I was a commune sannyasin between 1982 and 1986 – and often thought since about my fellow communards – we were a surrendered bunch, unlike sannyasins who lived in the world – and without that atmosphere of surrender it would not have been easy to stay… , and it is true that, more than is advertised some did leave. I can remember a friend leaving in the night, hitting the walk to the nearest road, and hitching out of Medina, or having taken a short holiday to visit family etc, coming back but saying they had to go and lay on a beach. So what type of people were we really – the ones who stayed, and stayed, until rather than us leaving the commune, the commune simply disintegrated around us and left us on the beautiful free road again, going nowhere and nowhere to go. ( A great space by the way!)
There is a little known study about us published in 1987 by the University of Oregon in the journal Sociological Analysis which conveyed a demographic and psychological picture of commune residents gathered from surveys done in 1983.
Some facts were interesting: 54% of residents were women, 75% had been sannyasins for more than 3 years, nearly half for more than 5 years. 60% reported themselves as not being religious before taking sannyas.
Commune residents according to this report were incredibly well educated compared to the general population, 95% graduated from high school and 64% from university. Fully 36% of the residents had a masters or doctoral degree. About 60% of the degrees were in arts and humanities or social sciences. Almost 50% of commune residents came from cities of 100,000 or larger, an urban group, to be sure, for a partly agricultural commune (on the Ranch at any rate). 62% professed liberal or radical politics.
As for psychological well-being and mental health, commune sannyasins scored high as compared to the general population. 93% reported being in the top two categories of life satisfaction. Their mean rating on the Perceived Stress Scale was 15.22, much lower as compared to 23.34 for the general population.
Such findings were summarized as showing that commune residents scored high on measures of affluence, education, mental health and psychological well-being.
It seems then we were an educated bunch, but I do wonder if we lacked common sense, and realism. How come we tagged so easily into surrender, and how come some hard to excuse crimes happened just hidden out of our sight, though not the sight of all. And why didn’t those who kind of knew make more a fuss? Can I suggest that “education” is a poor indicator of real qualities like courage, independence of thought, and wisdom in power situations? Now I wonder what do our beloved readers think!!
i read that study about 15 years ago- i was living in the area and used that library often… they even have a huge selection of osho books- all 1st editions!! nice selection of eastern philosophy and theosophy… Eugene supposedly has the largest underground ex-sannyasin community on the west coast, some 200-300 people… cause people in oregon still can’t get over what happened… i mentioned that several times… too bad…..
Sannyasnews news editor: It’s about fucking time!!… a practical and real editorial… particularly the last paragraph…. shantam, anugrah and company… don’t strain your brain while reading….
maybe bhagwan was the dad you never had.
look at the bosses in the resort eg.
all estranged from their dads….
having a sparkly eyed dad surrogate saying
mm yes very good…even when you were a complete idiot,that was like meeting well,father xmas wasn`t it?
better than the jerk you grew up with,eh?
on the neg side its the old stanford university experiment,remember that one when they got students to electrocute people…just obeying orders etc..?
on the plus..
dancing,working,funning,hypnagogic trances for the spaceheads and druggies,or ex druggies.
spooning which tended to lead to forking
and a reason to be,not just a reason the best reason ever invented the highest of the high
enlightenment….
wow,
mine`s a double ,bartender,and one for the lady in red,too…..
wahay we was mugged good and proper…
“improvement makes straight roads,but the crooked roads without improvement are the roads of genius”…..
Frank with nice prose and beautiful satiric writing with a right amount of conventional psycology, weeks after weeks, months after months…
Without doubt this shadowy Figure has a real life experience to be with Osho and His people..
Question is why this obviously intelligent man will express himself through the Mask of anonymity, is his being does not cry for this Talibansing prose shooted from behind the rocks….
What kind of fear of backlash is stooping you to express your wisdom. Do the face looks worn out or may be fatter than Shantam´s…?
Healer heal thyself..play fair…and than convey your understanding..give authenticity to your voice…
Same is true for Martyn and big mouthed Bubbie..
Do you have the fear that paid goons will crush you in your bathtub or on the way to work…?
Please, check in the morning whether you guys have the intact Balls, more than one but less than three!
shantam- you need to start drinking-heavily.. it’ll clear up your brain.
The article says “Can I suggest that “education” is a poor indicator of real qualities like courage, independence of thought, and wisdom in power situations? Now I wonder what do our beloved readers think!!”
Osho preached that the role of the teacher is to light the fire of rebeliousness and rebellious thinking, and the values of independence, courage and bold thinking in his students. So I would not say it was the lack of education,
The crimes which happened in the commune were because some of the sannyasins who had authority were crooks. And the proper response to crooks is to catch them and put them in jail.
Obviously the criminals knews that they were committing crimes and so they intimidated, bribed or otherwise made sure no one knew of their activities. Just like Bernie Madoff. But just because Bernie Madoff was a crook does not mean businessmen as a whole are crooks.
As far as lacking commonsense and realism, my experience is that Osho’s sannyasins are some of the most rational persons I have met. Very independent and courageous. I have observes that sannyasins in general know how to think boldly and radically. They are certainly some of the most intelligent persons and some of the most modern and up-to-date persons I know of. The other group being Ayn Rand and the Objectivists who are certainly no less courgeous, independent and bold than Osho’s sannyasins.
In general, I believe that Osho’s movement or his sannyasins are not to be judged according to the actions of crooks like Sheela and her gang.
Typo: “So I would not say it was the lack of education,”
I meant to say, I would not say that it was because they lacked something which education could not give. In fact, Osho’s whole work as a teacher was to light the fire of rebelliousness, independence, courage and bold thinking in his disciples and sannyasins. I would simply say that Sheela and her gang were crooks and leave it at that. I would not say that the education of sannyasins was not enough to perpare and qualify them for positions of authority.
By the way i have just become aware that there is a constitutional ban on abortion in Ireland and as a believer in a woman’s right to her own body I think that Ireland should be burned to the ground.
Shahriar, let us talk about the others later,start from our immediate neighbourhood, have you ever thought why more than 50% writers at sannyasname are fictitous names; the people with most abusive language yet a clear cut vision that they are capable to walk the walk without borrowed sticks.
Why they are not able to write honestly with their identity? They are not teenegae kids who spray Graffiti on other people´s cars, who enjoy to steal six pack beer..
Frank or Martyn or Bubbie..55 years plus gentlemen with intensive study and experience of Osho are writing, they way Iranian or other Islamic,
(wo)man commit adultary and sodomy….
Fear of prosecution..because they know, they are doing something stupid and childish or Fear of shame that if there loved ones find their writing, it will be let down for them, the way sex girls work with false identity…??
Why people with intensive experience of Osho are still as full with Ego protectting equipments as any other social group..
Are Sannyasins consuming, the copycat Viagara instead of Real one…so much knowledge..so less substance..
But We all know..in the world of inner medicines..Osho stands as apart as Pfizer” among the spurious and also legitimate pharma trade operation from India, Turkey and Nigeria..
I am not sure what you mean shantam when you say martyn, bubbie and frank are afraid of prosecution of their views and write with fictitious names. If they want to write with fictitious names that is their perogative and if they feel that there is a real threat to their lives and safety, they have every right and in fact should keep their identity a secret. But the only threat I can imagine is if some islamic totalitarian decides to send death threats or something (the solution to that being waging a WW2 style war against Islamic totalitarian countries, with Iran and Saudi Arabia being the primary targets. A war without self-crippling restrictions I might add.) otherwise sannyasins have never been persecuted because of being sannyasins by westerners to the point where they would have to hide their identity. Neither has such a thing happened to sannyasins in India.
Shantam, I am an egoist and I advocate for egoism. I believe that egoism is healthy and that a man cannot properly live, succeed and prosper without a strong and healthy ego. I believe that Osho was an egoist and that to be successful, prosperous and happy like Osho it is necessary to be a strong egoist.
I am not sure if I would say that what they are doing is stupid or childish although in general I try to avoid bad language but that is just me.
As far as fear of shame, ashamed of what? Of being an Osho sannyasin, that is not something to be ashamed of, that is something to be proud of. It is a testament to the intelligence, the boldness and the courage of the party concerned. It shows that they are not camels but rather lions. That is something to be proud of.
By the way, I think that Micheal Moore and Noam Chomsky should be killed or as the russians like to say “liquidated.”
I also thought that I add that I think that Ayn Rand is one of the Masters which Theosohphy talks about who works through only esoteric groups as opposed to having an exoteric group which professes spirituality and religion.
As far as keeping one’s identity a secret to avoid being killed by Islamic totalitarians. I personally think it is cowardly on the part of people who refuse to do out of fear and it is an abdication on the part of the U.S. government of their resbonsibility to protect the lives and individual rights of their citizens so that they are not afraid of speaking out against Islamic totalitarianism. And the solution to this lies in the ideas of Ayn Rand and Objectivism.
I view egoism as a positive thing, as a good thing.
shariar thats because you havent got one that works….you need to upgrade…
#
i wish there was an organisation calling for
the Prevention of Interference by Middle-aged Bourgeois Therapists in Other Younger People’s lives under the Banner of Insightful Growth for Profit by way of osho, cos No-One would Give Them the Time of Day Otherwise….
wait a minute….
what a good idea
it might work … but it needs a shorter name.. an acronym….
how about
the Pith of Lerve-and-Your-Money..at-your-Emotional Expense while we Watch.
or the not very Humaniversity
its simple but possibly quite effective…
get an ad campaign going and presto we’ll be er… rich???
Say its a charity with all proceeds going to the inner circle of 21.. to help them stock large amounts of alcohol for the winter season meetings…
ps Latest news from the inner circle meetings…
Following mounting public pressure for accountability the inner circle have decided to publish their meetings in full.
see here:
Xmas preparation Meeting.. 21 members present (one comatose)
……………………………………..
The inner circle have decided yet again to cancel Xmas. Everyone was in agreement.
Wholesale supplies of Sodexo Fine Malt Brew will be given out to all members of the 21 for the not Xmas festivities. Members have unanimously agreed to donate all their Sodexo hooch to Doc Amrito’s for safe keeping and no questions asked.
The 21 have further agreed to keep any other meetings completely secret because its the only way to help the planet and save it from a bunch of self appointed wankers like us getting into power.
this item was originally posted under the john lennon link becos marty boy is only partially aware
following recent scurrillous comments without foundation here on SN, the editors wish to point out that there is no intention of misrepresentation of any association , club or religion and any likeness between names is purely fictional..
the editors wish also to point out that they really really apologise this time and it wont happen again because we dont want to have to repeatedly apologise, or end up like mr assange…
shantam.. i dont know who YOU are actually… the only difference being i couldnt give a flying toss….
No doubt most Labour and Tory politicians are well educated from an urban background. Given their high salaries I guess they score well on life satisfaction and psychological well being.
Shantam is right, many of those sannyasins were immoral to some degree.
Did they “have to become sannyasins” because they could not get on with ordinary, more moral, people. Look at the crappy new age therapies many of them went on to make a career out of.
This is an email I sent to Dr. Leonard Peikoff, the legal and intellectual heir of Ayn Rand who runs a podcast among other activities and shows how Ayn Rand’s philosophy of Objectivism applies to practial issues of the day. I asked him what he think of the Wikileaks affair and Julian Assange. He was very busy with questions so he had a teacher of Objectivism Tore Boeckmann answer my question. His response is reproduced below.
Leonard Peikoff writes:
Thank you for sending a question, and an appropriate one, to my podcast.
Unfortunately, I am being inundated by questions at present, and on the show
can deal only with a fraction of them. I do not, however, want to leave
questioners such as yourself without any guidance. So Tore Boeckmann, a
longtime student and teacher of Objectivism, has kindly agreed to help out.
Because of the abundance of questions, Mr. Boeckmann can of course give only
a brief indication of the Objectivist answer. But he and I hope that this
will be of value to you in your future thinking.
Let me say that I do not myself see any of Mr. Boeckmann’s answers, which
are entirely his own, but that I have great confidence in his knowledge and
intellectual ability.
Leonard Peikoff
Re your question below:
There is no such thing as the right to publish U.S. military and
intelligence secrets — that is, secrets vital to the protection of the
individual rights of Americans given the threat of force from abroad. As
soon as Assange announced his intention to publish such military secrets (as
opposed to diplomatic cocktail party gossip) the U.S. government should have
put a stop to it, by any means necessary.
Tore Boeckmann
I accidentally posted this on the John Lennon article, here it is where i intended to post it.
shantam i’m sure that frank is frank…what more proof do you need.. and bubbie is an alcoholic..
and me well i love everyone… its just who i am …
ps
…cunt tits wank piss fuck bollox
prem martyn // Dec 18, 2010 at 12:57 pm
shantam.. i dont know who YOU are actually… the only difference being i couldnt give a flying toss….
You can side track, Martyn, Ask yourself why the fuck people like you are unable to write with their identity, most probably you know..somekind of meaninglessness is eating the being, it is not just anxiety or a feeling of being let down…a sense of failure, which most of the sannyas community is in grip, specially those who have given their best years of life to an ideal, to a vision..and to see their O POd has no buyer, it has no market other than the discourses of the Master, but than words are wrods…
Can the energy arising out of pornigraphic literature is a substitute for Love?
I will be ex communicated if i say, Osho discourses are the best pornographic literature, if Pornography is a right word to impose on spiritual literaure…the mastery and the command over his subject is overwhelming and people who read, simply get transported into a different dimension…
But as He himself has said, ” It is not the Real thing.”
May be the simplicity of the message is too complex..
shantam here’s a metaphor for you…
you are like a cunt.. a fat stupid cunt
Shahriar, as I’ve commented before, at times your comments simply illustrate how out of your depth you are on the subjects tou are tackling here on SN. You state, ‘I view egoism as a positive thing, as a good thing.’
In case you have not noticed, that is how nearly everyone else on this planet sees this. Yet you declare this as if there is something radical about what you are saying. You even go so far as to project your ego love onto Osho and declare him to be an egoist and that being a great egoist was the source of his happiness. This is laughable. To most on SN..even the detractors…you are making yourself look like a simpleton speaking like this. You have not even worked out basic life equations like: As you are so is the world. Let us not even go into dimensions where we can speak about people who do not know how to give up the comfort and assurance of the prop we know collectively as personality.
As for crooks, I think Osho was a big crook. What is so bad about that? Some of my best friends are crooks. Only difference about Osho was that he was an enlightened crook. Time and again he spoke of how he would destroy people’s ideas about how an enlightened man should behave. The catholic sannyasins thought he was joking and that is why the joke is on them
A wise man once told me for those of you here on SN who are calling each other cunts etc. etc. that you can attract more bees with honey than with vinegar.
Frank is a Frank..must be half millions franks in UK?
And you are Martyn….who loves everyone…
How old are you, When you got your sannyas name?
You were speaking with Dollano and Mukta, Devageet and Amrito and so on..Won´t you like them to know..how creatively you are expressing as an honest and upright disciple.
How you look like, how one will find you at facebook among the 500 million faces…
Simple thing is…stand for your words…Give them the authenticity and the right to assassinate if something thinks you are following the footsteps of Salman Rushdie..
May be state can protect with the grace of God..
Shantam, I’ve been observing your writing for some time now and it is embarassingly obvious from the way you express yourself that there is a lot of sexual repression in your psyche. Hence your love of words like pornography and the projection of images such as having women’s underwear stuffed in your mouth etc.
I suggest on the short term that you spend 50 euros a week on fucking a hooker for fifteen minutes…that is if you physical condition does not prevent you from mainting an erection for quarter of an hour. In might not be the real thing but it might help to get that load off your mind.
lokesh seems like the malt is a rare fine brew.. and is having the desired effect…
if sharia law continues to misbehave .. we will have to put him in detention….
and please put shantam out of my misery.. tell him who i am please.. my reputation is at stake
and its bothering me… he says i’m a nobody.. which as a meditator. i find scurrillous
I don’t believe that Osho was a crook whether a mysticaly enlightened crook or otherwise. I believe that Osho was an innovator. Osho was inventing, thinking in new ways and had ideas that no one had ever thought of before. Like his idea of Zorba the Buddha, or the old man vs. the new man, or that there is no division between body and soul, between matter and spirit. He was bringing a revolution in thought and values and he was also a patriotic indian. We wanted what was best for his country, he wanted his country to prosper and flourish and become successful. And the solution which he saw to this was to import capitalism and science and technology to become materially more prosperous because as he said many times religion is a luxury, the ultimate luxury in fact. Enlightenment is a rich man’s search, the search of Buddha was the search of a man who had all that the material world could offer but was not satisfied. And again and again he repeated that the mistake these enlightened ones made was to think that everybody had what they had and to preach renunciation. He preached again and again that Buddha had the most beautiful girls in the kingdom available to him and everybody did not have such thing and that it was the preaching of renunciation and the respect for poverty which is the cause of India’s poverty and misery.
prem martyn // Dec 18, 2010 at 1:48 pm
shantam here’s a metaphor for you…
you are like a cunt.. a fat stupid cunt
I think in this thread, i leave aside the top brass, and focus on the crawling ants…The liers, the cheaters, the cowards who are throwing words in the public arena, the way some spoiled youngman throws his handfull of semen out of the window and sings- fly my baby fly….
I can understand, when someone wants to test the water, feels little shy and insecure and therefore uses fake name…it is humanly beautiful but months after months…cleverness has a limit…
Lokesh, Kavita, Chetna, Shahriar, Shantam, Anugrah, Satya deva, Chinamya, Swami Gyan Parkash, Alok John, Amrito, Editor of Viha connection, his name is not coming out from my search engine, Anthony Thompson, Bob…and few others too…
Is it not wonderful that so many people have written time and again with their names, with their sannyas identities..
What stops Bubbie, Martyn, Frank and few others..and these people are the regular writers.and write with complete liberty…
I agree with you Shantam, people should write with their real identity. It is cowardly to do otherwise.
he also said you shariar are a fucking waste of space….a spunk in the ocean of life
Shantam, you just don’t listen do you? You are hung up sexually…I mean to say….’handfull of semen out of the window’.
You have a problem.
oh dear shantam .. stay with being a lawyer.. detective work is not your style…
By the way everyone check out my blog at:
http://philosophya1.blogspot.com/
and feel free to comment on it to.
Lokesh, i am not following the spoken and writing style of His holiness Late Shri Punjaji Maharaj….
i will lie too, if i say, Other than Osho i am influenced by any one else..
Jeevan Guru, auwane Chela.. is a common saying in Punjabi..The way master is, disciples are…
In Hindi, it is almost impossible to use the sex related words in a literary sense, society has not devloped and evoloved this much to face the mirror from all the angels.
English language and literature has this much courage to encouter the face with all the pimples and shadows..
When someone paints the picture with words, it becomes many times important and in the context to use the Sexual terminolgy with right intentions…
it shows the evolution…and shocking impacts are part of the evolution and SEX as a theme has perfect provocation element..
Please don’t forget about Khajuraho and Konarak Shantam, and tantric philosophy.
last time i went to america i was asked.. who are you..
i replied i’m a meditator…
they then hauled me over for questioning
apparently all sannyassins are part of a terrorist organisation according to their database..sannyas was categorized as such, despite attempts at its removal
i suppose being a bunch of fanatical bohemians jumping up and down is threatening when you think about it….i’d run if i saw one coming
Shahriar, declaring ‘I agree with you Shantam, ‘ is on par with telling people that you have discovered hair growing on the palms of your hands….in other words, it means you are telling the world that you are a chronic masturbator…well, maybe that is why you agree with Shantam, so…em..sorry…I stand corrected…no innuendo intended.
Yes Martyn, I read about that sannyasin thing on Wikileaks also.
the way some spoiled youngman throws his handfull of semen out of the window and sings- fly my baby fly….
Lokesh, you can spend hours on the internet search, can go through all the xxx stories sites and the dialogues…not a single time you will find this metaphor as a punch line…
Just by living in Ibiza, and going on the beach naked is not just enough to come out from the puritian and Victorian attitude.
I wonder what will be your opinion when you read that Switzerland is on the verge of legalising consensual Incest. It is one of the main news in the media. I was astonished to read, few of the countires like Spain, Holland, France, Russia have already taken this out from the panel offence…
Will you throw these people in the last hell with your contempt?
HA! That gave me quite a laugh. Bureaucrats are truly idiots. To put Ayatollah Khomaniac and Osho in the same category truly requires that a person be an idiot to do such a thing. To think that they would include Islamic totalitarianism and Osho’s sannyas movement shows that bureaucrats don’t know anything. Also, the word terrorism is not the correct word when speaking about Islamic totalitarianism. The correct word is Islamic totalitarianism. The ideology which seeks to impose Sharia law and control every aspect of the individual’s life. Terrorism is a tactic. To declare war on terrorism is like declaring war on kamikaze pilots. Terrorism is not an ideology. (For those who are interested watch a few lectures by Yaron Brook on youtube or at the Ayn Rand Institute.)
Shantam you say, ‘I wonder what will be your opinion when you read that Switzerland is on the verge of legalising consensual Incest.’
Well wonder no longer big boy….I know my geography and therefore I know that it is only a short drive down the E35 to Basel, Switzerland with Mama in the back seat…and…well..I was always good at arithmatic…so one and one makes…
Shahriar, reading your latest post I am left in no doubt that you have one of the greatest intellects in the…em…stone age.
they asked me.. are you now or have you ever been a meditator….?
so i started .. i’m not a f…
then i realised and stopped short…
i said
not a fully practising one.. just part-time when i have the odd moment…
he said
well thats not what it says here.. it says you are going to visit PETA … thats not meditation….
I said according to buddhism ahemm ‘ non violence to all living creatures’ is one of the fundamental precepts..
He bashed a large ink blot onto my passport .. and allowed me on my way…
he looked a bit like Ben Turpin from the laurel and Hardy movies.. cross eyed definitely…
i replied God bless America…and he stiffened .. amazing what a few well chosen words can do i thought to myself…. i must try it more…
Yes, yes, Martyn, but everyone has already read about your encounter on Wikileaks…it’s with the same batch as the thallium conspiracy.
PS….’i replied God bless America…and he stiffened’…you are getting as bad as Shantam, the man who throws handfuls of sperm out of the window.
after he’s had a chuck out the window… will his eyes be ‘double glazed’
Lokesh, what batch do you mean because I think the thallium conspiracy is bizarre and nonsense and I don’t believe in it. I am simply going to ignore your insult because you seem to have no manners, neither do you know what proper behaviour is with such insults as saying that someone’s intellect is equal to the intellect of a stone age person.
shantam.. sharia law is on your side… aren’t you lucky to be offered such wisdom….
Shahriar, sorry, slip of the keyboard, I meant ‘Stoned Age’..as you are obvioiusly heavilly stoned on some nullifying opiate, or else how else could you post such mundane drivel on a public blog, with millions of readers laughing at your ridiculous comments and not feel ashamed…do fifty hail marys as a punishment. Proper behaviour! That is a good one,
Shantam and Shahriar…the dynamic duo…more laughs a minute than a Tommy Cooper show…just like tha!
This is how a true master dies.
The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.
shantam i’ve booked you in for the satori group…
now then…
tell me who you are
Why would anyone want to know who Shantam is?
Marty..I have no intention to put people in embarrasing position as we all have our limitations, an existantial or social wound in every heart, but the convenitonal wisdom requires that how so ever small role we play in our surroundings, it should be clear cut transparant, even the military science has its do´s and don´ts.
People like you or Bubbie and Frank must adhare to the basics of life, raise as many question mark over Osho, sannyas, group leaders and all the perepharia connected, but do it with dignity..stand with your words…
Don´t book me in Satori group, simply tell what is your sannyas name..
police in west germany havetoday arrested an indian man armed with a wet flannel after reports of attempted cloud seeding from the first floor window..
when arrested he smiled.. singing ,..
‘its raining se-men hallelujah’
shantam you fucking dumb dumb arse….
what have you got in your head, that repeats ad infinitum…
if you want to believe i am not.. great.. but if you think you are getting anymore info on me based on your supposition too bad.. i dont want my social network buggered by internetty trekkies….
The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.
this is a video of me shantam…
now stop asking….
Great sensuous video,martyn. even if you send this girl Live to me, it won´t be enough Birbary to buy the silence…
But on a friendly basis, enough nugging for this thread.
Atleast, it is clear..your social network does not know about your dark side, the literary skill at snews.
Shantam- the failed lawyer and wanna be sannyasin. then we have shah-riar- an iranian psychopath– any questions?
shah-riar- don’t you read your own psychotic posts? Anyone you don’t like or disagree you want “killed” or Liquidated”… any country- burned to the ground… sounds psycho doesn’t it? if you think not, you need to be “liquidated”!!!! happy shah of iran’s birhtday!!!
Shantam- i’d rather post with a bogus name than post insane mutterings with a genuine name- then again, who on here is actually genuine anyway? P.S. for 50 Euros, you’d have to take a bath first before any prostitute will fuck you. You might want to unravel your turban and get it washed first. those spider webs can obstruct air flow to the brain.
COMMUNE…
When one listens and reads Osho..it becomes clear, how much emphasis He has given to commune of seekers.
and how many times he has repeated the story of Edison, that even when a project failed 99 times, he did not have worries on his face on the contraray gratification that success is not far away, it must be round the corner…
But to be in the commune, one most important ingredient is the team owrk and the power to mold one´s ego and still to keep the dignity and individuality intact..
After Osho´s departure till 99, His commune was working almost smoothly though in reality it was more like a resort as 95 percent people were living on rented accomodation and yet feeling at Home..because heart was there….
Bu than the western ambition creeped in, If we simply take the commune concept away, it will be able to cater a big chunk of managers with the comapny credit cards…
A dishonesty in approach..and that too in 21st century where many times patients have more information that the doctors. Policy backfired!
regarding the sannyasin organization being on the terrorist watch list– old news….get used to it.
Shantam says, “people like you or bubbie and frank must adhare to the basics of life…” I do… right on!! eating, breathing, sleeping, drinking, shitting and shagging… what else is there? oh yeah shantam, you discovered extra basics of life… mumbling incoherent rantings and metaphors…. and wanking into shah-riar’s mouth.
Dec. 15th (Reuters)- the former Crown prince of nepal arrested for shooting a patron during an argument in a restaurant. I wonder if he learned to respond in that manner during one of Arun’s satsangs? nicely done bro! passing the tradition of violence on from sheela to the nepalese royals. next time use a Polish target pistol.
okay for new news.. bubbie can you look forward for me and tell whats happening as i’m getting fed up with the past and the present is very fleeting..no sooner am i in the moment than its gone…. i need some security that my life will have some more sparkly bits .. like edison… so bubbie.. the future
its what we live in but havent a clue about…
we live forward.. but look back…
help…
I have noticed that there is no bridge between old sannyasins and newcomers to osho.
Often old sannyasins specailly indians tell newcomers lies about there events with osho. Most of the time i found those events never took place the way they were told by them ,
those were fake claims
osho often mention time to time certain people in his daily discourses. like SANT MAHARAJ, SARDAR, NEELAM, NIVEDANO,VEERESH, SAVBHAV, MANEESHA ,VIMAL. MILEREPA and few more like sheela, teertha and others.
now osho is not around in body , many old sannyasins who are still in body has start to lie to newcomers and tell their events with osho which really never happened
specailly indians who were born in jabalpur or near gadawara. You often hear false claims by them on osho just to get some fame and sometimes some cash from new lovers of osho.
westerns like milerepa, nivedano and some others do not play this game with newcomers. They move in the world like nobody and normal
but old indian sannyasins of osho often bragging about his devotion .
Truth is that osho hardly met any indian after 1981. perheps few times here and there.
If you want to see what is my point , see ageha bharti’s facebook pages, or read ma jyoti’s book . you will read too much non sence stuff which never took place around osho.
every osho sannyasins has to do journey from somebody to being Nobody special and not the vise versa
When me and Osho used to sit doing big rails of coke in his air-conditioned room I used to say, ‘Hey, man, it’s fucking freezing in here.’
Osho would turn to me fart loudly and say, ‘Stay cool Loks, stay cool.’ He’d then turn the control dial to minus 5 and say,’ Have another line and chill, bro.’
Those were the days.
P.M. I bet those were “enlightened” veggie based farts Osho blew…. they had special meaning…. like a diamond in a ruff. Carlos Castaneda never blew such mysterious farts…. What did it mean? Shah-riar has the answer.
Maybe P.E.T.A can help??
Did Punja ji has also air condtion in his room?
Most probably the sweet mystic from Lucknow has spend all the summers under USHA fan.
Simple living, high thinking and grandpa´s warmth!
parmartha has written at great pains to illustrate how intelligent white sannyassins in oregon were… and all we can do is talk about farts..
how childish
apparently having phd’s doesnt stop you from blowing off..
anais nin.. lovely girl fucked her dad loads… anyway she was intelligent independent etc etc.. she said we grow at different measures in different areas of our life….at different times
we werent at all grown up then…. and i’m afraid the trend continues.. really its all such low humour cant anyone quote me some Ginsberg for some intellectual raison d’etre
or perhaps dylan……
classic
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isn’t farting great
life is great
and farting makes it better…
there is a god.. you just have to look…
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nite.nite
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The vibes and times of Osho, the immortal energy…
How long Pune will keep the doors shut, how long visitors will be robbed from their inheritance….
P.M. If you can’t feel comfortable talking about- eating, drinking, shitting, farting, belching and fucking, then you might as well put a gun to your head and pull the trigger…. but first give shantam and shahriar law a hand, they keep missing…(typical of dumb Polacks)
P.M. nightie night… many pleasant fart dreams.
shantam- go back to bed, you idiot!!!
“I agree with you Shantam, people should write with their real identity. It is cowardly to do otherwise.”
on the other hand, like myself… some of are just to lazy to create an alternative identity.
When Garimo says something it means it is important.
Shantam, I watched the Osho birthday vid,,,,where did that take place? Looks like a nice location.
Personally, none of that smaltzy music is to my taste but the sentiment is fine. All that emotional outpouring…I’m not sure what is spiritual about that but people expressing themselves freely and energetically is cool with me.
Looked like a typical sannyasin celebration.
“When Garimo says something it means it is important.”
I’m not so sure of that.
But I’m having trouble these days keeping up with the maintenance of having one identity. It can get pretty fluid at times…
What’s mine… what’s not? and then there’s the whole “what’s real?” thing.
This years Xmas Charity Project sponsored by Sunpat News
Many of us this Xmas will be enjoying the company of our family and friends, sitting by the crackling log fire.Enjoying the glittering Xmas decorations and a hearty laugh filled warm Xmas pudding shared together.The starry- spangled paper-wrapped presents still festoon around the tree and the sound of jingling bells is heard caressing the frosted windows.
But wait,…. spare a thought for those less fortunate…..
Up and down the land there are many people less fortunate than you,..
Yes, the Shantams of this world. When you see them ,dont you notice how your eyes light up at the poor shivering nostalgic thing.But for a lucky strike , you think it could have been you. Consider how lucky are you, not to have to write so imaginatively about things that have no correspondence in constructed thought and then spare a thought for all those who suffer from constant shallow drivel ,at this time of year.
Constantly hungry since lunchtime, and illegible even in their own language, these poor wretches are begging you this Xmas to listen to them and their unfulfilled religious urges.
So this Xmas why not spare a thought for the Shantams in your neighbourhood and spare them a smile…then in goodly Xmas spirit invite them into your home.. make them happy … put on a red robe and a funny white beard and chortle yo ho ho… and change a simple homely xmas into a devotional event with people who shouldn’t
be videoed while trying to express themselves in strangely embarassing body movements which should only be reserved for wedding parties, usually.
Go on… and remember to Post-Osho, early this Xmas
Thank you.
Sunpat news
When the tree of life and times around Osho was being chopped by the big Boss, some branches were planted by the Indian chapter of break away Sannyas group in Delhi..This celebration video is at Oshodham, central point of Osho Friends International, publishors of Osho world magazine.
I feel it is a right of the wstern seekers who go to Pune not because it has a gym and Jacuuzi but they know it has become a place of pilgrimage.
Thta is why i have written again and again, call Osho Pune by any name, including Osho international Bus station, still people will come because it has Heritage, it soothes the heart to feel, once Osho presided the gatherings from this place.
Again it is a people´s choice, whether they want to join in such emotional singing or not..nobody imposes any thing, but to take the choice away from People is a bigining of priesthood, Some good intentioned monk decides about the choices for the people.
It is one of the myth coming out of cultural prototypes, that without the highheadedness of western brotherhood of three four people, Indians will turn the ahsram into some another ahsram with flowers, pictures, coconuts, long Q´s for darshans.
If one sees the website of Ramana Maharishi, it becomes clear it has become another Hindu shrine based on Puja” kind of thing. Amma or Sri Bhwgwan or Sri Ravi Shankar and others carry their Hinduism on their sleeves and for heads.
Only Osho has come out from the grip of collective power of hinduism and this one can see in any small Osho centre any where in the country, no one does Puja around Osho´s photo, no one prays around His photo for better job, more money, stable marriage life, though it is a common refrain to go on surrundering the blessings to the grace of the Master..
Focus is only on Osho´s discourses, daily meditation and five Osho festivals..
When the very basic honesty becomes the casuality, i don´t think birds with higher wisdom will ever land on that place..
How we carry our collective mind in us, becomes clear at the times of conflict.
Normally, UK and USA are brothers in arms. But in the famous murder case revolving around the accused “Foxy knoxy”, one can see, how Americans are reacting, they cannot digest the thought that this highly photogenic girl can kill her British friend because of some sexual deviation gone wrong in Italy.
In an another recent case, where an indian bride was kidnapped and murdered by the goons in South Africa, how that crime ridden country is supporting the idea that her UK husbad of Indian origin must have hired them for this sinister crime.
In sannyas too, east west divide becomes obvious on day to day basis. Just because other is different, does not make them wrong. atleast Sannyasins who use and practise “Awareness” can act bit differently.
So when Garimo, an Australian( i suppose) says too, that people should write with their open identity…it will land bit smoothly to the hearts of frank, Martyn, Bubbie and company…
Martyn, thanks for posting your touching and very compassionate comment about helping the Shantams of this world. You are of course absolutely right. My problem in Ibiza is that it is difficult to find people as stupid as Shantam to help.
I’ve decided to take one of my wife’s delicious cheese cakes over to a farm on a hill nearby. There are two men there who are the product of incest gone wrong. Complete imbecilies who are going to love eating the cake…no forks…they don’t know how to use them.
While we are at it, why not give a mention to those poor folk like Shahriar, Anugrah and Chinmaya, people who, through no fault of their own, are unable to think and speak coherently due to being born with defect brains…it is so tragic. I have to stop now…my tears are making the screen go all blurry.
Shantam you ask, Did Punjaji has also air condtion in his room?
No he had a fan. This question arises because of a true story I told for Shahriar about sniffing coke with Osho. Be that as it may, it does bring to mind another true story concerning Poonjaji.
It was Christmas day after satsang that I went round to Poonjaji’s small house in Lucknow. I was alone with him. Above our heads a bug-splattered fan moved the turbid air.
Poonjaji had just finished telling me how I was almost as enlightened as he was.
‘Yes, I know that,’ I said, somewhat arrogantly, ‘But what is the true nature of enlightenment?’
Papaji bent forward and whispered in my ear, ‘Do you have a lighter you can lend me?’
I’d recently taken to smoking Ganesh beedies and passed my lighter to the old man, who was sitting on a rickety wooden chair that looked like it might collapse at any moment.
‘Are you watching?’ the master asked.
‘Yes, Papaji, I am,’ I answered.
The old man lifted the right cheek of his huge arse and let off a resounding fart that sounded like a basoon. He then lit the lighter and the gas caught fire. There was a whoosh of flame and my eyebrows were singed off. I was thunderstruck.
Papaji laughed and said, ‘Now do you get it?’
I bowed down and touched the master’s feet and in that moment…
I have to stop now, I’m becoming too emotional….even though I am beyond all that…
Coke with Osho, Personal sitting with Punja ji..Lokesh, must be travelling all the remote corners of the earth with his Gospals?
May be the glimpses were wraped in the instuctions the way Pharma majors give samples, ” Only for personal use. Not for resale.”
shantam… i admit it ok… prem martyn is not my real name.. .
I have crumbled under the weight of allegations arising from numerous enquiries.
i cannot defend myself with evasions of simple truths…
I am forced to tell you now the truth
…….
I am not really who you think I am, but who osho said I am .. but are you really as stupid as you demonstrate or is it a cover for your deeper ermm …stupidity…? the public have a right to know , even in these daily ding dongs you are a discounted package in the economy store of life.I have a hard time convincing my social network we mutually blog. They think you are virtually impossible.
but because of john lennon and the vegetarian beatles i can truly say this is true…..and includes you…
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Martyn, for all we know that little guitarist could be John Lennon reassembled. Charming.
aye
music
laughter
and the beloved
in feminine form…
….
….truth
shantam… i admit it ok… prem martyn is not my real name.. .
Good. what is the real name….Real real Sannyas name?
Swami (Ma)……………………….
PS- Every post for Martyn is addressed to you also.
Bubbie seems to be the case beyond boarders…
Shantam, Osho wants me to be a channel for him to send a personal message to you.
I will now go in to a self-induced trance and let Osho speak through me. When he is finished I will hit the sumit comment button without reading the message.
