Osho Answers from the Silence, 1982

ED BRADLEY OF THE 60 MINUTES TEAM VISITED RANCHO RAJNEESH (Rajneeshpuram)  in Oregon in  May, 1982,  when Osho was in silence. He forwarded four questions to Osho who sent these short replies by letter. The answers still seem to us to have force and are worthy of comment. (SN)

Q: ARE YOU GOD?

Osho: There is not God, hence the question does not arise. “Bhagwan” does not mean God, it simply means “The Blessed One.” The very idea of God is non-democratic. Either everything is God or nothing is God.

osho172Osho on the Ranch around this time

Q: IN A LETTER TO WILLIAM JAMES, OLIVER WENDELL HOLMES WROTE: “THE GREAT ACT OF FAITH IS WHEN A MAN DECIDES THAT HE IS NOT GOD.” PLEASE COMMENT.

Osho: Faith has nothing to do with religion. Faith is rooted in believing in something you know nothing of. It is a way of covering your ignorance. Religion is not belief or faith but knowing. The whole of human history has been ninety-nine-point-nine percent just stupid — because of faith. But all the so-called religions preach it, because that is the easiest way to exploit.
Neither William James knows anything about religion, nor Wendell Holmes.

Q: WHAT IS ENLIGHTENMENT? YOU ONCE SAID IT WAS LIKE CHOCOLATE. TRUE?

Osho: Enlightenment is coming to know that there is nothing to know. In other words, existence is a mystery and there is no way to demystify it. To know it and to live it is not intellectual; it is a taste — hence I have called it like chocolate. Either you have tasted it or you have not tasted it. There is no position in between.

Q: ALL OF THE FOLLOWING, LIKE YOU, WERE OR ARE ABLE TO STRONGLY INFLUENCE THE MASSES. WERE OR ARE ANY OF THEM ENLIGHTENED? — POPE JOHN PAUL, RABBI BA’AL SHEMTOV (THE ‘MASTER OF THE GOOD NAME’ WHO TAUGHT THAT MAN REACHES GOD THROUGH JOY RATHER THAN SORROW), MARTIN LUTHER KING, HITLER.

Osho: Religion is absolutely an individual and private experience, like love. In fact, there is no way to know whether Hitler knew any experience of love or not. At the most through their words and acts we can infer:
– Pope John Paul certainly is not enlightened.
– and Rabbi Ba’al Shemtov is certainly enlightened.
– Martin Luther King is a good man, but not enlightened.
– and, of course, Hitler is not and cannot be enlightened.
The really enlightened person has no desire to influence the masses. If they are influenced, that is another matter: “The wild geese do not intend to cast their reflections; the water has no mind to receive their image.”

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97 Responses to Osho Answers from the Silence, 1982

  1. Arpana says:

    I have no idea why, but when he gives such cryptic answers to questions like this I just want to laugh.

    • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

      Did I miss something, Arpana, that I don´t find anything “cryptic” in these answers? As I found them clear as the clear sky or a clear water without ripples…

      And your friend you had an exchange with at the end of the eighties made indeed a fine distinction.

      Madhu

      • Arpana says:

        ‘Succinct’ or ‘brevity’ would have been better words on reflection, Madhu; much, much better.

        Osho could have just as easily delivered a three hour lecture in response to any of these questions, so your remark to me has made me wonder why he was so succinct, although I am never going to know the answer to that one, so I won’t dwell too long.

        • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

          Yes, Arpana, I know what you mean (by experiencing it).

          And yet – although I pretty much always try my best to relate to the complexity of time-space co-ordinates, something comes into appearance, like this quote of responses to questions and comes into appearance again (and again?) that just happens, response-wise, not due to any specific effort of mine.

          • frank says:

            Pope John Paul was not enlightened but I think Pope John Paul George and Ringo would have done a better job.

            “Turn off your mind, relax and float down stream….”

  2. Kavita says:

    SN, when I read this post – I don’t know why – it felt like you have hit many birds with this one stone!

    • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

      No need, Kavita, to ´hit´ and use a ´stone´ in my understanding, or does one have to ´hit´ in your eyes?

      Or didn´t I get what you wanted to say therewith properly, not unlike that it happens sometimes when I´m reading your statements?

      Tea-Time….

