Laxmi (who is sometimes referred to as Osho’s first secretary – actually she was the third but for some reason anything that Osho did before 1970 is often excluded from accounts of his life, when in fact those years were very important as precursing experience for his later work); was from a strong Gandhi supporting family, and followed the odd practice of making her khadi cloth on a spinning wheel , a requirement of Gandhi supporters at the time to encourage humbleness, etc.
When she met Osho, Laxmi was still devoted to Gandhian ideology, and Gandhi and other leaders of India’s freedom movement had visited her family country house in Kutch, Gujarat. One time when Osho was staying with her family in Bombay the issue came up and Osho asked her
:Osho with Laxmi
“What is the average number of hours one spends on routine mundane affairs? How many hours is one then left with for other matters? Should one really spend time in weaving for oneself? Instead should one not ensure employment to millions who work in mills, manufacturing cloth? If middle class people do not buy cloth then hundreds of workers will be laid off in the mills. And their families starve”.
Osho added that Gandhi’s idealism would lead to poverty. Khadi is good and cool to wear but there is no need for all of us to weave it. Let the poor get employment in mills and industries. This would then generate more money. Weaving khadi is good work in villages that do not have electricity as it provides work to people. But in cities industry should be allowed to flourish.”
Further Osho said,
“I am not trying to convert you. If this appeals to you only then stop weaving. If you do stop, with the time saved work on your growth. Be more aware and meditative. Sit in silence, watching the sunrise, listen to the birds twittering, and enjoy the fragrance of flowers. These will enrich you and you will feel more energetic. In the moment of death, social work, family, friends will not be of any help. Only your awareness and meditation will be your light.” ( from Laxmi’s memoirs)
Shortly after this conversation Laxmi stopped weaving her hand spun khadi, realising that her friends were only boosting her ego and praising her for her simplicity. India had by then several cloth mills, unlike in the days of Gandhi, where cloth was imported from Britain which was part of Gandhi’s original point. From then on she gradually renounced Gandhi’s idealism from her daily life.
Her change of fabric from homespun khadi to terrycloth was noticed by Osho, and she asked if he would like new clothes, as cotton appeared wrinkled during his travel. He agreed, and soon Osho had new chaddars and lungis. But as remembered by Veena, he held on to his khadi blankets during Poona One and the World Tour: “She [Vivek] explained that the only blankets Osho was comfortable with were cotton khadi blankets that he had been carrying around for years. There were eleven of them, all different, and he liked to use them in a certain combination which necessitated her spreading them over the bed twice a day (for his midday nap and bedtime sleep)…These two blanket combos were carried around the world because, despite a few attempts at change, nothing ever suited him as well as they did. He had those same blankets for thirty years or more. Says much for the quality of khadi products!” (from one of Veeena’s books)
Parmartha
Because of this story about Khadi Blankets, I will surely buy Veena’s book.
In which book it is mentioned?
Appears in ‘A Seam for the Master’ by Veena Schlegel, page 43, (2004).
In the frontspiece of this book, Dharmen and Parmartha of Sannyasnews are acknowledged.
SN
When I was young, I wore shorts; as was the custom in those days.
Later on I wore trousers. Was this an unconscious decision to help the mill workers of Bradford or Bengal?
What next? What loo paper did Osho prefer?
Simond, why your buttons are pushed? I don’t think someone like you was the target reader when Veena started writing her Osho Memorials.
Maybe her next book about the life after Osho and in the company of Zen and Chineese masters and monasteries will be of your interest.
“What next? What loo paper did Osho prefer”
I think that Osho would have used a jug and water, Simond, Indian estyle.
Veena’s ‘Glimpses Of My Master’ (2011) is a revised and expanded version of ‘A Seam…’. Unfortunately though, without the beautiful pictures from the first book due to OIF copyright harrassments. Her books are certainly highly recommended.
And though Parmartha is named in the acknowledgements to ‘A Seam…’ her views are very far removed from his and the style and topics on SN. She is a devoted and intelligent sannyasin describing her time with Osho and his work on her – giving a rather ‘intimate’ portrait of Osho both as Master and human being.
Heeren, you post here without registering, but I imagine you might be the Heeren who was a plumber in Pune 1 when I was working in silkscreen.
If so, under the umbrella of the living presence of Osho and that great commune and Buddhafield, devotees and just plain disciples got on well and there were no such clear demarcations, etc.
