian business building billion dollar homes right next to Mumbai slums…rather tasteless…no matter how much they say their business has helped the poor.
To be honest I don’t really see a clear line between east or west these days…it is all the same…the planet is united under the banner of consumerism.
Meanwhile, we have idiots like you Shantam, and your pals like Anand, Chinmaya etc thinking and believing you are deeply connected with Osho—-the common denominator being a complete lack of common sense on your part. You are simply playing a revamped version of the old Hindu game of so-called spirituality, which is a complete and utter sham. Osho spoke much about freedom, yet you fools are terrified of it. The idea that you can live in a state of pure freedom, which includes the eradication of authoritarian teddy bear figures, like the role you project on Osho, is entirely abhorrant to you and those of your ilk. Much preferable is a daddy figure, waiting to hold your hand when you cross to the other side. Well, Shantam, word is there is nobody there to guide you because there is no other side….it is all a figment of an immature imagination as is all this bunkum about your deep connection to Osho. So off you go and worship the samadhi and believe that this has something to do with raising the consciousness of humanity….whoeeee!…..blame it on the weather if all is fails…you fool.
Hey, Martyn, 10:48! Is that significant?
bubbie.. do you have enough info and material for Osho and the Addams family Xmas Special…?
im wondering if we could set up a family theme park… and call it
Osho Dracula…
perhaps some new undiscovered meditations.
each 15 minute stage to consist of..
step 1 Declare your enlightenment
step 2 Chant Black Magic
Step 3
Die mysteriously and leave just a pile of books behind for everyone to discuss ad infinitum
Step 4
set up a blog for six people and a dog…
“killed a total of 20 million chinese in the 12th -13 century, that would be equivalent of 200-300 million in today’s numbers… so obsessed with hating the westerners….another guy with a woodpecker under his turban.”
Inflation or deflation?
As far as my previous post, I have schizophrenia so sometimes i say incoherent nonsense.
Anyways, now that I am sane I would like to say that considering the fruits of western civilization, I don’t like the whole westerners are unspiritual thing. Everyone goes on about westerners being unspiritual and yet my opinion is that this is simply “hatred of the good for being the good” as Ayn Rand calls it. Western Civilization has brought science, individual rights, prosperity etc. etc. etc. to the world and yet everyone is so filled with hate towards western civilization. Yes, westerners are prosperous and so they enjoy life. Would you rather have them practice celibacy in a monastery instead of enjoying life? That doesn’t make them materialistic. And before the renaissance the whole world was primitive and savage so the westerners post-renaissance cannot be grouped in the same category as westerners pre-rennaissance.
I did not know that Vivek commited suicide or overdosed.
And Lokesh what is your hatred for consumerism? Consumerism simply means people are prosperous so they can consume? Capitalism is consumerism in a sense, so would you rather have us go back to the time when capitalism did not exist and people could not engage in the sins of consumerism and enjoying life?
Woof! Woof!
Shahriar….what are you talking about. I just bought a new AMG Mercedes with my latest royalty check.
I really think he was joking about the black magic thing. Osho seems way to intelligent and rational to believe in such nonsense. After all, this is black magic we’re talking about, and Osho was talented at telling jokes so of course he is going to keep a straight face.
Good for you Lokesh, I hope you enjoy it.
Sorry, didn’t read that part of your post carefully.
“Send that message especially to the tens or hundreds of millions starving in Africa and Asia then, perhaps, bubbie, then let’s hear their response…”
Enough of this millions of starving people in Africa and Asia, let them starve for christs sake. We don’t owe anything to them. Their need does not become a claim on our life as Objectivists so often say. As if because we are prosperous and they are starving we are supposed to feel guilty and have some obligation to them which we don’t. I could care less how many people die of starvation and disease in Africa. In fact, I would suggest that these poor and starving people in africa be used for human experiments by drug companies. First give them the disease if necessary, then experiment with different drugs on them for the betterment of human life.
I just bought a new AMG Mercedes with my latest royalty check.
If Lokesh you can buy the Merecedes with your Loyality check…John Grishammust be buying the whole plant of Mercedes..