      Madhu

      • Kavita says:

        Madhu, the saying is “to kill two birds with one stone” – I thought I’d made that mild by saying “hit”!

        In any case, I said already I don’t know why.

        • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

          Thanks for responding, Kavita. Little breath-taking when I read it…

          Tea Time is meant for me: just to remember, while sipping the tea: ´change is all there is´.

          Need for a walk(-about), get the laundry done, etc.

          Cloudy sky today…

          Madhu

          • Kavita says:

            Btw, Madhu, it’s raining here & I love to see different shades of shimmering foliage all around!

            • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

              How nice, Kavita,

              We had a little Bavarian Monsoon rain too; found shelter underneath a big umbrella from a Thai Bistro and had coffee and cake standing, as they had closed the shop.

              Watching the people rushing in and out of the station.
              Quite something else than watching the thirsty greenery is watching humans.

              So – I really loved your report from India´s greenery.

              Madhu

  3. Arpana says:

    ”Martin Luther King is a good man, but not enlightened.”

    A friend of mine, not a sannyasin, observed to me once that Martin Luther King was a good man, and Osho is a wise man.

    Interesting distinction.

    I had said I was saddened by the way the press had dragged Martin Luther King down because of his “affairs”; and those kind of accusations about Osho were water off a duck’s back to me.

    (I am actually slightly vague about the details of that conversation, the lead-up, which took place at the end of the 80s, but recall the punchline very strongly).

  4. shantam prem says:

    Is there someone alive on the earth to judge who is enlightened, who is not?

    Around 3 billion people have taken birth after 1990, there must be few, if not everywhere, but on facebook!

    • Arpana says:

      It’s easy to tell if someone isn’t enlightened, Shantam, especially when the individual concerned deludes himself he is.

    • satchit says:

      “Is there someone alive on the earth to judge who is enlightened, who is not?”

      First you have to believe in the concept of ‘enlightenment’ and ‘not
      enlightenment’ to judge someone as yes or no.

      It’s similar to the concept of heaven and hell.
      If there is no hell, then there is no heaven.

      • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

        “It’s similar to the concept of heaven and hell.
        If there is no hell, then there is no heaven.” (Satchit)

        The concept, Satchit, is similar; the state of Being is not, I suggest (presume).

        And YES, where there is no hell, there is no heaven.

        Although I´d say, it feels ´like heaven´ if you get a taste of leaving the concepts of it all.

        Halleluja!

        Madhu

  5. Lokesh says:

    Osho’s answers to the questions are all spot on. Really, though, do you need someone like Osho to tell you that the Pope is not enlightened? I think it is obvious that the Catholic Church and its cabal of perverted priests and bishops is a joke in the worst of taste.

    As for Martin Luther King, I wonder why his name, along with Hitler, is brought up in connection with the eastern concept of enlightenment, because neither of those men’s lives had anything to do with enlightenment, taking into account the chasm that existed between who they actually were or what they did in life.

    More relevant would have been to ask about, say, U.G. Krishnamurti, The Dalai Lama or Paramahansa Yogananda.

    Osho concludes, “The really enlightened person has no desire to influence the masses.” Does that mean that Osho was not really enlightened, because I think he desired to influence the masses?

    To a certain extent he did in fact succeed on this level and I am quite sure it was intentional. In today’s society I watch certain things happening and think to myself, it was Osho that got that ball rolling.

    Of course, Osho undermines such speculations by adding, “If they are influenced, that is another matter.” You got to give it to the man, he was a smooth operator. As Yogi would say, he is perfectly correct.

    • satchit says:

      Q: Are you enlightened?

      There is no enlightenment, hence the question does not arise.
      The very idea of enlightenment is non-democratic.
      Either everything is enlightened or nothing is enlightened.

      • Arpana says:

        Enlightenment seems to me to be a phenomenon we’ve all heard of, some people have heard of; and we don’t know if Osho is or isn’t, and I’ve only heard of a very small number of people who claim to be, or is said of them they were/are. So how can we know when we’ve only heard of it?

        I don’t actually know if Tasmania exists, but a lot of people have been there, apparently, so there is large amount of evidence to support the notion the place does exist, but I’ve still only heard of the place.