That “gathering of friends” always seemed an authentic description.
Do you think had Osho continued to be in the body there would be these divisions that emerged between disciples and devotees since the early 1990s? I doubt it.
I also doubt whether there are any major differences between Veena and myself which you seem so sure of. For example, I always recommend her books to any newcomers or oldcomers that come my way, such that an authentic taste of Osho can be found there.
Absolutely agree with your comments on Veena’s books, Heeren, also with your description of her, from my reading, my experience of her teaching dynamic med. and how she ran the first London Centre.
Although Veena was indeed close to Osho, one of his ‘inner circle’, and therefore may be said to have been part of a sannyasin ‘elite’, in stating that she and Parmartha are “very far” apart in their views etc., with the unspoken implication that he is not a ‘real disciple’, is, in my experience, an inaccurate claim; and unfortunately, the sort of statement, with its possibly somewhat sanctimonious undertone, made at times by some (or perhaps even more than a few) people of a strictly ‘devotee’, perhaps even ‘elitist’ tendency. Besides, I think we have to take a far less narrow view of what constitutes a ‘real disciple’, anathema though this might well be to those who disagree.
Sure, SN’s ‘democratic’ approach doesn’t suit everyone, but at least it’s a means whereby people can feel free to express views and share experiences, be creative, humorous, engage in debate, etc. without being constricted by any overbearingly authoritarian editorial policy run by those who think they know best; or risking severe censorship through failing to toe a particular ‘party line’, as it were.
As such, it has a certain role to play among the sannyasin diaspora, which, as I’m sure you well know, includes a wide variety of people, at different stages of life and of ‘awareness’, of ‘meditation’ etc., in widely differing personal circumstances. Sure, there’s plenty of crap, but also plenty of good stuff. And one of the best things about SN is that no one is allowed to take themselves too seriously (at least, not for too long)…Does that ring a bell at all?
Moreover, why apparently fail to bear in mind the initiatives Parmartha has taken over many years, including regular public meditation/video sessions, discos, and sannyasin community ‘newsletters’ and newspapers (and a whole lot more ‘community networking’ that helped keep things together after Oregon collapsed and after Osho departed), as well as this SN site? What do you think those multiple efforts have demonstrated?
As I suggested, I think we have to take a broader view of what constitutes a ‘real disciple’ – if only because the truth is that no one can possibly actually judge with any genuine accuracy, except, of course, the Master himself (who, most unfortunately, isn’t around just now) – and even he made a few errors of judgment in that area. The idea that ‘one size fits all’, so to say, is inadequate, limited – and too easily used for ‘oppressive’ purposes (as on the Ranch, for example).
I recall Veena herself, for instance, relating what she clearly rated as a key piece of advice to her from Osho, ie not to bother or worry about what others were getting up to in the community, but to simply focus upon her own life and practice.
So, there’s a few thoughts – take ‘em or leave ‘em…And, of course, presumably no one is forcing you or anyone to come to SN, so why bother – unless you actually enjoy not enjoying what’s here?
Blooming right Satydeva.
And I support Parmartha who in my experience has done as much as anyone in educating, informing and supporting Osho as anyone else. He’s a star in my book.
Really lovely, Satiadeva. Enjoyed your text very much! My favourite part is about Big P. Like him, many others, whose work really matters, the silent people. Always in the background making sure Osho carries on. They are the ones who deserve gratitude. Thanks for speaking out! Cheers!
Perhaps my previous post got lost; in any case it seems to have disappeared in the ether
So I repeat again, thanks Sat for supporting young Parmartha.
Like you, I feel he’s a blooming genius for all his and others work in the Sannyas community and he may be a disciple of old,and we may differ on some key things, but he’s still a star and an example to me. I’m my very grateful to him. Keep up the good work,Parmatha, you are my other hero; notwithstanding Lokesh!
I am more of a zero than a hero, but thanks anyway, Simond, I appreciate the sentiment.
Very well put, SD.
For all the Zen inclined readers & bloggers
Zen Internet Koans :
• If an anonymous comment goes unread, is it still irritating?
• What is the sound of a no hands keyboard ?
• If nobody likes your selfie, what is the value of the self?
• To see a man’s true face, look to the photos he hasn’t posted.
Shantam Prem,
may be Veena, knowing to use a needle (and scissors too), wrote her book /or her books , just for herself and for whomsoever else it might be of concern ?
