Lennon was in love with Osho…

The aniversary of John Lennon’s death was this week. Here are Osho’s reflections on the man. Lennon knew about Osho and according to Sarjano loved him very dearly.

“WE’RE PLAYING THOSE MIND-GAMES TOGETHER PUSHING THE BARRIER, PLANTING SEEDS. PLAYING THE MIND-GUERILLA, CHANTING THE MANTRA ‘PEACE ON EARTH’. WE’VE ALL BEEN PLAYING THOSE MIND-GAMES FOREVER… LOVE IS THE ANSWER, AND YOU KNOW THAT’S FOR SURE. LOVE IS THE FLOWER, YOU GOT TO LET IT GROW. YES IS THE ANSWER, AND YOU KNOW THAT’S FOR SURE. YES IS SURRENDER AND YOU GOT TO LET IT GROW…”
THIS SONG WAS WRITTEN BY JOHN LENNON ABOUT TEN YEARS AGO. NOW HE IS DEAD. LENNON WAS VERY MUCH IN LOVE WITH YOU, EVEN THOUGH HE DECLARED THAT HE WAS NOT READY TO BECOME A DISCIPLE. I CAN FEEL THIS CONNECTION MYSELF. I REALLY WOULD LIKE YOU TO SAY SOMETHING ABOUT HIS DEATH.
Sarjano

WORDS HAVE THEIR OWN MAGIC, and the poets, the singers, live in the magical world of words, not of realities. They are skillful, very skillful and efficient, as far as the delicate, subtle waves of words, imagination, dreams is concerned, but all that they go on doing is utterly unconscious.
John Lennon on the one hand sings:

“LOVE IS THE ANSWER, AND YOU KNOW THAT’S FOR SURE.”

He himself does not know it. He says:

“LOVE IS THE FLOWER, YOU GOT TO LET IT GROW.”

But to know it you have to be absolutely awakened, because love is the ultimate peak of consciousness. The poet can imagine about it, the singer can sing about it, the painter can paint about it, but they have seen only reflections of the moon in the lake; they have not seen the moon itself. And, of course, the moon reflected in the lake is just made of the same stuff as dreams are made of. The poets, the singers, are dreamers, they are not seers. So he says:

“YES IS SURRENDER AND YOU GOT TO LET IT GROW…”
His words sound true, but they are only reflections of the moon in the lake. If you dive in the lake you will not find the moon there. In fact, the moment you jump into the water, the reflection will disappear, will be broken into thousands of pieces. It will spread all over the lake; you will not be able to catch hold of it. The reflection IS beautiful, but one has not to forget that it is only a reflection and it cannot transform your being.

So he sings: “LOVE IS THE ANSWER… LOVE IS THE FLOWER… YES IS THE ANSWER… YES IS SURRENDER… AND YOU KNOW THAT’S FOR SURE” — but he himself is absolutely unaware of it; he has not experienced it. A beautiful man, but still lost in dreams and imagination.

The poet lives unconsciously, the seer livers consciously. Sometimes their words are exactly the same – don’t be deceived by the words. If you really want to know whether those words represent reality or just empty wishes you have to look into the life of the man.
Kahlil Gibran has written tremendously beautiful words. They come so close to Christ, to Zarathustra, to Lao Tzu, to Gautam the Buddha, and there is every possibility many people will think that Kahlil Gibran is enlightened. He may even surpass Lao Tzu and Buddha and Christ as far as expression is concerned; his expression may be far more beautiful because he is a skilled poet, a very skilled painter. He has the sensitiveness to appreciate beauty, but howsoever he is appreciating it is unconscious.
Buddha may not say things so beautifully because he is not a poet in the ordinary sense, but whatsoever he says is the truth. His words may fall short of it… in fact, words always fall short of the truth; they are never adequate enough. So don’t decide by words.
Sarjano, you are deciding by words. That’s why you say:

I CAN FEEL THIS CONNECTION MYSELF.

Sarjano himself has the quality of a poet, has the sensibility of a creative person. That’s why I have given him the name Sarjano; SARJANO means creativity.
But Kahlil Gibran or John Lennon have to be watched to know whether their truths are really truths or only fabrications of dream, fantasy, imagination; whether they have really experienced those things or they are only empty wishes. You have to watch the Buddha….
Buddha is reported to have said: “Don’t be too bothered about what I say, rather look at me, rather watch me, rather feel me. Let the words disappear. Don’t let the words stand between me and you. Experience my silence, feel the energy that surrounds me, resonate with me — only then will you be able to understand what I am saying.”
If you want to understand a Buddha, his words, you have to watch his life.
Buddha has also said, very poignantly: “Don’t follow my words, rather, follow what I am doing, follow what I am being.”
Sarjano, I can see these words are beautiful:
“WE’RE PLAYING THESE MIND-GAMES TOGETHER
PUSHING THE BARRIER, PLANTING SEEDS.”

But there is no need to go on playing them forever. There have been people who stopped all those mind-games, but the only way to stop those mind-games is meditation; there has never been any other way. Meditation means entering into a state of no-mind.
If he was really in love with me, then there was nothing to prevent him from coming here. To be in love with me means to be in love with meditation, but he must have been afraid of meditation. If he said that he was not ready to become a disciple he must have been afraid of meditation, of surrender, of saying yes, of falling in love. Why? — because the poets, the singers, the painters, the sculptors, the musicians, are the most egoistic people in the world. They talk about egolessness, saying yes and surrendering and love, but that is MERE talk.
They are very egoistic people, in fact they far surpass even the politicians and the priests, for the simple reason that they are TALENTED people. The politicians are not talented people — they are third-rate, they belong to the world of the mediocres. But poets, singers, musicians, painters, they are talented people. They really have something which they can brag about — they have got something. Their ego has a solid support. The politician is making his house on shifting sands, but the poet — ANY kind of creative person — is making his ego on solid ground, on rocklike ground. His foundation is concrete; it is not made of just shifting sands. Hence he has every reason to feel egoistic, but then the danger is even far greater: he will be the last person to surrender, and his whole life he will talk about surrender and about egolessness and about love.
Kahlil Gibran talked about love, surrender, saying yes, but his whole life was quarrelsome. The people he loved, he always fought with them. He was talking about compassion, but he was a very angry man. He would go into childish tantrums for small reasons — any excuse would do. He would throw things, he would break things — he would go mad! The people who lived with him were always afraid of him, the women who loved him were continuously in misery.
And this is the man who wrote the great book, THE PROPHET. It stands as one of the ten great books of the whole world and it will remain one of the greatest ever; there is no possibility for somebody to surpass it. And this is coming from a man who was very angry, very violent, very jealous, very egoistic.

Wilhelm Reich has written about how to get rid of jealousy – because jealousy is THE poison for love, it destroys the roots of love. And Wilhelm Reich is one of the greatest creative psychoanalysts after Sigmund Freud. But his wife writes something else — she writes about him: “I have never seen such a jealous person in my life. He was taking all kinds of freedom, he was moving with many women!” — because he was talking about freedom and that relationship should not be any kind of bondage, but about his wife he was very jealous. Almost twenty-four hours a day he was detecting, spying on where she was, with whom she was, what she was doing, was she looking happy with the man. When he went out of the town he would tell his friends to keep watch….
Finally his wife had to divorce him — it was too much of a torture. He was taking every kind of freedom — he was moving with many women — and his wife was not even allowed to have friends, not to mention lovers.
You have to look into the LIFE of the person, because only that is decisive.
Now, Lennon was continuously fighting with his own woman — many times they separated and many times they got together again — and he is talking about mind-games, and he was playing those mind-games himself!
Sarjano, the words are beautiful: LOVE IS THE ANSWER. I also say love is the answer, but I MEAN it! He does not mean it, he is simply saying beautiful words. Beautiful words have their own hypnotic quality. They catch the mind of the singers and the poets and the musicians; they fall in love with beautiful words. He must be in love with the word’love’ — and remember, the word’love’ is not love, the word’God’ is not God, the word’yes’ is not yes.
Yes is a totally different existential experience. To say yes means to drop your ego entirely. Surrender means disappearing into the whole. He was a nice man, but as unconscious, Sarjano, as you are. That’s why you say:

I CAN FEEL THIS CONNECTION MYSELF.

You must be feeling it!
Now the poor man is dead. Somebody played the game — the mind-game — killed him. Many questions have come to me asking that I should say something about his death. To me, birth and death have no significance at all. There are many ways to die, and the best way is to be killed — at least you are not responsible! The worst is to die in your bed and ninety-nine percent of people choose to die in their beds. Beware of the bed, because that is the MOST dangerous place in the world! All the accidents happen there: birth happens there, love happens there, death happens there. If you can simply renounce the bed you are enlightened!
He died a good death — somebody killed him. One has to die anyway; when one HAS to die one should choose a good way. I don’t think he chose it and I don’t think the person who killed him chose it either. People are living — all people are living — in utter unconsciousness.

A patient lying on the operating table started screaming, “I don’t want to be cut open! You’ll kill me! I don’t want to die!”
The surgeon tried to calm the patient.
“Just take it easy, sir,” he said. “Look at my long white beard. I’ve done thousands of operations and nothing has ever gone wrong.”
“Oh, doctor, you’re right! I know I can trust you!” replied the patient.
When the patient awoke after the operation, he looked around and saw the same white beard and said, “Oh, thank you, doctor! You are a saint!”
“It’s okay, son, you don’t have to thank me. I am not your doctor — my name is St. Peter!”

So what can I say about his death? It is perfectly okay! Everything is okay. Just… if he had really come here he would have died a totally different kind of death. He would have died celebrating, he would have died rejoicing. He would have died without any regrets, without any complaints. He would have died in love, in surrender, in yes. That he has missed this time — I hope next time he does not miss it.

Philosophia Ultima, Chapter 10

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339 Responses to Lennon was in love with Osho…

  1. frank says:

    he`s right.
    people who go on about love,compassion,gratefulness,sowing seeds,changing the world,raising consciousness etc etc etc..
    are always the biggest assholes…..

  2. frank says:

    rabbiting on about egolessness,going beyond jealousy,beyond this and that,unconsciousness of others…
    just bigger idiots than average…

  3. Lokesh says:

    Osho is absolutely spot on with his comments about John Lennon and talented artists in general.
    For me John Lennon is a symbol more than anything else. I think his tragic death was an alarming sign of our times. He gave so much joy to the world and in return he was gunned down on his front doorstep by a madman, who did it because he saw it as a fast track to fame. There was nothing romantic about this. Lennon’s murder was a brutal and senseless act. His last words were, ‘Help me.’
    I’ve always been surprised by how much credence is given to pop stars and media stars simply because they are famous, but John Lennon did actually have a lot of good things to say. He was a powerful man and in the public arena he used his power, for the most part, very well.
    In the above Osho says…If you want to understand a Buddha, his words, you have to watch his life. That is for me very good advice and I’ve been following it for quite some time now and it has brought with it some very interesting observations about Osho’s life. I don’t think we need to limit that advice to only buddhas but can include anyone that we meet in life, who, for one reason or another, it is important for us to understand.

  4. shantam says:

    Today is 11 th December.
    This day one soul took birth in the small Hamlet of a remote village in central India, and in his life time had shaken the rigid status quo of religious businesses and practices..
    May be this man from the very young age has see, how the religions are confined to the art of preaching.
    Theory and nothing else.
    This village gentlemen became the darling of the certain disillusioned factions of a prosperous and educated west.
    Because of this, The main seat, where Osho laid down the foundation of a new love and meditation movement will not remember Osho on His birth day..
    May be one or two people will pass by the area, where Osho gave His sermons and will secretly put some flowers, as if the flowers are time bombs, must not be seen by the public or the police..
    There logic, the reason behind this apparent “heartless” act is that up to now, all the movements have gone so much into the games of celebrating this and that day connected with their soul teacher, that the real message simply is forgotten..

    Good intention….

    we all know..the roads to the hell are paved with good intentions.
    The spiritual truth is so abstract that it cannot be squeezed and sold like the orange juice for mass consumption, which this educated and good intentioned Osho clergy wants to do..packed Osho in a Tetra pack..
    If inner truth is like Orange juice, than everybody has to grow his own orange in his own way, with his own timings and crop calender. Even if majority of the truth farmers fail in their first attempt, still it is worth a try..
    If there is no Master..than follow His instructions exactly the way you understand for yourself..But any instructions and set ups form any priest or patriarch..is as good as inviting Parasites for the dinner..

    So Osho..i hope up in the sky..Buddha and Jesus kind of your “Friends and political opponents” will invite you for a candlelight dinner..and will congratulate you for your mission on the earth started on this day of 11th December.

  5. Lokesh says:

    Shantam, it is utter bullshit to say that spiritual truth is abstact. It is not. You speak as if you know what you are talking about but you don’t, and you can do more harm by promoting this kind of pretentious mumbo-jumbo than all of the so-called detractors here of SN put together.

  6. anugrah says:

    lokesh, it is utter bullshit to say what you just said

  7. shantam says:

    If not Abstract than let us say Enigmetic, mysterious, wonderful, theoretical, conecptual, metaphyscial-will the choice of any world, any technique will explain the gestures of the master towards something within or without..

    And the above post of mine is nothing about Truth..but a disicples expressions towards the Master..

    Few people don´t see the finger pointing towards the moon but the dust in the nails…

    Life is like this…

  8. Anand says:

    Shantam we all wish you some sort of awakening experience soon, so your commentaries become more clear. It is too much spiritual mumble bumble or how they call it in Germany ‘Quark’.

    Imagine there is no heaven, imagine there is no sky..
    imagine all the people living for today….

  9. Lokesh says:

    Anugrah, almost anything you say I take with a pinch of salt. Your latest comment included.
    Shantam, all this fog you wander around in proclaiming it to be the truth really has nothing to do with reality. Your latest descriptions about the nature of truth are as misleading as your earlier one. Everything you are saying is a projection of your mind. It is you who is, and I quote: Enigmetic, mysterious, wonderful, theoretical, conecptual, metaphyscial. The truth is simple. The mind can only tell you what is not. If you wish to gain real understanding you will have to move beyond the mind. It is that simple. Osho said it in every book that was published with his name on it but somehow you don’t seemed to have digested that. You are what you think you are not.

  10. Chinmaya says:

    Criticism for the sake of criticism

  11. Lokesh says:

    Who let the sheep out of the paddock?

  12. Swami Gyan Prakash says:

    For ” Indian hearted ” Shantam and his Dream;
    Yes, keep your dream alive, the East is Wise.

    Imagine there’s no heaven
    It’s easy if you try
    No hell below us
    Above us only sky
    Imagine all the people
    Living for today…

    Imagine there’s no countries
    It isn’t hard to do
    Nothing to kill or die for
    And no religion too
    Imagine all the people
    Living life in peace…

    You may say I’m a dreamer
    But I’m not the only one
    I hope someday you’ll join us
    And the world will be as one

    Imagine no possessions
    I wonder if you can
    No need for greed or hunger
    A brotherhood of man
    Imagine all the people
    Sharing all the world…

    You may say I’m a dreamer
    But I’m not the only one
    I hope someday you’ll join us
    And the world will live as one

  13. prem martyn says:

    at least the beatles were/are all vegetarian who didnt go around manipulating corporate beatlism through beatle therapy and having professors of beatledom creating abusive and manipulative group think in beatle wankathons…

    the worst that happened was listening to paul mcartney making his own tunes up with Wings etc… that really amounts to what fatso buddha called suffering..
    however he is a great promoter of animal rights.. for which he will go to heaven…and meet john for the final argument..

    just a thought for osho’s birthday

    beloved master .. are you allowed to wank in heaven.. or are you an abstract now?

  14. frank says:

    imagine there`s no ashram
    its easy if you try
    no resort to ban us
    above us only sky
    imagine all the people
    getting a life..
    yoo-hoo..oo.oo.oo

    imagine no religions
    i wonder if you can
    no need for red or black robes
    or white robe brotherhood of man
    imagine all the religidiots
    having a good laugh
    yoo hoo..

    you may say i`m a fister
    and i`m not the only one
    i hope some day you`ll roll up your sleeves
    and the world we be as one…

  15. Lokesh says:

    Not bad at all, Frank, loved the sitar solo.

  16. Lokesh says:

    Why is it that I am having difficulties imagining John & Yoko with an Osho photo in the kitchen?

  17. frank says:

    thanks for the applause from the cheap seats,lokesh
    and the rest of you can just rattle your malas…..

  18. frank says:

    celebs never went for osho.
    he was way too dodgy.
    or too threatening for their egos.
    depending on your view.
    i subscribe to both.

    he got a few bollywooders
    but for westerners…
    the biggest celeb story in uk was when rd laing lobbed a full bottle of wine thru the london centre (shop-size)window,shouting “orange wankers”..in 85.
    then sat down on the pavement to skin up a joint.
    when the cops arrived,they asked him why he did it,he said
    “religious reasons”

  19. frank says:

    what was really amazing about that story was that the wine bottle was full,and ronnie laing being a scotsman….!

  20. prem bubbie says:

    Nicely done, frankie….