        • Arpana says:

          In the early days, the notion of enlightenment probably affected me like a badge of rank, gave Osho a credibility; whereas now his credibility for me is connected to all these years of connection to him, and the way we have changed my inner landscape for the dramatically better, a work still in progress I must add, unlike the really special people who post here.

          If somebody presented me with incontrovertible evidence Osho isn’t enlightened I just wouldn’t be bothered; and I would now be equally unconcerned if somebody presented me with incontrovertible evidence there is no such quality as enlightenment, as opposed to opining on the subject.

          (A few of our regular posters would do well to learn the difference between opinion and ‘fact’).

          • satchit says:

            “In the early days, the notion of enlightenment probably affected me like a badge of rank, gave Osho a credibility; whereas now his credibility for me is connected to all these years of connection to him, and the way we have changed my inner landscape for the dramatically better, a work still in progress I must add, unlike the really special people who post here.”

            Arpana,
            I guess for you it was the same like with me. There was a time when you did fall in love with the Master and then you did take sannyas. Was it not?

            The Master creates the situation but we create the way by walking.
            So it is always only our decision if we move left or right.

            There is also the story that a wrong Master can help if trust is there.
            For me the direction goes more into choicelessness – or also like zen people say, neti-neti.

            • Arpana says:

              He gave us back the right to screw up and learn from it; and I don’t know your background, but for my generation from the UK, mistakes weren’t allowed.

              My path is one of trial and error, and that looks different now to how it looked when I first understood that.

              Satchit said ”For me the direction goes more into choicelessness – or also like zen people say, neti-neti.”

              Yes.

              • satchit says:

                “My path is one of trial and error, and that looks different now to how it looked when I first understood that.”

                Is not “trial and error” going for success and avoiding failure?

                Feels difficult for me to find success in a world with its floating and changing nature. Old Sisyphus tried it already.

                • Arpana says:

                  Satchit asked on 28 August, 2017 at 8:11 am:

                  “Is not “trial and error” going for success and avoiding failure?”

                  No.

                • anand yogi says:

                  Perfectly correct, Scratchit!
                  Those who, like yourself, who have attempted “trial and error” approach to life and have come in contact with the workings of old Syphilis have come to know that enlightenment is like the clap:
                  You have either got it or you haven`t!

                  Yahoo!
                  Hari Om!

              • Lokesh says:

                Just for the record. The expression Neti Neti has nothing to do with “Zen people”. The concept of neither this nor this has its roots in Hinduism. You might have heard Osho use it in one form or another. Hardly surprising, taking into consideration that he claimed to have reached enlightenment via self-enquiry, Advaita Vedanta, where the Neti Neti approach is often used.

                • satchit says:

                  “Just for the record. The expression Neti Neti has nothing to do with “Zen people”.”

                  Yes, Lokesh. If you believe in books then it is different. In reality it is the same in different words.

                  Buddha’s way is the via negativa which culminates in zen with:
                  There is no buddha, there is no teaching, there is no enlightenment.

                • anand yogi says:

                  Scratchit,
                  I have got it
                  and by your writings, so have you!

                • Arpana says:

                  @anand yogi
                  28 August, 2017 at 1:51 pm

                  When you say “it”, Anand Yogi, are you referring to the clap, or neti neti?

                • satyadeva says:

                  When you say “the clap”, Arpana, you are referring, of course, to ‘the sound of one hand’, are you not – surely?

                • Arpana says:

                  @Satya Deva. 28 August, 2017 at 3:25 pm.

                  Of course, SD. Who could possibly think anand yogi and the “the clap” would have any other connotation?

                • Lokesh says:

                  Satchit, what exactly do you mean by “reality”?

                • satchit says:

                  “Satchit, what exactly do you mean by “reality”?”

                  Reality is the opposite of illusion. Illusion says there is a difference.
                  Reality says there is none.

                • Lokesh says:

                  Satchit, do you know this or is it something you picked up somewhere?

                  I cannot really say what reality is, but surely it is something that goes beyond dualistic thinking, which is what you are doing by defining reality by using an opposite, in this case illusion.

                  According to the sages, reality is not something that can be grasped by the mind because reality simply is. Therefore it requires no opposite to define it.

                  Osho put it more simply when he said, “NOW is the only reality – all else is either memory or imagination.”

                • satchit says:

                  Lokesh, the fire of truth is like creativity. It is spontaneous and cannot come from books.

