Q: Namaste, beloved Mahadevi!
For a few days now certain thoughts come up in me again and again, and I want to share them with you.
When I was reading your book I felt you could become a guide to sannyasins. I thought by supporting us on our path, you will also save Osho’s legacy, but after reading your article on the Samadhi issue, although it is full of insights I am very disappointed….
Is it not very important to save it or is it not possible anymore?
I don’t want to sit on this energy, I tried Dynamic, but the issue keeps coming back. Is there anything I can do? I am waiting for your answer!
Mahadevi:
Dear fellow Sannyasin, All the time I receive information and questions from sannyasins on this issue. Mostly they are very concerned about the Poona resort. But I preferred to remain a silent watcher for two reasons: Firstly, it is believed that Osho himself had chosen his commune leaders. Even though many old members have been ousted, or may have left of their own accord, some still hold their positions there.
The second reason is more severe: it is the state of sannyas. It is sad, but since the downfall of the Ranch, most sannyasins lack inner strength and lost their will to stand up for sannyas and for Osho.
Of course, everything about Osho is still important, but it is virtually impossible to save it – such is the state of sannyas today. Sannyasins would have to first change their attitudes and priorities drastically. It is challenging: Are they ready to do it?
In this regard I wholeheartedly value your attitude and love for Osho and that you want to do something. The rebel in you has not died and it is for you and all other Osho lovers that I want to share my views on this.
So firstly, how can you save Osho’s legacy and for what? Who is qualified to inherit it?
The question in itself arises only because sannyas has “failed.” So the problem is bigger and much more important than Osho’s legacy alone. His entire work including his sannyas is threatened, and from all sides!
I would like to illustrate the problems sannyas is encountering today with a situation I recently faced. A seeker, who is a mother, told me that she read Osho and felt attracted to his teachings, but when she saw a report on him in TV she changed her opinion. Osho’s work was presented in such a bad way, she felt sannyas was ugly and could eventually be harmful for her child.
This incident brought all underlying issues of sannyas to the surface and triggered many questions. Some of them I would like to put here before you.
Where does sannyas stand today and where is it going?
How strong still is the impact of Rajneeshpuram’s unlucky, short-lived history?
Are sannyasins again ready to stand up for sannyas, and how much?
What can be done to reanimate sannyas, so that it rejuvenates into a healthy presence?
How should Osho’s work be carried forward into a misinformed and therefore hostile society?
There is no doubt that Osho dedicated his entire life to waking people up. He strived to free them from their unconscious and to guide them onto a spiritual path. Aware of this, it was painful for me to see a seeker in need and in such a dilemma!
In my view, everything happening in sannyas and to sannyas affects each sannyasin individually.
So both the enthusiasm of Poona-1 and the downfall of Rajneeshpuram affected all the sannyasins deeply.
Until the disaster of the Ranch the sannyas community was united, and sannyasins were enthusiastically following one goal, so they were strong, and stood up unwaveringly for sannyas.
Then they were a solid pillar of Osho’s work, and as a result of this their own spiritual growth was nurtured!
But after the events at Rajneeshpuram strong anti-sannyas sentiments arose from everywhere, which suffocated the further development of sannyas and left sannyasins scattered and weak. It became a great opportunity for people who had wanted to see sannyas eradicated all along. Ever since then, they hammer on the crimes and other activities at Rajneeshpuram. They want the backbone of sannyas to be broken and sannyasins in a position where they never get together again. They have partly succeeded, sannyasins are not united anymore, have even become hostile to each other.
But by blaming and opposing each other or certain people, the situation will not change.
Sannyasins need to investigate into the matter with a fresh mind and not hang onto old perceptions; otherwise we will not come to the root cause of the problems. But if this is done, it will bring back the enthusiasm for spiritual and personal growth.
Once upon a time flourishing sannyas energy was like an ever lasting phenomenon, but unfortunately it is now as if we are going through a long winter. What has changed?
The prime reason certainly is the physical absence of the master. Without his guidelines sannyasins are unable to deal with sannyas and move forward. Without him, sannyas is scattered and has lead to the formation of splinter groups. Add to that the emotional injuries and internal disputes. I have heard harsh judgements from sannyasins about each other. They believe fellow sannyasins close themselves off and purposefully ignore anything they dislike or judge others with their big spiritual egos.
Lost in the jungle of Osho’s words, sannyasins resort to repeating him: “Osho said this, Osho said that…and so on.” They don’t bring Osho’s actions and teaching to the basic scientific understanding Osho wanted.
Are we sannyasins in a position to say or do things Osho did?
He had his views, his various reasons and goals on different occasions, so his statements are almost always contradictory to his previous statements. How then can somebody take any of his statements permanently for granted and make a philosophy out of it?
I remember one discourse: It was not long before Osho left for America, when he explained strongly and in detail why he would never leave India. But soon not only Osho, the whole ashram moved to America.
One can also see how Osho responded to situations, when he asked at a certain time to wear the robe and mala and at another time to drop it.
Why did Osho asked sannyasins to wear his mala and dress in the sannyas color?
It was because he had planned a master project, for which he eventually built the Rajneeshpuram commune. The color and the mala were energy agents for sannyasins and symbols of one unified goal!
Have you ever come to know what Rajneeshpuram was for, what Osho wanted to execute with it and how and why it was built in the US?
I looked through the writings of his personal staff; and even they did not have a clue to his true intentions! Osho was so secretive and careful with his work and such an extraordinary artist that, disguised in thousands of other words, he openly introduced his gigantic project, but still nobody has been able to understand him.
He was possessed by the project, it had his absolute priority, and everybody from top to bottom was there to function for it, including himself!
Then one day Osho permitted his people to drop the mala and the robes. He saw that his project and the Ranch had failed and many sannyasins withdrew themselves. They did not want to support his work anymore. So he freed them from their robes, freed them symbolically from the responsibilities of a disciple, so that they could feel free to move on.
Dropping robes was not at all a positive development, but the signal for his departure. Osho had not given up after the Rajneeshpuram disaster, because he expected it more than ninetynine percent, although it came earlier and was more disastrous than he had anticipated.
After the Ranch, so many sannyasins gave up their support, which made Osho leave his body early – without his project he had no reason to remain here anymore. This is one of the very sad facts behind Osho’s untimely death!
So be alert, sannyas is more than just the spiritual initiation of an individual. Our behaviour and perception that Osho is no longer accessible as a master indicate our disassociation with sannyas – and eventually portrays the message that Osho has failed.
So in my example, the matter is not just about robes and malas, it’s about our trust in Osho. It is about our responsibilities towards the Master, who nurtured us in his spiritual womb. And if we don’t pay importance even to the gestures of sannyas, neither will our spiritual growth be easy nor will we be able to become instruments for Osho’s work. Then what Gurudakshina, reverence will we be able to pay to our Master?
Osho had only limited time for his project, but so much to do on so many different levels.
Therefore he had to talk and talk and convince the people he needed. He knew it was dangerous for the spiritual growth and the mind of sannyasins, but he had no other way, so he warned again and again: “Don’t look at my finger, grasp the moon I am pointing at.” But unfortunately, most sannyasins received the enormous knowledge Osho poured out in topsyturvy style. This damaged their growth, they became stuck in the mind, and subsequently their energy became stagnant and stale. The worst thing that happened is that they now believe they are witnessing themselves and know who they are. What an unlucky obstacle they put up on their path?!
However, I also see a positive side to the whole situation. I have noticed spiritual developments in sannyasins, which in other people do not easily happen. It needs certain energy and a phenomenon like the buddhafield to bring about particular chemical changes in man, which can trigger an interdependent psychological and eventually spiritual development. Trust, love and an energetically charged atmosphere play a big role in letting go of old conditioning, of the known, and prepare the seeker to enter the unknown, the mysterious. Therefore Osho had created the awareness for his tremendously potent buddhafield, so his sannyasins could preserve and maintain it even after his disembodiment.
Sannyasins were tremendously lucky to experience the mysterious energy of his buddhafield. But its vibrations, undercurrents and frequencies have left a blueprint on the psyche of sannyasins, which drives them to look for substitutes for the lost commune. So I am not surprised when most of my sannyas friends share with me that they miss living in a commune. Those were the golden days of their lives!
What sannyasins have grasped is only a fraction of the divine energy that they actually absorbed. Everyone who soaked in Osho’s buddhafield is now charged with it. Sannyasins’ bodies have become temples and pieces of the buddhafield, so much so that if they are brought together the same magical energy field will be formed, like solved pieces of a puzzle make the picture appear. Should this happen, Osho’s omnipresent consciousness, his spirit, will be strongly perceived, filling the vacuum his death left behind. It will be like a rocket launcher, which will propel the consciousness of sannyasins to the sky, giving them a new and higher view of their own spiritual journey.
The mysterious energy of the buddhafield makes our love for Osho eternal and our connection to sannyas unbreakable. We feel most comfortable living together or close to sannyasins, therefore sannyasins kept themselves connected to Osho centres and the transmission of sannyas alive. Something is better than nothing!
The centres are not their own commune, instead they are islands controlled by the Poona resort, apparently giving them rules and regulations contributing nothing to their maintenance or prosperity. Obviously, there was hardly any growth in the sannyas centres for the past twenty years.
In this connection I want to add here an example of old times, which is topically still valid: Michael and other friends, who built and maintained the Far Out disco in Berlin told me that the disco was the most successful in the city. But the Rajneeshpuram fundraisers came regularly to empty the accounts and pockets of sannyasins. Slowly the disco had a hard time to keep up the maintenance and its image of the best disco in town. Sannyasins had built the disco alone and never received any help from the Rajneeshpuram commune. But the fund-collectors could not even see that if you don’t oil and maintain a money minting machine, it will break down one day.
The resort may not be draining the centres anymore financially, but it still sees sannyasins as objects to be used and not as members of one sannyas family.
The difference between Rajneeshpuram and Poona-2 is: the Ranch was a fascist dictatorship and the resort turned into an absolute monarchy, where a king dominates everything for his personal interest.
But what sannyasins need now exists nowhere: a commune by sannyasins and for sannyasins.
Everybody’s opinion should be heard and all contributions should be equally respected. This is absolutely necessary for a healthy sannyas – after such a long time without the physical presence of the Master.
Osho changed the commune leaderships and regularly shuffled people in positions around, be it for their spiritual growth or otherwise. It is a pity but also a fact that many weird people, who had no spiritual understanding or interest, came to sannyas for power, sex, or other reasons, and reached to powerful positions – because Osho tried to use their ambitions for his work. But as long as Osho was in the body the situation could come under control, sooner or later.
Unfortunately, there is no hope for this anymore!
In India Osho was defamed as “the guru for the rich,” but he sometimes refused even wealthy people with non-spiritual interests – when they were not needed for his work. I know such a person, he was an established Indian from Bombay and knew him from the early sixties and had talked to him personally on several occasions. As the man told me his story, he showed me a letter of Osho, still referring to him as acharyaji. After Osho had moved to America and the Rajneeshpuram commune had become popular, he wrote to Osho that he wanted to take sannyas.
Osho replied: “Now there is no need for you to become a sannyasin, my sannyasins are already here.” When Osho was talking about repression, in particular sexual repression, and offered his help by introducing modern meditations, he was strongly criticised and discriminated against. He did not get any cooperation for his work. It needed support from people who stood up for themselves or at least intellectually understood the value of his work. This was the main reason for introducing his sannyas and for sannyasins openly standing up for it. But then powerful people in India and also abroad shied away from taking sannyas. Later when Osho became world famous many of them wanted to take sannyas to gain position and power, to be on the list of who’s who – or to go to America.
Fortunately, those days have passed, but if you can still hear the call of the Master today, Osho’s work needs his sannyasins again – with energy, enthusiasm and rebellious fire. In his words: “When I leave my body, I will be in my sannyasins.” At that time Osho was standing alone against the vast majority, of the unconscious ritual-oriented humanity.
Today, rather than isolating and limiting ourselves – or compromising with our backwardsociety- of-modern-make-up, we can still show that sannyas is the dynamic path (now highway) towards the ultimate freedom, which Buddha attained and Osho brought into our everyday life.
The truth of his message cannot be touched, because it is our own experience of the divine potential of man! We are thousands and if the sannyasins decide, we will again make a difference to the world.
We have already found the path towards home, but why are we unable to celebrate our sangha?
Why is our sannyas declining?
We are stronger than the people who stood against Osho. It takes courage to jump into the unknown ocean – to swim across it. We had the innocence and trust towards our master that we left a secure existence behind to walk on the rough path of sannyas.
Have we changed now or have we become weak? Where does Osho fall short that his rebels have lost the integrity of sannyas and started compromising?
Of course, in the spiritual sense we are not weak, but our strength is that of a flower, not that of Mohammad Ali, as Osho used to say. So if we remain individual and distant from each other, we and our sannyas will become more vulnerable to the harshness of anti-sannyas elements, outside as well as inside the sannyas world.
In this connection I remember the fateful day, when the pagoda over Osho’s podium in Poona was demolished. Why did existence make me a witness to that crime?!
It was during the white robe brotherhood and I was guarding the front gate of the commune. I was actually the caretaker for the Samadhi and guarded the gates only once a week for three hours, but that matched the time exactly.
Usually there were no work activities during the white robe meditation, because it was compulsory to participate in it. So when I heard noises inside the resort, I thought first that they came from the Sunderban Hotel next door. But after a while a truck arrived and I had to let it in. I wondered what urgent work was going on that it had to be done during the evening meditation. I asked the guard from Meera, the opposite gate, to take care of my position as I was going for a break. I went inside and was shocked to see that within half an hour the pagoda was half demolished. I have never seen work happening in India at that speed.
I sat down at the former entrance to Buddha Hall and held my head in my hands watching what was going on. For a few minutes I did not know what to do or say, and to whom. I felt absolutely helpless. But somehow I gathered myself and went close. Indian sannyasin Abhipsa was in charge of the demolition. I saw that there was nothing that I could do to prevent it at that point, but I felt like getting a piece of marble for myself. I asked Abhipsa if I could take a piece, but he refused. Then I asked him what was to be done with the debris, but he avoided giving me an answer.
A large number of workers were working relentlessly to bring the small pagoda down.
In less than two hours the whole work was done and before the meditation was over, the truck with debris was going out. As it came to the gates, Abhipsa helped me to open them. I quickly got a chance and picked a piece of marble off the truck, put it in my pocket. So if I could not manage to save the pagoda, at least I had a part of it secured. I can hold it to my heart – the living diamond that witnessed closely the beauty of a Buddha!
The incident as such contracted my chest severely, it became emotionally very painful. To get a little relief, after the guarding I rushed to the internet café to write to Michael. He had built Buddha Hall and maintained it for years, and he had never understood why they were so much in a hurry to take it down. When they wanted him to take it down, he had refused and preferred to leave for a new visa. He left to Thailand before the demolition work was scheduled.
Like everybody else, he had no information that the pagoda was also on the demolition list! He had clearly informed the resort that the marquee was structurally sound and that there was no urgency to demolish it. But, as if hypnotised, they were in a big hurry to demolish Buddha Hall. Their ruthless attitude was painful for him.
I still remember the last white robe meditation in Buddha Hall. Michael was sad and his tears were rolling throughout the discourse. When the meditation was over, he set himself aside and folded his legs to the chest like a child. Sitting close to him, my tears were also coming, because I could feel his pain. If it was so emotional for a young sannyasin like me, I could imagine how hard it must have been for him and other old sannyasins.
