Latest Swiss film re Sheela and Shiva Lambasted

GURU – Bhagwan, His former Secretary, His former Bodyguard: (and the stupidity of the human mind.)
A Review of the movie by Ramoda.

I had a chance this week to see the film GURU – Bhagwan, His Secretary & His Bodyguard.

Two former sannyasins Shiva (Huge Milne) and a former secretary of Osho during the early 80’s Sheela (Sheela Silverman) have teamed up with a group of Swiss documentary film makers who put this project together.

In short it seems to be a combination of two biographies – Sheela and Shiva – who decades after their involvement with Osho can still not let go; and need to justify their leaving by blaming Osho and his community, all for the public record. Over the last 20 years we have seen many attempts by Sheela to clear her name, and clearly she has not come to grips with her jail time for amongst other crimes, attempted murder – at least this she does not try to pin this on Osho – and in Milne’s case for the months he spent in a psychiatric hospital (not long after leaving the Oregon commune).

It was certainly one of the most boring movies I have seen in a long time. I would suggest to watch an Osho Talk instead; it will leave you in a much better space.

Shiva who talks with a voice as if he is on antidepressants, clearly never understood the point that Osho’s work is an ongoing process of change. He just could not get the point that “Poona 1” ended and that Osho like a real Zen master put his people to work in a new phase – “carrying water from the well, chopping wood” – the contemporary version of this was perhaps to build a city in the desert of Oregon – who knows. The film shows Shiva who dropped out of everything early and then created his own mini Poona 1 world – just this time creating himself in the role of a guru and healer with special abilities. Most of the last 25 years since he left the movement he has been busy with justifying why he left.

Sheela , like Milne has also recreated a community, this time unfortunately with mentally challenged adults, who are misused in this film as a background scenario presenting Sheela as the caring mom. Now she has surrounded herself with people who cannot question her, or don’t even understand how they are misused in this film for Sheela’s personal politics. It is pathetic to see that the institution for these handicapped people is filled with Pune 1 ‘Bhagwan’ photos and how Sheela explains that she is living Osho’s vision in this ‘commune’. Can it get more pathetic?

Unless the viewer is a sannyasin or has personal experience and some kind of involvement in the events at the time of this film, the film is without context– a wasted opportunity which has cost, according to the estimates, about 2-3 million US-Dollar – most of the money came from Swiss government film project funds and Swiss TV.

Two lost people who have completely missed the point of Osho, and cannot resist on the blame game, putting their poison out to the world. The political and personal accusations are not even worth mentioning here, nothing new, just the same old wine in a new bottle – an expensive film production.

The only redeeming feature is the archive footage of Osho, of joyful sannyasins and some footage from events and locations of the journey which seem to make up half of the film. Probably Sheela convinced the film makers to make this film about ‘her Bhagwan’ as she still calls him, frozen in the past. Shiva talks only about ‘Rajneesh’. Two people in a ‘Ground Hog Day’ time loop – a 25 year loop!.

The misunderstandings, minds and personalities of these two people put on display here confirm anything Osho ever said about Sheela and Shiva.

Osho said:
‘Shiva had been my bodyguard for years. Then he dropped sannyas. Then he started speaking, against me. He wrote articles in German magazines – Stern and other magazines – against me. But if he comes back and wants to be my bodyguard he will be again by my side. And I know perfectly well what he has done. That does not matter at all, it is his doing; he should be worried and concerned about it. As far as I am concerned, I have remained exactly the same. He can come again and be my bodyguard. Nobody else will accept him as a bodyguard, because that is the easiest place from which to kill a man…

… He has to take responsibility for whatsoever he is doing, whatsoever he has done; he has to take the whole responsibility for it. But it is none of my business to interfere in his doings. If he feels it right to write against me, perfectly good; if he feels happy to write against me, perfectly good. But for ten years he was sitting by my side. He must have a tremendously idiotic mind – in ten years he could not see anything wrong. It took ten years for him, and now, after dropping sannyas, he becomes suddenly articulate. So what was he doing for ten years – sleeping?

No, it is not against me that he is writing those articles. It is just to console himself that what he has done by dropping sannyas is right, because the man was wrong. He has to prove it to himself that “the man was wrong, that’s why I have dropped sannyas.” Otherwise it will continuously be a wound – that I loved him so much, trusted him so much, so unconditionally, and this is what he has done to me. I can understand his difficult situation. So writing against me, he is simply trying to cover up the wound that he has inflicted upon himself.’

– Osho (From Unconsciousness to Consciousness #6)

And of Sheela Osho said:

‘…the problem was that Sheela was never inclined towards spirituality, towards any inner growth, towards meditation…from the very beginning. If she would have been inclined, then I would have immediately detected the change. She was never a meditator, she never meditated. She has other qualities: she was very pragmatic, very practical, and very strong.

Sheela seems to be really insane. In fact all power-oriented people are a little insane. A sane person would not like to enslave anybody. Just today I have come to know that Sheela and her group tried even to poison my physician. They wanted to poison other persons who were close to me, for the simple reason that nobody should be close to me except Sheela…

… I was simply sad – sad that a woman from whom we expect a more loving heart, should think in terms of killing people. I was simply sad – sad for Sheela, that she must be in a mess. The very idea is sickening. I am not angry at her, because I can understand these things can happen to power-oriented people.

..Sheela never wanted anybody to be close to me in any way. She never wanted anybody even to talk to me, so that I don’t know what is going on. Three persons she was trying to kill. The people before whom she discussed the plan are here. One was my physician, one was my dentist, one was my caretaker.

First, my caretaker was given poison while she was visiting Sheela’s house and took a cup of tea – but nobody suspected. We thought some illness has happened. She was immediately taken to the hospital. She remained few days in the hospital, got well, and nobody even thought, nobody could even conceive that.

Then my physician one day was taking coffee at Sheela’s house and he came…. But because he is a physician, with the best qualifications from England, he could feel that there was some poison in the coffee. But everybody laughed at the idea that, “You must be mad! Who will put poison in your coffee and for what?”

He remained sick for few days and while he was sick, he was here in the medical clinic and Sheela’s accomplice in all these crimes was Puja, who was a trained nurse and knew everything about medicine, drugs, poisons. She injected him again with a poison. Since then he has been feeling weak, for no reason at all.

And third time, just in the last celebration – here in a meeting – a woman who was the third in Sheela’s group, Shanti B., she injected him while he was sitting in the meeting. And he immediately thought that something has been pushed. He took over his robe and called people to see: there was blood and something has been injected.

He was taken to the clinic, but he refused to go to this clinic, because now he was afraid. If these people can do it in a public meeting where fifteen to seventeen thousand people were present, what they can do in the medical clinic? And Puja was a dominant figure in the medical corporation. So he insisted to go to Bend. He was taken to Bend. His wife, Hasya, was with him there. …Today, one sannyasin has come on his own and he said, “I am an eye witness. In front of me, Shanti B. has injected Devaraj, but I was keeping silent: if they can kill Osho’s physician so easily – I am a poor sannyasin – they can kill me any time.”

– Osho (The Last Testament)

Here,15 years after Osho spoke these words … his timeless review of this film.

As for the film producers — a project like this with public funding could have been a fantastic opportunity to present to this messed up world a new vision of meditation and living on this planet with reverence for life — instead they have chosen to go the usual political way – the controversy – the usual political opposition and sensationally pushed up film presentation. Trapped in the usual mind pattern they are probably convinced they have done a great job.

It looks like we will all still have to wait a bit longer before a film is made actually presenting Osho’s vision through his own understanding rather than through countless misunderstandings of unenlightened people.

Until then, luckily we all can enjoy Osho’s books and talks in video and audio format. Just by looking for these quotes from Osho I found out that the complete OSHO Library with all his English talks is now available for free on www.osho.com/library.
Love,
Ramoda

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117 Responses to Latest Swiss film re Sheela and Shiva Lambasted

  1. Amano says:

    I have seen trailor on you tube, looks like very intresting movie.
    i like all sort of documentaries made about tosho. they are very helpful to know what went right and what went wrong in pune 1, ranch or in pune 2
    i want sannyasins to give sheela and shiva one more chance to make come back to osho . sheela and shiva are getting old , it is time for us to forgive them and welcome them and let them also have same luxury of living like we do around osho . if osho was in body , he would have sure forgive them and welcome them , so why not us?
    go and see this movie if you have not been to ranch, it will give you gilmplses of life style there… i am glad that in the movie osho’s role is played by osho himself.

  2. Heraclitus says:

    Yeah, the review is okay, but neither the review or the film answers the hundred dollar question.
    How come that Sheela who Osho admits was not into meditation at all, etc or Shiva who was clearly not that well psychologically even in Pune one, had positions within his organisation of such power??
    Either like the Tory party in the UK, he just let leadership “emerge” or he made some pretty bad choices in any normal approach to “judgement of character”.
    The only answer I ever heard that might make a grain of sense was that he had their own growth in mind….. but clearly as by their present behaviours they are both clearly still not right in the head he was mistaken.
    Also with Sheela she was really part of Osho’s extended family, and like in many organisations such stupid appointments sometimes are made just on “connections’, not on merit and proven sanity in stressful situations.

  3. Yakaru says:

    Thanks for the review, Ramoda.

  4. Alok john says:

    Excellent review, Ramoda. Thanks for finding the quotes.

    Heraclitus, my impression in Sheela and Milne just got to the top because they pushed hardest. I think Osho just allowed it out of his trust in existence.

  5. Heraclitus says:

    Thanks for the reply Alok but I would then ask why Osho was proactive in asking Laxmi to leave her position, having done much better as a Secretary than Sheela over a previous 10 year period.
    Also “Trust in Existence’? if that was the case, is such trust justified? Not at all I am afraid. It can still be infallibly argued that some ordinairy sannyasins “suffered” because of Sheela’s rule between 81 and 85, including a few who were told they had aids and did not. A terrible and criminal behaviour.

  6. shantam prem says:

    Sheela and Milne just got to the top because they pushed hardest….and after that everything will remain fine for ever, because in God(existance)we trust.
    In the countries and counties elections people may try hardest to reach to the top But in Vatican and at the BLack house, people reach at the top of clergy not because they try hardest but through existance(God)´s wish.
    I beleieve one thing we all have Mastered from being with Osho is the art of justifying everything, whether it is Sheela; the bitch or the underdogs who could be top dogs.

  7. shantam prem says:

    I think it was not a very difficult decision for the Swiss govt. to finance this documentry for the sake of “Our Sheela” and to throw some more mud on Osho.
    Even debt ridden Greek govt. will not miss the chance if someone brings such kind of project.

    But from sannyas community where every one is a better pop psychologist than the other, a deeper discussion and deeper insights are required.
    One Judas is Ok when disciples are below hundred.
    There must be Villans behind the villans, when organisation was in thousands and the lust to be the closest hair of His beard was immensely temptting.

  8. shantam prem says:

    In the coming days, i will go in the Swiss Cinema to watch this movie and also to know the response of the other movie goers as for this particular movie, people will not spend 17 Sfr for the time pass, they must be having some opinion about Osho; the man you just cannot ignore, hate or love Him, but form an opinion.
    Keeping in mind this idea, i phoned to the mother of my child there and to ask whether she knows about this Movie, “Bhagwan, secretary and the body guard”, and what is her opinion.
    She said,” she has seen the posters and read the review in the papers and was surprised, ” people STILL care about Him.”

  9. Alok john says:

    Heraclitus, of course I dunno for sure, but maybe he asked Laxmi to leave because it was easier for her that way rather than being pushed out by Sheela.

    As to trust in existence, it was always central to him. Do you know this story about non judgement
    http://www.skywriting.net/inspirational/stories/judgement-wisdom.html

    I think we should be thankful that the movement survived the Ranch without a Waco like shoot out with many deaths.

  10. Yakaru says:

    Heraclitus,
    Who knows why Osho did it like that. What’s it matter? It’s a valid question, of course, but the only person who could answer it is sadly long gone. And he was a zen master, not a politician. His aim was not to set up a well run organisation for babysitting seekers.

    He never demanded that people hurt themselves or anyone else in following Sheela. And he never promised anything except an encounter with our inner hell. Anyone who was expecting something else (or wants to complain about what they got) from sannyas should have thought more carefully before taking it.

  11. asiTO says:

    So much noise about Sheela? Why should we just not think a bit abt OSHO? What she says in the documentary is that all false?
    all fake?
    that cant be … something of that could we not agree with ? no we cant !!! because we cant think of OSHO being a HUMAN !
    and when he isnt a human how can he be like what Sheela says !! thats when we all agree SHEELA is fake cunning etc etc !

    No she isnt … she knew OSHO more than you and me .. because she knew he is a perfect HUMAN just like u and me and he can also do things which are not right but perfectly ok to him !
    See OSHO with the broader perspective , with your hearts open for him then will u understand this documentary / Sheela and OSHO

  12. Shantam Prem says:

    And he was a zen master, not a politician…

    Can we say also, Osho was a Sufi Master or simply Just a MASTER.
    Why this hanger of being a Zen Master?
    Just because He was speaking on these people at the end of His life.

    I think we should be thankful that the movement survived the Ranch without a Waco like shoot out with many deaths.

    Waco like shoot outs were impossible with Osho. He was not a Bigot.
    Everyday, one or two cases are in the papers, when some jilted lover kills the other, mostly the woman.
    Thousands of people droped their partners for the new one, without prior notice in the small compound of the ashram and what the jilted lovers were doing, Walking with the batch of In Silence.

