Excerpt about the renowned Centering Group in Pune One, from the book by Swatantra Sarjano ‘When A Real Lion Meets a Real Master’.
(Explanation: Sarjana writes in the third person.)
(This account is also featured elsewhere, but not with the facility to comment)
He realized immediately that he wouldn’t have to wait for the Tantra Group to give vent to his sexual energy, because already during the Centering one could breathe in that aura of extreme freedom of communication for which the ashram was rightly famous! In fact, every time the participants would all go together to have a shower, there was inevitably some little romance going on, or some little adventure, or a “quickie” to be consumed in ten minutes…
The big shower and toilet building contained twenty cubicles lined up along all the walls, plus a couple of small rooms with a door and a lock, hence whoever wanted to be alone could enter into one of them and even look the door with the key. So it then would happen that if he liked one of the girls in the group, he simply twinkled at her while she was having her shower with everybody else, and if she would answer in the same fashion, they would run into one of those little rooms, lock the door with the key, and start fucking like two rabbits, which means very quickly, because after ten minutes they were supposed to be back in their group!
The Centering Group lasted for five days; it was very amusing and full of surprises, with a lot of little games to be played in order to awake a little of your awareness, or at least to show to you just how unaware you are.
Prasad, the leader of this group, was a real angel, perhaps the most beautiful person he had ever met in the ashram, who showed infinite patience in his effort to awake, at least a little bit, more than one hundred people at the time.
One of the games he liked most consisted of partnering up two groups of people; the two groups were then told to stand opposite each other and at the two opposite sides of the room. From that moment on they were supposed to always keep eye contact with their partner, and to start advancing towards him or her, and – here is the trick – they had to move in slow motion, the slowest movements they could manage. Once in front of their partner, they were invited to make a deep namaste, and to tell their partner as if in a mirror: “Welcome, welcome to yourself!”
After that, they had to depart from their original partner in any way they preferred, but always in slow motion; at this point everybody was hugging each other slowly, slowly, and for a long time, and then they would move forward and repeat the same ritual with the next person they were going to meet. There were huge mirrors on all the walls and once everybody had met everyone else, the next instructions were to look at yourself in one of the mirrors, then start moving towards your own image, always very, very slowly, and once you arrived just in front of the mirror, bow once more with the gesture of namaste, repeating again, but this time to yourself, “Welcome, welcome to yourself!”
The result was such that in the end, saying these words to themselves, anyone could see how almost everybody was crying copiously in that moment, and without any control! Lastly, the group was residential in the sense that all participants left the room only in the morning and in the evening to attend Osho’s discourses, and then they would go back to their group room to eat the food that was being served, and finally everyone would go to sleep. Naturally during the night there was a continuous back and forth of couples looking for each other, and once found they would caress each other, make love, and all this without even sharing their name!
After the beautiful experience of the Centering Group, he immediately joined the second group, the Intensive Enlightenment, which was truly something incredibly hard for him! The group was scheduled for three days only, but it was spent in total isolation from the rest of the world; you were not supposed to leave the group room at all for these three days, and in addition you had to remain in complete silence all the time!
For a big mouth like him it seemed an almost impossible task, but he decided to throw himself totally into it with all his heart, because if Osho had given him this group, it certainly meant that there must be some gift for him there, hidden in some corner!
The present was indeed there, and it would become clear on the last day… but how to describe it? He had never been in silence for three days in his entire life, and this event was triggering a silent explosion:
Suddenly there was no Time anymore.
Suddenly there was no Space anymore.
Suddenly there were no more Divisions.
Suddenly there was no Life and Death anymore.
Suddenly everything was One.
Suddenly he had returned to the Source….
Yes, but how to tell you?
How to find the words to say it?
And if we leave it as a mystery, where does he belong to?
The only thing he could remember was a sweet sense of being finally at home….
That journey was over, and now another journey was about to start.
Excerpt from chapter 1 of ‘When A Real Lion Meets A Real Master’ by Swami Swatantra Sarjano
Available at Osho World and Osho Viha
A hidden gift in almost every thread topic…so – also here.
Yes, I remember Sarjano from Pune 1, as one says, a natural grown honey bee, checking out the newcomer babes arriving, before, during and after the first steps into the great washing/cleansing procedures in the Pune Ashram big group communal affairs.
We met twice in the very early morning in Vrindavan kitchen where he was about to prepare the very delicious morning chai. And there was something special and other as with other guys about his checking- out, if the new female arrival (me) would be worth some of his very charming approaches.
You UK guys will not be surprised that he instinctively decided that it would not be worth it, but he did it in such a charming, loving way, that also until now I remember that (too old (at least about same age), too German, too complicated…not fitting for a quickie…and so on) – but it happened so charmingly that it never left even the spur of a scratch, and that is something.
I am sure that his book is a fabulous read. His testimonial of the Master´s work.
Yes, and I also remember some of the lectures, where Osho got some´celebrity communal VIPs like him on the hook.
‘Suscrib’e, the under-title of his book, speaks of a real lion with a Real Master…as often, I sat there in the audience listening, sometimes laughing, sometimes not, imagining how I could take it, if exposed to the whole community like that.
He obviously took it with humour and ´grandezza´ and above that it released a lot of creativity, ´Zorba-like´ in him. Sharing the gifts of that in abundance.
If he reads some UK Sannyas caravanserai news chat about his book, I send him a smile (to Rome or to wherever) and may say, thank you for your book…or the Hugging celebrations you initiated, as I read recently…
Testimonials like this (in the above topic description) about the former group facilitating in Pune 1 are very precious in my eyes. Even when it´s not happening like this any more, as times have passed…
From ´Ignorance to Innocence´ again, (come) again, and maybe inducing naturally some corrections for self-appointed historians ?
With Love,
Madhu
I have a good friend who has this tendency to talk about his early days with Osho, and his sentimentality and over emotionality about the era, makes him so boring, at times.
Why? As he romanticised about the groups he did, and the powerful meetings he had with Osho, so it became clear he hadn’t moved on from that time. If it was so good, why hadn’t he learned to live more presently? If they had transformed him so much, why was he so stuck now?
I found it difficult to challenge the very core beliefs he had about that time. He was so attached to them. But life, suffering and pain have slowly helped to kill off his romantic memories, and as he has met new people, so their interest and his own fascination with events so long ago have gradually withered.
He would tell me sometimes that if I knew how damaged his early childhood had been and how transformative these early groups had been I’d have more understanding of his gratitude to those early days, where he’d been given the opportunity to express his pain and begin again. And when I truly heard this and took it on, it made some sense.
Recently he’s talked about them less, and the focus of his life has changed. He’s met a woman again. He’s more focused on today, and he doesn’t talk about them to new people so much.
He tells me, that rather than focusing on his problems, his past and his pain, he had learned to think more of others and what he can give rather than get. No wonder that woman has begun to show greater interest in him.
There is something so deeply tragic in old people wallowing in their memories, hoping that in doing so they will learn something new. Is this what Sannyas News is becoming?
You and rescuing. Either actively at it, or sneering at those who haven’t got it like wot you have because they won’t be rescued by you.
I used to know so many people like you before I took sannyas. At least they had the excuse of being in their twenties. You come across as so knowing, just as they did.
By the way, I wouldn’t dream of regaling Sannyas News users with the failings of a friend of mine who had shared personal details of his or her life with me. Not impressed.
Dear Arpana,
I don’t have boundaries and considerations and fear as you do. I’m not a politician worrying about what others think of me.
I don’t need to vent my anger on Shantam or enjoy spats with Lokesh, or look to Frank to support me and laugh at my jokes, or hope that Satyadeva likes me. I don’t worry if Tan dislikes me, nor post quotes from Osho to support my case. I really don’t care, which gives me licence to sometimes agree with them or not.
I don’t have to worry what my friends think or concern myself with shared details online. That’s because my friend too doesn’t live in fear or shame about himself. He also doesn’t see himself as a failure.
Whilst you sadly do consider and weigh up, and try to be balanced and liberal and reveal yourself as insecure, afraid, angry and disgusted, pretty much all at the same time.
In addition, when I refer to another’s post I don’t just look for the negative to comment upon. I actually try and understand what is being written, I don’t condemn first and think later. I actually ask myself what the writer might mean, and wish to engage with them rather than score points.
You could try and do that one day…See what it feels like to listen first. Rather than just react with emotion.
Even loyalty goes out of the window in your need to pass yourself off as superior.
Loyalty, Arpana, you truly are a politician! You would be best served joining the Tories or fighting with the Corbynites.
But here, just for laughs, is a great quote from the man…After all, we can all find a quote to support anything you want.
Having said that, it does rather neatly offer an insight into your ridiculous premise:
http://www.osho.com/iosho/library/read-book/online-library-politicians-intelligence-loyalty-a13e236d-df1?p=fea9154b9fecc846c7261c20f05ee192
Rev., you truly are a politician!
Lol. That’s hilarious. That is so profoundly projective.
Xtians – dontcha just luv ‘em?
Thank you, Simond. Your comment has the smell of truth. And Arpana missed a good opportunity to remain silent.
You haven’t missed an oportunity to remain silent though, have you, anonymous coward, who will soon run away, back to the safety of judging, but keeping it to yourself rather than putting it out?
Of course I will run away from you, Arpana. Simond’s statements had the smell of truth, yours not. Goodbye.
“If it was so good, why hadn’t he learned to live more presently?”
Quite so, Simond. An obvious question. I find it difficult to relate to anyone who harps on about the past too much. We all have a past, yet the present is so much more alive, if you have the eyes to see it.
Lokesh, no one has name-dropped, or written/name-dropped so extensively about Poona 1 than you at Sannyas News. Motes and eyes etc.
Arp, somehow I have become a mote in your eye, which might explain why you can’t see the difference between writing about the past and living in the past.
Quality bit of rationalisation that, Lokesh.
