The Day we got Guns

When Swami Prem Rajesh died in 2010, they found this unpublished controversial memoir of the Rajneeshpuram period in his things. It is written in a stream of consciousness sort of way, which we found appealing also. 

The Day We Got Guns – Swami Prem Rajesh

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109 Responses to The Day we got Guns

  1. prem martyn says:

    Can’t read the article just yet – too long…

    By aiming to legitimize the community as a legal entity in an unwelcoming US, then Osho consented to the game being played out with a childish, albeit legal, police force of Rajneeshpuram. Photos exist of a gun-toting, licensed Sannyas police person around Osho etc.

    In the US, Sheela did what happens all the time in India, having a statutory police force available to intervene. The fact that the power structure of the ashram has never been or will be libertarian or Anarchist-devolved will always give rise to unaccountability. In that era, Osho colluded at the very least in this stupidity, if only for appearance sake.

    Only know of one true fascist-killing instrument…that’s Woody Guthrie’s guitar. A true American who loved his land and the spirit of freedom amongst the collaborative supportive people, facing the onslaught of domestic exploitation, oppression and international war…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwcKwGS7OSQ

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxiMrvDbq3s

  2. bodhi vartan says:

    Nothing in it that is not already known. The rumblings of one of Sheela’s lesser lackeys as he was sleepwalking into tyranny…

    This is how he described the end:

    “But the tragedy, like tragedies are, was inevitable.
    However, unlike Hamlet’s final scene, a stage littered with dead bodies,
    in this drama no one sustained serious injury; a scourge of bad feelings, a
    rash of enmity, a glut of dashed dreams, but no pile of bloody corpses to
    gratify the audience.
    It is strange, with all the danger, threats, and subterfuge, besides some
    sickness from poisonings, all that happened was just: craziness.”

    He uses the word “crazy” a bit too much. He was instructed by Sheela to use it and he did use it to the very end, as if it actually explained anything.

    • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

      Hold on a minute, Bodhi Vartan!

      Late Rajesh has been sitting on his ass in an apartment alone, typing on his typewriter some of his life story as honestly as he was able to and obviously didn´t do that to become a somewhat famous guy or acknowledged, but more for his own sake; that´s what I got energetically out of it and as such it is precious, that it was/is shared here-now.

      Not only reading that, I have come to know that he must have had a loving mother, but also that he wrote in 1988 during his then visit to the so-called Pune 2 Ashram, this letter to Bhagwan, about how miserable he had felt.

      He was left alone (unanswered?) and not comforted – not relieved either.

      And he did something out of that – in growing; that´s my impression after all, although I, like Prem Martyn, couldn´t read it all by now, let alone be still about it. Digest it, as there is lots to digest in it, also for me.

      I am just up to give you feedback, Bodhi Vartan, that at least since the time I joined here, some of that flavour (late Rajesh´s) is truly missing from your side. I experience your contributions like this latest one, rather like throwing stones while sitting yourself in a glasshouse.

      Madhu

      P.S:
      Editors: There is a note to be seen in that transcript that it is prohibited to be used – did you clear that with the heirs?

      • bodhi vartan says:

        Madhu Dagmar Frantzen says:
        “He wrote in 1988 during his then visit to the so-called Pune 2 Ashram, this letter to Bhagwan, about how miserable he had felt.

        He was left alone (unanswered?) and not comforted – not relieved either.”

        On page 236:

        “On arriving, I write Osho a letter.
        I confess that I’d been involved in criminal acts at the ranch, and that I’d betrayed everyone, including myself, by not exposing the corruption I witnessed behind the scenes. I admit that despite my ugly actions, I had a great time.

        Osho writes back, in his divinely detached way, that he’s happy I enjoyed it.”

      • bodhi vartan says:

        Madhu Dagmar Frantzen says:
        “Hold on a minute, Bodhi Vartan! Some of that flavour (late Rajesh´s) is truly missing from your side.”

        Sorry, I didn’t know that I had to subscribe to any particular flavour. I just commented on what I read. I could have said more…like…I found Rajesh to be misogynistic – but let’s leave it at that.

        • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

          I tried to pick some of the whole picture, Bodhi Vartan, by the first reading (testimony of a man, a sannyasin, who died in 2010) and my feeling about it.

          Didn´t leave out (in the reading) to perceive and feel that I could have been glad to have not met him personally in Ranch time: as a woman and especially as a German woman.

          As far as mysogynism goes, the UK chat from of my perspective is pretty full of it energetically, and in your more very covered way you are not a male exception.

          I am just trying to see and understand the whole picture presented, and I am not finished with it.

          Madhu

        • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

          And…P.S. to Bodhi Vartan:

          My understanding of Osho’s response to Rajesh´s letter (1988) quite differs from yours, by the way.

          • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

            And…to Dear Editors from SN -
            Gratitude -
            for your putting that very living sparkle of Light the late Prem Rajesh shared and left for all of us, who are concerned (or may have been/or still are blocked in some or other dark Trauma-Tunnel).

            The second read took its timeless time and thoroughly done, unfolded its healing powers.

            As Truth heals and Love heals.

            And opening my heart wide, I got such a fresh breeze, I cannot say, but let it work out its own way.

            One cannot but love this fellow-traveller and his honesty, I’d say. When he left one of his many poems as expressive gifted writing creativity to Ma Satya Priya (NY) shortly before his departure: “we meet in she ether then and in the Silence…”, one (me) is tempted to quote his own habitual greetings with his own words: “See you when I see you.”

            With love,

            Madhu

            P.S:
            And like to add a special Cheers to Anubodh, wheresoever, whosoever, ´Timbuktu-lane’….

  3. samarpan says:

    For those who did not know Rajesh, there is a photo on page 7 along with an obituary. ( July/Aug 2010 edition of Viha Connection).

    http://www.oshoviha.org/connection/VC_July-August2010web.pdf

  4. samarpan says:

    Each of Osho’s sannyasins is a beautiful and unique flower of Osho…and each experiences sannyas in his or her own way.

    “I remember Bhagwan saying that everyone’s experience of sannyas is different, and the only common thread among them is the connection to the master. The real core of the relationship exists, not between one disciple and another, but between master and disciple.

    I will always have Bhagwan in my heart.”

    Rajesh, ‘The Day We Got Guns’ (p. 230)

    • satyadeva says:

      “Each of Osho’s sannyasins is a beautiful and unique flower of Osho.”

      Are they? Another rather sentimental statement, Samarpan, and in my experience it’s certainly not and never has necessarily been true of “each” person.

      And anyway, why single out sannyasins? If each of them are “beautiful and unique flowers” then I suggest the same applies to everyone else. Or, more realistically, some, or many, but not all people, whether sannyasins or not, are “beautiful and unique”.

      I now suspect you of elitist tendencies as well as possessing a somewhat over-active imagination whereby you so much want certain things to be true that you imagine and then believe they are.

        • shantam prem says:

          Satyadeva and Simond have the idea through their non-sentimental approach they will corner the God!