                  Neti-neti and zen are like brothers because they are both on the No-path. The result of both is emptiness.

                  To think they are different is illusion.

                • Arpana says:

                  @ Lokesh.

                  I am not disappointed by your latest post.

                • Arpana says:

                  @ SD:

                  He’s straightforward.

              • Arpana says:

                @SD:
                What do you make of John de Ruiter? (New to me).

                • frank says:

                  Arps,
                  Here`s vid of the man himself.
                  It`s compelling stuff in a car-crash kind of way.

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0oBIbVyRQQ

                  And here`s a commentary on it by a guy called Tony Sebastian, who used to give his own satsangs.

                  “I used to do small scale satsangs, I found that the more people in the audience empowered me and gave their power over to me (or the absence of me in the advaita business), the more powerful I became in that space. And the more powerful – the more blind to the narcissistic bullshit that starts running the show. It’s a fucking trip, and it’s so easy to fall in love with yourself in a sick way – this vid being a good example. Once this ball is rolling it’s really hard to first see the narcissim and the ‘invincibility’ it grants, and second to drop it. I feel thankful that I caught it pretty soon in my case and checked myself very hard. It has allowed me to really decode the game these people are playing with seekers and lonely people. Now the idea of sitting in front of a crowd acting like I got all the cream feels repulsive. But I learn from having done it, and it’s pretty scary seeing it playing out on this scale.

                  There’s also a matter of hypnosis being used to induce altered states, especially with the people that ‘give everything’ to you, the guru. I’m sure we have seen many gurus encouraging this giving away of the will, it’s sick really. I know this one pretty well too, did it a couple of times and have seen it hundreds of times. I think most spiritual teachers are doing it, most probably aren’t even aware of it. Ironically when I could ‘initiate’ altered states, I got my ass kissed the most. I understood then why spiritual teachers get so popular… people want a break from the norm, and to consume, so I think this spiritual market is perfect distractionism, and not so different to alcohol and drug use really. Ordinary and sobering truths seem to hold no interest to the seekers.”

                • satyadeva says:

                  Notwithstanding that I laughed out loud at the video Frank sent, the whole scenario being perfect fodder for satire, and that Tony Sebastian’s cynicism is no doubt well justified in many cases, my personal experience of John de Ruiter is positive (although I’ve only been to two of his meetings).

                  I rate him as someone who ‘knows the Truth’ and has a genuine capacity to communicate this to others.

                • frank says:

                  I think Tony Sebastian is quite accurate with:
                  “people want a break from the norm, and to consume, so I think this spiritual market is perfect distractionism, and not so different to alcohol and drug use really.”

                  In that scheme of things, SD, you would be like a guy who goes to a couple of raves, does some E and has a good time. Or you like a few pints and bit of spliff of the odd weekend.

                  Whereas the long-term satsang junkies and hardcore blissheads who hammer it 24/7 end up with all sorts of odd problems that can only really begin to be solved by giving up the gear.

                • Arpana says:

                  @Frank.

                  People can get addicted to anything.

                  More than a few sannyas news users are addicted to the site.

                • frank says:

                  Arps,
                  Yeah, but Big P isn`t taking our money, saying he`s Christ, shagging us, getting his ass kissed, getting his willy out at random, playing us off against each other, getting sued by his outraged bloggers etc. etc.

              • Arpana says:

                @ Frank:

                Thanks.

                That commentary’s interesting. I have thought that about power.
                Everyone has some personal power, but others have what I call conferred power, so Thatcher, for example, was only as powerful as she was eventually because everyone gave up their power to her; which peaked before they took it back, but they didn’t give as much to John Major.

            • Lokesh says:

              Satchit says, “The result of both is emptiness.”
              I suspect that is something he read in a book. Could it be the case that he has not a clue what he is talking about? Or is Satchit an example of a hollow bamboo dancing in the winds of eternity? The mystery deepens.

              • satchit says:

                You need not care about me if I am this or that, Lokesh.
                Better get rid of your illusions – time is running!

                • Arpana says:

                  Good shot, Satchit. Well played.

                • Lokesh says:

                  Hurrah! The SN circus is going full tilt. Led, of course, by those hilarious clowns.

