The Master – Disciple relationship – is it right to cover it up within the Osho Movement
I am sure countries outside of India have their own traditions of spiritual learning. Before Christianity covered the whole market space, there must have been many small mystical schools of both the occult or prayer based. Did they disappear in past times like small shop keepers who cannot bear the competition from the super stores, or was there some hostile takeover?
With an increase in education, customer satisfaction with Christianity is on the decline, even though their managers(priests) are trying their best to reinvent their services. So it looks like small schools of thoughts, prayer and occult are again resurfacing in the form of spiritual boutiques; like the limited edition designer clothes for the elites.
My query is in the development of Master-Disciple relationship in the west in context of Osho.
As I see it, teacher and pupil, professor and student relations get confused with the Master disciple format. In a Master disciple relation some kind of emotional involvement is a required ingredient. One can have a low sugar ice cream but to make it salty….???
I think this is the cause of Osho’s declining movement. Think tank around Osho has the good intentions, they don´t want people to get sugar addicted and suffer with diabetes. The failed Christian model encourage them to reduce an emotional and sentimental bond with Osho, as the possibility to get stuck is always there. So the movement courts a kind of catch 22 situation – they want to grow and spread, yet in the last one decade Osho movement has taken a deep declining trend.
Is it not like selling salty ice cream?
My suggestion is not to feel overly worried with the mind´s good intentions and concerns. Trust in the intelligence of people and the power of Osho´s words, just offer your services as a good manager. Osho has done enough invention work. Let this work find its space in the big global arena and not dressed up in some counter culture which hides the Master-disciple basis of the work.
Shantam
As soon as I’d read the first paragraph of this opening to a new thread, I knew immediately that our beloved Shantam Prem had penned it. His none-too-clever metaphors give my literary bullshit meter panic attacks.
Who exactly is being addressed here? And I quote: ‘Let this work find its space in the big global arena and not dressed up in some counter culture which hides the Master-disciple basis of the work.’
I suspect this comment is being addressed to whoever is running the resort in Poona,(Shantam’s pet subject) but I do not know for sure, so how is anyone else supposed to know?
Shantam says: Osho has done enough invention work.
Once again it is none to clear what this invitation work encapsulates, but for want I want to point out right now it will suffice to say that it was Osho’s invitation to move in, to move away from the 3D world and reclaim the fourth dimension which brings with it our connectivity to all and everything.
Shamtam can relax. Osho’s mission on that level was a huge success. If you bare with be I will give you a very good example by describing a situation I found myself in six days ago.
I was visiting a northern European city the other day and over early morning coffee I studied the public services section of a local newspaper. There was a small add saying that visitors were welcome at a spiritualist church meeting that would that very evening be hosting a well known medium.
Western culture is gripped by object proliferation and worship and when in the midst of it I always yearn to commune with those interested in inner values so, clutching at spiritual straws, I went off to the spiritualist church.
The congregation of about fifty contained a fair cross section of misfits but when the medium gave a short introduction about herself I was impressed. The curator of the church stood up and set the ball rolling.
‘Good evening’ she said, employing a slightly echoey mike, ‘I’d like to read something from a wonderful book I’ve discovered. It is titled ‘Gold Nuggets’ and it is by an Indian master called ‘Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh.’
Now then, being close to the artic circle, a spiritual wasteland, I was blown out of my thermo boots upon heraing this, like ‘What the ….!’
The lady continued and as it happened she had lost the place she’d marked and said, ‘I will just open the book and read whatever page I come to. She did just that and within two minutes the entire congregation was laughing their heads off, because the page the woman opened the book at was Osho going on about how it was time for women to reclaim their social standing and I have to admit it was very well put and humourous, The woman who was reading had to stop reading because she could not control her laughter.
For me it was a wonderful opening to a very interesting evening.
The point is, that there is no longer a need to wave an Osho flag in order to bring his work to as Shantam puts it, quote’ the big global arena’- That has already happened.
People who feel the need to ‘spread the word’ are actually counter productive to what I believe Osho would have wished, because they come across like New Age Jehovah’s witnessess.
The best advert for any kind of spiritual movement is in the way you interact with people and who you are,,,,as opposed to what you say. I often meet people and within a short time they often ask, are you one of Osho’s people and I reply, ‘Yeah, I am. How did you guess?’
Often enough they answer, ‘There is something about you that I can’t quite put my finger on. How lucky you are to have spent time with Osho while he was alive.’
You know, in certain moments of clarity, I do believe they are right. And if you have taken the time to read this I think you will catch my transcendental drift.
I found ‘No Water, No Moon’ in the Catholic Central Library, London.
And not only that, ‘No Water, No Moon’ is a great book.
alleluia….
get it back on the streets and away from boozed up corporationists,
dhal-bearded neo-hindu fanatics,
who started doing gibberish in `88 and havent stopped yet,and can`t tell the difference between the witness and a jehovah`s witness…..
and some of these characters like anand ,who after 35 years of being on the ashram scene display all the joi-de-vivre of a guy with a prickly pear permanently stuck up his ass……
The relationship between the Master and disciple is a beautiful phenomenon.
Like the relationship of two eyes, they blinktogather, move together, cry togather, see things together and sleep together. Even though they never see each other.
Similarly, though, they are two bodies, Master and Disciple, yet deep down, they both are at one level and that level is the Bliss. Disciple is future and the Master is the Past, as regards to the journey on the path of blissfulness.
Lokesh is one of those doctors who check his pulse to gauge the tempreture of others. May be it is a very British attitude.
Dr. Amrito is of the same generation of socio psycho conditoning, as Lokesh is. Frustrated, educated middle class British who went to India because some book of a Chrishmatic Indian was calling their higher potential and now..they behave as if they are the Masters of human longing for spiritual oneness.
Sorry bro, you are good for yourself, may be you can find the right medicine for you in the bathroom shelf but not good enough to integrate every specialisation.
When a GP has the longing to be neuro surgeon, first he should bring himself again in the school. This is not the case with you, Uncle Lokesh.