  21. prem bubbie says:

    regarding osho’s discourse about john lennon or is it “lemon”, for a guy to make those statements and turn around and live the “isolated” life he did, along with the huffing of nitrous and giving more than a wink and a nod to more than questionable activities that he personally benefited from, shows how dumb we are/were to even participate in his charade. Yes, charade, read the above lecture again, then remember all of the bullshit that happened and maybe, if you have the balls, you can the see the idiocy of the whole game….. Again to say, Just because it’s osho, or some “enlightened” joker doesn’t mean he’s playing with a full deck and needs a good zen stick to the head… too bad no one had the balls back then to do it, yours truly included…. Happy B’day… Bhagwan my bubbie…. P.S. Has anyone seen St. Nick? or Mr. Brian Rajneesh- both interchangeable

  22. prem bubbie says:

    Lokesh- i believe johnny boy and yoko would have been embarrassed if some of their friends started to ask questions about the picture … they were of course more concerned about self-image and record sales… they didn’t want to stir up any trouble or be criticized for idolizing anyone other than jesus… remember the b.s. about the lennon statement about how much more popular the beatles were than jesus? Particularly in this country… too many records were smashed and they lost lots of fans because of it…. most guys who get into a rock n’ roll band do it to get fame, money and LAID!!! the beatles were no exception… hanging a pic of osho on a wall, for lennon would have been a potential disaster, and probably answers the question of why didn’t he become a sannyasin if he supposedly loved osho so much… can’t risk record sales or have his “image” questioned… too high of a price… vanity lives!!!!

  23. prem martyn says:

    yes rd laing… i wasnt there….i heard about it..

    met his daughter once who was going to buy a boat off of jenny james the atlantis commune primal screamer…and sail away from her dad to south america.. apparently they didnt get on very well then…

    what was that about observing someone to know who they are? well it looks like his life was a bit knotted too….

    i actually didnt know who she was.. so i gave her a spiel about living in a house full of people who shared their feelings.. as she was looking to move in…….she didnt let on who she was….. and i felt so stupid when i later found out ….as if i needed to protect this young kid from a house of osho loonies…she knew the game before i even spoke..

    not a big story.. just a small world…

    frank are you a 17th century satirist reborn.. Pope or Swift ?
    from Swifts ,Battle of the Books
    ….In one sense, the “Battle of the Books” illustrates one of the great themes that Swift would explore .One of the attacks in the Tale was on those who believe that being readers of works makes them the equals of the creators of works. The other satire Swift affixed to the Tale, “The Mechanical Operation of the Spirit,….

  24. prem bubbie says:

    Terence Stamp was probably the biggest named actor to join up, then he quit siting one of the reasons as – not being able to go to a pub and have a beer, like an ordinary fellow– he claimed to feel awkward, too much being made of a famous actor being a sannyasin. I think a sannyasin insider wrote about somewhere….

  25. prem bubbie says:

    “the best things in life are free, but you can give them to the birds and bees…. that’s what i want – money, that’s what i want”

  26. prem bubbie says:

    “Take the KASH- take the K.A.S.H., take the kash, take the K.A..S.H.– and let’s see the color of the money”. trivia quiz- who wrote this song? the winner will receive a free legal consultation, services donated by Shantam.– good luck

  27. bob says:

    Swami Sarjano says:

    LENNON WAS VERY MUCH IN LOVE WITH YOU, EVEN THOUGH HE DECLARED THAT HE WAS NOT READY TO BECOME A DISCIPLE….

    any source for this Sarjano? reading a lot of bio material on lennon and the beatles a few months ago, i didn’t come across any references to any connection to Osho at all. lennon’s reading books, doing meditations, visiting centers, making comments about Osho, etc.

    Nothing.

    unless there’s some verifiable info out there, it appears to be just a sannyasin tactic of unsubstantiated celeb name-dropping to puff up the image of the sannyas movement, connecting it to the interests of a famous person.

    if i’m in the dark here, please let me know. As Osho points out, Sarjano himself is the type that might lean towards these “Imagine” colored psychological tendencies. An “artistic” type.

  28. frank says:

    re. swifts satire on the readers of works who think they are equals to the creators of those works.

    thats what happens to these guys who listen to,and quote osho all the time…

    they will attack others for coming from “the mind” or *acting from the ego”..
    forgetting that,as unenlightened folk,according to the enlightened guys that they are parroting,that is all they are capable of doing…

    this is what some psychologists will refer to as “inflation”
    that is,the ego,the identity gets identified with the greater force,the god force,enlightened energy or whatyoucallit,and becomes blown up,like a balloon.
    the only prob.
    what goes up,must come down……
    so they must struggle to keep the come-down away at all costs…
    “meditation” becomes a desperate effort to keep the inflation going…
    also neccesary to project outwards and fight with dark-energies of ego,unconsciousness,”ex-sannyasins”,baboons,fisters,imagined cia agents etc…

    imv, a lot of people in this scene have to declare themselves enlightened as it is the only way to get out of the double-bind…..

    the others are just stuck,in a kind of purgatory.

    he`s a real nowhere man
    living in his nowhere land…..

  29. bob says:

    nice post frank on the ego and Greater Force phenomenon. i’ll have to read it again.

  30. prem martyn says:

    http://www.youtube.com/user/reelingintheyears69#p/u/5/kSVv92Dnl-o

    i dont know about sarjano but here’s louis theroux meeting italian chidvilas..not italian sarjano.. but hey .. who-a cares-a about-a name-a

    .. more on terence stamp later…

  31. prem bubbie says:

    “… creators of those works”. well no matter if you create it or commenting on the creator(s), it’s all “playing those mind games” regardless of which side of the ocean you stand. Dive in , baby!!!

  32. prem bubbie says:

    “Don’t just say it, spray it”!!

  33. frank says:

    great clip martyn.
    the last of the goa-hicans!

    there`s not many of them left.
    its mostly full english breakfast and beer boys from birmingham these days…….

  34. frank says:

    did you see the other parts of the programme?
    the psycho american ammaniac…
    scary…
    there`s exhibit A of a psycho-inflation for you…..

  35. prem martyn says:

    frank …yes i originally saw all the horror on the original telly screening.. i watched from behind the sofa.. like the first time i saw the daleks…

  36. prem martyn says:

    bubbie you’re a riot….
    but i’m sorry (english style) im afraid i’m going to have to arrest youin the name of her majesty for disturbing the pisse

  37. Lokesh says:

    ‘Enlightenment is expensive.’ Well I guess that means you can count me out.

  38. prem martyn says:

    film buffs note: last of the mohicans… another favourite with music by Sainte Colombe of course scoring the final scene, his heroic ‘Improvisation sur les folies’ ..and which classic film on his life the ‘tous les matins du monde’ starring depardieu is a tour de force..

    but not if you dont like 18th century music

    more on terence stamp later…

  39. prem bubbie says:

    ” those you can’t do- teach; those who can’t teach- become gurus”. from : Matthew, Mark, Luke and John: Chapter 1, verse 1.

  40. prem bubbie says:

    “Those who can’t become gurus- post on sites like these and give advice.”

  41. Lokesh says:

    Awww, now I get it!

  42. Chinmaya says:

    A blind pulls the other blind always

  43. prem martyn says:

    sorry i thought we were discussing the enlightenment you know voltaire rousseau, pascal, hume…sorry i’ll change the soundtrack then…

    but an 18th century coffee house to discuss ideas could be a great money spinner.. trouble is.. we’d have to have something to discuss.. and wear fancy clothes…and wigs… and practise the arts of wooinge and complementinge in case any trucky maidens would foollifhly rifk their honour in the companye of such blaggardef and rapfcallionf.

    and nobody could use the letter s….

  44. frank says:

    first we`ve got swami fagash ranting about fisting…
    now chinmaya has got his chin stuck firmly in the mire,and iis going on about blind people pulling each other off…
    i`m disgusted..
    i thought indians were only concerned with higher matters….
    seems all these guys wanna do is cadge a ride to khajaraho….

    at least jesus only stole donkeys..
    these guys are shaggin` `em too…..

  45. frank says:

    i heard some sannyasins in india have trained a donkey to bray
    eey-or o-sho ee-yore o-sho….
    they`ve stuck a teacosy on its head and are looking at hitting the bigtime…

  46. prem martyn says:

    i realise the consternation i caused recently.. sorry but i was using an old typewriter from 1723.. when you read fisting its actually sifting…
    you see i’m baking a cake for osho’s birthday and i was ‘sifting’ ingredients

    1 pounde of verbiage roughleyye choppedde
    half an empty egg headde
    two large dishspoons of ambition ( collusion will do)
    a large wish fulfillingge whisk for frothingge
    a pair of fresh blindlfolds into the mixture
    some hand maidens with fair features
    a fresh batch of improbables and unlikelies from the garden
    a pinch of someone elses beloveded
    some argumentation to season
    and a large following of hogwash

    bake in the oven and serve up whenever saving humanity or other festivitieysse.

  47. frank says:

    tasty..
    a bit of mixed peel and mixed metaphor,too…
    and sickly sweet icing on the top.
    love
    from beloved frank

  48. prem martyn says:

    ps osho loved the donkey photos from other thread… he’s considering having a whole temple built with his face in sex different positions on the outside… and inside empty space.. just so we get over the idea of knowing what osho represents…and are able to focus on the real things in life…in the space inside…

    things like
    each other

    how do i know? i read his books and can quote him.and revere his name in holiness.

  49. prem martyn says:

    in sex or seven… ;)

  50. Lokesh says:

    If six was nine.

  51. prem bubbie says:

    “Don’t you have homes?!”- Caddyshack 1980

  52. shantam says:

    The mind can only tell you what is not. If you wish to gain real understanding you will have to move beyond the mind. It is that simple. Osho said it in every book that was published with his name on it but somehow you don’t seemed to have digested that. You are what you think you are not…

    Lokesh, you and because of your patriachal nature, few in your circle may also think of your beyond the mind wisdom; and it is nothing extra ordinary, nine out of ten Osho sannyasins think in the same way..and in this way prove to be the jokers, who cannot be taken for humour nor for seriousness..

    Even if we go beyond the mind..but once we are here on the earth or communicating with earthly people, we have no other way than to bring our mind IN.

    So even if few great names have lived and experienced the No Mind or beyond Mind spcae, their expressions are as vivid and different as thier mind and its cultivation.
    Problem with few Idiots in the world of osho is they are unable to distinguish between Osho and Raman, OSho And J Krishnamurti..

    It is like some truck driver presents the bra of his small breasted wife to his big breasted Mistress..

    We take so much care to know the size of our shoes, but on the inner world..we can wear any shoes with any number; just because Advertisement is alluring..

    No wonder…During the day of Osho’s birthday, people were discussing Beattles death..some musician…almost like Jesus christ!

  53. shantam says:

    bob // Dec 11, 2010 at 9:35 pm

    Real and to the point criticism .
    It also shows how Osho became the captive of His disciples boasting.
    That is the problem with the Masters who live too long among the disciples. Slowly slowly, Master becmomes the hanger and most probably start enjoying the attention too.

    I think Lucky man in our time was Shri Punja ji, put on the international scene at the ripe old age, enjoyed his 15 minutes of fame as a tonic for few years..and good bye..
    Just imagine he and His lucknow on the scene for two decades or more…
    But one can also imagine..The muslim half brother of 2nd to the throne in Britain…
    sometime..big moments in history die too soon.

  54. shantam says:

    Liz Hurley: Exit Arun Nayar, Enter Shane Warne?
    http://movies.ndtv.com/movie_story.aspx?section=Movies&Id=ENTEN20100163058&keyword=hollywood&subcatg=MOVIESWORLD&nid=72241

    Most probably, no Mind space is like the breasts around women’s body. Every woman has them but very few can encash them as UK’s export to the world Liz Hurley..

    Mind seems to be like the fashion designer, if you have it..how to present in the most attractive form. No wonder, a little bit of textile stuff can turn an economy class into Business class.

  55. Lokesh says:

    Shantam, you are quoting me out of context and what is missing in the context is this: Everything you are saying is a projection of your mind.
    And that has not changed, going by your latest post.
    You say: we have no other way than to bring our mind IN. I do not agree with that. Ever heard of silence? Perhaps not, because people tend to keep quiet about it.
    You’ve spoken about Poonjaji before, Shantam, from a standpoint of ignorance in the sense that you did not meet the man, yet you have strong opinions about him.
    There is no need to draw comparisons between him and Osho but you are doing that out of your simplistic need to feel your guru is the most enlightened, or some such shite.
    There have been many enlightened teachers living in this world. Not all of them had a mission of becoming a player on the world stage. Poonjaji had no need to have a huge community develop around him. In fact, he discouraged people from hanging around him for too long…even going so far as to say, ‘Whenever you see a crowd around a teacher beware.’
    Your sarcastic and conceited comment, ‘enjoyed his 15 minutes of fame as a tonic for few years..and good bye.’ Says much about your small-minded attitude.
    How I saw it was like this. It was beautiful to see a man whose life made sense. An old man who was honoured to have people come from all over the world to drink from his cup. A man who had no need for the trappings of wealth that fame can bring.
    There is no need to try and imagine how the scene would have looked in Lucknow after two decades because it would never have happened. Poojaji was a global traveller, who only stayed in Lucknow because his age dictated it. Had he been fit, he would have been up and disappeared down the road like a white cloud.

    The great path has no gates,
    Thousands of roads enter it.
    When you pass through the gateless gate
    You walk the universe alone.
    Mumon.

    Your problem is, Shantam, that instead of passing through that gateless gate you have become attached to it and hence stuck. How tiring, I can only presume, to have to hulk around such a huge piece of baggage.

  56. shantam says:

    You’ve spoken about Poonjaji before, Shantam, from a standpoint of ignorance in the sense that you did not meet the man, yet you have strong opinions about him.

    Now you are coming to the point Lokesh.
    How you can speak about the whole movie when you leave it hall during interwell.

    I had not been with Punja ji neither wished to be..My comments about him is in the regard, when people impose someone’s idea on someone else.

    Osho had the vision and the ambition to see his style of spirituality as global brand..He worked hard for it and thousands of people poured their time, money and life into it..
    So simple is that..

    My point of concern it to look into the aspects of its shrinking impact and how the internal organs have played havoc to bring the sincere and honest effort into its knees.

    Silence..and No mind..and beyond mind is too private a matter..
    to discuss such things simply show the lack of intelligence..but yes..the people wo think they have tasted these things..must show them through their daily life.

    A warrior will not walk with the guns all the time. May be he will not be able to stop the crime commited before him..but atleast he must dare to tell the truth as far as eye witness account is concerned….

  57. shantam says:

    I have submitted a rough draft of an article regarding the contemprary meaning of two famous buddihist terms..Mahayana and Hinyana..

    Big plane, vessel or ships or another mean of transport is Mahayana..same way there are small means of transportaions..Ricksahws, cycles, small boats etc..in term Hinyana…

    Osho has spoken intensively on these two words..

    In our times it is like small corner shop owners and customers look with disbain towards the managers and customers of super markets.

    As every child in the school knows and writes the essay too as every branch of human endeveour has advantage and disadvantage both.

    when i read the comments of my fellow collegaues here, most of them are so fond of their colored glasses that they are unable to comprehend that some other colors have also the right to exist.

    The small animals with big jaws are these Bubbies of sannyas news…
    And jaws soo BIG that only a quarter of a white bread is enough to satisfy days long hunger…

  58. shantam says:

    Newspapers are full with the reports, Married Liz Hurley caught kissing Shane warne. Glamour meets Cricket and sparks flow.
    Because of Indian connection, Arun Nayyer being the luckist Indian to have the privelege of being married to the most admired boobs in the world, Indian media is full too with this news.
    Once Imran khan Jammima Khan were the NEws…

    In almost all such cases, it is the western partner ditching the Indian counterparts..
    They will change their names and custumes, just like Sannyas..but every season has its ending…

    There is nothing wrong with this. Change is better than the stuckness..

    Question is in this changing world, where relations are made and droped as the empty can of Coke…why not to appreciate Osho’s contribution that HE tried his level best to give spiritual direction to this energy of sepration, pain, jealusy, anger and rage….

    For example, MArtyn’s girl friend in 1970′s was in any way being seduced by some other on other time..why to blame Osho’s school for that.
    Does such things have not happened again and again, as it is almost an every day event in all the neighbourhood…

    i am utterly thankful that Osho’s enviornment gave this opportunity to look into the fragileness of human emotions.. To see the photos of one’s partner being kissed by a new lover is not that painful as to see them LIVE walking hands in hands going for Osho’s discourse..or sharing the tender movement afterwards..
    what you can do is to walk with batch of IN Silence..
    and get reborn out of this pain and utter loneliness..

    Osho is the Master…for this reason..master of the masters..

  59. prem martyn says:

    Since I posted my comments here yesterday, I have started to get a torrent of threatening emails…here are some of the threats which I am taking seriously, and unjokingly..
    .
    ‘ Keep your face out of my Guru’s arse’

    ‘If you dont wanna wind up in the waiting room of Vajramuni’s seven headed demon hell then start chanting, swami.’

    If I wasnt so silent, I’d ignore you.

    I’m gonna take your ego and attack it with the language of half baked ideas.

    I’m watching your thoughts and I’m gonna make you disappear in the ocean of silence , if you know what’s good for you.

    Carry on , swami, with your behaviour and I’ll get my donkey onto you.

