Tooth Truth: Some reflections on Devageet’s Book

Swami Prem Navajat reflects, after a first reading of Devageet’s book, ‘Osho: the first Buddha in the Dental Chair’.  Swami Devageet worked as Osho’s personal dentist for many years.

Two thirds fascinating, one third disappointing. The disappointing part is the strange, almost perhaps ideological inability, to my perception, for Devageet to be truly authentic in the first thirty-six pages. Those pages seemed to be dull enough to start skipping, and doing a kind of fake fast-reading. They would be of some use to someone completely unfamiliar with ‘our’ history: but then the rest of the book is unsuitable and uninteresting to such a person who is not in love and fascination with this Master and his Experiment.

The other two-thirds are, of course, absolutely fascinating for a disciple-ish kind of chap like me. (Who am I to stay whether I’m a disciple, student  gatherer, or a hoodlum?!)

A few points spring forth, which have been in germination in my mind in some cases for decades. It seems to me that poor Osho was at the same time served exceedingly well and exceedingly poorly by the westerners around him, in his latter years.

On one side: there was a good “yes”. On the other: wasn’t he treated to an extent like a combination of a weird CEO, a fat baby, and a histrionic menopausal woman by the supposed intimates? Sometimes I even fancy I can actually see it on video in some of the documentaries.

(Some of what I am struggling to say now seems to me to be very apparent in Veena’s book too, for example).

It may be that a lot of what went on between us and O was an interplay,  rather than just soaking up by us. Meaning that with different people surrounding him, the outcomes may have had been different. Meaning that we affected his ‘work’.

Vivek, Sheela, Shiva, Laxmi and others including in the tiniest part myself and you,  have shaped the commune and the ‘work’. Or rather the Experiment, as Osho often used to refer to it. Cleaning, for example, went on to such an extent it must have been really quite disturbing, and at the same time daily in-fighting among the “chosen few” is revealed in every book that comes out. My feeling – or is it judgement? – is that he was daily mollycoddled in such a way it was actually disrespectful. The fact that he was always unfailingly positive and kind is no indication that that was the best way!

The description of O working on Devageet’s interiority is fascinating and touching. I imagine that Gurdjieff’s pupils and disciples would elicit from this a great feeling of familiarity!  Same and more went on around Gurdjieff and Meher Baba, and others as far as can be gathered.

The reason why I include us, i.e. you and me and thousands, is because you can think of it in term of concentric circles. O was surrounded (and one is almost tempted to say “suffocatingly surrounded”) by the inner of the Inner Circle; and they in turn were surrounded by the Inner Circle; and they by the ashramites; and they by further widening circles of us. And always the effect and feedback at the points of contact. So in some tiny way we were affecting and co-creating Sheela, or her madness; and the neuroticism of Vivek and Shiva, and so on.

It may also be considered that O played up to us similarly as he played up to Devageet in the dental laboratory in the dentist’s chair. And so he may have had said different things had we laughed differently. And possibly the tensions between us and the outside world may had ended up differently too.

Just by the way, but prompted by reading this book, I think it is still entirely possible that O was being poisoned by Sheela at the time of the Ranch. When Devageet describes O’s teeth hurting for no apparent reason at one point in the first part of the book: that could be the telling indication. (And he does mention that the teeth were then in comparatively good shape). Just such a symptom could be expected in case of poisoning. And it would appear to be in character for Sheela. She may even had thought that she was somehow helping the work!  She was neurotic and maddened enough – in hindsight.

Was then O poisoned once, twice or three times??

There is even the strange mention in O’s wider opus, of how he had engineered his own poisoning seven hundred years ago, in a previous incarnation, in order to further his work in the twentieth century!

The mystery upon mystery continues, and truly – it is an overwhelmingly sweet mystery, this still continuing Experiment of one wonderful Master; sweet though, but perhaps not on the teeth.

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98 Responses to Tooth Truth: Some reflections on Devageet’s Book

  1. Arpana says:

    “It may be that a lot of what went on between us and O was an interplay, rather than just soaking up by us. Meaning that with different people surrounding him, the outcomes may have been different. Meaning that we affected his ‘work’.”

    There is a hexagram from the I Ching which means “taming power of the small”. Tends to make me think how kids, with decent parents at least, call the shots, as parents have to go along with them to an enormous extent.

    Take that further, a teacher can’t go any faster than the ‘mean’ (I mean statistical mean); so yeah, I am sure we affected his work.

  2. Arpana says:

    Swami Prem Navajat,

    Nobody takes Sannyas because they’re enlightened you know; although plainly a lot of our number think they are enlightened because they take sannyas; but once you acknowledge the former, all the shenanigans make a lot more sense.

    A pal of mine said Sannyas is a forum for people to use to work their ego problems out, and then another pal said, some people have a lot more baggage than others.

    • satchit says:

      The guy has vivid imagination, thinking somebody is poisoned because of the teeth hurting. The teeth can still be okay but the pain can come from neuropathic reasons.

      • Arpana says:

        I used to have a friend who was involved with the Hare Krishnas, and they never, he said, talk to each other as we do, but he did say they were told to always avoid speculation; which stayed with me.

  3. Kavita says:

    SPN, frankly, I don’t qualify to write anything on Devageet’s book as I have not read it, but reading your synopsis seems you are a well-baked cookie in O’s oven!

  4. Tan says:

    S.P.N. said:
    “…for Devageet to be truly authentic in the first thirty-six pages. Those pages seemed to be dull enough to start skipping…they would be of some use to someone completely unfamiliar with “our” history.”
    Don’t agree with S.P.N.
    “Our history”? What do you mean? As far as I know, Sannyas world is made of individuals’ histories.

    And there is more:
    “…wasn’t he treated to an extent like a combination of a weird CEO, a fat baby, and a histrionic menopausal woman?”
    Histrionic menopausal woman? Are you relating to your wife or mother?
    Piss off, Swami!

    I love Devageet’s book because is very sincere and it is made mainly by facts. Particularly, what I really enjoyed reading in the book was when Devageet describes the specialist’s appointment (page 211).

    Devageet described the specialist dental assistant “as a buxom young blonde, cheerful, friendly and innocently curious.”
    In page 222: “The specialist’s dental nurse took Osho’s hand and murmured compassionately, “Oh my, oh my. Is it so, so painful? Oh, my poor dear…” She was holding Osho’s left hand, her eyes soft and motherly.”