And dear Frank… you are a class one satirst, but a compunder in the General practioner´s clinic
Nothing bad…i can even say..compounder who give injection without pain.
on the other side, i must say Lokesh, you have penned the first comment with your best prose.
AGain i wan to nudge you to write a thread. Face the censor of the editor and than let readers decide.
But i hope you keep your self focused with Osho, till the time you was with Him. Osho and His river has taken many curves after Poona one.
When someone like you at the insistance of his wife finds Buddhafield has shifted from Pune to Lukhnow in 1990, has no moral authority to judge the Pune phase, its development and its internal conflicts.
I hope you will show some humbleness to accept this.
Lokesh, To give a new trun to our discussion, i humbly request you to BE MY GUEST IN MY FLAT IN PUNE for 2 weeks. Go to the Osho Resort as if you are coming to 17, Koregaon Park, Pune first time. Participate in few activities whole heartily, specially the white robe evening meeting.
After word as a comparative study tour visit any other ashram of your choice for the same amount of time; the ashram where Living enlightened person is there.
I will be interested in your scientific findings, because you seems to be one of those persons who is not hankering any more for personal counselling. The milieu, the interior, the surrounding people will also be appreciated.
The free Pane lodging and boarding invitation i want to offer to other co writers of me also , Be it Bubbie or Satya Deva.
What i want to convey is that my constant criticism of Ashram management is a calling for the total flowering and potential of that place. What Osho has left is a positive, creative. life affirmative “Chernobyl Atomic facility”.This needs to be high lighted not the Jacuzzi or Sauna.
thus spoke Frank……
I agree with Lokesh, that Osho has penetrated deep into most people’s live, who are on the so-called spiritual path.
And Shantam your criticism is most often directed towards the Osho Resort management team, but then on the other side would you acknowledge that they have done a great job with getting Osho into the marketplace with book publications, YouTube, Osho.com website, facebook etc. and that with a very small and dedicated team?
And If the Jayesh team with Yogendra and Amrito promote heavy the Zen anti religion path, there is still White Robe Meditation, maroon robes and Osho’s full meditation program alive and kicking at the Resort and now updated with a new Basho fitness facility. What is so bad about this?
And after closing down all Osho celebration days, a new festival season seems to be born, monsoon festival, winter festival……
I booked my ticket and will be there for my 36th year visit and do not mind at all that Frank, Bubbie and Prem Luke are not there. Please do not invite them!
Shantam, thanks for the offer, and who knows I may one day take you up on it. Unfortunately, I have some very pressing medical related engagements that I will hve to deal with first.
What so ever Lokesh.. My invitation is stand by.
Take also Ma Prita with, for a nostalgic honeymoon for seeker couple.
Preferable time December-January, whenEurope is freezing, warm Indian sun in an atmosphare of western comfort simply gives a feeling of east and west merger, after all we are all one..on that 4D, you have talked about.
Potatos and tomatoes cooked together, complimenting each other.
(even when i have tears of gratitude for the people who are there and people who have a longing to be there, i cann´t stop my bloody metaphors.)
Osho’s work is being done. It does not have to be some kind of evangelical thing. Osho was a mystic who used nitrous oxide, not so many are ready for the whiff of that kind of energy.
Master-disciple is indeed a dangerous Indian paradigm as many lose themselves, and their own discrimination and judgement in it. Osho did use the paradigm, and rather freely sometimes. But he also seemed to disclaim it in the last five years of his life, calling us “Friends” etc. Perhaps he saw Rajneeshpuram and its demise as an example of how the Master/disciple paradigm could be exploited by those who spoke in the Master’s name when he was in silence.
Lokesh, your anecdote from your visit to the Artic Circle was very heart felt and a gift. Perhaps as young frisky Shantam Prem says you should offer an article to the Editors here.
Nothing is appropriate / all is appropriate … A Master – Disciple relationship is a creation of man .. like all other relationships that man created … like marriage .. then divorce became a need for whatever reasons .. in some cases .. but all marriages don’t end in a bitter divorce … Master – Disciple is no different
Shantam, I just had lunch with Prita and told her of your kind offer and she said. ‘That could be fun.’
I have not been in Poona for almost thirty years and when I think of returning there number 17 is not what rings the bell for me but rather being reunited with one or two old Indian friends in the neighbourhood, if still alive. Still, I am sure that a visit to my old stomping ground would be an absolute blast.
Anand, what happened to you? You seem to have developed a very nasty streak. Some of your comments will definitely scare off those tender-hearted souls that Shantam is so concerned about. As for myself you can go on listening to the sound of one hand wanking for all eternity, but just to keep the old side up why not try having a little dignity. There is something of the snide schoolboy in you. No doubt part and parcel of your repressed homosexuality. I’ve mentioned it already but I’ll say it again. We fellow bloggers accept you as you are. Chug! Chug! Chug!
the master/disciple tradition is excellent.
i know a lot of people who have got enlightened from it,
just like that……..
a story…
a famous therapist,a disciple, went to his master .
the master asked him what his problem was..
well,my girlfriend wants it 10 times a day..
mmm..what is problem?
well,my other girlfriend also wants it ten times a day…
mmm..and….
well,my wife wants it ten times a day too.
i see,and…
also there is a girl in the tantra group,she also wants it ten times a day…
ok.and ….
acually,i am a little gay,as well,so i have a boyfriend who wants it ten times a day…
mm,i see..
well,actually,two boyfriends…
yes,but what exactly is the problem,said the master,by now a little irritated..
well,you see,i get black-outs when i have a wank…..
but joking aside,this story,told by the sufi mystic tumi kupaar,for me,sums up the master/disciple relationship perfectly…
a man goes to the doctor and says
“i`ve got a strawberry growing out of my head”
the doctor replies:
“i see,i`ll give you some cream to put on that…”
Lokesh, you are getting over sensitive. You cannot absorb a little of the medicine you are dishing out so freely to Shantam? Now you want me to be nice suddenly.