He was so quiet, I became concerned and stroked his head. Slowly he started to open his heart in a whisper. He had so many memories; they went way back to Poona-1, when he sat in Buddha Hall, freshly bathed, waiting for Osho to come for discourse. He could still hear the sound of the gravel, when Osho’s car rolled around Buddha Hall in the morning mist. He recollected when sometimes monkeys were running across the tin roof and the trains were honking long and loudly during Osho’s talks. He remembered one day when Laxmi drove Osho in his car in reverse gear away from the Buddha Hall after he was attacked with a knife by a local Hindu extremist. She nearly rammed into Michael, while he was carrying the breakfast teakettles on a bamboo stick. Luckily he managed to jump into the garden balancing the teakettles.
He relived his intense but beautiful memories with tears.
We and many other sannyasins remained in Buddha Hall for a long time, maybe until midnight, when a guard came to ask everybody to leave. Everybody was still sad, crying and remembering the precious moments with The Master.
The following day Michael left for Thailand, but in the resort the energy was down and I had to watch when people walked disrespectfully on the podium with their shoes on.
Every hundred meters in India one can find a temple, a church, a mosque or other religious places. Even in the middle of the highway they stand and nearly all of these structures are illegal. But no government will dare to demolish them, because it would hurt the religious feelings of the people worshipping at these places.
But Osho’s small pagoda on private property had to be demolished at any cost – because it was supposedly illegal. If the resort would have wanted, nobody would have created a problem. It was about a small building, smaller than the front gate. They could have kept it intact and the 8 government officials in a secular country would not have objected, because they would have to respect the devotional sentiments of sannyasins.
The place, where Osho sat for years and meditated was energetically charged – those lifeless marble-slates were now buzzing with life, they had been inseminated by the life energy of a living Buddha. It was no less sacred than the Kaaba in Mecca!
If small objects like Osho’s hair and nails were given to sannyasins as energy gifts from Osho, then one can see how much the big ones like the podium, pagoda or Samadhi must be charged, how alive they must be. But the resort has no respect for Osho, otherwise they would not let paid workers walk insensitively and with shoes over the podium or let them work in the Samadhi and misbehave there in ways they would never dare in their own temples!
These attacks on Osho’s Buddhafield were justified by the resort, arguing that Osho himself asked for a new Meditation Hall and a complete renovation of his private room after his death and therefore he would not mind other demolitions – even if he was in his body.
There is thin line between demolition and destruction and we all know Osho’s actions have been and still are a big mystery, so how could anybody jump to such conclusions?
But the disrespect of the resort did not end there; they purposefully continued destroying Osho’s work intentionally.
First it may have been more about dealing with the structures associated with Osho, but then the resort leaders began slowly to edge sannyasins out who as Osho lovers were maintaining the resort with love and care.
Sannyasins had their own experiences of Osho and his teaching and were not always ready to blindly follow orders. So the resort decided to replace them with cheap, paid Indian workers, who were not in a position to contradict them and were there only for the money. Many of them were very bad mannered, with no respect for Osho or sannyas.
I have overheard workers passing vulgar and mean comments about Osho and his sannyasins, referring to him as, “Wo budha bahut chalu tha!” meaning, “That old man (Osho) was a crook!” Coincidently, in Hindi budha means old man, but it is used only in disrespect. Or they passed lewd remarks mainly about sannyasin women, lustfully casting their eyes over their bodies. But the resort, having no sensitivity towards Osho or his sannyasins, did not mind these insults, as they were too determined to get the commune sannyasin-free.
Osho’s pictures and other objects which could keep memories of Osho alive were not tolerated and taken down.
This was not even fully implemented, when the next attack came. This time it was about the core of Osho’s work, his discourses. They started doing so much editing of his discourses that one can no longer recognise that they are his words. In his lifetime, Osho could have afforded the best editor, but for good reasons he allowed only proofreading and no editing.
Osho’s teachings and his sannyas are distorted and seekers are being misled from the path of sannyas. Even if temples are broken, a seeker should not be misinformed or misguided!
As sannyasins we have the responsibility to become instruments of Osho’s work, but the destructive resort, which has never understood Osho and therefore is not only incapable, but also has no real intention to carry his work forward.
Osho has repeatedly said his work is two hundred years in advance, so obviously there is no need for unconscious or subconscious people to try to improve on the work of a superconscious being or to remodel it.
If anything needs a remodelling then it is Osho’s administration. Instead of making changes to Osho’s work, his “administrators” should be replaced for new, fresh energy and brains to present it gracefully, to carry it forward rightly.
For us Osho’s teachings, his original work, his multimedia property, his Samadhi and his sannyas needs to be respected the way he always wanted. It would be too bad, if in 100 years only traces of Osho are left behind – when his work had been reduced to Osho Bibles, dictated by un(w)holy business interests.
These attacks are rapidly killing the soul of Osho’s work and sannyas. And it is obviously only the beginning. All those people who are executing the ideas of the resort are either brainwashed that they are doing what Osho has said or overly ambitious – doing anything for their positions. If sannyasins let them continue with their infamy then the forty years of work, in which Osho went through enormous physical pain and even went to prison, will be wasted. The resort neither believes in Osho’s enlightenment nor in his spiritual work and doesn’t give a damn, because they are not meditators – even for fashion.
Their expertise is how to use, misuse and discard people useless to them. That’s why Osho brought them there and to that position! To oppose them individually and directly is naïve and a waste of energy.
However, everything of Osho can be saved – if sannyasins want it and commit themselves. For our own sake, the supreme secrets of spirituality which Osho left behind should be protected.
There are spiritually coded secrets in Osho’s work which should remain intact – at any cost.
They are the real diamonds of his teaching – for his disciples to discover. They are vital help in crucial moments on the spiritual path!
I see only two possible ways to save everything Osho left behind and a third one is more of a miracle, which is unlikely to happen. So which of the two possible ways sannyasins will prefer, needs to be decided first. They are both extremely challenging and demand everybody’s equal participation. If sannyas attains to a sufficient strength and integrity, I will explore the details of this.
First one has to realize that to save sannyas and Osho’s spiritual property, with all the internal and external problems that this entails, it is not an ordinary job to be done by an individual or even by a centre. It demands a huge amount of energy, much effort and master planning. But in our current sannyas situation, we are too weak to deal even with the smallest issues. Now the right things need to be done, or if not, then it is better not to waste the time and energy and harm oneself in the process!
If the entire sannyas community is organised, it can handle all these issues. We are also in need of a central commune to bring as many sannyasins as possible together. So far there are only centres, but no central commune of sannyasins.
In India there is a parable to display the strength of unity: if we make a bundle of sticks they are difficult to break, but individual sticks can be easily broken. When sannyasins are totally united, sannyas will be rejuvenated and it will have the strength to face the anti-sannyas elements, and to save Osho’s property, including sannyas. Sannyas is also Osho’s property and nobody has the right to alter it!
A sannyasin is like pollen to Osho’s work, and every sannyasin is a vital aspect of it. So it is important that we are centralised and at the same time reach out to the furthest corners of the world.
We need to proceed from a space of abundance, express our love towards our fellow sannyasins and support them when they are in need. This new attitude will also contribute to sannyasins’ social wellbeing.
I have heard, for instance of sannyasins who are fatally ill and have no other support than a few friends, who in turn have to beg for money to give a decent life or farewell to a poor fellow traveller.
Just a few weeks ago, I received an email about Swami Rupesh, who is very sick. He was working for years in the ashram and was one of the passionate drummers of Osho. In his love to Osho, he devoted his life and love towards the beauty of the ashram, but now in a critical health, he is left without money for his treatment. His friends are supporting him, but alone they could not afford the treatment, so they had to “beg” for money through the internet. I don’t know whether it worked out… my best wishes go to him and his friends!
It was very painful to see a fellow sannyasin in such situation!
Some sannyasins have misjudged their future social situation, but that should not be a reason to dump them and let them vegetate – they need to be supported to live and die in dignity and love.
These are simply personal calamities and we should not turn our heads away from them!
For all our issues we have an urgent need for an organisation, which should take care of everything impartially as well as bring the entire sannyas community under one roof. It can organise regular sannyas festivals for greater transmission of energy and to boost the spiritual growth of sannyasins, as well as to encourage new seekers.
For this funds will be needed, so we will have to contribute financially towards a united sannyas. As we have already been burned, there should be a legal body to supervise all monetary activities and whose only responsibility is towards all the sannyasins who appoint them.
Sannyas is our pride, we are reborn and nurtured in Osho’s Buddhafield, let us stand up for it.
Sannyas is our roots, and if our roots are cut, our personal growth will be like that of a bonsai and our stand will be vulnerable, wavering. We have to make our roots sturdy to stand firm and expand further and deeper to grow higher.
Sannyasins are our family and we need to support and take care of it now. I know your hearts are buried under the ruins of Rajneeshpuram. But the youth and career you gave to the commune have yet to bear fruit. So if your spirits are not aged with your bones, for once and all revive your deepest energy reserves and bring again a new rebellion.
The beginning of a new era is essential for the climax of your spiritual journey. It will also help future generations to rightly understand Osho and his teachings. It will be a landmark for millions of people still stumbling in the dark to come to sannyas, just as we did.
After his enlightenment, had Osho disappeared into the Himalayas, we would not have experienced a fulfilment and would probably still be stumbling, desperate and unconscious in the dark somewhere. So, he won’t forgive us if we remain aloof and silently watch sannyas declining and his work disappearing.
Dear fellow sannyasin, your great karmas brought you to the most dynamic, but also the most dangerous and difficult Master, so from personal experience I know your life is not easy.
Remember, after Rajneeshpuram fell apart, Osho blamed sannyasins for not supporting him and not standing up against the fascist gang. This should not happen again. Now we should have learned. Otherwise, again sannyasins will be responsible for the actions of his commune leaders, appointed by him.
That’s the style of a Master like Osho: he asks his disciples to meditate and not to interfere in his home, then he puts the fire in his own home, and pretends to be asleep, to test them – what will do they? And if one hair of his beard is burned, he will take hell out on them, even if he is out of the body – you (will) see!
This is a Koan Osho left for his sannyasins to work on!
As time demands, I clearly see that Osho made the right arrangements: if we can prove that we deserve his spiritual legacy, it will be saved automatically – because it is important for his work to continue. Otherwise, he wanted it to be washed away by giving it into the hands of destroyers.
Finally sannyasins will suffer the loss, and it may take lives to realise it!
It is a crucial moment – sannyas has given us a new life, here and beyond, but now it’s time that we give ourselves back to it.
Osho’s work and the spiritual growth of a sannyasin depend on the strength of sannyas. These three aspects are interdependent, and howsoever aloof a sannyasin is they will affect him, spiritually and otherwise.
When we needed Osho, our master, guide and lover, he was with us every moment. Today for his work to continue his sannyasins are needed. After all what we have been experiencing through him, it will be very ungrateful not to listen to his call.
The Eastern scriptures say, if the Master does not receive his gurudakshina, his teachings do not fruit in the disciples. An anecdote in Mahabharatha says, Eklavya, the best archer disciple of Dronacharya, donated even the thumb of his right hand to his master, when it was asked for.
But are we sannyasins now ready to pay the gurudakshina Osho asked for?
Sannyasins who are afraid of losing their routine lives, their families or their positions in the centres or in the resort should understand that the people who value them and their needs will not oust them. So don’t fear.
Let the once rebellious fire, which is now but glowing embers, discover new oxygen and let the flames reach into the sky in full glory. Let our laughter and passion infect others and show them the path to nirvana.
It is not the time to ignore the moment otherwise we will lose everything, and be remembered as obscure followers of a Sex Guru, members of a cult.
But we know better, we have seen glimpses of the beyond! We can again live what we are, the Bodhisatvas of our supreme Buddha. The choice is ours!
For our own sake, I ask all Osho sannyasins – including those who are already in groups, to come forward to build ONE organisation and take the initiative for a new Global sannyas commune – regenerate the groundwork of Osho’s vision.
It is a very arduous task and cannot be done by one or few sannyasins. We all have to come together to work it out!
Transcend any negative emotions towards the sannyas past, they will cause only hindrances. The winter has been long enough. Now it is more than time to allow spring into the garden of our Beloved.
Let us unite and rebuild the Sangha of our Buddha, not for others, but for our own dignity.
Disoriented after the Ranch, we may have “lost” our master twenty years ago, but looking back he has always been close to us as he promised he would be.
On the twentieth anniversary of Osho’s Disembodiment, what can be a better gift to our beloved Master than his sannyasins dropping the minds and starting a new sannyas era?!
Our experiences of living in Osho and his Buddhafield are priceless, but we have to instil a new trust into what seemed to be slowly fading away.
Let’s become again a conscious pillar to Osho’s Sangha, so that the days will soon come, when people want to wear robe and mala out of gratitude and feel privileged to become sannyasins.
Let the time come, when people appreciate Osho’s efforts and teaching for what it is. When enemies realise how hateful they were when they displaced his innocent disciples by demolishing their commune and scattering their sannyas family. When they feel ashamed for misbehaving with Osho, they were so blind that they rejected his offer to turn their miseries into eternal satisfaction and when they feel sorry that they organised his death!
Osho risked his life and the trust of his sannyasins; he suffered in prison, and was finally killed for his vision and courage. He suffered for us and for a dream of a better world. A big injustice has been done!
But we are lucky to be here today. We can rejoin the pieces of Osho’s Buddhafield. Then his life which he gave to wake up humanity will not go in vain and our own spirituality will flower.
Yes, we can do it!
My Osho, my Sannyas!
My Buddha, my Sangha!
Mahadevi
I salute/ hug / bow down/ to you Mahadevi .. for this sharing .. lam sure this existantential Roar will be heard .. through this
as we live a life of ease
everyone of us has all we need
sky of blue and sea of green
in our yellow submarine….
oshobob?
Mahadevi is surely an attractive girl — brown skin and dark hair and eyes — very alluring indeed!
The words are full of provoking content, well constructed, and ending with an impressive rousing call for the reinvigoration of global sannyas and a new commune. Well done!
But what strikes me immediately is…
The picture does not match the text.
Mahadevi may have realised certain profound spiritual levels (far deeper than anything that will be revealed to me, for example) and I don’t question her love of Osho or her sincerity, but I find some things she says are highly contentious, questionable, eg that Osho more or less ‘gave up’, decided he’d had enough of this life when he (according to her) realised that his ‘vision’ wasn’t going to be achieved.
For a start, it’s a far too short-term view. Does she really think that Osho was only working for the people of this time? My view is that Osho’s teaching has penetrated deep enough into the collective psyche , via hundreds of thousands, possibly millions, for it to eventually come to fruition in its own good time, whether in ours or another time (if indeed such time is left, that is). Especially when there’s the legacy of his talks and darshans, all the books, cd’s, tapes, videos, plus the online facilities to spread him all over the world ad infinitum….
So, in a way, perhaps it doesn’t really matter that much what happens to the Poona Resort, including even the marble of the Samadhi.
Very understandable to be concerned that the ashram, that very special place, seems to be under demolition, and that the lying media have presented a distorted picture of him, but ultimately not as important as one might imagine. After all, what else to expect from the arrogant, spiritually ignorant and uninterested know-it-alls of the media anyway (let alone their vested interest paymasters)?!
In suggesting that Osho knew what was going on at the Ranch and simply waited to see how the mass of sannyasins would respond Mahadevi puts the responsibility (it also sounds like blame) squarely upon sannyasins, implying that Osho was ‘infallible’ (and pretty well omniscient as well) that he didn’t make any mistakes, the whole problem was – and is still, of course – of the sannyasins’ making. Including his ‘premature’ death.