    Osho always had his way with beautiful women, mainly buxom. :) And I am really curious for what happened afterwards. Devageet said nothing!
    Anybody know?

    Cheers!

  5. kusum says:

    Maybe Osho(Bhagwan) wanted his teeth to be preserved like Buddha’s teeth. During one of my visits to Thailand there was festival & big crowd of people in a park worshipping something & I inquired what was happening & I was told that Buddha’s tooth was brought from Delhi museum for a while for Buddhist people to worship. & of course it was wonderful.

    • kusum says:

      Nitrous oxide, anaesthesia, pain killers etc. can give side-effects, addiction, hallucinations etc., whether one is enlightened or not. That is scientific fact.

    • satyadeva says:

      What was “wonderful” about a load of people “worshipping” a tooth, please, Kusum?

      • kusum says:

        Meditative atmosphere & vibes of FAITH.

        • satyadeva says:

          Is “meditative” the right word, Kusum?

          And “FAITH” in what, exactly?

          • kusum says:

            Have FAITH, Satyadeva. You can figure it out.

            • satyadeva says:

              Concerning religious faith, there’s often more than a fine line between naive innocence and sheer stupidity. A crowd gathered to “worship” a 2500 year-old tooth is a demonstration of complete and utter foolishness, Kusum! Sentimental claptrap dreamed up by scholars and priests, no doubt.

              I wonder what Buddha himself might have said about it…Being the practical teacher he was, a man (not a ‘god’, by the way) who emphasised being “a Light unto oneself”, rather than coming across as some sort of ‘Saviour’, perhaps he would have made it clear how stupidly misguided they were – and you are to cite this as an instance of great “faith”.

              • Arpana says:

                Well, don’t hold back, SD.

              • kusum says:

                Maybe it is their way of showing respect to the man (Buddha) whose teaching guides them through life. Why Hindus go to pilgrimage? Why Christians flock to Pope and Bethlehem? Why people visit graveyards? Religions are still needed by most people. Faith or blind faith …it works for most humans. Individuals have choice.

                • frank says:

                  I think you are probably right, Kusum.
                  But don`t forget that intention is the driver of transcendence.
                  By unfolding, we exist.
                  The complexity of the present time seems to demand a maturing of our brains if we are going to survive.
                  The goal is to plant the seeds of rejuvenation rather than illusion. Balance requires exploration. By unveiling, we live.

                  Without presence, one cannot grow. Yes, it is possible to exterminate the things that can shatter us, but not without inseparability on our side. Materialism is the antithesis of energy.
                  We must learn how to lead quantum lives in the face of yearning. Imagine a flowering of what could be. It is in redefining that we are awakened.
                  You may be ruled by turbulence without realizing it. Do not let it obliterate the growth of your mission.
                  We are being called to explore the quantum soup itself as an interface between potential and intuition. It is a sign of things to come. Shiva will amplify our connection to infinite curiosity.

                  We can no longer afford to live with illusion. Only an entity of the dreamtime may release this spark of science. You must take a stand against ego.The goal of supercharged electrons is to plant the seeds of knowledge rather than bondage.
                  Yearning is born in the gap where wisdom has been excluded.
                  Intention requires exploration. To traverse the vision quest is to become one with it. Consciousness consists of morphogenetic fields of quantum energy. “Quantum” means a flowering of the spiritual.

                  Have you found your path? The stratosphere is calling to you via psionic wave oscillations. Can you hear it? If you have never experienced this wellspring at the speed of light, it can be difficult to live.
                  The grid is beaming with morphic resonance. We exist as morphogenetic fields. Empathy is the healing of wisdom, and of us.
                  Without coherence, one cannot live.

                  We must learn how to lead unlimited lives in the face of bondage. It is in unfolding that we are recreated. The totality is approaching a tipping point.
                  The quantum shift of serenity is now happening worldwide. We must unify ourselves and change others. It is a sign of things to come.

                • Kavita says:

                  Frank, your post 10 August, 2017 at 10:41 pm – just felt like some unknowable entity used your fingers!

                • satyadeva says:

                  “Maybe it is their way of showing respect to the man (Buddha) whose teaching guides them through life.”
                  Not much evidence of them following his guidance there, Kusum!

                  “Faith or blind faith…it works for most humans.”
                  The blind leading the blind…Just spiritual sleeping pills, doled out by the religions to keep their flocks from despair.

                  What’s so “wonderful” about any of that?

                • kusum says:

                  Satyadeva, sometimes some good words can also keep some from despair, & what is wrong with being a do-gooder?

                  Most Buddhist people meditate regularly as well. And I feel healed & wonderful in all religious ceremonies & all religious places, without any reason.

  6. bodhi heeren says:

    Devageet’s interesting and excellent book could certainly deserve a more intelligent review than this one. Which – like all reviews ofc – says more about the reviewer than the item under scrutiny.

    What I personally like about the book is that it’s actually about Osho, NOT about the author and his/her sexual adventures. Just as Veena’s books, they tell the open-minded reader something about the life and workings of an enlightened mystic. Who else would insist on having teeth extracted when it probably could have been avoided and who else would start talking while the dentist was drilling?

    I also like it because it deflates Parmatha’s oft repeated but unfounded claim that Osho was a nitrous oxide addict. And that it even caused his death (thereby handily relieving US authorities from all responsibility!). A rumour without any factual evidence that ofc nonetheless has become an established ‘fact’, not only on SN but around the net. And even in books like ‘The Three Dangerous Magi’. (Yes, Osho USED N3O in large doses in connection with dental sessions, which has been openly stated in the books from the sessions in the dental room).

    Besides that, I also like that Devageet’s book is well written in a professional way – something that’s not always the case with books by disciples, unfortunately. Actually, for me, this and Veena’s ‘Glimpses Of My Master’ would top the list of books I have read about Osho. At least until I get my hands on Arun’s ‘In Wonder With Osho’ :-) .

    • Arpana says:

      You’re a perfectionist, Heeren, a state which is represented in various forms by various individuals who post here.