I am able to play both nice and nasty. Guess where I learned that?
I doubt beloved Prita will make it to Pune. But anyway all the best for your medical procedures. These things start popping up now.
anand,
you`ve been on jackassnews for a couple of years.
mostly you have traded insults with bubbie,your jungian shadow.and now lokesh.
i havent read one intelligent,funny,thoughtful or amusing comment from you in all that time.just a bit of name dropping,a few quotes and information dropping like you know about the resort and thatmakes you someone.
with that virtually nil contribution,you presume to judge who is “close and not close to osho”
36 years of meditation in buddhafield
the highest to which humanity can reach.
and that`s it…?
you miserable old fart!!!!
Heraclitus, thanks for the positivo feedback. I’ll see what I can come up with in the coming days. You must be coming up to your 1600 birthday.
Frank, that was a good absurdist joke…made me chuckle.
Anand, I don’t want you to do anything. I said that you have developed a nasty streak and I meant it. For a man of your years it seems that there are certain aspects of your commenting personality that come across as underdeveloped. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that you are not a particularly happy camper. It is up to you wether or not it is time to ‘DO’ something about this. My opinion is that you are a repressed homosexual and you would just make it easier on everyone concerned if you just came out of the closet and declared with a roar that you are gay. Anyway, it is none of my business, I only wanted to help (sniff), I won’t mention it again, dahling.
That’s funny I noticed that about Anand when i first met him last august on this site…. so… It took you guys all of this time to notice Anand? Keep on truckin’ baby!!!
Will someone please do something about Shantam Pee’s broken record… This guy’s first 4 posts- article included, seems to have been stuck on “repeat”…. Do you need a new keyboard S.P.-p? Are you a programmed robot planted by Hindu/Christian extremists specifically designed to “disrupt” Osho’s message? Or a Rajneesh plant to re-program sannyasins to instead follow him and make him Osho jr. the new king of Pune? Something really stinks, more than usual, by India’s standards.
Anand, I accept Shanatm’s offer and when I’m there I’ll be on the look out for a scraggly looking American being carry around by a dozen Mexicans in thongs. Better throw on some shoe polish for a disguise.
Bubbie, you are in America, can you contact Rockfeller institute, whether they can offer me a scholarship to write a path breaking thesis on you, ” Ant, Fly and Tantric Sex” preached and practised by a recluse yogi, Prem Bubbie.
When people eat love and pray from their asshole, in nutt shell they are called Bubbie, this lead character will never come on the screen for next 5000 years.
Will someone please do something about Shantam Pee’s broken record… This guy’s first 4 posts- article included, seems to have been stuck on “repeat”….
With a little brain in the head, you Bubbie could have writen something which over shadows my repetition.
But looks like American quality of self reliance is not in your system.
Are you R?
a story…
a famous therapist,a disciple, went to his master ….
Frank, I wonder where you have read this story/joke first time or it is your own creation.
It is a star joke.
Frank, I could not really care less about what you think about me. My level of communicating on the blog is a mirror to the general standard of the blogs here, so why bloat yourself?
Lokesh: you know I am not gay, talk to Bubbie…we share the same goat, when I am up in Oregon.
Bubbie: I am only a virtual American, my whole personality here is made up. You should know by now.
Like Lokesh I am doing mind training here in the mind fuck section of the Internet.
Yes Frank there is no help in sight. 32 years and still
fishing on the river here in Guatemala……
Osho talked about people around him being either students, disciples or devotees.
I found the disciple-master relationship as a very sacred thread and something which keeps evolving. The master is always present in some mysterious fathomable way and it does not need the physical presence for this.
At the very beginning, when I met Osho in the 70ties there was a moment of recognition and initiation, which made this connection very clear for me and unseparable.
Now 20 years later this connection feels even more strong. It is heart to heart and being to being and has been a blessing in all of my life so far.
S P. You’re still stuck with my “5,000 years” line…. stupid fool!!! “Eat, Love, Pray”, Now Shantam “Going with the Masses” Prem has latched onto Julia Roberts new movie!!! What else is new? Did anyone check out last night’s “The Daily Show with Jon Stewart”? – Comedy Central channel- you can watch it over the web… He had Lewis Black on– what a riot!! His comical piece was on that movie “Eat, Love, Pray”…. I was rolling on the floor!! Shantam, you should watch it for tips on how to tell a joke and take a joke…. Tough job, You Indians are a serious bunch.
Anand, you flipped your lid last august, when i told you i thought you wasted 35 years of meditating and being around osho. You’ve been fucking your mind good and hard for that time also. Enjoy
I do not know much about relationship between disple and master , but i know for sure that we all osho sannyasins have two basic responsiblities towards osho. first is to meditate every single day of life and second is keep the flame alive which osho left for us
“Going with the masses”, for hippy generation sannyasins, this seems to be the Niger Word.
A nun may not get that offended passing before a sex shop but masses for these semi educated Bubbies.
And Bubbie, even if Anand has wasted 35 years of his life meditatiing and being around Osho; this is none of your business, again bloody Hippy generation Cliche…generation after generation has wasted their life waiting for Jesus second coming.
Be thankful to that these masses, as their efforts have generated enough comfort for your kind of, not really earned retirement benefits.
Lewis Black at comedy cemtral channel.. Thanks to Bubbie. Just now.. first time i have seen some show of 2009. Just great.
May be i will also say what a riot, when i see His comical piece on that movie “Eat, Love, Pray”…
Thanks in advance for posting the link ( or everything one should search oneself)
Anand wrote :
“I found the disciple-master relationship as a very sacred thread and something which keeps evolving. The master is always present in some mysterious fathomable way and it does not need the physical presence for this.
…Now 20 years later this connection feels even more strong. It is heart to heart and being to being and has been a blessing in all of my life so far.”
My experience also. I probably would not be alive without this.
The ways of the mind are more in number than the grains of sand on a beach.
