Osho: driving the Chase Car

The author of this piece Deva Peter (American)’s, job,  was to be the follow up (chase)  driver to Osho when he went on his daily drives around Rajneeshpuram,  and also for a while when he took his Rolls on to the public highway. He quits his job finally because of what he sees as risks to Osho’s safety, which is salutary, because it must have made him very unpopular with the ruling elite there!

He writes in a book called 93 Rolls Royces:

Being with Osho on the ride is an example of my total trust in him. Much of the ride takes place on narrow, two-lane, low-speed-limit mountain roads. Osho loves to go fast and often crosses into the opposite lane, passing the driver in front of him, going around blind curves.


I make the conscious choice to follow him no matter what; to trust his knowing whether or not it is safe to pass. To trust whether he can sense whether another vehicle is coming the other way on the two-lane road. Often he is not able to physically see what is around the bend.

Approaching many of the blind curves, he does not pass – and there would often be a car coming the other way.

For me, being with Osho is always about the teaching, rather than the event itself. I am aware that it doesn’t really have to do with us being out there driving like crazies. It’s a teaching in trusting my inner knowing, regardless of the circumstances. The Master Sosan says, “Stop talking and thinking and there is nothing you will not be able to know.”

After leaving the Ranch, Osho takes the two-lane highway to the nearby town of Madras. On that road, he can really push the Rolls to the max. At one point we had a communication code between his car and the chase car using CB radios. I once got into trouble because I couldn’t use the existing code we had developed for telling him how fast he was going. Why? Because he was going faster than the code allowed – it was over 85, for sure.

I think the speedometer on the GMC only went to 85 in those days. He was burying the speedometer on the Rolls and I couldn’t say how fast he was going. So I said that over the air and got into hot water.

On another ride, I’ve got Harry (a cop with “real world” experience) in the car with me. He has a speed gun aimed on the Rolls to measure Osho’s speed, but throws it in the back seat, saying, “It’s the wrong instrument” for this job. I love Harry – a very cool guy.

One time the trunk opens on the ride. Osho stops at a stop sign and the trunk lid is bobbing up and down. I am in the chase car, so I radio ahead and say, “Wait there for a minute. I’m going to have to come up and close the trunk.”

The reason the trunk is open is because the battery is in the trunk. With so many Rollses, each car sits for quite a while before it comes up in the rotation. So, Avesh and Anandadas need to recharge the battery before a car is used. When they serviced the battery that day, they forgot to close the trunk lid securely. That’s why it’s bobbing up and down.

Only after the Ranch do I learn that the battery put in the cars at the factory is a “slave battery.” It’s the dealer’s responsibility to put a larger amperage battery in before delivery to the customer. For some reason – maybe because the Ranch wants the cars so quickly – that upgrade never happens.

Not only does the battery need to be charged from sitting, but it’s so small it requires constant recharging by the alternator. The alternator does not operate when the car is idling at low rpm, like when Osho drives slowly, greeting his disciples along the road. Occasionally, especially during the summer when Osho uses the air conditioning, the car stalls.

That happens during one summer festival, when there are thousands of visitors greeting Osho along the side of the road during his drive-by. I am up at the garages when the call comes in asking me to bring Osho another car. The car’s battery has died!

When I arrive on the scene, Osho emerges from his car and stands among a throng of his disciples, grinning, his arms raised, encouraging his people to continue singing and dancing. Talk about a security nightmare! Finally he makes his way to the replacement car and continues along his way.

Avesh deals with the problem by setting the idle higher. However, that means Osho has to ride his brakes, causing them to squeak. The easy solution would be to requisition larger batteries for the cars. It doesn’t happen. Why? I dunno. It’s not my business.

An even more frightening incident happens one day when Osho is in Madras. This time, Anandadas is in the chase car when Osho pulls away from the curb after stopping to have a snack in his car. He darts from his parking space across two lanes into traffic.

Because Anandadas can’t get behind him fast enough, a pickup truck pulls in behind Osho and has to slam on his brakes to avoid ass-ending the Rolls. Can you imagine if Osho had gotten ass-ended?

Osho realizes how scary that incident has been for Anandadas. Back at the Ranch, Osho asks Avesh and me to meet with him in his room. He gives us a bottle of wine to give to Anandadas along with a message for him “not to worry” about Osho getting hurt on the ride.

Then Osho relates a story about a time when he was in India and his driver went off the road and the car rolled onto its side. Osho was in the back seat and could smell gasoline. He nudged the driver and told him to get out of the car, saying, “The car’s going to explode.” The driver said, “I can’t. I’m dead!” Osho said, “You’re not dead. If you were dead, you wouldn’t be able to hear me!”

Finally, the driver got out and was able to help Osho out. Osho tells Avesh and me to “tell Anandadas, ‘If I was going to die in a car accident, I would have died then.’ So, not to worry about me on the ride.” To me, it’s another example of Osho’s profound compassion for a disciple.

On another occasion, on one of the back roads, I am the driver for the chase car and Bob, one of the original Ranch property managers, is riding with me. He is not armed. We are stopped by two carloads of goofy teenage kids, one in front of us, one behind us, and they slow down to the point Osho has to stop.

We are pinned in. They jeer and give him the finger. Just being goofs, but to me it is very disturbing, to say the least, that helpless kind of feeling. Osho doesn’t seem disturbed, but Vivek looks quite upset. We are helpless to do anything about it.

After about ten minutes or so, after blowing off steam, the teenagers pull away and let us move on. To me it is totally unacceptable to be in a situation like that. So I go to Vidya, complaining that the ride is unsafe and not properly equipped to deal with such an episode, or worse.

I go with a list of complaints and an ultimatum that I would quit unless they follow my recommendations, such as having an armed person on the ride, a camera with telephoto lens, binoculars. They don’t adopt my recommendations fast enough, plus nobody is taking my advice on things, so I quit the ride.

Later they do implement my recommendations, but they go totally overboard: to having three chase cars, to Osho being wired to a machine reading out his vital signs, to having a car with not only a doctor but also a lawyer. Three cars on the ride, one for security, one for medical, one for legal.

By that time I am long finished with the ride and just focused on my painting work. At first going on the ride was fun – like an escape from the Ranch. But eventually it got so intense that it wasn’t fun anymore. As time went on, and Osho’s safety was more threatened, I was glad to be done with it. I wasn’t on the ride more than ten times.

Anyway, by the end it is decided Osho won’t go outside the Ranch on his rides. Sannyasin crews develop the pine forest road for him, so our Master can speed around the Ranch without getting hassled!

After all is said and done, I like to think I have a positive impact on Osho’s safety on the ride, through my bitching and moaning. To say the least, I am really a pain in the ass to all the powers that be on the Ranch. This I know. The real issue is the safety of our Master. It is something of a miracle that he emerges from his driving adventures unscathed!


peter-tnBorn in 1945, Deva Peter was raised in Chicago, Illinois, USA. He trained and worked as a professional auto mechanic, welder, boat builder and custom car painter. He took sannyas in Poona, in February 1981 and was invited to the Ranch that year. Osho’s Rolls-Royces were the most extraordinary custom paint jobs Peter completed. He currently enjoys retired life with Avalon (Ma Devagarbha) in Colorado, living close to their daughter, her husband, and two granddaughters, who are the light of his life. phaykus (at) outlook.com

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140 Responses to Osho: driving the Chase Car

  1. frank says:

    Peter says,
    “…a pick-up truck pulls in behind Osho and has to slam on his brakes to avoid ass-ending the Rolls. Can you imagine if Osho had gotten ass-ended?”

    Yes, he would have become an Ass-ended Master!

  2. preetam says:

    Really, Osho should be more careful, he is not an earthly deity as the queen is. For her, all streets would have been closed.

    People do not have much humour or sarcasm – I forgot we are spiritual-rationalists.

    Let our Master race…Rig Veda speaks about someone who is riding a wagon without horses.

  3. swami anand anubodh says:

    Does anybody know if Osho actually had a valid drivers licence?

    If he used an Indian one then this Youtube vid must be true:
    Driving tests in India – the easiest test in the world!

    (Perhaps Shantam Prem or Kavita can confirm? And if it is true then maybe SP, you can treat us to a weird metaphor that sums up the Indian test and also bashes the Resort).

  4. Kavita says:

    I am guessing Osho didn’t have a licence; probably in 1950s, when Osho actually started driving, there was hardly any vehicular traffic on Jabalpur roads, it was more like India’s primitive driving days, even in big cities!

    • Parmartha says:

      Did Gurdjieff have a driving licence? Maybe Lokesh knows. He also liked driving a lot but had, I think, three serious accidents, one of which almost killed him?

      Osho went sometimes on the public highway in America, not only in Oregon, but when he first arrived on the east coast, before the Ranch.
      One assumes he would have had some kind of licence for that? Maybe a provisional one? Might be interesting to find out, if anyone knows.

      • swamishanti says:

        I have heard that Osho had to resit some kind of test in order to drive again in the U.S.