And yes…With the royality..Osho foundation wants to create Osho Towers in Pune, bigger and taller than what an industrialist Ambani could built..
May be you have sold the movie rights to Warner Bros. !
Shahriar, it is almost impssible for you to imagine, osho was speaking about Black Magic thing with utter seriousness..
Will it scratch your Osho image, built through the paperback editions of His books..
I can understand when few hundred pages worth of two holy books have made the personalites of two middle age mystics to the level of existance itself…
Osho with His hundreds of books must be the Biggest, brightest and perfect incarnation of God´s father…
Will you please all move out of the kitchen and go to the lounge where there is a nice discussion on death and dying happening…
thank you
editors sunpat news—
shariah .. of course he was joking ..
and so am I when i say you have found the perfect blog for your teenage wisdom and spot reducing cream
its also a joke when i say please stay here as long as possible and let me read all of your posts with interest…
Shahriar, although I don’t take your post about the starving millions seriously I can comment on it.
I see it like this. Humanity really is one. It is not a case of what you think about the world’s destitute that matters. What matters is that if a child is suffering somewhere on this planet you are affected by it…whether you care to acknowledge the reality or not. To take it a bit further, I do not think that there will be any real enlightenment until everyone is enlightened…otherwise that enlightenment is a sham. That is why the buddhas do not enter through the final door that leads to Nirvana…how can they with so many lost in the dark.
Martyn 12:45. Is that significant?
Right but the difference is that Osho has a long record of being rational and scientific and he is not going to suddenly start bullshitting about black magic, of all things!
As far as humanity being one, the issue with this statement is that what happens when islamic totalitarians declare war on the united states and target the us citizens. Does that mean that we shouldn’t defend oneself? (by attacking Iran for instance.)
*the lives of us citizens
*defend ourselves
Jesus is the PATH, the TRUTH and the LIFE…
(Jesus ist der Weg, die Wahrheit und das Leben!).
Billions of people, i literally means Billions of people not in the uneducated and primitive Muslim or Hindu dominated world..but in the highly educated WEST, upto this time find their life energy into the above sentence, around 2000 years after the Jesus.
No one can even say with absolute authorrity where the facts end and Fiction bigins..
STILL
Jesus is the PATH, the TRUTH and the LIFE…
This is the baisc of the social fabric of the WEST and the spring of motivation..and it also proves the Maxim
Truth is that Which works…..
In this mileu…few so called freespirted people have also taken birth..it shows too, the society is growing and evolving…But these few, who are the bread and butter of travelling Indian monks, these few who have the eyes of a crow to find out the Living and throabing Enlighend Master….and just like crow..they fly away, once they have eaten the enlightend seeds..and the plantation has gone dry…
Martyn i was on the lounge, there is no discussion about life and death..last post is from Bubbie…the man who vomits in the bar and than falls flat..thinking this is the lounge in her mother´s house…
lokesh..
my discourses are complete in themselves..
i have no idea if they are significant.. but i can spot spotty youths a mile off..
and
do you mean do i mean what i say i mean….
wel…. only when imean it…
now i have to go back to my black magic meditation level 6
would it make any difference if i underlined my real points from my unreal opinion in red ink?
im just passing the time on the planet…
and avoiding centre leaders etc..like the plague…
if there was more fun to be had at home learning to sing scottish ballads like they do in the music pubs up north .. id rather do that than this… but…
actually thats not a bad idea….
altogerther now accompanied by aly bain and the shetland uileann pipers
…i wish i had you in carrickfergus
only for a night in Ballygrand.
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lokesh
the master sings
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here where i am near the mountains its covered in snow
so im feeling all xmassy and thought of this
remember this one when its the 25th
I have a friend who organizes Van the Man’s tours. Mr Morrison is by all accounts a bit of a moody chappie, but he sings some great songs. My favourite…off the top of my baldy head…’when we get the healing done.’
The Pogues are a bunch of…er…pogues.
I’m more into Eric Gales
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Shahriar, I can’t help but notice that certain aspects of your cosmic viewpoint are…em… rather underdeveloped—perhaps it might be a good idea to ask your local drug dealer to supply you with some good quality LSD…please remember the importance of set and setting for your psychedelic experience, which I suppose means staying well clear of Iran.