Sitting on the beach the other day I thought about this and concluded that the ways of the mind are infinite. In that infinity of possibilities could it not be the case that such ideas as, quoting from Anand, ‘The master is always present in some mysterious fathomable way’, are imagined?
I seem to remember Osho saying a few times that the relationship between a master and disciple is a rather one-sided affair and that the disciple is having an imagined relationship with someone who is not there—-the master having moved beyond the realm of ego-mind. So where does that leave the disciple? Could it be that it is all in the mind?
I’ve watched people I know suffer from senile dementia and when the mind goes down the drain there is nothing left that is recognizable of the person I once knew, accept of course the physical frame that once housed the personality. Viewing such things really pulls the metaphysical carpet out from under your spiritual feet. It is all very well talking about connections to gurus and spiritual concepts when you are in possession of (or in most cases possessed by) a functioning mind, but when that mind, which everyone is so keen on transcending, deterioates there is nothing left of the person that once was. How does the aspirational idea of enlightenment stand up in the face of Alzeimer’s disease. It is a question that you would do well to address because some of you will one day be faced with it on an existential level.
I take your points Lokesh and I do not know the answer.
Well…the old man used to say that when you reach a point of ‘not knowing’ you are half way there. But then again, it was sometimes difficult to tell if he was joking or not.
Look Osho is participating in the discussion(Lol)
Most of the times i have seen, one or another relevant quotation of Him passes through the eyes.
The is from Osho.com, everyday i open the site one time, for No thought of the day, few hundred quotations rotate, rest is all static.
No-Thought for the Day ®Copyright © 2010 Osho International Foundation
Just look, watch. What is your mind?
What is meant by the word mind? What exactly it consists of?
All your experiences…knowledge…past…accumulated ? that is your mind.
You may have a materialist mind, you may have a spiritualist mind,
it doesn´t matter a bit; mind is mind. The spiritual mind is as much mind as the materialist mind. And we have to go beyond mind.
MAster is always present in some mysterious way…
For more than two thosuand years, billions of souls have felt, Jesus has shown His presence in a mysterious ways, same is about Krishna , Rama, Buddha, Mohammad Sahib, Nanak etc.
In thick and thin of life, during the harshest whethers and hostile circumsatnces..This mysterious presence has pushed us beyond our limits of suffering.
Below is a heart rendering plea of a mother. See, how she is expressing the presence of God..
(www.tejasgaba.com)
Since MARCH 2009,we have no inkling of our son and also we have not heard anything from the kidnappers. Every time i see an unknown number flashing on my phone ,i get hopeful that it might be from the kidnappers. They might give me some news of my son or ask for some ransom. Even though its 1year and seven months, I strongly believe that one fine day he will come back home.
These 17 months God has been with me like a shadow, strengthening me every minute and i believe that he is also taking care of tejas……
Lokesh, if Nothingness meets Nothingness only Nothingness remains….
Dear Friends,
Reading your posts I am reminded of the blind men describing the elephant, each touching just one part of the animal. I would like to share with you many stories of how new people here continue to find Osho. Please read our free sample copy of the Viha Connection at
http://www.oshoviha.org/connection/VC_July-August2010web.pdf
In regards to “Osho’s declining movement,” I don’t find that to be true for the US/Canada. Many new Osho centers have recently opened up, and many new people have taken sannyas. Now some folks are looking for land to create a gathering spot, and an Osho Meditation Cruise to the Caribbean will happen next spring and is booking fast.
On another note, there is a beautiful video of an Osho 1972 Birthday Celebration on YouTube:
The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.
Lokesh: is it not possible that you are dreaming yourself?
is it not possible that all of us are dreamt by some spoofy
Chinese opium smoker and that the whole universe does not exist?
So what difference does it make? One day you and me will close our eyes and the universe will not make it puff….
In the meantime I will enjoy the time with my beloved (by the way a Ma) and a good pasta at the Italian ristorante…mind is mind, dream mind or intellectual mind.
And what business is it of yours, Shantam Pee? Stop playing Mr. Policeman and and hindu Crusader— I can see you now, wearing a cape, flapping your wings ready to fly to the rescue of some poor sannyasin who couldn’t take a joke!!!! If there is a big problem amongst humans, it’s this “Saviour” mentality, “The messiah”… along with your problem specifically S.Pee. is your constant blabbing with the mix of Hindu extremism and New Age jargon.
Anugrah…. I(we) have NO responsibilities to Osho. NONE whatsoever!!! What, is he Santa Claus?The God of Abraham and Moses? You obviously missed all of Osho’s discourses and instead switched channels to some second rate Christian preacher breathing fire and brimstone!! May Alzheimer’s affect you quickly and painlessly… time to kick the bucket, pal!!!
Yes, agreed, Bubs…
Anugrah came across there as a typical priest…
IE overflowing with ‘shoulds’ and ‘oughts’, rules and regulations…
No more such priestly injunctions, please – from anyone, esp you ‘well-meaning’ types – they’ve done more than enough damage everywhere, the last few thousand years…’
Haven’t such people learned anything from Osho (and others)?!
nothing is better than nothing
samuel becket
nothin aint worth nothin,but its free
kris kristofferson
religion is just making something out of nothing
frank
is it not possible that the universe is dreamed by a chinese opium smoker….?
anand grasshopper…
you`re smarter than i thought…….
shantam,
i heard that joke when smoking bejhind the bicycle shed when i was about 14 years old.
the anglo-saxons are more advanced than you think……..
something out of nothing= sannyasins…..Bubbie
No laughing. No joking. No fun. No intelligence. = sannyasins. NO WAY JOSE!!!
Great Halloween Costumes = Sannyasins
Once I saw a “Polish Target Pistol” up for sale at a local headshop/motorcycle shop. I thought “Wow I gotta take a look at this”… The proprietor removed it from the locked case. I looked at it and discovered it was made in India. I asked him, “Why do you keep it locked in a case”? He said, “You noticed it was made in India. It’s in such demand back there, those dot heads keep coming by trying to steal it that I had to lock it up”. “They Can’t produce them fast enough otherwise I wouldn’t have this problem!”
