(Editorial context)
The English Sunday Observer, a newspaper with what is called a “good” reputation, published a front cover story about Tim Guest (previously Yogesh) a couple of weeks ago. (March 28th). In the article Osho and his movement were derided in a scurrilous and misinformed way. A number of sannyasins took the time to reply, but nothing was published, and nothing acknowledged. We ourselves therefore publish Rashid’s reply to the article here which pins down the article for a number of falsities.
To the Editor, The Observer
Who needs to practice character assassination? Someone who feels wounded? Someone who feels threatened? Your writer Elizabeth Day had so many slurs and untruths in her cover story last week that perhaps she need to ask herself some questions.
Ms. Day makes her bedrock position clear when she belittles as “an escape” from “the very isolating pressures of capitalism” Tim Guest’s work as a writer on virtual communities and his mother Anne’s decision to take sannyas. Also she calls an interviewee “oddly out of kilter” for not adjusting to life outside the communes when he finds people “very guarded.” This prejudice is backed by lies: the boy did not hang himself: the coroner found misadventure: Osho did not give sermons from a dentist’s chair under nitrous oxide: he did not own any Rolls Royces or even have money of his own, nor was he an ascetic. She peppers her “story” with loaded cliché words like “bizarre ashram, strange commune, sinister, warped, sullied reality, etc”.
Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh also known as Osho is acknowledged by many as one of the most inspiring, insightful and enriching sages of recent times. In the seventies and eighties he was offering workable solutions to the flaws in our cultural, political, educational, environmental and religious practices that were then impending, and are now present, crises.
We all have a right, even a duty to be sceptical. Ms Day quotes a number of people saying that Tim Guest “wasn’t always quite honest” around drugs. Yet she takes his book at face value. What about researching a bit deeper? Has she checked what Osho actually said and did? Also, how about paying attention to what Tim Guest told his mother; “that he felt lucky to have had that kind of upbringing.”
I am in touch with many children, including my own, who were in the communes and have made for themselves bright and successful careers in the world. To generalise from the particular of one unhappy life in order to belittle thousands and titillate other thousands is, it seems to me, poor journalism and dishonours the Observer.
Yours Sincerely
Rashid Maxwell
It’s kind of interesting who ends up writing about osho and sanyas (I mean journalists), huh karma for them. You get atension with osho and his so called scandals..also, because sanyas is about feelings in your story also. So I can understand it’s a very lucrative subject for any one in media. I must say Keerti has done really good job in India. Actually western media cannot touch osho any more because of his status in India.
My suggestion is with negative publicity to correct the clear untrue facts without emotional reaction, admit the wrong doings and misbehaviour (of sanyas) share the positive stories without over doing it and just enjoying people’s reactions. Sanyas is making all of us more interesting to “normal” people,, which is actually really fanny.
With Tim’s story, I must say his mother somehow failed combining sanyas and normal life, and ended up doing it publically. Also boath of them were confusing personal responsibility of their own choices in life. My parents were left wing and I went to steiner school, so I learned from day one to take a position from minority and yet play in the world. Not easy, still. Tim learned to be open and vulnerable, but contradictions were too big. It’s an art to learn for a lifetime.
Pls let’s talk about something else but OFI. I am still fan of Amrito:D
I saw Amrito being very busy with constructions at New Year, so I just might go and ask some tips with that over a cappuccino with him.
Shame on the English Sunday Observer. Distraction, Distortion, Disinformation ,Deception, lots of ways to lie and the Observer uses them without remorse. Obvious that the Observer is bent towards negativity, instead of an unbiased observation of the facts. IMV Elizabeth Day and the Editor of the Observer must resign from their positions.
Shantam Star here is the answer to you question of few tips for bolstering the much needed resort security. I have heard the Jayesh was personally supervising the revamping of the sport and recreational area. Perhaps Freschee is referring to Amrito also being personally involved with this construction project.
In the months prior to this, very serious security information regarding a possible terrorist threat was passed on to resort management. I am assuming the correspondence between the Pune police and resort management included the following. It included information about David Headley, a man who has now pleaded guilty to the surveillance part of the Mumbai siege and massacre. He had also visited the Osho resort a number of times in recent years. It was also reported that a video of the Osho resort was shown to a Karachi based cell of militants.
So here is the startling answer to your question. If the physical border of the resort is primarily low or poorly fenced, then fix it! It need not require anything other than a little common sense. Hang on a second, that would be a construction project, and that would do three things. It would firstly be a considerable financial investment. Secondly it would provide no direct return on investment. Finally, it would reduce the risk of harm to resort visitors. Does this ring any bells with the unwillingness to invest anything into improving the state of the water treatment systems?
Freschee, when you have you cuppa with your beloved Doc, could you please ask him about the decision making process in prioritising alternative choices for competing projects.
Shantam Star, you have stubbornly conceded at least that the threat of terrorism is still current. I would say the factors in place that attracted this threat are still on there course, and so the threat is still increasing.
Do you think that there will be any improvement in the physical integrity of the resorts perimeter any time soon?
Yes maybe if enough people have common sense and read information like on SannyasNews such that the management will feel sufficient pressure to force a little change. Then what happens? Simply a reverting back to the old ways again. A constant and tiring battle. On top of that we not only have the right wing materialistic fascists that are actually engaging in a seriously questionable strategic direction. We also have a collective of left wing communists that are willing to ignore the fundamental problems because they want to project the good image of their beloved Master. So funny that Osho himself likely intentionally created much of his unpopular façade. So funny it is that after he is gone the collective is engaged in protecting him by covering up the criminality within the current movement.
Is there anything in between the two extremes? I am starting to wonder.
It is possible to ignore the water through different rationalizations. I did not think it possible, but the Osho movement has proved me wrong. You can ignore many other things, but this threat of terrorism is one that simply cannot be ignored. That is why Shantam Star asked me for a few tips. It is too big and obvious. It simply cannot be ignored. My reasoning is the horrific outcome of a major terrorist attack. Surely such a grave outcome could not be ignored. As well, the investigators would surely scrutinize the resort in the utmost detail if an attack actually occurred. Still it seems I am being proved wrong.
Where’s Sadhana when you need her? How many tens of thousands of people visited the resort this high season. Or was that hundreds of thousands? How many millions may come into the fold into the years to come?
In the months prior to the high season build up, the resort was getting some pretty serious information from the police regarding the threat of terrorism. Freschee you even probably had a cuppa with Headley at GB when you were in town. Did you hear anything from your beloved Doc about the serious threat of terrorism? Was he so kind as to give you a snippet after a love making session? I don’t suppose he was.
So how’s about you are hanging out at the new sports gymnasium, with not even the slightest inkling of terrorism as a potential threat, and then one of Headley’s friends, armed with a machine gun and grenades, slips over the fence beside the tennis courts. I suppose you would be a little surprised. The funny thing is that if you had the inside information and a little bit of common sense, it would not be a surprise at all. The surprise would be if you were crazy enough to visit the place at all.
And now Freschee you speak of having a delightful little cuppa with your beloved Doc. Are you nuts? Ahh, no you are not, you are just blindly in love with the Doc. In the same way, many so-called devotional type Osho characters are blindly in love with Osho. They refuse to see the obvious out of a blind devotional love. This is the essential nature of religious extremism, be it from the left or right of the political divide.
Welcome to reality. This type of blind love is associated with deep unconsciousness. The only essential message from Osho was awareness. In fact all the strategies from left, right, and out of the park, are of no meaning other than to direct you into more and more awareness. Do you not see the absurd hypocrisy? How deep is the love of a hypocrite?
Freschee enjoy your cuppa, and just a little advice if you don’t mind. Don’t ask any important questions of the Doc else your illusion of him will be shattered. The same goes for all the unconscious Osho devotional hypocrites.
Ahhh now I get it. You guys are too fanny. If Headley’s mates jump over the fence they are gonna to be gobsmacked by the new sports facilities. Then you’re gonna say how’s about a game of Zennis.
The same goes if they sneak into the Auditorium during White-Robe. They will be hit by the beauty and shall sit down legs crossed and ogle the video discourse from Osho.
Visionary stuff!!! Draw in the terrorists with your cheap image of neo-Western post-individualist Osho zen decadence. Then convert them into good Osho disciples. That way you save the world from Islamic extremism and increase your market share at the same time.
You guys are too fanny. Why didn’t you share the secret with me and save me the fun of working it all out.
International terror threat keeps Resort on high alert.
Today the elite guard of OIFwere seen mustering around a hot bowl of miso soup ready for the days manoeuvres.
Following reports that the Bangas and Masht terror group had identified hugging vegetarian westerners as an easy target the resort was put on high alert.
Sergeant Amafunguy spokesperson of the elite Sofa So Good squadron of beady-eyed elite meditators announced
‘ Our main plan for fellow meditators is very simple, when they go in , we wont let them out again if they have done anything unpleasant or rascally.That way they will be forced to drink from the poison wells of the oasis , i mean the resort until they are driven mad by the heat and flies.. Also we have decided to charge people when they come out instead of when they go in as it is well known that crime doesnt pay , and therefore we will catch them red handed.
A video from the Bangas and Masht ad promotions agency confirms what police believe was a coded message.. It included Lulu’s 1967 Eurovision song contest hit ‘My Heart Goes BOOm banga bang’ and is available on you tube…or You gas bottle…as the tubes are known locally….
The resort in trying to calm public confidence has removed itself from the global positioning system of google maps, so that no-one can zoom in on anyone spacing out. …
Police remain confident….(after watching the self esteem training neo osho Police Academy 7 video).
A local undercover policeman working as a waiter in the Blue Diamond said..we have recieved some useful tips.
Meanwhile the management were unavailable for comment on the recent Observer article that suggested Osho was responsible for everything and should be immediately arrested.
Newspapers have accused Distict Commisioner of Religious Surveiilance ( the NTIB or Nipping trouble in the Bud ) Mr Keffir Lathi of expressly ignoring the brewing evidence.
Commissioner Latte noted, ‘ We have never seen anything like this before, and I will not break with this fine tradition by looking now,’
THe Observer newspaper noted that some toilets at the Resort had no toilet paper as punishment for bad meditators who were forced to used high pressure jets of water instead until they ‘surrendered.’
HI EVERYONE,
THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT SITE IS GREAT AND HAVE NICE GOSSIPS
. BELOVED, GOSSIPS ARE GOOD, BUT THEY ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE ANYTHING IN PUNE AND YOU WILL CONTINUE TO SEE JAYESH , AMIRTO DISTROYING THE PLACE DAY BY DAY
I HAVE ADVICE , STOP GOSSIPING LESS AND LESS AND TRY TO APROACH MEMBERS IN PERSON AND ASK THEM REAL QUESTION. AND SHOW THEM YOUR LOVE FOR OSHO AND HIS COMMUNE ON INDIVIDUAL LEVEL.
I HAVE SEEN LOTS OF EFFORTS BY SANNYASINS, BUT ALL FAILED TO BRING GOOD CHANGE , NOW IT IS REALLY TIME TO APPROCHED AND TALK TO MANAGEMENT DIRECTLY. I HAVE THEIR TEL, NUMBERS, EMAILS, ADDRESSES AND WHEREABOUT. FEEL FREE TO ASK ME . IMAGINE HUNDREDS OF PHONE CALL, EMAILS, AND SANYASINS TRYING TO REACH THOSE FEW CUNNING DECETROS OF COMMUNE…. IT WILL BE REAL NICE AND FUN , AND SOMETHING MIGHT CHANGE…….IF WE CONTINUE IN OLD TRADITIONAL WAY..THINGHS WILL GO FROM BAD TO WROST
LOVE
PS. CONTACT ME HERE ON THIS SITE AND I WILL PROVIDE YOU THEIR NAME. IF YOU WANT TO START WITH YOGENDRA , HE IS AVAILABLE ON FACE BOOK ALL THE TIME. HE IS NICE GUY, AND WILL TRY TO ANSWER YOUR BURNING QUESTION.
martyn, what the fuck is wrong with you …..what are you talking about in your last posting……please look and read twice before wasting my valueable time , you idoit
If somebody is doing a story about osho or sanyas he or she is coming to osho from backdoor. People are just afraid to approach openly. After reading her article she is clearly touched by Tim’s openness and vulnerability – the qualities he most probably got from living the communal life. Then she chooses to have a paranoia approach with osho and sanyas, which tells about big fear.
I do not think we should fight with these people, but try to see if it would be possible to make a connection. Keerti did really good work in India; nobody is connecting with media in the west like that. It’s the same like very few are doing scientific work about meditation. I think that is also a reason why sanyas stays in pheriferia and what we do look wired to other people. Perhaps it will come with time.
I remember I had to explain Steiner School to people all the time and people were measuring it with how well students would perform latter and there is still big paranoia about it. If anything negative happened to some students it was SURELY because of Steiner School.
And you cannot necessarily change that. But I happen to know it got better when the schools invited normal school authorities in, got connected with neighbours etc. Of course osho is a bit harder to take:D
The basic thing to be understood about newspapers, even so-called respectable ones like the Observer, is that they not only report news but also create it. If you understand that you will not be disturbed by inaccurate reporting.
Osho and the resort no longer represent a news phenomena that is ‘Hot’. Therefore reporters have to beef up reports with a bit of controversy.
Osho himself enjoyed even ‘bad’ publicity, because it served his purposes well…to get noticed. I don’t think anyone who is genuinly interested in the resort will be put off by a negative article in a newspaper. The reason for this is that word of mouth is still the news channel most off us tune into and trust more than a media that is run by right winger conservatives like Rupert Murdoch.
Yes I agree with Lokesh. These days there are ecological communities, Krisna Murti communities, other meditation communities…all these yoga teachers at fitness halls have their masters…
resort can look even too commercial for some:D so actually OFI with that luxury place is in a way making it easier for the rest us not to look so wired for normal people. There is so much fear in normal people to be different….
NewsFlash from Flash the Fresch
Hey ya all outsiders come and have a nice open chatta over a cuppa of chaia with ussa.
Unfortunately Swami Headley can’t make it to the GB for a cuppa because it’s blown up. Oh yeah, and cause he his in jail for being a naughty Swami.
Come anyhow and discuss openly with our friends Jagged Jayesh, Aimless Amrito, Slipstream Sudheer, Dynamite Dhyanesh, and many others. They are all really friendly, always approachable, terribly honest, mostly drunk, and will disappear onto the first airline out of the place if you cough too loudly.
By the way, I cannot reveal my true identity because of nutters amongst ussa.
Luvva
Frescha
I do not think she would ever dare to come here to discuss it…well, what a prison life.
however, if you want to be so aggressive like detective, why would anybody bother…
I am being honest. There are serious questions about the conduct of the resort in recent times. No answers are forthcoming. Why do you think that is? How about you explain to me and the Observer what the resort did in response to the news it received from the police late last year, what it did immediately after the GB blast, and what it is now doing, to protect people that visit the resort. This needs answering and is being avoided. Why is that? Surely there are simple answers? How about you give Amrito a call right now, have your little chat, and give us some feedback.
How about for you seeing your self with obsessive behaviour with OFI. Was it that you did not get the attention of your own father? You said everything already, can you move on?
This is the real world not some la la therapy land.
Ask the people that suffered life long injuries from the GB blast to move on and get over it.
Why don’t you tell them that it was their fathers fault.
I do not feel you would be coming from the position of compassion.. perhaps it would help you to do some la la therpy to over come your obsession..
Our OSho” was a genious, we all with good education; why they write so bad about us.
Our Osho was a visionary born before time, we are His intelligently people to carry forward this vision, why they treat us so bad.
World is running and indulging in trivia, we are meditating for divinity; why the press cann´t see this.
They have the sinister motive, we are beyond accountabilty.
WHy?
Your ideas about my personal psychological issues have nothing to do with the issue at hand. Even if I have said everything already, then presumably it must therefore be time to hear a reasonable response.
If everything appears to be running smoothly than the secretive, no comment mentality of the leadership is a concern, but at least workable. Unfortunately the response to the terrorist threat appears deeply lacking. To accuse me of lacking in compassion when the resorts response appears to be anything but compassionate is a little contradictory.
I shouldn’t think it would help me much if, while I was being dehypnotised by your beloved Doc for my obsessive compulsive behaviour disorder, someone walked in and blew me up.
Shantam have you been Laden lately?
Detective, you said everything already and we have your contact if we want to continue your discussion. Can we talk about something else now?
Recently, One long time Ma went for breast cancer surgery in the Inlaks hospital, other side of the ashram complex.
Before the anesthesist puts the mask, she reminds the doctor,” please don´t forget cancer is on the right side, and not on the left.”
Abhay, the detective, you need to be reminded too.
OK Fresch let’s talk about your psychological problems instead of mine shall we. The following is not intended to be an attack, but rather simply the truth of things as I see it. What else to do?
You have a very powerful image of Amrito and Osho as symbols of your ‘father’ in your mind. You love them as you would your ideal male archetype. The resort is an extension of them and so it is also of deep importance to you. This is an image that you want to protect at all costs.
