David Icke, a former English professional footballer, author of many books, UK citizen, and known for being able to give four hour lectures unscripted, recently choose to quote Osho from The Dhammapada: The Way of the Buddha Vol 2, Ch 8. on his website: maybe interesting for bloggers here to comment. Apparently Icke likes Osho and often refers to him.
Well, this statement from Osho is a load of bollocks really.
Self-realisation doesn’t necessarily make people rebellious like Osho was, it is the mind that is rebellious, not the Self, and many ‘enlightened’ ones have utterly conventional minds.
Osho spoke quite a bit about two masters, both of whom he claimed were ‘Self- realised’, Sri Chaintanya and Adi Shankara, both of whom were very orthodox and conventional with their belief systems, and both very much into their scriptures.
Very different to Osho.
And David Icke, well, he seems like a bit of a nutcase, he thinks that the world is being run by a race of giant lizards. Tony Blair and the Queen are both lizards. It sounds like the guy has taken too much acid, to me.
Btw, David Icke was a high-profile mainstream tv broadcaster after his football career ended prematurely.
Having been exposed to some of his stuff I don’t agree he’s necessarily “a nutcase”, but the strange things he’s said are, I think, due to not having had guidance from a spiritual teacher, having naively tended to take and publically present elements of various ‘realisations’ literally rather than as ‘psychic metaphors’.
Anyway, although a brilliantly fluent, engaging speaker he tends to focus on what’s wrong ‘out there’, so has distinct limitations as a teacher. A courageous, rebellious man though.
“I think that there’s a kernel of truth in what David Icke espouses, but it seems to be wrapped in a coating of fantasy and nonsense.”
Paranoid conspiracy theories are always attractive for people, but David Icke has got to be sniffing glue, or taking to be coming up with some of his theories.
As recently as 2010, he wrote in one of his books that the Earth, and the collective human mind are being manipulated from the moon – a “spacecraft and inter-dimensional portal controlled by the reptilians.”
Apparently,
“The Moon Matrix is a broadcast from that spacecraft to the “human body-computer,” specifically to the left hemisphere of the brain, which gives us our sense of reality.”
He writes: “We are living in a dreamworld within a dreamworld — a Matrix within the virtual-reality universe — and it is being broadcast from the Moon.”
Apparently, years ago, after he left his career as a footballer, he was told by some “healer”, that he was a “son of Godhead”.
Now what does that mean?
Aren’t we all ‘sons and daughters of Godhead’?
Or does David feel that there are ‘baddies’ like Tony Blair and George Bush amongst us, the “Lizards” from planet Zog? Who are secretely controlling everything from their Moonbase?
As in a lot of things, it is better to see and judge for oneself. People who never met Osho regularly condemn him.
I went to see Icke at a public lecture in London some ten years ago. He talked for about four hours with a short ten minute break. Definitely not soporific.
I was genuinely surprised at the power of his presence. I thought the stuff about lizards was some kind of metaphor.
The content of some, but not all, of what he said did seem to be sort of grand conspiracy theory stuff, but he bothered to back up what he was saying without notes from what others might regard as reliable sources.
The press gave and give him a particularly hard time because he was one of them!
You have to explain the long queues at his meetings, etc. to something. (Okay, I agree, Hitler had long queues also! Charisma is a funny thing in the human affairs of the alpha male).
His use of this particular quote from Osho shows him as an iconoclast, and basically, as SD indicates, seeing “wrong out there”. The fact that he has read Osho seems to me a good thing, and maybe sometime he will turn in.
Like SD, I feel he should not be denounced out of hand. In particular, one respects his varied past experience when he must have come up against the ‘world’ in a bigger way than many who choose to comment on it.
Standing with one’s back as a goalkeeper behind the average lower division football terrace week after week in the sixties – well, it knocks the corners off, for sure.
The lizards story is not a metaphor but rather a story that was going round the conspiracy circuit a few years back. Apparently, the human race is being controlled by lizard-like aliens who can adapt to the human form. Five minutes in my garden would put paid to them. My siamese cats love to hunt lizards and after toying with their wiggling tails for a while chew the blighters up for breakfast. Instant karma gets its turn by making my cats as sick as a dog from consuming toxic lizard meat.
