Priya Huffman (I dont like this habit that people have of bifurcating their names, but there you go), wrote a longer article over at Osho News on this, but there is no facility to “comment” there. This extract answers a question that has sometimes been put to me, about what I got from sannyas, particularly the ‘commune’ experience. I say this because some vociferous people question or regret years spent in the commune, and yet, much was learned that is unlikely to be forgotten ( to echo the previous article by Lokesh) in future lives. On much of this I agree with Priya. Parmartha
Priya writes: (of things gained from sannyas life, and in particular her commune experience)
– A remarkable work ethic. In the commune I learnt to focus on the task at hand in a single-pointed way. A focus that doesn’t shut out the other constituents that might be vying for my attention, but enables me to triage, without losing the thrust of the work to which I am most committed.
– From this skill-set, practiced day to day, arose the realization that no job was intrinsically of higher value than any other, that any work you did wholeheartedly was truly an offering of the heart, a worship, as we used to call it. It was born out of the understanding that every aspect of living had to be attended to — chopping vegies, doing the laundry, healing the ill, teaching the kids, cleaning the toilets, being a therapist, all had their place and need.
Often, those who had high status jobs before coming to the commune, and were overly identified with their importance, were given the lowliest jobs. The reverse was also true: those unaccustomed to power or prestige were often given ‘power over’ others to see how they responded and what arose within them — meanness, sharpness, kindness or compassion. The doctors cleaned toilets (there was no shortage since we had the highest per capita doctors — PhD’s, MA’s, MS’s — in any recorded community or small group at that time), and the secretaries were elevated to leadership positions, there to flower or flounder.
This lesson has been invaluable, especially in the years immediately after leaving. I had no shame taking jobs that were available and applied myself to being a house cleaner, doing telephone sales (no fun), and doing massage, before finding my way back to being a psychotherapist. To this day, I have such a sad sweet spot for people who are overly identified with their ‘work in the world’ as a means toward meaning and value and such respect for people who do their jobs well, no matter what they are.
– Any place where we become attached to a set of ideas or concepts that is not authenticated by our direct knowing is a lie. Osho was a brilliant orator and would speak on a different discipline each month. One month we would become enamored with Zen as he spoke of Basho and flock to emulate the outer trappings of that track. We would become contained, deliberate, and mindful in all aspects of life. One month later, we would be privy to tantric teachings and cavort around, all containment shed along with clothes, for the deep dive into the utter acceptance of all life’s energies, especially all things sexual. And so it went, through many teachings, traditions, till there was nothing left to hold onto but the truth of our own experience — because he was not going to give us answers, only more options, more confusion for us to start our own explorations. This has been of such service to me, has allowed me to feel into what is true rather than jump onto any passing bandwagon.
– The greatest gift of those early years in India was the complete and open exploration of all aspects of our emotional and sexual attitudes and behaviors. We were like kids in the proverbial candy store. Encouraged to sample, taste and eat the fruit of sensual delight, dance, sing, have sex, touch, laugh, love, be joyously free, unburdened by the past restrictions within ourselves with others. I learned to laugh and cry, feel hurt, yearn, be disappointed. I was moved like Rumi, to kiss the ground, simply because I was alive, rather than merely going through the motions of living.
– Since being out in the larger world, I have come to know many different forms of meditation and have realized that sound practice depends on helping a person engage fully, without the stricture of identification which so often closes the mind and our capacity to respond authentically. I am… a teacher… farmer… student, lover, a whatever.
Our community didn’t allow us to get fixed in roles or overly impressed with identities. By virtue of the constant waves of change that we rode in order to stay afloat, we found our way of being present without clinging to being ‘a somebody’. Some of us drowned under the pressure of that requiring wave, some soared, but we learned in a profound way that labels were merely heuristic, not essentially true. I have heard tales of meditators who have spent decades on the cushion of practice to learn what we, through the commune, learned in mere years, and learned thoroughly.
