Osho spoke this in 1984, in Lao Tzu House, Rajneeshpuram, Oregon, USA
On Friedrich Nietzsche’s Book: WILL TO POWER
He never published it while he was alive. It was published posthumously, and meanwhile, before it was published, many of your so-called great men had already stolen from the manuscript.
Alfred Adler was one of the ’greatest’ psychologists. He is one of the trinity of psychologists: Freud, Jung and Adler. He is simply a thief. Adler has stolen his whole psychology from Friedrich Nietzsche.
Adler says: Man’s basic instinct is the ’will to power’. Great! Who was he trying to deceive? Yet millions of fools are deceived. Adler is still counted as a great man. He is just a pygmy, only to be forgiven and forgotten.
Frederich Nietzsche
George Bernard Shaw steals his whole basic philosophy from Nietzsche. Great G.B.S. – Nobel prizewinner, George Bernard Shaw. Whatsoever he says is contained in only a few sentences of Nietzsche’s WILL TO POWER.
Even a so-called great Indian saint was not far behind Adler and Shaw. His name is Shri Aurobindo. He is worshipped by millions all over the world as the greatest sage of the age. He stole his idea of superman from the manuscript of WILL TO POWER. Shri Aurobindo was only a mediocre scholar, nothing much to brag about.
Nietzsche’s book was not published until many years after his death. His sister prevented it. She was a great businesswoman. She was selling other books which were already published, and waiting for the right moment when WILL TO POWER could best be sold. She was not concerned about Nietzsche, his philosophy, or his contribution to humanity.
Why didn’t Nietzsche himself publish the book while he was alive? I know why. It was too much even for him. He was not an enlightened man. He was afraid, afraid of what was going to happen to him if he published. And the book is pure dynamite! He always kept it under his pillow, even while asleep. He was afraid it may fall into the wrong hands. He was not a brave man as people usually think of him, he was a coward. But strange are the ways of existence: sometimes even a coward is showered with stars, and that’s what happened to Nietzsche.
Adolf Hitler stole his whole philosophy from Nietzsche. Hitler was incapable of doing anything right; he was such an idiot, he should really have been in India, not in Germany, and become a disciple of Muktananda. I can suggest a beautiful name for him: Swami Idiotananda! That’s what he was, the suprememost idiot of human history. He thought he understood Nietzsche. It is very difficult to understand Nietzsche; he is so subtle, so deep, and so profound. It is beyond the reach of any idiotananda.
Friedrich Nietzsche kept his best book to be published only after his death. I have already counted one of his books, THUS SPAKE ZARATHUSTRA, but even that pales before WILL TO POWER. It is not a philosophical treatise, written systematically, it is just maxims, paragraphs. You have to find the connection. It is not there written for you to read. Hence, even though it is published it is not read much. Who bothers! Who wants to make any effort? – and WILL TO POWER needs tremendous effort to understand it. It is the very essence of Friedrich Nietzsche’s soul. And he was a madman! To understand it is to transcend it too.
Will to power as a Pdf.
http://cnqzu.com/library/Philosophy/neoreaction/Friedrich%20Nietzsche/Friedrich_Nietzsche%20-%20The_Will_to_Power_(1968).pdf
Will to Power…
Aha.
If disciples have achieved some maturity to think and analyse they should dare to bare the will to power among the Dynamic, Kundalini, Nataraj doers. I mean, let us start discussing Sheela! Lols.
I just bought: ‘Will to Power’ by Friedrich Nietzsche et al.
http://www.amazon.de
Won’t help you, juvenile Shantam. You will never take over the running of the ashram. (You need a reading age higher than 13 to get through a book like that).
Arpana, believe me you won´t be banned in the ashram under my chairmanship.
Be thankful someone idealistic like me is willing to marry the vision of your/my/our late master; the vision which is being brutally molested, humiliated and raped in a worst case of domestic violence.
Shantam, be thankful someone idealistic like Parmartha, Dharmen and others are willing to give you a voice, but you will not be allowed to brutally molest, humiliate or rape anyone here, turn us into your domestic violence victims.
http://public.wsu.edu/~brians/hum_303/nietzsche.html
On the matter of influence…
Nikos Kazantzakis considered himself a ‘disciple’ of Nietzsche and his creation: ‘Zorba’ was his undisputed meisterwork expression/exploration of a man inhabiting this new non-religious way of living.
Thus the vision of Zorba the Buddha utterly bypasses every traditionally ‘religious’ idea except the practice of meditation.
Isn`t that what Osho was getting over in Pune 2, where the series of talks he gave in that whole time were only on 2 subjects: Zen and Nietzsche?
Excuse me for all this intellectual stuff, now I really must get down to the vision itself – so it`s down to the taverna, sink a few ouzos, go dancing and chase some younger women…all with total awareness, of course.
Frank, do you want to say indirectly, “Sexual exploitation of women in the name of Meditation is the Sannyas USP of Zorba the Buddha?”
As per my information, Sannyas, commune and ashram has been dropped from the Resort menu but real term life is still the same.
Retired oldies are recommended not to go to Thailand but Pune. In any case, wherever you go, carry ATM card with.
Ideas/vision wise, this Nietzsche lineage of influence that moves totally away from what he called the life-negative”ascetic ideal” so central to every single world religion, and towards an utter acceptance of the human is completely at loggerheads with any idea that Osho is a continuum of the religions of India ,in the Anand Yogi (and others) way.
The subtitle/working title of “Will to Power” that Osho claimed was so “dynamite” was “The revaluation of all values”
And for those still banging on about Osho`s vision going down the pan,it`s actually amazing to consider that ,despite and amongst all the madness,how much of it has/is coming to pass/happen.
Long may it continue.
Good old Frank. Bangin’ post. Yay.
Further to that. Maybe when people are leading rewarding, life-affirming existences they don’t need to band together in large groups, don’t need to cling to each other. That’s just a ‘misery loves company’ scenario.
“Isn`t that what Osho was getting over in Pune 2, where the series of talks he gave in that whole time were only on 2 subjects: Zen and Nietzsche?” (Frank)
No, Frank you would miss a lot, seeing it that way.
Madhu
This was worth a read, Frank.. Good link.
“Nietzsche’s book was not published until many years after his death. His sister prevented it. She was a great businesswoman. She was selling other books which were already published, and waiting for the right moment when WILL TO POWER could best be sold. She was not concerned about Nietzsche, his philosophy, or his contribution to humanity.”
If you are interested:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Will_to_Power_(manuscript)
Osho proclaims in the above piece:
“Even a so-called great Indian saint was not far behind Adler and Shaw. His name is Shri Aurobindo. He is worshipped by millions all over the world as the greatest sage of the age. He stole his idea of superman from the manuscript of WILL TO POWER. Shri Aurobindo was only a mediocre scholar, nothing much to brag about.”
Some others of Osho`s descriptions of Aurobindo:
“He is one of the greatest scholars of this age, a genius; vast is his knowledge.”
“Sri Aurobindo was a great intellectual, a very convincing, rational, philosophical genius.”
“The truth is, after Shankara there has been no greater system-builder in India than Arvind.” (Aurobindo).
“And for those still banging on about Osho`s vision going down the pan,it`s actually amazing to consider that ,despite and amongst all the madness,how much of it has/is coming to pass/happen.
Long may it continue.”
My feeling is that “Osho`s vision” didn`t really ‘belong’ to Osho, but was rather part of the wider trend of twentieth century philosophy given by many masters.
A sign of the times. Aurobindo, Paramahansa Yogananda, Haidakan Babbaji,
Mother Meera, all advocated a more life affirmative philosophy, or more of a general balance between spirituality and worldly life.
Even the advaitins stemming from the householder tantric lineage of Nisargadatta Maharaj have indicated a living a normal life whilst pursuing enlightenment.