PS Don’t let Shantam know about this. He is permanently out of his head on the brown acid.
Pss Do you know why people used to be called ‘squares’ back in the sixties?
When i read Shahriar, i see my face 25-30 years ago.
When the Osho books are available but not the Osho, not even the Oshofield…It is almost like a situation..medical books are available but not the professor, junior doctors and the infra structure…..
what will happen in this unorganised health scene. ??
Difficult to imagine?
About Lokesh …I just remembered a old saying…
” Intelligent enemy is much better than a stupid Friend….”
God willing, i make a pilgrimage to Ibiza during the next sunny season…
lokesh ..ur link….thats black magic music
As far as we know, human civilization is going to be here for another thousand years. Do you all think another world war is possible between major world powers? I’m not talking about a war against Islamic totalitarianism which is very likely. And possibly Noth Korea, but other than that it seems to me the era when major world powers wage wars with one another is over.
By the way, is that lecture where Osho talks about black magic being practiced on him available? do you know what the name is prem bubbie? (or anyone else.)
Shahriar,
This is a very interesting observation that the era when major world powers wage wars with one another is over….
May be people like Martyn and other anti war demonsttrators can give credit to the Americaan foreign policy..
The strong America with its intact democratic institutions needs the credit for this amazing era of our civilisation and it will be utter thanklessness to say that the core values of Christianity has not played the role to bind people togehter for this innovating energy..
But the major war will not take place in our life time, i don´t believe. If it doesnot happen it is OK, but it will happen as a historcial necessity…
CHINA will be the triggering point for this new war….
And India with the help of western powers will become instrumental to break China into few pieces……
PS-And India will also not stay as a single country of unity in diversity.
Dear Shantam,
Days are not far off when North Korea with its Atom Bomb power and large Military Force plus the full support of China is going to attack South Korea. And who knows, this will take the shape of World War in the near future, viz. by 2012. Because it will not be tolerated by America and allies.
There are other sources too, not openly known to the public, for World War. Surreptitiously, they are fully prepared. These countries too wish to paralyse this earth with present scenerio. This is not pessimism but actualities.
May be some invisible forces/souls are restricting them.
Ameen……
shantam .. now you are just being silly…
if you are western …our best arises out of humanism on a local level… this natural mutual exchange becomes sinister when strategic fear overplays its hand….in bullying coercive tactics nationally or internationally… without at the very least reference to simple psychometric testing of the levels of sanity in our beloved leaders
i’m not against war….
i dont like at least 50 per cent of people on a good day…. try travelling on any public transport system or get stuck in a traffic jam…you’ll see ..
its just that i dont like those who make the rules…
if i could i’d herd all those whom i didnt like into a container and leave them to bake in the afghani sun..
but then that would be a war crime … just like what american allies out there have done… in the name of freedom.. which they have no intrinsic respect anywhere for.. yours or mine…
dont be fooled by specious arguments about us and them….( or even U.S and them )
its all us.. and you have to get it right without compromise…at least intellectually by way of analysis…
enjoy noam chomsky.. he’s better than osho at that sort of thing… but in the same ball park…
you wont be able to change the world .. but you’ll be more cosy in it, knowing what works and why….
http://www.therightscoop.com/donald-trump-id-love-a-trade-war-with-china
and check your history shantam of US business interwar support for the Nazis against the Communists ..which led to war.. as i mentioned many months ago…
please be informed..
the danger of complacency in public debate, is that the hegemony of the west ossifies and degenerates..thats what impervious controlled ‘debate’ represents. ….because it no longer has faith in its humanist sources..
remember all the best information comes from comprehensive analysis of how the other side thinks and then sabotaging them…otherwise why would the establishment spend so much energy in defining its absolutism if it didnt understand the risk of being uncovered…
please respect osho’s insights .. if you want to enjoy his unmarbled samadhi legacy.. and turn your sights on everything…
Bubbie, I traded my little boat. Arrived in Kenya and got news I sold part of my real estate development in Florida
(remember where I am keeping my slaves). So I gambled a bit here in the local casino and then traded up to a great yacht with four cabins. Wanna join? It sunny here.
