LAXMI

Laxmi was Osho’s Secretary between around 1970 and 1980. She is well remembered by many, partly because she did sometimes seem like a hollow bamboo, which Sheela, Osho’s later Secretary,  definitely did not.

There is a new book, which as we know the author Rashid, took much work, and if the intensity and volume of the work that went into it is anything to go by will be good. It is being published next week on Osho’s birthday.

 ‘The Only Life – Osho, Laxmi and a Journey of the Heart’ by author Swami Deva Rashid (Maxwell)

Below is something from a Darshan Diary that is indicative of Laxmi’s governance.

“Tonight Sagar came to darshan, telling Osho that Laxmi (the secretary of the organization) has asked him to leave the ashram. He asked Osho if he were really to leave or if this was a message to indicate that he should apply himself more to the work.

Osho: Apply yourself more to the work… become a help to Laxmi. There is no need to go, but apply yourself more to the work – and don’t avoid it. Because that is detrimental to your growth also. Once you become accustomed to not working, you will stop growing. I allowed you enough time… for years you were not doing anything. I allowed you into the ashram only because now you should start doing. A point has come in your growth where you need to move into the work. But if you just somehow manage to do it, it won’t help.

Work is not the only consideration. You should do it happily, lovingly, because if you just do it somehow, like a duty, that will not help. The work will be done, but that will not help you. Work is not the only consideration. You are also – and you are more important than the work. Become part of the family. Don’t remain an outsider.

Osho darshan Laxmi

Osho and Laxmi

Sagar: You see, I was trying to do this, because my first job was to do with publishing and running the welcoming centre which I really wanted to get involved in. But I found that the best jobs were actually taken away from me before I had a chance to do anything with them.

Now I’m left with something that’s really hard to get into. I mean doing security guarding for the therapy bathrooms… there isn’t much scope in it. I don’t mind it really….

Osho: No, don’t think in those terms. Whatsoever work is given to you, do it as lovingly as possible. The point is not whether the work is very important or not. If you do it lovingly, it becomes important, whatsoever it is even if it is cleaning. The question is not what work – the question is that you surrender to the ashram all your energies; and whatsoever is available, or whatsoever Laxmi thinks is right, you do.

Simply surrender to Laxmi. That is going to help very much. Just listen to her, and whatsoever she says, do. This is a meditation for you – surrendering to Laxmi.

Sagar: There is one thing. When I was considering the prospect of leaving the ashram, I found that a lot of fear was coming up about the prospect of going back to the West – the uncertainty of it and everything. It was worrying me because one day I will have to do this for one reason or another.

Osho: There is no need to go, unless you yourself want to. But if you don’t become a part, an organic part of the ashram, and you remain aloof…. Because Laxmi feels that whatsoever she gives you, there are a few problems. And the basic problem that I have understood is that you would like it to be done your way. That creates trouble. Simply relax and say, ‘Show me the way and I will do it.’ Simply execute it and don’t try to dominate it.

Sometimes you may know better, and your plan may be better, but still, drop it, because you will have to fit with many people and they all feel it is difficult to work with Sagar because you have your fixed ideas. I’m not saying that those ideas are wrong. They may be better, but the problem is that you have to fit with everybody. If everybody feels that it is difficult to work with Sagar, then it becomes difficult for Laxmi to arrange.

So simply drop your ideas. Tell Laxmi that whatsoever she feels like, just to tell you and you will do it. You will put your whole energy into it and will not put forward your ideas, your plans, because Laxmi knows the whole situation better.

For three months simply relax, then we will see. And she is bound to listen to you. If you have some good ideas, she is bound to listen to you. But first become a part. And whatsoever she says, be a yes-sayer. And unless you want to, there is no need to go. Good, Sagar. ”

Osho, The Passion for the Impossible, Ch 5

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107 Responses to LAXMI

  1. Sometimes I must feel like applauding Resort Swamis for kicking out the famous Indian Swami Jis and Ma Jis from the main property. These people are such ghetto types, trying to create saintly brands on the footsteps of religions.

    Few things feel better if they are done from Delhi and not from Pune.
    In Pune at least, other than late Osho, everybody is nobody. In superpower brand Amazon, do we know the names of employees and managers other than the founder? This is the Aquarius approach, impersonal and good quality, reliability and competitive prices.

    • PS:
      In Pune Resort, they have stopped using expressions of Swami and Ma, the trademarked titles of neo-sannyasins. Everybody addresses each other with first name. The idea is not to create Indian-style hierarchy where seniors are not addressed with their names but Swami Ji and Ma Ji.

      Another big step in Resort is to stop giving Sannyas. Osho Resort is simply a meditation resort in one of the highly polluted cities of India.

  2. Kavita says:

    When I came to Poona in 1992 after giving up my job in Bombay, I was asked to join the Welcome Centre. I enjoyed my workship then later, after about 3 months, Zarine asked Ayaama (co-ordinator) to tell me to stop wearing the bow-shaped scarf on my head which I was wearing due to the Poona heat. When I refused the proposition an Inner Circle meeting was called with Anando and Neelam with Zarine.

    Luckily for me, Anando & Neelam said that I should continue wearing my scarf, so Ayaama informed me about their decision, but I decided to take a break.

    After my break I was asked to join the Visitor Centre for tours in English, then I participated in the Audio Dept., Post Office, Bookshop, Bakery, Lao Tzu Gate Guarding, till 2000.

    Thank you for posting this, I remembered my journey of participation in the commune, which was full of fun!

  3. Klaus says:

    I really like the tone of how you present the book in the first two paragraphs!

    Besides the Sagar-story fits me – as I will return ‘to the West’ mid of December and feel slightly nervous in my belly. Ooooops.

    • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

      You say, Klaus: “I really like the tone of how you present the book in the first two paragraphs”.

      Seconded .

      In ancient times, secretaries, facillitators, adminstrators, therapriests, and a Sangha of Lovers was remaredly supervised so to say.
      That´s what I feel about the time and phase of Laxmi and also the quoted particle mentioning Sagar ( whom one used to nickname ´Propper Sagar´, wasn´it ?) gives insight and view to.

      To give that book about Laxmi´s life and lover´s time the title – ” ‘The Only Life – Osho, Laxmi and a Journey of the Heart’ by author Swami Deva Rashid (Maxwell)” – is very much convenient and to bring it out in the public as a Birthday Celebration tomorrow is very much convenient too.

      As it is – all in all- it´s a journey of the Heart.

      The very latter – even nowadays a journey of the Heart and as before- and for everybody. Good to be reminded.

      Madhu

  4. Kavita says:

    In a way, participating here on SN is also participating in the commune.

    • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

      I´m wondering, how you made up this kind of mind, Kavita (yesterday at 10.31 am)? But you said that before already here and there, I remember.

  5. sw. veet (francesco) says:

    “…she did sometimes seem like a hollow bamboo….”