    ANy kind of violence seems to have no place in the multidimension vision of His work.

  13. martyn says:

    if it was re-named CIRCUS…. the story of a School for Clowns would that re-labelling increase our ability to develop ‘insight’ .

    And would we think it then important enough for our lives ?

  14. Kranti says:

    Thanks Ramoda..Excellent review.. That osho quote about both those people did really complete the review..

    Yes.. We never know why Osho did or didnt do things.. Just today i was listening to His ‘ Suchness of things’ where He is saying how he didnt care whether he is famous or notorious and He is just himself.. He was Master at work.. and so loving and compassionate also.. he would not have looked at these people in the way we look at them.. again what we do is all retrospective..which is always easier

    But with my own little mind i cant possibly understand how on earth 2 people who got close to Osho can go horribly wrong and still hanging on to past after quarter of a century.. even if they had been taken along the tide at that time , 25 years is a pretty damn long time for not doing the introspection..

    After listening to Him for nearly 17 years i still get stunned with the freshness of what He says.. He is a Master , Poet , friend and what not , combined into one

    Thank you Osho..Thank you… Life would have been so different without the understanding you gave .

    It just doesnt make sense to lead life without the , de-programming, awareness and understanding Osho gave

    With Love
    Kranti

  15. Kranti says:

    I was thinking about what Amano said ” i want sannyasins to give sheela and shiva one more chance to make come back to osho … ”

    What exactly we mean by that ? An acceptance of them into mainstream community of Osho? Who can forgive? You never know ….

    May be thats what they NEED.. But do they want it?.. If so they wouldnt be making films like this..

  16. Satya Deva says:

    What’s the problem with the idea that a Master, in his/her dealings with the external world, is fallible, that he/she can make mistakes?

    That’s a major – perhaps the major? – lesson of the demise of the Ranch, isn’t it?

    It’s a very large ‘leap of faith’ to accept that it’s really ‘ok’, that as ‘Existence allowed it to happen’, it therefore has to be ‘good’.

    After all, it wasn’t planned and accepted as an enormous ‘spiritual peak’, the birth of a new concept of being etc. – unlike the Crucixion of Jesus, for example – it came as a surprise, a huge, shattering shock, including, it would seem, to Osho himself (to the extent that he was capable of being ‘shatteringly shocked’, of course).

    I find it near impossible to take on board that it was anything other than a large step backwards, in that it alienated many who might otherwise have come into the fold (as it were) and made many sannyasins almost ‘ashamed’ of revealing their association with Osho to the wider world.

    A sort of ‘crucifixion from within’ even – but without the – to be extremely facetious here – the ‘pr value’ of the legal murder of 2000 years ago.

  17. Alok john says:

    Satya Deva wrote :

    “It’s a very large ‘leap of faith’ to accept that it’s really ‘ok’, that as ‘Existence allowed it to happen’, it therefore has to be ‘good’.”

    But this is what He said in discourse many times. Do you think he was insincere when he said it?

    Actually many people left after the Ranch debacle who had never been interested in meditation. I thought the Ranch debacle purified the movement for the future.

  18. Anand says:

    So the Swiss filmmaker Mr. Beat chose with the help of the Swiss government and the Swiss film fonds to make a movie about Osho and chose the two biggest idiots and culprits of the sannyas movement Sheela and Shiva as its main actors. Sheela a criminal and Shiva a betrayer. Remember that also the Swiss government did not allow Osho to enter its territory for some speech?

    So Mr. Beat, thank you for producing some more not needed trash for the screen. And why are sannyasins even bother and going to the premiere?
    When do we get over the stink Ma Sheela has produced?

  19. martyn says:

    Osho liked jumping off 120ft bridges into swollen rivers as a child .His best friend died ….he survived..Quod est demonstrandum……So far so goooooooooooooooodddddddd……

  20. Kranti says:

    Yes Anand..we shouldnt be even worried.. But i think it is good to know how these guys are still around making documentaries like this..it also puts in to perspective how human beings can go on for years without realizing anything.. inspite of the oppurtunitiues presented to them to live with a biddha.. i am no way trying to be holier than thou here..Just expressing myself..

    I like the way Osho responded to that question on how he was not aware that his room was bugged..He was human and like Alok said he kept saying this repeatedly ..

  21. Alok john says:

    Satya Deva wrote of the Ranch debacle “it alienated many who might otherwise have come into the fold (as it were) and made many sannyasins almost ‘ashamed’ of revealing their association with Osho to the wider world.”

    This is true. But in my opinion there were some other outcomes, even worse that were avoided. In my opinion the energies were such that the following outcomes were possible :
    1. Sheela and her gang murdering Osho, Amrito, Vivek, Hasya and god knows who else.
    2. Sheela creating a new religion of Rajneeshism with herself as leader and high priests Teertha, Somendra, Poonam etc.
    3. A major shoot out between the US army and National Guard and the Ranch sannyasins with scores or hundreds of deaths.

    Just my opinion, but I think many sannyasins underestimate the darkness of the energies at the Ranch. Just my opinion again, but I think through Osho’s intelligence, at least these three outcomes were avoided.

  22. martyn says:

    Sheela should do the path of love…no really ..and a couple of dentalpuncture sessions with Devateeth..that should help her see herself (steady on the n02 devateeth)….and Shiva…he has eyes that follow you round the room like one of those comedy horror paintings ….Obviously Osh had a very advanced sense of humour…very.. i’m still laughing at the punchline….

    Sheela whats the sequel? A fly on the wall documentary of tea -time, hot water bottles and the staring window at the Sheela retirement home for the be-fuddled .
    Sheelas blog:
    currently listening to Dean Martin singing:
    ‘ If i ruled the world ‘.

  23. sw trilok says:

    Lets not forget Sheela worked with OSHO for 15 years and may be few of us who write comments here have even not seen OSHO !
    So i feel its unfair to write of this Movie

  24. Satya Deva says:

    Alok john wrote:

    Satya Deva :

    “It’s a very large ‘leap of faith’ to accept that it’s really ‘ok’, that as ‘Existence allowed it to happen’, it therefore has to be ‘good’.”

    (Alok):
    But this is what He said in discourse many times. Do you think he was insincere when he said it?

    Satya Deva:
    Not “insincere”, no. What else to say, how else to view it as an enlightened Master, totally surrendered to whatever is?!

    But also, how else to respond, except to ‘take the positives’ (as even football managers are wont to say after a bad result)?!

    One recalls the famous song ‘Always look on the bright side of life’, by enlightened comedy master, Eric Idle…

    Just a matter of coping with setbacks, ‘disaster’ even – only one way to go, surely?

    Alok John:
    Actually many people left after the Ranch debacle who had never been interested in meditation. I thought the Ranch debacle purified the movement for the future.

    Satya Deva:
    But it lost many potential new people as well, surely? Set back Osho’s appeal to new generations, perhaps by decades?
    A huge opportunity, a marvellous example to the world – sabotaged from within. By poor judgment from the Master – and immaturity from the disciples.

    And how about now? How is this “purified…movement” getting on?
    Is ‘sannyas’ thriving? Are more and more people discovering ‘the world of Osho’?
    Are young people as thirsty for his truth as we were, decades ago?

    Maybe it is…maybe they are – in certain areas, eg Russia, Nepal (and elsewhere?)…
    But I still believe a potentially great opportunity to influence the West was lost.

    Mind you, I reckon if Osho’s truth is of value, then it will live on and spread anyway, in ‘its own time’, because many people have come across it and accepted it, so it has firm roots in the human psyche.

    Ready to flower…when…?

    Whether it will ever be enough to offset any ‘coming world catastrophe’ is another matter though….

    Anyway, I guess it’s our business to get on with our own lives/predicaments, rather than be over-concerned about such matters.

    So yes, let’s ‘take the positives’ and look on the bright side….

  25. shantam prem says:

    The sweet revenge against Sheela, Reagan or any one else who betrayed the movement was to create again the world of meditation, music, laughter etc.; and Osho did this.
    Unwillingly He came to Pune as no other country or the Indian states was ready to accomodate His vision, His presence.
    Osho did what he could do with His best and compassionate intentions.
    During the last months, He was choosing also the sub titels of His Hindi books.
    One was-i have sowen the seeds. Take care, they don´t remain as seeds.

    Somehow it is a pity of Osho´s work that everyone who became the chair person of the movement started behaving like a little guru on their own right.
    When the bus driver thinks himself as the engineer of the bus, accident happens sooner or later.
    Has this not happened with Osho time and again?

  26. Sadhu says:

    yes, Shantam…you are right…this way or that way seems every body harmong Osho’ work…what to do???? what a beautiful master and stupid we are….

  27. Kranti says:

    Yes Alok..things could have been lot worse..i never thought from that angle..

    But what Satya Deva says also is true.. I used to think if Oregan had not happened and Osho had lived in the nineties say for another ten years when planet earth started becoming a global village , He would have put the foundation for even massive changes.. But His physical presence was major pre requisite

    ” And how about now? How is this “purified…movement” getting on?… ”

    I am always too uncomfortable to think about the idea that Osho actually was speaking to a group of His people ONLY..He always said reading his books and listening to his talks will never be the same as living with him when he was in body.. So once he was gone it was always going to be just some filtered down impact..Few individuals can here and there gain insights into living and awareness and enlightenment and there can not be a movement as such UNLESS there is a organized religion which will be dead anyway…So in a way Osho is past in His pure form..There is no way it can be re created..

  28. Alok john says:

    Satya Deva:
    “But it lost many potential new people as well, surely? Set back Osho’s appeal to new generations, perhaps by decades?
    And how about now? How is this “purified…movement” getting on?
    Is ’sannyas’ thriving? Are more and more people discovering ‘the world of Osho’?
    Are young people as thirsty for his truth as we were, decades ago?

    Maybe it is…maybe they are – in certain areas, eg Russia, Nepal (and elsewhere?)…
    But I still believe a potentially great opportunity to influence the West was lost.

    Mind you, I reckon if Osho’s truth is of value, then it will live on and spread anyway, in ‘its own time’, because many people have come across it and accepted it, so it has firm roots in the human psyche.

    Ready to flower…when…?
    Whether it will ever be enough to offset any ‘coming world catastrophe’ is another matter though….”

    Kranti : ” I used to think if Oregan had not happened and Osho had lived in the nineties say for another ten years when planet earth started becoming a global village , He would have put the foundation for even massive changes.. ”

    Alok : I just think the world will have to catch up with Osho, and it will take fifty or a hundred years at least before he is widely accepted; whether Osho had lived another ten or twenty years or not. And perhaps we will have to wait until the USA and the EU ceases to dominate the planet. It was the USA that murdered Osho. It is in the USA and the EU that the publicity against him is the most sophisticated.

    Sometimes (wonder of the internet!) i go to sites from Iran or the Taliban. And you should see how they regard the USA and the EU. They talk about the USA and the EU like we Brits talk about the Nazis. And I guess there is something in it. So maybe Osho cannot be widely accepted until the economic and cultural defeat of the USA and the EU.

  29. Satya Deva says:

    Alok :
    I just think the world will have to catch up with Osho, and it will take fifty or a hundred years at least before he is widely accepted; whether Osho had lived another ten or twenty years or not. And perhaps we will have to wait until the USA and the EU ceases to dominate the planet. It was the USA that murdered Osho. It is in the USA and the EU that the publicity against him is the most sophisticated.

    Sometimes (wonder of the internet!) i go to sites from Iran or the Taliban. And you should see how they regard the USA and the EU. They talk about the USA and the EU like we Brits talk about the Nazis. And I guess there is something in it. So maybe Osho cannot be widely accepted until the economic and cultural defeat of the USA and the EU.

    Satya Deva:
    Maybe, Alok…

    Yet looking at the alternatives – China, Iran, SE Asia etc., ‘the Taliban’ (& co.) (!!) – hardly fills one with confidence , does it?

    And I don’t see an Osho-inspired ‘spiritual flowering’ happening in a depressed West either….

  30. Satya Deva says:

    Anyway, as I said above, such musings and speculation is not really our concern.

    Never mind about ‘The future of sannyas – will it survive? Read on for a Special Report by worldwide team of investigative reporters’ -

    As my old history teacher used to say, “In the long run, we’re all dead”…

    So, to paraphrase the Sex Pistols:
    Never mind the movement, what about my own prospects?!!

  31. Alok john says:

    Satya Deva “Yet looking at the alternatives – China, Iran, SE Asia etc., ‘the Taliban’ (& co.) (!!) – hardly fills one with confidence , does it?

    And I don’t see an Osho-inspired ’spiritual flowering’ happening in a depressed West either….”

    Yes, I agree. But maybe out of the conflict between China, Iran, SE Asia etc. and the West, over several decades, something new will arise that will be open to Osho.

  32. Kranti says:

    Alok : I just think the world will have to catch up with Osho….

    Satya Deva: As my old history teacher used to say, “In the long run, we’re all dead”…” Thats a good one.. it hit me like anything

    But i have a slightly different view here ..

    Although ultimately the growth happens on a individual level , inspite of what we see as reactions by US andEeurope i feel these arethe places Osho will catch up first.. Morever the weakening of christianity will also facilitate this..

    i am not able to see eastern countries with heavy past have the maturity in place..

