The Gandhi Background to Osho
Gandhi at his spinning wheel
One year before Osho was born, in March 1930 Gandhi and his small group of chosen companions set off from his Sabarmati ashram near Ahmedabad in Gujarat. He was aiming to reach the remote coastal hamlet of Dandi, 240 miles to the south, in his attempt to break the British monopoly on salt. He had become an almost messianic figure in his fearless confrontation with the British, and his political vision of swaraj (self rule) had by now reached the remote villages of India. In the following days he set a fast pace in the heat. On his march he was showered by crowds with flowers, coins and kum kum (red powder signifying reverence) which soon created a religious aura around him. He was by now 61 years old, but still he could be seen writing letters late at night after his long daytime march.
When almost a month later he walked across the black sand of Dandi and picked up a handful of natural salt, it was like a crystallization of the freedom movement’s opposition to the British Raj (rule). The news flashed round the world, and within days India was in turmoil. Millions of Hindus began to collect salt illegally all over the subcontinent, with a forceful response leading to riots in Calcutta and Karachi and the stoning of the police in Poona. And when Gandhi and Congress nationalists were arrested in the following months, this prompted a fresh outburst of civil disobedience.
Whatever repressions the British carried out, the moral victory belonged to Gandhi. When, upon his unconditional release in January 1931, the Mahatma (great soul) walked up the steps of the Viceroy’s House to negotiate, now on equal terms, with the viceroy Lord Irwin, this was also a major step in the long process of the liberation of India from colonial power. The agreement they signed was indeed called by some ‘the funeral of our British Empire’ and Winston Churchill rightly made the prophecy that ‘England, apart from her Empire in India, ceases for ever to exist as a great power.’ Never had Gandhi’s prestige been greater, and his spiritual sway left its indelible mark on his opponents defending the British Raj.
The whole situation changed when the Earl of Willingdon was appointed as new viceroy in April 1931. He introduced internment, tighter censorship, identity cards, curbs on assembly, restriction on movement (including bans on bicycles) and even dress decrees (prohibition of Gandhi caps). The whole subcontinent was, according to Jawaharlal Nehru, turned into a vast prison of the human spirit. Within a few years Willingdon also succeeded in weakening and dividing the Indian nationalists, when in 1934 Gandhi chose to resign from the Congress party and distance himself from Nehru.
Gandhi’s fasts in the 1930s soon became a kind of moral blackmail and his slogan Bharat Choro! (Quit India) was the prevailing rallying call not only for his ongoing peaceful disobedience campaigns, but also for the widespread riots that were to follow during the Second World War.
The growth of national feeling and all the events leading to the independence of India at midnight in August 1947 were to leave a profound impact on the childhood of a small boy just being born in 1931. This fabric to end imperial domination was being woven around his birthplace in rural Madhya Pradesh right at that time. His name was later to become Osho.
These few strokes on the socio-political and multicoloured canvas that was India in the early 1930s are to indicate the political world into which Osho was born in Kuchwada and Gadarwara. The outcome of these events was discussed in his Jain family and his politically active uncle was to take part in the action against the British Raj.
This is not to say that Gandhi was the only influence, but we do find lectures and discussions on Gandhi among his first published articles and booklets. Throughout his childhood in Gadarwara he remained affected by Gandhi’s central messages, that of living in search of God, and that of non-violence.
It maybe that this sort of historical background is too little taken into account in the early development of Osho.
When I read this article it seemed as though Osho was inspired by Gandhi, but as I remember how he referred to Gandhi in his talks was contrary to what I assume is inferred here.
I just typed “Osho on Gandhi” and this is the 1st find on my google search engine:
http://www.oshoworld.com/biography/innercontent.asp?FileName=biography3/03-10-gandhi.txt
My impression reading original sources is that Osho was brought up in a Gandhi-influenced family when a boy and early teenager. His uncle contributed to the struggle, as I think Sheela’s father did. In fact, he was briefly a member of a political party.
You are prefectly right, Kavita, that later in his career Osho criticised Gandhi and with vehemence.
Parmartha , I do remember one of his Hindi discourse in which he said something on the lines of “Only when the Earth reaches a boiling point that a Gandhi is born.” Those discourses were probably bait for Laxmi & other Gandhians!
Yes, I was always of the view that Osho’s discourses somehow reflected those who happened to be in the “audience”, as it were. Not at all sure this was conscious, but maybe just picking up in some subliminal way on what was needed that particular day he was speaking.
Even their, in the present moment, preoccupations. I do remember myself one month in the seventies being absorbed by the idea of searching for what was “false” rather than what was “true” and the importance of mistakes in human progress, rather than ego bubbling talk of advances in human progress.