If someone says something that looks like it is criticising this image, then you will defend the image at all costs. The problem is that this is simply a powerful image of an ideal in your mind. You have a strong bond or connection with Amrito, with Osho, and with the resort. This has helped create the image. The problem is that because you desire or long to melt with your ideal, this very desire transforms the image into something that becomes out of touch with the reality that created it. You desire to melt with a father figure, and for sure losing your dad when you were young means that this desire runs very deep.
The deep desire is the primary property of your image. The desire feeds the image and makes it look ever so heavenly beautiful. You will no doubt have a physical image of Osho, of Amrito, and of the resort that is a powerful mind projection fuelled by this desire. Once the desire drops the image loses its magic in a strange way. Amrito will look quite ordinary then, and you will just think he is not so special anymore. Still, once you see Amrito as he is and the resort as it is, they will be simply a reflection in your awareness not a seemingly endless desire in your mind. Yes your ideas about certain things will lose their gloss, but these objects will no longer have any power over you, and you will have gained your silent centre.
The pattern of excessive mental projection out of desire is like an over-ride in the mind. The mind is no longer available to think about other things. Even to consider that your beautiful mental image may have a few blemishes is inconceivable because it is so precious. The confusion is that it is only precious because you desire it to be precious. This is why they say vipassana is to see things clearly or to see things as they are. The desire fed mental imagine that we spend our whole life viewing and protecting is a mental fiction.
There are some various serious questions about the conduct of the management at the resort. When I say this you do not believe me. You say that I am on my own mental trip and I am here on SannyasNews just doing a little catharsis. The reason why you say this is because you need to defend your precious image. You view what I am saying as a threat to this image. Yet, you do not actually have a mental understanding of the content of what I am saying. There is a little program in your mind that runs beneath the surface of your mind as your read what I am writing here. The little program says essentially that I am on a mental trip and need a little therapy. Because this program is running, and because your mental energy is pouring into your precious image of Osho, Amrito, and the resort, there is no space to actually process what I am writing. Certainly there is no space to actually gather the basic facts that are available, and process them into a rational understanding.
Shantam is doing the same when he is making light of the terrorist issue, and refusing to consider that Jayesh and Amrito and others may be seriously dysfunctional at a practical managerial level. He has move a little in his understanding and let go of a little of his precious image (imagination) of Osho. This is also evident in his sardonic little post above.
We cannot travel inwards if the outer world is always demanding our attention. Every human being has a built in survival function. If that function is activated then the energy is going out. That is why doing a vipassana retreat in a space that does not feel safe is a contradiction. As you sit silently the reality that the place is not safe will keep entering your mind. In this way you will not be able to meditate. It is natural that this be the case, but it is not much good if you are going to a meditation resort.
Safe Travels
Shantam your position is that cancer is on right side and not on right side.
My position, my diagnose is very clear and consistent, and it will remain as long as the symptoms stay in the same position.
I have no doubt about the practical functioning of the people there. Water, food, hygiene, bed sheets, bed covers, police, security, dealing with law and lawyers and with all kind of wheelers and dealers.
ANd to develop these qualities you don´t need to go to Howard and MIT what to say about at the feet of the Master; these people call master of the masters.
The lack of emotional sensitivity and arrogance to be the only one at the side of dying Master; because they earned this because of devotion and capabilities- is the root cause of the decline of OSHO MOVEMENT.
And then there are common sannyasins, the meditators who are not clear about the imprints of the past religious experiences and the whirlpool of Osho´s words and deeds.
They are like a 5 years old who cannot figure out clearly whether the man who was kissing Mama is a daddy or a uncle!
And it is clear that Jayesh and Amrito need to accomodate those Sannayins in the decison making body who are not willing to toe ” their interpttaion of Osho.”
They may not take the old people back, but new people who are independent and visionary enough to contradict their functioning.
This will make the perfect arch.
They represent only Half Osho. and as it is said in many proverbs from many countries. Half truth is worst than the complete truth.
IF they are inflexible and fixed in their opinion, then surgery is the only solution but there is no provision to start the impeachment proceddings against the pope.
To built a strong public opinion is one of the possibilty.
There opponents in Delhi has the media, news magazine and connections, but seems like they are happy to use Osho´s words freely, Goal seems to be achieved.
Half Truth is worst than the complete Lie.
Resort to be renamed Shock !
PUNE 2010
In a shock move today the resort was renamed OSHVITZ
,complete with new security scanners and lie detectors available under the powerfully searching seeking lights of the revamped front gate.
Questions used to detect liars and frauds and suspects include choosing the correct reply from the following
Hey
Really
Oh wow
Thats amazing
Farr out
Thats so beautiful
Just allow it
Thats your projection
I feel really vulnerable
Im in process
I dont belong to you
Who said we are in a relationship?
Im just following my feelings
The Oshvitz management said that giving the right response was always a sign of being a real sannyassin and helped everyone feel secure.
Tantra groups are also being revamped so that whilst your partner is going in , you are going out…and looking at security issues.
There will now be a brief but follow up security group called ‘Talk to the Hand’ which includes consuming vast amounts of double cornets at the Oshvitz I Scream Parlour near the main CCTV compound in a further boost to help all sincere seekers find comfort from the perils of seeking too quickly and earnestly (without watching their arse first) .
Rashid has written-
in the seventies and eighties he(Osho) was offering workable solutions to the flaws in our cultural, political, educational, environmental and religious practices that were then impending, and are now present, crises.
As i can remember, Rashid writes regularly for Osho World.
If he submits his article for Osho Times web magazine, will it get the due space?
Most probably not?
Even though writers at both the magazines write similar contents, Osho´s quotations used freely as the missiles against the bad ugly spiritually under developed world. The root cause of perennial decline in human consciousness is because of old religions and beliefs and Osho therefore His people have the capabilities to provide solutions for e better world, new humanity etc.
WILL SOMEONE IN THE STAFF AT DERMATOLOGIST CLINIC WILL DARE TO SAY; “CHIEF DOCTOR`S ARMPITS STINK BADLY”.
Staff at the Observer realised their mistake on getting hate mail from lovers of truth.
Further love bomb attacks are planned from the South Finchley Osho retirement home where a symposium on sitting( or lying) down in the truth is being held. Followed by a complete and total fast until lunchtime in protest at the medias vindictive witch hunts of stories that are past their sell by dates.
Actually it starts to be boring to talk about OFI or Amrito. I do not know about you, but I am interested in other thins in life also. Can we discus something else? This is not your personal blog, Detective, even it starts to look like one. Go for a walk or anything…pls not around the resort.
(Osho) was offering workable solutions to the flaws in our cultural, political, educational, environmental and religious practices that were then impending, and are now present, crises….
Very very few people dared to take sannyas and allowed Osho to work on them.
This small commnunity must accept this adventurous responibility to work on those workable soulutions, which Osho was offering.
If others don´t listen it is fine, we MUST LISTEN AND IMPLEMENT.
In me atleast, the heart is always saying, OSho´s people can be the front door for the new world…Just we need to open the numbered lock and if cannot than no harm to cut this lock.
Shantam , have yu been reading Tagore before bed times ?
I remember the Hypnotic Bhagwan Hindi lectures where i understood nothing…. are u carrying on that mystery school tradition…..
ps hows the vegetarian diet ? and anyway who is shantam if u find him please write yur answer on a stamp and mail it to :
Sannyas Salvation Army
Allelujah Road
No surrender Lane
Lonely planet Heights
Asram Osho Okay yes Resort No
Post Office
India
help i’m trapped in Blogland and have no more credits to escape from the Castle of Seekers….but my girlfriend is chained up (mmmm, nice ) in the dungeon of Tan-tra…guys I need more credits to buy some ammo and shoot my load off to save her
Looks like only Rashid and the combined strengths of Fresch ,Detective and Shantam can help me now…….I need your help guys otherwise my time will run out and Ill have to go back to level 4…..guys come on yu guys hey swap u some frustration for insight badges for your thoughts ….
guys???
gals?
pals???
fellow seekers???
Osho impersonators?
awwwww guysssssss…….
back to level 1 !!!!! no wayyyyyy
Ring the Observer on their hotline…..oh hello yes… I just like to say that I spent my Life in Orange and it was really quite jolly.thank you Goodbye..
Good martyn, I really liked that one…I might even go veggie for your post…
How can we convert and save the journalists of the world?
Put lsd in their water supply…..like the men who stare at goats..u know the film?
I can hear it now…’ thats some shit in the water, man..’.
…mmm…hang on i think the resort got there first…..!
My next book will be; Blame it on others; authority figures, lovers, friends, osho, groups, media etc. – My right to stay stuck, know better and not look at my self. I will give detailed instructions from my own experience how to come side ways, if that does not work shoot back or be a victim. And there will be incredible music to really loose your self and get hysterical with it. Perhaps with some (not copy right quotes) from osho on being rebellious.
So, there will be thousand of us stalking resort (or Observer) this winter .jeees, let’s just get really wild about this.
we can film it too, it’s easy with mobile phones these days…bbc would be very interested…
And we will take photos or film people smoking or even better, Amrito drinking wiskhy..how horrible! Some one needs to start stalking OFI people for dating…I just wonder if he is not beyond it after all these years. Also, who is taking records for people going for evening meditation? We really do need all that information and then tell it to the world.
Fresch i dont see a problem in blaming it on others.. just make sure that they suffer and you dont….otherwise you’ll end up blaming yourself which is worse because then you’ll have no one left to blame….
though thats a long title for a book ..
news:
After interrogation by Indian Police their main suspect confessed that the current Volcanic eruption in Iceland was the work of environmental jihadists. He also confessed to the assassination of President Kennedy and the invasion of Constantinople in 1473.
Ok. How about “Let’s keep it low”, “Be who you are; negative”, “ Look at others, not your self”, “The most boring life”, “Project – stay healthy”, “Do not listen, just talk”
fresch Once you have mutual ‘ investments’ that you can’t walk away from easily ….then and only then do yu get resolution….never mind the ideology of love and oneness…..
you are never ever going to get a mutually sponsoring community that takes negotiating beyond the safety of therapist led interventions unless … unless you are in each others pants in one way or another….
.Just being inspired/aware/ loving/vegetarian/disciple maybe very laudable but it gets you only as far as the bus stop…..
even friends find ways of being interdependent …if you dont have that level of friendship then community doesnt stand a chance…and ….. meditation means shit in the world of adults its neither a definitive nor a convenient label…and it wont change social shit into social sugar either
its not rocket science…
to be accounatble requires accountability not ideology. and its not a blank cheque…its constant…. like life….
on the other hand social motivation needs strategies…but self awareness in or out of the world is purely your responsibility and needs no defining ‘correspondence’ to function…
and lastly theres the non-dual recognition that has no ready made political vocabulary .. its only focus is presence…to respond without a deliberate ‘I’ or ‘you’ …but thats level 4.
here endeth the sunday sermon…
oh yeah and go veg …dont eat vegetarians !
I am not really sure what you are saying, maybe the language barrier. My old sanyas friends (from my own country) tell me that there is no such a thing like sanyas circle (for other than people who get living out of it) and I should just forget about it. You can not live in the resort or other groups for sure.
I do not know, are you connected with anybody? It might be true; once out of the resort/any other commune or a group, there is no connection. Therefore it would be more useful to put energy to the people around you. What do you think (even more boring, contacts are deeper on a long run)?
whats the question ? You said before osho is not your master or something similar , no? So whats the question about community around ‘Osho’…why concern yourself to belong when you dont buy into the thing in the first place…
in the long run…I have no idea ….whatever is necessary…. do it then it might promote something more…but the focus changes over time i guess….in some areas
more tea ,more biscuits ,more church… its sunday after all?
cheers
m
Of course osho is my master. Hello. So many things are happening at the same time…It’s been going for too long now. I need to let things settle. Thank you. I hope the dog is getting enough exercise.
FRESCH :OOOPPs misunderstanding from your post maybe yu were quoting lokesh .
Written words are not always the best way of discussing !
Fresch // Apr 7, 2010 at 5:24 pm
QUOTE
>>>>
“”"…….
Lokesh, I read you did get hurt with osho or sanyas somewhere on the path, which I can understand. I hope you are melting or healing that with just where ever you are..osho is not a guru for me, never was…I do not know
what he is; he speaks from inside me, but I do not get him:)
……………..”"” <<<
so, what are you asking and who? Lokesh?
I do not get you?
I am not hurt with sanyasins?
I am thinking of bigger picture in my life…where to focus.
that was your quote, not mine !! aaaaaaaie
see the date of the post and the arrowed quote marks…u posted that ..
. so it appeared yu are talking about yu………
yes, we (I) do get hurt many times…but that’s not happening right now. many things are pulling to the opposite directions, as always:D but they are very good things…
sometimes I wonder if there is any sanyas network… is it only in the air or airline lounge? we are like birds or something…:D
imagine no network
just what you do without anything more than a reference, a touch a suggestion ….no osho ‘bus’ that you’d want to climb on forever and ever…. just a look or a moment ….and then ….
imagine thats what oshoness does….without a reference point even inside called Osho….
i wonder maybe thats all I ever know ….
May be it is because of the flowing juices of your chained girl friend, last few posts of your Martyn, have a juicy sense of humour.
Not lol but i was smiling before the computer screen.
and Surely,
Shantam prem
c/o sannyas salvation army,
i am arrogantly humbled.
So is the path of warrior, who is also hopelessly in love with love.
resonance happens…
tingggg ommmmm
Danyavad…..
so without looking
the
resonance happens
tingggg ommmmm !
Danyavad….
Shantam Star to say so strongly and repeatedly that you have no doubt of the managements practical capabilities is a clear sign that you are holding onto a false belief, and at a deeper level actually know it yourself, though you are afraid to admit it. Your shift in acknowledging just slightly the vulnerability of the resort is a case in point.
Freschee you have a beautiful heart yet it lies often exposed to the whim of your fanciful mind. Though, often times your mind has a deep and sharp perception. You allude to me hijacking SannyasNews. Where do you think I learnt my craft?
So Freschee you would like me to have a little walk around the resort. What will it be then, a pleasant meet and greet? Or is it that you would like me to do a surveillance job? If so, for whom would I working?
I am a freelancer and belong to Osho, to myself, to nobody, and to everybody. I have a natural flare for getting people to raise their spirits into a crescendo (so to speak). In the business it is called a fire test. You want to know what lies lurking within someone’s well dressed façade and sweetest of smiles. Simply pass a flame over them and see if there is anything combustible.
I would say the resort is ripe for a fire test. Let’s say you and me wander in for a cuppa. If Frank, Bob, and Tony have finished their oShoW road oShow, then they can have front row seats. Of course I need to consider alternative possibilities. One is that I may get burnt. Another is that the delightful fellows down at Pune police central might invite me for an extended stay. On the positive side it just might move the trajectory of social slumber and avert impending doom and gloom.
How lucky it was the night of the GB blast the even a half-witted terrorist was not also interested in the resort. I hope there is never a next time, but one cannot live in la la therapy land if responsible for more than just there own personal journey into psychological sanity.
Of course I come at a price, and since my offer of 1 bag of gold to Mr Smartyn was rejected with much poetic humour, the price is now 2 bags of gold. You will have to find a way to deposit this under my rainbow, but anyhow you are a business executive aren’t you?
I wonder why Swami Rajneesh’s website has been shut down by a DDOS attack? I wonder where that came from?
Ahhh more and more questions, seemingly endless, maybe infinite, possibly divine, likely non-dual, and definitely not enlightened!
Almost no comments so far on The Observer article and/or Rashid’s reply…
Here’s mine:
No surprise at all that even a so-called ‘reputable’ paper like this one prints utter bullshine about an ‘alternative community’ and about an ‘Indian guru’.
Journalists, by and large, just aren’t interested in the truth about these things (and certainly not about ‘The Truth’!)…
Like most of us they’re trained in the intellectual materialist, western tradition, to focus on more ‘worldly’ affairs, involving money, scandal, war, disaster, politics, insoluble (!) social problems and the like.
And they always look for and focus on ‘the problem’, and revel in getting mileage, as much as possible, from ‘the problem’, thereby of course, even helping to create and perpetuate ‘the problem’.
The problem in this case, as someone has already mentioned above, is that most are essentially closed to anything like a person like Osho or to finding any value at all from his ‘movement’, and find it convenient to just take on board the earlier prejudiced hearsay of fellow-journalists (and the self-interests of newspaper magnates).
As clearly demonstrated here by the resounding silence of The Observer and the wretchedly lazy, ill-informed Ms Day.
Tim Guest, his upbringing and connection with a ‘controversial’ (according to the controversy-creatingmedia) Eastern ‘cult’ was such easy game for these irresponsible people
Satya deva
Yes. You are right there.
Almost no replies about the Observer article.
‘ s Funny the editors here at sannyas news have an unnerving knack of finding ways to make us write about anything other than the headline they choose..I jsut dont know how they do it..but I do think England have got a chance of going through to the semi finals in South Africa…
See its happened again. How Why? I think we deserve an apology ….those of us who find ourselves unwittingly writing about something entirely different..
Damn those Icelandic Volcanoes….
Oh yes and its nice to have other contributors here.. I thought I was stuck on level 4 in the Osho Temple of Regrets surrounded by the Water Warriors of Thrang until you showed up. Ive got a 25437654.00000 score whats yours?