    • Lokesh says:

      I have reported it before on SN, but just for the record…

      Osho became, let’s say, over-enthusiastic about using laughing gas for some years. My old friend Rupesh, RIP, had the job in Oregon of delivering gas canisters to Osho’s house. Being Mexican, Rupesh had a predisposition to being lazy, except when playing his congas. When his phone rang and it was time for another gas delivery, Rupesh, quite naturally, complained about it, because, in his own words, “Those fucking gas bottles were heavy, man.”

      There is no doubt in my mind that Osho enjoyed using nitrous. I do not have a problem with that. What puzzles me is why Osho got so into what is not that interesting a high. From my own experience, all I can say is that the stuff left me with a splitting headache if I took more than a dozen hits.

      Osho’s public stance on drug use was negative. I only ever once heard him condone someone’s drug use, hashish in this particular instance. It comes across as hypocritical to tell people not to use drugs and then nip round the corner and neck a handful of mandrax and a few hits of laughing gas for good measure. I am sure Osho had a good laugh about it.

      On one level, it was Osho’s business what he did in his spare time, but it becomes his disciples business when a master preaches one thing and does another out of view of the public eye. Osho claimed that he was the ultimate nobody, which brings into question who exactly it was that was getting high.

      Another of those mysteries to be lived and not a problem to be solved, I suppose. It is all water long gone under the bridge now.

      • shantam prem says:

        My impression is doctors introduced him to the world of high.

        Dentist is busy selling his colour therapy, GP is reaping the dividend.

      • satchit says:

        Lokesh, did you not say you have never been on the Ranch?

        Nice, your Rupesh-story, but it is just hearsay. In court it has no value at all. Maybe Mexicans also exaggerate a bit, who knows?

        Fact is: we don’t know nothing about the whys, we don’t know the truth, we don’t know about the role that Bhagwan played, we don’t know about the role that Sheela played, or others.

        And certainly one can substitute this ignorance with some kind of belief. Feels always better than to admit that we don’t know.

        • Arpana says:

          Well said, Satchit.

        • Lokesh says:

          Satchit, Rupesh was an old friend of mine. He died young. While alive he lived an amazing life and was witness to many remarkable scenes. He loved Osho and Osho loved Rupesh.
          What he told me was not hearsay but rather the truth. Rupesh had no ,need to fabricate stories about delivering bottles of laughing gas to Osho’s house. When he told me this it was simply matter of fact and we both laughed about it. In terms of juicey stories that Rupesh had to tell, Osho’s fondness for laughing gas hardly raised an eyebrow.
          As for the role Osho played and the roles that his underlings, like Sheela played, I could really not care less. Such topics strike me as played out and uninteresting.

        • shantam prem says:

          Lokesh can reconstruct the story through circumstantial evidence better than those who are blinded by fake devotion.

          Old saying is intelligent enemy is better than stupid friends.

        • Lokesh says:

          Satchit, the Tooth Fairy came to me in a vision and told me that if Arpana agrees with your response to one of my comments it’s a sure sign that you are well off the mark.

          • Arpana says:

            More patriarchal rationalisation, Lokesh.

          • Arpana says:

            You know, Lokesh, that’s a much spiffier retort than I expected from you.

            Your occasional crisp brevity can be rather Jolly on occasions. Keep up the good work, old bean.

            • Arpana says:

              Lokesh,

              Here’s a fine example of the use of the word “spiffy” that you might find helpful in your future attempts at brevity, crispness and relevance.

              • Kavita says:

                Btw, Arps, that cartoon you posted is unreadable! I am sure it would be interesting if one could read it!

                MOD:
                ENLARGE IT, Kavita?

                Kavita:
                Thank you, MOD.

          • satchit says:

            Lokesh, time to wake up!
            There is no Tooth Fairy in life.

            Your ideas about the laughing gas are just speculations, coloured by your own biography.

            Fact is: You don’t know why and what has happened. We don’t know why and what has happened.

            • Lokesh says:

              Satchit says, “We don’t know why and what has happened.”

              Why the need to speak for others? Obviously uninformed, Satchit makes the mistake of believing his perception must be the same for everyone else, which simply is not how it is.

              Time to wake up? Sounds like someone talking in their sleep.

              • satchit says:

                No, Lokesh,

                It’s not a personal perception. It’s truth by the nature of things.

                I give you an example:
                A friend of yours may know that I buy every day 3 packets of cigarettes and he tells you.

                So you can conclude that I am a great smoker. But in reality you do not know anything. I may do this or that with the cigarettes, have this or that motivation. And nobody can know – that’s the reason for the “we”.

                The same is the case with the 4 eyes talks of Osho-Sheela. Nobody can know because nobody else was present. You can either believe him or her. And one of them even pretends to be a great liar.

                • Lokesh says:

                  Satchit, the subject of what went on between Osho and Sheela all those years ago has been discussed endlessly and approached from countless angles. I find such discussions bear no relevance to my life today.

                  I am curious, Satchit. Did you ever meet Osho personally? I would appreciate a simple answer to this. I suspect you have never actually met Osho but, of course, might be mistaken because I do not know you and your comments on SN give little away about your past. Thanks.

            • Arpana says:

              Lokesh is feeling really threatened by you, Satchit.

              That sneering dismissal so early means he’s frightened you are going to make him look a fool; and he’s desperate to shut you down asap.

              • satchit says:

                “I am curious, Satchit. Did you ever meet Osho personally? I would appreciate a simple answer to this.”

                Do you feel superior to somebody who has not met him at all?

                Took sannyas ’78 in Pune.

                Is it true or is it a lie? Sorry that it is not a simple answer but I guess you can take it. Cheers!

                • Lokesh says:

                  Ho hum. Your answer does not surprise me, Satchit.
                  You say, “Took sannyas ’78 in Pune. Is it true or is it a lie?”
                  Let’s just say I find it hard to believe. You will be wasting your time if you ask me any further questions.

                • satchit says:

                  “Ho hum. Your answer does not surprise me, Satchit.
                  You say, “Took sannyas ’78 in Pune. Is it true or is it a lie?”
                  Let’s just say I find it hard to believe. You will be wasting your time if you ask me any further questions.”

                  I can understand that you become angry, Lokesh. It is natural that one becomes angry if one does not get what one wants.

                  He could have said simply, “Yes, I have met him personally”, but instead he asks stupid questions.

  7. Parmartha says:

    Devageet’s book was welcome in 2013. As were his articles in Viha Connection after he left the Inner Circle, which I think was around 1999.