I study my cats a lot and do not see them as cruel predators but rather intensely curious creatures who love to see lizards wriggle, birds’ feathers fly and mice squeak in terror. The cat’s hearing is acute and well beyond human range. They can hear insects burrowing in the ground. Ancient Egyptians saw cats as vehicles for the disembodied to peer into the world from. Jim Morrison thought he was the lizard king until he broke on through to the other side.
The idea that Osho was a threat to the global status quo is a myth. Osho was not really dangerous. His hiss was more scary than his bite.
Never heard of David Icke and am not in the least interested in what he has to say. Lady Gaga thought Osho was cool. So what? Just because somebody is a famous media personality does not mean that they have something worthwhile to say. Same goes for Icke. Lizards, my ass.
Icke has certainly done a bit of ayahuasca, and as we know, metaphors can get very visible when you`re on that kind of stuff.
But his reputation does make people tell him stuff that won`t get out elsewhere, which is how he came to know about Savile, Ted Heath and a lot of other stuff that sounded about as crazy as lizards years ago..
Btw, was Osho`s ‘attacked by black magic cultists’ story any less wacky than the lizards tale (sic)?
I expect Icke takes that one at face value too.
Let`s face it. lads and lasses, we are all pretty wacko, aren`t we?
Yes, makes me think of Wako County.
The connection between the ‘true self’ and danger to the powers-that-be is not so clear-cut. People don`t agree about who is a true self and who is not.
On the other hand, pretty much everyone will agree that every culture tries to knock out dissenting voices. They might be apostates in Islam, Osho, Martin Luther King or even Jeremy Corbyn, road protesters or Icke – there`s a wide range.
They will be undermined, ridiculed, discredited, killed etc. in the appropriate manner for the system involved.
Shanti mentions these old Hindu buffers, but what about Krishnamurti, whom Osho always said was enlightened and presumably a ‘true self’? How many political/religious leaders were shitting their pants when they heard his name?
But in a way, the ‘ego’ to be ‘transcended’ is always a socially constructed `thing` (or `think`).
And there is a fundamental disconnect between the ‘true self’ and the self foisted on you by the system, matrix, lizard club etc.
That`s where being wacko is an absolute must on the path.
But I`m sure everybody here knows that already.
I surmise that large numbers of individuals, on a mass scale, who are neither reactively conformist or reactively rebellious, a collectivity of such individuals, would be a huge threat to the status quo.
Whence come these people? Another question.
True masters don´t leave behind disciples, but words.
Anyone who uses their words is the disciple on the way to ultimate glory. Master in his own rights.
(From unpublished manuscript, ‘Spiritual Maxims For 21st Century’).
I don’t know enough about Icke, but I’ve watched him on video a little. He’s impressive in his way, I sense he is like many others, who get very close to the truth, but who then can’t quite face the simplicity of it. Whose mind then gets hold of it and make it very complicated.
They become paranoid and manufacture conspiracies, which are so close to the truth to also be so far from it as well.
Whether the lizards are a metaphor, or whether there are alien visitors, or whatever, I can only deal with what’s true in my experience. I don’t know. There is so much literature from Whitley Streiber to David Icke, and many others that suggests that things aren’t always what they appear.
For most of us, dealing with everyday matters of survival, love, unresolved pain about who we are, much of these questions are pretty irrelevant.
With David Icke and others like him, I’m reminded of some insights I’ve had with people ‘diagnosed’ with schizophrenia, who have made some sense, but whose abilities to live in the ‘real’ world are somewhat suspect.
True Disciple is one who interprets Master’s gaps according to his / her own understanding and forces that onto disciples of his Master ( inner & outer understanding of a disciple of the 21st Century ) .
The way Mullahs in Iran do, the way RSS in India does, the way our famous duo Jayesh Amrito Orchestra plays, ” Osho speaks but is no more.”
What I said earlier this morning applies to all of us, but after I posted that I realized it applies more to you as well as to J & A; I could never relate to both of you anyway.
But to tell the truth, in any case I am mostly interested in my own music/silence/gaps!