The most seductive identification however, was around spiritual acumen or proximity to the ‘master’. This was a game Osho played brilliantly, giving and taking, pulling the rug out from under the very feet he may himself have elevated. After a few years of watching our own ambitions and needs to be recognized both satisfied by external acknowledgment or smashed by non-regard, we reluctantly came to our own conclusions. It was a fantasy. Self-worth, or true self-regard was not going to be handed to any of us from the outside, and if it were, it could as easily be taken away. We each drew our own conclusions from that game.
– The word ‘surrender’ was bandied around a lot, as a means of accepting that which was handed to you, through the system. We were in essence a communist system of organization. Surrender is an empowerment, not a passive state of ‘no choice’, which is regrettably all I knew for those many years when I felt discouraged to question the authority of our community leaders.
Through this, I have come to later learn that surrender is not a passive compliant thing; it has more to do with the full engagement of our yes. It has little overlap with acceptance or resignation, but is rather a full-hearted yes to the situation as it is, whether you like it or not, whether you would prefer it to be different or not. From that vantage, it does not have a passive bone to it. Surrender is an empowerment, not a passive state of ‘no choice’, and I’m grateful that I discovered this, albeit in reverse.
– Maybe the most important thing I learned was to be judicial about giving away to anyone, outside of myself, authority over myself. This self-authorization needs to be held with the equal and opposite knowing that I am but part of the whole, not the determinant. Those two opposite pulls formed the basis of the later study I did of Jung, which was for many years the foundation of my psychotherapy practice: the play and interaction of the masculine and feminine forces within us and finding my way to honor both, rather than attempting to keep them in check or even balance.
I have no doubt that my family of origin, and the early training I received there, were the fertile ground that enabled me to so wholeheartedly accept the notion of ‘master’ as one who knew always best, so I relinquished my own voice. I violated my own sense of boundaries of ethical behavior, time and time again, in deference to belonging. This teaching was of the highest value, and the most intense meditation program I could ever have imagined.
Today I am gathering the pearls of my personal experience into arms of gratitude, mindful (as we have learned to be) that most lessons have embedded within them, the full spectrum of what really works as well as what does not. Both teachings are of value, as Osho the ultimate tantric teacher, so aptly reminded and modeled to us. Both hard earned at the feet of higher learning.
Beloved Friends,
We,as sannyasins in the marketplace, would like to register a complaint about the editor of SannyasNews` statement that he “don`t like this habit that people have of bifurcating their names”.
Swami, our feeling is that you will have to go beyond the petty likes and dislikes of your mind on your journey from here to here.
Love,
Satchidananda Shufflebottom
Deolali Davidson
Abhar Fly
Homa Simpson
Kali Minogue
Omkarananand O`Flaherty
Daneesh Pastry
Lolit Nabakov
Satchitananda Dickgraber
Asheesh Puffin
Deepak Sixpack
Digant De Gant
Tantrika Sexsmith and Gagan Forrit
Ganesh Beady
Gandoo Bottomley
Khoji Berry
Priti Vacant
Sambodhi Special
Shivalingam Rogers
Shivashankar Rimes
Siddhen Nancy
Abhad Tripp
Anant Hill
Barkha Doberman
Baul Sacks
and
Parmartha Conan-Doyle
Here, here, bifurcating indeed! This is not a porn site…well…erh…except for Shantam’s comments, which makes me wonder if he is a bifurcater…probably. Maybe Madhu also. As for the rest of us, we are all good clean churchgoers, with no room in our lives for the disgusting practice of bifurcating.
“(I don’t like this habit that people have of bifurcating their names, but there you go)” (Parmartha)
To provide with a diffuse point of attack in the very first line of the introduction and end up then before the copied long and sincere article in Osho News with:
“On much of this I agree with Priya.”(Parmartha)
This called – no surprise here – those of regulars in an instant on the plane, whose habits are anyway in devalue-ing (not that much reading) the sharings of others, or responding sometimes in a distorted way.
I came in touch with Yoga Priya at very crucial points in my sannyas life:
When she was a group facilitator and therapist in Pune 1, as we say, knowing then, up this very today, that she was so much less misusing (if ever), unlike some others in this role.
When she was travelling (in Germany) in between the phases of the commune then shifted to Big Muddy.
When I have been delighted to see her back in RGB (Oregon) (and as well facing then and there totally delusional ´expectations´ of mine).