This seems to me the viewpoint of a total devotee, but it’s just another viewpoint, and for me, a flawed one. For she doesn’t actually know, any more than anyone else, does she? Just believes what is convenient for her, what fits with her ideal version of Osho.
Flawless devotion, yes…but not necessarily true and for me, over-sentimental and even lacking in common sense.
I think she (and a load of others) can’t accept that ‘it’s over’, ie that there will never be another ‘Poona 1′ (or ‘Poona 2′), it’s dead and gone, if only because Osho has passed on….
Osho used to say that ‘the door will not always be open…’, so while he was here we had to take full advantage….
It’s just not conceivable that many thousands will flock to Poona again for ‘celebrations’ and whatever else – is it?
Local initiatives, yes of course, but that’s about it, I reckon.
So I’m not really impressed. I wouldn’t question her realisations, but for me it’s further evidence that spiritual realisation does not imply one is therefore right on every matter, all the time!
I think she lacks something – some wider understanding (due to still being ‘ruled’, at some level perhaps, by her emotions? Due to an inner confusion between eastern and western influences? – whatever inner flowering she may have arrived at….
I also recall Mahadevi going overboard on Elvis P a year or two ago, ‘bigging him up’ as some sort of sweet innocent.
Well, ok, he may have had a great voice, and used it for, among other things, a few conventionally sentimental ‘religious’ songs, and she may have heard depth and love there…
But look at the man’s actual life and see what a mess it was in the end: obese, drug-reliant, dysfunctional addict…
Are all whom Mahadevi reveres also ‘victims’ of one sort or another?
on her flyers advertising her satsangs in pune a few years ago,mahadevi had the slogan:
“if you can have sex,you can become enlightened”
i must confess,after seeing her mugshot,i was all shook up
to me,the resort had already turned into heartbreak hotel…
i was caught in a trap.i couldn`t walk out…
i couldn`t help falling in love…
but now,it seems,despite her love for elvis,she`s not much of a rocker,more an armchair philsopher dictating her “enlightened views” on the state of the world to a faithful”caretaker”
come on love.
if you love elvis,
you gotta learn how to get on the dancefloor and rock `n` roll.
let the rhythm take you over.
that`s what elvis was about….
I agree with Satya Deva, except :
“Very understandable to be concerned that the ashram, that very special place, seems to be under demolition”
Come on, it is different but it is not under demolition.
“In suggesting that Osho knew what was going on at the Ranch and simply waited to see how the mass of sannyasins would respond Mahadevi puts the responsibility (it also sounds like blame) squarely upon sannyasins, implying that Osho was ‘infallible’ (and pretty well omniscient as well) that he didn’t make any mistakes, the whole problem was – and is still, of course – of the sannyasins’ making. Including his ‘premature’ death.”
Here I disagree with Satya and agree with Mahadevi. Otherwise I generally agree with Satya Deva especially where he says : “I think she lacks something – some wider understanding (due to still being ‘ruled’, at some level perhaps, by her emotions? Due to an inner confusion between eastern and western influences? ”
I think the main problem is that she sees sannyas as a social movement. Thus it is “successful” when there are thousands of sannyasins as at the Ranch and “unsuccessful” when the numbers appear to be fewer. Sannyas is not a social movement. All that exists are individuals each trying to grow in awareness and understanding as best they can.
i would love to take her out dancing,
but i wouldn`t want to have to listen to all that “how to save the world” stuff.
sorry,love,not tonight.
By the way, just going off topic now…
Does anyone tire of the relentless “positive thinking” amongst sannyasins? I have got a sannyasin friend with serious “problems.” But when I try and discuss it with other sannyasin friends, they are endlessly optimistic and refuse to discuss downside possibilities or outcomes. I think this fails my friend because reality is not being faced.
Sometimes i think sannyasins get their ideas from Norman Vincent Peale or Werner Erhart rather than Osho.
you are right john,
i am a firm believer in the power of negative thinking,too!
jeffrey masson considered that the whole of buddhism,and enlightenment religion and their methods as basically a psychological attempt to ward off depresssion.
in this refrence,it is interesting that vivek`s,(osho`s shadow for so many years) intractable problem,that defied sannyasin doctors,therapists and even enlightenment itself, was depression.
bliss seekers and enlightenment seekers want to be on a high 24 hours a day.
a lot like heroin addicts and alcoholics.
(the switch from one to other is quite easy and common,too)
what are they trying to get away from?
that`s a question that`s rarely addressed.
well,there`s the standard answer,samsara,unconsciousness etc.
but what IS that?
try to take their paraphernalia away from them,and see how tetchy they get!
sometimes its neccesary to go cold turkey from comforting thoughts.
Yes, Jeffrey Masson is very good. His ‘Against Therapy’ should be read widely amongst sannyasins who can read.
Most of the stuff seems to be her views of how sannyasins should be.. I am not very impressed with that mother example , the one who changed mind after listening to media.. There will be 1000s like that who really dont understand Osho’ work , kind of never dived into the water .. That is not a big example of what is happening to Osho.. It is not that pessimistic.
The whole article started off on soft note and turn into fsort of fgathering of all sannyasins , collective responsibility , energy in Osho’s hair , marbles.. If that sounds to us like what has happened at the start of any other religion we are not wrong
One thing Osho did is asking people to take responsibity for their own lives , awareness and meditations..
Although i immensely respect some of the feelings of people reagrding what they would like to see and their love for Osho , as Satya Deva mentioned i dont see a pessimistic picture at all.. Infact when 1000s people who read / listen to Osho ..come to meditate , seeds are sown for their growth and that is the real work of Osho .. I dont see the marbles as real problems..
The way Osho spreads and disolves into 1000s of people will be different obiviously with changing times and also because the Master himself is not in body.. How can we expect it has to be the same like what it was yesterday. To me we are seeing more and more people who are very honest and sincere in their seeking coming to Osho for right reasons..
Garimo will not like this representation on behalf of others
” We feel most comfortable living together or close to sannyasins,.. “
” Osho had not given up after the Rajneeshpuram disaster, because he expected it more than ninetynine percent, although it came earlier and was more disastrous than he had anticipated.
After the Ranch, so many sannyasins gave up their support, which made Osho leave his body early – without his project he had no reason to remain here anymore….. ”
His people were always close to him..Didnt they?
And when did Osho do something as a Project with
some goals and all ? And Ranch was not the only way in which Osho guided us ..It was just part of the great experiment he did ..
My understanding is , He even openly disolved the commune model before leaving.
osho marble?
nearly all the sannyasins i know lost their osho marbles a long time ago.
poor old madahevi seems to be suffering from a debilitating case of that old time religion.
i would prescribe an intensive course of rock `n` roll…..
I find it absolutely maddening to be told “it’s your fault that Osho died ” (no, sorry, left his body). After having heard that I killed Jesus and my parents I have to listen to this also!!!
i never worked out the significance of the slogan:
if you can have sex you can become enlightened
any ideas?
it could be full-on all-chakras-covered marketing number….
fear to enlightenment,there`s another punchy title..
primal yet transcendent,sort of thing…..
she slagged off old ecky eckhart pretty heavily,
always a good move to get your retaliation in first on your rivals……
as far as enlightenment is concerned he is in with a grunt,
but in a beauty contest…well……you decide..
she`s the bestlooking EO to pop out of the void for quite a few yugas but has she got the neccesary X factor to go all the way as a world teacher?
let`s see.
Hmm, I guess it’s some sort of improvement.
Kranit seems to gone from speaking for everybody to speaking on my behalf only.
>Garimo will not like this representation on behalf of others
>” We feel most comfortable living together or close to sannyasins,.. “
Seems that Mahadevi is one of those ‘new generation’ young Indians who really want to think, speak, act and be (even!) like westerners, especially like ‘liberated’, ‘hip’ westerners (of course) – but who somehow don’t quite make it (eg the ‘Elvis-on-a-pedestal’, ‘if you can have sex you can be enlightened’ stuff).
Which co-exists uneasily with aspects of the Indian spiritual inheritance, eg absolute devotion and coming together in vast crowds…
Westerners trying to be easterners, easterners wanting to ‘go west’…Can’t make up my mind which is more inappropriately toe-curling!
A shame in Mahadevi’s case, but maybe that’s how things go in these crazy, mjixed-up times….
Re Alok ‘s comment on the state of the ashram, fair enough, I was referring to Mahadevi’s horror at the demolition work she’d observed and described, which didn’t encompass the entire place, of course.
Here’s my question.
Is it important as a silent witness to write long rambling discourses?
> Mahadevi:
>Dear fellow Sannyasin, All the time I receive information and questions from >sannyasins on this issue. Mostly they are very concerned about the Poona >resort. But I preferred to remain a silent watcher for two reasons: …
Seems like that’d have been the place to stop… or get real.
You caught me Garimo.. The moment i posted ‘ Garimo will not.. ‘ I knew i didnt use right words..
It should atleast be ” Garimo may not… “
It is too pessimistic to talk about demolition in such a general way .. It sounds like one of those demolition acts done by a metropolitan / municipal guys who bulldoze a building because the owner didnt go along well with the government….Another word freely used is ‘ Attack ‘.. Not fair considering what beautiful place Pune is and all the efforts they take to keep Osho flame alive…. While she was so concerned about that ‘ mother ‘ moving away from osho due to incorrect presentation of Osho by TV , she could have been more thoughtful in using these terms like demolitions and attacks..
This one from her website sounds very different from the above thread.. Seems to be more balanced..( With few contradictions thrown in )
‘ http://www.mahadevi.info/neem-leaf-01.html “
If a situation is imbalanced then to provide a balanced account of it is misleading and erroneous.
well,the poor girl seems to have taken quite a comprehensive beating from the spiritual hardmen here at jackassnews.
so lads,eye-candy not withstanding,it`s a definite thumbs down on the enlightenment-wisdom front,eh?
ONE THINGH I FIND COMMON AND AMAZING THAT EVERYONE IN SANNYAS WORLD WOULD LIKE TO SEE CHANGE IN MANAGEMENT IN PUNE, BUT WAITING FOR OTHER PERSON OR SOMEONE ELSE TO GO AND MAKE THAT CHANGE. INSTEADING OF TALKING RESPOSIBLITITY ……….MY FEELING IS WE ARE LACKING ONENESS AMOUNG US.
WE ALL LIKE SOMEONE ELSE TO FIGHT FOR OUR FREEDOM . UN FORTUNAITLY IT DOES NOT WORK THAT THAT. FOR EXPMPLE TAKE MAHADEVI AND HER FINAL CALL ARTICKEL. SOUNDS GOOD , BUT QUESTION IS DOES SHE FOLLOW HER FEELINGS OR WAITING FOR SOMEONE ELSE TO TO RESORT AND FIGHT , SO SHE CAN HAVE FREEDOM .
AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNING, I DID MY FIGHT AND LOST , AND GOT BANNED, BUT I NEVER STOP FIGHTING , I WILL ADVICE EVERYONE TO STAND AGAINST THE ACTIVITIES WHICH HAPPENING IN RESORT AND SPECAILLY ACTIVITY WHICH OSHO WOULD NEVER HAVE APPROAVED.
SANNYAS NEWS. PLEASE DO NOT CENCER OR DELETE MY MESSAGES, THIS IS NOT A PERSONAL FIGHT WITH SOMEONE THERE . THIS IS WHAT LOTS OF US WOULD LIKE AND MANY OF US ARE FIGHTING IN DIFFRENT WAY . METHODS MAY BE DIFFRENT , WORDS MAY BE DIFFRENT . BUT FEELINGS ARE SAME
LOVE AND BLESSINGS TO YOU
What is she saying? Me, me, me, I know better what sanyas is…
What is she asking? Do not give your money to Pune resort, but give it to me!
Hey, what is new in the market?
‘Fraid so, Frank.
Interim Report:
Tries hard, makes sincere effort…Does her best work when silent….
Alok John:
I think the main problem is that she sees sannyas as a social movement. Thus it is “successful” when there are thousands of sannyasins as at the Ranch and “unsuccessful” when the numbers appear to be fewer. Sannyas is not a social movement. All that exists are individuals each trying to grow in awareness and understanding as best they can.
I’m inclined to agree there, Alok. But hasn’t this been the case for many over the years, with so much going on that it’s been hard to see the wood for the trees?
Where are any sanyas efforts that would be collective?
Efforts that every one of us, as individuals, would share meditation together…remember, meditation?
Efforts, that do not include somebody claiming to be enlightened, and therefore giving satsangs or offer therapy groups or festivals? Efforts that do not involve somebody to start a new place and needs founding?
Efforts without power and money trips in other words?
What does it tell about me and you?
Why do you spend all your time to critize others? What have you done your self?
” Sannyas is not a social movement. All that exists are individuals each trying to grow in awareness and understanding as best they can …. ”
On the dot..
I feel , as long as we meditate and share our silence with others inspiring them to move closer to Osho our work is done.. Anything beyond that will divert our own awareness and growth…
In the article she posted in her website she sounded very different from the way she is sounding here. She even suggested that objecting to people chosen by Osho is objecting Osho himself.. I dont agree with the idea of blind obedience but i am just pointing a contradiction here Or may be she has changed her stance since then..
Where is Shantam Prem, The great
Pull back and look at this situation with a sober perspective — we don’t know much really here as to this piece of writing or the photo that comes with it.
Did the young lady we see in the picture with sunglasses write this article? Unknown. Is her name Mahadevi? Unknown. Is she an Osho sannyasin? Unknown. Does she have a friend whose name is Michael, did she write the book “From Fear to Enlightenment”… in other words, what do we really know for sure here? Not much.
This girl could be pulled out of central casting and paid $2,000 for rights to put her image on the above said writing. Perhaps she’s just an Indian girl that needed some money to pay for her mother’s hip replacement, or any other practical motivation.
To me, she just doesn’t look like the type of person that would “lay down the law,” so to speak — give an outline for the future of Osho sannyas, or speak forth from the bully pulpit in any way whatsoever. She’s too cute.
I bought ‘her’ book from Dhanyam at Viha a few years back and read it. Her chapter blasting Ecky Tolle was merciless, and that’s an understatement. I told Dhanyam at the time that it sounded like a roar from Osho himself. The main point was the title of the book “The Power of Now” — MD said she didn’t need to read the book, the title was enough to show that the writer was an idiot — there is no “power” in things spiritual. Pure Osho.
It’s possible this article, her website, and her book are all ghost-written by someone, or even by a collective propaganda group of writers.
Barack Obama doesn’t write his speeches, he just reads them. JFK did not write the book that had his name on it — “Profiles in Courage” — someone else did, but that fact didn’t surface publicly for decades.
It is now said that Chairman Mao did not write any of “The Little Red Book”, disseminated to the entire Chinese populace during the Cutural Revolution (’66-’76). First it was said that his second wife, Jiang Qing, wrote most of it. Most likely this is also a secondary charade — it was probably written by Chinese propogandists, whose skill was writing such things. It had to be small, cheap, and formed to give the appearance of a “gospel.” Like the New Testament for Christians, or … remember “The Book of Rajneeshism” on the Ranch?
One way to test MD on her credibility would be to have multiple videos, like YouTube, of her talking, answering questions, giving her views on all these subjects that she supposedly is dealing with. So far, there is none.
So, unless something is shown to prove me wrong, I will say she is a poster girl for Osho org propagandists, who want to disseminate the views that she puts forth in her media pieces.
Very attractive though, I must admit.