Suddenly next day Osho was talking on such a theme!
Your insight about Osho talking positively about Gandhi would almost certainly be true, I think the interest in him from some rich Gandhian people was important economically. I think that Sheela’s father was also an old Gandhian, and Laxmi’s?
Yes, Parmartha, sometimes I do wonder, like many, that he did what he did mainly for economical reasons and when they were met he went on with his real business of getting to the real point of it .
“In my assertions you will find a thousand and one contradictions.”
https://justpaste.it/t5ul
Thanks for the ‘just paste it’ quote. Apposite.
Thank you, Arpana, for sharing. I somehow missed your post, saw it only now.
Also interested me, Kavita, because the passage is seemingly so straightforward. No smoke and mirrors. No little tricksies going on. (Hmm, I think to myself, what is he up to?).
The article concludes, “It maybe that this sort of historical background is too little taken into account in the early development of Osho.”
I doubt it. In his early years Osho may have used Gandhi as a source of inspiration. Later on it was quite the opposite. Osho heaped scorn upon Gandhi, describing him sometimes as a repressed sexual deviant.
The whole idea that Osho had some sort of development in his childhood that led to him becoming what he was is bogus. That is, if what Osho said about himself was in fact the truth. Osho claimed to be enlightened and that enlightenment is sudden. Enlightenment happens. According to Osho, we are all enlightened but do not realise it. So what does that have to do with any kind of development? Nothing.
Development, in this case, can only have something to do with personality. A phenomenon as transient as our bodies. Osho claimed to be beyond personality, in an eternal state that has nothing to do with this world and, for that matter, Mahatma Gandhi.
I can remember, during the 70s, being influenced my Osho’s negative view of Gandhi, one of many Indian holy personages Osho poked fun at. It was always good for a laugh, when visiting MG Road, to talk to some locals and point to the Mahatma Gandhi statue, a centrepoint in the street, and say “Mahatma Gandoo, great Indian saint.”
The locals in return would exclaim “Gandoo!”, which means asshole, and then burst out laughing, mistakenly believing I was a stupid foreigner who had gotten his pronunciation of the great Indian hero’s name mixed up. Not once did any of the locals become irate about this, which goes to show the tolerance of the Indian psyche when it comes to such matters.
Try pulling that sort of gag in a Muslim community in regards the Prophet. Point to a picture of Mohamed, saying “more ham head” and you would be stoned to death.
Some Muslims might want to stone you if you even asked to see a picture of Mohammed, or enquired how he looked!
Some Muslims would have you stoned to death for suggesting they would have you stoned to death.
Lokesh, I could say you are one brave man on SN!
I have a different take. I am interested in Osho as a man, and know how important early influences and boyhood situations are.
Nonetheless, thanks for the contribution.
Knowing how important early influences and boyhood situations are is one thing. Knowing how important what Osho represented is another. That said, Osho was indeed an interesting man.
What I find most interesting about him was how he claimed to have gone beyond the limited world of personality forever, and in terms of development, going by what Osho indicated, only the personality could develop in relation to who he claimed to be, which was not his personality. Who Osho actually was…was…was…er…fill in the blanks….
The quality of Osho that said most to me, has come to say most to me, was that he didn’t appear to be a slave to the opinions of others in the way everyone I have ever met, including those who hide that fact from themselves, let alone others; and if he was as much a slave to the opinions of others, as anyone, he hid that fact more effectively than anyone I have ever come across.
What Osho appeared to be and what he actually was might not be the same. Osho was very much concerned about his public image in certain respects. A good example would be how he cared about photographs of himself that would appear in his books. No photograph would go to the publisher without him having checked it out and okayed it.
I do not have a problem with that. It does bring into question how beyond it all he actually was. Could be Osho was beyond being beyond it all. It’s that competition for the highest abstraction thing that the Hindus are so good at.
He stage managed the way he dressed, so stage managing photographs doesn’t seem to go against that; and maybe he was just having some fun cos he liked dressing up.
McLoke, of course Osho cared about his photos. Don’t you forget that the photos were the only way of ‘communicating’ with him at that time. Many of us had his photos from the cover of books hanging all around our places before adventuring to India. Don’t forget that was a long time ago! And it was not that easy to get hold of Osho’s books, what to say about his photos? Cheers!
I often wonder how big an influence ZZ Top had on Osho.
Cam’on Lokesh! Have you ever met the man? He didn’t like prints and had a better taste in hats.
One important point by Lokesh needs some examination.