Lokesh is also invited, lots of sharks to swim with.
Acracadabra…..
Shahriar: By the way, is that lecture where Osho talks about black magic being practiced on him available? do you know what the name is prem bubbie? (or anyone else.)
Yes, that discourse is number 13 in a set of discourses entitled ‘Witchs, goblins and necrophilliacs I have known’.
Oh oh, Shantam is now entering his prophet of doom phase…following in the master’s footsteps, I suppose. What is next, ‘AIDS will kill two thirds of the world’s population? Wear a neoprene diving suit when making love? Don’t throw cigarette butts out of the window.
Chinmaya—is also entering his prophet of doom phase…world war, 2012, my dick came off when I washing it with dettol.
Anand, I’m on my way.
me too,sailor boy…
have you got seaman staines on board?
roger the cabin boy?
and what of captain pugwash?
still intact?
P.M. I just hired “Thing” to track you down and give you a hand job!! It’s been awhile since you’ve wanked so… call it a freebie.
Grandma-ma is available… how about it son? Quick, the holiday sale is about to end.
“Osho having a long record of being rational and scientific”… Oh yeah? I assume his jokes were based on rational and scientific techniques…. he has way too many lectures regarding the ancient meditation techniques, just the discourses on buddha’s meditations proves that, also his discourses on the esoteric, printed as,”Psychology of the Esoteric”… so Shar-iar and P.M. learn how to read please, then comment. I just love how you make shit up…. Some of us weren’t born in Kansas… douches!!!
No, Shantam but i did piss all over the floor once, in my mother’s bathroom… too many phenobarbitals and beer!!!
P.M. you say- “I don’t like at least 50 per cent of the people on a good day”… Hmmmm… that nails it on the head with regards to where your head/heart is at… do the other 50 per cent a favor… STAY THE FUCK HOME!!!! (and bounce of the walls– it’ll shake off the woodpeckers at least)
Over to you Bubbie…Eurolandia is shutting down. ZZZZzzzzz…
Nighty Night Lokoesh…. sweet dreams are made of these… It’s snowing in Northern Scotland…. Dream of snowy hills, and Scotch that chills- on the bonnie bonnie banks of loch lomond. Skoll.
Brrrrrrrr…….
Oh oh, Shantam is now entering his prophet of doom phase…following in the master’s footsteps, I suppose…
No it will be disregard for the Master If disciples commit the similar mistakes….It is no harm to admit that Osho failed miserably in the prophacy sector, and those who think, knowing oneself means, having the exact number of armpit hairs..will feel disappointed…
I think someone should propagate that if you do certain medittaion regularly, as a woman you will not require to go through waxing will be abig success..
Without prophacy also, i think..a War is over due…
Because so called Afghan or Iraq war were not wars at all, they were the aggression of a million time stronger force..
This one can see how millions of people in the developed world are so much eagerly waiting for some dramatic outcome in 2012…
How the compassionate existance can disappoint the collective wish for its chosen people..
Noam Chomsky….
Martyn..This guy is amazing..It will not be inappropriate to call him J. Krishnamurti of the west..
but the problem with us human beings is that we want to hear only the people who claim to be a prophet of some kind…Some incarnated souls…some esoteric bullshit effect us in a way we feel touched by the movies based on the theme of Orphans…
Without offending to the disciples..i just want to know..whether they really believe that Ms. M. Meera or Amma or Sri Bhagwann kind of Indians are really the incarnation of God…
If it is so…
i prefer to be atheist…
Unfortunately though, Shantam, if yiou have zero experience of something or someone whatever you say about it or them is necessarily completely without authority, significance or meaning.
Better just to shut up and look for an honest way to spend your time…
Take that as my Xmas present, in advance, ok?!
Chinmaya:
Days are not far off when North Korea with its Atom Bomb power and large Military Force plus the full support of China is going to attack South Korea. And who knows, this will take the shape of World War in the near future, viz. by 2012. Because it will not be tolerated by America and allies
SD:
What total and utter nonsense, Chinmaya, to imagine China would bother to risk its ever-growing global economic power by getting involved in this!