Also, remember that Osho himself was not averse to pulling public relations events(stunts) and creating controlled images if he saw fit to do so…
Those shots of him at the Mt. Abu camps that he ran in the early days — photos and film shot from a low angle making him look like a giant God, with massive upper body, arms upraised, with the sky exploding behind him — hey, Cecil B. DeMile would have been proud of those images, like a Moses come back to the people with the tablets. Remember the dyed hair, pure black– what was that all about? Good thing he didn’t put on a toupee…!
Which brings me to Elvis, another King of sorts…now, don’t get all shook up, but…
Elvis dyed his hair black too — his natural hair color was blondish-brown. Image. Propaganda. They (his ‘creators’) wanted someone tall, dark, and handsome to project that certain image. To bring Black music into mainstream America, which was later picked up by the British rockers and refined again…. An art? A deception? A good idea? You make the call…
somehow .. its nice to have freshness in the form of Mahadevi .. even though we all know that niceties dont last nor does freshness … for that matter nothing does
Bob,
you can meet Mahadevi in Goa, and see that the pic is her for yourself. She is there at the moment.
Go to the Osho Centre there, she gives satsang sometimes I believe.
She has a caretaker called Micheal (Vadem?), an old sannyasin, He’s German. He could have certainly written some of this with Mahadevi, she obviously respects his opinions, maybe too much!
Perhaps enlightenment cannot guarantee wisdom… I even thought that about Osho! Certainly not too much in this article resonates.
Also cant see why the subject would interest an enlightened person. If people like Somendra, Maitreya and Tyohar can simply leave India for good, and set up their own seemingly healthy communes elsewhere in the world, then may be that is where sannyas now is.
I think the Indians are interested in Mahadevi because she is Anglo or dutch-Indian from a very rich background.
Maybe one day she will leave her protected world and find the wisdom of the Mumbei slums, reemerge and then really have something to say.
Osho Bob,
I don’t think much forethought with a agenda went into the image making in that old black & white film footage of Osho. Much of it was filmed by HariDeva on his hand held super8 movie camera. Check out the credits (if still given) on the RisingMoon video. It was more of a home movie travel adventure as experience by a young kid in India… and later shared with the commune PR crew.
Once years ago HD told me he had a bunch of old 8mm film of Osho in a box under his bed. I hope he can do something with it someday.
krantilove,
Even saying “garimo may not like…” is not something you can know. It’s still speculation and a projection. I’m thinking it’d be more accurate if it was worded something like “I image garimo will not…” or “I’m guessing garimo will not…” . That way the statement will remain about you, your mind and what you can know, and not about me, my mind, and what you can not know.
all’s well
-g
ok heraclitus and garimo, i’ll back off and give you both the benefit of the doubt here — mahadevi is a real sannyasin who gives satsang, and the Mt. Abu shots just happened to come out looking a bit overdramatic…ok, I’ll go for that…
but i wa
sorry, i got cut off there in that last post…
but i want to focus on elvis and osho again, a lot of similarities there if you look closer…
both had rather spoiled, sheltered childhoods — didn’t play with other kids; oldest child and male.
Osho was about 4 years older than Elvis(b.1935), but 1953 was the big year for both. Osho gets enlightened in middle India, and Elvis, half-way around the world cuts his first acetate recording at Sun records in mid-America.
Both become public attractions, performing before large crowds, iconoclastic and irreverent to cultural mores. Elvis exudes sexuality with his hip rotations, and Osho is laying down From Sex to Superconsciousness in discourse and telling raunchy sex jokes. The societies are shocked.
Both dye their hair jet-black, and have young people flocking to their events. Personal charisma and magnetism play major factors in their appeal.
Both pull back from large public audiences — Elvis stops touring, just does studio recordings. Osho talks to only small groups of people in Rajneeshpuram and World Tour.
Both make comebacks in a more luxurious setting — Elvis goes to Vegas and wears glitzsy sequined outfits with rhinestones all over the place, and Osho hits the green marble podium pagoda with a new winged robe outfit for each discourse. Captured on film.
Health declines for both, personal doctors prescribing drugs on a daily basis. Elvis stumbles onstage, lyrics slurred and unintelligable. Sannyasins say the same occured for Osho in the last months. Both die alone of heart failure as the stated cause, though many implicate heavy drug use in the equation.
Elvis’ grave at Graceland is visited by throngs of worshiping followers, and Osho has the same happen at his Samadhi in Pune.
Many “Elvis sightings” are reported to insinuate that he didn’t die after all, and Osho has the “never born, never died” epitat put up at his final resting place.
Maybe it is, that humanity has a desire for these dramas to happen — it is ingrained in our collective unconscious. We want and need these people, and then they are produced to fulfill that need. The Jesus story seems similar too. Crucified by his culture, but he doesn’t die, he resurrects…Jesus sightings, and all the rest….
Re:mahadevi’s post…
Never read it…
Never tried
Did I miss, ma?
Garimo, the Rising Moon footage had nothing to do with Hari Deva. It was all filmed on 16mm. Hari Deva always talked about his 8mm footage, but never came up with the goods, probably too late now.
Osho Bob… Never said or thought it wasn’t dramatic… I just think sometimes things are dramatic without it being planned out in advance.
>Garimo, the Rising Moon footage had nothing to do with Hari Deva
Anand,
I don’t have a VCR hooked up at the moment so I can’t check the credits at the end… but my limited memory tells me thats where I saw credit given to hari deva (for something)
Perhaps it’s was elsewhere? I can’t provide any needed evidence in this moment. So I’ll bow to your informative wisdom.
As long as we have got Anand and garimo here, who both seem to have some first-hand knowledge of the Pune 1 era, I have a question for you that has always bewildered me…
Why weren’t all of Osho’s discourses from the beginning of Pune 1(1974) to the end in spring of 1981 videotaped? English and Hindi. Although they were all audiotaped, it was only at the end, beginning about 1980, that some sporadic discourses were filmed.
It seems like a big boo-boo to me. The cost couldn’t have been much of a factor, it would seem. And the camera technology was surely available. Just appears to be a major error in judgement.
Any one know anything about this subject, which is no small matter. And the Darshan Diaries too. Any one have any info on those, why they weren’t filmed?
Maybe videotaping was not available in the mid ’70′s, but standard film cameras were — not too expensive, and could be run by any intelligent amateur with a little experience in that area.
I can see maybe where the sessions that were to become the Darshan Diaries might be more of a problem — the camera might freeze-up the person sitting with Osho, and affect the intimacy of the situation — but the main discourses surely could have been easily filmed.
Sorry, I don’t know what those damn hippies were thinking. I wasn’t really around then.
Was just a new sannyasin in ’81, at 25-26 years old. I was all ga ga, bliss ninny, willing and gullible, even more clueless than now… but in a much different way.
I am a bit uncomfortable to hear that Osho managed all those photo shoots.. Hope it was not the case..
That Mahadevi comment about Eckhart .. I dont agree with you Oshobob on that comparision.. Espeially when you categorize that as Pure Osho stuff and all..
When Osho had a comment about someone there was lot of depth in it..Either it was meant to HIT someone on the forhead or it was something very informative based on his extensive knowledge and wisdom..
So someone like Mahadevi calling ET as an idiot just by seeing the book title is foolish.. I have read the book and i listen to ET all the time.. He comes across as a genuine teacher who has reached a depth in silence.. Personally when i listen to hm i effortlessly move into deep silence.. And the word ‘ power ‘ is how he chose to describe the depth of present moment.. It is just a choice of word.. and I dont think she can judge ET from that word alone.. unless she did that as a purely stupid marketing stunt . It is very much possible going by the above article with an intention to collect large numebr of diciples.. She SEEMS to be doing what exacty what Rajnessh is doing albeit with a feminine touch
You are tough Garimo.. Show some mercy..
Whether Pune2 twenty years ago was called an ashram, a commune, or a resort, makes know difference. It was for a brief time a functional system representative of all the merry Osho factions. It is now a dysfunctional system representative of one faction. You may like to call it a deceptive attempt to represent individuals not apparently interconnected with each other. In other words it actually represents individuals disconnected from everyone else and themselves. In the face of this to emphasise the sense of community simply seeks to restore the needed balance.
When some people speak of the sannyas community, others speak of individual sannyasins. Whether the emphasis is on the individual or the community does not change the reality of things. We are all alone yet we are all part of the crowd. If a community is strengthened, the individual becomes stronger. If individuals are strengthened, the community becomes stronger.
Contrary to popular opinion, in Mahadevi’s article she did not seek money for herself, nor seek to make herself queen of the castle.
You would not be here writing if sanyas was not collective. We are not separate, we are one and all connected.
However, Mahadevi is right, it is ”a long horrible winter for sanyas”.
At the moment nobody is willing to do anything that is not directly benefitting him or her. If you try to get people to meditate normal Osho meditations nobody comes. But, instead if you would for example call it a Kundalini meditation Intensive – meditation therapist training for 3 months for 3.000,-, you might get 30 new people to participate.
Or if you have an attractive enlightened person, then you get people to participate. So, these people write the books and offer satsangs. And we are the customers.
So, we are exactly where we deserve to be.
And why are you criticizing Pune Resort? You get a luxury resort where meditation son going programme almost 24/7 different things for 10,- per day. They make an effort to keep it going. Nobody else is doing anything collective (but the people or places who are also making money on sanyas).
So, we are exactly where we deserve to be; we are customers for therapy and meditation waiting for somebody new to save us.
Some more things…
“Contrary to popular opinion, in Mahadevi’s article she did not seek money for herself,”
Yes, she is seeking moneys: she is selling her book. And looking for funding for her new place.
“nor seek to make herself queen of the castle.”
Really, what else is giving satsangs?
anybody got a toenail clipping of osho they used to give out in late 70′s in a tiny box to feel his energy?
He’d recommend sometimes to stick it on your head and meditate.
Those orthodox jews do the same with those lovely little torah boxes strapped round their nonces.
Dont’cha love organised religions, make ya feel so cozy inside?
‘The holy shoe.’…….”no follow the gourd”…’its the feet …we must all be bare footed ’tis surely a sign….
I remember incarnating once, amazing event…haven’t got any film footage though….
Mahadevi i want to save the world….can we start with Southend…i’ve written to the council about the mess in the town centre…shocking..
His blessings
Bob,
How do you know Osho’s hair was dyed black at Mt Abu? He was under 40 then. Could easily have had black hair.
I saw my first home video machine (for television) in London in 79 or 80. So I guess they were not available in India then. I expect most of Pune 1 was unfilmed because most sannyasins were too poor to have a movie camera; there just happened to be no one around with the technology. Things were moving very fast and most sannyasins were just living their own, difficult, lives without thinking of the future.
I guess Darshan diaries were never filmed, or as far as I know taped, because they were too personal; it would have been an invasion of privacy. Pity in a way because they would have been wonderful to watch.
NB I suppose Darshan diaries must have been taped in order to turn them into books.
Maybe Darshan diary tapes were not released becuase there were too may pauses, laughter, ums and ahs etc. It would be interesting to know why.
Osho Bob, video material was available at the end of the seventies and there was some video filming going on. Remember though that the technology was really in its infants. There was 16 mm technology available, but we cannot imagine, how primitive these years were in Pune, now that everybody has an Iphone. There was a German film crew doing a movie in the seventies and that famous movie is still around (The Ashram in Pune). Also you must know that India was very closed for imports at that time, it was hard to get any kind of equipment into India. That was still even a problem in Pune 2, when the all the super beta tapes were smuggled into India by sannyasins from Germany. That was when Niskriya started his 3d filming experiment from Berlin.
And it was a major adventure to get the Sony betacam equipment into the ashram in Pune 2.
Garimo, the Rising Moon footage came from the Osho Zurich archive and was on 16mm. No credits were given to Hari Deva. HD wanted to make some money out of his footage from the seventies, when I talked to him at the end of 1989, so his project never took off. I wonder what happened to the footage. It probably is all sticky now. When you watch the German footage of ‘The Ashram in Pune’ it is probably all for the better. The seventies in Pune 1 was really quite a wild and freaky time…..great we all made it.
I was round the London sannyasins in the 70s, and it was very wild and freaky. One of the reasons I never went to Pune 1 was because I knew it was going to be too wild and freaky for me. It is difficult to underestimate the craziness of those times. You heard of people dying quite unnecessarily in Pune of disease. Too poor and crazy for me.
Should be :
“It would be difficult to overestimate the craziness of those times.” I am hopeless today
Anand, well ok, I can see that there were problems with importing things into India (i just saw an interview with Deuter done this year–YouTube?, Ma Waduda from New Earth Records, her website?– where he talks about making the music tracks for the Osho Active meditations, and how his recording equipment from Germany was sitting in an Indian customs warehouse for over a year, under lock, so he had to make do with local Pune equipment, whatever was available…)….and I’m not talking about sannyasins individually taking the responsibility to set some filming up. I mean Osho himself, and the people under him — for example, the system that was used to record every discourse on audio tape. That was a planned and deliberately produced set of tapes, by Osho, to produce the books, and to record his talks for posterity — obviously one of his main agendas, seen retrospectively…
I’m sure a 16mm camera could have been acquired inside India, set up easily (the conditions were ideal — same place, same time, same lighting, same audience, same podium, same distance to chair, same time,1 1/2 hrs. of discourse, etc.)
If ma mukta had the money to plunk down to buy the ashram property, i’m sure she had a few hundred bucks to buy a camera and film in India to put her master’s discourses on film for a permanent record in history. You know, there are films of Mahatma Gandhi walking around in his diapers in the 1940′s. Of Maharishi Raman in south India. There were surely cameras and film in India in the 1970′s, if you put a bit of effort into getting them.
Even if it was not totally professional to the T, some attempt could easily have been made, under Osho’s command. Just seems odd, knowing of Osho’s focus on his discourses as major meditations in themselves, and his insistence in years to come on using every media means available to disseminate his words. All those audio tapes were not just some sannyasin hippie turning on his $15. tape recorder that he picked up somewhere. They were a concerted effort made to record every discourse, by Osho’s team, to the best of their ability, with the best equipment they could get.
I don’t think the whole story is in. Even those dental session tapes that Osho supposedly told Devageet to destroy….well, maybe he never destroyed them, they may surface someday, who knows…according to the Osho in UK website this month, Devageet has 3 books in the editing stage, with a publishing date supposedly this year….maybe we’ll find out more about those nitrous sessions in those books…
Osho Bob, it was a whirlwind operation for all of us to make things happening.
We managed the audio, Deuter managed the meditation music, we managed a lot of books, we managed to fix broken tea cups, stay sane under the drama of Deeksha, did a lot of meditations, went to morning discourses and evening darshans, were riding an incredible high energy wave coming from direct transmissions from Osho….uupps, we forgot to smuggle video and 16mm film equipment in. Check out, how long a 16 mm reel lasts, we barely managed the sound recordings! Oh yes I forgot we also started to provide space for the beginning of the human growth movements, worked in the gardens and as guards, partied a lot of course, took of some time for tantric sex….unfortunately we were living so much in the NOW, that we forgot about the folks interested in Osho after the year 2000. But I can tell you we had a great ride, a great experience and Osho filled us up!
Sorry John that you did not join, it was the best time of our life!
Now Bob I know for sure, that the dental sessions will be published in the right way, though the right channel, at the right time…. It is nice, that still now some unpublished material and reports are coming to light.
Anand, thanks for that personal mini-history of Pune 1.
I hope all that partying and tantra sex didn’t take too harsh of a toll on y’all…! Mmmmm, the rigors of spiritual evolution are not for the faint of heart, it seems….
No films — looks like it’s water under the bridge.
Alas.