                  Satchit says, “You need not care about me.”
                  But I do not care about Satchit in the slightest, and I wonder what I said that could could have created the impression that I care about someone who I have never laid eyes on, do not know if they are a man or woman, and comes across as someone who understands things that they have not even begun to scrape to surface of.

                  Take the following as an example: “Better get rid of your illusions – time is running!”
                  Hold on…let’s take a few notes here. Is not the idea that time is running perhaps one of life’s greatest illusions? Whoever Satchit is, he/she is obviously confused, and that is just for starters.

                  Meanwhile, Arpana thinks Satchit is playing well in some imaginary game of cricket, how very English, but is he a good sport, it’s simply not cricket, old fruit. Or is this an indication of how desperate his crusade has become to bring down the evil unbeliever, slanderer and villain, Lokesh, and restore law and order to the holy land of SN.

                  All part and parcel of what I find to be the most entertaining blog site on the net. Keep up the good work. Being a clown is not always easy, but they sure are funny.

                • Arpana says:

                  Thank you for continuing to not care about what I write, Lokesh.

                • satchit says:

                  “Good shot, Satchit. Well played.”

                  Yeah. Must have been hit. Makes a lot of fuss.

                • Lokesh says:

                  No problem, Arpana. In fact, there is no need to thank me because not caring about what you write comes easy and naturally to me. I enjoy the act of giving in its myriad forms.

                  I am a little concerned about your new friendship with Satchit, because he is an obvious chump. You can find a better comrade in arms than him surely, if he is a him and not a she. Maybe Satchit is a transexual. One never knows.

                  Anyway, take care of yourself and congratulations on your most recently posted painting. I like it.

                • Tan says:

                  Yes, Arps, I like it too!

                • Lokesh says:

                  Satchit’s favorite hand mudra.

              • kusum says:

                Hollow bamboo or Empty boat are almost similar concepts. Hollowness &
                emptiness mean nothingness. And through this ones’s inside nothingness divine flows.

              • satchit says:

                Interesting talk yesterday, hmm, Lokesh? Maybe good to take a look at.

                “Satchit says, “The result of both is emptiness.”
                I suspect that is something he read in a book. Could it be the case that he has not a clue what he is talking about? Or is Satchit an example of a hollow bamboo dancing in the winds of eternity? The mystery deepens.”

                Here things were still okay for you, maybe you were a bit cynical – but okay.

                But then this from me:
                “You need not care about me if I am this or that, Lokesh.”

                Now this was too much for you. This your ego could not tolerate anymore. Somebody saying your opinion is not so important.

                You lost all your coolness and your defence-mechanism took over. And certainly attack is the best defence. Good example how easily the ego can be triggered. Thanks!

                • Lokesh says:

                  Satchit, you are confused and apparently are unaware of it, as made obvious by your cliched comments about ego, defence mechanisms etc. Don’t you get it, man? That stuff went out with orange clothes.

                  Do you really want to appear like a complete wanker by pulling old stunts like getting on someone’s case, and then crying foul by saying “you are just being defensive” when someone does not agree with you? To me, you appear to be completely stupid when talking this kind of dated language.

                • satchit says:

                  I must admit you are a bit funny, Lokesh. Because Big Lokesh decides there is no ego – then there is no ego.
                  This is a good dream.

                  Do you think Osho or Bhagwan has spoken about ego and egolessness because of orange clothes? And now the subject is finished? How stupid can one be? LOL.

                • kusum says:

                  Says it all….

                • satyadeva says:

                  In theory, perhaps it does. But unless you know how to apply that to your life (and actually do it) then it’s just words, isn’t it, Kusum?

                • Kavita says:

                  SD, seems Kusum comes here when the ego rises and remains silent when it sets!

                • swami anand anubodh says:

                  Remember, Kusum,

                  Ramana was happy to live practically naked in a cave.

                  Perhaps, if another ‘enlightened one’ had moved in next to him by carving a cave that was just a little bigger, and who went totally naked, then he himself may have felt a little ‘miffed’.

                • frank says:

                  It`s an incredible and little known fact:
                  Interestingly, Ramana was a keen amateur boxer in his teens. He was once knocked out by a bigger lad for 24 hours. (Not making it up).

                  It`s possible that the first thing he said when he came round was “Where am I?”

                  Followed, of course, by the now-legendary “Who am I?”