    Also, for me, surrendering to a Master means creating space to the essential thing, his love: the more I will be empty and the more He will resonate in me, the more people will be able to listen to his song through me.

    Although it is not possible to know in what way He will resound in me the worry of having to resonate better than the others by imitating the Master’s gestures and voice is among the inessential things to free myself from.

    “Only cats and dogs live for themself…”Sharing” is the name of God …Laxmi becomes a servant of God”.
    Sw. Purnanand Bharti at 21:08:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1269&v=V_KN8KdHzso

    • Parmartha says:

      Laxmi was a paradoxical figure. She presided over a tantric commune, or at least that is how I experienced Poona 1. And yet she confessed to being sexless, and only “tried” it once in her whole life!

      She was a good administrator and organiser, and also handled public relations well, considering what came later.

      It is not clear why Osho ditched her. If Osho’s ghost was ever interviewed that would be an important question.

      The other question for Osho would be why he went to America…his reading should have shown him that America was actually a gun-toting, redneck country with no tradition of civilisation. Almost anywhere in Europe would have been better, if he felt he had to leave India for his health or any other reason.

      • dominic says:

        “His reading should have shown him that America was actually a gun-toting, redneck country with no tradition of civilisation”

        Pretty sweeping statement, no? Do you hate America, Parmartha? In any case, nearly all gurus wanted to go there and make it big, Hollywood style. Seems to me, Osho would have fitted in…the bling, the Rollers, the General Patton movies, the drugs.

        If he’d kept his head down a bit and had a half-decent manager running things, it might have worked out, as it did for others, whose taste for dissipation was even greater. Provoking the politicos and locals with Sheela’s shenanigans meant shooting himself in the foot…maroon neck style!

        • sw. veet (francesco) says:

          Maybe the question should be another:
          Is there a country or a people that fits with Osho?
          If it exists, then asking who will be His secretary will have a certain relevance.

          An unwise geopolitical choice, America? Let’s see.

          We exclude USSR and Muslim countries.
          We exclude tropical and equatorial Africa, for the climate, the mosquitoes and the puppet governments.
          We exclude South America with fierce military dictatorships.
          We exclude Canada and the countries that are too cold.
          We exclude Italy with American bases from which NATO (the military industrial complex behind it) controls the Mediterranean area and rest of Europe.
          We exclude the young democracies post-dictatorships of Spain, Greece and Portugal.
          We exclude France that bullies those who speak English…
          What’s left?
          Australia and Oceania.
          A flight that doesn’t fit with the average pockets of sannyasins of those years.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio

        • Parmartha says:

          Definitely would not live in the USA myself, Dominic. Surprised, by the look of it. that you would?

          I like Ireland, France, and even Italy!

          • dominic says:

            I was just remarking on your bit harsh American stereotype. Would I like Ireland (drunken bruisers), France (cheese-eating surrender monkeys) or Italy (“I’ll make you an offer…”)? Yes, America would be fine, it’s so big, as would those other countries.

        • satchit says:

          “His reading should have shown him that America was actually a gun-toting, redneck country with no tradition of civilisation”.

          One can have different opinions about the why to America. My opinion is it was to create friction.

          If you want to become famous you have to go to America, like Jesus did go to Jerusalem.

          And my other thought is, that it was from the beginning not planned for duration – just an overnight stay.

        • Parmartha says:

          I would not live myself in America, Dominic, that is because I have visited the place both before and during sannyas, and found it dangerous and not to my taste. It’s as simple as that.

          I see you argue that for Osho, you can see that it might have made sense to him…well I’ll bear that in mind…

          You often seem to think I have a left-wing view…I am not actually left-wing. I am eclectic and rather a Whig liberal at times! I suspect that there are many who would not live in America who are from all aspects of the political range. I am anti-fascist and anti-communist, and anti all forms of fundamentalist religion, Shia, Sunni, Christian and Hindu, Buddhist, etc. They would all have me for mincemeat if they knew, and if they could!

          I suppose it is possible that you would think that Orwell was left wing…For me, I would say I am a fellow-traveller of his, and enjoy his company in his books…Perhaps you don’t.

          • dominic says:

            Thanks, Parmartha. America is a huge place, just Texas is nearly three times the size of the UK. Many maroonies have moved to the New Age enclaves there. I can’t imagine them being very dangerous places, apart from being accosted by the occasional lightworker or having your wallet (en)lightened by kumare-style gurus.

            The Nature looks stunning too, but each to his own. America is the Mecca for the third world, even for the zealots of Mecca, and Osho wanted a piece of the American Dream. At least they have free speech enshrined in their constitution, which we are losing in Europe. I find that more troublesome.

            You are not left-wing…ha ha and the Pope is not Catholic! Works with ‘asylum seekers’, supports Corbyn, praises Castro, studied at the LSE…sure, whatever. Maybe anti-communist and authoritarian but quite socialist, no?

            In any case, in alignment with the anti-American leftist propaganda in Europe, if you describe them all as “gun-toting rednecks”, especially in today’s anti-Trump climate. Imagine the outcry if I described all Muslims as misogynistic neanderthals, not that I ever would!

            I like Orwell, of course, pointing out the dangers of the totalitarian Left in his most famous books, all too prescient today, but still self-avowedly left-wing (in a good way), just ask google!

            • Parmartha says:

              Studied at the LSE, Dominic, so did Ramesh Balsekar!
              I am not a Corbynite…I sometimes play that role to annoy right-wingers!

              I do not work with asylum seekers, but a sub-group, those who are authenticated victims of torture. That subgroup gives me a weekly dose of reality, and also a reminder of man’s inhumanity to man…easily forgotten.

              Such contact deepens one, and makes one realise that actually life is a very complex thing, and men often run from complexity to the straight world of prejudiced politics, as complexity is so unbearable.

              • dominic says:

                “…a reminder of man’s inhumanity to man…easily forgotten.”
                Yes, that’s why I come to Sannyas News, to remind myself!

                So you are merely playing the role of a comrade Corbynite, ‘common purpose’ Trotskyist? You had us all fooled! How do I know it’s not a double bluff and leftie ‘Taqqiya’?

                The proof of the pudding would be to know where your votes went on the London mayor, Brexit and general elections? And what your real views are then on a raft of topics, e.g. globalisation, open borders, mass immigration, sovereign nation state, Islam, George Soros (ex-LSE!). Or if I were to say “Donald Trump”, would you start foaming at the mouth with steam coming out of your ears? Your public needs to know!

                “Prejudiced politics” – you mean like gun-toting rednecks? ;)

                • Parmartha says:

                  During my now long life I met very elderly Germans who praised Hitler’s 1933 almost full employment policies, elderly Italians who were very pleased that Mussolini had the trains run on time, and Cubans who were very grateful as to their excellent medical care under Castro.

                  I am against left and right. Dictatorships of both right and left…but knowing how people experienced them – that makes for a more complex response.