He repeats the widely respected view that enlightened people have somehow gone ‘beyond personality’, and therefore beyond any formative influences in their past. In fact gone beyond entirely.
Hence for example, the facts of Buddha’s actually very soft and rich early life, or Jesus’ humble background, or Rumi’s endless refugee status changing many countries and situations with his family, are not really of interest in terms of their enlightenment.
I dont answer these questions here, but they seem to presuppose that “enlightenment” exists as a separate state totally beyond almost all other men, and that what might happen to anyone in early life, like bereavements, homelessness, etc does not prompt certainly a search for the beyond, and the flavour of such enlightenment if we are going to use that word.
My impression is they only drop the identification with the experience. They are as they are, and teach as they teach because of the life they have had, actually and ego connected. The ego that accrued, because of the life they had, that dissipates, goes
I can reflect back on life experiences with which I became identified, developed ego, and the ego has gone, the identifying has gone, but the experience still happened.
Just read Gurdjieff’s ‘Meetings With Remarkable Men’ for the umpteenth time. Remarkable book.
According to Gurdjieff, our higher centres are already open. The problem is that our lower centres create an oily, murky film that effectively blocks out the finer vibrations transmitted from our higher centres. I see this as connecting with the idea that we are already enlightened but unaware of it.
Of course, the word ‘enlightenment’ has been so overused and misused that it now goes in one ear and out the other, without turning on any lights on the way through. So let’s just say we are already jacked in to the divine, but unfortunately we are jacked in with worn cables that no longer function effectively. In rare moments the current breaks through and we feel inspired. The rest of the time we stumble around in the dark lands of the samsara like bio-robots.
I have heard much blah…blah…about Gurdjieff. I wonder if any of his disciples felt around him what many of us felt around Osho. Just curiosity.
This is a cool post from Tan, taking the bull from his horns.
Tan,
I don`t think it`s for you
It`s a man thing.
Sitting around in Turkish baths with a bunch of sweaty, hairy guys shooting testosterone, waxing their `taches and boasting about how many yaks they can kill just by thinking about it, and how aware they can remain whilst drinking loads of spirits, smoking loads of fags, pretending to be drunk, calling people idiots and telling stories about scams that they`ve pulled and their meetings with remarkable men. No remarkable women – actually there is one and she`s dressed like a man!
It`s a macho meditation.
And soooo last century.
A bit like ZZ Top!
Yes, Tan, Frank is right. Not for you. I agree 100%.
Got it, Frank boy, very well put, as always! XXX
Warning:
I am about to embark on a trip down memory lane. Those wishing to stay in the here and now should look away now.
The first time I ever heard of Gurdjieff was in the 1975 BIT guide ‘Overland to India’. It was a pamphlet produced by hippies with lists of bus prices, hotel prices, dope prices etc.
In the part of the introduction where they gave tips about how much money a traveller would need the authors said something like “Gurdjieff travelled round the East for years with no money.”
In my youthful ignorance I had no idea who this guy was and assumed he must have been a well-known hustler and squatter from Ladbroke Grove, like Lemmy or something.
Anyway, that was one of the ways that G entered the world of ragtag magi who wanted it to be free by pulling scams, flogging dodgy canaries – and worse – and getting out of town before it rained as they flowed with the river flow and moved on to some other town….
Love it!
If you can tell us more of your experience with the “enlightened losers”, please, do! XXX
Enjoyed this post, Frank.
Not bad, Frank. G tells his dodgy canaries story with a lot more flair. Enjoyed your post.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z78_rAg4Ldg
That’s a mobile link, which hopefully automatically reverts to a PC link.
The point being is that if anyone can remotely recognise themselves either as a Gandhian or from the Church of Osho, could you write in with a daily diary of the synched-up parts of your day or identity? Thanks.
Today I thought, using my mind of course, how there would be no formal or informal Oshoism, that is the archetypes we bandy about casually, without, well, erm, us, ourselves – yes, and Tom, Dick and Harriet. Which kind of makes it all hinge upon you and me. Which often goes unnoticed in the school of icon adorers.
Of course, even the meditations become important too rather than the You who authorises you to do it. Similar to the generic “Dynamic is happening at 7 or did you do Kundalini?” This truly misses out the all-important you or me who gets up, faced with oneself and ploughs through the staged targets like a military marine; thinking of which I’m reminded of the lyrical Lenny Cohen who did all that stuff for six frigging years…And had this to say:
“I joined a tiny band of steel jawed zealots
who considered themselves
the Marines of the spiritual world.
It’s just a matter of time:
We’ll be landing this raft
on the Other Shore.
We’ll be taking that beach
on the Other Shore.”