                  (Chuddies sponsored by Everlast).

              • satchit says:

                @ Lokesh

                This picture shows more about you than about me.

                Is the weather bad in Ibiza?
                Are you bored?
                How old are you? 13?

                • Lokesh says:

                  Satchit, you have failed to answer almost every question I have asked you and yet you feel you have the right to ask me questions.

                  Go back to your favourite hand mudra.

                • satchit says:

                  “Satchit, you have failed to answer almost every question I have asked you and yet you feel you have the right to ask me questions.”

                  Yes, I know I have been mean to you. At least I can say the Pune 78 thing was not a lie.

                  Did not know that you were such a perfect teacher in hand mudras. Congrats!

      • frank says:

        If everything is the same as nothing then nothing means anything.

        Enlightenment relates to gravity and levity, as well as darkness and light.

        “Lighten up while you still can”
        (The Eagles)

      • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

        A Politician and a Sage, a Sage who is worth His or Her Salt, Satchit, don´t belong in the same category of Life´s incorporations or appearances, roughly said.

        True, sad enough, that wise people have been sometimes murdered by exactly those who leave it to a mob with mob minds and got, sorry to say, enough votes to get their crimes against humanity going.

        Everybody with even a just rudimentary aquaintance with and about ´Human History´ knows that; you too, I guess.

        We both are talking about different levels here today. And maybe it ought to be that way in a virtual communication open (SN/UK) chat-channel, and I know nothing much about you, to say the least.

        There´s nothing much ´democratic´ in a love affair, not to speak about a Great Affair of this kind, as it sometimes is described.

        Sounds romantic, but sometimes it’s not romantic at all. Just see Lokesh´s mentioning U.G.Krishnamurti, for example.

        Reading some of that which is left as information, Innerviews etc. shared by His friends about this Man and Being, I take that sometimes as a remedy when I am feeling bitter or very stuck with hidden and/or open desires.

        A remedy which mostly works! For me.

        Otherwise and however, this ´chocolate parable mentioned by Osho in that here chosen quote renews in an incomparable. beautiful way the Invitation I was and am grateful for.

        To become such an invitation oneself, first for oneself and then may be (or may not be) for fellow human beings is another issue and has never been and will never be connected with ´democratic voting´ or such stuff.

        For such voting you may go into one of these gaming social container businesses with the Tele-PHONE connection or facebook ratings with virtual thumbs-ups or downs to vote for one of these ´heroes´ or ´heroines’ – like in a Peep-Show´.

        That (the latter!) is not what we´re talking about today here in a ‘Sannyas-and-Friends-of-This’ chat, Satchit, I´d say.

        Madhu

  6. satchit says:

    “We both are talking about different levels here today. And maybe it ought to be that way in a virtual communication open (SN/UK) chat-channel, and I know nothing much about you, to say the least.”

    Certainly we talk about different levels because we have different minds, Madhu. Today my mind enjoys playing with words. Osho was not the only one who could play with words. It’s enough if you know yourself – like it is written at the Temple of Apollo in Delphi – then you know that I am just another flower in the Garden.

    • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

      “…my mind enjoys playing with words. Osho was not the only one who could play with words.” ( Satchit, 27 August, 2017 at 9:54 pm)

      Oh yes, Satchit, true.
      Almost everybody, having a tongue and other bodily organic instruments needed for functioning, and also having a brain with all that storage of human culture pieces to be played around with, playing with words too.

      However, I insist ( by experience):
      Rare, very, very rare are those who are inviting an audience, so to say, to enter by listening and Hearing to realms which do not seem to come from the world of ´words´.

      A kind of unifying energy (we can call it Love, in poor language, to name how such very sweetness sometimes feels; or we can call it emptiness too – this unifying realm, where there is spaciousness in abundance and a peace beyond understanding – yet tangible in any living cell).

      Rare, very rare it is, that playing (delivering words), how you call it rightly, is NOT in a fighting modus ´of Be or NOT to BE´ – or in other words: “If You are – I cannot be, and vice versa.”

      (The so-called ´Gods and Goddesses´of the Greek Myths, Satchit, have been utterly ambitious and jealous; guess you know that,
      as far as it is told in stories. they liked to fight, steal, rob, rape etc. etc. – modelling that which was/is happening on the ´storages below´ – the human beings, who were into same-same-same).