                  The string is about Laxmi, she was a kind of benign dictator. The obedience she got was often very great, many did seem to love her.

                  Without this obedience she would never have created an efficient and effective organisation. Without it a multitude of people would never have got to know that Osho even existed. Maybe even people like you and me.

                  Methinks, Dom, that sometimes you are a bit over black-and-white.

                • dominic says:

                  Pot, kettle, black…This “complex response” smokescreen is another way of not saying much at all or knowing where you stand on anything!

                  Have I go this right then? You are against dictatorship, but support benign dictatorship in the context of ends justifying the means.

                  I have no idea about Laxmi, and this string seems to favour her over what came next. There’s a difference between strong leadership, being a boss, getting things done and mass murder (Hitler, Mussolini, Castro). Btw, “excellent medical care under Castro” is a myth:
                  http://www.nationalreview.com/article/432680/myth-cuban-health-care

                • frank says:

                  I would say that if we want to advance Osho`s vision, then we should definitely obey benign dictators now, as in the past. I think it`s pretty clear that the enlightened ones operate from a level far above our judgmental little minds.

                  I mean, if I was in a commune and the master ordered me to smash in the face of a long-term disciple in satsang for the sake of my spiritual growth, I wouldn`t waste time thinking – I would lay the guy out on the spot, especially if the victim was an annoying pseudo-hippie!

                  It`s very efficient and effective, as a Big P points out, as the guy who gets hit won`t step out of line again, for sure.

                  Osho was keen on dictators. He bigged up Stalin, and rightly so. Look how fucked-up the Sannyas scene is without a strong leader. We need a new dictator to kick-start things again.
                  If a few people get molested, beat up, buried or worse, what the hell, what`s new?

                  We`ve gotta get the message out to the masses somehow.

      • I think Osho loves disciples who can think and analyse rather than believe in beliefs.

        Parmartha, your post has vital questions, not many would like to raise.
        I also feel, giving humanness to Osho is much more spiritual than rebuilding master as messiah. Messiahs don´t make mistakes!

        • Parmartha says:

          May or may not be important questions, young Shantam.

          Jesus chose to go to Jerusalem in AD33, knowing it could be dangerous at just that moment…he could have chosen, especially in those days, simply to disappear.

          Sometimes these Masters have reasons we may not know, or even if we do know their reasons, find mad in the realm of ordinary logic.

          • frank says:

            1962, Laxmi.
            Now…AD 33?

            Have you got a time-machine stuck in reverse gear in your cellar. Big P?

            I`m surprised you think Jesus was some kind of whimsical Zen dharma bum following his feelings about where to go for the next water-into-wine hosanna party.

            Jesus`s trip into Jerusalem, including getting his disciples to hotrod a donkey to go downtown on was a deliberate plan to fulfil prophecies of the OT.

            Zechariah 9:9 – “Rejoice greatly, O people of Zion! Shout in triumph, O people of Jerusalem! Look, your king is coming to you. He is righteous and victorious, yet he is humble, riding on a donkey – even on a donkey’s colt.”

            Quite logical really.
            So, knowing all this, people would get the point of the whole movie, like John Wayne did:
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AejZxaYkekM

          • dominic says:

            It’s funny, P, you rightly question any intel about current events (eg Nozen), whether it’s true or a false flag and black ops from the opposition, but rarely about Buddha or Jesus or any of the usual suspects.

            I mean, firstly, did any of them even exist since nothing was written down till much later? It seems to make you happy to believe in ‘Masters’ and their flawed teachings’; personally, it stimulates the gag reflex in me. Each to his own, I suppose.

            • Parmartha says:

              You got this wrong, Dominic.
              I have no investment whatsoever in whether Jesus or anyone else ‘existed’ or not.

              The only thing I would state is that there are relationships, other than those demonic, one-to-one, male to female ones, in which most of the world, and most of the religions, are trapped.

              Another much better relationship, which can involve, but not always, non-possessive love, and can embed between those who might have become wise, and those who seek wisdom.

              Such communities based on that are rare, and can be easily undermined from within and from without, but still worth the work.

              • frank says:

                Big P refers to “those demonic, one-to-one, male-to-female relationships….”

                Demonic? Sounds a bit Calvinistic!
                I assume you are single, then!? You could always get Shantam to show you the ropes down at a few swingers clubs.

                And where are these communities based on “non-possessive love”? Mexico?
                That`s a good one.

              • dominic says:

                From “gun-toting rednecks” to “demonic, one-to-one, male to female relationships”. It just gets better and better! Thanks, P!

                Top tip: a
                A stake through the heart for any succubus I discover in my bedroom usually works for me!

    • swamishanti says:

      The Baba says: “Laxmi becomes servant of God….”

      But in this context he is talking about Laxmi, the Goddess of Wealth and prosperity, not the little Ma Laxmi.

      “And when someone is Enriched by Inside…Money follows just like that.
      People look for money but not Enriched by Inside
      And those who are Enriched by inside….
      Money touches their feet
      As I saw Osho Such an Ordinary Master…Became an owner of 100 Rolls
      Royces…and did not have a pocket. You see- the play.
      Because he was Enriched by Inside.
      Money was touching His feet.

      Money was getting blessed
      Whichever car he sat…
      became blessed Such was the state!
      The people he touched became blessed
      A person who is Enriched by Inside…
      He has attained to the Soul, he is enriched by Inside. And Money follows Enrichment like a slave. Laxmi becomes servant of God….”

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1269&v=V_KN8KdHzso

      • sw. veet (francesco) says:

        Swamishanti, for me each occasion is good to celebrate and share, I liked the video.

        In her autobiography, ‘The Journey of the Heart’, it is written that Laxmi grew up in a wealthy family.

        I did not meet Ma Laxmi, I got an idea of her almost by sharing of sannyasins, so I think she was worthy of the name given to her by Osho.

  6. Prem says:

    Crap idea, not to give sannyas anymore.

    Even after Osho left the body, receiving sannyas is a real energetic initiation, you really feel the master’s energy. It doesn’t matter if he’s not in the body.

    I guess the OIF dropped it because it’s one of those things that needs resources, but doesn’t bring any profit money-wise.

    But nowadays people just choose a name from a list, and think they have taken sannyas. Big mistake.

    But no one gives a rat’s ass if many new seekers are deceived that they have taken sannyas – when they in fact haven’t. Just because they call themselves by a new name, it doesn’t mean they have taken energy initiation from Osho.

    • Prem, I am sure most of the bloggers and sannyasins will agree with you on this point. Question is, who will tie the bell around alive and throbbing Mr. Sheela?!

      Matter of the fact is, just like royal Saudi Family is the custodian of Islam´s holiest shrines, one Irish Canadian family is the custodian of Osho´s legacy. From the fear that religion may get formed around Osho, they have taken away every symbol and gesture of emotional attachment.
      So is this.