        What I would ask Osho is, is this a good example to set for your followers? Driving beyond the limit, speeding fines.
        Giving away bottles of wine to sannyasins?(encouraging drinking?).

        And some of his sannyasins, ones who felt that they had found enlightenment, also copied Osho and got into trouble for speeding.
        Madhukar Thompson died in a road accident.

        Maitreya Ishwara got busted for speeding in N.Z:

        And Osho was said to be copying Gurdgieff, who drove like a madman.

        • preetam says:

          Who is interested in their laws? Maybe the 99% which brings them the money to make Wars according to their laws.

          • satyadeva says:

            I trust, Preetam, you’ll still repeat this as confidently should you be run over by a speeding car on the wrong side of the road, driven by a drunk. Or if you’re mugged one day, attacked and left bleeding, or worse, in the gutter, or if your home is burgled.

            Like all obsessives, you tend to lack common sense at times.

            • preetam says:

              Life is always dangerous, SD.

              I live in a country where almost my whole family has been destroyed by war and wall. War done by the same gang who now again kill our children. In legal sense – them making also traffic laws.

              How to stand this without alcohol and how to come later home drunk, by walking is not possible – but driving!

              Maybe Osho would have loved those private car races in the night. But a RR is off, too heavy, something with more power and less weight.

              destroyed by…wall – MEANING, PLEASE, Preetam?

              • preetam says:

                Families were split apart from each other through the wall, also ours. Splitting is another way of destruction, with less blood.

                the wall – WHAT wall, Preetam?

              • swamishanti says:

                I remember a trip up to Somerset, from a shared house in Brighton, a group of us piled into a van, and in another vehicle our driver was a Frenchman. Indian drivers are mad but French drivers can be just as crazy.

                It was someone’s idea to visit a protest camp in Whatley Quarry for a few days, then visit some friends in the Forest of Dean.

                Our French friend was a crazy driver,and was taking swigs of someone’s wine on the way up there, which I thought was bad enough, but when we got to the camp at Dead Woman’s Bottom, he came across a large amount of magic mushrooms. We had arrived right in the middle of the season and people had been out picking in the fields.

                There were many people camped up there, and lots of woods. After a couple of days we decided it was time to move on. But our French friend was nowhere to be found.

                Eventually, we found him excitedly yelling, “Riba!Riba!” and running through the woods, somewhere, high as a kite.

                We all piled into a couple of vehicles, which included his van.

                The journey from Somerset to the Forest really was a crazy one. Our French driver was only narrowly avoiding hitting other vehicles.
                “Brake, you idiot!” came cries from the back.
                Sometimes he got confused on the motorway.
                People were shaking their heads with disbelief.

                At one point, close to the Welsh border, he reversed the whole way around a roundabout, a manoeuvre which many of us had never seen before.

                At one point we needed to visit the atm, he drove very fast almost right into the cashpoint, only just missing hitting the wall.

                I remember the most beautiful sunset crossing through Chepstow. We also broke down on the Severn Bridge for a while and a bong was passed round.

                All in all, a crazy part of a journey that I’ll never forget.

                • swamishanti says:

                  I should mention here that the French driver , although inebriated and intoxicated ,did have quite a high level of awareness.

                  Which probably explains how he was able to trust himself driving under the influence.

                  He was French,after all.

                  Perhaps the situation was similar to that of Osho driving or Gurdjieff.

                • swami anand anubodh says:

                  A salutary warning before your next road trip:
                  If you are knowingly in a vehicle driven by a drunk, then passengers can also be held responsible in the event of an accident. Allowing the driver swigs of wine is ‘aiding and abetting’.

                  Sorry to be a party pooper.

                • swamishanti says:

                  Well it was a long time ago, but the French do have a much more relaxed attitude to drinking:


                  I hear they have recently toughened up the laws in France. Actually he wasn’t drinking the whole way up there, just at the beginning of the journey.

                • swami anand anubodh says:

                  Fair enough, SS, in that case let’s just hope the accident happens at the end of the journey when the driver has had time to sober up.

              • satyadeva says:

                “War done by the same gang who now again kill our children. In legal sense – them making also traffic laws.

                How to stand this without alcohol and how to come later home drunk, by walking is not possible – but driving!”

                So the authorities are responsible for young people going out and getting drunk and then killing themselves through reckless driving? You really believe this?

                Do you think that’s seeing the situation as it actually is?

      • Lokesh says:

        I just had Mr G on the hotline. He says he does have driving licence but I think he was lying.

  5. samarpan says:

    “What I would ask Osho is, is this a good example to set for your followers?” (Swamishanti).

    “Stop seeking: that is the only way to find God. Stop desiring: that is the only way to find God.
    I am giving you an insight, not a religion. And you are not my followers, remember, Zareen. Nobody here is my follower – friends, of course, but nobody is a follower.” (Osho, ‘Be Still and Know’, Chap. 6).

    • frank says:

      With a quote to solve all life`s problems, you sound like Sam Lucas, the Jehovah`s Witness.

      You were a born-again Christian, weren’t you?

      You can take the boy out of the church but you can`t take the church out of the boy!

      Praise the Lord!

  6. Lokesh says:

    I found the article interesting, although I’m sure not for the intended reasons.

    Part of it supplies material for the myth building that was going on even before Osho left the building. The old boy overtaking on bends like he has his sixth sense turned on. Don’t try that at home, folks. I think he was just lucky he didn’t kill someone.

    Pete’s writing style leaves a lot to be desired. He could have at least substituted some words instead of constantly repeating “the ride”.

    I find it to be naive to interpret Osho’s giving a bottle of plonk to someone because he’s been driving like an idiot as, and I quote, “another example of Osho’s profound compassion for a disciple.”

    Really, man, how fucking trite. If we take that statement as an indication of how perceptive a man Swami Peter is it does not bode well for a man delivering insights about relatively unknown segments of Osho’s life.

    In a way, it all sounds typically American. In other words, as superficial as fuck.

    • shantam prem says:

      It was said about CNN, “Miles long, Skin deep.”
      Is this the speciality of Americans: more money, more flow with words and less depth?

      • frank says:

        I love the States, but yeah, some of those guys…
        I remember at a Greyhound station somewhere in the mid-West:
        “Where you guys from?”
        I answer, “London.”
        “Uh, do they speak English there?”
        “Er, yeah, some of them.”

        Or my Belgian friend:
        “Where you from, buddie?”
        “Oh, where`s that?”
        “It`s in Northern Europe.”
        “How many people live there?”
        “About 10 million.”
        “Wow! Sounds like a hell of a town!”

        Or the couple I overheard in a hotel in Agra:
        “Come on honey, let’s go see the pyramids.”

        Or the Yanks at Runnymede:
        The tour guide says:
        “This is where the Magna Carta was signed in 1215.”
        The American looks at his watch and says
        “Darn it, we just missed it by 20 minutes.”

  7. swami anand anubodh says:

    It’s not entirely clear how Osho could possibly ‘sense’ an oncoming vehicle at a blind bend, yet not sense the rot setting in under his nose within Rajneeshpuram.

    • swamishanti says:

      I don’t know, but Indians do have a bizarre manner of driving, and I have been on long bus journeys in India where there have been many close collisions.

      Always driving at the maximum possible speed, “Horn ok please” is the mantra that somehow keeps things going.

      I’ve been in a couple of hair-raising journeys through the mountains, the driver going at maximum speed right next to the side of a huge ravine, the bus overloaded with baggage on the roof.

      Sometimes you could look down and see the skeleton wreckage of an old bus that must have come off the edge of the road and ended up in the valley below.

    • Lokesh says:

      Anubodh, you’re just unsurrendered.

      To be honest, that is exactly what I thought, Anubodh. There was a time when I believed that Osho really knew everything that was going on in his commune, and there was plenty of evidence to back it up. Things changed somewhere down the line.

      I think that this leads on to why Sheela wanted Osho to admit that he was just an ordinary man and not a real life incarnation of Doctor Strange or the Green Lantern.

      Some kids never grow up and they retain the need for super-heroes throughout their lives. Swami Peter was probably raised on comic books, being an American, and thus his need to see super powers or profound compassion in a simple act performed by his very own super hero, ‘Osho’.

      • swami anand anubodh says:

        Perhaps Osho was keen to get out in the Rollers because he was told they would have a full tank of gas, and he thought that meant N2O!

        • satchit says:

          Now this goes too far, Anubodh.

          Giving the impression as if the Master has dementia. Seems you have lost respect – better you drop sannyas!

          • swami anand anubodh says:


            I take the view that if you behave like a fool, then don’t complain if you are treated like a fool.

            Not even the Masters are exempt from that one-liner.

            • satchit says:

              You seem to be a bit quick in judging, Anubodh.

              Basically, you don’t know if he took the N2O because of foolish reasons.

              • satyadeva says:

                Perhaps he took it, at least partly, to help undermine or even destroy the image people tended to have of him as ‘perfect’, to make sure he’d never be regarded with that sort of ‘moral reverence’ and thus to avoid the possibility of any religion being created from his life and work.