It’s not a rationalisation, Arpana, in my book. There is a big difference, although the lines can get a little muddied sometimes.
When Lokesh occasionally sentimentalises about the past, he is focused on revealing a truth, an idea or even a belief that resonates with his present understanding. He might use a past incident to remind us of his current understanding, or may even use his present knowledge to reveal the ignorance of his past.
As a result, he adds to a debate, or informs the reader, or asks the reader to question his or her current understanding.
It usually makes him a delight to read.
In contrast, your posts are often focused on making yourself ‘look’ better, you want to show how ‘intelligent’ or well read you are.
You often use arguments and conflict as a means to bolster your opinion, rather than explore the issue openly. Until you explore this for yourself you will continue to see that your posts are often left unanswered by others.
Where they are answered, the posts often mirror your own conflicting and argumentative mind.
As I have mentioned to you before, this will hurt and confuse you, because you haven’t yet acknowledged your aggressive mind…As yet, you feel yourself as the victim and often feel misunderstood and attacked, although I recognise that you haven’t yet fully acknowledged the pain it causes you.
Rather than keep looking to score points against Lokesh or attack Shantam or deride Madhu, or look up to Frank, you could recognise a humility is being asked of you.
Isn’t it time to ask yourself why you are so alone and friendless, not only this cyber world, but in your daily life?
In contrast, Vicar, your posts are often focused on making yourself ‘look’ better, you want to show how ‘intelligent’ or well read you are.
You often use arguments and conflict as a means to bolster your opinion, rather than explore the issue openly. Until you explore this for yourself you will continue to see that your posts are often left unanswered by others.
Where they are answered, the posts often mirror your own conflicting and argumentative mind.
Well put, Simond. Thanks for that.
Are there people on the Earth who like to read about the past which has no similar glorious present and almost uncertain future?
When we look in the history of mankind, very backwards communities glorify their past. Neo- Sannyas has really become Indian. In Indian system, Present is Kalyuga (Dark Age), best has already happened in Satyuga (The Age of Truth). For example, 1974-1978 is a kind of Satyuga in Sannyas memory.
Sarjano´s book is published by Osho World Foundation, Delhi. This is showing a middle finger to Osho Foundation International by Keerti and other expelled brothers. Sarjano was also expelled by the elites running OFI.
When raw sex appeal becomes part of meditation curriculum, will to power and dominate others will follow sooner than later. As it is clear from Madhu´s post too, checking women was a legitimate activity in the compound of Osho Ashram/commune.
Indians and Italians have direct and unsophisticated way whereas Britishers and North Americans were more cultured and refined. So clash of style was bound to happen. Under the instructions of my boss of that time, Ma Zareen the director of Osho Sannyas Initiation Academy, I have told few times to Sarjano not to take photos in the Sannyas ceremony or leave the Buddha Hall. Like a hungry lion he was preying bit too rudely. Few women too complained about his interfering with their space.
Sometimes I wonder why Delhi guys have not approached me to publish my notes. After all, they will be the direct beneficiaries when New arrives in Pune, the way new PM is taking hold of 10, Downing Street London!
I don’t really see this as history.
Those Poona 1 groups within the Buddhafield of a Master were something else. And not just worthy of remembrance, but worthy of emulation in present time.
I have never been to such ground-breaking groups since that time, or with other teachers. I feel Sarjana’s account only manages to reach partly to a full description of them, as he is focused on a certain licentiousness, rather than freedom.
On a matter close to our friend Shantam’s heart:
Has he ever asked what happened to Prasad? He was one of the best group workers I ever experienced, and led the Centering Group.
Osho left his name as someone who should be in the 21, and as far as I know he was for a while. But for reasons I never understood he died a relatively young death. I remember him as being clearly healthy and physically and mentally robust. I could also imagine he would have been independently minded!
Anyone know any details of his death, etc?
Yes, a little, Parmartha. Prasad was very sick, a cancerous illness, tried a lot of alternative and non-alterative medical approaches.
There was a lot of grief in our German section at the time, he fought in his own very way to stay with us a little longer.
He had a lot of support though by his close friends and lovers.
Madhu
“Those Poona 1 groups within the Buddhafield of a Master were something else. And not just worthy of remembrance, but worthy of emulation in present time.
I have never been to such ground-breaking groups since that time, or with other teachers.”
I don’t doubt how powerful those early groups were, compared to the ‘growth movement’ efforts made elsewhere at the same time, especially having been advised by Somendra at the end of his 3 months intensive group in London that anything other than ‘Pune therapy’ would be “a waste of time” as there was no comparison between the ‘energy’ of the two, the level at which ‘normal’ groups operated being far lower than that happening at the ashram.
He also cited the significance of the “community” existing over there, indicating it was an absolutely crucial factor in the scenario.
So I can’t see that sort of phenomenon being easily ‘emulated’ as it surely depended upon the unique psycho-energetic field generated by a master gifted with an extraordinarily appropriate capacity to inspire the people who had been ‘magnetically’ drawn to be in his presence to leave their ‘comfort zones’, transcend their limitations and enjoy a taste (or more) of freedom.
This was also very much in tune with the era’s ‘zeitgeist’, it may perhaps even be said to have been a sort of ‘cosmic task’ for the post-war generation, which no longer seems to be the case and hasn’t for quite a while now.
I should also add that it seems those Pune groups weren’t by any means necessarily always good for everyone; there were those who weren’t particularly benefited and those who say they were even ‘damaged’ by participating in them.
I suspect that for people with particularly deep-rooted life issues a longer period – perhaps even many years – of carefully graduated humanistic therapy, under the overall ongoing guidance of a high quality therapist, would have been by far the better option.
For such people there are possibly no short-cuts, however great the master and/or however inspired his community.
I have often thought there is a strong element of survival of the fittest in the sannyas world.
That a lot of those, us, who came to Bhagwan, had fucked-up survival instincts because of our upbringing.
“I have often thought there is a strong element of survival of the fittest in the sannyas world.
That a lot of those, us, who came to Bhagwan, had fucked-up survival instincts because of our upbringing.” ( Arpana)
I can relate to that, Arpana. Quite well. Only later – in the very last decades, I realised – and it was (is) quite painful, that I had pretty delusionary presumptions about a ´Oneness´ in terms of understanding and friendship and especially Sangha-issues.
When I approached buddhist groups here, it felt more cosy; but I didn´t feel ´home’. That was quite a ´chapter (not closed up to now).
Madhu
In my experience of western Buddhists they are ‘Christians’ who practise Buddhist meditation, and it’s very repressive and controlled.
Arpana,
And what about Swamis and Mas?
Were they Muslims before becoming sannyasins?
Thanks, SD.
It would be silly to deny there were a few casualties, and a few people who might be deemed not ready. Mainly the encounter group though. I never heard of casualties from the Centering Group, which actually was an amazing group. There were more casualties though from Humaniversity therapy in Holland, so I think it fair to say that often, somehow, the Poona 1 Buddhafield protected those who were not fully ready.
On your former point, I suppose it is the old chestnut as to whether you feel that in present time the presence of a Master still continues with the same force after his death. I believe it does, so I feel that the efforts of Rajneesh in Mexico, and the Paca Mama guy, and Arun, etc., though laudable, fall short because they are not fully taking their inspiration from the field force of Osho, and therefore their groups do not fully match the amazing quality of the Poona 1 days.
Perhaps whether “the presence of a Master still continues with the same force after his death” ultimately depends on the individual, ie the degree to which the individual truly loves or loved the Master.
This no one can know except the individual (and the Master) of course. And thus there’s plenty of scope for deception along similar lines to that perpetrated on himself and others by Somendra, who, during the 3 months intensive group in London, would quite often stop and say he was ‘going to ask Bhagwan for his opinion’, before, after a few moments’ silence, delivering said message from the Master. Sheer sophistry, but apart from the level of delusion he was carrying, he knew he could get away with it, naive and essentially disempowered as all or most of us in that group were.
Moreover, as such ‘true’ disciples are now hardly likely to want to engage as participants in such groups and, also very important, no community comparable to 70s and 80s Pune exists, I really don’t see the practicality of such a hope to ‘emulate’ the extraordinary conditions of that past.
And, btw, personally, I wouldn’t necessarily trust any sannyasin therapist who ‘promises’ to ‘transform’ one’s life by doing his/her group. Especially one that sashays around the world charging prices many can not afford.
Having said all that, Centering does sound a good thing, perhaps demonstrating that worthwhile results aren’t by any means always achieved via what might even be termed the ‘pseudo-glamour’ of far more ‘extreme’ methods.
” Having said all that, Centering does sound a good thing, perhaps demonstrating that worthwhile results aren´t by any means always achieved via what might even be termed the ´pseudo-glamour óf far more extreme methods”. (Satyadeva)
Having said all that, Satyadeva – to a computer, information, being transmuted into the mathematical formula of an algorhythm play – there might still be a gap for a meaning of a word like “Centering”, as there may be some good memory corners still not supervised, energetically canalized and whatever – and also not related to post-modern Manga kind Samurai games on the game market in so-called augmented reality (and this way also on the computer-and-event and entertain-market).
More than “a good thing”, as you put it, to remember.
What you mean by “‘pseudo glamour´ of far more´extreme methods”, I would like to read.
Or have I once again missed the variety and skills of English Humour again this afternoon?
Madhu
MOD:
Madhu, WHAT ARE “post-modern Manga kind Samurai games on the game market in so-called augmented reality”, PLEASE?
“What you mean by “‘pseudo glamour´ of far more´extreme methods”, I would like to read.”
Basically, Madhu, I mean ‘no limits’ sex and violence. You know, the sort of scenarios that have long been the stuff of legend among veterans of the Pune Frontier Campaigns (and some other ones) mainly in the 1970s/early 80s. Exceptionally crude, exceptionally intimidating, genuine ordeals – but inevitably somehow glamourised through the lurid anecdotes of proud and/or relieved ‘survivors’.