FYI- A Polish Target Pistol is a pistol with it’s barrel pointing backwards!!!
prem bubbie and satya deva, whatsoever i try to write , you find a way to condem me , sometimes you write that i am listening to some priest on tv. and sometimes trying to connect dots , but everytime you are wrong . i do not have tv and i do not listen to any priest . by the way responsiblity is not a bad word. it means ABALITY TO RESPONSE. sannyasins may not have any responsibility ,towards osho but then remmber osho asked in last years in zen discourses again and again to give some time to meditation , not neccessary whole day , but one hour or few hours.
i just try to remind that second time to both of you , rest is upto to you . if you want to continue with mind games , please go ahead . sannyasnews is nice playground for you guys
Anugrah, rest assured that I don’t criticise you merely for the sake of it, there are far better ways of ‘having fun’…
(And btw, how would you know what I or anyone else around here gets up to in our daily lives anyway?! For your info, meditation, in various shapes and forms, has been a part of every day of my life for decades).
But I stand by my response to your ‘responsibility of sannyasins’ statement, as it emanates far too much of a ‘priestly’ odour…
Especially now that you try to legitimise it by spurious references to ‘what Osho said/what Osho wanted’.
Ghastly, swamiji, just ghastly…
The very worst sort of priest is the one who criticises others ‘in the name of’ the Master, particularly a Master who’s no longer around…
Not so big a step to criticising others in the name of a ‘religion’, is it?
That might be where you’re heading, Anugrah…
Ghastly, just ghastly…!!
an 80 year old man,grandfather to 17 kids went to confession:
“father last night i had an affair.
i made love to two twenty-one year old girls,twice.”
the priest said:”when was the last time you were in confession?”
“never,i`m jewish.”
“then why are you telling me?”
“are you kidding?i`m telling everyone.”
Shantam Prem……..If I write something what do I do with it?
No smart comments from any of the rest of you.
So i am back at Snews after 33 hours or so, where was a single wise, intelligent new or thought provoking post from any of the regulars, even from those who moan about their not so intelligent audience.
Even to repeat oneself, one needs lots of new ………….metaphors.
Trust me Lokesh.. your article here will have more readerscompared to the people, in a certain time frame, who have read your novel.
You can try with a Little bit of content…who knows it turns out to be Barry Barry long.
In favour or in oppostion, Bubbie you can use your precious time and intelligence around,
Ground Zero Mosque.
Get involved with a real project rather than throwing your used diapers at sannyasins.
“…we have two basic responsibilities towards osho…” What part of that don’t you understand- Anugrah? “towards osho”. ????? responsibility means, ” a duty; charge”. Taken straight from the dictionary… What English vocabulary class did you take; where? Swaziland? Taiwan? Serbia? (My apologies to those living there). What part of “duty” don’t you understand? ….Sounds like an obligation to me. People who belong to organized religion believe in horseshit like that. Please take the necessary steps to cleanse yourself of your Christian/Muslim/Hindu conditioning…. 5 hours of ditch digging a day for 6 months then hooting “Osho is Great” 3 hours everyday, then look yourself in the mirror and chant, “Polly wanna Cracker” 1,000 times fast. that should rid yourself of any lingering imprint of your past religion. Then go buy yourself a Polish Target Pistol and use it.
mosque near ground zero is nothing but EXCUSE for some to create problem for each other. long ago there was fight about temple and mosque in Ayodhya. then there was fight about about budha statues in afghanstan. then there was fight over cartoons of mohemmad in denmark. always remmber we live in a insane world .
sexually repression or any kind of reppression just need any excuse to come out …..and reliougs feelings are best excuse and easy to find one
Yes, Shantam, I’m working on it, but don’t hold your breath waiting on it.
Right now I am in the middle of a disaster zone. A whole section of Ibiza’s coastline is ablaze. We just had to put out a fire two hundred metres from my house. You’ll be happy to know that there are a number of sannyasins amongst the fire fighters.
Helicopters hover overhead as I write. By the way in the middle of all the excitement I accidently erased the e.mail address of sannyasnews editor. Ooops! So please pass the message.
Now I have to go back to firefighting. This is radio Ibiza signing out.
the anglo-saxons are more advanced than you think……..
Frank, like an account book of Saint Peter, not a single cent will be deudcted from the Anglo saxons´s contribution to the presnt day civilisation.
in my opinion other than in the matters related to Osho, they have played quite well, here the racial representatives are throwing no ball after no ball, people are leaving the ground because of their unfair play, but No.. here other than God, who was killed by “their” Osho, nobody can stop them.
It is very good if one tries to improve the deficiency, but to behave good when one is not…i think this has become a trait in people, who have spend too much time around Osho´s physical presence.
The people who could not grow grass under the shades of big tree are selling powdered Milk..under the label FRESH.
sexually repression or any kind of reppression just need any excuse to come out …..and reliougs feelings are best excuse and easy to find one…
Anugrah, what kind of repression has turned Sannyas game up side down?
You have seen Poona 2 flourishing and declining.. You have seen meritocracy becoming Monarchy, what is the symptom there?
Sexual repression?
As far as I am concerned a bit of sexual repression can be fun, because when the energy is realeased it makes big boom.boom!
Joking apart, I have writtten something for a new thread (is the world ready for it).
I need ediors e.mail address. Sorry for delating it by accident.
E-mail: edit@sannyasnews.com
This is from the “About us” column of sannyasnews.
Yes Shantam you were gone for 33 hours and you weren’t missed…. Such neurotic precision for you to keep tabs on how long you’re away from Sannyas News…. Is it because you have no other life? All your “Eggs” in one basket, aye? Go out get laid, get drunk, swim in the Ganges(phew), got to a tittie bar. You might just forget this place and you might actually sprout a head on your shoulders…. As for me… off to the tittie bar I go…..
show some respect shantam.
if it wasnt for the anglo-saxons and the disdain that they developed for god and religion,you would never have got anywhere near any white chicks.
historical fact.
stop complaining or start wanking.