And then there`s Barry Long….
Whilst many of spiritual seekers in the twentieth century relished the chance to leave behind the anti materialistic approach to spirituality that some of the bald-headed masters had introduced (including Buddha and Mahavira), and to have their cake and eat it, indulging in everything and getting enlightened at the same time, some westerners were still attracted to more of the ancient and simple style of the spiritual lifestyle, such as living in huts with people like this Baba Krishna das Aghori.
https://youtu.be/epYZixLZC_4
https://youtu.be/XJIfdxpj0mc
Osho declares, “Adler has stolen his whole psychology from Friedrich Nietzsche.”
That is like the pot calling the kettle black. The word is plagiarism, defined just so: an act or instance of using or closely imitating the language and thoughts of another author without authorization and the representation of that author’s work as one’s own, as by not crediting the original author.
Osho was perhaps one of spirituality’s greatest plagiarists. Metaphorically speaking he was like a sponge; able to absorb other’s ideas, thoughts, concepts and visions, mash them up and regurgitate them in an apparently new form and present them in such a way as to leave the listener accepting it all as original.
I would go so far as to say that Osho took this practice to such a refined level it could be viewed as high art. I do not have a problem with this.
If a problem were to arise it would be Osho’s self-righteousness in such a realm: calling someone a pygmy for doing something he did himself in spades and displaying apparent concern by claiming, ‘millions of fools are deceived.’ As if to say he could not stoop to such a practice, but he did, on countless occasions Osho presented other author’s ideas as his own, with no acknowledgement of the authors whatsoever.
I would call it creative licence. Most artists do this. I do it and will continue to do so, because unless you are a genius that is what you do and even then there may be shades of other’s work in your own. When composing music I find a bassline I like on a track, take it to my partner and say, let’s make a bassline along this line and off we go.
In the literary world Osho’s greatest source of ideas came from Ouspensky, Gurdjieff and their brilliant Scottish student, Maurice Nicholl. Osho took what he saw as the best in these men’s work, put it in the blender, poured it out and presented it as if it were all his own creation. I for one am very grateful for this, because it exposed me to these ideas early on in life, and due to my love of Osho made me drink it in like nectar.
If you are familiar with Osho’s life you perhaps know all this. If not, you might be one of those millions of fools who are deceived. No problem because one is also a fool if you think everyone else is a fool for you.
“Originality is not possible, only fictitious originality is possible. Mind remains dead, it is memory. Then, am I saying that there is no possibility to be original? No, I am not saying that. Thought cannot be original, no thought can be, originality in thinking is not possible. Originality in being IS possible.”
Tao,
The Three Treasures,
Vol 4.Chapter 6
https://justpaste.it/vrk6
“Osho was perhaps one of spirituality’s greatest plagiarists.”
It will be joy if dentist Devageet kind of elite disciple takes this thought of Lokesh heads on, or at least those people who gave Osho the idea His books are worth Nobel Prize for literature.
“If you are familiar with Osho’s life you perhaps know all this. If not, you might be one of those millions of fools who are deceived. No problem because one is also a fool if you think everyone else is a fool for you.” (Lokesh)
I can very well relate to your response, Lokesh (after reading the topic compilation given), especially to your last lines.
You can dissect a flower and make use of it by sheer dissection just for your own ´more than less – hidden´ profit. Then, the flower (meant as metaphor here) is dead.
Has been a very exhausting day and evening outside in the market place, yesterday before I came ´home. Was quite busy with watching testimonials of family misuse issues and came home very late.
Madhu
“You can dissect a flower and make use of it by sheer dissection just for your own ´more than less – hidden´ profit. Then, the flower (meant as metaphor here) is dead.”
Madhu, this sentence of yours is beautifully written but I must say, blame is not of Lokesh.
Lokesh is picking up dry leaves and dissecting them. Onus of responsibility of untimely death of Osho´s English Garden lies on the shoulders of the hand-picked gardeners and those thousands of “My People” who were raising hands and shouting, ” “Osho! Oshoo! Oshooo!”
“Lokesh is picking up dry leaves and dissecting them. Onus of responsibility of untimely death of Osho´s English Garden lies on the shoulders of the hand-picked gardeners and those thousands of “My People” who were raising hands and shouting, ” “Osho! Oshoo! Oshooo!”( Shantam)
As it is you, Shantam, better not to blame hand-picked ´gardeners´ and their crooked ways to make more than a good fortune by biopatents and fertilisation, money and power and connected ideologies: even your own very crooked ways to contribute here are really surpassed a lot.
As far as your comparison is concerned with sannyasins of former days, you are also stuck on your imagination. It doesn´t fit at all.
Arpana stated, you are allowed here in the UK chat out of Paramartha´s , Dharmen´s or other unknown adminstrators’ idealistic views about chat rules – no rules.
I am not feeling Parmartha as an idealistic dreamer as such.
However need to say, I am very busy with that secret about weird stuff happening virtual-verbally, not only from your side ever and ever again, Shantam – but in the re-actions following as well.
Madhu
MOD: COULD YOU CLARIFY WHAT YOU MEAN IN THE 2ND PARAGRAPH, PLEASE, MADHU? ESPECIALLY: even your own very crooked ways to contribute here are really surpassed a lot.
What I wanted to express is that it remained to me a secret from the very beginning that somebody (like Shantam) in his private war against Pune adminstration is able to poison one thread topic after the other with his kind of stuff (no matter what we share here or what´s the topic).
Sometimes I am more annoyed than other times.
As I know that ´Shantamism´, as Tan rightly stated it the other day, has become a quite common trait of communication – and when business is concerned (like databusiness, human resources – biological, emotional, psychological, mentally and spiritually – also traded icons) and crookedness is the way to do it. Obviously.
Shantam – for me – is trolling his way through this website as long as I perceive it.
And I am sometimes much more in everyday pain about his many brothers and sisters on the road, so to say.
I don´t know if you, moderators, can accept that as an answer, but I am off pretty soon from my home-work space here and outside I am not ‘navelled’ electronic – wise.
Madhu
MOD:
THANKS, MADHU, WE DO APPRECIATE YOUR POINT AND OFTEN DO EDIT AND/OR DISALLOW SUCH POSTS WHEN THEY’RE IRRELEVANT TO THE TOPIC.
PERHAPS WE SHOULD DO THIS MORE OFTEN.
What I owe to the chat topic is to search in my bookshelves for the only book I have from Frederik Nietsche, ‘Beyond Good And Evil’.
And what I owe to the topic and most of the responses is again the realization that even now, after apparently lifetimes have passed, this author, who had, after all, quite what we would call an unhappy life – being ahead of his time and circumstances – is even today misread and misinterpreted.
The fascists of ´our´ time now though wear other costumes – also ´spiritually´ – to create their shortcut version of ´beyond-good-and-evil´: the huge ´Awareness Deficiancy Syndrome´, in combination with the loss of ethical standards going into instant-action, crossing borders, whatsoever – invading and perpetrating, whomsoever-whatsoever-whensoever-wheresoever has become a collective thrill, become a game factory of more or less irresponsible kids in grown-up bodies, hasn’t it?
I am sad about the fate of this Frederik Nietsche. Even nowadays he deserves all our empathy for being misused by megalomaniac crackpots. (Or for being misused by greedy family members).
And btw, UK sannyasfolks, megalomaniac crackpots have been and are happening globally, so to say.
Madhu
P.S:
The compilation of ´lecture parts´ here posted, I don´t remember; what I remember is Osho´s appreciation of the work of that philosopher and also Him regretting that this man was not enlightened.
And what I also remember is that we did a lot of Gurdjieff STOP! exercises around the time of these series….
I quite agree with you, McLoke.