      Yesterday evening there was a rare Osho event in Freiburg to celebrate Osho´s birthday. Hopefully will write a report about that.

      And Good Day to all the bloggers and readers. Today is 11th December. Someone was born on this day, who changed many people´s lives 180 degrees.

    • Lokesh says:

      Prem declares, “Even after Osho left the body, receiving sannyas is a real energetic initiation, you really feel the master’s energy. It doesn’t matter if he’s not in the body.”

      I would say it’s all in the mind. If you are a believer it will be so. If a doubter it will not. Not everyone who met Osho was impressed by his presence. Just the fact that someone took sannyas, even at Osho’s feet, meant their life would burst into a new dimension, is not true. It is all ideas and concepts projected onto the guru.

      The truth is you can walk a mile in a guru’s shoes but you can’t dance a step in their feet. In other words, you have to make the effort, nobody else can do it for you, not even the guru. I think almost all of this feeling Osho’s presence talk is bullshit, a projection, especially taking into consideration that he has been dead for some time.

      Why do people not take it on board that you have to be a light unto yourself instead of using the wise guys as a lifetime crutch?

    • dominic says:

      Receiving Jesus…I mean Osho, into our lives, through an initiation rite, I think, is all woo-woo, hocus-pocus, a placebo for the placego. A bit of theatre if you enjoy that sort of thing and no doubt emotional for some. As an event in former times, it bonded the tribe, with live music, dancing and singing, but lately it’s a pale shadow of its former self, at least when I was last in the cashram.

      We would all love someone to hold our hand, a family to belong to, a wise and good father/guide to believe in, a partner to hold, an ideology to order the world, an ashram to thrive in, but eventually with the years and sorting through the BS you return full circle to yourself and then just…keep on truckin’.

      • sw. veet (francesco) says:

        “keep on truckin’”

        …alone, without music & dance, surrendered to an ugly world, without any placebo for this sadness except that one of belief in one’s own BS.

        • dominic says:

          No need to be alone unless you want to be. There are more opportunities for music and dance and celebrating than ever before, all cyberly connected. A large,worldwide sub-culture of shamanic ecstatic trance dance tantra hugging bioenergetic hippie thailand bali maui ibiza goa premalmiten kirtan yoga meditating vegan smoothie djembe playing ayahuasca Aum kundalini neo-advaita permaculture astral travelling bohochic ravers, that exists for you to enjoy. Much of the Osho eclectic and dynamic spirit has diffused into it, with none of the baggage!

          The zeitgeist has changed, and will always change. There are still some communes and centres if you want that, but the big commune days are gone. To rely on the outside too much for your happiness is building your house on sand. There is beauty and ugliness in the world as there is in Sannyas (certainly on this page, with all the bitching). Which one do you contribute to, when you disagree with something?

          Yes, one has to stay vigilant and reflect upon one’s own BS, which is often unthinking programming absorbed from the outside. It’s always a work in progress….

          • sw. veet (francesco) says:

            Dominic, my contribution was implicit in the comment, stating it’s BS to confuse Osho with Jesus, a Tribe with Sannyas, regardless of those who officiated the initiation rites, in the presence of the Master or not.

            To be clearer, I state that there are no Sheelas, oyster invasions in the Resort (in search of champagne), Ozen or Tallio that can stop the wave set in motion by the old guy.

            If he is destined to become a classic, we with our lives are too small to draw conclusions today.

            The Christian collective consciousness looks at the zeitgeist as a before and after Jesus, although there exists an apocryphal translation of his teachings, Totem and Taboo have remained intact, those of the tribes.

            Man continued with his neuroses to oscillate between sin and sanctity, but since then he has at least been able to count on someone to hold his hand, a less severe father/guide than the Jewish God of Brit Millah.

            http://lyricstranslate.com/en/laudate-hominem-laudate-hominem.html
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_buona_novella

            But before the Nazarene in the East there had been another turning point of consciousness, the awakening of Gautama the Buddha; for those men who absorbed his spirit the birth of Jesus is irrelevant.

            Something was still missing: Zorba.

            I hope I was quite assertive, otherwise you could listen to Him:
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRoNHBl41p0

            • dominic says:

              I see you have written a mini-thesis here, Veet! There’s evidence to suggest that Jesus and Buddha are mythical not historical characters, i.e. not real. As for their teachings, I think they are flawed and of their time, even though buddhism and mindfulness (or rather mindlessness) has gained a strong foothold in the West.

              There was more than just Zorba missing but this was a big life-positive contribution from Osho to an otherwise dry and heady spiritual scene.

              You seem to be an Osho devotee, which is alien to me. I’ve never felt someone had all the answers, or had the faith you appear to have.

              • sw. veet (francesco) says:

                Talking about faith to me, an iconoclast, it is bizarre how to listen to Tommaso Buscetta complaining that the Mafia is no longer what it used to be.

                We need to put things in perspective; I do not know you and vice versa, let’s base on what we write. You contribute to a site that welcomes all sannyasins, are you an ex or an alien?

                If it is not a trap and the site managers are not for some reason corroded by the cancer of resentment towards Osho or Sannyas in general, then love and gratitude should prevail in their work, for Osho and his world, us.

                If you ask me ironically what my contribution is when I disagree with your BS then do not complain if you receive more answers than you expected, it is not kind.

                I usually write more question marks than exclamation points, and the answers I can give myself, also thanks to the other bloggers, are a small percentage.

                You are free to make irony and hypothesis about my supposed devotion and I to continue to feel at home here.

                Before judging my too many answers why do not you try to ask yourself more questions?

                • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

                  You wrote yesterday, Veet Franceso : “I hope I was quite assertive….”

                  I bet you are/have been. And thank you for this today.

                  With Love,

                  Madhu

          • Lokesh says:

            Hi Dominic, I was just shopping in the big open market, so Spanish, so full of life, many salt-of-the-earth people…and then it crossed my mind…there is little difference from how born-again Christians talk and Catholic sannyasins talk, in terms of feeling the master’s presence.

            So I agree. I also agree that the zeitgeist is always changing and that is why we keep on truckin’.

            • dominic says:

              That’s right Lokesh, keep calm and keep on truckin’ as best you can, what else can one do?
              As for born again Sannyas zealots, they have been initiated, become true believers and lost the burden of having to think for themselves.

          • Parmartha says:

            All this is true, Dominic, but sadly, many, many, people ARE lonely. I have and have had them as patients and clients.

            An armful of advice does not help; in the end most of the world lives a lonely life rather than a journey of the alone to the alone…and God is only interested in the latter!

            • dominic says:

              This is true, Parmartha. Who doesn’t feel lonely sometimes, even though with a partner and community you might be temporarily shielded from it? Perhaps, given the way we live today, loneliness is the next big thing or pandemic. But I can remember also feeling lonely in a commune or in a relationship – the worst kind of loneliness.