Write on, Frank!
It won´t be a nice feeling to be missed by you, Bubbie.
Feel free to go on skratching the grass. i am not going to take you home.
people who are born with the wall street Nukkie in their mouth, think inner journey is also like investing in share market. There are the mantra is, don´t put all your eggs in one basket, diversify portfolio, few share in blue chip company like Osho, few in mid market cap like Echart Tolle. Barry long is still being traded at Sydney Stock exchange, i have no idea.
Turn few web pages and see, rajneesh is offering public issues at quite a premium. Few are saying this will turn out to be a Ponzi Scheme.
I think, My guru was teaching some thing else.
One of the singer He used to listen fondly has sung,
(Honsla Kam kisi main Hota Hain , Jit kar khud hi haar jane ka….)
Very few have the courage, To win yet get defeated consciously.
if it wasnt for the anglo-saxons and the disdain that they developed for god and religion..
Aha…that is the reason white chicks have a great prefearance for capital N; the people who swear by God and his sales team.
I am just happy O.j. Simpson was not a sannyasin. Bubbie would have created mayhem.
Feel free to check the surveys of last few years, in the inter racial affairs, Indians are not in the top ten choices, even much behind Pornostanis.
After wrting the baove comment, i have opend a news site, “Tiger Woods, Elin Nordegren’s Divorce Official”
Frank can shed the light whether those 3 dozens or more white roses on the black Jacket had disdain for God or religion?
Just yesterday i have seen before the Swiss Parliament building, instead of demonstraion of cow producing farmers or rich boys shouting against IMF; A Gottestdienst.
Young Swiss were sitting on the floor, singing in praise of God and Jesus. Legs in summer shorts were radiating divinty, much more than usual.
Few stanzas from one of their flier.
You stood before creation
Eternity in your hand
you spoke the earth into motion
my soul, now to stand.
I´l stand
with arms high and heart abandoned
In awe of the one who gave it all
My soul lord to you surrundered
All i am is yours.
You obviously didn’t know what I meant by “All your eggs in one basket”….. I meant all of your time spent here on Sannyasnews…..idiot!!!!
O.J. Simpson not being a sannyasin…. Well, we had Ma Psycho sheela,…. wasn’t that enough…. More idiocy from Shantam Pee brain!!! Keep on babbling shantam… just fuckin’ amazing!!!
You talk about Swiss farmers singing praises to Jesus, etc. You do the same with Osho… What’s the difference? Just the name—FOOL!!!!
Indians not being in the top ten choices for inter-racial affairs– Do you know why? Because Indians smell real bad!!! Westerners especially picky western women can’t stand the B.O. reeking from Indian men… Their women don’t smell like roses either!!! I think it’s from all of that fucking curry and cumin in the diet…. Those spices are traditionally used to ward off Malaria and other parasites…Obviously it doesn’t work yet Indian people can’t let go of thousands of years of tradition…. Same with the Hindu karma/caste system… For you indian guys, if you want the white women, start eating meat and potatoes, drink wine, take regular baths or showers, wear nicer clothes, and floss/brush your teeth-EVERYDAY!!! for any chance to score with a white babe…. Tips from the book titled, “How to Score with White Babes” printed in China
Around two and half hours ago Bubbie goes to small pub with five one doller bills.
Comes home alone and than pissing in the bath tub, jumps on the sannyasnews, and tries to offer his expert comment without knowing the context.
Looks like, Frank as a President, Bubbie as a general secretary, Godless Party of Rootless (GPR) is on the cards.
the point is shantam.
if the world had been left to the kind of misogynistic bearded “religious” origiinators of satsang of old india and their “god” or “gods” that you waxed about in such idealised fashion…
rather than subject to the onslaught,as i have mentioned of rational madness that gave the american war of independence,french revolution,marie curie,alexander fleming,albert hoffman,suffragettes,for example..
there would have been no jiggy-jiggy with the pink roses for you….
is that really so difficult to grasp?
btw shantam…
are you still living in germany?
no wonder you are beginning to develop a severe allergy for white folk.
i felt the same way after spending time there….
and switzerland…
what a miserable bunch of tossers the swiss are…..
it reminds me,when i was in cologne for the carnival some years ago.
in the literature piublished by the local tourist board there was some advice to foreigners that during the carnival everyone was very friendly,but if a tourist should meet someone he or she had greeted during the carnival after it had finished,he should not expect the person to acknowledge him ,as normal life is different…..(not a joke)
you have really given yourself a very harsh spiritual practice living there…
lying on a bed of nails would be quite relaxing compared to that….
all the best..(no sarcasm)….
Frank… in reply to your friendly mail, i can say somewhere, it is really a harsh spiritual practice to live in Germany/Switzerland…it has made a very big hole in my parents heart and in our financial resources, still it is worth of every single cent. i live in these two countries because of my children, i call them my Osho ashram production.
Being a spoiled only child of affluent Indians, i think i deserve this harsh practise and a cause which is closer to my heart and is therefore bigger than my own life.
Those who have given much, will be asked much.
On the other level, i have no allergy or resentment against the western men or women. I am not hankering for an obedient Indian women who will massage my feet and ego. If love happens than even the woman of untouchable family will not be a barrier.
But yes… those western people will definitely get my punch who are unable to conceive the full picture of Osho´s work, His spoken and unspoken gestures, His intentions and yet are on the executive seat.
And the funny thing is even the market forces have rejected their brand of Ashram. If it is an ice cream produced by Nestle, it would have already withdrawn form the shelves.
Here comes the headstrong ness of the spirtual white men, the bunch of Christian fundamentalsits,, who are still focused with Vatican in the reverse gear.
And thanks to the inner freedom, White (wo)men does not give too much importance to Vatican or the Osho resort.
How someone can send the treatment package of Piles to the “next door neighbour”?