    In india.. even now Osho will be accepted.. No problem..But see the changes they put Osho thru..India will accept Osho as another God not as a zen master thereby missing the point completely.. they will glorify him and add him as the next avatar of Rama..

    Its not new to India.. we have done it with everyone in the past .. People just go Thiruvannmalai but they just dont see Ramana there ..they just see their gods… the entire mountain if full of religious crap..the dirtiest in the world..

    Inspite of what people say about devotion, to me the best way to look at Osho is more as zen master which will allow a openess towards him.. If He is converted in to god like status He will be missed..

    Infact i always fear so mcuh that when the religiously tight countries ( fundamentalist ) actually start reading Osho in more wide spread way there will be unhealthy reactions..they will always see and quote Osho out of context and react..

  33. Kranti says:

    ” In the long run, we’re all dead”…”

    Better we discuss & understand whatever we want now itself…

  34. Kranti says:

    One more thing which struck me is this new age advaita and satsang movement.. i see that as beautiful thing , as a sort of ground work that is being laid.. large number of western peiople are getting used to sitting with the master , communion and all

    I was listening to an adyashanti discourse today..One person who raised a question told how he felt a sense of let go and peace at the satsang in the same wau he used to feel at a church.. the key here is let go and people are understanding that thru all these neo-advaita ..i dont see that in india …a Ramesh Balsekar will be quickly forgotten as an author.. the way they did with JK.. I see so many Osho people describe JK as dry and somewhat inferior master inspite of seeing Osho regard him so highly

  35. shantam prem says:

    Sadhu you have pointed rightly from my prospective too,” what a beautiful master and stupid we are….”

    Average human being or average sannyasins stupidity is not such a bad thing, but when the leadership, not the leaves but the branches are full with such selfish and stupid fellows; who are bashing in the glory of being in the presence of living master therefore automatically are entitled to be in a certain extra class; not answerable to anyone, no accountabilty, no check and balances because they know what Osho wanted.

    So the result is the organisation which could have turned global has become a net work of some kiosk owners.
    Oh Yes…Kiosk owners from different countries.

  36. shantam prem says:

    …a Ramesh Balsekar will be quickly forgotten as an author.. the way they did with JK..

    These people will be forgotten because they never tried to produce disciples.
    Tragic comedy of life happens when someone has half dozen children and their spouses and grand children and still nobody has the time to give water to this person´s grave.

    Tragic comedy is when you sell yourself as in the line of Buddha, Jesus, Mahavira, Nanak, Kabir etc. and trustworhty sales team sells you as a most profilic author.

    Even when an author gets a royality of million dollers per month, still author is an author.
    Osho has become a Jaffery Archor or John Grishm of his branch of literature.

  37. shantam prem says:

    “But I still believe a potentially great opportunity to influence the West was lost.

    Mind you, I reckon if Osho’s truth is of value, then it will live on and spread anyway, in ‘its own time’, because many people have come across it and accepted it, so it has firm roots in the human psyche.” Alok John

    We don´t need some world catastophy, man made or divine; just takeTWO gentlelmen away from the steering wheel and the Motor will be on the highway.

    Osho is too big a brand to be treated as ABC & Bros. kind of business.
    Board of directors are required to carry forward the legacy and spread the wings of Osho, The first spiritual movement with miminum belief system and 100% free from any superstition.
    Time should not put the dust of forgetfullness that Osho wanted His work to be taken care by the group of His people.
    And He has reminded many times that His people are not those who are sitting at that time in His presence but who will come to Him also when He is no more in the body.
    Kranti is as much part of Osho as keerti and so on.
    What a joy to bow down before somone who is ordinary like everyone else BUT AWAKE.

  38. Alok john says:

    Kranti : “In india.. even now Osho will be accepted.. No problem..But see the changes they put Osho thru..India will accept Osho as another God not as a zen master thereby missing the point completely..”

    I take your point about India, but what about the educated young people in India, millions of people now with a good college education. Aren’t many semi-Westernised? Maybe they or their children will understand Osho.

    Also I do not think US and EU are Christian. In one of Osho’s books he says the prevalent religion is based on Freud, Darwin and Marx; that is to say the religion of the West is atheism. And this could be a big barrier to accepting Osho.

  39. Lokesh says:

    Thanks to Ramoda for a well thought out and well-written review. As it is. it held little in the way of surprises. The whole scenario is a rewrite of the same old same old. As is such nonsense about forgiving Sheela and Shiva. … a really load of bollocks.
    I met Sheela a couple of times back in Poona One. She did not leave a particularly strong impression upon me. I thought at the time that she had probably been spoiled as a child. These days one only needs to study her interviews on You Tube for a few minutes to ascertain that the woman is not playing with a full pack. She is so obviously nuts it can be quite fascinating to watch her speak, or at least I’ve found it so.
    Shiva was a different cup of tea altogether. I knew him mainly because I was one of the few Scots in the Ashram in the early days, although we were not friends. A friend visited my home yesterday who was friends with Shiva until he left the ranch. Some time after Shiva wrote his book my friend contacted him and Shiva confessed that he regretted what he’s done in regards allowing that book to be published. From what I can gather Shiva has suffered a lot for his actions.
    I don’t believe that Shiva or Sheela participated in the making of this film for any real reason other than making money. They are about the last people on earth who are going to set the record straight, even if they wished to do so, as it is obvious that they are both very troubled individuals.
    What will forever remain a mystery is why Osho let two people like that come so close to him. For all his claims of knowing everything that was happening in his commune there definitely seems to be a case of a serious lack of character judgement on his part as far as those two were concerned, I mean really basic stuff. This is not something to be taken lightly as it brings into question what was happening in Osho’s personal life when Sheela in particular was let loose to wreak the damage she perpetrated. Did he, for some mysterious reason, loose interest in the ranch? Was he so out of it that he did not care? Was he showing us by example that even the most enlightened of people can allow very unlightened things to take place around him or her because ultimately none of it really matters? Or did he simply loose the plot? The string of quetions that arise from the incredible story that Osho left behind are endless. One thing is for sure: even though its twenty years since Osho left the building he is still managing to stir up controversy.
    What I now find myself asking is this. If the scene in Poona is generating a lot of money why don’t some of that there inner circle channel some of that cash into making a beautiful movie about Osho, instead of simply pointing fingers at the losers who are actually doing something on that level. A good movie about Osho would come as a breath of fresh air into our smoke-filled world. The time is now and the place is here. If you really believe the old boy left a dream that is worthwhile living how about spending a few rupees on making a good movie about it and by doing so potentially touch the lives of millions of cinema goers.
    One of my close friends is a brilliant film director and just the other day we were talking about…

  40. Kranti says:

    Alok – ” I take your point about India, but what about the educated young people in India, millions of people now with a good college education. Aren’t many semi-Westernised? Maybe they or their children will understand Osho.”

    The major thing that is influencing that educated young people of India is economic affluence.. these young guys are experiencing the possibilities of economically being well off and they are chasing their material dreams..

    somewhere Osho said this material affluence is a pre requesite for a society to move into spritual seeking..So in that sense i personally feel indians will take time ..may be few generations down the line.. the children of these people like you said..

    ” that is to say the religion of the West is atheism. ”

    Again i have heard him say a athiest has a more open mind than a theist.. the point i am making is as a combination of a heavy past and also potential economic affluence, i am not able to see Indians as a society seeking spritual goals for few generations .. I may be wrong in my view if we broaden the view & include the other things like environmental issues , information explosion influencing the way people approach life ..

  41. Kranti says:

    Thanks a lot Lokesh for more first hand account of these people

    It makes a huge difference to what we talk about..

    ” Did he, for some mysterious reason, loose interest in the ranch? ”

    Was His ‘ period of silence’ a contributor to this ? Was he some way or other disconnected during that time?

    ” If the scene in Poona is generating a lot of money why don’t some of that there inner circle channel some of that cash into making a beautiful movie about Osho, instead of simply pointing fingers at the losers who are actually doing something on that level. ”

    Thats is very very interesting point Lokesh.. they did make a documentary on the resort.. But it will be great to see them taking initiative to make a Osho movie.. having said that will that go against their approach of not projecting Osho.. i dont think they should be that restrictive.. Those inner circle guys are the best bet when it comes to making a Osho movie.. If the movie and facts about Osho need to be accurate..

    Not sure what is the status of the movie in the making by Lakshen Sucameli.. Sometime back i wrote to him via facebook and he sounded very optimistic..

  42. Alok john says:

    I have spent two or three hundred hours over the past several years researching the movie industry, thinking about an Osho biopic, that is to say not a documentary but a movie with an actor playing Osho’s life.

    The industry is really complicated and competitive. In the UK about 300 features (full length films) are made annually but only a handful each year are distributed through major cinema chains or through the television. The danger is you’d spend lots of money on a film and you are left with a DVD that if you are lucky is shown at an obscure film festival to a few dozen people.

    Lakshen’s movie seems to be on hold; his website has not been updated so I guess he has not raised the money for the shoot.

    A movie about someone’s life is called a biopic (like a biography for a book). On one discussion board frequented by Hollywood film writers I was told there is one rule about biopics “Don’t do them–they rarely work.”
    So you see there is a lot to think about.

    Lokesh, I rather guess Pune is just covering its costs—I have heard it looks a little tatty.

    I am still thinking about it. I could probably write the screenplay–all films start with the screenplay. The problem is what do you do with the screenplay once it is completed. There are hundreds of people in London with screenplays sitting in their desk draws which will never be made into films.

  43. Alok john says:

    I have often thought he went into silence for those years to give Sheela “enough rope to hang herself”; this being the only way to get rid of her (and some others) to ensure the long term survival of the movement.

  44. Kranti says:

    Thanks Alok for the info..

    If Osho had achieved what he wanted to with Sheela without impact to the Oregan commune it would have been great.. The fact that He agreed to create the commune in US and his unwillingness to come back to Pune ( as i understand ) He must have been too serious about the commune and undertstanding how he let it go is beyond my intelligence..

  45. martyn says:

    The awards for the SannyasNews Oscar nominations are now being received
    .
    The SannyasNews Oscar Nominations are:

    For the Most Balanced Comment

    For the most Unbalanced irrational piece of Nonsense, and how dare you suggest that.

    For the most User Friendly Insightful Advaita Post (this side of liberation).

    For the most Provocative Offensive Statement ever heard outside of a Therapy group.

    For the most unpaid for free Advice , Gratis and for nothing

    For the Most Devotional and Inclusive Opinion in a Documentary.

    For the Weirdest and most Compulsive obsessive rant outside of a meeting with a meditation Centre Director

    For Best Lala Lala Lala Music Soundtrack

    For Just being Yourself

    For Just Being Someone else.

    For being a Scottish Guru’s Guard without a Pension

    For Having Anything you say used in evidence against You by other posters.

    For Being a Sannyassin Imposter

    For Doing His Masters Work

    For Building The Master Race

    For Betting on the Master Race.

    Best Vegetarian Buffet

    For Best Nightly Rates at a retirement home in Switzerland

    Best Hurt Feelings that cannot be Therapeutically removed.

    For not Being

    For Being too much.

    For Avoiding Living the Truth.

    send your nominations to Thera-Pay Pal.com

  46. Anand says:

    Kranti: the Ranch was near a situation to be stormed by US troops. So Osho diffused the situation in leaving (and got arrested). The Ranch were over 10,000 sannyasins with malas in red in the middle of Christian Fundamentalist Redneck country. So Osho ‘let it go’ for the reason to save our lives and got poisoned instead. Afterwards no country of the so-called ‘Free World’ allowed Osho to even enter with the exception of Greece, who kicked him out and Uruguay.

  47. Anand says:

    Kranti: Osho never wanted a movie to be made about himself.

  48. Alok john says:

    Anand wrote “…Osho never wanted a movie to be made about himself.”

    I have never heard this before. Are you sure about this, Anand? If so I will just drop the idea.

  49. martyn says:

    For
    Its my Favourite Master so why did it go Tits Up , something must be done about it – Community Film Project..

  50. martyn says:

    For the Special Jury Independent Film category:

    Its not Surprising that happened, but You Wouldn’t Listen after all I said to you before, during and after, Silent Motion Picture.

  51. shantam prem says:

    Great and hilarious idea Martin.
    Atleast at the Plaza party at the head quarters, some stand up comedian can dare to announce these awards.
    He will be awarded Entry ban sticker for a season.

    The master, who joked about everybody; two three main fingers of His hands suddenly, shrink when jokes are to the point.

  52. shantam prem says:

    I feel, Anand, you have summaraised the end of the ranch chapter in a superb paragraph-
    the Ranch was near a situation to be stormed by US troops. So Osho diffused the situation in leaving (and got arrested). The Ranch were over 10,000 sannyasins with malas in red in the middle of Christian Fundamentalist Redneck country. So Osho ‘let it go’ for the reason to save our lives and got poisoned instead. Afterwards no country of the so-called ‘Free World’ allowed Osho to even enter with the exception of Greece, who kicked him out and Uruguay.

    It is also important to add that The mountain state of Himachal Pardesh, India, which gave refuge to Dalai Lama, did not allow India´s best brain in spirituality, Osho to settle down there and create a small commune which will add doller power to the poor state much required international tourism.
    Osho´ s messangers were meeting each and everybody important; but fuck the bloody narrow mindedness; Osho has to leave his temprorary abode at a hotel, on the way to Manali.