Satya Deva. It is my opinion that such happenings as the latest Observer article is such old hat I’m surprised that anyone bothers to pick it up and wear it. It is simply the same old same old. Tabloid fodder for the masses. Most news provided by the media is in essence negative. This is because the news editors are only too aware of the general public’s need for negative impressions to keep feeding the negative spirit that inhabits their lives.
The Situationists of ’68 got it right with the Society of the Spectacle…the editors here would know about that I’m sure
or in French situationist language ..Beneath the cobbles .. the beach…! (thats one for those of us who remember ..even vaguely )
But if you have ever tried to read a French Situationist critique of society and the media make sure you have a thermos of warm tea ready.. for all the deconstuctionist musings…
now back to the adverts…. :-0
‘ ‘ s Funny the editors here at sannyas news have an unnerving knack of finding ways to make us write about anything other than the headline they choose..I jsut dont know how they do it..”
Or is it the other way around? Mo matter what they come up with writers here discuss about only topic.. Anyone’s guess
Its something in the water
or is that the water in something ?
Well, look put it this way…
Osho only ever talked about one thing
and it wasnt motorbike repair….
Martyn.. Osho only ever talked about one thing.
Are you sure about that?
Lokesh…..
really
you have a point
it could well have been motorbike repair
but i might well not have been there….but there again neither was he…..
does that help or am i barking up the wrong er… commune
( note from sunrise news: normal international english service will be resumed shortly… we apologise for the plethora of incomprehensible english aphorisms
…)
Our international English readers should insert backing music from Miten and Premal whenever these discussions and vocabulary reach the dizzying heights of incomprehensibility….
(something like ….tra la la la la ganga ganga … tra la la la postman pat postman pat had a very nice hat tralaaa mayatri obladi obladah all we are saying is give peace a chance trala lala)
After reading last few comments one gets that old sannyas observation, how the mass media is rotten, they are interested in Trivia and not about TRUTH etc.
During Osho´s life time such high moral and intellectual view was understandable, we were in the process of building something new with His blue print.
but now it looks so hollow as the priests son who goes to Pros, speak about celibacy.
Sunday observer print edition has always limited space for comments like many other papers, while on net edition many comments can be accommodated and control is quite minimum.
My question is can Osho Times net edition has the courage to publish Rashid´s comments when it is clear He writes for Osho world.
To ask others for openness broad mindedness is one thing, but to live it is just another.
Somewhere Sannyas writers behave like Muslim intellectuals, every time you confront them about continuous blood bath by the followers, they will quote; Meaning of Islam. Islam is derived from the Arabic root “Salema”: peace, purity, submission and obedience.
Sannyas community is on the scene for more than 4 decades, can someone share one point which is a positive contribution to the collective humanity.
And specially we the sannyasins have even more accountability, we have to check our selves on the yard stick of Osho, the stick he was using to check all others groups, creeds, organisations, cults, religions and so one.
Yes, one positive contribution of our collective self i remember, to use new Jargon.
We will not say we are having an organisation, we are organism, we are not religion, ours is religiousness. We have no movement, we are individual, we don´t believe in God, but in existence.
And difference between God and Existence,
the same as between Hairy pussy and the shaved one!
yes kranti…pls can we talk about anything else but OFI? I will never discus it anymore – all done anything more would be obsessive and boring. NO!
Anything else, with everybody, Yes!
Hug to you all
Fresch…
I worry that I may have nothing to talk about if we dont talk about your favorite resort.
. I mean hairy or shaved is not sufficiently tantric as a subject though it does make for a lifetimes search…
How about a compromise….Can we discuss if the resort management team prefer hairy or shaved ?
Thanks Shantam for the meditative imagery. I have better sleep now. Perhaps Oshoworld could have centrefold for tantrikas ..this months masterful meditator (careful with the spelling)… Miss April …..
Shantam Prem, you have to understand that although Osho might be the fulcrum of your existence, in the world at large he is not exactly big news. I’d say only about one in two hundred people have ever heard of him. As for Lady Gaga….
Fresch,
I understand very well that always to read about OFI creates fatigue. I must take some blame for this as more than a year, this writer has continuously thrown the little pebbles through the web pages of this site on the monumental Goliath.
For sure, sannyasins can share many topics on this site. When you look at the other famous sannyas sites, hardly one sees any thought and heart provoking matter.
When even world´s biggest newspapers have the provisions of writers readers interactions, and i appreciate how gracefully, the writers take the complete ripping Off of their masks by the unknown readers.
other than this site, all other Osho sites simply offer articles by the brushed up sannyasins.
So once i while some one writes at sannyasnews, we have to admire the courage, as the comments some times can be quite rude.
So Fresch and others, please take some initiative and start some new topics other than OFI.
As an EPILOGUE, i wish to share the contents of an email, i received the other day. This person got my address by clicking at my name.
He has mentioned an article by one of the most admired name in Indian Literature, late Amrita Pritam.
During 1991 in one of her book, she has a talk with well renowned astrologer based in New Delhi. She has discussed Osho´s horoscope with him. His astro reading was a shock to Amrita Pritam as this highly rebellious woman has shown publicly much love and appreciation for Osho, when most of the Indian elites were ducking under the blanket.
According to this astrologer, Osho´s work will go in the down ward whirl. The momentum taken during his life time, will whither away because of the inflated egos of his own sannyasins.
I have read the first edition of this book. While reading the newspaper cutting of this article at ashram board i was laughing with Sadhana, that this astrologer must be imposing his personal wish full thinking.
This is life.
Many times Smokers cough turns into tuberculosis, and it hurts the most when the sickness is because of passive smoking.
When i get this book again, i would love to translate the article.
SAT MUSAFIR
by AMRITA PRITAM
ISBN: 9788173292323
Subject: TRAVEL REMINI SCIENC
Price: INR 250.00
Shantam Prem.
Back in 1977 there were some quite remarkable astrologers and tarot readers in the sannyasin community in Poona.
One in particular had everyone’s attention because her predictions were so accurate.
Osho got wind of this and pretty soon he brought the subject up in the morning discourse.
As I understood it, he said that people who go to astrologers and tarot readers are people who lack significance in their lives.
It did not take long for everyone to lose interest in that particular tarot reader after that.
It did not take long for everyone to lose interest in that particular tarot reader after that.?
And for how many days or hours this lack of interest remained?
Simple fact is gurus, Prostitutes, forcasters, money landers are as much part of human spectrum as farmers, traders etc.
To me it seems, the call center people in india with their American accents and false names is the only new breed.
When i will be a Master in my own right, it will be nice to tell disciples,” only those people go to doctors, who are sick.”
and it will not take long for everyone to lose interests in medical practitoners!
(Editorial Context) OK OK, just to please SannyasNews, appease Freschee, and confuse Mr Smartyn, I will follow strict Osho protocol and give comment only within the guidelines of the lead article.
The resort looks the antithesis of a closed religious society, such as the deeply floored one imagined by Elizabeth Day. Anyone can enter the gateless gate, though a few extra dollars in the pocket make it easier. Anyhow the pricing structure and resort model discourage people lingering too long and creating the problems of closed social structures that may become alienated from the outside world. The removal of obvious religious markings and the creation of modern resort-like facilities give the impression that there is a now a seamless blend with the outside world. All this too created by the visionaries Jayesh, Amrito, and others in the Inner-Circle and in resort management.
How long has Dhyanesh lived in his space in Krishna House. The man has only lived and breathed Osho since he finished Law school. When he went for a trip to visit his beloved in London he didn’t like it and wanted to come home straight away. The beloved is not important. What is important is to stand at the top of the auditorium stairs (the pulpit) before White-Robe, and to be someone special. And not just an ordinary person of prestige, but a person with religious prestige. Just listen to Sadhana talk. She is absolutely unable to string a single sentence together that is not a dull repetition of Osho. Have you had the opportunity to see how Jayesh manages the place. His language in managing the day to day affairs is infused with a spiritual gloss. His approach is laced with spiritual connotations. How many years has Amrito been living in the little room adjacent to Osho’s original bed-room? These people live and breath Osho. What is their connection to, and view of, the outside world?
Are you aware of the writings of people like Prem Abhay and Swami Rajneesh. What if what is said about food hygiene and water sanitation, of ugly political and financial scheming, and of violence and assault, is the case. Would that surprise you? Would you just say that well it is India after all so yes I did expect such things.
If you have followed the discussion about the terrorist threat and Bakery bombing it would also appear that management is indeed severely wanting. Is it really the case? Well the water is a tough one and you cannot read the microbial test results so who knows, Abhay is probably a dangerous nutter like they say. So likely is Swami Rajneesh, and many others. (In the least they probably needs therapy, right Freschee?) Yet with this terrorist stuff the facts are not old and do not lie hidden. Of course a reasonable number of Osho sannyasins will have their blinkers on, but plenty will not. And plenty of people who aren’t conditioned by Osho ideology will also not be secretly bidding for anything Osho.
It all really makes me wonder about this new revamped worldly Osho movement created by Jayesh and the like. How’s about I find out about what is really going on by asking a few questions and asking around. Oh, no one will give me any straight answers, and the general community appears scared to get involved in any discussion. Oh, the management of the resort have a secretive no comment style of operating. This is all very strange. I thought they were very worldly. I thought OshoWorld and the like were the extremist devotees, and Jayesh and crowd were part of the worldly way of integration. This seems to not make much sense.
When I look at it, it appears that at a senior level of functioning, the management of the resort (including OIF and the Inner-Circle) is deeply devotional despite removing a lot of the obvious physical markings at the resort, and are not particularly involved with the outside world. Yes all the old sannyasins probably can only afford to come for a few weeks, as with new seekers. Yet the little clique at the top of the power structure does not live accordingly. Sure Osho did set up a structure that had a management that stayed longer term, with others coming and going and thus integrating with the world. Over the first ten years of Osho leaving the body this management went through a civil war of sorts. The outcome of it is that almost all the original Inner-Circle members are now refugees. So, is the new Osho elite fulfilling Osho’s requirement to act as care-takers of functional managerial positions? I can only hope so, I can enjoy wondering, I can think it unlikely from what I have seen, but how can I find out for sure?
I really need to be again convinced that resort management and the Inner-Circle are who they claim to be. They are interesting in a model of living that encourages worldly integration. There can and will be communes of all types of persuasions. They will have their benefits and their problems.
If the managerial elite of the resort model of Osho are actually living a closed communal life, and if they are actually seriously dysfunctional, extremist religious devotees, than I wonder two things. I wonder what they will do next, and I wonder about the effects on people of worldly persuasion that come and go.
In a closed communal life there is the possibility of implosion (mass suicide for example) or eventual explosion with the outside world. This latter possibility was what Sheela was creating at The Ranch. However the idea of the primary focus being coming and going from a spiritual centre is a new creation. It has the possibility of a different outcome. If such a model continues to operate and if it is seriously dysfunctional, then it will be like a cancer that grows and lives in a closed cyst-like environment, but also spreads surreptitiously and extensively. Healthy people will come for a few weeks, and take the disease back with them and spread it to their worldly friends. If more dysfunctional resorts spring up than the situation can become very serious indeed. So I would say we are looking at something new here, growing out of the problems that can be created from something old (the closed communal life).
The result would be almost unnoticeable at first, especially if you are of the view like Shantam (for example), that at a practical managerial level all is well at the resort. The clue is indeed whether or not they are performing their duties. The pointer is that some people say they are not, these people appear to be rational human beings, and other factors are pointing the same way. The critical point is that the organisation functions in a veil of total secrecy, and that it defends this secrecy with an aura of arrogance and superiority. This all points to the possibility of a very serious cancer, and if it is the case, under the new model, the cancer will (and has already) spread.
Under the new model it is that you will not notice so much the spread because it will be dispersed. Yet though it will at first be light it will make up for this it its reach. In a way, the new model has the potential to be more threatening and dangerous for society. With signs that the nub of religious power at OIF, the Inner-Circle, and the resort seemingly out of kilter, I would say there may be a problem here. If there is a bulbous cancer already, then it also be already spread. If it continues to grow, and if it continues to create other nodes, then we may have a big problem here. This is why I say that firstly a clear medical assessment be done, and second a clear model be put in place that addresses the underlying issue of corruption of religious power. It is of course the same old problem from the commune model.
Copyright © Swami Detective 2010
Detective,
Can you shed some light, what is cooking on the other camp?
The people who won the copy right case?
DO they have enough gas left to take the march further till the high seat at 17, Koregaon Park, Pune?
Is there not some divine power behind JAyesh that as a foreigner he is the main Puppeteer of Osho´s main seat in India?
Where is the collective will of Indian sannyasins?
New Delhi, the power center of the dissident group; do they have the moral guts to confront the one man show?
Shantam Prem, you ask: And for how many days or hours this lack of interest remained?
Well…I can only speak for myself in this case and the answer is 33 years and still going strong.
Lokesh that appears predictable by your first answer…
Does the name Osher or Osah or Oshee something like that mean something to you…did something happen in 1977 that continued for 33 years .mmmm mmm….yes 33 is definitely quite important then 3 + 3 = 6
and 6 is 9 upside down…and 9 plus 33 is 42 and 4 and 2 is 6 and 6 divided by 2 is 3 which is the sign for om because of the trimurti and that means this year is the year of your realization…..
.ommmmmmm
(put the cheque in the post to :-
Enormous Astrological deductions
Enchanted House
Rumbaba Lane
Oshvitz
India
———–
Clouseau,
You are right.
We are all going to die a horrible unfulfilled death.
Aiieeeeeeeeeee
Martyn…Yeah,,,yeah you are right and Hendrix had that song if 6 was 9….this is a synchronicity flash deluxe.
Huh…unfulfilled death…what on earth is that supposed to mean….oh yeah I get it…a grave with no earth in it…wow!
A grave with no earth is called a hole in the ground.
And 3 holes make the hole-y trinity.. can you see Lokesh its now its ha-ha-ppening……. lokesh you are being sent through the portal ahead of us and Shantam was just the trip wire for all of this to ha-ha-ppen
‘ scuse me while I kiss the sky…
Detective, you are a sweet and very passionate human being. Why not directing all that creativity to something useful to your self; same things must have happened before…and unfortunately will happen again, if you continue acting out. I am talking from my own experience (with different situations of course).
Shantam, when something is cooking in yourself, you start find “evidence” around you to support it. Everything around Osho has always been changing; dying and being born into something new. I do not know what the new will be for you, but please welcome it with an open heart. It will not be what it was before, why not be prepared for something unexpected, challenge…
I have so many things happening at the same time that I am not clear at all what direction to take. However, I try to listen what is happening easy around me, what people and things are coming towards me…and I try to see my self there. Osho is in my dna everywhere I am, with whom so ever I am.
By the way, why so much negative effort to sanyasin who have been with osho for decades…who are these “masters” sanyasins gather around like kalindi? Would any of sanyasin participate in her group at the resort? What makes a difference? Perhaps with too close people we act like siblings or family…argying and fighting:D
martyn, you friends can talk about their dog here…
Martyn, there now remains only one final question.
Is it tomorrow or just the end of time?
lokesh…
man that was quick …just through the portal and already talking in koans…..nice….
and steady-on with the adulation of fellow seekers here… i had to wait a whole week once of paid group therapy …to be told i was a sweet and creative guy.. ..
….my frenz say that my talents are wasted in seeking… that i should try finding instead….it might help more….
Fresch, say….Shantam, when something is cooking in yourself, you start find “evidence” around you to support it.
So do you.
You only understand people to the depth that you understand yourself.
You can draw your own conclussion from that staement.
Of course Lokesh, and you can interprete that many ways; going with the flow (I do not always see it) or circumstances creating opportunity to learn more…how to see my self more and grow? That makes our lives so intense. How is it for you?
Martyn, you found our dog, he is not escaping? Or staying?
I mean the dog is not straying….:D
Is it tomorrow, or just the end of time?
A level four or five psychedelic experience can cause the sensation of reaching towards the end of time, proving that this song is about acid.
yesterday all my troubles seemed so……
its music group after evening discourse….
we should be interested in media interested in sanyas:DDD Love you. Hug.
stray dog …lokesh yu went so way elliptical that i had to google that…
i was more planet gong in 77 … than hendrix/ stray dog 73
any www to hear the tracks?
hows hirvana?
fresch are you in with lokesh on another level ? are yu an emerson lake palmer stray dog hendrix astro surfer ?
something tells me we just had a moment of bizarre inexplicable musical accidental synchronicity.. nananana twilight zone
fresch….
U are probably not aware that yu got onto the hendrix loop there and yu were referring to my tendency to disappear.>’straying’ … .also dog straying was accidentally your reference to an obscure rock band ‘stray dog’..but unlike oshobob frank and the rest of the crew , i give notice if thats what i intend….and when its total its total… that way nobody waits around to see if anyone will re-appear …..when yur gone yur gone… Osho taught me that….
I met Jimi Hendrix one time in the Beatle’s Apple HQ in London.
I was young and excited and acted like a complete and utter tongue-tied bozo. He was a little guy but when it came to playing the guitar he was a colossus.