So who are you (and may be others) to judge about the readers. Or to phantasize about her ´intentions´.
I came to know and also just like second hand knowledge, that some of Devageet´s compilation books of Dentricity (and more), had been ordered as also in Shunyos book (Diamond Days ) there it´s included , that the Master told her, to compile a (the)story.
Otherwise , there are many , many books meanwhile and you, yourself, Shantam Prem , and your contributions are meanwhile a ´book´unto yourself (itself), isn´t it ?
Same me, unfortunately.
To fabricate a blanket , by sewing or by spinning is one thing.
To give it a try – like a spin doctor, to fabricate a kind of ´spiritual family systems constellation order´, by including historically stuff and persons who have been lost on the way(s) is quite another task.
And to do that in an Internet-chat , open just for any peeping Tom´s and Mary´s who do not have a iota of interest concerning historical calamities for example, that is courageous, if not to say, impossible.
Why ? – Because the bonding of a committed friendship to the Sangha mentioned -either never did ever happen for most of these , nor was ever wanted by the onlookers (of the chat)
I am left with a deep sadness , reading the last threads (also the last topic here) about an issue , I would like to call again a ´deterioration issue´, and for me it´s important , that some women like Osho´s cousin-sister and first care- taker has been brought into Light here.
And to mention, that Osho was so much so – clinging to His old khaki blankets throughout three decades , touched me very deeply, as I don´t feel it just associated to the ´fabric´.
Remember ?… this old old Sufi story ?…
It´s about a very rich king , visiting a sage, who had become very famous.
in his kingdom.
One day this king finally decided to visit the Sage.
With him he brought as gift – a golden scissor with all kinds of very precious diamonds applied on it.
When the Sage saw that, He kindly denied the ´precious´offer.
Telling the king:
“When you come next time, please bring a needle”.
That´s the parable in my mind , and do not know , why it is flowing by in inner skies , I am looking to, but what I know, that it is a piece of great ART to put something together instead of using scissors (of all kinds).
Some call it Love.
And some call it love , to use the scissors effectively, and look for any more new designer cloths , also in a metaphorical sense.
Madhu
PS
It´s a paradox, isn´t it ? , knowing , that not only sikhs wear a knife… as a spiritual ritualistic emblem , to cut, what need ´s a cut…
Knowing also that much of that, was was a symbol for the INNER has detoriated nowadays into a kind of GAME factory…
This also is a sad ´PS´, from my place here-now, can´t help it, to moarn.
You say, Madhu:
“I am left with a deep sadness, reading the last threads (also the last topic here) about an issue , I would like to call again a ´deterioration issue´, and for me it´s important , that some women like Osho´s cousin-sister and first care-taker has been brought into Light here.”
NOT at all sure what you mean Madhu. The whole point about Kranti is that her service to Osho for some years is completely unknown and unacknowledged in the west, and even in India in some places. So SN is bringing it to a GOOD light, not something that should be hidden away.
The years of Osho’s life between 1950 to 1970 (mainly in Jabalpur), are actually pretty unknown in the west, and this was intentional by those who came after. Osho actually worked very hard during this period, both to attract people, and to throw them out. A knowledge of this period is genuinely instructive in seeing how an enlightened Master worked, and actually worked very hard. Why this period of twenty years is hidden away by official organisers, early and late, is a mystery to me.
If you are unhappy about recent strings, Madhu, do feel encouraged to create one of your own and send it to the Editors.
Madhu,
Kranti was not the only disciple Osho ‘sent away’.
There was another Madhu, ‘Ma anand Madhu’, apparently Osho’s first disciple, who Osho asked to go and stay in Rishikesh.
See an old thread about her here: sannyasnews.org/now/archives/120
One of the commentators put:
“ In the early years Madhu Ma was responsible for arranging and organizing meditation camps for Osho. One day when “Osho unexpectedly asked her to go to Rishikesh and remain there in silence, she instantly left everything and went to Rishikesh and never left the place.
Here’s the link for Ma Madhu:
http://sannyasnews.org/now/archives/120
Yes, Thank you for the link, Swamishanti;
I remembered well, having read that, when I have been just in the onlooking-reading modus with SN these former years and having touched in me all that I love about ´India´, what is quite more than geographic up to nowadays.
The spiritual home has no address, no name and no frame
…and yet and yet….