    ‘Oh I didnt realise she was yours, come back in half an hour.’

    I dont want to hurt your feelings but have you read the approved guide to sannyas behaviour ; ‘Mala Available’.

    and the most menacing…
    ‘ Why dont you come round for a beer sometime to discuss the new supertantra group , we pay local rates.Love… from the Path of Power.

    I have passed these and others onto the Police to arrest someone’s spiritual development with. ( I will not be intimidated, unless of course i’m paying a group leader for the privilege over a long weekend with complete strangers whom i have to trust , otherwise the group wont work.)

  60. prem martyn says:

    shantam and the voice of osho you think you represent in his absence…it wasnt the 1970′s..the power trippy sex interference was constantly around me and my friends, until recently. And i left any direct supportive involvement.. around 2003… there’s no chance I would ever take a woman into or from an osho commune again…not because of the sex.as i’ve said before as im in favour of all negotiated possibilities. but because of the abuse of hierachical psycho power.. which isn’t…and im not fed up, no….. i got bored… it was always me having to say the uncomfortable stuff..and the models available were so predictable i felt sorry for the new comers..

    Girls are not seduced.. they take advantage of whats on offer. Girls have grown up…
    Osho’s world and the myriad of interpretive slants available on long residentials give you hope mixed with apparent ideological interpersonal responsibility as part of a package. ie Changeable Feelings…imposed from chaotic interference.

    That hadnt changed up until 2006.. i have names and events from the dark side.. and will not be releasing them.. anytime soon

    I’m here warning intelligent people you have already got all you need.And what you’ve got will be taken from you if you cant fight back, dirty.
    Sad but true…Ask friends here and elsewhere.

    As you dont take risks .. you and others wont have a clue what i’m talking about…..and if you have a vested interest .. you’ll do all you can to shut me up….

  61. shantam says:

    Both of the above mails, makes sense, Martyn
    Without abusive outbrusts, one can also make the point clear.

    On a raw level, Osho has left much of the stuff to be purified. Some where “reosrt” management of Jayesh Amrito has done good job, as the excess of the old times is very much contained, atleast dirt has gone under the carpet.

    There is no doubt that this place has much more to offer on meditation level than before…But meditation is not such a thing, people will travel continents to do dynamic or Vipassana..

    In an average perfect world, it would have been the right moment to involve the participants of last 35 years and ask their contribution and sincere opinion.
    But this is not the case..

    somewhere this is my appreciation for sannyas news contributors. Martyn or Lokesh, Frank or Bob or the indian gang, atleast on the thoughts and feelings level we are sharing the limiations and possibilites, If the dark clouds have silver lining..soft white sheets also contain the dark spots too…

    Honest observation and implimentation is lacking on the management level and from the people who have sold their groups..

  62. Lokesh says:

    Reading your latest comments, Shantam, I’m reminded of a saying my mother used to use when teaching me the facts of life: ‘Empty barrels make the most noise.’

  63. prem martyn says:

    well shantam… you know the egalitarian abuse is also welcome so please feel free to cathart.. dirt is/was osho’s gold.. everyone else takes that liberty.. from devageet onwards.through the centres…. as i mentioned before..not just cathartic though, but heavy duty.. i’m lighter than that…much.

    and yes black clouds were at times fun… but at some cost… i know people ..others .. not me .. who also lost large amounts of money in their devotion.. so yes for bohemians its all par for the course… but thats not to be used by the manipulative ‘pleb’s for their own egos… and i accept your equanimous almost soothing generalised points.. but i’ve also said its not abstract…
    the decision comes to really live non-dependently outside the routines of so called meditators, when, what you put in is more than what you get out… one to one ,person to person…
    ,
    the rest of the metaphysics i usually deal with in the bath with a nice hot soak of my mortality that perceives the heartful infinite bliss…
    and the sound of that discovery is
    ahhhhhhhhhh

    i’m glad i have the chance here to vindicate my position,it feels like a voice i would have liked to hear more of…and its great fun too …really sharpens my preference for comedy over growth.satire over social sobriety-

    thanks

  64. frank says:

    master-disciple is a top-down pyramidical structure..
    authoritarian,coming from and retaining the basic features of feudalism…
    psychiatry,and all the resulting psychotherapies have a history which is frightenly authoritarian,very far from egalitarian…
    try jeffrey masson`s “against therapy” for a history…

    of a hybrid of these two backgrounds,what would one expect.?
    that`s right,a materially,psychologically and spiritually autocratic and authoritarian beast…

    which of the modern forms of organised sannyas are not in this model…?

  65. frank says:

    if you want to make this enlightenment/master set up democratic,it is like wanting to build a pyramid which is the same width at the top as at the bottom……

  66. frank says:

    or a donkey with a head at both ends….
    that was a pushmepullyou wasnt it…?
    no wonder the clowns who propose these kind of ideas sound like dont know whether they are coming or going….
    and they better keep away from khajuraho,as well….

  67. prem martyn says:

    its a very good point and worth anlysing in depth even if only on reflection..

    i’m having din dins now so i’ll have to ge back to you on that..

  68. Greetings to all travelllers of this path or any other! In the path of love doing is not needed!
    Thank U to all that ,and in particular the ones that we shared an enquiry and have helped me to grow and in particular bro Roy Castle that had the same experience and shoed Us that it also ,cancer that is, can be a gift from existence,Osho!
    See you in the other shore ,or future evolutions as Osho wills it!
    Lord make your Will be mine!
    Lots of love,
    amrit(Dolfo)

  69. prem bubbie says:

    Shantam, thanks for NOT including me on your list of admired SN contributors… It’s the best Xmas present anyone has given me in a long time… for those admired SN contributors, If I were you, I’d hire a mafia thug to send Shantam a message…. With admirers like him who needs detractors.

  70. prem bubbie says:

    I wonder why these “masters” tell people to “lose the mind”, “to be still and know”, same with politics, gossip etc. that it’s all a distraction.. Yet…. osho was knee deep in that stuff… What is it… you have to become enlightened first , before you can get involved with politics, into playing head games, gossip? Why should all the enlightened people have all the fun?

  71. prem bubbie says:

    maybe it just “Monkey See, Monkey Do”.

  72. Lokesh says:

    I don’t think it is a case of losing your mind, Bubbie, which is an expression for losing your marbles, which in turn is a drag because you need your marbles for playing with. It is more about seeing that you are not the mind, which is apparently who most people think they are.
    I don’t think enlightened people have all the fun. In fact I was just reading an enlightened mans comments about life’s horror. I know you are fooling around, but getting busted out of ego game reality is no joke and I’ve seen tough nuts quite literally shit themselves when it happens. So keep some toilet paper handy….just in case.

  73. prem martyn says:

    while you’re waiting..

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00548hr

    Psychoanalysis and Democracy

    To what extent does psychoanalysis function by the rules of a dictatorship and to what extent does it function like a democracy? Is there a part of us that craves dictatorship and, if so, why? Is there a war going on in our own minds between ideas that we allow in to our consciousness and other ideas that we repress?

    :)

  74. prem martyn says:

    frank.. i wiki’d masson and see he comes from a grand old pedigree of grand old pedigrees..mysticism, kabbalism, sanskrit anti-freudian psychologist rebel vegan, thanks for that… i’m not sure i can fit it all in before the new year.. still too much of the ye olde puddingge i made earlier…

  75. prem bubbie says:

    Talking about “losing one’s marbles”, Loko(lokesh), my marbles fall out just about everyday , but i manage somehow to pick them right back up– that is, until bed time. Now, seriously!! I didn’t mean– “To lose one’s mind”… but it’s clear to me osho, was neck deep in the politics of pune and the ranch… yet he repeatedly said to all, to avoid those trappings… which leads me to believe, until you become “enlightened”, these things are an obstruction,and when you do achieve enlightenment, the whole physical and mental rubbish of the world is a big fuckin’ joke, so what does it matter anyway… and for your information, Prakash shares his diapers with me, it’s tough with the economy being in shambles and all.. gotta save money whenever i can.

  76. prem bubbie says:

    P.M. Why are you a vegetarian?

  77. prem bubbie says:

    P.M. regarding the need for dictatorship… It’s called “low self-esteem”… since we are pack animals and thereby only a few are top-dog, the rest vie for the top dogs’ attention and acceptance. those minions, the pee-on’s either look to the dominant few as “special” people with “special” powers or gifts. Something they don’t have and feel the need to follow them, and be subjugated by them. Not to dissimilar to the way a dog obeys and follows it’s human master. The human provides the food and shelter, with an occasional pat on the head and a bath.. Now, for the dog, that’s practically being catered to and not having to do any work for a meal. P.M. if you don’t believe that humans are indeed pack animals or animals either way, never mind…. I had an intense debate with a “born again” Pentecostal Christian many years ago, he simply refused to acknowledge that humans were animals at all….next basket case….. So why do people still have monarchs?

  78. prem martyn says:

    vegetarian.. why…?
    as john Mcenroe said.. you cannot be serious..
    or…. i cannot eat other vegetarians… we tend to stick together… as a pack…its a survival mechanism

    or

    i’m a great fan of the 12 century troubadour Cathars.. vegetarian, love sonnets and loads of good noble sex ….. but not necessarily in that order

    as far as your survival pack thing goes.. im working with the encyclopedia britannica for a complete understanding of your question… rationality may have stopped for you bubby… but time still moves on… just a minute.. that might be the answer…..

    i can however answer the monarchs question fully….

    so as to make programmes like this….


    The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

    apparently our charles was ‘beaming’ at the protestors even trying to engage them in conversation through the car window.
    (that might be palace spin though)

  79. shantam says:

    frank // Dec 13, 2010 at 7:02 pm
    if you want to make this enlightenment/master set up democratic,it is like wanting to build a pyramid which is the same width at the top as at the bottom……

    Master disciple set up cannot be democrated as their is inbuilt assumption that disciples have to travel to make their pyramid, to be the peak of the pyramid is a Pilgrimage….

    So Master will be like a Monarch..it is the freedom of the seeker where he wants to get involved with.
    As a poetry it is fine to say Master choses the disciples when the time is ripe. ..but it is not worth than to say, Shoes chose the buyer, they stay in the window…like a master, customer comes to them, tries them, leaves them or pays the price to have them..

    But the system after Master’s departure can only work democratcially, by the parliament chosen by the disciples….The way Inner circle was created by Osho, first members are chosen by the master on behalf of the disciples.

    Other possibilty, which most of the sects in India follow is that Master choses a successor, in this way, continuity of the chain is maintained also the protocol..

    Few ambitious disciples will not agree with the choice, they will leave the game, rest will continue..

    What has happened after Osho’s departure is a proof that pyramid of wisdom was built with the Logo chips…disciples have learnt so many songs and techniques to melt the ego but in reality..they have not even opened the match box…

  80. shantam says:

    when i look at the last 30 years, it seems J Krishnamurti, UG or Punji ji’s model has more courage and authenticity, than Osho’s rare experiment to create Sannyas as necessary evil…

    But on the other side, one can see how south India has produced one after another Hindu sects, once the giants of south India, J and UG left the earth..
    without the base of an orgnisation, the teachings could not penetrate the bottom of the society, only few elites could benefit..

    Osho’s aproach was more pragmatic, it has shown much trust in human rebelliousness and intelligence…

  81. shantam says:

    My simple observation which fits with the silent voice of sannyas community is..as long as two three people have the complete control over OSHO Pune..The work will stay alive as BONSAI…

    If it has the involvement of all His sannyasins on emotional level..world will get enriched..and it can inspire other groups too..

  82. shantam says:

    The Boss at Pune has taken enough effort to create Pyramid..with cement, steel, bricks and sand..and lots of money as a gluing force..

    But the energetic pyramid is created by the involvement of people’s energy..

    Without the collective endeveour, sannyasins are looking like stuck cars in the winter storm, Punctured yet expansive bicycles around the railway stations…….

  83. shantam says:

    which leads me to believe, until you become “enlightened”, these things are an obstruction,and when you do achieve enlightenment, the whole physical and mental rubbish of the world is a big fuckin’ joke, so what does it matter anyway……

    Achieve Enlightenment or PRETEND..

    And wonder is every enlightend beings think, the competetor is still not to the mark..

    Seems like Oratory, ambition and raw Chrishma…plays the biggest role in the cut throat world of influencing the others with enlightenment..

    The best example which comes in brain is
    DERA SACHHA SODA…

    I think the man has below average IQ yet..million plus people are willing to die for him. For them, He is the most amazing and compassionate master ever born, the man who is jesus, Mohammad, Buddha, Nanak..all roll in one…

  84. prem martyn says:

    so
    make mistakes..
    there are no rules

    or dont make them
    there are

    learn from them

    or repeat them for entertainment

    useful tips from my forthcoming…
    little book of wisdom…

    some people have no mind .. but run if they have no heart…

    useful tips volume 2

    if you see a pyramid.. ring once or toot and come in.

  85. Satya Deva says:

    Btw, thanks to Martyn for alerting me/us to the youtube clips of Louis Theroux meeting Indian gurus – most entertaining!

    Enjoyed this one today, his encounter with Amma…Seems to have – no doubt very temporarily – ‘blown his little mind’…


    The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

  86. prem martyn says:

    i remember that our parents generation were embarassed by things they’d rather not want people to know..
    .
    my my havent times changed..

    yes i saw it on telly.. one thing that stopped me eating in hare krishna veggy curry house.in oxford street years ago.. was the anemic devotees….

    where there are babes, thither shall i prostrate myself…vedic hymn…

  87. Lokesh says:

    The greatest man is nobody. Chuang Tzu

  88. prem martyn says:

    i love beautiful women, i’m not a saint… Silvio Berlusconi

  89. shantam says:

    The Greatest man is nobody but powerful men are many….
    One of the most corrupt chief Minister from the state of Karnatka, went to Satya Sai Baba, the other week.
    And amazingily enough..something happened in the last minutes that the protests stoped asking for his resignation…

    The stone crushers, road makers, Rickshaw pullers may not have any Guru, living guru…but every corrupt politician, burocrate, police officer cannot sustain oneself without the blessings of their powerful gurus.

    even in the ashram, sannyasins will say very proudly, there is no god. one sip of coffee..and again..God was not even born..proud posture…
    and if some one tells that person, ” The other day Jayesh was speaking with Dhyanesh about you”, the No God man will get twenty different colors on his face, am i going to be banned from the resort?
    For what??
    never used the word ashram in public and still…??

  90. shantam says:

    Martyn..tell me a single psycho religious gathering Other than Osho’s where you could meet beautiful women?
    Hare Krishna, Sai baba, Amma, ravi shankar, Sri Bhagwan, Jehovwah… where ..

    Where there is a fire..and fireworks…few fingers get burn too, few faces will need plastic surgery from the burn wounds..

  91. prem martyn says:

    i never criticised osho for the beautiful women..best shagtastic women ever…..

    trouble is who wants to fall in love with a woman who says three different things in five minutes.. its like being with an alcoholic….

    so it was with girls who kept doing growth… in the end unless you found an intelligent one who was also honest and tender .. all you were left with is silence… and you cant shag that alone….no matter what king khan said…
    its better to take personal control than to have someone else tell you its for your own good…

    i mean on that level Osho maybe wanted the best of both worlds.. freedom and responsibility.. but what he got was freedom and license… unless one was naturally ugly in which case feeling blissed out was perfect alternative..

    the details shantam are everything… and i learnt that sannyassins are extremely naive having bought ready made formulas..like ‘going in’ that was a panacea from headaches to power games to dysentery…
    and thats because we werent supposed to think things through.. just express our feelings.. not consequences….less chess more snakes and ladders…

  92. Lokesh says:

    Interesting post, Martyn. I don’t see how you think you can describe all sannyasins as all being extremely naive….that sounds ridiculous. Perhaps you are getting too involved with Shantam and his need for making absurd statements is rubbing off on you. Like….John lenneon loved Osho dearly. what a load of bollocks…and really what difference does it make to anyone if he did or if he didn’t? What is questionable is why someone thinks it necessary to employ such hyperbolic shite.

  93. prem martyn says:

    well i’m a sannyassin.. and i exrapolate outwards….

    :)

  94. prem martyn says:

    i forgot to add… all the time. everywhere….forever…

    anyway…
    when the jesuits landed in china they thought the’d better show off some telescopes and clocks.. to spread the word of god.. like its not really good enough to point to the sky if you want to impress someone and take over their morality and empire….
    and sannyassins in their search of deep space will believe they can change everyone for centuries to come by saying.. time for kundalini and sitting on a mat…and can i impress you with another meditational technique..
    i mean just how many swamis or mas did you ever come across who had done anywhere near the alotted practices and transformed anything more than your surprise into rampant incredulity..

    pass me the N2Ox ..its getting serious….

    :)

  95. prem martyn says:

    i miss kavita…

    life is great..
    :)
    :)

  96. shantam says:

    Shantam and his need for making absurd statements…

    I think, not even three statements of me during 2 years time, will fall in the absurd catagory..

    But yes..there are children like adults too, if they cannot digest something in their brain, it means it is false.

    Ask any five years old, what is two minus eight, and his answer will be..it does not exist. it is false..
    Do you know the answer, Lokesh or two minus eight sounds absurd?

    In the spiritual world..this is the reality with many..What they know..is all what they know and that is truth..