  53. Lokesh says:

    SP says, So Osho ‘let it go’ for the reason to save our lives and got poisoned instead.

    If you believe that you are capable of believing anything.

  54. shantam prem says:

    An oldie but a goodie!!!

    What Religion is Your Bra
    A man walked into the ladies department of a Macy’s and shyly walked up to the woman behind the counter and said, “I’d like to buy a bra for my wife.”
    “What type of bra?” asked the clerk.
    “Type?” inquires the man, “There’s more than one type?”
    “Look around,” said the saleslady, as she showed a sea of bras in every shape, size, color and material imaginable.

    “Actually, even with all of this variety, there are really only four types of bras to choose.”
    Relieved, the man asked about the types. The saleslady replied:
    “There are the Catholic, the Salvation Army, the Presbyterian, and the Baptist types. Which one would you prefer?”

    Now totally befuddled, the man asked about the differences between them.
    The Saleslady responded, “It is all really quite simple… ”

    The Catholic type supports the masses.
    The Salvation Army type lifts the fallen,
    The Presbyterian type keeps them staunch and upright, and
    The Baptist makes mountains out of mole hills.

  55. Dhanyam says:

    Dear Friends,

    In regards to a forthcoming movie about the life of Osho, which is being produced by Swami Rajesh, please read the May/June issue of the Viha Connection, pages 12/13.

    Love,

    Dhanyam

  56. martyn says:

    nice one shantam….keep going in that direction ….after all…. that we say and do..
    it remains
    O-SHO- Business for ya….

    ‘There’s no Business like Osho Business
    Like No Business I know……
    Ever..y…thing about is ap..pealing
    When you are stea-ling the Showwww’

    (with reference to Rodgers and Hammerstein musical film)

  57. Swami Detective says:

    I just released a block-buster e-motion pic called “Bla bla bla, save the world, save America, save Osho from the saviours, and make the biggest uninformed sweeping generalisations.”

    Lokesh, you wonder about Osho letting Sheela and Shiva and other pSychos close to him. You yourself used to sit at the back of discourse, and laughed when Osho blasted the little huddle of front-rowers. He said they were close to him cause they needed him the most.

    What about the quote from Ramoda….He (Shiva) can come again and be my bodyguard. Nobody else will accept him as a bodyguard, because that is the easiest place from which to kill a man…

    What is your take on that one? I read it as the bodyguard killing the Master scenario. Osho here demonstrates a clear awareness that Shiva is not only a nutcase, but also potentially capable of killing him. Yet still Osho would welcome him back as his bodyguard. Argue all you like, but one basic fact is that Osho was capable of identifying psychopaths, and allowing them to get close to him. You can postulate why from that basic standpoint.

    Alok John you take the Chinese story about the old man and his horse completely out of context. The story points to non-judgement about that which you do not know, not creating false beliefs. It also is partly to do with accepting situations that are outside your responsibility and control. What do you think would have happened if in the story Sheela came along and said to the old man, I am going to break your son’s legs and steal your horse?

    Kranti, it is time for a quote bashing competition. Here is a quote from Osho that has been (randomly) deleted from an Osho book called Life’s Mysteries.

    IS THERE A POSSIBILITY THAT THE DISCIPLE’S LOVE FOR THE MASTER WILL NOT BE THE LAST BARRIER IF LOVE AND AWARENESS CAN GROW TOGETHER?

    ….Zorba is love; Buddha is awareness. It is easier to grow one, but is far more juicy to grow both together. And if both together can be grown, then the master will not be the last barrier, because in love and awareness you will become one with the master.

    On the path of awareness the master is a barrier. That’s why Buddha said, “If you meet me on the path, cut my head immediately.” That is the answer on the path of awareness, because in Buddha’s teaching there is no place for love.

    There have been schools of love like the Sufis. A Sufi will not agree with this. He will say, “If the master meets you on the way, become one with him.” But if you are understanding my approach… it is a little bit complex, because I am trying that your love and your awareness both go hand in hand….The world has known both kinds of people — the lovers and the meditators — but the world has never tried both together. This synthesis will bring a new kind of man. For this kind of searcher, the master is not a barrier at all. [End quote]

    There is some basic merit in the arguments about devotion becoming extreme, yet the same can be applied to zen. On one hand you can become overly obsessed with the Master, on the other hand you can become overly obsessed with the individual. So whatever path you are on, there are always challenges and dangers.

    You may subscribe to the notion that Osho migrated from devotional style to zen style. Do you also consider that he shifted from Zorba the Buddha to something else? In the above quote Osho clearly aligns his approach with an integration of love (which I also link to devotion) and awareness. Those that argue that they are protecting Osho from the devotional dangers are actually throwing out half of Osho’s integrated approach. Who are you to do this?

    The compilation of books that I have looked at seeks to take out all the aspects of Osho that related to love/devotion/surrender, among many other issues. The thing is, as aligned with the above quote, in Osho’s discourses these aspects are interwoven so many times with aspects of awareness/Buddhism/zen. So what did the compilers do? They simply chopped out the (irrelevant) words and sentences and paragraphs. This destroys the essence of Osho. Then, people like Kranti read the completely distorted texts, and come here on SannyasNews and denounce those people that try and express and balanced view of the whole of Osho. If Kranti has read the dissected text of Osho for 17 years, then he will believe deeply that this is Osho’s position. That is why he has not changed his position even a fraction since he has been here on SannyasNews.

    This dissection of Osho creates a conflict in which people that would normally subscribe to a more Sufi style will be in one camp, and the ones that would normally subscribe to a more Buddhism/zen style will be in the other camp. This creates a religious divide the same as in Sunni and Shi’ite Islam.

    At the bottom of the last article I list many quotes simply chopped out of The Book of Wisdom and Life’s Mysteries. It creates a totally biased impression of Osho.

    As Osho says in the above viewpoint, his approach is an integrated one, of love and awareness. The lovers of Osho have been thrown out. Only zen remains. This zen style being pushed at the resort and elsewhere, along with the same thing reflected in the hacking up of Osho’s words, is plain and simple destruction of the essence of Osho. It also creates a split in the Osho movement that gives rise to religious fanaticism and conflict.

  58. Swami Detective says:

    Shiva and Sheela were religious orientated power hungry psychopaths capable of crimes I prefer not to imagine. The Waco siege was mentioned previously. What about Jonestown? So Sheela spent some time in jail and Shiva went off to a psychiatric institution. Still, after so many years have passed, most people would say the pair remain in the least quite disturbed. Though they may be still power obsessed and nuts, at least they are now relatively harmless.

    What about the next bunch of bozos that came to power? Any substance abuse going on there? Any illicit sexual relations? Any propensity to violence? Any lack of judgement, especial in testing circumstances? Any lack of commonsense?

    With the exception of the live-in Pune resort part of the gang, the movement is quite dispersed. If there is a religious extremist mentality like in Waco or Jonestown, yet with a dispersed power base, how does that unfold? Do all the jet-setters fly in on new years eve for a special siege celebration? Does a person who got taken by an advert in some American yoga journal become the new profile of siege victim?

    How’s about you folk stop tryin ta save the planet, stop living in decades old delirium, and have a look at one is going on HERE & NOW!

  59. Swami Detective says:

    How’s business DumbYam?

  60. Kranti says:

    Sw Detective… I accept your point that Osho is about integrated approach.. It is a simple fact that Osho is for wholeness.. Anyone who has read / listened to Osho reasonably will know that.. So the arguement that people misunderstand Osho as one sided is not true..

    Yes… i have a bias towards Zen & love rather than devotion.. At times i feel Zen is too dry a approach.. So the longing for wholness & love is there in everyone.. No one can be loapsided and be healthy..

    The point here is how do we equate devotion to love? I dont sincerely think pune lacks love.. Its just a projection by people who actually want extreme devotion.. people who want to worship Osho more like a GOD although Osho repeatedly said He is just a friend on the path.. Loving a friend is not devotion.. It is just Love..Do we ever describe loving a friend as devotion to the friend , can we worship a friend blindly?

    So with due respect to you i dont necessarily agree that devotion is equal to love..devotion and worshipping are just devotion and worshipping..it is simply putting another ( Osho ) on high pedestal and say we cant be like you.. so we worship you.. thats the same nonsense which Osho had been speaking about all his life.. Thats what people did to Buddha , to Mahavira

    It is complete misunderstanding to look at people who support more Zennish approach as people lacking in Love.. You can kill the buddha even if you love him..not when you are devoted to him and worship him..

    Infact Zen has more emphasis on surrender and dicipelhood than the so called devotion

    Ultimately love is same quality which Osho showed to us.. there cant be diffrent types of love..love tastes the same everywhere..It is a question whether we abide there..like Osho..

    We cant say Osho was devoted to his people..Soto me love is different from devotion..

    To me the guys sitting in Pune are as loving to Osho as anyone else..If we want to see what devotion is then we have examples..

    In my understanding Love is too delicate…It never puts itself infront ..The people who really love Osho work from behind…Devotion goes to the front seat and dances so that everyone can see how devoted it is.

    As far as editing is concerned i too agree with you that it is not right in general..I would like to understand better whats happening and until then i dont want to comment..but even that i want to look at from Love for Osho..not just from a mental conditioning which just reacts ‘ How dare you touch my masters books “..

    Thanks for sharing

  61. shantam prem says:

    Abhay, the detective..
    Do you see any possibilty of Change Happening at the base level in Pune?
    Will this transmission of Jayesh version of Osho will be handed over to His successor and whether this successor will be able to hold the strcuture with iron fist under the Satin gloves?

    Whether the west or the east accepts The Osho approach or not, whether majority of the people use Osho as a snack rather a complete dish; HIS PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN AND UNSPOKEN OBLIGATION NOT TO CENSOR ANY ASPECT INTEGRATED BY HIM PERSONALY.

  62. Lokesh says:

    Swami Detective, you make some very good points.

    After considering it I’ve come to the conclussion that Shiva and Sheela shared something in common: they were useful to Osho. People seem to be digging into the Osho quotes box so here is a relevant one.

    Sheela has done much good, ninety-nine percent good. The whole credit of keeping all the commune together, of creating houses for five thousand people with all the modern facilities, with central airconditioning — I don’t think any city is totally air-conditioned as you are — of giving you the best food possible…. She has done immense good to you, and you should be grateful for it. The credit goes to her. Only one percent she missed, and that seems to be natural to human nature, particularly for people like Sheela.

    Sheela had no spiritual aspirations. Seeing that she has no potential, at least in this life…. And this was my impression on the very first day she entered my room in 1970 — that she was utterly materialistic, but very practical, very pragmatic, strong-willed, could be used in the beginning days of the commune… because the people who are spiritually-oriented are stargazers.

    Mmmmh, food for thought indeed.

  63. shantam prem says:

    Lokesh, after your Punjaji trip, it seems you are driffting back towards sannyas chaos.
    Here is enough fodder for thoughts.
    Can you share some thoughts on the rise and departure of Shri Punja ji.
    I think he was brought into the limelight at the ripe age of 80+ by sannyasins who could not think to live without a “Breathing Master”.

  64. Lokesh says:

    Shantam Prem you ask: Can you share some thoughts on the rise and departure of Shri Punja ji.

    Yes, sure. He was a disarmingly charming man who was not in the least bit interested in gathering a lot of followers round him. A truly liberating force disguised as an 80 year old man.

    Shntam Prem you say: I think he was brought into the limelight at the ripe age of 80+ by sannyasins who could not think to live without a “Breathing Master”.

    Hasn’t anyone told you that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit? you only succeed in making yourself look stupid talking like that.

  65. shantam prem says:

    The sentence took the form of sarcasm, as at the time of writing, i was remebering another thought from UG.
    As after Osho and J krishnamurti´s departure, traffic was getting increased towards UG too and he made it clear does not want to speak with J´s orphans and Osho´s widows.

    Very Sorry, if my remark has hurted you personally.
    But on a human curiosity level still the question is valid that how a man who lives till 80´s a very private person, suddenly starts attracting the people from all around the world.
    and moreover how with in few years, dozens of people became Satsang givers with the titles, ” Energy directly transmitted by His holiness Shri Poona ji.”

    Was it so that Osho was more generous with His talks and Poona ji with the energy?

    and i have read this post before posting and i think there is no sarcasm from my side.

  66. Lokesh says:

    SP. Very Sorry, if my remark has hurted you personally.
    Now you are joking.

    I don’t believe it is true that Poonjaji suddenly began attracting people. He was a very social man and people had been visiting him for some time before sannyasins found out about him.

    SP Was it so that Osho was more generous with His talks and Poona ji with the energy?
    Why compare?

    SP dozens of people became Satsang givers with the titles, ” Energy directly transmitted by His holiness Shri Poona ji.”
    Look who is talking. If anyone is guilty of giving titles on this blog it is you. Recently you were talking some nonsense about Osho being the person who took the master disciple relationship to the west, something which is completely untrue.
    The thing about you, Shantam Prem, is that you are a very easy target. You have this naive Indian perspective that is lovable but at the same time is so full of holes it is sinking in the sea of Maya fast. Blub, blub, blub! Don’t be worried about it, because in the end it is what is the shrine of your heart that counts and even at a distance I can sense you have a kind one. You are blessed indeed.