                • frank says:

                  Of Trungpa, it is said (Wiki):
                  “He had a variety of experiences, including a car accident that led Trungpa to give up his monastic vows. He made that decision principally to mitigate students’ becoming distracted by exotic cultures and dress and to undercut their preconceptions of how a guru should behave. He drank, smoked, slept with students, and often kept students waiting for hours before giving teachings. Much of his behaviour has been construed as deliberately provocative and sparked controversy.”

                  Are they compassionate masters doing it for the disciples?
                  Are they blagsters pulling a fast one, sleight-of-handers running the oldest tricks in the book on gullible mugs?

                  Or maybe they are all dudes who like fast cars, fast women, cash, booze, pills, gas, doing a bit of theatre, and when it turns out it blows the disciples’ preconceptions too – it`s a bonus! Everyone`s happy in a big, psycho-spiritual win-win?

                • Parmartha says:

                  SD, you have a point.

                • satchit says:

                  Good idea, SD. Perhaps he did the reckless driving also to undermine his image of a perfectly aware, fully superconscious Master-no-mind.

                • frank says:

                  But really, how successful was it in blowing people`s reverence?

                  The author of this article, Deva Peter, is showing utter reverence with his magic-seeing-round-corners autobiography of Hari Potter fantasies which are being marketed by his book in 2018!

                  Plus: Just the idea that everything the guru does is right in the grand scheme of things puts you right in there with all the other guru belief systems. That`s what all the disciples of all the other gurus believe.

                  Total orthodoxy.

                • kusum says:

                  Satyadeva, Osho simply enjoyed his own life, that’s all. Even though he seems bit addicted to Rolls Royces. If somebody loves cars they collect various types & brands of cars. What is the point of having same type of car in multiple numbers as one can drive only one car at a time?

                • shantam prem says:

                  Those Indians who don’t want to create some kind of religion out of their work also don’t leave behind their ashes and over the top tombstone wordings, “Never Born Never Died”.

                  Surely Osho was not in the mood to create religion, just a cult was enough!

                  If people discuss 30 years later about the driving habits of Osho, what does it mean? Is it not religious feverishness, or what?

                • preetam says:

                  Do some people really think the master has an desire to own 99 RR? At what price were the cars actually sold, did not the value increase?

                • satchit says:

                  “If people discuss 30 years later about the driving habits of Osho, what does it mean? Is it not religious feverishness, or what?”

                  No, it’s entertainment.
                  What fever do you want to get out of your sannyas-religion, Shantam?

              • swami anand anubodh says:


                This string is about Osho’s reckless driving – so that was clearly my “foolish behaviour” reference. And then you said yourself (with good humour) I treated him with no respect (like a fool).

                How you have managed to construe I am making an ill-informed judgement on Osho’s N2O usage – I have no idea.

                • swamishanti says:

                  Geet said that when he was doing his teeth one day he introduced N2O, and Osho said, “This gas is good”. And he felt that it cooled his chest and asthma.

                  So perhaps that is the origin.

        • Lokesh says:

          Yes, I heard that Osho’s favourite tune back then was the Stones’ ‘Jumpin’ Jack Flash’.

          • frank says:

            You guys are missing the point.

            Swami Bhorat reliably informs me that the list of yogic siddhis became considerably updated by the dictates of the Babaji Nine Unknown Men of Ashoka Mystery School, Rishikesh, during the 20th century.

            They now include:
            Stopping trains (main and branch line), pretending to be drunk, manifesting high-end tech-Rolex, Rollers etc. Seeing round corners on blind bends was included. The siddhi of invisibility was updated to shagging and fondling female western disciples without anyone noticing (of course, many gurus have not completely mastered this one). The old eating snake venom without dying was deemed too old-fashioned and was replaced by taking gargantuan amounts of booze, fags, dope, pills, gas etc. etc. and still managing to stay alive. These siddhis were found to be facilitated by having own qualified medical team.

            Being able to command spirits to carry out orders was replaced by having a gang of criminally insane disciples backed up by a team of lawyers.

            In fact, gurus are constantly applying for new siddhis to be recognised. In the pipeline at the moment are the use of organic penises on disciples, online shaktipat, and the use of nirvanic additives in own brand noodles.

  8. preetam says:

    Driving on German highways…for Osho:

    Bit faster, but no RR…

  9. shantam prem says:

    Spiritual master born into a middle-class Indian cloth merchants family drives high-end cars purchased with disciples’ money in an American town built on his name: it is not less than a miracle.

    It is more than walking on water to impress educated people so much that they forget any rationality.

    • preetam says:

      You are right, swami, people are insane…they pay tax to build weapons for their own death – or do we think they are constructed to save humanity…another miracle?

      • shantam prem says:

        Preetam, if you are German, can read weekly column, in ‘Spiegel’ magazine with facts and figures, “world is becoming a better place to live.” Maybe it would help your wounded psychic and cynical outlook.

        It is because of high-tech weaponry that world has become a better place to live. It is never ever so peaceful on the Earth. We don’t have access to newspapers of Buddha’s time, otherwise it would have become clear, more wars and murders were taking place during that time in ratio with population of our time.

  10. shantam prem says:

    It has become almost a ritual, while ironing clothes, I listen to Osho.
    It was month or two ago, I have listened a randomly selected talk in Hindi, where Osho describes about his car accident. Car fell in the ditch upside down yet no passenger in the car even got scratch. This was divine prudence at its best and most probably for the disciples by the side, a kind of miracle.

    In May 2016, one very famous and successful Indian guru, ‘Nirankari Baba’ died in a car accident in Canada while on the tour to visit his followers spread in many countries.

    Baba was travelling with his two sons-in-law. One died with him in the same accident and the car was driven by the second one.

    I think miracles too have their unexpected times. They rarely happen.

    • satyadeva says:

      “Car fell in the ditch upside down yet no passenger in the car even got scratch. This was divine prudence at its best and most probably for the disciples by the side, a kind of miracle.”

      “divine prudence”, Shantam? Why not just simple ‘chance’, ‘good fortune’, ‘luck’?

      Because that sort of event is far from uncommon (eg it happened to some people I know) so why choose to make it ‘special’ just because it happened where Osho was involved?

      Making the “divine” responsible and/or likening it to a “miracle” is just an emotional response, understandable of course, but highly questionable in terms of cause-and-effect.

      But maybe such simple, mundane reality isn’t ‘glamorous’ enough for you, so you want to add some ‘mystery’ to entertain yourself, and perhaps to make yourself feel ‘special’ by association, as it were?

      • shantam prem says:

        Quote my post in total and tell then whether I have made something special or divine out of car accidents.

        With all the fairness, I have mentioned fatal car accident of some other’s people spiritual icon.

        “Divine prudence” is more or less synonymous of ‘chance’, ‘good fortune’, ‘luck’. Blessings is a bit more poetic way of saying to the placebo effect what few people feel in the presence of this or that.

        • satyadeva says:

          Ok, Shantam, but I suggest “divine prudence” is not accurate enough as it suggests an active role on the part of ‘The Whole’ (for want of a better term), “prudence” implying a considered choice, as in, for instance, “he handled his money with great prudence, as he was averse to risky investments.” Whereas ‘good fortune’, ‘chance’ or ‘luck’ just happens, out of a range of possibilities.

          So really, escaping from a potentially dangerous car accident unharmed is on a similar level to winning a prize in a lottery, the various levels of prizes being equivalent to the levels of danger (eg jackpot = escaping from a burning wreck after going unconscious and breaking a limb or two).

          • frank says:

            What is it with gurus and car crashes?

            Georgie G, Osho and Chogyam Trungpa too.
            Shortly after moving to Scotland in 1970, he drove off the road and straight through the front window of a joke shop near Newcastle.

            When I get to Nirvana I`m going to get hold of these guys and establish who really was the greatest master of all.

            First, a drinking and drugging competition to establish who was really the most capable at retaining full awareness whilst completely blotto on his drug(s) of choice.

            Then out on to the race track: Osho in his Rolls, Georgie in his Citroen, Chogyam in his Merc.
            Wacky races!
            First one to crash into a tree, flip over into a ditch or black-out at the wheel, wins!

  11. swami anand anubodh says:

    I expect some at SN HQ remember Swami Deva Pramada from 70s London, who played cello for Jeff Lynne in his Electric Light Orchestra. As you will know, he was killed in a road accident in 2010, but what is interesting is that not only does he have a Wikipedia page in his legal name, Mike Edwards, he is also listed on the Wiki page of those who had an unusual death:


    Seems Pramada was unenlightened.

    • Parmartha says:

      I remember him, and liked him.

      His death in a car smashed by a rolling hay bale was so improbable that it took one’s breath away.

      But what a (blessed?) contrast to the slow deaths of so many others….

  12. sw. veet (francesco) says:

    Like all professional drivers (trucks/buses) I’m always too critical when I’m a passenger.

    “Being with Osho on the ride” COULD BE “an example of my total trust in him”…
    Or it is just a sign of conformism to the idea, dominant in those days, of the Master’s superpowers.