          People living on borrowed money want to open their bank! At least they can dream about, “Our bank won´t go bankrupt.”

          • satyadeva says:

            It’s nothing to do with “God”, Shantam, it’s about seeing and expressing things clearly, with minimal interference from emotionally-driven imagination. But you wouldn’t know about that, of course.

            • Arpana says:

              Shantam is getting a huge pay off from this.

              IMO he’s finally realised that his nagging, carping, attempts at manipulation are not going to force the sannyasnews posters to get the chairmanship of the ashram for him, so now he’s acting out martyr, like a born-again Christian, seeking criticism, to enhance his martyr ego. (Although in the background of the passive- aggressive martyr shite he’s still clinging by his fingernails to the notion he will succeed).

    • jake says:

      “I will always have Bhagwan in my heart.”

      The day I saw the illusion, I saw Bhagwan did not merit a place a place in my heart. As long as you love Bhagwan you will stay asleep.

      • satyadeva says:

        What was “the illusion” you saw, Jake?

        • jake says:

          Hello Satyadeva, ready to trip me up, here we go.

          The illusion is that we accept this life as ours, ours in all the senses. The reality is we are not doing anything, we do not know or understand anything, we are simply the Original Being, an awareness existing beyond our 6 senses (I count mind). In actuality, we are not Do-ing anything, nothing, zero. All is done by illusion.

          As long as one needs disciple or master, one will sleep. because these plus the belief are manufactured by illusion. When Buddha was speaking of illusion, he was not saying this 80% is illusion, or this 90%, he was saying all is illusion:
          “The only thing real in the illusion is the illusion”.

          So master, disciple, dogs, cats, minds, bodies, love. all is illusion. I should have just said “Life”, given you a simple answer. I will not make an assumption as to what is not illusion concretely. NOR DO I EXPECT ANYONE TO AGREE WITH ME, in fact the opposite. So if any of you wish to disagree, there is no point, I understand.

          Until Existence forced me to this viewpoint I would have held out hope for some input, for some free will. The choiceful mind holds on to hope. Bhagwan was an exploiter, glorifying his position of master far beyond any necessity. Let the rendering begin.

          • Arpana says:

            This post is the verbal equivalent of a dive-bomb right into the middle of a group of people at a swimming pool.

            Like you’re a real hardnut skinhead and now you’re standing in the middle of us all screaming:

            “Come on then. If you think you’re hard enough. I’ll fuckin’ ‘ave u; and you, and fucking you.”

            {。^◕‿◕^。}

            Hilarious.

          • satyadeva says:

            Actually, Jake, I wasn’t interested in ‘tripping you up’, I was simply wondering exactly what you meant by “illusion” and how this dawned on/in you.

            Having just read your explanation my first thought is something like ‘congratulations, well done!’ (although, presumably, you’d deny ‘you’ have “done” anything?).

            Another thought is ‘What about tangible bodily experiences – surely, for example, pain or sexual pleasure are ‘real’ enough on that frequency?

            I’m thinking aloud here, by the way…

            A third one is that it’s very difficult for any teacher or master to successfully get that raw message across (if indeed it is their ultimate truth) except on a purely intellectual level because the vast majority of their listeners, readers, ‘disciples’, devotees or fellow-travellers (including myself, of course) are just nowhere near ready for it, it begs so many questions on various levels, those where we ‘normally’ reside and others now and then perhaps touched upon, intuited or merely heard about.

            Isn’t much of the work of a genuine master with the particular segment of humanity he’s helping and informing concerned with firstly making sure his/her people are well grounded on a basic level, especially perhaps emotionally and in practical terms in their daily, ordinary lives? Perhaps you might say all that’s ‘kid’s stuff’, and maybe it is for some, but I suggest that for many, most in fact, this is an essential prerequisite and to gloss over such areas is not helpful.

            Simply declaring “all is illusion” might be a very ‘high’ truth, but it might not be of much, if any, help – and might well even do much harm – to those who need to get the ‘basics’ right, including, for example, the crucial areas of sex, love and relationships, these being much more than just ‘basics’, forming as they do, the key areas of our lives.

            You or others might say that Osho, for instance, got certain things ‘wrong’ in those departments, but very many would contradict that, claiming the opposite, in their own experience. And perhaps that without such ‘groundwork’ having laid the foundations for deeper exploration, they wouldn’t have got very far, certainly not far enough to benefit from an ‘all is illusion’ teaching.

            Also, to really know it’s “illusion”, isn’t it first necessary to experience its various facets, to know it and learn its lessons? Especially to get right into the body, via meditation, as where else are we to find what we’re looking for, including realising the “illusion” if that’s what it amounts to?

            Horse before cart, surely?

            Anyway, those are my first thoughts, thanks for responding and I’m sure plenty more will come from other readers here.

            • jake says:

              Satyadeva,
              ‘What about tangible bodily experiences – surely, for example, pain or sexual pleasure are ‘real’ enough on that frequency?”

              One is put in position, one is still at Existence behest, one accepts what it wishes. Advantages are servant mind, which is a lot kinder than ordinary mind, beyond the six senses has the illusion of being available at will, But one is still in acceptance, you watch yourself live knowing it is not your life. After initial alignment with Original Being, it stops being overwhelming, it is ordinary, and all of that is at its behest.

              Recently it was put in me to look at the relationship between O.B. and Existence, and the curiosity is that O.B. doesn’t care at all. One does not care whether one exists or not, does not care a bit about Existence or its creator, not even a thank you. Gratitude or understanding are not available. The only understanding one might have is here in the illusion, and it is not your understanding.

              When one considers the amount of suffering done in the name of illusion, one might wonder if we are in the hands of a sadistic programme or God. Looking at percentages of humans that become enlightened the feeling comes that it is so disproportionate, intentionally only to keep the religious section of Existence going. It has no problem keeping the war section going. If there is a problem with the product, is it the responsibility of the product or the manufacturers?

              Did I ramble? So have said all this you might see where I do not have a great appreciation for the master of masters perpetrating such a hoax on so many disciples. The exploited and the exploiter. And all are blameless. Hitler is as blameless as Bhagwan, and no different, even Buddha is still asleep. Because there is no way to awaken. O.B. is not concerned of awake or sleep

              So! It is probably time to bid adieu. If it helps, I know I do not know anything, I know I am not real.

              Adieu.

            • jake says:

              I like what you wrote, but there is no cart or horse, it is not cause and effect, or reaction. No master causes or helps anyone to become enlightened? Practising meditation does not bring one to mediation. Being a disciple does not do it, praying does not do it (illusion really talking to illusion); to be disheartening, there is nothing that will cause one’s enlightenment. My message certainly won’t help you.

              And as far as Bhagwan getting so much wrong or right, it was not his doing, he was blameless, we all are blameless, it’s not our show. Bhagwan raised a few interesting points. Lao Tsu was probably the closest, probably 50%. But all this is my perspective, and I am fooled as easily as they were.