              Advice is cheap. I don’t know the answer, sometimes it is to just be with it, sometimes to get more engaged with life and people, and sometimes to eat ice cream and watch a good movie. These modern times, with no religion, little community, break up of traditional family, carry a lot of angst, which doesn’t get any easier as you get older. No wonder cults and their ‘lovebombing’ and simple certainties are so compelling.

            • sw. veet (francesco) says:

              Parmartha, I wonder if there are more those who avoid themselves or others, if it is still true that we grow up knowing ourselves through others, or, instead, if being with others is a way to escape from ourselves.

              I suppose you give “an armful of advice” because you can not embrace your clients, if you want to stay in the WHO frame, but if you could, for which one of the two groups would you recommend one of your experiences of community life?

  7. “When the bank where you deposited or worked goes bust you also lose the right to teach finance and economics.”

    This is the ground reality of Sannyas Inc. So Lokesh and Dominic will always have the upper hand in any discussion.

    • Lokesh says:

      Shantam, I am not sure how much it has to do with having an upper hand as opposed to simply seeing what is. If SN is a reflection of Sannyas today it often reflects sentimentality for days long ago. Look at this thread: Laxmi! The previous: Osho goes to a bistro back in the Sixties!

      Such topics are an antithesis of what Sannyas was built on: dropping the past and living today.

      • Kavita says:

        Lokesh, frankly, not everyone can be totally in the present and also there can’t be present without the past; it’s easy to make claims of the present.

        I agree past brings in nostalgia, but maybe there can be two kind of remembrances: one to crave about the past (eg: Shantam) and the other is just the remembrance of the past without any lamenting.

        Of course, words like ashram, commune, sangha can be explored but ultimately all is data (thank you, Shantam), even the present!

        • Lokesh says:

          Kavita, perhaps I phrased it wrong.

          By living in the moment or present I mean a state of being wherein you are present. The past will be there, but you will recognize it for what it is, dead and gone, babe. The future too but it never arrives, because when it does it’s the present.

          That does not mean you have to sit in a cave chanting Om all day. And even if you do you will still have to take care of food, heat and water, which requires the use of the mind that only exists in past and present, and a most useful thing it is too.

          So being present is where it is at. I lost contact with that today and paid heavily for it. My mind took over and hauled in emotional big guns for back-up. Armaggedon time on the battlefield of my psyche. I am off to bed to heal my wounds. Big poker game tomorrow night. Get the picture?

        • dominic says:

          How can you ever not be in the present, even if your mind is trippin’, which it often is? Trapped emotion or tension often takes us into the head and creates stories or compulsive thinking which goes round and round, creating vicious circles of anxiety etc. So if you keep drifting back to something in the past (or in the future) you can’t let go of, there might be some energy behind that needs to resolve/release.

          ‘Being present’ is not really just an act of will, that you can force upon yourself. You bring awareness to what’s going on, and the being present is like a by-product.

          • Kavita says:

            So are you saying this whole thing about being in the present, which mostly all masters share verbally does not make any sense at all? & does bringing awareness come naturally?

            • dominic says:

              Aah, sorry, Kavita, I junked it, I didn’t want to sound too wise! Yeah, being in the present is where it’s at, it just sounds overly simplistic sometimes, as if it were just an act of will. Say, for example, you feel broken-hearted, from a lover, and you can’t stop thinking about them (or you lost the ashram which was home to you ;) ), you probably need to grieve and go through some feelings that are the driver for all the distressed thinking.

              Telling someone to just pull themselves together and be present, or do potentially dissociative practices like self-inquiry and mindfulness, to me is not really helpful. Yeah, being present means being aware in a feelingful, empathic way.

      • satchit says:

        Lokesh, just a question:
        Is the Ozen & friends story more sannyas-like for you? At least they live today, or not? And it was good entertainment for you.

        I can understand that P. finished the string.
        For half, the guru is the hero – for the other half, he is the fake devil. I doubt that this scenario would have changed.

        • Lokesh says:

          I really can’t say much about Ozen in all honesty, SS. One person says this and another says that and I am left to draw my own conclusions. It’s hardly a hot issue in my life. Thing is, it is a current issue, and therefore more interesting than re-runs of episodes from Osho’s and even Laxmi’s life, people who I actually met and talked to.

          What made Osho special was his energy, his vibe, the way he worked with different people, all of which I witnessed. Such impressions will probably remain with me for the remainder of my life. If I wish I can recall and reflect upon them, if a certain situation in life requires that, something which rarely happens. It is therefore that reading about past episodes from Osho’s life holds little of interest for me.

          Osho was no different from any of us, in that he had a past. I do not bother much with my past so why be bothered about someone else’s? No matter who they were. Is kind of how I see it. I learned what I could from Osho and moved on to learn from others and from what life has to teach me and is still teaching. It never ends.

          Of course, not everyone will see it like that. That is none of my business. On the other hand, if I read a comment on SN that I see is based in pure shite I might have something to say about it, something which is in my nature, apparently a creation of the three gunas.

          If I were to have a say in the content of threads on SN, I would say keep it current. If you want to read about Osho’s past read one of his books, like Glimpses of a Golden Childhood. There you will find what Osho found important enough to convey about his past. I find it more stimulating to read about how Osho affects peoples’ lives today.

          By that I don’t mean mysteriously feeling his presence and all that projected bunk. I mean in practical terms. How one integrates something they learned from Osho and integrated it into their life in such a way as to perhaps help them cope with life’s pressures, deal with life in a more intelligent and loving way, or maybe enjoy life more etc.

          I enjoy SN for the most part. It can be fun, educational, crazy etc. If I don’t like what’s going on that is my problem, but it’s not a problem because I have plenty of other things to do and that require my attention.

          For me, SN would be more attractive if it dropped boring subject matter like legal battles that the OIF is involved in, stories about Osho’s distant past and now, in this case, Laxmi’s story. Let them rest in peace. Surely they did enough while alive to promote living in the present instead of digging up their bones and going over them with a fine-tooth comb in the graveyard of the past?

          • Lokesh, it is not possible to drop Osho´s distant past among his people. It is like three years of Jesus are quoted every day in thousands of church sermons.

            Now question comes, are Osho and Jesus in the same league? For disciples, He is even better than all others. Master of the masters (Lols).

            So howsoever few disciples try to be rational, emotional stuff is going to stay because founder of Sannyas encouraged it. Does not matter what books says, Osho himself has encouraged devotional aspect, call it hero-worshipping.

            As far as court cases are concerned, thank God it is not all-out militia war between Catholics and Protestants. Non-violent people fight cleverly.

            It is like Jains, being the shrewdest yet non-violent business people, won´t go for your neck but will ruin you reputation in the market. In my understanding, psychological gang war between two main factions can be used as a tool to understand one´s own temperament and inclinations. The situations are wonderful to make us understand complexity of human mind.