As MadhuMa, how she is called lovingly , was one of the first He initiated, I have been one of the last , He initiated Himself to be part of the Sangha happening and I felt a special connection, and up to today, I love (my) name and what He said , when talking about it , is as alive as ever.
At a deep emotional level, I feel to sometimes understand Shantam Prem (like in this thread), when he touches the ´Sangha -Issue´and pain of a loss of ´coherence´ and I don´t just now find a better word to express it , as english is not my mother tongue.
And when that happens in me also, I remember the Tibetan Art of sand Mandalas and the ways this is celebrated and then giving the Mandala sands to the running Waters.
Rare – but sometimes – writing and sending off a ´reply´into a void, has some of that quality for me.
With love
Madhu
Interesting, this ‘Madhu Ma’ also spent some time as Osho’s secretary in the early days, and like Ma Laxmi, she ended up living physically far away from him.
Here’s some about Madhu Ma:
http://oshoinme.blogspot.co.uk/2009/04/becoming-rippleless-lake-with-ma-anand.html?m=1
Hang on a minute, there’s some kind of pattern here…
little Indian women, become Osho’s secretary for a while, then end up living far away from him…
‘Madhu ma’, then Laxmi, and then Sheela… two of these ladies claimed some kind of enlightenment… as I understand it. Yahoo!
Well, what to say, I am shocked. We all need shocks to awaken us to new levels of awareness and I have woken up to the shocking reality that I no longer need to use my spinning wheel to spin tartan cloth for my extensive kilt collection.
Osho was, of course, correct in saying that I have been creating unemployment, in this case in Scotland’s highlands and islands. Thanks to Osho’s piercing insight I will no longer be contributing to this huge loss of work for the Highlanders,
An interesting piece of Osho trivia that he never gave up his blankets for so many years. Khadi is indeed a wonderful cloth. I have one orange-coloured khadi kilt, which I only wear on special occasions, human sacrifices under the standing stones, howling at the moon etc.
El Chudo has been emotionally moved, it seems and now wishes to buy or shoplift Veena’s book of fly-on-the-wall insights into the master’s life. Who knows, this may lead the chuddie muncher to experience exalted states of inner experience such as being more aware and meditative, sitting in silence, watching the sunrise, listening to the birds twittering, and enjoying the fragrance of flowers? Somehow I kind of doubt it. Are there any birds left n Germany?
Finally, a serious reply, made me laugh! Your love for Shantam is enormous, you don’t give up! Cheers!
It is not just about Osho, any commoner living closer to some Elvis Presley or Beatles or Lady Diana will think also, “how unique my life story is” and if there are writing skills involved they will write about such people, eg “Prince Charles loved to have his breakfast eggs boiled for 4.56 minutes and so on.”
Yesterday, first time I have been to Veena’s website. Her face was quite known. For years, I have seen her in the Osho Ashram campus, always reserved and dignifed. I think she was not in boyfriend/girlfriend relations thing during her entire stay.
Other than her close proximity with physical presence of Osho, more interesting is her life after Osho:
‘Osho died and she goes for shopping another Osho in China or Japan….’ – this is what it gives the impression.
In psychological terms, Church of Osho failed miserably to use the energy of the people who were living in the presence of the master. To fill that vacuum, such people must find another solution.
Osho Sharnam Gachhami, but no Sangham Sharnam…even though man and the master created whole set-up himself.
Dear Shantam Prem
Thank you for your comments and thank for looking at my website. Perhaps, however, you did not look far enough because in my book ‘A Mountain in China’ — the third book in my trilogy about my life with Osho — I go to this mountain because of its connections with Osho and Bodhidharma. I love meditating on this sacred mountain and feel very close to Osho there. So, when you say:
‘Osho died and she goes for shopping another Osho in China or Japan….’ – this is what it gives the impression. In psychological terms, Church of Osho failed miserably to use the energy of the people who were living in the presence of the master. To fill that vacuum, such people must find another solution.
I have to disagree. Going to this mountain for a few months in the year deepens my meditation and my connections with Osho. Never have I gone shopping for another Osho. There can never be another Osho for me. He is much much more than enough and his energy and the energy that keeps me connected with the energy of so many other beloveds in our world-wide community is totally fulfilling. No other ‘solution’ is at all necessary.