  5. Lokesh says:

    Read the first 20 pages of Rajesh’s manuscrpt. Might read some more.
    Rajesh comes across as someone I might have been able to relate to. His writing style and prose was for me enjoyable. He captures quite well the zeitgeist. All in all, another fly on the wall account of events long gone.

    Like the saying goes: what others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream. Something Bodhi Vartan and Samarpan seem to not be taking into account. Of course, it could be said that is only my projection. And so it goes.

    • Parmartha says:

      Read the first 52 pages. Like you, Lokesh, could see something in the guy. Liked his writing style myself.

      Like you, Vartan, didn’t like his descriptions of egoistic sex. I can’t imagine why women don’t object more to it.

      His description of the Edison Temple and of how he felt working there is of great value for posterity and those who want to ‘explain’ how the Ranch worked and how it mirrored tyrannies everywhere.

      And like you, Lokesh, I’ll probably read the rest on a wet winter afternoon.

      • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

        “Like you Vartan, didn’t like his descriptions of egoistic sex. I can’t imagine why women don’t object more to it.”

        I tell you one reason, Parmartha: It’s because he has not been such an exception in his approach, as you probably like to imagine.

        In his script he is just more honest and clear about it than those who did and do camouflage their insensitivity to the female with flowery words which meant and mean nothing.

        The whole script though is very much worth reading, all of it. You then come across a man who surpassed his drug addiction and his addiction to porn-like stuff and deals with his criminal actions not only in the review quite consciously.
        This is more than one can say about many, many others and about these times long gone and up to nowadays.

        Picking up a few sentences out of the review book, to smash it all, will not do, more so as these special years in the 80s, like the now-here times, are really precarious times…just looking at what others here are just making out of the topic-title!

        Like spin doctors again…going for an uproar…

        I know Rajesh and I would have, as I said it already, never been intimate at that time, the way it was. Yet I am honouring his effort and his honesty and it helped me to regain some space amidst the trauma issues of mine, having had lots of nightmarish dreams during my longer visits on Humanity Trust, being left pretty much totally alone with it when I wanted to share what I felt and saw in dreams (like Mary, Rajesh´s lover). Or even misused emotionally and spiritually.

        He, Rajesh, has been quite clear in his man´s fantasies about women. You here, in the UK chat, are not (besides your hatred for the big Moms).

        Madhu

        MOD: WHAT WERE “my longer visits on Humanity Trust”, MADHU?

        • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

          If you just make the faintest effort, moderators, to stop Prem Shantam and/or ask him that way you deal with me, I gonna answer. And above all, I did share a lot already in the course of time.

          MOD: Madhu, we take a lot of care with your posts and only enquire when we don’t understand something. It’s not a personal thing at all, we just want to make things clear for everyone.

          • satyadeva says:

            Madhu, today I read that Mother Meera (who’s based in Germany) will be giving silent darshan in Munich this week, Wednesday and Thursday. There’s no fee and I strongly suspect you would enjoy the meditative atmosphere, so if interested, details are at mothermeera.org.

            By the way, she encourages people to write re difficulties in their life, and you could ask for help with any you might have. I know from my experience what this can mean, having myself received such help in key areas, otherwise I wouldn’t mention it.

            • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

              Thanks, Satyadeva,

              I did see Mother Meera midst of 90s even in HER ´old´ (first) residence and then in HER new one, the castle, kind of may have had glimpses of what you are talking about and in-between.

              What to say, grateful for your post. Let us see what happens; I simply don´t know – quite torn to pieces, me.

              Madhu

              P.S:
              Simply can´t cope with stalking perverts here and the bugging contemporary businesses and that´s also just one but a prominent reason I´ve been so hooked with Rajesh´s report; as opening up to more understanding about somebody being involved with crimes as a fellow-traveller, a ´friend, is a big issue for me.

              Such a challenge to dig deeper and deeper; what Trust is all about, isn´t it?

              • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

                Nothing stays the same, Satyadeva, does it? Also the way, celebrating, meeting an Enlightened Being, who is travelling.

                Back doors stood open, people coming and going; the sound of mobile phones in the meeting, lots of helpers to guide the comings and goings, quite disciplined.

                Always such a strong challenge for me, when spaces as such are dealt with this way. Gave it a long crying, coming along with the sharpened awareness about the state I am in meanwhile. Compassion has myriad of forms.

                Madhu

                (MOD:MADHU, WE ASSUME THIS IS ABOUT YOUR VISIT TO MEERA YESTERDAY?)

                • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

                  Yes, moderators, seems you knew it already, didn´t you?

                  MOD: WE READ SN TOO, YOU KNOW!

        • Parmartha says:

          Thanks, Madhu.

          My main thing about this type of pornographic prose is that it does not treat ‘women’ as ‘persons’. I am sure it happens the other way round too, for example when women just see men as meal tickets.

          Did you know Rajesh (White Boy) at all?

          All of us in life are in a sense made by the context in which we find ourselves at any given moment. Rajesh found himself in Edison because of his relatively rare skills, and as someone the Moms trusted could hold his tongue. Both of which proved to be good judgements!

          But his personal growth was still moderate and pleased you say later he transcended this sort of stuff. A life of addictions had not been transcended, cigarettes and coffee – equally harmful and equally mood changing as much else he did earlier in his life – whilst in the Edison dept.

          The “Moms” were also arguably victims of the context in which they found themselves. I feel for some of them, even still, particularly Savita. Just a lady in the wrong place at the wrong time, and got on a rudderless boat from which there was no getting off. I, for one, am not a Mom basher.

          I like the way that Rajesh writes and it is important that his life in Edison reaches a wider audience. I will read the rest of his memoir, just I got a bit fed up today of the egotistical sex passages.

          • Arpana says:

            Just reached page 31.
            He’s so honest with himself.
            Admirably so.
            Like the way he writes.

          • Lokesh says:

            “Egotistical sex passages”? Never got that far. Sounds interesting, though. Not quite sure what the term ‘egoistic sex’ represents. Never too old to learn something new.

            • Tan says:

              Totally agree with you, Lokesh. I am on page 40 and never came across an egotistical sex passage. Just came across two young people having fun, and the girl in question seemed pleased, so…I am enjoying very much the transcript and even if it was written many years ago, it still applies for life in general.

              Anyway, what egotistical sex means? Anyone could enlighten me? Cheers!

              • bodhi vartan says:

                “Anyway, what egotistical sex means? Anyone could enlighten me? Cheers!”

                I think egotistical sex is when you talk better sex than what you give.

                • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

                  “I think egotistical sex is when you talk better sex than what you give.”

                  Yes, that´s what you THINK, Bodhi Vartan.

                  Madhu

                • Tan says:

                  You may be right, BV, and the trend goes on, because it is what the kids do nowadays through text messages and nude photos…

                  Anyway, thanks a lot, my first laughter of this rainy Monday. Cheers!