Shantam wrote
Anugrah, what kind of repression has turned Sannyas game up side down?
jayesh had a real eastate business in canada, seems like he always had plan to turned sannyas game up side down, he was just waiting for osho to leave body , so there is no one there to stop him for making a business of osho.
and then he also got help and support of some who thinks like him.
it is so simple that lots of thinghs have happened which were in their mind long ago since 1988 . turning sannyas upside down does not happened over night.
one more factor is there too that thousands of sannyasins who are not happy with change did not come forward out of fear, selfishness and not enough love for osho .
bottom line is jayesh was businessmen before sannyas and after sannyas he continue to do same . sannyas did not bring any change in me that is why he force everyone else to chage their way of living
Anugrah, from a psychological prospective also, it baffles me, why those thousands of sannyasins who were benefited by Osho´s last years, who were the eye witness of all those minute changes Osho wished and implemented in His work, those thousands of sannyasins who continue to talk about their displeasure with the imposed changes are NOT WILLING to speak publicly.
It also amazes me why those folks who fought tooth and nail in the American courts under the umbrella named Osho Friends International (OFI) and tasted just and fair victory have not taken the march further for the complete liberation and implementation of Osho Manifesto.
OFI will be remembered in the history as George Bush Senior. The decisive victory in gulf war of early 90´s would have spared the world from the second Iraq war.
Still.. i will say… Jayesh is a gem of a disciple, he just need to remember that He is not the only One who has understood Osho.
Just a small understanding and it can make a difference of immense significance.
shantam wrote
anugrah, from a psychological prospective also, it baffles me, why those thousands of sannyasins who were benefited by Osho´s last years, who were the eye witness of all those minute changes Osho wished and implemented in His work, those thousands of sannyasins who continue to talk about their displeasure with the imposed changes are NOT WILLING to speak publicly.
shantam, speaking publicly one needs guts and openness which is missing in old sannyasins and new sannyasins have no idea what really occures during 2003. when you take out those two catageries, very few are left who knows turth in its orignal form . everyone else lives in confussion and not in clearity. . some are attached to their room in laotzu or krishna house and some people like devgeet , anando, maneesha , shunyo are deep down agree with jayesh and his actions. they will remmber too down in history for not answering the burning issues and questions around it.
i have seen people change their opinions and mind so much and they call it meditation process . it looks like sannyasins do not want to face to turth that because of few power hungry people , thousands of osho lovers got hurt and has been seprated from each other……….commune was really truely meetings place of friends , now it has become meeting place of politicans and businessmen ……….
in osho,s life time there was sign at main gate…….POLITICIANS , AND DOGS NOT ALLOWED INSIDE . we need that sign again there more than anyother time, but problem is who will dare to put that sign when all are supporting this insanity
Anugrah, I remember another sign outside of the main gate. It said, ‘Leave your shoes and mind at the gate.’ Times have obviously changed.
anugraha,
the truth is, osho was pretty much of a dictator.
“i am not a democrat,i am a dictator”
–notes of a madman.
he had the last word.
so when he died,whatever supposed system was in place would lean to dictatorial,like it had always done.
and all the people who were used to obeying dictates,the vision,orders,guidelines,or whatever you want to call it,carried on obeying from above or developed an aversion to taking orders and got out,or kicked out.
simple really.
dogs not allowed.?
that`s funny.
some dogsin there could improve the place drastically.
like diogenes,i will say that my dog has more unconditional love,intelligence and just plain good old sense of fun than these prickly-pear up the ass seekers of enlightenment.
woof woof.
that`s him agreeing……
the pyramid is the most stable structure known to man.
one brick at the top and all the others below.
how does that relate to chang-tsu
or lao-tse?
i can`t figure that out.
lokesh
according to marty the sign said:
leave your mind,robe and underwear at the door…..
funny thing,memory……
Masters and dictators are laws unto themselves, everybody else must follow the system of check and balance.
True master(sadguru) of one can be just a teacher for others. Master is true or false, disciples surrender with their own will and get nourished in the process. Under a political dictator, creativity simply shrinks, survival becomes paramount, people who want to become rich, must learn to be a foot Matt.
In India the whole sale market of Gurus, The Adjective MAHARAJ (the great king, king of the kings)
is still being used for the master by their disciples, followers. Kripalu ji Maharaj, Sudhanshu ji Mahraj are the names of our timee.
Some semi literate politician or a local celebrity uses this for Osho too while inaugurating the local event, his sentence will be something like, ” Shri Osho ji (maharaj) is India´s best known master who brought so many Westerns at his feet because of his revolutionary teachings. I request the people present to follow the foot steps of Shri Osho ji.
It seems, like Lokesh or Satya Deva, Frank has also not seen the Poona 2 chapter unfolding. This i say from his comment above, it has all the usual psycho insights but not an insider punch.
Same way, Anand with his 36 years of visiting Pune gives the impression that he was only visiting for his meditative tourism but did not go so close enough to feel the power of the mind blowing punch.
The other month, he was getting this much closer to admit how ” ours” feeling has become “their.”
But he will not elaborate further, because this can create the ripples of fear to get banned from the place.
MY feelings is, If one is not deported from some place, it is not possible to feel Osho from the heart.
As far as enlightenment is concerned, why not buy Philips lamps, they have sense and simplicity both.
come on lokesh,
what happened to your meisterwerk?
what is it……?
trainspotting at lucknow junction?
begbie the buddha…?
an insight into the no-mind of rab shree nesbit?
papaji macmaharaj speaks:
“i`ll tell you this,son….”
Sudanshu Ji Maharaj has illicit relation with a girl faaar lesser than her age and there is a long story. He simply encashes the sanskriti hymns, but talks only from Sikh and Hindu stories.
TV Channel has shown long details about Kripalu ji Maharaj……about his sex scandals.
Many other Maharaj are meant for creating rift in the society and community, so that politically, some parties take advantage to that position of the innocent people.
South Indian fellow Swami Nitya Nand is recently caught with actress Ranjeetha. Previously also, he had much such relations.
Assa Ran is shown at TV Channel, for sex scandals, and land grabbing. His face has no glow of spirituality or truthful ness.