    The other day in the train, One Tamil Jehovvah came to me, ” Are you Indian? do you want to know the truth.?

    I asked, ” great to see one ex.hindu distributing Jehovvah literature.?

    He felt encourgaed,” Look..i found the truth is Bible. You can also find the truth.”

    I said, ” This is great. Enjoy your truth.”
    He insisted to give me the booklet, What is Truth?
    Please take it, i can give you the address in Freiburg. Many Indins visit us. They are happy to find the truth..

    My final answer was, ” I am not interested in “Truth”. But i am happy that you have found the truth. God bless you.”

  97. shantam says:

    i mean on that level Osho maybe wanted the best of both worlds.. freedom and responsibility.. but what he got was freedom and license… unless one was naturally ugly in which case feeling blissed out was perfect alternative..

    the details shantam are everything… and i learnt that sannyassins are extremely naive having bought ready made formulas..like ‘going in’ that was a panacea from headaches to power games to dysentery…
    and thats because we werent supposed to think things through.. just express our feelings.. not consequences….less chess more snakes and ladders…Martyn

    I can say, only an insider, who has spend years in sannyas life, can say something like this..No doubt, Martyn has spend years with Osho and His people.
    The Osho movement comprising of best of the both worlds has also to pass through its teething phase.
    Neither Rome nor the sustainable inner solutions are built in a day…
    The time and the money invested by any one was still worth of its investment, in comparision with other school and thoughts. though there are people, who got windfall of “wisdom dividend” by spending a fortnight in Lucknow or few hours to some travelling one woman spiritual kiosk..

  98. frank says:

    “a psycho-religious gathering where you can meet beautiful women…..” ?
    hahaha
    now there`s a interesting description of sannyas….

    you`re right,
    it beats a saibaba wankathon…
    (what a bunch of ravi shankers)
    or kinky night with the ku klux klan…
    hare krishna hare rambone
    doesnt do it for me…
    and i cant see em having a tantric tarts and vicars night at amma`s…

    but i hear,tiruvanamalai is a good place to get laid shantam…
    have you tried that?

  99. Lokesh says:

    Martyn, you ask….i mean just how many swamis or mas did you ever come across who had done anywhere near the alotted practices and transformed anything more than your surprise into rampant incredulity..

    Answer; Quite a few.

  100. Lokesh says:

    Shantam, you say: I think, not even three statements of me during 2 years time, will fall in the absurd catagory..

    This statement in itself is absurd.

  101. Lokesh says:

    I heard Tiruvanamalai is a high energy spot. Now I don’t know who to believe.

  102. Satya Deva says:

    Lokesh:
    …John Lennon loved Osho dearly. what a load of bollocks…and really what difference does it make to anyone if he did or if he didn’t? What is questionable is why someone thinks it necessary to employ such hyperbolic shite.

    SD:
    I think Bob nailed it, Lokesh, a few days ago, citing Sarjano as somewhat ‘over-imaginative’…a sort of psycho-spiritual ‘creative accountancy’…

    (This was Sarjano’s invention, not Shantam’s, btw).

  103. Satya Deva says:

    Lokesh:
    Shantam, you say: I think, not even three statements of me during 2 years time, will fall in the absurd catagory..

    This statement in itself is absurd.

    SD:
    Beat me to the punch here, Lokesh….

  104. frank says:

    now there`s a freudian slip sd..
    unconscious desires slipping out…

  105. frank says:

    and a few conscious ones….

  106. frank says:

    je ne suis pas absurde,,,,
    —-albert shantus

  107. Lokesh says:

    ‘It’s all good.’ Bunan

  108. frank says:

    guru bunana
    take us to nirvana
    we know you can
    you`re our man….

  109. frank says:

    “everything that is significant is absurd”
    —–osho

  110. frank says:

    the greek god sisyphus tricked death into telling him his secrets,and blagged his way into a high heaven,and was enjoying it immensely with his wife….
    he took it on himself to publicise some of zeus` dubious sexual and other bebehaviour became a kind of divine whistleblower…
    for his hubris,he was punished by being sentenced to rolling a ball of dung up a hill.
    the ball got larger and larger and when it reached the top rolled down again.
    then he had to start again..
    and on thru all eternity…
    sysyphus realised this was absurd and frustrating,but again had his victory over the gods and fate by coming to enjoy his task…..

  111. prem bubbie says:

    but frank. with a wankathon you can’t get hiv, hepatitis B, C; nor herpes, or the clap…. back in those good old days of fucking on the drop of a dime, people acted stupidly because their sex filled pressure cooker was looking for a way relieve its steam. It’s like a chef who just cooks and cooks and doesn’t know how to share the dinner. Even after the hiv tests came out in the early ’80′s sannyasins still fucked without condoms and swapped partners whether male or female. One just has to look at the attitudes and comments made by the gay communities; it was an attitude that they recently won their sexual freedom and no one/nothing was going to restrain them ever again, including hiv. Sannyasins pretty much took the same road and attitude. Now that’s being not only stupid, but insane.

  112. frank says:

    bubbie,
    sounds like the saibaba wankathon is the one for you,then…

  113. prem martyn says:

    lokesh.. your answer can only mean one of two things or both or none..

    it might mean i wasnt looking for the same thing as they were… and wouldnt give it credibility anyway..

    so i stayed on intermittently and enjoyed becoming less and less engaged …
    its a form of enjoyment which reached many peaks…

    what a palaver .. makes you think though what was it all about…

  114. Satya Deva says:

    Satya Deva:

    Lokesh:
    Shantam, you say: I think, not even three statements of me during 2 years time, will fall in the absurd catagory..

    This statement in itself is absurd.

    SD:
    Beat me to the punch here, Lokesh….

    frank:

    now there`s a freudian slip sd..
    unconscious desires slipping out…

    and a few conscious ones….

    SD:
    No, mate – just a grammatical glitch…

    Mind you, you gotta watch these Scots geezers when there’s booze around…

  115. Satya Deva says:

    Or, as Shantosho once declared:

    “Je suis absurde, alors j’existe”.

  116. Lokesh says:

    Ah a wankathon, now that takes me back. Why, I can remember back in Poona One there was this German chick with huge……zzzzzzzz

  117. frank says:

    was that stacia out of hawkwind?

  118. frank says:

    master-baiters of the universe?

  119. frank says:

    `77.
    in search of space.

  120. frank says:

    (in the cleavage)

  121. frank says:

    ace of spades
    ace of spades…

  122. Lokesh says:

    ……zzzzzzzz Hawkwind! Did you say Hawkwind? Well, now, did I ever tell you about the Hawkwind concert down under the Westway when I accidently swallowed 20 trips of Purple…..zzzzzzzzz

  123. Lokesh says:

    zzzzzzzzz….Me and Lemmy were……………zzzzzzzz

  124. Lokesh says:

    Guess where this famous quote is from and win a night with Shantam at this year’s Wankathon Olympics.

    Playin’ for the high one, dancin’ with the devil
    going with the flow, it’s all a game to me

  125. frank says:

    that was a great time the summer of 71.
    i cant remember it but i`ll never forget it
    —-lemmy

  126. prem martyn says:

    we are all alone…

    …….and this blog is proof….

  127. frank says:

    true `nuff,

    make the most of what we may yet spend
    before we to into the dust descend
    dust into dust and under dust to lie
    no wine no song no singer and no end….

  128. Lokesh says:

    It’s the singer not the song…

  129. prem martyn says:

    I have seen Life of Brian only about 4 times and fawlty towers father ted about the same number….if someone told me that i could find salvation ( no mind) through watching endless re-runs of the same.. well it would be difficult but not impossible to consider watching them again and again….. but if someone said this is how you become that creative enough to write such masterpieces or you can be saved…. the choice would be instant…….
    give me comic talent and creativity anytime….

    and now some musing on the word meditation

    quite an unattractive proposition..and i must have looked at that word thousands of times it never looks pretty to me…. not like the word beauty…..
    when i see osho in my memory. i often think.. mmmm…lucky man martyn….
    thereby contiguously alerting my senses to beauty…

    ( then i usually think ah the rent needs paying again.. do something oshofiable before grim reaper arrives )

    but i never got convinced of any emphasis of having to ‘meditate’ either by ‘meditating’ or seeing/ being with others who ‘meditate’……. in fact the only thing i ever heartily recommended was ‘enlightenment intensive’…( though its so simple to do one wonders why we didnt collectively set it up also as a way of networking… who am i ,whats your address, how many partners do you have….etc etc…

    .in fact in late sannyas… i took to telling people i dont meditate just so they stopped wondering why….
    (‘ i’m not a fucking buddhist now fuck off and leave me alone ‘ …was probably closer to the truth….)

    next…would i recommend any groups… now lets see….
    :)

    if you would like to see my list of recommendations for a hale and hearty life.. kindly send a postcard to

    Meditraitors International
    Path of Laugh
    Giggletown
    Osho centre
    Ambitioustyville
    Codswallop County

    and… Good Morning Oshoistaaaaaaaaann

  130. prem bubbie says:

    “everything that is significant is absurd”. So says osho, according to frank… well osho also must be talking about himself …. since according to many, Osho was the greatest thing since the Gatling gun and prune juice…. so osho is hereby declared- Absurd, and all web sites dealing with him are now officially closed!! merry Xmas and a happy new year!!!

  131. prem bubbie says:

    and a happy hanukkah to you, shantam

  132. prem martyn says:

    bubbie dont be worried

    its nature’s way of saying

    …you are really not the body….no i mean really… no i insist… really…

  133. prem bubbie says:

    and for all of those ma’s who are wondering where their next lay will be coming, drop your contact info off at Sri Ama Bimbo’s ashram in Berlin. I’ll be in touch… first come, first served…. no fatties please.

  134. prem bubbie says:

    “i’m not worried, i’m happy”–meher bubbie

  135. prem martyn says:

    i wanna live forever.. i wanna learn how to… lala lala

  136. prem martyn says:

    i think you have to go to the darwin awards home page from now on bubbie….
    if you wanna really find survivalists who never quite made it to the pack

  137. bob says:

    here’s a youtube video that covers a lot of the topics we’re discussing here, filmed on Dec. 11, 2010 in Koregaon Park, Pune, India, Osho people singing and dancing in kirtan to devotional songs…

    –osho birthday celebrations not done in Pune Resort, sannyasins must rent hall to do it.

    –it seems they can accomplish this very easily, and be happy doing it too.

    –sighting of the dead. isn’t that Ma Jivan Mary dancing there at 1:50, and coming bigger into the screen at 3:50, the white haired lady in red. looks like her, anyway. didn’t Shantam tell us a month ago she had died in New Zealand? anyone care to comment?


    The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

    and btw, isn’t that john lennon playing guitar there, with yoko putting in contact lens solution in her eyes next to him….(haha)…?

  138. prem bubbie says:

    looks like a boring “party” to me…. what’s this “red” clothing shit? Wasn’t that over with 20 years ago… that lady wearing red with a star of david? Huh? this looks more like a schvitz/with clothes than a party. where was this held… in Brighton Beach, Brooklyn? Hey, where’s my knish? Who stole my kishka? Walkers and Wheel Chairs for sale… cheap… Just ask for Uncle Bubbalah…

  139. prem bubbie says:

    happy hanukkah, uncle bob.

  140. prem martyn says:

    http://www.welcometothismoment.com/video/love-approves-do-you-get-that

    look guys its all male here so i thought we should celebrate musically our unique consciousnarse together…

    love osho ? in what particular way…

    :)

  141. Lokesh says:

    Yes, I watched 30 seconds of that Osho birthday vid, which I also noticed has had 80 hits, which only goes to show how such things are changing the world we live in. Had I been there I would have joined in, not wishing to be a spoil sport, but as far as raising the energy goes give me an AC/DC concert any day. Does this mean I’m on a highway to hell?
    Martyn, I find Life of Brian, equally boring and Fawlty fucking Towers is maybe okay for a boring evening at home, but maybe it is because both of those things are so very English and I much prefer the likes of Rab C Nesbit. Does this mean I am a hooligan who wears a string vest?
    I also can’t go along with your take on meditation. Not that I actually sit down and ‘Meditate’ very often. The last time was three days ago when I sat by the sea and listened to the lapping of the waves with my eyes closed. I do have a meditative quality to my life in that I endeavour to try and be totally with whatever I am doing, even if that happens to be nothing or sitting typing this in a little 300 year old room in my house on Ibiza. Being present is the name of the game and I enjoy playing it.

  142. prem martyn says:

    Lokesh your comments have been noticed.. its probably meditation as a response to listening to AC DC that you speak of … there are cures

    have you tried vitamin C ?

    ps you have mail…..

  143. prem martyn says:

    bob the video….

    is that shantams retirement home friday bash…
    sitting cross legged and rocking… wow what a party

  144. prem martyn says:


    The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

    fuck i found the rule book….have to start all over again–

  145. shantam says:

    Bob..As far as west is concerned…Osho’s little presence on websites is almost a Obitury to the real Osho..the man who wanted to change the dynamics of religion..the man who wanted to teach refinement of thoughts and feelings to industrialised west and wanted to bring industries to the naive and uneducated Indian masses..

    I ask again and again to the western readers, when was the last time, Someone in your friends circle took Sannyas..and if one in million changed the name, it is most probably because of the old school of Osho sannyasins..

    even though Media has become million times more active in these 20 years, every dog on the street is thinking to join some reality show, every parrot is going through the voice training, any day he can be called into some talk show…The man Osho is just confined to few thousand clicks per day..

    God bless the president of Osho Interitalia, Swami silvio Berlusconi..

  146. prem martyn says:

    lokesh i have AD HD.. is it the opposite of your condition.

  147. frank says:

    one thing that disciples,devotees,oshologists alike have all overlooked,despite access to the akashik records being pretty open these days is….
    when osho was murdered 3 days from enlightenment in his previous life,then had to make up for it with 21 years of annoying his superiors in his rajneesh life…
    according to the cosmic rulebook,correct me if i`m wrong,that means he`s still got one more life to go…
    jan 19th 90 was not “game over…”
    96 down,one to go….

    knowing this,you can imagine,i was not overly surprised when at a recent AC/DC gig,out of the corner of my third eye.i noticed a burly shaven headed youth with a load of tattoos, in a string vest waving a half-empty bottle of buckfast tonic wine in the air,shouting:
    highway to hell
    highway to hell…
    in a scottish accent…

    he`s back…..

    the vision has been fulfuilled.
    the dream is now..
    religionless religion?
    this life,he`s got it goin` on….

  148. prem martyn says:

    its like showtime at the osho and i’m ok corral..

    Marty the Kid

    doc ‘Frank’ I’m on Holiday

    Lucky ‘Ibiza’ Lokesh

    .. we’re smoking….
    looks like Desperate Dan Shantam the sherriff might stand back until the gunpowder settles….

  149. shantam says:

    Osho with one life more in the Akashic credit..

    I think first time he has got the taste of western people but not the western life, who knows, hypothetically He can be born again as some western giant..the real Anti Christ…

    Only and only than west as a civilisation will take notice.. because the too much superiority complex has made them so rigid that everybody else can be only subordinate at the most equal but better…not at all, never heard…

    And Village born Indian gurus are so childish in their attitude that when few broken screws of west bow down before them, they think the whole western civilisation is bowing down..

  150. Lokesh says:

    The above comment was allegedly written by the same person who wrote this 24 hours ago: I think, not even three statements of me during 2 years time, will fall in the absurd catagory.
    Ehm…er…something is not quite right here.

    PS My favorite movie is Sam Pekinpah’s ‘Wild Bunch’.

  151. Satya Deva says:

    Prem Martyn:
    and now some musing on the word meditation

    quite an unattractive proposition..and i must have looked at that word thousands of times it never looks pretty to me…. not like the word beauty…..
    when i see osho in my memory. i often think.. mmmm…lucky man martyn….
    thereby contiguously alerting my senses to beauty…

    ( then i usually think ah the rent needs paying again.. do something oshofiable before grim reaper arrives )

    but i never got convinced of any emphasis of having to ‘meditate’ either by ‘meditating’ or seeing/ being with others who ‘meditate’….

    SD:
    Right, Martyn, here’s something that’ll really wind you up…


    The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

  152. shantam says:

    Hard facts, politically incorrect statements don’t make you darling of the middle brained intellectuals….people are not willing to digest simple truth, what to say about the knock out punch from Existance…

    Can someone ever tell..what Amma was doing in any of her past life in any of the western country…
    I am sure..even Amma will decline this…at the most a nun in some Greek Monestary..

    Same is about Osho..never ever he has mentioned about any of his past life in Queen’s Britain or neighbour countries… even under the influence of laughing drugs, he could not go till that extreme…

    and these pune One sannyasins..was tOsho not the fashion of that time??

