The Old Place in Jabalpur

Osho the bookman?,  Osho offering a certain penetration to his interviewer? The modest circumstances in which Osho lived at that time?
The interviewer was Ajit Jain. He never became a sannyasin, and only visited Poona once. He asked a question of Osho when he did come.   Osho apparently hit him real hard!  He never came back again – and like many Jains at that time,  left Osho. However they had been very interested in his early work – and they supported him financially at that time.

Osho and Ajit Kumar Jain
Ajit apparently once invited Osho to his village called Pindarai  a hundred kilometres from Jabalpur and traveled there with Osho in the 1st class coach. The train station was situated about two kilometres from Pindarai proper. The villagers welcomed Osho by beating large drums and Osho had to walk amid those deafening drum beats while dust was being stirred high up along the path until they reached the village. Osho held a meeting in the afternoon, delivered a speech in the evening and returned to Jabalpur by morning train at 5 am. Perhaps one can understand the early return!

Ajit became the first editor of Yukrand magazine, assisted by Arvind Kumar Jain and Ma Yoga Kranti (both Osho’s cousins) and Shree Abdul Radeem.

Osho took much interest in the publication of the Yukrand magazine; as reported in The Osho Source Book.

Ajit recalled: “When reading, Osho was looking at one page at a glance. He was always reading with a pencil in his hand, leaving marks in the book. He was so fond of reading and had spend so many hours on reading, six to seven hours a day, also borrowing books from a Jain library, Chouksey Mandir Library. When he was writing letters and manuscripts he was using his Parker fountain pen.

“In his later days he devoted 10 to 12 hours for daily study, and he had his own method of studying. Where he saw some very important point in the text of that book, he used to mark it with a red pen. And if it was some moderate meaningful text, he used a green pen. So in this way he categorized the important points by adding red or green points or some underlined headings.”

Later in life Ajit married and  worked  as an advocate.

(This story reflects something similar in Osho News. But as they dont allow comments, we thought to expand it here at SN)

 

 

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69 Responses to The Old Place in Jabalpur

  1. Arpana says:

    I feel warmth when I look at that picture of Osho in his younger days. Gratitude. Respect. My breathing is slowing. What good karma that I was fortunate enough to be alive when he was alive. What good fortune to have been able to get to Poona. To be strong enough and fit enough and wealthy enough, even if I was not very well of by western standards, to get to spend time near him. That I had developed the drive and initiative to take the jump into sannyas, go of to India on my own, and leave a life where I was a big, albeit bored to death, big fish.

    • shantam prem says:

      Thanks, Arpana, for writing something which has warmth.

    • Parmartha says:

      Thanks, Arpana.
      The picture moved me. I find it difficult to articulate it. It gives off the feeling of ordinairiness. It is also something with which I could identify.

      Being in just an ordinary rented room, sat on a bed with a friend and some books – yes, something which I did many times when I was young also.

      In the words of the old Sannyas song,
      “Just an ordinary man” – but those eyes!

      • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

        Yes, “those eyes!”, Parmartha…

        Just “penetrating” will not do – ferocious came into my mind; an amazing pic of an intimate meeting some forty years ago – still so strong.

        Didn´t feel invited into the moment happening there, felt more like intruding, just looking at it. I´ve been wondering who took the pic – and all in all found being beamed into quite an intimate exchange here.

        The young (educated) counterpart seems to be so busy with concentrated taking notes like a journalist or a pundit of whatsoever, and I wondered to what extent he might have grasped what is behind-and-beyond words spoken. He has a big skull, it seems.

        Once and again experiencing also the strengths and the depths of a NON-digital photo. Not so much ordinary – the room – I would say, and in spite of the masses of materialized mental stuff, one can catch a moment beyond it all.

        A bit scary (for me) and I don´t know why.

        And thank you so much to come up, finally, Parmartha, and also you, Frank; as I started to feel a bit desolate about the ongoing shuffle(s).

        Have a beautiful day.

        Madhu

      • Parmartha says:

        The actual words of the sannyas song which has no known writer is:

        Just one ordinary man has changed my life ( 4x)
        You are the one (5x)

  2. shantam prem says:

    Maybe the early years of master´s work can be termed as Era of Innocence. Almost all of us have the feeling even the books of those years have something wonderful coming out from them, a kind of intoxicating fragrance; as if opium powder is sprinkled on the papers.