  67. Alok john says:

    Dhanyam, re film, this is the Rajesh who has a shop in Pune and lives part of the year in London. About 40?

  68. Swami Detective says:

    Kranti you can play semantics as much as you like, but it does not change the situation. Obviously if you are using the term devotion to refer to the negative tendency of excess worship, then yes devotion is not equated with love (or Zorba). If Osho was referring in any particular passage to the negative sense of devotion, then of course it would not be equated with Zorba or love. Devotion is today usually viewed in the negative sense, and so therefore it is more popular to consider oneself a great disciple rather than a great devotee. This does not change what I mean when I refer to devotion as the process of dissolution into the Master. It is the same as the path of love and the path of the Sufis.

    Kranti has a definition of devotion as (negative) worship and putting the Master on a high pedestal. The term Zorba in Zorba the Buddha, the term surrender, and the term love, have the same meaning as described by Osho in the passages deleted from the Osho books. OK so it is love or surrender that has been cut out of the Osho texts. OK so it is Zorba that has been cut off the Osho texts and the Osho movement. Call it what you like, but the systematic deletion process in the two texts chops the Master in half, as per Osho’s own definition of Zorba the Buddha. It actually destroys the Master’s vision. Your negative definition of devotion makes no difference. I will call Keerti, Arun, Neelam, and Swami Rajneesh great lovers who have surrendered to Osho. The terms devotion and devotee have nothing to do with it at all. Many people (including from the Inner-Circle) that are representative of different dimensions of Osho have been forcibly removed. They have been kicked out, and the dimension of Osho that they are aligned with has been deleted from the Osho texts.

    The editing of the texts is not what people think. Have a read! It is firstly removing love or surrender (what I also call devotion). It is, as Osho himself says, removing Zorba (love) from Zorba the Buddha. It has nothing to do with your ideas of love, surrender, devotion, or Zen. It comes directly from Osho’s explanation of Zorba the Buddha (equating Zorba with love), and the fact that the passages relating to love (which Osho uses interchangeably with the term surrender) have been removed from the texts. Of course there are other changes to the text that also completely change the meaning.

    Admittedly I may be charged here with quote bashing. In reading the entire text, I consider the meanings Osho has given to be clear, and that I have here reflected this. OK so I am cleared of the worst grade of quote bashing, but still the charge is there. The reason is that there are probably numerous references to Zorba being this or that. This is likely the case, yet this ironically only reinforces the central argument anyway.

    Osho is clearly a complex and multi-dimensional fellow, and so to make any major changes to anything in his discourses (and his legacy) is an affront to its integrity. In the texts I referred to Osho moves swiftly through so many different issues. If through this process he let’s say addresses the issue of rebelliousness (or perhaps corrupt politicians or priests) on any number of occasions, then I simply cannot delete these references without changing the meaning of the entire passage.

    The references are interwoven in a complex web. It is not like Osho will just give a great spiel on one issue alone. He was a rambling forgetful genius. He had the unique quality of prolific rambling on an array of subjects with who knows what changes in depth of meaning (and style of delivery). It is like a magical bundle of knotted twine that is impossible to unwind. Yes you can point to different parts of the bundle of twine. What else can people do? Who has the intellectual genius to fathom but a small fraction of what Osho offers? Yet this does not mean you can cut off the bits you like with a pair of scissors, and then place these bits together to make a new piece of string. This is what is happening with the type of editing of texts that I have looked at. This destroys the meaning of the message and the integrity of the discourses.

    Kranti you consider the objections to editing to be based on worship or what you negatively refer to as devotion (“how dare you touch…”). So have you considered the objections? Have you looked at the editing? Or, did you simply pass judgement on the objections without being informed? Actually that is what you did, and do you know what that is? It is called blind judgement. You are saying yes to editing and no to the objections without knowing yourself anything about the matter. This means you have a conditioning in favour of the Pune resort and team. This is called devotion (in the negative sense). You are a great devotee of Amrito, ha ha!

    Have you met Keerti or been to the centre in Delhi? Have you met Arun or Rajneesh? How much time have you spent with Amrito, or indeed at the resort? You have strong views based on nothing but reading books that you have no idea how heavily or in what way they are edited. You are the essence of devotion (in the negative sense). The blind worships the blind.

    Of course you say you would like to know more, and do not want to comment. All this after you have made great comment. You are not only a great devotee, but also a great hypocrite.

    Shantam, not for your sake but rather for the sake of those that might start believing you false claims, I am not Abhay. As the great master Hitler knew only too well, if you repeat a lie often enough it shall become the truth. You ask will anything change. Will you?

    Shantam, His people can speak (or not) what ever they like. That makes no difference to who Osho was, and what he said. It does not change the fact the Osho declared there be no spiritual successor and that the Inner-Circle was not a pseudo-guru group, but a practical managerial group.

    Since you are a great lover of Osho (what I call a devotee) you might like to share quotes that highlight love or surrender. That is well and perfectly good. Since Jayesh is a great zen disciple he might like to share quotes that highlight meditation or awareness. (Of course he is actually a great devotee, in the negative sense).

    Trouble is, what has happened is that in discourses that interweave many different perspectives, the particular references to love or surrender (and also death, social theory, and rebelliousness, etc.) have been cut out. When you read through the amended text, it gives the false impression that you are viewing something that is complete and whole, when it is clearly not. Even if a book states clearly that it is a compilation, this false impression is still there.

    The point of a compilation is to provide an impression without losing the essential message. Yet, as explained previously, with Osho’s style of lengthy intertwining complexity, and with the style of ‘compiling’ being one of cutting out particular references as the arise, the essential meaning is lost. It is not like Osho talks only about ‘zen’ one day, and the next day he talks only about ‘devotion’. So many issues are intertwined in any given discourse, such that compilation based strictly on one subject matter (in the way done in the texts I have looked at) gives this subject matter new meaning, and takes away the capacity to give meaning to the subject matter that has been deleted.

    If I read a quote from OshoWorld.com, then I know that it is just a fragment that of course supports their position. If I read a quote from Osho.com then of course I know that it is just a fragment that of course supports their position. (Unless, like most happy fools I am naïve and stupid). In the case of the two texts however, when I read them I start with the assumption that I am reading something that is offering a general and comprehensive perspective of Osho’s understanding, yet what I get is actually an expansion of one perspective (or fragment), at the expense of other perspectives. In this lies the deception, and the injustice to the meaning given by Osho. It changes the meaning! It is the same as the quote bashing that takes place here and all over the place. A fragment of Osho is used to justify your position in an argument. It takes Osho out of context and gives the words a new and slanted meaning.

    The books that have amended Osho’s words in this way should have a warning something like that on cigarette packets. WARNING: Reading is a mental health hazard. It should also say that the view offered is a biased and false impression created by personally motivated systematic deletions (and additions), and does not reflect the views of the so denoted author (Osho), but rather a cult of narrow minded corrupt fascist pseudo-Zen psychopaths.

    Lokesh, it is clear that at certain times Osho’s discourses reflected certain practical realities rather then deep spiritual truths. For example, when The Ranch imploded he took to providing different types of explanations to the various interest groups (to either get rid of them or again try and draw them back into the fold). Imagine Osho back in Pune after all the dramas of The Ranch. The guys image was in tatters. If he wanted to attract some more people he had a little bit of explaining to do I should think (of course not to himself, but to us worldly folk who by the way are not enlightened, but are also not entirely stupid).

    When for example in the early days Osho stopped travelling around India and decided to settle and create a community, then of course he would need people with practical skills to support this. It wouldn’t be much good if everyone wanted to either touch his feet or sit 24/7 in zen. I find it difficult to draw from this that at the end of calculation table when The Ranch imploded, that Sheela came out with a score of 99 percent positive. I consider that maths to be devoid of any common sense.

    It makes me think of Jayesh. I wonder why?

  69. martyn says:

    Editors note:

    There’s is far too much reading and writing going on here….and arithmetic

    however its seems not the same 3 r’s that Osho mentioned….from those Zen monks

    Rove , Rife and Raughter

    and make sure you r filled with lub …for ebrybolly, when yu talk and write about dees Oshpishas tings..

    now bak to dah movie….

  70. Kranti says:

    Ok.. I accept i was sticking to a certain definition and thats not healthy.. What i meant as devotion is only blind worshipping..
    Thats the problem with words

    I thought i didnt comment on editing except accepting that i dont have much info on that.. I also said i dont want to react to that but respond..

    Again i dont understand why you insist on people being close to Arun , Keerthi and Amrito.. even if you live with them for years how can you say you know them well? If thats a pre condition then why Amrito should not have more understanding about Osho.

    To the extent you speak after thorough investigation and having first hand info about things i do admire yor thoughts..

    But you have not understood my core position..running the risk of quote bashing i want to hide behind Osho..

    ” My approach to your growth is basically to make you independent of me. Any kind of dependence is a slavery, and the spiritual dependence is the worst slavery of all.

    I have been making every effort to make you aware of your individuality, your freedom, your absolute capacity to grow without any help from anybody. Your growth is something intrinsic to your being. It does not come from outside; it is not an imposition, it is an unfolding.

    All the meditation techniques that I have given to you are not dependent on me – my presence or absence will not make any difference – they are dependent on you. It is not my presence, but your presence that is needed for them to work.

    It is not my being here but your being here, your being in the present, your being alert and aware that is going to help. ”

    ” A mystery school comes into existence with a master,
    and disappears.
    And that’s how it should be.
    In nature, in existence,
    everything that is real . . .
    A roseflower opens itself in the morning and
    by the evening it is gone”

    So what is being made available the space to make meditations available.. Its up to the people to be present

  71. Kranti says:

    Ok.. I accept i was sticking to a certain definition and thats not healthy.. What i meant as devotion is only blind worshipping..
    Thats the problem with words

    I thought i didnt comment on editing except accepting that i dont have much info on that.. I also said i dont want to react to that but respond..

    Again i dont understand why you insist on people being close to Arun , Keerthi and Amrito.. even if you live with them for years how can you say you know them well? If thats a pre condition then why Amrito should not have more understanding about Osho.

    To the extent you speak after thorough investigation and having first hand info about things i do admire yor thoughts..

    But you have not understood my core position..running the risk of quote bashing i want to hide behind Osho..

    ” My approach to your growth is basically to make you independent of me. Any kind of dependence is a slavery, and the spiritual dependence is the worst slavery of all.

    I have been making every effort to make you aware of your individuality, your freedom, your absolute capacity to grow without any help from anybody. Your growth is something intrinsic to your being. It does not come from outside; it is not an imposition, it is an unfolding.

    All the meditation techniques that I have given to you are not dependent on me – my presence or absence will not make any difference – they are dependent on you. It is not my presence, but your presence that is needed for them to work.

    It is not my being here but your being here, your being in the present, your being alert and aware that is going to help. ”

    ” A mystery school comes into existence with a master,
    and disappears.
    And that’s how it should be.
    In nature, in existence,
    everything that is real . . .
    A roseflower opens itself in the morning and
    by the evening it is gone”

    So what is being made available is the space.. Its up to the people to be present while doing the meditations.. The mystery school like space can not come back..

  72. Kranti says:

    ” Sheela came out with a score of 99 percent positive. I consider that maths to be devoid of any common sense.”

    Sw Detective…So you mean Osho was wrong in his judgemnent.. ? You are mixture of rationality & investigator and pune basher.. I never seen you pouring your heart about something Osho said.. Why dont you for a change express the other part of you ie.. the part which is love with Osho.. It will make us understand you better

    ” It makes me think of Jayesh. I wonder why? ” – I get the point you are trying to make though

  73. martyn says:

    what we need to understand Osho better is the Code Book on Understanding Osho Better.

    (stay with me it gets simpler !)

    Here’s the scene from a Day at the Races when Chico advises Groucho on understanding, instinct and books.


    The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

    Classic.
    Enjoy !

  74. shantam prem says:

    Kranti, you are recycling the quotations promoted and propagated by the Jayesh team.
    When Osho has spoken so much and in such length and in many different contexts; It is one of the most ugly thing to sell what one wants according to the temperament of the person who is on the hot seat.
    Just think by a certain hands of destiny, Jayesh team goes into oblivion, a new set of people come in the picture at the central point.
    The chairman and his team will have the liberty to choose and propagate their version.
    May be they bring the festival days back with relevant quotations, may be they bring back the Mystery school with similar quotations.
    IN MY VIEW; THIS IS DEBAUCHERY.
    At least with Osho, nobody should get the right to turn the dead man according to one´s fancy because this dead man has worked intensively has spoken intensively and has tries his best to make us aware about the games clergy plays.

  75. shantam prem says:

    To write spontaneous comments is quite easy.
    in my heart an article is brewing to write a psychological profile of Sheela and Jayesh, the two chair people of Osho´s work.
    Later has the advantage that he gr abed the whole movement, when Master is no more there to tumble wash His people.
    Just imagine, Osho is in the body, and will Jayesh be still in the hot seat. New talent, new blood with deeper pockets; Jayesh will be send to open a new meditation center at Edmonton.
    In this case scenario, 17, Koregaon Park will be run by someone like the man, who owes Manchester united. Mid forties billion are from the heart, mind oil and boobs rich Russia.
    This would have created the poetic justice.

    Alas.. Jesus has to die at the cross at the tender age of 33 and His chief priests enjoy the thrown till the death melts the glue.
    All in the name of God, Jesus, Osho and meditation!