In my mind, a major, major Crime Against Humanity.
Alok John, on the hair-dying thing with Osho…
It just looks like it, you know. Pure jet-black hair and beard, and then a year later, uh….graying all over. Just looks like it. Also, I remember reading a first hand account somewhere years ago (i can’t recollect where) of someone documenting these hair-dying sessions — i think it was Ma Laxmi and a few others involved. It was humorously retelling the messy sessions involved. Maybe it was even in Laxmi’s book she never finished, Journey of the Heart, now available to read on Oshoworld.com, I believe. Or someone else who was involved.
Nowadays, the new thing for the eldering sannyasin guys who feel uneasy about their balding or graying heads is to go for the “Zen look” — cueball style. Takes care of both the gray problem, and the landing strip top bald patch, while giving the appearance of a Zen adept.
Perfect solution. But still they will die all the same, just like the rest….
For the eldering sannyasin girls, balding is not a problem, but gray hair is such a major trouble for most of these ladies, that they go for the “blonding” solution.
Even dark haired ma’s will dye their hair blonde, that covers the gray easier — some gray hairs against a blonde background is camoflaged easier than against a brown or black backdrop. But, just like the swa’s, they will all die just the same, it will make no difference….
Alas.
Osho Bob…..since you are that interested: try to get hands on a copy from ‘The Ashram in Pune’ filmed in the 70ties by a German Film Crew. They had access to the famous Encounter Groups of Teertha and once you see that footage, you might understand that Osho was probably not that interested in too much footage from that time. It was all raw, rough and truthful. And these were the 70ties, so all footage from the 70ties looks weird.
Once we got some money and got ourselves a bit more organized, the first Osho talks were filmed with some kind of video equipment probably in ’79 or ’80. No full discourse could be recorded as far as I recall due to the short length of the tapes at that time. I have a complete video archive, but It would take me some time to identify these recordings exactly.
For older footage check out the ‘Rising Moon’. This is made from footage from the 60ties.
And maybe Osho wanted more video footage and therefore it was good to move to the USA.
Anand, I have that Rising Moon video of Osho’s early days, and have viewed it a number of times. Not only are there clips from the the Mt. Abu meditation camps when Osho was living in Bombay, but also the car trip to the Pune Ashram in 1974, with Osho’s car festooned with flowers, and Ma Mukta showing him around the place once they arrived. At least that shows that someone had a camera and film in 1974. Color too. No need to smuggle these things in.
The 70′s movie from the Germans was marketed under the title “Ashram” , I believe, in the States anyway. I have seen parts of it, the Encounter Group clips. Standard fare for anyone that had experienced similar stuff, as I did in the mid-70′s in the US. Though it was deemed as negative to the Ashram, and was demeaned under the guise that the producers used hidden cameras in the group rooms, this line was later altered by the Pune Ashram, changing to the slant that the encounter groups were “staged” for the film crew.
My view is that the film crew was most likely an in-house sannyasin crew, the film being made for public relation purposes — whether the reception was negative or positive in the “outside” world didn’t really matter, as was the case with most of Osho’s marketing adventures. Any news was good news for Osho. Controversial news was even better, as it created more interest.
As to this was an example why he didn’t have much concern for ’70′s films emanating from the Ashram at ths time, including his own discourses, is some very skewed and faulty logic. I mean, his discourses were in the ’70′s, and the film technology was in the 70′s, but to link the “Ashram” movie stuff with his own discourses, just by time and place association, is a whopper of a stretch.
The defense, also, of not filming Osho’s discourses from 1974-1980, because the film footage length capability was too short, is again not very convincing logic. The same problem was there for the audio tape recordings. Solution — have 2 machines. When one nears the point of running out of tape or film, turn on the second machine, and then spice the two later in the tape production room. Elementary, my dear Watson. Was done for most of the audio tapes, and could have been done for the videos too. Not a good excuse, as far as I can see, for not capturing these once in a lifetime moments for humanity — including for the people that were there, but drifting off into dreams, fantasies, uncounsiousness, or just plain-old sleep! Not uncommon, I’m sure.
Nothing can be done now about it — that’s the way the cookie crumbles, I guess…
I guess whatever the reasons or realities, nothing can be done about it. Personally for me works best the MP3 audio files available now, just to disappear into the gaps…into silence.
I’d love to see Ashram, or Ashram in Pune. Anyone know where I can buy the DVD?
Bob, Anand is right about the whirlwind atmoshphere in Pune 1. Osho was constantly saying, “Live in the now, don’t think of tomorrow” and most people lived it.
I think this article is taken from Mahadevi’s book published few years ago. Or it is written specially for now?
I am India for family reasons and in every city one can encounter the posters of some new guru in the booming market of India. It looks osho is used as a foundation material for their super malls.
Yesterday, on one national highway, thousands of cars spread in Miles were creating Havoc for the traffic as some guru wanted to make millions of masses free from misery in an instant, and His banners, If i join the rat race, for sure, i wish my banners with pin up girls, so that people suffering in traffic and pollution can have some relief in their eyes.
Indian gurus on one side and resort’s non guru managers on another side…. I wish Mahadevi should do something….She has a catchy photo… this is enough to shake the shity market ofworld spiritualty.
Oshobob
” knowing of Osho’s focus on his discourses as major meditations in themselves… ”
Did Osho empasize during early days that he talks in unique way to give us a taste of silence or it was later years he adopted that as a device? I am asking this because in the early days talks were different ..not with long pauses and stillness etc.. In the later year vedeo tapes i become amazed how still he becomes in the middle of the talk as though it was a still picture only to see Him moving the hand..
Bob,
Osho often said things in Pune 1 such as, (this is not an exact quote) “Drink of the Master’s wine when he is alive. When I am gone there will just be a dead religion. You are lucky to be here. So drink of my wine.”
I met once a German guy Malik (I think) he has many videos which he only shows for money and does not distribute them. He must be from the German crew. Alok, he came to London a few years back and maybe is coming again?
Anand, suppose it is ok that “ unfortunately you were living so much in the NOW, that you forgot about the folks interested in Osho after the year 2000”. Osho has found other ways to inspire us, including old sannyasins themselves! Are you lucky beasts!
I can totally agree with Fresch actually and would like to thank him for his comments. Somewhere it clicked for me from your writings.
Malik lives in Berlin and has a great collection of Osho videos, which he shows in Osho film festivals in Europe. I remember when the German film crew came in the seventies with a bus from somewhere, they were not part of the Ashram team at that time.
When I came to Pune in 1975, there were not even photos being made from the Initiation darshans on the back porch of Lao Tzu house and no recordings were being done of the darshans either. It just took all some time to get organized. Most of the Western people coming to Osho were hippies traveling already through India and some people coming from London and Berlin etc. In my memory it was not before 1978 before so called ‘normal’ people showed up in larger numbers in Koregaon Park. The seventies in Pune were so strange, that is is hard to even imagine looking backwards.
Even in Pune 2 it took enormous effort by the Cologne sannyas team to bring in enough Sony tapes smuggled through Bombay customs to record all of Osho discourses. The actual video equipment used in Buddhahall was smuggled into India through a private plane by a sannyasin, so even at that time 1987-1990 India was so closed, that it was nearly a miracle to have all the video recordings we enjoy now.
Remember that al of our luggage always got x-rayed at arrival at Bombay airport?
Chetna,
Malik did an Osho film show in London a few years ago. But he did not show Ashram in Pune. He has a nice site
http://www.swami.de/index_e.htm
No doubt his children or grandchildren will become millionaires from the archive!
Apparently Ashram in Pune was on general release in German cinemas in the 70s. And shown in New York, review here http://movies.nytimes.com/movie/review?res=9D01E2D81038F930A25752C1A967948260
I have a beautiful rare tarot deck from Pune 1 called “The Goose is Out” which I suspect is worth something now.
Anand
Not sure whether Oshobob saw my post.. can you tell me something about Osho using his speeches as a meditation device. Did he mention specifically in the early years on this aspect.. ? I am eager to hear although i am aware that generally the eenlightened beings give you taste of silence by all of their acts.. But Osho specifically talked about the way he speaks ..Thats why i am asking..
Kranti,
Here’s a very short, 2 minute video of Osho explaining his talks as meditations — at Satrakshita’s fine website of things Osho…
“Why I Am Talking — A Reminder”
http://www.satrakshita.com/lectures.htm
Although Osho talked faster in the earlier days and slower in the later days, his strategy of “sound & silence” is essentially the same.
If look at a page here at sannyasnews, and take all the black letters, and in your mind push them into the upper left hand corner of the page — you will see, that you have got a black box that takes up maybe 2% of the page. The rest of the empty page is blank white, 98%. That is the space between the words. This reality surrounds us all day, but we are rarely aware of it.
Did you know that, even though your chemisty textbooks show the diagram of an atom with the electrons spinning around the nucleus of the atom maybe only an inch away, in reality, say the scientists that study these things…if the nucleus of the atom is the size of a corn kernel, as in the testbook pictures, the first electron ring would be 2 blocks away! Between them is all “empty space” — the scientists don’t really know what it is, it is a mystery…
Thanks Oshobob.. Yes It is amazing .. Everything happens in silence and space including us.. I was curious whether he spacifically spoke about this earlier..
The other day i was listening to Adyashanthi on this VOID beyond Conciousness which is beyond what is experienced thru senses.. He was talking about how to route back everything to its source and establish oneself in conciousness first and the the Void itself..
I am also interested in this Gradual Vs Suddent enlightenment school
That reminds me Oshobob.. I asked you about the state of Zen in China now.. Can you share something?
I do love to hear from the old times like Pune1 or Ranch when I was not there directly from people who lived it. I would also love it if more ordinary sanyasins would write their experiences and memories and not just read official history published by Resort (the horrible word “Resort) to support Osho’s vision. Also, I would love to hear more about failing of the dreams etc…you know, to be more REAL. Actually, originally I came in contact with Osho reading the book ”God that failed”, and started to look for more information. So, I also love to read your experiences here from the crazy times. By the way, I am sure everything is taped in Pune1, but they just do not show it because it just looks too wild. For instance if you filmed Dynamic even today it would look really wired on TV (excluding the fanny music video of this German singer, still great she did it).
Also, there should be space for people appreciating old stories, songs and places…But, it is not being here and now, and I do not believe living in nostalgia, sorry. We have to understand that too, not to live in the past. That’s why I fully support the Resorts efforts not to stay stagnant, not to keep Osho’s pictures for worshipping, he is not GOD, the Father of Fathers or some Hindu or Sufi guru. I have a friend who is crazy about an other guru, totally surrendering and having incredible guru trip going…so many similarities to sanyas’ old way I must say…and I am glad we are not there… because from there is still so long way to grow up, really.
Still, I love it that I have left everything for saynyas at very young age, was totally spaced out in Pune when Osho left his body, lived Pune2…so, like you gays, I would not change my place living Pune1 or these people coming to Osho now…everybody comes at right time for him or her.
But I do HATE and feel ASHAMED being a customer. Like so many others, I am longing just to hang out with other sanyasins, share, live life…and I do NOT mean to live in a therapy group, pay for living in the commune, get a career as a therapist, do odd jobs in places where sanyasins are living. .(However, my best friends are sanyasins, I did spent some time in Pune at New Year, and I do meet people everywhere, organize some stuff etc…all this and trying to live normal life of keeping the job and outside friends too.).But it is not enough. I am not satisfied, I am undernourished, I do not want to dye of boredom or get cynical, and I do not want to start to sit under the tree I want more, more…
I have done some other meditations ”outside”and guess what, not many sanyasins would PAY (in Osho’s places) for the satsangs and meditations that they participate outside or even listen same stuff from their friends for free:DDD. For example I do not think Mahavevi would get people to her group in Resort, it’s sounds even hilarious, ”but if she is enlightened…” and in Goa…it’s different story.
Osho is soooo difficult, nothing is meditation for him and his meditations are difficult, so demanding. I hate it that I do not have a choice any more. So, I need other sanyasins on my path. I know you need it too. I just do not know how are we going to go forward. How to share. So, we are living this long horrible winter being customers. Shame on us.
You poured your heart Fresch..Keep going
There is this Invitation in facebook..thought of sharing
OSHO: LIVE FACEBOOK EVENT (Announcement)
http://www.youtube.com
LIVE FACEBOOK EVENT On Facebook, on the OSHO Fan Page: http://bit.ly/4BC4gK Wednesday 27th January 2010, 5:30pm GMT, 12:30pm EST, 11:00pm IST ONE ON ONE WITH OSHO
To be short and clear Pune Resort, Miasto, Humaniversity and Path of Love are acting like companies because I am acting like a customer. We, as a collective are acting as a customers. Or some guru-seeking-save me- I will be your care taker- Tyhor/Matreya/Mahadevi/Veeresh-best friend etc pls save me and let me play this game again-child-stuped-idiot.
Now, back to this Pune 1 story, of drinking the wine, being in the now, whirlwinds, and all that…
In the midst of all this drinking wine in the middle of a whirlwind, there were many practical things getting done by many people — e.g., every discourse was audiotaped. Every one! In the middle of the whirlwind! While drinking the wine! And being in the now!
Someone made Osho’s clothes. Someone laundered them. Someone cooked his food. Someone cooked the food for the hereandnow winedrinkers. Some transcribed his tapes into written words. Some edited those words into books. Some carpenters built things, some plumbers plumbed things, some guards guarded things.
So, Alok John, yes, Osho wanted his people to drink of him in the moment, but he also wanted to get his discourses recorded and disseminated to the world. Big time project, top priority for The Man, and still going on full steam to this very day — in fact, more now than ever….The Master Plan….!
It used to be that Osho’s discourses were described as “spontaneous talks” given….
Now, there has been a shift to “extemporaneous talks” as the defining phrase. A bit more accurate description.
Those talks were more ‘planned’ than many realize. A spontaneous talk is when you bump into someone on the street and start chatting. Or when someone asks you a question out of the blue and you answer off the cuff.
With the sutras, questions, jokes, and various other predetermined exerpts on his clipboard, Osho spoke his talks like an Action Painter would paint a painting. Kind of a “pre-planned spontaneity”.
And that movie, “Ashram”, Alok, I don’t know where you can get it, I don’t think it’s online, I haven’t seen it anywhere. Let me know if you find it somewhere. So, Anand, then did those German filmakers become sannyasins in the end?
Fresch wrote : “Osho is soooo difficult, nothing is meditation for him and his meditations are difficult, so demanding. I hate it that I do not have a choice any more.”
I agree. I think his meditations are demanding. I think people won’t do them unless they really have to. I am one of the ones who did not have a choice either. If things were going well you would do something a bit lighter, wouldn’t you.
Well, OIF is hosting a One on One Facebook event on Wednesday. Thanks for that Kranti. I wonder if you have to become a “friend” of OIF/Facebook to take part. You guys gonna be there? London, 5:30pm. You can post live comments — maybe they are taking a cue from Sannyasnews success…Looks like from the promo video, they will show a video clip from Rajneeshpuram, from The Last Testament series with the World Press. Now, those talks may be the most spontaneous responses in the Osho’s legacy — there is some sort of French word for that, but I forget it, ….Sarlo knows it….the “resevoir” of a man’s artistic output…
And did everyone see the Osho Rajneesh “Banned” –Tears of the Mystic Rose ad on the homepage of Sannyasnews today? The plot thickens…..
I am not sure what “If things were going well you would do something a bit lighter, wouldn’t you” means for you. Would you like to share Alok john?