I suppose they were a necessary catharsis and, I’ve heard it said, perhaps served a purpose for the wider collective, rather than just the people who took part. Maybe – how would I or anyone know?
But interesting such groups were phased out after (or was it before?) the end of Pune 1. Had they done their job and were therefore no longer required? Or was it deemed they were becoming or might become ‘bad publicity’, thus keeping away people and/or financial backing, or even attracting unwanted attention from the authorities?
Moderators,
Examples:
Stalking, harassments and using the smartphone as a weapon to capture also the victim´s reaction, anger, shock etc. to such harassments on their phones for further digital compilations and further gang stalking streetwork actions in the same direction.
Other methods are to rob privacy on the private computer through hacking and phishing, and in a way that one has to call it a cybercrime.
Before a ´Frank´ here feels called, maybe , I might add a quote from his yesterday s contributions:
“These days you`d have the PC brigade knocking at your door and banging on about human rights…
It never did me any harm…
Best days of my life….”(Frank)
There would be a lot more to say – but leave it like that.
And as Satyadeva had no reply button under his response to my midnight question, I say Thanks for his reply, can suscribe to most of it – but as a woman having other issues than most of the male contributors here, I guess.
Madhu
MOD:
ABOVE POST HAS BEEN EDITED.
P.S. for Satyadeva:
What I have experienced in the realms of “sex and violence” you rightly referred to in your reply has been taking quite some other augmented streetwork-smartphone new sexualized and violent patterns and turns meanwhile and is not limited to some individuals you could see and identify.
Immaturity and violence took new turns with other ´costumes’, an anonymous terror in real action then, as one of the options.
And I guess you know that too, even when only theoretically.
Madhu
P.S.S:
The very last decades I sometimes really didn´t know any more
what was/is worse: the clear-cut visible, ´easy´ to identify violence and sexisms of former times, or the climate happening (here) nowadays as daily anonymous violent streetwork harassments…
And that also was shocking to realize.
Yes, lots of changes, lots of changes…And the questions, what is good (progress) in that, and what not, should be allowed.
“This was also very much in tune with the era’s ‘zeitgeist’, it may perhaps even be said to have been a sort of ‘cosmic task’ for the post-war generation, which no longer seems to be the case and hasn’t for quite a while now.” ( Satyadeva)
I agree here, Satyadeva.
However, being in the midst of my Gestalt Therapist Training here in the German section of the Fritz Perls Institute, I very well remember the struggles I had to keep in tune with that here in Germany and it took a few years more, that my whole ´plans of profession and work in this society with these ´plans´ just fell apart.
But that´s another and quite a ´story…
When I consider the ‘now-a-days’ I am sometimes torn apart in between appreciation about how much of these trials and errors and efforts of this generation is dissolved in the nowadays wellness industry; and on the other hand, feel the disgust sometimesthat so much became just a money-making machine (very roughly said, sorry).
Well, I am sitting on my cushion…looking at the wall…and into Nature…and…more….
Madhu
P.S. for Parmartha:
I guess he was one of the first of the bunch of the ´chosen´ to leave the ’21′, pretty much soon, in the very early 90s. That also came as a remembrance just now…But I feel not to stir some old muddy waters about that point, not knowing any of the ´background’ stuff therein.
Remember him also as a beautiful group facilitator.
Thank you very much, Madhu.
If you come across any obituary, etc. that tells of his life and death, I would be very interested. He did not seem like someone who would die early of cancer.
I can´t give you more information, Parmartha, than I did. Lost contact with those who were very close to him long, long ago. Just knew that his lover then stayed in Australia a little while, but also that is ancient, rotten no-news. Sorry, you have to look for somebody else (for more).
I didn´t like your remark so much, I confess: “He did not seem like someone who would die early of cancer.”
Who are we, to state such?
It happens quite often that I am shocked that many of us seemingly pop off so ´early’, and then I speak to myself: ´Who am I?`
To cover up my own fear? Of dying like this?
Maybe my pretty much due to my isolated life-chapter to send such clouds… That´s with what I end up with. most of the time, when I cloud-watch… :
We don´t know a thing – not really – I presume.
Madhu
About Prasad:
As a matter of fact, Indians were not allowed into various groups of that time. Reasons were financial as well as collective.
So whatsoever I know about people is by observing their life in an open world called Osho Commune. I think this inner openness of people in a village-like atmosphere give many insights about human life.
Commune is Osho´s finest creation and very much fitting to the missing link of puzzle in the western life. Decline of commune by the western elites is not a loss for Indians but for the sweet ‘n’ rebellious souls of westerns.
On the basis of my observation, I must say Prasad was one of the most impressive personalities in Pune. Among all the high profile disciples in therapists’ black robes, I was highly impressed by this man´s pause and stability. I came to know his name only when he was chosen as Inner circle member. I think one of the reasons I felt impressed was his knowledge of astrology. There was some article also written by him on astrological Zeitgeist.
I think within a short period of time, he drifted away from inner circle and had the idea to shift to Byron Bay in Australia. His idea was that when Earth will pass through big catastrophes, Byron Bay will be the safest and most transformative place.
I think he died before he touched sixties. Somewhere I was feeling some Vacuum in the Sannyas air with his departure.
Here we go again…
It`s that time of the week, it seems like yesterday…oh, it was yesterday…
when the inmates of the Orange Sunshine Old Folks home trip out on their regular stroll down memory lane…
They will be hauling out their Indian Distinguished Service medals in just a moment…displaying their war wounds…and herpes sores…a bit of shell-shock from the chemical attacks of the 1960s…and silent explosions of the 70s…
Then endless tales of no-holds-barred encounters with the enemy, inner and outer, that went on for days at a time, living with the ever-present threat of ego-death on a daily basis and some even having their egos blown clean off in the front line of Sannyas frontier territory…but lived to tell the tale…
How they watched, horrified, as therapist gorillas shagged the arses off their girlfriends and sex-addict guerillas in deep states of no-mind sprung tantric ambushes on rookies in booby-trapped toilet cubicles in underground therapy bunkers…
How they stampeded the doors of perception en masse deep behind the enemy lines of the mind…Ah…the cameraderie of the therapy trenches…
And the general, with his gas mask on, waving his arms about and exhorting his troops, Patton-esque, to keep going, dropping their egos, dropping their pants…charaiveti, charaiveti, onto Berlin…London…the New World…
Billeted in their headquarters at Southern Command, they presided over a spiritual empire on which the sun never set…the map of the world was coloured red…
“Aye, those were the days, my friend…You could do a group, shag a few birds, become totally centred, shag a few birds, have a satori, shag a few birds, buy a packet of beedies, become the new man and still get change from a fiver!
Young people today could do with a bit of what we had…Would never happen these days of course, all that health and safety stuff…it`s political correctness gone mad….”
By tea-time they`ll be back round to their part in the eventual downfall of Ma Anand Kurtz, model officer gone insane, and her brutal kingdom of terror and how only a few of them made it home from that mission into the heart of darkness to heroically battle on….
You must have gathered your spit today quite a while Frank, and here you come…and share – generously as ever!
I agree, Madhu, I laughed out loud too!
Frank, how I wish I could sit at your feet!
P.S:
Thank God you don’t show your face!
Frankly speaking, when one does not listen to one´s voice and follows the religious fashion trends, one becomes satirist like Frank.
Very cleva, Frank.
Marvellous stuff, Frank.
The only thing worth remembering for me about Sarjano is that he makes the best pizzas & after White Robe there would be serpentine queues in Meera Café. A friend told me he runs a pizzeria in Goa these days!
“Bring back compulsory disciplehood, I say…The kids these days just don`t seem to have the grittiness that we did back then…
A good spell in uniform would do ‘em the world of good…Give ‘em a sense of purposelessness and they could find out who they really are…
Back then, if you stepped out of line, the local therapist would give you a good clip round the ego and send you on your way…We used to have a spiritual empire once – then the bloody politicians and lawyers gave it all away…
In them days the officers would call a spade a fucking spade…and if they fancied a quickie in the mess, you`d jump to it…
These days you`d have the PC brigade knocking at your door and banging on about human rights…
It never did me any harm…
Best days of my life….”
That generation grew up around, certainly fathers who had been in the forces in the West (‘baby boomers’ mostly) and some mothers, and the younger parents had done national service in the UK. Torn between their parents’ puritanism and the hedonism of their own generation.
P.S:
Did you do national service, Frank, or is it havin’ been head boy of Eton makes you so acerbic?
What is left in the name of Centering and Encounter:
You punch the politicians,
We will shout, “Osho, Osho.”
You hit priests on their bums,
We will shout, “Osho, Osho.”
You wear the handcuffs,
We will shout, “Osho, Osho.”
You drink the poison,
We will shout, “Osho, Osho.”
We love you very much,
We always say, “Osho, Osho.”
Don´t forget to give us Enlightenment,
We have always said, “Osho, Osho.”
First time I have seen one quotation, “We must learn not only to answer the questions, but also to question the answers.”
Maybe the origin of this quotation is Chinese Buddhism but seems quite powerful in the centering process.
Two days before, link posted by Simond about religious loyalties was also very touching. Its taste is still in my brain. I had not seen this O discourse before.
The Centering group was basically a beginners group, an introduction before signing up for the more intense groups. Somewhere during that time I worked in the groups department. My mornings were spent cleaning the group room showers, afternoons giving individual sessions.
Cleaning toilets in the ashram was viewed at the time as being right up there close to enlightenment, the lowest being the highest etc. It was, of course, bullshit, or human shit in this particular situation.
I saw a lot of shit during that time. What I never witnessed was anyone fucking in the toilets, like rabbits or otherwise. It may have happened, but if you ask me, this is sensationalist hype. All part of the sex guru story, which was never really all it was cracked up to be.