    No wonder, the means of transportation were limited. Journey to India was very inconvenient; one must say goodbye to the family and relatives; who knows one does not come back alive from dangerous pilgrimage route?

    There was no bottled water at that time nor aqua filter machines, yet something wonderful took place. Every photo of that time radiates hope, trust, joy and innocence.

    Question is: Is there some possibility to create that Era of Innocence again?

    • satyadeva says:

      I think I know what you mean, Shantam, but there’s absolutely no use being stuck in yearning for an irretrievable past. Such a condition is ultimately mediocre, nothing ‘special’ at all, however seductive might be the evidence of one’s highly selective memory, and it’s shared by backward-looking sentimentalists of all persuasions.

      I suspect it will come to pass only if you find a state of such “innocence” within yourself, Shantam, and live in it.

      Otherwise such yearning for past conditions is impotent, born of unhappiness, and guaranteed to make you even more miserable.

      Might be hard for you to stomach, but who said reality must fit our personal concepts of how it ‘should’ be? Our self-ish little minds, perhaps?!

      I suggest you look into this as such ultimately self-defeating tendencies seem to be significant characteristics of yours.

      • shantam prem says:

        What a bullshit from a pundit. I feel not sorry for you but your mentors and the authors you read.

        Sometimes I feel like a watermelon who is being sold to the people who like to eat the shell and throw away the bloody red part.

        I will be grateful, SD, if you let go of my posts. Write something of your own or comment on the work of others.

        • satyadeva says:

          Well, the truth can hurt, Shantam, and by your instantaneous reaction it seems it’s hit the spot. By undermining your precious sentimentalism that has absolutely nothing to do with anything real now.

          You constantly substitute an unreal personal dream, all based on a dead past, for the reality of the present. Clearly because your life is something of a nightmare.

          And you flatly refuse to see this, or even look at the possibility it might be true, thus further reducing your already considerably undermined intelligence.

          This wilfully self-created unintelligence (some might call it self-created stupidity) is a major reason why you have no credibility at SN, why you are constantly criticised, mocked, even reviled.

          That would change if you showed signs of genuine self-insight and some sort of understanding of the way things are in life.

  3. shantam prem says:

    Aha…
    As per the readers of psychological pop texts, “If you are adoring the more than half-century old photo of some gentleman who has already died quarter a century ago, you constantly substitute an unreal personal dream, all based on a dead past, for the reality of the present. Clearly because your life is something of a nightmare.

    This kind of sentimentalism displaced by the persons who are already in their mid-sixties shows only one thing: they did not get enough love from their father…(so on and so forth).”

    Sometimes I really wonder about the mindset of such Beyond Religion People (BRP). I also wonder, if they are so contented with their life, why the heck they search for those not even high school passed foreigners who give them toffees to lick and hugs to remember.

  4. shantam prem says:

    My impression is that contributors of sannyasnews forget the contents and the spirit of the string. One topic can generate different thoughts in different people. For example, old photo of Osho created some thoughts in the creator of this string. To join that, I took the initiative to add photos of old books and my thought.

    This is the way I think tapestry of thoughts merge with each other and create some wholesome picture.

    It requires Maturity of the mind to appreciate the multitude of possibilities, but no, few pundits have the preconceived notion to know better than the others. This breeds hostility instead of communication.

    • satyadeva says:

      Shantam, apart from the fact that most of your first response to this article drips with sentimentality, I’m afraid you ‘blew’ any possible demonstration of “Maturity of the mind” with your final comment: “Question is: Is there some possibility to create that Era of Innocence again?”

      Seems your problem is you desperately want to ‘step into the same river twice’. If you still don’t get my point, please re-read my response to your misguided statement.

  5. Parmartha says:

    Shantam,
    All is okay.
    The era of innocence is always available, every moment, every minute. If you tap into it in yourself it will protect you from past, future, and oddly enough, also the present itself.