I just don’t forget what always Osho taught us, and that was, with my words:
“I have to talk crap all the time as a trick to get you in silence. You are lucky, you don’t have to read all this literature that I had. I tortured myself to give you everything ready. You don’t have to worry or waste precious time with all of it. I did it for you. Now, you just go in silence and look for everything inside yourself”.
That was his idea. Cheers!
“I have to talk crap all the time as a trick to get you in silence.”
That`s definitely plagiarism.
Osho stole that one from my wife!
Anyway, Frank (at 1.07 pm),
If you have a wife or just fake it temporarily for your flexible virtual chat room ´identity´: ´she´ or ´it´ wasn´t successful, and you wouldn´t deny that, or would you?
Madhu
You are half right there, Frank boy!
There was an enlightened loser who used to call us, sannyasins, “brides of Rajneesh”. I don’t remember who. Anybody here remember? Cheers!
Tan,
That sounds a bit like UG Krishnamurti. He referred to “Rajneesh divorcees”. And then, post 1990, “Rajneesh widows”, I seem to remember.
When it comes to ‘enlightenment’, remember, the enlightened ones themselves are some of the bitchiest scrappers and handbaggers-at-dawn you can find: their playground tactics are all hair-pulling and scratching…
Osho on Krishnamurti: “He is a solo flute to my orchestra. Wasted his life.”
Krishnamurti on Osho: “He has lost his enlightenment and become criminal.”
UG Krishnamurti on Osho: “The greatest pimp of all time.”
Osho on UG: “Pah. He is just ordinary.”
UG on J. Krishnamurti: “The greatest fraud of 20th century.”
Muktananda Sewage Lagoon, Idiotananda
etc. etc.
Frank boy, another golden end of the day! “Enlightened bitches”, it is hilarious!
Between the two, I’d be a disciple of Idiotananda because he is doing the proper job, giving the right answer pointing to the ego….XXX
Yes indeed, Shantam, I do not think any of Osho’s books are liable to be awarded a Nobel Prize for literature. Nonetheless, Osho authored more than a few great books. He should definitely be awarded a prize for output. He is definitely top of the pops on that level. An incredible achievement.
Without Osho books we would not have been on the rollercoaster ride.
In my humble opinion, Osho has used his books as advertisement fliers for the promotion of his one-of-his-kind Europa Park, a kind of spiritual Disneyland.
This creation, though downgraded after the departure of the founder, had the master´s seal of stamp. My deepest regard for the greatest spiritual entrepreneur of all times.
Shantam says, “My deepest regard for the greatest spiritual entrepreneur of all times.”
But I am not sure if he means Maharishi TM or Sri Sri Ravi Shanker or Sigh Baba.
MOD: “Sigh” Baba OK, LOKESH?
At present religious scene of India, M/s Ravi Shankar, Jaggi Vasudev, Ramdev and three or four more have created many times more and bigger success stories than Osho.
These people have affected lots more people and therefore high turnover. So much so, Osho as Acharya Rajneesh was travelling in the trains in the country only whereas one can see the banner ads on the net of Jaggi Vasudev (Professional name Sadguru) globetrotting.
All these middle or even lower middle-class born spiritualists have done tremendously wonderful.
Still Osho is class of his own. He has created rollercoaster whereas others are entertaining through cinema complexes. In my understanding, to create rollercoaster energy, element of romance, love and sex is very important. If Osho is a urologist all others not more than dentists!
Few professions are holes apart!
If Osho had wanted to create a large scale, worldwide religious scene after 1980 onwards, and be embraced or remembered as one of the world’s greatest gurus, it would have been very easy.
He already had thousands of orange-robed followers, with many more waiting to sign up for sannyas.
All he had to do was keep wearing that simple white robe and keep talking in his silky and hypnotically beautiful style.
But he did a lot of strange things after 1980, like collecting hundreds of Rolls Royces, wearing ridiculous jazzed-up outfits with shoulder pads and diamonds in his hats, and gold Rolex watches.
After he broke his silence, he started laying into most of the masters that he had praised in his previous lectures, especially Jesus Christ, who is of course the main religious icon of the country that he was living in at the time.
So it looks very like Osho didn`t give a shit about public opinion whatsoever.
SS, you are right! Osho never, ever gave a shit about public opinion.
Why ten dollars? Put a hundred, Swami! The ten dollar ones is not enough for his taste of the world: the best of anything! Cheers
Here, why not make it a thousand:
Now, you are talking, Swami! XX
Tan declares, “Osho never, ever gave a shit about public opinion.”
That is not true.
In the sense that Tan means it, it is true.
I don’t give a shit about the opinions of others, and I guess you don’t, but we are not going to walk into a bar in Glasgow frequented by violent, extreme right-wing nutters and start preaching the joys of socialism. (Live to fight another day etc.).
In fact, to say I don’t give a shit about the opinions of others is nonsense. I’m not that hard-nosed, by a long way. I certainly don’t fear disapproval or want approval unconsciously in the way I once did, but I have a very strong sense of self-preservation, and much less energy than I once had.
I would love to hear why. Cheers!
There are many obvious examples that show Osho was concerned about his public image and public opinion. One good example was how Osho examined what photographs of himself were to be printed in his books. If he did not like them they did not pass the test.
Now then, that does not fit into his ‘I am not the body’ claim and his non-identification with the body. It had to do with his concern with how he appeared in the public eye.
You cannot imagine someone like Ramana Maharshi being concerned about something like that now, can you, because for him it was all God. Check out that photo of Osho standing beside one of his black, stretch Rollers with his hand on the bonnet. He was a poser. I enjoyed that about him, but to say he did not give a shit about other’s opinions is untrue.
The mistake many make about apparently enlightened people is that they still have a personality. Difference between them and us is that they are not identified with it.
He did not care about other people’s opinions as regards how they saw him personally in the way you do.
To care about how he was perceived in terms of the effectiveness of the project is not the same thing.
Ramana Maharshi was just selling spiritual. Osho is working with spiritual material. Zorba plus Buddha.
Ramana did care enough about his image to shave his head regularly – not sure why he did this. Was it traditional thing, the mark of a renunciate?
Why did Nisargaddatta wear tilak on his forehead everyday and perform pujas in front of pictures of his gurus?
Did Osho dye his hair black prior to 1974 or is this an untruth?
Did Ganjaji have a facelift after ‘enlightenment’, or is this also untrue?
Fundamentally, I just can’t go for all this ‘Osho was perfect’ nonsense. He was no saint. I believe that anything we see in Osho, positive or negative, is a reflection of ourselves, and the same goes for anyone else we care to project on.
Osho was a man, a human, and being that he had his faults and his merits. To me, this is obvious and I enjoyed Osho’s human qualities.
I read recently that people who like to dress up a lot are vain. I agree. Where does that leave Osho, with his padded shoulder outfits, ridiculously expensive jewellery and funny hats? To believe he was beyond caring about other people’s opinions is naive and even if he was, so what? Do you think I give a shit about your opinions, whoever you think you are? I do not.
I do not see that as any great achievement on my part, it is just that after having lived 65 years on this planet I understand everyone has an opinion and that opinion has been formed by society, upbringing, reading books etc. None of which has anything to do with little old me, who also happens to have opinions.
What I am saying is that, to a lesser or greater extent, Osho somehow was very aware of his public image, how he presented himself and to believe that it all had to do with his ‘work’ is to be naive.
Personally, I do not care much about any of it, it is all water gone under the bridge a long time ago. It is fun to comment here on SN and interesting at times to read others’ comments. Just don’t ask me to take anything written here seriously, especially anything that expresses my opinions, because they change from moment to moment, and only that which observes it all does not. Something Osho set me on the path to understanding. Funny hats off to him for that.