So there was me, a big, hairy, naked Scotsman, wearing green rubber boots and wielding a hosepipe. It was smelly and entertaining work, or worship, to be politically correct. The primal participants often wore large nappies and had to come up to the toilets to shit their guts out from nervous anxiety. Booof! Splat! There goes another one. Of course, Delhi Belly was the main culprit, especially for the newbies in Centering. Some of the girls were beautiful, and yes, I probably made a couple of dates in the toilets.
So there you have it. In many months I never once saw a hint of sexual activity in the group toilets. Pity the author experiences the need to make their writing more interesting by bringing in quickies in the lavvy. Then again, maybe it just never happened on my shit shift. Can’t see any obvious reason for that. I was a nice healthy lad back in those days and I was up for anything.
Ahhh…those were the days. I can still remember the arousing pong of intestinal gas….
Well done. You’ve managed to write that without name-dropping or sounding like you’re blowing your own trumpet as you usually do.
And I agree with you, I never saw any sexual activity in the communal showers, in fact was rather friendly and laid back, relaxed after the first time.
You’ve reminded me that the best thing about Poona 1 was all the low-key, ordinary stuff that had so much flavour. Not all those sensationalist goings-on. Being able to to talk to people, so many people, in a non-competitive way, just sharing, and enthusiastically, the playfulness, the warmth, the delight in being there, the delight we felt when we talked about Bhagwan. Delighting in the weather, the Quiet; as in stillness, tangible silence, if I listened.
Running into someone after a few days and getting so much in that moment from the chance meeting. The small became big, but in the most positive way, not mountains out of molehills. (Although that happened, which sometimes included buttons being pressed, but everything moved so fast. If something difficult happened it wasn’t the beginning of an enmity that would last for eternity, would be over and forgotten just like that).
I don´t think Lokesh, Arpana or SD had ever seen or indulged into any kind of sexual or romantic activity around Punja Ji, Barry Long or around Ms.Meera, or any other great Advaita uncle or aunt?
Question is, was Osho so desperate to win the loyalty of western disciples and therefore pimping for them, as that toothless UG has mentioned in one of youtube video?
When vision gets corrupted by the followers, freedom becomes licentiousness and this is one main reason for Osho and Sannyas ending up as footnote of fast-moving world.
There is no sign of remorse, no sign of correcting the mistake, no revolt against the corrupter, and hopes so great as if Existence is waiting with bucket full of flowers to shower on great seekers of eternal truth.
MOD:
HAVING CONSIDERED YOUR POST WE WERE GOING TO DELETE THE LAST TWO PARAGRAPHS, Shantam, BUT ALLOWED THEM DUE TO THE RESPONSES THEY RECEIVED.
AS WE’VE MADE CLEAR, SN IS NOT TO BE USED AS A VEHICLE FOR ONGOING PROMOTION OF A SINGLE VIEWPOINT (ESPECIALLY ONE EXPRESSED BY JUST A SINGLE PERSON) AND SO YOUR COMPLAINTS ABOUT ‘THE PUNE ASHRAM REGIME’ ARE GOING TO BE SEVERELY RATIONED, ESPECIALLY IF THEY’RE IRRELEVANT TO THE TOPIC.
Disclaimer:
The names I have used only as generic collective. It is really not to insult any of my fellow writers.
Matter of the fact is, I don´t see any writer at sannyasnews who can be directly or indirectly be blamed for any debacle around Osho, whether in Pune 1, Rajneeshpuram, Pune 2 or Pune nowhere.
Get Real, Shantam Prem!
And getting r e a l is one of the gifts any Centering Practising Process has in its invisible buckets for you, but only if you yourself are a practitioner.
And if you practise before sitting before your computer, to send judgements about totally unknown to you other existing sentient beings like:
“There is no sign of remorse, no sign of correcting the mistake, no revolt against the corrupter, and hopes so great as if Existence is waiting with bucket full of flowers to shower on great seekers of eternal truth.” (Shantam at 4.46 pm)
Then – to your and our and ´Existence’s´ great benefit – such of your statements (as quoted above) would just dissolve and disappear in an instant. Just the Magic of getting/being r e a l…
And the later Blessing effect of successful progress then would be so much more than “buckets full of flowers”!
Madhu
Shantam, the Beedie Wallah describes gurus as signposts on the way. Masters can point the way out but it is you that must walk it. Time appears to pass and with it gurus. Osho has been dead for over twenty years now. I do not know about anyone else on this site, but I know for sure that Osho was a stepping stone for me. I have moved on, well aware that I have much to be grateful to Osho for because I would not be where I am now without his guidance’ and where I am now is much better compared to where I was back in the 70s.
You say, “When vision gets corrupted by the followers, freedom becomes licentiousness and this is one main reason for Osho and Sannyas ending up as footnote of fast-moving world.”
I do not agree with that at all. No need to argue about it. Osho did a pretty good job of corrupting his own vision, so well did he do this that he was in no need of help from his followers.
It is interesting in retrospect to hear what Osho had to say for himself in the early days, so full of life, rebellion and insight and how much of that went out the window towards the end of his life, when he became capable of justifying any old nonsense that suited him.
Interesting maybe, but really one has to ask what difference does it make to my life now? None, in my case. I am older and hopefully a little wiser. We come into this world, do our wee jig and then we are gone. Osho did his dance and it was a crazy, fun-filled and highly educational one.
There is no need for remorse or undoing mistakes as you mistakenly appear to believe. It is what it is. Take it or leave it.
Oh, Poona 1!
You were so good, so intense, people still feel hairs of their shaved armpits standing.
Question is, who gave the idea of America to founder of Poona 1? One simply cannot fly Ambassador Car, even if you run it on full speed on JFK airport runways!
I also never saw any corporeal activity in the group toilets and showers in Pune 1. What an awful place for intimacy anyway.
But as an ‘experience’ it was up there. Communal shitting and in India at that time – left me with a certain life experience…
SD: I saw all the Poona 1 groups as forms of play – not really group psychotherapy. It seems that maybe others saw it differently, such as yourself.
In the end, I saw all the groups as a preparation for the final group of “work” in the ashram. And if managed in the right way, that also was play. But the pity of it was that many began to take it seriously, and behaved with hubris, and many reached such shores without having done the preparatory groups.
I can be corrected, but I suspect that Sheela never did any groups. Dr. Amrito once said he had only ever done three groups, etc.
Big P, I think you`ve nailed it.
‘Play’ is the key word.
Osho-therapy in all its forms is not really therapy at all.
No less a luminary in the field than Rajen stated as much here on SN not so long ago in an article titled:
‘ “Therapy”. The apostrophes are meaningful.’**
And the first line:
“I don’t regard what was happening there as therapy even if most people called it that.”
You say it yourself:
“Communal shitting and in India at that time – left me with a certain life experience…”
Shitting in public, shagging in the bog, cleaning the bog, inventing a new water-jet for the bog, dressing up as a holy man/woman, being a Gurdjieffian odd-job man, sitting around doing nothing etc. etc…all part of going beyond Mr. Jones of 33, Acacia Avenue…for sure…
More like a real-time psychodrama play.
Those with a little imagination and verve may find a way to bring a little of that spirit into their lives even now.
**Now I come to think of it, he probably meant ‘inverted commas’ rather than apostrophes. I guess he was better at pulling the birds than grammar – more power to his elbow!
Well, the reports I have of the Encounter and even the Tantra group indicate that for at least some participants the word “play” is a complete and utter misnomer!
Centering, though, definitely qualified in the brief random survey I conducted this evening.
Personally, anything less like “play” than Somendra’s 3 months group I can barely imagine. Well, that’s not entirely true, I suppose, I guess Auschwitz would have run it pretty close….
SD, you are remembering this gentleman?
http://michaelbarnett.net/
If yes, why not visit him rather than living in the past like the editor and few bloggers?
If few people have the choice they will happily eradicate all Osho history post-Poona 1.
You are welcome to stay in my low budget flat for your pilgrimage to this gentleman.
Shantam, thanks for the offer but travelling to see him would, I’m sure, be a complete and utter waste of time.
Although I guess I could write a letter.
SD,
If you experienced the 3 month group as really not play then I suspect that would indicate also that the therapy didn`t `work`?
Kids who have been in war zones and are heavily traumatised lose their ability to play. When they start to play again, those around them know that they are getting well again.
‘Normal’ adults aren`t so much different. Recovery of the play function is the healer of traumas large and small, across the board.
Osho said “seriousness is a disease”. That`s probably more literal than people imagine..
Ok, you can`t just play or laugh your way out of every suffering. Life is painful, too. But on average, the value of ‘play’ is heavily undervalued. Relegated to ‘just a game’, time-wasting, something childish or rather silly that you have to grow out of.
This is a disaster.
Frank, some interesting points, but to suggest that not being entirely playful for three months, locked up in a room in such a situation, is a failing, that is a bit heavy.
I put to you the most playful of kids wouldn’t be playful for that length of time in such a situation.
I did groups for about six months back-to-back, and I’d had enough. Sometimes I was as high as a kite, and sometimes abjectly miserable. Maybe the lesson of that is it’s all part of life. Dark and light. (Most people’s life difficulties stem from the idea only light is good, dark is to be avoided at all costs).
I was out with friends the other day. Had a great time, laughing and joking. Now I don’t even want to talk to anyone for a bit. It doesn’t make the get-together a failure.
Frank boy, you are so right!
When playfulness arises from one’s own being, in any situation in life, good or bad, it’s freedom starting off.
You, Oshite. XXX
MOD:
Tan, DO YOU MEAN Oshoite?!!
@ moderators:
After listening, from Lokesh and endorsed by Frank boy, so much about shit, toilets, quickies in lavatory (not happening), shitting their guts out, and so on…
I think Oshite is very appropriate, or would be better Oshit?
Well, you are the moderators, choose the best option. X
I am not a moderator, Tan, but I am just in the mood; and why not try another version – like:
‘Oh – SHIT!’