With love, Veena
Very few comments arise here on this caravanserai group. Maybe being missed – the chance to comment is also here:
http://sannyasnews.org/now/now/groups/news-items-that-may-interest-sn-readers/
Shantam, can you share, if possible, what you mean by “Osho Sharnam Gachhami, but no Sangham Sharnam”? Maybe I am not getting this – isn’t this Sannyas News platform a subtle Sangha?
And also why do you think/feel that going in search of another/one more Master is a crime in your book? No one I know here, including me, has any problem with you having one more wife!
Kavita, the answer to the following question of yours, ‘And also why do you think/feel that going in search of another/one more Master is a crime in your book?’ addressed to El Chudo is just so.
The Chud Meister feels threatened by such a possibility. If he were to allow such a possibility to enter his comfort zone it would soon become uncomfortable. El Chudo is not someone who is involved in any earnest search of truth, true self etc. If he were he would not be so closed to the idea of life after Osho.
Of course, any true master will tell you that the real master is within you, and if he does not then he is a fraud. This sounds simpler than it seems, at least in my own case for sure. 63 years on the rock and it is only during the past couple of years that the remarkable fact that the real master is who you in fact are begins to arise within me.
The sad guru is for me one of the most amazing phenomena in human experience. Like external gurus the true master has myriad forms, yet always guides in the most beneficial, in regards coming to one’s true self.
El Chudo has value as an unconscious, for the most part, comedian. He would do well to study the likes of Gurdjieff’s doctrine of the ‘I’s or for that matter the Beedie Wallah’s ‘I Am That.’ I doubt he will and thus he will continue to be completely identified with a personality that is entirely false and such roles as the Don Quixote of SN.
El Chudo is a good representative of mankind at large in respect to his mechanical and unconscious drives, which is probably why he rattles on about mankind and humanity so often, due to his identification with the passing show.
The truth is that not very many people are truly interested in it. El Chudo is no exception. And thus the wheel of eternal recurrence spins its cloth. The poor fellow is so attached to his spinning wheel and the fabric it manufactures that the idea of abandoning it never even occurs to him, and hence the notion of meeting another master does not arise for him. Viewed in a certain way it is the essential tragedy of human existence.
What a fickle mind you have, Lokesh.
Kavita’s post was addressed to me.
If i have written something by ignoring that post, it is common sense that you take it.
But no sir, you are so full with your own head.
Don’t worry, you are not alone, we are all the same. Few more refined few like uncut diamonds.
You know, I wonder what all this ‘sir’ thing is about. Nowhere in any life situation does anyone address me as sir, which is fine by me because I am no sir. Somehow it reeks of British colonialism, as in sir you have insulted me and I challenge you to a duel and all that shite. Sir my ass.
In the world of Osho, Lokesh you have earned the title Sir.
I think it is not less or more respectful or insulting than Bodhisatva Lokesh or Sambodhi Lokesh or Sri Sri Lokesh.
I think somewhere you are someone Sir Lokesh!
Sir Lokesh, by jove you blighter, ‘you are someone’. That is a good one on a sannyas website.
Kavita, this question i cannot answer in a funny way. It deserves concentration and a certain mood.
Few things, few questions deserve more integrated state of being.
So Shantam until that time we consider these statements as crap , as they don’t make any sense to me & many others .
Parmartha ( 3 June, 2015 at 6:44 am)
I don´t know, how come, that you misunderstood so thoroughly, what I meant.
There was no criticism at all about bringing Kranti´s story into Light her at SN, on the contrary !
The sadness, I mentioned is due to the fact, that I come to know, more and more, how ´detorioration´, often has something to do with stuff which does´t come into consciousness or stuff, which is simply denied.
Like the role of humans around , humans, which are forgotten.
So Kranti´s role is quite something else like that of Madhu (Indian) , whom Osho sent away from the Ashram, and who lived the in solitude in Dharamsala, a story , which is well known and she lived as I heard it, a beautiful and honorable Life there, having been visited then and there -.
However, Kranti´s story, has another flavor for me at least, compared with all the stories about His care-takers as ´secretaries in the course of times and the growing Sangha -Explosion around the Master.
And in that rapid growing , a few very saddening facts are hidden, about humans expelled or , or may be willfully forgotten.
If you feel to hit, Parmartha, may be out of the feeling, to not be acknowledged enough, why not choose somebody else here ?
You misunderstood, I say, sorry. And may be , you reread again ?
Madhu
Lokesh , thank you for this effortless effort but maybe Shantam has his own reasons for having such kind of an understanding , which we are not able to get , if he is able to shed light on that , maybe I & many like me can know why he thinks so , unless he is regretting coming to Osho in the first place , which doesn’t seem so .