    Before that, myself and a few others often tried to get some more public disclosure/discussion re Osho and nitrous oxide, but actually until Devageet’s articles in Viha and after he left the Inner Circle, Osho’s use of it was often totally denied!

    Just for clarity, I have never said that Osho was a nitrous oxide addict. My point has always been based on Devageet’s work and a few more articles from those who were in the dental team, that Osho “over time” took quite a lot of it.

    Also, I have never put forward an ‘either/or’ hypothesis about the cause of Osho’s death. He died quite young, and I think there were multiple causes for this. But it would be silly to exclude nitrous oxide use over some years – as being a candidate for consideration – for ONE of what were likely to be many factors.

  8. Parmartha says:

    Prem Navajat, thanks.

    Osho’s interaction with his close circle, and the possibility that if others had been there some different scenarios may have developed, is an interesting idea.

    But the main problem with this thinking is that those people were Osho’s choice. Also they could be changed if he so chose, at any moment. After all, it was ‘his’ movement.

    • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

      You say, Parmartha: “After all, it was ‘his’ movement.”

      I´d say:
      There was/is a movement coming into existence/happening, attracting people from all over the world like moths to the fire and light.

      A Mystery Man in the midst of that happening.

      Re The ´Tooth/ Teeth’ Issue…
      Well, most of us (like me) became acquainted, though in a (little) deeper sense only, when the Master, to be recognisable in a human form, apparently disappeared.

      Either we had got meanwhile His essential message – or not.

      To ponder about what would have happened if this and that…; these ´if´-´when´ questions are obsolete for me and may be at least the mathematical machine-running of a huge computer business of a virtual chess board ( where we – humans – may not be needed any more like in the game ´GO´, btw…).

      “Teeth”:
      Quite a while ago, I remember my shivering when I came to know that some Shamans in some very remote corners, who felt that calling to be in that role in their community, even now extract all their teeth in order to be better (undistracted (?)) available to better connect their consciousness with other-wordly frames of consciousness for healing purposes. (Ancient stuff – not to be played around with like kids play – I guess).

      Anyway, in a way it follows a ‘knowing’, I feel, that matter is consciousness (revealing information) and consciousness is matter – vice versa.

      To label such information as ‘Akasha’ and to know about or even claim to ´regulate´ Akashic stuff is just one way to name it, I presume.

      And to indulge in the impression one could stop a ´wheel´ of destiny – or another way said, getting in control or to manipulate a ´wheel´ (of happenings) hindsight or beforehand could be an outrageous courageous (if not megalomaniacal?) delusion.

      To me, to bow down to the ´Unknowable´ as some of the ancient shaman traditions still know to do, asking for allowance and leaving it to the universal forces to ´answer´ (or not), feels right instinctively.

      Saying that, I also feel close to that, how I – according to my capacity – got glimpses on what Osho , The Mystic, and the invisible heritage of a Mystery School has been/is passing over; and I have more than enough to deal with my forgetfulness of this essential stuff (no-stuff).

      Wrote some more to this all with the pencil as it is a big quest in a small container, so to say….

      Madhu

      P.S:
      Just for Kusum:
      Would be nice to read your response to Satyadeva´s question.
      As far as I am concerned, I shrieked reading you and said to myself: hopefully ALL kinds of cannibalism – also that which is not that easy to recognize (as in holy stories worldwide) will be surpassed soon/by now. And Thailand is not at all the only market place for such.

      • Tan says:

        Madhu, you say:
        “Shamans in some very remote corners…extract all their teeth….”

        Well, Madhu, not long ago in the beautiful Dolomites in Italy was a custom to take all the teeth out of the children, around 14 years old. Just for practical reasons. Very remote place, very difficult to find a dentist and toothache is hell, so just take them out, shove a denture because it’s easier and painless to adjust a denture along life. No big deal. And after all teeth out the kids had a gift and some ice cream. Wow!!!

        Now, I wish very good luck to Devageet and his work, there are a lot there. It is a beginning!

        Cheers!

        • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

          What the hell, Tan, do you want to pass over with that Dolomite story in response to my response? And if it is not too much effort to clear up for me, please do so.

          And what you mean by: “Now, I wish very good luck to Devageet and his work, there are a lot there. It is a beginning!”

          As I simply don´t get what you want to confer wherein your “cheers!” after all that are grounded?

          Madhu

          MOD:
          Madhu, PLEASE CLARIFY LAST SENTENCE.

          • Tan says:

            Madhu,

            ???? The reason for my Dolomite story is the same reason for your Shaman story!

            ???? I just wished good luck for Devageet’s work, just that! And for various reasons!

            Cheers!

            • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

              No, Tan,
              We both, as women and human beings with our life experiences, don´t come here (re the tooth- truth story) for the same reason, as you say.

              Your sharing of some Dolomites ´custom’ to extract all teeth of the youngsters – for practical reasons – as you say, did also shock me immensely although not at all similar to what I´ve read about some Shamans.

              (It does overload this chat though, talking about my own experiences re teeth and skull and bone pain, and around and beyond some sannyas phases times).

              One of my nightmare ´biggies’ from which I woke up in some Ranch Tent, ages ago, has been, btw, that all my (dream-) teeth had had been falling out completely – and I had more than a glimpse of what that means on a psychological level…

              On a personal level, it turned out a very clear forecast of what would happen an this place for me personally very soon after.

              Re Devageet: I wish him well. Don´t know if it was him (in late Pune I) who declared me a group process escapist, when I had to go to the Commune Dentist (re teeth inflammation and pain) during quite a long group process.

              Came to know him more personally when he started his work in Munich, which developed into his ´Oshodontic´ altogether. And came to know him at that time personally when I asked for a session in Munich to shed some light on my trauma issues. Remember him during that hour, writing into his notebook with a very elegant, big, beautiful fountain pen, rarely – if ever – looking at me.

              When I left his flat in Munich after the meeting, former Rajen´s scream (1984) came thoroughly into my mind and psyche: “And you are an IDIOT booking this session!”

              Quite a post-hypnotic retraumatising double-binding stuff. With longtime effects…
              ´Teeth-Truth´? Whose teeth? Whose Truth? And who is it who is talking?