            Meditation and contemplation is a very long-term process, and it must take minimum few lives to get ripe.

          • satchit says:

            “For me, SN would be more attractive if it dropped boring subject matter like legal battles that the OIF is involved in, stories about Osho’s distant past and now, in this case, Laxmi’s story.”

            SN does you a favour, Loco.
            Relaxing in boredom is your path!

            Maybe until now you did not know and you always did escape into excitement.

            • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

              You are a good role model (for me), Satchit, responding to arrogance and ignorance in a positive and humorous, constructice way instead of being lost in anger or bitterness (what happens quite often in ´my case’).

              Thank you for this.

              Madhu

              • satchit says:

                Yes, Madhu,
                Life is not nice, life is not an uncle to us.

                Lately I was thinking to myself:
                “39 years of sannyas – and still not enlightened. This really can make one bitter.”

                • sw. veet (francesco) says:

                  Satchit, only a couple of days ago I discovered that my sweet F. left us. It happened during the summer while I was away for work.

                  After our brief relationship, we shared some more or less peaceful periods of our lives over the past 27 years.

                  F. not only physically looks a bit like Laxmi, Italian parents, but she was born in Cambridge, and at school English humour stamped her tanned skin: Pakistani. A simple woman, strong and capable worker, hair-cutting teacher (Tony and Guy), caring mother, generous friend, a big heart with a warm smile…I miss her.

                  When I was her boy I realized that I could not match her intense and exclusive love, I had to free myself from a lot of repression and I dreamed of India; I collapsed and told her that I could not share her family project. I did not know that I had opened up a trend of abandonments that she would then live with her daughter’s father and other men.

                  Over the years I sought her forgiveness and understanding, without ever knowing if this made her more suspicious of me; we quarrelled sometimes for this.

                  This is my bitterness, Satchit.

                  If it is true that the enlightenment is sometimes a side-effect of a strong pain, then I would immediately give up this possibility to have her still with us.

                  In my last unanswered mail this is how I wanted to make her smile, once again…
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKaHYPEK7Uo

  8. Related with the article, I have an impression that if Laxmi was alive during the time commune was changed into Resort, she would have done something remarkable and not just filing court cases against the occupiers.

    Has someone noticed, Laxmi stuff started coming out once the expelled Indians got settled in Delhi/Dharamshala?

    When one listens to the stories from resort sympathisers, another picture emerges of Laxmi, a manipulative and politically well connected lady, who tried her best that faithful westerners around Osho didn’t get Indian visas.

    I don´t know how truth lies in this story. One fact is clear: she was not resident or was not allowed during Osho´s second and final abode in Pune.

    • Lokesh says:

      What difference does any of that make to your life, Shantam? An honest answer would be refreshing.

      • Religion, spirituality, cults, ashrams and their places and people behind them are of interest.

        I don´t watch movies, Hindi movies not at all, I don´t watch cricket on television or live, I am also not very ambitious to earn money, one of those rare few in Germany who has the luxury of free time. My passion is to understand human mind and its complex responses. For this reason, months after months I go on buying astrology books to understand one more point about us the human beings.

        I have never participated in active politics though it attracts me immensely. So sannyas affairs fulfil my deeper interest. It has religion, spirituality and politics, and moreover, I love the people involved.

    • Kavita says:

      “I have an impression that if Laxmi was alive during the time commune was changed into Resort…”
      Probably commune changed to Resort in 2001. I don’t need to refute your impression but the fact is Laxmi died in 1995, so maybe your impression could change?!
      http://www.sannyas.wiki/index.php?title=Ma_Yoga_Laxmi

      I don´t know how truth lies in this story. One fact is clear: she was not resident or was not allowed during Osho´s second and final abode in Pune. This seems quite interesting to explore!

  9. samarpan says:

    “It is not clear why Osho ditched her.” (Parmartha)

    I just finished reading the book. If I remember correctly, the book says Sheela told Osho that the Pune 1 department heads did not want Laxmi to continue in her role. Osho asked for signatures. Sheela got some signatures of department heads. So Osho went with Sheela as secretary…and Laxmi began searching for a larger property in India. That’s what I understood from my reading of the book.

    • Lokesh says:

      Sam, apart from a load of information about things long past, did you actually find anything in the book that adds to your life today?

      • samarpan says:

        Lokesh, what do you mean by “adds to your life”? My experience is that reading is in the present and is enjoyable. Does something ever need to be ‘added’ beyond in-the-moment enjoyment?

        • Lokesh says:

          Thanks for the response, Sam.

          You ask, what do you mean by “adds to your life”? I mean did you get anything else out of reading the book apart from enjoyment? I read books from time to time that actually change the way I feel, perceive etc. The books I am referring to contain something that you can integrate into your life and add a certain something that can be viewed as a positive addition.

          I too read for pleasure. Currently, I am revisiting Sebastian Faulks’s ‘Birdsong’. A truly remarkable work of fiction. Highly recommended, although definitely not for the faint-hearted.

          I have read many books about people who had something to do with Osho, in some way or another. Too many perhaps, because such subject matter no longer interests me. I liked Laxmi. A real character. I think she did as much as Osho in terms of the early formation of the Sannyas movement.

          • samarpan says:

            “I mean did you get anything else out of reading the book apart from enjoyment.” (Lokesh).

            No.

            • Lokesh says:

              Funny enough, I just thought about you, Sam, when I read a blurb on the back cover of ‘Birdsong’:
              “This is literature at its very best. A book with the power to reveal the unimagined, so that one’s life is set in a changed context.”

              It just so happens that I agree with the critic and it supplies a pointer to what I was driving at, at least to a certain extent.

  10. On the way to the church after my part-time job, a thought came in me: “Surely I will buy the book, whenever a title comes something like, ‘Sheela: Her Biography: Her Untold Story.’

    This book will surely have treasure of sensational information about working of human mind and the mind in the No Mind people. I have Sheela’s email address. I can even suggest her to write her biography.

    Once I sat on the chair in the church and after setting the alarm I asked me, “Will I help Sheela to write her book? Would I ask relevant questions to make book more authentic?” The way I know the sannyas mind at power centre, it has its deep shadow side, it never, ever accept its mistakes. It has the logic to put burden on others and remain guilt-free always.

    It was clear within seconds, I cannot be part of any project where Sheela is the boss.

    Basically, I will never be part of any project which is controlled by any individual, howsoever smart that person may be. According to the Aquarius age, spirituality has to be Sangha-based and not Buddha-based.

    Osho was channelling this energy, that is why essence of all his teachings from the very beginning was to create a place which has magnetic pull to attract seekers types who can drop the daddy fixation sooner than later.

    • dominic says:

      “Osho was channelling this energy, that is why essence of all his teachings from the very beginning was to create a place which has magnetic pull to attract seekers types who can drop the daddy fixation sooner than later.”