  6. Kavita says:

    I finished reading this last night, before I went to bed. It seems the book is more for his family members/friends/ non-sannyassins, he is kind of explaining the sannyas lingo and all.

    Rajesh is not only pompoming about his sexual life but also of his anatomical knowledge of the female body; in any case he seems to be a good Christian by confessing about all the things he did, except his homosexual encounter, in detail. Probably he was more of a straight guy or probably didn’t know much about male anatomy!

    I was resisting reading it for a coupla days, but turned out to be ok, the writer seems to have had good communicating skills.

    Anyway, thank you, Parmartha for sharing the link.

    • Kavita says:

      I was resisting reading this PDF for a coupla days, but turned out to be ok, the writer seems to have had good communicating skills.

  7. shantam prem says:

    If you cannot write about sex, I think initiation into Neo-Sannyas is not complete.

    In case I am the chairman of Osho Resorts Pvt. Ltd, I may even start erotic story recital in Tantra groups! Sound of pleasure music playing in the background!

    Lols.

  8. prem martyn says:

    Page 2185

    Chapter 98

    I was hoping to have some egotistical sex when the sound of ‘Patton – Lust for Glory’ echoed from Bhagwan’s bedroom. It all seemed so right, yet so wrong. Patton was one of those generals who could motivate men by his oral ejaculations. He had an impressive ivory handle too, on his non-military issue holster.

    “Hup two, hup two, at the double, take that, you Krauty SONOFABITCH. Ping, paZOOM…boommm…”

    “Veeee zurrender to our American bruzzers.”

    Vanity, ego sex, violence, obeying orders – we had all been here before, surely? Yet I couldn’t refuse to obey – or could I?

    Whilst lost in the fog of my thoughts, my woman approached me again, appearing this time from the small bathroom door. It was late and I had been non-egotistic all day, worshipping. It was time for some answering of my prayers and by the look in her eyes, she knew what the question was.

    “Vell, vell, my little soldier boy, look who’s standing to attention now”, she intoned drily, yet strangely the air hung heavy with expectant musky dampness.
    ‘Yes, yes, it’s a nice-looking helmet eh, my love?”

    We were all familiar with the same script, we had already enjoyed many re-runs of the same film, but this time my woman was determined to see if the hero could actually make it through the thickly forested enemy lines. The lure of certain triumph forced him to harden his resolve….

  9. samarpan says:

    “Vanity, ego sex, violence, obeying orders – we had all been here before, surely? Yet I couldn’t refuse to obey – or could I?”

    Many sannysasins did refuse to obey and found themselves banned from returning to the Ranch. Others refused to obey and simply left with no intention of returning until the situation changed… which it did… and then many returned to Pune 2.

    Unfortunately, Rajesh did not refuse to obey (he just owned up to it all later). But, at the time, he put Osho’s life, and other lives, in danger by turning off security when ordered to do so, by researching for others all the ways to kill people.

    If the planned assassination of Osho had not failed, Rajesh would have been culpable. Ironically, I don’t see getting guns as a turning point at the Ranch. The Rajneeshpuram peace force was a legally constituted police force which acted responsibly. Nobody got killed by them.

    • shantam prem says:

      Samarpan, were you in the Rajneeshpuram? Were you also in Osho commune/Resort?

      Though I know it is not important for the judge, prosecution as well as defence lawyers to be present at the scene of ground zero.

      Anyway, if life allows, in the new administration regime of Osho Emporium, you will fit quite well as Spokesperson.

    • Parmartha says:

      Many? Samarpan,
      I was also on the Ranch as a commune member on three occasions. I never saw many gold bead full commune sannyasins leaving the Ranch. Very few in fact. Of course, a fair number who came on work programmes or to do groups left and didn’t like it.

      Adopting a police force was a turning point. The attack on the hotel in Portland was by a lunatic, and an isolated one at that, I am told. The police force was formed in response to that.

      It’s like any form of ‘escalation’, it displays no lateral or imaginative response at all. Just a tit for tat. Dangerous, as we see endlessly, in the foreign policies of all the world powers.

      • samarpan says:

        “The police force was formed in response to that.”

        Before the bombing there was a general feeling of paranoia (justifiably so)that generated inordinate secrecy as a result of multiple legal attacks by the state of Oregon, investigations by Federal agencies, conservative red-neck rejection of sannyasin culture, etc. in addition to all the difficulties encountered in creating Rajneeshpuram as a legally recognized city.

        The bombing crystallized the paranoia, but I always considered the police force as part of the municipal strategy. The peace force was not just for self-defence but was a part of a larger effort to emphasize that Rajneeshpuram was a legal city. Cities are legally eligible to have a post office, school, fire and police departments, downtown malls and restaurants, all of which Rajneeshpuram had.

        I do not think the peace force was a response to the hotel bombing in Portland. In April 1983, Rajneeshpuram hired its first two police officers. On July 29, 1983, three bombs exploded at the hotel in Portland. In other words, the idea of having a peace force and the hiring of qualified personnel had begun before the hotel bombing in Portland.

        • sannyasnews says:

          Thanks, Samarpan.
          Yes, you are right, the Peace Force was actually formed in 1982.

          What happened after the bombing of the Portland Hotel was the formation of the “Security” temple.
          Anyway, guns definitely expanded in number after that.

          I do not share the view expressed by SwamiShanti that the bombing was actually devised by Sheela to precipitate this us/them situation, but she certainly exploited it in an opportunistic manner. After that, guns became much more ‘visible’ on the Ranch.

          • swamishanti says:

            I don’t know actually, if it was part of Sheela’s plan to bomb the hotel. What I should have written is that I had read that it was her idea.

            I can’t remember where I read that, probably in one of the accounts of life on the Ranch from one of the sannyasins who lived in Osho’s house (was it Juliet Forman?).

            Can’t remember.

  10. swamishanti says:

    Well, this book has it all – cunninglingus, espionage, wiretapping…
    And a vivid account of life at the Ranch that will be interesting for many sannyasins. It even has a description of the author’s heart-to-heart communion with the Master during his drive-by.

    I’m sure that the book could be a best-seller.

    By the way, did Deborah get the Whiteman’s sausage in the end?

    I’ve got to about page 40.

    • Arpana says:

      I get the impression you’re not taking this very seriously, ss!

      • swamishanti says:

        I`ve only read about forty-odd pages of the book, but it is refreshing to read such a vivid and descriptive account of life on the Ranch during that time, from someone who was actually there.

        And I like the way that he describes his positive experiences of living and working in Rajneeshpuram, including his communion with Osho`s energy. He does have some skill at painting a picture of the commune and the scene there.

        There aren’t many writings by sannyasins or ex-sannyasins that describe living and working on the Ranch in a positive light, and the author also feels no loss of connection with Osho.

        However, I`ve only read forty-odd pages of the book, so I`ll see how it pans out.

        • Arpana says:

          I agree with your assessment, but reading a description of the bugging business from someone who was involved really makes the whole carry-on more bizarre and paranoid; and I am sure paranoia played a huge part in what was going on.