    Given that it is true that Osho has never forced anyone to do something to please him, declaring, in fact, that the only way to betray him is not being yourself, then even to decide not to be on the ride is a way to trust Osho’s driving; ‘Rebel without a cause’, getting his understanding for ‘our cause’.

  13. Lokesh says:

    Veet declares, “It is true that Osho has never forced anyone to do something to please him.”

    That is absolute bullshit.

    • sw. veet (francesco) says:

      Then spit out the hairs, Lokesh.

      • Lokesh says:

        Veet, Osho often forced people to do things that they would not have done were he not behind it. Many times this worked to people’s benefit. Other times not. If you do not understand that then it’s not my place to explain it to you. Much of what I am pointing at is so obvious you’d have to be stupid not to see it.

        On a purely personal and selfish level Osho tried to force people to do things purely because he wanted something for himself. The most obvious examples would be his desire for more Rolls Royces. He was breaking the bank doing that and Sheela protested.

        Another example was when Osho wanted a $2,500,000 diamond-encrusted watch. Sheela told him the coffers were empty and he threw a tantrum, insisting he must have that watch. Don’t ask me why an apparently enlightened man wanted a watch like that to the point he got very upset about it, because I don’t know.

        As a friend pointed out to me in Lucknow, enlightened people still have personalities, sometimes very strange ones.

        • satyadeva says:

          Was Osho’s motivation to demonstrate to the world that spirituality and the trappings of wealth were compatible, even desirable, thus undermining conventional religious views, particularly Christian ones?

          Or, was it to sort of ‘attach’ himself to these things (surely mere baubles in the face of enlightenment?) in order to keep himself ‘in the body’, ie for his people’s benefit?

          Or, was this hankering after such ultimate symbols of wealth and status just an instance of an Eastern potentate’s traditional fascination for such ‘prizes’?

          Or, perhaps, a mixture of two or all three of these?

          • frank says:

            …or just continuing the traditions of mighty Bhorat?

            ‘Bejewelled Carriageways’
            By Amrit Dhillon

            Precious metal: Rolls-Royces in India were often modified with jewels and gold.

            Nothing but a Rolls-Royce or seven would do for the old maharajas of India, whether for flaunting their wealth, tiger hunting or important municipal tasks – such as collecting the rubbish. Amrit Dhillon reports
            Insane extravagance was a hallmark of India’s erstwhile royal families, from architecture, jewels, food and sex to the armies of servants employed in their palaces. Able to resist everything except temptation, the princes and maharajas swooned with desire on seeing the first Rolls-Royce. They succumbed to its charms immediately and never bored of it. It remained the queen of every royal automobile harem, presiding snootily over the lesser concubines – the Cadillacs, the Buicks and the Lincolns.
            In a new book, Rolls-Royce and the Indian Princes, published by Roli Books in New Delhi, motoring writer Murad Ali Baig recounts a hugely successful relationship. As the ultimate in luxury, the Rolls-Royce was a perfect match for the sybaritic lifestyle of the princes.
            More than 20,000 Rolls-Royces were built before the First World War and about 20 per cent of them were for India; it has been estimated that, on average, each maharaja had 3·5 Rollers. Since there were about 230 maharajas (excluding the minor ones), that means about 900 cars between 1908 and 1939.
            One of the most famous stories about the maharajas describes the exquisite pleasure of delayed revenge. The Maharaja of Alwar walked into a Mayfair car showroom in the 1920s and pointed to a Rolls-Royce Phantom II Tourer. He looked nondescript, almost shabby. The young salesman snubbed him, convinced the man was wasting his time. The maharaja asked for the manager. “I will have every one of these,” he said, pointing to seven cars. “But there is one condition – this young man escorts them to India.” The young man did so, much to the envy of his mates. On the appointed day, the cars were arrayed in front of the maharaja’s palace, paintwork gleaming and engines purring as the proud salesman stood by. Finally, the man himself appeared on the steps, gave a perfunctory nod in the direction of the cars and told his assistant to use them for collecting municipal rubbish.
            “That incident was burnt into the collective family memory,” said the present-day Maharaja of Alwar, Jeetender Singh. “We were perhaps the only royal family that was allowed to buy any car except a Rolls-Royce. We have numerous vintage cars but not a single Rolls.”
            Rolls-Royce satisfied every conceivable whim in the finishing touches. It hardly had a choice, really, because after extravagance, the next most prominent trait of the maharajas was eccentricity. The Maharaja of Jamnagar, for example, sent the company one of his wife’s pink slippers to ensure that his Phantom II was painted in exactly the right hue.
            Many maharajas preferred cabriolet versions that enabled them to sit on a raised seat in the rear of the automobile, so that their subjects could see them easily and pay homage. Some opted for the “purdah” model with thick curtains on the windows to protect the royal ladies from male stares.
            Sometimes, though, it was servants who needed to be invisible. “A 1933 Rolls-Royce 20/30 (Sedanca de Ville) that belonged to Maharani Sethu Parvati Bai of Travancore had a small stool on the floor. On it sat a dwarf who massaged the queen’s legs,” writes Baig.
            The current Maharaja of Udaipur, Arvind Mewar, recalls that his grandfather, being handicapped, asked the company to put the controls in the steering wheel so that he could drive more easily. “There was just no other car that could match the Rolls. In the 1940s, we had about 10 of them. I know it sounds decadent but, as a child, travelling in these cars was a routine affair.”
            In 1913, a grand Silver Ghost was sent to His Highness the Nizam of Hyderabad, one of the richest men in the world but a notorious eccentric and miser. The handbook stated that it was a “semi-state coach”. It was indeed a sort of throne car, painted in a rich canary yellow with gold mountings and upholstered in gold silk brocade with matching curtains.
            This was only one of the Nizam’s 50 Rolls-Royces, as befitted a man who employed 12,000 servants in his palace, including 38 to dust the chandeliers and others merely to grind walnuts. Yet he wore the same greasy fez for 30 years. On occasions when he invited people for tea, a Rolls decked out in feudal finery and with a cocktail bar in the back would go to pick them up. His fleet had barely covered 1,000 miles when he died in 1967.
            Easily Rolls-Royce’s favourite customer was the Maharaja of Mysore, because he always bought cars in batches of seven. According to the Rolls-Royce archives, the phrase “doing a Mysore” passed into company parlance to mean selling seven cars at once.
            Another enthusiastic buyer was the Maharaja of Patiala, whose appetite for Rolls-Royces (27) was exceeded only by his appetite for women (hundreds). The cars were decorated with such vast quantities of diamonds and precious stones that during periodic overhauls, security guards had to be positioned in the garage to prevent pilferage. But then this was the man whose arrival at the Savoy in the 1930s used to cause a traffic jam in the Strand as 20 Rolls-Royces followed by five truckloads of cricket gear rolled up to the hotel entrance.
            Tiger hunting was a passion with the maharajas but they did not believe in roughing it in the jungle. The royal style was carpeted tents, cases of Fortnum & Mason goodies, champagne and a battalion of cooks rustling up five-course meals in a mud kitchen. It was only natural, therefore, that Rolls-Royces became an important accessory. Specially fitted cars had extra footboards for the servants to stand on while the car rushed through the forest and special high-beam lamps to dazzle the tiger. Some were fitted with bells to fool the big cat into thinking a herd of cattle was approaching.
            Baig says he believes there are now about 169 Rolls-Royces remaining in India, a few in museums – Arvind Mewar, for example, has a small museum in Udaipur – but most in the hands of private collectors. Some were sold to foreign collectors until their export was banned. Mumbai-based Pranlal Bhogilal is believed to have the largest number – about 65 in his collection of some 200 cars.
            Mr Bhogilal and Mr Mewar love restoring vintage Rolls-Royces but before the 1960s, when people began to realise their value, many specimens lay around like scrap. One, in Lucknow, had its back cut off for use as a delivery truck. Another, a 1919 Phantom I, lay rotting in the Vijayanagram palace stables with a tree growing through its floorboards.

            “But even after 60 years, most engines would start up effortlessly,” says Mr Mewar. “Can you say that about any other car?”

          • satchit says:

            Or perhaps something else, SD.

            Maybe he wanted to destroy the Ranch like he did destroy Rajneeshism.

            A $2,500,000 diamond-encrusted watch?
            He really did not need it – but he could make money problems with it for the Ranch.

        • sw. veet (francesco) says:

          Lokesh, I make it simple:

          There are years and years of Osho’s public activities. Then, there are few stories of more or less indirect sources of a ‘private’ Osho; you, like me, were not in Rajneeshpuram.

          Among the former ones maybe even you could find some precious pearls that could bring you back to your inner glory.
          The second ones, made of gas, diamonds and luxury cars bore me when someone uses them against the former.

          In this way, one could say that Deva Peter was in the car with Osho not out of trust or conformism but rather worried that if had refused the ride the Master’s ego would be affected by it, as it had been for the watch with diamonds and the RRs.

          I do not think you’re stupid but that you can have a lack of sense of proportion for sure.

          • Lokesh says:

            Yeah, sure, Veet, and Osho wasn’t using emotional blackmail when he said he will leave his body if you guys don’t shape up.