    • shantam prem says:

      Parmartha,
      Anyone who has tapped the era of innocence, won´t feel hesitant to say, “King is naked.” Anyway, I also presume, different people have different ideas about everything, including innocence.

      Just few minutes ago, before opening the sannyasnews, I was thinking, anyone who has to trust the dead masters can learn much from Muslims. They have no photo, no video, no statue, not a single imaginary of the real but a book, and still their trust for M is unwavering. This is Innocence!

      P.S:
      Barry very long book readers will say, “It is not innocence but ignorance.”

      • satyadeva says:

        Shantam yet again displays his ‘religious credentials’ – of the mind-numbing, spirit-crushing, ultra-conventional kind.

        There’s innocence, ie the real deal; there’s the ‘faux innocence’ of imposed stupidity; and there’s self-created, self-imposed stupidity.

        Guess which one(s) belong(s) to you, Shantam…

        P.S:
        Prize: One-way ticket to Mecca if you guess right….

      • Arpana says:

        Muslims don’t act that way out of innocence. They are trained to from birth, with a lot of beatings involved.

  6. frank says:

    I think that what I have to say is not too off-topic.

    Just glancing through the articles at Oshonews, I see a review of John Hogue`s latest offering:
    ‘Trump for President: Astrological Predictions’. Apparently, an “Excellent read with easy-to-understand astrology that informs the reader as to the astrological pros and cons of a Trump Presidential campaign and even a possible Trump Presidency. He (Hogue) shows us a man with both the potential for greatness if he can be honest with himself or one who could march right into a nasty and potentially nuclear blow-up, if he allows his blind spots to rule over him.
    I especially enjoyed John picking out Trump’s “astrological twin” (not identical but similar enough) in Richard Wagner.” (etc. etc.).

    Why did Osho bother to read all those books – the whole canon of East and West? If he wanted to understand the psyche of his future disciples he could have just read tabloid astrology columns!

    Why are presumably intelligent people who will be the first to criticise “the mind” sliding back into this astro-predictive retard-mind world?

    Is this the sort of mentality that thinks that if Sai Baba enters Uranus it is good news for spiritual humanity? It looks like it.

    I would like to take the opportunity of also reminding people that Nostradumus himself mentioned John Hogue in two little known quatrains in the original medieval Latin:

    “Veni vidi, sooner or laterus, definitlius maybius
    Blancus robus Hogus rogus bogus hocus pocus takus pissus
    Et scamus cum ad hoc ad lib taurus excrementus
    Et takus no-mindus suckerus per mugus et gagnus denarius.

    Dodgus geezus Iannus Hogus rogus continuus
    Cum absolutus completus bolloccium scrivat
    Idiotum nuagerus et sanniasus nuttus purchasus biblius
    Et swallowus crapus untilus taurus ad domicilus returnunt.”

    • Arpana says:

      OH YES IT IS, Francis!!!

    • Tan says:

      Frank boy,
      Your question has been the question of the Sannyas World. Even Osho couldn’t answer it, that’s why he was on the gas, I guess.

      And let me praise you: your Medieval Latin is perfect. Definitely you are an Eton boy’. XXX

      • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

        Could you, or would you mind to share what you mean herewith, Tan: “Your question has been the question of the Sannyas World”? As I don´t get it.

        Madhu

        • Tan says:

          Madhu,
          Frank boy’s question: “why are presumably intelligent people who will be the first to criticise “the mind” sliding back into this Astro-predictive retard-mind world?”

          Well, Madhu, talking about sliding back, I’ve seen it many and many times, very bright people – Osho’s lover, meditative people, etc. – turning around and becoming Muslims or Jehovah’s Witnesses or born-again Christians. And I’m always wondering why? How? I could never understand it!

          If you can add something, please, do! XXX

          • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

            Yes, Tan, I could add a lot; to start with the present moment sitting with my ´Mac Apple´, telling you that a Sam Lucas appeared as a spying-on-the-chat ´entity logo visible with his logo-pic – to get me a stomach ache (at least we can realise who is spying, at least, isn´t it?). Sam, with his US-Trump-like red face…

            Well – those obnoxious sect-people were not the only ones I have been harassed here in Munich by over the last decades…

            And one should not underestimate their criminal tendencies of fanatic preachings and actions. As also financial possibilities to do so.