From ‘The Poems of Leonard Cohen’: ‘The Book of Longing’.
My point is this, and not to harp on old tunes but there was nothing as deeply non-anarchistic as the deference of the formal communes, including Veeresh’s place. In effect, unless you could provide the same or similar version of psychic authority then whoever was in charge of the atmosphere of a given community ran or runs the show. Ultimately, that means you or I don’t exist as voices, which neatly sums up the equivalence between the British Empire, Gandhism and the Church of Osho. They are brands with off-the-peg, ready-to-use scripts, identities, ideologies, which sacrificed the autonomous voice for ritual and crass performance routines.
Frankly speaking, as a youngste back then, the hocus-pocus around the manufactured deference of 80s and 90s Oshoism made me puke. Those self-same forms are alive and kicking today and if the truth be told, unless you yourselves \ us\ I can make better use than what the brand offers then the formal clones, ritual users and deference specialists will turn all that potential for a noisy autonomy into disgusting rituals of sacred hogwash sold as love supreme. Of course, it may well be just that, but you can’t replicate by unmocked rote. That way you can be assured it’s a cemetery of religion that exists, instead of your vibrancy.
Salvation, Imperialism and Nationalism – all bullies in service of themselves driven by those who would be better off at least declaring their love of spectacle, acting and control.
XXX
Enjoyed this one, Martyn, which makes a bit of change as you often seem as obsessive about certain issues as Shantam. But here you’ve nailed some of the problems inherent in ‘institutions’, however ‘rebellious’ they were originally supposed to be.
Perhaps not strictly relevant, but never mind, this reminds me of a recent email from the Labour Party, urging me to buy postcards with ‘socio-political’ messages on them, one of which (a quote from Jeremy Corbyn in the ‘Ironic’ section) included:
“You don’t have to be
Grateful to survive
In a world made by others.”
This was in the context of poverty, limited life chances and low expectations for oneself and one’s children, but it resonates on other levels as well, particularly the plight of children in families, schools, and later, the workplace and beyond. Maybe in the set-ups you found so intolerable, Martyn?
Lastly, I have to mention another little quote that turned my uncomfortable inner state around while travelling by bus to a medical appointment in central London on Friday, feeling ill at ease through not having done my daily half hour of exercises (a habit since 1980 – the exercises, not missing doing them) and at odds with what I felt as the oppressive busy-ness of the streets. Looking out the window I saw a middle-aged man, quite possibly homeless, or anyway some sort of ‘outsider’, standing in a doorway carrying a placard that read:
“Smile – it’s just another day in Paradise!”
Don’t know about a smile, but I certainly had a good internal, ‘knowing’ laugh at that one, which suddenly transformed my ‘condition’. Typical British response-to-adversity sort of humour, I suppose (worthy of and maybe originating in the army, first world war trenches?).
Apart from the rather grim irony, I guess the beneficial effect was due to the sense that I wasn’t the only one ‘suffering’ in that outer and inner environment.
Did you feel you were the only one having a hard time, for the reasons you gave, in those Osho communes then, Martyn?
Love your post, Satyadeva.
It’s really interesting to read about the inner state in the here-now. And most of the time is a laugh ( even if internal ). Reminds me of Osho! XXX
Good anecdote, young SD.
SD,
Am typing in group lunch break. I felt the London Insaniversity to be a complete nuthouse at the time, both then and looking back. Also, of course, Poona 1, but I was very, very young, 20 years old then. Pune 2 was different and more personal and relevant. Some idiots tried on the spiritual light voiced bollocks in Ko Hsuan, which got short shrift from me. Currently, there is another scenario happening, but I’m in it so don’t feel to cast the analysis out just yet.
And btw, SD, as for hammering out the old tunes on the ol’ pianola, you might do well to notice that you’re an old pro in that Cockney band of yours, Shants and Dave.
Martyn, those past scenarios of your Sannyas ‘career’ you mention are already well known here. What I was asking was whether you were (or felt you were) the only one suffering in such ways, a lone voice amidst a ‘collective idiocy’.
No, not alone, progressively bonded with some great mates and matesses over the years. Some rip-roaring fun in Muswell Hill in the 90s and still these last years…with some major relating glitches along the way which needed anti-therapy and fun to heal. I’m on tea break… Must dash. Cheers.
Good post.
Among all the sects and cults, people belonging to Sannyas cult talk about Enlightenment as if they have adopted street dogs and raised as pets.
Who knows, people who claim to be enlightened are freaks of the Nature, exceptions to the rule?
When one raises questions it is courageous to go to the mother of all the questions, “What if Enlightenment is once in a 145 million Jackpot to allure millions to play lottery?”