Or:
‘Shit is (just) happening’?
That would – in my eyes – differentiate a little bit more (and needed, I feel) the bunch of ´therapriests´ (invented idiom from one of the two guys – or both? – you clap by chance your “XXX” and more quite often) – differntiate it then from the clients of ´therapriests’ (which is special Karma in itself) and differenctate it from the Master´s Voice.
All the varieties of misunderstanding – in any of the sections versus some understandings and the sometimes very crude mixture of all of that (also Karma, I suggest).
I had my ´chance… with posting into the Rajen (Alan Lowen) topic thread…and also into other topics, did my best to respond and my best to avoid further harm concerning ´calamities´. And have been and am grateful for the opportunity here.
“It is what is” – that´s not only what Lokesh here sugguested – but me too.
And I love the poem of Erich Fried. With the same title. It´s a love poem, of one who knows what he is talking about (you can google it, if you are interested).
You may also like it? Who knows?
Madhu
“‘Shit is (just) happening’” and “It is what is” – that´s not only what Lokesh here suggested – but me too.”
Wise words, Madhu.
Do you think they’re worth (or even possible) applying to your perennial complaints about street harassment by ‘smartphone gamesters’, ‘data thieves’ and other online and offline criminals who appear to specialise in making your life difficult?
Thanks for asking that question, Satyadeva.
No, I confess, I am mostly not able to apply these wise words in a balanced way or let us say a ´cool’ way .
But what I can say is that I am working on it, not to drown too much in a sea of bitterness, regret and rage. tTe poem I have recommended to Tan is of a poet who really knows that ´Shit Happens´and yet he wrote that poem – much more authentic for me than other suffocating sweet stuff of people in dreams or trance-like or even mantric stuff to hypnotise themselves.
No, to answer you, it’s always work to apply these words and never easily just repeated. And sometimes screamed in rage at my place.
Shit happens. Indeed.
And even if love is not happening to me, it doesn´t mean that love, solidarity, honesty, integrity and so on don´t exist at all.
Is that an answer for you?
Madhu
Madhu,
Loved the poem because it’s simple and straightforward. Enjoyed it very much. Thanks for that.
And when you say “even if love is not happening to me”, I can’t believe it because you are a very sensitive woman, all made of love; how is it not happening to you?
I do like “shit happens”, much better, thanks for that too. XXX
“you are a very sensitive woman, all made of love; how is it not happening to you?” (Tan)
Well, what to say, Tan?
In the very very depths we all are made of all love – so what you write here is to apply for everybody here, you, me, everybody !
Nothing extraordinary, yet very extraordinary. A gift.
Some, though, belong to a scar clan, while walking the path of life, how Clarissa Estes (a Jungian woman fellow travellor healer) likes to name it. It just ´happens.
Some others go apparently more easil (this time).
Me – I am trapped for about thirty years and a little more in some really powerful ´post-hypnotic suggestion (mildly said), and that I am still alive must be out of love received, as also love giving.
Even though it really doesn´t look like so often, neither by others here (who wouldn´t join your view!) nor, I must say, by me myself, as my life is indeed thoroughly limited and also having indeed to face very uncomfortable stuff in all social areas.
No exaggeration! (as Satyadeva likes to see it – probably through his kind of ´glasses…I learned more about by now).
However, it must be love both the ways, to keep me moving.
Today afternoon, I have been looking again at older thread topics and responses, and I am very grateful to be able to do that. As it helps me dissolving indigestibles like an ancient cow.
And who knows, for me it’s grace if some heavy stuff is allowed to disappear. But I have to give some effort to it…to work it out…and also leave the ´rest to God or howsoever one will name that, we don´t have any influence upon.
This is very long, the response, maybe too long a response, Tan. But I didn´t feel so easy with your from faraway beautiful description.
In the love to this Master, Tan, we surely meet, even if we live quite different lives.
Madhu
“Me – I am trapped for about thirty years and a little more in some really powerful ´post-hypnotic suggestion (mildly said)…”
What does this mean, please, Madhu? What was/is this “post-hypnotic suggestion”, and who or what transmitted it to you?
Presumably, you’re referring to an accumulation of negative influences (within and/or without) that have been extremely difficult to resist?
“No exaggeration! (as Satyadeva likes to see it – probably through his kind of ´glasses…I learned more about by now).”
I’m not clear what you mean here, Madhu. Do you think I think you tend to exaggerate the difficulties you face?
Madhu,
Like Satyadeva, I am a bit disappointed by your answer. I still would like to know more about “post hypnotic suggestion” (mildly said).
Madhu, we all here are in the same Zoo, maybe if you share with us it will be easier to get rid of the shit. Furthermore, online is easier…What about it? XXX
Tan said:
“we all here are in the same Zoo”
I like that.
╭( ･ㅂ･)و ̑̑ ˂ᵒ͜͡ᵏᵎ⁾✩
Yes, Frank, you’d be absolutely correct to infer that “the therapy didn’t work”, certainly not for me and, I strongly suspect, many or possibly even all of the others.
In any case, it must have been a disappointment as (in retrospect, quite laughably) the course had been billed as ‘going beyond’ mere therapy, its title, ‘Freefallers’, suggesting the danger and the ‘high’ – yes, the ‘play’ – of jumping from an aircraft without opening the parachute until the last moment…With the gifted leader’s shamanistic ‘energy processing’ talents available to ensure ‘happy landings’ and a smooth entry to ‘higher energetic realms’. My God, what fun! Well, that was the theory anyway…
Your description might have been applied to at least a few of us in that situation:
“Kids who have been in war zones and are heavily traumatised lose their ability to play.”
The reality was that we all experienced “danger”, much of the time the atmosphere being pervaded by the threat of incipient violence; in fact I’ve never been in a situation where so many people were experiencing fearful anticipation for so long, including a classic ploy of that time, being ‘smothered’ by cushions, which made it hard for the victim to breathe, thus tending to induce panic – “releasing the conditions for a potential energetic breakthrough”, as Somendra enthusiastically explained (although the only “breakthrough” I ever witnessed or experienced was the immense relief when the torture – as that’s what it was – ended).
But there were precious few ‘highs’, little or no sense of exhilaration, of ‘breaking through’ (absolutely none in my case). Much of the time I had the impression that most or all of the people were holding out until the next meal break, to get relief from the oppressive tedium of it all. Not a lot of fun at all, ie hardly ‘play’!
Somendra, being no fool, realised this and put it down to “personality problems” permeating the group, these individual and collective impasses blocking access to the headier realms of freedom that his promo blurb had seemed to promise.
The fact was that at least several of the 18 or so members should never have been admitted in the first place, there should have been a much stricter, more ‘professional’ vetting of applicants, taking into account their mental and physical health, and general life situation, including work, housing and finance.
But that would, of course, have been absolute anathema, totally contrary to the ‘anti-conventional therapy’ ethos Somendra himself (as Michael Barnett) had helped to create in the PMP organisation (‘People Not Psychiatry’) in the 70s, inspired by R.D. Laing and the Californian ‘growth movement’ – and, crucially, of course, by Bhagwan himself in Pune 1.
After all, ‘if Bhagwan accepts allcomers, with no limits, in the name of psycho-spiritual freedom, then so should his ‘elite’ therapists’, was undoubtedly the rationale informing that sort of enterprise.
That’s a perfect description of art school degree life for me as a mature student, whereas the foundation year was in some ways the best year of my life up until then. Never had my buttons pressed so fiercely before, or since, on a daily, weekly, termly basis, twelve terms in total; although I did thirty years worth of painting in the time, and developed that much as well.
“What does this mean, please, Madhu? What was/is this “post-hypnotic suggestion”, and who or what transmitted it to you?” (Satyadeva, 12.33 pm))
“I’m not clear what you mean here, Madhu. Do you think I think you tend to exaggerate the difficulties you face?” (Satyadeva, 12.40 pm)
Your investigative questions to me, Satyadeva, where you refer to one of my responses, given to Tan, had no reply button underneath. So I am answering here.
Yes, Satyadeva, most of your responses, when I am reporting some harassment I am facing – former ones or nowadays ones – leave indeed in me the impression, that I have no credibility in your eyes; you (as others here too, like to speak of ´complaining´).
If you are more interested, you may re-read what I posted at the topic, August 2014 (about my experiences with Rajen in an individual counselling session in RIMU at that time). It was a 2014 thread, where you were nicely served in response by Alan, when you reported of your experiences with Michael, formerly Somendra, and addressed your questions to Alan.
I also appreciated the vid with Ian on `Conscious TV, and I appreciated Alan´s answer (2014), given to go in that open source, caravanserai.
And I remember the impression of mine, how distinguished and utterly careful and so polite your request had been.
This very day, I appreciated the verbally warm and brotherly embrace you got from Frank, and even if it is not addressed to me , I simply love it.
And Satyadeva, if Tan wants to answer my post to her, she will do it, I guess; she doesn´t seem that timid.
In circle repetitions, the issues of therapy and “calamities”,´as Parmartha named it, have been ever again subject or topic of discussion. Sometimes respectful. Sometimes not.
Frank´s today´s contribution (11.29 am ) is rather one of the highlights to some of the dark spots in that area in former times up to today. In Sannyas, but also other realms. To what amount Frank’s´s warmth, or Arpana´s warmth (then in the follow -up) or your warmth is here stretched to a female sannyasin´s testimony (of abuse) too, I don´t know here.
I simply enjoyed Frank´s very clear statements about history today, and few presumptions of what might not be resolved even by now in ‘cult-therapy’ (also in Sannyas) with the danger developing in ‘authoritarian’ ways. And the after-effects of that.
I simply enjoyed to at least read the mix of informed intelligence and emotionally warm stuff.
So at this point, I say thank you to Frank.
Madhu
Well, Madhu, I’ve researched your relevant comments at that August 2014 thread but am essentially none the wiser as to what trauma caused you to be hospitalised at the Ranch, from which you say you still haven’t recovered.