            It had not been what I was up to, to add, as you did add these people already – but, helas, I happened to see him spying just now!

            I could add those Sannyas Friends I lost when they made up their own schools and don´t mention Osho any more in their advertising/cv. Or those who found their Satsang families around other Teachers. Or switching to Tibetan Teachers. And so on.

            (My list is longer, but better to stop here).

            However, I couldn´t say that I am wondering so much any more; there have been (are ever again) painful phases to go through my delusions and dropping expectations still a ´biggie’.

            Glad that you asked; would be good stuff for an extra thread, wouldn´t it?

            With love,

            Madhu

            P.S:
            ´Home is, where the Heart is´…
            And the song for today, Parmartha, reminded us of:
            “Just one ordinary man” – also very beautiful, isn´t it?

            • Arpana says:

              Now I understand why you are so sympathetic to Shantam.

              You are both in permanent mourning for a life that is long gone and will never return; and you both have really rigid and limited ideas of how things should be; are surrounded by people who don’t live by your rules, and won’t even attempt to do so, thereby preventing you enjoying the wonderful ideal life you once did.

              And in your and Shantam’s minds, they know what the rules are to the letter, know they have no right to exercise personal agency, as only you and Shantam have that right.

            • Tan says:

              Yes, Madhu, “just an ordinary man”. You know what? We are blessed that this ordinary man is still loved by us. Still alive! This ‘aliveness’ of love is real life, is like home.

              Thanks for adding something so beautiful with the help of Big P. XX

          • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

            P.S. (for Tan):
            The ´sliders´that affected me the most are those in the course of time who switched to the Scientology Church or firms and associations (businesses) of this religious and criminal fanatic cult.

    • Parmartha says:

      John Hogue as someone like you very likely knows, Frank, was a sannyasin. On his website he does not acknowledge Osho, though he nicks stuff about ‘the new man’, etc.

      Frankly, it is amazing to me that Osho virtually said “Yes” to everyone who wanted to wear the orange…and the mala…Was this a mistake?!

      I find people who do not acknowledge Osho despicable.

      • Arpana says:

        I suggest he gave Sannyas to anyone to ensure that those who really were his people could never avoid having to deal with those who were not; even if they spent their entire lives dealing entirely with those who had Sannyas names.

        To ensure those of his people who did work on themselves, did meditate, could not avoid dealing with those who didn’t.(Part of Zorba the Buddha).

        • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

          Before ´digital age´ took over, Arpana, with all its blessings and all its curses for communication and exchange, it has been quite easy for me to nod in acceptance to your here declared suggestions about inner individual work etc.

          Realizing to what extent communication or discussion fields became a playground for ´trolls´ makes it very difficult, for me at least, to stay with some ‘if…then’ laws of a simple causal ´karma-ideology´ when facing the anonymously operating mob mind in action on an everyday basis.

          In former times, I took it for granted, for example, that if I am repelled by something or someone, that that has something to do with unresolved patterns of mine, and would point at some ´inner work´ on the ´to do (to resolve) list´.

          Seeing how easy it happens to serve as a target for completely asymmetric terror and harassment on an everyday basis by people you never met before or had some persona exchange with erased this confidence pretty much completely.

          Your every now and then verbal attacks and fantasies, targeting me as a person, remind me of that.

          Madhu

          • Arpana says:

            You are self-deceiving as well. I said very little to you for a long time until I was no longer prepared to put up with your periodic nonsense.

            You are not a victim here exclusively. You are as prone to villainy as anyone. You behave here as you do because there is something wrong with you because of you, not because of us, as we all do.

            • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

              “You are not a victim here exclusively.”
              I didn´t say that and didn t mean that, Arpana.

              “You behave here as you do because there is something wrong with you because of you.”
              There´s nothing wrong with me, Arpana.

              “I was no longer prepared to put up with your periodic nonsense.”

              Wondering how your daily life looks like, Arpana, and wondering what is your understanding of ´responding´? In a chat.