Wake up to that reality, even if others are beyond you – please!
FAO Bubbie:
As for your ranting ‘n’ raving earlier, you seem to have missed the whole point, this being that the moral flaw leading to the demise of our (here we go, deep breath) ‘western intellectual materialist civilisation’ is that its implicit ‘promise’, that it has all the answers that anyone could ever need, is being proven to be not the case.
The blindingly obvious example being the huge gaps (undiminishing, due to lack of adequate will) between the ‘haves’ and the ‘have nots’, on any scale you want : intra-national, international, continental, global…
And the threat posed by Islamic fundamentalism / terrorism is bound up in that as well, they much prefer their own answers, thanks very much!
I do believe your SHOUTING prevents you actually ‘listening’ closely enough.
And Bubbie, as for saying ‘Osho shagged hundreds of chicks during the 70′s’…well, it kinda makes for ‘good copy’, as they say in newspapers – but it somehow fails to make the ring of truth for me.
If only because we’d have heard FAR more about it from those at the, er, ‘sharp end’, if you get my drift…
You are partial at times to a dose or two of sensationalist nonsense, aren’t you?!
Keeps the nervous system running high, I guess….
“FAO Bubbie”- if you mean Financial Aid Officer Bubbie, you got the right guy… anything else, keep on looking… Do you need a loan? Cheap… interest rate for you just 50% – a day… come on, what are you waiting for? Your legs won’t be broken until the 3rd day past due… can’t get a better deal than that… It’s Christmas, for christ’s sake!!
Even osho admits -”all pussy feels the same”… a quote from one of lectures….as for the western/eastern nonsense… that it is,.. if not the “capitalist”game, then it would be some other “game” we would play… choose your poison sir…. “Thank you sir, may I have another”animal house-1978) That’s so…. Fuckengruven man!! -(Volkswagen-1993)
What are you all talking about? Osho never had sex, he had transcened sex. He only took girls into his room to impart the secrets of meditation to them and to whisper the mantra in their ear.
P.S. you don’t think it was only 93 rolls royces he had do you?
it turns out the ps was stating the obvious so nevermind.
S D beta,
Just wait, 2010 is not too far. And who will bother for economy up-trend or down trend.
Enjoy writing watever you feel good and like minded people here to pass adverse remarks against Osho, if you think you know better than Osho, then, why you could not come out beyond Osho with His multi-directional approach; and forget Osho, and do not bother for Him, and do not give His references. Neglect Him. You have more love, attachment and connexion with Osho than normal sanyasins.
Evaluate at international political game and not pissing in the mamma’s bath room and making fun of every one.
SD, you hav enot answered honestly, ” How so ever good and beautiful spirited people Amma´s, M Meera and few others may be.on what basis these people can claim to be the messangers of God, who come to earth to save the drowning humanity..
On what basis you buy this utter non sense?
Does it all depends upon the neediness of the receiver?
Does inner flowering and meditation is such a phenomenon that it flourishes with the outer help of some body else…
In that case, who was pumping the chest of these great men and women…?
bubbie
please go to life and death blog for a reply from me..
i actually think we should all move over to that one.. but i guess people are being scared off by the sincerity of the header article..
we cant just muck about….its death for chrissake.—
So that we can move to the other article…
the Epilogue-
The Concept of “Ashram”
from : http://oshoworld.com/onlinemag/nov10/htm/care_for_earth.asp#1
The Eastern sage used to move into nature because there, God is more present. Man has not yet interfered. It is difficult to find God on an asphalt road, howsoever hard you look. You will not even find a glimpse. It is very difficult to find God in a factory — difficult, very difficult — because the human noise is too much. The mechanical, the technological, is too much; the natural has gone far away.
I have heard….
There was a survey in London, and a million children reported that they had never seen a cow.
Now this is too much: a million children have never seen a cow? How will they ever be able to understand what God is if they have never looked into the eyes of a cow? God is more crystal-clear in the eyes of a cow than in the eyes of a pope or a SHANKARACHARYA. One million children have not seen a cow? Now these one million children will suffer tremendously. There are thousands and thousands of people who have never seen the Himalayas, the snow-covered peaks, the eternal snow — virgin, never trod upon. There, God is still more present, is more throbbing, alive; man has not destroyed yet.