              We ´re all serving each other, I guess – in many, many ways. And it feels very very nice if something is deliberately and consciously given and taken (and no abuse/ misuse is part of the game).

              We are all here on our way to THIS, are we?

              As I read these days what´s on Devageet´s UK website nowadays, Tan, I could follow you with your good wishes for good work, although I may not be as chilled by it as you seem to be.

              “I would not be here, if I wouldn´t care”, you said, quite a while ago.
              And I responded:
              YES, Tan, true. Me too.
              And I meet you in such a space….

              Madhu

  9. Arpana says:

    Lokesh,

    I have lost count of how many times you use the phrase “I couldn’t care less” or “I’m not interested” in something to do with Osho.

    And yet one way or another, nobody has more say about these matters than you.

    You see, Lokesh, I am not interested in Hinduism, so I don’t haunt Hindu chat boards like a ghost, constantly telling them I am above them and not interested, while name-dropping Hindus I have known in the past at every opportunity, or bragging about my exploits years ago among the Hindus.

    • shantam prem says:

      If Sannyas had more Lokesh kind it would have shined through beyond the pages of the books and golden ruins which are almost impossible to restore again.

  10. shantam prem says:

    Lokesh is blunt, but not coward.
    He has not sold his soul to the whims of official versions.

    • Arpana says:

      Lokesh, the Tooth Fairy came to me in a vision and told me that if Shantam agrees with your response to one of my comments it’s a sure sign that you are well off the mark.

      • Lokesh says:

        Arpana, if you are so hard up that you need to borrow my lines it’s maybe time to do a double think instead of a methink.

  11. swami anand anubodh says:

    I was intrigued to read Swami Prem Navajat’s confidence in believing that Osho’s tooth pain was an indication that he was being poisoned:

    “Just such a symptom could be expected in case of poisoning.”

    OK, Swami, if you have such a good knowledge of toxicology, then tell us: What type of poison was being used? You must know, else how could you make such a serious allegation?

    I have googled “poisoning and tooth pain”, and the only connection between the two I could find was: sepsis (blood poisoning) caused by dental infection. Which you, yourself, have ruled out by mentioning that Osho’s teeth were in good condition.

    It’s a known pastime for sannyasins to take easy pot shots at Sheela, especially with events separated by so much time and distance. So I assume that is why Prem Navajat feels it is now safe to ‘up the ante’ on her.

    • Navajat says:

      Deep tooth and bone pain can be one of the indications of ‘poisoning’, many substances can cause it, and there is the complication of subjects responding individually. Cadmium, lead, arsenic, mercury and thallium could be said to be reasonably well known for causing this, amongst others.

      • swami anand anubodh says:

        Prem Navajat.

        I checked the list of toxins you posted against Wikipedia, and not one of them has a reference to ‘tooth pain’ as a symptom of poisoning:

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenic_poisoning#Signs_and_symptoms
        etc.

        Of course, there is always the chance that it may have been missed for one of them. But all of them? Especially when you claim that they are “well known for causing this”.

        My conclusion is that they probably are well known, but only in whatever world you live in.

        • anand yogi says:

          Perfectly correct, Navajat!

          Many drugs given by non-ayurvedic doctors create problems. I was taking the Viagra and was getting severe bone pain also!

          Yes, Osho engineered his death in Tibet 700 years ago and he also engineered Sheela in order to give taste of fascism and show us that we are all Sheela!

          Still, the unconscious baboons of Sannyas News deny it and make absurd assertions that a famous man, surrounded 24/7 for years by medical people, is taking a lot of drugs!
          See the ways of the mind!

          It was all a device to weed out the true disciples!
          And it has worked!
          The truly mindless are the ones still left!
          We have Satchit, Shantam, Madhu, a few alcoholics, a few hardcore Hindus, an Osho tribute act/impressionist down in Acapulco – and Narendra Modi has declared world yoga day!

          Osho`s dream is fulfilled!

          Yahoo!
          Hari Om!

          P.S:
          Toothache is very uncommon in humans and its occurrence clearly shows proof of poisoning!

        • kusum says:

          Sometimes wrong toothpaste or wrong mouthwash also can cause toothaches.

  12. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    @ Frank (10 August, 2017 at 10:41 pm)

    Can´t figure out, Frank, if you underwent a special Dentistry (?) these days, or even booked a meeting with Rupert Sheldrake (updated/UK) or even a seminar with Stephen Wolinsky (US/ EU) ?
    Otherwise, I´d like to know whom you quoted in your response to Kusum, if you don´t mind, please.

    Otherwise: ´Change of brains´ as mentioned in this longer statement, is anyway happening, since we, as a human species, came into appearance on the planet.

    The freshest ´leap´, if one can say so, seems to be that a more than critical amount of humans meanwhile the very last decades is giving up and giving in their brain resources to be administered by technical or bio-technical devices and modules. To speak of more ´empathy´ for other human beings while letting that happen is in my eyes (and in my experience) a fatal error.

    Can´t help it; if someone starts to speak of a ´strong mission´ or in a nebuluous way of ´intentions´, my alarm clock starts ringing.

    I´m more with Stephan Hawking’s warnings about these matters about informal trading issues of AI and ist products.

    Madhu

    P.S:
    It seems to have nothing to do with the ´Teeth-Truth´ Issue, what I´m writing this morning ( as a request addressed to ´Frank´).

    But we are living in a material-technical and especially bio-technical world, its expansion run mostly by fear and greed and a more and more totally covered (unconscious) urge of survival issues.

    There Kusum´s mentioning of ´faith´ comes in and also the need to ´re-a-spect’ ancient wisdom and its holders.

    The latter may have nothing to do with ´faith´, I suggest….

    • frank says:

      Yes, Madhu ,you are absolutely right.

      Since reading Devageet’s book I have been anaesthetised by Osho`s vision and my mental problems have been transformed into dental problems as I have entered into a transomatic dream dialogue™ involved in akashik processes as made clear by Devageet’s healing modality of Oshodontics™ executed by 10000 toothless but scientific buddhas flying through inner space like Stephen Hawking in a transcendental dental chair.

      I realised that I had been living with a few strands of DNA short of the full Atlantean quota but now, after many sessions of holographic illumination therapy™ I have come to realise that I am a mandala of original wholesomeness ™ . By moving from meditation to medication by accessing the memories reveals healing-core information that can enable healing to a degree not possible by other means.