              Madhu

          • frank says:

            Madhu, you say:
            “In former times, I took it for granted, for example, that if I am repelled by something or someone, that that has something to do with unresolved patterns of mine, and would point at some ´inner work´ on the ´to do (to resolve) list´.

            Seeing how easy it happens to serve as a target for completely asymmetric terror and harassment on an everyday basis by people you never met before or had some persona exchange with erased this confidence pretty much completely.”

            Sounds to me that you took the idea that when you are “repelled by something or someone, that that has something to do with unresolved patterns of mine” too literally. And maybe the internet is liberating you from your misunderstanding.

            The idea you describe is a psychological idea that can be pursued for some insight in some circumstances, but if you treat it as a literal truth which is true at all times in all places you get lost in an absurdity.

            Extreme examples could be if you are stuck in a lift with a psychopath or you live in a murderous dictatorship or you encounter whack-jobs online!

            Another one is “you create your own reality” – again, a useful enough idea in some circumstances, for taking responsibility or for generating energy to create something, but if you take it as a literal truth, true in all circumstances, you end up like these idiot new-agers who say that even children born with AIDS and bombed and maimed in Syria etc. have ‘created their own reality.’

            Here`s an interesting thing that James Hillman said about taking things literally:
            “An ego’s specific characteristic, and its specific function, is to represent the literal view: it takes itself and its view for real. Literalism is an ego’s viewpoint; it means being locked into an ego. Ego psychology results from being trapped by the ego into its perspective: the other characters on the stage are merely characteristics, projections of mine. Only I am literally real.”

            • Arpana says:

              Great post, Frank.

              We get stuck with ‘baggage’ because of our own unconscious expectations of others, but also, all that baggage that accumulates because we’ve been dumped on by others, because of their unconscious expectations.

              However, there is a place between, which we might refer to as the drawing-lines-in-the-sand place, which is setting boundaries for ourselves, and also setting boundaries regarding others.

              Shantam, for example, is incapable of setting boundaries for himself, so others have to do it for him.

            • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

              Frank,
              Thanks for putting stuff together here more the kind of ´Eton-way´.

              As you addressed me, I´d like to tell you that you are not speaking to a New Age groupie. However, the ways ´therapriests´ (as someone here called it rightly) of our own section have been acting have been as abusive as elsewhere, the role players yet imagining themselves to have gone widely beyond inducing guilt and shame, and re-traumatising this way.

              ´Human condition´…and that´s another chapter, every now and then having had topics and threads here too.

              Then you write: “Sounds to me that you took the idea that when you are “repelled by something or someone, that that has something to do with unresolved patterns of mine” too literally”.

              I would say, the way to go beyond something goes via first applying it deeply and acknowledging where and what and maybe (if possible) why you get ´hooked´ rather than surpassing steps beforehand and replacing steps just by ´another´ ideology. Experienced the latter happening in some hype around adapted adavaitean proclamations like “nothing ever happens” – sometimes adapted by people who wanted to legitimate their psychopathic actions.

              You know, I loved the pretty short while when the Master still worked individually on the therapists in the Ashram, as well as on everybody else (late 70s); later, that was very rare and exceptional.

              See – your James Hillman quote, is in the first flash really convincing, but when I let that sink a little deeper and deeper again, it’s for me more a ´black-and-white´ stuff to reduce the utter complexity in which we are all inter-connected with each other, not knowing pretty much always ´a thing´.

              You then say: “And maybe the internet is liberating you from your misunderstanding.”
              I would say the internet itself is nothing but a tool, yet getting in the course of technical improvement sometimes the delusionary flavours of being close to ´organic´ (natural) appearances. Developments I feel more fatal than others I know or come across. Liberation in a human way is not in its gift-box, I presume.

              But thank you, Frank, to have good wishes and reminding me in your unique way of recreation spots I might know.

              Madhu

              • frank says:

                Madhu, you say:
                “I would say, the way to go beyond something , goes via first applying it deeply and acknowledging , where and what and may be ( if possible) – why , you get ´hooked´ rather then surpassing steps beforehand and replacing steps just by ´another´ ideology.”

                Its just that sometimes,the idea in question is true and sometimes not.
                No need to “go beyond” anything.
                No ideology .
                Just discriminating intelligence.