The Eastern sages moved into the forest, not because they were against the world but because they wanted to really know the world that God had created, uninterfered with by man. The Eastern word `ashram’ is beautiful: it means rest. You have lived in the world, you have known the world; now to rest you go to an ashram. You have seen the world — the ugliness of it, the futility of it, the uselessness of it, the meaninglessness of it — now you would like to rest. Now you go deep into the forest, you sit under the shady trees, you listen to the murmur of the brooks and the song of the birds, and you see the sunrays playing on the treetops in the morning, and you watch the silent stars. You relax. By-and-by, you relax into your nature with the help of nature outside you. It becomes a harmony — the inner nature and the outer nature. You start playing with the outer nature. It is not a seeking; a Hindu ashram is not seeking. It is a place to rest.
Seek, and you will never find — because the very seeking makes you tense. The East says: Seek not, and He will find you. Seek and you will never find, seek and you will seek in vain. Blessed are those who can rest in prayer, who can rest and trust, and who can say, “Okay, whenever you feel like coming, come. I am not in a hurry.” The East is not in a hurry, the East has no time-consciousness. It says, “Okay, if in this life, good; and if you decide to come next life, good. You will find me still here. There is no hurry.”
The West is too much in a hurry. In the West the concept of one life has made such a tense knot in the human mind. Only one life? — seventy years? — three score and ten years, and finished? And of these seventy years, twenty-five years are lost in education, for almost twenty-five years you will be sleeping, and for the remainder, shaving and going to the office, coming from the office… and the traffic and the conflict and the children and the court and the divorce — all these things. What is left? If you count everything, you will be simply surprised: not even seven minutes are left for God. A great hurry arises: move fast! Do something! Otherwise, how will you find God?
God is not something to be found. It is something you relax in, it is an inner space. When you are not, it is there. And when you are not, you are only not when you are not a seeker. The seeker holds you as an ego. WHO is seeking?
The ashram is a totally different concept: you relax, you just be. You do small things. You feel hungry — you eat. You feel tired — you go to sleep, with no hurry, with no worry. You just allow God to come in His own way, in His own time. This is the concept of the ashram.
Business as usual. Chinmaya is obviously in his time traveller phase, into the past it would seem, going by the following statement: Just wait, 2010 is not too far.
Shahriar (are you a Shite Muslim?) continues to display his total lack of knowledge in the realm of sannyas lore. Osho did not shag lots of girls in the 70s…this is utter nonsense….and even if he did so what?
Shahriar, don’t even attempt to steal the chump crown from Shantam, you’ll fail miserably. I’ll leave you with a quote from our hero of lunacy….be warned, it is a Koan of brain-busting proportions.
‘I think someone should propagate that if you do certain medittaion regularly, as a woman you will not require to go through waxing will be abig success..’
No Lokesh I am not a muslim at all, whether sunni or shite. I am an atheist, and I regard myself as a Nietzschean. I do agree with much of what Ayn Rand says, but I have my own views which Ayn Rand may or may not agree with so I cannot call myself an Objectivist.
I do disagree with your statement that Osho did not shag many women in the 70s. He has been shagging many women throughout his whole life. You don’t think Osho was a celibate do you? Celibacy is unnatural. Of course, while having sex he remained a witness, he did not lose the witnessing consciousness but this does not mean that he did not have sex, in the same way that he remained a witness while driving his rolls royces. And anyways he has always said that he was bringing a new type of sannyas, and that he was fighting for the new man. It is foolish to expect him to preach the new man but still expect him to behave like the old man and remain sexually suppressed among other things. He just kept his affairs with women a secret thats all. (as far as I know, no woman has made claims of having slept with him.)
Dear Shantam,
These Amma or Famma or M are flowing from inside are suffering from Postpartum menupause and stinking with skanty flow and some time heavily, what they are to for other. In fact, they have been kicked out by the fuckers and/or husbands and some mafia groups developed them to sit on the dias with their finance and be fool the innocent congregation, which are not allowed to meet and discuss with these Amma for five minutes, about their well being. But as obedient student of Mafia group, they continue sitting and speak to whatever is asked by the Mafia to speak, but for the sake of money and not for the spiritual growth or Meditation.