Re Lokesh says: 3 July, 2016 at 8:36 am
My impression of you is that your big complaint about Osho is that he doesn’t fit your idea of perfect, but you do.
Of these two men, which one would you say cared most about how he appeared in the public eye?
Or this one?
You’re an old-fashioned, fundamentalist spiritual puritan. They were both consistent with their view of life.
What strikes me about these two photos is how similar they are:
Ramana standing by that ultimate icon of Hindu culture – the cow.
Osho standing by that ultimate icon of western industrial culture – the Rolls Royce.
These snapshots certainly position them succinctly in their respective worlds.
Records show that Ramana Maharshi deliberately upheld the distinctions in his ashram as to privileges for Brahmin vs. other castes. This may not be `looking after image` in the photoshoot or facebook sense, but it was still positioning himself for others` opinions.
Some will say that that was also “to do with his work” ie he didn’t buy into it but felt it was useful in some way for the spiritual health of his visitors/disciples.
And some will just see it as appealing to his Hindu conditioned sense of rightness.
This thing of Ramana always being held up as the greatest, better than all the modern guys, always reminds me of an old family member of mine, now deceased, who used to sit in the pub and bang on about Stanley Matthews (he also of the baggy pants) and how none of the modern players could hold a candle to him.
Of course, with only a few grainy images to judge from, versus the multi-angle camera world of today, no one will ever know!
“To believe he was beyond caring about other people’s opinions is naive and even if he was, so what?”
I visited Ramana Maharshi’s ashram once and went in his bedroom, which is still there, with his little bed.
Osho wasn’t beyond caring about others’ opinions, but liked to play around with them, and shock people too.
He was well aware that if he had kept the simple white-robed style of Poona 1, that he would be perfectly acceptable to many as a spiritual teacher, and he was also well aware of the impact of wearing expensive, golden watches and diamond-studded hats. It would have put people off immediately, not to mention the Rolls Royce collection.
There are still many spiritual folk now, who are unsure about Osho’s credibility, just because he dressed up like that. Whereas, if he had kept the simple white robe and no glitzy watches they would probably believe he was genuine.
The other obvious thing is that by posing with the Rolls, Osho was promoting his idea of Zorba the Buddha.
“There are people who want everything clean, clear-cut, logical, so that their mind can figure out what it is. This is an illogical place, irrational, absurd.
You come with your certain ideas and when those ideas are not fulfilled, you feel baffled, you feel angry, offended. This whole place is being created in such a way that it offends many people, because that is my way to screen those people out.
Somebody comes in the gate and, seeing a marble gate, he escapes. So good, so kind of him! Because he had come to see an Indian kind of ashram, not a marble gate, his ideas are shattered. He wanted to see people living in poverty, in a kind of spiritual dirtiness. He wanted to see people almost starved, fasting. The marble gate is put there to put these people off. I don’t want them inside.
Small things offend people and they don’t see how small things become barriers.
Arup’s mother, Gita, has written a question that she wants her family to become more interested in me, but the only thing that seems to create trouble is my pictures with fantastic hats! That is creating the trouble – so good!
Now bring more hats for me, because these are the people I would not like to be here. I would not like for them to be here because such stupid minds have to be kept out. These minds cannot grow.
In the new commune I am going to make it such that only those who are really daredevils will be able to enter into it. A thousand and one things will prevent them, because those are the people who, even if they come in, they will go out. So why waste time on them? It is better to keep them out, bracket them out.”
The Wisdom of the Sands, Vol 2
The other obvious thing is that by posing with the Rolls, Osho was promoting his idea of Zorba the Buddha.
“He was well aware that if he had kept the simple white-robed style of Poona 1, that he would be perfectly acceptable to many as a spiritual teacher, and he was also well aware of the impact of wearing expensive, golden watches and diamond-studded hats. It would have put people off immediately, not to mention the Rolls Royce collection…
The other obvious thing is that by posing with the Rolls, Osho was promoting his idea of Zorba the Buddha.”
Yes, SS, and also I suspect he rather enjoyed such luxurious ostentation, just as eastern potentates have traditionally revelled in all such ‘glam’n’ glitz’!
Personally, I preferred him in Pune 1 style – but then, to coin a phrase, who am I to pass comment on such a man’s sartorial preferences?!
As I see it, Ramana and Osho are two very different types of chaps. I just posted the photos for the fun of it. I enjoyed the comments, although Arps is getting very predictable in his dotage. I mean to say, “an old-fashioned, fundamentalist spiritual puritan.” Who is he trying to kid with that moth-balled shite?
Re Lokesh says:
3 July, 2016 at 1:09 pm .
Sounding a little defensive there. You always patronise when you’re on the defensive.
To complete the photo set.
What about this one…
Osho falls on hard times…?
See how he is holding the mirror facing back towards the viewer.
It`s a device, but only the chosen few can see it!
There is a growing school of no-thought doesn’t think of you as a device, yah know, Frank.
Well, at least it got you lot going, including Arps down at the auld folk’s home. I saw that mirror reflection immediately, Frank. Hardly surprising, me being one of the chosen few. The chosen few, ha…that’s a good one.
@ Lokesh says:
3 July, 2016 at 4:46 pm:
That’s another sure sign you’re on the defensive. When you won’t let something go.
(From Parmartha)
Numbers are immaterial in discipleship, Shantam. A few disciples of quality are worth more than a thousand who, as in India, just follow some sort of family custom, to have a guru…
Osho’s disciples that I met in in Poona in 1974 and turned me on – many had “quality”.
To be honest, I was impressed by those disciples then, many seemed creative in the widest sense, genuinely friendly, many living on the edge of society already, and many in touch with something. It took a month or two before I got in tune with the old man through them.
Later disciples of Osho were mainly of a lower stock to be honest, and just jumping on the bandwagon, and had come from conventional backgrounds, which meant they had much less grit.
PM,
Every football fan thinks he is the hard-core and bemoans the bandwagon glory hunters and prawn-sandwich fans that come after him!
Every immigrant from the first wave from his country looks down on later waves and thinks they should be sent home!
Btw, do you remember this gritty swami?
“Every immigrant from the first wave from his country looks down on later waves and thinks they should be sent home!”
That`s true. Plenty of Pakistanis and Indians voting to leave ,and plenty of Ukip voters thinking that they will reclaim the `white` UK of the fifties that they grew up in.
But they don`t realise that a lot of the immigration is actually from outside the EU, not Eastern Europeans, and they will never get rid of the immigrants who are already based here.
Plus, they forget that we are all in fact immigrants to this island, having invaded from France(Gaul), Saxon lands and Romans (to name but a few). So what is an Anglo-Saxon anyhow?
Here is a video of some of those early disciples, some of them with that alchemy of love and true grit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZSjajipaII&feature=youtu.be
Here is a video from Pune 2.
Watch it, Parmartha, and tell whether these people are of lowest order.
Watch both videos without attachment and let me read what is your unbiased judgement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oagt883BtGA
No, Shantam,there is no lower order. I have watched the video before.
The people of Poona 2 to me seem to be a little more mediocre in the ‘wild’ category, but many clearly into meditation.
This is a long way from the topic, by the way.
Thanks, Big P.
You are right: intense love, alchemy, grit. Great video. Cheers!
Yes, a great vid of former times, Parmartha, I agree with Tan here.
And how beautiful was that, that one didn´t know that the vid was taken, to expose to later generations such utter Intimacy in Ecstasy for the world at large (everlasting).
I say that because even quite shortly after that time, during lecture time for example, when the technical vid recording equipment became more sophisticated and well known to be used for the audience too, you sometimes (much later, when watching the whole stuff) can also see what it does with humans when they know they’re being watched by the eye of a camera.