    Though Osho thought..he is on the way to create the biggest spiritual facebook of the world …500 million sannyasins.. color of the earth will be Orange…

  153. prem martyn says:

    satya deva i found one….
    and its surrogate meditation… you do it for me…

    im more than lazy.. i’m compulsively lazy..
    the only pleasurable thing i do regularly.. is .. well you dont wanna know…
    but i often do it with my babe…

  154. frank says:

    its not about having a superiority complex shantam.
    its about being superior.
    look,even a chainsmoking boozer from medical school in london was able to take over the organisation of your master of indian masters, right under the noses of the locals…..!
    like taking candy from a kid….
    and his mate,who couldnt keep on the right side of the law in his home country but in india..
    he`s chairman of the board…..
    whisky at the oberoi..whilst the others are “meditating”
    nice scam….

    india is big in religion because its the strategy of losers.
    we are shite in this world life so we`ll invent another one that we can win at…
    trouble is psycho-whitey is beating you even at that now he has put his mind to it.

    shantam.
    time to listen to mum.
    go out and get a job.
    you`ll feel much better..

  155. Lokesh says:

    What you don’t seem to understand about ‘those Poona One sannyasins’, Shantam, is that they actually had real contact with Osho the man. Unlike yourself, many of ‘those’ people you keep refering to actually sat and talked with Osho like human beings do. Those sannyasins had direct guidance on a personal level. Those Poona One sannyasins were affected by Osho in a way that you can only dream about had you the imagination, which I sincerely doubt- In other words, you don’t have a clue what you are talking about.

  156. Chinmaya says:

    kutte ki poonch kabhi seedhi nahi hoti…..

  157. prem martyn says:

    where has all the money gone….long time passing

    where has all the money gone… far far away

    WHERE HAVE ALL THE FLOWERS GONE
    words and music by Pete Seeger

  158. prem martyn says:

    bunch of yuppies spinning moonshine with no accountability and hundreds of millions of dollars income per annum… and oberoi penthouse suites…. wow…

    jayesh must have done dynamic really thoroughly to become so blessed…

  159. Alok john says:

    Lokesh wrote “What you don’t seem to understand about ‘those Poona One sannyasins’, Shantam, is that they actually had real contact with Osho the man. Unlike yourself, many of ‘those’ people you keep refering to actually sat and talked with Osho like human beings do. Those sannyasins had direct guidance on a personal level. Those Poona One sannyasins were affected by Osho in a way that you can only dream about had you the imagination”

    Shantam, why don’t you buy and read Krishna Prem’s book “OSHO, INDIA and ME.” It is here http://www.lulu.com/content/paperback-book/osho-india-and-me/8542409

  160. shantam says:

    After Lokesh^s comment Chinamya has written-
    kutte ki poonch kabhi seedhi nahi hoti…..
    Dogs tail never gets straight…

    it means also the moment master disappered…tail came out from the pipe…it was as crooked as always…

    When i think about living master disciple relation..i can only admire the last supper with Jesus. Something must have transpired in that gathering…that these 12 people, yes..only 12 people could inspire billions to come..
    Till the end..Osho has this satisfaction, His video recordings are the proof, that if 12 people could spread like a wild fire..these thousands and thousands..from around the world…who are blessed to have the presence of a Living Master..

    And the reality is…
    Just today i asked a sannyasin, ” when was the last time you have seen someone taking sannyas in the west?”.
    after few seconds of thought, he answered, ” in 1998, when Neelam came for meditation camp in Zürich.”

    i always tell to people, ” What you earn with your foot teps is yours. what you got as grace..simply evaporates like dew drops. Look at Pune one sannyasins..or the Jasmine fragrance from Amma’s hugs..its effect last less than Axe deodrant…

  161. shantam says:

    Martyn has written-
    bunch of yuppies spinning moonshine with no accountability and hundreds of millions of dollars income per annum… and oberoi penthouse suites…. wow…

    I think few facts need to be brought in their prospective..
    Sometime myths and here say become more powerful than facts…

    For example-hundreds of millions of dollers income per year…Is the Osho Pune doing the BPO work for fortune 500 companies?
    Infosys, india’s pride in IT related work with half million employees world wide does not get this much profit.

    FACT IS RESORT IS A LOSS MAKING VENTURE.
    One can Check the koregaon Park hotels on the net and phone them to enquire, how many Osho people are staying in this high season.

    And the advent of internet has any way killed the book trade, and people are not fools to buy the recycled compilations in Mass.

    Thousands of paragraphs at facebook are free material, copied and pasted from here and there. If doubt, please write a question at your facebook page,” when was the last time, someone purchased Osho book.”

    How so ever i may disapprove Jayesh’s complete control over the Osho movement…Never ever one can accuse him of using ashram money for private purposes..
    No one can say what is the source of his personal income, But he is the one who has pumped much of his personal fortune and also invests ashram money in a very prudent way..

    In this level, he is an upright gentleman..Only problem is, he is not a team player…does not know how to appreciate those who are not, YesSir type..
    The end result is Osho Pune has only his signatures…it is one man homage to His master well maintained with the army of paid servents and yes sir kind of courtitians..

  162. Lokesh says:

    Shantam you say: Look at Pune one sannyasins..or the Jasmine fragrance from Amma’s hugs..its effect last less than Axe deodrant…
    Which only goes to show what an arrogant fool and short-sighted bigot you are. Even though you think us ‘Westerners’ are so terribly uncultured compared to you Indians, we do actually have a wee bit of culture…it’s called ‘pop’ culture. We have a song for people like you. It goes like this.

    Well they tell me of a pie up in the sky
    Waiting for me when I die
    But between the day you’re born and when you die
    They never seem to hear even your cry
    CHORUS:
    So as sure as the sun will shine
    I’m gonna get my share now of what’s mine
    And then the harder they come the harder they’ll fall, one and all
    Ooh the harder they come the harder they’ll fall, one and all
    Well the officers are trying to keep me down
    Trying to drive me underground
    And they think that they have got the battle won
    I say forgive them Lord, they know not what they’ve done
    CHORUS
    ooh yeah oh yeah woh yeah ooooh
    And I keep on fighting for the things I want
    Though I know that when you’re dead you can’t
    But I’d rather be a free man in my grave
    Than living as a puppet or a slave
    CHORUS
    Yeah, the harder they come, the harder they’ll fall one and all
    What I say now, what I say now, awww
    What I say now, what I say one time
    The harder they come the harder they’ll fall one and all
    Ooh the harder they come the harder they’ll fall one and all

    And so it goes.

  163. prem martyn says:

    ah yes krishna prem…
    who when he said he liked to smack women up in sex.. and was embarassed by his urges.. osho said find a woman who likes it.. then you’ll both be happy…

    how unspiritual…

  164. frank says:

    “putti ki poonch…..”
    that`s an odd proverb
    why on earth would you put a dog`s tail into a pipe?

    maybe it was one of those old khajuraho routines….

  165. frank says:

    but seriously,chinmaya,i want to get an idea of what sort of person you are …

    if two gay guys came on to you,would you beat them off?

  166. prem martyn says:

    shantam .. check the jayesh link and calculations based on visitors and average spend…

  167. prem bubbie says:

    suddenly, after reading shantam’s posts, .. It’s so clear to me now, why India has been a stagnant, cesspool of a culture, a lazy culture, a shit hole for its people…. just read shantam’s posts- all becomes quite clear.

  168. prem bubbie says:

    even capitalism can’t help india… they love stagnation too much.

  169. prem bubbie says:

    What might work however, if the entire india population were forced to take long cold showers every morning, for about a year… they’ll cave in.

  170. prem martyn says:

    frank only those who went to public school can answer this question on english sports lessons

  171. prem martyn says:

    “Beauty is truth, truth beauty, – that is all
    Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.”

    That was John Keats’ emphatic finale to his Ode on a Grecian Urn. It seems to express Plato’s theory of aesthetics, his idea that an apprehension of beauty is an apprehension of perfection and that all things in our shadowy realm are botched representations of perfect ‘forms’ that exist elsewhere. Beauty is goodness and, for Plato, the ultimate of all the forms is ‘The Good’.

    bubbie…. he may not have been thinking of you though…

  172. frank says:

    bubbie sounds like you`ve joined the kkk.

    one white robe is the same as the next,i suppose.

  173. bob says:

    so no one wants to touch the dead sannyasin reappearance in the video.

    ok, suit yourselves.

    but, remember,

    no guts, no glory.

    me, i have many rivers to cross,

    and miles to go before i sleep.

    happy chanukah and god bless santa claus.

    where is agatha cristie when we need her?

    cheers.

  174. prem martyn says:

    bob , sannyassins never die .. they just go on and bloody on…

  175. Satya Deva says:

    Interesting Idea of the Day (inspired by ‘dialogue’ of Shantam & Lokesh):

    Those who have been truly and deeply affected by Osho are far more relaxed about commenting upon him in a ‘non-devotional’, non-dogmatic way than those who would like to have been so affected (or pretend to have been ).

    Thus, we have the extreme uptight violence of the mad Islamists…

    And the shock/horror reaction of certain people round here to some of the, er, ‘irreverent’ comments made by graduates of Poona 1…

    (Some reactions to this little idea might be ‘interesting’, I reckon)….

  176. Satya Deva says:

    Ok, reference to Islamists above not strictly relevant re Osho, except to illustrate the general principle of the matter in question.

  177. bob says:

    Christie, Agatha….a Missed Marble-kisser from way back, but a damn good detective nonetheless…

    Plato…there must be a lot of goodness in the world then, because there’s a lot of beauty – isn’t everything natural beautiful? found out “Plato” was his styled name, meaning ‘plate’, or ‘plateau’…some say it was his wrestling coach that gave him the nickname because his was big and broad…others say because his ideas were like that. who knows…his real name was Aristocles, so they say…

  178. bob says:

    I’ll go out on a limb here, and say Satya Deva is a woman. And SD is not her true sannyas name, but a nom de guerre (so what else is new?).

    Yo or no, SD?

  179. prem bubbie says:

    Yes Frankie- Kishka, Knish, Kabbalah association… just can’t get enough…

  180. frank says:

    sd.
    in short.

    convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies.
    —–freddie nietzsche

    the show must go on.
    ——freddie mercury

  181. frank says:

    bob,
    all i can say is….
    watch out which limb it is you`re going out on…

  182. prem martyn says:

    satya deva..

    3) Osho had it coming , when he ushered in ‘abusive’ therapy. He included himself in the groups and its consequences ..de facto.. lock stock and barrel…the more so to anyone who protects him/it /that.And he doesn’t exist and death didnt exist for him.. so a few epithets… it might change the face of sannyas to say..
    osho, my beloved cunt.. a thing of beauty , fathomless , irrestible and tough as old boots…

  183. prem martyn says:

    bob .. re plato… it was a term of abuse his other name… it was aristotles testicles…..Aristocles… a shortened version used by his opponents as they waved them at him from under their togas…

    and
    yes they did…

  184. bob says:

    no guts, no glory.

    a limb a day keeps the boredom away.

  185. Satya Deva says:

    bob:

    I’ll go out on a limb here, and say Satya Deva is a woman. And SD is not her true sannyas name, but a nom de guerre (so what else is new?).

    Yo or no, SD?

    SD:
    That used to earn top sannyas marks at one time, bob…

    Not now though, I’m afraid.

    Wrong on both counts!

    Better luck next time….

  186. Satya Deva says:

    #
    frank:

    sd.
    in short.

    convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies.
    —–freddie nietzsche

    the show must go on.
    ——freddie mercury

    SD:
    I have a strong conviction you’re ABSOLUTELY, IRREVOCABLY, INDISPUTABLY RIGHT, Frank….

  187. prem martyn says:

    SD
    how triggering emotions work socially….
    and you wanna know why acceptable osho behaviour works en masse


    The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

    who was he.. freuds nephew…and mass control….

    the series is called the ‘century of the self’


    The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

  188. prem martyn says:

    SD
    how triggering emotions work socially….
    and you wanna know why acceptable osho behaviour works en masse


    The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

    who was he.. freuds nephew…and mass control….

  189. prem martyn says:

    the series is called the ‘century of the self’


    The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

  190. bob says:

    well, it’s lucky i’m not a sannyasin, so i don’t have to worry about “sannyas marks”, high or low. school’s out for me.

    the reason i think you’re a woman SD, is that you have that strong maternal instinct for the downtrodden and done-wrong indigenous people (tibetans, native americans, aboriginies, etc). That is basically a female trait or leaning. i’m sure you’re right, from a certain perspective(the Yin). From the other perspective(Yang), you’re wrong – progress will trump traditional fairness across the board.

    Probably the most maligned underdog group on the earth today are the Islamic people. I wonder if you can defend them in your largess of heart. They are taking the most abuse worldwide nowadays it seems to me.

  191. frank says:

    a casual stroll through a lunatic asylum will show that faith proves nothing
    ——freddie neitzsche

    i`m going slightly mad.
    —–freddie mercury

  192. prem martyn says:

    bob.. have you heard of the chinese whistle blowing website…

    ..www.rikiweaks.olllgg.

  193. bob says:

    the original Mercury – the greek god – could change form in a heartbeat. could move faster than a scalded dog too.

    quicksilver they called him, part of Nietzsche’s Superman actually.

    faster than a speeding bullet.

    add, more powerful than a locomotive, and the ability to leap tall buildings in a single bound, and there you have it – SUPERMAN !

    The Platonic stuff about the man who could see Beauty, Truth, and Goodness came later.

    With the Ouzo and feta cheese.

  194. Satya Deva says:

    Bob:
    the reason i think you’re a woman SD, is that you have that strong maternal instinct for the downtrodden and done-wrong indigenous people (tibetans, native americans, aboriginies, etc). That is basically a female trait or leaning. i’m sure you’re right, from a certain perspective(the Yin). From the other perspective(Yang), you’re wrong – progress will trump traditional fairness across the board.

    SD:
    Well, is that so, Bob? Strange, if I thought about it at all I’d tended to regard it rather as a, er, ‘human’ trait myself…

    And I don’t quite see the value in your assigning ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ labels either.

    Unless you’re simply pointing out the truism that an intellectual materialist ‘civilisation’ will inevitably trample simpler peoples into the dust. I do believe we all know this by now, Bob, but it doesn’t necessarily imply ‘moral good’. Does it?

    what’s all this “progress” you’re on about anyway?

  195. Satya Deva says:

    Bob:
    Probably the most maligned underdog group on the earth today are the Islamic people. I wonder if you can defend them in your largess of heart. They are taking the most abuse worldwide nowadays it seems to me.

    SD:
    On the contrary, Bob, today there are probably many more practising Islamists than practising adherents of any other religion and it wouldn’t surprise me at all to find that “the most maligned underdog group on the Earth” is currently ‘the Satan America and its allies’!

    Anyway, you seem to wish to score a bogus point or two by asserting an argument that’s not only specious but irrelevant to me.

    You seem to see in me what you want to see and I’m afraid it ain’t so.

    As I said, better luck next time.

  196. Satya Deva says:

    PS:
    Re your views on Tibet, may I inform you that I have come across a fair number of Tibetan refugees, who have fled the country, out of fear for their lives.

    They have told of the desecration of the traditional culture, of the looting and destruction of monasteries, beatings, imprisonment and torture at the hands of the Chinese army and police. And I’ve seen the marks they still bear on their bodies.

    The price of ‘progress’?! Yeah, sure, Bob…

    Yes, the country needed modernisation – which would be fine if the native Tibetans were allowed to really benefit from it all, while retaining their traditional religion-based culture. For God’s sake (to coin a phrase) even to have a photo of the Dalai Lama is a criminal offence out there!).

    But all the accounts I’ve heard and read – including, btw, those from neutral observers – indicate that it’s the incoming Chinese colonists who are hoovering up the goodies, not the Tibetans at all. That’s why they went in, of course, to get rich from the country’s resources – and to hell with the indigenous people.

    Sorry, Bob, you appear to have some sort of ‘blind spot’ here. But what else to expect from someone who evidently appears to ‘believe’ in our simply wonderful, so very ‘progressive’ world culture…?

  197. bob says:

    well, it’s like this SD…

    about progress…

    at one time, the Tibetan people had an animist type religion, probably similar to the nature religions of most non-literate so-called “primitive” societies (native americans, japanese shinto, african, etc). I think it was called “Bon” in Tibet — something like that.

    When the Buddhist ideas were slowly brought in from India with the monk/masters like Tilopa, Milarepa, Naropa, Atisha, etc., this was a foreign set of precepts, and the Tibetans had to be wicked into them over centuries of inculcation and transformation.

    This would be called religious progress, at least to most people looking at it retrospectively. Though you can bet there was resistance internally all over the Qinghai Plateau from the Bon oriented folk.

    Same story, on a different level, when the Han Chinese, a group of people, by the way, with the longest and deepest Buddhist history on the face of the planet, set up a new system that was to bring a midevial aristocratic theocracy that hadn’t changed for some 800 years, into the modern world, with modern social modalities like freedom from caste, freedom from slavery, freedom from Potala Palace based religious hegemony by a small few over the subservient masses. Basically the commusnist based paradigm.

    This was also progress – economic, material, educational, gender, and so on. Vast progress too.
    The females in these cultures were generally treated on the same level as dogs. Not so anymore. That’s progress. Do you know what those Tibetan prayer wheels function is….? they are used for the literate elite Buddhists to write prayers, put in the drums, and then, the dumb peasants can come and spin them…kind of like, ‘let us do the praying for you” attitude that is used by all domineering priesthoods. Now those people can go to school and learn to read and write, and with Han Chinese too, a far more advanced language than Tibetan. That’s progress.

    So, progress isn’t so bad. It happens all over. It’s natural.