Beloved Shantam, it is time for you to move beyond the world of name and form. In this world, whatsoever is in existence cannot become non-existent. Now the
scientists also agree that whatsoever ‘is’
cannot be destroyed, and whatsoever ‘is not’
cannot be created. All that happens is only a
transformation of form, a change of form but
nothing is destroyed or created. You blow out
a lamp and the flame is extinguished, but
where does it go? It cannot be destroyed, that
is not possible. Even if you want to , it is not
possible. Only that which was not really there
but which only appeared to be there can be
destroyed; whatsoever is really there cannot
be destroyed…
Thank you beloved Lokesh for allowing me to use your body as a vehicle in order to speak to Shantam, my most stupid disciple.
bubbie , i think you’ll find that on a saturday night you are not suffering from the medical condition known as ‘pickled brain’, but according to the Sheriffs office charge sheet, the legal condition known as ‘arrested development’. Im afraid that the officers do not recognise your form of latihan , and therfore cannot unfortunately ‘let you go’.Not until you wise up or throw up, whichever is the sooner.
skol, locheim
prem martyn is not my real name…
thats all you need to know shantam i agree with you for once.. to make you happy…
but i’m a big fibber…
now what is true?
am i lying that i’m a liar?
was kafka correct…
how will you know ?
as an astrological lawyer.. you should pursue astronomical truths….
and not dawdle in the subjective preconceptions of a belief…
but i might be lying…
about the fact.. so as to indicate a truth…
do you know what though…
you are nuts
.. just tap your head…if it makes a sound…thats is proof of the nutshell’s emptiness
simple truth detection
shantam.. …
i am not my name…
..which has put me in an altered state really today.. wow.. nice…
and now this
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shantam..
i plead innocent to your charge
but you’re a ‘lawyer’ ??????
How to edit your posts, Shantam:
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More English instruction, Shantam…
Please note esp from 2m35s…
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How to deal with Shantam…
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So when Garimo, an Australian( i suppose) says too, that people should write with their open identity…it will land bit smoothly to the hearts of frank, Martyn, Bubbie and company…”
Not Australian garimo said no such thing.
He said not knowing what is really real or not… naming it is not so important.
He said nothing about what others should do or not do in his report. You Shantam seem to choose to understand what fits your story. Real or unreal isn’t so important as long as it cat fit in the story you tell.
Whenever i need guidance in dealing with shantam, they’re the one turn to… not very often though. tuff tittie
shantam’s been trying to find out everyone’s real name for over a year… can’t take no for an answer… can’t take a hint?
garimo crawls out from (down) under his rock….what, the skanks in Byron Bay are getting too worn out to shag anymore?
Shantam- i hope you took notes while watching those vids. there will be a test on the material later…. “like sperm being thrown on a mango in a forest, if there is no one around, does it matter if osho claps with one hand?”
hilarious monty python clip, marty, on the greeks vs. germans in the Philosophers match. classic. great to see Karl Marx as the sub who flubbed. i laughed my ennui off.
thanks to all for the fun comments today… as its sunday , we can leave metaphysical enquiry to the religionists… and kick back and enjoy being unformed and imprecise before the named days of the week seek to reassemble our labours into impertinent gods.
toot toot
Nice video martyn. Since this is an all male team, Ayn Rand would no doubt be a cheerleader for the greeks.
and shahriar a cheerleader for the Shah or maybe the grand ayatollah… both interchangeable.
P.M. –we’re only thinking of you when we post here…. boop boop
Does anyone on sannyasnews knows where the greek Ma Mukta is these days.
Last news i heard about her that she was sick and had health issues in pune in 2009.
thanks to everyone here
Anugrah, the one person who most definitly will be unclear about where Mukta is, is Mukta herself. Word is she has developed Alzheimers.
Lokesh, you have given a good try to channel Osho…but the words and the style, you can read yourself…
It is not, not not Osho but some Advaita teacher….
Blood is red for the naked eyes, look from a microscope, and there many blood groups….
Even with best intentions one can kill the patient, if false blood is transfused..
MAy be this is one of the reason, medical science has gone beyond frontiers, microscopic observations and persistent urge for investigation..whereas in the world of inner scinece, every thing is mixed with everything…the way guests in fat Indian weddings mix every food item on a single plate…
In connection with the theme of the thread..Commune Sannyasin..
Many western female celebrities and wives of politicians wear Indian dress for a recreational evening, they give good photos to the media. Lady Diana, Blair or Brown´s wife in Punjabi dresses, Liz Hurley in “Boobs Darshan” Sari..
Does it mean..these dresses are their cultural presentation, their signature clothes.. How much space they should get in the their Biography…
May be just Once Osho used the word RESORT in some context…and the Control freaks propagated this as they are the real boobs of Pamela Anderson..
From the very beginning Osho was clear about the mystery school and the commune. Hundreds of hours of talks are available and his effort..untiring effort.
Was there a single one or is there a single one in our time, who spoke and propagated a new way of living and relating….
Does his people have no sense of human pride integrity, and ego flexibility to stand for the complete package..where mystery school and communes are integral part..Definitely hundreds of road blocks will be on the way..but is this not the way from the time an Amoeba started the journey to be a human and than go beyond that too..
What a great achievement..children of Mount Everest conquerors are happy to be tourist book sellers before the Bus Stations.For sure book shop is air conditioned and life span has increased!
Thanks to information technology..Osho cut pieces on facebook etc. have become so prominent as the Tibetan style of colored triangle piece of clothes on a long rope. Looks nice, so so!
No need to walk in the jungles to bring first alphabets and than Bible to the people. Osho´new age missionaries can get the same satisfaction as Christian preachers once did in their life long journeys…
Shantam you say, ‘Lokesh, you have given a good try to channel Osho…but the words and the style, you can read yourself…
It is not, not not Osho but some Advaita teacher…’
As it happens I copied and pasted the quote and it is from Osho. Which only goes to show…. Well, I’ll leave taht for you to work out. And please don’t ask me from what discourse it is, because I don’t know. I think it was Union Mystica, but not hundred percent sure,
Here is the link….I only added the first sentence…..but you still don’t realize that what I channeled is true, which was the whole point in the first place.
http://www.livingworkshop.net/ob-behindathousand.html
the editors of sunshine news wish to point out that postings here by the name ‘shantam’ contain the endlessly repetitive ‘idiot’ trojan virus.
in case you see the name skip over it as it can easily steal a lot of your time, and fill your day up with useless garbage..
bubbie …i do it out of love…..
( i’m professionally trained in it )
going back to parmartha’s post….
our parents fought the war..
freud calmed everyone down a bit
and then we the post bohemians wanted permanent salvation in the form of endless occupation with a community totally insanely lovingly devoted to ……. nothingness
as far as things go you can be endlessly occupied with nothing for a very long time… look at shantam….
and the product of this occupation is …
well lots of something… but not necessarily of any use to anyone else who isnt also looking for nothing…
its for the cognoscenti….
like er… fresh air… free but also available in trainings up and down the country….in ashrams etc .. all puporting to offer nothing for something..
.not as nature intended something for nothing…..
we are now in the post post post osho phase where the bills are coming in and we have to wrap things up fast at the last chance corral…
it was over a long time ago… now the removal men are calling….to empty the house.. and leave us with nothing…. but a fine house it was…and who needs a permanent house anyway… even the earth isn’t ..
fine by me…
Shantam…a virus…yup. I reckon it is and if it gets in your system it can destroy brain cells.
Few people can dance naked in the room of mad house claiming to be the master genius, i leave to the discreation of the readers, who they feel is of sound mind here at this site.
The white guys in the ashram and at sannyasnews also shows how important is the shift in the dynamics of the west.
More and more women are taking the lead because the men have lost their rational and intuitive brain capacity, even Osho could not inject in them some sanity..
Lokesh, look at the link you have posted.
Even a fulll quotation you are unable to cut and paste in its entirity.
If out of context things can be productive, Gays can have babies too.
An old joke i remember. A man said on the phone, ” Hallo, it is 3365″.
The voice on the other end replied, ” Sorry for inconvinience. I wanted to speak with my friend at 3366. Can you please, give the message to your neighbour that martyn just called.”
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we are now in the post post post osho phase where the bills are coming in and we have to wrap things up fast at the last chance corral…
it was over a long time ago… now the removal men are calling….to empty the house.. and leave us with nothing…. but a fine house it was…and who needs a permanent house anyway… even the earth isn’t ..
fine by me…
Thus spoke some unknown British.
What a wonderful Advaita realisation from a man, who is holding his modesty under the wraps of a false name.
IF it is really a post post post Osho Phase
The Joint reward of most white colored Killing goes to the representatives of
Britain and Canada.
Vatican will decorate them with Saint for their great service to the Christian Church.
But yes..it is a post post post Osho phase, as far as West is concerned.
As i have written again and again. Sannyas was a one generation affair with the west, clinging with the last straw on the banks of Pune River…
Once that straw will be sweeped away by the currents of Time, a new phase with new understanding can start…
West will be always an integral part of Osho´s movement, but as a joint venture of grass root sannyasins and not as a private limted company..
i reject your accusation sir of falsity .. and i challenge you to an argument…
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Satya Deva…The skit with the title, Rude and polite was good as a mirror.
Thanks
I did not notice in the aftrenoon that Lokesh´s link to Osho quotation was from the Osho´s bob website.
To watch this site after few months was a nice experience, site has become more alive with photos.
It is really an humbling experience to feel that Bob is a regular contributor at sannyasnews.
The way single handedly he is maintaining the site and that too in Chineese also..It is worth calling Maritocracy…
In an right atmosphare, bunch of devendras and Parmods are easily to be replaced by someone like Bob at the very roots of the organisation..
It also shows..corporate culture is good in the sphare of goods and sevices..Religion and spirituality is a matter of passion and devotion.. these two things are the petrol and the diesel..
But very funny too, eh, Shantam?!
The video I mean…
Stand up comedy shows are very new trend on Indian television. Just like roads and bridges and technology, Indians are quite adaptable to steal the concepts and create one´s own mixture.
Thanks to the postings at sannyasnews, i am getting the taste of Original comedies..it will surely improve my English.
‘Monty Python’ tv series were of the late 60′s/early 70′s…Not ‘stand-up’ comedy, it was created in the studio.
Perhaps you should try to see more, Shantam, including their films?
‘Life of Brian’ might be a good one for you, being a send-up of the Christian religion….
Shantam says: ‘because the men have lost their rational and intuitive brain capacity, even Osho could not inject in them some sanity.’
An interesting reflection.
Applicable though to all religiose bullshine, Shantam.
Yes, you should definitely make a point of seeing it, it’ll do you more good than trying to argue the toss with everyone here (hopefully)….
But Lokesh, Shantam is a most interesting case – er, I mean, person….
Lokesh leaves always the proof, how cut pieces of omissions and comssions can change the meaning.
My dear, i was not saying about men in general but whitemen in particular. The complete paragraph is here- I am not sarcastic, this is the way, other half of life is paying back.
The white guys in the ashram and at sannyasnews also shows how important is the shift in the dynamics of the west.
More and more women are taking the lead because the men have lost their rational and intuitive brain capacity, even Osho could not inject in them some sanity..
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/environment/developmental-issues/No-toilets-costs-India-54-billion-annually-World-Bank/articleshow/7134735.cms
News, which will make some American with fictitous name Bubbie Happy after a hard day work of collecting coins..
shantam:
The white guys in the ashram and at sannyasnews also shows how important is the shift in the dynamics of the west.
More and more women are taking the lead because the men have lost their rational and intuitive brain capacity, even Osho could not inject in them some sanity..
SD:
Got a mirror handy, Shantam?
In keeping with the main articles focus on the exposition of the cunning and criminal (Sheela and her band of thugs), the ravenous and excitable (those who saw but did not see), and the meek, naïve, and needy (the vast majority), the world now has Swami Asstranged Osho WikiDumpster and his band of righteous saviours.
For all those who support Swami Assange, bare in mind the following.
In a television interview he demonstrated a deep and personal animosity towards the United States. The so called founding vision of Wikileaks is in direct opposition to what Mr Assange actually is aiming to achieve with the dumping of classified US documents. When asked whether he was concerned that this might lead to a closing of ranks and therefore work against the supposed aim of transparency, he stated irrevocably that his aim with respect to the US was to cause a kind of constriction in information flow. This inhibiting of information flow will lead to inefficiencies and stifling of effectiveness of the US. This was what he stated. Hence with respect to the US, Assange’s intended aims are in direct contradiction to what he supposedly and piously claims as his contribution to the betterment of humanity.
Mr Assange knows the value of transparency, and is actually trying to shut this down within and between different elements of the US government. Ironically it was one of the key findings from “9/11” that information was not shared freely enough so that enough of the isolated pockets of information could become grouped together by someone (or some computer) to create actionable intelligence. Hence an ideological shift towards freedom of information was enacted. This led to the increased risk of information being used for malicious purposes. That is what has happened.
In a radio interview a key supporter of Assange was asked a very obvious question. There are people identified in these documents – whether by name or lengthy personal details – that have either undertaken certain activities or channelled specific information. This refers to people in parts of the world – such as far Eastern Europe, Iran, and other Middle-East countries – that have had a very dark history of human rights abuses. So the obvious question is, surely this puts lives at risk! Now in the radio interview, the respondent actually acknowledged this blatantly obvious fact, yet sought to put this in a context that made it justified. The context was that the invasion of Iraq was illegal, and look at the endless carnage caused there. The putting of lives at risk in the dump of classified information is almost nothing in comparison.
There is something deeply sinister in this logic. What is the benefit of naming these people and putting their lives (or the lives of their relatives) at risk? It is argued that Assange asked the US for help in trawling through the records to remove such information. That the US declined to help does not justify not taking the time to remove this information. If at the time the task was too large, than why not do it step by step, releasing smaller amounts of screened documents? There was no dead-line that I am aware was imposed on Wikileaks. Assange was eager for a head-line and was willing to put people’s lives at risk for it.
Ask any terrorist why they are blowing up innocent people and they will tell you it is because of people being killed in places like Iraq and Afghanistan. Where this logic falls down is in understanding the actual cause(s) of those deaths. Terrorists do not know (beyond reasonable doubt) what the cause actually is. In most cases it is for them simply a boiling rage, and a willingness to believe based on this rage. Any facts or reasoning get in the way of venting their rage. The context however is that some country or another is killing ‘my’ people and I will exact revenge. This is the same logic as that purported in the radio interview in support of Assange. If a person has in some way been associated with the US, it is OK to put their lives at risk because the US has killed so many Iraqi (or other) citizens. It is taking a stand and taking responsibility. Actually it is none of this and it is the mentality of a terrorist.
Assange’s stance is no different to any terrorist that targets the United States, Islamic extremist sannyasin or otherwise.
The example of the attack helicopter incident in Baghdad was mentioned here on this site. It is not surprising that this has been eaten up by ignorant people here and the world over. It is again an example of the danger of communications media used maliciously and absorbed via ignorance. Everything about the incident was already known publicly, so much so that the video footage showed absolutely nothing new. You would surely think that if there was some sort of whistle-blowing that something new would turn up. However, like all the other Wikileaks’dumps, it does not provide useful information. What it does do however is very important to understand if you want to understand what happened at The Ranch, and what is happening at The Resort.
Wikileaks introduced the video footage within a specific setting. They did not set out all the facts previously known about the incident. What they did was use specific text labelling and audio insertion that gave the viewer a context for what they were seeing. This context did not give a fair representation of the circumstances, and would naturally have the effect of people coming to a misinformed opinion of the incident. The point is that if you are passively viewing the footage than you unknowingly accept Wikileaks slant on the video. It is a misrepresentation of the truth of the incident and you will come to have biased and incomplete understanding. Furthermore, if you also have a preformed opinion of the US, then you will be eager for your view to be fulfilled. Hence you will have a desire to see the video footage in a biased light, and so will absorb the Wikileaks sub-text with delight. Finally, if you have a rage suppressed in your being, then you will hardly notice the Wikileaks sub-text, see the actual video footage with no sense of objectivity (as if almost blind), and would have then completed your transition into jihad as a holy warrior. All care of Wikileaks.
Knowing all the surrounding facts, and a viewing of the video footage, it is reasonable to form the view that it was at least in the realm of possibility that it was a tragic accident. However if you skip the circumstances and view the video footage complete with Wikileaks lead into it, you would be much more likely to form the view that it was sinister and intentional. If you add up a series of such situations based on propaganda you may form a view which is a great big and dangerous lie. You, and indeed perhaps a collectively hypnotised country, could easily act based on such a fabrication.
Assange clearly has the predisposition of a personal vendetta against the US, and he collects information and releases it in a manner that either narrows its perspective or clouds its objectivity. The additional mass dumping of useless rubbish is a sensory overload of trash. It reminds me of this website most of the time. The putting of people’s lives at risk is either collateral damage or justified through criminal association. I call it in summary the creation of a false terrorist ideology.
Essentially what Wikileaks has done is introduce information as propaganda. It is not tending towards objectivity and roundness in perspective, and more so, it actually has an element introduced into it to intentionally misrepresent the truth. If you want to know why people stayed on in The Ranch, just have a look at the way people consume Wikileaks propaganda. People spread information that is tainted by misunderstandings that support a predisposed way of seeing things. Other people consume this misrepresentation of the truth either out of unawareness (passive absorption), or because they are also preconditioned to see things this way. Put this two factors together, and give it an emotionally charged undercurrent, and we have the setting for terrorism and war. The road to hell is paved with good (and bad) intentions based on ignorance and inattentiveness.
If you want to know the truth about something you need to be highly alert and perceptive, you need to became acquainted with as much of the plethora of facts available as possible, and you ultimately need to allow the information objectively perceived to settle into an understanding that is not infringed upon through manipulation of the mind by powerful and usually unconscious emotions (rage being one rather important one).
What exactly did the Wikileaks information dump achieve in the positive? Well yes it got many headlines and a great following of friends. Short of the possibility of offending a country’s collective citizens, the information achieves very little other than creating confusing gossip. If you read any global coverage newspaper regularly and had a bit of common sense, then nothing released would have come as a surprise. Also, if you continue to pay attention to the leaks you will simply get confused or adopt a misinformed position, as the leaks are piecemeal and are not the assimilation of information into policy (formal or otherwise).
People do not seem to get that there is nothing whistling in the whistle-blowing from Wikileaks. There is nothing frightfully new or scandalous.
The US is painted by many countries as evil. All the information does is show that this is not the case. The US undertakes diplomacy in a manner which its countries citizens (and its allies) would have expected. Diplomats provide frank personal assessments of other countries and their key players. That is an inherent element of their job. There has been no glaring breach of trust, and nor has there been an exposé of evil. There is global political gossip that is good for a trashy news headline if you are into that sort of thing, but are there any surprises?
What do you think a similar dump about North Korea, Burma, Iran, and China (and the Ivory Coast too) would look like?
hey buster wrong blog….
fuck off
psycho…
that was a joke….
but this isn’t
really please fuck off…
Hi detective ,
last 2 and 1/2 i was trying to read your post of Dec 20, 2010 at 8:56 pm.
i just loved it because it made my mind very very tired and about to put me to sleep now. any way what was main point , please explain in short , i really like to read when i wake up
“sit on my face and tell me that you love me… I’ll sit on your face and I’ll tell you how i feel”… Monty Python @ the Hollywood Bowl…. hey shantam- if you and your Swiss girlfriend sang that 50x a day for 30 days both of you might see the light… or the crack of dawn- whichever comes first.
Shantam i’m starting a porta-potting business in India, to compensate for the lack of toilets, or is that oilets? 1 rupee per minute… now that’s a lot of cash considering all of those millions with the runs…. if you’re still looking for work, I’ll hire you to clean up the overflow… 10 rupees per hour, lots of overtime… plus medical benefits and sick days(you’ll need them). i’m working on a way to recycle all the of plastic in the landfills, to turn plastic into toilet paper… the technology is almost there… it’s still a little rough on the tush though… would you like to be a product tester, shantam? … the pay is a little better.
P.M. — well said..
Swami Detective(Dick)… pops out from another rock…i image he must have been searching high and low for important facts and figures for shit HE considers important… Well, to flatten your ego a bit, you’re yesterdays news…. not important, trivial… just about on the same level as Shantam’s nutty mutterings… yes, wrong blog…. and fuck off… and by the way… Long Live Wikileaks!!!! you turd
Lengthy prose, but detective has a good knack to look at the not convenient picture. When Asaange is treated as Massiah, it is a relief to see the other aspect.
Go on writing, Swami.
My choice for Time magazine´s man of the year award is still for Mr. Assange…He has done a good job to kick the close frontiers by blowing off the diplomatic immunity.
I dig Mr Assange. Unlike most politicians, the man looks like someone I could be friends with.
I also dig Swami Detective’s take on things. Well thought out and thought-provoking. Osho used to say that he wanted his sannyasins to provoke the divine in each other, not more thoughts. Therefore Martyn has a point…wrong blog, man. Me? I’m cool with it. Then again , there is a lot of other types of provoking going on here that has nothing to do with the divine. The thing is it is good for a healthy laugh. Wikileaks is a serious business. Shantamleaks is far more entertaining, with the added plus that he wears chuddies. Jesus…what is that terrible stink coming out of my laptop….it smells like…like…soiled chuddies. I’m outta hear. I just realized that Shantamleaks has a serious side also. Where is my puke bucket?
sure go ahead…but sherlock is a compulsive obsessive.. who has never surrendered anything to anyone.. how do i know….he’s all muscle…
his words dont play out…..
or in…
or up
but down..
control freak…
some of us left behind what he represents …..
undiluted unaesthetic
tension…..
self gratifying
overwhelm
and therefore irrelevant to what he aspires to originate from ….
perceptive revelation
is less
not more
and
perception requires engagement..
help we need frank….
Re the Wikileaks/Assange business and Sw Detective’s outrage, well, there are at least two sides to all such questions but frankly, I see this affair as further evidence of the erosion of the moral authority of the US, which, with its probable increasingly rapid descent into economic decline, gives out further signals of the beginning of the end of this phase of our so-called ‘civilisation’.
I see this process as pretty well inevitable, so taking sides over an issue like this is ultimately futile, wherever you decide to stand. But Instinctively, my sympathies lie with Assange, indeed a very brave man – although perhaps in some respects, somewhat misguided – to take on the might of America.
He’s basically ‘had it’ though, whether he’s shipped over to face almost certainly trumped-up charges in Sweden and/or extradited to the States.
Still, one hell of a legal battle awaits , with any case brought by the US bound to cause huge uproar and more than likely, a great deal of civil disturbance. ‘Now is the winter of our discontent’ – an age of violent public demos is beginning again…
The US will somehow eventually get their man though, that’s surely a racing certainty. Assange, unfortunately, is now just ‘a dead man walking’.
“Shantamleaks” from the brain, now pass the eggnog, and don’t forget the bourbon.
and he not only has taken on America, but also China… now he’s got those commie, pinko, dictators after him also. Looking at how they reacted to a jailed pro-democracy advocate receiving a Noble Peace prize, i can only imagine what’s in store for Assange… poor bastard!!! i can only wish him good luck and a sip from my schnapps bottle… olay!!
oh yeah… don’t drop the soap when you’re in jail.
78 Percent of Americans Doubt Evolution
President Obama’s new science guidelines couldn’t come soon enough: A new Gallup poll shows 78 percent of Americans doubt the traditional scientific view of evolution: 40 percent of Americans believe that God created mankind 10,000 years ago; another 38 percent believe in intelligent design. Just 16 percent, meanwhile, believe in the scientific view of “secular evolution”—though that’s up from a mere 9 percent in 1982.
How such a culture could have tolrated Osho in early 90´s. it is very much possible that the collective mind of Americans will feel no guilt to silence Osho like a Noisy rat..
Yet..blame lies equally on the people who dragged Osho into a dream land, must have sold the idea with smart pills in the brain.
These people are still around..
help we need frank….
Why Martyn needs Frank… Is it not part of your own personality?
One fake identity needs another fake identity…Fuck the brothers!
If Frank is really another person, must be having more self respect than the rats called martyn and bubbie.. Truely shameless bastards …
A big part of the world is supporting Mr. Assange because humanity is asking for more transparanacy, more honesty. We want to know who is deciding about our collective affairs…though on a certain level America is already a symbol of transparent poltical system compared to other nations…
What makes me wonder is basic lack of openness and transparanacy around Osho´s people. The Master who was speaking in a open gathering about the non existance of God, the most profound sysmbol humanity ever created, as if God was suppose to be a tree on the backyards of our gardens, many of his people like the bunch of run away cowards are operating under the fullbody Burqa…
Not just here at sannyasnews..but on the level of Pune too.. It is easier to write a mail for an AMerican citizen to its president but almost Impossible to reach the chairman of Osho´s ashram…
Is there some logic?
http://www.gallup.com/poll/145286/Four-Americans-Believe-Strict-Creationism.aspx
bubbie.. i think you might have to hand over the title of kurtz….as nothingness has proved too light a burden for others to carry.. we may now be descending into conceptual hell care of sherlock…..
acres of nothingness seemingly filled with somethingness
and no light at the end of the tunnel
Grown adults will cry ‘ i want my mammon ‘
as they said once in the society of the spectacle.. you get what you pay for….
mark you (or is that marcuse) i really have no idea where this guy sherlock is coming (eric) Fromm…
Some would say he’s ( wilhelm ) reich or right on the button
Personally i’m sure he’s a right baskerville case sniffing around and scaring people with words…long into the night(of the long knives) to fashion or fascist some attention lacking in his divided self or maybe knot.But you’d need to be a laing way from home to understand that.
Dare ( or Derrida) i say it…the guy has not been oshown the way to get home…in fact he seems quite deluded ( or deleuzed) by the sound of his own large egharte…
If you dont give him the time of day, he’ll be back on medication soon , and no-one will listen little-man any more….to his fritz perle’s of wisdom
I dont think I’ve ever sunk so lowen in my opinion about an sn writer, although I could shariar with you a few more names. Whether I should or shant-am is anyone’s guess.Bhagwan’s thing for sure, if it carries on like this I’m taking an early holiday and Sherlock can xm’as.
Martyn have a good Xmas holidays with your another countrepart Bubbie, instead send your real self as writer at sannyasnews.
May be this real self is called Mr. David Nunn or Swami Deva Gopala or simply what so ever..
I think both of them have done enough exercise of Who am I, Who am I???
shantam.. i keep saying you are making false accusations…and thats best kept for easter…xmas is a time of peace and goodwill…..
Shantam says, 78 Percent of Americans Doubt Evolution.
Hardly surprising with idiots like you wondering around in their underwear. And then the champ swings it round and reaches this incredible conclussion…and I do mean incredible: How such a culture could have tolrated Osho in early 90´s.????
This is one-sided to the point of ridiculousness. It is hardly worth commenting on, but Shantam is the champion chump so therefore I have to say.
You simply don’t get it do you? America’s attitude towards Osho has more to do with what his community did while based in Oreagon than anything Osho said. You think it would be different in Freiburg? Why not nip round to the local Macdonalds and hang out with your pals Sam and Ella then see how long it is before the locals have something to say about the level of your evolution, you incredibly stupid idiot!
Where are false accusations, my brother???
Who is the real man woman person behind the name prem martyn?
If for example someone wants to file a suit of defamation on behalf of Osho or if someone wants to file a suite of hurt religious feelings against the writer, who has used the derogatory remarks against His master..what will be the name of the defendent???
Give authenticity to your words..because this honesty you expect from the political and religious establishments..
you guys are not teens who want to vandalise with the caps on their faces?
It is a Xmas time..
Live goodwill, live honesty, live peace…
World needs this.
Ps- this is for Bubbie and frank too..
Lokesh cannot even read properly, before he draws conclusion..
i wonder how much distance to the thoughts, you have learnt form the personal coaching classes of Osho and Punja Ji?
Shantam DOES NOT says, 78 Percent of Americans Doubt Evolution.
it is a conclusion of a Gallup poll
A new Gallup poll shows 78 percent of Americans doubt the traditional scientific view of evolution..
Just 10 minutes later Garimo has even send the link of complete poll.
If i repeat myself, in a very clear language i have written about the tendency to blame others even Osho has done it..
One cannot resolve the criminal and illegal activities..
but don´t be so fool to think this is the only reason..Osho´s reputation had reached US soil before Him.
The technological land with very primitive belief system would never have tolerated the Anti Christ. Even with all the legal formalities done, the people behind the system would have used all the means to destroy Osho..
and one can be sure..in the sannyas community many were planted people by CIA kind of organisation, who could get close access to Osho.
They found out very easily, if Napoleon was afraid from cats…The Bhagwan loves expansive cars and watches..Good life with other people´s money is His weekness.
Buy Him a Rolls Royce and you are in his think tank. So easy to spoil his lightning bulbs…
shantam.. i dont want you to sit on my face-book…
i guess you must be happy the internet is full of people using their ‘real’ names.. it must come as a shock when someone really does..
as i’ve said before shanam
you want the truth ?.. you can’t handle the truth….
sorry i meant shatnam
I have no intention to sit on your facebook, Martyn..
But to be authentic on the platform where thoughts are raised and you get all the freedom to write any bullshit.
Who knows some one wants to silence you with force..they have also the right to know, who the fuck you are.
Bubbie, Frank, martyn..big mouths maybe with big pricks..but the soul more afraid than mouse.
They put all their mouse shit everywhere and on everybody..and yet more clever than mouse..
Liberty without consequences…
Is this anarchism..?
On some level, i have so much difference of opinion with Satya Deva and Lokesh as it is with Frank, Bubbie and co.
So what..
may be this is also one of the small stream leading towards divine discontentment.
But what i appreciate is that both of these fellows are not using a clever web of fictitious identity.
Thoughts and feelings are honest.
On the other side, fackies with their over the edge commentaries in strong words which can make the holes in many readers feelings..
No..Sir, i won´t support the white men holding Taliban guns, shooting words by hiding in a cave..
A third extract from ‘Survivors’ Stories: an Enlightening Journey through the Differing Lives of Child Abuse Survivors’ by Morven Fyfe. The book is available at amazon.co.uk and amazon.com for about 12 UK pounds…
“My father’s thoughts and feelings were everything, whereas mine meant nothing. Every gesture was underpinned with the threat of violence. However rare the beatings were, the threat was there all the time. One beating my father gave me with his hand on my backside was really terrible. Soon after, Peggy Wilks, a family friend came into my bedroom and saw me crying and asked why. My father said, “We had a little disagreement.” I really resented his hiding what he had done to me. My parents wanted complete obedience and domination. I can’t remember much in detail before I was seven years old; however I was shouted at a lot. I remember my mother saying, “You better stop that or I’ll slosh you into next week.” And she would say “If you don’t be quiet I’m going to go away and never come back.” She frequently threatened to drop me forever, and I’d often hear, “Shut up!” and “Be quiet!” from both parents.
My father loved to humiliate me privately and in public by saying “I forbid you to do that” without giving any explanation. I would feel worthless as he wielded power to destroy me just for its own sake. My parents loved to watch me cringe as they said to my face ‘Children should be seen and not heard.’
I think whenever my father set eyes on me he felt deep contempt. He used to give me terrible lectures that were always entirely in private. They started when I was eight or nine and today my mother doesn’t believe me. There was of course no question of answering back, as there was always the threat of violence.
I remember one lecture at the age of nine. I could actually feel my heart being broken. I knew that after that lecture I could never reach my true potential. I was often off sick from school then, but was told I had to study and improve my marks for the 11-plus examination. I felt the intensity of hatred in my father’s voice, and did improve my marks a lot, but entirely out of fear of him. My father’s voice made me feel like vermin. I felt putrid, like a stinking infectious disease. I had to better myself, because I was so sickening and detestable as I was. I went to school the day after that, feeling how my father had thwarted God’s plan for me, which would remain manifest in the ether, never in the world. I would still have my body, still continue living, but with my soul murdered.
As a child I just used to pray, “Please God, give me the opportunity to leave this terrible family.” When I thought about my father, I wished he were dead, and he was always in the back of my mind. I was pretty much aware that I was being treated much worse than anybody else, and I felt I was more than just unlucky, I felt cursed.
Sometimes just hating my parents was the only thing I could do, as if I couldn’t control myself to do otherwise. Once when I was eleven my father went to the dentist. He had had a wisdom tooth out and the it wouldn’t stop bleeding. He was in bed spitting out blood and saliva into a bucket, which was filling up. I hoped against hope that it would kill him. I prayed fervently “God, if it’s possible please grant me this wicked man’s death.” As an eleven-year-old child, I couldn’t understand why God did not grant this to me. Another time when I was twelve we were on holiday in Israel and our passports got stolen. Though I couldn’t say anything , I relished seeing my father upset, out of control and in trouble.
My mother always respected my father no matter what, and she thinks my pain is a lie, and blames me, the victim. I am really angry that my father never listened to me, and speaking to my mother is like talking to a brick wall. Recently I told her how terrified I was of Mr Reffold, how I spent years in constant acute fear of him. She laughed. Then she said “If you had told us, we would have done something about it. It is your fault for not telling us.” But I really don’t think they would have done anything because the school was everything for them. Since 1999 my mother has said explicitly to me that she despises me. I said “You hated me even when I was a baby” and she replied, “Yes, it is true, I did.” In the last few years my mother has called me a beast, a brute, a demon, a sod, a monster and a horrid man. She says she really hates me now, and she told me she enjoyed abusing me.”
wow how do you manage it shatnam… you have got some real powers of factuality going there… just extend the ‘ clever web of identity’ theme a bit further..would you i’m not sure i can distinguish your assessment criteria of false and real names…..
and this is really ground breaking stuff for me.. as i’ve checked everyones identity here on sn…you know how to do that.. you sit back and think who is real and who isn’t.. and there you have it.. or am i missing something…..??
btw .. my language use is the same conversationally with sannyassins and intimates of either sex….lots of the word cunt…and cock suck…plus the odd rhyming buddhist limerick…
you should feel privileged to be in my inner circle…
i told you i blame spiritual turettes syndrome…
and shakespeare…
very rich language english..
they are all descendants of pirates and vikings….thugs really…
alok sounds like a shit xmas again then me old abuse victim….
you’ve got nostalgia there mate..
here’s a clip for you
round the ear….
The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.
ALok john´s book excerpts make me think, how many of us became sannyasins because, ” My father was an asshole, my mother was cruel and cold, kind of syndrom.”
Osho in the bigining gave the same hope as tooth whitner ads on television tell, ” Try Sannyas for three weeks. otherwise money back guranteed.”
And now these people in their mid fifties are finding it difficult to accept that they have become a bit better than Mom and Dad..
Tooth whitner cream Sannyas was not that bad, if not as good as in the books ads.
Alok, as soon as I see another of your child abuse stories I scroll down. Boring. I’m probably not alone in feeling this way. Just to let you know. Nothing personal..simply not interested and I wonder why you would think anyone else on this blog would be.
Seems like children of happy families go to OXbridge, children of blissful familes go princeton and harvard…
Childrem of mediocre familes go into vocational courses and the children of garbage familes…. end up at the feet of Indian gurus..waiting for the ultimate jackpot… Enlightenment.
Shantam, you overestimate Osho’s importance in the scheme of things. He was not a great threat to the staus quo of American society…just another cult leader with a brightly clad group of followers, in the average American’s eye. Perhaps the CIA became a little interested at one point, I mean to say, some of Osho’s followers poisoned hundreds of American citizens etc. But he was not exactly on par with Osama.bin-Laden. As with much of your objective reports they are overblown by your childish need to make everything about Osho larger than life…the master of masters syndrome…a feeble ego trip.
Listen Borther..
Not a single truck or scooter stoped on the main Koregaon Park Road on the evening of 19th January 1990, when Osho´s body was taken to the buring ghat..
If passer byes bowed their heads with folded hands, it is with every dead body on the way.
Death is a great equalizer between rich and poor, master or a shop keeper.
So there is no over imporatnce of Osho in the scheme of things. Basically traffic on the earth is so fast, even if the longest serving queen or king dies, countries will not disintegrate..
Osho is not that important… Queen´s head on the stamps of British post have more worth…
But But but..
I have never seen heard or read a man other than OSHO, who have dared the centuries old religious establishments with His energy, intellect, reason and ambition….
As a disciple, as an Indian, where Master disciple relation is thought to be the most pious one…I am contented, utterly contented(contentment has noting to do with happiness) to change the course and curves of my life 27 years ago at the age of 20.
And out of this passion, when i write, i am sure.rain of love will pour on the barren swimming pool and Jacuzzi at 17, Koregaon park, Pune..
Financer doctor will be replaced by consortium of disciples.
Does it implies it will save the world ??
Not at all…
as i said in the bigining..every individual, every country, every institutuion is Too small to make such Big and bogus claims…
Osho is just a master, surely a rare kind but master of Masters..there was never any..there won´t be.
Shantam, I’ve often felt that you write whatever comes into your head at any given moment. (I know that I occasionally do, but not for the most part…only when I’m fooling around) Your latest comment reinforces that impression, because it directly contradicts so much of what you have written at other times. Osho is the master of masters etc
Right in the middle of it all you proclaim, ‘I am contented, utterly contented(contentment has noting to do with happiness’
The thing is Shantam that contentment is often used as a guage to figure out how happy a person is, therefore contentment has a lot to do with happiness…so what exactly are you talking about? Please explain if you wish to be given any credence.
i agree shantam…..
so we can stop arguing .. i mean really..without looking over each word.. i agree..
REALLY !!!