After swim feeling at ease with the life, Lokesh looked towards the sky and said, ” Hay God, why don’t you make everyone like me. World will be full with joy and peace.”
By chance, God was also in a good mood, so he spoke, ” One model is too less. Suggest something more.”
Lokesh said confidently, ” In that case, someone like my wife.”
This cheeky spiritual over confidence in uncle Lokesh reminds me always the middle class rich people of developing India.
Wholesale business of potatos and oninons bring regular profit, trophy wives are happy to massage the ego and the three legs, spiritual talks and bhajans are running nonstop on televesion, Uncles gets the kick of being aware, more aware than their servents!
Shantam, little do you know, or else you would not write such a load of crap. Middle class my cheeky ass. Thing is, you still have not addressed Santa Kavita’s question. My guess is that you don’t know the answer and thus put up a smokescreen formed from chuddie gas.
Btw , Iam not any kind of Santa , Lokesh in fact I like receiving gifts !
Shantam , I sometimes feel you are self-hypnotised by this kind of crap , which Lokesh rightly calls it so .
Kavita, a female saint in Spain is a Santa. Nothing to do with Mr Claws.
Yes Lokesh , I did know that but didn’t know it was in only in Spain , eg . Santa Maria , that’s why I wrote any kind of Santa .
If master can have many disciples why disciples can not have many masters?
Question is valid. There is no illegality about it.
It is like, If father can have many children, why children cannot have many fathers. Surely they can have, Mamas will be very happy!
Why children cannot have many fathers?
Serious evidence of the lack of sex education in the Punjab.
Kavita says:
3 June, 2015 at 4:24 am
Shantam, can you share, if possible, what you mean by “Osho Sharnam Gachhami, but no Sangham Sharnam”? Maybe I am not getting this – isn’t this Sannyas News platform a subtle Sangha?
And also why do you think/feel that going in search of another/one more Master is a crime in your book? No one I know here, including me, has any problem with you having one more wife!
Shantam writes-
isn’t this Sannyas News platform a subtle Sangha?
Subtle not but substitute. It is like porn is a substitute of date. Escort is a substitute for wife.
It is like something is better than nothing.
What is basically a spiritual master without his community around. If there are children, man/women become father/mother.
Osho has created his own community, has seen it growing.
Buddham Sharnam Gachhami/Jesus Sharnam Gachhami/ Osho Sharam Gachhami is basically a same thing.
Second line; Sangham Sharnam Gachhami is even more important, it is like died patriarch won’t be back but family continues.
In Hindi there is a world “Gurukul”, the liniage of the master.
I am not trying to impose my projection, i am not saying the same for J krishnamurti. J did not induced people in changing names. Basically that Sannyas ceremony takes more time than marriage rituals.
Thanks to the wiser than wise, whiter than brown disciples of late Osho a subtle vacsetomy has been performed, a kind of genetic manipulation with Osho’s concept.
If one does not see it need to go for inner eye check up.
Shantam my original post was ” “Osho Sharnam Gachhami, but no Sangham Sharnam”? Maybe I am not getting this – isn’t this Sannyas News platform a subtle Sangha/ simply a Sangha ? ” . But in any case thank you for taking the effort to share .
” Thanks to the wiser than wise, whiter than brown disciples of late Osho a subtle vacsetomy has been performed, a kind of genetic manipulation with Osho’s concept.
If one does not see it need to go for inner eye check up.”
Iam reminded of Guru Nanak’s choice of passing the torch to his disciple who was not his son or son of his village but to a son of a neighbouring village , Iam sure there were few sons of his village who felt why no one from their village was chosen .
Good, that example of Guru Nanak, Kavita.
Thank you Parmartha , only hope Shantam doesn’t think Iam throttling him , that is not my intention .
This example of Guru Nanak is beautiful but 100% unfitting in Osho’s context.
By calling it good example shows Parmartha has no sense to create distinction between apple and peaches.
OSHO DID NOT PASS HIS TORUCH TO ANY OF HIS DISCIPLE.
Mahesh Yogi, Osho’s contemprarory master from the same Jabalpur and equally successful among the foreigners has passed the toruch to one of his disciple who was not connected by blood or nationality.
Let us presume If Osho has chosen any ABC as successor surely, few others would have felt resentment but it is not the case.