                As my old Latin master at Eton, “Hannibal” Hodgkinson used to say whilst whacking me over the back of the head with a copy of the Cambridge Latin Grammar:
                “Dear boy,what is the point of having a brain, if you don`t use it?”

                “I don`t know, sir”

                • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

                  Thanks, Frank,

                  Better at this point to rest my case here; otherwise, not only the danger to get stuck in a ´lift…but in a ´chat.

                  Thanks again,

                  Madhu

              • frank says:

                Cheers.
                I would say that ‘non-seriousness’ as prescribed by Osho, as well as just being about cracking jokes, watching the world slipping on a banana skin and having a laugh is probably very close to ‘non-literalness’.

                • Arpana says:

                  Then there are all the individuals who are serious about being non-serious.

                • Tan says:

                  Frank boy, I can understand better the meaning of your Medieval Latin than your contemporary English.

                  Just I would like to add that the ‘non-seriousness’ Osho was talking about goes beyond cracking a joke or being a clown. You can look and act as a very serious person and take life in a very non-serious way…just as a joke…Anyway, love your posts! XXX

                • Arpana says:

                  Tan, can you guess which one is Frank in his Eton uniform?

                • Tan says:

                  The little chap, Arps?

                • Arpana says:

                  @ Tan.
                  Yep. Just before he was a prefect.

        • Arpana says:

          I posted without a picture becase I am immoral, and I knew you would disapprove, by the way.

      • shantam prem says:

        “I find people who do not acknowledge Osho despicable.”

        It simply means they have moved on. In such situations, more dignified is to revert to the maiden name or get new name from the new headmaster!

      • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

        “Frankly it is amazing to me that Osho virtually said “Yes” to everyone who wanted to wear the orange…and the mala….was this a mistake?! I find people who do not acknowledge Osho despicable.”

        Yes, very amazing, Parmartha, and – NO MISTAKE. But such a challenging ´model´, so to say, for a most profound teaching what ‘unconditional’ and also ‘TRUST’ is all about.
        And even if I join you in your last line, I would say it’s also my (our?) challenge to cross this border of judging (and disappointments or disapproval); and that´s much of the everyday challenges in my emotional body.

        There are so many levels then to become aware of, and I gave some expression to that today, sticking to some ´standard’, so to say, it sometimes creates pain also or a not wanted solitude, as I am a social being like anybody else.

        But life´s course is a strong teacher, moment to moment. Nobody´s an island and separation hurts.

        The Challenge – on another other side, and a very precise one – manifesting these days and months facing the refugees theme with some war zones or other and getting aware of this in everyday life, if you are not dump and dull.

        Feeling the pain and the uprootedness of so many, and also the rage of those who are gripped by fear of some loss of some standard whatsoever.

        Evident it is that the ways we have been able to meet Osho or living ‘our thing´ (sorry, don’t find better words just now) have been such an utter Luxury and it is difficult (for me) to adapt that into everyday life as easily as it was for me for quite a long time.

        A long gap happening by now. Not always open to it – the gratefulness – for some few Inner ´tools´ to get going.

        And as living quite a hermit´s life, I am also grateful to write into this SN-Chat. For me, a small communion.

        Madhu

  7. prem martyn says:

    Dearest All,
    Am currently in the place discussed muchly in these halloweb pages – India! I prefer to report later on as to what, where and why, but in the meantime do enjoy and be happy with what isn’t…ie.me, as I shall be very busy arse-sitting for research purposes into the nature of cushioned consciousness and unable to discuss the nature of mindfulsitness for a wee while.

    Love and frolicks to you all,

    M

  8. Lokesh says:

    Pm says, “On his website he does not acknowledge Osho, though he nicks stuff about ‘the new man’, etc.”

    Then again, Osho himself nicked stuff from those who went before about ‘the new man’ and did not mention his sources for such ideas. Seems to be par for the course.

    Pm also says, “Frankly, it is amazing to me that Osho virtually said “Yes” to everyone who wanted to wear the orange…and the mala…Was this a mistake?!”

    I do not find anything amazing about this at all. Numbers were important to Osho in terms of recruiting. The more the merrier. Why he went down this path is up for debate. Somehow it was important to what he viewed as his work with people or else why would he have done what he did?. Rarely did he reject anyone. I only witnessed this happen once, and it was easy to understand.