Then, the very day before I was deported from the Ranch in some shade of the night by a taxi (1985) it was her, playing the role of interrogation interviewer in the main office in a long interview about my resistance to this and that. (It was only much later I could catch a glimpse that what I saw as cruel procedure and bad luck then was – maybe – the opposite).
Then, many years after, saw her in the Munich TAO centre – but just for a hug – as she had been very busy with others and other stuff I don´t know anything about.
Then, after another very big gap of time, reading here at UK caravanserai this report of Rajesh, and remembering my kind of reluctance when reading of Priya to identify her as ´the´ Priya I knew (as – even not that much into socialising, I know that the name is quite common, like mine too).
The reading of Rajesh’s part was a very hard one for me, as it showed quite clearly that there werew a lot of sannyasins on the Ranch being active parts of the ´calamity. Or in the knowing and keeping quiet about it.
Then – after another little while – seeing her poems and her article (and book) in Osho News with a fresh pic added and some autobiographical notes.
Predominant now is simply the joy on my side, not only about the maturity of her article, but the joy to see her in good conditions nowadays. And whatsoever efforts from her might have cost is quite easy to imagine.
And if she, Priya, reads this, I´d like to send her my love and gratitude too, that we have been about to meet on that pilgrimage.
Madhu
Thanks to Parmartha I have known one new word: bifurcation.
I think it was a strategic method used by the western disciples to promote Osho. For example, when the most successful therapist from Osho Cult writes Ma Prem Turiya it will look fully brainwashed woman who is following some Indian guru. It won’t be easy to make bridges with the non-cultists. Market and customer base will shrink.
So Turiya Hanover looks chic and very Aquarius-like. Almost all the Mas and Swamis in the therapy business are bifurcating their names. In this way they create the impression like Indian street-smart doctors, “I went to Himalayas in search for rare herbs and now I am back in Delhi to cure your joint pain and secret problems.”
Personally, I find social commentary that betrays a lack of understanding how things work to be entirely devoid of value. Thus, the social commentary by teenagers is generally worthless drivel to me.
At some point, you just get tired of hearing the ‘views’ of those that haven’t bothered to learn the first thing about that which they comment on, and I cannot muster anything but ridicule and contempt in response.
Thanks God, Arpana, you are an Osho disciple. With this kind of mind you could have been a mass murderer too.
I am not joking.
Your behaviour is that of desperately immature teenager, and telling you the truth is in your eyes comparable with being a mass murderer.
You’ve pretty much proved, yet again, by that bit of nonsense, you are a desperately immature teenager.
MOD: NO MORE, PLEASE, FELLAS!
The idea is, I suppose, that bifurcating your name makes you look at least half straight for the western world.
It reminds me of when Osho moved to the States and everyone had to get their hair cut, trim beards, get a job etc., to fit in.
I imagined the CIA and the FBI agents in their office, leafing through the photos filed under “Dangerous Cults” and Agent Smith saying to Agent Smith: “Oh, look, these guys used to have long hair, unkempt beards, no underwear and attack each other in padded cells, now they`ve come to the US they`ve had a nice hairdo and have got a job on a farm and some of them are wearing maroon suits. We won`t be getting any problems with them now – let`s close the file.”
Priya is writing of quite a restricted sub-set of sannyasins, those who experienced commune life in Pune 1 and Rajneeshpuram.
She has done a good job of defining some of the benefits, but of course most sannyasins were never commune members, etc.
Some of her later points would in fact be more universal for those who simply wanted to hang out with the old man, and contrived different way of doing that, especially in Pune 1.
Perhaps this is why bloggers here seem much more interested in bifurcating names!
“A rose by any bifurcating name would smell as sweet”
-Vijayanand Shakespeare
Priya says of the then commune organisation (1982-85):
“We were in essence a communist system of organization.”
Certainly a simplistic notion of surrender did predominate in the communes. But it is wise to remember that at that time, commune sannyains may have made up less than 5 per cent of those who saw Osho as a Master….
“We were in essence a communist system of organization.”