  76. Kranti says:

    Shantam..i understand your love for Osho..We all are together on that

    But the last two quotes i mentioned are not contexual or partial explanations from Osho.. He always said we have to become more and more independent and mystery school is alive only when the master is in the body.. When the enlighetened master is not there what can be provided is just the space where people can go , meditate and relate to fellow travellers.. How a dynamic mystery school can thrive without the Master in the same way it did when he was alive? You need Him to keep it alive …He kept fine tuning everything.. Infact it is dangerous to try and recreate the mystery school without the Master being there to guide..

    I do understand and appreciate number of your views on balance ..not being zennish etc though..

  77. Lokesh says:

    Swami Det. Thanks for your last post. I enjoyed reading it because you have something worthwhile to say.

  78. Dhanyam says:

    Dear Alok John,

    This Rajesh (aka R.K. Khanna) has worked in the Mumbai film industry for 22 years. You can contact him at swamipremrajesh@rediffmail.com for details on his Osho movie.

    We are now offering subscriptions to the online version of our Viha Connection for $24 per year. You can subscribe at

    http://oshoviha.org/oshohereandnow/index.php?cPath=148&osCsid=2ed1b1ad68c8db5b5b882a02c72d306d

    Love,

    Dhanyam

  79. martyn says:

    there’s been a fire….
    all the books have been destroyed

    the dvds too….

    its amazing….looks like we’ll all have to stop growing then….

    its so scary…. i feel so…..alone ……

  80. Sadhu says:

    Oh Beloved Shantam…you are really a beautful human being with sensative heart…hats off….this is so sweet to read your words, your feelings…yes, some times teaqrs comes in my eyes…oh…thanks dear…thanks…and you are again right when you said ;”Average human being or average sannyasins stupidity is not such a bad thing, but when the leadership, not the leaves but the branches are full with such selfish and stupid fellows…”…yes dear…few people are killing Osho….again??????

  81. martyn says:

    really we need a Bollywood version of the story…..

    Complete with Evil landlords Rogue and Josh and Meera Panneer the hopelessly naive devotee who meditates one day and the next is forced to prostrate herself ( I think thats right) in devotion..

    Her confusion on wondering how to watch her thoughts or open her heart is thrown into doubt when…amongst the asynchronous dancing and garish sets of befuddled devotees hand copying Osho’s last words she is offered a cut price deal to sell her last remaining DVDs to salvage her honour….

    The plot thickens as all sorts of suitors attempt to convince her that the DVD’s need saving… when in fact they are only time wasters and lascivious fools out for their own gain in their cunning stunts to get her to part with them. A chase ensues though Slums, Palaces Meditation centres and the therapy chambers of old Pune.

    When along comes our hero who reminds her in a wet sari waterfall scene of her grandmother’s last dying wishes .To the sound of beating drums.. he calls to her..’I will find you’ as the rest of the mohicans..( sorry wrong Indians) approach their love nest….

    They are swept away in a canoe for some near kissing canoodling….. whereupon she says to our hero….’ Well now you have me is it this you want?’, pointing to her hidden pouch stuffed full of DVD’s and books….
    ‘No.. NO’ ,our glossy haired hero remarks , misunderstanding where her fingers were pointing… ‘Well not yet anyway .. how about later tonight ?’
    She replies , ‘No you hunky monkey, I meant the old Pune 1 DVDs and original tapes….
    Oh yesss stammers our hero …. er Yessss
    of course that’s what you meant…..you stunning gorgeous meditator you….you….

    ‘ Lover’ she offers insinuatingly then continuing.’ Red Hot and waiting to receive your meditational tip .
    Our hero temporarily stunned by her invite looks furtively into her yielding eyes..
    ‘ You are a Sanyassin aren’t you Meera? ‘ hunky monkey asked….
    Why yes of course everything I touch is , touched with my er….
    ‘Devotion ?’.. he quickly enthused, his eyes now wide and whitened by the flash of her …..white …..robe.

    C@pywrite.. Osho Dont Do Tantra Alone,Just Go In Foundation.

  82. shantam prem says:

    Thank you Sadhu for such too much compliment.
    I think most of us are beautiful human beings and after the Aria Dynamic wash by Osho, we have even become envy for the competitor brands.
    Once on Indian Television there was an ad, ” Why her Sari is whiter than mine?
    and the voice says, ” because Lalita ji washes her Sari with Surf excel.”

    But still one can say, Osho wash was not that perfect. it seems it was unable to remove the strains of Power; the power which is greasier than any other element.
    May be it was a grace of the Master that every donkey who was suppose to carry the load for washerman, became a marriage horse within year.
    Look at Sheela, without Osho and most probably with the stealing money from Swiss accounts of ranch, she has become a owner of a old people´s home.
    As a Osho secretary she was giving interviews about esoteric issues of life.

    Our boss Jayesh also feels as he got an extra dose of transmission, because he was paying for Osho´s charter plane and later in Pune was dealing in all property matters; without doubt with utter integrity and honesty.
    Nobody can blame him for financial irregularities, whereas many would have gone into the temptation of few percent here and there in the pockets.

    The fire test was not to buy the properties from rich and sleepy Banglow owners, the test was to be one among the other 20`s.
    These people were hand picked by Osho and were groomed to take care of the expansion of His work, once He leaves the body.
    In spite of all the religious and cultural divides, every civilisation offers due respect to the last wish of the dying, not just through letters but through spirit.
    And here the dying person was not just a daddy,mama grandpa but Master Osho.
    Was Osho asking some immoral acts to do because he lost the sanity of right and wrong. Was this dying Osho was preaching unending hate towards America or Christian begots and therefore these 21 people were justified to ignore His last commandment.

    No, at all

    Osho was asking very simple thing, to meditate together at His Samadhi before taking some decisions about the day to day functioning of His work.
    It shows immense trust of Osho on the capabilities of these people and also on His mastery, that He was not asking majority opinion but amicable decisions.

    why this friendly, peaceful,l united, amicable and cordial atmosphere could not be achieved is a million doller question and every sannyasins present and future has a right to know, WHY, why for Osho´s sake you people could not sit with each other in no mind space.
    These 21 people are answerable to their own consciousness and to their fellow travelers whether they left the collective responsibility out of free will or some one has forced them out of the gate less gate or it was like this situation-
    someone like “Martyn” holds with one hands her hair and with the second opens her jaws and whispers with authority, ” now take this creamy cough syrup down the throat, you bitch.”
    i think more than 95% will run away with silence shame and dejection.

  83. martyn says:

    Shantam,..pssstt u ever lived in a commune? or Osho centre when he was alive?….how do yu know so well how they work…amazing !!!..
    ..you had to pay high price to join…. u had to play with real people…. doing real things….and Indians were banned from doing groups and meditations with westerners…..different strokes for different folks… but hey thats okay sometimes cough mixture leaves salty.experience………u just use the sweet one …yummmm

  84. martyn says:

    shantam you confuse Osho’s sannyassins/ commune/ words with Osho himself.

    One is Non Veg the other is Pure Veg..metaphorically speaking.

    Get used to it /, respond vitally to it and integrate the contradiction… that’s the challenge.
    and no its not a irreedemable eternal problem.
    at least not for me..never was.. i just have a dirty mouth and enjoy it totally when needed.

    guns/ poison /books/ manipulation … so frigging what ?…its a roller coaster always was… go get some of the action honey and live a little wild…

    and it is Sw Prem Martyn or known as fuckface, to my friends and bitches.

    love is insane thats why we need insight and vice versa ( I never liked the word meditation either)

    ttfn

  85. shantam prem says:

    Martyn for reference sake, from 1987 onwards till 2006-2007, i have spend much of my time at 17, koregaon Park; pune.
    For me, India was Pune and Pune was on the roads leading to the ashram.
    you are right-
    you had to pay high price to join…. u had to play with real people…. doing real things…
    High price was in the sense that as an Indian you have to swim against the current and in the process bear the wrath of the family etc. and also to drop the usual perks of business and professional life but as few of Osho Darshan diaries were titled, ” Only losers can win this game” or like ” Dreaming impossible before the breakfast.”
    And the environment has provided the perfect blend of fitness centre kind of meditation techniques, opportunity for tears of gratitude and to play with real people…. doing real things…

    In the statement below Correction is needed

    ….and Indians were banned from doing groups and meditations with westerners…..different strokes for different folks…

    Indians were not allowed to do groups which were not relevant for their cultural conditioning and requirement.
    One cannot give every medicine to every child the way every doc cannot be a gynaecologist.
    In a country where just a week ago, a 23 years old journalist has been killed by her family as she dared to fall in love with a man of lower caste, one cannot expect those groups for Indians where sexual contents were permissible.
    and also the price structure of the groups were of normal European market and Indians income at that time was not compatible.
    Still the atmosphere was free from any kind of class and race distinction, so many love affairs between Indians and western flourished.
    Osho was the programme designer of the whole structure. As a meditation guru, Osho would have half the Indian population as his disciple but He wanted to play with His own vision how so ever unpopular it was at that time.
    And as time has shown, Osho´s India is moving in the direction he visualised in the discourses of 1970´s and before.
    without any will towards His British Doctor and Canadian financier, i will go on protesting for the restoration of that programming Osho himself has chalked about.
    Just meditation is middle class commodity as tasteless Sushi has become the symbol of intellectual superiority.
    And love.. even 12 years old British knows who with her sister of the same age have become the proud mothers.
    Similar girl comes home and tells her mom, ” Today i have seen Martyn´s wiwi.”
    Mother is shocked.
    And girl says further, ” it also reminded me of peanuts.”
    Mother gets relaxed, ” was it so small”, she enquires further.
    “No, it was salty.” girl who knows all about love blushes.

    And world will be a better place, when it embraces Osho, the preacher of love and meditation, east and west, heart and mind, His vision of Zorba the Buddha
    .

  86. Satya Deva says:

    You sound like the usual sex-starved Indian, Shantam!

    Mmmmm…So that’s why you’re so keen on this ashram caper, eh?!

    Ah, now the clouds are parting and I see the light at last…!!

    ‘Celebrations, dancing, hugs, no class or caste distinctions…real people doing real things…-

    And, best of all, the icing on the cake…Unlimited, free sex!!

    Tell me, are you learning the bouzouki too?!

  87. martyn says:

    Shantam.
    .If you experienced the commune as a better place I’m very happy for you . I experienced it in differing ways over differing times. One thing though… I never belonged easily or comfortably in lalala land with it or fellow sannyassins , who constituted my whole dominant emotive human reality for on and off 30 years.
    As I realised my internal synthsesis progressively required fewer ready made answers or ready made forum for interaction , and the vocabulary and interactions were unsatisfyingly highly stylised…then my independent free spirit and aliveness shone through more and more..All very much along the lines of well i’m sure Osho would agree …

    . As and when necessary as i’ve said before here..in Osho’s own language.. If you meet the Buddha on the road ….tell him to fuck off… and smile….and enjoy a laugh together
    As far as any rapport with Oshoness… it continues … but I’m very aware of the difference between ‘legacy’ and functioning internal disposition to liberation.
    The same as dead and alive.

    For me its not about his words , but mine.
    Thats why neither Sheela nor Al qaeda nor Amrito is of the slightest interest to my perception of what makes me tick.
    And Osho is great on DVD…..but only as a touch not a spoonful of medicine.He (as he was) is now dead.gone..remember the difference of being with him live and watching a DVD?.. I do. You cant re-invent the wheel…

    The experience of a rational supremacy is not made of rational supremacy. But I understand thats whats needed if you want to make a commune. And what you need to survive one.Or avoid one.

    His blessings..(.ie have a fucking good time however you sort it out..)
    m..

  88. Satya Deva says:

    Shantam -

    Don’t take my words above too seriously…

    There’s a General Erection on over here in the UK, you see, and we’re all getting very hot under our collars and ties about which party to go to tonight…

    So – no hard feelings, ok? (If you see what I mean).

  89. shantam prem says:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/art/features/erik-johansson-the-art-of-manipulation-1957888.html

    Be with a living Master or with the dead one, vote for any of the three mains in UK or the mixture of two, Life is like a bit of photoshop manipulation.

    Enjoy the photo essay.

  90. shantam prem says:

    Kranti, the paragraph below needs a vast discussion as it is one of the longest serving paradox on the path of seekers.

    “Mystery school is alive only when the master is in the body.. When the enlighetened master is not there what can be provided is just the space where people can go , meditate and relate to fellow travellers.. How a dynamic mystery school can thrive without the Master in the same way it did when he was alive? You need Him to keep it alive …He kept fine tuning everything.. Infact it is dangerous to try and recreate the mystery school without the Master being there to guide..”

  91. shantam prem says:

    On Location
    Song recording of the movie on the the life and times of Bhagwan Rajneesh- OSHO completed
    IMP News Wire, Dated 3 September 2009

    Osho Premi Pictures have announced a feature film on the life & times of OSHO. The film, titled BHAGWAN RAJNEESH OSHO is being produced and directed by Swami Prem Rajesh.

    All the eight songs of the film were recorded at Pancham Recording Theatre recently in the voices of Suresh Wadkar,Kavita Krishnamurthy,Sukhwinder Singh,Sadhna Sargam,Mohd. Aziz,Madan Shukla, Om Arun and Aroon Bakshi.