            It’s all so much water under the bridge and personally all this stuff about what Osho did is hardly a hot topic for me. Your mindset belongs to a cult mentality and as long as you think the way you do you will continue to see things the way you do.

            Please yourself, believe what you want. Makes no difference to me. If you are happy with your viewpoint, bully for you. It sounds a bit tired to me. Different strokes for different folks.

            That is why I recommend watching ‘Holy Hell’, it shows how seemingly intelligent people can rationalise a whole pile of bullshit because they really want to believe things are the way they want to see them. Sooner or later, if people have a little intelligence, life gives a few shocks and they wake up and go, “what the fuck?”

            • sw. veet (francesco) says:

              I am sorry that you were emotionally abused by Osho’s threat to leave the body if you had not pleased him, I hope you have chosen the lesser evil.

              It is possible that I have a cult mind-set but not to the point of calling “stupid” who has an anti-cult mind-set because in the past he was emotionally abused by his Guru.

              Thanks for the advice, I will watch the documentary.

              • Lokesh says:

                Veet, I was never abused by Osho in any way. I would not have put up with such a thing.

                Your cult mentality has tried with a crude attempt to make you look smart but has in fact succeeded in making you look quite the opposite.

                There is another alternative perspective that might do you well to check out. Osho was not perfect, he was very human and thus had his faults like the rest of us, which for me works to make him all the more easy to embrace. ‘Warts an’ all’ is how I choose to view Osho and his actions. I’ve no idea if Osho was enlightened or not. It makes no difference to me.

                • sw. veet (francesco) says:

                  It is not the first time you throw a stone and hide your hand, Lokesh.
                  When I apply a minimum of accountability on the things you write, you melt like snow in the sun.

                  Moreover, it’s not the first time I’ve pointed out that playing the iconoclastic with Osho in my presence does not pay off.

                  It’s not a question of intelligence if I do not take your gossip seriously, you’d be stupid if that was your purpose.

                  My love for Osho and his kindness is inversely proportional to the aversion for arrogance.
                  Now, you know where I find the energy to contain your arrogance, and it costs me nothing, but what about your anti-cult mind-set energy applied to the wrong person?

                  I understand your aversion to my naivete in the way of expressing my gratitude for the existential compass that was given to me, and that sometimes makes me sink the sword in your ego of butter, but do not underestimate my heart that makes me appreciate your creative way (literature) with which you witness your love for the old guy.

              • Lokesh says:

                Thus spoke Veet, from the moral high ground.
                Definition of arrogance:
                An attitude of superiority manifested in an overbearing manner or in presumptuous claims or assumptions.

                It wasn’t me who claimed to be the master of masters.

                • sw. veet (francesco) says:

                  Quiet, no risk for me that I can confuse you with him.

                • shantam prem says:

                  Sw. Veet (francesco),
                  I think this much benefit of doubt you can give to Lokesh, he was with alive Osho for years.

                  I don´t say being around living Osho was alpha and omega of spirituality, yet trillion times better than to create images of a master based on the words and statues.

                  Beauty of knowing dead masters is one can remain in the state of wow for eternity. Photos don´t disappoint. They don´t ask much. Once in a while some dusting is enough.

  14. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    You are, Swamishanti, busy (like pretty much always) in the Chat beyond and beneath the jungle area of bashing stuff re the given topic.
    Thank you for this.


    • swamishanti says:

      Osho bashed those therapists who left and set themselves up as enlightened teachers quite a bit. Paul Lowe thought he was in the same state as Osho but Osho said not.

      I don’t know Paul Lowe or Michael Barnett, but I know a couple of sannyasins who felt they had benefited from Barnett’s ‘energy work’ in the eighties after he set up his own thing.

      Which reminds me of the French driver I mentioned earlier in the topic, who demonstrated some basic ‘energy work’ to me.

      After he had driven in a crazy manner from Dead Woman’s Bottom to the Forest of Dean, the whole group of us had a small party. Some of us sat in an old truck, complete with woodburner stove, the Frenchman (who also happens to be an excellent artist) came in, pupils dilated fully, once again after a potent magical brew.

      All of us were tripping, in fact, some more than others, but our Frenchman in one of those states. He began drawing with crayons on the roof of the truck. Then he started making amusing facial contortions.

      Then I remember we were talking together, and he showed me a trick.
      Everyone else in the room was chatting.
      He said to me, “Watch, now the energy will lift” – and closed his eyes for a moment with a little smile.

      When he opened his eyes, a lightness seemed to appear in the room. I watched everyone who were chatting together suddenly becoming more jubilant and people started laughing and joking.

      Then he looked at me with his jet black pupils and said, “Look, now the energy will drop.”
      He closed his eyes again, for a while, then opened again.

      I looked around the room and sure enough, the energy had changed again, people had stopped joking and laughing and become more serious again.

      I remember being impressed by that.

      • swami anand anubodh says:

        Or, maybe your French friend and the others were colluding just to wind you up.

        You should only ever believe in the extraordinary, once the ordinary can be eliminated.

        • swamishanti says:

          Energy can be changed very easily, it is a matter of different vibrations, different frequencies.

          If you gather with some people and chant “Om” together, this will create a certain vibration, a heart vibration. In India they discovered how to change vibrations using sound mantras to create different effects.

          Of course energies can be manipulated by someone who had been opened up by a powerful dose of a psychoactive compound, for example psilocybin.

          I have seen people often enter into different spiritual states under the influence of psilocybin, and become open to different levels of reality or even different beings with a different vibrational frequency perhaps to our dense vibration that we are accustomed to here on this planet.

          My friend was just messing around. He was very, very off his head and playing around with energy may seem a childish or even foolish thing to do. But I am sure that he does not indulge in such things in his daily life.

          But the consumption of psychoactive compounds and plants, including peyote, ayahuasca, mushrooms and brightly coloured toads is something that Shamans have been doing for a long time, and the states that these Shamans entered would be used to make contact with beings in a different dimension but that are linked to the earth plane, for example fairies, gnomes, aliens, etc. Often shamans connect with animal spirits.

          But this gave the shamans of the tribe a power over everyone else and sometimes this was misused.

          There are also instances where people try to manipulate things to create a negative outcome, and that creates fear of those people. For example, Ozen Rajneesh threatening to use “black magic” to create problems for someone from a ring which he had given to a girl who ran away from his commune, the story that was on SN a while back. This rubbish is all based on fear.

          But blistering barnacles, these connections with different spaces and dimensions can happen when people enter high consciousness states, naturally, then there’s no need for any psychoactive compounds. Paul Lowe, for example, starting communicating with aliens and extra-terrestrials.

          • preetam says:

            Frequencies and their vibrations can be used in different ways. Since 6 years I’m ‘HUM’ affected. The ‘HUM’ are low frequencies, below the hearing threshold. But the generated vibrations affect every human being, even on a foetus, it affects the nerves/brain system, heart and other organs.

            I tell you, this is really dreadful, no place to escape…strong black magic.

            • frank says:

              SS says:
              “I have seen people often enter into different spiritual states under the influence of psilocybin”

              Who says the states are spiritual?
              “Chemically induced” is a fact.
              “Spiritual” is a value judgment.

              When I first took acid, I didn`t have any spiritual information. I just thought I was a groovy guy into far-out music.

              Later, after reading the New Testament, I started feeling when tripping that I was getting a shot of Christ consciousness. Then I stumbled across Jung, I became convinced that tripping was a hero’s journey. Then I read about Zen Buddhism and the next time I necked a wad of mushrooms, I had a satori!

              Btw, what did the aliens and extra-terrestials say to Paul Lowe?

              • swamishanti says:

                I don’t know what they said to him but I remember an early black and white issue of ‘Kindred Spirit’ (must have been one of the first editions) that featured Paul Lowe and I think he was talking about how it was decided on different planets that he would be the leader of a group on this planet, and he was talking about awakening a lot.

                I also remember there was a lot of interest in crop circles which had been appearing in the UK at that time, and there was a feature in one of the early ‘Kindred Spirit’ magazines and how people thought they were something very special – but that turned out to be a hoax.

            • satyadeva says:

              My first thought was that this might be a form of tinnitus, but apparently not…


              But why assume it’s all “black magic”? Isn’t that being rather paranoid?

              • swamishanti says:

                Every year environmental health agencies get reports of low humming vibrations, especially in the countryside, but they cannot pinpoint anything.

                Tinnitus can create low humming vibrations. I started getting tinnitus after my crazy neighbour starting running noisy dehumidifier units in the rooms above me at night, after her flat got too mouldy but she never cleaned it off.

                The humming vibrations kept me awake at night (Osho had the same problem late in life) and although she agreed not to use it overnight, she started using it again after a while and then I would have to ask her again and then we would go round in circles…and she went completely nutty. Although alone,she began making loud sexual noises for a while,which then turned into uncontrollable laughter.

                A catharsis, I thought…but then she began shouting at the neighbours and then started wearing high-heels all the time, even overnight on her way to the bathroom, on a floor with no carpets.