In India, anyone who has some brain, some awareness to know the world around, influence of Gandhi is unavoidable. Same can be on Rajneesh Chandra of that time. Surely Osho´s calling was religion and spirituality and not politics and diplomacy and that too till the level of creating His own brand.
One can say, Osho is one of the most brainy, intelligent and ambitious spiritual masters India has produced in recent history. He will be remembered as a master whose disciples are smarter than all others, thanks to vast spiritual literature spoken like a One Enlightened Industry.
Shantam declares, “Osho will be remembered as a master whose disciples are smarter than all others.”
He is mistaken, because he is not in the least smarter than all the others.
Lokesh, your understanding about irony and sarcasm is not of high quality. No wonder, you are a Scottish and not a British, some fineness and subtlety is missing.
May I suggest you to drop Gurdjieff kind and focus a bit on Lachlan McLachlan´s everyday observations. For example, it’s frustrating when you know all the answers but nobody bothers to ask you the questions….
Shantam, I find it impossible to take anything you say seriously. How do you know that I do not understand your intended irony? After all, it is hardly subtle. Sarcasm needs little understanding, other than it is for dummies.
About Gandhi and Osho:
I came across my first Hindi book in 1983 in some relatives’ home. I was looking for something to read and one Osho book was lying on the radio. Casually I took it in my hands and I don´t know why, within first seconds the language and the sincerity in the words got me.
The book belonged to another guest who came from another town to participate in the marriage festivity, so I finished the book during my stay and next day I went to the shop of my school colleague who was a news agent and bookseller. During those years in small towns it was possible to rent books and magazines. I did not want to rent such thought provoking books so I bought two second-hand books, one of them was a bulky volume, ‘Dekh Kabira Roya’ (‘Kabir Saw And Wept’) on Mahatma Gandhi, by Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh.
‘Dekh Kabira Roya’ is a common saying in India when someone knows the shit is happening but cannot do anything; for example, corruption in daily life and the helplessness of the citizens to do something. When diagnosis is clear but remedy is not available one says in desperation, “Dekh Kabira Roya!”
I was few months short of my 21st birthday. Osho´s words were of wise social and political scientist and he was hitting mercilessly on Independent India´s biggest icon propagated by the ruling class. I was enjoying the fiery words but I was not disciple yet. It was just my first week in company of Osho´s books. As issues were social and political and my thoughts were provoked I started writing with pencil as side notes.
Ten years later when we sold the house, I gave all my Osho books to the Centre. I was part of life in Pune and when you live at ground zero, who bothers about the books? When I go to the city again this year I am thinking to take this book back for the sake of reading my side notes.
What I can remember vaguely are the points when I read Osho saying, “Congress Party is exploiting the legacy of Gandhi for its political and narrow goals, where I have written, “Will not Acharya´s followers do the same with him?”
And at the point where Osho says why he does not call Gandhi ‘The Mahatma’, i have written, “And you want people to call you ‘Bhagwan’ – what kind of double standards you are holding, Acharya Ji?”
I think two, three weeks later I was addressing him like a disciple, “Bhagwan Shree”, and this was the only Osho book where I have written the side notes.
Yes, looks like those here who might be more familiar with India and the Indian background accept that, despite his apparent dislike of Gandhi later in life, Osho did sometimes speak of him in a positive light when young, and with respect.
Osho may have spoken on A to Z of religious and social icons mostly in a criticising tone and sometimes patronising them, in the end he has made his intentions clear, he was using them as hanger for his coat, he was chopping the people from different groups to create his own.
How one can do this without hitting at the drawbacks and giving channel to discontentment?
In our time, others don´t need even to do this. Discontentment and disillusionment among the O disciples is so great, there is not a single teacher, master, author who is not being dated by westerns with names originated from Sannyas cult.
Honestly speaking, all the bloggers can ask themselves to how many wise people they have gone. There must be something vital lacking. Nothing wrong in this, very human.
Shantam, isn’t it blindingly obvious that what’s lacking in the Sannyas movement disappeared 26 years (and nearly) 3 months ago?
What’s lacking in your life? What didn’t you get from Sannyas that makes you so discontented? (N.B: Citing whatever you think is wrong with the collective Sannyas is irrelevant to my question).
The many others you mention that are moving on, exploring other ways, other teachers, other teachings, are dealing with their discontent (be it ‘divine’ or otherwise).
You, on the other hand, appear to be doing nothing except to complain. While imagining you’re master-minding some hugely significant work.
Not impressive, just another way of filling in your time, of avoiding the real issues within..
Do you experience Osho as not around, not available, SD?