Now shall we discuss the price of Xmas decorations and something less demanding and just enjoy it all ?
okay todays subject is sherlock and alok…. are they twins separated at birth ?
by the way alok did i ever mention the coterie of paedophille teachers at my school…
i mean not with me.. but .. it made sports showers and rugby baths quite a challenge
ahh the british homosexual public school… what a tradition….
as we used to say a bird in the hand is worth two up the arse…
or
no-one cares about me……
….. would a cock in the mouth help?
Osho is the master of masters etc..
Lokesh..if you find my single comment where i have used “Master of masters” for Osho or any one else, i will send you the voucher for dinner for two( only Prita as second person, no one else) as my Xmas gift…
Rest is psycological question..Don´t know..exactly how much happiness plays the role in contentment level of the person..
Let me say in an honest example..
With my relation with Osho..i am happy and contented
(27 years, and not a single express highway coffeeshop called Satori*..and still contented)
I live in Germany..i am not happy but contented.
About my financial situation.. wounded but contented.. Because of misplaced trust in my cousin and conflict with my mother, i lost around half million Euroes worth of family inheritance and now live hand to mouth.
Still i will say..Contentment level is more with inner satisfaction than with only happiness…
A man who brings a road accident person to hospital will be contented even when he misses the date with his beloved.
A corrupt officer in India will be happy to buy one more property but may be less contented.
Before opening my mouth against the ashram authorities i was happy to be in Pune..now i am contented to be any where on the earth…
Life is a drama with many players…
you know guys.. its beginning to look a lot like xmas… everywhere i go… lala la
even on sunshine news… all that bickering mud slinging.. seems to be changing into….
a perfect day….
todays challenge how many song titles can you get into a post without really trying…
isn’t life great…
now we have shantam wishing peace and goodwill and a merry xmas… yet, just the other day shantam got really pissed off when i wished (kiddingly of course), everyone a merry xmas and a happy hanukkah… seems strange coming from an even more strange Mr. Softee head coolie. Your hatred for white people is obvious, i wonder why? Is it because the Aryans from 10,000 years ago that conquered your tribe left a permanent mark on your people- straight black hair. Are you bitter that you don’t have nappy hair like the africans? “There’s always something there to remind me”. by Naked Eyes, 1983, (remake). Now, getta long little donkey and go fuck yourself.
P.S. if you don’t know what a “Mr. Softee” is, just ask.
“Yet, blame lies equally on people who dragged osho into a dream land…” Shantam, you stupid twit!!! Nobody dragged Osho anywhere… suddenly personal responsibility disappears whenever it deals with osho… a big focus of his was taking personal responsibility for one’s own actions, yet shantam coolie-boy decides on a whim, it doesn’t apply to osho…. a past post mentioned that shantam twists facts to suit his needs… not only facts, but shantam the magician, creates out of the ether, imaginings, that any special effects expert would feel envious. I didn’t know brown acid could stay effective for so long… who’s your supplier?
Shantam says-” Someone throws sperm in my eye, yet no one sees. Did it actually happen then, says the hanging mango from a tree…”
Shantam says- “… big mouths with maybe big pricks…” Well thank you shantam I was wrong all along… your problem is that you have a tiny weenie… just jealous of us White guys with long schlongs and big balls, plenty of white women…… and nappy hair.
“Sit on my face-book and tell me that you love me, I’ll sit on your face-book and I’ll tell you how I feel”–( Monty- techno-Python-2010)
Alok john– about your post regarding “Survivor’s” stories… it think mama is in a serious case of denial…. a type that probably would never seek counseling, ’cause she thinks “all was/is well… now i’ve got some good stories… being in denial is mild compared to my parents…. yes, mother nature is one sick bitch, popping out mentally deficient creatures. right shantam.
bubbie, you are so sweet
I did not realize that Shantam was suffering from ‘sperm-eye’. Sorry to hear that It is quite a dangerous condition, because the sperm think the eyeball is an ovum and start burrowing into it. Who knows, in Shantam’s case this may turn into an evolutionary leap. The birth of the new man…’Shantum Erectus Futurus’.
Bubbie, watch out, man. Anugrah has the hots for you.
“Oh woe is Homo Erectus”.
“Shantam Eructus Limpus”
“Oh, me so horny, me love him long time”
Say, that Mango is pretty smart…
Of course Anugrah never leaves his friends behind…
that was a good one, lokesh!!!
I’m calling shantam- “Ole’ Sperm Eye” from now on…. I can see him with a patch one eye with a sperm logo on it…. very befitting.
Could even be the start of a new trend.
Your hatred for white people is obvious, i wonder why?
No Mr. Fake,
I have no hatred for white people but surely people like you, i feel are the pathetic members of a brave race…
Brave dies only once.. a coward dies many times in a day…
people sitting in open toilets in India deserve more of my respect than Burqa clad male writers..
so simple is this…
THE BEST DRUNK STORY OF THE MONTH
A drunken man walks into a biker bar, sits down at the bar and orders a drink. Looking around, he sees three men sitting at a corner table. He gets up, staggers to the table, leans over, looks the biggest, meanest, biker in the face and says:
‘I went by your grandma’s house today and
I saw her in the hallway buck-naked. Man, she is one fine looking woman!’
The biker looks at him and doesn’t say a word. His buddies are confused, because he is one bad biker and would fight at the drop of a hat.
The drunk leans on the table again and says:
‘I got it on with your grandma and she is good,
the best I ever had!’
The biker’s buddies are starting to get really mad
but the biker still says nothing.
The drunk leans on the table one more time and says,
‘I’ll tell you something else, boy,
your grandma liked it!’
At this point the biker stands up,
takes the drunk by the shoulders
looks him square in the eyes and says………………..
‘Grandpa;………. Go home!
Courtesy- jeevan´s circular mail
The excerpt from forbidden archives–
“It is not a question of time. If you decide to be a disciple, it can go on and on — in the body and out of the body,
with the mind, without the mind, in life and in death, within life and beyond life.
This game is an eternal game, that’s why I call it the ultimate game.
Those who decided to play with Christ, they are still playing; on new planes, in new plenitudes it continues.
Those who decided to play with Buddha are still playing. The game is so beautiful. so eternal, who wants to stop it?
I may not be here in the body but that will be a loss only to those who are not close to me,
that will be a loss only to those who were not courageous enough to be with me.
When I have gone out of the body it is not going to be a loss to you if you have really been a disciple.
The game will continue. I will remain available, you will remain available.
It is a question of the heart, it is a question of consciousness.
And consciousness knows no time; consciousness is beyond time, consciousness is timelessness.”
Osho
The Art of Dying, Chapter 8, Question 1
Shantam wrote :
“Seems like children of happy families go to OXbridge…. and the children of garbage familes…. end up at the feet of Indian gurus..waiting for the ultimate jackpot… Enlightenment.”
Actually I went to Oxford University where I did quite well. There is a bit about my life there in “Survivors’ Stories.”
On the whole I agree with you that sannyasins come from unhappy rather than happy families.
Alok John, please share that survivors story, which is yours.. That story will be alive..
Shantam,
Lokesh does not like the extracts, and perhaps three is enough.
Hence the huge market for therapy that they used to constitute – and maybe still do….
Above post re Alok’s ref. to Shantam’s remark re many sannyasins coming from unhappy families.
(Btw, I’ve read this book and recommend it for anyone who’s interested in dysfunctional families and how they screw people up).
Thank you SD.
Listening to music composed by Gurdjieff and De Hartmann. What do you all think?
I wrote a book about a dysfunstional commune and how great it was to live with dysfunctional therapists: its called Isn’t Life Great ?They’re turning it into a horror film
The action takes place in a commune renamed the MasterBates Motel.
One rainy stormy night a young couple appear , lost and with the car out of gas. As they begin to push the clapped out motor along the highway, they see caught in the flashing lightning a rain soaked hinge swinging sign ‘ MasterBates Motel .
Our intrepid happy duo, thankful as ever to existence, hug each other wildly, then out of the corner of her eye, the young star-crossed girl, a young pretty thing, strangely catches a glimpse of a shadowy figure standing in the rain , just outside the porch. ‘We’ve been expecting you, come in out of the rain and join us. You will be our pleasure’.
‘Sounds great ‘ , the young lovers replied earnestly ,not realising just what the MasterBates Motel had planned for them that night…..
..eee eee eee eee eeee eeee
You wanna be in my film Sharia?. I think there’s a part for everyone… you might not make it to the end though, because of the selfish local sheriff who’s been reading Ayn Rand and Noam Chomsky and confiused , refuses to answer the phone.
Alok do you have a book entitled : I Went to Oxford and did Quite Well’ ? I’m looking for some light Xmas reading for dysfunctional family members, who survived just the most gruelling tales of spiralling book-sales ever.
I can help you with the opener if you like….
…..and I’d just like to thank my mother without whom none of this would have been possible, currently on holiday in de Nile area, as somebody thought bizarrely it would help me recover my plunging book sales, of a less than happy childhood, over Xmas.
an extract:
The star had stopped travelling from the east, over Hendon,( London’s most reminiscingly orthodox suburban sprawl called locally ,JewSalem ), at the Jewish Protestant School of St Calvin Hillels Remedial School for very naughty Boys.
That morning all the children were preaparing for Xmas , singing in the grand gothic hall of the school (and open saturday Kosher Gefilte Fish restaurant.) .. Unto us a Child is Not Born…
Silent Night , Abusive Night
Oh little town of Hendon
We wish you a merry Xmas and a boo hoo hoo hoo…
This book comes complete with a build your own 1960′s classroom and cane set of pop up characters. Fun for all kids over 50.
‘ Okay stand up .. come on …which naughty boy published a very naughty book.. you know who it is.. come on.. oh its you little Alok….
Whats that.. your mother is in Egypt? But she’s Jewish.. You litlle fibber.
Okay you know what this means…’
‘ Yes sir, I’ll have to go to Oxford and do quite well sir, …gulp …’.
‘Not quite little Alok , not quite….’
P.M. Wasn’t Oswald Bates? I think that’s from whom Shantam took his prose lessons… take at: http://youtube.com/watch?v=UBM6CBtuhs4
http:/youtube.com/watch?v=UBM6CBtuhS4 or just look up – “booked on phonics”,” in living color”
my mistake — http://youtube.com/watch?v=UBM6CBtuHS4 so sorry me so stupid
Alok, it is not so much a case of not liking what you write. I simply can’t relate to it. My childhood was a happy one.
Being a writer myself, I can understand the desire to promote your work by whatever means possible, but a little tack is in order. No matter what a blogs theme may be, even if it is the usual slagging match, you put an excerpt from your book. That is not such a smart way to promote your writing because it has no relation to what is going on and is a sign of a writer who has not learned the ropes. If you think what you are doing is of interest to others on here please don’t let me hinder you. It is afterall an uncensored blog. If SD recommends your book that signals to me that the book might be of interest. Why not post a link?
Shahriar, you ask: Listening to music composed by Gurdjieff and De Hartmann. What do you all think?
I think that it will probably have a quirky kind of interesting vibe about it but actually be very boring.
Once upon a time, a Prince asked a beautiful Princess…
“Will you marry me?”
The Princess said “NO!”
And so the Prince lived happily ever after and collected firearms and rode motorcycles and went fishing and hunting and played golf and softball and dated women half his age and drank beer and scotch and had tons of money in the bank and left the toilet seat up and farted whenever he wanted…
PS-when it all became boring,Prince went to an Indian Master with his credit card.
Master felt pleased, ” you bring money, i bring meditation. Mix them together, it will make earth meet sky. This is it; The Enlightenemt.
And so ended the age of Kalyuga..
We are ushered into an age of Dhanyuga.
I am sure if prince gets enlightened with master or not or may be
but one thingh is sure he get bills and bank statements if he uses credit card
. It is always better to use cash when one is doing monkey business
Anugrah, you are right. As an Indian you know, Cash is the best remedy and best cash in the monkey business is when it is BLACK.
The huge expansion of properties of Indian gurus during the last two decades is a proof, how Indians are happy to accumulate and share with, “family and my Guru”, dogs and cats are not part of Indian emotional landscape.
In 99% cases it is a pure black money stolen from public funds or bribary or unaccounted money of business enterpreneours.
i have not seen a single book written by any of these choclate faced Guru swamis and Ma´s which can be compared even with the foot dust of Osho and J”, yet
they are reaping the fruits through their nursery rhythms and stories…
One of the reason for the rise of guru business in India is the declining creditibilty of “Sannyas”.
People are smart. They have seen, Osho discourses are good stimulators, but Living master even mediocre is still much better.
Without the Master.. the system ends up the way ice cubes fall from the tray once it is out from the freezer..
Whether Osho Resort or the affiliated meditation camps of Osho World, the emphasis is on the Osho medittaion techniques… but both the strcutures lack the spirit of Osho..
Osho spirit has a silence of a warrior…it can burn the limbs also…
Resort also radiate silence..but as one sees the silence on the roads of red light districts…but it is legal!
Resort also radiate silence..but as one sees the silence During The Days Light on the roads of red light districts…
One of the biggest new age lie is coming from the world of Osho…
“We have no organisation..it is organisum. We have no leader..we all share equal responsibility according to our natural skills. At the time of Challanges, our meditative consciousness leads us to amicable decisions..”
Osho spirit has a silence of a warrior…it can burn the limbs also…
This is typical hype delivered by Shantam. Why anyone would want to deliver it is anyone’s guess, as is if the idea that something Osho did or said would maim people. Utter bullshit from the master of the subject.
Shantam says: “One of the reason for the rise of guru business in India is the declining creditibilty of “Sannyas”.
People are smart. They have seen, Osho discourses are good stimulators, but Living master even mediocre is still much better.
Without the Master.. the system ends up the way ice cubes fall from the tray once it is out from the freezer..”
Shahriar: I am going to disagree Shantam. Sannyas’ credibility is not declining, in fact, it is increasing. Sannyas is the meeting of East and West, of body and soul, of therapy and meditation. (and Osho pointed out that meditation comes from the same root as medicine and that meditation was a means of getting out of the insanity which the world is living in. Non-objective art being one of the most visible examples of insanity. See james pollock and his paintings, definitely pathological.)
Also there are some who would argue, (such as people like Ayn Rand who reject mystical premises, although I am not saying that what I am about to say Ayn Rand would agree with.) that the value of Osho and his sannyas movement is in the values and ideas which it is spreading. Mainly, a rational, intelligent, healthy, up-to-date vision of religiousness, freedom of speech, individual rights etc. etc. etc.
Shantam says: “One of the biggest new age lie is coming from the world of Osho…
“We have no organisation..it is organisum. We have no leader..we all share equal responsibility according to our natural skills. At the time of Challanges, our meditative consciousness leads us to amicable decisions..””
I couldn’t agree more. Decisions have to be made according to reason, and the more developed your reason the better decision you can make. And everybody is not going to be making decisions. Only those in positions of responsibility make decisions. Although everyone is entitled to have an opinion about the decisions of management. Of course we would like those decisions to be according to Osho’s values and ideas and to not be a betrayal of his spirit. And I think the inner circle has been doing its job well. I am happy with the job that they are doing. And I do think that Osho made the right decision. I am confident in Osho’s judgement and his choice to create an inner circle and also his choice of inner circle members.
“Osho spirit has a silence of a warrior…it can burn the limbs also…”
While Osho may be a warrior in the sense that he fought against and his disciples continue to fight against all kinds of stupidity and superstitions, I would not say that it can burn limbs also, certainly not, because that would imply that he is a negative influence which he is not. Osho is a positive influence.
I forgot to add “Shahriar:” to a part of my post. My statement begins when I say I couldn’t agree more.
Yes, Shahriar, that is correct, but Shantam will back-peddle as usual and come up with some lame excuse for saying what he said. Here is a quote that fits the idiot to a tee.
The less people know, the more stubbornly they know it. Osho
That is a great quote. Was that quote really made by Osho? It really made me laugh because it is so true.
The less people know, the more stubbornly they know it. Osho
Wow.. Lokesh write this on your bathroom mirror than you can contemplate every day atleast few times a day.
It will do you good..
Shariar,
(1) Have you ever met any Osho initiated sannyasin in your life?
(2) Is there some Osho medittaion centre in your neighbourhood. I think it must be somewhere in USA and not in Iran?
(3) When was the last time you did Dynamic meditation and with how many people together?
(4) If on 19th of january, you want to particpate in Osho white robe brotherhood, how many kms. you must travel to reach the event?
i forgot to add that i was not speaking about Shantam when I said that it is so true, I was speaking more generally.
I cannot accept this ill-informed piece of generalization on a number of fronts.
‘Osho and his sannyas movement is in the values and ideas which it is spreading. Mainly, a rational, intelligent, healthy, up-to-date vision of religiousness, freedom of speech, individual rights etc. etc. etc.
What exactly is rational about feeling deeply connected to a man who has been dead for twenty years to the point that you believe he is strongly influencing your life on a daily basis? To do this requires a quantum leap into the world of the irrational.
Intelligent! Sannyasins like Shantam are stupid in my opinion. There is nothing intelligent in what he is saying. The biggest message his words convey is how psychologically stuck he is and how caught up he is with externals. The more meditative one is the more awareness grows. As a direct consequence of an expanding awareness intelligence also grows. Shantam is not a meditaive person. I am grateful to him for being a perfect example of what Osho’s vision of the new man is not. There is nothing healthy about being stuck.. As the word implies, it is ripe for the development of stagnation, which in turn breeds disease.
Up-to-date-religiousness. Osho was very aware of the negative effects caused by organized religions. I think he is the last person who ever walked the earth who would want to start a new one. His whole aim was to bring a religious quality into people’s lives…minus all the crap that goes with the external trappings of organised religion…priests, gatekeepers etc. Matters of the spirit are beyond the third dimension and with it time, and therefore has nothing to do with being up-to-date. We are talking about something that is eternal and beyoind time.
Not all sannyasins are for freedom of speech. Even on this blog sannyasins have requested that voices like Bubbie’s and Martyn’s be silenced, something that I totally disagree with.
Individual rights. Had you worked on the ranch or the latter days of Poona One you would have soon discovered that individual rights were a distant second to the rights of the whole that was the commune, where one sacrificed one’s individual rights on the alter of self-effacement.
Not for the first time, it strikes me that you, Shahriar, don’t have a fucking clue what you are talking about and that your slightly intellectual mind is only capable of holding a fragment of the big picture. Perhaps that is why you feel an affinity with Shantam.
The sannyas movement is made up of a broad spectrum of people. Try as you may to pigeonhole sannyasins there will always be someone or something that defies classification. The reason for this is that originally sannyas was based on the idea that it is cool to rebel…that rebellion brings you closer to the truth of who and what you are. Viewing some of the comments posted by Catholic sannyasins and sannyasin sheep on this blog is one reason I am drawn to this site because a balanced picture will never be presented if we leave those fucking clowns a platform with nobody to contest the dumb ideas of what they believe Osho’s vision incorporated.
1) I have not physically met any Osho initiated sannyasin in my life.
2) I don’t think so although I have actually not looked. It is possible.
3.) I don’t actually meditate. I did try it a few times but for various reasons did not continue it. Although I have at times tried to get my dad and my brother to come and have a group meditation. I don’t meditate now and I think that Dynamic meditation and Osho meditations in general have great therapeutic value. I reject the very idea of mystical enlightenment in fact, although I do not believe that consciousness is a by-product of matter.
4.) I live in the states so it would take a while to get to india which is half-way around the world. Probably 5000 km or more.
What exactly is rational about feeling deeply connected to a man who has been dead for twenty years to the point that you believe he is strongly influencing your life on a daily basis?
WHAT A PIECE OF DRY SHIT OZZING FROM THE MIND…
for further ref. Dec 21, 2010 at 11:18 pm
The excerpt from forbidden archives–
sorry sharia.. which state do you live in…? not all the time surely… ..
wow thats so mistakeal of you.
are you not there ?
are you a regular plunger into the unknown.
do you stay there?
Not all sannyasins are for freedom of speech. Even on this blog sannyasins have requested that voices like Bubbie’s and Martyn’s be silenced, something that I totally disagree with.
WHAT A DUCK, this man Lokesh is.
In the name of Freedom of speech, defending those 50 plus years old bastard writers who are hiding themselves under their mama´s bra*.
Osho is a spiritual teacher so of course people are going to feel deeply connected to him. But I would not say that it is a leap into irrationality, rather, I would say that sannyas is a love affair between the master and the disciple so of course as their master Osho is going to be revered and loved, but that is not irrational. When I said rational I was speaking of issues like abortion, and also the ideas which Osho held. As opposed to say cow worship or other stupidities which religion pre-Osho is full of.
When I said intelligent I was not saying that sannyasins were necessarily intelligent, although I think Shantam is intelligent. I meant Osho’s vision of religiousness is in tune with the intelligence of the modern world as opposed to say Christianity or Hinduism or Islam.
I do agree with the part about organizaed religion and all that, hence the reason why I used the word religiousness and not religion.
As far as freedom of speech, I was saying that Osho is for freedom of speech. And as far as individual rights is concerned at the Ranch, no one’s individual rights was being violated, (Sheela and her gang aside.) people were there of their own free will and they were free to leave at any time. Of course a certain order and discipline is necessary, that is necessary for all creative experiments.
Also, as far as pidgeonholing sannyasins, I am not trying to pidgeonhole sannyasins, nevertheless I do not agree when you say that there will always be someone or something who defies classification. That is not true, it is because it is not true that science is possible, that knowledge is in fact possible.
I live in michigan.
Shantam, try and let it enter that mush that you call a brain that freedom of speech is just that. It is not a question of you liking or approving of what a person says that is important. What is important is that we all have the right to express ourselves verbally full stop. Had you visted a country where freedom of speech is suppressed perhaps this would be easier for a dullard like yourself to understand. I do not know any other person who loved freedom of speech as much as Osho.
As for this ‘WHAT A PIECE OF DRY SHIT OZZING FROM THE MIND…’ Well, it is obvious that it is not only beauty that is in the eye of the beholder but ugliness also. What you are missing here, dimwit, is that the sentence you are referring to was composed in such a way as to be a positive comment…not the negative one that you interpret due to your negative conditioning.
You are out of your depth on these matters, Shahriar. You simply don’t know what you are talking about. Simple as that.
Lokesh, I am not the author. Morven Fyfe who was once Ma Lola is the author.
One reason I put up extracts is that the London sannyas scene is absolutely full of amateur third rate psychotherapists. Often when I go to a social event I start getting “advice” or pressure from these fools who do not understand the difference between poor parenting and real child abuse. I say “Read Morven’s book” but most of them won’t. So I put extracts up here in the hope one or two of them will read it.
I find that when people have read my chapter in the book, they stop pressuring me and treat me with a bit more respect.
Some links
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Survivors-Stories-Enlightening-Journey-Differing/dp/095561970X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1293013970&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/Survivors-Stories-Enlightening-Journey-Differing/dp/095561970X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1293013884&sr=8-1
http://www.survivors-stories.co.uk/
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happy xmas dinner everyone..
oh
sharia…oh so your not in a state of wisdom then..sorry my mystique
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if you banned me , i might have to ban you shantam.. then parmartha would have to find another name for sn..
like..
sannyas news for the under 12′s or maybe even
osho.com
Lokesh, Freedom of speech, Freedom of expressions and thoughts is one of the fundamental right. No discussion.
But only when the speaker stands with his words, when the thoughts and expressions have the legitimate persons behind them. Freedom without respsonsibilty…
To discuss with sannyasins such basic question….
Martyn and co. are shameless Talibans. Guts less abusers.. because they know somone can slap their cheeky cheeze.
The bastard has the guts to confirm that he is not willing his friends at facebook to know about this prostituioning of the words at sannyasnews…
and you call it freedom of speech.
alok.. if you wanna sell your book, perhaps you should title it like escape from colditz…make it a bit more of a thriller or
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hurry i might be banned…
don´t befool yourself fake martyn. Let your friends know..your creative writing skills at Sannyasnews..
You won´t do it.. because you are a cheater. A man who tells his friends about his duplex but goes for shiting near the railway tracks in Mumbai…
It can be London too..
Shantam, freedom is freedom regardless of whether you are responsible or not, of course as long as you do not violate the individual rights of others. And freedom of thought, speech etc. as long as the speaker stands by his words is not freedom.
can you extend that joke shantam…
the one about
your assessment criteria for being offended, being a cheater and having a false name, a mamas bra, the burqa .. its a long joke.. whats the punchline….
the assessment criteria…i’m obviously missing a post of yours
ps the party is at
/&&%ä6b
=ber%&çstrasse
“*ç+%& hausen
Germany..
please get there early
i’ll be there
shantam , my thoughts are like the wind .. they are freely available to everyone to take what they enjoy..
or avoid
there’s nothing else i ask..
.. but you can send cheques to my favorite charity..
ASS.. …the Association for Saving Shantams.. this xmas
Martyn thoughts are free..
I want to enjoy your thoughts at facebook.
What is your name there?
Fake Frank aka Anand…If you ever come back at sannyasnews..
All my comments about Martyn include you too.
I know..you know this.?
Any way, Martyn.. i read your comment and i express my opinion.
My objections are not on behalf of all the readers of sannyasnews. Whether they feel offended or joyous..is not my business.
If Shantam were a dog he would be a pitbull. Once he gets his jaws clamped on something he can’t let go…no matter how unimportant that thing is. If Bubbie and Martyn want to keep their identities private that is their business. People who get their nose stuck into other people’s business are usually people who don’t have any real business of their own to attend to, which is obviously true of champion chump…Shantam. Our very own waste disposal unit. He has a toilet pot for a head…capable of absorbing any kind of shit. A real champion. Three cheers!
Logic is a double head Dildo..And with a little awareness but much discourse reading, even male sannyasins can get the benefit too.
Without the benefit of Osho or His crucified Buddhafield….it is used so frequently,
and still brave hearts are not feeling any pain in the ass….
If Bubbie and Martyn want to keep their identities private that is their business..
What a bloddy logic..
The M..fuckers know..only through their fake identities they can go on leaving the trail of their written oxen shit…
And clever Lokesh know..not to create enmity with Talibans..
I am not looking for friends or enemies on SN. There are better places to look if in need of such human qualities. I write here purely for my own enjoyment. That simple.
i blog here
i blog there
what anyone else wants to do is their business.. but to ask to ban someone reveals a little bit of virtual hurt turning to virtual discipline…via virtual self gratification.. a few words of opinion not even inciting any wanton act.. oh dear .. a lawyer?? what in ? planning and urban law.The traffic law? food packaging and comestibles law ?sod’s law.the law of the universe? the dead guru act? newtons law of reverse effect?the law of the jungle?
ps shantam could you remove your facebook link its offensive to me.and i dont have any criteria for the offence, except that i cannot post as much useless self aggrandizing drivel as you..
i see arundhati roy is having the similar problemations in her own country sahib.. oh dearest.. must be we are all wanting the banning now.. its a new fashion against ideas…and shakespearean words.
anyway i’m off to spend my share of half a million euros, i met someone at the pub who was throwing money away as if it were xmas…nice guy says he won the lottery.. then sniggered…
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/talking_point/8220166.stm
shantam .. i know who you are.. you are the scrptwriter behind all those tourist translations into english across the world..
dammit i knew I recognised that writing from somewhere…
you canny old signwriter you.. and i was trying to make sense of what you write… of course.. its impossible…
isn’t life goat
?
better one here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6054726.stm
cheer up shants.. its only half a million… it could be worse…. well no actually thats difficult .. its crap… but crying into your mum’s chapati wont help…. release the anger… use those naughty words you’ve learnt here….
dont worry be happy.. you have friends….. life has meaning…. osho lives…watch your thoughts…dance the sadness..
oh bolllox .. just watch the video.. you will forget any number greater than 4…
http://www.chineseenglish.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/star-fucks.jpg
Reminds me of a stone’s song…any guesses which one
Yeah, I heard about you Polaroid’s
Now that’s what I call obscene
Your tricks with fruit was kind a cute
I bet you keep your pussy clean
Honey, I miss your two tongue kisses
Legs wrapped around me tight
If I ever get back to New York, girl
Gonna make you scream all night
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1340794/Muslim-group-launches-poster-hate-campaign-festive-period.html
Few white religious orphans would have learnt the lessons of life more easily not from Osho or his sannyasins but from their neighbourhood!
shantam i ‘ve looked at the link… just a minute.. those are my xmas wishes…teenage rape, drugs and forced abortions plus satanism… or is that shantamism.. oh who cares,, sounds like a great party.. whoo hooo
ps lokesh its not sympathy for the devil is it.. i’m not a stones fan .. i had to google the coffee connection… nice
…but. the stones had tea round my ex’s in dulwich once where they used to gig.in the early sixties, until her dad came in and chucked the long haired yobboes out…
NEWS FLASH: AP- Al Qaeda planned on poisoning salad bars in the U.S. Here we go again, the press is going to have a field day rehashing the past…..
Shantam: those 4 questions you asked that jackass Shahriar are meaningless… I can answer yes to all 4 and it means jack-shit- same with all “Sannyasins”- before making anymore posts- look in the mirror , and say aloud what you intend on posting…. do it while making funny faces and hop around like a chimp…. then you might recognize yourself for what you really are, something the rest of us already know…. you stupid monkey!!!
Lokesh-11:12 a.m. post— Here, Here!!! If you were drinking some of that great Scotch while writing that, can you please pass me some….. it’ll clear up my throat at least….
Shantam- at least my mama wore a bra- regarding your mama- i make pancakes bigger than her tits… so for you, nowhere to hide!!!
As far a s Shah-riar is concerned, you might as well go back to reading the Quran or the bible… your mind set is the same…. I see how the ancients screwed things up after their masters’ death, to today where plain imbeciles roam around raving about their “guy”, being the only legitimate fool connected to “god” and ranting about the rest, being “infidels”.. You, and shantam sound just like those psychos…. Shahriar, please do the exercise I recommended for shantam earlier.. It’ll make a monkey out of you.
P.M. I enjoy eating “Tuna-free Dolphin”— yum, yum
“But only when speaker stands…” Shantam’s conditions for free speech…. therefore it is not free speech…. any questions? Except for shantam and shahriar who dont have the mental capacity to ask any.
P.M. I think Shantam and Oswald Bates were separated at birth, what other reasons are there to explain shantam’s state of mind… i’ll look in a dumpster and see if i can find any…
Lokesh- that Stones song, Sympathy for the devil, no?
Just caught up with all of the posts—- didn’t see P.M.’s answer to the Stones trivia, sorry.
Shantam- i’m baking a cake for you, for the holidays… half kilo flour, eggs, sugar, hash oil, 100ml of gran marinier, 1/2 kilo dark chocolate. topped with strawberries, and whipped cream. Eat a piece before you post from now on… and a happy new year
This is the second dump of publicly available information into The private black hole (otherwise known as The Source by all you wise people here). This information was impersonally passed onto me by Swami Julia_ As_ange! Just to let you known that Swami Jul_an A_sange’s name has been professionally air brushed to fool only the stupidest of left wing nutters that he actually cares about exposing people to retribution by authoritarian and puritanical regimes.
Please note that ‘nutters’ refers to millions of people, including everyone here at SunYak’sBum News (otherwise known as Son Y’re ‘n Ass News).
For all you information hacks looking for the next slice of wisdom and ecstasy, Wikileaks has changed its name to WikiPiddle. Also, in the interest of liberation of the Inner-Circle from two and a half men, Sannyasnews has a sister city cited here for the first and ever lasting time as sassy MaYassNews. Swami Jul_an Ass_nge also made two quick passing cynicisms as we briefly passed each others space junk in our own back yard. The first thing he (or she) noted was that everyone should stop leaking information about his sordid sex life because that is private information. The second thing he (or she) noted was that the Bank of America board and the Osho Inner-Circle should resign before the next meeting of both boreds. Stay tuned, and do what every you do, but as an undercurrent do just one other think, don’t be board. (For all those lefties who missed that one, it is a slight of hand reference to the good ol’saying, “as thick as two planks of plankton”).
Here is the second rotten smelly dumpster treasure. Lap it up you lap-dancing loopy loner auto-canoodlers, and please stop Osho WikiPiddling.
Osho’s death controversy demands answers even today
0 Comments | DNA : Daily News & Analysis; Mumbai, Jan 19, 2010 | by Vaidya, Abhay
Twenty years after he died, the controversy surrounding Osho’s death on January 19, 1990 has still not been resolved with many followers seeking answers to key elements in the official story.
Within and outside discussion groups on the Internet, Osho’s followers are questioning the official version about Osho’s death and the purported instructions that he left behind for the conduct of the multi-million dollar commune after him.
The official version that he died of thallium poisoning administered during his prison term in the United States is being questioned on discussion groups such as sanyas.org. Many of his followers say that the mystic never showed any deterioration in his health for at least two years after his return from the US. Osho’s followers are also questioning the control exerted on the commune’s affairs and properties since his death by the British-born physician and powerful commune administrator Amrito (Dr John Andrew) and the even more powerful Canadian Michael O’Byrne, known as Jayesh.
It is well known in commune circles that Amrito and Jayesh were the only two persons present at Osho’s bedside when he died in Pune on January 19, 1990. Also, that it was Amrito who first propounded the thallium poisoning theory. Amrito and the commune’s press in-charge Amrit Sadhana backed out of an interview promised to DNA on Wednesday last.
Amrito insisted that he did not wish to discuss the past and that the only thing that mattered were Osho’s words.
That whole thallium conspiracy was and is nonsense. Osho was not poisoned by the U.S. government.
sherlock please protect me with your virility.. and let me run into your masculine arms… oh brett….
Martyn, Bubbie kind of fake characters can never think that it is because of them, many of the sannyasins hate to visit these pages, what to say about sharing their thoughts and experiences around Osho.
Who will pass a street, where someone is always pissing on the roads, who will pass the street, where dogs are always barking.
Basically it is the job of the creators of Snews to see, how they can make sannyasnews more accessable to new readers and writers.
Near the retirement age Yobs need to show their Identity card..
Those who think freedom is absolute, please, take a jump from near by building to check the worth of your free will…
Parmartha has to think, when was the last time, someone wrote a piece for Sannyasnews?
What so ever someone writes, few people are always there to shread the article and that too without revealing their identity.
It is gross!
Sannyasnews has beome Pakistan, where non state characters always sabotage.
The fanatics…
Keep up shantam.. i’m watching you for legal trespass.. i’ve just studied internet blogging law. i got an online diploma..and if you continue to use words that you are not in control of .. you could be arrested for not knowing what you are talking about….
life is gut ya ?
sannyasnews editor in chief
Time to clean this site
prem bubbie and prem martyn need to be removed, otherwise soon you will see no one around here to post any thingh .
Shantam , you are right, Nobody like to go to street or even passby where mad dogs like martyn and bubbie standing and try to bite street users
martyn has study online diploma and still can not figure out what to write. and how to write.
what kind of diploma is that?
martyn , clean cut lair
prem bubbie , clean cut psycho
god saves this nice site which is coming to end soon
Anugrah says: “god saves this nice site…” now, who’s the real psycho here. a catholic amongst “sannyasins”….. there is no god…. psycho
shantam and some others tried the same ploy last year in getting me banned. Now, i have company, Prem martin… nice you can join me, P.M. it didn’t work the last time, also with the same lame arguments… fortunately the editor of SN is more intelligent than both of you… what are insults,and curse words compared to stifling freedom of speech, expression? the two-headed dildo(as shantam likes to mention), anugrah and shantam are more keen on dictatorship and controlling expression than they are in developing an intelligent, dynamic, in your face forum for expressing view points on important issues and a forum for just goofing off… the “real” new man of the now and forever…. good “ole’ shantam the sperm eye” has been fertilized, incubated and is now running amok again….. where’s the animal control department when you need them?
Some holiday entertainment- “The Nutcracker” by Shantam
shantam – you even posted with several fake names, not too long ago…. short memory eh? not for an alzheimer’s patient
First of all, the editor of SN can allow insults if she or he chooses to. That is her (I’ll use her from now on, not sure if the editor is male or female.) business. And to prevent insults and rude behavior on a privately owned website is not stifling freedom of speech. It is *not* censorship. Censorship is when the government uses physical force to prevent a certain person from expressing their opinion. Nevertheless, private individuals and organizations in no way have to tolerate rude and insulting behavior. Just as a person who creates a disturbance in a restaurant will be asked to leave.
Now I do think that rude and insulting behavior should not be tolerated on this website but this is not my website.
I also do think that a website which allows rude and insulting behavior will prevent many persons from posting on the website who would otherwise do so.
You cannot cross a non-requirement backwards….
Gimme that old time religion……
Anugrah… you have assessment criteria deficiency too.. I told you the shantam virus can ruin your abilty to organise words coherently…..
But maybe you can dance….
So dance..with me.. dont worry if i stand on your toes…
I just wanna see you dance….
its Xmas…… ( you know the guy they nailed later for being born…..)
which part of the story is your favourite ?
I like the one about the virgin myself…
and the three wise men
will you sharia law and shantam play the role… of the ass ?.. You will all have to pull in the same direction though..
You know how to pull each other in the same direction?
Here’s a Xmas quote from Osho..
Mary is a fine fuck…
and
You are a fuck off…
bubbie we have a party .going on.. you bring the booze.. and i’lll make the sandwiches…
sharia law.. don’t call parmartha a her… he really hasn’t done anything to upset you …
‘ shocking.. some people …no respect… should be banned….or shot’
…
.quote from sharia law.. aged 11
Somehow sannyasnews is the only “mainstream” Osho site, where seekers can express the views of the journey, can sharpen their skills, can have the encounter etc.