    Just think, from your Osho sannyasin viewpoint about it. If people were allowed control over their traditional societies forever, how would the Osho vision have a chance anywhere? It would be deemed an invasive foreign force, to be resisted. In Tibet, in the US, anywhere. Is that what you want? I don’t think so.

  198. Anand says:

    How so ever i may disapprove Jayesh’s complete control over the Osho movement…Never ever one can accuse him of using ashram money for private purposes..
    No one can say what is the source of his personal income, But he is the one who has pumped much of his personal fortune and also invests ashram money in a very prudent way..

    hullbaloola Shantam…where is the source of this information? Plain rumors I guess.

  199. bob says:

    got to go to the local osho center now, and do some Kundalini Meditation.

    So long for now.

  200. Anand says:

    Shantam also writes: In this level, he is an upright gentleman..

    My god Shantam, he really got you fooled…..

  201. Anand says:

    Shantam also says: No one can say what is the source of his personal income,

    if no one can say this, maybe there was nothing…check out Edmonton Canada records….

  202. prem bubbie says:

    It’s been rumored that you were born, anand… is this true? happy hannukah.

  203. shantam says:

    Openness, transparency — these are among the few weapons the citizenry has to protect itself from the powerful and the corrupt.
    What if within days of August 4th, 1964 — after the Pentagon had made up the lie that our ship was attacked by the North Vietnamese in the Gulf of Tonkin — there had been a WikiLeaks to tell the American people that the whole thing was made up? I guess 58,000 of our soldiers (and 2 million Vietnamese) might be alive today.

    Instead, secrets killed them.

    From Michael Moore’s letter.

    No wonder, Osho’s quotation, “Priests and polticians are mafia of the soul”, is repeated millions of times by sannyasins with this much conviction as if these two spices are somewhere down there in the bad bad world.

    Is it not a time to ask loudly, what about one’s own church…

    Yesterday,an Indian snnnyasin friend of me was visiting us. As he has read in Osho’s books, so he was repeating with contempt, How Rama send his wife Sita to exile because Rama heard a washerman’s satirist comment.”
    These kind of people we worship and adore, he asked with a voice of the winner.”

    I asked my friend,” have you not read this incident in Osho’s books more often”?
    Where was this bravedo,when His own companion was disposed off in the middle of the night by bypassing all the required postmartom procedure.

    Is it not so easy to blame others but not oneself…..

    I think, when i look back, allmost all the secretaries and advisors of Osho should have been fired from the post as none of them told him to face the music with dignity..It will enhance his stature in the world…

    Same bunch of people with dubious character are teaching people a new way of religiousity,,,No wonder..world is happy with their old traditions and make believe Massiahas..

    Seems like screenscript writers can create better religions..perfect from the first till last breath..
    Jesus, Buddha, Krishna are the examples

  204. Lokesh says:

    Ho…hum.

  205. Satya Deva says:

    Bob:
    When the Buddhist ideas were slowly brought in from India with the monk/masters like Tilopa, Milarepa, Naropa, Atisha, etc., this was a foreign set of precepts, and the Tibetans had to be wicked into them over centuries of inculcation and transformation.

    This would be called religious progress, at least to most people looking at it retrospectively. Though you can bet there was resistance internally all over the Qinghai Plateau from the Bon oriented folk.So, progress isn’t so bad. It happens all over. It’s natural.

    SD:
    A major difference, however, Bob, is the timescale, is it not? I’d say that “centuries of inculcation and transformation” is very different from a sudden, violent invasion, followed by systematic destruction of a society, using all the techno-military etc. advantages of the modern world.

    And whereas “This would be called religious progress, at least to most people looking at it retrospectively”, I hardly think “religious progress” is or ever was on the Chinese agenda!

    You know very well their motivation: Wealth and Power – and to hell with whoever or whatever gets in their way. Just another manifestation of ‘Western materialism’ and you’re right that it’s almost certainly utterly unstoppable.

    Whether it ultimately constitutes ‘progress’ though, is more than somewhat debatable. I mean, ‘progress’ has brought us to, er, where exactly, Bob? What would you say is our or our children’s future: Obliteration by super-weapons of mass murder – or by man-made global warming/climate change and its destructiveeffects?

    Just think, from your Osho sannyasin viewpoint about it. If people were allowed control over their traditional societies forever, how would the Osho vision have a chance anywhere? It would be deemed an invasive foreign force, to be resisted. In Tibet, in the US, anywhere. Is that what you want? I don’t think so.

    SD:

  206. prem martyn says:


    The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

    part 1 of 6

    the 60′s growth movement after chicago ’68 reich lowen perls esalen… its all there…

    how did we get to where we are……its not religion but liberation and desire….
    oh dear…maneesha… you helped anna freud as her nurse in hampstead.. i would have smothered her…

  207. Satya Deva says:

    Ooops, last paragraph wrongly placed above, so will deal with it here…

    Bob:
    Just think, from your Osho sannyasin viewpoint about it. If people were allowed control over their traditional societies forever, how would the Osho vision have a chance anywhere? It would be deemed an invasive foreign force, to be resisted. In Tibet, in the US, anywhere. Is that what you want? I don’t think so.

    SD:
    Another spurious argument, I’m afraid, Bob.

    And btw, I don’t necessarily come from an “Osho sannyasin viewpoint”, I speak for myself, as do others here, presumably including yourself. As yesterday, when you tried to score a point or two by putting me in a ‘support the underdog every time’ box, now you’re trying it on again, telling me who I am and what I want – an old debating trick I wouldn’t recommend you try here, people are too smart.

    For a start, comparing “Osho’s vision” (whatever that might be, btw) with a full-scale military takeover of a technologically backward people is bizarre, to say the least. As if finding and living one’s individuality meditatively and celebrating with ‘love, life, laughter’ (hope I’m on the right track here!) could ever become a political campaign! Yes, some complete idiots tried that in Antelope, Oregon – and look how it ended up!

    You really believe ‘Osho’s people’ are interested in imposing their ideas on others, on ‘taking over the world’?!! That they’re that hopelessly idealistic, deluded and impractical, with not the slightest grasp of psycho-socio-political reality?

    No, Bob, apart from sheer violence, demonstrated by the Chinese in Tibet (notwithstanding any benefits of modernisation, the ones you list being real enough, granted), the only way genuine ‘progress’ arises is through ‘An Idea Whose Time Has Come’, which happens naturally, as part of our evolutionary process.

    I do wonder whether you actually have any real idea of what Osho is about.

  208. Satya Deva says:

    PS:
    I should have written in second-last paragraph above:
    “No, Bob, apart from sheer violence, demonstrated by the Chinese in Tibet (notwithstanding any benefits of modernisation, SOME OF the ones you list being real enough, granted)….’”

  209. shantam says:

    “America is great because as a citizen we have the obligation to speak the truth, even it goes aganist the govt.”

    While making Chai, this sentence from Barbara Strsisand touched my heart on Larry King Live.

    This constitutional milestone called first amendment, has given the teeth to chew, bark and bite“ Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

    Osho has spoken on length, just a year ago before his departure about his charter of human rights many times contradicting the UN charter of human rights, making it more profound, refined and free from the grip of poltical and clergy class.

    Who will impliment Osho Charter??? those others, the non meditators and therefore an inferior class! in Geneva or in New york or in the world capitals..

    Does the journey of thousands miles does not start from the footsteps of one’s own bed room…

  210. Satya Deva says:

    Bob:
    Same story, on a different level, when the Han Chinese, a group of people, by the way, with the longest and deepest Buddhist history on the face of the planet, set up a new system that was to bring a midevial aristocratic theocracy that hadn’t changed for some 800 years, into the modern world, with modern social modalities like freedom from caste, freedom from slavery, freedom from Potala Palace based religious hegemony by a small few over the subservient masses. Basically the commusnist based paradigm.

    SD:
    Why cite the now dead-and-buried Han Chinese Buddhist tradition? To demonstrate what massive ‘progress’ these people have achieved?! ‘Progress’ that allows them to attack, injure, torture, rape and kill thousands of their weaker so-called ‘compatriots’ of their ‘glorious empire’?!

    Those ‘freedoms’ are all very well – in theory – and who of us wouldn’t support them? However, as I said yesterday, it’s the Chinese colonists who are the beneficiaries, not the native Tibetans, from all accounts.

    So, in your terms, one undesirable condition of injustice has merely been replaced by another, with this time all the Tibetans at the bottom of the pile.

    Virtual cultural genocide sure is a wunnerful thing….

  211. Satya Deva says:

    Shantam:
    Osho has spoken on length, just a year ago before his departure about his charter of human rights many times contradicting the UN charter of human rights, making it more profound, refined and free from the grip of poltical and clergy class.

    Who will impliment Osho Charter??? those others, the non meditators and therefore an inferior class! in Geneva or in New york or in the world capitals..

    SD:
    You remember, Shantam, Osho saying there are usually two sorts of ‘disciples’ after a Master leaves the stage, their concerns being Esoteric – the ‘inner journey’ (or whatever you want to call it) and Exoteric – an overriding concern with externals, with organising and promoting concepts of the Master and his work, ie the traditional concern of priests (and even politicians, or the ‘political’ type

    I wonder which of these categories you’d place yourself in, Shantam…

    I know which I’d bet on…Have a guess….

  212. shantam says:

    Those who have been truly and deeply affected by Osho are far more relaxed about commenting upon him in a ‘non-devotional’, non-dogmatic way than those who would like to have been so affected (or pretend to have been ).
    Satya Deva…

    I don’t know how to drive the car. Few times i have tried to learn, but did not make a click. I see the cars standing on the roads, they don’t create the calling in my system. some time i see some old or senile person too driving the cars and i say to myself, “somewhere there brain must be more active and smart than me.”

    This reluctancy not to drive has not come from the fact that accident happens too and i have a fear to get killed or fractured in such incidents.

    But there are people who have some kind of driving phobia, the way there are people who are paranoid with the idea of devotion or organised religions born out of it.
    I wonder why such people took SANNYAS INITIATION in the first place…
    J. Krishnamurti or Sai Baba never asked for Master disciple relation. just join thecongregation the way one goes to OPD!

    Osho himself has created and spoken intensively about this Master disciple bonding and also the pitfalls on the way..MAny times he has said something like, ” You have to go in the train, and than to leave it also, when the destination arrives. One has to go step by step on the ladder and than to leave when the roof is reached.”

    Do we all have thesame destination and the same roof??

    Emotional bonding and devotion arising from it is the must in the Master disciple format…so much so..this relation is thought to be more intense and precious than parent child relation.

    The word “Dwij” and its defination is also being explained by Osho.. Roughly it means, second birth. first birth is given by the parents, second is by the Guru, the master.

    Can one say this for the professor at Harverd Business School, who will stamp the highest paid managers on the earth..

    This unique concept of Master disciple is a mile stone of many religious schools in India. somewhere they have rebelled against the certain dieties, Avatars and prophets for having the complete Franchise over the other worldly matters…

    Western disciples who are not happy to digest this foreign element are not bound by any court of law to go on following this tradition, this way of inner search..
    But to mold Osho’s selective quotes for their exit is as clever and childish as to say, Osho did not cut his beard because his parents were too poor to buy him the Gillete shaving system!

  213. Satya Deva says:

    Cheers for the link above, Martyn. I’ll watch all 6 programmes, I think, if it’s interesting enough. When was this first shown, any idea?

  214. Satya Deva says:

    Ok, Shantam, so you’re a natural ‘devotee’, which we’ve known for a long time…

    But you haven’t actually answered my question, have you?!

  215. prem martyn says:

    2002…..and there are 3 episodes, composed of six programmes on you tube

  216. shantam says:

    As an after thought, it is also very much possible that Satya deva may not feel the same devotion” kind of sticky thing with Osho as he does with MM.
    ( as i have no devotion thing around this self proclaimed Avatrara, therefore to write Mother for this homely south Indian woman will not happen)

    But in the process, i wll miss those intense benefits which SD gets from the relating..

    Similarly, Lokesh shows more Fluidity around this late Laughing Grand Pa from Lucknow than for Osho..

    Is it not love..which makes the soap bubbles of Wonder in the air..and how dry the life will be without these invisible bonds.

    Everytime i have seen tears on the white cheeks in Buddha hall, i have touched the feet of both..the recipiants from the west and the master from the east…

  217. Satya Deva says:

    The problem though, Shantam, is that especially now that Osho hasn’t been around for nearly 21 years, to be seen and heard in the flesh, let alone spoken with, it’s so easy to project our own concepts and wishes, our own selves, on to him. Isn’t it?

    Don’t you find that kind of ‘muddies the waters’ for you at all? Prevents you from really seeing yourself as you actually are, perhaps?

    Anyway, where do yiou place yourself, Shantam: Esoteric or Exoteric?

    Come on, don’t be shy!

  218. Satya Deva says:

    But I wouldn’t call myself a ‘devotee’ of Mother Meera, Shantam, it’s just not my style.

    However, when with her I am invariably deeply impressed by her presence, itself is a true blessing and I am totally grateful for what she’s given and showed me, I needed that.

  219. shantam says:

    Satya deva, thanks for adding Exoteric in my memory. I did not know this word two three minutes ago.
    Naturally Wikipedia is the source of best information.

    The term exoteric is mostly used in conjunction with religions and spirituality (as “esoteric” is often associated with esoteric spirituality), in which the teachings shift the believer’s focus away from the exploration of the inner self and towards the adherence to rules, laws and an individual God.

    The term exoteric may also reflect the notion of a divine identity outside and different from the identity of a human, whereas the esoteric notion claims that the divine is to be discovered within the human identity. One step further, the pantheistic notion suggests that the divine and the material world is one and the same.

    I will prefer the Pantheistic notion
    May be it is part of my inbuilt nature as a Pisces, a fish tied with the String of two opposite forces..devil and the divine..saint and the sinister…
    In astrology two other signs, Gemini and Sagitarius share this dual trait..and somewhere in our complete personality…we all personify different elements, in different proportions.

    East and west, Zorba and the Buddha, Yin and Yang..Tantra and Vipassana..materialist and spiritualist, Body and Soul……And one name OSHO, the master propagator of two extremes..

  220. prem martyn says:

    yes but willany of it get you a good shag ?

    which way is the best..

    isnt life great ?

    :)

  221. prem martyn says:

    will anyone support my www osho. porn. org website

    its like wikileaks for the perverts.. i mean ‘tantrikas’ of us

  222. prem martyn says:

    if you sit in silence with a blindfold while browsing this website you are guaranteed to feel something….

    but it may only be in the moment

    especially if you are over 50

  223. Lokesh says:

    Shantam, would you say that having the XXXL lobotomy has changed the quality of your life for the better?

  224. prem martyn says:

    http://www.jacquielawson.com/preview.asp?cont=1&hdn=0&pv=3111930&path=83563

    hello everyone
    i’m not sure but i think its about religion and john lennon…i might be wrong though

  225. Satya Deva says:

    Thanks, Martyn.

    Yes, definitely on-topic, this card…

    Strange name for a dog though…Chudleigh?!!

  226. Satya Deva says:

    Not a bad ‘pull the wool over your own and others’ eyes’ effort, Shantam, but…

    Please answer the question, your fans are becoming a trifle impatient…

    Esoteric or Exoteric?

    Come on, take a stand, man!

  227. shantam says:

    Is not Sannyas a lobotomy…?

    For me atleast it was…Life is never the same again for good or for worse.

    Going to Lucknow was for many may be a new bandage over the old surgery or like Vascetomy reversal!

    Esoteric or Exoteric?

    Man or woman; male or female.?

    do life has clear cut demarkation, square compartments made In India for IKEA..

  228. prem martyn says:

    so no sex then shantam ?

    yes i see the condition… devotious glorious fantasmi non sexi…
    first mentioned by hippocrates in his letter to his mum circa 33bc

  229. shantam says:

    The problem though, Shantam, is that especially now that Osho hasn’t been around for nearly 21 years, to be seen and heard in the flesh, let alone spoken with, it’s so easy to project our own concepts and wishes, our own selves, on to him. Isn’t it?

    For this reason, the world is celebrating Christmas..as always for the last 2100 years..
    In the name of God, Jesus and the holy Ghost..

    Halleluhahh..

    and Buddha was taken to China from India something like 2100 years before, and that too after 500 years of Buddha’s death..

    Was He preserved in the Coffin stitched by the people behind Victoria’s Secret??

  230. Chinmaya says:

    Shantam, perhaps, they were crocodile tears or momentary emotional touch or catharsis.

  231. shantam says:

    SEX..
    everybody love sex..Few by indulging few like Pope the Benedict preaching the use of condoms to avoid STD..

    In Hindi there is a common saying…
    Mile to Maari nahi to Brahmachari..

    Enjoy it if you get, otherwise remain celebate

    I will be happy to register at your Osho.porn.org site with my real name..But first get the permission form Osho foundation for using the registered trade mark..

    I hope you site will be different.. Porn with touch of meditative awareness, more aesthetic, less crude..

  232. Lokesh says:

    Oh, Chinmaya seems to be holding up well after his lobotomy.

  233. shantam says:

    Chinmaya, I have spend much of my life with western people….in the ashram and after wards..

    Hardly i have found crocodile tears on the white cheeks..
    They are more authentic than any product of Made in India even with ISO 9012 stamp

    Have you not heard about the Indian(Paki) mind..