YES, these former few documentaries are really precious.
Sometimes a very sweet pain for me to watch it and remembering times of great intimacy and the childlike trust to expose the most beautiful as well as the most so-called ´ugly´ (in groups, for example).
A trust, that one fully lived moment is a fully lived moment – nothing more and indeed, nothing less! At all.
Yes, a beautiful vid. And I simply loved and love some of the the old songs too. Very much. Telling much of that trust.
“The universe is singing a song”….
Madhu
Sigh Baba, yes. could have been Sad Baba, because he was a bit of a tragic case. Inspired millions and he was a fraud who did a lot of good works.
People say that he was a fraud, but there are also many reports of the guy knocking people out of their heads in a similar way to Osho in darshan….
Check this out:
http://www.expat-journal.com/archives/my-guru-who-isnt-my-guru-neem-karoli-baba/go-see-sai-baba-in-bangalore/
There was also one of his old-time devotees, one who later left after all the controversies and claimed that Sai had “clapped his hands and produced some kind of oil which he rubbed into his balls.”
Yet this was someone who also claimed that Sai Baba had saved his life when he had never heard of him before, by helping him from trying to commit suicide by drowning himself in the sea in Sri Lanka.
Apparently, Sai Baba had materialised out of a little hut on the beach, helped the guy out of the sea and told him to “come to my ashram.”
This guy?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2mmlExmLmA
He wouldn`t have lasted 1 minute on Penn and Teller.
Great video, Frank boy!
I would like to know why people are attracted to this kind of crap, like if you are enlightened, you have to have some ‘powers’, things we ordinary humans can not do, like to make objects appear in the case of Satya, or to foresee the future in case of Osho. If you don’t know, ask Yogi. Cheers!
Tan girl,
I recall Osho talking about this; said people are impressed by anything that others can do that we can’t. Something like that. That had a big impact on me. I think there are a lot of ideas about superior and inferior in such perceptions. ☯
Thanks, Arps!
Yes, maybe you are right, a lot to do with inferiority, etc…
Food for thought, my friend. XX
I think Sai Baba was basically a guru for Indians (and others), vast numbers of those who tended to be extremely impressed by such phenomena, as if it definitively proved the man’s ‘enlightened credentials’.
I visited his ashram in Puttapathi in ’96, in a group of about 20 people, basically as a sort of exotic holiday, curious to see what was going on out there, after coming across a ‘Sai Baba healer’ at an ‘alternative festival’ in north London.
Among thousands of visitors, we were actually called in to see him privately after a few days, and he briefly put a hand on the top of my head as I walked into his chambers. Can’t say I felt much although I was quite ‘chuffed’ at the time.
He was very small, with a high-pitched little voice and dispensed bits of wisdom to various people, including “healing is just rubbish” (at least to the person concerned) to the man who’d persuaded me to come! I was left with the strong impression that he wasn’t really capable of teaching westerners, that if anything he was for Indians and their like.
A fake guru? I’m not at all sure. But he had ‘something’, exactly what I don’t know.
Whatever his shortcomings though, there’s no doubt he inspired great works, notably a wonderful ultra-modern hospital a few miles away.
Flawed, yes – but aren’t they all?!
SD,
Sai Baba didn`t rub your balls with oil or “knock you out of your head”?
You obviously aren`t very advanced along the spiritual path, then!
I take it from these remarks, Frank, YOU have had your balls oiled by Sai Baba.
Once again, Frank, you have crossed that thin line into more info than was required.
Dead right there, frank, I’m definitely not!
You went all the way to see Sai Baba and you didn`t get your balls oiled?
But seriously, I agree with you that Sai Baba attracted loads of people who were just there because of his miracles. Whether you believe that they are real or not is debatable.
You say that you are not sure that Sai Baba wasn`t perhaps not such a good guru for westerners.
The example I posted above is not really such a good example. After all, it was Neem Karoli Baba who told the guy to visit Sai Baba, he personally wasn`t interested. Yet I have read a few reports that westerners have really benefited through Sai Baba.
There was a devotee that got a “little” Sai Baba (similar to Paul McCartney’s “adventure on the floor” – was it a hard days night?) accompanying her for a while and answering any question that she asked. Extremely useful.
Then there was a woman who got a high fever in Puttipathi, and was very ill for several weeks, can`t remember the exact story, but at the worst point, when her temperature was at its highest point and she began to fear death approaching, Sai Baba appeared and shouted “Now!” And she was dissolved into a state of total oneness, which lasted for several days, after which her health recovered and she had felt that it was a life-transforming experience.
Thanks, SD, the account of your trip to see Sai Baba.
Maybe he was a conjuror, but paradoxically enough also had some other qualities. I liked his reply to your friend about healing.
The hospital he created is a great example to the rest of India, so one could say ‘good works’ are in there also.
Yes, his good work with hospitals was impressive.
So was Jimmy Savile`s !
Thanks for the video, frank.
After reading the responses, what I understand is it is mostly a nihilists vs. one anti-nihilist, the anti-nihilist living in the land of the rediscoverer of nihilism is more than keen to bring back meaningfulness to his otherwise meaningless life perhaps!
Kavita, to which responses is this alluding?
Art of Meaningful Life:
Sleep for 10-12 hours
Watch tv for 5-7 Hours and rest of the time do mundane things of life but with such awareness, life becomes celebration and meaning of odyssey.
Am I right, Kavita?
There maybe little truth in that for some of us, Shantam, but generally most have quite have a lot to worry about .
Kavita, I am one of those who have quite a lot to worry about. You know me. Till now did not get place in that exclusive club where the inspiring persons say, “Give all your worries to me, including your purse.”
Shantam, maybe knowing you, even if by chance someone does come along to take all your worries from you, you seem too attached, at least to your worries more than your purse!
Thanks for giving the hint. If you allow, I can write the story of Shashwat and Shantam, two young advocates from Haryana, astrologically opposite, meet in Pune and the turning points in their lives.
Few life stories are more real, yet dramatic, than fiction.
Shantam,
It could be a movie too.
‘The Hindu Hangover’.
High school friends Shashtwat and his thick mate Diqbal leave Haryana and head to the big city for a weekend of good times, spiritual advancement and girls.
It all goes badly wrong when they are taken in by a dodgy guru who promises them enlightenment and an eternal life of fun, high living and white girls.
One morning, after being drugged with the divine, Diqbal wakes up to find that his mate Shashtwat has disappeared, the guru has disappeared, he has no money left, no girlfriend, his family has disowned him, his mind has gone and he`s got nothing left but a suitcase full of Japanese Zen Porn, a 400 year-old pair of underpants and a throbbing Hindu Hangover…
He heads for the nearest dole-office…but his problems have only just begun….
Cool….
Shantam, I guess you are free as I am, but I doubt if we really can know what someone’s real story is/has been, I guess. In any case, if one needs to write stories it’s best to be able to write one’s own story.
Short Story: Spiritual Bank
One spiritualist has the philosophy, religious people should participate in real life as many become some kind of escape specialists.
So the spiritualist created a bank. The bank where consumers will be treated as kings in real terms. Investment bankers won´t have hefty pay packages, small savings will get 1% more interest than any other bank in the country.
Brochures were published on recycling papers. First branch was opened with five employees in the heart of London. World media was asked to cover the opening:
“First bank where manager gets the same wage as any other employee, where director won´t get any remuneration. In the Spiritual Bank women will have leadership position. Soon there will be branches in all the main cities of the world.”
Surely newspapers covered the event. The slogan of the Spiritual Bank was very catchy: “Bankers become suckers if they don´t look inside.”
Within a year, bank has few thousand satisfied customers. Director was hailed as hero. He instructed his staff, “Now we must take over a big bank. Start discussion with some big American or German bank as customer base is increasing there every day.”