Lokesh dear,
My mistake, it is not 2010, but 2012.
Men sitting at the power position are ready to totally smash the world, but it will include them, which restrict them to waiting but they are sitting with full of rashes and rabbies of ego.
I forgot to say that even though I cannot call myself an objectivist, I am for objectivism.
Of course, while having sex he remained a witness, he did not lose the witnessing consciousness but this does not mean that he did not have sex….
Shahriar….
You seem to be a young men with good analytical brain and a nice imagination..
So in the privacy of your room, try to imagine Sheela, the young, gorgeous and innocent looking babe in early 1970´s with Bhagwan of that time, enjoying the 11, 21 or 31 minutes of sex. Osho was not that busy during that period and also hada robost health..
Add few minutes of 69 also according to your imagination…
and in the end..please remember.. just by spending around 150 or 200 dollers on Osho´s books does not make Him the prisioner of your imagination and wishful thinking..
“and in the end..please remember.. just by spending around 150 or 200 dollers on Osho´s books does not make Him the prisioner of your imagination and wishful thinking..”
Do you mean to imply that it is simply my imagination when I say Osho had sex and that he in fact did not have sex? I did not say that he had sex with anyone in particular, but I did say that he had sex.
Shariar, you are out of your depth in the subjects that you are blundering about in. Whether or not Osho had a sex life is not the point. The fact is that Osho did not have sex with lots of women in the seventies…well, at least not during 1974-1981. You are dealing in hearsay. Anyway, what differance does it make to anyone’s life if he had sex or did not. Even had he been shagging donkeys it would not make any difference to anyone’s life…except the donkey’s, maybe.
So, yes, Shantam is right on the button…a serious case of over-imagination. You say you are an objectivist but a lot of what you say is an obvious projection of your murky subjectivity. Keep this shite up and you’ll win the crown from Shantam, who responded very well to your nonsense.
Pune phase of 1974-1981, Lokesh was a active participant of those days..I think during this period Osho has given hundreds of master piece discourses in Hindi and English before His sannyasins…
Contemprarory sannyasins of that time, i have heard had good dose of unemotional sex…and many have realised..Sex without intimacy, without bonding..without commitment is not fullfilling…
Reaching on centuries old conclusions with one´s own experience…
At 1981, Osho was of 50, had developed many cronic health problems..famous gas cylinders were emptied to mitigate this chronic suffering..
and than 1985 onwards, life and death fight in a torturoulsy painful body, thanks to the posion incident..
And history knows…Viagara was not in the market during Osho´s life time…
Secondly…one can look in the historical contexts, The prophet of 14 centuires before had, as per the stories nine wives… Osama even in the Afgan caves was making his wives pregnent…does these experience makes them a doctor of sex to super consiousness…
The playboy owner has unlimted supply of sex..does he should be treated as the wisest guy in the spiritual field..
And i remember Buddha..who as per the PR stories had enormous possiblities to enjoy sex..and one can ask..how come he had only one son when there were no contraceptive means available…His women must be experts in gulping down…
In the end….it is an unsurpassable contribution of Osho…that seekers of truths have no compulsion to feel guilty about sex or sex related thoughts..
Finally spiritualty has come down in the hands of the holy sea called humanity…
shantam:
SD, you hav enot answered honestly, ” How so ever good and beautiful spirited people Amma´s, M Meera and few others may be.on what basis these people can claim to be the messangers of God, who come to earth to save the drowning humanity..
On what basis you buy this utter non sense?
Does it all depends upon the neediness of the receiver?
Does inner flowering and meditation is such a phenomenon that it flourishes with the outer help of some body else…
In that case, who was pumping the chest of these great men and women…?
SD:
Now, Shantam – How the hell am I supposed to know?!
Please don’t try to use me to promote your own ignorance, just carry on making an utter fool of yourself and accept the consequences, ok?
You’re of the East, a veritable son of Mother India – you should know the lingo by now, surely?!
Now off you go and ‘meditate’ on that, like a good boy….