Its position is unique also as almost all the sites of any guru are dedicated to highlight that person´s agenda..
Basically, Jehovah the witness and Mormon Mentality is the backbones of any cult.
Raise the questions about the others but protect fiercely your Mormon leader!
It is not a question to ban someone but it is very important that who wants to write does it with honest intentions and in a transparent way.
It is a matter of great shame on behalf of few people, who are misusing the common man´s power by hiding behind the Vail of complete anonymity. They are not sick because they know very well, if their well wishers see their this reality, they will feel utterly embarrassed.
Such people are not better than small time criminals, pick pocketrs, the Jo’s who pinch the bottoms of woman in the crowded places…
Because world has many such people, collective will has installed so many surveillance cameras on every corner..
Sannyasnews must take some measures, for example. comment writers should log in with their facebook identity.
Let their friends and family know, how much Osho has redefined and refined the human consciousness…
Few fake writers get much of their intellectual stimulation from Noam Chomsky…
Is Mr. Chomsky a ghost name? Is there some personality, some face, some identity behind this name?
Seems like broken, lonely and dying spirits feel great joy to watch WWF fights.
The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.
The sun shines on everyone, doesn´t make choices…
If it really his a serious issue why not simply create a SN ‘censored’ site? I’ll tell you whu, because it would be a failure. Nobody at all would comment on it after a few weeks. I mean to say, who would want to constantly read the ravings of a sexually repressed personality like Shantam…maybr Shahriar, Anugrah and teenage Chinmaya. Shahriar comments are uninteresting for the most part except for the fact that it is fascinating to study the writings of someone who has not a clue what he is talking about.
Women don’t visit the website generally. This is probably due to the language used and perverts like Shantam trying to contact them on Facebook. He has constantly pestered Ma Yoga Shakti with sugar-coated verbal shite since he discovered her due to me revealing her adventures with Rajneesh and a hairbrush. The last I heard from her she was pissed off with me because I made her story public and because Shantam wants to be ‘Friends’.
No….I’d leave SN as it is…why change something as perfectly absurd as SN? It is afterall a good mirror of the ridiculous times we live in and in my case always good for a chuckle.
I personally do not mind SN. It feels like an authentic conversation, of course, with the exception that if you called someone insulting names etc. face to face most likely they would discontinue the conversation.
SANNYASNEWS IS BACK.
GREAT.
Seems like it was not some state generated effrot to suppress the voice, but some individual unhappy with the themes and contents of Sannyasnews.
It can be also, some unhappy participant in the discussion who was using the platform in the name of freedom of speech to abuse each and every one, yet hiding behind the complete Vail of secrecy.
Who so ever is the person..he has surely committed an offence under the Cyber security laws.
Welcome back SN!!! So, it took a while for you guys to scrape up some money to hire a computer guy to clear things up, welcome back anyway. I managed to read shantam the loon’s posting on the notice board, he just can’t get enough of his “control freak” agenda… freedom is alien to him as it is to the Gitmo detainees… shahriar, claiming a “private” person or outfit can’t be a censor, that statement shows his teenage naivete. well, onto better things…. i trust most of you have gotten over your hangover, as for me i’m still crawling around on the floor looking for my cognac bottle, can’t remember where it is or who had it last…. i think i’ll sip some champagne instead…. cheers, skol, bottoms up(thinking of you, shantam)… happy new year
If that is true shantam then you are prime suspect #1…. maybe you hacked the site in your sleep… have you thought about handcuffing yourself to your bed….100% guaranteed to keep you accountable for your actions while you’re unconscious… do it anyway -24/7.
Freedom comes with courage, freedom comes with responsibility..freedom is a birth right of living and dead creatures but not those souls who are operating by hiding themselves behind anonymity.
And i am going to attack these cyberTalibans relentlessly other than the people in power who are corrupt and insensitive to the voice of their people.
I am only one of the participant, it is not my site. The discretionary power lies with the promoters of sannyasnews.
when they have already invested their time, money and energy into this venture, next step is to think, how it can reach to wider sections of readers and writers.
Why there are only six seven people writing for sannyasnews and why not sixty seventy people. It will make the Osho´s voice coming from His people more colorful.
What stops many people to use this vehicle?
It is almost like in a Tram, train or bus. Most of the people simply avoid to sit in that compartment where few people are drinking and vomiting, and if some passenger confronts them, the answer comes, ” Train does not belong to your father. We have purchased the ticket, and therefore gets the right to do what we are doing…
Which article writer will pour is heart out, when few people put them down without any consequence..and the wonder is, no one knows.. who these people are.
May be some paedophile priests ..?
During the last days, Dr. Binayak Sen, one of the formost voice of sanity and courage in India was sentenced to life imprisonment.
Dr. Sen who has done the most remarkable work as a doctor among the poorest of the poor, in the tribal regions of India, Dr. Sen who raised the voice aganist the state supprsion of these people, who also spoke against the violonce commited by the maoists in that region was sentenced because of Sedition by a judge who was soulless enough to tow the line of the state.
20 Nobel prize winners also Noam Chomsky has signed the petititon in favour of Dr. Sen.
I hope, Dr. Bianyak sen is chosen for the next Nobel peace prize.
The writers at snews who are so full with the idea of freedom can learn a lesson or two.
Give the legitimate name and face to your words…Without this you are nothing less than a terrortist.
Imprisoned Russian Oil Tycoon Is Convicted Again
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/28/world/europe/28russia.html?ref=global-home
News for the cowards who want to follow the footsteps of the brave..
Shantam- your idea of freedom is repression, plain and simple,, or do you have trouble understanding your own words….. a true idiot you are.
Where is the repression..you coward.
Are you writing against Chinese premier or vanuzuella´s president?
Are you writing against the Italian Mafia or Maxico´s drug cartel?
In that case, one can understand, the need of secrecy on the part of few, though there too, those who confront, they do it with open chest, and do their best to make the world a beautiful place.
Here at snews..you and your brothers are free to write any thing in any language…but write with dignity..Write with your prevalent sannyas name.
From all the anonymous writers, only Frank was writing with dignified satires.
Most probably, he has understood his limitation and has taken sabbath from Snews..
But Cockroaches..they will exist..because someone like Lokesh like to feed them.
i’m working on hacking your name shantam..
s<<<<<<<%&&%4+01?)=
hash line separate |[Ç#“±
gobbledegook line // backsline &%ç am
i’ve done it…. okay every time you write something it will come out here as
self indulgent
cobblers
hello reader
The following sung to the tune of Hark the Herald Angels Sing
hack the herald angels sing
they broke through the sannyasnews security ring
I got spam in my emails
my identity is for now for sale
everyone knows who i really am
except for the bloke known as shantam
lokesh and bubbie and dear frank-ster
were found to be aliases by a prank- ster
nothing’s safe now in this place
better keep polite or be erased
dont say horrid things just for fun
or you’ll be hacked by
the click of an-
onymouse one
Happy New Year Everyone … have a great one…
and thanks for getting it back up so quick… if you know what i mean..
was it with shantam’s help?
nice tune…. i’ll sing it next time i go caroling.
anytime someone attaches conditions with freedom-it’s called repression…. same with love- say if you will give unconditional love to someone but only if you get it . shantam says-” you are free…. BUT write with dignity..write your prevalent sannyas name.” Now, how stupid and repressed is that? you are a blind fool shantam, but you are a trained lawyer, so that explains a lot. conditions, requirements, rules, regulations- all for stupid people, no matter how well educated.
who wears the pants in your family shantam? your wife? swami pussy boy is a better name for you. at the airport, do you have to take off your dog collar before going through security? your leash? here’s a bone for you, now go out and bury it.
‘ He started out toward Jerusalem and, arriving at Knob, acquired an ass on which he rode into Jerusalem, as a fulfillment of the prophecy of Zechariah.’
from the toldot yeshu.. the mediaeval jewish teaser….
source:
http://www.essene.com/History&Essenes/toled.htm
and in relation to self declaration…an essene quote…
”may you be seen by the whole (community) so that the whole (universe) may be seen through you.. ”
—
arriving at KNOB… surely not ????
it changes my view of xmas…
( for non uk english speakers kindly refer to english dictionary of slang )
Resort is preparing round the clock for new year´s eve party-
The orpahans adoped by a loving father figure have gone mature, now they want to celebrate their Dad´ s birthday, who left their mother in an asylum and run away with some Ms. Pappaya Pineapple!!
Well, the sudden break from SN does not seem to have stopped the stuck record that is the voice of Shantam…yawn. Now I’m accused of feeding cockroaches…another yawn. Shantam you are committing the greatest of social crimes…you are boring people.
I don’t think many sannyasins who had something worthwhile to say would be put off by foul language and thus be prevented from blogging on SN, but seeing your constant rants might alert people to the fact that the man who posts the most comments on this site is a complete idiot might be a turn-off for some.
the commune was/is built on idiomatic use of the word fuck…..
see osho video .. ‘strange consequences’ …for further details
…i surrender my case m’lud
now please move on everybody its the new year for chrissake
and now
i’m getting really hacked off .. please help…
life is fucking great…
Two websites I recommend are
http://www.danielpipes.org
and
http://www.campus-watch.org.
Both very informative websites.
Actually prem bubbie, censorship is not when a private group decides not to publish an article. Since the newspaper is their property they have a right to do so and they are not initiating force to prevent others from expressing their views, if someone else wants to express their views they can start their own newspaper. Censorship is when the government initiates physical force to prevent a person from speaking.
Censorship in its broadest sense means the suppresion of people and their ideas and is usually grounded in morality. This should not be a problem on a sannyasin website because Osho often spoke about the morality imposed by society and how false it was.
I think you should realise, Shantam, that this ‘anonymity’ issue you go on about incessantly these days is barely relevant to this Blog, as only one of its usual contributors who seems to annoy you appears to be using a ‘false’ name.
Besides, anyone can simply concoct a ‘sannyasin name’, can’t they?! That alone makes your preoccupation more than somewhat misguided, just a waste of your and your readers’ (all 6 of them) time and energy.
You really are an obsessive type, aren’t you? More or less a crashing bore.
If this is the state of white mind, as one sees at sannyasnews, i am doubtful about the future of Britain, highly mediocre minds prentending to be well verse in the social and poltical etiquettes.
Question is what stop these 50 plus YOBs to write with their name, not pretended name but with the names their friends know them?
Just imagine, there are ten sannyasins in close cricle of friends in London.
All ten are reading the sannyas news.( there are around 1000 people, who click sannyasnews on regular basis).
Definately, all ten will be wondering who is this prem martyn?
Will one of them will take the responsibilty that yes..me the Swami Bodhi Chita is writing under this name?
Most probably never.
Because no living soul will ever accept such trash under his name..
Shame on those white colored creatures, who are protecting such kind of bastards, surely enough none of them has ever hold in his hand a single book where the meaning of freedom of speech and expressions is elobrated.
Throw the flowers or the rotten tomatoes, Arunji and Rajneesh are million time better than those abusers, atleast they do in the open arena, and therefore volunerable to other people´s bullshit and praise.
Same is about Chaitanya Keerti…
These three people have tried to write their views at this platform( Meera, the mother of Satya Deva does not need SNews..nor the leftover junk of Lucknow), why they don´t write here any more, simply because few masked men are standing with the naked knives here..
And what Lokesh and Satya deva are doing..protecting these roudies…..
Bravo…!!
Blood is thicker than the water…
There are many instances from Osho´s life in Pune, when people wanted to visit Osho, including than the PM of India, Mrs. Gandhi, who changed the programmein the last minute, because of fear of public backlash..
Osho has crticised such cowardly acts.
If you have something to say, say with openness and bear the consequences also….
OshoLeaks (formerly WikiPiddle) has just received a classified as top plus one secret from the meeting of the bored Inner-Circle and Global Connections Centre Management huddle. As a side to this it is noted that the reason they are bored as opposed to board is because they have been compelled through their own voluntary lack of intelligence and unparalleled greed for world religious domination to agree with everything that Jayesh and Amrito say.
This top plus one secret document was placed in the WikiDumpster under the cloud of darkness of an optic fibre tube that originated from the Krishna House blue room. Yes that’s right folks, this is the real deal scoop, and was sent from someone sitting across from you and smilingly agreeably at the bored board beating that yes the drinking water was, is, and will be internally as pure as our principles, and that the Germany Bakery was blown up by the United States government with an incendiary device of common sense, planted their while Osho was in US law enforcement custody no less than thirty something years ago.
In Pune, a quick response team (QTR) was set up as a last line of resort in the event of another terrorist attack on the city. The team was visiting key establishments, with the primary aim of familiarizing themselves with the layout of these areas, in order to most effectively respond if the worst case scenario arose (like for example the Mumbai siege).
Obviously, the Osho International Meditation Resort (OIMR) is going to be high on the list of priorities, and no doubt, with a boasted abundance of international visitors to the exclusive resort (the largest spiritual club of its kind on the planet), foreign governments would also be pleased to hear of such foresight. However, remarkably, the management of the Osho Resort denied the QRT access to their facilities.
Ma Amrit Sadhana, the official spokesperson for the resort, said of the denied request that “I have no comments on this. We work very sincerely, that’s all I can say”, and when queried about the Headley connection (thus highlighting the very real threat of terrorism), also said that “This is an old story, the whole world knows about it”. Yes, it is an old story, yet the bombing of the nearby German Bakery is testimony to the fact that it is also a serious and continuing one. The statements by Ma Sadhana and the conduct of the resort management seem to be egregiously out of touch with reality.
It should be noted that in the months prior to the Bakery bombing the Osho Resort was notified about the high risk of a terrorist attack, and seemed to outwardly do very little to fortify its premises, other than to build a new health club. In addition, on the night of the bombing, there were no signs of an effective response by the management to deal with the possibility of a second attack.
In fact, remarkably, people who rushed from the aftermath of the German Bakery bombing to the resorts main entrance in order to get assistance were met by a stubborn front gate attendant that was apparently not even able to locate or contact Swami Dhyanesh, the head of resort security. Even more remarkable is that later in the night (after the bombing), the resort actually held a disco dance party. All resort guests apparently danced the night away with abandon, ignorant of the devastating bombing that took place just around the corner, and ignorant of its unfolding tragedy and the possible risk they were left exposed to.
Now we have a government sanctioned team of commandoes trying to work out how to best deal with a worst case scenario at the Osho Resort, and it is not even allowed passed the front gate. I would like to make an official request to Ma Sadhana that in the event of a siege actually taking place, to kindly let the QRT commandoes into the resort. Of course they will not be acquainted first-hand with the layout of the resort, and therefore will be at a considerable disadvantage, both putting their lives and the lives of resort guests to further risk of harm. This is idiocy from resort management to the extreme.
Why would management have responded this way? Perhaps, as Ma Sadhana suggests, they really do think that it is an old story that is no longer relevant today. This seems remarkably naïve. Does management actually ever step foot outside the surrounds of this religious complex? Does management ever read a newspaper other than the never ending re-runs of Osho Times?
On the now unnotable day of Osho’s birthday at the de-Oshoized resort, IndianExpress.com ran an article which spoke about the gateless gate now being replete with a sophisticated security system including a scanner and metal detector. This apparently came into operation (inaugurated) on the 5th of December, just a few days after the Mumbai DNA ran its stories about the QRT being denied admission.
It should be noted here that a possible defence of Ma Amrit Sadhana’s comment about the QRT denial – “I have no comments on this. We work very sincerely, that’s all I can say” – was because she was aware that a new security apparatus at the front gate was to come online in the next few days. However I hardly see how this supposedly sophisticated system justifies not allowing the QRT into the premises.
A supposedly highly sophisticated security apparatus, including a scanner, metal detector, and a reception desk that has bars on three sides is in no way a fool proof set-up, especially considering there are numerous entrances to the resort and plenty of fences you could jump over or climb through. In addition, it is widely reported that the Mumbai siege style attack has become popular within various terrorist cells. So, if a few guys with assault rifles run through the gateless gate, now they will set off the metal detectors. Then what?
In IndianExpress.com, Ma Amrit Sadhana is quoted as saying that the reason for the new security apparatus was because “after the bakery blast, the authorities had issued an advisory to tighten security and the new gate is in keeping with the instructions.”
Presumably the authorities would have issued such an advisory in the days (perhaps weeks) following the Bakery blast. It should also be noted that in the months prior to the blast such an advisory was also made to many establishments, including the Osho Resort and the German Bakery. Incidentally, it was in part for this reason that the Pune police could have, but chose not to pursue legal redress for the Bakery managements conduct in the lead up to the bombing.
So we have it that some eight and a half months after the Bakery bombing Ma Sadhana offers no comment about the QRT denial. When pressed about the obvious possibility of the resort being a target of terrorism, citing Headley as an example, Ma Sadhana is again dismissive by simply saying that that is an old story. So how does one make sense of this response when just a week or so later the same Ma Sadhana says that they have upgraded the security for the front entrance based on an advisory from the authorities following the blast?
Sometime after the Bakery bombing – and presumably not some eight or nine months following it – the resort was issued an advisory from the authorities. Yet some how this seems to have gotten lost by the way side when the QRT turned up. The specific intelligence about Headley, the general threat of terrorism, and the actually death and destruction at the German Bakery, seem to disappear into a dismissive and secretive, but apparently sincere, managerial process.
What is the deal here? When Ma Sadhana says this is an old story, is this applying just to the Headley connection, or as a more general comment? My reading of the article on Mid-Day.com was that the interviewer, after getting a no comment, wanted to make the point that it really does seem on the surface crazy to deny the QRT entry because there is so much intelligence pointing to a number of specific threats, and a general threat. Headley is an obvious way to reinforce the point. So to however is that a Karachi based terrorist cell viewed video footage of the resort.
Either way you look at it, Headley and the general threat of terrorism is not an old story. Headley has pleaded guilty to being involved in the long term planning of the Mumbai siege. This person is not a spur of the moment terrorist. Headley is a long term strategist. He was in Pune and visited the Osho resort on two separate occasions. There is no way of knowing with any certainty whether or not the arrest of Headley disrupted or terminated the plans for which he was conducting surveillance.
Headley is not an old story, and nor is the threat of terrorism. That is why the QRT wanted to familiarise themselves with the resort grounds. So if Ma Sadhana does not like the bad publicity of dredging up the Headley link, she can say it is an old story but she is wrong. Also, if it is a more general comment about the threat of terrorism – and hence why the QRT did not really need to gain access to the resort – she is also wrong. Not only is she wrong, she is remarkably inconsistent.
Presumably resort management had an advisory directive from the authorities about taking steps to increase their security in the face of the threat of a terrorist attack sitting in their in-trays or on their desks for many months.
Ma Sadhana fends of the pesky interviewer from Mid-Day.com with a ‘no comment’, an ‘old story’ dismissal, and a trust me on this one because we the resort management are being ‘sincere’ here. Well I am sorry but I am not convinced of sincerity. Actually I am getting a little more convinced of my suspicions.
It is blazingly obvious that to deny the QRT request is utterly irresponsible. It exposes the visitors to the resort (biggest place of its kind in the world I keep being told) and the QRT to obvious increased risk of harm. Unfortunately the resort’s official stance of being secretive and dismissive is not good enough. The authorities have issued advisories both before and after the Bakery bombing. Just a few days after fending off an interview about the QRT denial, Ma Sadhana is quoted as saying the brand new security set-up at the front gate is in response to the advisory from authorities. Presumably it is also because the resort management thinks that terrorism remains a very real threat, and is not just an old story.
So why not let the QRT onto the grounds? Certainly the management’s decision seems to fly in the face of the advisories from authorities. If a worst case scenario takes place, and if there is an element of legal compulsion contained within the advisory, legally speaking, I would say that the resort may have a little explaining to do. As mentioned previously, their past conduct on this matter is similarly perplexing (disturbing). Of course this also remains under wraps, and no doubt they are very sincere on this.
The resort management, with its own about face just a few days after providing an explanation for the QRT denial, also has no recourse to ignorance in defence. It is almost as if they forgot about the Bakery bombing, the threat of terrorism, and the advisories from the authorities when the QRT turned up. It all got lost in the past somehow. What, is this wacked out mentality the result of years of intensive meditation? I certainly hope the style of meditation being offered and practiced at the resort does not have the general result of followers obliterating their memory and deranging their basic mental faculties.
Anyway, a few days after this perplexing QRT scenario, an apparently first rate security apparatus turns up at the front entrance, and then management now fully realises that terrorism is a real threat, and they are onto it with the utmost of sincerity and responsibility.
The trouble with this warped mentality is threefold. Firstly, an apparently horrendously stupid decision does not automatically get wavered by making a possibly constructive one. Secondly, in comparison to the sophisticated attacks which have been shown to be a distinct possibility, the front gate still looks like an open invitation. Thirdly, which front gate are you talking about? What about the back gate that leads to the same place? What about that the resort is divided into three distinct areas that each have different access points? Anyone thought of the possibility that a terrorist (or almost anyone for that matter) could easily jump over or through much of fencing that is the perimeter of the resort?
And it is not like I am revealing any secrets here. Consider Headley and the Mumbai siege for a moment. We are talking about long term surveillance, planning, and execution carried out by highly trained fighters with sophisticated weaponry.
What we are talking about here is a bit of common sense as opposed to utterly irresponsible conduct by resort management, as reflected by explanations from the resorts official spokesperson that are profoundly hypocritical and inconsistent.
Again I ask the stark question, why not let the QRT onto the grounds? One other possibility is that the Osho Resort does not trust the security authorities. Recall that its previous incarnation was dismantled by the US government, and though with the wisdom of hindsight its leader (previously known as Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, leader of the Orange people and labelled a sex guru) has been absolved of any involvement and is now considered a famous religious figure, senior figures at the infamous Ranch were convicted for crimes ranging from mass poisoning to attempted murder. Hence there may be a legacy of paranoia within the second coming of this religious movement. However what concerns me more is, based on my investigations as a self appointed Swami, perhaps it is not just paranoia – perhaps there really is someone watching you!
I suppose that all the other serious matters that have been raised about the Osho resort’s conduct in recent years are either all in the past or at least you are being sincere about them. Was the water scandal really how it was? After all that lavish investment to launch the new vision of Osho Resort onto the world stage – just the first step of a sweeping global initiative – where did you get the money and the common sense to fix the water system? Common folks I aren’t that stupid. You didn’t fix the water did you! Bet you bought a few filters back a ways when a few too many people started asking questions. How old are they now?
Still you managed to get some extra funds together for a new health and fitness club. See, I knew you could find some money when you needed to. Suppose it would have been too much to ask to divert those funds to a serious effort in fortifying the resort when you were warned by the authorities that the Osho Resort was a terror target.
How old is your prized new kitchen and dish-washing facilities? Any maintenance and wear and tear problems? Standards dropping a little in recent years are they? I heard the sparkling brook that runs past your place offers a pristine reflection. Yeah it’s all OK. Bygones are bygones and the future is the unfolding of this moment that is taken care of with sincerity. You’ve won me over. I am convinced.
This issue in the Mumbai DNA that highlights the absurdity of Osho being poisoned by the US still remains a little shady. You know how it is…Osho has no signs of major health problems for a couple of years after leaving the US. All of a sudden he falls seriously ill and spends the next long weeks in a battle of life and death. Then the never before heard of notion that he was poisoned in the US a couple of years back comes to life and everyone buys into it. Makes absolutely no sense, but then hey, I haven’t found much that does in my investigations.
We have from Wikipedia that…His doctors hypothesized that he had been poisoned by radiation and thallium, and that he must have slept on his right side on a deliberately irradiated mattress, since his symptoms were concentrated on the right side of his body.
Wow that’s a very interesting theory. Where did that one come from? Who first had the idea that US authorities poisoned Osho? Who knows where it came from, but if you want to know why The Ranch was a flop, here’s a clue. Osho says that the US government poisoned him, so all his followers mind numbingly agree. That’s right, makes absolutely no sense at all yet is believed as gospel truth because the Master said so. Of course Osho is a saint in India now, so could be that a few wars will be fought over that little lie.
I have my own wacked out theory…must have been doing too much meditation! I reckon the doctors have it the wrong way around. I reckon he was sleeping on his left side. That way, his right ear would have been available to pour a thallium concoction down through the Eustachian tube.
Apologies for the trifle diversion, now back to the topic at hand. Hmmm, I can’t recall what that was. Ah yeah, in the Mumbai DNA article, the last sentence says that “Amrito insisted that he did not wish to discuss the past and that the only thing that mattered were Osho’s words”.
This is where I am puzzled. You see I have seen a number of compilations of Osho’s words that look like nothing more than a creation of the editors own stylized view of Osho. What’s that I hear…Jayesh always talks about 24 carat Osho. You would have to be a vegetable to consider the compilations I looked at to be anything other than a mockery. I would call the attack on Osho’s words severing rather than editing…no, actually I would call it poisoning. Yeah, that’s the right word for it.
And I have also read at least twice of Amrito being attributed to this literary ‘poisoning’ of Osho’s words. So how does that work? The only thing that matters to Amrito is Osho’s words, yet he is seemingly party to their derision. And sorry, I do not by all the official line about access and introduction to the Master. The editing is done on the most fundamental subject matter that shape the way anyone being introduced to Osho will view him. They will be misguided at the outset into believing a fundamentally flawed notion of Osho as propagated by the current management under the guidance of Jayesh, Amrito, and their appointed ruling friends. Works out very nicely. There is a lot to gain from such a strategy. Well done and keep being secretive. Shame about the leaks and the glaring inconsistencies. Not to worry though, you have a really smart official spokesperson.
I sincerely believe in your secrets to the detriment of me and everyone around me.
Please do not unwrap this present until you have untwisted your neurons, else you will think the gift is the wrapping’s knot.
Thankyou so very, very much, and have a very merry Osho-mass meeting.
Swami Detective
Below are the two articles from Mid-Day.com:
No entry for cops at Osho ashram
By: Kaumudi Gurjar Date: 2010-11-30 Place: Pune
The Osho International Meditation Resort (OIMR) doesn’t seem to have learnt its lessons well. Despite constantly being in the news for being a terrorist target, it did not allow the Quick Response Team (QRT) inside the premises. It may be noted that David Headley, Lashkar-e-Taiba member behind 26/11 attacks in Mumbai, had visited OIMR two times before the actual attacks. Headley had pleaded guilty for his involvement in the 26/11 terror strikes on Mumbai.
Sources revealed that the QRT that had gone to conduct an inside review of OIMR was not allowed to enter the restricted area inside. The QRT prepared a map of the establishment on the basis of peripheral view of this establishment. Ma Amrit Sadhana, official spokesperson of OIMR said, “I have no comments on this. We work very sincerely, that’s all I can say.”
The QRT was formed after the terror attacks in Mumbai on November 26, 2008. It comprises of 96 commandoes and is supposed to be prepared for any law and order emergencies in the city. In a bid to familiarise itself with places which are security concerns in the city, the team visits them.
According to police sources, Headley had done a detailed study of OIMR twice ”in June 2008 and March 2009 ”before and after the Mumbai terror attacks. This was confirmed by National Investigation Agency (NIA) in November 2009. Despite this incident in the past, QRT was not allowed in. Reacting to this, Sadhana said, “This is an old story, the whole world knows about it.” She later said, “Headley was allowed inside after he cleared the mandatory HIV test.”
Sources said the incident of QRT being denied entry took place last month. Sources in the police department who spoke on the condition of anonymity said, “QRT team is being sent to all public establishments and malls so that they get a chance to know their internal structure. But this is the first place we faced resistance.” When asked why the matter was not pursued further, the source said, “This was for their safety. If they do not think it is essential, then we thought there was no point in persuading them.”
‘QRT is not Osho ashram’s watchman’
By: Kaumudi Gurjar Date: 2010-12-01 Place: Pune
Meditation resort criticised for not allowing Quick Response Team on premises
Residents of Koregaon Park, social activists and former police commissioners of the city have condemned Osho International Meditation Resort’s (OIMR) decision of not allowing Quick Response Team (QRT) inside its premises. MiD DAY had reported that the team, which had gone to OIMR was not allowed into the premises.
Reacting on this issue, Bhaskarrao Misar former DGP and former police commissioner said, “OIMR is a public charitable trust and every citizen has a right to access it. We experienced the same kind of resistance from OMIR even three decades ago. Considering the current security issues, they should not have done it.”
Misar said his efforts to convene a seven-member committee comprising activists, police officers, residents etc. who would have been allowed access inside OIMR as and when required were unsuccessful.
“The decision to not allow QRT by OIMR is self-defeating. It is a precautionary measure meant for the safety of OIMR and also for those who visit it. They should not have barred the police from entering inside,” said Jayant Umranikar former DGP and police commissioner. “However, legally OIMR has a right to say if it does not want to be protected.”
President of Koregaon Park Nagrik Kruti Samiti Yogesh Pingale said, “We strongly condemn this attitude of OMIR authorities. They are behaving as if law and enforcement agency officials are their watchmen and nothing else.”
However, Police Commissioner of Pune Meeran Chadhha Borwankar said that OIMR co-operates fully with the police force and QRT.
Well said ,lokesh, regarding censorship…. these bozos, shahriar and shantam can’t see past their own shadows, a severe case of myopia i’m afraid. those two in particular have dictionaries and encyclopedias at their sides and can’t leave home without them… life when lived, has no use for either(except for spell checking, something shantam refuses to do). very rigid, uptight… one being a washed up lawyer, the other, a homeless islamic extremist. come ye all – “the show’s about to start, guaranteed to blow you head apart- gotta see the show, it’s a dynamo….” (ELP-1972) some circus-aye?
Shantam- why are you so obsessed with numbers, statistics, dates, times, etc? try living for a while, and put down that calculator of yours. are you afraid to run naked once in a while?… pity the fool or is it Sw. Robot?
Swami Detective: You’ve been either watching too many detective movies during the Xmas break and/or drinking too much homemade hooch. Anyway, since when do you take seriously the mumblings of another bunch of insane sannyas posers, who happen to call “the Resort” their “home”– insane asylum is more accurate. You’re also a stubborn ass- time to move on little donkey.
Sw. Detective- yet another one with an obsessive “mission in life”. Have you been dating Shantam on the side?
From the round mail of Ma Prem Jeevan…
The typical Osho laughter..not available at “Any Amma´s Ashram..
1. HOW DO YOU DECIDE WHOM TO MARRY? (written by kids)
You got to find somebody who likes the same stuff. Like, if you like sports, she should like it that you like sports, and she should keep the chips and dip coming.
– Alan, age 10
-No person really decides before they grow up who they’re going to marry. God decides it all way before, and you get to find out later who you’re stuck with.
– Kristen, age 10
2. WHAT IS THE RIGHT AGE TO GET MARRIED?
Twenty-three is the best age because you know the person FOREVER by then.
– Camille, age 10
3. HOW CAN A STRANGER TELL IF TWO PEOPLE ARE MARRIED?
You might have to guess, based on whether they seem to be yelling at the same kids.
– Derrick, age 8
4. WHAT DO YOU THINK YOUR MOM AND DAD HAVE IN COMMON?
Both don’t want any more kids.
– Lori, age 8
5. WHAT DO MOST PEOPLE DO ON A DATE?
-Dates are for having fun, and people should use them to get to know each other. Even boys have something to say if you listen long enough.
– Lynnette, age 8 (isn’t she a treasure)
-On the first date, they just tell each other lies and that usually gets them interested enough to go for a second date.
– Martin, age 10
6. WHEN IS IT OKAY TO KISS SOMEONE?
-When they’re rich.
– Pam, age 7
-The law says you have to be eighteen, so I wouldn’t want to mess with that.
- – Curt, age 7
-The rule goes like this: If you kiss someone, then you should marry them and have kids with them. It’s the right thing to do.
- – Howard, age 8
7. IS IT BETTER TO BE SINGLE OR MARRIED?
It’s better for girls to be single but not for boys. Boys need someone to clean up after them.
– Anita, age 9 (bless you child )
And the #1 Favorite is …….
9. HOW WOULD YOU MAKE A MARRIAGE WORK?
Tell your wife that she looks pretty, even if she looks like a dump truck.
— Ricky, age 10
–
nice one bubbie..
though sorting out who supports which pro US anti commune pro anarcho capitalist anti communist conservativism osho conspiracy is making targeting my audience and placing a dividing line a little tricky between you and sherlock.. i mean you are both pro america , it seems , but you are anti government control and he is well… i have no idea …but somewhere on the statist right….sharia law is running behind with libertarian rightwing disestablismentarianism.
anyway..
have you seen the sea shepherds new anti japanese trimaran.. they are currently looking for crew…. and i thought of you.. no tuna burgers though…(all vegan) but loads of fun poking the slitty eyed japs up the bum….Australia is supporting the sea shepherd with a merchant ship this time…..plenty of rum on board…
shantam.. again your assessment criteria and strategy for revelation of identity is filled with inoperable inconsistency…as sd says..
i could get you to believe in me by posting any supporting evidence.. but you couldn’t prove that it is true.. anymore than you can prove you are who you say you are…..
i would write an interesting piece but last time i did for oshoworld about a year ago ..supported by keerti i presume…..after a month on their front page it got hacked…then reappeared here….
and whats your problem.Shanta (Censor) Claus. i’m not charging for my opinions..this is an opinion blog… feel free to keep saying what you want …. even inconsistently…
or perhaps i might just join you and start writing against myself under another name…eg
that prem martyn .. what a liar scoundrel and cock_roach.. a terrible fellow full of comedy links and irreverence….how unspiritual….
yours lovingly
from babeland….
to be clear .. i presume keerti supported my anti trademark tirade..
but i’m a loose cannon.. you cant predict how i’m gonna blow…
happy new year….
I actually read the whole of Swami Det’s massive comment. No excuses, just returned from a party and needed something to numb my mind.
I’ve never been in the German bakery, but I was a founding member of the first sannyasin bakery in Poona and if there is one lesson I learned about people who want to blow people up and are willing to sacrifice there lives to do it, it is this. You will not be able to stop the crazy bastards. America has hundreds of thousands of troops in Iraq and Afghanistan and they are still getting blown up. So what’s a bunch of Indian rapid response wallahs going to do if Al Queda wants to knock off a few westerners in maroon robes. Answer: nothing. Very unlikely it will happen. Even India has better targets than that. i’m not saying what those targets are. I don’t want that Islamic extremist Shahriar putting any crazy ideas into Shantam’s empty head.
Shantam, you don’t seem to understand – do you read anyone’s posts or just like to exercise your fertile imagination?
Please re-read my post of 6.50pm, first paragraph…
Now, how many contributors here whom you strongly disapprove of are using a false name?! No imagination, please – it’s all there, in black and white.
Do you now realise you’re making an utter fool of yourself?
Of course you don’t, you have an ill-concealed ‘anti-white’ agenda (product, no doubt, of a psycho-sexual-racial inferiority complex.)..So you’ll happily ignore whatever’s, er, just not ‘convenient’ to that agenda.
Simple really.
No wonder every other Osho site has banned you!!
Simple really.
No wonder every other Osho site has banned you!!
The above here say is from Meera´s adopted boy.!!
If you are in London..SD..meet any sannyasin..Make a little survey..Ask them whether they read Sannyasnews or not.
If yes, ask them..whose comments and posts they read thoroughly..
Most probably..it will be from
Yours Faithfully,
shantam
After that you can extend the survey where ever you go…
It is my love for white race, that i single out the cowards, the children leaked out from the intact condom..so afraid from day light, that they are always sliping out..so innocent and so victimised by the facist world that finally they get shelter in orphan sannyas asylum run by Lokesh and Satya deva, the run away sannyasins.
I ownder why this guy Satyadeva does not share his love and inspiration with his fellow brothers and sisters from the school of their mother meera…
I think it will be the right use of the energy..supporting a living Avatara..
False name is not that bad, if someone uses it to protect one´s modesty, one´s shyness etc.
But i am determined to rip off the Burqa worn by the cyber terrorists at Osho´´s site..
There over all abuse of every body including Osho; others can take it lying down..i am going to protest.
No such acts of ghastly cowardliness will pass through my eyes without a proper protest..
I agree with Shantam, as he is only sinciere contributor here on Sannyas News who devotes his answers to question and reason.
And ofcourse he has a true identity, unlike those hiding behind names and no courage to reveal themselves. Just cowards.
Yes Shantam, Blood is Thicker than water.
And i aso agree with snantam that those here who abuse our Master under false names should have the guts to reveal their true names, or be lambasted by other genuine readres here. These are the cowards who have spoilt this Sannyas News credibility, and the reason people like Arun, Rajneesh or Keerti have stopped contributing here. These mudslinging cowards, are even attacking Osho, and claim to be sannyasins, using filthy gutter language and rubbish.
Shantam Claus.. so you have been banned from many other sannyas sites.
Oh dear …banned from posting your opinions openly elsewhere.You naughty boy… And you shouldnt take up a second invented name of Park Rash to protect yourself.
Don’t be so obvious , get a better alias next time.
swami detective, your last posting was very short compare to previous one
, but very intresting , i was reading word by word , it took me only eight stright hours to finished reading it .
wow, man you got some real stuff to tell.
i am amazed how one can be so clear in what they think.
your posting gave so much richness to my being that you have no idea
it was little short , next time i hope that you post even longer because you carry so much wisdom.
Shantam, again you miss the entire point, you evasive little man…
Just ONE person of whom you disapprove (ie feel threatened by) and who uses a so-called ‘false name’ contributes here…Do you get it? Just ONE!!!