One day world got a surprise news. Spiritual Bank has gone to the verge of collapse. Banking regulator is keeping the eye. The CEO has resigned. Founder is accusing her of fraud. World´s first Spiritual Bank collapsed.
Years after the collapse, few customers still remember with fondness the service of Spiritual Bank. It was the first bank where filtered water box was installed. Now it is everywhere.
Many customers with inner insights have the theory, “Founder was not interested in expanding the bank. His main focus was to teach, every bank will collapse one day.”
Lehmann Brothers was collapsed. Prophecy has come true.
Moral of the story (only for survivors):
Do not keep all eggs in one basket!
Arpana, the 1st one in this thread was: 29 June, 2016 at 11:14 pm…
And they keep continuing!
I assumed this was where you were going but the nihilism, anti-nihilistic remarks have confused me. ✌
Arps, somehow, my way of relating closest to ‘nihilism’ is ‘neti neti’.
Anyway, found this while searching for the word ‘nihilism’ and its use:
http://www.iep.utm.edu/nihilism/
Gotcha.
Dear Parmartha,
I came across sannyasnews while browsing some information on Vivek. Was at once taken aback to see SN! What touched me most was its anecdotal quality. For a person like me who could not get the joy of being in His physical presence such anecdotes are blissfully enchanting.
However, as I read the ‘responses’, they were, except for a few, not responses at all; they were reactions – and often very toxic, nasty, vicious ones. One has to wade through thick filth before s/he meets a Madhu, Samarpan-rose. The perpetual cat-and-dog fights of Lokesh and Prem Shantam are not only hopelessly childish, but also repulsive.
I was so dejected, I decided never to visit SN again. But there was something that pulled me again and again towards it. It was the same anecdotal fragrance. But I could never refer SN to anyone, because of these responses.
How could you allow such fights in SN? In the name of democracy, perhaps. Be a bit of a dictator, Parmartha. Democracy in the hands of stupids becomes nonsense, and dictatorship in the hands of a wise person becomes a perfect means of disciplining. I run an NGO (www.kavyafoundation.in) and a digital ashram (www.e-astitva.in). And I run these as a dictator. Believe me, dictatorship works!
All this apart, I must thank you for bringing so many wonderful tales from the world of Sannyas to us!
Love and regards,
Kapil
Kapil,
This is a long way off the thread topic. I appreciate your comments but don’t agree.
Surely you can take the anecdotes you love from the early days from those of us who were actually there and just enjoy those.
I created SN with a few others, in particular Paritosh, way back. We had been through a pretty devastating dictatorship, that of Sheela and her crew, which nearly ended in a complete tragedy and loss of life.
I much prefer that people can speak up confidently and say things, even if I don’t agree with them. The Greek city state was not all peace and bliss, but it lived for a while with vitality, creativity and intellect because people could do this.
I think to see people disagreeing does trigger something in those who want ‘certainty’, hence the hatred of such discussion in most of Islam, but it inoculates humanity from extremism, and that is vital for humanity to have any future at all.
Dear Parmartha
I begin my reply by quoting myself: “Democracy in the hands of stupids becomes nonsense, and dictatorship in the hands of a wise person becomes a perfect means of disciplining.” Several democratic liberal western values turned into apparatuses of exploitation as soon as they fell into the hands of the ego-blind. Sheela herself was a case in point. She was given free rein to run Rajneeshpuram, and because she was not a meditator (Osho himself said so), power easily corrupted her mind.
True, disagreement is healthy. But when it comes from unconscious people, it is not only useless, it is destructive also. A politician was asked why he had ten children. He answered, “Well, the idea of family planning was put forth by the opposition party. I must disagree with them on all matters.”
As for Athens, we must tell political mud-slinging from critical creativity. Plato opposed Socrates, and Aristotle did Plato; Diogenes and Plato were at loggerheads; Antisthenes and Plato were ideological rivals. Yet each had his own individual creative vision. This creativity stood in sharp contrast with cunning sophism.
My whole emphasis is on awareness. Awareness can heal all reactionary sickness. Sannyasnews should help people see their own grudges and malice against others instead of becoming a means of getting even with others. (I must repeat that the above observation is made with reference to some specific ‘responders’. I am sure, Parmartha, you know them well).
P.S:
Diogenes used to masturbate publically. Yet it sounds far less cynical than Frank’s comment to Satyadeva. Frank says, 1 July, 2016 at 1:53 pm:
“SD,
Sai Baba didn`t rub your balls with oil or “knock you out of your head”?
You obviously aren`t very advanced along the spiritual path, then!”
Hello Kapil,
I think you need a bit (or perhaps a lot) more experience of English humour before you rush to condemn this sort of thing!
Kapil,
Let me explain to you:
The reason you are pulled to SN, the anecdotal fragrance, is Osho’s fragrance.
You said: “Democracy in the hands of stupids becomes nonsense”. And what about dictatorship in the hands of stupid people? Becomes what?
Well, Kapil, maybe you are in the wrong website, try Mother Teresa one…if you like to boast about helping poor children and poor people.
And, my dear Kapil, if you know so much about Diogenes’s private life, tell me: what was the size of his dandha? Cheers!
Tan, very good point:
“You said: “Democracy in the hands of stupids becomes nonsense…”. And what about dictatorship in the hands of stupid people? Becomes what?”
“And what about dictatorship in the hands of stupid people? Becomes what?”
It becomes devastating. The onus of preventing this devastation is on sannyasins that can create silent wisdom.
Perfectly correct, Kapil!
Perfectly correct, Kapil!
As you say – dictatorship works!
You are right to say that “democratic liberal western values are turned into apparatuses of exploitation as soon as they fall into the hands of the ego-blind.”
Yes!
This is why a dictatorship with you at the helm is the only answer!
Authoritarian dictatorships like that of Sai Baba would never make the same mistake as these western baboons!
Children must be allowed to be molested by God if it is the will of Brahma! And with the full support of the law and a well-paid police force so all dissenting voices can be suppressed unlike at Sannyas News where cynics are foolishly allowed to speak up from their ego mind!
The non-meditative ego must be crushed!
Do not worry, Kapil, I hereby pledge you my unwavering support to bring about enlightenment – the final solution!
Yahoo!
Hari Om!
Sieg Heil!
And?
Shantam, who’s recently reported an important conversation with you, regards himself as a sort of ‘Sannyas revolutionary’ and would like to be, at least for a while, Chairman of a reinstated 1980/90s style Pune ashram. Being long-term unemployed he’d certainly be available – but does he have enough “silent wisdom” for the job, Kapil? Or even relevant life experience? Has he sent you his CV yet?
Furthermore (if I may ask a very personal question of someone of such high status), do you think you yourself have enough “silent wisdom” (as opposed to, say, mere intellectual expertise) or even practical common sense, to know whether he has enough of this essential yet so often elusive (even among sannyasins) ingredient?
After all, a digital ashram is a rather different kettle of fish from a physical reality ashram, is it not?*
And if your resources of “silent wisdom” are not yet exhausted by the above, do you regard such a project as desirable or even practical anyway?
Waddya reckon, Kapil?
*P.S:
I’ll reply to your other interesting posts tomorrow, all being well.
Heil, Yogi and everyone else, including Ubergruppenfuhrer Shantam, centre of photo.
Silence!
It is absolutely verboten to make ze humour on Kommandant Kapil Klink and Sergeant-of-the-Guard Shantam Shulze of Online Stalag Luft 13!
Kapil, it was me that brought up the “ball-rubbing” and “head-knocking” of Sai.
I had heard about one of his devotees who had been with Sai baba for years, and who claimed that Sai Baba had appeared on the beach in Sri Lanka and pulled him out of the sea when he was trying to drown himself in the water.