You write of a man in a “rage” and his “replications” – but what do you mean by this? Were you badly beaten up, or what?
Sorry, Satyadeva and also Tan, that I have to disappoint your eagerness to know it all precisely.
The story itself is also more complex and doesn´t belong here on the internet and a totally open source.
Just to say, I have not been beaten up bodily´badly, as you suggested, Satyadeva.
Rajen´s rage took other screaming turns (I had been totally incapable to cope with or to answer just a single word or move – I was frozen as a stone in an instant). The procedure was far more efficient than having been beaten up.
The few days in the Rajneshpuram clinic, into which I had been deported and kept in isolation there right after the session – in deep shock and trauma completed the procedure.
Back in Germany, late that summer, I got very, very sick in the body for about more than a half year, then found a health practitioner with some understanding how deep shock and trauma does afflict the body too.
In early 1985 I returned to the Ranch then, but was never been able to approach Rajen again there.
Autumn 1985, I wrote a first long letter to Rajen to the address of the Humaniversity, Holland, where he did reside at that time after the closure of the Ranch.
His postal answer to that letter was a coloured postcard with a boxing glove on it, and on the big pictured boxing glove with a lipstick ´kiss’-imprint on it.
Took me another long time for another try to approach the issue with him.
1999, took courage to phone Rajen in his – at that time Swiss – office from where some of his trainings were organized.
His answer, after listening in a friendly way, was: “Come and book my workshop series.” I have been neither capable nor willing to do that.
What I want to say here, that the stuff that belongs to us ´two´ I have tried (not successfully) to clear with him alone.
The chat on base of the internet, Tan – or maybe Satydeva too (?) – is not by any means a guarantee to end up with an ´happy internal ending´, in the case of very heavy psychic and traumatic stuff, I feel.
What I remember though is that I booked a lot of sessions after that and also some groups here in Munich, besides the daily meditations in the TAO centre.
I can very well relate to Frank´s this morning´s summary of ´therapeutic conditionings’ – inside and outside the Sannyas realms.
Outside the Sannyas realms I met such a load of prejudices (about ‘our’ sex and crime…Sannyas History), formed by an ugly yellow press and more. Even nowadays, after decades, it is hard to find somebody professional with an open mind.
Inside the scene, in my various approaches, it has also been quite difficult to find a company of professional support beyond subtle or open re-shaming and re-degrading and this way perpetrating traumatic stuff.
The online writing, Tan – into a more or less anonymous space – has its limits as a helping agent on the personal level.
Sorry to disappoint you two, Satyadeva and Tan, by not giving more information than I already did.
Madhu
P.S:
Btw, I feel I gave and give a lot of personal information these last years, I feel….
Thanks for this extra info about the source of your ongoing trauma, Madhu.
On the face of it, without knowing exactly what the circumstances were that apparently provoked Rajen into such an outburst of obviously terrifying and damaging rage, the whole scenario reeks of abuse by a therapist on a client – or, if such terms are deemed inappropriate for the rarified realms of Sannyas-style groups, by the strong on the weak, or even, by the ‘knowing’ and powerful on the more innocent and gullible. Not to mention any possible transference that might have been going on, eg regarding him as a father-figure, all-knowing wise man, or ultra-attractive, Alpha-male ideal lover, which would surely have greatly compounded the shock of his reaction (note I’ve avoided writing ‘response’).
In fact, together with the fact that the perpetrator didn’t enquire re your welfare, that you had to chase him (and unsuccessfully) to try and get some sort of satisfactory closure, it’s quite possibly the sort of behaviour that would get a person struck off any professional register, or at least be severely censured and warned as to his future conduct.
But that, of course, is viewing the case through normal, ‘conventional’ standards, which are, certainly in therapy-related terms, anathema to the Sannyas-(de)conditioned mind, as several recent posts have confirmed, not least the references to Rajen’s perspective (August 2014). Because in Sannyas, with very few exceptions (eg the Primal group?) mere ‘therapy’ is an inferior concept and practice, Rajen preferring to call it “education”, a sort of ‘free-for-all’ process of growing in love, consciousness, ‘being’, for all involved, including, crucially, the ‘facilitator/’leader’.
Which conveniently lets him off the hook, of course, allowing him to indulge in what sounds like, from your description, Madhu, at best, insensitivity leading to professional misjudgment, at worst, profoundly selfish, grossly irresponsible bullying. Ie the very worst aspects of this mode of ‘exploration’, as clearly seen in its impact upon you.
Yes, it’s easy enough to pass it all off as ‘par for the course’, ‘fortunes of war’, ‘bound to happen to some’, ‘people getting what they deserve’, ie ‘it’s their karma’, ‘the spiritual path is not for weaklings’, ‘shit happens’ etc. etc. – IF one hasn’t been adversely affected by similar instances oneself. However, I’d like to hear such blithe-sounding judgments from those commentators should they ever be on the receiving end of similar abuse.
I wonder, also, whether Rajen might have been protecting himself against possible legal action by not bothering about you, Madhu, until you took the trouble of approaching him? Or had all participants signed a document excluding him and any other ‘promoter’ of the event from any such liability? Or was it that he himself adhered to the sort of beliefs about such matters listed above? Or was he really too busy, too enmeshed in his own precious process to bother? Or, did he simply not give a shit?
Btw, was his offer to join his next series of groups conditional on you paying for them, or did he offer them as a gift? I suspect you would have had to pay, again as a freebie might be construed as an admission of ‘guilt’ in any future legal case you might have brought. Or, of course, it might never have occurred to him that he ‘owed’ you something.
SD or Madhu,
Have you ever read ‘Against Therapy’, subtitled: ‘Emotional Tyranny and the Myth of Psychological Healing’, by Jeffrey Masson?
He presents a detailed argument, backed up both historically and with his experience as a psycho-analyst – that it is the nature and structure of Therapy per se that is the problem (even the touchy-feely humanistc stuff).
It`s an extreme view and not popular at all, especially amongst therapists, but, I found, disturbingly difficult to completely dismiss, if you follow his drift.
No, never heard of it, Frank. Perhaps I’ll get hold of it and, er, see what all the fuss is about…Thanks for the tip.
And btw, I appreciated your response to my ‘Somendra group’ tales the other day. Thanks. If only someone had said that sort of thing all those years ago….
Great post, Satyadeva!
There you are, Madhu, Rajen was really shit happening to you! What a nasty chap! Hope he is reading it, and has the courage to explain himself here.
SD,
Cheers.
I wish I had been so wise when I was younger too!
Life doesn`t work like that.
Damn!
Hi SD,
I think Somendra, or his acolytes, should have refused you entry to this group. Clearly it was all too much for you.
But it is worth doing a thought experiment:
How would you have felt had he refused you, and how would you have dealt with that?
Please correct me if I am wrong, but in Poona 1, all Indians and some other nationalities were never allowed near an Encounter group, and many complained.
Somendra should have sent you immediately to the Centering Group in Pune, and told you to forget about these cathartic-type therapies for a while.
G’day, Parmartha, you asked me the same question nearly two years ago here (August 24, 2014) (after, as Madhu pointed out, I’d said my piece re the Somendra group) – must be Groundhog Day (but this will be the last such repeat dose).
Here’s how I replied then (much reduced), which is still how I see it:
“Definitely a good point, Parmartha, although I’ve always realised that not being allowed to do that group would have been extremely disappointing, to say the least, as, in naivete born of relative youth, inexperience and desperation, plus Somendra’s exciting words re ‘potential’, I really hoped and even believed it would be ‘the answer’!
I suggest what should ideally happen (and should ideally have happened then) was for any ‘rejects’ to be carefully informed as to the reasons for their exclusion – and, crucially, to be recommended or offered one-on-one counselling/therapy (whatever) to help them move on, to do what it takes to get themselves together (or more together), so that they might hopefully be ‘ready’ for a similar enterprise in the future (should they still be interested).
But at the end of the Intensive, all he could say to me was that I “should go to Poona” as “there’s much more of a community there now” and it was “a waste of time” for me to do any more groups in England “at the level they’re at”. I suppose he meant well, but how on earth he expected me to do that in the state I was in, God only knows. It might have been helpful to have received some more practical, grounded help and advice as to how to proceed from ‘rock bottom’, but that wasn’t what he was about, apparently. Whereas I think such counselling is crucial in that sort of situation.
At the end, when I was still in significant financial arrears with the fees, barely having made ends meet before and during it all, he simply suggested I “get a better-paid job”, in the tone of voice which implied that was somehow pretty straightforward, even easy, which at that point it most certainly was not, demonstrating what little grasp he had of such basic realities of my real life practical situation…
The sort of ‘vulnerable’ people excluded from groups are exactly those that need individual attention, or less ‘extreme’, less ‘confrontational’, more gently ‘supportive’ situations, aren’t they?
In darshan, Osho himself used to choose groups for people, including steering them away from inappropriate ones. I recall that he wouldn’t even allow me to engage in one-on-one ‘madness competitions’ (where the idea was to ‘defeat’ the other person by being ‘madder’ than him/her), gently advising me to “do it alone”. This, despite the fact, obvious to me (and confirmed by him) that I needed “much catharsis”. “
Should, could, would, ought…
This conversation is getting oughtistic!
‘Oughtism’ shields one from the fact that something hasn`t worked the way we wanted it.
And it also helps to prevent similar mistakes from being repeated. Aka ‘learning from experience’, ‘improvement’ and ‘progress’!
I definitely don`t buy into the idea that SD`s bad therapy experiences make him a `failure` as Arps implies. Far from it.
The idea that the failure of a therapy somehow shows the inadequacy and ‘negativity’ of the customer and does not reflect badly on the therapy itself or its propagators is a dangerously authoritarian and self-serving viewpoint.