    There are atleast three mind in every indian..
    First believes something, another says something else and another one is feeling totally different.

    And this is the reason i always wonder, do the ashram managers got this much transformation that not just their names but behaviour too has become Totally Indian…
    facts and figures are always different, the way Indian businesses does. Figure for the father are different what they are for the wife and for tax reasons..it is not the figures but the amount of Bribary… A Dalit is a Raja in India…

  234. bob says:

    Shantam,

    Since you’re the one a few months ago that posted the notice here on sannyasnews that Ma Jivan Mary had died, and have cut and pasted many jokes that she sent out on her email list here too…

    what do you think of her showing up a few days ago in that Koregaon Park video on Osho’s birthday celebration that I linked to here?

    if she really did die, and that really is her, then i think we have a bonafide miracle here…a resurrection from the dead. what jesus could not do, the old bird has pulled off. It would seem it should be the headlines all across the world.

    if she never died in the first place, and the story was a hoax, then she wasn’t too bright to show up in public a month later at an event that was videoed for global viewing on YouTube. Even if she’s gone senile a bit, some sannyasin should have pulled her to the side and explained the situation, quickly too. That was a real boner, a fax paux….faux pau….fou pow….oh, man that French Frase, i can never spell it right….

    Anyway, 2 cents for your thoughts on it, swamiji.

  235. bob says:

    and btw, Satya Deva, i’m not trying to dis you, i’m not ignoring your rebuttals above on the Tibet thing, but this rising from the dead story takes precedence, i think we can all agree on that at least.

    i’ll get back to you on the other things.

  236. bob says:

    faux pas, from the French, “false step”.
    a social blunder.
    sorry, that mispelling was definitely a faux pas, but surely not worse than what Mother Mary did on Dec. 11, if she did what it looks like she did….

  237. Lokesh says:

    Hallelujah…be prepared and plan for a miracle…people rising from the dead…time to dust off my Hammer Horror film collection…can’t seem to find Plague of the Zombies…maybe Shantam stole it for inspiration.

  238. prem martyn says:

    death is the greatest orgasm… but wanking yourself to death ..is not a form of meditation… why not?

  239. Lokesh says:

    Because it is a form of suicide?

  240. Chinmaya says:

    Shantam dear,
    In India, even God is said to be of three facet personality – Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh – then, why the men of the world shud not have different faces at different situation.
    Guru Nanak says –
    EKA MIE JUGAT VIYAI TIN CHELE PARWAN
    IK SANSARI IK BHANDARI IK LAYE DEEBAN
    God word is the assimilation of three words -Gee O Dee which means, Generator, Operator and Destroyer.

    So, if the Ultimate can have three faces, then, why the human beings should not have more than three faces. One for real, one for crocodile, one for pensive mood and one for gloomy and one for celebration and one for meditation and one for chat at Sanyasnews to go on fucking others, without conveying on the topic of blog. If you read the total of your outburst, you would agree on this view, including about the people, about whom, the total outcome has come out.

    So, come on Piyare, life is like that. It is difficult to understand the inner-most core of the ladies and even a matured man is just a child before any lady. Even Narad Munni was not able to understand the ladies. Not even Lord Shiva could understand, because the Ganesha is the outcome of that Mind of the Lady – Parvati. At one time, it was only Guru Gobind Singh, who could understand the lady, who wanted to have a baby like Him.

  241. Lokesh says:

    Chinmaya…have you tried cyanide capsules for your headaches?

  242. bob says:

    obviously a diversion from the topic at hand…smoke and ash in the air…

    Sun Tzu says: wait, be patient….

  243. Alok john says:

    “prem martyn // Dec 15, 2010 at 7:40 pm
    ah yes krishna prem…
    who when he said he liked to smack women up in sex.. and was embarassed by his urges..”

    Apparently there were two Krishna Prems so I think the one who wrote the book is the other one, from NE Canada.

  244. shantam says:

    Bob, there is Jeevan Mary and another is Prem Jeevan.
    Jeevan Marry who is from Newsiland has died and this info was posted by Anugrah.

    From time to time, i post the jokes from Prem Jeevan’s circular mail, she lives in Pune, and is unable to digest any criticism towards resort managers.

  245. bob says:

    right, Alok.

    2 Krishna Prems, at least….

    1. Swami Krishna Prem, aka Jack Allanach, Canadian,
    homosexual turned heterosexual, Press Officer in Ashram Pune 1 era onwards, wrote book published in 2010 (Osho, India, and Me), died from cancer (2009) in Australia. was the Krishna Prem Osho had stand up during one of his Zen discourses in Pune 2, before the whole assembly, Osho dressing him down for some alleged offense in a short question and answer exchange.

    2. Swami Krishna Prem, aka Michael Mogul, American, Jewish, born and raised in Boston area, mother died young, was raised by his elder sisters and father. created website G.U.R.U (Gee, You Are You!). employs much humor, with high sexual innuendo content, and gives counseling video clips about love, loving, etc. still alive.

  246. bob says:

    Shantam,

    thanks for clearing that up.

    then i was wrong on that, it was Anugrah who made the post on Mary Jivan, apparantly.
    Still, the mystery remains – did she or didn’t she? Die, that is.

    and those jokes from the other Jeevan are funny, no doubt about it.

  247. Lokesh says:

    I say chaps…thanks for the updates on all these important issues and of course who is who…anyone for zennis?

  248. prem martyn says:


    The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

    the ivor cutler classic .. the happy song

  249. prem martyn says:


    The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

    a hero of the moment

  250. prem bubbie says:

    s.d. You say”… some complete idiots tried that in Antelope oregon – and look how it ended up”. S.D. Why do you omit one of those idiots was Osho himself, he had full knowledge and gave his blessing to what went on in Antelope… please stop with the half-truths!! That has been THE Biggest issue with the sannyasin world from the very inception… it continues today with the half-wits Shanatm, Prakash, anand, et.al. now even you. If you’re going to take two steps forward, then be smart, don’t continually take 3 steps back… Or- is it you just are stuck being in denial… pick something else to get attached to

  251. frank says:

    ..or a round of zolf…..
    a zwim perhaps…
    a game of zootball…

    its better than zex….

  252. prem bubbie says:

    lokesh, the brand of cyanide capsules chinmaya bought, were recently recalled do to false claims made by the manufacturer on its effectiveness when used. no wonder why the guy is still hanging around.

  253. frank says:

    hey bob,lokesh,bubbie,
    how about a round of zenocide?

  254. prem bubbie says:

    bob- how do you know this guy krishna prem from canada was a gay guy turned straight? Did you blow him? Did you girlfriend shag him after his so-called conversion? Easy to pin labels like that, dude, after he’s dead; then that’s what we all are doing here anyway— another poster who has recently had a lobotomy. happy holidays… pass the eggnog

  255. prem bubbie says:

    frank: zeig heil!!!

  256. bob says:

    not interested frank.
    i haven’t even begun my career yet.

  257. prem bubbie says:

    tip toe thru zee tulips…. ziny zim

  258. prem bubbie says:

    zex– i’d love to catch herpes zimplex… does wonders for the skin.

  259. bob says:

    bubbs, just open info from all the reviews of his book by other sannyasins.
    the subtitle is A Tale of Sexual and Spiritual Transformation.
    didn’t read the book yet though.

  260. frank says:

    was he cured of his gayness by doing osho meditations?
    from zodomy to zuperconsciousness?

  261. prem martyn says:

    you are all lozers

  262. bob says:

    Sun Tzu says:

    let the adversary play their camp games and entertainments.
    soon they must sleep.
    then attack.

  263. bob says:

    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  264. frank says:

    camp games?
    were they gay,too?

  265. frank says:

    btw did you hear the one about the gay zen master?

  266. prem bubbie says:

    Aren’t most generals gay anyway? The can’t make it with women so they find another guy to screw…. I wonder if there were any “buddhas” during SunTzu’s time that tried to convert him? He loved those “exploding” cannons too much to switch over.

  267. prem bubbie says:

    Frank- that zo zuper fucking cool!! you’re not Zewish by chance?

  268. bob says:

    Sun Tzu, in The Art of War, says:

    When the enemy advances, retreat.
    When the enemy retreats, pursue.

  269. prem bubbie says:

    bob– zo– zis guy wrote a book, eh? Another subtitle; ” How to zipper up when a guy’s around, and how to let it hang when a ma rubs you the right way”.

  270. prem bubbie says:

    Bob– another way of saying that is “Run, catch, Kiss”– for all of you soldiers boys out there.

  271. prem martyn says:

    its zannyas but not as we knowz it captain zirk

  272. bob says:

    Sun Tzu says:

    the only way to ensure victory in battle is
    to know that victory is certain
    before commencement of action.
    then begin.

  273. frank says:

    so this sun tzu guy was a match-fixer,then?

    he should have studied the indian zicket league.
    he woulda made a killing…

  274. bob says:

    Sun Tzu was a Taoist.

  275. prem martyn says:

    bubbie

    can you describe the moment when all searching stopped…
    and the univarse poured into you

  276. frank says:

    a redneck kicked him up the bass chakra and the energy flew up his back and out of his ten gallon hat…
    ride em in rawhide..!

  277. frank says:

    alexander the “great” was gay.
    but more interestingly,not a lot of people know this,but he was an alcoholic.
    and by the end he was so out of it that he and his army got lost in the desert of what is now s.pakistan..
    half his men died including him,and he ran out of booze
    what a way to go…the delirium trmens lost in the desert!
    not so great really.
    he shoulda stayed cruising on the nude beach with diogenes…..
    cynics always get the last laugh….

  278. bob says:

    Alexander should have listened to Sun Tzu:

    It is the business of a general
    to be serene and inscrutable,
    impartial and self-controlled.

    He should be capable
    of keeping his officers and men
    in ignorance of his plans.

  279. Lokesh says:

    Some really good ones, but zenocide is zensational.

  280. frank says:

    white rogue brothers hate the paki marble kissers
    and vice versa
    kwaichang bob hates the tibs and vice versa

    sounds like
    zenophobia all round.

    or is that the fear of sitting silently doing nothing?

  281. Satya Deva says:

    prem bubbie:

    s.d. You say”… some complete idiots tried that in Antelope oregon – and look how it ended up”. S.D. Why do you omit one of those idiots was Osho himself, he had full knowledge and gave his blessing to what went on in Antelope… please stop with the half-truths!! That has been THE Biggest issue with the sannyasin world from the very inception… it continues today with the half-wits Shanatm, Prakash, anand, et.al. now even you. If you’re going to take two steps forward, then be smart, don’t continually take 3 steps back… Or- is it you just are stuck being in denial… pick something else to get attached to

    SD:
    I have no issue with this, Bubbie, I’m not one who says Osho was ‘perfect’, I reckon he made a few mistakes all right, including the whole policy re Antelope, if indeed he approved of it.

    But in what you’re quoting from I wasn’t actually focusing on Osho, rather on the matter of ‘taking over the world’, in answer to Bob.

    So I suggest you pay more attention to context as you seem to be usually so fired-up you’re ready to virtually combust should you get the merest whiff of something you strongly object to!

    Otherwise, as I said, no worries.

  282. Satya Deva says:

    Now here’s something…Imagine – knowing not the slightest fear…Nothing to do with any ‘spiritual state’ though, just a non-functioning gland….

    Fearless woman ‘lucky to be alive’

    A woman who knows no fear because of damage to a key emotion centre in her brain is lucky to be alive, scientists have said.

    The US woman, known only as SM, lives in a poor and dangerous neighbourhood and has been the victim of numerous crimes.

    Over the years she has shrugged off being held at knife and gunpoint, death threats, and assaults, and was once nearly killed by an act of domestic violence.

    Yet even when her life was in peril her behaviour “lacked any sense of desperation or urgency”, said researchers. She was simply unafraid.

    In tests for which she gave her consent, SM showed no hint of fear when exposed to snakes and spiders, during a trip to one of the world’s scariest haunted houses, or while watching clips of spine-chilling horror films.

    But other emotions such as happiness and sadness remained entirely intact.

    SM suffers from a rare condition that has destroyed her amygdala, an almond-shaped region of the brain strongly linked to fear reactions.

    Reporting on her case in the journal Current Biology, US scientists said this had left her vulnerable to walking into dangerous situations.

  283. prem martyn says:

    Bubbie destroys his amygdala every night…and he’ll be having it progressively removed by excessive discounts in the Walmart Liquor store in the run up to Xmas.

  284. Satya Deva says:

    Correction: Not a gland, but part of the brain.

    Googling ‘amygdala’ tonight brought me by chance to something called The Linden Method, an apparently simple self-help programme which claims to eliminate anxiety, including chronic and high states, plus a whole host of other maladies, eg IBS, OCD (obsessive compulsive), PTSD (post-traumatic syndrome).

    The guy says there have been NO failures from 138,000 clients!!

    I must say I’m impressed by the promo page:

    http://www.thelindenmethod.co.uk/

    Mentioning it here in case someone somewhere might benefit, perhaps via one of us passing it on….

  285. prem martyn says:

    I looked at the site and i’m worried sick…
    I also have 9384 friends on facebook…..which is panicking me for the Xmas card send out.

    but sure if anyone is worried or suffers from being alive .. i’ll tell them there’s a cure.

    late night browsing is a worrying condition…

  286. prem bubbie says:

    Almost got it Frank- I yelled- “Y-A-H-O-O” “ride ‘em cowboy”… That’s where Hollywood got the idea for “Brokeback Mountain” or was it, “Deliverance”? “Squeal for me boy!!”

  287. prem bubbie says:

    Alexander the Great was a moonshiner too… he invented Ouzo…. also, he never left his friendz behind after a night of boozing…. it helped with the zaddle zores

  288. prem bubbie says:

    yes, S.D. i read that too, but another researcher was interviewed and said there was another person with the same condition but had “normal” fear responses. It might be, according to the researcher, a matter of when that part of the brain is destroyed, if it happened before, during or after it’s development…. now this is science at its best… even osho had no knowledge of this while he was lecturing… so he’s out of date on a lot of things… a point i’ve made repeatedly… and something the fools who post here who think osho’s the ultimate in mystics don’t want to hear. “Be in the now”, kept current keep discovering…. Shantam, Prakash, Anurgrah, anand and the rest just don’t seem to get it.

  289. Lokesh says:

    Ali the Great introduced opium to Iran…so now we know it was all his fault.

  290. prem bubbie says:

    and S.D. it’s all mental… a.k.a. biological just more proof nature doesn’t want enlightened beings running around in the billions…. the cards have always been stacked against us… so why bother?

  291. prem bubbie says:

    S.D. if you want to eliminate anxiety just borrow some cyanide pills from chinmaya, it’s cheaper and easier than some self-help program, or move to Goa and hang out with Brian R., he’ll bore the anxiety right out of you.

  292. anugrah says:

    Sannyasnews chief editor and readers

    Sarjano’s topic that lennon was in love with osho is not authentic .

    If lennon loved osho or not , it should have any importance right now.

    There are millions who loved osho , so let lennon be on of them . One should not give too much importance to centrain loves.
    osho said in public that he is intimate to all of us equelly.
    I often seen some new sannyasins look at long time sannyasins higther than them. and also have seen old sannyasins who were with osho when he was in body playing games with newcomers to osho
    i strongly belive that neither satsang leaders from sannyasins are doing the right thingh nor the once who go to listen to them .
    osho is availble in forms of books,cd, dvd, and many other sources for everyone more easily than ever, then why this guru . disple game among osho sannyasins. i condenm this satsang gatherings. going to satsang is like reducing yourself to sheep .Indian and western like dolano,shaliendra, etc etc sannyasins of osho who are giving satsang both needs to calm down and find other way to make a living.

  293. anugrah says:

    If lennon loved osho or not, it should not have any importance right now in 2010.
    We sannyasins are facing much more issues like satsangs, politics among us.
    It also makes me pissed off when someone talks about copyrights without knowing ABC of politics behind it .
    what is going on with sannyasins is easy to know vai intrenet and websites, and facebook , but it is more important to know WHY sannyasins have come to this state of mind

  294. prem bubbie says:

    Dear Sannyasnews editors: please ignore anugrah’s blathering posts…. he is not functioning with a full deck… it has been suggested by some that he also poses as a “sannyasin”, but is in fact a catholic priest sent by the vatican to infiltrate the sannyas community and cause trouble and dissension . We are watching you,anugrah.

  295. prem bubbie says:

    oh, btw merry xmas

  296. shantam says:

    Anugrah,
    In the present circumstances, when Jayesh has become the defacto successor of OSho and has eliminated every element which is not fitting to his sense of spirituality, People feel free to pursue their course of action.
    It is a protest and indifferance at the same level.
    Is it not funny that majority of the sannyasins have become like Kurdish in the Turkish terriotory, The Creme of Indian sannyasins who dared to Love Osho from 1970 onwards are wandering around Like Roma Gypsies…If few thousand people get initiated into Sannyas per year, it is because of these middle class Indians..and it is an act of great courage on the part of sannyas takers because dozens of live, breathing gurus are in the market with fan following in hundreds of thousands.