After the allegations of someone called Allaya Rahm, that Sai Baba had abused him, there was a big smear campaign by the parents of Allaya Rahm and some of Sai Baba`s long-time devotees left, not because they doubted Sai Baba`s powers but because they also claimed to have been ‘oiled’ in the same way, or just because they didn`t agree that a master should be allowed to do that kind of thing.
I can`t remember what Sai Baba said about the oiling, but some reason was given.
Anyhow, Allaya Rahm dropped the case against Sai Baba, and the pro-Sai people say that Allaya was writing “love-letters” to Sai around the time that the alleged sexual abuse was taking place.
Personally, I keep an open mind about the whole thing.
Thanks for taking another effort, Kapil.
Madhu
Thanks, Madhu
Kapil,
The main point is that dictatorship in the hands of “stupids” is very dangerous. Democracy in the hands of “stupids” remedies itself from within and without damaging others.
I think I am right in saying you never lived under the Sheela dictatorship?
Awareness develops in people, and a good stage to go through is seeing oneself through the mirror of other’s criticisms.
You are welcome here, by the way, Kapil.
Thanks, Parmartha. Osho’s words and anything meaningful about Him are so sweet to my soul! I would keep visiting SN. And would avoid the cacophony of pretentious sannyasins.
Read the post on Osho and Nanak. Another melody of the Beloved!
Perfectly correct, mein Fuhrer!
All those pretentious sannyasins who do not hear the melody of the beloved as dictated by your opinion which comes from the depths of your silence and bypasses the speculative mind of the democratic baboons will be trussed up in piano wire with meditative awareness which heals all reactionary sicknesses!
Yahoo!
Hari Om!
Sieg Heil!
“Awareness develops in people, and a good stage to go through is seeing oneself through the mirror of other’s criticisms.” (Parmartha)
As we happen to respond to a thread topic, mentioning Frederik Nietzsche, I am reminded of one of his aphorisms, quoted very often: “What doesn´t murder me, makes me stronger.”
And how insane is that!
Otherwise – it is good to keep in mind that the ‘mirror of criticism’ mostly hits a blind or very spotted ´spot, or even indicates that the mirror is broken.
Few decades after world war II, when the first public summer festivals opened up again with a lot of fun and entertainments, carousels and what else, one could go into the mirror cabinets, where the mirrors were prepared beforehand to give a thoroughly distorted reflection of the onlooker. Was a full success in creating ripples of laughter, even to be heard outside.
This kind of fun entertainment equipment disappeared from the public summer festival markets – is considered too simple, I guess. What a pity.
Nobody would have thrown a stone on such a mirror just because the reflection didn´t fit with the inner-view. We just knew before that we were facing a false reflection.
Madhu
Just because something doesn’t work for you, Madhu, doesn’t mean it can’t for anybody else. You have a very bad habit of invalidating the experience of others because yours isn’t the same.
Arpana,
Hope you can relate to this as well:
“So be it, but before we go looking for the speck and splinter in our neighbour’s eye, should we not remove the mote and beam from our own?”
Madhu
Well done, Madhu. Describes you perfectly. Who would have imagined you capable of such honest self- reflection?
And again, Arpana, hope you can relate to this as well…
Doesn´t seem so, unfortunately.
Madhu
You could build a bonfire with all those motes in your eye, Madhu.
http://digest.bps.org.uk/2016/06/beneath-their-sneering-veneer-people.html
” I run an NGO (www.kavyafoundation.in) and a digital ashram (www.e-astitva.in).”
A digital ashram?! I laughed out loud when I read this. My God, what on earth can that be?!
Ok, it’s only a name and I get the idea, but somehow the very title sort of sums up the wayward pretensions of those who seek to replicate (and thus confuse) physical reality in cyber-space.
For example, other than sight, how many of the senses are involved when one enters such a ‘place’? Hearing, smell, touch, taste? I don’t think so.
“A digital ashram?! I laughed out loud when I read this. My God, what on earth can that be?!”
Dear Satyadeva, you should have simply clicked on the given link to know what it is! Let me quote the vision of the ashram for you: “The whole existence is an Ocean of Consciousness and we all are Its playful waves. One who discovers this truth knows ultimate bliss. Then he sets out, like Nietzsche’s Zarathustra, to share the honey of bliss with the world. We lovers and meditators too have tasted this honey and wish to share it with others. Due to the lack of space and resources we have built this digital ashram. This is a unique way of reaching out to those who are waiting for the Message of Love from Existence.”
I can see how you missed the point: because of your speculative mind. “For example, other than sight, how many of the senses are involved when one enters such a ‘place’? Hearing, smell, touch, taste? I don’t think so.”
Other than viewing things here, you can listen to the audios. Moreover, if you are sensitive and conscious, you can smell the fragrance of meditation, taste beauty, and feel touched by love here. But you seem to be in a hurry. So you ask a question, then immediately answer yourself, “I don’t think so.”
Further, in your speculative hurry, you mention the NGO also; but forget to inquire whether it is a digital creation or a real flesh and blood thing. Through Kavya Foundation, we have supplied to around 700 children school textbooks & notebooks, school bags, uniforms, shoes, taekwondo mats, coaching facility; have planted trees, have built a plant nursery and going to build another next month; have conducted Yog-Dhyan shivirs; have helped some women and blind children by selling the products made by them…And this desire to share with and care for others has grown out of love and meditation taught by Osho.
If still you feel like laughing out loud, then you should do Mystic Rose meditation. It will not only unburden you of your speculative laughter, but also will bless you with clarity of vision.
Digital Ashram…
It is like Porn websites claiming, “In service of Love.”
Kapil,
First of all, I must say thank you, brother, for being honest and transparent with your name, work and website. It is very rare quality here at, ‘Virtual Commune’.
From your posts I can guess you have read Osho thoroughly and from your credentials it seems you have doctorate in some subject. Maybe social sciences, which lead to your NGO.
May I ask, what kind of meditation techniques you have followed other than reading/listening Osho?
Kapil, Heil Hitler.
I had to tell you, Lokie, you’re the best!
Heil Lokesh!
Cool, Kavita, heil back. XXX
“For example, other than sight, how many of the senses are involved when one enters such a ‘place’? Hearing, smell, touch, taste? I don’t think so.” ( Satyadeva).
I would like to ask you here in the realms of Sannyas News-Caravanserai, in the virtual realms of this chat room, how many of your senses are involved, when you chat here and respond, Satyadev ?
Hearing, smell, taste?
And would like also to contradict Parmartha´s thesis* that any chat room hate speech can function as an inoculation or a vaccination: “I think to see people disagreeing does trigger something in those who want ‘certainty’, hence the hatred of such discussion in most of Islam, but it inoculates humanity from extremism, and that is vital for humanity to have any future at all.”
For me, Kapil made a point to be really considered here, even if I do really understand as an integer option/good intention, what Parmartha describes, referring to a Greek ´public city council.
The realitywe all are facing daily speaks another ´truth, doesn´t it?
And there is a need to ponder about the preludes of cybercrimes, finding their ways to materialise in the open space we are all in.
And to agree on rules or standards.
And a need to agree upon not pirating, not robbing or not distorting private data, for example, which don´t belong here, as well as practising an emotional response-ability to deal with what is called ‘information-exchange’ in a chat room of this kind.
Madhu
This programme about Nietzsche from the BBC throws some light on this thread:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07h0hg9/genius-of-the-modern-world-2-nietzsche
MOD : found this – thank you .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsTwCbHIWu4
Thanks, Kavita,
Could finally see the whole BBC vid (with many – horrible – advertising interruptions though).
It´s a very good compilation!
And even exquisite are the very last minutes of the vid, giving a short and very precise diagnosis of our post-modern world, post-modern men, and lack of visions.