      The very Source, where very, very rarely, but occasionally, words are delivered from then in its added mysterious silent midst a unifying Energy, a Love for Life in Peace with one another and any other sentient Being, is, we are trying our best to tap into, are we?

      What we know about that ´trial and error´ thing Arpana mentioned is – at the most – coming then from realising (later): Oh (it happened…by chance…) or No…(I missed…failure again…).

      Nothing wrong about the latter, but good to know that another try is then realising a failure is already a dead thing from the past and the new NOW-Here gives us another chance.

      As long as that goes…to have a chance.

      We do not know about it, I´d say.

      Blue, blue vast Sky today, aquamarine, not sapphire-blue.
      Just now – here, cloudless for the moment.
      Another of these beautiful summer days.

      At other global planet spots, people fight for their very lives, be it for calamaities of Nature, be it for war reasons.

      Being Human, we have a Heart to contain it all. The good and the painful to know in this Heart, and on we go; sometimes, we go like tightrope walkers. Also on the rope of ´words´ we go.

      Sometimes we manage, sometimes we fall.
      That´s all.

      Madhu

  7. swamishanti says:

    I never met this fellow before, but came across this the other day and thought it might be interesting in this context:

    https://o-meditation.com/category/osho/osho-sannyasins/baba-purnanand-bharati/

    • Parmartha says:

      Thanks. Had a look. Never heard of the guy. But glad to see he keeps the name Osho gave him.

      I don’t like it when these Indian followers “imitate” Osho. You know, wear clothes like him, and sit in the same way, etc. and speak like him…and recreate Pune1-type ashrams…

      Give me Frank any day!

    • bodhi heeren says:

      Thanks for the link to the beautiful o-meditation site. That’s a true treasure for lovers of Osho (and Advaita). I really enjoyed some rarities like Osho’s ‘discussion’ with TM-students and even the Maharishi himself. And ofc Parmartha’s remark about preferring ‘witty’ Frank – a poor guy trapped in his own ‘cleverness’ – for an enlightened Indian sannyasin really says all there is to say about that man and where he is spiritually….

      • Parmartha says:

        I liked the link too, though who runs this site? Not so obvious?

        Your argument, Heeren, depends rather on your view that this guy featured by Swamishanti is “enlightened”. Any which way, he imitates Osho dreadfully, and just a pity he does not imitate him in the ‘jokes’ department.

        You clearly take Frank too seriously, and I reckon this would be something you would be invited to look at in a Humaniversity group; if you have not already been confronted in such circumstances, try one of their groups!

        • swamishanti says:

          Indian spiritual types have a tendency to wear the same hairstyle, and follow the same clothing styles as the Master. Whether top-knot, bald and with or without beards.

          It is a little like those Russian dolls that go on opening and opening.

          Buddhists shave their heads like Buddha.
          Hindus wear their signature marks on their foreheads.
          Others wear dreadlocks.

          In this way they like to follow the ‘murti’ or the image of the Master.
          Osho followers can wear white robes but male baldness may or may not be an intentional ‘style’.

          By the way, I have heard that a little mixture of coconut oil and Jamaican castor oil can help with hair loss for male sannyasins who want to try to retain their hair.

  8. shantam prem says:

    Enlightenment is like G spot:
    One in billion may have it. One in million claim they have also found it.
    If you are interested to establish your name in Spiritual industry, then you must claim about E spot, real or bluff, who cares?!

  9. shantam prem says:

    This was in Time Magazine.

    • Lokesh says:

      Not exactly enlightening, Shantam. What else is new? Same old, same old.

      • shantam prem says:

        Lokesh, then you can create a new cartoon: E spot is like G spot.
        I don´t think you have read this analogy before.

        • Lokesh says:

          2Shantam, I find the cartoon a bit trite and myopic.

          What about the Sikh wallah guru that just got sent down for 20 years? I checked some of his vids. Creepy. 50 million followers. Completely bonkers.

          • shantam prem says:

            You can see my facebook wall. For last few days, every post is dedicated to creepy Indian Spiritual business.
            One example:
            “China may produce soon Customised Sex Dolls from finest Vegan Plastic for Indian Spiritual Industry.”

            P.S:
            This hairy asshole was excommunicated by the Sikhs.