The way Mullahs in Iran do, the way RSS in India does, the way the dreary Shantam Orchestra plays, “Osho speaks but is no more.”
Every writer feels vindicated when their sentences are stolen shamelessly.
It means nails have made the right holes.
Shantam feels embarrassed when his rubbish is reflected back to him. Like nails to a hole.
If Arpana was a Muslim, he will go on believing, Islam is a religion of peace.
Few people simply cannot bear a single scratch on their mental image. With such kind of people, spiritual movements start stinking, dying, disappearing….
If Shantam was a Muslim, he will go on believing, Islam is a religion of peace. Shantam simply cannot bear a single scratch on his mental image. With such kind of people, spiritual movements start stinking, dying, disappearing…
AN OLD, OLD STORY, PERHAPS AS OLD AS MAN!
“He talked for about 4 hrs with a short 10 minute break” (Parmartha):
Sounds like a preacher-man to me!
“a brilliantly fluent, engaging speaker” (Satyadeva):
Sounds like a charismatic, entertaining preacher-man who knows how to play with words to great effect, to me!
“collective human mind being manipulated from the moon” (Swamishanti):
Sounds familar, a bit like a version of ‘God in Heaven’, ‘Kingdom Beyond the Skies’, etc., doesn’t it? Mmmh, sounds like a preacher-man to me!
“the world is being run by a race of giant lizards” (Swamshanti):
Sounds like a preacher-man to me, talking about those possessed by Satan – I mean, he’s also got a long, sharp, pointy tail and funny bits sticking out of his head, hasn’t he? Mmmmhh, only thing is, in this case, Satan’s wisely moved his base of operations up to the Moon, because modern science can now explain the source of ‘Hell Fire’, but there is still plenty of potential as far as ‘Outer Space’ and ‘Alien are concerned! Phew, thank God, for saving an honest preacher-man!
“His use of this particular quote from Osho” (Parmartha):
Sounds like a preacher-man to me, borrowing from the holy gospels and scriptures of other preacher-men!
“was a high-profile mainstream TV broadcaster after his football career ended prematurely” (Satyadeva):
Sounds like a preacher-man, to me, going where the money is when one source is not looking so good any more (or is not able to satisfy certain wants and needs)!
Hey! Maybe that is what Osho was doing in the Maharishi’s camp?
CONCLUSION:
I don’t think the man in question is ‘whacko’, actually – in fact I think he is very conventional in some ways, following, I believe, a time-honoured tradition and formula that allows some to make a lot of money from others’ weakness and capacity for superstition, non-sense and primitive belief, employing personal charisma and and a ‘gift for the gab,’ in the process i.e. RELIGION!
Halleleujah!
P.S: Mr Frank said something about everybody around here being a bit ‘whacko’! I hope that does not include my hero – Father Ted?
Other than Osho, everybody else is a teacher.*(Conditions apply)
“Sounds like a preacher-man, to me, going where the money is when one source is not looking so good any more (or is not able to satisfy certain wants and needs)!
Hey! Maybe that is what Osho was doing in the Maharishi’s camp?”
A gratuitously inappropriate remark re both Icke and Osho. Leaves a bad taste, Ashok.
“leaves a bad taste in the mouth, Ashok.”
To see it that way is, I believe, a conscious choice you have made, SD, re your own ‘holy cow’!
In a similar vein, it seems to me that when you start using terms like “inappropriate” and “gratuitously”, also used in your reply, you might just as well say ‘blasphemous’?
Satyadeva, in general you are one of the most incisive and clearest of writers on this site (qualities which I have recognised in you previously, and with some admiration and appreciation, because they are sometimes in short supply on SN); nevertheless, you generally come across as ‘blinkered’, biased and over-sensitive at times re comments made about Osho.
I wonder what the man himself would have made of my little piece, were he still alive?
Ashok, to suggest that the prime motivation of both Osho (in confronting Maharishi) and David Icke (for disseminating his ‘insights’ etc.) was financial gain is so blatantly wide of the mark it’s barely worth considering.
Consequently, in this case I suggest you look at your own self for evidence of ‘blinkers and bias’ (not to mention a lack of sensibility, or even simple common sense).