Our system of organization in the commune, communes was not less hierarchical than in the non-sannyas world, for being pecking order based, which is built into formal hierarchies anyway. Most people’s idea of surrender was actually a demand for submission to whoever was higher up the pecking order/hierarchy.
P.S:
That is not a complaint. How else could it have been? We were conditioned to such behaviour. Takes time, a lot of it, to get past years of conditioning.
“commune sannyasins may have made up less than 5 per cent of those who saw Osho as a Master….”
This is something. A hard-hitting fact?
At the time I took sannyas (1982) I was told name bifurcation was a legitimate option, and for personal reasons I consciously chose to bifurcate my name from the beginning. Then, in spite of being Samarpan (‘surrender’), I refused to surrender or co-operate with Sheela, because the vibe did not seem right. She made it easy for me not to be a commune resident during the Ranch period.
Sannyas, for me, is, and always has been, a heart-to-heart communion with Osho. This was true during the years when Osho was giving discourses and the years Osho was in public silence. Osho prepared us for his exit, for our independence.
I learned that the presence of Osho in my heart centre was independent of the commune/Ranch/Resort, of Sheela, or anyone else. A strong heart communion persisted whether I was ‘inside’, in the commune, or ‘outside’, in the world. That presence persists now.
I learned that Sannyas transcends Osho’s physical proximity and transcends Osho’s incarnation in a physical body. Sannyas has transcended time and continues to be just as strong now, in the world, in the 21st century, as it was when I first fell in love with Osho in the 20th century.
Samarpan,
Yes, your belief is strong, your conviction firm, your communion with Osho transcendental, your heart-to-heart connection as profound as ever.
I wonder if you might consider where such powerful sentiments may lead?
We see such statements amongst other religions, don’t we? And look where they have taken us.
I don’t doubt your gratitude to Osho, but imagine bringing a child into the world and conditioning them with such beliefs. A child who has never seen nor heard of Osho.
Wouldn’t you sound a little like all the Christians and Muslims who have done so much damage with their convictions?
Surely Gratitude and thanks are enough for what Osho offered you. No need to make him or your experience so special. You have the mark of a martyr about you.
Simond, have you also ever watched your mind?
Don’t you think you are also part of that British crowd who think uselessness of the religion?
About Islam I cannot say, but other religions have given much to the life and are foundations on which human civilization could stand.
One can also ask, if traditional religions have damaged much with their convictions, what kind of bandage new spiritual movements have provided, including Orkut like Sannyas?
Can you share something of your own, where one sees your personal contribution is much more than the average Joe of Christianity, Buddhism or Sikhism?
I think the best way to check the size is to put one’s own also on the table and then to find out the average!
MOD: Orkut – WHAT’S THAT, SHANTAM?
Orkut was a social media site before facebook. Its rise and fall is like Neo-Sannyas.
One can understand better products from Samsung and Apple made Nokia and blackberry obsolete, but in case of Sannyas, there is no better spiritual product in sight.
Sannyas failed because of internal bleeding. This is one fact I am stressing again and again and it is ignored and ridiculed as if I am denying the Holocaust.
The fucking thing in Pune is not just a property worth half billion dollars but a testimony how Osho’s created concept has been grounded by the internal sabotage. There was no hand of Reagan, Sheela, Narendra Modi.
Maybe the fact is, when only 5% saw Osho as master during his lifetime, how many will consider him master post-demise?
MOD: IS THIS LAST PARAGRAPH OK, SHANTAM (IE the fact is AND FRAMING IT AS A QUESTION?
You have failed as a sannyasin, Shantam.
You are a disease in the Sannyas world.
You are projecting, as always.
“Maybe the fact is, when only 5% saw Osho as master during his lifetime, how many will consider him master post-demise?”
Just because perhaps 5% lived in communes in Osho’s lifetime does not imply that only those considered him as a master, Shantam.
Perhaps you misunderstood the original comment to mean only 5% ever bothered to travel to be with Osho?
Otherwise your comment is specious nonsense, twisting the suggested facts to suit a very flawed, rather nauseatingly elitist point of view, appearing to imply that you consider yourself ‘special’.
This 5% thing I have taken from Parmartha’s post and used it as question mark for thought provocation.