    Pm asks, “was this a mistake?”
    I suppose that is something that could only receive a coherent and concise response were the question to be framed in a smaller context. It is a very general question in terms of adding tens of thousands of recruits in an indiscriminate way. Good for spreading the word, I suppose, but bound to be many people whose presence on the scene was detrimental to it, as time was to show.

    One could bring into question whether or not Osho was a bad judge of character, going by some of the clowns he put into power in terms of running his commune.

    On the other hand, it could be seen as him holding a world view wherein he understood that ultimately it was all good. Who knows? I would have to be hard up for something to do to really go into such things in depth, and I am not in such a position.

    • Arpana says:

      You don’t see any difference between Osho and John Hogue?

    • shantam prem says:

      Sunday Thought from a honorary Priest:

      One should not judge the tree from its fruits….

      • frank says:

        What is Hogue stealing from Osho anyway? The idea of the `new man`? Check Freddie Nietzsche, Thomas Paine and as far back as the apostle Paul if you want some historical background on that.

        Trying to use Nostradamus to back up an idiosyncratic viewpoint? There’s a long tradition of that ever since Nozza put his pen down and even Nostradamus himself lifted his ideas wholesale from various sources.

        The idea of ‘nicking ideas’ gets you into an infinite regress.

        Maybe running Osho meds. and doing a guru trip without mentioning Osho is dodgy.

        But ideas…who possesses them?
        That`s a meditation in itself.

        • Lokesh says:

          Frank says, quite rightly, “The idea of the `new man`? Check Freddie Nietzsche, Thomas Paine and as far back as the apostle Paul if you want some historical background on that.”

          But those were not the ones who inspired Osho’s ideas as much as Gurdjieff. Osho covered most religious ideas but fundamental to Osho’s teaching, if you can call it that, was Gurudjieff’s ‘Work’.

          I reckon ‘The Commentaries’ by Maurice Nicholl were the set of books Osho returned to many times to find inspiration. What he touched little on was the fact these teachings are in fact based in esoteric Christianity. Osho was not too hot on JC, but what came out of JC’s teachings had a very strong impact on Osho and as a result he based a lot of his fundamental ideas upon this, such as the new man, the fourth way etc.

          Unless you are familiar with these books you will not understand why I say this, and even if familiar with the books you will in turn not understand them unless you put into practice what they teach, something which one can easily spend a lifetime practising.

      • Lokesh says:

        Shantam declares, “One should not judge the tree from its fruits.”

        Something which might well be regarded as good advice as far as he is concerned. In general terms the question that arises is, why not? That is, if one needs to make a judgement for one reason or another. Which in turn might not be a bad idea when a controversial Indian guru, now deceased, is involved.

        • shantam prem says:

          I hope, Lokesh, you understood the sarcastic punch.

          Trees are judged from their fruits, masters from their disciples. I think in 21st century, people want to see the effects and not what is written in the pamphlets.

          Who will buy this logic other than the family of the fanatics: “We cannot produce killers because Islam means peace and Pakistan means the land of the pure”?

  9. shantam prem says:

    Just one to make something clear, which is very basic to what I write:
    I am not the one who wants to dip the feet in the same river twice nor I am mourning the life which is gone and not returning, as one Pune 1-time disciple has written.

    My effort is simply to find the way how to perform Reverse Vasectomy at 17, Koregaon Park, Pune.

    Those who think Osho is everywhere can get some idea from him!

  10. shantam prem says:

    Because of this article, I am reliving the memories of my one and the only Jabalpur stay for 21 days silence meditation at Swami Anand Vijay’s commune. It is situated at the outskirts of the city surrounded by small mountains untouched by the civilization. I am sure Osho must have spent many, many days walking there.

    I cannot remember fully whether it was few months before Osho leaving the body or few months after, with my German girlfriend of that time, we wanted to do 21 days silence where it is not too expensive and has Osho energy.