    Lyrics: Swami Prem Rajesh. The film will be shot on the birthday of Bhagwan Rajneessh on 11th December in Mumbai locales followed by a major spell in Pune,Jabalpur and other locales of India and abroad. The cast and other credits of the filmare under finalisation.

  92. Swami Detective says:

    Kranti I mention other key figures in the movement to create a perspective against the view that everything is run by Jayesh, Amrtio, and the team.

    You chose to indirectly criticise and therefore neutralise what I said about the editing out of issues like love, surrender, and Osho’s equating love with the Zorba part of Zorba the Buddha. You chose to do this by changing the equating my use of the term devotion with Osho’s use of the terms love and surrender. You created a diversion of the main subject by going into a general critique of devotion (worship). I presented the case by using the term devotion (rather than love or surrender), and it appears that that is a word you don’t much like for some reason.

    Yes you have offered a quote which focuses more on individual awareness, where as I offered a quote that focused on a balance between love and individual awareness. Of course I am sure I could find a quote that focuses more on love alone as the path. Obviously the more the focus on individual awareness the less the need for the Master, and that is whether or not the Master is in the body.

    If Osho gave a discourse which spoke of both the issue of love and awareness together, and also of individual awareness (just like your quote), what would happen if I cut out your quote when I did the compiling? If I did this systematically, and then a whole bunch of people read it, then this bunch of people will have a collective belief system based on this. Then when you say that Osho was all about individual awareness you will be laughed at by the Osho community. This systematic bias is what Jayesh and Amrito are doing with their editing and compiling. You support there views probably in large part because you have been exposed repeatedly to their unbalanced and biased media.

    From your quote you seek to justify the de-Ohoisation process at the resort. I ask, how is it that other quotes that offer an alternative viewpoint are somehow invalid. Of course at the end of your quote you introduce a view of the movement around Osho coming to an end with him leaving the body. From here you argue de-Oshoisation is OK, yet you also support the process undertaken by Jayesh, Amrito and team (both at the resort and in general). You can’t have it both ways!

    If you like the meditations at the resort and are not interested in anything to do with other aspects of Osho, then it is likely that even if you were with Osho (when he was in the body), you would have been there primarily for the meditations (and the women). Your quote fits with what you like about Osho. Osho has offered so many other approaches (including the Love/Zorba the Buddha) approach. You, and nobody else, has the authority to delete these from Osho’s legacy. Of course if you want to set up a centre that fits with what Osho meant to you, go ahead. If you hand out a holy bible at the front gate that is a biased cut and paste job that deeply undermines Osho’s message, that is not OK. It is also not OK to do it in Pune, because Pune was the only place that Osho left to offer his complete package. Of course Pune has been over run by a bunch of zealous bigots that are full of zen and worship hyprocisy.

    How is it also OK that the entire meaning of Osho’s words are changed through the editing process? There are clear examples of this in the deleted quotes at the bottom of the last article.

    How also do you fit in the viewpoint from Jayesh that Osho as a being is fully available to all seekers on the path (not just his awareness, not just his energy field, but someone his entirety), such that even newcomers need not go to any other of the living (fake) gurus around the place?

    So the roseflower has gone, the mystery school has gone. Funny enough I would agree with you on that one. What are you doing arguing here then? Why did you go to Pune? Why, when you were pinned down for your inconsistencies did you finally admit that you had a bias towards Amrito? Had you met him when you said this? This seems strange to me?

    Kranti simply because I make a comment that appears to be in conflict with Osho somehow makes everything that I have set in a positive way invalid? For starters there is no conflict because, as I explained, it is likely that he viewed Sheela as 99 percent useful in the beginning, and 99 percent pain in the ass in the end. Of course, as I also explained, Osho had to try and justify The Ranch implosion to his people (the sane ones that is). This general need gave rise to a series of discourses that had a practical motivation that was probably more political than spiritual. You jump to conclusions in order to criticise when the answer is all ready in front of you. You did the same thing with Swami Rajneesh.

    Kranti, you differ from your bosses on the issue of the Master after leaving the body. You do this through your own misuse of Osho quotes. It is OK to chose the words of Osho that support your view, and that you follow this. It is not OK that you try and force others to adopt this view and live accordingly, especially when it is so obvious that Osho has offered many other views on the subject.

    Yes it is dangerous to change anything that the Master has left behind. Good point, and this is why when it is so clear that major changes have been made this should stop. The compilations which have a deep bias through systematic deletion and change of meaning should be removed from circulation. They can create a bias in the mind of the reader. This bias is the basis of a belief system, a cult, or a religion. The bias and deletion in the books is the same as in the Inner-Circle and the Pune resort. If it continues, and with Pune resort has the physical centre, a new and dangerous cult/religion will be born (has been born already actually).

  93. Swami Detective says:

    This is an interesting quote….Mystery school is alive only when the master is in the body.. When the enlighetened master is not there what can be provided is just the space where people can go , meditate and relate to fellow travellers.. How a dynamic mystery school can thrive without the Master in the same way it did when he was alive? You need Him to keep it alive [End quote]

    Most people think that is what is happening at Pune resort, especially because it is no longer called an ashram and has fancy new facilities. Most people also think the publishing wing (OIF) is sharing accessible books about Osho too. Yet we see that there is a systematic misreperentation of his words. It is not just cutting out stuff to do with anything that may be conceived as distasteful devotional mumbo jumbo. It is also not just about propagating the general notion of devotional free ‘zen’ either.

    Most interesting is Jayesh’s very own personal relevant view….He asks in this understanding that where Osho is used – be it in the name of a meditation center, a publication, a therapist’s title, or in any other context –
    that people coming find Him, His understanding, His proposal with all 24 karats. That nothing associated with Osho cause confusion to others coming about the essential direction of their path – particularly to His new people. [End quote]

    If you have a look at the examples of systematic deletions from Osho texts (at the bottom of the last article), how can one maintain that 24 karat purity has been maintained. It is not even gold painted. It is fools gold!

    Here is the next relevant view from Jayesh….He [Osho] shares that many of His people who were with Him in the body would not make the jump from the presence of the master in the body to the absence of the master in the body. That for the mind of many, the gap created would be too deep and too wide. That in the mystery of existence, they would not understand that they had received from existence exactly what was required of the Master’s bodily presence. And that in this pain of the mind they would travel the world sitting at the feet of every idiot – Osho’s words. Clear, accepting and compassionate.

    He also says that His new people, who would be coming after He left the body, would not have the need of His physical presence – again in the mystery of existence, if they had that need they would have come earlier. He says existence calls people to the work of an enlightened One at exactly the right moment. That because of countless generations of religions and priests, we are conditioned that we need the other and as a result we give the other our responsibility. That his new people coming would be very fragile in their potential to be totally responsible and be courageous enough to walk alone, feeling the presence of the Master without the need of His body….

    ….perhaps you are not available now to His message to us all – present and future – that without the burden of His tortured body His presence will be more available to His people. [End quote]

    So if you read a fancy advert in some New Age magazine in the West (or East), you probably would come to Pune resort thinking that it was a nice modern cult free space to meditate and hang out with fellow seekers. Well Jayesh has other ideas!

    Kranti expresses a view that the living Master is extremely important, even essential. We can do some quote bashing on the subject but will that get anywhere? I would argue that it can reach a conclusion. At the end of his life Osho made it absolutely clear that there was to be NO spiritual successor. He did leave a group called the Inner-Circle. He however made it absolutely clear that this body was not a substitute for a spiritual successor, and that this group was to administer his practical affairs.

    At one stage Jayesh (Chair of the Inner-Circle) was having some disobedience trouble with people visiting other living Masters (fake or otherwise). So Jayesh shuts this down by introducing his take on what Osho means to him (now that Osho has left the body). This is Jayesh’s own interpretation of Osho. As Chairman of the Inner-Circle he has a practical limitation to his mandate. Yet, he ignores this.

    Here is the end of the letter from Jayesh that I have quoted….

    With love to you,
    Swami Anand Jayesh,
    Chairman,
    On behalf of the Inner Circle.

    [End quote]

    You see it is Jayesh, as Chair of the Inner Circle, which has a practical mandate, who imposes his personal views of Osho on the entire movement (and others that become interested).

    Kranti offers a quote that expresses an idea that Jayesh also likes very much, that of individual awareness. The trouble with this quote is that it focuses so much on this concept that it diminishes the importance of the Master, so much so that in the end Osho says that once the Master has gone, everything worthwhile has finished. (Remember that Osho left NO successor!)

    The system that has been adopted for editing and compilation is such that the inclination would be in this instance to keep the first part of the quote, and then delete the last part. Then, when you put it all together, you get a non-devotional ‘zen’ impression of Osho, yet you still get to keep the Master (even now that he is dead). You see the last part of the quote actually completely discredits everything done after 19th Jan, 1990. That is why it should be deleted. Actually that is not entirely true. It discredits everything that seeks to create the impression of an Osho sannyassin as having spiritual authority (and spiritual superiority).

    The simple fact of the matter is that Osho left a straightforward non-controversial road map. With no spiritual successor, the only scope is to protect and make available his legacy. There can be no interpretation or argument, even at the highest levels. The reason is because the highest level was a practical managerial administration (the Inner-Circle). If you understand the simple truth of being in the Inner-Circle, who would want the job anyway. It is simply to protect his property, make available his meditations, therapires, discourses, and publications, all with the aim of 24 karat purity. Jayesh is right about the 24 karat purity part. It is why anything other than editing for simple grammatical mistakes is not possible. Yet, vast editing and deletion and creation has been done.

    Who would want to be in the Inner-Circle? Well just after Osho left the body Amrito (vice-chair) said that in White-Robe the following night he would explain the functioning of the Inner-Circle. Explain what, that you had just been given a boring practical job. Ah no, some people in the Inner-Circle were great devotees and disciples of Osho. They had imbibed the spirit of Osho for decades and were now saintly beings. So the secret that the work of the Inner-Circle is an entirely boring affair was kept a secret. This is the secret. The secret is already out, it is just that you have forgotten.

    Then Jayesh and Amrito kicked everyone else out, and see the result. What do you think of Jayesh’s very own personal views about Osho. He is imparting his spiritual views on the Osho movement. He likes flash things hence you get either 5 stars or nothing, but he also likes to be the chief disciple of a Master that though dead, is still very much alive. Did you know that? Did you find that out when you read the latest Yoga journal or when you read the latest Osho texts that are subject to systematic deletion and editing?

    What about when you make the journey to the Pune resort? Even then you will not have a clue. You will either have to visit the German Bakery, oops you can’t do that because it has been blown up. Oh well maybe ask a dissident, oops you can’t do that because they have all been banned or left Pune through issuing of threats and violence.

    Hmmm, where is Jayesh?

    Well, he is a busy finance guru and only works behind the scenes to make available a nice space for people to meditate and meet. You see, it is because he is humble and has no ego, unlike Keerti and Rajneesh and others.

    Right so he has no spiritual interpretation of Osho that he secretly has imparted to me through the book I read?

    Nahh, not at all.

    Right, so the resort looks innocent enough, but actually the background is that the people higher up in management have a spiritual interpretation of Osho that fits with Jayesh’s, and they are also answerable to Jayesh?

    Nahh, they are just individual meditators who have lived here in this closed world for decades and have no cultish bias.

    Great, can I get a job?

    Sure, by the way, what is your belief system? And have a drink of the contaminated drinking water. Oh, yeah and that explosion you heard, I think it was nothing. Hey lets go to the party!

    Hey who is that guy he just slipped over the fence.

    Ahhh, that was nobody, it was just your projection. You will learn in time.

  94. shantam prem says:

    Religious person is more than a scientist and also more than artist. As his search is bigger than both.
    Science and arts are in duality, religion is synthesis.
    Just brain is connected with the development of science and technology. Heart is for imaginative art, poetry, painting music etc.

    Above is the rough translation from a discourse just listening in HIndi.
    There are innumerable numbers of quotations from Osho where He exprsses again and again, His vision of synthesis between two polar opposites, two complimentary forces etc.
    And not just like a speaking machine; he was trying to create that word through His actions, and thanks to the modren technology we can see all this in the moving pictures.
    In the series of Rama, Krishna, Jesus, Buddha; first time we have the photos of someone in the original face, the original voice, the original walking and talking;it leaves no scope for any one´s commentary.
    In my feeling it is utterly derogatory to project Osho as Zen Master, just because Zen was the last hangers, He was using for His coat.

    Still this has happened at the center of the oceanic movement, a systematic way to reduce the saltiness of the salt.

  95. Lokesh says:

    Shantam, you say. In my feeling it is utterly derogatory to project Osho as Zen Master,

    Why? Osho loved Zen more than any path. Towards the end of his life he had people researching to come up with obscure Zen stories and Haiku. The title Zen Master is an honorary one. As usual you are just firing of whatever nonsense comes into your head without really considering what you say.