Fresch, you ask. How is it for you?
Good question. It is not the easiest time in my life. I am having to deal with the body’s gradual breakdown and the fact that I did not spare the horses when it came to living in this one. I am shocked by how attached I am to this earth suit. On the other hand I am enjoying a period in my life where the pieces are falling into place to form a picture of a life well lived. I love life. Yeah…that’s about it. You’ll have to excuse me now because I have to go outside and kiss the sky.
Fresch
Yes.. You are right this OFI bashing is becoming obsessive and boring…
Why dont we , as disciples of an enlightened master discuss about meditation and awareness.. hahahaha.. that will be even more boring i suppose..
Can any one tell me, what will come out of this kind of converstaion???? I dont think any even notice what is cooking here????…To me…either one go for dynamick medition…or writing for sannaysnews….why not you guys do dynamick???….
This is beautiful Fresch
‘ Shantam, when something is cooking in yourself, you start find “evidence” around you to support it. Everything around Osho has always been changing; dying and being born into something new. I do not know what the new will be for you, but please welcome it with an open heart. It will not be what it was before, why not be prepared for something unexpected, challenge…
I have so many things happening at the same time that I am not clear at all what direction to take. However, I try to listen what is happening easy around me, what people and things are coming towards me…and I try to see my self there. Osho is in my dna everywhere I am, with whom so ever I am. ”
What you FEEL about the above Shantam? May be we can have a new thread where we can share how we welcomed & accepted new with Osho DNA
Sorry read as ‘ OIF ‘ in my previous post
Just coming from dynamic…* feeling giggly….*
must start focusing on work…uuhhhhhh, my head does not work
What is cooking?
I think the following joke received from the desk of Prem Jeevan can shed some light.
LORD… THEY ARE FINALLY TOGETHER …
Judy married Ted; they had 13 children.
Ted died of cancer.
She married again, and she & Bob had 7 more children.
Bob was killed in a car accident, 12 years later.
Judy remarried again,
,…. And this time, she & John had 5 more children.
Judy finally died, after having 25 children.
Standing before her coffin, the preacher prayed for her.
He thanked the Lord for this very loving woman and said,
“Lord, they are finally together.”
Fresch leaned over and quietly asked her best friend, Shantam:
“Do you think he means her first, second, or third husband?”
Shantam replied:….
“I think he means her legs, Fresch….”
In the midst of phase 2 of Dynamic Sadhu manages to log on to GagAss News and demand we all do Dynamite the way he wants it. Sadhu I can tell you, and in fact I will tell you, nothing will come out of your conversation!!!
Kranti has attained to wisdom at the Oshwitz Residual Camp , and coaxed by Amrito at his side and Dhyanesh menacing from behind, just manages to do two copy and pastes, and of course one apology for being himself.
OIF bashing is boring because no intelligent response is forthcoming.
New Schedule for EX, PROTO, POST,Current and Wannabe Sannyassiners
Monday Afternoons : OIF Bashing ( No Pillows _make it real).Elvis Costello and Watching the Detectives play Concert /Gig Evening
Tuesdays All Day drop In: Counter Bash (Use pillows without any effect)
Wednesdays Tea Time : Sit around and discuss end of the World. Followed by Tantra Party ‘If we’re all gonna die well heck lets Party party ‘music by Dj Lokesh.
Thursdays : Water Tasting Session (Bring Your Own Bottle)
Fridays Evenings Vegan Video : How Sannyas Sin and can you do it better.
Saturdays: More Predictions about the next weeks OIF Bashing at Lonely Heights Villas.Dresden Make sure yu book or no can predict what will happen.. Special Guest a visiting Doctor.(Bring Bottle)
SUNDAYS: Tour of Oshvitz Labour Camp and Memorial Centre .. meet at the Wailing Wall. Fresch Orange Jews to be served and apologies to everyone for having the same stuff to deal with after all these years.
Next week : Mystery Surprise…’Neo-Wow Amazing Training’ Training led by unsurprising Black Rober.
The New is being cooked in the kitchens of Osho.
Fresch and Kranti..start a new thread, share what you feel, see and smell; tell something about the recipes of Osho Cook Book.
Let me share something.
Kitchen has gone ultra modren. There are no more amature cooks, doing the spontaneous cooking in their robes.
Graduates from the New York cooking school on their first assignment are doing the work at 17, Koregaon Park.
What is on the menu?
Frozen Pizzas from Dr. Oetekar
Hyginically packed by an ISO 420 company.
If people have eaten something significantly different during the last 10 years, Please let me know. I don´t want to defame the kitchen managers.
And also i am not against the frozen pizzas. How much science is involved in the packed food industry is quite a break through the way we eat.
and than people who have never eaten Pizzas, what to say packed Pizzas with the names like Pizza New York with Parmod brand dry Salami, Pizza Delhi with Atul brand flour and Pizza Zürich with stolen Franken; it must be the most amazing experience, an evolution in the cutlary skills of humanity.
And if some idiot like me reminds people about the “Osho Thali” is branded as retro living in Past, is not welcoming the new, the future.
Please, please, share what you call New, the future, The Osho DNA.
Swami Detective
I didnt do any residential..and no one chnaged me.. I had always been like this..Hahahahah.. By the way what copy paste you mean.. ?
If the two small comments which i posted are copy paste? From where ? Then what about all that water contamination and OIF bashing.. Some people seem to simple copy paste those stuff in every thread.. No matter what the topic of the thread is
Fresch . now you know why the posts in all threads look similar
Shantam Dear.. I just Quoted Fraech because he said something beautiful.. thought you will like that part..
As there are two Kranti´s.
If the present Kranti is the one from South India, writing extensively few months ago, can you tell your story of doing residential course?
Kranti, Fresch is (S)he.
And it is true, she has written beautifully, one cannot ignore.
PS-and if you are the new Kranti, please share a bit of your bio.
Martyn. Dj Lokesh….hey common on, using your psychic powers and siddhis on a blog is not fair.
Schedule Revision at Oshowitz De-oath and Deconstruction Camp
Tonight: New feature movie called Close Encounter Group with the Third Kind. Story line is about the evolution from animal, to man, to Oshowitz sannyas-sin man. Take a seat amongst a third generation pack of ferocious dengue mozzies down at the local sewer. The movie shall be projected on to the next generation plazma swamp. Of course to those that don’t know, the swamp is known on Osho.com as the sparkling mountain stream (Fresch from the Himalayas).
Tomorrow Night: Tomorrow night never comes.
Tonight the Second: Live re-enactment of the Close Encounter Group of the Third Kind. Special feature is Jayesh wearing an Osho hat in the shape of a nuclear missile. This is the extended version and so Jayesh repeats the following verse until everyone desperately runs off to do Dynamarmite at 6 the following morning: “Do you know who I am? I will not let you leave because I am a dreamer”.
Efforts to leave the O-tel California style lock-down are thwarted by a crafty security plan swiftly brought into play before the creditors roll in. You see the trouble is Dhyanesh, flanked by Yogendra and his band of sword wielding bandits, stop everyone from fleeing the scene. No one ever finds out why this happened, and Dhyanesh cannot be reached for comment, Jayesh escaped by launching his Osho hat, and the rest of the team are playing pass the secret.
Shantam.. I am the same old Kranti.. Unfortunately i couldnt attend the residential program.. I may do the same later..
Just read this in a book. Any comments?
The sage had died in the milieu in which he’d become accustomed to living. During the last thirty years of his life he had been constantly surrounded by controversy, levelled by adversaries and buffered by the ceaseless love of his devotees. The current debate was centred on the cause of his death. Was he, as the guru claimed, a victim of thallium poisoning? This highly toxic chemical element allegedly mixed with food given to him by employees of the U.S. Government in a plot hatched and implemented in 1985, when the guru was arrested and detained within the shadowy confines of the American Penal System. Or had he, as others claimed, succumbed to the combined effects of a chronic neurological disease and an alleged addiction to prescription tranquillizers coupled with massive inhalations of nitrous oxide? There were even rumours circulating that the master had requested his personal physician to inject him with a lethal concoction of barbiturates and curare-like poison to end his life, which would have explained the rush to cremate his corpse, thus avoiding the legal complications that would have arisen had an autopsy been carried out to determine cause of death.
Lokesh, What is the title of this book and Author?
Comes from UK, USA, Australia or…?
SP Those are questions not comments.
for comments one needs the context too.
Also intention and the psychological background of the person is important.
Osho is not just any man who died because of this and that reason. He is the Buddha or Jesus of our time.
Even though 1 in 2000 know about Him still Osho deserves that place in the company of historical club of few remarkable men and women in the field of inner exploration.
SP You are changing the tune to suit your self. You have made many comments on this blog site without really knowing context and psychological background. Such talk looks like a thinly disguised smoke screen.
SP Another thing you might want to try and understand is that you are making statements that sound like irrevocable facts, when in fact you are actually only stating your opinion.
To claim that Osho is the Buddha or Jesus of our time is in a way a contradiction. Osho was not an imatator. I see little in his life that would make me conclude that he was anything like Buddha or Jesus. except perhaps to say that the level of consciousness from which he was operating from might have been on par with Buddha or Christ. But really, how can any of us claim to know that until we ourselves scale the lofty peaks of the inner world and then claim the right to make such statements. Until that day we are in the dark as to who and what any enlightened person is. It’s no use to say you simply feel it in your heart, for that can be emotion talking and even though emotions move much faster than thoughts it is still just talk.
Lokesh, Let’s see if your theory would be the “Truth” It’s said when enlightened you are NOT identified with the body.
What is enlightenment? If enlightened, you do not feel any pain in your body if you had for example tooth ace? I need to take this to lower level because I am not enlightened. When I had strong back pain I could still feel love, also not be indentified with the pain all the time, but it was still there.
Osho’s body was very fragile already when he arrived to America. I heard him say many times he is in the body only for sanyasins. In most meditations you fill your body with oxygen with breathing techniques. So, let’s assume instead of painkillers he was taking nitrous oxide. I do not see a problem there. I was taking painkillers for my back pain. Is enlightened human being a God? I understand body functions the way body does, if you are enlightened you are just watching it, not controlling it like a God. The same goes for everybody; if your body is sick, take the medicine for the body, do not do some mambozambo with it.
Also, if osho decided to go for euthanasia for him self, I do not have a problem with that either. I hear him talking positively about it.
Christian fundamentalists destroyed his commune; his “body”…He always just quoted his doctors what they had told about the symphtoms. I do not know better.
But I do know, that I can not share all my experiences with just anybody, they just do not understand me or see me.
Well, Fresch, you were doing well until you fired this one off. Christian fundamentalists destroyed his commune. Come of it. You don’t actually believe that crap, do you? The commune imploded, not because of Christian fundamentalism but because it was a failed experiment conducted by Osho and some assistants who got a bit carried away on a power trip. I don’t have any problem accepting that but obviosly some sanyassin fundamentalists do.
Osho was one of the twentieth centuries greatest social experimentars. being that he was bound to make mistakes or, who knows, maybe he simply became bored when he saw how stupid some of his disciples were.
Infact Osho has said the enlightened man’s body is even more prone to physical problems compared to others..He stated that the body will sort of disintegrate which ofcourse is beyond my comprehension..
He quoted so may people Ramana Maharishi having very serious ailments like cancer.. So although we can not understand few things from enlightened view point , we can see that an enlighetened man is worse off when it comes to battling physical problems..Seems they will not even have the motivation to protect the body for too long like other mortals
So osho having physical problems and handling those pains in a certain manner seems to have nothing to do with his enlightened state
But as far as ethunasia is concerened i am not sure..osho himself talked highly how a enlightened person leaves the body whenever he wants..If he has to take poison to leave the body then it seems his enlightenment can be questioned..again i cant even come close to understanding those sort of things
” Christian fundamentalists destroyed his commune. Come of it. You don’t actually believe that crap, do you? ”
If you take out Sheela and her power trips the commune would have survived ? You never know..But still in my opinion Sheela created the environment and weaknesses in the system through which the US govt & fundamendalists could enter easily..
So in a way Fresch is right.. It is indirect ..
luckily we don’t have to know the truth before we find it otherwise we’d be really fucked…or to put it another way …we are essentially That so its no surprise to recognise/be with that …. beauty or love or presence or silence ..
its a shame more of those we interact with have not yet recognised the quality of elegant interactions or can remind each other of them to the point of linking them all up… a real loss to daily life…
one persistent feature of enightened people is the unambiguous stillness of the eyes…..and the fact that in physical sleep the consciousnes remains awake
personally i wouldn’t want to save the world shantam… im just happy that we can enjoy to exchange our dignified humanity to its fullest extent through the vision .. and boy is that simplicity,frankness, a tough call in the ordinary world..makes me wanna live in a commune…..with a master……
but then there’d be other issues…
” its a shame more of those we interact with have not yet recognised the quality of elegant interactions or can remind each other of them to the point of linking them all up… a real loss to daily life…”
Not sure whether i understand you rightly
But i do feel i have never been fortunate to interact with people who are highly concious if not enlighetened in my daily life.. Thats a real limitation and makes it very hard to grow on our own..
Had you not lived in Osho’s presence?
I have a problem in using Freudian sociopathology… generic ’causes’ which sannyas therapy and vocabulary attempts dismally to disentangle without sponsoring the other.
Its one of the models Osho uses and is used interminably within the commune usually to accuse others ….ahh thats just dutch /german/ chinese conditioning.. always looking for the enemy within at moments of crises…..its also a method of sabotaging when direct attacks fail , as a method of creating disabling shame or doubt. The cure is never so easily bandied around.. (and usually involves copious amounts of time getting through over or under stuff.)..and that seems the polar opposite of a mutually sponsoring vocabulary. The only dangerous fundamentalists I have ever met are not the fee paying sympathetic rebels who sign up for a three month residential, but the malevolent loonies who teach and disposses you as a child..they are the targets and we should use all our enegies to identify them and their society .. not for navel gazing or pointing in accusation. to people who want change in their lives..its facile and resolves nothing.Moreover its used mostly to divide and rule.
And talking like that creates such facile divisions which we have never as a community stopped using.
A solution would be to give people the authority to set their own agenda and fulfil it , not to find some mysterious growthful self through postponed achievement.. (ja i relly need to breke sru my inggerr.).
…for intelligent interpersonal direct and immediate resolution without using ready made useless labels.. father mother christian etcetc….Its not good therapy but just third rate intimidation which even the other major cults use.
Is that clear everyone or WILL I HAVE TO SHOUT !!
Kranti you make some very relevant points but this…If you take out Sheela and her power trips the commune would have survived ? You never know..But still in my opinion Sheela created the environment and weaknesses in the system through which the US govt & fundamendalists could enter easily..
Even with an imagination that has the streching power of knicker elastic it is impossible for me to believe that the collapse of Rajneeshpuram came about because of Sheela and her power trips. You are granting the woman more intelligence or more stupidity than she was equiped with. She did not do what she did on her own. That would have been impossible.
In suggesting such ideas you are undermining the great lesson that that magnificent failed experiment provides us with, which is in essence that everyone involved in the ranch was in some way, no matter how small, responsible for its collapse. Blaming others, especially fools like Sheela, only succeeds when giving individual power away. Strength comes with accepting responsibility and avioding repeating the same mistakes.
Martyn, in this case you only need to whisper.
Kranti: u say ”Had I not lived in Osho presence….”
Well, had i not lived in Oshos presence is a 63 and half million dollar question
Its an ‘If’ question is it ?
Or if its a grammar mispell ‘Have’ i not lived in Osho’s presence… Er yes in the wider Pune commune and only in timeless moments on a one 2 one….
and to explain….if you recognise it/that/ him/ this/you are it…..
Rumi used to say to all those who thanked him for his poetry and its beauty, he would thank for being able to appreciate it…..and thats the same between ourselves.. otherwise you deny your own capacity….and osho’s being never left you/me/i in denial….how could he
Lokesh …..are you the original burnin man after whom the fest is named…maybe they need yu there this year….just to show the young uns what not to do !
turn the speakers up and have a blast ! yeeehaaaaaa
Martyn…are you suggesting I’m burnt out…fizzle fizzle. I hope to DJ at the Sannyas gathering in Portugal this summer. If I pull that off I should completely destroy what is left of my tattered reputation.
Clouseau……what you wrote..thats a much better tune, from the same composer…
pheww cheers for that…
personally i think that even if you had/ have access to the absolute truth or facts then it depends on the right context to hear it….and communicate it so that it may be absorbed at each listeners capacity …..
and ideological absolutes/extremes are philosophical utilities to achieve certain results.Including your own. No matter what principle or value they hold, engagement in context creates praxis so that principle affects condition and vice versa.
What you believe about me or yourself given various challenges or contexts changes.
or at least can change into something appropriate to task.
which is a way of letting others decide for themselves.
Lexington 1776
Lokesh i looked at the fest calendar previously …nice its happening…looks way out in the mountains…. do they get the numbers out there ?
Im unable to make that one….and if yu play anything by ‘stray dog’ remember this blog !
i met van morrison once in a london cafe in the 90′s.. my hero ! he had a sannyas girlfrend too (once)…
.old hippies……never die …….they just fade away…….