                That was noisy and even when she wasn’t using the dehumidifiers at night I started hearing a low hum vibration out of stress. So I escaped from there.

                And when I moved the tinnitus disappeared.

  15. Parmartha says:

    In the Spring of 1984 I was driving the Medina commune minibus with some children. Like my Master, I too liked speeding along, though unlike him I never had a crash!

    I was going about 80 miles an hour along some UK dual carriageway. I was enjoying, the children were enjoying, and I thought nothing of it.
    The following day I had to go to ‘the’ office and was told I was suspended from driving…because some child had gone to the commune leader and told her of my speeding at 80 miles an hour, which he had seen on the clock…

    A strange game was then played with me, and the date of termination of suspension kept from me, as like all totalitarians they liked to keep the lower orders on a string.

    Then the suspension was suddenly gone, when the dept. head of transport was ‘moved on’ herself, I think for some misdemeanour.

    I think the joys of driving might have been denied me for much longer without that move…

    Later, when not a commune member, I thought what a load of baloney…and vowed never to be in such a situation of stark totalitarianism again….

    • sw. veet (francesco) says:

      It seems that there is a relationship between speed and crash, perhaps more stringent than that between exhaust gas and German.

      Is it the rules that create a totalitarian environment or the way (Ratio, lat.) they are applied?

      Sometimes the rules are just an excuse of totalitarianism, sometimes not. Sometimes fighting totalitarianism by disobeying the rules is like cutting the penis to annoy the wife.

      relationship…between exhaust gas and German
      (Ratio, lat.)

      • Parmartha says:

        When in a totalitarian situation there is no real strategy other than masked compliance.

        The real question for the seeker is how come one gets into totalitarian situations in the first place, and whether one can leave them.

        Leaving a totalitarian situation is just not the vision of the open road, and it’s never-ending beckoning. We are tribally unconscious beings, and leaving the protection of what might seem the tribe is often going to be very difficult. The property does not have to have barbed wire to keep you within its folds!

        • frank says:

          Seekers can be helped by others who recognise totalitarian situations for what they are, say so,and don`t try to cover it with some “It`s wrong to judge”/”It`s beyond the mind” schtick.

          Why would someone carry on supporting obvious totalitarians?
          Two reasons:
          Either they are getting a pay-off or a kickback
          Because they still have the same kind of barbed wire bordering their minds!

          Time to get in touch with that inner wire-clipper.

          • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

            Hi Frank,
            In Information Age Time we may have to add some other issues of possible totalitarianism onto those you already mentioned: Spin-doctors or professional troll fabrications in the social networks, or IT-Trojans’* distorting capacities, perverting or eliminating necessary information-exchange.

            Old challenges in a way, sure, but appearing nowadays in new costumes and with new professional extended abundances – with new ´kings and queens´ of fake news imperiums and their courtesies.


            *IT-Trojans – I referred to intruding malware in a computer – like the horse of the old Greek myth telling of the Trojan war…occupying a foreign land/a city in ancient times.

          • sw. veet (francesco) says:

            The History is written by the winners, ‘Totalitarianism’ means the three regimes defeated by the US industrial military complex: Nazism, Fascism and Communism.

            But it is also written: “The totalitarian regime is characterised above all by the attempt to control society in all areas of life, imposing the assimilation of an ideology: the single party that controls the state is not limited to impose directives, but wants to radically change the way of thinking and living of society itself.” (Wiki).

            Today, in the democratic and not at all dystopian “open society”, that one of the preventive wars, Soros’s NGOs*, or that one of electronic bracelets for the workers (Amazon), from this happy island we look at the facts about the Sheela gang and we conclude that she implemented the fascist ideology easily evinced by the things that Osho says.

            I wonder what mind-set produces this: acidity of old age, menopause, excesses of substances when they were young…

            I met a sannyasin who worked intensely and full-time as a worker in Rajneeshpuram and did not have time and space to have an intimate life.
            I met another one who participated mainly in the Festivals and who only has ecstatic memories of beautiful young women. The first is Swiss, the second is not.

            *Soros’s NGOs – Non-government organisations funded by billionaire philanthropist George Soros.

            • frank says:

              With the talk of totalitarianism, I can’t help feeling that identifying with being a victim of a totalitarian regime shows the same kind of inflated mentality that Ranch sannyasins showed at the Ranch time…Likening the locals to Nazis…with sannyasins, presumably, as heroes of some sort of spiritual Maquis and partisans of super-consciousness…

              In fact, you were just another baby boomer mug who didn`t know your ass from your elbow and got hung out to dry and continue to be so by your own religious fantasies of being someone with some kind of importance on the planet!!

              You have to admit that being ticked off about driving the over the speed limit with a bus full of kids ain’t exactly being rounded up in the Warsaw ghetto and sent to Auschwitz!

              And poor old Madhu, having to read fake news on her computer – that must be worse than having your fingernails pulled out by the Gestapo!

              And remember, the only gas chamber on the ranch was Osho`s!

              • sw. veet (francesco) says:

                While the clown who knows how to put his elbow in his own ass has its importance for the good mood of the spectators…

                Solidarity for Parmartha, for the attack by the faceless man, without shame and without an elbow.

              • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

                Something about you?
                I write to find out what I`m thinking, what I`m looking at, what I see and what it means.”

                These are your introductions to yourself here, Frank.

                And when you’re sending lines like:
                “And poor old Madhu, having to read fake news on her computer – that must be worse than having your fingernails pulled out by the Gestapo!”

                And these lines, like many other lines, are neither moderated (de-edited) or corrected, there seems to be quite a dark ‘mystery’ unfolding about the SN/UK chat-website as such in my eyes, as you show up with much more than just ´losing your temper´, accepted by more than just a few of the regulars (or the admin?).

                Then it’s time for a corner for the #METOO debate, also here!


                No “dark mystery”, Madhu, WE FELT Frank WAS JUST MAKING A POINT ABOUT KEEPING A SENSE OF PROPORTION.

                WHAT’S the #METOO debate, BTW?

                • frank says:

                  Your claims to be some kind of victim of totalitarianism because there is fake news online to me is another example of the bizarre and somewhat garbled aggressive-victim stance that runs through so many of your contributions on SN. That`s what the Gestapo comment was about.

                  I also cast doubt on the totalitarianism that Parmartha ascribed to his school bus driving story in similar fashion, so your attempt to frame this as a male/female power thing related to #METOO shows that you yourself are a purveyor of fake news!!

            • sw. veet (francesco) says:

              Actually, I was referring to the NGOs that bring low-cost labour from the north Africa to Italy for reasons other than philanthropy. There are also many nations on this planet that about Soros have a different idea than that of a philanthropist.

              But at least he is honest:
              “I am sure that my speculative activities have had negative consequences, but this fact does not enter into my thinking. It can not. If I abstain from certain actions because of moral doubts, then I would cease to be an effective speculator. The shadow of a remorse because I make a profit from speculation on the pound sterling. I did not speculate against the pound to help England, nor did I do it to damage it. I did it simply to make money.”

        • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

          “Leaving a totalitarian situation is just not the vision of the open road, and it’s never-ending beckoning. We are tribally unconscious beings, and leaving the protection of what might seem the tribe is often going to be very difficult. The property does not have to have barbed wire to keep you within its folds!”

          Yes, there you pinned it, Parmartha: “never-ending beckoning”. Would suggest, though, to replace ´tribal-beings’ by ‘social-beings’, we all are and add to mention all kinds of torture inventions mankind of the so-called third millennium has proven to be capable of to perpetrate on his fellow beings.

          Amongst them are also those not being operated by state power but also neighbouring incidents, that Swamishanti or Preetam is talking about.
          Difficult and complex issues.

          All in all, I wonder what that topic (taken out from Oshonews) quoting just one part of the small booklet Deva Peter self-published in 2016, I guess, is bringing up here.

          As far as I found out by research he is living with his beloved wife in Colorado now, near his daughter and his grandchildren and if there happens to be some profit by his pictured review of his art deco times on RRs and the Ranch, the profit goes to Viha, California.

          He himself wrote he was a rebellious figure amidst all the Hollywood gang sponsoring RRs, watches and whatsoever. And he seems to have also shared about his upbringing in the middle of Chicago and his difficult times there.

          Much more shocking than this presently presented stuff of Deva Peter have been for me some FBI files or youtubes or the book of Prem Rajesh (“the day, we got guns”) the SN/UK HQ liked to confront us with
          in the course of time…

          And what is missing (?) in a way could be, might be, some of the roles some of the ´Therapriests´or ´wanna be Enlighteneds´ of the scene were taking or are still taking (?) in the course of a decade-long commune past.

          Precarious issues in precarious times.
          And not to forget the ´ever-beckoning´, how you put it, that the string of Life means the present ´moment -to-moment´, as aware as possible.


          • Parmartha says:

            Thanks, Madhu.
            Yes, I accept that this guy who wrote the article has some okay points, not least he had some balls in not going along with the cabal.