    Swami Detective. In going over your last post I am left wondering why you bother to become involved in such politics to the extent that you devote so much time to writing about it. It is, when it all boils down, pretty mundane subject matter.
    Last night I watched a very interesting DVD about the life and teachings of Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj. The man who had overseen the making of the film knew what he was about. He related a story about when he first encountered the master and tried to relate through his ‘Guru Trip’ programme. The master immediately told him, ‘We don’t play that game here.’ He went on to say most gurus who let people indulge themselves in such things only do so because they are interested in accumulating wealth.
    All this blah blah about Osho’s legacy sounds like pure baloney to my ears. I first became interested in Osho by coming in contact with sannyasins and reading one of his early books. It had just come out at the time. It was titled ‘The way of the white cloud.’ In those days Osho wished for his people to move like white clouds, evaporate and then vanish. Now the story is about his legacy. How can a white cloud leave a legacy? That is completely contradictory to one of the primary cocepts Osho’s teachings are founded on.
    The stories about Jayesh are reminiscent of some Orwellian reality where the news is tailor-made to fit what is required. I believe that a person who is truly interested in awakening to their true inner nature will do everything possible to make that come about. Only a fool would waste much time around people arguing the toss about the merits of being with a dead master or as you put it..feeling the presence of the Master without the need of His body. If a person is sincere in their search they will work with what works and if it does not work they will move on.
    When I read people like Shantam Prem’s efforts it comes across as sentimentallity as opposed to spirituality. ‘Our Osho’ etc ad infinitum. These people are involved in a childish game and they are not really interested in growing up, because if they were they would see where they had become stuck and move on.

  96. shantam prem says:

    Sentimentality and spirituality—
    I remember the night life at St. Pauli, Hamburg.
    Women in the block houses, women on the street.
    Days after days, they share sex without sentimentality, because they need money.
    No Problem
    People without wife or unhappy with their WAG
    need sexual growth, so they go
    No sentimentality but much exchange takes place,
    No judgement!

    There are people who need Spirituality so they sit at the feet of A or B or C
    They need Spiritual growth so they travel to sit with these people.
    It is all for spirituality, no sentimentality.
    where is the judgement
    So is the path for few or many or is it for all?

  97. shantam prem says:

    Childish Games and Growing up-
    Let me coin one defination

    Those who watch Disney land toons are in Childish games; those who watch Nisaragdatta or Osho are in grown up league.
    What about those who watch porn on the net.
    They are pedalling between the two, the way human do.
    Peddling between animal past and spiritual growth.

    What is the defination of spiritual growth?
    Going to India to find some opium sellers, definately invisible opium, the invisible high, which keeps you wet even when it is dry.

    Cann´t you find them in the west?
    Sure, even a better quality. In this month there is one of the biggest congress of service providers in the every lasting market of Spiritual Growth.

    Rainbow-Spirit-Festivals: Enter here !
    http://www.rainbow-spirit.de/ – Im Cache – Ähnlich
    Heilung
    Feng Shui
    Reisen
    Hinduismus Lichtarbeit
    Christentum
    Naturgeister
    Seminarhäuser

    Lokesh,
    If you have the time, please visit.
    I will join you to go there.

  98. shantam prem says:

    Friends ,please, visit the above link.
    The rainbow spirit site is in German, English and French.
    Few of the top most names in the spiritual branch are mentioned with link to their web sites.
    Without joke, my heart feels happy to see new people entering into this branch. Democratic norms, equal opportunities and Competition improves quality. Such things need to be welcomed as we now every spiritual movement till now was ending up in the hands of clergy.

    My buttons are pushed only when diary owners at Pune are turning milk into a one kind of product.
    It is the grace of Osho that he was offering all kind of recipes what one can make with Milk and was always experimenting with the distinct tastes and modifying them according to His own brand.

    Therefore as a small share holder who has put all his eggs in one basket requests the CEO, not to turn “Nestle” into Britannia Glucose Biscuit.

  99. Lokesh says:

    SP: I’ll say this for you. You are not without a sense of humour,
    You ask: What is the defination of spiritual growth?

    That is a question you will have to answer for your self. I’ll give you a hand, It is not about being comfortable. Now off you go and fetch some water and chop some wood, while I do the same. XXX

  100. shantam prem says:

    Was reading again, the article of this thread by Ramoda.
    One paragraph took the attention as it reminded me my visit to Sheela´a commune 7 years ago.

    “Sheela , like Milne has also recreated a community, this time unfortunately with mentally challenged adults, who are misused in this film as a background scenario presenting Sheela as the caring mom. Now she has surrounded herself with people who cannot question her, or don’t even understand how they are misused in this film for Sheela’s personal politics. It is pathetic to see that the institution for these handicapped people is filled with Pune 1 ‘Bhagwan’ photos and how Sheela explains that she is living Osho’s vision in this ‘commune’. Can it get more pathetic?”

  101. Lokesh says:

    Can it get more pathetic? Yes.

  102. Kranti says:

    Sw Detective

    Thanks.. But your last post was a bit complex. Let me understand a little more and respond.. I do respect your views..

  103. shantam prem says:

    If not Abhay and Hari OM or Rajneesh, who so ever you are Detective, most of the time you raise the points which are like writing on the wall.
    I hope against the visible reality that future inner circle will have the people who are passionately adament to preserve the continuity of Osho rather than the loop sided interptation of XVZ.

    The other day, i have received early days Black and white photo of Osho, it must be late 1960´s. In an open jeep Osho is sitting with his trademarked Namaste and people of the town are on the both sides welcoming him.
    To me it shows Man was always playing to the galery, always step ahead and always very clear to establish himself as one of the formost religious Master//mystic/ Sexguru/Sufi Master/ Zen Master; it is too simpifying to rely upon the heresay of one two or few persons, vision is not like carrying a dead body, where four shoulders are enough.

  104. shantam prem says:

    http://epaper.indianexpress.com/IE/IEH/2010/05/09/index.shtml

    “Why growing numbers of youngsters are turning to Vipassana, a difficult form of meditation, when they need to disconnect-from facebook friends and clutter of modren living.
    A weakening bond with parents and pressures of ambition have stripped away traditonal support structures for the youth. For many even religion offers little solace. That is where Vipassana helps.”

  105. shantam prem says:

    This thread, looks like has come to an end.
    So in the last, circulating mail from Jeevan(jeevanosho@gmail.com)
    If someone is not in her mailing list, please contact at the address above. The conetnts in her mails have more punch than the material at official sites.

    Beloveds: Celebrating my 83 birthday today with a quote from the master. Having been raised as a JAP (Jewish American Princess) jokes come naturally to me. And sending them off to you is my joy! love, Jeevan

    Osho: Why do you tell jokes?

    And why don’t you laugh at your own jokes?

    First: Religion is a complicated joke. If you don’t laugh at all you have missed the point; if you only laugh, you have missed the point again. It is a very complicated joke. And the whole life is a great cosmic joke. It is not a serious phenomenon – take it seriously and you will go on missing it. It is understood only through laughter.

    Have you not observed that man is the only animal who laughs? Aristotle says man is the rational animal. That may not be true – because ants are very rational and bees are very rational. In fact, compared to ants, man looks almost irrational. And a computer is very rational – compared to a computer, man is very irrational.

    My definition of man is that man is the laughing animal. No computer laughs, no ant laughs, no bee laughs. If you come across a dog laughing you will be so scared! Or a buffalo suddenly laughs: you may have a heart attack. It is only man who can laugh; it is the highest peak of growth. And it is through laughter that you will reach to God – because it is only the highest that is in you that you can reach the ultimate. Laughter has to become the bridge.

    Laugh your way to God. I don’t say pray your way to God, I say laugh your way to God! If you can laugh you will be able to love. If you can laugh you will be able to relax. Laughter relaxes like nothing else.

    So all jokes to me are prayers – that’s why I tell them.

    And you ask: “Why don’t you laugh at your own jokes?”

    Because I have heard them before.

  106. wendelin says:

    Hi friends,
    I have also had the opportunity to watch the movie in Basel a few weeks back.

    I came to a different conclusion then the author of this review.

    If you are interested to read my critic of the film you can find it here:
    http://www.facebook.com/wendelin59?ref=profile#!/notes/wendelin-ackermann/guru-bhagwan-his-secretary-his-bodyguard-film-review-english-translation-by-khab/419808552287

    With love from Germany

  107. Devakrishna says:

    Hallo everybody, I also saw the movie last week and had mixed feelings.
    Here is my review:

    Basically it is a documentary of Puna 1 and the Ranch time.
    With Sheela and Shiva being interview as main characters.
    A mixed bag of love for Osho and blaming him at the same time of and on during the entire movie.
    The end leaves the viewer with a big question mark: Osho a ‘genius’ or ‘someone who lost it at the end’?

    Of course at the end of the movie there was a question and answer situation and few sannyasin friends expressed their views, mainly about Sheela still pointing the finger and not really taking responsibility.
    Quite some reactions!

    Many still photos at the beginning puna 1 period, probably from Shiva and Sheela albums, raw footage from what looks like amateur videos and from TV channels, osho discurses and interviews, footage of the ranch being build etc.
    Also some pretty wilde scenes of the groups of puna 1, I think where from Somendra’s and Rajen’s groups.

    Sheela after the movie was promoting her book with the title in german, ‘Bhagvan, don’t kill him again.’

    I could see the good intentions of Beat, the creator of the movie who I heard he had to compromise with his bosses and had to took out Veeresh interviews and other positive things.

    Although it has positive elements in it about Osho … I saw blame from Sheela and Shiva to Osho AND to each other.
    At the same time it gave the feeling of how we lived and how we where with Osho in the communes.
    Quite a beautiful down the memory lane ride for who was there and I bet quite intriguing for who was not.

    I also agree a lot with Ramoda’s review

    Love
    Krish

  108. I find that many people are not willing to look at the crimes that were committed in Bhagwan’s name in Oregon. I happened to witness many. I also sat through all the name changes that he went through in 1989…is the name Osho an attempt to separate from the wrong doings we committed in Oregon, Pune1…and the continued money laundering that happens in Pune to this day? I always found it ironic that Bhagwan/Osho spoke so much about trying to wake us up when he spent so many hours under the influence of laughing gas (i witnessed its delivery, I was his personal shopper and guard) and that so many drug dealers got special treatment and up close seating in Pune 2. I am not a disgruntled former sannyasin. I am forever grateful for what I learned at his side. I am also realistic about what I saw and a lot of it was criminal….give Sheela and Shiva a break…we are all struggling in some form in this life. Jai Bhagwan…Viva la Vida!

  109. UMBERTO CARRARA says:

    hello friends,
    scrolling trough reading here and there gives the clear sensation that what is left is just a dogmatic religion and politics.the great experiment has ended.
    take care
    umberto

  110. shantam prem says:

    Anando,
    Contents of your brief post are full of stories.
    Would you like to share few of your Memories of Osho and life around Him, the way you are telling a pictorial story at your website.

  111. shantam prem says:

    Let me correct the spelling mistake in your name, it is Anado not Anando.

  112. I shy away from this back and forth stuff…the Osho/Bhagwan story has so many different takes. My take is that he is dead…gone…and anything left behind is just hearsay……let him rest in peace…..

  113. mahasattva says:

    osho was and is purely here and now … i cant understand the noise, nor the quotes :-)

    enjoy your buddhahood, sisters and brothers …

  114. Swami Prem Vimalgit says:

    ….Had communion with Osho….1977….1984….1985…..and on and on….as Swami Rajneesh says..”I saw Osho before…I saw Osho”……My saying is….”.I saw Osho…..because I never met Osho ….or saw Osho….in the body”…..Death….the ultimate joke…:):):):)

  115. Michael says:

    Has anyone read Milne’s book? As his bodyguard he was sincere in what he was doing, until Oregeon and Sheela wanted to disrupt/destroy the inner circle. Milne obliged and with a Phd worked 12 hour days driving a back hoe in the cold with little food or comforts. Milne said what no one wants to believe and the title of his book says it all “The G-d That Failed”

    Bagwhan was ordered to leave India, due to mitigating circumstances which advocated sexuality in a Conserative country (India is not a Frathouse afterall) and avoiding taxes. This is no small matter and should not be trivialized. So to wipe his past clean, Sheela and Bhagwan moved to NJ where a commune in Oregon was established without much thinking trough. It all starts out fine, until local politics forbid building on site. This is where trouble began. Instead of going about it legally and patiently which is what Milne points out, Sheela attacked. And Milne became a target/victim of circumstance.

    As Sheela attacked, Osho was drunk on nitrous pissing in his gown as he walked. Osho was unable to make decisions. As CEO he should have fired her, but she was probably able to blackmail him and this is where something which began with honest intentions went wrong.

    Milne wrote about aspects which Bhagwan wished he could hide. But Milne’s book was sincere and not critical. Bhagwan was a bald faced liar. Yet Milne demonstrates grace and growth for what he sustained. As a grown man he accepted his decisions both good and bad. He knew what privilege he had and lost, at no fault of his own.

    But there was no leadership at the Ashram. And this is where the Reagan administration stepped in. RR had enough dealing with incorrigible hippies in CA as Governor. And he decided to put an end to it in OR. No doubt FBI’s hand was forced, fortunately. Osho producing lectures while protected by M-16s is not what America is about. It was time for Osho to find a country which would allow his shenanigans to go on. Not in America.

  116. Jerry says:

    It’s the same old story, told again and again. Cult begins with purest of intentions, ends in corruption and violence. The true believers will never believe it was the “Master’s” fault and engage in endless rationalizations to exuse him.

  117. loola says:

    I agree with your article about the authors of the movie.
    Idiotic people indeed! They missed!
    I’m just ashamed that my photo was used for the movie promo… don’t like to be associated from far or near with these two, and their poisonous minds.
    By the way the movie is a flop! no success whatsoever!
    GOOOOD!!!