    I think Jabalpur centre will be still no. 1 to offer pure Osho at quite reasonable rate.

    http://www.oshoamritdham.com

  11. shantam prem says:

    There is not a single western country, prosperous, rich, educated and scientific-tempered country where life and time of Jesus is not discussed almost on daily basis. Most of the Osho disciples come from such countries. They frown with contempt when someone discusses life and time of Osho, as for them, it is being in the past, and life is here and now.

    I wonder, in their here and now, what kind of quality of life has been created. Matter of the fact is Osho gave a chance to create better religious system than the previous ones. He fuelled the discontentment towards the others and established on the way His own church, churchless church. Post-death of the Charismatic one, whereas others created their civilization, sannyasins simply let it fall. “Let go” has been taken literally.

    Can someone tell from the title photo of 1969 that the man and the master is visualizing a place of His own where entry fee per day will be 1800 Rupees (around 20 Pounds)
    The above thought is based on the news link. ‘In The Footsteps Of Judas’ will be shown on BBC 1 at 9am on Friday, March 25.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3492865/I-feel-bit-sorry-Judas-says-leading-bishop-Cleric-argues-traitor-s-betrayal-complicated-Bible-suggests.html#ixzz42yxjy7IC

    • satyadeva says:

      “Religious system”, “church”? What nonsense, Shantam!

      For me, I’m afraid you’ve misunderstood Osho and as a result, all these efforts you’re trying to make towards recreating a Sannyas that suits you are fundamentally flawed.

      Just like other mediocrities who couldn’t wait to make an organised religion out of their dead masters’ life and teachings. Well-meaning, yes – but hopelessly out-of-their depth.

      • shantam prem says:

        If people like Satyadeva had understood Osho, I don’t think there was a need to go on jumping like a frog from this to that one – anyone who calls himself/herself a bit superior. If doctors write no prescription, one can go on changing the pulse readers.

        Moreover, Satyadeva, do you have any sense of propriety? There are people who have spent their whole life around Osho in an unwavering way. You should serve them tea and coffee first to understand the broader picture.

        In my opinion, you are one of those fickle-minded who impose their mind on Osho.

        • Arpana says:

          If people like Shantam had understood Osho, I don’t think there was a need to go on jumping like a frog from this to that – calling himself superior.

          Moreover, Shantam, do you have any sense of propriety? There are people like Satyadeva who have spent their whole life around Osho in an unwavering way. You should serve him tea and coffee first to understand the broader picture.

          In my opinion, Shantam, you are one of those fickle-minded who impose your mind on Osho.

        • satyadeva says:

          I would think, Shantam, that “propriety”, as you call it, would suggest that you take good note of the fact that you have never received the slightest shred of support for your ‘big ideas’ here at SN. But you’re just too bone-headed, too self-righteously thick to care, of course (or perhaps even to notice).

          As I’ve said before, you’re damn fortunate you’ve been allowed to perpetrate your personal propaganda for so long here, as elsewhere you’d have been cut off long ago.

          As for the rest, it doesn’t require any sort of ‘Sannyas Official Insider Certificate’ to realise you are, as I said, way out of your depth in any discussion on what should or shouldn’t happen in Sannyas, including at the Pune ashram. Because almost all your posts resonate with the desperate stupidity of the self-deluded, of one who’s attempting to compensate for the mess he’s made of his life by, essentially, offloading the responsibility on to others.

          Sorry, Shantam, but you’re just not fit for purpose – unless that purpose includes setting up yet another useless religion for the terminally mediocre.

      • frank says:

        Shantam, before you rejoin battle with the cowardly junkie psychoanalyst (why would you do that?), listen up a bit.

        Very few people, intelligent educated people in the UK for example, discuss Jesus Christ on a daily basis. You will find that even the Daily Mail gives more column inches to Kim Kardashian’s ass than JC’s crucifixion.

        Dear boy, you have described how you were brought up as a Sikh and then took sannyas, thus effectively swapping, as you describe it, one religion for another without any break, not even a day in-between.

        Here`s a thought:
        As an experiment, how about spending at least one day in your life as a human being, without a label, on this large piece of spinning rock hurtling through space – don’t know why, don’t know what for – and all those explanations of other people, enlightened or whatever, really don`t matter, for today?

        What have you got to lose?

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