In my mind, I won’t say 5%. Anybody who took sannyas for whatsoever reason has taken some kind of jump in their evolution.
Shantam,
Thank you for your questions. I’ve answered some of them below
“Simond, have you also ever watched your mind?”
Please explain further what you mean by watching my mind. In my experience, the process can go on forever, as the mind just runs deeper and deeper. Watching is one thing, understanding it – is quite another.
“Don’t you think you are also part of that British crowd who think uselessness of the religion?”
Yes, I’m part of, but not of, a British crowd, and indeed of a worldwide crowd that questions the validity of religion.
“About Islam I cannot say, but other religions have given much to the life and are foundations on which human civilization could stand.”
You may be right about how much religions have given to life and to the foundations of human civilisation, but this doesn’t also mean that they all have only made a contribution which is positive. Many wars are fought in the name of these religions. Where is the benefit in this? Look around you now and look back at the history of religious wars and ask yourself if the contribution of religion is as deep as you might wish.
“One can also ask, if traditional religions have damaged much with their convictions, what kind of bandage new spiritual movements have provided, including Orkut like Sannyas”
New spiritual movements have both added to my confusion about religion and some have added new insight into my life and to others. Where they have added something, I am grateful. They haven’t ever damaged me, just on occasions confused me, in order to help me get clearer.
“Can you share something of your own, where one sees your personal contribution is much more than the average Joe of Christianity, Buddhism or Sikhism?”
My personal contribution is more than the average Joe of Christianity etc. Beliefs in doctrine, ie in faith and in the words of a teacher, a Jesus or a Buddha or an Osho, seem to have created division and dogma, misunderstanding and confusion. I make no claims for being special but I know I’m not your average Joe. The knowledge that I don’t need dogma, belief and religious doctrine in order to live contently is a measure of my success.
Wars in the past have served their purpose. They were part of their time, consolidated the social norms, brought stability. Our forefathers fought the wars so that we can live peacefully and watch all kind of religious and sexual porn.
Just for your reminder, Simond, I am not a vegetarian and love the military might of the West. I also hope Brexit wins with handsome votes and America gets Donald Trump as next president.
Maybe you have also heard Osho saying in last few discourses, “Wars are important in certain situations.”
“The knowledge that I don’t need dogma, belief and religious doctrine in order to live contently is a measure of my success.” (Simond)
Yes, Simond, and not to forget that you are no ´island; nobody is.
And the moment you open the door to get on the market place (or even in the flat inside) you have to face the ‘average´Joes´, as you say, and you have to face and are confronted with people who ARE into dogma, religious and/or mafia /money, power making doctrines.
And then and there there is the challenge of all these proper statements of some (pretty anonymous) virtual plane.
Same fits for Samarpan, to whom – in my view at least – you may be more close than imagined, just by the way to pull a proper statement. Statements sometimes feeling for me more like a self-hypnotising repetition (reassurance), than results of flesh and bones everyday struggles.
To BE in the marketplace. Yet not being of it, we used to say in the marvellous `kindergarden´, and that was also what the commune setting allowed us to be. To go straightforward, as if there would be no hindrance ever – AND to go astray, as astray as one can go; both of it.
This sounds a bit sharp, I know, but my words here come from the everyday (and today) challenges, ´walk my talk and talk my walk´.
With all trials and errors, and confronted especially with people whose ´love’ is oscillating in between pornographic (often violent) fantasies or, on the other hand, having children, the more, the better, or at least dogs and cats, as a proof that life goes on.
The very least, they are interested in some talk, the kind we are talking here; and if they feel it wavering they are ´inspired for some hate actions, either covered – as it is so easy nowadays in facebook crowds or (I often said it) terror stalking.
Why I am so sharp? Today? Maybe, because – if I even only take THIS very day, this youngster in his twenties, two days ago in Orlando (Florida) or yesterday another one in Paris – slaughtering innocent people with – or without – an `Allah Akbar´scream, showing very clearly therewith that they don´t give a shit about their own life as surely not giving a shit about anybody else´s life.
And believe it or not, they are a tip on quite an icy mountain and there is no Titanic Romance at all about it. And believe it or not, their kind of ´brother- and sisterhood´is growing fast. And no need to look for this far, far away.