      The words ‘Medication’ and ‘Meditation’ come from the same root: ‘medi’ – to come to the centre, to heal, thus we must all remember to take our medication every day and realise that teeth are made of an akashik combination of crystal and marble so the less marbles you have the better, and the less teeth you have, the more truth it is possible to contain.

      Devageet is certainly a great disciple and he has shown devotion in his work unparallelled except in recent times by the doctors of Prince and Michael Jackson,

      Also, tooth and truth also come from the same root, `t`, which why it all has to come out eventually.

      And remember,The goal of superpositions of possibilities is to plant the seeds of divinity rather than delusion.
      It is the knowledge of Osho`s vision, and of us. You and I are messengers of the planet.
      Consciousness consists of electromagnetic resonance of quantum energy. “Quantum” means a refining of the conscious.
      Potential requires exploration. This life is nothing short of a flowering fount of ancient being. Interconnectedness is a constant.

      We heal, we exist, we are reborn. Nothing is impossible. To embark on the vision quest is to become one with it.

      Have you found your path? How should you navigate this non-local multiverse?
      We must empower ourselves and synergize others. Imagine a maturing of what could be.
      If you have never experienced this osmosis at the speed of light, it can be difficult to dream. It can be difficult to know where to begin. The quantum cycle is calling to you via ultrasonic energy of orthodontics ™. Can you hear it?

      And with disciples of the calibre of Satchit, Bodhi Harangue and Madhu at the helm of Osho`s vision, what could possibly go wrong?

      • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

        All I hear just now is my laughter, Frank, and thank you for responding.

        I see you did ´dive´ deep into that issue of matter. And your answer came playful as ever ( before).

        However, please decide next time you mention me by name, to spell it correctly. Just a small request, nothing big, is it?

        Thanks for that beforehand, Frraannkk….

        Madhu

        • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

          P.S:
          Recommend to read Salman Rushdie´s latest, Frank:
          ‘Two Years Eight Months and Twenty-Eight Nights’ (Random House, NY).

          You will like it, if you don´t know it already.

          Sometimes you (and A. Yogi) remind me fairly of that author, when he showed up for a Q&A about his ´mystery tale´.

      • Lokesh says:

        ‘Devageet is certainly a great disciple and he has shown devotion in his work unparallelled except in recent times by the doctors of Prince and Michael Jackson,’

        Very good and really quite to the point, Frank.

      • Tan says:

        “Also, tooth and truth also come from the same root, `t`, which why it all has to come out eventually.”
        This is genius, Frank boy, you are getting better and better!
        Cheers! XXX

      • diane says:

        I am happy that you have recovered.

  13. shantam prem says:

    Once master died, I assume dentist must have felt it is not dignified to treat other people´s teeth.

    What he is doing now has any relevance with Osho I doubt.

  14. Arpana says:

    Shantam said of Devageet:
    “What he is doing now has any relevance with Osho, I doubt.”

    That’s a really good description of you, Shantam.

    By the way, the man is about 75 or 76. What exactly should he be doing that wouldn’t elicit sneers from the likes of you?

    • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

      Arpana says:
      1 August, 2017 at 10:20 pm
      “We’re actually a gang, Madhu. 47 of us. All having access to this account. None of us are actually sannyasins. None of us have ever meditated. None of us are capable of acting properly, of making a sincere, honourable decision. None of us have the slightest perceptive or discerning ability.”

      Sometimes, Arpana, the shit just hits the fan, how you British Natives say…And best then may be to quote yourself, Arpana, by some self-description you´ve given quite recently.

  15. swamishanti says:

    Tooth tips –

    I recently had a wisdom tooth pulled out and the socket became infected.

    The dentist will offer antibiotics- but you don`t need to bother.

    Aside from rinsing out the socket with salt water (24 hours after extraction , of course) I started rinsing the socket with clove oil, 12 drops in some water, three times a day; also used colloidal silver three times a day, and applied manuka honey 15+ to the socket – a potent mix and the infection was completely cleared within a week.

    So when your dentist offers you antibiotics – don`t bovver. Do it the natural way.

    And good manuka honey is brilliant stuff. Will soak into your gum, destroy any infection and heal at the same time.

  16. shantam prem says:

    The original Buddha lived much longer than the one we see in the statue. It means Siddhartha alias Buddha, who lived around 80 years, must have shown his teeth too to the doctor of his times.

    One thing is sure, there was no dental chair at that time and the dental chair, like most of other things, was not invented by the meditation practitioners.

    Calling Osho ‘Buddha’, one wonders Osho is a name or a title? Buddha surely is a title.

  17. shantam prem says:

    “Devageet is certainly a great disciple and he has shown devotion in his work unparallelled except in recent times by the doctors of Prince and Michael Jackson.”

    Is it a world-famous British humour where great allegations are made in a jolly good mood?

  18. sw. veet (francesco) says:

    I remember Osho’s gaze when he talked about suspicion of being poisoned, talking of a tree to which roots had been cut off.

    In my opinion, asking whether Osho would still be alive if he had around different people is misleading. It would mean giving him a will to live in opposition to someone else’s wish that he would die.

    My questions are others:
    To whom does the Master’s body (tree) belong when his love (freshness) has dissolved and became part of his lovers?
    And if he deliberately chose his gardener, entrusting power roles to those who loved him less?
    Or is it simply that he did not oppose when a hierarchy spontaneously was created around him, self-taunting as such in asking for his recognition?

    On one side, that among his self-styled lovers could have been “histrionic menopausal woman” (I do not need any other evidence) or people with hearts like stone, I would not exclude it.
    On the other side, he was too lazy to deny its fresh shadow to someone, but not so naive to be surprised by the cold anger which can sediment into the masochist or conformist type after all that incandescent catharsis (Pune1, encountering approach).

    Perhaps only too innocent, trusting in the true and loving gardeners who would have prevailed over the others, the ones who sold the tree, for thirty dinars, despite all that fresh fragrance, words blown for decades among the leaves.

    Ciao,

    VF

    P.S:
    My gratitude goes to the splendid Miasto tree under which we sang so many songs.