In the spiritual history of masters, Osho’s Future plan is a unique case. May be it was the effect of Sheela episode, Osho has left behind collective leadesrhip.
To ignore this fact is a blunder, a white lie.
Total misunderstanding Shantam. Lucky that I work with survivors of torture from non English speaking places, as I do understand the difficulties of understanding the nuances of written English.
Osho’s spiritual legacy is nothing to do with the temporal organisational directions he left, which you consider such a mess, but not an opinion I share.
Osho’s spiritual legacy is with those sannyasins who have become enlightened, some whom remain quiet, and a few who do not.
Many in your camp seem to be very unhappy that any sannyaisn has become enlightened.
Dont forget that Osho said it only needs 200 enlightened beings in his stream, and the whole world can be changed.
Many in your camp seem to be very unhappy that any sannyaisn has become enlightened.
What a blatant lie.
Mr. editor, show me a single post where I said this.
MY position is very clear, ii I have no interest in any body’s enlightenement, neither I have condemnation.
But yes, if someone plays a public role, then valid criticism is part of the public life.
You seem totally preoccupied by the temporal organisation aorund Osho and condemning it, that is what I see.
Your total lack of interest in his spiritual legacy is clear by you saying that you “have no interest” in any body’s enlightenment…. …
But that was Osho’s whole real work, to get individuals to be totally free. How can you not be interested in that?
Shantam , of course Osho did not propagate any one disciple after him as any kind of legacy , but existentially Amrito & Jayesh were present in his last moments , of course I do not claim any authority as I was not present , but this could be my limited understanding that even if Osho may have had a certain vision , a lot got hampered due to his American fiasco & the later happenings indicates there is an energy which is out of anyone’s reach , if it is otherwise do enlighten me & others like me .
OSHO DID NOT PASS HIS TORCH TO ANY OF HIS DISCIPLE.
I do not agree with this. Osho did not have a torch as such, more like a warehouse full of fireworks, and they are still being lit all over the world by those who were touched by the old boy. Ballad of a thin man, once again.
”This example of Guru Nanak is beautiful but 100% unfitting in Osho’s context.”
Btw it was not meant in Osho’s context , Shantam but in your context it fits 100% .
I Swami Iqbal Shantam = ISIS of Oshoism
”And also why do you think/feel that going in search of another/one more Master is a crime in your book? No one I know here, including me, has any problem with you having one more wife!”
I had written this in your reference to Veena’s travel , & it has been a very pleasant surprise to hear the horse speak . I haven’t read any of her books , would love to read her book which is not in publication right now , hope I find it . Reading her response to you is a delight .
Veena’s recent book is
“Glimpses of My Master” by Veena Schlegel, published 2015, is now available, Kavita. It contains the text of her earlier book “A Seam for the Master” but much new material also.
Ok dear , thank you for letting me know that , shall get a copy online .
Thanks, Big P, unfortunately, is not available in E-books. Have to get in Amazon. By the way, could you elaborate a bit about Mindfulness? Everybody is doing it. I trust your health is doing very well! Cheers!
And also why do you think/feel that going in search of another/one more Master is a crime in your book? No one I know here, including me, has any problem with you having one more wife!
Going to another master is not a crime in my book.
I don’t think adultary is a crime. It is needed when one party is not satisfied wih what is provided in a one to one way.
I also don’t think being Nymphomanic is a abnormal state. Statistically, Osho attracted spiritual Nymphos more than any one else. I don’t see any rush of change in any other school, cult ot sect.
( one can ask oneself is Osho Sannyas a religion, a cult, a sect, a movement or a frozen lake?)
Neither i think adultary is a crime nor widow remarriage.
How long one should remain faithful to a photo?
What i find disgusting is, Sleeping with Sunita and calling Oh Anita..Oh Anita…Oh Oh Oh ….
Iam sure you call the right name ! I prefer not to take any name !
Madhu , there was thunder & I woke up to it , now it is showering here !
“Dont forget that Osho said it only needs 200 enlightened beings in his stream, and the whole world can be changed.”
Was Osho repeating the above statement everyyear?
Any way Parmartha, you can share the names of two three such great guys and girls. I don’t mind if it is you in your eyes or Lokesh or Arpana, Satyadeva or Alan Lüwe, Somendra or Rajan, Devageet or Veena, Shunyo or Maneesha…
Many are silent and not “teachers” or “Masters” but driving taxis. You would I hope recognise them if you ever take the right cab.