You come across as if you see yourself as some sort of humorous sceptic iconoclast commentator while actually again parading a certain lowest common denominator ignorance, like a typical tabloid know-it-all.
It`s interesting how in forms of Hindu yoga and mythology, the snake or the Cobra, is seen as the transformational aspect, or kundalini Shakti, which awakens the human being to our divine nature, whereas in the western world we have a Christian conditioning, which depicts the snake or the serpent as an `evil` being.
Perhaps this kind of conditioning on reptiles influences those kind of ‘lizard domination` theories:
http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/the-royal-family-are-bloodsucking-alien-lizards-david-icke-1-1103954
Good observation, Swamishanti. Wouldn’t be too surprising if this cultural antipathy towards the snake is connected to or even based on sexual taboo. While the opposite seems to have been the case in the East, at least in the old, Hindu India..
What the oil wells fear the most is a match stick. To create real self is as easy as creating a box of match sticks.
Real self, individual, Liberated man, New humanity all these words sound like the the names for the diesel engines in the factories of Volkswagen!
Alas, religious scientists dare to bring their products under the investigative eyes. Here, the rule is, what soothes the ears must be the truth based on hard facts.
What the Shantam fears the most is looking in a mirror.
To create real self is as easy as creating a Shantam. Real self, individual, Liberated man, New humanity – all these words sound like the the names for the Shantams in the factories of Shantamism he would like to set up.
Alas, religious scientists dare to bring their products under the investigative eyes.
Here, the rule is, what soothes the Shantam must be the truth,
based on whatever rubbish the Shantam can come out with.
STOP IT GUYS !
STOP IT !STOP THAT SICK AND SICKENING RUBBISH GOING ON HERE !
I ´ve always thought the sickening sights of the bavarian ´Wiesen`weeks , happening now, couldn´t be topped, it is quite an International affair, lots of english- american natives also around; big Party.
Vomiting and urinating in the chill out after on the streets and wheresoever , sometimes attacking each other with their beer glasses, what is a never to forget incident then, as well as raping or indulging in playing robbery quite efficientely – not only in the Festival Area.
What you are into these hours is not much better; sometimes even worse !
Madhu
(the long e -mail to the topic I took effort to post yesterday morning disappeared into the void. And before this place is not cleaned up by the vomits, I don´t see a space for words to come)
Your intervention Madhu, has just brought to mind the following verse from the song ‘Let It Be’:
When I find myself in times of trouble,
Mother Mary comes to me,
Speaking words of wisdom,
Let it be!
(Lennon & McCartney)
However, please don’t unnecessarily alarm yourself at the possibility of a certain interaction stretching out much further, because I have already spoken my pieces, providing as they do possible alternative interpretations of events and attitudes reported.
Fortunately, I am able to not let my ego, identity and feelings get too wrapped up in it all, unlike some very conservative, conventional and religious ‘Malcolm Muggeridge’* types!
*A famous 20th century UK journalist, author and satyrist, who in his younger days identified with agnosticism and, left-wing/ communist tendencies.
A bit of a swinger in terms of his ideas and faith, he later in life ended up as a religous moraliser, campaigning on behalf of the Roman Catholic church, to which he had finally converted, after a long flirtation: this included meeting ‘Mother Teresa’ in person, some years earlier !
He was renowned for having participated in a live debate on a UK television ‘chat-show’, with John Cleese and Michael Palin, both from the Monty Python team of comedians, in which he criticised their making of the film ‘The Life of Brian’, as being ‘blasphemous’!
Madhu, it can not be stopped.
Half modified “New Guys”are lasting legacy of sannyas.
I request rival or complimentary site, Osho News to start comments sections but only for women!
There is a market for nice nice goody goody posts- full moon night, my inner longing, yearning for freedom, Danke Osho danke!
Never forget, Shantypants…
Madhu thinks you’re a Moron (early 20th century, a medical term denoting an adult with a mental age of about 8–12): from Greek mōron, neuter of mōros ‘foolish’. ) as well.
She just doesn;t think we should constantly remind you we think you’re a moron.
Shantam, could you elaborate more, please? Why the women should go to Osho News? Don’t you like women here in SN? Why?