I ask this because he said something in a discourse this morning that really struck a chord, and the quote I posted for big P was said in a discourse on that day, and was relevant, imo, to what P. had written the previous day.
Arps, I was making the point to Shantam, re his personal concerns, that things would be totally different in Poona if Osho were still around. After his departure it was inevitable everything would gradually wind down, whoever was in charge, whatever ‘regime’ was in control.
I don’t disbelieve Osho remains available, although I can’t pretend he’s an intimate living presence for me. Which doesn’t mean I’m not grateful for what I’ve received, from him and his movement, his people.
Ah right. Got it.
Good post.
SD,
It is not fitting with the mindset of many, fact is I am more or less one man army who is diagnostic in his approach, whereas many hide their little self behind the veil of Osho´s literature and his great adventure.
On this site, Lokesh raises the question on Osho, who is no more. I raise the question on the sect who is here and now.
And anyway, if I have to be you, I will be me.
Shantam declares, “I will be me”.
“Me”? Who the fuck is “me”? Shantam, you and Tan could have a great chat about that.
Thanks for the suggestion, McLoke, but, nah…I’d rather have a chat with you because we have plenty in common: both of us live on an island, both of us chop wood: for heating (you) and cooking (me), and both of us enjoy swimming.
What we don’t have in common is that you enjoy the lifestyle and I feel bored to death after some time. Cheers!
Boredom? When I feel anything that could be described as boredom I give it a good looking into.
Anyway, we probably share a good bit in common. Shantam is a really sweet guy, who talks a lot of absolute rubbish on SN. When we met we had no deep talks, yet something connected that lives way below the surface, like Moby Dick meets the Loch Ness Monster…aieeeeeee!
What is the difference between a Muslim and a sannyasin?
Muslim will kill such a person who claims to be enlightened. Sannyasin will ask where is such a person? I must visit.
I think these are two visible extremes in the followers of religions, sects, cults and meditation resorts. Muslim will screw the whole world but won´t raise a question on his religion, whereas sannyasin will say proudly, ”We are no religion.”
How wonderful to know everything about every body all the time, Shantam, and interesting how everything you know about everybody always fits your prejudices, and makes you look 10000 times better to yourself than you are.
How is it possible that you don’t understand what a sweeping generalisation is?
While writing or speaking, it is a common and established practice to use the terms which are general by nature. It is to stress upon some point; for example, it was said, Osho is a rich man´s guru. Now it is a general statement with some truth. Similarly, it is said, India is a poor country. It is general as well as in relative terms.
My point in the previous posts is, majority of Osho disciples have become indifferent with the happenings in their own cult. Are they growing in peace and in silence? I have doubt.
Now someone can try to be smart and say, “Have I done a systematic survey?” Yes, I have not done but surely can do, if someone tells how many people are sannyasins? It is convenient to say in millions!
Shantam,
I don’t see Sannyas as having failed or succeeded (not enough information, nor is it possible to get it, in my view.)
However, if I was to make a sweeping generalisation based on the information you feed Sannyas pretty much daily, regarding middle-aged men, middle-aged Indian men, middle-aged Indian men with sannyas names, who are really still Sikhs, Osho’s work has definitely failed. (You really need to try and understand the concept of credibility).
Wow, the distilled wisdom of that comment is simply terrific!! I bet you spent many months working that one out, Shantam.
You always miss the point (that applies to all of us), stuck as you are in a nice little convenient comfort zone of complaint, ie whether YOU yourself are growing in peace and silence.
Others don’t matter and you’ll never really know anyway. Just as you don’t matter two bits to me, Shantam, except in so far as I choose to respond to your foolishness here.
“Yes,” said the boastful man, “my family can trace its ancestry back to the Mayflower.”
“I suppose,” remarked his friend, sarcastically, “next you will be telling us that your ancestors were in the Ark with Noah.”
“Certainly not.” said the other. “My people had a boat of their own.
Osho.
Yoga: The Alpha and the Omega, Vol 7
Chapter #9
Chapter title: Into The Fantastic
Shantam says, “Are they growing in peace and in silence? I have doubt.”
No surprises there. As one is, so the world appears.
Lokesh, next time take the essence of my post to build your wise comment. Taking 15 words out of 500 is too easy a way. Many times these 15 words are just the side pickles on the main dish.
Shantam, next time try thinking and writing with more integrity before pouring out such gratuitous, self-serving, propagandist rubbish, whether you deem it “side pickles” or a bloody great banquet.
This tendency of yours is a contributory factor as to why you have little or no credibility here.
Gandhi was just like “side pickles” to Osho.