      Seems to me the opposite is true and that Osho revelled in the guru cult, a theocracy with a God-king, in the tantric ‘anything goes’ tradition.

      As for leadership, I think it’s ok, as long as there are checks and balances, openness, feedback, discussion, free media, conflict resolution etc. All pretty absent from the sannyas mindset.

      • swamishanti says:

        The thing about Osho is he had friends in high places, scattered around India with large villas and houses, and enough support and devotees like Laxmi who could channel funds where necessary.

        He also had hoof and power, and he had it where it counts energetically. The seven udders were open.

        He had imbibed a lot of knowledge and he was also able to deliver superb talks in both English and Hindi.

        • Maybe I have forgotten, swamishanti, what nationality you are from?

          • frank says:

            Hello, baba!
            Coming from?
            What is your native place?
            What is your good name?
            Married or single?
            How much one cup tea in your country?
            I have cousin brother in Derby, also in Toronto. You know them?
            Father`s name?
            You want cheap room?
            Come…I show you…only one furlong….

            • shantam prem says:

              Comedians can come from anywhere. Has anybody seen others giving thoughts to the views of comedians?

              Even at this site, others enjoy funny, ironical, sarcastic posts of few faceless geniuses – but to discuss with them!

              Maybe faceless Frank and Swamishanti are two names of single entity!

              • frank says:

                Ha!
                You very lucky fellow!
                Have very lucky face!
                Lucky hand, too!
                You live very long life!
                I read many astrology books, much knowledge!

                In West, scientists land on moon, here in India, using ancient Vedic science of ancient Vedic science of banana-skin Vaastu, we discover how to land on Uranus!

                Uranus is my specialist subject! I read all about it in Linda Goodman`s love signs!

                You give me 100 rupees, I show you name of girlfriend on back of piece of paper!

                I read your akashik record on this palm leaf, look, very scientific.

                And then I clean ear too.
                Ho…baba…come back….

          • swamishanti says:

            I am Britisher, baba.

            • shantam prem says:

              Shanti, in response to your post where you mentioned about Osho’s friends with influence and large villas, it is not true about Osho. It is not even true for Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, but Acharya Rajneesh.
              As long as rich Jains and Hindus were thinking Acharya propagating their religious heritage they were all open with their hearts and purses.

              Once they realised Mr. was using them for his own new religious movement they felt offended and used.

              To be true, Indian story have not forgiven Osho, that is why none of the Indian Prime Ministers have ever remembered Osho on his birthday or death anniversary.

              Even in the West, do you think Google will ever make Osho doodle? That is why I insist Osho priests should not care about getting acknowledgement from the world at large. They should appreciate few hundred thousand people around the world who opened their heart for Osho.

              • swamishanti says:

                Hey, man, I once met a guy in India, from a Jaina family, who told me that “Rajneesh” had use dto stay with his wealthy aunty in her villa when he visited Mumbai. I have mentioned this on SN before.

                But he told me that his auntie was very fond of Rajneesh, but he had changed and “lost his sense of right and wrong.”

                His father used to spend time with both Osho and J.Krishnamurti. Once his father took him to visit Rajneesh in the sixties who he remembered in awe as being “very magnetic”.

                But he felt,like other Jains that Osho had gone the wrong way, perhaps because of the influence of Westerners.

                But –
                What does this mean?:
                “Even in the West, do you think Google will ever make Osho doodle?”

                • Hey, man if you are little bit net savvy, you know it is a big thing when google remembers legends of various fields and create doodles on their birthdays etc. Here is one randomly chosen link about its importance:

                  http://www.floretmedia.com/blog/google-doodles-important/

                • swamishanti says:

                  He was magnetic, Osho, really magnetic. A bit like Rasputin. Large crowds would be mesmerised by him.

                  If he wanted to, he could put his hand out and stop you in your tracks. That’s what he did with federal enforcement agents when they were running towards him on the tarmac at the airport in North Carolina. He just put his hand out and they would stop with their tongue hanging out, a dazed and confused look on their faces.

                  He couldn’t quite match the tricks of Sai Baba by manifesting flowers and parrots or glueing his nasty schoolteacher to the wall though.

                  In the young Osho’s case, he just complained to the Headmaster and got the teacher fired for torturing the students by pushing pencils in between their fingers and squeezing.

      • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

        What is “sannyas mindset” in your experience, Dominic?

        • dominic says:

          The “Sannyas Mindset”, in a very general sense, reflects the guru pyramid scheme. Everything else is a trickle-down from that really. The emphasis is on surrender, doing as you’re told, essentially in an unquestioning way. People who rock the boat tend to get the boot or leave, and they are painted as flawed in some way. The communication media, what little there is, is all about how perfect and wonderful everything is in Shangri-la.

          So it’s a cult mindset, which discourages critical thinking and discussion. Anything ‘off’ that is happening gets interpreted as a ‘device’ or crazy wisdom or some such, so that you stop trusting yourself and intrinsic sense of right and wrong, aka ‘gaslighting’.

          It’s pretty efficient at getting things done, building cities and communes at speed, but when things go awry, it’s just as fast at falling apart.

          • satchit says:

            Dominic,
            It is always funny when people like you, who have never taken sannyas, talk from the outside about “Sannyas Mindset”.

            I tell you what: In my sannyas life, which is more than 39 years, I have never done anything that I did not want. And I was never forced by whomever to do something that I did not want.

            Things like surrender happen also in normal life. Nobody forces you to surrender. Even here on this forum you have to surrender because you cannot write what you want. Maybe you can write, but it will not be published, ha ha.

            • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

              “Things like surrender happen also in normal life. Nobody forces you to surrender. Even here on this forum you have to surrender because you cannot write what you want. Maybe you can write, but it will not be published, ha ha.” ( Satchit)

              So true, Satchit. Truth with the small letters, you know?
              To make your addition of technical possibilities even fuller, one could also mention those playing IT games of ´ego-shootings’ or those games of buggers-data-abuse-or phishing games.
              Those which are up to a kind of Bolly-Hollywood Reality-Soap Gameshow-Script.

              Just by stealing – what and wherefore people put their effort of writing into. (Ha, Ha..).

              We are still in the thread about Laxmi, aren´t we? As I well remembered these days the SN/UK report of one of the master-buggers of the Ranch in Oregon, who did thoroughly misuse Laxmi’s privacy in the A-frame. It was so boring, Julien, the perpetrator. was mentioned to have said to his friend…No chilling sex scene WITH LAXMI, no crime-plotting to be heard of through the bugs. How boring for Julien…

              He´s still a fugitive IT and otherwise Technician, isn´t he? Most probably a very well paid master data-bugger of this very contemporary time, a zeitgeist that was yet to come.

              Shadow-work.

              Some don´t mind. Nor yesterday, nor today….