Now, another fellow is roaming in different parts of India, in the name of Pyramid Meditation Shri Chootia Ji Maharaj. He was not happy with his job and has many children and with a face reduced to a sucked and thrown mango.
Every nook and corner is full of such unemployed, land grabber with leakage programme.
Perhaps, they think, it is very easy business and they too can reach to Rolls Royce with most beautiful and lucrative ladies like Osho could enjoy. But they must understand Osho was a real and truthful Enlightened Master, all others are posing. Even in the west also, they are stupids enough, simply they know how to find, fuck and forget and talk non-sense about white color and big boobs etc. To go inside in true meditation is a great uphill task, which is normally not easy task. It is a long years process of sadhna. It is journey of many lives, which Osho has transformed. Yes, if anybody wants to comment on Osho, thinking superior than him, this is his choice, but truth of Osho will remain truth that he has spoken maximum words in the world, and he is recoded in Guineses Book of World Records on many fronts, on various walks of his sermons/style/set up etc.etc.
In fact, Osho wanted to finish this all non-sense -self proclaimed titles of Maharaj, King of Kings, Great King, Shri Shri ….Shri 108, Shri 1008, Satguru Ji Maharaj, Mata……Landeshwar Maharaj, Maha Mandleshwar, Savitri etc. Even Osho left his own previous all prefix and suffix and perhaps, Osho is simply an identification, accepted by us, he himself did not want it because of his Shuniyo level.
shantam,
more psycho insights from one of the resident jackassnews psychos….
at what stage of the sannyas story was it not neccesary to make the right noises to stay “in”?
of course if you are making the right noises,you didn`t notice or care,that`s all…….
fine…..
its not dictatorship hitler style,but having said that,i did one day hear a german guy at the desk in the welcome centre dealing with a complaint protesting:
“i am just obeying orders”
biting my lip as i noticed that all the people standing there had completely straight faces….
osho is in the guinness book of records for his “sermons”?
Following the rules and regulations are required in any set up. Bring the street shoes in the bed room and any emancipated girl friend/wife will create the drama or leave the empty beer bottles on the table for more than 30 minutes etc. etc.
No intelligent person will make a big fuss about such things. But there are spoken and unspoken core values; try to preach monogamy in a swingers club… someone must stand up and protest.
“i am just obeying orders”
Germans have gone light years away from Hitler´s time, but obeying the orders from an higher authority is in the DNA.
In the times of unemployment fears, employer is not less powerful than the priests.
After this comment i will try to check whether the word Whistle Blower exist in this language?
At the Ashram welcome centre desk, you have not seen me listening complaints. I would have answered, ” first time in my life, i am trying to obey the orders.”
Little laughter and air is cleared.
re guiness book of records.
chinmoy was in it too..
ron hubbard….
and nityananda of tamil actress fame……
there`s even a sikh guru who weighs in as the worldsfattest and heaviest guru.
any relation,shantam?
its amazing some of people`s ideas as to what constitutes an achievement…….
all the best
his ho ho holiness sadguru mahaboob mahabananarama sri sri free lunch bubba bhagwan bigman mcmaharaj mahashagva bom shankar alec rolls royce rinpoche o`reilly-ji…..
Shantam: I was a disciple in Pune 1 and 2, when there was the ashram. And yes you are right, now visiting the resort I am a spiritual tourist and never claimed otherwise.
When water arrived at a rock, it moves around it and does not try to change the rock into something softer.
In the west, there are high tech tools. But before they came, unknown numbers of people have sweat their life to break the rocks, so that dams, bridges and tunnels are created.
But we the people of Osho are watcher on the hills…
Yet..Osho was himself a Hammer on the Rock…without this conditioning breaking hits from Him, many of us would not have so fast and so smooth a new kind of awareness, we take it as our right.
Frank, funny enough I read Trainspotting a few months back and I thought the same as I did the first time I read it…a masterpiece of social commentary.
I’ve been told that my wee article will be posted within the next twenty-four hours. I realize that being a critic comes easier that setting myself up to be critized, but at least I now have an idea of how Shantam must feel.
lokesh,
shantam is sharpening his kirpan….
bubbie is tanking up on country moonshine…
the water is flowing in anand`s rocks at the prospect of the best bitching session and most fun he`s had for 36years….
you might have to call mel gibson and sean connery for back-up!!
re trainspotting…
it could be that sickboys theory of life works for sannyas,too… ….
“you have it,then you lose it,and its gone forever…..”
Frank, Are you non resident Indian living in UK, the way Brtitish do?
I think a little biographical note will be interesting, time to take the Chadder” away.
shantam,
take my chadder off my chuddies..?
i think not.
!!
but how could i forget the details of a religion where one of the five holy items is a pair of underpants?
i could respect this kind of religion that clearly has priorities right….
what about your biological note?
Man woman or in between, aged between 35-45/45-55/55-65 or if above, how people will find you from the obituaries in The Guardain.*
mixed race caucasian mongoloid nehroid android transsexual.
history of instability.
lengthy police record
2.4 metres tall
tattoo on chest:”religion sucks” in sanskrit
several teeth missing.
twinkle in eyes.
no friends of facebook….
or on facebook,even…
Be still
and recognise the buddha within
remember
to forget everything you have ever been told
it is all lies- from ego
it is all ideas – from outside the heart
it is all from outside of truth
go within and recognise
your own truth
true, but the buddha within can’t eat, drink, piss, shit, fuck… without the ego!!! keeping it real…bro!!!
Bubbie is hundred per cent correct.
Ashik Bear, have you gone inside and reached, or simply preaching, for the sake of preaching and boasting with borrowed knowledge of the stupid and idiot Road side Hindu faque gurus in Hindustan. These bastards can preach only to the innocent people but themselves, they are deeply induldged in sex scandal, land grabing, Mercedes and making money with false insignia to their forhead, and their first crush is to go to USA.
What their Gods did only fought for the sake of land and lady. Killing and devastation was their parmo-dharam.