            My memory is that SN did do something on Prem Rajesh’s book, ‘The day We Got Guns’, when it came out.

            You would have to be more specific about “some FBI files or youtubes” -what does this mean?

            But thanks for your contribution.

  16. shantam prem says:

    Sheela, once the most trusted lieutenant of Bhagwan of 1983, boasted to have 365 Rolls for such a loving master. She wanted to say, 93 or 96 are too few, it was surely a provocation. When you taunt power bigger than you, surely bill comes too. Kingdom strikes back, in democracy it is less out of vengeance or revenge, more out of political compulsions.

    Based on such statements I try to visualise a future scene when I am a spiritual master and have adorable disciples around. I will prefer my community to present me bicycles. On the footsteps of Osho I also dream to be remembered for the vehicles, in my case, 365 bicycles!

    In my inner, there is no software for cars, I have not learnt car driving though had the Indian licence for car and jeep too, as well as scooters.

    I prefer bicycle and my heart beats with gratitude when on the roads of green Freiburg, I on my bicycle feel like waving to trees or shaking hands with branches and asking, “How are you, Sir?”

    New generation in the West has almost no fetish for cars. They treat it as a useful convenience, their lifestyle is based on cycles, not on cars.

    In that sense, Osho belongs to the age of chariots! Fact is, in spite of well-intentioned compassion, highly intelligent spiritual literature, generations in the West will never appreciate Osho because of Rolls Royce Stunt. This provocation backfired.

    • preetam says:

      In Germany people buy every year more cars, they like to get cheated. Registration 2016: 4.5% more than 2015. The numbers for 2017 are not ready yet, but it’s more.

    • sw. veet (francesco) says:

      Shantam, do not believe that bikes can save you from envy and masked compliance.

      Better if you remain open to the small and big sabotages, that should lead you to abandon the position of leader, and return to walk on your legs.


    • satchit says:

      I have a truck driver licence. I prefer 365 trucks.

    • swamishanti says:

      I think it is an excellent idea, Shantam, a future master, in the lineage of Osho, collecting hundreds of bicycles.

      And you say that you will step down and hug the trees, and say, “Hello Sir.”

    • Lokesh says:

      Shantam says, “This provocation backfired.”
      Maybe it didn’t. Maybe it showed some sannyasins how fucking stupid they were.

      • shantam prem says:

        Lokesh, only Parmartha can answer this hard statement of yours, with honesty. In this blog, he is the only one who has invested time, work and feelings at that juncture of Sannyas movement called Rajneeshism.

      • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

        Lokesh, you said yesterday: “Shantam says, “This provocation backfired.”
        Maybe it didn’t. Maybe it showed some sannyasins how fucking stupid they were.”

        You´re taking the approach of a ´Lion´s Roar´ here, Lokesh, and that´s what you mostly do here, as one of the very impressive regulars in the UK SN chat right from the beginning.

        Don´t be too proud about your unique, because seemingly more happy outcome of your episode and challenges of the Pune 1 historical sangha episode.

        I prefer the ´elephant´s´ fable as a metaphor (also some of other fables from the Sufi-story area about judgemental habits and their shortcomings) and I am reminded on the first ´Osho-Times´ in Pune, appearing few days after the Master´s departure. It was texted on the title: “You ain´t seen nothing yet”.

        You wouldn´t be writing or reading (?) here, or would you (?) – some thirty, forty years later, if you were totally indifferent and not concerned at all.

        Life´s chapters in the No-Book never closed for anybody – always changing – and btw, I have met at any time very sensitive and intelligent fellow-sannyasins in the different phases often discussed here.


        • shantam prem says:

          Somewhere I appreciate Madhu´s contributions, she is one balanced seeker. Her observation the other day, “jungle area of bashing stuff re the given topic.” is quite to the point.

          POST EDITED.

        • Lokesh says:

          Madhu asks, “You wouldn´t be writing or reading (?) here, or would you (?)”

          My answer is yes. Why not? I can’t take any of this picking over Osho’s ashes seriously. I take it all with a pinch of salt.

          The other day I was chatting with a guy in the swimming pool sauna and he asked me if Osho was a paedophile. I told him no and the chap was glad to hear it. I found it ridiculous.

          • satchit says:

            “The other day I was chatting with a guy in the swimming pool sauna and he asked me if Osho was a paedophile. I told him no and the chap was glad to hear it. I found it ridiculous.”

            So you could rely on your No, Lokesh?

            Feels there are almost as much opinions about him as there are sannyasins or ex-sannyasins. And a lot of projections and certainly he was not nice, he was not an uncle.

            • Lokesh says:

              Satchit, I’m not really sure what your point is, although I am sure you are attempting to make one.

              • satchit says:

                Lokesh, you seem to be still in the fighting mood, not accepting
                that paths are unique and different.

                • Lokesh says:

                  I’ve no idea what you are talking about, Satchit. To be honest, I’m not interested in anything you have to say, therefore you needn’t attempt to explain yourself. Have a good trip along your unique and different path. I really mean that. I will no longer respond to any of your comments.

                • satchit says:

                  Lokesh says:

                  “I will no longer respond to any of your comments.”

                  Sorry Lokesh, it’s not the first time that you made this announcement.

                  How often did you make it? 3 or 4 times.
                  I cannot trust you in this.

                  You take the high road,
                  I’ll take the low road! :-)

  17. preetam says:

    SD, a ‘HUM’ affected person can hear those low frequencies.
    Low frequency Tinnitus does not exist! The normal known Tinnitus is always a result of low frequency Pollution.

    But please, if you want to know more about this theme, google some infos. I’m tired to argue with people who do not know anything about what the ‘HUM’ is. It is not against you, SD.

    But so much that I have found as cause is the high pressure natural gas system.

    Not only humans are affected, every organism. It perhaps also causes whales swimming on to the beach, just to escape. The pipes are 1m. with a pressure of 200 bar. oversea*. It creates Vibrations and Pulsations, an 1Hz. wave has a length of 340m. Those vibrations can have more than 130dB, permanent.

    Doctors are mostly ignorant about things they do not understand, even Charite*. I have a Portuguese friend, she studied neurobiology and acoustics, she investigates it since 30 years. But in connection to windmills. She knows what I’m speaking of and how horrible it is.

    *oversea = pipes through the ocean
    ‘Charite’ is a ‘cross-borders’ hospital.

  18. preetam says:

    Are Osho’s RR in daily use, or part of a private museum?
    One of them would fit me – ‘Nirvana tours’…Vipassana at 300 km/h.

  19. sw. veet (francesco) says:

    Lokesh, I loved to watch ‘Holy Hell’, by Will Allen.

    We could say that ‘All’s Well That Ends Well’.
    The beautiful people who lived around the Speedo-Guru Michel/Andreas/ Reyji (Jaime Gomez) lived bright days of ecstatic experiences, and without the use of drugs, before the weight of the narcissism of the Leader began to interfere with the process of openness and trust that requires love.

    I imagine there must have been a painful moment in which those who left him doubted that what they had experienced in terms of joy, happiness, trust were imaginary, fake, because connected to a teaching given by a fake teacher.

    How to put together the Holy bright days with the darkness of hell ones, the love for the travelling companions with the hate towards the one who had abused of trust of many of them?

    When at the end of the documentary one of those young men who came out of the community chased him and faced him on the beach I thought he would hit him with a fist, as perhaps would do one with an Italian name like mine, instead…there were sentences of circumstance with Him and moving and compassionate hugs with friends who are still part of the community.

    Yes, in the end what matters is love, more than God or guru, love between human beings, sometimes God and guru are part of this love, sometimes an obstacle.

    When a ‘right’ teaching invites love there are no dramas or surprises but when love happens despite the ego of a false teacher then it is a miracle, because it is the sign of an integrity/wisdom (and healthy mind) which sinks into compassion.

    Thank you, Lokesh, for introducing me to Will & Friends, now I have another reason that keeps me away from my illegal name, not having asked to be baptised in the worst hell on earth in terms of cult mind-set.

    • Lokesh says:

      Hi Veet, Glad you enjoyed ‘Holy Hell’, fascinating on a number of levels. Some lovely people got involved with the guy.

      • frank says:

        It`s the old ‘trickster guru’ thing.
        Who better than a con-artist to show you that it`s all an illusion?
        The way to become wise is to find out you`re a fool.
        I can relate to that.

        “An out-of-work actor who landed the role of a lifetime.”
        That was a good line.

    • sw. veet (francesco) says:

      @MOD, please

      Something sounds strange…
      “…the process of openness and trust that requires love”.

      I mean that “openess and trust” are the (pre) conditions that could invite “love”.

      It is true that there is a certain circularity between openness, trust and love*, but in this case, not feeling empathy for the Speedo-guru, I (bet) attribute more value to the quality of sharing community life, to their innocent hearts or their good intentions, also therapeutic; rather than believing in the metaphysical hypothesis that the love of God was conveyed by the guy, the devotional surrendering was sufficient to create a climate of trust in the community.

      Although there is a buddha-master-god in anyone, and I only speak out of intuition.