Tan, take many of my posts with some sense of irony, a satire.
Oshonews has no comments section. Just think: Fragile ego of Oshonews writers bearing rain of Frank´s punches.
I don´t think any other Osho media will ever dare to create writers/readers dialogue.
So my idea is a soft satire that at least Oshonews can try ‘women´s only’ comments section. Sannyasnews experiment shows, the thought that women are more refined and sensitive is still valid.
In my heart, I have deep respect for Madhu kind who try to bring sanity in the male chauvinistic atmosphere.
May God send more women disciples of Osho on this site.
Shantam, from where your kind of humour comes from? Definetely, it is not Punjabi! XX
Interesting how you believe this hysterical vomit of an outburst adds to the quality of what happens here. But your special; aren’t you Madhu? When you get on one that’s because the others are bad. When others get on one that’s also because they are bad. Take responsibility for your rubbish Madhu. Those you are ranting at are not the cause of your paranoia.
I am not surprised, Arpana ; stupidity, plus some will to empower mixed with cruelty and contempt mostly is a much fertile ground to even more stupidity, even more lust to empower .
There is no need here to ponder about, that ´a system´fears anything…´system mostly is happening like a machine, and so is the mind.
Alas, the robot like responses, like yours to my lines, Arpana.
The more sick a human system, the more robot-like it is.
Some then declare it is inhuman and stupid too. I do !
Madhu
I am not surprised, Madhu; stupidity, plus some will to empower mixed with cruelty and contempt mostly is a much fertile ground to even more stupidity, even more lust to empower .
In trying to develop the will, the most fatal pitfall is to confuse will with the chauvinism of the ego. Will is not willpower, virility, obstinancy, or hardness. Will is unity of desire.
Peter J Carroll, ‘Liber Null’.
Perfectly correct Madhu!
Perfectly correct Madhu!
I am so glad theat your post managed to get through all the vomit that is piling up in cyberspace on account of all the various bodily emmissions flowing from the evil-doers!
You are perfectly correct! There is absolutely no difference between this SICK rubbish on Sannyasnews and the sickening sight of scottish skinheads,drunken Irishmen dressed in vomit-flecked lederhosen glassing each other and hitting each other with broken beer bottles and other english football hooligans who are talking out of their arsenals and ignorant drunken auslander rapists,all english-speaking, on the streets of Munchen!
I can easily imagine the rapist,violent criminals SD,Arpana,Arshlock,Shantam and the others stealing the wallets of enlightenment seekers like a gang of romanian gypsies and then lining up to gang bang innocent and utterly sensitive non-violent meditators like you and I!
The view from your bunker looks utterly disgusting!
My sympathies!
Yahoo!
Hi Yogi, welcome back, I missed you, SN is a bit boring without your enlightened view of mankind. XX
Very deep observation from Yogi. You guys should stop it now. Yogi has spoken and all you guys should listen. As you might have noticed, I have mended my ways thanks to Madhuji’s advice. I can only thank her for her advice. I have become a more sensitive swami and only walk on the sunny side of the gutter. Danke, Osho.
Check it out:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/sixth-man-walk-moon-aliens-prevented-nuclear-war-article-1.2324216
SS. I hear that that kind of thing is par for the course.
I know a guy who is big in space memorabilia and space products-meteorites moonrocks etc.
(Seriously-it`s quite a big business)
Due to his interests,he has met many astronauts socially including Niel Armstrong.
He told me that all the astronauts that he spoke to,in private, said they believed in UFOs and other life on other planets on account of their experiences..
He is a very down-to earth kind of guy in many ways- a retired university professor and successful business man.
Maybe flying round space trips your brain chemisty.
Who knows?
I wonder whether Jeremy Corbyn is like Obi-Wan- Kenobi in David Icke`s cosmology?
Jeremy Corbyn is in a direct line of descent from Obi Wan Kenobi SS.
I have it on good authority that there are some Icke sympathisers in Sannyas who have realised that the Ashram has been taken over by 12-foot shape-shifting lizards in white socks and sandals, who subsist entirely on Bombay gin and nitrous oxide….