It is very, very common. For example: Try and name a therapy of which its proponents do not hold that view (or religions and cults, of course). This can and invariably does, set up an entirely imbalanced power structure (and then people are surprised when it fuels and turns into “a taste of fascism”).
The whole concept of the therapee`s ‘resistance’ that came from the psycho-analytic stable and entered sannyas therapy largely through Reichian ideas and meshed perfectly with ‘having an ego/mind that has to be got rid of’ is very suspect if you take a clear look at it. It becomes a form of shaming that is found in every cult situation and finds justification for a plethora of abuses.
It is quite malignant in that the victims, or in milder situations, the ones who have compromised themselves by internalising the authoritarian ideals, are guilty and ashamed of their lack of progress, low level of consciousness, poor level of surrender, attachment to their mind etc. etc. so they keep schtum.
Thus, the authoritarians remain in power, and, more subtly, the victims/participants can never quite free themselves from the authoritarian ghosts in their head.
Just say No, bro.
Or, if you want to be more sannyas-therapeutically-correct about it:
Just say “Yes” to saying “No”!
I wasn’t suggesting SD was a failure. I got the impression you were suggesting he was.
My bad. Sorry about that.
Osho has on occasions said to approach meditating playfully. Have always thought that if I could have approached meditation playfully I wouldn’t have needed to bother.
I meditated because I committed myself, said to myself, “I will keep doing this ‘come hell or high water’, until I just stop, it falls away by itself.”
This approach paid off for me.
“The whole concept of the therapee`s ‘resistance’ that came from the psycho-analytic stable and entered sannyas therapy largely through Reichian ideas and meshed perfectly with ‘having an ego/mind that has to be got rid of’ is very suspect if you take a clear look at it. It becomes a form of shaming that is found in every cult situation and finds justification for a plethora of abuses.”
Shaming quite well describes the net effect on me of that group I wrote about, the irony being that it significantly consolidated, even increased, the deep-seated sense of lack of self-worth which I’d hoped to go a considerable way to dissolve by participating in the group.
SD, a thought:
But in my experience of these times, everything, and I mean everything, got worse before it got better.
I had a honeymoon period, which peaked doing groups, and went down and down, and round about the start of the Ranch, fell into the biggest hole of my life which took a year to climb out of (like being a teenager who shouldn’t have been drinking, but fifty times more shitty). And then I began the two steps forward, one step back upward climb.
“I had a honeymoon period, which peaked doing groups, and went down and down, and round about the start of the Ranch, fell into the biggest hole of my life which took a year to climb out of…”
Would any of those ‘down’ periods have coincided with your astrological Saturn Return, by any chance, Arps? Ie, from about age 27 years, 9 months to around 30 years, 3 months?
34 and 6 months, for about the following year. Although the trough, and I mean trough, happened about eight months later. And then I began to turn upwards, although was still so fucking awful, it was years before I could see that was true. And then began to ‘hit my stride’ a few months after my 37th birthday.
Years after I went through those experiences I came across a passage in a Darshan Diary, which unfortunately I don’t remember the name of, in which Osho describes to a Swami the hell he’s going to go through in detail, a detailed description of what I would go through. And the Darshan Diary was dated before I took Sannyas, years before I went through that bloody awful time.
SD, I guess that`s the downside of authoritarianism, which, like fascism, operates with the introduction of a binding ideology and a set of prescribed actions, particularly personified by a ‘charismatic’ dictatorial leader, and ‘works’ when feelings of excessive shame, inferiority and depression are converted to inflated pride, feelings of superiority and aggression.
We have seen that process close up here on SN with some of the followers of Brian and Arun. Waging war on the ‘rotten old man’ and non-meditators, unconscious masses, baboons etc. I expect most people here have been through a bit of that process in their time.
But it`s like smoking crack – you`ve got to come down eventually – unless you OD.
But it doesn`t work on everyone. In this analogy, you sound like someone who was allergic to crack! Maybe you were lucky!
Arps,
Playfulness can`t really be a prescription. The play therapy religion sub-cult would be just as daft as all the rest:
“Ja, my therapist has told me I need to work harder on my playfulness. The bright side of life must be looked on at all times! He has given me some techniques:
I have been memorising the Readers’ Digest joke book, wearing a red nose and slipping on a banana skin on my yoga mat 5 times a day.
Guru Banana has declared that if I am really serious about being playful I will become enlightened in this lifetime.Yahoo!”
Frank, I have met a lot of sannyasins who are very serious about not being serious, so I get your drift.
” ‘Oughtism’ shields one from the fact that something hasn`t worked the way we want it.” (Frank at 9.38 am)
That´s probably more than right, Frank; and I have to speak vaguely here, as information about some ´wantings and intentions´ has been missing at my place.
This very morning I have been strolling back again into the web-history, not only of this website but of myriads of others…once again looking at its founder, Paritosh (Sam); could almost sense his beauty of a Soul – and his so much good intentions, I guess.
Inspired by his lovers and his living family, I am asking myself:
Do ´we´need a ‘shield’?
What for?
And how is it ´painted´?
That it doesn´t function as a ´security´, not to speak of counter-productiveness even, is unquestionable, isn ´t it?
#Why not replace ´outhentic by ´authentic’?
And by that I mean, keeping, when chat- posting in mind and heart, that on the receiver’s place there might be (besides NSA and other firms) some sentient beings, rather than figures on a chess board, a Pokemon ´ghost´ or ´monster´, to shoot and capture for so called grown-ups, and so on and so forth…
I feel the Centering topic has been a full sucess btw, and has honoured the Founder of this website and his honourable ´keep it going-SN crew´ in unexpected, miraculous ways.
However, the cyber-situationist GAME rules may have to be re-visited and maybe updated in honouring what human-neo-Sannyas once has been (don´t shriek here now, please!).
You, Frank did the latter yesterday, by quoting: “Just say “Yes” to saying “No”!”
Well…sometimes…
In gratefulness. and my best wishes: may you have a beautiful Monday.
Madhu
“The online writing, Tan – into a more or less anonymous space – has its limits as a helping agent on the personal level.” (Madhu)
Quite true, Madhu. I doubt if nyone can help but maybe one’s own self; that too if one allows that tp happen.
“Madhu, we all here are in the same Zoo, maybe if you share with us it will be easier to get rid of the shit. Furthermore, online is easier…What about it? XXX” (Tan)
Tan, I guess online is easier only if basically one wants/needs to open up, whatever the case may be.
Quite right, Kavita. Quite right! XXX
I wouldn´t count on you two, Kavita, Tan, to stand by my side when I need support in the r e a l world.
And please don´t take this feedback personally, because it refers to life experiences of mine, as also to the fact that so much is happening that cannot be resolved sufficiently in the so-called personal realms.
Internet chat is quite a teacher to such.
I wouldn´t have liked to miss my life experiences of worshipping as a cleaner and most of the time as a laundry woman on the Ranch in Oregon.
And yesterday, I´ve been reminded of the two women who talked me into taking that ´everlasting counselling session in RIMU (1984); strong and beautiful women, having quite another cultural and personal background (like you have as well).
And it was me who allowed that, as other stuff which I couldn´t cope with, that happened in the very initial moments.
There is always a transpersonal context and background to anything happening. And there are often sometimes individuals then, taking a load of challenges which belong to a whole group, so to say.
And yet, dissolving and working it out, seems to be always ´indididual affairs´.
Female wisdom is very deep according to such matters. And takes quite some other turns than male wisdom, ‘getting it done’ approaches.
If both aspects work together in harmony it´s miraculous; if not, it may end in a catastrophe or calamity, as Parmartha likes to put it.
Shakespearean dramas are one thing. Life is another. Shakesspeare´s genius knew that, I presume.
That in time of Digital Natives, we so often appear like actors in our own life-story, being tossed and turned around like puppets on strings is -in my eyes – not a sign of real progress but more a sign of adaption problems with the fact, to what extent we are allowing ourselves to be ruled by technical progress.
Male and Female wisdom have – maybe – new challenges to reconcile and work together.
Take it easy, especially Tan, maybe re-read, Tan, if you don´t like it, what I am trying to express here.
With you, Kavita, I have the impression that you are able to simply throw whatsoever in the waste bucket, what may not be useful for you.
Yours both sincerely,
Madhu
P.S. for Tan:
As you were speaking of the “Zoo”, I´ve been reminded of an incident very, very beautiful. When – in the laundry trailer we asked for colour painting supply to paint cushion canvas.
I painted a fabulous and very beautiful Zoo then and there…and tears in the eyes of the elephant and a lot of monkeys. That was fun!
And Milarepa brought us fabulous tea break cakes….
Well, and at this spot I might add that I love such a celebration day like ´Guru Purnima´as an opportunity to celebrate the Masters outside as also developing ´mastery´ inside.
It´s beautiful, isn ´t it?
We don´t have that in this form here in our culture, it´s mostly ‘personalized’ in many ways here.
If we may grow more and more together, who knows if more and more celebration days are also happening?
So – Happy Guru Purnima to us all.
(and I am waiting for Frank: Huhuhuhhuuuhhh, with a smile).
Madhu
“I wouldn´t count on you two, Kavita, Tan, to stand by my side when I need support in the r e a l world.
And please don´t take this feedback personally, because it refers to life experiences of mine, as also to the fact that so much is happening that cannot be resolved sufficiently in the so-called personal realms.”
Madhu, not at all, I assure you. Actually you are right about me, I cannot be of help to anyone & I have no real guilt about that.
“And it was me who allowed that, as other stuff which I couldn´t cope with, that happened in the very initial moments.”
I don’t know what to say about that, but only hope you may be able to help yourself whenever that happens.
“With you, Kavita, I have the impression that you are able to simply throw whatsoever in the waste bucket, what may not be useful for you.”
You are right again regarding this, my mother does say sometimes to some close family & friends, “In case you don’t see me around there are chances I may have landed in the bin.”! Madhu, I am very good at cleaning jobs!