What I am wondering is, when are Shantam and SD going to tie the knot. They already sound like they’ve been old-style married for twenty years and it brings me much laughter.
Keep up the good work.
So it’s been worth it after all – that’s made my day, has that!
Hah hah hah!!
(Now Shantam, where’s my lunch?!).
Great insight, Lokesh…
Pity…Both of us( i presume)..are not from the dust.. Mrs.Elton john kind of people are made of..
Plenty of them round these parts…fine by me as they are often, witty, sensitive and intelligent people…who like to dance.
Hey, Shantam – I’m the guy, right? (You’re the lady)….
“Spending 150 or 200 dollars on osho books…” shar-iar, you’re getting ripped off!!! just check out amazon.com and you’ll spend less than half that amount for used 1st editions (before RFI started censoring)….. You definitely not a New York Jew!!!
You= you’re
talking about indian law and order……….
Indians are poor but India is not a poor country”. Says one of the swiss bank directors. He says that “280 lacs crore (280,00,000,000,0000) of Indian rupees is deposited in swiss banks which can be used for ‘taxless’ budget for 30 yrs. Can give 60 crore jobs to all Indians. From any village to Delhi 4 lane roads. Forever free supply to more than 500 social projects. Every citizen can get monthly 2000/- for 60 yrs. No need of world bank & IMF loan. Think how our money is blocked by rich politicians. We have full right against corrupt politicians. Don’t forget CWGames…..Adarsh building Ghotala…..latest 2g spectrum telecommunication ghotala….
>
> Itna forward karo ki pura INDIA padhe. Take this seriously, you can forward jokes, then why not this
The amount in rupees will be( 6 00,000,000,0000 ) US Dollers..
This much black money God fearing rich and powerful Indians have in the foreign banks..
Very Good Karma from the past life…
Krishna Krishna Hare Rama…..
What Krishana and what Rama,
They are dead thousands years ago. Many say, it was only Epics and no reality prevails at the background. That is why they are unable to persuade Indians to declare or bring back the said amount, which can be a great source to make up the economic short-comings for the development of those, who are living and sleeping without food. Where are these Gods -these people, who can not understand the food adulteration and much more and are feeling happy, if they exist somehwere in the cosmos.
They were simply human beings like others from the womb of mothers. One fought for the sake of land and provoked his disciple Arjuna to fight against the second party, which could come out with millions of orphans and millions of widows but nobody takes the responsibility, what to talk of punishing, rather people worship.
Second fought for the sake of bringing back his wife and even sought the help of animals, like monkeys.
In this episode also many millions were killed and who knows brought back wife as used or not.
Karma or no karma, is simply one theory, which is not acceptable by the people in various communites of the world, at large.
Shocking, Chinmaya, absolutely shocking…
You’re nothing but a…a…a…er…heretic – that’s what you are!
politicians every year go to geneva ,swiss and indian public believes that they are going there to discuss human righs in geneva, they do not know that politicians never cares about human rights, all they care is there four or eight years term in politics and for those few years they would do anything………..
and public is so stupid that they vote for them . only way to make change in india is boycott voting and say enough is enough to those dirty politicians
i am indian and i am 36 years old, i never voted and i will never vote. it is easy to choose between two good persons , but very hard to choose between two idoits……………..
Politicians and Governments are chosed with the voting of idiots/stupids and not by intelligent ppl. So, your decision is absolutely supported with affirmation. It is like a business game, to invest on election and later, earn and loot whatever they can with their cunnings. To worship the killers treating as Gods.
And this cunnings is the nature of your country since ancient years. As is the nature of the people of India since thousands of years to lie and utterly lie, steal the wives of other (Sita), to maintain wives more than socially and religiously allowed (Dashrath) and to use the brother’s wife (Darioadi) by brothers, who are not the husband (s) of this pretty and pious lady; to kill the brothers for the sake of throne (in Mughals),; Bali and Sugreev; to kill the innocent people during 1984 riots in thousands for which the FIR is not lodged till date; and not to accept the legally and constitutionally wedded wife Sonia to Rajiv Gandhi, for the purpose of being PM, whereas now she is more than a PM.