My take on this over-reactivity of yours is that you’re simply ‘rattled’ by coming up against strong disagreement and people who won’t ever water down their responses to how you come across at this place.
So ‘rattled’ are you that you’ve decided to try to assume the ‘moral high ground’ by crusading against ‘false names’ – when there actually exists no such problem! A ‘lying lawyer’ trick you picked up at the bar, perhaps?!
And now you and some other twits are busy pretending to be ‘protectors of Osho’s good name’! Perhaps he ought to have thought of that himself, do you think, while alive? You know what – he didn’t give a monkey’s!
Your lot are just the type of mediocrities who miss the whole point and start up yet another religious movement around a dead Master, another religion of ‘worshippers’, doomed to pervert the truth and mislead the people.
‘Well-meaning’ though…Oh yes…
‘The Path to Hell is…’Can you finish this well-known saying, Shantam? It rather suits you, sir, suits you nicely….
P.M. regarding the sea sheperd looking for a new crew, thanks for thinking of me but, if i were to join i’d probably mutiny, take control of the ship and ram it into the closest japper- fuckin-nese trawler… the sooner those bastards are sunk the better…. i’ll even bring a bottle of sake and toast them while watching them sink… in my dreams i guess… toodles
“reason people like arun, rajneesh…” says Prakash… “reason”people? rajneesh?…. you sir are another suffering from a brown acid trip…. a true mental defect…. the “resort” asylum’s doors are open, what are you waiting for?- step right in.
btw, osho loved getting mud in his eye… it would be rude of me not to throw any.
“using filthy gutter language”…. well, the gutter is a hellava lot cleaner than your house Prakash… at least the sewage gets washed away with the monsoon rains… having trouble with your plumbing dearie?
Now it’s all clear to me.. a revelation- as to why the numb nuts(prakash, shantam, anugrah) are so screwed up in the head…. Clogged up plumbing!!!!! You’re now known as- “The Backed Up Boys”…. the latest rave… the hottest new sannyas boy band…. Caution: Plunger in use(which end?)
“Without a proper protest”. Shantam- what is “proper” for some, is outright silly to others…. except in your case… just simply insane.
Anugrah- just marry the bugger already… your boner can be spotted all the way from here… he’s been on the hunt for a guy like you- don’t blow your chance
S.D. yes, shantam doesn’t get it…. obsessive complusiveness blocks any meaningful self- evaluation– anyone watching “Les Miserables” tonight?
anyone got any good meditations they aren’t using at the moment…
i’ve got some old second hand ones for sale or exchange..
here are the titles: followed by some worn instructions.
1) ‘Go inside’… and stay there..’
2) ‘ I’ve been out so long that I can’t remember what in looks like’,…Find a partner and gaze softly into eyes asking …’ remind me what are we supposed to be doing ‘.
3) ‘ Find the inner Parmartha ‘ and begin chaotic breathing and short ‘hacking’ cough.15 minutes. Followed by silence(several days) and a large investigation( ongoing until we get the bastard)
4) ‘Accept the formless nameless one’ ….as the payer of all electricity bills and security precautions.Lie down on mattress until website works again. Breathe.five breaths. then hit laptop repeatedly until joy is felt in the wallet.
5) ‘ Pursue the out of date argument in blogosphere ‘, as unto old stale food at the back of the fridge.Let go, loser.
6) ‘Focus the inner watcher ‘ ….on the outer blog writing as unto waiting for a bus…there wilt be another along in a minute.. or a bunch of them in one go…
7) ‘ Recite the 999 names of allah’ … and the one remaining reader of sannyas news repeatedly until someone bans you…
8) Give the swami detective extra brownie points for keeping his true name on the blog, without anyone raising any doubts…..
sw. detective and sw. prembubie, ————————best couple of of 2010
Shantam’s 11:31 comment shows yet another side to the idiot’s warped being…the completely egocentric side. What a buffoon!
Yes, Prakash, is definitely a figment of Shantam’s (the banned sperm eye) none-too-bright imagination. Anugrah has definitely dented his helmet but is still a long way off from winning the champion chump’s crown.
Anugrah, if you want to be SN’s chief numbskull you need to write more and bang your head harder against a granite boulder…you are not quite brain-damaged enough to compete with Sperm Eye Shantam.
SD,
If i feel threatened by the adverse opinions and disagreements, i should try to sabotage you or Lokesh, the two gentlemen, who are writing with their prevalent sannyas names.
It is not the case.
In my understanding of Osho..adverse opinions make the color box more colorful. Ad this is my constant attack against the ashram authorities, they have diverted Osho´s multi colored programme into a black and white movie.
It fits to the closed circuit mind of the “Drop Jesus, hold Osho”, kind of single book fanatics.
What a wonderful development is Osho´s collective world. in football grounds, few people are playing Table Tennis!
Comment at 11.31 PM.
Ego is like a cement in the bag. in general, it is useful.
but it becomes useless when accidently or williingly water falls on the bag, cement becomes like a stone…
There is nothing wrong to be egocentric as long as it is not curtaining the other people´s right to be, as they are.
Such powedered cement can mix and match with sand, water, iron, wood, for a complete symphony of constrcution on the earth.
People behind martyn and bubbie kind of fakes are what i will call, cement bags in the stone format.
Lokesh, don´t shout on Gyan parkash..
Why can´t you accpet that your writing does not bring the full tatse of,
“Coca Cola-the only one”, i mean Osho.
The cola mixed with Lucknow tap water will have no Fizz.. It may have quenched your thirst, but it has no tangy taste of Cola…
Any proud guest will feel uneasy to drink such cheap mixture, but yess..you can send the containers to your relatives in far away Africa..i think there something is better than nothing..
http://www.hindustantimes.com/Silence-as-sedition/H1-Article1-643956.aspx
Beautiful article, about freedom of expression, courage and silent ducks..
Worth a laugh, as one laughs in Osho´s discourses.
(From prem jeevan´s circular mail)
A man called Denis(martyn) wanted to buy a present for his new girlfriend.
They hadn’t been seeing each other for very long and she lived abroad. Denis consulted with his daughter and decided, after careful consideration, that a pair of good quality gloves would strike the right note… not too romantic and not too personal. Off he went with his daughter to Harrods and they selected a dainty pair of fur lined quality leather gloves. His daughter bought a pair of sexy knickers for herself at the same time.
Harrods had a free gift wrap offer but the assistant mixed up the two items, the daughter got the gloves and Denis unknowingly got the knickers.
Good old Denis sent off his gift wrapped present in a parcel with the following letter.
Dear Jennifer,
I chose these because I’ve noticed that you are not wearing any when we go out in the evenings. If it had not been for my daughter I would have
chosen the long ones with buttons, but she wears shorter ones (which are easier to remove).
These are a very delicate shade, but the lady I bought them from showed me the pair she had been wearing for the past three weeks and I hardly
noticed any marks.
I had her try yours on for me and she looked really smart in them even though they were a little bit tight on her. She also said that they rub
against her ring which helps keep it clean. In fact she hasn’t needed to wash it since she began wearing them.
I wish I was there to put them on for you the first time, as no doubt many other hands will touch them before I have a chance to see you
again.
When you take them off remember to blow into them a little bit because they will be naturally a little damp from wearing.
Just imagine how many times my lips will kiss them during the coming year.
All my love,
Denis (martyn) xxx
P.S. The latest style is to wear them folded down with a little bit of fur showing
shitnam.. i asked around london.. all sannyassins recognise me as their comuuty leedah …
they say that you were banned under the name parkash from many london centres.. and that there is no such person as shatman.. they couldnt believe anyone could exist who is so retarded… you’d have to invent him…
ps i dreamt of your ex wife the other day…she kept moaning …on and on…she went..ohhhhhh.. ahhhhh ohhhhhhh
..ohhhh…that shitnarse.. he never does the dishes, lives off his mum.on the internet all day…… lost all his money.. moan ..moan…. moan….
just wanted to share that ….
http://www.fuckforforest.com/en/about.html
its a late xmas present for all of you ..
Eat meat, meditate, love, share and be honest…
Message in public interest after seeing the life situation of Vegan like martyn.
I love cows and pigs..they are as they are without pretension…and share their life and death…
It will be a privelege to be born again as cow or a pig.. what a dignity in their life…
Asi have observed in India and same is in Europe, so called animal lovers are more cruel, arrogant, stubborn and with low emotional IQ compared to the meat eaters.
By using all kind of obsecentites for Osho, the man who was once their Master, even it was an accidental relation, simply shows..these people are simply blood suckers no better than meat eaters…
So if some of you who are reading this post enjoy the meat products, go on enjoying these, without listening to the cruel examples of so called Vegans..
It is quite remarkable how incredibly dumb Shantam and his chump pals are. Take for instance the storm in a tea cup about people writing under a nom de plume… a basic right in a democartic society. Who gives a shit about small potatoes such as that? Only idiots. The same idiots who determine by a person’s skin colour wether he is one of the boys or not. Racists no less. Then the racists kick up a fuss about some profane language directed at their guru, a man who loved to play with profane language. The racists get all outraged, murderous even, in the defense of a man who was completely non-racist. I wonder what Osho would have made of a bunch of racists hijacking his name for their cause.
PS The joke you posted is really awful, but I know why you posted it. The joke is full of sexual innuendos, something which your sexually repressed psyche is attracted to.
Quote: ‘P.S. The latest style is to wear them folded down with a little bit of fur showing.’ How trite and it isn’t even true. Hair is most definitely out with a shout.
The thing about Osho’s jokes has little to do with the jokes themselves. What was funny about his jokes was who they were delivered by. Most of Osho’s jokes were awful. What was brilliant was how the man tied them in to what he was talking about in his discourses with often hilarious results.
Now the chumps tell the same kind of naff jokes, thinking they are funny and sadly it is quite the opposite. Poor things just don’t get the punchline….the joke is on you.
When I for the first time read the latest OshoWiki Dumpster prized thrown away treasure, I found that a cursory reading by someone with a propensity to prematurely judge could easily form the ill-formed view that I have criticized Osho. I would ask you to take another look if I thought that would be of any use. I have no intention of bothering to make such a request.
Mr Smartyn, I do not follow the road rules, I follow the road. Your smart little mind will form a few patterns that seem to make sense, and then I will take an unexpected path. You will then think I am being inconsistent, stupid, weird, just plain confusing, or perhaps you initial conclusions are in need of revision, or even reversal. Actually I am simply calling the lay of the land as I see it. I have never understood the intellectual divisions you speak of. It took me a while to realise that the reason is they do not exist. They are fantasy invented by those who like to frame and control, and they are consumed by those who like to conform. It is a cycle of control and subservience imposed and consumed with blind intent.
Lokesh, it’s the matador maroon that is the fundamental problem….too close to red for a charging bull. I think the chief issue at the nuts of the oval table in the blue room needs to be What is the new colour scheme to deceive the world and its new seekers? My suggestion is moron orange.
Love Bubbles you really are too effervescent. No I have not been dating Shantam on any side. Jealousy can do strange things to a normally clear thinking mind.
Shantam I have no comment but since you are so pushy, Swami Detective is my real fake name, and all I can say is I am being very sincere on this. Any inconsistency you perceive is your projection. You say you aren’t going to take this lying down, and are going in for a proper protest. Sounds straight out of Swami BeenLayden’s handbook. What you got in mind?
Anugrah, who are you? Are you me in disguise?
Swami Goan Potthash, you have just confirmed to the world that yes, someone can really be as stupid as made out in the dumpster.
Anyone read about the intense manhunt for LeT operatives in Mumbai the other day? The concern in Mumbai was that LeT operatives, possibly with the intent of launching another siege style attack, had penetrated the city. Headley, the Mumbai siege surveillance mastermind and visitor (or is that sannyasin?) of The Resort, is considered to have close ties with LeT.
The threats from terrorism, and the serious nature of them, are current. To wish away their existence by blinding believing The Resort is invulnerable will not work. It may work for your blind religious adherents, but it will not fool a hard-core militant. Actually it would not even fool a disorganized band of the disaffected, who might be psychologically prone to making an impromptu attack. It will also not work to blame the people that point this out to you, as if such people are informing militants of (beyond) top secret information.
It is curious to me that the government’s Quick Response Team of commandoes cannot enter The Resort to gain foresight in preparation for a worst case scenario, yet people like Headley can come and go as they please. Sure you cannot necessarily blame The Resort for terrorists enjoying a vacation wondering around the lush and invigorating surrounds. Still, there is a remarkable and perplexing contrast to be noted, especially when the official resort spokesperson either refuses to comment, or dismisses such factors as memorabilia.
The situation is not obvious to people who run The Resort. It is obvious that the reason is they are out of touch with reality, and have no ability to view the situation with detached objectivity. No doubt it would be easy to deceive any number of faithful adherents that those who are trying to protect Osho and his legacy are actually co-conspirators to terrorism. The foundations of terrorism are indeed fully set, and the structure built on it has all the trimmings. How easy it is to become an insane religious terrorist(s).
Here is the next OshoLeaks dumpster dump of informative obviousism. It is by no means incidental that this dump is classified as being beyond top secret.
In response to recent article: Amrito’s View of Osho
If you care to look into Osho’s conception of mysticism you will find nothing other than bewilderment and atemporality.
Doing so you will find it laughably obvious how Amrito is projecting his own spiritual ideas about Osho onto Osho. It is very easy isn’t it Amrito. You are right, I agree with you on what I must note is the first occasion.
Even if we accept the proposition that some people are ready to become a friend of the ‘Master’, what about others? So Osho leaves the body and then what? Apparently, from your perspective Osho wants them to forget (and forgive) him. However, how hard is it to do a little archive search and find a plethora of examples supporting the alterative hypothesis: remember me when I am gone, or always speak of me as if in the present.
According to DevaRaj (Amrito), Raja yoga is superior to Bhakti yoga. Karma yoga does not rate too highly at the resort either. Funny how Osho was spot on with the name. I would suggest that Raj stop playing Deva and stop trying to run Osho’s legacy the royal way. There is no evidence to suggest that the view of Osho as proposed by DevaRaj has any chronological consistency with Osho’s teachings and actions. There is also no evidence to suggest that this conception of Osho that transpired and was disseminated by DevaRaj and Jayesh has any legitimacy as an authentic element of Osho and his legacy. Evidence suggests it is a twisted exhumation based on wishful and delusional thinking.
Osho never had a consistency about his teachings or his conduct that could in anyway lead to a meaningful aspect being picked up and polished at will. This is more so the case if this aspect purports to represent the whole. It is clear that DevaRaj is trying to do just this. People will select and represent different aspects of Osho that they are in tune with. This is different to taking this out of context, and also different from claiming it transcends all context. DevaRaj is doing both.
Amrito, here is a little clue for you. When some people become sufficiently arrogant and think that they know better than the Master, then they develop a deep longing to become friends with the Master. You see it puts them on the same level as the Master. It is a step along the way to the goal of taking over from the Master.
Of course there is another situation where a Master might like to consider a seeker as a friend. Such an instance would arise if for example the seeker had a powerful intellectual acumen that was on par, or perhaps greater, than the Master. However, since Amrito is clearly lacking in this regard, he naturally falls into the previous category.
Twenty-five centuries down the road and what, there is an abrupt transition? Osho has been very much a guru, very much the opposite, and very much all in between. Still there is no clear chronological sequence to this. Osho was very much one thing to one person (or a certain type of person). He was also many things to may people (and to many types of persons).
Let us say that it is now the year 2499, and Jayesh and Amrito are great devotees of Osho. The clock strikes twelve and the dials churn into the magically configuration of 2500 as clearly understood by Buddha himself. Jayesh and Amrito now become friends of the Master.
Sorry folks but the comedy does not work this way. It works in the reverse. Jayesh and Amrito would like to be the Master, and in the least would like to attain the status of friend. Hence they absorb with glee any statement from Osho about become a friend of the Master. Osho must be right when he speaks of this because Buddha himself understood that this would occur. Amrito said Osho said Buddha said that 2500 years down the track brings us to…blah blah blah! It is almost as if Jayesh and Amrito are self-appointed chosen people as predicted by Buddha and authenticated by Osho. This would be comical if the result were not so tragic.
My view is that some people surrender to a Master, and then grow to the point that they are strong enough to walk alone, and then the Master sets them free. As the seeker grows stronger they want to be free of the Master, and feel angry at their own neediness. They are set free and learn to stand alone. However they also view their past surrender in a negative light, thus failing to appreciate what the Master has done. This is based on a misunderstanding of what the Master did for them. Such a person is lacking in perspective.
They are ignorant of their own process and are vulnerable to projecting this false idea of the journey onto other seekers. They are also ignorant of other seekers who I would suggest are more the surrendering or loving type, and for them this acts as the cornerstone of the path. These are the people that Osho was speaking to when he says things like never forget me. Amrito and Jayesh and friends have forcefully dissected what is in crude mathematical terms one half of Osho’s teachings. It is by no means a coincidence that this other half are self-labelled as Osho lovers.
I know a lot of people in both camps secretly humour the protestors because they have the superior understanding that this is just a big device. It is part of the bigger play of leela. The problem with this is that such a device is clearly not part of the set-up left by Osho. So whose device is it? In both camps people who own this view like to partly own this understanding because they were smart enough to see it. You are wrong and have deluded yourselves.
Of course if you are not egoistic enough to consider yourself as a key instigator in the device then you must have a mentor that you hold close to your heart. Well if you look into the matter Osho certainly is not that mentor, so who is it then? On what authority have they gone against Osho’s legacy? You have fooled yourselves.
The story about the Master and the resident cat is most apt. The sangha became divided into two warring camps, and each one wanted the resident cat. The Master cut the cat in half and gave half each to the two warring factions.
If you cut the package in half you do not end up with two halves of Osho. In crude mathematical terms Osho is the synthesis of two halves. From what I have seen Osho tried everything possible to synthesise rather than divide and conquer, yet somehow this gets lost in the self-serving doctrine of fighting the other.
Amrito is a boring Osho impersonator who, like anyone else in the debate camp, throws their Osho quotes around to back up their own projected ideas of spirituality onto Osho. Jayesh and Amrito have been successful in their deluded task because they are in positions of authority. Of course this has to be tempered by the knowledge that they in part forced there way into positions of authority. The amount to which they were a party to their own appointments is worthy of thorough investigation. Their positions of authority also has to be tempered by the knowledge that their actions and understanding are riddled with inconsistencies and lies that belong in the realms of psychosis and megalomania.
The movement has taken the way it has in large part because many people believe the Jayesh and/or Amrito are/is enlightened. From what I have observed of their actions and intellectual ruminations, if this is the case it is my solemn intent to become Unenlightened. Might I suggest that if you are also enlightened, or perhaps heading that way, to take a long, detached look at what his really going on, within and without.
I will give here one example of this process of detached observation. Jayesh and Amrito, two great enlightened beings that jointly share the task of spreading Osho’s vision to a belligerent humanity, actually differ on a very fundamental metaphysical issue. Amrito would have it that you should forget that Osho lived, whilst Jayesh would have it that you can (and ultimately should) connect with the physically expired, living Osho. Amrito says forget Osho lived. Jayesh says forget Osho died. So what is the truth you wise guys? The truth is you have been exposed has chief comedians in a great tragedy.
This issue has been rehashed about as much as the copyright trademark stuff. Next!
Lokesh, did you say just before that something was very unlikely?
This the reason, i like to hit on Lokesh because he represents the same fanatic arrogant and superficial wisdom about Osho as Dr. Amrtio, his other countrymen does.
Alas, inner wisdom is not connected with the thesis writing, in that case every Ph.D. holder would have become mysticaly wise.
I wonder what kind of greeze such people have on their hands, if they touch flower, it loses its shine, if they speak about Osho..he becomes as toothless lion as some Advaita teacher from Lucknow.
As far as Fur ic concerned you are right Mr. Lokesh. Even the blind living on the sea shores know…fur is out..Brown and Gilette make pullovers of cash out of the hairy thing..
Swami Det, good post that I enjoyed reading. I understand what you are saying but simply cannot relate to all this info about Amrito and Jayesh, because it has nothing to do with my life and from the way it sounds I’m grateful for that.
What it makes me think is that Osho really got under people’s skin to the extent that they will live with that for the rest of their lives. Heap powerful wampum!
Amrito says forget Osho lived. Jayesh says forget Osho died. So what is the truth you wise guys?
Seems like Dr. and financer are the Karmic sons of a monk who was wondering lives to reach to the pinacles of truth.
Rest of the disciples are only the secondry participants, the extras dancing on a bollywood set.
No wonder, Osho film is shown as a 30 seconds marlboro documentary in the, all tickets sold out theater of Buddha and the Jesus.
I’ve been called many things in my life, but ‘fanatic’ never.
Overenthusiastic zeal is without doubt your depatment, Shantam, not mine. Mirror mirror on the wall…
Jayesh and Amrito have been successful in their deluded task because they are in positions of authority. Of course this has to be tempered by the knowledge that they in part forced there way into positions of authority. The amount to which they were a party to their own appointments is worthy of thorough investigation. Their positions of authority also has to be tempered by the knowledge that their actions and understanding are riddled with inconsistencies and lies that belong in the realms of psychosis and megalomania.
Some where one has to understand the psychology of Osho too.
Osho was the child of Imperialist India. Seems like, To see the ruler class as His disciples was the biggest intoxication for the Hindi belt Master.
May be he forget the traits of those Britishers who came as merchants and than turn the whole country into their colony.
Fate of Osho´s vision is similar to the fate of mother India..
May be it will bounce back..as India is doing…
sherlock… you are a tadge too adrenal for a simple being.. and awesomely dexterous.. either you are a computer programme stuck on automatic or you have a team of chimps writing for you… when you crap do you use the whole roll too ..or the whole pack of six…
ps in shantam claus you have a friend for unused hormones….
he actually approves of your charmless drivel.
elementary ….
Fanatic i am using in the sense, someone who is unable to recheck his answer sheets. A student who is damn sure, everything he writes is not worthy of rechecking..
Fanatic also i am using in the sense, when someone does not use the power of inner contemplation regarding one´s own level of wisdom and motives…
Fanatic also i am using for the people, who think they are the best, rest are normals.
For me that person is fanatic, who thinks Hindi, English, Bangali, french etc.what so ever is there language is the best language and rest are so so..
Fanatic is also the person who confines Osho´s vast space into the level of his window…
It can be me too..it can be everybody else too.
Time to look at oneself retrospectively…
Another question Shantam dear. What do you call someone who passes negative judgements on a human being just because they happen to have a different colour of skin than you, you pompous ass.
PS Buy a dictionary instead of making up new meanings for words that already have perfectly good meanings. Your stupidity is infinite.
“…he same fanatic arrogant superficial wisdom about osho..” says Shantam. say what? so then you must think your comments are full of wisdom and sly metaphors regarding osho’s teachings… I think you’re the worst case of a person being in denial that i’ve ever encountered… your father’s death really sent you over the deep end…. the insane asylum in pune, a.k.a. the “resort” doors are open .. please step in.
Sw. Detective, a.k.a. Tricky Dick- again, what the fuck do you care about the loonies running the resort asylum? I’ve called for the demolition of the resort many times in the past and present… if it’s leveled to the ground without any people in it, that’s fine.. the loons can find some where else to set up camp- maybe join up in Goa with Sw. Loon Rajneesh.. he could use the cash… It’s called- Time for a fresh start.. yours and others’ obsession with how the past has been polluted and raped by the likes of Amrito and his nuts at the resort , is just that, the past. just like Shantam’s obsession with identity all due to his ego being hurt and your ego being hurt because some idiots can’t or won’t follow tradition. Bury the past with regards to traditions and rituals… You’re created a religion out all of this and that was The Old Man’s last thing he ever wanted to happen … So I think you’ve become a wee bit psychotic in your head trip… Better for you to become a homeless junkie…. the end for you will come a lot quicker and be rather painless. The Resort psychos, can spin right round chasing their rich fluffed up tails until their money runs out…. no sweat by me…. “Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me”. “won’t get fooled again”.
“Ole’ Sperm Eye” Shantam, doesn’t need hormones- since his fertilization those hormones have been pumping steady and without fail…. he needs a plunger to unclog his arteries to his brain… backed up plumbing… good money to be made as a plumber
if one cares to read shantam’s post on the “notice board”…. you’ve definitely slipped up pal…. you’re actually a fanatical christian disguised as an osho-ite.. Now, who’s the real fraud and coward posting here? Who sent you? Pope Kraut I ? Desmond Tutu? Oral(Sex) Roberts? you’re so busted.
Bubbie says,
maybe join up in Goa with Sw. Loon Rajneesh.. he could use the cash… It’s called- Time for a fresh start..
By mistake Bubbie has something positive to say about Rajneesh ??
no dickhead, it’s called being sarcastic.
Shantam is damaged goods for certain but one of Bubbie’s comment made me realize that Shantam might be suffering from mercury poisoning…who knows, maybe he ate too many contamoburgers or something. Perhaps chelation therapy might help to move those heavy metals out of his brain that are causing his serial dementia.
It really is quite tragic when you think about it. I have to sign out now….I…I am feeling too emotional about this and the tears are bluring the screen….sniff….sniff.
Sarcastic; how much sarcasm one can generate from a fake identity, not more than a castrated man willing to make children…
Name less foot soldiers of a Scottish commander in chief… playing hunters by hiding behind a pile of cow dunk. Should i say, you are making your ancestry proud.
on the other side, i am looking forward, who will write a piece for new thread at sannyasnews.
I don´t think, sannyasnews is the first, second or the third choice of some new writer, who wants to share his jounrney with Osho on a public platfom.
Writing at sannyasnews is almost like going for a sight seeing in Afganistan, who will dare. unless it is a mission to be accomplished.
Few lawless loose cannons and a war lord..Lokesh fits quite well in the company of bubbie and Bros.
Write what so ever you write, you the impotant souls behind martyn and bubbie..but dare to write with your known name.
I know you can´t.
If your old mother reads such posts, she will blame the living or dead husband in her life for such rotten sons.
If by chance, some women in your life reads, she will also feel ashamed. Even a sex worker has a better taste to chose a life partner than to have some masked gunman sorry cyber abuser.
As i can imagine, these two near retirement age low caste creatures have nobody in their life..nothing to lose but their shame.
shant-prakash you’ve been banned from sannyas centres.. talk about that.. it will be very interesting to know about these allegations of sexual molestation….
http://ibnlive.in.com/#hp_player3
May be a woman´s courage will inspire these low caste Bubbies and martyns, to come clean with their identities and not to hide their abuses behind the veil of annonymity.
Lokesh and Sd, the sympathisers of these criminal minds may be can check their spiritual mentors…if their soul is unable to wake up without an alarm clock…
I really salute the person behind the fake Frank and Anand…after all he has withdrawn himself with dignity..
This also proves, independent thinkers in the world of sannyas will not dare to write in an interactive format, as many of the bubiies are not ripe for self control and therefore censorless media.
Shantam has gone into warp factor 666. His condensor tubes will no’ take it. Scottish commander in chief Lokesh, star log 2012.
Shantam asks:”… how much sarcasm can one generate from a fake identity…? Answer: ’till it makes you puke… and since you haven’t puked yet, I’ll continue.
Shantam : I get my coffee from a place here in the states called- “Cow Dunk n’ Donuts”, them got sum great cow pies too!!!
“… bubbie and Bros.” hmmm, shantam, how did you guess the name of my new espresso place.. opening soon, the verbal abuse is free with every order of espresso and biscotti, before 11 A.M.
Scuttlebutt has it that Frank had a brain hemorrhage and now is only permitted to entertain at the resort or sannyas centers worldwide…. a match made in heaven….
aye, captain, ole’ sperm eye has mutineed and now has control of the ship… he is out to propagate his holy lineage… better contact the dalai lama, Ohura.
P.M.- So, this is true? shantam/prakash is banned from sannyas centeres? Sexual molestation? if so, it figures.
Cowardly Shantam, answer the man’s question/allegations…. what is your real name? where were you born? Where’s your green card? Deport the son of a bitch!!! what’s under that turban?
P.M. that fuckforforest place… do we have to bring our own condoms? or do they provide? I travel light and don’t want to be bogged down with excessive weight…. I’m a cheap bastard also.
bubbie we are in the twilight zone according to cap’n Lokesh, and strangely as Scotty says ,no one can tell fact from fiction on this planet….
in fact swami defective was beamed down earlier to make a report…which on second thoughts was not the best decision for the crew… who are still exchanging user friendly meditations to pass the time….
Bones’ medical ward is currently filled by women crew recovering from the unwanted attention of mucus smelling androids known as shantprickasses…
and
I’m certain that all the allegations have to be answered… before we get to the other side of uranus….
bubbie …the condoms are hand knitted from hemp and bark….
I would like to bring this discussion back to talking about Osho and his ideas.
Thoughts on Osho and his movement.
1. I think that Osho’s distinction, what sets him apart from others is that he is an innovator. That is his defining characteristic. Osho has brought a revolution in thought and ideas in the field of philosophy. He has successfully created a synthesis of modern, western values and ideas and religion in a way that no one before him has done, although I would point out that Gurdjieff was taking steps in this direction. I think that it was because of this that he received so much opposition to his ideas from the religious people.
2. Both Osho and Ayn Rand have been called a cult and I would like to address this issue. In my opinion Christianity uses the word cult and cult leader for any personality and set of ideas that can make a person leave the christian fold.
3. I think Osho with his charismatic personality and fiery oratory is an individual who is impossible to forget once you have met him. (by met I mean acquaintance with his ideas of course.) He will haunt you in your dreams.
4. Regarding Osho’s revolutionary idea of there being no conflict between the body and the soul. This is a very radical and revolutionary standpoint. This is one of Osho’s great innovations and conributions to the world of philosophy. In the past either a person has been religious and saw a conflict between the body and the soul or a person has been materialistic like Charvaka and Ayn Rand (whose philosophies are in many ways the same to the point where I would say that Ayn Rand is a modern day Charvaka.) and rejected the spiritual completely. The catholic church can say that there is no conflict between reason and faith (which there is.) but it cannot say that there is no coflict between the body and the soul and is seen by its opposition to sex before marriage, abortion, birth control etc. etc. (although it’s position has changed a little recently on issue of condoms, all the same it has no place in the future. As the very insightful poet Aleister Crowley said in one of his poems “your church shall flower no further hour.” And this was said in the late 1890s mind you.)
5. On the statement of the catholic church that there is no conflict between reason and faith and Osho’s statement that there is no conflict betwee the body and the soul. The statement of the Catholic Church arises out of defeat. It has been defeated therefore it says that there is no conflict between reason and faith, whereas Osho has not been defeated, his statement arises out of victory not defeat. This is also the reason why Osho’s movement has such vitality to it, as opposed to Catholisism and Christianity more broadly which has experienced defeat after defeat at the hands of reason, individual rights and capitalism.
I see Shahriar is endeavouring to steer SN in a new direction. A serious discussion about Osho and his ideas on SN might sound like an intelligent idea but I doubt it. However, I did check out Shahriar’s unsung heroine, Ayn Rand, and came across this fine statement.
‘The role of art in human life is to transform man’s widest metaphysical ideas, by selective reproduction of reality, into a physical form—a work of art—that he can comprehend and to which he can respond emotionally.’
Now that I can relate to.
As for the questions you pose Shariar, they strike me as being the same old same old thoughts, recycled for the umpteenth time and unlike Ayn Rand’s concise and inspirational declaration I find nothing in them to which I can respond emotionally.
shariar.. here’s a clue…
aloneness in american suburbia is not yet a complete spiritual path though American Beauty was epic in its attempts …..but i’m awaiting your final reports….of the state you are in….
perhaps you ought to see Todd Solondz ‘Happiness’ and his recent ‘Life During Wartime…’
i think we should have a remembrance service for Frank.. and a collection for his favourite charity….
what religion was he ?
And while you are at it why not order a copy of my new book. Now available on Amazon. Yes, of course this is a shameless plug, and remember all proceeds go to Cambodian landmine victims. Hey! It has a photo of sannyasins on the cover. Find out why.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=a9_sc_1?rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Aborderline+dreamtime&keywords=borderline+dreamtime&ie=UTF8&qid=1293709714
Dear Shantam please copy and paste this link and send to all your global friends who speaky English. Thank you, my brown-skinned brother.
http://www.amazon.com/Borderline-Dreamtime-Luke-Mitchell/dp/1907294937/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1293709977&sr=8-1
Is it hard cover or soft? I ran out of wood for my stove, wondering if it burns fast or slow…. any left overs please send them to me…. Have a happy new year… cheers
P.M. seems your accusations about Shantam have driven him off to nether land or is it neverland? Where Jacko is waiting to console him.
It’s a soft cover, but I’m sorry Bubbie my books are soaked in a non-inflammable solution to prevent evil people like you and Martyn from burning them.
Yes, all quiet on the SN front. I heard Shantam is cruising the gay bars in Freiburg with his new love interest, a Russian woman called Iva Branemmorage.
A.K.A. “The Girl from U.N.C.L.E.”
Since there appears to be a lack of reader contribution I thought I might get an entire front-end loader scoop’s worth of quality archives from the Osho Wiki Dumpster bin. It is possible to find some of this material on Sannyasnews. However, most of the larger reports used to be on either Sannyasnews.com or on OshoWorld.com, but have never returned from mysterious disappearances.
A little over a year ago Harri Om made a significant number of contributions to Oshoworld.com. Prem Abhay then also made a contribution. Strangely, soon after this, the OshoWorld site shut down to some extent. (I cannot recall if the whole site shut down for a time, or perhaps just the news section). The news articles were no longer accessible. After a while, the news section was up and running, and the entire video and audio archive of Osho was also available. Previously this was disallowed by OIF on infringement of copy-write grounds.
When you go through the news archives on the site, still there is a large gap in the archives that reflects the time just prior to the site shutting down. The archives mysteriously disappeared from OshoWorld’s site, and have not since returned. If you go to the site you will now find a large gap in the archives. Sannyasnews now also has a large gap in their archives after their site was hacked.
On SannyasNews firebrand Swami Detective (that’s me of course) came back from extended leave. His first article had little directly to do with Osho. His second article is already in this current chat stream. I repeat it here as the first to come out of the front-end loader’s scoop. Prem Abhay’s contribution on OshoWorld is the second to come out of the front-end loader’s scoop. A lot of Harri Om’s articles are further down, mixed up with his (or her) subsequent chat on Sannyasnews.
Harri Om had a brief run on OshoWorld as a prolific contributor. After the drama on the site, Harri Om’s articles never returned from the void. He (or she) then popped up on Sannyasnews. Some of Harri Om’s chat on Sannyasnews was found in the dumpster. I do not know why that is, but that is not for me to decide.
Harri Om started out on OshoWorld with a blazing fire-brand sermon popping up on the News section almost every other day. Prem Abhay added a little sweetener, and then shortly afterwards the News section went down.
So, the first two articles shown here were current on both websites at the time of mysterious disappearance, and were soon followed by a re-emergence of both OshoWorld and Sannyasnews. Yet they are similarly part of a void in the archives on both sites. What, will Sannyasnews start offering free text, audio, and video archives of Osho’s complete and un-doctored works?
It is most interesting that both articles have a very similar subject matter. They both strongly feature Doc Amrito in a starkly sinister fashion. The first article, dumped onto Sannyasnews just before it was ‘hacked’, looked at the controversial issue of Osho’s death. The second article looked at the Doc’s involvement in drinking water contamination at the resort (on OshoWorld). The third article, which made a sudden appearance on Sannyasnews, (I think) featured on OshoWorld soon before the shut-down. The article is entitled Who Really Poisoned Osho. You can be rest assured that this article could be interpreted as featuring Doc Amrito in a most sinister light.
This is all unusually dark, however it is also unusually coincidental. I don’t like coincidences.
These are original transcripts extracted from the secretly located Osho Wiki Dumpster’s bin that lies hidden at an undisclosed location underneath a certain person’s bed in a certain person’s marble bedroom.
Would someone please explain what the deal is? My investigations are incomplete otherwise.
Swami Detective
Here are the archives, first, second, third, etc. If there is no truth in these, then why do they seem to be part of a pattern of forced disappearance? Perhaps just coincidence, though again, I do not like coincidences. There is something that disturbs someone (or some group of people) in these three articles (in my opinion). Likely this is the same with a lot of the other chat.
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This is the second dump of publicly available information into The private black hole (otherwise known as The Source by all you wise people here). This information was impersonally passed onto me by Swami Julia_ As_ange! Just to let you known that Swami Jul_an A_sange’s name has been professionally air brushed to fool only the stupidest of left wing nutters that he actually cares about exposing people to retribution by authoritarian and puritanical regimes.
Please note that ‘nutters’ refers to millions of people, including everyone here at SunYak’sBum News (otherwise known as Son Y’re ‘n Ass News).
For all you information hacks looking for the next slice of wisdom and ecstasy, Wikileaks has changed its name to WikiPiddle. Also, in the interest of liberation of the Inner-Circle from two and a half men, Sannyasnews has a sister city cited here for the first and ever lasting time as sassy MaYassNews. Swami Jul_an Ass_nge also made two quick passing cynicisms as we briefly passed each others space junk in our own back yard. The first thing he (or she) noted was that everyone should stop leaking information about his sordid sex life because that is private information. The second thing he (or she) noted was that the Bank of America board and the Osho Inner-Circle should resign before the next meeting of both boreds. Stay tuned, and do what every you do, but as an undercurrent do just one other think, don’t be board. (For all those lefties who missed that one, it is a slight of hand reference to the good ol’saying, “as thick as two planks of plankton”).