But again: “The longer you stare into an abyss”, Nietzsche also said, “the abyss will stare back at you!”
Very good device, and reminder, isn´t it?
(Some biographical documentary efforts of sincere people becoming better and better; I am glad about it. Would be nice to know that such will be watched by many).
Thanks again for posting it.
Madhu
Yes, good reminder & device, Madhu. Mostly there is a ‘SKIP AD’ option!
Yes, Madhu, with youtube it maybe is best not to just “sit silently and let the grass grow by itself and watch all the advertisements.
If you look at the video at the beginning you should see a “skip ad” button in the bottom right corner – unless this is different in Deutschland. If I was in the area I could visit and show you, over Leibkuken and bonbons.
Only Lokesh can say without any malefic intention:
“Fundamentally, I just can’t go for all this ‘Osho was perfect’ nonsense. He was no saint.”
Even those who do not wish Osho becomes figurehead of new religion are brushing their enlightened mystic from any dust, any human error.
Here too at sannyasnews, many of us will feel guilty to blame Osho for any debacle. It is Ronald Reagan, it is Sheela, it is Narendra Modi.
The trait of blaming others, bringing people to the level of emotional surrender and then ditching them; Tragic end of a British woman closest to the master show how psychopathic alpha male mind was surrounding Osho.
To be true, Indian spiritual master from small town with big dreams to be next Buddha or Mahavira got the first-hand trait of western mind. Master was human being too subject to flattery and smell of dollars.
Sorry if I use was for was. Faithful ones use IS for was and still say, they don´t want to create religion! This is the very base of religion. God is dead but some Buddha, some Mohammed, some Jesus or Osho…
Mama Mia!
Mama Mia!
Kapil, after reading your posts it seems to me you are very keen to promote your websites here on sannyasnews discussion forum & if so, sorry dear, this is the wrong site for that kind of stuff.
Anyway,
All The Best.
Sorry to say, most of the reactions to newcomer Kapil´s posts are mechanical. It is like loafers in the vicinity start urinating one by one on the walls of a house where new tenant has shifted.(Maybe such things don´t happen in UK, Wales, Scotland etc. In India it is very common).
As per my own mechanical style which is queer with the collective bunch of ladies and gentlemen present here, I have taken the trouble to phone Dr. Kapil, 35 years old assistant Professor in English. He is reading Osho for the last 17, 18 years.
It was a good experience to talk around 15-20 minutes to understand the person who has taken the courage to present himself honestly.
I would also like to phone Anand Yogi, Frank, Satyadeva, Shanti, Tan. But I know they they boobs but no balls!
In any case, I have presented all of you as great meditators who have spend considerable time around the master, so made him aware don´t be so childish to think you have done something great whereas others have wasted time.
He prefers the style of Samarpan and Madhu and wish they should write more often.
So now, Shantam, if you don’t get the chairmanship of OIF, atleast you can be a certifier of meditation on SN!
Meditation is not my subject.
My subject is to tell meditators it is a good exercise but not a wonder drug. Many times people get the idea, with meditation size gets bigger!
I guess in any case, wishful thinking is one thing & reality totally another for meditators & non-meditators alike!
But what do you understand by the word ‘meditation’, Shantam?
SD, he doesn’t. Shantam is not a meditator. He is a hearty chap. Therefore he is more devotional type in his very own warped way. Reading about him calling up this Kapil chap made me laugh. It is so nutty. Can you imagine Shantam trying to explain what is going on behind the scenes with us lot? It is absurd. Also how Shantam takes on the role of our spokesman. Fuckin’ bonkers.
The problem with some (a few? many?) devotional types like Shantam (himself an extreme example) is that, being highly emotional they tend to more readily trust and believe in their emotions’ ultimate validity, as in: “I feel it very much, therefore it must be true/I must be right.”
However attractive a quality this might at times be, this sort of unexamined, almost reflex behaviour works to undermine their intelligence to such a degree that in certain instances it appears to almost not exist at all. We see this in Shantam’s entire stance here at SN, confirmed practically on a daily basis, eg his ‘dialogue’ with Kapil, as noted by Lokesh.
If Kapil has any inkling of or respect for the truth he might perhaps point this out to Shantam (and even post likewise here) although up to now there’s little or no evidence that he’ll do anything other than tacitly support him, possibly because, as the old saying goes, ‘blood is thicker than water’.
Or simply because he can’t be bothered (his fear of his ‘authority’ being undermined probably hiding under convenient rationalisations such as “These people are not true meditators, they possess no silent wisdom, replying to each one is beneath my dignity as a true devotee”, and so on).
In which case, in this instance he’ll be another one run by his aberrant emotions rather than by his informed intelligence, his much-vaunted “silent wisdom”.
Disappointing.
Satyadeva, you say:
“However attractive a quality this might at times be, this sort of unexamined, almost reflex behaviour works to undermine their intelligence to such a degree that in certain instances it appears to almost not exist at all.”
My heart says is not true, my head says it is.
Very well put and thanks, food for thought, my friend. XXX
Satyadeva,
Today, shopping in Tesco, I remembered what Osho said and I quote with my words: “If your heart goes one way and your mind another way, you just don’t go anywhere, allow them go wherever they want”
Good reminder. Cheers!
So what did you choose, Tan – ice cream and wine or brown rice and porridge oats (perhaps both?)?
Correct!
You have won an all-expenses paid trip to Nowhere Special!
Congratulations, madame!
Satyadeva and Lokesh,
As I have written time and again, I won´t boast about my meditation and every other assets. It is all in the range of average. My spiritual ego too is average but I can tell you for sure, where you both are lacking, it matters not how many hundred thousand hours you have logged in the meditation watch.
,,
Btw, this was Samarpan`s opinion on Vivek`s death on the thread this self-proclaimed fascist moron Kapil mentioned:
“I heard that Osho laughed. It was not an untimely death. She left just in time to prepare the way for Osho, who was soon to follow. Where could she go, if this is leela, and death is a fiction?”
A more stupid, dumb-American-parrots-eastern-philosophy comment in the hope that others will think him wise altho` it has zilch to do with his own experience, is pretty hard to find. And that is not even factoring in that it was Osho himself who called it “untimely”.
Kapil refers to Samarpan as “Samarpan-rose” and wants more comments from him.
Back to the thread topic:
Hitler used Nietzsche`s philosophy to give him some cred.
Neo-Hindu fascists use Osho philosophy to back them up.
And so it goes….
This is knockout Punch, Herr Frank.
Me as an Indian referee living in Europe declare English humour has knocked Indian devotion out of circulation.
Let me guess…Kapil?
My idea is Kapil is not the chap who can bear too many heavy weights. So he may write once in a while.
In a way, Kapil is like Bhagwan, both lecturers in university colleges; coming from such profession people get used to adoration of the students/disciples.
Also, we all have fear to get roasted, and that too by a foreigner mob. The way all islanders jump over him, including Tan with her plastic Danda, is a fine example of collective mind. Madhu´s sanity is recommendable.
But you, Shantam, have shown no such “fear of getting roasted, and that too by a foreigner mob” for an extremely long time. So why make excuses for Kapil?
For a start, if he had anything about him, let alone any “silent wisdom”, he’d make a point of taking a good look inside to see whether any of the criticism might be valid (as Parmartha quite gently intimated the other day). But it seems that’s not his way, he already ‘knows it all’ – after all, he’s a professor!
He should now realise, if he didn’t already, that socio-economic status means zero here, absolutely zilch. We’ve all seen through such a facade for decades, thankfully.
Madhu´s sanity is “recommendable”.
That’s a good one.
“Madhu´s sanity is “recommendable”.
That’s a good one.”
Has someone also laughed while reading this?