Martyn, I have a feeling I’ll burn out before I fade away…but you never know.
The Potugal fest is shaping up nicely with some great sanyassin musicians like Rupesh, Bharam and Somesh promising to show up. As for numbers i can’t say for sure. The vibe is one of a cosmic gathering, so it might happen. If I make it there will file a report.
Yes Lokesh.. Ypu are right.. The failure was the collective resposnsibility of all..Couldnot have been one man or woman..especially in a commune where Awareness and living with backbone were key traits.. cant imagine how people could allow things to happen the way they happened..
Martyn..
I just enquired whether you were there in Pune 1 or 2 when Osho was in body..Sorry if i had not put that clearly.. But your answer is a bit above my intelligene to grasp..
kranti…
pune 1 and 2
so i made it too complicated ….
what you see is what you are….
ok enough 4 2day ?
Kranti you say: Cant imagine how people could allow things to happen the way they happened..
Therein lies the crux of the matter. Many of us couldn’t imagine that. I believe now that many of us have grown to a point that we can admit that we became childishly dependent on Osho, that we allowed ourselves to believe he was ultimately in control, that under those wonderfully perceptive eyes of his nothing could transpire that he was not of aware of. Well…we were wrong and I think it was because what we wanted from Osho was too much. Someone to save us, some great Appollo to lead us into salvation, while all the while Osho was just like us, a human being, spirit trapped in matter. He said many times that he was the most most ordinary man in the world. We in turn smiled knowingly, imaging that it was one of his jokes. The thing is, he was telling the truth and we did not want to hear it.
Yes Lokesh.. We desperately wanted to believe he was special while he was not ..
But i do feel he did have some traits / speaking skills / ability to conceive of such big experiment in conciousness which other enlightened beings couldnt even conceive of.. He did have an image that was too huge and for people on the other side trapped within this little thing called mind he was too big..
Sometime i also feel Osho himself didnt help the cause by talking about enlightenment and other things in a manner which was beyond ordinary..One of our earlier contributors here Andreas Roth used to say osho did exaggerate about this whole concept of enlightenment at times.. What do you think about it?
Yes Kranti, interesting points you raise. One only needs to read U. G. Krishnamurti’s tales about enlightenment being the worst thing that can happen for a different take.
I can remember one time sitting with Osho and him giving me an inquizative look, which I interpred to mean, ‘Do you really want enlightenment?’ My answer was, ‘No, I do not.’ How can one get to that point where one wishs to let go of everything, including the one that lets go. I can’t really say, because I am not in a position to speak honestly about it.
What I do know is this. One does not need to worry about it, or anything else that can be relegated to the ‘Big stuff’ department of life. I know that everything is exactly how it needs to be for this moment to be lived, I know the big stuff like enlightenment, God, cosmic consciousness etc happens to a being exactly when it is supposed to and there is nothing one can do about it, except perhaps to accept it. How can I be so sure about that? You might well ask. I’ve had a glimpse of something that I can’t put into so many words that told me that is how it is.
Please don’t take anything I say seriously. I simply enjoy to express myself through writing.
Lokesh,
In one of the posts in the previous thread you have mentioned about your disillusionment with the sannyas movement and than subsequent visit to some other Master?
Would you like to share this experience.
When i used the world Jesus or Buddha, it is in the same generic way, the way Osho adds five other names with them, and leaving enough blank space in the thoughts for His name too.
And i am not living in this illusion that any one of the exclusive members can solve my personal problems or of the humanity.
Still there presence or imaginary presence give boost to my moral and to other billions.
I bow down before many in my daily life. Just months ago, i have also learnt how to make cross when i am in the church.
Still i am not willing to believe that these gentlemen were not shaking their VV after the Pee. and that they never commit ed any mistakes and i am not hesitant to say that Osho had His own share of blunders and tried His best to put the burden on others through His talks.
And i say it in writing that i don´t find any thing wrong what Regan administration did other than the poison. Any head of the state will send the illegal immigrant out of the boarders, who was also showing his mussels by being protected by Private Militia kind of cultist force.
In this process, if they mixed state with religion and out of their Christian conditioning, killed Him slowly with the lethal dose of secret poison, they have committed a grave crime against their GOD and i hope In their own hell, their Jesus will fry them like French fries. I will prefer them with a bit of Tomato sauce and pickles.
After Osho, there are more than few dozen masters, Bhagwans, Sri Sri´s, Swami´s, His Holinesses spread all over the globe.
Because of the economic boom and media, they have created there space, following and prosperity in a much faster way than the people like Osho and J Krishnamurti.
(others can add few more names like Mahesh Yogi, Sai Baba, Punja Ji etc., i don´t ).
The disciples of these people can add their masters in the same league too. Who am i to delete them or feel offended by their presence.
I am contented on this front. Women on the street catch my attention million times faster than any guru or therapist.
For historical purposes or for the digging out the truth from the mud of here say, it is always relevant to check all the facts from different levels.
It is a tragedy of immense proportion that Man like Osho has to leave the human stage few years before than it was meant to be.
Before the prison thing Osho was saying himself that His life span will be till 2004. 73 years of age is nothing extra ordinary.
And we can see, the period between 1990-2004 has increased the communication level to an unprecedented level. How Osho would have used this for His vision is mind blowing.
And as we see our times and know Osho´s style, Jayesh and Amrito would have been replaced by new entrants.
Think some only forty plus Russian Oligarch as the main disciple!
And yes.. Russian woman with their charm and big boobs getting the seats in the front row.
Wallah!!
Hello! you guys are really over flowing…yesssssssss, nice.
Lokesh, I am not trying to have EVERY fucking answer for events I was never part of. Men always want to makes some kind theory for the whole mankind.
Kranti, I am happy to have you back, even I have been teasing you a little bit:D it just uplifts to read you. Not that I would drop it…”if he has to take poison to leave the body then it seems his enlightenment can be questioned” so how in practical terms it would happen then? Of course if not helped, you just know it…but euthanasia is not a suicide, but something else. Well, I do not know what happened. He looked very fragile, like dying people do, for a long time, so of course it could have been “natural” death. We are just playing with all possibilities. Jusr to discus it I guess…
Martyn, I love it what has happened with you now here. I can see you really on:DDD
That is not what can be said about you Detective…can you land down from you OFI hating planet, so that we can meet you as one of us.
So, I have been just very much enjoying reading you this evening.
Thank you for sharing.
shantam, you are enough…soon I will wonder if you would enjoy being christian missionary after all…:D
I want to make it clear that I do NOT know if osho took any nitrous oxide or used any euthanasia. I do not even have any standpoint or opinion to it, I just wanted to discus, if…just to make sure you understand; I like seeing things from many aspects. Hug.
what this abbrevation stands for Fresch.
DDD
D
And you have made all the girls and guys happy with your
yesssssssss, nice
World needs such kind of nuns.
Being old kind of missionary, i had enough in some past life.
hhaahaaahaaaa
hellohugyou
I am not exactly a nun…human being
Fresch ..u mean u woke up in the night and got ze joke !
Vell i hope when you are blowing ze nose in ze dynamische you will zink of all…ze kampfort i bring to u…. mein kampfort given totally frei ….
all the best
Vaclav Havel
and when someone upsets yu remember wait three days ( gurdjieff)
then get revenge (conan the barbarian)
okay now we should have a lottery for who sets the next subject irrespective of the headlines…which we will all ignore as usual…
i suggest a title like
Why and how I’m not Enlightened: Discuss….
and everyone ignores it by discussing why frank hasnt posted again..
…Good Game?
Shantam
By 1981 I’d been living in Poona for six years. Being a sanyassin was my life. When Osho left for the USA it came as a surprise, but it also felt like a new exciting part of the crazy journey was about to begin. The only problem was that I had a very sore back. To cut a very long story short I woke up from a coma in Ruby Hall Clinic. I’d lost 30 kilos of weight. The doctors had used a dirty needle to take a blood sample and infected me with Typhoid and Hepatitis, but that was not the worst of it. I was paralyzed from the waist down.
It took four months in intensive care in the UK for a specialist to determine what was wrong with me. I was in so much pain I was given morphine every day. It was discovered that I had a tuberculoid tumor on the inside of my spine. I was very close to death, which at the time looked to me like the easy way out.
It took me 18 agonizing months to learn to tie my shoelaces. By mid 1983 I was learning to dance again.
Somewhere during that time a gradual disillusionment with the sanyass movement began to come over me. I felt like I had been surfing a colossal tidal wave with my sanyassin friends and fallen into the depths of a very dark and dangerous part of the ocean. My orange friends kept on riding that wave into a blazing sunset. When it came to needing real help in my life my sanyassin friends were too busy riding that wave to pay any attention to what had befallen me. I understood perfectly, for I was just like them. The help I needed came from my family in Scotland, my beloved wife and a team of dedicated medical people. One doctor in particular showed me that I was quite a fool when it came to matters of the spirit. To all intents and purposes he was an enlightened man and I have him to thank for saving my life and helping me to awaken to certain realities of the human condition.
Meanwhile, the ridiculous circus and waste of money and resources that was known as Rajneeshpuram was well under way. I never went there because I was busy trying to get my life together after having spent a decade in India trying to find myself. The eighties were a difficult time for me and it came to a head when I ended up, due to my own brand of stupidity, in a maximum security prison. In the space of a few years I had moved from the most loving society that has existed in recent times to the most hate-filled environment you can imagine. Looking back I realize I had to wade through all that hellish swamp to get to where I am now. Some might simply say it was my karma.
In 1991 my wife returned to Poona. She participated in a few groups and left the ‘Osho Resort’ feeling that the spirit that had once suffused every atom of the place had also left, leaving only traces of what had once taken place there. She travelled to Lucknow and met H W Poonja. When she returned home to Ibiza, I noticed immediately that something wonderful had happened to her. ‘You have to come and meet this man’, she said. I groaned inwardly having had enough of India and the search for enlightenment to last me for a lifetime. It was therefore that, a couple of months later, I was quite surprised to find myself sitting at Poonjaji’s feet.
On the scene in Lucknow there were a lot of old school Osho sanyassins. There were also a lot of weird stories circulating about what had been going on behind the scenes in Osho’s personal life, the culmination of which had been the tragic death of Ma Yoga Vivek and of course Osho’s leaving the body. I stood back from this and examined what I could remember about my relationship with Osho. My conclusions were and still are this: Osho was the most remarkable man I have ever had the pleasure of meeting. What he took from me was a pile of accumulated nonsense that I was only too happy to part with. What he gave to me would need a good poet to describe, so suffice to say he taught me what I needed to know about the world’s religions and spiritual teachers, that everything in life is transient, that you never know what is a blessing or a curse in life and finally how to face the mystery of death. Osho also had helped make me open to what Poojaji had to teach: that truth is universal and that the master will always manifest as a person if the need for a physical manifestation of what lies within is needed.
When I left Lucknow I felt that a circle that had first began developing in my youth had finally closed. For some time I lived with the feeling that life is absolutely perfect, that there was no need to think about God or enlightenment or any of the big deal stuff.
And now? Well…what to say? Everyday life is the path. Chopping wood and fetching water is the way. I believe in miracles because I am one.
I trust this has satisfied your curiosity.
Swami Anand Lokesh.
You would never catch me anywhere near Koregaon Park and the Osho Resort. So it is no personal loss to me if the continuing problems worsen. It is a deep irony that the people that are trying to shut down the voice of truth and social justice shall be the ones to be exposed to possible suffering. There is no chance that I will be consuming volumes of tap water during a neo-Wow event. There is no chance that I will have my legs pulverised and scattered to the far corners of the resort by a bomb.
Yes it is like moths too the flame. This is unfortunate but it is difficult when a mule is also blind. What gets me is those that flock to the flame because they are convinced by the media and the believers that it is actually a diamond they are heading towards. Yes the stubborn and thick skinned have to learn the hard way. (I have no expectation whatsoever that some people commenting on this site will get this, but here I am refering to Fresch, Kranti, Shantam, and many others). I just do not think that it is fair that innocent people suffer. That is what really gets to me, even more than the ignorant minds of the flock. Of course the source of this harm is another issue.
Lokesh thanks for sharing about your life journey.. I dont know why ..When you hear someone narrating his / her life journey with such intensity and openess it expands me..more than any meditation can do..
I full agree with you on the points.. although i couldnt be with Osho when he was in body or with any other master for that matter.. i had been reading / listening / watching and breathing Osho for the last 15 years plus.. Just to get a taste of same teaching from different words i started listening to all new age masters like Adyashanthi and Mooji and ET..Althought they are are nowehere close to Osho who is too vast ..
Increasignly i realise that there is nothing beyond this daily life , the reality which is there infront your eyes.. If the ME has to disappear for awakening to happen then i an not going to achieve it with that ME.. In that sense i feel Osho is remarkable for making people enjoying the life journey every moment and live totally rather getting hung up in the mind regarding enlightenment etc.. His four letter jokes in the evening meetings were master strokes to kill any seriouness and headiness people may pick up reg enlightenment..So i am actually starting to appreciate Osho more now than ever
Fresch.. Thanks.. What is that D anyway?
” so how in practical terms it would happen then? Of course if not helped ”
I dont have a clue..But after listening to Osho i feel an enlightenment man can leave his body by his own awareness..sort of awareness dropping the body because it is no longer fit or needed .. something like that.. I am not able to digest that He needs poison to drop his body after all His talks about the concious leaving of body and all those ZEN stories about how masters leave body , standing upside down etc
You are not a Nun.. What about being a None.. Haha
Yes Shantam.. I do feel another ten years of life to Osho would have done some major ( positive ) changes to this planet..
‘Shantam and Russian Boobs’ will be a good thread i suppose.. ( Take it easy )
Swami Detective..I do understand your points regarding safety form terror attacks.. althought i may not see eye to eye with you reg other points.. But then the issue of terrorism is too big and concerened administrators in any organization or city which is a target have their own ways of dealing with it….I am not naive to think that the guys incharge of major organizations dont even understand ‘ terrorism ‘ and its fall outs..
Thanks with tears in the eyes, Swami Anand Lokesh.
To chop the woods carry the water, but what a fire walk before all this.
You have ended your biographical note with, “I trust this has satisfied your curiosity.”
It is not just curiosity, but knowing and feeling life in its vivid dimensions. And it looks inspite of reality Tv´s life, still moves somewhere else, in the veins of living beings and few of them we come to know on the path of inner awakening.
And what was that stupidity which landed you in the high security prison after a long and painful recovery.
Your Wife seems like a remarkable woman who stood with you in thick and thin.
And after Poona ji, you still feel the craving of meeting few other “masters” or feel like rest of the walk has to be walked with the Non masters like people?
Kranti and Shantam, thanks for your kind words.
Shantam you ask. And after Poona ji, you still feel the craving of meeting few other “masters” or feel like rest of the walk has to be walked with the Non masters like people?
I’d like to go on a pilgrimage to the Ramana ashram in Tamil nadu. As to your question I do believe I have a quote from one of my unpublished works. Perhaps published by year’s end. Here goes.
No need to feel concerned about finding a guru. When the seeker is ready, the guru appears. A real guru never invites anybody. He or she lets the seeker come. In other words, this means that when you are ready to discern it, you will find the teacher beside you and you’ll recognize him or her by the silence which surrounds them, because realized people are nearly always quiet. Remember also that a stupid person can teach you, a beggar on a street corner, a thief, a fool, a wicked man, a child In fact, everyone we meet, no matter how much life experience we think they might have or have not, can teach us something. That is, if we know how to watch and listen. Recognize all beings as mentors, including the animals. Learn love from the cooing doves, faithfulness from a gentle dog, how to move and stretch from a cat, patience from a web-spinning spider as she weaves her concentric net over the void and, last but not least, study Mother Nature in her totality for she is the source of endless creativity. In ancient times our early ancestors recognized that this world’s natural environment was an integral part of life and death’s great mystery and therefore treated nature with respect. We in turn do well if we follow their example, for every aspect of God’s creation has something to teach us. If your heart is open, life will always provide you with the experiences that are necessary for the evolution of consciousness. As long as there is a need for an outer manifestation of that which is within, the guru will always appear.
Movie Scene: Last day of court proceedings in case of State versus Sheela and Gang Pty Ltd
Prosecutor Swami SheerLuck Homer Sampson has put forward an impressive case based on never heard before clues, queues, innuendoes, and the great reasoning of The Enlightenment. Swami SheerLuck was without doubt he would win against the evil weight of the Dark Ages.
Defence demon Swami ShoutAtEm Goliath and Ma Fresch Truolip were about to make their closing remarks. Judge Judy Jiltered Jitterbrain Jam Em in the Jugular was growing impatient and was about to throw Sheela and Gang Pty Ltd into an endless hard labour camp in a mine under a fault line on the Tibetan plateau when suddenly….
Swami PsychoBabbleButtock and Swami Veer-ish Sideways from the inHumaniversity started a raucous Encounter training with the key witnesses. Aferwards, with little left of the court-room and its prestigious furnishings, the key witnesses changed their accounts. It turns out that it was just a mash of magic mushroom mania caused by Swami Loopy Lockesh playing some far out music at the full loony moon party. The weapons used in the mosh pit were actually just pillows. It was all a projection.