          Always seemed really distant until reading that.

          • Parmartha says:

            I fully agree that paranoia played a major part in Sheela’s psychology, and it was contagious.

            Those who were around her more closely say that the legal uppers and downers that her nurse prescribed and which she took a lot of would have exacerbated her paranoia.

            Running the whole worldwide Sannyas movement at the time, not just the Ranch, was clearly too much for a controlling maniacal housewife and she suffered unrecognised mental breakdown and paranoia as a result. She also suffered delusions, obviously, of grandeur.

          • swamishanti says:

            Yes, the whole bugging trip was pretty creepy, and it was Sheela’s idea to bomb the Rajneesh hotel, apparently, in order to increase more paranoia and create an ‘us and them’ feeling with the outside world.

            It is interesting reading about Sheela’s descent into madness from someone so closely involved with her inner circle.

            And who was that Julian guy? Apparently, he wiretapped Osho’s private quarters and Vivek caught him snooping around in the garden at 2am in the morning.

            Crazy stuff.

  11. Kavita says:

    “oral ejaculations” – wonder what typing on the computer keyboard would be – digitalized masturbation?!

  12. Parmartha says:

    Have now read 100 pages.
    I don’t accept, Kavita, that this was some kind of memoir for friends. etc.
    Rajesh actually wrote it in 2002. I think he wanted a wider audience, but maybe not sure of the legal ramifications. I think he lived still in USA in 2002.

    I get the sense its ruthless honesty was not for friends and family, but oddly enough for his fellow sannyasins and posterity. He has also bothered to write it well. Many sentences seem well honed to me, as if for something to be published.

    I don’t accept, Madhu, that Rajesh did not have what might be called a sexual neurosis. If you read about his very large collection of pornography, etc. still somehow he had kept on the Ranch – and when in NY his antics there – not that common I would say in Sannyas.

    His account is particularly valuable, as Shanti indicates. It recalls stuff with honesty from an insider who partook of these things. Such as myself were around, but did not even know what was going down.

    Where else in all the biographies, etc. of Osho and Sannyas can one hear of those two penultimate years before Sheela ‘left’ the commune from the inside? His participation in the homeless programme, his participation in the spy network, and his use by Sheela in research in preparing to poison the Dalles, etc.

    Further, as these things are still often ‘denied’ by devotees, the memoir has the great benefit of rebuttal beyond all reasonable doubt from an insider.

    • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

      “I don’t accept, Madhu, that Rajesh did not have what might be called a sexual neurosis.”

      I simply didn´t say that, Parmartha; it’s your interpretation of my words.

      I didn´t respond to your response (addressing me) yet, in which you clearly stated that women are abusing men as well – like as ´meal tickets provider´, that was how you put it as an example.
      For me, kind of foul play under the belt, so to say, but you surely may have reasons for that in your life, reasons I do not know and can not know.

      So, I just took it – like other stuff, to heart – and waited/let it be.

      However, I am with you, when you stated that abuse is happening both the ways.

      Madhu

    • samarpan says:

      “Where else in all the biographies, etc. of Osho and Sannyas can one hear of those two penultimate years before Sheela ‘left’ the commune from the inside?”

      Parmartha, you are right that Rajesh has provided insight into the inside of Rajneeshpuram. Max Brecher provides the inside story of those penultimate years from the ‘other’ inside, bringing to light the conspiracies against Rajneeshpuram being held behind closed doors in official ‘Edison’ offices of various governments. Fully documented. For example:

      “Notes taken at the September 26, 1984 behind closed doors meeting called by Frohnmayer for state and federal agencies testify to the intensity of Operation Serenity’s backup. “The Oregon Military Department reported to the meeting it had 2,000 Air Guard and 7,500 Army Guard troops ready to move if the governor declared a state of emergency.”

      Max Brecher, ‘A Passage to America: A Radically New Look at Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh and a Controversial American Commune (pdf edition, 2013)

      Of course, at the time, many of us did not know just how much state violence was being arrayed against the commune and how close that state violence came to being deployed against us. They named it “Operation Serenity”, as if an already serene Osho was destroying the domestic tranquillity of the United States of America.

      • shantam prem says:

        I think it is time disciples like Samarpan feel thankful that state machinery was of America and not India.

        In India, guru or no guru, there is no plea bargain. There are spiritual masters of hundreds of thousands of people who have not got bail even after two years.

        In a very fair way, master of someone is just another “that guru” for many others.

        • samarpan says:

          Shantam, if you are Black, Sikh, Muslim, etc. in the midst of ignorant and armed Americans, your life is at risk.

          I think you underestimate the level of violence the state is capable of in the USA against its own citizens. At the same time of Rajneeshpuram, the state attacked the MOVE commune (originally called the Christian Movement for Life) in West Philadelphia. Police dropped a bomb on a residential neighborhood, burning over 60 houses to the ground, leaving 11 dead — including five children.

          http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2015/05/18/407665820/why-did-we-forget-the-move-bombing

      • Parmartha says:

        Thanks for the contribution, Samarpan.

        One day, someone will write a full account of the 1983-=1985 that combines both.

        However. there is no chicken and egg situation here; had not the Sheela cabal started to do the criminal things they got up to, which were totally unjustifiable, the State authorities would have treated the Ranch no doubt as an eccentricity and a ‘little local difficulty’.

        • shantam prem says:

          Parmartha, is there still something missing in the saga of 1983-1985 which has not been written?

          Have you ever thought, without Sheela, without guns, without American intervention, what would have been the future of Rajneeshpuram after Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh´s demise?

          In Hindi there is saying, “Give the razor to a monkey and it is going to be dangerous.”

        • samarpan says:

          Chicken and egg? Maybe. I believe that even in the absence of any criminal or provocative behaviour there would have been problems. The zeitgeist of the USA at that time was so pro-evangelical Christian fundamentalist – and that went all the way to the top of the USA government with Ronald Reagan and AG Meese – that Osho could not be allowed to create a counter-cultural example of another way to live.

          Both Federal and State officials wanted Osho out of the country and were investigating him to find an excuse to deport him. The target was Osho, not sannyasins. They knew sannyasins would leave if Osho was forced to leave.

          Even if there had been model sannyasin behaviour, all completely legal, the commune was bound to become a target. Communes don’t have popular acceptance in the history of the ‘Yankee rugged individualist’ USA.

          Neo-Sannyas was simply incompatible with the traditional (repressed/violent/xenophobic) ‘American way of life.’

  13. Kavita says:

    When I read it, frankly it did give me an impression that the writer is giving a kind of a tour of the Ranch to an outsider. No doubt a good tour guide and good orientation skills, but not my cuppa.

    Actually, Parmartha, I have not come across any literature in detail about the Ranch, probably simply because I have not been interested in it due to my own reservations about it & that’s one reason I resisted reading this PDF for few days; & then I thought to myself, let me give it a try.