I would say any self-hypnotic suggestion that one is ´out of it´ will not give strength to deal with that, what is, and what we are confronted with energetically.
Commune experiences like on the Ranch or also in India gave a strong taste if we allowed ourselves to feel our very vulnerability.
For me – this was possible, to allow it, as love was feelable – neither as a pornographic exercise nor that kind of love of small families, which very often has so much poison in it – and not rarely shows up like a kind of war frame to see others beyond the ´same (blood) section, so to say.
One can only fairly imagine how those youngsters I spoke of have been growing up. But there must have been no grounding possible in anything resembling a life and joy and love affirming area of the soul.
I mean, beyond the agreements one has in the same-blood-section of the small families (if at all!).
And I am very concerned about it.
As I see and feel similiar right next door – so to say.
Madhu
P.S:
Mallorca, Ibiza inhabitants readers may surpass my response…please.
Madhu,
Thanks for your comments, not all, of which I fully understand, but you may be as sharp with me as you wish. No need to apologise for it.
As to meeting average Joes, I work and interact with all sorts of people in my work and in life. When and if I meet religious people, I might sometimes challenge them, if I sense an opening. If not, I may pass by unconcerned. They can lead their lives with their beliefs as they wish.
However if they wish to impose a structure or idea onto me, I may decide to challenge this. I don’t take it personally, I’m not rude or offensive or defensive or scared.
I just use the opportunity to see if what I know makes sense to them. It’s always a discovery.
And in doing so I always learn something new not only about myself but them too.
Finally I have no lasting sentiment about the commune or the Sangha or the presence of the master. That is all past.
I have, as you beautifully put it, moved on from the kindergarten and into the market place.
Simond,
Thank you too – for your response.
I am just wondering what it was that might have called you then (you yourself having closed your Sannyas file, as you say) on a chat website ´Sannyas News-Caravansersai´, responding to ‘average Joes’ (male, female) here? Taking the effort to read here and to write too.
Would you mind to answer this, please?
Madhu
Madhu,
The website is open to all, sannyasins and friends, ex-sannyasins and any others who wish to contribute, including average Joes, and those whose are interested in Osho.
Sometimes I’m enthralled, others a little bored. And like you, I seem to have some extra time to indulge my passion for discovery and exploration online. Crazy, uh?
“Crazy, uh?” (Simond)
No, Simond, not crazy.
Very beautiful.
“imagine bringing a child into the world and conditioning them with such beliefs.” (simond)
Thank you for your comments, simond.
Yes, I did imagine the scenario you mention. As a result, and years before meeting Osho, I made sure to never engage in any conditioning of children with ‘beliefs’ of any kind. I had a vasectomy at age 20. My vas deferens was martyred.
Isn’t it wonderful, simond, to not need any dogma, belief or religious doctrine? Such freedom! Such joy!
Now Samarpan and Simond both can think, if in case Nirvana does not take place at the end of life and karmic laws dispatch you back in some religious family?
Reading your responses, Shantam, it’s getting more and more completely inconceivable for me that you have been ever sitting in Buddha Hall at the feet of the Master and among the thousands of other disciples sitting there.
Same, same Madhu.
Buddha Hall or no Buddha Hall, smoggy people like you who have only contempt for the whole world are too religious for my taste.
No wonder, consumers like you have no know-how how to reconstruct the magic empire again.
“No wonder, consumers like you have no know-how how to reconstruct the magic empire again.” ( Shantam)
You are partly right here, Shantam.
Neither I have been nor am I interested in constructing or reconstructing an “empire”; the “magic”, if I take your word, has been, as I said it, with:
“For me, this was possible, to allow it, as love was feelable – neither as a pornographic exercise nor that kind of love of small families.”
And I am not a “consumer”, nor have I been in that context.
Madhu
Madhu,
It was more to clear one point to use the adjective ‘consumer’. You are a disciple and devotee of that great master who was ridiculed by the world around. I have immense love for all those who dared to trust a master with new vision.
When i came to commune, it was a jump from the world of books to world of another kind of reality. I was inspired by people like you who left the West to be in India.