              Madhu

          • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

            “As for leadership, I think it’s ok, as long as there are checks and balances, openness, feedback, discussion, free media, conflict resolution etc. All pretty absent from the sannyas mindset.” ( Dominic, 13 December, 2017 at 4:05 pm)

            My question to you, Dominic, did arise after I read your post from the day before. Thanks for taking the effort of a further response. I´ve been reading that too.

            All I can say just now is: where there is so much pain, hurt, revengeful feelings, rage and hate online and such a bunch of shock-fixed mind-patterns (in terms of ´mindsets´ and ´mind-settings´ vice versa the fantasies about others’ stuff) to address a questioning there most probably existed or exists same amount of love hidden.

            Balance of TAO is not a small challenge for the soul, but a very big one to digest and nobody can deliver a recognition for one another for such, I´d say. Neither you for me, nor me for you.

            I´m just wondering if you get some relief out of it when you kind of obsessively SN-chat-wise degrade sannyasins you never knew, nor – as it seems to be – ever wanted or want to know.

            A virtual chat with others is a kind of merciless mirror.

            But one has to look into it – and even more challenging in my eyes is to grow a capacity of responding to one another. At total risk, I feel.

            And one of the essential risks of SN/UK chat, is – for me – that no mind-set at all, neither sannyas-like nor otherwise seems to be functioning according to our ´good´-or-´bad´ intentions…

            I´m leaving you and me with my wondering at and about today and best wishes -

            Madhu

  11. Kavita says:

    MOD, just for more clarity:
    I wrote this post as a response to the now missing Dominic’s post which was after Lokesh’s post of 12 December, 2017 at 10:15pm:

    Kavita says:
    13 December, 2017 at 10:49 am
    So are you saying this whole thing about being in the present, which mostly all masters share verbally does not make any sense at all? & does bringing awareness come naturally?

  12. Parmartha says:

    It was always rumoured that late 1984 Osho did speak to Laxmi and told her he wanted to leave the Ranch and America, and leave it to Sheela. And told Laxmi to go and find somewhere in India for a new commune…

    This rumour was persistent at the time, and apparently is mentioned in Rashid’s book. But I have never seen any evidence that this exchange ever happened, and it might seem a rather convenient rumour for those whom others sometimes call, the “Delhi people”!

    She did, however, come back to Delhi in early 1985, but was also suffering from cancer.

    • swamishanti says:

      If any such exchange between Osho and Laxmi did indeed take place it almost certainly would have been listened to by Sheela’s surveillance operation.

      As one of the technicians on the Ranch pointed out in his book, ‘The Day We Got Guns’, Laxmi’s trailer was bugged and all her conversations were taped.

      It was also alleged that she also got a daily dose of poison in her cup of juice for six months, and was complaining of stomach problems and nausea similar to Amrito, who was also given daily doses by Sheela.

      • sannyasnews says:

        Thanks, Shanti.
        What is your reference for the story of Laxmi being poisoned?

        • swamishanti says:

          Somewhere in the book, ‘Day We Got Guns’, the author talks about this incident. I think Osho spoke about it somewhere.

          Maybe I’ll have a look sometime.

          • swamishanti says:

            “Then Vivek was poisoned, then Devaraj was poisoned four times.

            And just today my mother came to see me…

            And this is the ugliest thing of all. She has done many ugly things. Laxmi had operations, major operations, in which her ovaries are removed, and some other parts of the stomach are removed. And she was sick few days before. She was hospitalized. Since then she started getting better. She came back to her place, and she was feeling very good and recovering.

            Last day, when Sheela left, just one hour before, Prateeksha, Sheela’s sister, came with a glass of juice – and she had never come. All this time Laxmi has been here, Prateeksha had never come even to see her.

            And she drank the juice, and immediately became badly sick. And she is already in a dying position. Now to poison her?

            They must have thought that to leave Laxmi alive is dangerous, because as far as coming from India is concerned, they have committed many crimes. But they thought because they are never coming back, so who cares? Just once they are out of the country….”

      • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

        “As one of the technicians on the Ranch pointed out in his book, ‘The Day We Got Guns’, Laxmi’s trailer was bugged and all her conversations were taped.” (Swamishanti).

        My today’s email referring to that inconvenient truth SN offered us chat contributors for a read (Prem Rajesh´s book with the chapter re late Ma Laxmi´s harassment by surveillance and buggers and intrigues) disappeared…so I´am glad you are mentioning it, Swamishanti.

        Otherwise, I´d say we should leave some memoir to the friends who loved and knew late Laxmi intimately and personally, as those who did criminal actions in the Sangha obviously more than less leave some testimony only after they’ve died.

        It hurts.

        Madhu

        • Parmartha says:

          Sorry, Madhu, about the apparent disappearance of this string, not sure what happened there.
          SN does have enemies and some of them are very computer literate.

  13. Parmartha says:

    I am neither approving nor not of Laxmi’s benign dictatorship. I just want to show those who are either for or against it that without it many of us would never have heard of Osho. It may be that there are those who think that would have been a good thing.

    I am keen to witness that Pune 1 was not a democratic place because sometimes I feel this goes unacknowledged.

    • satchit says:

      “I am keen to witness that Pune 1 was not a democratic place because sometimes I feel this goes unacknowledged.”

      I think no place where the master/disciple paradigm is played can be a democratic place. The paradigm means there is someone with higher consciousness and others with lower consciousness.

      Democracy would mean all are on the same level of consciousness.

      • shantam prem says:

        During the peak days with Osho at the last leg of his life around 6000-7500 people were around him.

        In a country of 870 million people in 1990, 6000-7500 people are negligible in numbers but their demography is exceptional as they were from more than 20 highly developed countries. From these maximum 7500 people, Osho chose 20 people to run the day-to-day affairs of the commune and see its further expansion.

        It means 1 trustee after every 250 disciples. What more one can do for democracy and voice of the disciples?

        What more we can expect from a dying master, master who is going to the other shore, never ever to come again?

        Think over this, my friends.

      • Parmartha says:

        I have met a number of people who readily accepted (more so than me) the surrender and non- democratic aspects of Pune 1.
        But who then later in life say that was it’s major fault!
        They can’t have their cake and eat it.

      • Parmartha says:

        Satchit, I am simply saying it is good to acknowledge this, because with the fan mail that seems to be coming in about the new book on Laxmi, they make out that Laxmi was some kind of higher being. I don’t share that view at all.

        • satchit says:

          Really? Some higher being?
          She was only, like Sheela, the CEO of the organization. He mentioned also that it is more difficult to surrender to the organisation than to him.

  14. samarpan says:

    “Things like surrender happen also in normal life.” (Satchit)

    In the book, which I enjoyed reading, Laxmi does come to the understanding that surrender is acceptance of what is.

    • satchit says:

      “Acceptance of what is” can also mean accepting the non-acceptance.

    • shantam prem says:

      Quality of surrender is much more visible who stay with their one or two traditional religious books.

      They are the ones who have roots and wings like the trees who have seen seasons around.