    This probably is the first time I read anything in such detail. In any case, I still have reservations about the whole Ranch episode, even though it may have been a better experiment if Osho was not Silent & if He didn’t give all the powers solely to Sheela. Anyway, nothing can be changed now.

  14. Parmartha says:

    Someone pointed out to me, Madhu, that you had shown concern about the legal note at the beginning of this memoir.

    I have been told that the executors of Rajesh’s estate are looking for a book publisher.

    I think it is worth publishing, even for its honesty alone, and hope someone approaches them.

    • Kavita says:

      Parmartha, I was just thinking, could this memoir be taken as a basis for psychological study: how intelligent/educated people are used by hardcore terrorists?!

      • Parmartha says:

        I think the emphasis has to be on “Educated”.

        There were many highly educated people on the Ranch with many skills between them, but whether they had ‘intelligence’ in its naked and courageous form? No.

        Clearly, Islamic terrorists have very skilled operators, especially computer-wise, etc, and propaganda skills to rival Goebbels. They also have logistical military skills, etc. but intelligence is much rarer, and they don’t have a shred of it.

        • Kavita says:

          Yes, the emphasis should be on education. The uneducated mostly as such have a very raw approach to deal with situations.

          I remember one video of UG which a Dutch friend had shared in the early 90s, where UG said on the lines of that every person born should be provided food, clothing, shelter & education by the State; this makes so much sense.

          Osho did make an effort, in his own way, which probably is beyond anyone’s capacity & ever known in Time.

  15. shantam prem says:

    After reading all the comments I am getting the impression as if cats are feeling astonished to read how juicy and refreshing it is to have a mouse for the breakfast!

    I mean, is there someone who has not the lingering taste of 69 plus meditation plus the Buddhafield energy created by Santa Claus-like generous master?

    The man who wrote the book is more honest than all other bald-headed gentlemen and pullover-knitting ladies.

    (MOD: EDITED POST)

  16. Kavita says:

    Honestly , some unjuicy rats think they are the same as the juicy mouse !

  17. Arpana says:

    Here’s a nice quote from the Rajesh book, which augments the credibility he has because he’s so honest with himself…

    “I watch winter turn to spring.
    The buds open to celebrate a new life cycle.
    But it’s dangerous for the tiny sprouts.
    There will be storms and droughts and winds and floods.
    The path of meditation-it’s dangerous too-a Pandora’s Box, releasing
    repressed fiends from the subconscious.
    It’s easy to see why people drop meditation right away when they
    initially try it.
    The antithesis of what you expect occurs.
    Your mind appears louder at first.
    The mind doesn’t actually become louder- you just tune into the fifty
    radio stations always broadcasting inside your head. Then if you finally
    achieve a minute of ecstacy, the mind recoils with a vengeance, spewing up
    additional garbage.
    Overall, you experience more chaos, not the peace you crave.
    But there’s no way around it. You’re bound to encounter your dark side,
    the Hitler within, on the way down to the silence.
    All the voices that comprise personality- God, they’re inconsistent.”

    Page 107 in the PDF.

    • Tan says:

      Thanks, Arps, for this nice quote, and thanks for the Book of Mirdad. XXX

      • Arpana says:

        Tan,
        Have you noticed he’s just as graphic, just as into minutiae, when he’s describing electronics, electronic equipment, as he is when he’s describing his sexual experiences. Haha!!!

        • Tan says:

          No, Arps, I haven’t, but, now that you said, it is true. Rajesh is a born engineer and he treats his sexual experience as an engineer too. Good observation! xxx

  18. Parmartha says:

    Someone asked about Julian.

    Swami Anand Julian (Julian James) – Charged with five federal counts of wiretap conspiracy; remains a fugitive.

    http://www.oregonlive.com/rajneesh/index.ssf/federal_prosecutions_of_rajnee.html

  19. Parmartha says:

    I found this also. According to the Washington Post at the time:
    Osho had said Sheela had the system installed with help from Swami Anand Julian, a British electronics wizard and former follower, who was among about a dozen who left with Sheela.

    • swamishanti says:

      Apparently, Osho’s room was not only bugged on the Ranch, but even back in Poona as well.

      “You know, Whiteboy, me and Jules…we bugged Bhagwan too.
      I put a mic inside his wooden alarm button.”
      “My God…”
      He beams, elated, snickering, “Jules said Bhagwan was bugged in Poona too.”
      “No way”, I say.
      “It’s true”.

      From chapter 9, p196.

      Later in this part of the story, Whiteboy also discovers, whilst being interrogated by the FBI, that when he was instructed to disable the electric fence around Bhagwan’s house, an attempt on Vivek’s life was made by someone in Sheela’s gang:

      “I discover that by disabling the fence around Bhagwan’s house on those eerie moonlit nights, I unknowingly opened the way for would-be assasins of Bhagwan’s personal companion, Vivek.

      They planned to drill up into her room from underneath the house, and inject her through a hole in the floorboards. Insanity.” (p.208)

      I wonder if Sheela has ever attempted to explain her rationale for this attempt on Vivek’s life?

  20. shantam prem says:

    Because Sannyas and sannyasnews will never be free from the shadows of Ms. Sheela, I think it is not inappropriate to look at the website of her work:
    http://www.matrusaden.ch/

    I was even thinking on behalf of Sannyasnews editor I can revisit her after the gap of 10,12 years. Due to mobile devices, this time, I can even record her interview.

    • swami anand anubodh says:

      I am not too sure that I would trust a self-confessed dishonest Sikh with my good name.

      • shantam prem says:

        Can I know you who you are, Swami Anand Anubodh? This is a 100% fake name used by some very dishonest human being. I have checked google.

        Other than few posts at Sannyasnews, there is no mention anywhere. There is no photo or any detail under this name. There is no one at facebook with the name Swami Anand Anubodh.

        I feel sorry for the readers of Sannyasnews who bear silently the venom and spit of people who are non-existing.

        MOD: SHANTAM, ANUBODH IS KNOWN AT SN, FROM MANY YEARS. THERE IS NO CASE TO ANSWER SO THE MATTER IS CLOSED. AND WE WON’T PUBLISH ANY FURTHER SIMILAR POSTS, PLEASE JUST STICK TO THE TOPICS UNDER DISCUSSION.

        • Arpana says:

          Shantam,
          You’re compensating for being called out for putting your prejudiced words into Osho’s mouth.

        • swami anand anubodh says:

          Parmartha,

          It is obviously a sign of Rajesh’s intelligence that he can express himself so well without resorting to the silly metaphor.

          I wonder how many other sannyasins have something to say – but sadly are not talented wordsmiths.

          I will assume you are aware of Ma Anand Poonam’s experiences at Rajneeshpuram, but for those who are not, and find Rajesh’s story compelling, here is a link to a very brief account from her – which may or may not add to the picture he has painted.

          http://www.claresoloway.com/2009/06/a-life-changing-moment/

          Poonam was my first point of contact with Bhagwan in 1975. I rate her very highly, and owe her much.