As an Indian, it is still my deepest wish how I can give my country to thousands of global seekers of alternative spirituality. Only Pune has that potential as ruins and foundation still exists. This wish is thousand times stronger than Enlightenment.
You might be dreaming of recreating something that has had its day, Shantam. It may well be that the home of “alternative spirituality” (as you call it) is no longer India, but beginning to be spread over a number of other countries, via sannyasins and fellow-travellers and other teachers, other ways.
And if such a dream is a “thousand times” more important to you than “enlightenment” (aka the inner search for the truth of your being) then I suggest you have your priorities upside down. (No big surprise there, of course)….
Shantam,
I have no concern for karmic laws despatching me anywhere, but if you are right and I’m sent back to some religious family, then I’ll deal with it then.
Why should I worry about it now?
I have no interest in karmic laws or Nirvana because both are clever religious concepts by priests to control and intimidate the masses.
You are really sharp-shooter seeker, Simond. This next life thing was more a tease. I also don’t bother who will be my advocate up in the sky in Yama’s court, maybe I fight my case myself. In case it is mandatory to have some advocate, Osho won’t be the first, second, third or fourth choice.
You don’t lose balance and reply without getting reactive is worth a quality. I am sure to learn something from this.
I will be glad to see you one day in real life. Surely without any hidden camera to record your face!
Shatam declares, “Maybe I fight my case myself.”
Probably a good idea seeing as how he will definitely lose the case and only losers win in this game.
Lokesh, if there is any kind of court case, would you trust Osho to retain him as your QC?
Shantam enquires, ‘Lokesh, if there is any kind of court case, would you trust Osho to retain him as your QC?’
Eham….e r….no. I cannot imagine Osho in such a scenario. If I try to imagine it the first thing that comes to mind is that he was too long winded. He was also not very good at judging a person’s character.
To talk about human side of Osho is no good for religious business. It is also avoided by those who don’t want to create religion out of him.
In my heart, O is not a saviour or messiah but a socio-spiritual mystic who created a global hub for seekers to meet and meditate.
My reverence for Him is for his product(s).
I think Osho would have made an excellent QC, and wouldn’t mind him representing me in court anytime.
Just because he was able to make such a convincing argument, for or against, on sometimes totally contradictory points.
Reading from that ‘Osho Source Book`, we hear that the young Osho, or Rajneesh as he was then known, made quite an outstanding and convincing argument for his final oral xamination at Sagar university, and when asked by the examiner to explain the major differences between Eastern and Western philosphies, he chose to argue that in effect that there is essentially no difference between Eastern and Western philosophy.
(Of course, it would have been easier for him to highlight the major differences between Eastern and Western modes of thinking).
Apparently, he also deliberately chose to present his argument to an examiner that was known to give low marks, yet still managed to score ninety out of a hundred (not bad for a young man whose mind had been totally blown).
After graduating from uni, the young Rajneesh was also awarded a gold medal, which he decided to throw down a well.
Shantam, on a previous major point, sadly you have misunderstood – in your rush to support another point.
I simply said there were many tens of thousands of sannyasins around the world in 1984, but only somewhere less than 5,000 lived in Rajneeshpuram or the other worldwide communes. I know spin doctors play with the figures but I am sure that is about right, and maybe even that an exaggeration. The commune sannyasin percentage is often put at 5 per cent, but I think this may also be an exaggeration.
My point is that Priya and others over-identify the commune experience as a sannyas experience. Many, many who I would call sannyaisns never went near the communes. And in the end they proved right to have been sceptical of them. At the time many of those tens of thousands living outside the communes still saw Osho as their Master and lived beautiful lives, as many do now.
Thanks, Parmartha,
This reminder and disclaimer is well written and well explained.
Other day I have shared with you one discourse about the esoteric effects of commune spoken by Osho. We cannot deny, Osho was hot from the very beginning about his concept of commune and remained till the last breath.
Now in the last years of life, I think still it is not too late to accept where we did the mistakes as collective. It may not redeem the project but may wash the sins from our soul. Debauchery in the name of spirituality doesn’t go a long way.