Here is the second rotten smelly dumpster treasure. Lap it up you lap-dancing loopy loner auto-canoodlers, and please stop Osho WikiPiddling.
Osho’s death controversy demands answers even today
0 Comments | DNA : Daily News & Analysis; Mumbai, Jan 19, 2010 | by Vaidya, Abhay
Twenty years after he died, the controversy surrounding Osho’s death on January 19, 1990 has still not been resolved with many followers seeking answers to key elements in the official story.
Within and outside discussion groups on the Internet, Osho’s followers are questioning the official version about Osho’s death and the purported instructions that he left behind for the conduct of the multi-million dollar commune after him.
The official version that he died of thallium poisoning administered during his prison term in the United States is being questioned on discussion groups such as sanyas.org. Many of his followers say that the mystic never showed any deterioration in his health for at least two years after his return from the US. Osho’s followers are also questioning the control exerted on the commune’s affairs and properties since his death by the British-born physician and powerful commune administrator Amrito (Dr John Andrew) and the even more powerful Canadian Michael O’Byrne, known as Jayesh.
It is well known in commune circles that Amrito and Jayesh were the only two persons present at Osho’s bedside when he died in Pune on January 19, 1990. Also, that it was Amrito who first propounded the thallium poisoning theory. Amrito and the commune’s press in-charge Amrit Sadhana backed out of an interview promised to DNA on Wednesday last.
Amrito insisted that he did not wish to discuss the past and that the only thing that mattered were Osho’s words.
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The purpose here is to examine what side of the fence Osho’s personal physician sits on, and to provide a summary of my recent involvement with the resort.
The contamination of drinking water was (I assume) first identified in the monsoon of 2004. All the drinking water stations were closed for several weeks. When a sannyassin engineer (Swami Mahasukh) began opening the water stations, there was still periodic contamination of this drinking water. I approached a number of people about my concerns. I sent a copy of some test results to Amrito. There was an apparent technical problem with Amrito contacting me at the ‘Hygiene’ email account. However he could send them to my coordinator. I received at least one email from Amrito. I do not recall the contents of the email.
After January of 2006, I approached Amrito and expressed my concerns about the water treatment system. I said that the consulting microbiologist had explained to me that the 2005 monsoon contamination was worse than the preceding year. I also said that I had changed to drinking resort water, and had been diagnosed with amoebic dysentery. He told me that it was absolutely essential that the water be completely clean, and that he would look into the matter.
In mid-January 2006 I left Amrito a copy of my report into health and safety concerns at the resort. A large part of this report was directed towards addressing water issues. In February of 2006 I phoned Amrito from Bangkok to confirm that he had received my report, and to ask for his feedback. He said that he had received my report, and that it was important to address the problem with the water prior to the (2006) monsoon. He also said that the other issues in the report needed addressing.
In late 2006 I made efforts to contact Amrito and resort management, asking for further feedback about to what extent the issues in the report had been addressed. I never received any reply and this gradually led me to assume that the likely scenario is that a lot of important issues (including water) may have been ignored.
I decided to try and make sannyassins in general aware of the hidden problems at the resort. I opened an information website (nomindspiration.com). Soon after opening the site I received an email (early 2007) from Amrito saying that some people feel that the resort is the last place I should be right now.
It is a possible that Amrito’s positive response to my Bangkok phonecall was merely an effort to placate me. However from the above information it is reasonably to conclude that Amrito is well aware of the problem with contamination of drinking water at the resort. I understand that he is meticulous with personal hygiene, and also secured funding to upgrade the water treatment system at the inception of Pune II. He is a medical doctor, and has a deep interest in the effects of food and water-borne illnesses in India.
There are many advantages of not calling a spade a spade and getting kicked out like I did. The manner in which I have approached the resort has been one that isn’t necessarily conducive to dialogue. However I would like to make mention that this is in direct response to the way I was ruthlessly dealt with by resort management. In order to remain at the resort, no doubt a considerable level of diplomatic skills is required. The trade-off is between gaining from being in the know (so to speak), and the loss of being excessively diplomatic and ‘nice’.
Amrito appears to take a very firm stance with respective to drinking water contamination. He is also well aware that there have been entrenched problems with drinking water contamination. He appeared to support investigating and correcting the problem. Perhaps he does not have the (financial) decision making authority?
In December 2007 I travelled to Pune, went to the main gate of the Osho International Meditation Resort, and started handing out a report outlining drinking water contamination at the centre. I was for this peaceful exercise assaulted. I then wrote an article titled Notice of Eviction, an article that has been posted on the Sannyasnews website. It is interesting to note that soon after I plastered this article all over Koregaon Park, I was assaulted a second time.
I am not aware of any action taken by the police with respect to the two complaints I lodged. Both assaults started in the area of the main gate, and so the video surveillance would have captured this. This video evidence will fit exactly with what I have documented in my complaints to police.
During my stay in Pune I was verbally threatened with being beaten; I have been pushed and punched; I have been threatened with a broom stick, sticks, metal rods, and possibly a disguised threat with a knife.
My information site has moved from “nomindspiration.com” to “oshobuddhism.blogspot.com”.
I am now seeking legal advice to determine my next course of action.
Love and yahoo,
Prem Abhay
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Who Really Poisoned Osho?
The idea of Osho being poisoned by United States authorities makes for a good story, but as has been regularly pointed out, it does not fit with Osho’s circumstances. For the two years following The Ranch break-up Osho at least appeared to be in reasonably health. He has admittedly said that since that time he has felt some deterioration in his health. However what does not make sense is the dramatic turn of events that occurred when Osho had a minor ear infection that simply would not heal. As explained by Osho, he spent the next 7 weeks gravelly ill in a battle of life and death. It was this sudden and rapid deterioration, of which he never seemed to recover from, that struck me.
During his returning to better health discourse he kept repeating 7 weeks, and also kept referring to it all starting with an ear infection. This discourse was given on the 6th November, 1987. Hence 7 weeks prior to this takes us to around the 19th of September, 1987. The unusual thing about the minor ear infection is that it simply would not heal.
There have been many theories of how Osho was poisoned, with the most notable one being that of the heavy metal Thallium poisoning. Also, it has been noted that it takes around 8 weeks for the Thallium to disappear from the body. Dr Amrito, Osho’s personal physician was of the view that it could have been fluorocarbon. Osho no doubt valued Dr Amrito’s opinion – as Osho was fond of saying, Dr Amrito is a fellow of the Royal Society of Physicians in England, and the youngest member at that. There were many other professional opinions, and there was also the notion of Nitrous Oxide poisoning – excess usage in the dental chair over a long period.
The tact taken in this report differs from all previous accounts that I am aware of. For me it was always the ear infection which stood out (apart from the 7 weeks). It was not until I discovered the brilliance of Shakespeare that I started wondering.
In Shakespeare’s ‘Hamelet’ Claudius poisoned Hamlet’s father by pouring a vial of a deadly poison into his ear while he was having an afternoon nap: ”with juice of cursed hebenon in a vial, and in the porches of my ears did pur the leperous distilment…that swift as quicksilver … courses through the natural gates and alleys of the body…Thus was I, sleeping, by a brother’s hand, of life, of crown, of queen, at once dispatched.”
It was a discovery of the time that it was possible for fluid to pass from the middle ear to the back of the nose and throat. It was thought that this was caused by an ear infection causing a membrane to perforate. Hence it was known that a poison administered through the ear can actually be ingested. With the wisdom of modern medicine, it is now known that this passage is not the result of infection, and is called the Eustachian tube.
Ear infections were frequent at the time, and as mentioned it was thought that a perforated ear drum meant that a liquid in the ear can pass through the perforation and travel to the back of the throat. Hence at the time of Shakespeare’s writings there was an account of a French surgeon being suspected of killing the King of France by giving him an ear infection.
Two fictional references that involve poisoning via the Eustachian tube include:
Huizinga E: Murder through the ear. Pract Oto-rhino-laryng, 1971.
Kan JA: Atropine poisoning in Hawthane’s The Scarlet Letter. NEJM
In the non-fictional domain we have the following reference:
Eclectic medical journal, Volume 22 – 1863, Ohio State Eclectic Medical Association, Worthington College (Ohio). Reformed Medical Dept
pp43-44 On Secret Poisoning – A paper having this terrible title was read by Professor Harley, at the Meeting of the British Association, held last month at Cambridge…yet he was sorry to say he could not but repeat the statement he made last year in a paper on slow poisoning, read before the Royal Medico-Chirurgical Society of London….Nay, more, he even went a step further, and declared that he not only believed that we magnified the difficulty of perpetrating the crime, but that we were also inclined to exaggerate the facility of its detection.
The article goes on to discuss how in small doses a slow death may result in the toxin going undetected.
The previous 5 pages of the journal discussed medical issues pertaining to the Eustachian tube.
The Royal Medical and Chirurgical Society of London is now the Royal Society of Medicine.
Thanks to a google search there is the following text reference:
Criminal Poisoning: An Investigational Guide for Law Enforcement, … – Google Books Result, by John H. Trestrail – 2000 – Medical – 184 pages
XI: Thallium as “an untraceable poison,” Pharmacy History, … Huizinga E: Murder through the ear. Pract Oto-rhino-laryng, 1971;33:361-365. …
books.google.com.au/books?isbn=1588291332…
Other editions
Edition 2 – 2007 – Limited preview
Edition 1 – 1899 – No preview available
Also from Google, there has been a scientific study of the effects of thallium on rats:
Revised Final Report: Toxicity of Thallium (I)
DW-89922097 between EPA and the U.S. Department of Energy. …. The study was conducted according to EPA TSCA GLP guidelines in place at the time. The …
oaspub.epa.gov/eims/eimscomm.getfile?p_download_id=471675
In the comments by a Dr. Koller we have that … extra steps were taken in an attempt to diagnose an unexpected ear lesion that occurred in all groups of rats in this study.
What about a possible motive? A little discussed but very real personal issue for those close to him was always whether and when you would be replaced by Osho. If you are not his personal physician, dentist, secretary, or indeed financial donor, than who are you? You might say well if a personal aid killed Osho, then what is the use of being an aid to a dead person? If you were Osho’s personal aid when he left the body, then this is how it will stay. You will always be his personal ‘aid’. Also, if for example you were sitting on certain boards of certain trusts and foundations, or if you were a signatory to certain bank accounts, then having that unchanged has certain advantages.
Let me be very clear here and state that the above proposition is a line of inquiry and is not an accusation.
The notion of secret poisoning reminds me of all the sanyassins and visitors of the Pune resort who have over the years unknowingly consumed contaminated ‘drinking’ water.
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The “Inner Circle” was mandated to make Osho fully available in a non-interfering and practical way.
So what is on offer then? Osho was certainly a changing phenomenon. In some stages he was more like Amma, and at other times he was embodying the essence of J Krishnamurti. Yes Osho moved across the full spectrum of spirituality in both theory and practice. It is interesting to note that when the West was indulging in the free love movement of the 70’s Krishnamurti maintained his steady dull tack, and was a spiritual outcast as a result. On the other hand Osho just so happened to develop his views and practices into a form that merged ever so neatly with the free love hippy movement. Perhaps it was just a coincidence rather than a cosmic accident or divine providence. Osho became immensely popular as a result. Of course the 70’s finished after ten years, and as the years rolled by the ever so sweet revolution of love and godliness turned sour – no doubt things like AIDS and rampant corruption made hefty contributions. In the end Osho again changed his style. Some would say that he embodied a Zen style in the last years.
Can anything be drawn from this temporal or chronological analysis? Is there any delimiting marks that define these changes in style? Or is it perhaps just our minds that like to impose an understanding on a wise being? Was there a hidden order within all the grand disorder, and is this then to be furthered or nurtured?
Is there anything in the argument that Osho was refining his vision? If yes, then even though there is a practical mandate, that mandate is surely to maintain his greatest and final masterpiece, and offer this prize to the world. Nonetheless we have that Zen embodies devotion, and that Osho, in theory and practice, still demonstrated a deeply inherent thread of devotion – even till the very end.
Anyhow, if there is a dividing line, where is it. Actually and more accurately, when was it. If there was a line that brought in the silent Zen revolution, then surely there were other lines to. Osho was at one stage a free love guru. He also at times was entirely in accordance with Krishnamurti in that any form of relationship that puts another being above you is destined for failure. Yet he was also for a time a mainstream Indian feet kissing guru.
So where are these demarcations? Also, if Zen is right, then these previous periods of evolution (prior to each revolution) must be in some way wrong. Logically, this must go in order such that his first utterances and actions after enlightenment were the most wrong. This seems a little counter intuitive. Surely, even if you support this view of refinement, he was post enlightenment always pretty much ‘right’. Surely his earlier discourses are full of wisdom as opposed to utter trash.
Some adherents would say Osho’s words are still contemporary, and are always timeless. Other ‘sincere’ sannyasins will disagree and say his message will not really be understood (by the masses) for centuries to come. They can even give you an Osho quote to back it up, and explain that this is why he was misunderstood in his time, and why he was a magnet for criminality unsurpassed by any modern day spiritual teacher.
What interests me is what of his post-Enlightenment discourses is this referring to? Is it that his discourses in Pune 2 (87-89) offer his finest insights, are now contemporary, and will ultimately be most relevant in a couple of hundred years or so? The current Zen-style “Inner Circle” argue from the perspective of these last years (apparently). I would say that they have a limited and deeply biased view of his last years. In any case, the argument seems to be that his earlier “Indian Guru” and “Sex Guru” eras were wrong, out-of-date, or in the least a few rough drafts.
If these earlier eras were pre-Enlightenment you might at least have the basis for a case. (Of course much more would be required). Yet Osho was be his own unchanging account enlightened in 1953 at the age of 21. I do not know when it might be said to be that Osho was a ‘typical’ Indian style guru, but it seems that he was so some 15 and more years after his enlightenment. I should have thought this reasonable time to iron out a few crossed wires in the brain from the diamond thunderbolt! Perhaps he was appealing to the peculiarities of the Indian culture at the time, just the same as he later appealed to the peculiarities of a 1970’s sexual revolution.
It might be plausible here to argue that he refined his understanding as he came across different types of people and cultures. This makes some sense. Osho read widely throughout his life and in this way he became exposed to more and more intellectual views. He also was fond of noting that he liked to observe people, and learn from this. Presumably in observing different types of people and different cultural groups, he would learn from this. Presumably he could also share this learning and help the different groups evolve.
Even if we accept the above scenario it cannot be extended to the idea that any particular group or culture is wrong or primitive. Devotion is one of the four paths of yoga – Bhakti Yoga. We have it that Osho catered for devotion in an overt way as a ‘typical’ Indian guru up to the early 70’s. So the path of devotion is as old as spirituality in man. Osho presumable had a very deep grasp of this path, and was some twenty years involved with its unique Indian qualities. All of a sudden we have a hippy revolution originating in the West, and so does Bhagwan Rajneesh’s style, actions, and discourses suddenly become what…out of date, or perhaps transcended? Would you like here to posit that the free love hippy movement was more evolved than the Indian consciousness? If so, why did Osho not start out as a “Sex Guru” rather than a ‘typical’ Indian style guru? It is not as if the entwining of sex and spirituality was not a regular theme throughout the history of the sub-continent.
If we follow this type of cultural analysis through Osho’s life time we can do little more then indulge in philosophical or intellectual speculation. If you would like to take certain years as ‘the golden years’ then you have enumerable problems to explain. If 1987-1990 were the golden years, then what happened from 1953-1986, some 35 years of post-Enlightened life. What is it…two decades in the ‘Stone Age’ as a ‘typical’ Indian guru, and one decade in the ‘Bronze Age’ as a sex guru? If you take this view it inherently means accepting a view of cultural superiority. Western hippies are more spiritually evolved than Indian devotees, and the Western leaning Zen-style collective is more evolved than both.
As an intellectual endeavour arguing for the refinement hypothesis it may be more fruitful, if accepting there are clearly defined different ‘eras’, that Osho refined his teachings within each ‘era’, and for each cultural or spiritual group. If you were a devotional type and were following Bhakti Yoga, presumably it would be best to listen to some discourse from some time in the early 70’s. What about the end of the sex revolution? Was that defined by the end of Pune 1, or perhaps the collapse of The Ranch? In any case, if you have a suppressed sexuality, I suppose you should listen to a few discourses from the end of that era.
I don’t subscribe to either of the two above theories. If you are a devotional type, then perhaps an earlier discourse will be more spiritually valuable. If you have a repressed sexuality then perhaps a discourse from Pune 1 would be most spiritually fruitful. If you are like to sit in the lotus position then possibly listening to some Pune 2 discourses would be most helpful. Maybe, but who is to say. Just listen to the discourses. The array of subjects is staggering, at all times. Do you think there is nothing for the Bhakti Yoga enthusiast is his supposedly Zen-style Pune 2 discourses? Do you think there is nothing for the Zen-style enthusiast in his discourses from the early days? This notion of delimiting Osho to certain fixed eras, and the notion of refinement, is on the surface laughable, and beyond that deeply hypocritical and prejudiced.
Osho was deeply controversial and highly contradictory. Osho for example praised Chirstianity and then he condemned it. He did this on all variety of subjects. One day he would say one thing, then next the opposite. One year he would praise one ideology, the next year he would condemn it. One year he was a feet kissing Indian guru, the next year he was a sex guru. Of course some years down the track he more or less tried to take away the ‘sex’ label entirely. Certainly I personally like this or that about Osho, but can anything be said to be actually this or that (or right or wrong or whatever)?
Yes he refined certain meditations and meditative therapies, and then offered the final version, but the same is hard to draw about other aspects of Osho, including (and especially) his discourses. I am not aware that Osho ever said that post-Enlightenment he was getting better and better at giving speeches, that we was becoming wiser and wiser. Although I do recall at some stage he said he went beyond Enlightenment. Perhaps if we found out when exactly that happened, we can trash all the old enlightened stuff, and only listen to post-Enlightened wisdom.
What about another key issue, namely the celebrations of certain days. What about his birthday? What about Christ-mass? What about New Year’s eve, or even the Chinese new year?
At one stage he was a typical feet kissing guru. Yet later on he stopped or at least reduced such typically devotional physical contact from seekers. Presumably there were also gradual changes in the way certain days were celebrated. I would assume that the Indian calendar was full of special occasions for Bhagwan Rajneesh when he was a (relatively) typical Indian style guru. The free love 70’s (Western style hippie genre) I would guess saw a reduction in popularity and frequency of such occasions. Still it would have been deeply present, as though the hippies loved each other a lot, they also loved their Master a lot too.
The funny thing about The Ranch is that for the most part Osho was in isolation and seclusion. After The Ranch disaster his last years are argued to be more in Zen style. As previously stated there are nonetheless striking and regular occurrences of Osho initiated devotion, right to the very last. However I would say that a fair analysis will find that the style and timing of celebration days had changed compared with the past eras of pre-Pune and Pune I. I assume that there were no great lines of devotees waiting to kiss his feet during Pune II.
So what happens when Osho leaves the body? Obviously it should not be that the original form of dynamic be adopted by one or another faction. Osho introduced and then refined different meditations and therapies. He made this clear. The final versions of his different mediations and therapies are Osho end products. What to say then of for example celebration days, his pictures, or indeed associated devotional practices such as foot and marble kissing?
The practical mandate of the “Inner Circle” is to preserve and make available. Some people like to get together and have a party on New Years Eve. It would seem therefore a good practical management decision to have a big bash at the resort on the night. Lots of people come and get a taste of Osho. What then of the Indian Master’s day. What indeed about Osho’s other notable days? If no one wants to come then sure, no point. Yet it is very clear that this is not the case. On the surface this seems strange. Lots of people coming to the resort to get a taste of Osho, or to go deeper with Osho. What’s the problem?
The problem is that this may encourage the kind of devotion that either Osho was not really into, or that he gradually moved away from over the course of his enlightened life. Either Osho despised such practices yet accepted feet kissing losers for the sake of numbers and hope for salvation of their lost souls, or Osho gradually refined his approach and devotion was not part of the pure metal essence. Also, the “Inner Circle” has a practical mandate, and this is to offer the essential teachings and practices of Osho. Anything other then this core offering is in the realm of the subjective or superfluous. Either it is philosophical or non-essential. You see either way we have it that the marble kissing, picture gazing devotees are out of luck. This was either pre-70’s and therefore out of date, or it was clearly being gradually diminished over the few decades of his offerings. Sure there were still pictures on the walls of the ashram at the time of Osho leaving the body, but were they not there either as a legacy of a past era or as the reflection of a wayward seeker’s neediness. Is not the same for the personal celebration days of Osho’s?
Osho did not put the pictures up personally I assume, but did he explicitly or implicitly support this? Was he as usual detached and uninvolved? Was it that he opposed such measures yet was at times ignored? Perhaps it was like when he requested the act of physical touching his feet to be stopped. Now obviously we do not have to worry about that issue specifically, but does it point a way forward?
If Osho had a stroke and became deaf and dumb, what would happen if some old devotees wanted to touch his feet? This is an example of a devotional practice that Osho clearly allowed, and then clearly stopped. Did he do the same with other devotional practices? If feet kissing became popular in the West would Osho have again commenced the practice?
I would say that in general nothing clear will ever be ascertained with this general line of questioning. Sure there appears to be a trend if you like to plot points on a graph, but short of Osho making anything clear this is not helpful. The question of whether Osho was in a process of refinement or whether he was changing according to social and cultural trends will never be answered on his behalf.
Devotion is a faux pas in recent times, but what if it becomes popular again. What if it becomes the main-stream again? Is it that the resort should stubbornly maintain a New Years Eve bash with no takers, and have throngs of devotees outside the closed gates for Master’s day – with a pre-70’s devotional discourse burnt at the podium to mark the occasion?
Osho made it clear that he was refining his meditations. He did not make clear that the same is the case with respect to his ideological tenants. Also, the thread of devotion weaved its way through Osho from beginning to end. It was deeply present even in the so-called Zen era of Pune II- in the ashram, in Osho’s actions, in his discourses, and perhaps most importantly, in his people. To say that devotion was in general decline of the years may be an oversight. I would say that more accurately the devotional dimension became less and less obvious. To draw from this that subtle elements of devotion are less important than overt ones is a tough call.
Amma has her great devotees and J Krishnamurti told them to all get lost. The same cannot be said of Osho. He moved all over the religious spectrum. I would also say that you cannot plot the graph of overt devotion to be gradually declining (with respect to time) anyhow. Requesting that his ashes be placed under his bed and for people to come and meditate there is to me his last great offering, and it is of a devotional type. So how does that work? The graph goes down gradually for a few decades and then bounces up at the last? What is the trajectory of such a path?
Westerner’s and Western leaning locals like a good New Years party. Great, so have a party. What about if a small percentage of the 1.3 billion Chinese people start taking to the crazy guy? If they become the majority visitor at the resort presumably the Chinese new year will be the biggest event on the calendar.
Why is the resort closed at night time? There are a lot of night owl insomniac Osho sannyassins I am sure. If they become sufficient in number then the gates may not close at night. The decisions made in this regard is of course a practical one. The same can only ever be with any other decision involving certain dates or timing. Some people take exception to Osho’s birthday in the same way that others take exception to Christ-mass or Easter. They are welcome to not attend church but they do not have the right to stop others attending if it is their inclination.
If Osho sannyassins would like to come to the Osho space in Koregaon Park on one of Osho’s notable days then what practical reason is there to not cater for there needs? Even up until 2000 or so, throngs of people would weave there way through Osho’s Samadhi and bedroom on auspicious days. Sure people can come and meditate at the regular times. However the facility enhancement and corresponding price hikes have meant that the space is becoming less and less accessible (including for Westerners). Also, if you were to come on a special day (that is special to you), your needs are not catered for. There is in fact a general and pervasive culture of shunning certain special interest groups.
It is true that the price of entrance and pricing in general reflect the cost structure of the current ‘business’. I also see no reason why the needs of financial well off people not be catered for. However there is no reason why this should exclude people from less fortunate financial backgrounds.
The resort is making Osho more and more unavailable to seekers with less financial resources. I see this as an infringement on the intrinsic objective of making Osho available to all seekers. If I, as a devotional type person, would like to visit Osho’s meditation bedroom, then I do not see why I should drain my limited financial resources to support an outrageously expensive pyramid or a new fitness club. It seems clear that Osho wanted an enclosed meditation auditorium, with water entirely surrounding it. Still, the enclosed meditation space could have been built for a fraction of the actual price (if differently designed). This was a practical decision that is part of a general strategy that is inevitably reflected in a general pricing that alienates people other then the financially well off.
You see here we have the same merry go round circus of arguments again. In the early days Osho was free, or after a time, at least you could visit his ashram for a nominal charge. Current management will tell you straight off that Osho was against the begging mentality of Indian spirituality and that he was a rich person’s guru. They can even give you a few quotes to back it up.
So Pune I was a bargain. Then have a look at how much it cost if you wanted to involve yourself in emotionally and financially draining Ranch. Presumably therefore the reasoning is that this is a process of refinement? The movement then shifted from a ranch that demanded outrageous financial contributions (that were sunk into criminality), to a Pune II that was pretty cheap by any standard. Actually this was the case for the entire decade of the 90’s (after Osho left the body). It was the most recent heavy financial investment in resort like facilities that triggered the price rises.
You cannot draw anything from Osho’s discourses, or from plotting a graph of price versus time, and gain anything from it. (This is the same as the previously pointed out futile exercise of trying to plot a graph of devotion versus time, or to understand the nature of Osho’s understanding and expression of devotional qualities). Osho never left any clear defining standard to follow in this regard. In other words, without any clear instructions, the management must fall back on its basic operating precept. That is, it simple needs to take steps to make the ‘resort’ as available to as many people as possible. Again I repeat that to build an enclosed sound-proof space, or to cater for the wealthy does not mean that people from other financial backgrounds need be excluded or compromised.
Perhaps all the devotional type Osho sannyassins and not actually legitimate. Who determines such immaterial matters? The central point is that all of that which comprises ‘Osho’ is to be preserved (as much as is practically possible), protected, and made available. No practical decision can be made to destroy anything of Osho’s – of course over time there will be physical decay, and this needs to be addressed. No practical reason can be given to deny some aspect of Osho that a seeker would like to imbibe.
One of the central pillars in Osho’s vast archive of treasures is that of devotion. The central position of the current “Inner Circle” is that it is offering the core of Osho, and has removed the unnecessary devotional baggage of needy seekers. Osho is simply his discourses and meditations. He is not about marble kissing and picture gazing. Essentially this logic is right if you personally want to set up your own centre accordingly. However as the “Inner Circle” there is a responsibility to offer all the dimensions of Osho, and hence the discourses that either touch on or focus on such matters (in a positive way) should be given equal preference with any other topic.
Another important point here is that the Koregaon Park ashram was where Osho was living. So in a sense he left behind more than audio recordings and meditation instructions. In some sense he left a building in Lao Tzu that contained a room with a bed containing his ashes, and a number of other structures and land. He had pictures and clothes and all sorts of other material things.
So again, uniquely in Pune, the “Inner Circle” had an additional responsibility. They had to look after some basic physical things. It is not a question of what to do with a pagoda or a Samadhi or whatever, based on your view of Osho’s tendencies with respect to devotion. This is nothing to do with the matter. The fact of the matter is that there are (were) physical things in existence.
It may be that some sannyassins a drawn to these physical things. It may be for reasons you either dislike or do not understand. That is irrelevant. There is an entrance gate and it was mandated with an open invitation to any and all seekers on the path, and there are physical things that have always been available to any interested seeker. In this way, there are no plausible grounds for changing such affairs. Of course you may let a building decay until it becomes a health and safety risk, and then get it destroyed because it is condemned. I think even this passive non-interference seeks to subjugate a clear implicit responsibility to protect and preserve.
Osho has stated that the path is from student, to disciple, to devotee. The devotee is the most intune with the Master…has almost merged, or is almost One with the Master. Perhaps critiques of devotion can come up with a different quote of Osho. Does that version go in reverse…from devotee, to disciple, to student? Of course the term ‘devotee’ will mean different things to different people, but what it is referring to remains.
What does it mean to be closest to the Master? In J Krishnamurti’s case he would say this is a misunderstanding. He would say a highly conscious seeker becomes close to truth, is actually the farthest from him, and call this person nearly “O”. In Amma’s case she would say the person is closest to her and is nearly “1”. In Osho’s case it could be either “O” or “1”, or indeed somewhere else along the spiritual spectrum – as he was this kind of Master, and welcomed all seekers walking all paths. Of course many so-called Osho sannyasins are not seekers, and are stuck “1/2” way, ignorant of their own way, whilst imposing their misconceptions and objections on others and their natural way (with Osho).
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Some adherents would say Osho’s words are still contemporary, and are always timeless. Other ‘sincere’ sannyasins will disagree and say his message will not really be understood (by the masses) for centuries to come. They can even give you an Osho quote to back it up, and explain that this is why he was misunderstood in his time, and why he was a magnet for criminality unsurpassed by any modern day spiritual teacher.
What interests me is what of his post-Enlightenment discourses is this referring to? Is it that his discourses in Pune 2 (87-89) offer his finest insights, are now contemporary, and will ultimately be most relevant in a couple of hundred years or so? The current Zen-style “Inner Circle” argue from the perspective of these last years (apparently). I would say that they have a limited and deeply biased view of his last years. In any case, the argument seems to be that his earlier “Indian Guru” and “Sex Guru” eras were wrong, out-of-date, or in the least a few rough drafts.
If these earlier eras were pre-Enlightenment you might at least have the basis for a case. (Of course much more would be required). Yet Osho was by his own unchanging account enlightened in 1953 at the age of 21. I do not know when it might be said to be that Osho was a ‘typical’ Indian style guru, but it seems that he was so for some 15 and more years after his enlightenment. I should have thought this reasonable time to iron out a few crossed wires in the brain from the diamond thunderbolt! Perhaps he was appealing to the peculiarities of the Indian culture at the time, just the same as he later appealed to the peculiarities of a 1970’s sexual revolution.
It might be plausible here to argue that he refined his understanding as he came across different types of people and cultures. This makes some sense. Osho read widely throughout his life and in this way he became exposed to more and more intellectual views. He also was fond of noting that he liked to observe people, and learn from this. Presumably in observing different types of people and different cultural groups, he would learn from this. Presumably he could also share this learning and help the different groups evolve. Still, in the sense that he claims to be enlightened, I would assume that all his utterances carried the fragrance of truth, and that this was what was ultimately important.
Even if we accept the above scenario of learning, it cannot be extended to the idea that any particular group or culture is wrong or primitive. Devotion is one of the four paths of yoga – Bhakti Yoga. We have it that Osho catered for devotion in an overt way as a ‘typical’ Indian guru up to the early 70’s. So the path of devotion is as old as spirituality in man. Osho presumably had a very deep grasp of this path, and was some twenty years involved with its unique Indian qualities. All of a sudden we have a hippy revolution originating in the West, and so does Bhagwan Rajneesh’s Indian guru style, actions, and discourses suddenly become what…out of date, or perhaps transcended? Would you like here to posit that the free love hippy movement was more evolved than the Indian consciousness? If so, why did Osho not start out as a “Sex Guru” rather than a ‘typical’ Indian style guru? It is not as if the entwining web of sex and spirituality was not a regular theme throughout the history of the sub-continent.
If we follow this type of cultural analysis through Osho’s life time we can do little more then indulge in philosophical or intellectual speculation. If you would like to take certain years as ‘the golden years’ then you have enumerable problems to explain. If 1987-1990 were the golden years, then what happened from 1953-1986, some 36 years of post-Enlightened life. What is it…two decades in the ‘Stone Age’ as a ‘typical’ Indian guru, and one decade in the ‘Bronze Age’ as a sex guru? If you take this view it inherently means accepting a view of cultural superiority. Western hippies are more spiritually evolved than Indian devotees, and the Western leaning Zen-style collective is more evolved than both.
As an intellectual endeavour arguing for the refinement hypothesis it may be more fruitful, if accepting there are clearly defined different ‘eras’, that Osho refined his teachings within each ‘era’, and for each cultural or spiritual group. If you were a devotional type and were following Bhakti Yoga, presumably it would be best to listen to some discourse from some time in the early 70’s. What about the end of the sex revolution? Was that defined by the end of Pune 1, or perhaps the collapse of The Ranch? In any case, if you have a suppressed sexuality, I suppose you should listen to a few discourses from the end of that era.
I don’t subscribe to either of the two above theories. If you are a devotional type, then perhaps an earlier discourse will be more spiritually valuable. If you have a repressed sexuality then perhaps a discourse from Pune 1 would be most spiritually fruitful. If you are like to sit in the lotus position then possibly listening to some Pune 2 discourses would be most helpful. Maybe, but who is to say. Just listen to the discourses. The array of subjects is staggering, at all times. Do you think there is nothing for the Bhakti Yoga enthusiast is his supposedly Zen-style Pune 2 discourses? Do you think there is nothing for the Zen-style enthusiast in his discourses from the early days? This notion of delimiting Osho to certain fixed eras, and the notion of refinement, is on the surface laughable, and beyond that deeply hypocritical and prejudiced.
Osho has stated that the path is from student, to disciple, to devotee. The devotee is the most in-tune with the Master…has almost merged, or is almost One with the Master. Perhaps critics of devotion can come up with a different quote from Osho. Does that version go in reverse…from devotee, to disciple, to student? Of course the term ‘devotee’ will mean different things to different people, but what it is referring to remains.
What does it mean to be closest to the Master? In J Krishnamurti’s case he would say this is a misunderstanding. He would say a highly conscious seeker who becomes close to truth is actually the farthest from him, and would call this person nearly “O”. In Amma’s case she would say the person is closest to her and is nearly “1”. In Osho’s case it could be either “O” or “1”, or indeed somewhere else along the spiritual spectrum – as he was this kind of Master, and welcomed all seekers walking all paths. Of course many so-called Osho sannyasins are not seekers, and are stuck “1/2” way, ignorant of their own way, whilst imposing their misconceptions and objections on others and their natural way.
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Wow, talk about bad luck with that flying bale of hay!!!
Patience OshoBob. Although I must admit I am beginning to think there might be something in that conspiracy theory of yours. Be a sheep or a fence sitter or hide in the bushes through ever so sweet lies, but don’t jump in a lions den with a gang of thieves!
Do you see the pervasive culture of endless power grabbing back at the farm? A few top dogs kicked out the majority of the original “Inner Circle”. What next then? Make a plush resort inline with a materialistic, elitist Zen-like idealism. Get a stack of trademarks under your belt. How to do this? Tell the trademarks office that you control all the global centres even though you don’t and never have, and don’t tell them that Osho is a famous guru who stole his name from the orient. What next? Send a letter to all the centres globally telling them that they are under your control because you now have some fancy trademarks. They officially come under your control so that the swifty you pulled with the trademarks office looks all above board – don’t worry about the dates! Keep the global centres in line through insights gained from reading the Nazi SS espionage handbook. In general I have nothing against Germans these days, but isn’t Vatayana and Pramod from that part of the globe. What about publishing? Edit Osho’s words so that Osho sounds just the way you like him and nothing like who he is. Market this populist fiction. This is a global empire in the making. Main problem is on the way they forgot to fix the drinking water at the resort so that for many years people who came during the monsoon drank seriously contaminated water. Of course that is just one perspective. There are other problems. Essentially they have in their blind greed steam-rolled Osho, his place of last residence, and all his people. Hard workers, at least this much I congratulate them on. Sure they have their following, but then hey, so did Hitler.
Dilruba: You say that you can feel my pain. I write because I can see the situation, and part of the reason I can do that is because it is not my pain. There are so many seekers that have been side-lined or pushed out or demonized, and it is the pain of this collective of Osho sannyasins that you refer to. I am not part of this collective.
Lokesh: Your comment demonstrates that you did not follow what I wrote, let alone understand the motivation for it. In a way though, what you say at the last is in line with what I concluded. I suppose I would call that a fLuke!
The justification for the direction of the Osho community taken by the current dictatorial regime is based on certain personal theories about Osho. The personal choice that the ruling elite seek to force on all others is based on ill-conceived views about Zen, devotion, intellectual refinement, material value, and many other things. I look at firstly how their personal views show a complete lack of clarity with respect to these issues. Secondly, I look at how this is completely out of touch with Osho’s relationship to these issues.
You essentially say Osho has transcended all religions. In my analysis I conclude that Osho is a synthesis of all religions. To say that Osho is a break from the past and offers something completely new, rather than to say that Osho takes the essence of the past and offers this, is redundant! The reason is because all religions start with the essential thread of religiousness. They inevitably get transformed into empty acts of worship and great intellectual treatise full of ego. Still the essence of each religion offers an authentic path. It may be a path that suits a certain type of person. If it is one of the main religions, then it is a network of paths suited to many types of people. If authentic religiousness is clouded by personal bias, than it is a dead religion. Welcome to the religion of Osho.
Osho has offered many and varied ways for many and varied seekers. The current regime has not only cut off most of these ways, but has made a quagmire of the elitist and materialistic, non-devotional Zen-style that suits them.
As far as a few of your pet topics goes, I would say that you do not understand the distinction between providing a defence, and being defensive. Ever heard of a good game of football without a goalie? Sure if the ego is hurt an automatic response is to react. In psychological terminology it is called being defensive. It shows that a person has an ego. I don’t consider that a particularly helpful nor insightful deduction.