  21. Arpana says:

    When the Ranch gets discussed someone or other is always trying to understand why this happened; and it occurs to me, after reading this book, it’s to an enormous extent an accumulation of small cop-outs, an accumulation of small blind-eye turning. And I am sure there is a sociological name for this phenomenon, but I don’t recall what it is.

    • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

      Do we really need a ´name´for a social phenomenon how you called it, Arpana?

      We have a proverb here in Germany, I guess wherever you are native too. It goes like: If danger is named, it is banned.

      You know, the friends I met, when I first came to see the Master, I met without having had made apointments to meet there, it just happened. And those whom I was intimate with, we had in former times something in common.

      For example, knowing about what Wilhelm Reich had found out about the mass psychology of fascism, or his work on how ´Christ´ (how he sees it) is murdered, ever and ever again. Had read his ´Listen, Little Man`. There you can find lots of sociological ´names´and no theoretical bogus.

      However, name it – and that does not mean, it is banned. Understanding means for me the best immunization to copy/paste stuff that is a danger. And how is that for you?

      I am writing you this also because I really stumbled on your “Hahaha” in your response to Tan, when you elaborated Rajesh´s communicating skills of his sex as alongside his communicating his electronic engineering. Whatever you “Hahaha” means, I simply can´t get it. Made me freeze.

      But maybe ´analog´ people like me, struggling to understand, are the real aliens of nowadays?Or a dying species? Not being able to cope with digital humour? Of digital humour in action?

      Madhu

      • Arpana says:

        “It is helpful in the process of trying to understand something, to find the right words to describe the something. You do this all the time.”

        Being a perfectionist, Madhu, especially when your expectations involve everyone you meet, is a guarantee of misery. (And so many expectations, Madhu. So very many).

      • Arpana says:

        “I am writing you this also because I really stumbled on your “Hahaha” in your response to Tan, when you elaborated Rajesh´s communicating skills of his sex as alongside his communicating his electronic engineering. Whatever you “Hahaha” means, I simply can´t get it. Made me freeze.”

        Go within, Madhu.
        I do not feel responsible for your reaction.

  22. prem martyn says:

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    ——————————————
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    ‘Avoiding humongous pointless power trips, by joy in the Master’, by resident Santa Claus and Buddhist-Xmas fancy dress specialist, Santa Tzungpower Claus.

    Most ashram managerial-evil and guru incompetence, together with disciple-wish fulfilment. can be easily repelled by putting a statue of a bloke sitting cross-legged next to a candle with some incense. Obviously, the 1980s did not have enough of these, so as to prevent the collapse of a half-decent idea, but luckily you can order early for Buddhmas, whilst I mind your business, by buying online at PAYPALLYDOLLY.

    Just go to my handy website where you can now order a handy plastic doll, ‘The Dolly Lama’, which comes ready with 38 move-able joints, each one designed to end in a sitting position.

    “Fun for all the family” – Mr and Mrs D.Lama. Dharamsala

    “Better than sprouts” – Ms. Dolly Stokes, Neasden

    “Death to the infidels” – Saudi Arabian Minister for Dull, Booze-Less Xmas Parties: Sheikh Raytheon AK47 Bin Humvee Al BP-Shell Al Donald Trump-al Nutter.

    http://cache4.asset-cache.net/gc/554373963-close-up-of-buddhist-monk-dolls-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=5aCSq7QjoaI6%2BCXshWzxbpQvuxNbIDpT%2BLloWkWJGBd%2Fbr10KB1HAoh7Ms4Nj17U

  23. swamishanti says:

    “Slurp. Slurp.
    The woman panting.

    What am I hearing?

    Wetness and friction.

    Louder slurping.

    Slap! Slap!

    “Oh, God! Oh yeah!”

    Slurp! Slurp!

    Slap! Slap!

    “Oh yeah! Oh! Oh!”

    What is going on here?

    With the slapping and the slurping and the oh-yeah’s all happening at
    once, I’m having fun trying to envision the actual configuration of the act. ”

    Wait a minute!- that wasn’t the quote I was looking for.
    Ah, here it is, p201:

    “A long flatbed truck rumbles by.

    Tied down under tarpaulins, hidden cargo forms irregular shapes.

    Priya motions at the truck, says half-jokingly, “There goes another load
    of dead cows being smuggled off the ranch. Did you hear? Sheela’s gang poisoned
    the cows that supply milk to Bhagwan’s house. This is turning absolutely

    medieval.”

    So this part of Rajesh’s story brings up the question again:

    Was Sheela’s group trying to kill  Osho with poisons?

    “My own MILK was being poisoned slowly every day. And only now the poor sannyasin who looks after the cows has opened his mouth, that “Every night Puja used to come to mix something. I was not aware that this is poison. I thought it is something herbal, must be for your health.” Certainly it was for my health! ”
    The Last Testament, Vol. 3/4

    “Just today my mother came to see me….
    And this is the ugliest thing of all. She has done many ugly things. Laxmi had operations, major operations, in which her ovaries are removed, and some other parts of the stomach are removed. And she was sick few days before. She was hospitalized. Since then she started getting better. She came back to her place, and she was feeling very good and recovering.
    Last day, when Sheela left, just one hour before, Prateeksha, Sheela’s sister, came with a glass of juice. And she had never come, all this time Laxmi has been here, Prateeksha had never come even to see her. And she drank the juice, and immediately became badly sick. And she is already in a dying position.
    Now to poison her? They must have thought that to leave Laxmi alive is dangerous, because as far as coming from India is concerned, they have committed many crimes. But they thought because they are never coming back, so who cares? Just once they are out of the country, and governments and bureaucracies take time to find out… But Laxmi knows everything, so she may be dangerous. It is better to finish her.
    It seems killing became to them just an ordinary thing. Nothing even to think about. Very casually.”

    Last Testament

    “When Sheela left, in her room, we found—the police has taken all the evidences—books on poison. Now what she has to do with books on poison? How to murder people, how to make bombs…. And they have found chemicals and other elements which are needed to make bombs. And the book on the poisons has all kinds of poisons described, and only one poison is underlined—that is the poison that my physician was continuously telling that that is the only poison that is undetectable—and it is in the description of the poison, that it is undetectable. It will not kill the person, but it will go on weakening him.
    You go on giving…within six months, the person will die a natural death. You cannot be caught because the poison is undetectable. And the person will not die immediately—suddenly—so nobody can suspect; he will simply go on becoming weaker and one day he will die. You have just to go on giving at certain periods. And it can be given in food, it can be given in tea, in coffee, it can be injected, it can be given in water…”

    Last testament

    • Arpana says:

      Seen from here, looking back, seems worse than at the time. Was all a bit of dream then. The impact is greater because he’s just pretty much reporting what he remembers. He’s obviously not trying to make anything look better or worse.

    • Parmartha says:

      Thanks, Shanti.

      The story around Osho’s milk is not widely known, and rarely referred to. It needs more repeating, as it offers an alternative explanation to the apparent poisoning of Osho by thallium.