For me things are going too light… but it is contradictionary. I am “ok” with normal things like enough friends, money, career, boring long enough (ex) relationships (that I can call my self not crazy), meditating regularly, falling in love (recently, not any more) etc. But it is NOT enough. Not enough at all. I am not living my potential. Unfortunately I do not have way back – or possibility to do lighter things – because they feel so shallow and ridiculous compared all experiences I have with Osho meditations or whatever sanyas life is.
However, I do NOT relax, my mind does not stop for a nanosecond…nor do I get (understand) anything, how ever or intensively I was doing Osho’s meditations. And this is Osho’s fault because nothing is “meditation” for him. Things are “unbearably light”, in the other words painful most of the time. And this is the case for many of us. For whom “things are not so light”.
For many years I was not interested in silence at all, but emotional release, body, especially creativity etc. because I did not trust my silence (silence which of course is not there in Osho way). And i do resent that. Not bothering to pratice it.
I am definitely not interested in some facebook happening that OIF is hosting. I do have some limits. It is not exactly my dream of hanging out with sanyasins:DDD. Do you know that Pune Resort has this evening “Why is Evening meditation important…” Like we would be retarded. Or are they retarded? Or are we retarded?
Where is our pride in silence? People who are doing other meditations or going for satsangs are calling meditation something that is not remotely NEAR what Osho is talking about. Why does it has to be sooooo difficult and demanding with SILENCE? Why cannot it be less awakeful, more ordinary…Well, what ever.
You are sweet people here.., Mahadevi or her ghostwriter too. Well, here we are right now. Thank you for sharing this with me.
Fresch, you definitely have a unique set of viewpoints there, though a bit murky, at bit enigmatic at times, I must say…
It seems you may be a merger of Fresh and French in some new mixture…
Just to correct Shantam this article is original and not taken from her book, “From Fear to Enlightenment” (which is available through Viha Connection).
On Mahadevi’s website there is an earlier article which is more conservative from a couple of years ago, and which actually is rather different from this one.
In her emails to us before sending us the article Mahadevi indicated that this article was timed at the 20 year watershed from Osho’s death.
It seems to me Fresch is the Fresh that Fresch is looking for. It seems to me that Fresch is the Fresh that we are all looking for.
The idea expressed in this thread of Pune 1 hippie sannyasins living in the now and not for tomorrow expresses the same deep misunderstanding that has condemned Osho until now, and into the future. The sort of antics that went on are considered revolutionary. The same sort of antics were carried out when the first primitive men met the first primitive women. It is a regression not transcendence. Wow, what revolutionary ideas….yelling at each other or engaging in rigorous sexual exercises.
Living in the now does not mean to shut off the future because of hedonistic desires. This is a denial of the mundane reality that includes time and space. If you deny mundane reality you have no chance of finding any higher reality. If you think you have found the ultimate reality this way then you are lost in your own deceptive thinking.
One can think about the future whilst remaining grounded in the present. All sane people do this. Insane people fabricate future fantasies based on habitual thought patterns formed in times gone past. The other type of insanity is to live under the false pretension that one is in the present moment, whilst ignoring future possibilities. Ironically, to do this effectively, you need to be grossly unconscious. You also need strong will power and extreme insensitivity (to others and yourself) in order to shut of possible consequences of your self-indulgent and close-minded actions.
I have heard how when Vivek (Nirvanno) first came to Pune she was shocked at all the goings on. Osho told her just to ignore them all.
Fresch, you seem to be asking weird questions about Osho. Do you think Osho Active meditations are revolutionary? There is nothing at all revolutionary about active meditation. In all the authentic religions of the world the ‘active’ aspect of the path is shared covertly, for two important reasons. Firstly it is that many people who do not need active meditation may engage in it unnecessarily. Many people who do Osho Dynamic meditation, and hurt themselves physically, fall into this category. If dynamic energy is present, then it becomes natural to express it in creative physical expression. If dynamic energy is not present, then people will use their minds to force their bodies to do difficult physical exercise. The body has no natural sense of how to express the energy in a safe way – because there is no energy there to express. In this way people unnecessarily hurt themselves.
The second reason for secrecy is that cathartic expression of the madness that lies hidden within us all may seem like anarchy coming forth to overwhelm our civilised society. This was the fear that saw Osho condemned by the world. (As I said above, civilised society had grounds for their view). In fact, to allow catharsis as an outpouring of deeply rooted consciousness is a natural process. However, to force it on people (in a group with an uneducated leader for example) will only unnecessarily dredge up pain that they may not be able to deal with. An example of this would be a person committing suicide after a therapy group.
Catharsis that is hypocrisy is the same as the hypocritical idea of living in the now and forgetting about tomorrow. It creates a split in people: on one side is fantasy and unconscious mind; on the other side is reality and consciousness.
I remember in a vipassana retreat there was a man who took to marching up and down a track in the forest, with heavy bricks in each hand. When he came out of the forest to sit in vipassana he seemed the usual slow methodical vipassana meditator. After the retreat I asked him about his secretive and arduous exercise routine. He said that on a previous Zen retreat, the Master had told him that when his energy really moves and he can no longer sit silently, to stop sitting, pick up some heavy objects, and start stomping around. Almost as amusing as this was to find out that this person was a Christian priest.
There is nothing new about sitting silently. There is also nothing new about Osho Active Meditations, even if they are trademarked.
People naturally know when it is a good time to sit silently, and when it is a good time to go to the gym, go for a jog, or dig a ditch. Sometimes the coercion of the confines of so called civilised society can cause people to go against nature. This is what Osho spoke against his whole life. The trouble is, if you try and institutionalise active meditation and silent sitting rather than the rules of civil society, you end up with a different kind of insanity. Rather than being repressed, and then releasing that in a fit of rage, people will express a cathartic rage that is a fiction, and then they will sit down and silently go nuts.
Yahoo
Abhay
One more thing that is so boring with these satsang givers or star therapists is that there is never any dialogue. You ask a question and they answer. Or they give some lecture like mahadevi here, but they never come down to discuss it. You end up asking something for NOT falling asleep out of boredom.
I remember that before starting giving satsangs Osho was debating for years with different people around in India. These people are on the top of the world from the beginning. Or this attitude of companies like Resort, Miasto, Path of Love, Humaniversity – sub cults: do your training-act as we-give your money –go back get some more for us-you do not have a life without us-we know better-out of here and actually you never existed.
Also, you tube is great place to check out superficial gurus/therapists. I am not saying any names here, but most of the stuff these people say is just ridiculously childish and self evident…(osho said it long before and much more -stuff). But, if you succeed to collect stupid enough people around you, put your self sitting on the pedestrian with the microphone, you get enough guru-star-aura around you. And yess, of course I do NOT know it all, you could get more profound insights (than mine) from taxi driver. And nobody forces me to go to listen to these people or participate 30 years-same-strcture-stuped therapy-groups. And most of sanyasins do not do it either…they go to some other guru or settle down with few friends, lover and comfortable life. At least sort of.
Like Alok John said, we are not meditating if we do not have to. Or we do it for a while when in crisis (lost a job or a lover). How boring, how NOT sanyas life.
And Prem Abaya,I do not know one person who would be actually practicing Osho meditations (there are more than dynamic…remember nadabrama, vipasana, devavani…) If somebody is doing something regularly, rest of the people say he or she must be practicing as a parrot and machine, I have been even told to stop practicing meditations, that if I am doing something alone “You are only imagining things”…So what? Not watching TV at least.
So, why more experienced sanyasins drop out, why so few people from pune1, ranch or even pune2 around? Because there is no way to participate in meaningful or graceful way. I see only meaningful way as collective way. It might be a dream, I am not sure. At the moment I am a customer or make myself to listen stupid gurus/therapist or visit the Resort for a short period only because I want to share meditation with my fellow sanyasins.
I am sure most of the people like me feel the same; ashamed and humiliated at the same time. Also, I think most of the new people are also not so guru-startherapist-seeking anymore, but more mature (than for example I was), so something NEW has to happen. We are exploited because we as individuals are not making any effort to meditate or be collective. That is old, old fashioned and childish. Like I said there will be new era after Companies and mini-gurus era. What is it? What is fresch?
Fresch
Your view points are very fresh.. and seems to be from the heart.. I really enjoyed reading
Wanted to respond to 2 points
1. On that aspect of ‘ Why is Evening meditation important… ” I almost thought of opening a new thread on this.. You really have to keep an open mind to understand why they have this program / session..It was one of the beautiful & insightful sessions i have even attended
I was stunned to hear the inside view of how Osho went about developing that evening meditation and the significance of every part.. It brings to light how Osho works.. After attending that session my approach towards meditation & evening mediation has changed for good.. I dont want to comment what exactly is said in that session..It is for every one to see directly with open heart.. Amazing insights you will get
Secondly my general opinion about meditations and silence.. Osho clearly said meditation is medicinal..there comes a point you may not have to meditate anymore.. Ofcourse one needs to honest and sincere about it
End of the day meditation is about developing the ability to stay as awareness and not getting caught up the external flow events and identity..
Few posts earlier i mentioned listening to Adyashathi .. he mentioned the significance of the a Zen Master walking back from forest after enlightenment with a bag of goodiess. It is symbolic.. He says, After awakening one comes back into the world and start living that silence.. There is no change in the external .. Still the way the world and life is seen is different
I feel often we make the mistake of doing meditation with a goal or as just another thing which we do in our daily life..then boredom or usefulness comes in..
From what awakened people say it seems it is deprogramming / Disidentification process from your identity and you have to lose so much interms of Identity which we are not ready to do.. Ofcourse we can say that is a ‘ Happening ‘ in every body-mind and not a doing..
So it depends on how far / deep we really want to go..
Just add ,
One more beautiful thing i heard from Adya is when he said.. If ever he had a USP for enlightenment he will say it is ‘ Nothing ‘ , Zero , Zilch.. You will get nothing out of meditation and enlightenment ..
I also liked this sentence of yours
” Also, I think most of the new people are also not so guru-startherapist-seeking anymore, but more mature (than for example I was), so something NEW has to happen… ”
While the statement is very fresh and optimistic , trust it will not lead to someone waiting for the future and deceiving oneself and thereby missing the present moment
Fresch, again good points by you. In fact I liked your writings more than of this Mahadevi Guru Ma. You are just more real, raw and alive.
You have touched some points that I have been wondering about in the past. “So, why more experienced sanyasins drop out, why so few people from pune1, ranch or even pune2 around? Because there is no way to participate in meaningful or graceful way. I see only meaningful way as collective way.”
Collective way is sweet, BUT the responsibility to meditate lies on us individually. And grace will not come out of group, it will come out of an individual when he goes deep.
I think that people can be very nourishing, but will they make me enlightened?-No. I live with them since the day I was born and many of those people are amazing, but they cannot enter me and light my fire.
I believe it is a lonely path with fellow travellers in Osho world, but alone. When I close my eyes I am alone.
I was lucky or unlucky (whichever way you look at it) to experience moments of near death a few times in my life. And you know what I saw each time-NOTHING. A month ago the flight that I was on was crashing basically, so you have those few minutes of acknowledging THIS IS IT. And here you are with you face to face and NOTHING else. Everything becomes meaningless and the only thing I wished in that moment was to know who is dying? And I could not see it! And you cannot do anything about it-I could not see who was dying. Simoltenious thought is of a Master.
So I came out knowing for sure that in my life there is nothing apart from discovering who I am and my Master. I am still shocked that death can happen now and I am not ready, not ready at all. I know nothing about me, what I am. What is life and what is death. I know NOTHING.
So I think it is not about participation in a meaningful or graceful way, it is about each individual and their depth of spiritual QUEST. The group can inspire, but they won’t be with you at the time of death.
Of course I get bored too, but that’s getting bored of the stupid mind, that keeps producing the same garbage. You cannot get truly bored of meditation that is such a source of freshness and love, pure nectar.
Any ways, I think that Fresch’s mood, feeling and attitude will change. He asking for it so the life will supply
Fresch, when someone writes through heart, does not matter what, i always get the feeling to see that person’s face, in this way interaction becomes alive, humane.
Are you on the facebook?
It is quite boring to see all those cut and paste video links and save the fish, save the tree, save the gurus kind of champions, but to see the faces of sannyawsnews people is different, it is like family, HIS family.
Beautiful post Chetna..
Me too goig thru similar thoughts.. the only important things seems to be knowing who I am ..
I too was thinking how i am not ready if death comes..
My understaning is Boredom comes out of mind ..not out of silence.. the silence and nothingness is beyond boredom also..
” It is quite boring to see all those cut and paste video links and save the fish, save the tree, save the gurus ….. ”
Shantam is Shantam
Oh, Chetna. First when I started to read you message, I was feeling you are writing my words…and when you told about your experience I was already crying…these experiences I want to hear or share. This is why sanyas collective is so valuable; we can be such diamond treasures for each other’s. “they cannot enter me and light my fire”, you are wrong, you just did Thank you beautiful.
But, since moodiness is my other name….
Kranti, you did not get my joke with “Importance of Evening meditation” or are you doing your paid commune-worker-programme at Resort’s PR-office? I will not explain it, either you get some more years of experience or…got it?
And thank you for reminding me of staying here and now, instead of writing this, I would benefit more of this moment doing dynamic or get my self a new lover…or going to the beech for a walk. Or getting involved with my job.
But Kranti, I love your quote:” USP for enlightenment he will say it is ‘ Nothing ‘ , Zero , Zilch.. You will get nothing out of meditation and enlightenment..” thank you, I will use this. Me and my friends have similar profound, out of our enlightened experiences born wisdom: You will never change; let’s accept that for a fact of life…:)
Thank you Sanyas news for this forum, it is soooo healthy. I also want to keep my anonymity here and therefore ability to be critical (until I become pure Love for everyone and everybody) even I am not interested attacking anybody in person. However, I do not want any fanatic middle management little hitlers attacking me for some critical commentin “real life”. So no face book meetings for me. But, out of curiosity, did you get many hugs? How did feel? Ohh, I forgot, you do not hug any more in Pune. Too pornographic.
I know quoting or interpreting Osho is stupid, but I do it any way.
I have heard him saying (after ranch) that enligtment does not mean he knows other people but him self. So, Osho knows him self and has all authority to speak and guide about meditation for his sanyasins. Sanyas, as movement, is his social experiment (=my interpretation), and actually him being enlightened does not mean he knew where this “social experiment” would lead – how ever genius he might have been in every aspect, he is not an omnipotent God for all issues on earth and space.
Communist experiment never got any wings after first generation but deteriorated to a fascist regime, as we all know..and the same almost happened to sanyas as well.
But there are many family companies that have succeeded in transitions for generations. What we have is FIRST generation sanyasins in power everywhere, people in their 70’. That’s the reason all sanyas activities feel somehow old and out of date everywhere in the world, not fresh. I do not believe anything new will happen before these people take in young people ALSO. I also consider my own generation (including me) of pune2 too stuck with old ways. What I have seen happening in family companies in the same situations is that this kind of moves take years to complete in a smooth way. What I do NOT see is these ancient people giving up anything for younger generations (and for the rest of us, meditation cattle). On the contrary, these grand papas and grand mamas are even organizing parties for us, nothing spontaneous is happening. I do NOT mean to get rid off all people with valuable experience, NOT ATT ALL, but just take in some young people, so all ages are there (=here) with us. So, that in the end, could we do anything in a NEW way.
Chetna, yes, we all go alone, meditation is inwards..but this journey is too difficult and painful to go all the way alone. I am also too stupid to see my self without any feedback from you gays.