It had been a big week for Swami Veer-ish Sideways. He had already successfully hosted Papa Barbituate the Sexteen and his flock of fondling Mishaps for an Aum marathon. Afterwards Papa and the Mishaps voted to enshrine Celabation as their new code of conduct, and Zorba the Geek as their new holy text.
[Back at the courtoom] Just as the last key witness screamed at the top of his (and her) voice that it was all a projection, a secret electronic money transfer was made from Swami Juggling Jinfidelity Jailesh in Swishzerland to the inHumaniversity in Holeland.
Then, Swami Veer-ish Sideways whispered a curt few phrases in the Defence teams ears. A slight yet confident smile grew on the faces of Swami ShoutAtEm and Ma Fresch Truolip.
With the key witnesses now engaged to be married in an orgy of wild celebation, Swami SheerLuck’s confidence was beginning to waver.
Judge Judy Jilt was growing impatient beyond her usual schizzoid self.
Swami ShoutAtEm quietly and solemnly spoke…..Judge & Judy, I implore you to see reason. The for-end-sick “evidence” is but from ga ga Guru-dom. It is all a pillowy projection.
Ma Fresch Trulip quickly followed up…..Judge & Judy, I beg of you to make sense of this matter. The for-end-sick “evidence” is but from la la Therapy-land. It is all a pillowy projection.
Judge Judy Jilt immediately saw the flame and sentenced Swami SheerLuck to 5 life-times spinning around on the ferris-wheel in Fantasy-Land. She then gave the keys to the United States of America to Sheela and Gang Pty Ltd.
shantam….
would you recommend your life path as a babe-magnet one.Seems it worked very very fine on that one.
…though i might just use the looking at nature technique instead of the max -secure jail one to follow.
thanks for laying down those trax
gotta go now….
eeeeeezzzyyyyyyyyy
PREVIEW
CHARTER FOR NEW INNER CIRCLE
Beloved Friends,
Instead of bashing the OFI, i feel to write, something like rough draft for the “Charter for New inner Circle” as i am sure present one is operating beyond its expiry date.
I have no mandate from anybody, but when Love for the master and His people, needed the mandate from kings and queens?
It will cover all the points in typical sannyas language; inner crilce, daily sticker price, banning policy, Celebration and festivity, death celebrations etc.
Below is the preview of two main points.
Your suggestions are welcome at my email address, i am using the most.
Suggestions from His people will be the backbone of new life around Osho.
Love
shantam
astroiqbal@gmail.com
INNER CIRCLE– The managing body will consist of 20 members. These members are from different social economical backgrounds and countries and the common thread that binds them is the Passion for Osho. They are doing this work as part of their meditation and not for money or power and are capable to finance their basic needs. Ashram will offer only the room and the worker stickers.
As these people are one among the equals, their voice is not subordinated to some super boss. Decision will be taken with common consent and in case of tie, the core group of 5 members known as Management team can decide with the majority opinion of 3 to2. The tenure of the Management team members will be of 2 years. After all, these people also need time for personal contemplation and private life.
In the age of high tech communication technology, it is not necessary for all of them to be stationed in Pune though it is convenient if the core group members remain present in Pune.
INNER CIRCLE MEMBERS– Many of the original inner circle members are still around, but were made inactive by the dictatorial attitude of minority stakes presently running the lose making and under nourished place.
A call will be given to these people to come and share what they have learnt at the feet of Osho. New people, who have substantial experience with Osho can take the place, if the oldies have no more interest in the circle.
The Movie
Sw Aby Detecto Hare was walking leisurely oneday when he finds himself in a ditch..Managing to get himself out he falls again the swimming pool of a SPA..Gets up and sees the contaminated water and becomes furious..Prepares and report and submits to Sw Dyan Brooman who pulls out the most dangerous weapon the world has seen, the broomstick and chases him away..Dejected Sw Aby Detecto Hare walks back
Intermission
Sw Aby Detecto Hare decide to gather media support and approaches New New thread-Same Same content.com. He was happy to see a bunch of highly evolved souls and presents his case in a new thread.. But all the intelligent souls copy paste the content from previous thread.. Seeing no takers for his work Sw Aby Detecto Hare enlarges the scope of his report and adds how the SPA administration and world vision went wrong.. Still Seeing no takers he blames the SPA for government policy failures to prevent violene..Still no takers .. Sw Aby Detecto Hare goes mad and gets himself admitted in an asylum..But he gets a new lidentity and becomes script writer..He had a natural talent anyway
The following is the status of few intelligent and evolved souls who walked here and there in the movie and called themselves actors
Sir Frank Murrel becomes a poet and ends up drinking heavily..
Professor Anto Quin decides to preach teenagers on pshychology rather than pursuing a acting career as walking too much in a movie is heavy work for his age
Sw Boob Dhillan goes to china searching for Bodhidharma’s shoes
Sw Anur Amitab goes to Honalulu and on the way falls down and is hit on the head. when he gets up he becomes software expert and specialises in ddos in world.com
Hi Highness Satya Dev and Sw Karter Kartar open their own film studios and once in a while checks the popular site of New New thraed-Same Same content.com
Sw Lok Lok , Marten Damn and Ma Fresh Face are hoping to see a sequel to the original movie
the Master of Masters laughs from heaven and says .. i told you to buy the no mind drink and take.. Sw Shant Am and Sw Krack Krant is searching where to buy the no mind drink
Not a happy ending to the movie.. But what IS is IS
Kalindi died. She started the ‘Miracle of Love’ cult, from where (through Satyarthi and later Turiya and Rafia) the ‘Miracle of Love’ cult was established. The Miracle of Love recruiting tactics are very agressive. We do not need another cult, be aware of the hungry wolves!
Thanks Anand.. I never knew about these people,, Their site certainly seems aggressive .. any other links through which i can learn a liitle bit about this guys.?. It will be good learing..
Ah yes and I forgot to mention, that through Satyarthi and Turiya the ‘Miracle of Love’ became the ‘Path of Love’, the latest cult within the cult. Same story, wolves chasing sheep….. this time sannyasi wolves chasing all kind of sheeps.
it’s a bit too much for me, she died last night…
Anand you have written, “Kalindi died.”
There is no news in Google about her death.
How you authenticate your rumour.
Lokesh your sharing is lovely…I come back to it latter
Fresch….I look forward to it.
So far I only saw this posted on Facebook. I also wonder, since I found nothing on Google…..
The paragraph below is the only reference about Kalindi´s death, i could find
Kalindi died on April 18th, 2010 of disseminated intravascular coagulation precipitated by kidney failure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_Love
Interesting is the fact that her official website has not mentioned, neither there are some obitury articles by her disciples, well wishers and foes alike.
Whether people like her philosphy or not, she made her space in the over crowded market of love and liberation.
In this age of internet when news travel faster than sound, there is no whisper. Not death but no news or views about a well known modren day spiritual “Master”, that too from America is a surprise.
Kranti I have rambled here and there and everywhere, and though you cannot find it on Fakebook, I had takers everywhere I went, over hill and dale, East and West, Left and Right, Devotional and Zen, Modern and Mystic, Government and Individual. Thanks for the help.
Lokesh, if you still think my sword is sharp perhaps a kind word in your publishing agents ear? Dorrance Publishing agreed to publish but then I would have to find the cash to back it.
premabhay4@hotmail.com
Guys, I do not know how to start a new thread in this site. I am not as nerd as you are. …
But there is an exciting youtube video of Arun’s interview with Nirman ( Zouddha.com) in http://www.oshotapoban.com. I am really upset that none of you are even noticing and talking about it and wasting your time in many trivial things. some of the things he said are like kick on the butt for every sannyasin. Take it in positive way. we do not want Prem fucky’s (bubby) comment on that. Its some thing coming out of a friend of an enlightened master like Osho.
Thanks Abhay..I just posted it for fun..Take it easy. Thats the maximum writing skill for me..
Prem Jashan
You just have to mail the content for new thread to edit@sannyasnews.com amd request editors to publish.
There is a critical response site on Kalindi which may interest few
http://www.miracleoflove.org/
Well, Lokesh I can understand better certain sadness about you. I think most sanyasins experience the euphoria “riding the wave”, sharing the journey being blessed out, also the new sanyasins, even they seem to do it in more grounded way:) however, I am happy I really jumped at young age. Also, most people experience this “return to society” as some kind of collapse or crash (I did too).
Well, you seem to have gone through some really dark spaces..but all the time you had your woman with you, so there is a huge blessing for both of you.This question helping each other’s when we are needy would really require a long own discussion. Normal people experience the same when they go bankruptcy or divorce.
and we have to come back many times….
You know I met a artist guy (not sanyasin) in the bar (I think 1992) who told me he had strange experience; he had had a dream where he was dancing with an Indian man who was calling him, a month latter he met this man in Indian railway station and was invited to his home where they had “incredible talks over tea or chai”, the old man was Poonja (he met Poonja before he became famous). Some friends went there latter, I was thinking about it because he looks sweet, but it’s the same like with Tibetans; I love them, but I like to be with sanyasins:D
What is a bit shocking for me right now is that found this Kalindi 3-4 days ago somewhere, then I wrote here, then she is dead, and yesterday somebody with her connected with me.
So, when you write about Poonja, my feeling is very strong; we are all connected. It’s really scary, huhhhhh…
Spiritual path is so difficult, a lot of hurting happens on the way. It would be important to be able to deal with the issues somewhere else but therapy – between people, like here. It was very profound sharing, thank you Lokesh.
I might come to Portugal by the way.
Fresch, thanks for your heartfelt post.
I considered writing what I did before posting it. It is often the case that when you let the heart speak a person coming from the mind will trash what you say. Fortunately on this blog everyone is pretty cool when it all boils down and that is what keeps me posting here.
Yes—Portugal could be a blast. I am still not 100% sure if I will be able to attend due to having some possible commitments that might take priority. Time will tell.
Meanwhile, it is a beatiful morning in the north of Scotland and not a cloud of volcanic ash in sight.
What I am hearing from other friends as well at the moment is that people want to stay connected with normal society, but be with friends more – in an ordinary way – like what you described “Chopping wood and fetching water” that’s how I want to create my life too. Yes.
“everyone is pretty cool when it all boils down….” hhaaaahhaahhhaaaa
Prem Jashan. I’m not a great fan of Nirman’s interviews. He is without doubt a charming guy but he often fails to guide the people he interviews creativly and thus the interviews tend to become a bit boring. Nonetheless, I found the interview with Arun interesting, simply because it is perfectly clear that the man is speaking from the heart. Nothing the man said felt like a kick on the butt to me.
What it brings up for me is this. People project all kinds of things onto someone like Osho. I think the best thing that can happen to Osho’s disciples is for them to meet another master. Why so? You are justified in asking. Let me explain.
All spiritual masters are a manifestation of the master within. I haven’t always understood that. I woke up to it when I met another master after my time with Osho. I took the bull by the horns and approached the master directly. In about one minute flat he showed me where I was in regards the spiritual path. I was stuck. I was stuck in the world of bliss. It was time to move on and I did just that.
All the time that I sat at the master’s feet there was vibe, a presence that I always believed to be Osho, but here I was with another master experiencing exactly the same thing. What thing? Well,,,I can only describe it like a cool breeze passing through the most peaceful of places. At first i did what I did before, I projected the responsibility for this vibe on the master. And then, suddenly, I woke up. I saw for the first time in my life that the breeze was none other than my self.
Masters are fingers pointing at the moon. Most seekers have heard that but how come so many don’t move beyond the finger and simply look at the moon directly? I’d say it has something to do with the emotional high one experiences in the guru disciple relationship, which is actually a one-sided relationship, because the guru is simply a reflection of that which is within.
The simple fact is that our true spiritual identity has nothing to do with bliss. For there to be bliss there must be someone there to experience it and the truth has nothing to do with experiences but rather an experiencing. The goose is out! Hanging on to Osho is not what he meant by saying I leave you my dream. If anything that would have been his nightmare. Osho, like all enlightened people, wanted you to wake up to the truth and truth is that you are it. I’m sorry to have to inform you that all those lovely dreams you are having about Osho are kids stuff, that you never knew him in a past life because YOU have never had a past life. The truth is pretty cool when it all boils down. The one who wrote this and the one who is reading it right now are one and the same. Be still and know that thou art that. Ha ha!
Just in case that has not made it clear to you I suggest hitting on the following link.
https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&ik=91eeb880b0&view=att&th=128279c005445763&attid=0.1&disp=attd&zw
Lokesh, Thanks for your response. Its beautiful. I have nothing to refute on what you shared but to add little more.. I want to share the following daily message from mysammasati.
“Understanding is not of the mind: understanding is of the heart. You will have to fall in love.
That’s what sannyas is all about. Falling in love with a Master, for NO reason at all – just for the sheer joy of falling in love with someone who has disappeared, who is no more, who has become a great nothing. Who has become a silence”-Osho
PJ…Great quote.
Isn’t it to fall in love with everybody – for no reason at all? Love you sweeties.
Lokesh.. You had changed the quality of this thread so much.. Thanks for pouring yourself..
I am jealous of people like who sat at the feet of Osho and other masters.. I have to be content with just listening to discourses and reading
Osho himself said he provokes people to move on . to go to pther masters even during his time
Of late i had been listening a lot to Adyashanthi , Mooji and Jeff foster.. When the talk about the reality of this momemnt and the absense of ‘ Me ‘ which is just a belife and energy contraction i saw the truth atleast at a intellectual level.
IT just IS.. Everything seems to be an experience that is being watched , watched .. watched .. having said that because the understanding is very superficial it is sort of dry for me .. Adyashathi used to say awakening has to happen at a more deeper level ie the level of heart for it it to become really functional in your daily life
I was thinking yesterday how many people would have fallen prey to CULTS and how meeting / connecting with a real master is great blessing..
Thanks for people like you , Fresch and Prem Jashan
Kranti, you say…I am jealous of people like who sat at the feet of Osho and other masters.. I have to be content with just listening to discourses and reading
No need for comparison, which is the root of your jealousy. If you have not sat of the feet of an enlightened person in this life it simply means that there is no real need for it. I can 100% guarantee that if a person has a real need to meet an enlightened person it will happen very soon. Besides, meeting awakened people can cause all manner of things to come about. It’s as if the life process becomes accelarated. If you are enjoying a peaceful, untroubled existance enjoy it and give thanks. If you are not, know that it will pass, as everything does in this world.
The people who sit at the feet of masters are the ones who really need it, otherwise it would not happen. In Poona One there was always a thing about sitting close to Osho. The usual subjects were always in the front row in the morning discourse. Then one day the old man blasted them by saying that they were the ones who needed his help the most. I can remember feeling quite smug at the time because I nearly always sat at the back of the hall. When the Rolls drove by that morning it stopped beside where I was sitting for a few moments.
Osho sat with his hands raised in namaste. and looked directly at me for perhaps a minute that felt to me like an eternity. I haven’t felt the same since, Ha ha.
Kranti, if you have the eyes, the supreme teacher is everywhere.
I’ve enjoyed these exchanges that have been taking place on this blog during the past few days. I have to sign out now and leave the small cottage in the Scottish Highlands that has been home for the past ten days. Time to put on my travelling shoes and hit the trail. Adios to all you lovable bloggers for the time being. Maybe catch up with you further on up the long and winding road.
I suffer from enlightenment envy. I suffer from envy not being close to Osho (found my way to pune a month before he left his body). I see things happening around me all the time…I love when people get closer to them selves, any possible ways. However many friends also cut the connections with me because their other masters told so. My friends. However, some of them surprisingly tell at their Internet pages they been with osho ( =you can show you have balls).
My ex boss said his longest relationship is with his female therapist (both “normal “people). it is better to be rooted somewhere. An ex lover dropped me because I did not drop sanyas..
Enlightenment – or even any form of meditation – with osho is difficult…is it really worth it? I see most of ex sanyasin really doing good and connecting, running big groups etc. after they left sanyas.
what do you think. We can do it just by our selves? Is sanyas past? Lokesh you had some interesting points.
Thanks for the love Lokesh.. Have a great time..
” what do you think. We can do it just by our selves ”
Its is very lonely road Fresch.. the longing to be part of Osho is too deep.. And my mind cant concieve of any other master coming close to that vastness and celebartion of life..
What a ride it was for people who were closer to Osho..To think that people who were with him and missed him.. No words to explain that..
I do understand Lokesh.. But my heart refuses to accept that i did miss being with Osho
I was too young then..but did come across Osho name twice in my teens ..but the search and longing and environment was not there.. I fell in Love with Osho in the early ninities few years after he left
Fresh..you said you went to pune one month before Osho left..Did you sit infront of him?
I read very strange story of young woman making so many attempts for years to go to Osho but finally making it one month after Osho left the body.. i read it viha connection.. Strange is the way of life..
Very good Kranti. I am happy you are coming out. From my experience, it has always been these “devotional disciples” who has to compensate. Good for you. No more resort pr-manager. So, let’s see.