Is there anything else in me that can really be hurt, rather then just this false entity called the ego? If I am attacked by a knife wielding assailant do you think that I should just stand absolutely still, close my eyes, and go in, knowing that if I were to do anything in response would show my ego at play? If someone lies to me or betrays my confidence, should I just say that that is cool because I am an Osho sannyasin? Even though I feel that a deep injustice has been done, actually it is OK that they hurt my feelings because it is just my ego that is hurt.
Each person has an identity and a personal space that should be respected. Any self-respecting person defends this space, any self-deprecating person allows and welcomes its infringement, and any domineering person indulges in its violation. To defend this is not about emotional reaction and ego. It is about integrity, understanding, and responsiveness. It is the difference between being assertive and aggressive.
You also like to repeat one of Osho’s sayings that comparison is the root of all jealousy. Comparison is not the root of all jealousy. Desire is the root of all jealousy. When you desire something that you cannot have, or when you desire this rather than that, there is an automated mental and emotional response. The mental response is to make a comparison. The emotional response is jealousy.
To say that comparison is the root of all jealousy leads people to wrongly think that the way out of the torment of jealousy is somehow about dropping an intellectual process. “If I could just stop comparing this with that I would be free of jealousy”. So-called Osho therapists are good at going down this path with their victims. Everyone walks around thinking “I need to just stop comparing”, and ignore the deeper process of desiring this or that, and the reason why this process of desiring takes place in the first place.
Frank:
one door closes
another opens
one door opens
another door closes
now I get it
a revolving door
Prem Bubbie: You want to know which Prem Abhay I am…I am not the one that used to go to the German Bakery just at the start of White-Robe.
Satya Deva: Are you remaining silent so you can later on pretend to be me, and thus play a part in the doppel gang illusion? Or is it that you have a headache from trying to work out what 1% of Shantam’s writings has any merit. My suggestion is to aim for one paragraph rather than a book. Being generous I suggest you include two rather than one loopy metaphor.
Shantam Prem: Just wondering when we all pop over to your place for a bash whether you will also put on a party at GB? Should be a real blast! I’ll have a banana lassie and spinach burger with fries (NO salad!). Do we get a free backpack for our take-away?
Anand: You seem to be trying to convince yourself that your favourite Osho heroes are doing pretty good really. I think it is hilarious that you say that hey, they gotta be better than Sheela and The Ranch. Not much of a base line for comparison I would have thought. You should stick to what you are good at…remembering and sharing facts. Leave the analysis stuff to someone else. So you like visiting terrorist blast sites, you like hanging out at Indian airports looking for Osho big wigs, and you like collecting original Osho transcripts. What, did you bug the dental room? Strange fellow indeed!
OshoBob: What, do they have wi-fi in your cell in Xiamen prison? Fair enough to start up an eco-village, but really, what were you thinking…trying to promote meditation is one thing, but wild dancing…that was too much!
Lokesh, your example of jealousy points to the ability of this term to be applied to the more literal meaning of envy. I do not think that it usually works the other way. I can see how at a purely intellectual level envy is more associated with comparison than is jealousy. I have a sense that Osho is confusing the meaning of the two terms, and refers to jealousy when he actually meant envy.
OshoBob, you summarise the situation well. You say that these ‘eras’ that I have identified and examined are really just broad generalisations, and at a closer look the boundaries are very much blurred, even to the point of perhaps actually not being there at all. Looking at all this Osho drama, it took me quite a while to work out what was going on. The reason is because, like you (and Lokesh), I do not see any boundaries at all. Also, it is hard to get a handle on where the reclusive regime is coming from as they know all to well the value of secrecy. It is the regime that is trying to slice up Osho in time and in character. It is the regime that has created the Osho Zen framework and pitted it against what it negatively denotes as devotion. I simply follow their lead and demonstrate that actually such an approach does not work.
It is nice and well to say hey the Osho pie comes whole or not at all. Lokesh made such a comment in response to what I wrote. This however is unhelpful if just one piece of the piece sits in the hands of a few, and the rest is in the trash – especially when the only piece of the pie left has beef jerky stuck in it, and a cherry on top.
See the joke? I critique something made up by the new Osho priests, and then people offer a critique of me by saying hey that stuff is really just made up.
Only trouble is, fiction so often becomes reality – by the ignorant mind. The new priesthood made up the divisions, and twenty years down the track there really are divisions. Devotional and other types really have been deeply alienated or removed from the scene. And yes I agree that the nature of Zen in its land of origin is helpful to debunk myths surrounding its exploitation under the banner of Osho.
Just see the list of banned buddhas. Have they done anything unethical? Have they done anything criminal? Have they tried to raise awareness of and bring and end to criminality?
Just see the number of seekers that go to an Osho Master’s day celebration at a rented out hall down the road from the Master’s home as a blatant pointer to something deeply wrong.
The lead article above demonstrates how the remaining global network of centres that are more ideologically aligned with the powers that be are now deeply alienated and confused.
This is where it gets interesting. The gang had a good argument. It was very convincing indeed, especially when it fitted with a certain type of person. I think of our psycho Professor Big Tony…educated, have a bit of money behind them, like nice things, and primarily are interested in individual meditation, and a little indulgent play with the opposite sex. This group of people was willing to believe in the lies of the establishment because it satisfied their needs. Only thing is, when the gang finished a clean sweep of the resort, they were still hungry. They tried to take control of the global centres that supported their Zen ideology.
Now the global centres that are (were) somewhat aligned with their elitist and materialistic Zen style are in a puzzle. There belief that OshoWorld, affiliates, and others, are bad and nasty is called into question. Surely that nutter Abhay who complained about the water is a nutter. Hmmm? Surely people would not have drank contaminated water for years at the resort during the monsoon, and finance did not even budge an inch…not even to buy a few filters, let alone fix the problem to the point that the water system was at least of reasonable standard. And all you old Osho engineers don’t start dancing up and down and whingeing. I am not talking about Pune 1. I am talking about the twenty-first century. Stuck in the past?
Tell you what. I have an idea. I collected some water from the past years during the monsoons. I have a jug full for each person that sits down at the Osho global big wigs conference at the resort this time. Happy drinking and hope you enjoy your first taste of reality back from your insanity!!!
Same goes for China!
Lokesh: Point is if any of the high priests at the Global Connections Council Elect annual conference get seriously ill from sculling their entire jug of the resorts contaminated drinking water, I want to let them know that you will go and visit them at the local hospital. That way they will have courage and drink the toxic water knowing that if they get rushed off to hospital, they will still have at least one Osho sannyasin friend.
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Life is a joke isn’t it? All these serious people in the world and Osho always used to say this was an inherent sickness in all the dead religions…didn’t he? Wait, I am sure I can get you a thousand quotes to back up my argument…oops, now I am being serious.
It may be helpful to make light of things sometimes. It may be that things are anyhow light. Still, to always take the approach that everything is a comic strip makes me a little suspicious. Non-seriousness in the Osho world is so often reflected by great crowds of people laughing loudly, and most importantly at nothing at all. If you are sitting nearby, or walk passed, what happens? Do you feel any temptation to be also drawn into a great belly laugh – you know how infectious a really good laugh is. Or, is it that you feel a little flat afterwards and wonder why it seemed like all the laughing was an utterly fake act. Strangely I have that same feeling when I read the repeated jokes here on SannyasNews lately.
It seems to me that the jokes are a front to avoid something. You are comfortable going to the resort or doing the things you do, and all these ‘serious’ issues are a challenging to your vested interests. To get into an intellectual debate is a bit of a challenge, especially when you have not a case other than power hungry lies to try and support. Of course you can simply ignore or dismiss the quite murmurings of discontent, yet still this leaves the ego a little unsteady, and that is little joy for great spiritual Osho beings. So a good light hearted banter and a quote about passing clouds should do the trick.
Perhaps there is a fear that the Osho mafia may get wind of your discontent, and to make a joke distances yourself and shows you are not involved at all. This is a little funny when you are motivated enough to repeat a boring joke endlessly.
If you are an editor of a website, perhaps reject any offerings to have the real story told as a
Since there appears to be a lack of reader contribution I thought I might get an entire front-end loader scoop’s worth of quality archives from the Osho Wiki Dumpster bin. It is possible to find some of this material on Sannyasnews. However, most of the larger reports used to be on either Sannyasnews.com or on OshoWorld.com, but have never returned from mysterious disappearances.
A little over a year ago Harri Om made a significant number of contributions to Oshoworld.com. Prem Abhay then also made a contribution. Strangely, soon after this, the OshoWorld site shut down to some extent. (I cannot recall if the whole site shut down for a time, or perhaps just the news section). The news articles were no longer accessible. After a while, the news section was up and running, and the entire video and audio archive of Osho was also available. Previously this was disallowed by OIF on infringement of copy-write grounds.
When you go through the news archives on the site, still there is a large gap in the archives that reflects the time just prior to the site shutting down. The archives mysteriously disappeared from OshoWorld’s site, and have not since returned. If you go to the site you will now find a large gap in the archives. Sannyasnews now also has a large gap in their archives after their site was hacked.
On SannyasNews firebrand Swami Detective (that’s me of course) came back from extended leave. His first article had little directly to do with Osho. His second article is already in this current chat stream. I repeat it here as the first to come out of the front-end loader’s scoop. Prem Abhay’s contribution on OshoWorld is the second to come out of the front-end loader’s scoop. A lot of Harri Om’s articles are further down, mixed up with his (or her) subsequent chat on Sannyasnews.
Harri Om had a brief run on OshoWorld as a prolific contributor. After the drama on the site, Harri Om’s articles never returned from the void. He (or she) then popped up on Sannyasnews. Some of Harri Om’s chat on Sannyasnews was found in the dumpster. I do not know why that is, but that is not for me to decide.
Harri Om started out on OshoWorld with a blazing fire-brand sermon popping up on the News section almost every other day. Prem Abhay added a little sweetener, and then shortly afterwards the News section went down.
So, the first two articles shown here were current on both websites at the time of mysterious disappearance, and were soon followed by a re-emergence of both OshoWorld and Sannyasnews. Yet they are similarly part of a void in the archives on both sites. What, will Sannyasnews start offering free text, audio, and video archives of Osho’s complete and un-doctored works?
It is most interesting that both articles have a very similar subject matter. They both strongly feature Doc Amrito in a starkly sinister fashion. The first article, dumped onto Sannyasnews just before it was ‘hacked’, looked at the controversial issue of Osho’s death. The second article looked at the Doc’s involvement in drinking water contamination at the resort (on OshoWorld). The third article, which made a sudden appearance on Sannyasnews, (I think) featured on OshoWorld soon before the shut-down. The article is entitled Who Really Poisoned Osho. You can be rest assured that this article could be interpreted as featuring Doc Amrito in a most sinister light.
This is all unusually dark, however it is also unusually coincidental. I don’t like coincidences.
These are original transcripts extracted from the secretly located Osho Wiki Dumpster’s bin that lies hidden at an undisclosed location underneath a certain person’s bed in a certain person’s marble bedroom.
Would someone please explain what the deal is? My investigations are incomplete otherwise.
Swami Detective
Here are the archives, first, second, third, etc. If there is no truth in these, then why do they seem to be part of a pattern of forced disappearance? Perhaps just coincidence, though again, I do not like coincidences. There is something that disturbs someone (or some group of people) in these three articles (in my opinion). Likely this is the same with a lot of the other chat.
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This is the second dump of publicly available information into The private black hole (otherwise known as The Source by all you wise people here). This information was impersonally passed onto me by Swami Julia_ As_ange! Just to let you known that Swami Jul_an A_sange’s name has been professionally air brushed to fool only the stupidest of left wing nutters that he actually cares about exposing people to retribution by authoritarian and puritanical regimes.
Please note that ‘nutters’ refers to millions of people, including everyone here at SunYak’sBum News (otherwise known as Son Y’re ‘n Ass News).
For all you information hacks looking for the next slice of wisdom and ecstasy, Wikileaks has changed its name to WikiPiddle. Also, in the interest of liberation of the Inner-Circle from two and a half men, Sannyasnews has a sister city cited here for the first and ever lasting time as sassy MaYassNews. Swami Jul_an Ass_nge also made two quick passing cynicisms as we briefly passed each others space junk in our own back yard. The first thing he (or she) noted was that everyone should stop leaking information about his sordid sex life because that is private information. The second thing he (or she) noted was that the Bank of America board and the Osho Inner-Circle should resign before the next meeting of both boreds. Stay tuned, and do what every you do, but as an undercurrent do just one other think, don’t be board. (For all those lefties who missed that one, it is a slight of hand reference to the good ol’saying, “as thick as two planks of plankton”).
Here is the second rotten smelly dumpster treasure. Lap it up you lap-dancing loopy loner auto-canoodlers, and please stop Osho WikiPiddling.
Osho’s death controversy demands answers even today
0 Comments | DNA : Daily News & Analysis; Mumbai, Jan 19, 2010 | by Vaidya, Abhay
Twenty years after he died, the controversy surrounding Osho’s death on January 19, 1990 has still not been resolved with many followers seeking answers to key elements in the official story.
Within and outside discussion groups on the Internet, Osho’s followers are questioning the official version about Osho’s death and the purported instructions that he left behind for the conduct of the multi-million dollar commune after him.
The official version that he died of thallium poisoning administered during his prison term in the United States is being questioned on discussion groups such as sanyas.org. Many of his followers say that the mystic never showed any deterioration in his health for at least two years after his return from the US. Osho’s followers are also questioning the control exerted on the commune’s affairs and properties since his death by the British-born physician and powerful commune administrator Amrito (Dr John Andrew) and the even more powerful Canadian Michael O’Byrne, known as Jayesh.
It is well known in commune circles that Amrito and Jayesh were the only two persons present at Osho’s bedside when he died in Pune on January 19, 1990. Also, that it was Amrito who first propounded the thallium poisoning theory. Amrito and the commune’s press in-charge Amrit Sadhana backed out of an interview promised to DNA on Wednesday last.
Amrito insisted that he did not wish to discuss the past and that the only thing that mattered were Osho’s words.
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The purpose here is to examine what side of the fence Osho’s personal physician sits on, and to provide a summary of my recent involvement with the resort.
The contamination of drinking water was (I assume) first identified in the monsoon of 2004. All the drinking water stations were closed for several weeks. When a sannyassin engineer (Swami Mahasukh) began opening the water stations, there was still periodic contamination of this drinking water. I approached a number of people about my concerns. I sent a copy of some test results to Amrito. There was an apparent technical problem with Amrito contacting me at the ‘Hygiene’ email account. However he could send them to my coordinator. I received at least one email from Amrito. I do not recall the contents of the email.
After January of 2006, I approached Amrito and expressed my concerns about the water treatment system. I said that the consulting microbiologist had explained to me that the 2005 monsoon contamination was worse than the preceding year. I also said that I had changed to drinking resort water, and had been diagnosed with amoebic dysentery. He told me that it was absolutely essential that the water be completely clean, and that he would look into the matter.
In mid-January 2006 I left Amrito a copy of my report into health and safety concerns at the resort. A large part of this report was directed towards addressing water issues. In February of 2006 I phoned Amrito from Bangkok to confirm that he had received my report, and to ask for his feedback. He said that he had received my report, and that it was important to address the problem with the water prior to the (2006) monsoon. He also said that the other issues in the report needed addressing.
In late 2006 I made efforts to contact Amrito and resort management, asking for further feedback about to what extent the issues in the report had been addressed. I never received any reply and this gradually led me to assume that the likely scenario is that a lot of important issues (including water) may have been ignored.
I decided to try and make sannyassins in general aware of the hidden problems at the resort. I opened an information website (nomindspiration.com). Soon after opening the site I received an email (early 2007) from Amrito saying that some people feel that the resort is the last place I should be right now.
It is a possible that Amrito’s positive response to my Bangkok phonecall was merely an effort to placate me. However from the above information it is reasonably to conclude that Amrito is well aware of the problem with contamination of drinking water at the resort. I understand that he is meticulous with personal hygiene, and also secured funding to upgrade the water treatment system at the inception of Pune II. He is a medical doctor, and has a deep interest in the effects of food and water-borne illnesses in India.
There are many advantages of not calling a spade a spade and getting kicked out like I did. The manner in which I have approached the resort has been one that isn’t necessarily conducive to dialogue. However I would like to make mention that this is in direct response to the way I was ruthlessly dealt with by resort management. In order to remain at the resort, no doubt a considerable level of diplomatic skills is required. The trade-off is between gaining from being in the know (so to speak), and the loss of being excessively diplomatic and ‘nice’.
Amrito appears to take a very firm stance with respective to drinking water contamination. He is also well aware that there have been entrenched problems with drinking water contamination. He appeared to support investigating and correcting the problem. Perhaps he does not have the (financial) decision making authority?
In December 2007 I travelled to Pune, went to the main gate of the Osho International Meditation Resort, and started handing out a report outlining drinking water contamination at the centre. I was for this peaceful exercise assaulted. I then wrote an article titled Notice of Eviction, an article that has been posted on the Sannyasnews website. It is interesting to note that soon after I plastered this article all over Koregaon Park, I was assaulted a second time.
I am not aware of any action taken by the police with respect to the two complaints I lodged. Both assaults started in the area of the main gate, and so the video surveillance would have captured this. This video evidence will fit exactly with what I have documented in my complaints to police.
During my stay in Pune I was verbally threatened with being beaten; I have been pushed and punched; I have been threatened with a broom stick, sticks, metal rods, and possibly a disguised threat with a knife.
My information site has moved from “nomindspiration.com” to “oshobuddhism.blogspot.com”.
I am now seeking legal advice to determine my next course of action.
Love and yahoo,
Prem Abhay
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Who Really Poisoned Osho?
The idea of Osho being poisoned by United States authorities makes for a good story, but as has been regularly pointed out, it does not fit with Osho’s circumstances. For the two years following The Ranch break-up Osho at least appeared to be in reasonably health. He has admittedly said that since that time he has felt some deterioration in his health. However what does not make sense is the dramatic turn of events that occurred when Osho had a minor ear infection that simply would not heal. As explained by Osho, he spent the next 7 weeks gravelly ill in a battle of life and death. It was this sudden and rapid deterioration, of which he never seemed to recover from, that struck me.
During his returning to better health discourse he kept repeating 7 weeks, and also kept referring to it all starting with an ear infection. This discourse was given on the 6th November, 1987. Hence 7 weeks prior to this takes us to around the 19th of September, 1987. The unusual thing about the minor ear infection is that it simply would not heal.
There have been many theories of how Osho was poisoned, with the most notable one being that of the heavy metal Thallium poisoning. Also, it has been noted that it takes around 8 weeks for the Thallium to disappear from the body. Dr Amrito, Osho’s personal physician was of the view that it could have been fluorocarbon. Osho no doubt valued Dr Amrito’s opinion – as Osho was fond of saying, Dr Amrito is a fellow of the Royal Society of Physicians in England, and the youngest member at that. There were many other professional opinions, and there was also the notion of Nitrous Oxide poisoning – excess usage in the dental chair over a long period.
The tact taken in this report differs from all previous accounts that I am aware of. For me it was always the ear infection which stood out (apart from the 7 weeks). It was not until I discovered the brilliance of Shakespeare that I started wondering.
In Shakespeare’s ‘Hamelet’ Claudius poisoned Hamlet’s father by pouring a vial of a deadly poison into his ear while he was having an afternoon nap: ”with juice of cursed hebenon in a vial, and in the porches of my ears did pur the leperous distilment…that swift as quicksilver … courses through the natural gates and alleys of the body…Thus was I, sleeping, by a brother’s hand, of life, of crown, of queen, at once dispatched.”
It was a discovery of the time that it was possible for fluid to pass from the middle ear to the back of the nose and throat. It was thought that this was caused by an ear infection causing a membrane to perforate. Hence it was known that a poison administered through the ear can actually be ingested. With the wisdom of modern medicine, it is now known that this passage is not the result of infection, and is called the Eustachian tube.
Ear infections were frequent at the time, and as mentioned it was thought that a perforated ear drum meant that a liquid in the ear can pass through the perforation and travel to the back of the throat. Hence at the time of Shakespeare’s writings there was an account of a French surgeon being suspected of killing the King of France by giving him an ear infection.
Two fictional references that involve poisoning via the Eustachian tube include:
Huizinga E: Murder through the ear. Pract Oto-rhino-laryng, 1971.
Kan JA: Atropine poisoning in Hawthane’s The Scarlet Letter. NEJM
In the non-fictional domain we have the following reference:
Eclectic medical journal, Volume 22 – 1863, Ohio State Eclectic Medical Association, Worthington College (Ohio). Reformed Medical Dept
pp43-44 On Secret Poisoning – A paper having this terrible title was read by Professor Harley, at the Meeting of the British Association, held last month at Cambridge…yet he was sorry to say he could not but repeat the statement he made last year in a paper on slow poisoning, read before the Royal Medico-Chirurgical Society of London….Nay, more, he even went a step further, and declared that he not only believed that we magnified the difficulty of perpetrating the crime, but that we were also inclined to exaggerate the facility of its detection.
The article goes on to discuss how in small doses a slow death may result in the toxin going undetected.
The previous 5 pages of the journal discussed medical issues pertaining to the Eustachian tube.
The Royal Medical and Chirurgical Society of London is now the Royal Society of Medicine.
Thanks to a google search there is the following text reference:
Criminal Poisoning: An Investigational Guide for Law Enforcement, … – Google Books Result, by John H. Trestrail – 2000 – Medical – 184 pages
XI: Thallium as “an untraceable poison,” Pharmacy History, … Huizinga E: Murder through the ear. Pract Oto-rhino-laryng, 1971;33:361-365. …
books.google.com.au/books?isbn=1588291332…
Other editions
Edition 2 – 2007 – Limited preview
Edition 1 – 1899 – No preview available
Also from Google, there has been a scientific study of the effects of thallium on rats:
Revised Final Report: Toxicity of Thallium (I)
DW-89922097 between EPA and the U.S. Department of Energy. …. The study was conducted according to EPA TSCA GLP guidelines in place at the time. The …
oaspub.epa.gov/eims/eimscomm.getfile?p_download_id=471675
In the comments by a Dr. Koller we have that … extra steps were taken in an attempt to diagnose an unexpected ear lesion that occurred in all groups of rats in this study.
What about a possible motive? A little discussed but very real personal issue for those close to him was always whether and when you would be replaced by Osho. If you are not his personal physician, dentist, secretary, or indeed financial donor, than who are you? You might say well if a personal aid killed Osho, then what is the use of being an aid to a dead person? If you were Osho’s personal aid when he left the body, then this is how it will stay. You will always be his personal ‘aid’. Also, if for example you were sitting on certain boards of certain trusts and foundations, or if you were a signatory to certain bank accounts, then having that unchanged has certain advantages.
Let me be very clear here and state that the above proposition is a line of inquiry and is not an accusation.
The notion of secret poisoning reminds me of all the sanyassins and visitors of the Pune resort who have over the years unknowingly consumed contaminated ‘drinking’ water.
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The “Inner Circle” was mandated to make Osho fully available in a non-interfering and practical way.
So what is on offer then? Osho was certainly a changing phenomenon. In some stages he was more like Amma, and at other times he was embodying the essence of J Krishnamurti. Yes Osho moved across the full spectrum of spirituality in both theory and practice. It is interesting to note that when the West was indulging in the free love movement of the 70’s Krishnamurti maintained his steady dull tack, and was a spiritual outcast as a result. On the other hand Osho just so happened to develop his views and practices into a form that merged ever so neatly with the free love hippy movement. Perhaps it was just a coincidence rather than a cosmic accident or divine providence. Osho became immensely popular as a result. Of course the 70’s finished after ten years, and as the years rolled by the ever so sweet revolution of love and godliness turned sour – no doubt things like AIDS and rampant corruption made hefty contributions. In the end Osho again changed his style. Some would say that he embodied a Zen style in the last years.
Can anything be drawn from this temporal or chronological analysis? Is there any delimiting marks that define these changes in style? Or is it perhaps just our minds that like to impose an understanding on a wise being? Was there a hidden order within all the grand disorder, and is this then to be furthered or nurtured?
Is there anything in the argument that Osho was refining his vision? If yes, then even though there is a practical mandate, that mandate is surely to maintain his greatest and final masterpiece, and offer this prize to the world. Nonetheless we have that Zen embodies devotion, and that Osho, in theory and practice, still demonstrated a deeply inherent thread of devotion – even till the very end.
Anyhow, if there is a dividing line, where is it. Actually and more accurately, when was it. If there was a line that brought in the silent Zen revolution, then surely there were other lines to. Osho was at one stage a free love guru. He also at times was entirely in accordance with Krishnamurti in that any form of relationship that puts another being above you is destined for failure. Yet he was also for a time a mainstream Indian feet kissing guru.
So where are these demarcations? Also, if Zen is right, then these previous periods of evolution (prior to each revolution) must be in some way wrong. Logically, this must go in order such that his first utterances and actions after enlightenment were the most wrong. This seems a little counter intuitive. Surely, even if you support this view of refinement, he was post enlightenment always pretty much ‘right’. Surely his earlier discourses are full of wisdom as opposed to utter trash.
Some adherents would say Osho’s words are still contemporary, and are always timeless. Other ‘sincere’ sannyasins will disagree and say his message will not really be understood (by the masses) for centuries to come. They can even give you an Osho quote to back it up, and explain that this is why he was misunderstood in his time, and why he was a magnet for criminality unsurpassed by any modern day spiritual teacher.
What interests me is what of his post-Enlightenment discourses is this referring to? Is it that his discourses in Pune 2 (87-89) offer his finest insights, are now contemporary, and will ultimately be most relevant in a couple of hundred years or so? The current Zen-style “Inner Circle” argue from the perspective of these last years (apparently). I would say that they have a limited and deeply biased view of his last years. In any case, the argument seems to be that his earlier “Indian Guru” and “Sex Guru” eras were wrong, out-of-date, or in the least a few rough drafts.
If these earlier eras were pre-Enlightenment you might at least have the basis for a case. (Of course much more would be required). Yet Osho was be his own unchanging account enlightened in 1953 at the age of 21. I do not know when it might be said to be that Osho was a ‘typical’ Indian style guru, but it seems that he was so some 15 and more years after his enlightenment. I should have thought this reasonable time to iron out a few crossed wires in the brain from the diamond thunderbolt! Perhaps he was appealing to the peculiarities of the Indian culture at the time, just the same as he later appealed to the peculiarities of a 1970’s sexual revolution.
It might be plausible here to argue that he refined his understanding as he came across different types of people and cultures. This makes some sense. Osho read widely throughout his life and in this way he became exposed to more and more intellectual views. He also was fond of noting that he liked to observe people, and learn from this. Presumably in observing different types of people and different cultural groups, he would learn from this. Presumably he could also share this learning and help the different groups evolve.
Even if we accept the above scenario it cannot be extended to the idea that any particular group or culture is wrong or primitive. Devotion is one of the four paths of yoga – Bhakti Yoga. We have it that Osho catered for devotion in an overt way as a ‘typical’ Indian guru up to the early 70’s. So the path of devotion is as old as spirituality in man. Osho presumable had a very deep grasp of this path, and was some twenty years involved with its unique Indian qualities. All of a sudden we have a hippy revolution originating in the West, and so does Bhagwan Rajneesh’s style, actions, and discourses suddenly become what…out of date, or perhaps transcended? Would you like here to posit that the free love hippy movement was more evolved than the Indian consciousness? If so, why did Osho not start out as a “Sex Guru” rather than a ‘typical’ Indian style guru? It is not as if the entwining of sex and spirituality was not a regular theme throughout the history of the sub-continent.
If we follow this type of cultural analysis through Osho’s life time we can do little more then indulge in philosophical or intellectual speculation. If you would like to take certain years as ‘the golden years’ then you have enumerable problems to explain. If 1987-1990 were the golden years, then what happened from 1953-1986, some 35 years of post-Enlightened life. What is it…two decades in the ‘Stone Age’ as a ‘typical’ Indian guru, and one decade in the ‘Bronze Age’ as a sex guru? If you take this view it inherently means accepting a view of cultural superiority. Western hippies are more spiritually evolved than Indian devotees, and the Western leaning Zen-style collective is more evolved than both.
As an intellectual endeavour arguing for the refinement hypothesis it may be more fruitful, if accepting there are clearly defined different ‘eras’, that Osho refined his teachings within each ‘era’, and for each cultural or spiritual group. If you were a devotional type and were following Bhakti Yoga, presumably it would be best to listen to some discourse from some time in the early 70’s. What about the end of the sex revolution? Was that defined by the end of Pune 1, or perhaps the collapse of The Ranch? In any case, if you have a suppressed sexuality, I suppose you should listen to a few discourses from the end of that era.
I don’t subscribe to either of the two above theories. If you are a devotional type, then perhaps an earlier discourse will be more spiritually valuable. If you have a repressed sexuality then perhaps a discourse from Pune 1 would be most spiritually fruitful. If you are like to sit in the lotus position then possibly listening to some Pune 2 discourses would be most helpful. Maybe, but who is to say. Just listen to the discourses. The array of subjects is staggering, at all times. Do you think there is nothing for the Bhakti Yoga enthusiast is his supposedly Zen-style Pune 2 discourses? Do you think there is nothing for the Zen-style enthusiast in his discourses from the early days? This notion of delimiting Osho to certain fixed eras, and the notion of refinement, is on the surface laughable, and beyond that deeply hypocritical and prejudiced.
Osho was deeply controversial and highly contradictory. Osho for example praised Chirstianity and then he condemned it. He did this on all variety of subjects. One day he would say one thing, then next the opposite. One year he would praise one ideology, the next year he would condemn it. One year he was a feet kissing Indian guru, the next year he was a sex guru. Of course some years down the track he more or less tried to take away the ‘sex’ label entirely. Certainly I personally like this or that about Osho, but can anything be said to be actually this or that (or right or wrong or whatever)?
Yes he refined certain meditations and meditative therapies, and then offered the final version, but the same is hard to draw about other aspects of Osho, including (and especially) his discourses. I am not aware that Osho ever said that post-Enlightenment he was getting better and better at giving speeches, that we was becoming wiser and wiser. Although I do recall at some stage he said he went beyond Enlightenment. Perhaps if we found out when exactly that happened, we can trash all the old enlightened stuff, and only listen to post-Enlightened wisdom.
What about another key issue, namely the celebrations of certain days. What about his birthday? What about Christ-mass? What about New Year’s eve, or even the Chinese new year?
At one stage he was a typical feet kissing guru. Yet later on he stopped or at least reduced such typically devotional physical contact from seekers. Presumably there were also gradual changes in the way certain days were celebrated. I would assume that the Indian calendar was full of special occasions for Bhagwan Rajneesh when he was a (relatively) typical Indian style guru. The free love 70’s (Western style hippie genre) I would guess saw a reduction in popularity and frequency of such occasions. Still it would have been deeply present, as though the hippies loved each other a lot, they also loved their Master a lot too.
The funny thing about The Ranch is that for the most part Osho was in isolation and seclusion. After The Ranch disaster his last years are argued to be more in Zen style. As previously stated there are nonetheless striking and regular occurrences of Osho initiated devotion, right to the very last. However I would say that a fair analysis will find that the style and timing of celebration days had changed compared with the past eras of pre-Pune and Pune I. I assume that there were no great lines of devotees waiting to kiss his feet during Pune II.
So what happens when Osho leaves the body? Obviously it should not be that the original form of dynamic be adopted by one or another faction. Osho introduced and then refined different meditations and therapies. He made this clear. The final versions of his different mediations and therapies are Osho end products. What to say then of for example celebration days, his pictures, or indeed associated devotional practices such as foot and marble kissing?
The practical mandate of the “Inner Circle” is to preserve and make available. Some people like to get together and have a party on New Years Eve. It would seem therefore a good practical management decision to have a big bash at the resort on the night. Lots of people come and get a taste of Osho. What then of the Indian Master’s day. What indeed about Osho’s other notable days? If no one wants to come then sure, no point. Yet it is very clear that this is not the case. On the surface this seems strange. Lots of people coming to the resort to get a taste of Osho, or to go deeper with Osho. What’s the problem?
The problem is that this may encourage the kind of devotion that either Osho was not really into, or that he gradually moved away from over the course of his enlightened life. Either Osho despised such practices yet accepted feet kissing losers for the sake of numbers and hope for salvation of their lost souls, or Osho gradually refined his approach and devotion was not part of the pure metal essence. Also, the “Inner Circle” has a practical mandate, and this is to offer the essential teachings and practices of Osho. Anything other then this core offering is in the realm of the subjective or superfluous. Either it is philosophical or non-essential. You see either way we have it that the marble kissing, picture gazing devotees are out of luck. This was either pre-70’s and therefore out of date, or it was clearly being gradually diminished over the few decades of his offerings. Sure there were still pictures on the walls of the ashram at the time of Osho leaving the body, but were they not there either as a legacy of a past era or as the reflection of a wayward seeker’s neediness. Is not the same for the personal celebration days of Osho’s?
Osho did not put the pictures up personally I assume, but did he explicitly or implicitly support this? Was he as usual detached and uninvolved? Was it that he opposed such measures yet was at times ignored? Perhaps it was like when he requested the act of physical touching his feet to be stopped. Now obviously we do not have to worry about that issue specifically, but does it point a way forward?
If Osho had a stroke and became deaf and dumb, what would happen if some old devotees wanted to touch his feet? This is an example of a devotional practice that Osho clearly allowed, and then clearly stopped. Did he do the same with other devotional practices? If feet kissing became popular in the West would Osho have again commenced the practice?
I would say that in general nothing clear will ever be ascertained with this general line of questioning. Sure there appears to be a trend if you like to plot points on a graph, but short of Osho making anything clear this is not helpful. The question of whether Osho was in a process of refinement or whether he was changing according to social and cultural trends will never be answered on his behalf.
Devotion is a faux pas in recent times, but what if it becomes popular again. What if it becomes the main-stream again? Is it that the resort should stubbornly maintain a New Years Eve bash with no takers, and have throngs of devotees outside the closed gates for Master’s day – with a pre-70’s devotional discourse burnt at the podium to mark the occasion?
Osho made it clear that he was refining his meditations. He did not make clear that the same is the case with respect to his ideological tenants. Also, the thread of devotion weaved its way through Osho from beginning to end. It was deeply present even in the so-called Zen era of Pune II- in the ashram, in Osho’s actions, in his discourses, and perhaps most importantly, in his people. To say that devotion was in general decline of the years may be an oversight. I would say that more accurately the devotional dimension became less and less obvious. To draw from this that subtle elements of devotion are less important than overt ones is a tough call.
Amma has her great devotees and J Krishnamurti told them to all get lost. The same cannot be said of Osho. He moved all over the religious spectrum. I would also say that you cannot plot the graph of overt devotion to be gradually declining (with respect to time) anyhow. Requesting that his ashes be placed under his bed and for people to come and meditate there is to me his last great offering, and it is of a devotional type. So how does that work? The graph goes down gradually for a few decades and then bounces up at the last? What is the trajectory of such a path?
Westerner’s and Western leaning locals like a good New Years party. Great, so have a party. What about if a small percentage of the 1.3 billion Chinese people start taking to the crazy guy? If they become the majority visitor at the resort presumably the Chinese new year will be the biggest event on the calendar.
Why is the resort closed at night time? There are a lot of night owl insomniac Osho sannyassins I am sure. If they become sufficient in number then the gates may not close at night. The decisions made in this regard is of course a practical one. The same can only ever be with any other decision involving certain dates or timing. Some people take exception to Osho’s birthday in the same way that others take exception to Christ-mass or Easter. They are welcome to not attend church but they do not have the right to stop others attending if it is their inclination.
If Osho sannyassins would like to come to the Osho space in Koregaon Park on one of Osho’s notable days then what practical reason is there to not cater for there needs? Even up until 2000 or so, throngs of people would weave there way through Osho’s Samadhi and bedroom on auspicious days. Sure people can come and meditate at the regular times. However the facility enhancement and corresponding price hikes have meant that the space is becoming less and less accessible (including for Westerners). Also, if you were to come on a special day (that is special to you), your needs are not catered for. There is in fact a general and pervasive culture of shunning certain special interest groups.
It is true that the price of entrance and pricing in general reflect the cost structure of the current ‘business’. I also see no reason why the needs of financial well off people not be catered for. However there is no reason why this should exclude people from less fortunate financial backgrounds.
The resort is making Osho more and more unavailable to seekers with less financial resources. I see this as an infringement on the intrinsic objective of making Osho available to all seekers. If I, as a devotional type person, would like to visit Osho’s meditation bedroom, then I do not see why I should drain my limited financial resources to support an outrageously expensive pyramid or a new fitness club. It seems clear that Osho wanted an enclosed meditation auditorium, with water entirely surrounding it. Still, the enclosed meditation space could have been built for a fraction of the actual price (if differently designed). This was a practical decision that is part of a general strategy that is inevitably reflected in a general pricing that alienates people other then the financially well off.
You see here we have the same merry go round circus of arguments again. In the early days Osho was free, or after a time, at least you could visit his ashram for a nominal charge. Current management will tell you straight off that Osho was against the begging mentality of Indian spirituality and that he was a rich person’s guru. They can even give you a few quotes to back it up.
So Pune I was a bargain. Then have a look at how much it cost if you wanted to involve yourself in emotionally and financially draining Ranch. Presumably therefore the reasoning is that this is a process of refinement? The movement then shifted from a ranch that demanded outrageous financial contributions (that were sunk into criminality), to a Pune II that was pretty cheap by any standard. Actually this was the case for the entire decade of the 90’s (after Osho left the body). It was the most recent heavy financial investment in resort like facilities that triggered the price rises.