Chetna goes ” I know nothing about me, what I am. What is life and what is death. I know NOTHING”..This is the horrible pain of it, I do not either. And I am and as a collective we are lazy. We are not giving it 100%. Miserly, I can only pray I will have some of you helping me when my time will come. Or perhaps, I start saving for my last therapy session; somebody to guide me to death, for only, let’s say 3000,- …if it goes quick enough.
I am going to do the residential program Fresch.. Couldnt start this month as per plan.. I didnt get the joke.. But since i was thinking of sharing that anyway i did..
That adyashathi quote is not exact re production. I will get the link for you IF you are interested.. To me Adya along with Mooji and Et are the current hope ..
bloody hell,guys.
woe is me.
cheer up a bit.
bemoaning how ignorant and lost you are…?!
you should be at some wailing wall gnashing your teeth and saying
“oh,i hate my ego,its far too big….”
ours is not a caravan of despair…..
remember….
also when you judge yourself as “knowing nothing” you are subtly esteeming yourself as the one who knows that you know nothing.
You are stupid idiot Kranti…:) and so lovable. Now, there is no other way but for you to come up with some of your OWN experience that we can learn from or share…except for being that lovable, of course…:)
frank…give us some light…
“ours is not a caravan of despair…..”
any jokes? or non-ego-experiences…
you ask me for a light?
you sound like an aggressive beggar!
you obviously need a guru,so here…
i will paly the part
and will tell you the story of my enlightenment…..
some years ago,i was sleeping rough down on the embankment,next to the river thames with the tramps.
sudden, a huge limo pulled up.
inside was a the most beautiful woman i had ever seen.
to my amazement she beckoned me over and asked me to get in her car.
i got in.it was a rolls royce,so warm with beautiful leather seats.
she took me back to her mansion.
it was the biggest and most luxurious house i had ever set foot in.
she showed me into a massive bathroom.
i scrubbed myself clean and then her butler helped me to put on the freshly pressed saville row clothes that fitted me perfetly.
in the dining room we eat together by candle light,such wonderful food,and the finest wines,and cigars..
then after dinner she invited me to her room.
i sat down on the edge of her four poster bed as she reclined gracefully,loosening her clothes..
“come a little closer” she whispered….
i stretched across the bed and into her arms
and fell into the thames…….
“c`est la vie”,as they say in france
“like it or lump it” as they say in england.
you sound like needing a woman, some money and luxury for your life. Not anything new…good luck.
yeah right, i’ll second that emotion, frank — “good luck.”
and btw, if there’s any way you could ‘copy & paste’ that dream-state/Enlightenment experience, and send it as an attachment to my email URL, don’t hesitate to do so…I think I could use a little of the Big E myself.
I may have to modify it a bit for local conditions — the Thames would have to become the Mississippi, the butler would turn into some temp labor help, and the limo would have to be a … Pink Cadillac.
As we say in the States, “What goes around, comes around.”
and speaking of punishing yourself at the Wailing Wall for your spiritual sins….
just today it was reported that a Polish bishop who is thumping his new book that he wrote on one of Osho’s favorite targets, the Polack Pope, reveals in the book that the late pope used to whip himself with a special belt he took with him on trips, to purify himself in penitence, to join in the suffering of the Lord Jesus…
Also revealed is that he used to sometimes sleep on the bare floor for a little more self-torture. Then he would muss up his bedding, so no one would know
about the nocturnal suffering– just a secret between him and God. But I guess someone knew after all….
And these guys are not emabarassed or apologetic — this bishop and Pope Bentdick are pushing for “canonization” for the old geezer…what a role model for all the young Catholic children around the world…bro’s, don’t beat yourselves up too much just because you have some ego left and aren’t 100% certified USDA stamped and approved Enlightened…you may end up like these Catholic guys if you travel down that path…don’t say, “I know nothing,” Socrates did that trip over 2,000 years ago and all the old Greek got for it was a raunchy, bitter cup of hemlock, and a few pages in the history books…
Fresch, my comments about Mahadevi were within a context: the context of her article. Atleast you included this in your quote of what I wrote. In this context, Mahadevi has as her scope the entire Osho sannyas community. The article has nothing to do with her book, any money she may make from selling them, or her giving satsang. You take my comments out of context and have obviously failed to carefully read her article. Presumably you have done so to vent you issues.
Osho never did any Osho meditations.
According to Osho, just prior to his Enlightenment he used to run many many miles every day. He also regularly visited a local council garden, and in fact became enlightened in that garden. He was a pretty ordinary fellow, until people made him into their own image.
OshoBob, the only plausible resolution of your recording issue is that Osho was never actually interested in the whole exercise. It is the same with his fancy robes. Somebody loved him, and out of that love created beautiful robes for him. Who was Osho to interfere? The only thing is that afterwards everyone says he was on some sort of futuristic Star-Wars trip.
What would all the intellectuals do, especially the egoistic ones, if they could not transform his utterings into an edited empire of empty words? Who would Osho sannyasins be without any trace of Osho? Their egos would have painfully died along with Osho. What if Osho cared not at all whether there was any trace of him once he flew off into the greater universe? My interpretation of Osho is that he would have preferred the option of leaving without a trace. We create the great myth of the Master when the Master is in the body. We propagate that myth in order to sustain our fantasy. Of course it is a very sincere and important fantasy.
In Bangkok many people from all ages (including a lot of trendy young people) come into temples seeking silence, meditation, and devotional expression. I am of the view there should be more of such places, yet without any religious affiliation.
Last time I was in Pune a resort visitor said to me that all she wanted was a space to sit silently for as long as she liked. She said her thing was just sitting. At the resort, no space was provided for this. Her friend said that all she wanted to do was be allowed to remain in yoga like positions during the vipassana meditation. All many people need is a space for their spiritual exercises.
These days most people do not need a yoga teacher, and anyhow most people are yoga teachers – same goes with therapists. Just give a person a yoga mat and tell them that this is a space for them to do whatever.
In an urban area, if there is not budget accommodation, this could be made available. If there is not a budget food service, this could be made available. Presumably people with more financial resources can have their basic needs catered for. The council has the responsibility of providing clean water. All people really need these days is the space. I suppose space to sit silently and space for expression need somehow to be balanced.
Maybe a group of people want to live in a community. Civilised societies have a power structure – for example federal, state, and local governance. Holders of these positions are elected by the people and accountable to the people. Within the framework of local governance, presumably some power may be accepted by members of the community. I consider transparency, responsibility, and democracy to be important. To me, managerial affairs are straightforward and functional in nature. There is nothing spiritual in it. All people need is the space, the space to do whatever that is their spiritual practice.
Abhay,
You have some points well taken, and also occasional flashes of clarity in your posts, but still, there are many occasions when you are quite off-balance, even coming up with some blatantly wacko statements, having almost no substantial backing to them.
Let’s go through a few here that strike me as quite outlandish, and downright wrong…
You seem to have this overriding view that all anyone is looking for these days is a “space” to do whatever they want to do in their spiritual practice.
“Last time I was in Pune a resort visitor said to me that all she wanted was a space to sit silently for as long as she liked. She said her thing was just sitting…”
Well fine, but why did she go all the way to the Pune Resort for that? She could do that at home. It’s very easy to find a space to sit silently anywhere in the world — in your own bedroom is a good place. I used to find very easily silent places in Beijing China, a bustling urban center with 13 million population. Not a problem at all. Why waste the money to fly to Pune, with all the noise of traveling involved, plus polluting the environment with jet-fuel emissions, and using valuable non-replacable fossil fuels for your car, plane, and train rides, just to “sit silently” somewhere at the Resort? Stupid. Unnecessary. Wasteful.
“Her friend said that all she wanted to do was be allowed to remain in yoga like positions during the vipassana meditation. All many people need is a space for their spiritual exercises.”
Her friend who wants to go into her personal favorite yoga postures can do that at home. People do not go to a center filled with pre-determined meditations and groups and socialization venues to do their own personal “spiritual” practices, Abhay. They go to be guided in the processes that the center provides, with the explanations of the techniques being provided by people who are there to give that guidance. And the added interactions of the other people there is a factor too. Now you can do Osho Kundalini at home with a CD playing on your computer, but it is not the same as with 700 other people in the room. Same goes for the other meditations. As to the groups at the Multiversity, of course it is a highly people-interactive set of gatherings, again guided by someone who the participant has determined knows something about it, at least enough to “go for it” — to take part in the group process.
On Osho…
“What if Osho cared not at all whether there was any trace of him once he flew off into the greater universe? My interpretation of Osho is that he would have preferred the option of leaving without a trace.”
Not true at all. Your interpretation is flat-out wrong. Osho managed personally at all levels throughout his life the ongoing continuous project of designing, recording, transcribing, collecting, editing, publishing, translating — the general non-stop dissemination of his talks, darshans, interviews, and life adventures in all forms of media. Just his edict to his people in his last year to have all his Hindi discourses translated into English as a top priority shows how wrong you are here. If he didn’t care what happened, he would have just said so. Obviously he did care.
And you end up with the closer,
“All people need is the space, the space to do whatever that is their spiritual practice.”
People are attracted to a master and his vision and his work, because their own spiritual practice is wanting, and they are looking for more guidance. If they already feel they know so much, then they don’t come to a master or his people. Why would they? Seems like something simple to me. Pretty basic.
Though I would have to agree with you on the point that if Osho’s discourses were not filmed in Pune 1 til the last year, then it was surely Osho that wanted it like that. If he had wanted them filmed, and had directed his sannysasins to do so, then they would have been filmed.
I do feel, Abhay, that you have it in for the Resort, for the managers Jayesh and Amrito, and for the whole set-up there in Pune and OIF. Could be your personal grudge, or just your personal government world-view that you seem hold high with a socially sanctimonious authority almost. I’m not sure what your agenda is exactly. Maybe someday it will surface transparently.
And I notice, Abhay, that your new trend is to not sign your posts “Yahoo, Abhay” every time. Do you feel exposed now that the “code” has been cracked? Is that it?
You do have a sharpness though, a tenacity, a disciplined approach that I do admire…, but maybe you have been on the barricades too long, fighting the good fight, righting the wrongs, and taking on the powers that be, day after day, year after year…there is a time to relax and give-in too, have a hug, crack a joke, chill….
i am trying to complete reading mahadevi artickel , but i give up now. it is too long and boaring
i rather do meditation or listen to osho than to read her aritickel
Good One Oshobob.. Ypou brought me sown to earth again.. Now i am dreaming of a dream like what Fank had..
: don’t say, “I know nothing,” Socrates did that trip over 2,000 years ago and all the old Greek got for it was a raunchy, bitter cup of hemlock, and a few pages in the history books… “
Oh dear !!!! Just when i thought Abhay has written a reasonably good post he was ripped of and exposed by Oshobob.. This is Pure Osho , Oshobob…
But on the point that ‘ My interpretation of Osho is that he would have preferred the option of leaving without a trace. ”
I think there was a time when Osho wanted to leave without leaving anything behind . Thought people convined him to create some form of oganization..But knowing Osho you never know …
After i was brought down to earth i am looking at the pictures of Padmavathi , Ex Wife of Rusdie..Man..she is really beautiful.. If i have a dream like Frank i prefer Padvathi in that dream.. But not by the river Ganges..
By the way, I just realized that it is really true, we have not had even the second generation of sanyas in power…arghhh. … fear….so, let’s NOT be critical of the first one because there might be an other Sheela coming…and who would really like to do the job when everybody has an idea…and the possibility of failing. Better to have the Resort and everything else, even a bit boring.
Well, here in the net, we all seem to need for some luxury and romantic happenings more than this..have a beatyful week, sweeties.
By the way, I just realized that it is really true, we have not had even the second generation of sanyas in power…arghhh. … fear….so, let’s NOT be critical of the first one because there might be an other Sheela coming…and who would really like to do the job when everybody has an idea…and the possibility of failing. Better to have the Resort and everything else, even a bit boring.
Well, here in the net, we all seem to need for some luxury and romantic happenings more than this..have a beatyful week, sweeties.
fresch,
what are you talking about “in power” ?
people who heave been touched by osho,meditation,the `dreaming” or whatever are like a virus.
just out there in the population.
in here actually.
no formal structure neccesary
no jacket,tie or mala required!
fresch you seem to wander around “seeking” here and there as a “customer”.
you are impressed with power and hope to get something from those who have it.
will you lift up your robe and ffer them your ass
and pay for it too?
good luck……
Frank…:DDDD yessss I am impressed with power, unfortunately too lazy to get it myself, but I always is possible, hang out with people who have it, more fun, money is good too.
For somebody impressing I could lift up my rope..do not think it would be for you..
Get yourself jacket and tie; it will be easier to make your dream come true.
Sssssssshhhhhhhhhhh….
… I mean:… if possible, I allways…
sorry about mistakes
Abhay,
Writting a book and giving satsangs= making money on sanyasins
well, I will not be her customer at least
Instead I am a customer of ”Garden of Beloved Master, commonly known as The Resort”.
Now I need to work.
Fresch.. You will be Ok in few years time..Dont worry
Hey dudes…just remembered…
today is the One on One with Osho that Osho Int. is putting on facebook…less than an hour away i believe, let’s check it out….! You can post live comments they say…a video from the Ranch…12:30 NY, 5:30 London…
but let`s not go off the subject too far….
how to light the touch paper for the wildfire of a new global consciousness….?
i think that everyone will agree when i say that it`s pretty damn obvious that mahadevi and ecky tolle need to go out on a date.
that antagonism they have scantily hides a burning attraction,you dont need to be enlightened to work that one out….
plus they both sound like they have never really had a relationship that is not caretaker/disciple/helper-in-the-work kind of thing….
they need to roll up their sleeves and get their hands dirty,for sure…..
they could go out to a sannyas disco(do such things still exist?)…
some elvis would be good,of course….
ecky thump could take to the floor,rip off his cardigan and show the world what a hound-dog he really is..
but with his trademark tank-top,he looks more of a seventies man,to me,arms in the air to the chorus
“brown sugar,how come you taste so good
yeah yeah yeah woooooo…”
not forgetting a ian dury too..
“sex and drugs and the power of now
is all my brain and body need…”
i can see him pogo-ing to that
finishing up with a frenzied boogie to the ever speeding up theme to zorba the greek,ending with the ouzo-soaked pair falling into each other`s arms belly-laughing till they`re crying….
then a long slow sweaty sexy slobbery smooch…
“we`ve got tonight
who needs tommorow….”
perfect.
that would do it……
as neitzsche said:
“i would only believe in a god who knew how to dance”
these enlightened sit-down artists and throne-potatoes really need to get up and boogie….
too much buttock meditation dulls the spirit…..
One on One with Osho…
a great video:
The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.
20 years, and perhaps now we get inside the head of Osho International?
Osho is pretty clear cut here isn’t it? VERY CLEAR CUT.
please see the video first, and than discuss.
Amrito
Yes Amrito
Just watched and fell in Love with Osho second time
He was so graceful
Frank.. Dont miss it..Video is still there
hi guys
I just had some wonderful dinner and delicious white wine with a sanyas friend, so we came up with what will happen this year. Have you noticed that everything feels much lighter than before?
It must be Osho’s magic in the air; we will explode this year. You know what, the Resort will reduce the entrance fee to 20-100 rupees. Everybody wants to come to see what the hell is happening. The Resort will hire King Fisher free for sanyas from Mumbai to Pune and tens of thousands of us will be flocking to Pune just out of curiosity. They just invite everybody to come as they are. We are all wanted, nobody is rejected.
We will have an amazing party; everybody from pune1, ranch, pune2 and resort-time will be there. All our friends will be celebrating together and we hear all the gossips AND create new amazing stories.