            • Lokesh says:

              Hi Shantam, I was thinking about you yesterday evening. The reason for this was that I read something and thought Shantam has to read this, because without saying as much it showed how utterly stupid it can look to harp on about how Indians have an inbuilt understanding about all matters spiritual that Westerners totally lack. If interested just let me know and I will point out the direction to find this absolute gem of understanding.

              • shantam prem says:

                Please…Any gem of understanding is worthy of gratitude.

                • Lokesh says:

                  ‘I am That’, by Sri Nisargadatta.Page 167 chapter 38:
                  The master deals with a questioner obviously obsessed with the great divide between East and West. He does not exactly address it in so many words, but rather by saying nothing about it. That is what I love about the beedie wallah. He never wavers from the fact that inner change is the real goal and if one achieves it all else will follow.

              • It happens hundreds of times, i bow down silently before Westerns. I know they have no living masters. They walk on their own.

              • “Haven’t you heard of John de Ruiter (Canada), Shantam?”

                Yes Satyadeva, I have heard about John during mid-nineties, when he came to Pune. His gatherings were full and it made commune management think about their folks.

                One of my Indian friends has also spent few months with him in Edmonton, and as per his information, one Indian lady, GurdeepJi, too got the courage to be awakened.

                Personally, I know him as much I know Donald Trump!

    • swami anand anubodh says:

      I think the last line of this cartoon is more accurately:
      Science says, “I don’t know” vs. religion says, “I do know”.

  10. frank says:

    Actually, religion has got more in common with clowning and comedy.

    It all happens on stage.
    Silly haircuts. Bald bits, odd beards etc…
    (Mostly blokes) in cross-dressing type outfits.
    Daft hats.
    Far-fetched stories.
    Giving themselves silly made-up names and titles.
    Spouting incomprehensible rubbish.
    People getting caught with their trousers down.
    Inventing catchphrases…

    Know thyself
    Knowing me, knowing you etc….

    • kusum says:

      Most people entertain, celebrate themselves in the name of religions. Any celebrations in the name of so-called God(s) & religions bring Zest & Hope in the life.

  11. anand yogi says:

    Perfectly correct, Kusum!
    Enlightentainment is the only hope for humanity!
    Look at Guru Ram Singh!
    I am also disciple and have changed name to Anand Insan Yogi and may chop testicles off soon, when I reach sufficient levels of devotion!!

    Riding round on motorbike, making B movies doing rank Demis Roussos-on-steroids impersonation and exercising ancient Hindu right to rape, as supported by Zorba the Buddha Modi`s own ministers, and helping disciples transcend by chopping bollocks off, what is problem?

    If people are enjoying and celebrating who is government to stop the will of God?

    Even Donald Trump, leader of American White Robe Brotherhood, is also grabbing pussy on prime time TV and people are voting for. Why should India be held back from modernity?

    It is up to leaders, especially religious, to provide endless entertainment for people who wish to celebrate life: rape, murder, riots, paedophilia, online beheading, beatings, poisonings, castrations, honour killings, acid attacks, holy underpants and suicide vests and all other spiritual activities to bring Hope and Zest into mine and millions of others’ hopeless lives!

    Yahoo!
    Hari Om!

    • kusum says:

      Anand Yogi, I only mentioned celebrations in reference to Xmas celebrations or Hindu religion celebrations like Diwali, Ganesha, Navaratri singing & dancing festival etc. As most people always seem to look forward to these & seem to feel nourished & joyful.

  12. Lokesh says:

    Donald Trump, leader of American White Robe Brotherhood.

    Great stuff!

  13. sw. veet (francesco) says:

    (Non-democratic) God vs. (Absolutely individual and private experience of) Religion.

    Seen from the outside, nothing seems more democratic than the phenomenon that drives people to live and sometimes die for a God, fighting others ready to die for a different God.

    Seen from the inside…it is the reflection of what is happening in politics, a brainwash through media that blandish the sense of democratic responsibility of people in making the right choice between two options decided from above: Hilary or Donald, God or Devil.

    Democracy has many paradoxes like that. Is it democratic that a genuinely religious parent influences the child’s private space with the idea of a non-democratic god?

    In other words, is there a truly neutral and democratic private space from where to look at all the possibilities between an Atheist and a Taliban?

    Ciao,

    VF