    Meditations, discourses, Gibberish in the evening and seems like it does not give senstivity to the Ego but a uranium kind of refinement so that you can destroy your opponent with Poison, rightly named Godliness…

    Just 12 years before, hundreds of western sannyasins have rented the flats in Pune on long term basis, before the real estate boom happened, sannyasins were searching for the properties to buy.
    Were they snatching money from Ashram treasury, on the contrary they were pouring their money and craft in the ashram devlopment.
    After Osho..His sannyasins were behaving with utmost responisbilty…
    Who made the policies so that these people leave Pune as it became Idi Ameen’s Uganada..

    So the people have all their justifed right to go their way, whether as satsang giver or as participants in the activites around their home cities.

    Once an organised retail sector fails, everybody with a basket and bicycle becomes enterpreneour…

    Sannyasins have come to this state of mind because the the King is not subject to humility.

  297. shantam says:

    The way many sannyas news contributors write shows also that Sannyas has become a creation of some banana repubic.
    as there is a lack of credible and inspiring leadership, every ego bag becomes war lord.
    A street cat named Martyn asked another cat named Bubbie, ” Why you are lying with legs spread?”

    Bubbie replied, ” because this evening when elephant will pass, my legs will make him fall. Is this not clever, the way we cats are suppose to be.”

  298. shantam says:

    Bubbie why the fuck marry Xmas
    the saviour lord of your ancestors and your country and civilisation was hanged to death thousands of years ago. Was this in Iran or Iraq?

    Are there no other human being so inspiring, so to the point of truth that few other days could also be added in the list of festivites with religious flavour..

  299. shantam says:

    Yesterday evening i have bought Xmas tree, will it reinfoce my identity and devotional type?

    My brain is unable to understand the dual mechanism of the western seekers who because of the fashion of their time, became sannyasins too..

    The same people will lead a protest march if something happens to their village Church, even though they visit the church only during the time of Burial or lease based marriage!

    Do these people don’t feel a sense of moral and emotional responisbity to complain when their Master’s birthday and last day celebrations are scrapped from the calender of Osho Pune…

    The dictate of the boss says, we will have the winter celebration form 3rd till7th of december so tha 11th of december does not get highlighted.
    Why he does not show the guts to claim we will celebrate New year on 19th of january…
    it will show more courage to break away from the collective conventions….

  300. prem martyn says:

    because he’s an alcoholic and gets pissed up over new year….

  301. prem martyn says:

    http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/publicite-en-b7ffc1c76c4260dbeda4b052552cfc6a.html

    this years xmas message from shantam….a short trailer..

  302. Lokesh says:

    Anugrah, what you have to understand is that although you live in a thoughrally unenlightened state it might not be the same for everyone. It is like you can’t stand the idea of someone waking up to their true spiritual identity. You were probably in the crowd when they stoned Mansoor and stood around when Jesus Christ had his moment of doubt in faith. Why, you probably made damned sure that Pilot washed his hands and sealed his fate. Yes, that is you alright.
    What is puzzling me is the nature of your game. Why become affiliated with a movement founded on the idea of people awakening when the very thought of such a thing abhors you so much?

  303. shantam says:

    when the collective energy in the world is focused on manufacturing goods and gadgets and consuming them so that the ambitious clout of China, India and US become the role model of the other countries, values like compassion, sharing, lazying around; the ASHRAM( anti dote to Shram, the labour) have taken a back seat…very down on the laundry basket…

    If i have a xmas message for My fellow sannyasins, it will be to make the managers of OFI and OIF realise that it is a right time for Summit conferance..

    Risolve your differances, enhance your limited understanding of Osho with your counterparts…Make a new bigining so that Osho looks like a tree with all round growth.

    Nine months of work and three months of meditative holidays in Pune, Goa, Dharamshala…Let Osho people do something which inspires the world…

  304. prem martyn says:

    shantam dont mention the word ‘growth’… its bad for business…..look what happened last time….

  305. prem martyn says:

    shantam .. i have an allergy to nuts…. is that why i find you so indigestible…

    ps

    anugrah… apart from laughter there is no truth…

    dolano was nuts…she fed two swans from the west for her whole tenure at the ashram.

    The story of the swans.
    I asked my girlfriend at the time to tell mukta, osho’s housewife, that white european swans do not belong in a pond with their wings clipped being fed bread and stripped of their natural inclinations to migrate etc.
    Little Greek Mukta, tore a strip off from my then girlfriend ,by shouting ‘do you know better than your master…? I was in UK at time and would have faced her down, had i been there….Anyway.. these weren’t the first two swans .. the original two had been asphyxiated wrapped in bubble wrap on their aeroplane journey to the master…
    So cut to Dolano..
    the German orphan with the hitlerian accent was feeding the swan(s) one day….
    so i went up to her casually.. and said oh so there’s only one left… the other had died from being fed tidbits from passing sannyassins

    .. and the swan was going round and round its 20 cm pond…i pointed to this repetitive stress behaviour and said.. she’s going round and round and bobbing her head up and down… dolano replied..
    acch so see she loves ze sufi virling in ze buddha hall..
    i realized then that the swan was blessed to be in the masters house…
    (and pull the other one its got bells on it)

    Now then Dolano has set up a cat home these days for all the koregaon park cats.. which is probably a good thing if they neuter them…but as a swan keeper she rates amongst the most devotedly ( blind) idiotic you could come across.
    and mukta found that a certain terence stamp preferred his danish model girlfriend from the west than having Osho put him to share a room with mukta… poor dear old mukta currently on the where am i group….

    as far as satsangs go…its not against osho to be self realized… but i’d rather someone else gets enlightened ..I’d miss my sexstarvedego too much…and would have to talk bollox for a profession.. and i’m only an amateur at that….

  306. Satya Deva says:

    prem bubbie:

    and S.D. it’s all mental… a.k.a. biological just more proof nature doesn’t want enlightened beings running around in the billions…. the cards have always been stacked against us… so why bother?

    SD:
    My take on this, bubbie, is that there’s a huge qualitative difference between finding yourself ‘fearless’ by an ‘accident’, like the American woman of yesterday’s Yahoo article, and becoming free from fear through growing in consciousness, ie through one’s own efforts (plus any ‘Grace’ that might come your way, of course)…

    But sure, you might well be absolutely right, that any so-called ‘way to ‘enlightenment isn’t ‘natural’, it’s rather a case of somehow going against much that we have been led to believe is ‘normal’ , ie unconscious reactivity from day one of our lives…

    Funny old game, life….

  307. prem martyn says:

    enlightenment is the subjective realization of an objective truth which requires no subjective maintenance for its existence.

    accessing this condition is achievable through reason, logos or consciousness aligning or attuning itself to itself…

    having said that…
    it wont necessarily get you a better shag….

    was there bubbieness before bubbie….otherwise where does bubbieness arise from…

    farting in the wind?

  308. shantam says:

    For centuries monks ans nunns were meditating and praying in Monestries all around the world, today also millions of people spend their life in prayer, meditation, virtue and service compared to them new age seekers from Osho, Ramana, Punji belt have done not a very laborious work and still the hankering for enlighenment and the desire to be known as a enlightend mystic is touching the mountains top.
    As i see the world of Osho, those who could not become therapists became enlightend, and Indians are on the front line in this nobel profession, it is natural too, they have more Osho stories from Hindi literature also, to copy in their brain cells….

    No wonder, the world at large looks at this phenomenon with disbain and disbelief.

    What centuries did with the words God and Love, we have contaminated Enlighenement in two three decades time..

  309. anugrah says:

    Lokesh , i was reading twice your post , can not understand it . Try again in diffrent way your point.

  310. prem martyn says:

    better to have fun shantam,, eh ?
    or at least more accessible and spontaneous …

  311. prem martyn says:

    you have to look for god in the right places..


    The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

  312. Lokesh says:

    Anugrah, you give the impression through your comments that you don’t actaully like the idea of people becoming enlightened and turning into masters in their own right. Shantam is also running on a similar dim-witted programme, hence his constant slurs on other spiritual teachers or sannyasins who have continued with other teachers after Osho left this world. A kind of dull mentality that says someone is missing Osho’s teaching or being traitorous by approaching another master. It is kid’s stuff and can be fun to have a laugh about for a while but after some time it becomes tedious because you realize it is all just a very dumb ego trip in a pseudo-spiritual disguise.

  313. prem martyn says:

    or rainer maria rilke set to music..


    The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

  314. Satya Deva says:

    Two gems there, Martyn, thanks.

  315. prem bubbie says:

    and those farts in the wind… are vegetable based farts better than meat based? P.M. only an enlightened master knows for sure…. Skol

  316. prem bubbie says:

    it’s so nice to piss off shantam… does he have a brain after all? 6:5 odds against… and those are Vegas odds!!!!

  317. prem bubbie says:

    hey P.M.- Sheela, nursing old farts who can’t fight back; Dolano nursing old dogs who can’t bite back- is this some sort of pattern developing with old, washed up, and deranged sannyasins? Hmmm… what say you Shantam?

  318. prem bubbie says:

    shantam– merry xmas and a happy hanukkah to you. Has osho klaus left the north pole yet to make his yearly delivery of presents? “He knows when you’ve been bad or good, so be good for goodness sake”….. Sheela held a meeting prior to Osho’s b’day in 1982, there she claimed “Bhagwan knows what we were doing at all times”, that “we had to work hard and not goof off”… she then proceeded to tell a story to justify her claim…. Ruling with Fear.

  319. prem bubbie says:

    shantam- you sound like you want to start your own cult…. go for it man…. but i think you’d have more success in your legal profession than with an ashram. I don’t think the white European chicks would be turned on. that would be your ultimate goal now, getting white chicks to shag on a daily basis… no Swiss girls girls though. ciao

  320. prem martyn says:

    bubbie .. i presume you are referring to darwins wife’s (henrietta) unknown apocalyptic writings in your question… published posterhumously..
    .is it ‘Survival of the Fartest’ to which you allude above.?….i quote

    ” …. my fondest husband, wherewithal he conspires to transform the world by his voluminous study , such that he is known at the Royal Academy as Dar-wind…. was particularly active well after dinner with vouluminous gases of his own, bequeathed unto us in the narrowness of the retiring room from whence both our serving maid ,together with our two fair daughters and herbert the wolfhound were forced to gather ourselves in haste and make for the corridor to escape the sad noxiousness of my dear husband’s lone survival techniques…”

    yes ,Bubbie i think you have a point worth investigating….

  321. prem bubbie says:

    P.M. I’ll drink to that….Skol… I’m getting warmed up for the holiday parties, I thought i’d start here…. hey Lokesh, can you send me a bottle of your 50 year old single malt scotch you have stashed. Wild Irish Rose isn’t cutting it for me anymore.

  322. prem martyn says:

    dont miss Shantam at Aldi and Lidl playing Santa Osho
    for those of you who scrolled past it the first time i highly recommend
    the trailer…

    http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/publicite-en-b7ffc1c76c4260dbeda4b052552cfc6a.html

    Devotion at its Xmassy best .. Dresdener algemeine Zeitung

    A stunning underachievement for all the family ……Indo-Pak Cornershop Tribune

    He appears as Osho and Santa all in one.. only a few thousand tickets left .. hurry…
    Pune (as it used to be) Times

    He made all the kids cry when he showed his devotion .. Deutsche Polizei Digest

  323. Satya Deva says:

    bubbie:
    Sheela held a meeting prior to Osho’s b’day in 1982, there she claimed “Bhagwan knows what we were doing at all times”, that “we had to work hard and not goof off”… she then proceeded to tell a story to justify her claim…. Ruling with Fear.

    SD:
    Sounds very much like the kind of bullshine priests control their ‘flock’ with – or that teachers or parents of a similar bent try to stuff into their kids’ heads….

  324. Satya Deva says:

    Osho Birthday in Delhi

    That’s surely where you should be, Shantam – isn’t it?!!

  325. Satya Deva says:

    Oh, link didn’t come through – it’s at the SN Noticeboard, clips of Dec 11 Celebration in Delhi….

  326. Lokesh says:

    Bubbie, it has been one of those intense days on a number of levels and now that you mention it I really wish I had a good bottle of single malt stashed aroon the hoose…. but I don’t. Whenever I come home with a bottle of the guid stuff it somehow manages to disappear very pronto. Have to get a couple of bottles in for the festive season.
    Thanks for the reminder. All work and no play is making me a dull boy…I will have to change that.

  327. prem martyn says:

    if osho was unaware of what sheela was up to… then he deserves the nobel lifetime oscar award for the guru with no relevant awareness awareness award…

  328. prem martyn says:

    the man whose lifetime mission was to interfere in other peoples lives.. didnt suspect anyone would do the same to his …

    duhhhhhhhh

  329. prem bubbie says:

    Lokesh: i guess I’ll just have to summon Alexander the Great spirit and ask him to turn some water into Ouzo for me…. times a wasting… gotta go, strip down, and dance around the fire and chant… can’t keep Ouzo boy waiting.

  330. prem bubbie says:

    i wonder what kind of guy Osho would have been if instead of huffing nitrous, he sipped some single malt Scotch- slowly. I could see him entering buddha hall in kilts!!– with a bag pipe to boot!!!

  331. Lokesh says:

    I just happen to know that Osho’s previous incarnation was that of Robert Burns. Here is some quotes. You will sense Osho’s presence immediately.

    “Dare to be honest and fear no labor.”

    “The heart and benevolent and kind the most resembles God.”

    And last but not least….
    “Oh, my luve’s like a red, red rose, That’s newly sprung in June; Oh, my luve’s like the melodie That’s sweetly played in tune”

  332. prem martyn says:

    i wish there was an organisation calling for
    the Prevention of Interference by Middle-aged Bourgeois Therapists in Other Younger People’s lives under the Banner of Insightful Growth for Profit by way of osho, cos No-One would Give Them the Time of Day Otherwise….

    wait a minute….
    what a good idea
    it might work … but it needs a shorter name.. an acronym….
    how about

    the Pith of Lerve-and-Your-Money..at-your-Emotional Expense while we Watch.

    or the not very Humaniversity

    its simple but possibly quite effective…
    get an ad campaign going and presto we’ll be er… rich???
    Say its a charity with all proceeds going to the inner circle of 21.. to help them stock large amounts of alcohol for the winter season meetings…

    ps Latest news from the inner circle meetings…

    Following mounting public pressure for accountability the inner circle have decided to publish their meetings in full.
    see here:

    Xmas preparation Meeting.. 21 members present (one comatose)
    ……………………………………..
    The inner circle have decided yet again to cancel Xmas. Everyone was in agreement.
    Wholesale supplies of Sodexo Fine Malt Brew will be given out to all members of the 21 for the not Xmas festivities. Members have unanimously agreed to donate all their Sodexo hooch to Doc Amrito’s for safe keeping and no questions asked.
    The 21 have further agreed to keep any other meetings completely secret because its the only way to help the planet and save it from a bunch of self appointed wankers like us getting into power.

  333. Shahriar says:

    You all may want to join the discussion taking place on the latest article.

  334. prem martyn says:

    following recent scurrillous comments without foundation here on SN, the editors wish to point out that there is no intention of misrepresentation of any association , club or religion and any likeness between names is purely fictional..
    the editors wish also to point out that they really really apologise this time and it wont happen again because we dont want to have to repeatedly apologise, or end up like mr assange…

    :)

  335. Shahriar says:

    This is an email I sent to Dr. Leonard Peikoff, the legal and intellectual heir of Ayn Rand who runs a podcast among other activities and shows how Ayn Rand’s philosophy of Objectivism applies to practial issues of the day. I asked him what he think of the Wikileaks affair and Julian Assange. He was very busy with questions so he had a teacher of Objectivism Tore Boeckmann answer my question. His response is reproduced below.

    Leonard Peikoff writes:

    Thank you for sending a question, and an appropriate one, to my podcast.

    Unfortunately, I am being inundated by questions at present, and on the show
    can deal only with a fraction of them. I do not, however, want to leave
    questioners such as yourself without any guidance. So Tore Boeckmann, a
    longtime student and teacher of Objectivism, has kindly agreed to help out.
    Because of the abundance of questions, Mr. Boeckmann can of course give only
    a brief indication of the Objectivist answer. But he and I hope that this
    will be of value to you in your future thinking.

    Let me say that I do not myself see any of Mr. Boeckmann’s answers, which
    are entirely his own, but that I have great confidence in his knowledge and
    intellectual ability.

    Leonard Peikoff

    Re your question below:

    There is no such thing as the right to publish U.S. military and
    intelligence secrets — that is, secrets vital to the protection of the
    individual rights of Americans given the threat of force from abroad. As
    soon as Assange announced his intention to publish such military secrets (as
    opposed to diplomatic cocktail party gossip) the U.S. government should have
    put a stop to it, by any means necessary.

    Tore Boeckmann

  336. Satya Deva says:

    I really don’t know why you bother to stick around here, Shahriar, neither why you are ‘interested’ in Osho.

    Osho was not a ‘philosopher’, nor a ‘politician’, which seems to be how you like to interpret him.

    As such, you are completely missing the point.

    Btw, beware of anything ending in ‘ism’ – it’s ultimately just another chain around the neck, just another refuge for the mind.
    In your case, just another means for you to feel like ‘somebody’ who actually ‘knows something’, when, esp at your age, you clearly know very little.

    Just another ego-trip.