    And like wounded trees
    We are slowly losing light
    And we’re sick
    And then we find ourselves
    More and more alone and far
    Trees on the highway
    They pull away
    When I learn to love
    I will follow them.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSr5FKTm5c0

    • Arpana says:

      Seems to me, nobody would have been perfect in that situation. (Let’s not even get into a discussion of what’s perfect – Shantam’s version, Madhu’s version).

      We would all have taken our baggage with us into a situation of being close to him; and then how can we know how we would have behaved in that same situation, being the focus of all that admiration, being put on a pedestal, or denigrated, despised by onlookers. The focus of all that jealousy, all those negative and positive expectations.

      • frank says:

        Yeah, Arps,I know what you`re saying.
        I mean, if you had been in Adolf Eichmann`s position I guess you would have had to order all those canisters of gas, too.

        We`ve all got baggage; I reckon anyone at Sannyasnews could have picked up the wrong karmic luggage at the carousel at Nirvana airport on flight 05 HO from here to here, and ended up a serial poisoner, a dodgy medic, a Judas etc. Given half a chance, you would have done, I`m sure.

        When you think about it, we are all Sheela really, aren`t we?

        • Arpana says:

          Given that you never miss an opportunity to give everyone but Lokesh a kicking at every opportunity, I am grateful you weren’t in Sheela’s position, Frank; because I have no doubt you would have behaved even more badly.

        • Arpana says:

          And cut that kind of manipulative crap out as well. Frank.

        • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

          “When you think about it, we are all Sheela really, aren`t we?” (Frank)

          No, Frank, we are not.

          We are, anybody – as unique life-expressions – as Sheela is. But could be (I don´t really know if I am right) that you wanted to make a point, often very much neglected here: the energetic field of us all and our all inter-dependence in stuff, that went wrong.

          And as far as some wannabe ´Historians’ here are concerned (and not only here on a tiny website SN/UK) to watch and become conscious and to change actions IN the ´field´ instead of finding the next scapegoat to chase via MOB-entertainment. Be it on a website, be it in streetwork – or otherwise stalking crime stuff.

          The latter is here as well as outdoors and as habitual a process as it ever was. Maybe even worse as the social networking came into ´place´.

          And unique are the responses to that; if one is able to better see the individuals who are preferring to have a stance in the mob (as ‘anonymous´ ) you find out that their stances – even when barbarous – are unique.

          No – we are not ´all´ Sheela. But in fact she was obviously not supported in a healthy way by her immediate surroundings; healthy for herself and healthy for others. That´s painful to know.

          And we have not ´all´ been ´Charlie Hebdo´ on side of victims of a barbarous, inhuman, murderous act.

          A time where its high time to let go of any ´cliches´, I feel.

          Feeling all that vulnerabilty – and if you did mean that, I am with you (by experiencing it). Even when writing here on a Sannyas News website.

          And I gave it a chance, not to be exploited or abused with some ´advaita´ stance (= ´nothing ever happens´) or some crude ‘encounter’ bullshit´passed over from some buddhi who is not in his senses when working on the keyboard and giving it a send-off.

          Madhu

        • Lokesh says:

          Frank, you have confirmed my deepest suspicions about Arpana being a Sheela trapped in a man’s body. I am left wondering if a good exorcist might be of help. Perhaps Madhu has contacts in the Munich underworld.

          His blessings….

  19. Bong says:

    Excessive nitrous use can result in tooth/nerve damage and pain. Also if the root tips of an extraction (routine wisdom teeth extraction for example) are left in can also cause pain and problems without necessarily showing teeth in bad condition. Was Osho complaining to get some buxom blonde? Good for him!

    I also enjoyed nitrous (‘nangs’ they call it in Australia)…because of the sound Nang Nang Nang, but hardly consider it a path to enlightenment so I will simply say this: I enjoy reading your posts. We are all buddhas. The challenge is realise this and do something deserving of that realisation. I have said it before and will say it again we are all crazy until we realise We are God. We are one Shard of soul through which we gaze as a prism to the Whole.

    Hope that helps. If it does I’m broke and need some money. Lots of money preferably.
    I have a very important family reunion coming up and it requires a very expensive lawyer and international flights. Sadly, Osho Foundation didn’t invest in my Pune pitch else we might be meeting in AR on the Vive right now instead of text chat and we would all be incredibly rich.

    Perhaps Osho did organise his life 700 years ago knowing sannyasins would fuck it up. Maybe he knew I would write this. About to haggle for a fair taxi. Makes me miss the excellent taxi driver from Sanlitun! Look it up! Sanlitun Inn is a great hotel!

  20. shantam prem says:

    It seems none of the ladies and gentlemen have any personal experience to relate with Dr. Devageet, dentist of 20th century “Buddha”. So let me share some small trivia.

    I have seen Devageet from 1987 onwards, years after years. But as it was in the small village -like atmosphere, you don´t greet everyone unless some work is to do or personal equations exist.

    My first meeting was with him most probably in 1996-1997 or even later when commune introduced a new method to screen the crowd through ‘Buddha to Buddha’ event. It meant a few office bearers would interview the long time present people about their intentions to be in Pune, source of income and how long they intended to stay. Everyone had to pass this process every 3 months.

    During my second time, Devageet was my interviewer. After initial hello, I said in a light- hearted way, “Finally, after all these years, we have said hello?”
    He said, “Yes, I have seen you all these years and many times I have felt your sceptical gaze whenever we have passed each other.”

    This was something! I won´t deny it was true. My immediate response was, “No, no. It can be your perception. I admire all the people who have served Osho so well and because of this love for His people I am here.”

    He accepted my statement. My entry card was renewed. We hugged and every time we passed the same road at the same time there was some softness in the gaze of both.

    In hindsight, I will say Devageet is more reliable and less political than Amrito, the personal physician. I have an impression both have doubts about each other though they served the same master.

    Amrito is more handsome, articulate and very political mind efficient in Palace backbiting and intrigues. Once he was my favourite inspiration.

    • Kavita says:

      ‘Buddha to Buddha’ – what a fear creating event it used to be, ya, I remember my first one with Ma Zareen in Meera Barn & second with Sw. Vairagya (currently in Osho World) in Lao Tzu turned out ok later!

      Even though we never have had any exchange of words, have acknowledged each other through a glance accompanied with a nod, the last time I saw him at the back gate in December of 2008!