      If the story about Laxmi is true, then I would assume that Sheela wanted to get rid of her because she would have been an obvious choice for reinstatement to her old position, especially as unlike Sheela she did a very good job between 1971 and 81.

  24. Kavita says:

    “Recently it was put in me to look at the relationship between O.B. and Existence, and the curiosity is that O.B. doesn’t care at all. One does not care whether one exists or not, does not care a bit about Existence or its creator, not even a thank you. Gratitude or understanding are not available. The only understanding one might have is here in the illusion, and it is not your understanding.”

    Jake, after you put this up here I tried to figure out about O.B & Existence and soon enough I stumbled upon one more inquiry: could the source of both these be the same (‘illusion’)?!

  25. prem martyn says:

    Thanks for the quotes, SS.

    Never seen those before…bloody awful, murderous mess ..the facts speak for themselves.
    One major thing though:
    This poison thing runs as a theme from his, Osho’s, account of on-Ranch poisonings by the gang to his repeated allegations of being poisoned by nefarious ‘other’ State forces in prison with the same secret poison.

    That the same occurs between two sets of separate saboteurs looks, at face value, highly strange, even improbable; one or other with supporting facts, well, ok, but not both from the same script???

    How much of Alice was in Wonderland?

    Great lesson about power, community, vision, altered states, love and the consequences. Not sure what it is though…

    Although I like Jake’s use of language to address and yet remove inferences across the board, leaving the slate both clean and implicated at the same time.

    I’m more cack-handed in my elliptical attempts at including perspectives, but the conclusions to this life lived courageously are definitely not linear – despite being bloody obvious and hugely detrimental, in clear retrospect, over the issues and deductions for living that these events and comprehending oneself raise.

    • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

      “How much of Alice was (is?) in Wonderland?”

      Prem Martyn,

      More than guessing I´d say none (of Alice) is in it from the first English novel (1865) by Lutwidge Dodgson.

      A little bit more, I guess, in the first world-famous English novel then, by Lewis Corroll (1871), especially when we look at the cv of the author a little bit deeper; which I did today.

      A growing more of it may then be in the movie script of that ‘Dark Fantasy’ story written by Linda Woolverton, being realized then (2010) by Tim Burton (as the director and in W. Disney Productions). Kind of Gothic flavour then, it is said…

      As times goes by we then meet the ´Alice in Wonderland Syndrome´.

      It is triggered also when people are drugged, by acid or other chemical stuff (by free will or by no free will at all)
      or when being in some torture situation (connected with psychological torture as well as the nowadays abundant possibilities of street stalking/street theatre work as terror (for the target) etc. etc.

      Just to harm an individual you want to get rid of, actions of this kind at any possible mentioned level, with the goal that the harm may be irreversible. Sometimes also a very dysfunctional family or a very dysfunctional working-team or business situation will also ‘do the trick’.

      What else I could research, to come now to the time of 2010-2015, is that the W. Disney Production brought it out (the Alice story) as a video game for gamer and gamer-teams, and it is said this particular game has been a fabulous business success since it came out.

      Well then, we reach superficially contemporary business times of some ‘leela-adepts’, such gamers to whom – and there you are more than quite right, Prem Martyn – it would be high time to practise showing up with the ´stinky-finger´! (I know though, that in a situation of isolation, this more reactive style will not be enough and will also be counter-productive, but alas, it needs to be named).

      You may be asking, friends here in the UK chat, why I am going so deep in that ´Alice’ matter?

      It’s because many of us are living with daily doses on a playground flooded with information, let alone this tiny little chat dedicated to Sannyas here. So, to find out where is poison, sometimes deliberately offered, sometimes just happening by immaturity – sometimes with good wishes altogether – is indeed such a big challenge.

      And how to meet you as friends, as fellow-travellers, is a need for me when posting, as I am not a ´machine’, a robot. And some of you have a place in my heart by now.

      There are topics like these, where, as I feel it, real friends are needed. To cross some ´floods´ and build a bridge (also a mental bridge sometimes is needed), what else can we do here?

      And when I sit here, writing, and sometimes wish you were here and we could have a tea together with nice healthy spices, I mean it, but very rarely put it out. But now.

      Madhu

  26. swamishanti says:

    “This poison thing runs as a theme from his, Osho’s, account of on-Ranch poisonings by the gang to his repeated allegations of being poisoned by nefarious ‘other’ State forces in prison with the same secret poison.

    That the same occurs between two sets of separate saboteurs looks, at face value, highly strange, even improbable; one or other with supporting facts, well, ok, but not both from the same script??? ”

    Well, Osho had good reason to believe that Sheela`s crew had poisoned him with thallium, as he states in the quote, the Jesus Grove group were aware of the slow-acting effects of thallium and some sannyasin had informed him that Puja had been feeding something to the cow that was reserved for his milk, every day – this is the same Puja that used to give poisonous drinks to people on the Ranch. (As well as the Dalles poisonings and the attempted murder of Devaraj and Vivek).

    However, he also had good reason to believe that he had been poisoned whilst he was in custody – being signed in under the false name, `David Washington` (he signed with his own signature, but they tippexed it out and wrote over it “David Washington”).

    Thallium does have a history of being used by the CIA in the eighties, to get rid of underesirables.

    So, there are several different possibilities:

    1) Osho was poisoned with a slow-acting poison whilst on the Ranch.

    2) Osho was then poisoned again, or irradiated, whilst incarcerated – or perhaps this did not happen at all? Maybe he was just suspicious, or did he suspect that Sheela, or someone in her group, was somehow involved with the US government? Perhaps Osho suspected that Sheela`s group were responsible for the poisoning, but out of compassion for Sheela he blamed the poisoning solely on the US government.

    3) Or perhaps he really wasn`t sure what exactly had happened. However, I believe some of his last words were, that “he had been poisoned by the Christian fundamentalists in the United States government.”

  27. Arpana says:

    Q: AS FAR AS THE COMMUNE THEN, DOESN’T YOUR CHOICE OF SHEELA AS THE DAY-TO-DAY LEADER, IN LIGHT OF HER RECENT ACTIONS, REFLECT POORLY ON YOUR CAPABILITY AS A JUDGE OF CHARACTER, AND ULTIMATELY HURT YOUR CREDIBILITY WITH YOUR FOLLOWERS?

    http://justpaste.it/Sheelaandthecommune

    • satyadeva says:

      Sorry, I don’t accept this explanation as the whole story, as it makes no mention of how Sheela related so abrasively, so disastrously to the outside world, a significant factor in alienating many who otherwise might have either been neutral or even supporters of the project, perhaps including the local communities.

      And if by this approach she was ‘merely following his orders’ then he bears even greater responsibility.

      Besides, appointing a not particularly bright Indian to deal with redneck America and beyond was asking for trouble.

      No, Osho meant well, of course, but his lack of experience of the West meant that he was like a fish out of water, in practical socio-political terms, over there.