But don`t forget, Osho was eating from a plate of very rich Indian food.
And this one?
What a stud!
And to return to the string!
Osho father’s two younger brothers, Amrit Lal Jain (second born) and Shikar Chand Jain (third born) were to have an influence on Osho, according to the Indian memory. Amrit Lal’s education was in high school and later at college in Jabalpur and was financially supported by Osho’s father. In 1932 Amrit Lal actively took part in Gandhi’s independence movement and he, like many others, was imprisoned by the British. With his quest for independence and freedom – not to mention his literary talent – Amrit Lal and Gandhi had quite an impact on Osho, who also from his very young days was expressing himself in the writing of poems.
Osho said of him:
“One of my uncles was a poet, but the whole family was against him, they destroyed him. They did not allow him…they withdrew him from the university because they saw that if he passed from the university then all he was going to do was write poetry. He was not interested in business at all, while sitting in the shop he was writing poetry.”
(‘From Ignorance To Innocence’ #1)
When Amrit Lal was married by the family to an attractive woman, his wife burned all Amrit Lal’s poems, and the family in this way kept him from writing and kept him tethered to the lowest part of his being.
I suspect that Osho learned an unbelievably strong lesson from this treatment of his uncle, Amrit Lal: not to be bullied into following a profession at university, and vehemently avoiding marriage, despite his family’s enormous pressure.
Interested to hear anything more about this uncle from our Indian friends.
As an Englishman I apologise unreservedly for the imprisonment of Amrit Lal in 1932.
Parmartha, as an Englishman do you apologise unreservedly for the imprisonment of one Amrit Lal in 1932 or the death sentence of India´s three young martyrs and score of other political prisoners too?
Anyway, I must say thank you to British Raj for giving us Indians the idea of a nation and leaving behind the language which has changed the way world communicates.
Before the British Raj, the Indian subcontinent had hundreds of kingdoms ruled by Rajas and Maharajas; the assholes bigger and stinkier than the others.
Perhaps what appealed to the young Osho was Gandhi’s orthodox Advaita Vedanta approach, which was in harmony with Vivekananda’s Practical Vedanta?
Gandhi also represented the heterodox Jain concept Anekantavada, and Osho did come from a Jain family, so that might have been another attraction?
Gandhi also represented a form of religious pluralism that might have resonated with the young Osho?
The later break with Gandhi might have been over the politicisation of the Gandhi movement, with a focus more on power dynamics than on individual spiritual growth?
Just some random questions, for what they are worth.
It`s also about the ‘look’.
I think the young Osho was also quite enamoured of the simplicity of Gandhi`s fashion sense, which he seemed to favour at Uni. He later experienced a sartorial sartori and moved to a more expansive, Tagore-ish apostolic look later on and culminated in the shoulder-pad Star-trek look…
He went against Gandhi mostly on the point that Gandhi was a borderline paedo on a poverty trip.
Osho`s message was clear:
Sewing your own clothes and bullying your wife ain’t where it’s at.
Riding around in expensive gear in a Rolls with a bunch of lookers is.
I think everybody here knows that already.
Frank, my observation is a little different: Gandhi wore a complicated ‘dhoti’ whereas Osho wore a without-any-much-contraption ‘lungi’. Maybe you are right about the Tagore-ish part & the good looks!
Kavita,
I see what you mean.
Lunghi is comfortable, but when I tried to put a dhoti on, it either fell off or I tripped over it. (I am a red-bottomed baboon, after all).
But I was thinking that adopting either the lunghi or dhoti in their respective social circles at the time, Osho and Gandhi were maybe both kind of bucking the trend?
Ya, Frank, both bucking the trend in their own way, for sure!
P.S:
I love such red-bottomed baboons sometimes!
Me too!
While Osho’s sartorial choices were his business, I never agreed with Osho’s reactionary embrace of synthetics and rejection of cotton. Nor did I use cotton as a political statement, as Gandhi did. Cotton was Gandhi’s choice, and my choice, but mine was a choice for functionality, for coolness, for comfort. Cotton is also easier to dye the colors of sunrise.
You sound as if you’re a bit miffed because Osho isn’t as much of a puritan as you are!!!!!
Samarpan,
Did Osho reject cotton in favour of synthetics?
Was he wearing polyester chuddies, too?
I think we should be told.
How we can have the future when our master is in the past?
My impression of reading today´s posts.
“How we can have the future when Shantam is in the past?”
Doesn’t matter. Shantam is an irrelevant pest.
“How we can have the future when our master is in the past?”
Ever thought of trying the present?
Frank, my impression of reading today´s posts means I am trying the present.