      My memory of Devageet is of him always appearing to being very alert & vigilant most of the times, especially every time I saw him in Buddha Hall before & after White Robe. In fact I somehow did not like his energy then but after he left The Inner Circle he appeared a little relaxed but he was still very stiff.

      • anand yogi says:

        Perfectly correct, Shantambhai!

        You say:
        “(Devageet) said, “Yes, I have seen you all these years and many times I have felt your sceptical gaze whenever we have passed each other.”

        This was something! I won´t deny it was true. My immediate response was, “No, no. It can be your perception. I admire all the people who have served Osho so well and because of this love for His people I am here.” He accepted my statement. My entry card was renewed.

        This wonderful anecdote illumines the level of honesty that the truly devoted spiritual seekers of enlightenment such as yourself embody!

        Grovelling, bowing, scraping and inserting tongue in anus of overlord and getting what you want whilst passing it off as religion…It is certainly what the wisdom of mighty Bhorat is all about!

        In the words of Buddha himself:
        “Truth is what works”!

        Yahoo!
        Hari Om!

        • shantam prem says:

          Yes, it is part of the same shit as writing faceless.

          • anand yogi says:

            Shantambhai,
            To idolise the handsome gora, then lick his ass, then lie to his face to get closer to enlightenment. Are these not great things to be proud of for one born on the browned soil of mighty Bhorat?

            Your lifestory is an educational tale for all who wish to truly understand the ways of how the mind of the spiritual and religious work!

            Let us hope that all here admire you, who have served Osho so well and have loved his people so sincerely!

            Yahoo!

  21. Arpana says:

    Have a go at this, Madhu:

    humanmetrics.com

    You’re probably an ISFP.

  22. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    Every view lies in the eyes of the beholder, Arpana. Thanks for sharing your view and the suggestions (addressed to me) rooted in that view.

    That I´m surprised about your stance I cannot say, but I am very grateful for a beautiful memory that brought your response to me:

    An old Jungian therapist letting go already in Pune I of his way of diagnosing people; later, we became friends on the Ranch, where we loved to chat here and there: such a big heart he had.

    Parting – he just waved his hands and said: “See you (again).”

    Everybody can say that, but such a difference that makes, if someone with the tone of and flavour of trust around his body is speaking.

    Madhu

  23. Arpana says:

    “Parting – he just waved his hands and said: “See you (again).”

    Everybody can say that, but such a difference that makes, if someone with the tone of and flavour of trust around his body is speaking.”

    Nice story, Madhu, but you don’t have a flavour of trust around you, so I don’t get what point you’re making.

  24. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    This is not a ´story’ but a beautiful experience; and I didn´t (!) brag about me in this case, Arpana, but spoke about an elder sannyasin friend I have been happy to experience like this when I needed it. If you read my response again, you will ´get it properly what I wrote
    (and shared).

    And btw, good that you changed your MIND and changed from that facebook clone-smiley meanwhile to some other inhuman rubbish. That ‘smiley’ hadn´t anyway an authentic smell of taste in it, as far as I have come to know you from your graphic-design contributions.

    As soon as I left the house around early evening here (just two) of the fascist wives here operating in that kind of ´family constellation circus´ have been very busy. They are (like the neighbouring Turkish wife) very proud of their cyberstalking and orgSYS stalking capacity teams here.

    And if those kind of people are waiting to show up, as a gang, when I leave the house or when I am coming home again, they truly see me in rage about that kind of mafia stuff of mistreating not only any of my data they´re cyberstalking, but mistreating my person too!

    So maybe you had a coffee or Turkish tea with such kind of gang cyberstalkers and stalkers (?) before you sat down at your ´smart´ broadcasting your so-called latest ´Sannyas News Caravanserai´ statements under you name, Arpana.

    How about your very ´tooth-truths’, btw? To come back to the thread topic. All good and fine? Have a good dentist?

    Madhu

    MOD:
    orgSYS stalking capacity teams – WHAT DO YOU MEAN, PLEASE, Madhu?

    Madhu:

    You asked what means orgSYS stalking capacity teams? Somebody described what I am facing here, quite a while ago:

    “Predatory Gangstalking is a criminal phenomenon referring to a group of loosely affiliated people who, in an organised and systematic manner, relentlessly invade all areas of an individual’s life on a continuing basis, as part of their lifestyle. While each individual gangstalker does his or her small part, what defines Predatory Gangstalking is the collective intent to do harm.” (R.B.Ross c 2005)

  25. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    True, Arpana,
    You didn´t get the point I was making; and as stubborn as ever, you couldn´t even wait and maybe sleep about this exchange, what was happening today in the UK/SN chat and about your role in it.

    Btw, if you find time, you could please share wherein your knowledge about flavour – or not flavour – around me, is rooted?
    And as well, you could please share wherein your profound knowledge about me being “paranoid”´ (even “exceptionally paranoid” like you wrote today) is rooted?

    Looking forward to your exceptionally honest responding to these questions am I.

    Sincerely,

    Madhu

  26. Arpana says:

    “So maybe you had a coffee or Turkish tea with such kind of gang cyberstalkers and stalkers (?) before you sat down at your ´smart´ broadcasting your so-called latest ´Sannyas News Caravanserai´ statements under you name, Arpana.”

    Even by your standards that’s exceptionally paranoid, Madhu. Remember: ‘Every view lies in the eyes of the beholder.’

    “This is not a ´story’ but a beautiful experience; and I didn´t (!) brag about me in this case, Arpana, but spoke about an elder sannyasin friend I have been happy to experience like this when I needed it. If you read my response again, you will ´get it properly what I wrote
    (and shared).”

    I didn’t say you were bragging.

    The impression I got from the story was that you were nostalgic about that moment and unhappy at the lack of fragrance of trust in seemingly everybody you have any dealings with, and given you don’t have that fragrance around you either I didn’t get the point of the story tagged onto the rest of the post.

  27. Arpana says:

    Madhu.
    Is there a German equivalant of ‘pot, kettle, black’?
    Or as you so eruditely put it:
    “Every view lies in the eyes of the beholder”?

  28. satchit says:

    “Even by your standards that’s exceptionally paranoid, Madhu. Remember: ‘Every view lies in the eyes of the beholder.’”

    Difficult to convince someone who sees a snake with the eyes and in reality it’s a rope.

  29. Arpana says:

    Someone with no sense of proportion you mean.