      So, maybe it should be written:
      ‘the process of openness and trust that love requires (or is required by love).’

      *a certain circularity between openness, trust and love – I mean it (circularity) in definition terms and about indefiniteness of cause and effect:
      Love is Trust or Trust is Love?
      Which came first, egg or hen?


  20. samarpan says:

    “What is the point of having same type of car in multiple numbers as one can drive only one car at a time?” (Kusum).

    Investment trust?
    Tax management?
    Stereotype busting for believers?
    Button pushing for non-believers?
    Street credibility for the “guru of the rich”?

  21. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    @ Frank (3 February, 2018 at 8:09 pm)
    You are not in your senses, Frank, and I clearly doubt here that you are writing “to find out what YOU think”, why and what for…
    That you later claim to relate to “The way to become wise is to find out you`re a fool”, I´d doubt too.


  22. shantam prem says:

    Just seen one photo the other day. Innocent-looking Sheela. It is in sharp contrast to what she became in America.

    This photo is a testimony how ambition of any kind destroys the innocent, even the ambition to put your guru on the top of the pyramid.

    • satyadeva says:

      “ambition of any kind destroys the innocent”

      This is simply untrue, Shantam. Ambition to qualify and to earn a living in a particular profession or trade, or to achieve some leisure goal, eg in an art or craft or sport or travel, is a natural, creative, life-enhancing drive. Ambition for power and/or status for its own sake might be another thing altogether.

      Sounds like you’re repeating something – out of context – you’ve heard from some ‘spiritual authority’ and/or possibly using it to console yourself for how your own life has turned out.

      Besides, any photograph captures just a single moment. How can you possibly know what might have been going on in Sheela at that time? Perhaps you’re simply imagining what you find convenient to believe.

      • shantam prem says:

        “Ambition of any kind destroys the innocent.”

        Maybe I have to refine it:
        Ambition is the very source of activity and progress in the world. Without ambition there won´t be any Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, Bhagwan Shree, Mother Meera or Ozen Rajneesh!

    • swamishanti says:

      She wasn’t innocent and then became corrupted later at the Ranch, Shantam, she was always master at manipulating situations and people.
      Power chakra stuff, basically, that’s how she became the chief.

      And Bhagwan would have been able to see that she was good for the job. But unaware how far she would go to achieve her aims.

      Kate Strelley, in her book, ‘The Ultimate Game, The Rise And Fall Of Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh’, describes how Sheela was good at manipulating situations and fooling people. She came to Poona when she was just 15, and was groomed by Sheela for basically the whole time.

      So she learnt a lot from Sheela, but later, after she left and grew a bit older, began to doubt Bhagwan and projected what she’d learnt from Sheela’s manipulative ways onto Bhagwan.

      Some people, including Strelley, maintain that Sheela was already experimenting with using drugs and chemicals on sannyasins in Pune 1.

      • shantam prem says:

        My assessment is based on just this particular photo clocked in a nanosecond during very early years of Poona 1.

        As an Indian, I know Gujarati and more than that, Patel people, can be as innocent as Michael Jackson white.

        What I don´t like is to paint Sheela the demon and everyone else as devas. This is fucking injustice and because of this, Neo-Sannyas has gone down to the footnotes.

        • swami anand anubodh says:

          Shantam Porn,

          You have the stunning hypocrisy to lament and whine over Sheela’s loss of innocence, and how that ‘somehow’ validates your cause, yet her loss of innocence had become your gain, when you published a naked photo of her on SN some time back – that you gleefully admitted to lusting over.

          So tell us, Noble Crusader, which of the two photos of Sheela do you have as your desktop wallpaper?

          • shantam prem says:

            Let me tell you one simple fact about me: almost on daily basis naked women of all ages pass through the antennae of my eyes in Sauna or naturist lake.

            I live in that part of Germany where social nudity is accepted as way of life and as Indian i feel humbled and gratitude. Not a single time I have lusted after any of those women. My lust is triggered only by emotions.

            Sheela gave the nude shot at the instance of Osho. Master wanted to provoke Indian mind-set back home.

            Unfortunately, provocateur died and left behind conformist dudes and cowards who wet their pants with the idea to write about master with head held high.

  23. frank says:

    Actually, that quote: “I write to find out what I’m thinking…” is one that I liked and identified with from Joan Didion, the American author of, amongst other works: ‘We tell ourselves stories in order to live’.

    I liked it and identified with it when I came across it, and
    I like some of her ideas eg: “We live entirely by the imposition of a narrative line upon disparate images, by the ‘ideas’ with which we have learned to freeze the shifting phantasmagoria which is our actual experience.”

    I like the implicit possibility that anything one thinks to be true can very quickly be proven to be a fabrication. It could be seen as a bit pretentious, I suppose. But then, on the other hand, I have found out a lot by writing here on Sannyasnews.

    What I have come to see, for example, is that certain of these attempts to freeze the frame are like a red rag to a bull to me. I have an irresistible urge to puncture the inflated bubble of literal-minded, humourless, holier-then-thou types who spend their life complaining that everyone is not coming up to their high moral standards, who invariably are quite paranoid, the paranoia being the fear that their inflated and unsustainable idea of themselves will collapse, which of course, it will.

    I can see that this lack of humour is the bedrock of the totalitarian, in spiritual circles and in the individual, which includes myself.

    That`s (some of) my narrative.
    What`s yours?

    • sw. veet (francesco) says:

      Frank, it is quite inevitable that one can create his own narrative, about the reality already lived or that one is experiencing; I suppose you will have yours, with all the implications.

      Without a narrative, an open book or a diary about ourselves, how could we answer simple questions such as:
      How are you? Are you happy to be alive? How is the phase of your life going on?
      Fromm: Is your life influenced by a syndrome of death (necrophilia) or love (biophilia)?

      Therefore, you too could have your own vision of life, having asked yourself the basic existential questions that do not afflict the less neurotic species than ours.

      Maybe you too have learned lessons, laws, limits; and you need them, if you are not self-destructive you can not do not keep it into account.

      I agree with you that not being aware of one’s narrative can lead to an arrogant attitude towards other narratives, as seems to happen for strong and intolerant narratives, which are totalitarianisms.

      But not to distinguish between narratives does not contrast with totalitarianism, rather, putting them all on the same level, even those alternatives to it, ie those that are anti-totalitarian, favours the Pensée Unique*, the most subtly dominant narrative today.

      If there are no more ideals or ideologies, if indeed all the narratives are equivalent then: you born, you produce, you buy, you die.


      • frank says:

        I missed something out in the original quote:
        “We – as writers – live entirely by the imposition of a narrative line upon disparate images…”
        She was more talking creativity than philosophy/ideology.

        The narrative idea does veer dangerously close to the dead-end of post-modernism if seen in a purely philosophical context. This philosophy says that all viewpoints are simply equal narratives, none is truer than the other.

        The flaw of this idea is that if all viewpoints/truths are seen as equal narratives, what privileges this ‘truth’ – that all narratives are equal – over other narratives? It`s a dead end, a double bind.

        But in the context of art, specifically in Jean Didion`s case, she is talking about creative writing: it`s no longer a philosophical problem but rather a condition by which things happen.

        Seeing the fluidity of reality is the creative starting point.

        Rigid thinking or ‘totalitarianism; destroys or makes impossible this fluidity and freedom.

  24. sw. veet (francesco) says:

    It is you who have used the philosophical categories of true/false about the frame used by others for their own narratives.

    Where you say, “I like the implicit possibility that anything one thinks to be true can very quickly be proven to be a fabrication”, that is a philosophical premise that you take as true, formally contradicting what you just said, and if later you can not prove in a very quick way that it is just your fabrication you also contradict the substance of what you say.

    Quoting Joan Didion you approve when she says that “We live entirely by the imposition of a narrative line upon disparate images, by the ‘ideas’ with which we have learned to freeze the shifting phantasmagoria which is our actual experience”; she uses again “We” as a personal pronoun to say “We tell ourselves stories in order to live.”

    But despite what Joan Didion says, and forgetting about her “We”, you start judging the frame that contains the story/life of others:
    “What I have come to see, for example, is that certain of these attempts to freeze the frame are like a red rag to a bull to me. I have an irresistible urge to puncture the inflated bubble of literal-minded, humourless, holier-then-thou types who spend their life complaining that everyone is not coming up to their high moral standards, who invariably are quite paranoid, the paranoia being the fear that their inflated and unsustainable idea of themselves will collapse, which of course, it will. I can see that this lack of humour is the bedrock of the totalitarian, in spiritual circles and in the individual, which includes myself ”.

    It is you here who justify your invective with a high moral, anti-totalitarian, ideological/philosophical reason; my previous comment replied to that.

    Your way of changing frames to your narrative, with the related categories, is very evident here:
    “Seeing the fluidity of reality is the creative starting point.
    Rigid thinking or ‘totalitarianism’ destroys or makes impossible this fluidity and freedom.”

    I do not know if it is relevant but even artists can live within a rigid frame, immersed in their fluid creative process they could ignore the precursors of a new Nazism at the door.