Someone can be abusive when religious feelings are hurt, but you, Frank, the British satirist and ex-cultist, should not write theoretical wisdom in response to irony!
Shantam,
Here`s a tip from a “British satirist”:
If you have to keep on explaining that your posts are “irony”, then it`s very likely that your attempts at irony are failing.
No, I don´t think my posts are failing in their attempt. I get enough feedback from the readers.
In any field, pears can never accept someone is better than them. Specially those pears have very thin skin ego who do not even stand for their work.
MOD: pears, SHANTAM? WHAT ABOUT apples, bananas, apricots, cherries? PLEASE CLARIFY!
Thanks a lot, Parmartha, I don´t think I will ever forget again the difference between peer(s) and pear(s).
Please don´t correct my mistake in the main post and your MOD. It will encourage others, by writing at snews you get the chance to improve your English!
Shantam says:
“No, I don´t think my posts are failing in their attempt.”
You are simply wrong, unless of course you are attempting to sound like a broken record.
“I get enough feedback from the readers.”
Read it and see what kind of feedback it is.
Another masterpiece of irony, Shantam?
Or monumental self-delusion born of supremely misplaced self-importance, mixed with a high dosage of sheer stupidity, a noxious combination indeed, the source of which most experts believe to be innate, ie almost a ‘given’ from birth, doubtless exacerbated by early environmental influences and current personal circumstances, the latter’s painful deficiencies having prompted the mind to compensate by creating an elaborate fantasy world wherein you are the hero who tirelessly fights Evil (as a ‘keyboard warrior’, of course), rights communal wrongs and restores ‘the kingdom’ to its former pristine glory (ie heaving with thousands of eligible foreign women, from whom, as an important, seasoned spiritual warrior, you, now deservedly the new Chairman, can take your pick – after the obligatory ‘White Robe’, but of course).
As Lokesh has indicated, apart from all that utter, pseudo-mythical nonsense, I’m sure you’re perfectly lovely. Thus, in classical liberal free speech/open debate theoretical terms, I reject your nonsensical notions while accepting your essential value as a fellow human being, thereby separating you the man from your ideas.
Mmmm…however…come to think of it, that’s a very tricky issue that begs many rather complex questions. Too late to explore that now though….
P.S:
Shantam, look up ‘delusions of grandeur’ and see how this term applies to you.
Also note how swiftly your unconscious defence mechanisms operate to inform you it’s all nonsense, that none of that ‘psychological stuff’ could possibly describe you, and that whoever dreamed it up must be a total fool.
And watch how the reactive rage automatically rises, making you want to hit out at me…
All to avoid seeing these aspects of yourself!
Sounds condescending, patronisingly ‘superior’, perhaps? Thing is, it’s all very basic stuff, but it seems it has to be spelt out to you as in terms of self-knowledge/self-reflection you come across as if you’ve never gone beyond a sort of ‘primary school’ level (if that).
Masters are supposedly in Timelessness; that’s what I have read & heard. Does this mean time factor is disciple’s headache?!
“Masters are supposedly in Timelessness; that’s what I have read & heard.” (Kavita)
Who knows it is myth, just like myth of Socrates’s time that women have less teeth than men. Soothing myths are lifeline of religions and I have read and heard disciples of late Osho Ji don´t want to create religion.
I think we need to discuss, is the child a boy or a girl or a transgender or someone trapped in the wrong body?
In sannyas lingo, this is what mystery is.
“I think we need to discuss, is the child a boy or a girl or a transgender or someone trapped in the wrong body?
In sannyas lingo, this is what mystery is.”
In sannyas lingo, everything is mystery, including you, Shantam!
Certainly does, Kavita!
Isn’t time often one of the main problems we have, eg ‘finding time’ to get things done, meeting deadlines, being ‘on time’, regretting ‘wasting time’ etc. etc. – even being reduced to ‘killing time’ through boredom (not to mention seeing our appearance aging ‘as time goes by’)?
Here’s another take on one of those instances though…
https://youtu.be/ydISmerNQxI (N.B: headphones essential!)
There was Gandhi vs. Martin Luther King Jr:
https://youtu.be/jyrONsewQW8
I said to myself before I clicked on that link, bet this is to a Ron Sexsmith video; which has amused me, but in an entirely positive way. ◕‿ ◕
Maybe join me next time he’s over here then, Arps?!
I’ve listened to a couple of his concert videos, and I reckon’ I would enjoy a live performance. (I enjoy music by long standing live bands I would never normally listen to).
SD, many times somehow I think the only real thing I have is time and want to spend it on the most essential thing, which is breathing effortlessly!