Most commentators say there are a good few public figures (around 50) in India who were Osho sannyasins who are enlightened. I dont know, it is not my sub-continent. Kavita may be able to comment.
I met and sat with New Zealand Mikaire, and also from New Zealand, Maitreya. The first no longer teaches, except to a small number of inner disciples, and Maitreya is deceased. They were both enlightened in my book.
Those I trust, who have been to see Osho sannaysin, Tyohar, in his Costa Rican commune, also consider he is the real deal.
None of the people you list to try and tag me some bait are enlightened in my view, though I am acquainted with them all.
Parmartha , frankly I have met too many Indian Mas & Swamis of this quality , it is hard to make a list and also I don’t consider myself qualified to announce it publically .
Maitreya was an old pal of mine. He did have a powerful meditative vibe last time we met, but enlightened….I doubt that very mucho. Tyohar I have met a few times and he is no more enlightened than Tiddles, my amazing talking siamese cat. Most of the more enlightened people I am aquainted with are pretty quiet people who never talk in terms of enlightened or not. Met a wonderful doctor in Scotland 30 years ago and he was pretty enlightened, as was a charming doctor I met in Rishikesh. He ran a free clinic for the poor. The most enlightened person I know is Chung, my other siamese cat. He says stay with the I Am and drop all this enlightenement number and that way you will come to realize that you will not recognize an enlightened human being until you are enlightened, by which time you will not be concerned with such cat shit. He says ‘meeeeow’ to all the readers on SN.
I’m enlightened
“The most enlightened person I know is Chung, my other siamese cat. He says stay with the I Am and drop all this enlightenement number and that way you will come to realize that you will not recognize an enlightened human being until you are enlightened, by which time you will not be concerned with such cat shit.” / Lokesh
Having had a bit of a hang in and – over about your yesterday ´s evening contribution , Lokesh (5 June, 2015 at 6:08 pm), which I couldn´t deny either ,
yet did put my mind in a trauma carousel…
Today´s morning, to share with us all your insights is simply delicious and gives a really good treat.
You know ?— in 1983, the Dalai Lama had been invited in Munich or was it in Frankfurt ? where was my main home base at that time. Anyway -:
To meet Him, we all had assembled in a huge church being in full and (over-)existed expectation , of Him delivering a ´holy´speech. but what He did is talking endlessly about the cat (a simple one, no siam, just a house-cat he had met at His host´s place.
Soon, the huge church space with a little more than a thousand visitors was filled with ripples of laughter and warmed by smiles of the attendance;
while His glance to embrace the audience was as awake and as deep that anybody felt , like as touched by a caressing hand.
And even all these angles being painted on the walls centuries ago seemed to be alive entities.
He seemed to love us little bunch of ´orange Osho people in a corner –
and a Namaste´went from here-to-here.
Yes, there are moments , which fall out of time, and in a miraculous way, you reminded me on THIS.
Namaste´, Lokesh
and my special greetings for Tiddles and Chung !
Madhu
200 Enlightend people in osho’s stream…
Aha!
I hope few people don’t get heart attack to see Shantam in the list too!
Hiyall…
been travelling and unravelling …been also to Palma in Majorca connecting with Osho friends …where there’s a new young and inviting Osho community project taking off …its a not -for- profit sharing and living together new venture ….in a rustic stone finca/farm in stunning landscape with views of mountainous Majorca and that mediterranean sound of crickets ( no ball , lbw , rubbing red leather balls along the crease etc)…
I had a lovely time with friends two former Ko Hsuannee students Ma Kanika and Ma Charu at their home in enchanting Palma. Total revisit for me of my connections through welcome friendship dissolving the dry run of these last years of Osho networking. Its fantastic to tell stories and gather your own shared insights amongst friends without any luminous imposed agenda and hilarious too. Ko Hsuan was very much like that, but I was privileged to be amongst life-long combatants who enjoyed a good ruck without breakages. I’m privileged to say that the kids took one long look at me and knew exactly what they were not going to do. I perfectly fulfilled their expectations of a teacher !
Its opening its doors on the 1st Sept and their website is up on 1st July… In the meantime here’s their facebook for your Q’s and A’s https://www.facebook.com/dimamallorca?pnref=story
Mallorca/ Palma really is very old and serene .. not the tourist nightmare I imagined.