Madhu, frankly I love the weather during Guru Pornima – this is my most favourite weather
“Madhu, I am very good at cleaning jobs!” (Kavita)
I believe it, Kavita; and although it takes a little more time to realise your compassion given to me in your response of yesterday I am about to send to you my ´thanks´ today – for your amount of honesty and the your clear way of responding, which may be possible in these virtual realms.
Frankly, Kavita, I also like the weather during Guru Purnima; has been fabulous, even here in this zone.
I really don’t know why, but it’s the gift of the moment, that I remember an Osho Darshan Diary (on my bookshelf) just now, titled: ‘What Is, Is, What Ain´t, Ain’t’.
Wow..!
Another view on twists of fate(s)…
A Smile to you, unknown, unknowable mysterious woman.
Madhu
P.S. for Kavita (only, hmmmm):
Recently I mentioned an artist here in Germany; in one of his numerous intallations in a museum he had chosen a special dirty space, fabulously installed, to make something clear. When in the evening the cleaner brigade came, this spot of the installation was thoroughly cleaned up. And then….in the morning…after opening the museum again…’oh, my god´…(you can imagine).
And just few days ago another hilarious event of this calibre happened in a famous museum: there – an artist had painted into his piece of art (on the wall and canvas) kind of ´questions, like in an interrogation with an open white space or something like that. An older woman, so it was said, took out her pencil, and completed the white spaces on the canvas with little accurate crosses, so just behaved as she does as a couch potato as a mental exercise.
Well, easy to imagine what happened then in between laughter from the whole community but also tears (from the artist and the museum´s security and administration etc.) when that was discovered and finally made it into some satirical media spaces (which we still have here, also if only on some outer media borders).
Thank you for your sharing, Madhu & btw, we all have that unknown, unknowable mysterious element waiting to surface, perhaps!
About Shantam Prem’s jokes, they have taught me to be very alert, though sometimes I do wish I am less alert!
P.S:
Madhu, btw, this clear way of responding, which may be possible in these virtual realms, is not the case with me, dear; even otherwise mostly I am quite forthright
Thank you, Kavita.
Just have been coming home after a very short bicycling tour; today´s weather in Bavaria, Germany reminds me of India.
Loved it to find some in the letter box…and closed the jalousie for a few hours…getting old…feels better this way…
Smile of cool Shade in shade.
Hmmmm.
Madhu
Moderators! male moderators!
what you have made out of my atempt to share that I closed my windows, that the heat cannot come into the flat so much, makes me angry ! not without reason!
jalousie is jalousie- some wodden stuff to keep the heat outside!
Anyway, me here takes much effort to use the dictionary to better understanding, you could do that too.
Not everybody is native english…in this world of ´chat.
correction please, even if that is too late (data-wise).
Madhu
MOD:
SORRY, Madhu, WE’D NEVER HEARD OF THIS WORD BEFORE – THANKS FOR THE INFO!
ALTHOUGH YOUR OUTRAGE MIGHT POSSIBLY BE ‘MODERATED’ (!) BY BEARING IN MIND THAT WE TAKE PLENTY OF TIME AND CARE EVERY DAY IN RE-PRESENTING YOUR POSTS (NOT THIS ONE (2pm) THOUGH!).
MAYBE YOU MIGHT CHECK THE PUBLISHED VERSIONS AND SO PREVENT YOURSELF REPEATING A FEW ERRORS?.
WHATEVER, ‘YOU ARE NOT THE TARGET’, AS THE SAYING GOES.
Dear Friends, Moderaors , Editors, Contributors, Onlookers, Anyone else I might have forgotten to mention here (and I include myself):
Mister Freud is not totally ´outdated, see (?), how that cool inside of my flat just now is serving me well for the moment.
Thank you well, to everybody.
Madhu
Madhu,
When I suggested you to “open up” on line, saying that it would help somehow, I was thinking about the “baboons” here.
I can’t help myself, Madhu, believe me!
The guys here, in SN, are quite good, have experience in dealing with ‘Osho’s traumas’, and have a heart of gold, even if they deny it. I guess the reason is they can afford to be sincere and don’t have any ‘agenda’ at all.
About the Zoo, I’ve never seen a monkey crying. I’ve seen them sad, but not crying. XXX
Tan,
Thank you very much for your response, but you didn´t get it that in my former ZOO drawing it’s the ELEPHANT who had tears in his eye, the monkeys NOT. And that had to be important to me when I drew that, amidst the wonderful company in the Walt Whitman Valley trailer (otherwise…the painted monkeys were more into wild chaotic play and more into something that resembles faintly (human) laughter…
Second point:
You write: “The guys here, in SN, are quite good, have experience in dealing with ‘Osho’s trauma’, and have a heart of gold, even if they deny it.”
I would say:
If you, Tan, have such an eye on stuff happening here, the “heart of gold” is simply your own! And inside yourself! And I would add: Congratulations.
Like the other day, when one of the guys (was it Arpana, or Satyadeva?) responded about your posted shopping list that day he responded that you have won in the lottery – remember?
The rare moments then, I really LOVE the posts, like this, as witty and beautiful and amazing…even if I don´t get it. Well, I have not reached the point of ´choiceless awareness yet.
Have a beautiful day,
With, or without shopping, Tan.
Madhu
SD, did you get into therapy to put something right? I ask this because I didn’t. Therapy was going on in Poona. I got involved. I’ve never thought about ‘did therapy work or not?’ I got into meditation to fix something.
Being in Poona changed something for me from which there was no going back; and I think at times that if I had not been able to keep going I could have ended in a dreadful hole. To repeat my remark of yesterday, backwards before going forward.
I also came to be more interested in therapy, meditation as therapy. And I also came to understand I was, had been seeking a panacea, an instant fix, and there wasn’t one, isn’t one – for me, anyway. So I am much more process-oriented these days, take everything as it comes, which is why, for example, Sannyas News works for me.
(*•̀ᴗ•́*)و ̑̑
Cheers, mod. Hope you’re having a nice day.
Have you checked out ‘Pokemon Go’ yet? You must. It’s a hoot.
MOD:
NO INTEREST IN THAT, I’M AFRAID.
P.S:
WHAT DOES THAT SIGN MEAN, PLEASE?
Yes, I most definitely did get into therapy “to put something right”, Arps. In fact, that “something” amounted to my entire life, which had hit the rocks at age 21.
I misphrased that question. I meant to ask you if you had got into Sannyas, to get into therapy, to sort something out.
No, Arps, I definitely didn’t get into Sannyas in order to get into therapy.
In fact, it was my initial contact with early sannyasins in London for dynamic and other active meditations (mainly wild dancing) that weaned me off therapy!
The therapy ‘nightmare’ came about 3 years later when, post-Pune, post-hepatitis, I’d sunk to depths I’d thought I’d left behind for ever, coinciding with ‘Saturn Return’.
Looking back, I made several poor key decisions in the 7 or so years after coming across ‘Bhagwan’ and his methods, including even going to India and/or staying for so long there (well over 9 months), enrolling for two professional training courses (when simply unfit to do them), doing that Somendra 3 months – and not returning to Pune when I was healthy and could afford it, about 4 years after I’d returned.
God. Ain’t Sannyas a trial and error road?
Thanks. Good to know about other individuals’ formative Sannyas experiences.
Are you an adult TCK, by chance?
https://en.wiki2.org/wiki/Third_culture_kid
@ Frank.
18 July, 2016 at 5:55 pm
I recall a T.A practitioner, in the mid-70s, so early days of ‘therapies’ other than psychoanalysis, saying that those who needed therapy least benefited most from it.
Tbh, Arps, that sounds like more self-serving crap.
What does TA stand for?
Total Arsehole?
At the time it sounded sincere.
Was early days, Transactional Analysis.
Note the comment was also posted to your post, ‘Against Therapy’, subtitled: ‘Emotional Tyranny and the Myth of Psychological Healing’, by Jeffrey Masson.
Seems like today is a ‘Women’s Day’ on SN!
“Seems like today is a ‘Women’s Day’ on SN!” (Kavita)
No, Kavita, it is not, but it just seems, (appeared) to be….
Madhu
It is, Madhu! Let’s hope Naveena Yates sticks around.
My experience of the Centering Group, and in fact my whole experience of Poona 1 and the Ranch was that I got what I was ready to receive and all I saw was what I needed.
Taking Sannyas in Poona in June of 1979, Osho gave me Centering and some of the other ‘lightweight’ groups, while my girlfriend got Encounter and more confronting stuff right away (maybe I was deemed a lost cause for awareness off the top).
The Centering Group was huge – 200+ participants, held on the roof of a building, and Prasad the director of the three ring circus. Many Gurdjieff exercises and other challenges to the ways I thought my mind worked, and many opportunities to let go old conditionings.
At home in Canada I was a college teacher of an interaction/communication group course and found much of the Centering Group would help my work. I started taking notes. Prasad told me to drop it, mostly to get me out of my head, no doubt, but he also said he was preparing a book on the group himself and I could get what I needed there. I don’t think that book happened.
In any case, I got what I needed on many levels: a beginning of waking up, a start on being a sannyasin, a movement towards the heart. For my work, I got to see how to work with a large group, and many exercises that went straight into my work. In a way I have made a whole career of doing centering group.
I never saw all this sexual wildness in the Centering Group – most of that seemed to be confined to the overheated accusations of the local press and outsider gossip. The Poona taxi drivers would tell me lurid stories of what was “really” going on behind those gorgeous wood and brass gates. I found no more or less sex than any large bunch of really juicy people were having, and all the relationship and relationshit problems were just as much there, though we were all working them out in public.
The main point is that I never saw or even knew about the politics, the philosophical arguments, the backstage machinations in Poona or Oregon. I was there as a sannyasin, doing groups, listening to discourses, playing music at the drive-by, reading Osho books. I think that’s what I needed, and that’s what appeared to me.