Sorry i addressed you as Fresh instead of Fresch.. But anyway Fresh is also good..
” No more resort pr-manager. ” What is that ?
Did you see me as a resort pr-manager earlier?
Kranti,
Right now South India is the fertile land of Gurus. Few are even in the list of ” Most powerful 100 Indians.”
Why don´t you give the try.(lol)
Prem Jashan has shared very heart oriented quotation from Osho.
I just want to know, can one just fall in love by seeing other people falling in Love.
Is love like a Buffet, let me fill my plate because many others are doing it or is it a gang bang!
falling in love with Master(s); is it like a remarriage after the death/divorce. One cherish the moments with the departed soul but can open the heart and body for the new too.
And my personal opinion is that people falling in Love with the dead and gone Osho can still feel cherished; if the melting and meeting point at Pune stays in the form Osho has envisioned.
The warmth, the friction, and the notes among us can uplift the energy and motivate the individual to go on risking and Charevati Chareveti…
ANd i am sure, that was one of the reasons Osho not just spoke but created the space, His space irrespective of all the difficulties.
Yes.. shantaam south India is exploding with all sorts of gurus and scandals..
But for you and me there can not be anyone close to Osho..
I dont see loving Osho as clinging to past or a master who has left the body..No i dont think like that .. It is a love affair which will continue ..
One intesresting news for you shantam..you always used to say how lot of gurus are cropping up after learning few things from osho
Last week a guru was exposed and arrested here..the guy who brought out the scandal told TV that the guru was using Osho books among other to just lift material
Are you talking about Hindu guru Nityananda, who was screwing a movie actress in the name of devotional service?
Just read in the news, this celibate Swami was asking his female disciples to sign an agreement.
MAy be Parmod of OFI, New York can tell his bosses to have a similar clause-
“Volunteer understands that the program may involve the learning and practice of ancient tantric secrets associated with male and female ecstasy, including the use of sexual energy for increased intimacy/spiritual connection, pleasure, harmony and freedom. Volunteer understands that these activities could be physically and mentally challenging, and may involve nudity, access to visual images, graphic visual depictions, and descriptions of nudity and sexual activity, close physical proximity and intimacy, verbal and written descriptions and audio sounds of a sexually oriented, and erotic nature, etc.” (Read: Chappal offering for ‘sex swami’)
It also says: “By reading and signing this addendum, Volunteer irrevocably acknowledges that he/she is voluntarily giving his unconditional acceptance of such activities and discharges the Leader and the Foundation, and anyone else not specifically mentioned here but directly or indirectly involved in the organization, management or conduct of any such programs from any liability, direct or indirect, arising from such activities.”
http://www.ndtv.com/news/cities/swami-made-followers-sign-sex-contract-20760.php
A reminder from Osho. I was present when he spoke these words and I’ve carried them with me for a long time.
Soon I will not be here either. And remember, I would like to remind my disciples especially: if you really love me, when I am gone I will direct you to people who will be still alive. So don’t be afraid of that. If I send you to Tibet or if I send you to China or if I send you to Japan or to Iran go. And don’t say that because you belong to me you cannot belong to another real Master. Just look in the eyes and you will find my eyes again. The body will not be the same but the eyes will be the same.
If your journey is not complete with me while I am here, if something is still to be done, completed, then don’t be afraid. By dropping me you will not be betraying me. In fact, by not dropping me and by not following the real, the alive Master, you will be betraying me. Keep it in mind.
As we used to say back then: Jai Bhagwan.
Over and out.
Beautiful Lokesh ..Beautiful..
How many Masters have said that..
Yes Shantam..same guy..
Lokesh..not sure whether you will read this before starting the travel
See link..an interview by Steve Jobs of Apple.. i know it is not directly relevant,,But his interview and wisdom is something closer what we discuss here ..especially his last point on death
http://getahead.rediff.com/slide-show/2010/apr/23/slide-show-3-achievers-steve-jobs-address-at-stanford.htm
“if you really love me, when I am gone I will direct you to people who will be still alive….” I never heard osho say this. Where is it? was it pune1? sounds odd to me.
No, I am not going to go oshosaioshosaidoshosaid…
I share with fellow travelers..that’s enough
The beauty with Osho is, out of his hundred thousands of quotations one can choose according to the taste, season and state of being.
There is nothing wrong in this, other than the fact when someone want to impose his ideas over the others.
I think such kind of obediancy is not expected in any of His words.
ANy way, I have asked Lokesh before also to tell the name of the book, when he quoted some Master. Here also i ask, ” Can you tell us, in which discourse of late 70´s, Osho has spoken the above words?”
And do you think this quotation becomes the bench mark, the essential theme and essence of His teachings, sorry no teachings, only the gossips amongst the friends.
“if you really love me, when I am gone I will direct you to people who will be still alive….”
Hey Osho?
Have your forgotten me, the frequent flyer of your airlines.
ANd i see other hundreds of thousands of people waiting.
May be i can forward you the list of still alive Masters. I just need to go to Google.
May be at your command center up in the sky, internet connections have not reached yet.
If it comes, please show to Buddha and Jesus, few nice XXX movies.
PS- Don´t bother to find still alive people for your people.
They are shrewd and clever enough to sell combs to the bald and ice to Eskimos.
Shantam, this is what I mean. We always come from our own process, and find evidence to support it. I have found it difficult to live simultaneously inner and outer, so I am trying to live the other and drop the other all the time…osho was creating a whole man, what a challenge, very difficult to live in my life.
What I love with your writing Shantam, is the innocence with osho and sanyas you have, even you are trying to be tough and cool about it.
No, I am not going to go oshosaioshosaidoshosaid…
I share with fellow travelers..that’s enough- Fresch
“DDD”
“if you really love me, when I am gone I will direct you not to go on chattering, oshosaioshosaid…
Simply share with your fellow travelers…that´s enough.”
Osho; 19th January 1990
“D”
Thank you Shantam, that was my position when I took sanyas. Then just few days after osho left his body, everybody was saying it’s all over. For me it was a beginning. It still is…new beginning every moment.
Fresch,
By the way, what it means when you end the sentence with, DDD or D?
For me it was a beginning. It still is…new beginning every moment…
This is with so many of us, even those who came to Osho much later or who will come in 2110.
I hope, till than parrots of the parrots will be also gone, and finally ashram will become again the place for sharing the foot steps; the fragrance of Osho´s life and vision.
Humanity deserve a spiritual place which is not being dictated by some kind of high command, some Pope, but the will and intelligence of its people.
Official conformation about Kalindi
Shelley Geffen
mailed-by miracle.org
8:27 PM (3 hours ago)
Dear Shantam,
Yes, it is true that Kalindi left her body very peacefully, with no suffering, on Sunday morning the 18th of April. She said that she wanted everyone to know that she can be with all of us now without the limitation of the body.
Love, Shelley
Lokesh’s quote goes against everything that many Osho sannyassins have been conditioned to believe in. Yes Osho has said that He will be available to you even after leaving the body, if you go deep enough. Surprise, surprise, Osho has also said to get over it and find a living Master. The likes of Shantam, Fresch, and Kranti have already cried foul. What text is it? When did he utter these words? I don’t believe you? He probably said those things under coercion from someone! Ah, no, that was when he was being his old devotional self and he changed to new-age zen! You folks are nuts, but you are not alone.
There was nearly a major revolt in the late 90’s by a collective of Osho therapists. Turiya (Path of Love founder) was visiting another so-called Master. Jayesh sought to shut this down by offering, from his majestic position as Chairman of the Inner-Circle, that Turiya was not going deep enough, was only going to come to harm by visiting a fake guru, and that this was Osho’s position (based on Jayesh’s deep insight into Osho).
[Jayesh] He shares that many of His people who were with Him in the body would not make the jump from the presence of the master in the body to the absence of the master in the body. That for the mind of many, the gap created would be too deep and too wide. That in the mystery of existence, they would not understand that they had received from existence exactly what was required of the Master’s bodily presence. And that in this pain of the mind they would travel the world sitting at the feet of every idiot – Osho’s words. Clear, accepting and compassionate.
[Jayesh] He also says that His new people, who would be coming after He left the body, would not have the need of His physical presence – again in the mystery of existence, if they had that need they would have come earlier. He says existence calls people to the work of an enlightened One at exactly the right moment. That because of countless generations of religions and priests, we are conditioned that we need the other and as a result we give the other our responsibility. That his new people coming would be very fragile in their potential to be totally responsible and be courageous enough to walk alone, feeling the presence of the Master without the need of His body.
[Jayesh] It is clear to us that it is best for Osho’s work that you not offer your work in Osho Centers, nor as an Osho therapist at this time. The doors of course are always open to you as a meditator .
In August of 1998, Jayesh sent a copy of the letter to all Osho Meditation Centres throughout the world.
Turiya, after a time of reflection, came to a view that was in accordance with Jayesh, and was deeply apologetic, and very clearly from the heart.
Turiya accepted Jayesh’s position, and presumably so to did all the Osho Meditation Centres.
Now we have Lokesh quoting Osho as saying you would be going against His wishes if you did not go to a living Master, if you rather stayed with a dead Master. So who is Jayesh to enforce just one of Osho’s array of views on any given subject? Is it Jayesh that has the authority and capacity to decree that all Osho therapists must subscribe to his personal views, based on the quotes of Osho that he likes. Turiya felt the need to visit a living Master. Jayesh, in his letter, actually denied Turiya the chance to grow, and in accordance with Osho (read Lokesh’s quote). How can it be good than for an Osho therapist to have their wings clipped and therefore be less in a capacity to do their work in helping people that come to Osho? Turiya accepted Jayesh’s view of Osho and was therefore restricted in spiritual growth. This can only seek to also be a dis-service to all those that did (and do) the Path of Love.
OIF would prefer that a quote like Lokesh’s never again see the light of day. It seeks to take aware their entire power base. People like Jayesh and Amrito have no capacity to give an inspirational discourse, to offer new meditations or therapies, or to drown you in their silence. There entire power base is a monopolisation of Osho’s legacy and resources. And here we have a quote from Osho that is an arrow into the great myth. Go forth and find another living Master.
Jayesh needs to enforce his interpretation of Osho because if he does not, he stands to lose his power base. He will lose control of Osho therapists, some Osho Meditation Centres, and ultimately Osho’s legacy (dream).
Not even Turiya had the sense to see beyond Jayesh’s imposition of the select way he would like to view Osho, the select way he would like everyone to view Osho. Then of course we have the likes of Shantam, Fresch, and Kranti, that have an incapacity to give even a moments reflection without denouncing, ridiculing, and ostracising anyone or anything that stands against this imposition (even Osho himself).
Can not some people see some sense? What of Turiya now? What of all the Osho Meditation Centres that still follow Jayesh’s interpretation of how things should be? Yes it may likely be that a dead Master like Osho is of immense benefit, especially when there are so many charlatans. Still, the people who have fallen in line behind Jayesh and his dream (fantasy) are not following Osho, and nor are they following their own heart. They are following Jayesh and he is the real charlatan.
Given enough time, any evidence of quotes like the one from Lokesh will be removed from record. They are very dangerous. Such quotes will be removed from the texts, and even removed from discourses. In this way, after a while, Osho will become just the way Jayesh and his team would like him to be, and they can hold onto their grip on religious power. It is an abuse of power and a desecration of the spirit and legacy of the Master called Osho.
Jayesh is seeking to maintain his grip on power over ‘Osho’ by enforcing select views and interpretations. This is just one more example. Jayesh says it is the cunning priests that have for centuries held onto power by demanding that they be worshipped (just like the fake gurus). Jayesh says don’t worship these cunning priests and fake gurus. He says Osho will be with you when and if you need him, if you are available. Ah yes, and Jayesh is offering Osho’s dream to you all.
What actually is happening is that he is the one who is demanding people adopt a particular and narrow view of Osho, a view that funny enough protects his religious power as Chairman of the Inner-Circle, and sole care-taker of Osho’s legacy. He is cutting up Osho the way it suits him, and has fed this to Osho sannyassins. They have eaten it like candy, and it is actually a form of religion brought to you by Jayesh. It is a religious conditioning based on Osho. How long did it take to form another religion? Who is the real cunning priest?
Correction Sw Detective.. Kranti did NOT cry foul..
All i said is my love for Osho is not allowing me to conceive of another masters.. I do listen to lot of other modern day masters and when the time comes i will sit at the feet of another master..although love and gratitude for Osho is the basis for my life ..There is no contradiction here
The Osho quote by Lokesh is very beautiful
I have read similar quotes by Osho.. he even said he provokes people to move on when he was in body also.. He even said he creates situations out of love when people will move on and find other masters… Thats is why He is Osho.. What is the problem in it?
I totally disagree with Sw Detective on other points also.. Infact Pune is the only place wher i dont see blind following getting encouraged. they are very clear … Stand on your own legs ..
No organization which needs blind following will do the kind of things Pune has done..
My heart says it will be good to see a Pune 1 or 2 type of environment.. thats is because i missed out and trying to go back.. BUT the REALITY is Pune 1 , Pune 2 and Osho in body are gone.. Life moves on
To me they Pune carries on doing the work of Osho with love for him.. Osho’s work is not not ordinary adminstrative one to be carried on easily.. It is the most challenging of all..
Yes Kranti there is no contradiction between Osho being the basis of your life, and listening to and visiting a living Master. Jayesh on the other hand as enforced a viewpoint that would make there appear to be a contradiction. A sincere follower of Osho, even one that has never and will never meet Osho, must not go to another so-called Master. Either they are not meditating deep enough or they are not an authentic disciple. It creates a guilt trip out of anyone who dares to (apparently) move away from Osho. It also forces people to (apparently) stay with Osho. Actually it is just a cunning mental trip to maintain his hold on power.
A Master would send you anywhere, even another Master, if that is what you needed. A priest on the other hand is interested in building the flock, not on helping you become free of your herd mentality.
Yes again Kranti, wow you must get a prize, two stars for your forehead. The resort is a rare place and does demand that you stand on your own two feet. If you bow down in gratitude you are pursuing Osho’s old way of devotion. OK so it is allowed, but it is also scorned. The resort also demands that you think a certain way. Jayesh has for example coercively created the belief that to go to a living Master, even perhaps a disciple of Osho, is a kind of betrayal and a spiritual lacking. Why is it that all the other Osho views about visiting other Masters do not have space? Are they actually lies made up by Osho, and only Jayesh knows what true words he uttered?
Let us say with the Turiya example I get to choose which quote Jayesh has to use to back up his position. OK so I give him the quote from Lokesh. With such a viewpoint, I find it hard to come to the conclusion that Turiya should not conduct Osho therapy because she has visited another Master. Jayesh goes further than this and generalises by including sannyassins that have been with Osho, and even one’s that have not, in the picture. This is a gross inflation of his little piece of the pie, to say the least.
Mostly wrong this time Kranti…..no stars for a naughty boy. Yes the resort clearly does not encourage blind following in the way you mean, yet you have a naïve understand of the subject. Jayesh, Amrito, and the resort, encourages you to think, act, and be a certain way. This is a set of beliefs (just like any religion). It is not your own understanding developed from your own journey. This is what is referred to when any person or organisation encourages blind following. It is the essence of organised religion and of cult followings. The mind still works in a dull kind of a way. It is just that it is stuck on repeat of track 1. It is called blind following, and is strongly encouraged by Jayesh, Amrito, and the resort.
On any given subject, Osho has offered a vast variety of insights which are often times contradictory. It is why you cannot create a religion or a cult out of Osho. Of course if you choose to ignore certain viewpoints, and reinforce others, then you can create a belief system, and a religion.
Recall Amrito’s delightful little bundle of wisdom about how you are free to be yourself at the resort. All the opportunities to act in ways others then his idea of Osho zen has either been removed or is clearly discouraged. For example you are not free to look at a picture of Osho or spend time at his Pagoda (because the pictures have been removed and the pagoda demolished). To bow down in gratitude is the old way, or worse, is the way of the old religions. From Jayesh we even have it that having never met Osho, it is that he is available for me. That is a nice idea, and is also a nice idea for sannyassins who have loved Osho deeply. What about the idea that you are free to visit or listen to another Master?
Out of the vast array of physical queues and viewpoints from Osho, you are free to use the select ones that Jayesh and Amrito have chosen. Actually they have decided that physical queues are out. They have also decided that devotion is out in general, with of course a few glaring exceptions. They justify their decisions on supposedly practical affairs based on the words of Osho they like. What about all the quotes of going to another Master, and even whilst he was in the body? Osho must have been on nitrous when he talked about the idea of visiting another Master!
It was endlessly argued that OK we accept that Osho had a devotional path, but that was in the old days, and his last few years was all Zen. Funny thing is Osho spoke about the profound devotional aspect of Zen. Even funnier is that this supposedly devotional free, stand on your own to feet Osho zen brought to you by Jayesh, Amrito, and friends, has some strange components to it.