You cannot draw anything from Osho’s discourses, or from plotting a graph of price versus time, and gain anything from it. (This is the same as the previously pointed out futile exercise of trying to plot a graph of devotion versus time, or to understand the nature of Osho’s understanding and expression of devotional qualities). Osho never left any clear defining standard to follow in this regard. In other words, without any clear instructions, the management must fall back on its basic operating precept. That is, it simple needs to take steps to make the ‘resort’ as available to as many people as possible. Again I repeat that to build an enclosed sound-proof space, or to cater for the wealthy does not mean that people from other financial backgrounds need be excluded or compromised.
Perhaps all the devotional type Osho sannyassins and not actually legitimate. Who determines such immaterial matters? The central point is that all of that which comprises ‘Osho’ is to be preserved (as much as is practically possible), protected, and made available. No practical decision can be made to destroy anything of Osho’s – of course over time there will be physical decay, and this needs to be addressed. No practical reason can be given to deny some aspect of Osho that a seeker would like to imbibe.
One of the central pillars in Osho’s vast archive of treasures is that of devotion. The central position of the current “Inner Circle” is that it is offering the core of Osho, and has removed the unnecessary devotional baggage of needy seekers. Osho is simply his discourses and meditations. He is not about marble kissing and picture gazing. Essentially this logic is right if you personally want to set up your own centre accordingly. However as the “Inner Circle” there is a responsibility to offer all the dimensions of Osho, and hence the discourses that either touch on or focus on such matters (in a positive way) should be given equal preference with any other topic.
Another important point here is that the Koregaon Park ashram was where Osho was living. So in a sense he left behind more than audio recordings and meditation instructions. In some sense he left a building in Lao Tzu that contained a room with a bed containing his ashes, and a number of other structures and land. He had pictures and clothes and all sorts of other material things.
So again, uniquely in Pune, the “Inner Circle” had an additional responsibility. They had to look after some basic physical things. It is not a question of what to do with a pagoda or a Samadhi or whatever, based on your view of Osho’s tendencies with respect to devotion. This is nothing to do with the matter. The fact of the matter is that there are (were) physical things in existence.
It may be that some sannyassins a drawn to these physical things. It may be for reasons you either dislike or do not understand. That is irrelevant. There is an entrance gate and it was mandated with an open invitation to any and all seekers on the path, and there are physical things that have always been available to any interested seeker. In this way, there are no plausible grounds for changing such affairs. Of course you may let a building decay until it becomes a health and safety risk, and then get it destroyed because it is condemned. I think even this passive non-interference seeks to subjugate a clear implicit responsibility to protect and preserve.
Osho has stated that the path is from student, to disciple, to devotee. The devotee is the most intune with the Master…has almost merged, or is almost One with the Master. Perhaps critiques of devotion can come up with a different quote of Osho. Does that version go in reverse…from devotee, to disciple, to student? Of course the term ‘devotee’ will mean different things to different people, but what it is referring to remains.
What does it mean to be closest to the Master? In J Krishnamurti’s case he would say this is a misunderstanding. He would say a highly conscious seeker becomes close to truth, is actually the farthest from him, and call this person nearly “O”. In Amma’s case she would say the person is closest to her and is nearly “1”. In Osho’s case it could be either “O” or “1”, or indeed somewhere else along the spiritual spectrum – as he was this kind of Master, and welcomed all seekers walking all paths. Of course many so-called Osho sannyasins are not seekers, and are stuck “1/2” way, ignorant of their own way, whilst imposing their misconceptions and objections on others and their natural way (with Osho).
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Some adherents would say Osho’s words are still contemporary, and are always timeless. Other ‘sincere’ sannyasins will disagree and say his message will not really be understood (by the masses) for centuries to come. They can even give you an Osho quote to back it up, and explain that this is why he was misunderstood in his time, and why he was a magnet for criminality unsurpassed by any modern day spiritual teacher.
What interests me is what of his post-Enlightenment discourses is this referring to? Is it that his discourses in Pune 2 (87-89) offer his finest insights, are now contemporary, and will ultimately be most relevant in a couple of hundred years or so? The current Zen-style “Inner Circle” argue from the perspective of these last years (apparently). I would say that they have a limited and deeply biased view of his last years. In any case, the argument seems to be that his earlier “Indian Guru” and “Sex Guru” eras were wrong, out-of-date, or in the least a few rough drafts.
If these earlier eras were pre-Enlightenment you might at least have the basis for a case. (Of course much more would be required). Yet Osho was by his own unchanging account enlightened in 1953 at the age of 21. I do not know when it might be said to be that Osho was a ‘typical’ Indian style guru, but it seems that he was so for some 15 and more years after his enlightenment. I should have thought this reasonable time to iron out a few crossed wires in the brain from the diamond thunderbolt! Perhaps he was appealing to the peculiarities of the Indian culture at the time, just the same as he later appealed to the peculiarities of a 1970’s sexual revolution.
It might be plausible here to argue that he refined his understanding as he came across different types of people and cultures. This makes some sense. Osho read widely throughout his life and in this way he became exposed to more and more intellectual views. He also was fond of noting that he liked to observe people, and learn from this. Presumably in observing different types of people and different cultural groups, he would learn from this. Presumably he could also share this learning and help the different groups evolve. Still, in the sense that he claims to be enlightened, I would assume that all his utterances carried the fragrance of truth, and that this was what was ultimately important.
Even if we accept the above scenario of learning, it cannot be extended to the idea that any particular group or culture is wrong or primitive. Devotion is one of the four paths of yoga – Bhakti Yoga. We have it that Osho catered for devotion in an overt way as a ‘typical’ Indian guru up to the early 70’s. So the path of devotion is as old as spirituality in man. Osho presumably had a very deep grasp of this path, and was some twenty years involved with its unique Indian qualities. All of a sudden we have a hippy revolution originating in the West, and so does Bhagwan Rajneesh’s Indian guru style, actions, and discourses suddenly become what…out of date, or perhaps transcended? Would you like here to posit that the free love hippy movement was more evolved than the Indian consciousness? If so, why did Osho not start out as a “Sex Guru” rather than a ‘typical’ Indian style guru? It is not as if the entwining web of sex and spirituality was not a regular theme throughout the history of the sub-continent.
If we follow this type of cultural analysis through Osho’s life time we can do little more then indulge in philosophical or intellectual speculation. If you would like to take certain years as ‘the golden years’ then you have enumerable problems to explain. If 1987-1990 were the golden years, then what happened from 1953-1986, some 36 years of post-Enlightened life. What is it…two decades in the ‘Stone Age’ as a ‘typical’ Indian guru, and one decade in the ‘Bronze Age’ as a sex guru? If you take this view it inherently means accepting a view of cultural superiority. Western hippies are more spiritually evolved than Indian devotees, and the Western leaning Zen-style collective is more evolved than both.
As an intellectual endeavour arguing for the refinement hypothesis it may be more fruitful, if accepting there are clearly defined different ‘eras’, that Osho refined his teachings within each ‘era’, and for each cultural or spiritual group. If you were a devotional type and were following Bhakti Yoga, presumably it would be best to listen to some discourse from some time in the early 70’s. What about the end of the sex revolution? Was that defined by the end of Pune 1, or perhaps the collapse of The Ranch? In any case, if you have a suppressed sexuality, I suppose you should listen to a few discourses from the end of that era.
I don’t subscribe to either of the two above theories. If you are a devotional type, then perhaps an earlier discourse will be more spiritually valuable. If you have a repressed sexuality then perhaps a discourse from Pune 1 would be most spiritually fruitful. If you are like to sit in the lotus position then possibly listening to some Pune 2 discourses would be most helpful. Maybe, but who is to say. Just listen to the discourses. The array of subjects is staggering, at all times. Do you think there is nothing for the Bhakti Yoga enthusiast is his supposedly Zen-style Pune 2 discourses? Do you think there is nothing for the Zen-style enthusiast in his discourses from the early days? This notion of delimiting Osho to certain fixed eras, and the notion of refinement, is on the surface laughable, and beyond that deeply hypocritical and prejudiced.
Osho has stated that the path is from student, to disciple, to devotee. The devotee is the most in-tune with the Master…has almost merged, or is almost One with the Master. Perhaps critics of devotion can come up with a different quote from Osho. Does that version go in reverse…from devotee, to disciple, to student? Of course the term ‘devotee’ will mean different things to different people, but what it is referring to remains.
What does it mean to be closest to the Master? In J Krishnamurti’s case he would say this is a misunderstanding. He would say a highly conscious seeker who becomes close to truth is actually the farthest from him, and would call this person nearly “O”. In Amma’s case she would say the person is closest to her and is nearly “1”. In Osho’s case it could be either “O” or “1”, or indeed somewhere else along the spiritual spectrum – as he was this kind of Master, and welcomed all seekers walking all paths. Of course many so-called Osho sannyasins are not seekers, and are stuck “1/2” way, ignorant of their own way, whilst imposing their misconceptions and objections on others and their natural way.
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Wow, talk about bad luck with that flying bale of hay!!!
Patience OshoBob. Although I must admit I am beginning to think there might be something in that conspiracy theory of yours. Be a sheep or a fence sitter or hide in the bushes through ever so sweet lies, but don’t jump in a lions den with a gang of thieves!
Do you see the pervasive culture of endless power grabbing back at the farm? A few top dogs kicked out the majority of the original “Inner Circle”. What next then? Make a plush resort inline with a materialistic, elitist Zen-like idealism. Get a stack of trademarks under your belt. How to do this? Tell the trademarks office that you control all the global centres even though you don’t and never have, and don’t tell them that Osho is a famous guru who stole his name from the orient. What next? Send a letter to all the centres globally telling them that they are under your control because you now have some fancy trademarks. They officially come under your control so that the swifty you pulled with the trademarks office looks all above board – don’t worry about the dates! Keep the global centres in line through insights gained from reading the Nazi SS espionage handbook. In general I have nothing against Germans these days, but isn’t Vatayana and Pramod from that part of the globe. What about publishing? Edit Osho’s words so that Osho sounds just the way you like him and nothing like who he is. Market this populist fiction. This is a global empire in the making. Main problem is on the way they forgot to fix the drinking water at the resort so that for many years people who came during the monsoon drank seriously contaminated water. Of course that is just one perspective. There are other problems. Essentially they have in their blind greed steam-rolled Osho, his place of last residence, and all his people. Hard workers, at least this much I congratulate them on. Sure they have their following, but then hey, so did Hitler.
Dilruba: You say that you can feel my pain. I write because I can see the situation, and part of the reason I can do that is because it is not my pain. There are so many seekers that have been side-lined or pushed out or demonized, and it is the pain of this collective of Osho sannyasins that you refer to. I am not part of this collective.
Lokesh: Your comment demonstrates that you did not follow what I wrote, let alone understand the motivation for it. In a way though, what you say at the last is in line with what I concluded. I suppose I would call that a fLuke!
The justification for the direction of the Osho community taken by the current dictatorial regime is based on certain personal theories about Osho. The personal choice that the ruling elite seek to force on all others is based on ill-conceived views about Zen, devotion, intellectual refinement, material value, and many other things. I look at firstly how their personal views show a complete lack of clarity with respect to these issues. Secondly, I look at how this is completely out of touch with Osho’s relationship to these issues.
You essentially say Osho has transcended all religions. In my analysis I conclude that Osho is a synthesis of all religions. To say that Osho is a break from the past and offers something completely new, rather than to say that Osho takes the essence of the past and offers this, is redundant! The reason is because all religions start with the essential thread of religiousness. They inevitably get transformed into empty acts of worship and great intellectual treatise full of ego. Still the essence of each religion offers an authentic path. It may be a path that suits a certain type of person. If it is one of the main religions, then it is a network of paths suited to many types of people. If authentic religiousness is clouded by personal bias, than it is a dead religion. Welcome to the religion of Osho.
Osho has offered many and varied ways for many and varied seekers. The current regime has not only cut off most of these ways, but has made a quagmire of the elitist and materialistic, non-devotional Zen-style that suits them.
As far as a few of your pet topics goes, I would say that you do not understand the distinction between providing a defence, and being defensive. Ever heard of a good game of football without a goalie? Sure if the ego is hurt an automatic response is to react. In psychological terminology it is called being defensive. It shows that a person has an ego. I don’t consider that a particularly helpful nor insightful deduction.
Is there anything else in me that can really be hurt, rather then just this false entity called the ego? If I am attacked by a knife wielding assailant do you think that I should just stand absolutely still, close my eyes, and go in, knowing that if I were to do anything in response would show my ego at play? If someone lies to me or betrays my confidence, should I just say that that is cool because I am an Osho sannyasin? Even though I feel that a deep injustice has been done, actually it is OK that they hurt my feelings because it is just my ego that is hurt.
Each person has an identity and a personal space that should be respected. Any self-respecting person defends this space, any self-deprecating person allows and welcomes its infringement, and any domineering person indulges in its violation. To defend this is not about emotional reaction and ego. It is about integrity, understanding, and responsiveness. It is the difference between being assertive and aggressive.
You also like to repeat one of Osho’s sayings that comparison is the root of all jealousy. Comparison is not the root of all jealousy. Desire is the root of all jealousy. When you desire something that you cannot have, or when you desire this rather than that, there is an automated mental and emotional response. The mental response is to make a comparison. The emotional response is jealousy.
To say that comparison is the root of all jealousy leads people to wrongly think that the way out of the torment of jealousy is somehow about dropping an intellectual process. “If I could just stop comparing this with that I would be free of jealousy”. So-called Osho therapists are good at going down this path with their victims. Everyone walks around thinking “I need to just stop comparing”, and ignore the deeper process of desiring this or that, and the reason why this process of desiring takes place in the first place.
Frank:
one door closes
another opens
one door opens
another door closes
now I get it
a revolving door
Prem Bubbie: You want to know which Prem Abhay I am…I am not the one that used to go to the German Bakery just at the start of White-Robe.
Satya Deva: Are you remaining silent so you can later on pretend to be me, and thus play a part in the doppel gang illusion? Or is it that you have a headache from trying to work out what 1% of Shantam’s writings has any merit. My suggestion is to aim for one paragraph rather than a book. Being generous I suggest you include two rather than one loopy metaphor.
Shantam Prem: Just wondering when we all pop over to your place for a bash whether you will also put on a party at GB? Should be a real blast! I’ll have a banana lassie and spinach burger with fries (NO salad!). Do we get a free backpack for our take-away?
Anand: You seem to be trying to convince yourself that your favourite Osho heroes are doing pretty good really. I think it is hilarious that you say that hey, they gotta be better than Sheela and The Ranch. Not much of a base line for comparison I would have thought. You should stick to what you are good at…remembering and sharing facts. Leave the analysis stuff to someone else. So you like visiting terrorist blast sites, you like hanging out at Indian airports looking for Osho big wigs, and you like collecting original Osho transcripts. What, did you bug the dental room? Strange fellow indeed!
OshoBob: What, do they have wi-fi in your cell in Xiamen prison? Fair enough to start up an eco-village, but really, what were you thinking…trying to promote meditation is one thing, but wild dancing…that was too much!
Lokesh, your example of jealousy points to the ability of this term to be applied to the more literal meaning of envy. I do not think that it usually works the other way. I can see how at a purely intellectual level envy is more associated with comparison than is jealousy. I have a sense that Osho is confusing the meaning of the two terms, and refers to jealousy when he actually meant envy.
OshoBob, you summarise the situation well. You say that these ‘eras’ that I have identified and examined are really just broad generalisations, and at a closer look the boundaries are very much blurred, even to the point of perhaps actually not being there at all. Looking at all this Osho drama, it took me quite a while to work out what was going on. The reason is because, like you (and Lokesh), I do not see any boundaries at all. Also, it is hard to get a handle on where the reclusive regime is coming from as they know all to well the value of secrecy. It is the regime that is trying to slice up Osho in time and in character. It is the regime that has created the Osho Zen framework and pitted it against what it negatively denotes as devotion. I simply follow their lead and demonstrate that actually such an approach does not work.
It is nice and well to say hey the Osho pie comes whole or not at all. Lokesh made such a comment in response to what I wrote. This however is unhelpful if just one piece of the piece sits in the hands of a few, and the rest is in the trash – especially when the only piece of the pie left has beef jerky stuck in it, and a cherry on top.
See the joke? I critique something made up by the new Osho priests, and then people offer a critique of me by saying hey that stuff is really just made up.
Only trouble is, fiction so often becomes reality – by the ignorant mind. The new priesthood made up the divisions, and twenty years down the track there really are divisions. Devotional and other types really have been deeply alienated or removed from the scene. And yes I agree that the nature of Zen in its land of origin is helpful to debunk myths surrounding its exploitation under the banner of Osho.
Just see the list of banned buddhas. Have they done anything unethical? Have they done anything criminal? Have they tried to raise awareness of and bring and end to criminality?
Just see the number of seekers that go to an Osho Master’s day celebration at a rented out hall down the road from the Master’s home as a blatant pointer to something deeply wrong.
The lead article above demonstrates how the remaining global network of centres that are more ideologically aligned with the powers that be are now deeply alienated and confused.
This is where it gets interesting. The gang had a good argument. It was very convincing indeed, especially when it fitted with a certain type of person. I think of our psycho Professor Big Tony…educated, have a bit of money behind them, like nice things, and primarily are interested in individual meditation, and a little indulgent play with the opposite sex. This group of people was willing to believe in the lies of the establishment because it satisfied their needs. Only thing is, when the gang finished a clean sweep of the resort, they were still hungry. They tried to take control of the global centres that supported their Zen ideology.
Now the global centres that are (were) somewhat aligned with their elitist and materialistic Zen style are in a puzzle. There belief that OshoWorld, affiliates, and others, are bad and nasty is called into question. Surely that nutter Abhay who complained about the water is a nutter. Hmmm? Surely people would not have drank contaminated water for years at the resort during the monsoon, and finance did not even budge an inch…not even to buy a few filters, let alone fix the problem to the point that the water system was at least of reasonable standard. And all you old Osho engineers don’t start dancing up and down and whingeing. I am not talking about Pune 1. I am talking about the twenty-first century. Stuck in the past?
Tell you what. I have an idea. I collected some water from the past years during the monsoons. I have a jug full for each person that sits down at the Osho global big wigs conference at the resort this time. Happy drinking and hope you enjoy your first taste of reality back from your insanity!!!
Same goes for China!
Lokesh: Point is if any of the high priests at the Global Connections Council Elect annual conference get seriously ill from sculling their entire jug of the resorts contaminated drinking water, I want to let them know that you will go and visit them at the local hospital. That way they will have courage and drink the toxic water knowing that if they get rushed off to hospital, they will still have at least one Osho sannyasin friend.
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Life is a joke isn’t it? All these serious people in the world and Osho always used to say this was an inherent sickness in all the dead religions…didn’t he? Wait, I am sure I can get you a thousand quotes to back up my argument…oops, now I am being serious.
It may be helpful to make light of things sometimes. It may be that things are anyhow light. Still, to always take the approach that everything is a comic strip makes me a little suspicious. Non-seriousness in the Osho world is so often reflected by great crowds of people laughing loudly, and most importantly at nothing at all. If you are sitting nearby, or walk passed, what happens? Do you feel any temptation to be also drawn into a great belly laugh – you know how infectious a really good laugh is. Or, is it that you feel a little flat afterwards and wonder why it seemed like all the laughing was an utterly fake act. Strangely I have that same feeling when I read the repeated jokes here on SannyasNews lately.
It seems to me that the jokes are a front to avoid something. You are comfortable going to the resort or doing the things you do, and all these ‘serious’ issues are a challenging to your vested interests. To get into an intellectual debate is a bit of a challenge, especially when you have not a case other than power hungry lies to try and support. Of course you can simply ignore or dismiss the quite murmurings of discontent, yet still this leaves the ego a little unsteady, and that is little joy for great spiritual Osho beings. So a good light hearted banter and a quote about passing clouds should do the trick.
Perhaps there is a fear that the Osho mafia may get wind of your discontent, and to make a joke distances yourself and shows you are not involved at all. This is a little funny when you are motivated enough to repeat a boring joke endlessly.
If you are an editor of a website, perhaps reject any offerings to have the real story told as a
Thanks Swami Detective. So what is behind the story of the hacking at the Sannyas News and Osho World?
What is the real true story of Amrito and Jayesh together during the last hour of Osho’s death? What really happened? Why was his body burned in such a hurry?
Jayesh has taken over the real estate and business of the Osho resort Pune with no obligation to make income and expenses of the non-profit available to the public. He has also taken over all international publishing rights for books and digital through some sort of mix of international companies based in USA, UK and Hong Kong.
For 2011 I wish all banned sannyasins get together on a facebook project and claim their freedom back.
A new religion is being promoted as a zen like cold manifesto of Jayesh’s ideas. A religion created by smokers and drunkards. Freedom of speech is systematically taken hostage at 17 Koregaon Park.
Shantam here is the only lone crusader, while the rest of the disciples are hanging out in Goa.
Osho’s messages are being presented in Pune in a corporate template while the heart of Osho is rising in the world in his people free and without borders.
Shantam here is the only lone crusader, while the rest of the disciples are hanging out in Goa.
Osho’s messages are being presented in Pune in a corporate template while the heart of Osho is rising in the world in his people free and without borders.
(Fake Anand)
So free and so without boarders….that when someone English disciple wants to express his opinion, he uses a fake identity.
Is writing about Osho is a forbidden pleasure on the border lines to guilt?
There must be social stigma around Osho?
Some body sho is a loser in the eyes of His Christian or HIndu ancestors will fall so low to get his pleasure and meaning of life by being an under cover.
Is it not worst than a suicide…??
Swami Det, I found your latest comment interesting enough to read the whole thing.
I think the important thing to note about adopting a non-serious attitude to life is that it is no joke. The reason why a sense of humor is important in life is that life is, often as not, a serious business. You live, maybe get old, get sick and die…if anything it is a bad joke. Right now my old amigo, Mexican Rupesh, is in a hospice in Mexico dying. It saddens me to know that. Yet I do not take it too seriously because I know that life is transient and that death is the portal we all have to step through when leaving this world. The joke is that we become attached to the little person that we believe ourselves to be. Self-limitation is our biggest problem. Adopting a non-serious attitude about the false self that we are all identified with helps loosen the shackles, but when the reality hits you that you are as about as significant as a puff of smoke a sense of humour will soften the impact. For me, Osho’s teaching about non-seriousness is one of his greatest contributions to life.
Shantam:
People behind martyn and bubbie kind of fakes are what i will call, cement bags in the stone format.
SD:
Wrong yet again, Shantam!
Maths evidently not your strong point…One does not equal Two…Back to kindergarden school for you!
Now, try again:….
Well it seems only a small percentage of the Osho Wiki dump made the long journey from the undisclosed location across cyber-space to the peeping prone Sannyasnews site. However it did duplicate itself, so perhaps you win some lose some. Also, though I cannot go to OshoWorld to check, while Harri Om had quite a number of articles posted, I have a nagging in the back of my mind that says Who Poisoned Osho did not make it onto that site. Funny thing is though, the latest two posts on Osho World do have a striking resemblance to two comments I made in this chat stream. They were written by someone called Swami Dete. It is indeed a mysterious cyber world. I wonder what the hacker is thinking to do next?
Lokesh you have repeated your position about non-seriousness so many times that I am starting to think you are taking it seriously. This concept of adopting a non-serious attitude is an errant one. It means that you are endeavouring to adopt a fixed way of dealing with any given situation. Also, it is just a shifty way of the mind trying to deceive itself that some circumstance is not serious. The mind develops an in built program that says when something serious happens, say that it is non-serious. It is a simple concentration technique for relaxation, but nothing profound. Such a technique in dismissing a matter is superficial and will ultimately always fail. On the surface you will be light and fluffy, and underneath you will be a warzone readying.
That is not to say that it does not work for you, and that some people are naturally of such a disposition. Situations are always different, and the way people respond to them will also differ. I would say that some people are naturally inclined to deal with difficult situations by adopting a son-serious approach. I would also say that other people are inclined to respond in other ways, some of which may look to people like you as being serious. They are not necessarily stuck in a rut, but rather may be responding in the way that is naturally to them. You cannot impose non-seriousness, else it becomes a serious chore – a little like having to meditate. If it is there it is there, if not then something else is. If you are OK with that something else, than you are non-serious.
Not everyone is born to be a stand up comedian like vanishing Frank. Ironically, though Osho is not without humour, if I were compelled to categorize him, he would be in a ‘serious’ category. You have a bias against ‘seriousness’ in the same way that Amrito is blind to ‘devotion’. You both also have that conviction based on selective listening and consequent misunderstanding of Osho based on a generalisation from your own individual circumstances. Such a generalisation is in this case entirely unjustified and therefore prone to being an infringement on other peoples ways of living.
I appreciate you say ‘for me’, but it is good to be reminded that for others, and maybe in certain circumstances, it is perfectly good to be something else, maybe even serious.
Anand, I didn’t know they had Wi-Fi down there in the Antarctic waters? At least you realise that such questions need to be asked, and yes need to be answered. If enough people realise this, or if the brigade run out of many, then we will be getting somewhere. Otherwise, I guess we just get absorbed into the silent minority of the censured cyber community. Who knows, we might just get a collective nomination for the next Nobel Peace prize. Are the jail cells as nice in India as they are in China?
Anand, you being one of the arche type face of someone, who has also created your double ganger Frank..
With Anand, i can have some syncronicity…so i request this Anand, to tell his boss to write intensively but with original sannyas name.
If not possible because of any reason, he can tell atleast through Anand. Frank side will take it little more lightly.
In Short, Rise of Amrito and Jayesh, two western disciples at the cost of everyone else in the Osho scheme of things is one of the biggest tragedy, i am sure even Osho could not have thought of.
Shantam, few are either foolish enough or courageous enough to write with their real identity. Of course some tigers have spots. It works as a camouflage in the jungles.
I would say that the ruling powers have few friends left. Whomsoever has stuck it out or worked their way in, for Inner-Circle glory or Black-Robe therapist stardom or whatever, is part of the ruling powers that be. This would also include the faithful Global Connections centre leaders. What it also means is that there is a globally pervasive network that has demonstrated terror and coercion, and so who has reason to feel safe and free to speak and act? Who is safe and free to speak and act?
The oppression, coercion, and violence has been demonstrated. So too has utter ignorance, complete inconsistency, and irate irrationality. It is like our friends in North Korea. Their concept of reason is difficult to fathom. This is because they are unreasonable. All the faculties are not fully functioning. Though the matter is so black and white it needs little reinforcing, still it be said that the language cannot be used as an excuse or explanation. South Korea, with the same language, is proof of this. The outcome of such situations is that future actions and conduct is difficult to predict. It is exactly the same as making predictions about the mentally insane. You can start to see patterns, but are coming from a sane perspective, and so there is always the possibility of being proved wrong. Scary stuff indeed!
The marketing campaign is still going to fool quite a few, same as in the last years. New people turn up at the gateless gate and believe what is a very slick lie. However all the people that get a taste of the bitter truth also get a taste (or sense) of the ostracizing, slandering, threats of violence, and violence, towards any that stand in their away. This is why practical steps like suggested by Anand are not likely to be a successful option, especially on their own.
Have a look at Harri Om’s website. All his (or her) articles that disappeared from OshoWorld are there. Of course you won’t because you are scared of having your IP traced. It is not Harri Om that you need to be scared of, but you do not know that. The first survey on Harri’s site asks Have you been sick or injured at the resort? The survey reached a number of (at a guess) around ten participants. Let us say 4 people said that they had been injured or sickened, and 6 said that they had not. Now if you look at the results, there is only one participant. Did everyone get scared and redact their survey result or what? Was the site hacked or was there a redaction out of fear? There may be another perfectly reasonably explanation, I do not know.
http://oshodemocracy.blogspot.com
It is called Osho Movement for Democratic Change. Do some factual research on what Osho has actual said of democracy, as opposed to you or the ruling elites slanted and ignorant lies based on a popular, misinformed, and misleading anti-Western tide (you Swami As_ange lovers).
So how can anything positive move forward in a climate of oppression, fear, and violence? If you do not think this is the case, just for a little while adopt a position to the contrary of your beliefs. Argue on behalf of me for example. You may get a nasty surprise. What’s that, you do not want to. Why not? Are you scared? Do you already know, but do not admit it even to yourself because of what?
Left way behind a long time ago is the option of meaningful dialogue based on rational intelligence and common sense. In short these people are nuts, they are violent, and they are on a one way mission. They have also created carnage and casualty along the way. The good intentions that pave the way is based on a dream of Osho as a world pervasive religion that crushes all other current religions, especially Christianity. Indeed the grandeur and the splendour, and the vested interests. How far would you go for that? How far have you already gone?
Well, Swami Det, I can appreciate what you are saying, but for me non-seriousness is a core element of what Osho’s teaching is about and there is nothing superficial about it. I’ve never felt comfortable around people who take themselves or life too seriously. Give me laughter and happy people to hang out with any day of the week. For me, it is as simple as that.
Just to clear up some things…. first, Sw. abhay, Hami Om, and Swami Dickhead Detective are all one in the same…. So avoid this schizophrenic at all costs, if you want to retain some sort of sanity. Sw. Mumbles… i wonder if shantam, when the chips are down, falls back on one of his alias’(Sw. Detective)by continuing to bless us with his neurotic/psychotic rantings. I wonder…. Insane Sannyasins exposed.
Sw. Dick-tective: How long did it take for you to think this shit up? Over the course of the year or did you touch a live wire somewhere in your house and it shorted out you own wiring causing an immediate spillage of toxic mental sewage onto your computer keyboard? You’re a grand example of “mind gone wind”…. nothing to stop your uncontrolled mind except perhaps a lightning bolt to the head. Fighting fire with fire i suppose…. you got balls to comment on writing with real identity. sipping too much of that “holy” resort water…. have a happy insane new year… to all of sw. dick’s personalities(sybil)
Shantam- please answer P.M.’s allegations or find another place to jerk off
Anand….out for a brief stroll on the high seas again— for the new year just jump over board and drown. saves the funeral pyre expenses
First as far as Harri Om’s so-called “Osho movement for democratic change.”, he seems to be utterly ignorant of what Osho has said in connection to democracy. Osho was absolutely and unequivocally opposed to democracy.
Democracy means unlimited majority rule. It means that the majority can vote away the rights of the minority as was done in Greece with Socrates, and the smallest minority is the individual I’ll have you know. What is needed is a system which protects individual rights, not unlimited majority rule, and that system is a republic. (as far as a system of government is concerned of course, private organizations are a different issue entirely.)
First as far as the water pollution issue which Harri Om seems to bring up, the resort in Pune is as far as I know a private, for-profit business, therefore if they provide bad services people will stop coming to the restort giving them a strong incentive to provide quality service or go out of business.
As far as democracy vis-a-vis the inner circle it would be a fatal mistake to elect the inner circle members through majoriy vote since essentially the most ignorant would be deciding who is competent to manage Oshos work. I think that Osho’s current method for how things should be run is the correct one and I am confident in Oshos judgement. From what I know the inner circle seems to be doing a good job of managing things although I have never personally been to the resort.
“… banned sannyasins get together on a facebook project and claim their freedom back.” Anand. Well, since when did anyone on earth ever lose their freedom? again, 35 years anand has wasted by doing so-called “meditations”. I’ve got some cement overshoes for sale…. free for you anand. btw, the resort, and the sannyas community are “small potatoes” in the grand scheme of things. really all much ado about nothing… then, you’re all suffering delusions of grandeur, with roots coming from low self esteem…. if you’re going to play a stupid game- chose “3 card monty” instead, you, MIGHT get lucky.
Shahriar- if osho was so opposed to democracy he wouldn’t have joined the crowd at the ranch… it was a COMMUNE wasn’t it? or supposedly so. Now, mr. shah. grab a dictionary and look up the word…. don’t borrow shantam’s itr’s written in hieroglyphs … you’ll be walking like an egyptian… but backward into neverland.
regarding the water pollution– people won’t stop coming because they’re stupid and superstitious, haven’t you figured that out by now ? just the insanity posted by many should have told you that by now. The Resort is a “Holy” site according to many… they’ll drink mercury or raw sewage if it meant “meditating” on hallowed ground. sheep voluntarily being lead to slaughter. I apologize to all sheep on this earth…. sheep were born that way, but…. humans… who knows?
with the reappearance of Hari Om/ abhay/sw. Dick-tective and anand, the hacking of SN and the disappearance of frank-n’ furter. there’s going be trouble brewing… for these two-Hari and Anand) are the prophets of doom, sowing the seeds for the end of the world(2012 mayan calendar) and shantam will be their leader….. end of days
i need help for tonight– i’m hauling a lot booze to a party and i need help— can only pay with liquor and drugs…. anybody?
The year has ended in many parts of the world.
It will be a incomeplete journey not to mention the parasites from the Indian side, who have eaten the essence of Osho´s teachings once the master DIED.
They are Osho Parasites…
The blood related group of Jaina clan.
Jayesh Amrito from Western side, Osho Shailandra and his wife from the Indian side…
I hope the journey of new man new woman will continue, the seeds of Osho´s sannyas will get to see the sun light.
To reclaim total Osho is a non violent crusade.
“On the circumference people are different, and they should be different, and everybody should maintain his individuality on the circumference. One should never compromise for any reason. Then only can we create a really democratic world. Real democracy means that the mob, the crowd, is no more in control of the individual life.
Democracy is less a political phenomenon than a religious phenomenon; it is far more important than politics. Democracy is a totally new vision of life. It has not yet happened anywhere; it has yet to happen. Democracy means each individual has the right to live according to his light; he should not be prevented. Unless he becomes a disturbance or a nuisance to others he should be allowed every freedom in all the aspects of life.
That’s my vision of a really democratic world. That’s how I would like my sannyasins to function: no interference in anybody’s life. A great respect has to be given to the other.
excerpt from Osho: Ah This! Ch 4, Q 3
So, Sw. Dick- where does it say osho is against democracy? Check your facts from now on before posting…. oops i forgot, your brain was short-circuited for a while…. my apologies.
being curious, again I stumbled up a website run by Andrew Cohen “EnlightenNext” magazine…. an amazing collage of screw balls.. makes Shantam look sane… I found it while reading a post on the Community board section of SN, about the New Years Eve party being held in London…. I noticed Deepak Chopra posting on the magazine site, and just by chance saw Deepak being interviewed on CNN at about 3pm (N.Y. time)today. he was plugging his new book about politics and the world… I had to turn that dope off after a couple of minutes, the man has no fucking clue about anything… another creative tail-chaser!! With swanky eyeglasses!!
Did you read Osho’s comment on democracy -Shantam? “NO interference in anybody’s life”. Now, you on the other hand want to interfere with everybody’s life, who doesn’t adhere to your rules, regulations and wishes!!! You outta be banned!!!
HA, HA, HA, and a Ho, Ho, HO!!! Merry Christmas and a happy new year!!!
So, Swami Dick-tective: time to pack it in and look for other work… if you adhere to Osho’s proclamations…. Do you have the cohones?
Love Plus Meditation
My Beloveds,
Love is another name for life, another name for existence, another name for god. Don’t condemn it, even if it exists on the lowest rung, because through condemnation you will not be able to transform it. Accept it as it is. Try to understand it. In that very understanding love starts changing: it starts going higher than lust. The more understanding grows, the higher love starts soaring. Love moves higher on the wings of understanding, on the wings of awareness, meditation.
Love plus meditation is equal to sannyas. Just make your love more and more meditative, wherever it is, and meditation will take it upwards. Meditation alone is without energy; love alone is without consciousness. They both need a co-operation, a deep co-operation.
Osho
You can betray me; there are people who have done that. You can do any kind of harm imaginable — and people have done that. You can go against me, you can tell lies about me; still I will not be disenchanted, because in the first place I have never expected anything from you.
I DON’T HAVE ANY EXPECTATION, ANY HOPE — I am just so blissful that I cannot contain it; I want to share it unconditionally. It is the conditions which create disappointment.
I have worked with people for years and they have repaid me very well. I TRUST YOU BECAUSE I CANNOT DISTRUST; so there is no burden on you — you can betray me, but you cannot hurt me. I have trusted you, not because of you, but because of me. And I am still there, the same.
To trust a person is possible in two ways: either because of his trustworthiness — then there is danger, there is risk — or because you enjoy trusting. The trustworthiness or unworthiness have no relevance.
Who am I to bother about all this? One day I was not here — the society was there, man was there, existence was there…. One day I will not be here, so just for a few days in between…. And existence has not given me any job that has to be done. Why should I be serious? I am simply playful.
I love to play; I played well. And people were good; as long as they could continue to be with me, they managed and continued — in difficulties, in troubles. When they found it was too much, they went on their own.”
Test
Blah blah blah…
The great thing about being in the commune was, we didn’t have any time to waste chattering away to imaginary people. Osho gave us something to keep us busy (just like Gurdjieff’s famous hole-digging-and-filling), and encouraged us to be present in that doing.
Doing, and being, together with hundreds of other dedicated spirits was a powerful, unforgettable, experience. We may have thought we were busy manifesting a dream, but really what we were offered was an opportunity to witness that commune dream dissolve into illusion. Yes, it was our responsibility; it was our dream. For me, this was a lesson worthy of a master.
I’ll be busy mulling this one over all my life.