Did you read the quotes of what Jayesh said in the previous passage? Jayesh has a very devotional view of Osho. I would even say it is rather extreme. I can understand if you had actually met Osho….if you gazed into the endless depth of his eyes, and were showered by his presence. Still, many will concede that even so, really what is left once the body is gone is not the presence of the Master, but rather the infinite awareness. Yet Jayesh even holds the view that people who have never met Osho can connect fully with Osho. To go somewhere else demonstrates a foolishness, a lacking, or ingratitude. If there ever was a division between Zen and Devotion, I would put this mentality in the Devotion category. So what is it, we have Osho zen with a bit of devotion thrown in. How does that work? Who figured that one out and spread its ideology (belief system/religion/cult) whilst ignoring the other viewpoints clearly expressed by Osho?
“Most of us who fancy ourselves as god’s gift to humanity are victims of hubris.
What is it that the super smart need never to forget? The best and the brightest, those with the most precocious and dazzling minds, are frequently their own worst enemies. Osho Ashram was brought down by Osho Resort.”
BUT the REALITY is Pune 1 , Pune 2 and Osho in body are gone.. Life moves on
To me they Pune carries on doing the work of Osho with love for him.. Osho’s work is not not ordinary administrative one to be carried on easily.. It is the most challenging of all..
Kranti Dear Life moves on with upward whirl or the downward spiral.
You cannot go on carrying work for Osho by sidelining those multitude of people, who were groomed by Osho himself.
In the middle ages such acts were being done by complete blood bath, now it was done with the help of financial consultants, highly paid lawyers etc.
Simple fact as i see; What we call Osho´s work at Pune is a complete interpretation of Jayesh´s vision about Osho.
It has nothing to do with Osho or His people.
And the downward side is that not many people are buying this interpretation. It simply does not touch the heart on deeper level.
And Jayesh has a complete right to live His passion for Osho and create something out of it.
It is His birth right. Same is true with Arun, Atul, Neelam, Veeresh and others.
But this should be done independently of Pune?
Pune should have remained 24 Carrots Osho.
And to Run Pune is a most challenging Job?
It simply shows you have not seen its working.
It becomes challenging when driver Punctures the Volvo Bus and people have to push till the destination.
Through trials and errors Osho left behind a well oiled machine which was derailed by the inflated ego of its people.
Those who live with ego die with ego.
Kranti I seem to recall you went to a wedding where there was a connection with a blind religious following. If say everyone is strongly encouraged or even required to perform all kinds of great religious duties (such as toe-nail kissing), then this would be one aspect of a blind following. A physical act or acts would become engrained in each follower’s mind-set. They would also presumably have a little bible from the guru that gets them to think a certain way. This would typically be called a cult. If it gets big enough you might like to call it a religion.
If a religious group offers the opportunity to bow in gratitude to a living Master (or perhaps a symbol of some kind), that is not necessarily associated with your idea of blind following. So long as it is clear that you are free to choose otherwise, that there are other things to do (say sitting in lotus position and staring at a wall), then it is not imposing anything on the individual. Of course it is assumed that whatever is on offer is somehow from a source….say a guru or a Master.
It is the same in the case of offering certain views on any particular subject. If you do not give people the opportunity to create thoughts (and understanding) for themselves, but rather there is a guru that tells them the way it is, then a common set of beliefs becomes created (a blind following).
With Osho, on any given subject you will find contradictions. Of course sheep like being sheep, or as Fresch would say, the evidence is what you would like it to be. So people will like to believe in a few special quotes of Osho, and live there life accordingly. Trouble is with Osho, someone else can always find a few special quotes to contradict the ones that are so important to you. Hence in theory you cannot create a pattern of thoughts (a belief system). Of course people do, and if it becomes organised (and the subject matter is spiritual) it becomes a religion.
This creation of a certain set of thoughts and way of thinking (a belief system) is what, as the most senior figures in the Inner-Circle, Jayesh and Amrito are doing as a matter of policy for the entire Osho movement. Yes you are not actively encouraged to bow down to this or that like other blind followings. Actually, you are actively encouraged not to do these things. This seeks to take away freedom of choice and is plain and simple part of creating a blind following. What is different is that it looks ‘normal’ to Westerners. Everyone looks ‘normal’. No one is doing weird things like kissing marble and the like. What is missed is that people are conditioned to act this way.
Ask anyone deeply connected to the current resort. They may not be doing anything that looks like worship, but they will tell you forcefully that such things are not what Osho is about. They are conditioned (and condition others) to act in a way that appears normal. Even though devotion is deeply part of Osho’s offerings, it has been in general removed, and is deeply patronized. As a visitor to the Osho Resort, you are no longer free to choose from the devotional dimension of Osho (with a few glaring exceptions of course). At the resort you have to not be devotional (in general), you have to behave in a ‘normal’ way, and you have to think like Jayesh and Amrito. It is called blind following or blind worship.
It is the same with mental conditioning. At the resort, it is all about Zen, and devotion is part of the dead religions. Read what Jayesh and Amrito say about Osho. In justifying their decisions they choose the text that they like, and they present this, whilst ignoring or criticising other viewpoints of Osho’s.
Osho uniquely offers so much of differing perspectives that it encourages people to open their closed minds and think more widely and freely, so long as you get to see all of what is on the menu. The menu has been taken away and a cheap fake concoction is all that is on offer. Either you accept this concoction or you are out. Either you adopt the concocted set of religious beliefs or you are out. Either you are part of this religion/cult or you are out. It is called blind following. Yes it is difficult to detect from the outside. The resort has such nice facilities, and the clientele look so normal. Look a little deeper and you might have an unpleasant surprise.
Abhay, the detective, above post is wisely expressed. Atleast, it is of my taste.
Good post there from the Detective.
I really don’t see that there’s an issue with anyone being with another Master or teacher after Osho. Simply, if you feel you need to, or that you don’t need to, then follow your own inner prompting – what the hell is the problem?!
Alone we’re born, alone we die and alone we move on…
Osho’s sannyas was/is surely not meant to be yet another ‘imprisonment’, yet another ‘identity’, yet more enchainment to a particular set of beliefs calcifying into rigid ‘rules’ etc. ending in judgment of anyone who might want – or require – something different…
Isn’t this life far too infinitely vast for us to be sucked into such limitation?
For Christ’s sake (!), we’ve already been conditioned far enough away from our birthright – freedom…Let’s not pile on the agony, in the name of some sort of bogus pseudo-religious consistency!!
Abhay
You certainly will have better access to specific examples..
There certainly will be cases of conflict at the managerial level..People may get into operational / legal / brand related issues
When i post here it is purely as individual meditator..All iam saying is i dont see any restrictions in pune IF i am going there to meditate and dance..Which is the core aim of any meditator
I would like to express something which i had never done before.
What is the definition of His people? As far as my understanding of Osho is concerned , His people are the ones who were sitting infront him and growing at a certain phase… who have totally surrendered at the feet of the master …not exactly the masses who go to Osho every now and then.. when time permits .He kept developing methods according to the growth of His people.. there are marked changes in the way Osho moved from what he did in 60s to what he did before he left.. Osho even wanted to disolve everything after he leaves body..didnt he ? A group of people certainly influenced him to have a system in place and In that sense only i always say those people know few things better on what osho wanted / instructed.. unless they come and tell you directly you will never know.. But before that happens how can i cry foul?
At the most you can ask them why certain things are done in certain manner..If osho has asked them to follow a secrecy they are not going to reveal anything.. thats how all mystery schools had functioned down the ages.. Now suddenly we bring media and ask for transparancy etc like the way you demand from public limited company then it is not going to work out..
The majority can sit outside and think 101 things about Osho which can be just projections..They can go trying to recreate the past ..they can go on speaking on behalf of others..i dont see any growth happening out of that effort
Having said that it doesnt mean i am going to sit and take nonsense from anyone.. I have to look at what i need as a meditator ..Space for meditation , celebrartion and relating to fellow sannyasins.. am i being allowed to do that with freedom in pune ? As of now my answer is a big yes.. Beyond this i will never know what life has in store
Osho´s branch of action was Meditation, and for how many times he explained that medicine and meditation come from the same root; one is for the body and the other is for the soul.
In my understanding He was may be the only one of our time; who created a complete Medi_city kind of infra structure, just like any medicine school with different branches and specialisations.
And i just can laugh with cynicism when i read the expressions; Art of living, art of love, Miracle of Love, Art of love, World peace Initiative and blah blah.
It is like general physician with the belief of all the cures and most of these structures exist because of the Charismatic leader of some kind and most of them will prove castles of sand once the Charismatic leader´s dust merges with the dust.
If it happens with Osho too; it is a vast tragedy because this man poured His being out to create a system which goes beyond the age of His fragile body.
Once Amrito and Jayesh accepts this that they are not the only worthy disciples but there are uncountable others, it can be a turning point in the game. His work can be again a trend setter.
You can sit with whom you want, i am sitting with Osho.
Few people specially from Indian sub continent say that Osho´s work is growing. 20-30 people are always on the move for the mediation camps joined by 75-200 people.
and resort people have also a small PR machinery which informs that between 11 to 15 January 2010, 369 pairs of shoes were counted before the Kundalini meditaion at 04.15 PM, this shows net 23% growth from the same period in 1989 and generates 35 times more revenue and create work opportunity for 210 Puneites.
So every thing is in the right hands. Existance is showering flowers.
With due respect to their efforts and devotion, i just want to remind those off springs of Osho, who feel Wow by selling few pieces of Dynamic brand under wears on their bicycles, That Osho was building a textile empire for a complete man, and this brand was suppose to be the most innovative one to dress the soul of contemporary man and woman.
Whe i used the word ‘ challenging ‘ i meant Osho is far ahead of His time and the minority understand him….highly controversial also.. To continue His work is a challenge in that sense.. not from administrative angle
” You can sit with whom you want, i am sitting with Osho.”
Thats is it.. as long as i am able to sit with Osho i am fine..
I really enjoyed all those responses to the Osho quote that I posted. I believe that quote came from a series of discourses called Sufis, people of the path. But don’t quote me on it because It is not important. What is important is that Osho often spoke about such things and I think that people who want to feel comfortable with their Osho teddy just don’t want to hear about it.
It is rare for me to quote Osho. Even though he might go down in history as being the world’s greatest spiritual chatterbox it was he himself who said time and again that his real message was in the space between the words and I for one know that he really meant it.
Besides, even though there is an Osho quote on just about everything not all of his words are interesting. It is often a case of having to dig in the dirt to find the diamonds. As a writer who sometimes writes about spiritual matters it is rare for me to go to Osho for an enlightening quote because it takes too much time to find one. It is much simpler to pick up a copy of ‘I Am That’ by Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj. because in my opinion it surpasses anything Osho ever did on a literary level.
Even though there are hundreds of books with Osho’s name on them word’s were a long way from what the man was about. Osho was about energy. Plain and simple. You can call it love you can call it this and you can call it that but really he was a channel for a light that shone from somewhere high above this world.
It seems to me quite remarkable how attached people have become to Osho’s name and form, especially now that he has merged with that which is formless. I’ve never met another person who was so out of the body while supposedly in one. I often watched Osho and marvelled at how his spirit seemed to be attached to the body by the finest of threads.
Whenever people ask me why Osho had all those Rolls Royces I reply that he had them because he enjoyed them. Someone like him needed major distractions to keep him interested in the mundane goings on of this world. I notice that a new thread has begun. Boy of boy, how things have changed since being a sanyassin meant celebrating existence. It used to be the politics of ecstasy. Now its plain old politics. Yawn.
LOKESH
I have nothing to say
xcept
is it a babe magnet…?
(I tend to ask everyone the same question)
Osho is it a ..etc etc…
Well then….Lokesh..is it ?
clouseau…
if swami jayarse tells ma turaluraluiya that his ego is bigger than her ego then as a german she has to surrender….its all about equal and opposing forces…. when the arsehole meets the cocksucker….they deserve each other…
Now im turning this into a musical…hot on the heels of that anti fascist hit ‘ Springtime for Hitler’ .. Except this time I’m calling it ‘Tough Love- The Musical …’
But I suppose asa labelled ‘extremist’ I would say that wouldnt I.. which makes me a….. (one at a time please theres a queue)…
Anyone who sponsors secret societies with their hierarchical structure and in built unaccountable arrogance development will get the same response .. even if they have light shining out of their orifices… includes any and i mean any master or guru or therapist…. they get what they ask for…. I’m happy with that…we all shit dont we….
and ….osho was pure delight…
though that didnt stop him from being an arsehole too in his estimations of our capacities….though ‘he’ wasnt there so Im currently taking tickets for Blaming the Universe through him which is a bit difficult really
all of course… IMO..
and of course if you prefer animals….. Go VEGan !
Viva Borat !….. better than any fucking spritual seeking bollox
Kranti I will not go through the same old ground that others have done with respect to the debate about Osho supposedly gradually refining his art until in the end he achieved a Zen style perfection. If you have something new on the subject perhaps I will respond.
The notion of Inner-Circle secrecy as stipulated by Osho is an interesting one. It is of course quite convenient. The Inner-Circle operated for a time before Osho left the body. It would be interesting to hear how it functioned, and to hear from some original Inner-Circle members about this subject.
There is also a strange set of events surrounding Doc Amrito. On the eve of Osho leaving the body (or was it the next), Amrito said to everyone in White-Robe that the following evening he would go through the functioning of the Inner-Circle. Now tell me how that works. If the code of secrecy was so important such that twenty years on there is not a word, yet just after Osho left the body Amrito was of the view that it was actually not so secretive. What makes sense is that something transpired between the time of announcing that he would explain how the Inner-Circle functioned and the next evening. Amrito has still till today yet to explain how the Inner-Circle functions. What circumstances lead to his change of position? Ahh, it’s a secret. Good one!
“I’ve never met another person who was so out of the body while supposedly in one. I often watched Osho and marvelled at how his spirit seemed to be attached to the body by the finest of threads.”
Lokesh is it possible toshare with us how experienced this.. have read osho himself saying similar things
” Someone like him needed major distractions to keep him interested in the mundane goings on of this world. ”
This is even more interesting.. That may explain so many things aboput Osho’s material side ( whatever was there )
Kranti you asked, is it possible to share with us how experienced this.. have read osho himself saying similar things
Yes, it is possible and easy to explain. I simply looked and saw this. It was obvious. I think anyone who spent some time around Osho could not have failed to observe this unless they needed specs. There was nothing escoteric about this phenomena it was plain to see. As far as the experiencing side of it goes I can only speak for myself. It made me feel humble because there was something deeply sad about it for me. It made me see the pain of the master trying to wake people up. I am sure Osho probably talked about this but the most moving account of the master’s plight that I have ever heard came from H W Poonja.
I was listening to him read a long-winded letter from a seeker in California. It seemed endless and boring. Then Mr Poonja took of his glasses and explained the agony a master sometimes feels when confrontered with the sleep of ignorance in his disciples. There were tears in his eyes as he spoke. The tidal wave of love vibes that rolled over the satsang that morning almost succeeded in knocking me over, no easy feat as I am a big stubborn Scotsman. Once again that amazing old man had succeeeded in bowling me over with an aspect of life that I had never really contemplated. Like watching Osho it was a humbling experience.
I think Martyn is asking if Osho was a babe magnet. Of course he was. Cowgirls get the blues and babes sometimes get lost in the woods and yes, once in the while, babes get the call to awaken to the enlightened condition.
PS Does Swami Detective have a fan club? I must confess and tell you I am knocked out by some of his comments.
on the other hand they dont make me laugh.(he tries i must admit he’s very tyring)…so its all a bit lost on one’s (osho’s) sense of the absurd…. and he really loves to tell people that he’s (clouseau) not an extremist which is a bit extreme really….
anarchos
osho was…or maybe he wasnt …or maybe other people thought he was……do middle of the roaders get poisoned by evangelists ..I wonder….
The Apaches, the Sioux and the Comanches welcome Obama’s new ‘ immigrants will be arrested’ law.They are waiting for everyone to leave by next week…he didnt strike a rightwing deal to get his medicare through by any chance did he?
As Malcom Mclaren manager of the sex pistols said last week just before he died, his last words were.. free Leonard Peltier…that’s one for the flag arse kissers of US of A
me and swami clouseau might do better helping old sannyassins cross the street instead…as collaboration elsewhere is proving fickle to say the least
and talking about fickles….lets fick now and talk about it later
kisses
This is maybe not strictly relevant here, but it’s occurred to me recently, while following this thread, so here goes anyway:
Having been in Poona a couple of months or so, and having either just begun , or being about to begin working as a book editor (‘The Mustard Seed’), Osho agreed that I take up Maharishi’s TM (so-called ‘transcendental meditation’)again (I’d previously practised it for around 9 months, 5 or so years before).
That was despite him having already quite often decried this method as virtually useless, as not ‘true’ meditation at all.
That’s just one, very small, but I think, telling example of how flexible he was, always looking into what a person actually might need, rather than rigidly keeping to a set of practises outside which one might stray ‘at one’s peril’!
My feeling is it’s just foolish and untrue to try to put such a man ‘in a box’, he was/is far too vast for such mind-made limitation.
Ultimately, the individual and his/her freedom – and personal responsibility – is important, more important than any collective or community.
Any collective/community – or indeed, any individual – needs to accept this, which was surely one of the lessons of Rajneeshpuram.