We will have evening meditations inside the pyramid, but also outside everywhere (because there are so many people), we put big screens of Osho talking all over the place, enjoy the sweet Indian night and Osho talking to us from all directions. And just dance our way to heaven.
Few notices
Kranti, you can teach some English for me, but unfortunately jokes you get or you don’t.
Oshobob, I want to have some Riviera or Sole (?) whitewine on the O roof with you…while enjoying the wine you can solve all my issues on the side of the Resort’s masterplans (and expose some spys with Frank) . Frank can show his boogie hips, and Kranti might be a decent enough dj. Who would you bring along?
Oh, I will have hard time to withdraw my self from here. This is too entertaining. Now I will watch our sweet osho, thank you for the link
FRANK Quote:bliss seekers and enlightenment seekers want to be on a high 24 hours a day.
a lot like heroin addicts and alcoholics.
If you honestly believe that the only conclussion I can draw is that your take on the subject is completely superficial.
Many seekers go through a period of seeking blissful experiences but it cannot be compared to substance abuse or drug addiction.
If a person is truly seeking to unlock the door that leads to truth he or she will, sooner or later, transcend the bliss seeking trip by seeing that what they seek is not an experience but rather an experiencing.
While Osho talked about this process he also encouraged his disciples to follow their bliss. I believe he did this because he knew from experience that you must pass through this stage and the quickest way to do so is by getting into the bliss states.
One day the realization dawns that bliss is being experienced and the one who is experiencing that bliss is in fact closer to home. The truth is not up there…its back here.
Nothing wrong in enjoying a good fireworks display, but wishing it to go on 24/7 is not something to get caught up in …you will get a sore neck. The comparison to heroin addiction is absurd because it is life negating, unlike personal bliss, which is life affirming. The truth transcends both. Getting caught up in the bliss worlds is simple stupidity. Real seekers move on. That is all.
Amrito wrote : “Osho is pretty clear cut here isn’t it? VERY CLEAR CUT”
My computer is too old to watch the video. Briefly, what is Osho clear cut about?
please see the video first, and than discuss.
Amrito
I followed the You Tube link, watched it for five seconds and said to myself, oh no…not this old hat again.
Osho is also an illusion and so are his hats. Listening to the same old words and worshiping the same old form, even though the man has been dead for quite a long time now.
I feel much closer to Osho if I simply close my eyes and move beyond name and form.
My computer is too old to watch the video. Briefly, what is Osho clear cut about?
Answer: Not shaving.
Lokesh, I am afraid you became an old hat yourself. That Osho video on YouTube was loaded. Listen carefully. And Lokesh, if you feel much closer to Osho in silence, do not worry. Why worry? Ah yes I forget, you need a new computer first. What fools we all are…..
hehe Lokesh…try and watch the entire video, you’ll get my point.
Comman, its 30 min, not 1 hour and 30 mins…not too bad.
Why do I feel like I have just been whipped by a bunch of boiled lettuce leaves? Only Osho’s Bob, backed by whipping sharp Kranti could do that!
Yes you do not need to go all the way to a polluted Indian city with unclean food and water, just to sit silently doing nothing. People do travel far afield for certain special reasons. Perhaps there is something special in the far corners of the Himalayas. Perhaps there is something special in sitting with a Master. I find it hard to see what your point is. There is nothing profound about the people guiding meditations – after all, I led several different types of meditations in the new auditorium. If you think the therapists are a reason to go to Pune, then why are all the old top-gun therapists practicing their craft elsewhere? There may be a benefit of meditating with other people – if indeed that is what they are doing. As you rightly said, that can be done in many places. Usually however it requires a considerable degree of organising, and usually a special reason – like a visiting guru.
I find it utterly absurd that you criticise the idea of sitting silently. It is the most intense practice you can do, and is the most worthwhile activity to engage in anywhere – if it does not lead to excess tension. Kranti is soon to be an on Management Team Pune, and later on on the Inner-Circle. Please suggest to him to ban all people that go to the Osho Pune space and sit silently. Such people are unsightly and their practice is disgusting.
During a vipassana session, many people change posture frequently. In my previous post I simply pointed out that a person in that session wanted to remain in a conventional yoga position for extended periods. She was not intending to do Ashtanga or ‘hot’ yoga. You take this comment, as well as the previous one, completely out of context.
Ah yes, Osho supervised everything didn’t he. Of course he was in complete control of The Ranch wasn’t he? Did not he run it by edicts? You have no idea what he personally directed, and what was initiated and continued by his followers. Remember that any resourceful sannyasin that wanted to get anything done simply had to say that Osho wanted it done this way.
In any case, do you think that simply because Osho ordered someone to do something, that this was really what Osho wanted. Could it simply be that Osho was just helping their distorted desires come out – he had this style of operating.
People come to a Master for help. OshoBob, the Master Osho left planet earth some time ago, and I have heard no reports of his return. Osho never left anyone qualified to offer spiritual support, not in Pune nor anywhere else. Do you think he got that part wrong? Who is in the position to say so?
Yehaa
Abhay
” Why do I feel like I have just been whipped by a bunch of boiled lettuce leaves? Only Osho’s Bob, backed by whipping sharp Kranti could do that!.. ”
Compassion Abhay.. That whipping with biled lettuce leaves are done out of compassion
Anyway i didnt see anyone critizing the idea of sitting silently.. From wher you did get that ? On the contrary what was suggested is you can / will be able to sit silently anywhere.. and you dont have to depend on a place to sit slently
” Please suggest to him to ban all people that go to the Osho Pune space and sit silently… ”
I sit silently all the time..I dont do major active mediations all the time.. except when i feel the need,,,So the above suggestion doesnt suit me..
Yehaa
Abhay
Is this old wine in new bottle?
“you can / will be able to sit silently anywhere”
Silently-are you having a luagh??? we only need 4 min of silence to realise and most of the people are not there.
Kranti perhaps you should re-read the previous relevant posts. OshoBob was very clear in criticising coming to Pune to sit silently. Yes, he said it could be done just about anywhere else, except places that are noisy and will leave an excess carbon footprint. I can only suppose that OshoBob rowed a boat peacefully across the Atlantic to get to Beijing.
Kranti is it you that is administering compassion? Do you know what it is called when compassion is administered when it is not asked for? It is called cruelty. Watch the cruelty arise when your compassion is rejected.
You ask “Is this old wine in a new bottle”.
That is for you to work out. I mention however that I would not offer anything other than the cheapest cask wine to drunkards.
Kranti you read what I write yet it bounces of you. It does so in part because you have a coherent understanding that you are coming from. The trouble is that this understanding is a personal theory. Best of luck in putting your theory to practice at the resort.
At the end of each of our little discussions you have either gone silent or accepted that you have a bias in your thinking. A little while afterwards you pop up and start the same game again. At least in your going to the resort you show commitment to your position. This much respect I give to you.
The fundamental reason why you have this approach is that you like what you see in Pune, and are willing to ignore the possibility that all is not as it seems and that many Osho sannyasins do not fit with what is there. This means that your path in Pune is to understand your own selfishness. This is good, for you will have many friends on the path to share many great stories. It is good not to walk alone, even if one day you have to return from where you have gone. Pune resort is not a good place to sit silently, for it would be too revealing. Good to play a bit of Zennis, get lost in a little bit of work, kick out all the authentic seekers, and pretend to be spiritual.
You can get all the cheap wine you want when you go to Pune. Of course you have to pay a lot for it. And no doubt you are wondering….yes it is in a new bottle.
I remember a lot of mold growing on the ceiling in front of the Galleria at the resort. One day some painters came to fix the problem. Do you think they removed the mold? No, that would have been to much hard work. Instead they simply painted over the mold. Of course this made the entrance to the Galleria again look very beautiful. The trouble is that it is an illusion. The moral of the story is don’t stay too long.
Yes Kranti you did not see anyone criticising the idea of sitting silently, even though it is written very plainly. This is because you create your own pretty little picture of how you like things to be. The entrance to the Galleria looks so nice after a fresh coat of paint. Of course, I, having seen the ugly cover-up know that the paint will not last long. You come along and say that there is no evidence of such things, and anyhow everyone else thinks it is a beautiful paint job. Just wait a little while Kranti. An old wine grows rich. A cheap wine ages not well. Just wait a little while Kranti, but don’t wait too long.
Did you know that because the lettuce leaves I was referring to are boiled, this means that unlike in Pune resort, they are not contaminated with harmful microbes.
Yehaa
Abhay
Mahadevi who?
Abhay, I like you as the resorts investigative reporter. Keep on going!
So, none of you liked my white wine boosted ideas…???
I also hear a very good gossip about one person from the Resort, inner circle, but perhaps it is not allowed to discuss it hear (I would like to:)….)
However Abaya,
You get some compassion from me too…:) I totally agree with Kranti in every aspect, also you should be grateful that he bothers to answer you. This is the reason why we need collectivety; we (including me) do not see our own “blind spots”.
Perhaps you have some hang over from giving your own too rigid advice of Osho meditations when leading them.
It is ridiculous that everyone should do what ever his or her wanted in guided meditations (that you can do in your room, Goa beech etc). There are also many places in the Resort you can practice your own stuff (Buddha groove, gardens etc.). I also hate it when people come with their own interpretations of Osho meditations, the way the do it now reading instructions directly from Osho is good. I always wonder why people choose to lead meditations (or therapy) instead of doing them for them selves. You know, when I dye, I would prefer to have meditated instead of have had given some mundane advice for other people…(Which is a good reason to make a career outside and live power trips there, in the world where they belong, that is the way I am doing it).
So Abaya, let’s not take attention from other people doing yoga positions in vipasana meditation.
Also, Germans do not have monopoly for engineering, French for passionate love or Indians for meditation. I have heard somebody (you know who) saying there are no nations. And I also do not want to have “an Indian Guru”, but a real master.
After ranch I heard Osho saying he does not know if people start doing evil things…he sees the potential in us. However, the ranch could have been one of his devices…where some people got very creative and other people destructive. I think (=my interpretation) is that even he does NOT know (as an omnipotent God) where sanyas as collective would be moving, even he was very interested in it, and was interested involving himself in every possible way.
It is so fanny; we all have our somewhat personal agendas here. Yet we come together and share something valuable. For me to come to Pune (or else where) is to meet other people on the path, be in the energy field.
Sanyasins, as individuals, are wired people, I often think sicker than “normal” people (including me). And I do not fully understand it why. From yesterday’s lecture I see “my house burning”, but trying to hold on to my old games with all my teeth and fingernails. In addition I see my self trying to get “the toy cars and trains” of meditation too. That creates a lot of pain that I am not able to deal with at all.
So, Lokesh, you have to understand we need some toys on the path or it gets just too much. perhaps you could share some of your own experience….?
Today I went to meet some important (!) people one hour too early ( I spaced out the time) and even I was going (=talking) with this pla pla pla good ideas etc. I was remembering how wonderful life I have, as a sanyasin, not having to believe anything of that rubbish (=I was talking). Thank you sweeties being here for me.
Fresch wrote :
“Sanyasins, as individuals, are wired people, I often think sicker than “normal” people (including me). And I do not fully understand it why.”
Ah, my theory supported again. My theory is : lots of sannyasins commited serious crimes in their most recent past lives, particularly in the second world war. That is why they “had to become” sannyasins, because things were not working out well with such serious karma.
Alok John,
This must be the craziest thing and theory I have ever heard. Would you give some insights? Oh, no, do not, just drop it. If you are referring to your self, I suggest just forgive you self all the sins in this life, it’s enough. Guilt and self-pity is poison, not understanding. Hello, you are ok.
I was thinking about something else.
With virtual hug.
Oh no…
Alok john’s digging up his pet WW2 soul-recycling theory again…
So Alok, who were you, Clement Atlee?
and I suppose frank was a rogue RAF pilot who went on bombing runs, but instead, dropped sheets of his personal limericks and doggerel on the populations of Germany and Italy as a joke, got busted for insubordination, as was punished by being reborn as a sadhu on the Overland Trail to India…
alok john,
i was down the akashik records office the other day trying to claim a karmic rebate,when i managed to sneak a look at some of the old files in the transmigration department.
it turns out that a whole bunch of nasties from auchwitz,the russian front etc got relocated in the early fifties in california,london and amsterdam.just in time for the summer of love,free love,free drugs,free festivals and enlightenment from the only indian guru in the akashik records to teach sex,drugs and rock `n` roll…!
they went from zyklon b to laughing gas in one generation…
seems blondes have all the fun……
but really,a similar theory was around in the psychic circles of sannyas in the early eighties.
the version then was that sannyasins had been reincarnated from atlantis,which had been an amazingly advanced and conscious civilisation,focused on meditation and crystals, but had been destroyed by the high-ups and priests who got on a power trip and fouled the whole thing up badly,so it ended up disappearing into the sea without a trace….
well,looking back,these past life guys were really making the best prediction they ever did,but didn`t know it!
which brings me to my theory.
past life experiences are really future life flashes.
the experiencer is getting a glimpse of his/her fate.
a public example i can think would be that of satya bharti,who in bombay doing dynamic had a “pastlife”flash that she had knifed osho in the back in a past life.
she went on to write maybe the definitive critical book contra rajneesh.
at the time she would have seen that as a murder…
or vivek.
who in a “pastlife” was osho`s “girlfriend” who died whilst he was still alive….
i say pastlife experiences could well be lke early defining dreams that we have when young,the first dreams we can remember having, that contain the seeds of who we may become…….
bloody hell oshobob,
this synchronicity thing seems to just keep on kicking off!!
or maybe we`re just both predictable old farts!?
but really,how did you know?
frank, i’m speechless.
we’ll just have to wait for someone like Abhay to come along and demean this serendipitous reality by posting some negative remark, like last time it happened.
Abhay,
You say,
“I can only suppose that OshoBob rowed a boat peacefully across the Atlantic to get to Beijing.”
May I suggest you brush up a little on your basic geography…from America you go across the Pacific to get to China, not the Atlantic. I hope you a bit more accurate in your “investigative reporting” of the Pune Resort.
abhay and the the abbot of yahoo abbey.
that reminds me of the old story about the monastery where they had to take a vow of silence and were only allowed to speak once a year,to the abbot.:
a novice moved in to the monastery to seek god.
after the first year he said “the bed`s too hard”
after the second year he said”i`m starving i need more food”
after the third tear he said”the water`s poisoned,i feel ill”
after the fourth year he said “i`m leaving”
the abbot looked at him and replied:
“i`m not surprised,you`ve done nothing but complain since you got here”
This I want to hear, from all of you: where were you in your past lives?
I know it is ridiculous dreaming, but for fun…please, I would really love this (since we can not even gossip here…)
I have been told (by a sanyasin palm reader) that I was a woman in Germany who got burned as a witch by a Christian priest, missionary worker in Africa, a temple dancer in India, an upper class bored useless woman in 1920’s smoking and drinking in societies, nun in Tibet…
How about you?
Actually, I am not interested in past lives. Waste of time and energy.
What I would like to hear is how do you take it that we actually do not have a living master who would be creating personal devices or situations for each one of us. Sometimes I wonder, if we are living in illusion after all.
its so paradoxical ..’ The Master is the illusion .. jus like everything else ‘ .. and one knows it only after being a disciple
Freschie,
i will answer both your questions — ‘past lives’ and the ‘living master’ — in one short answer…
in my past life i was Osho.
i am now reborn as oshobob, and these posts are part of the continuing personal devices and situations that I have created for you.
Ok?
Can we celebrate the 10,000 Buddhas now?
fresch,osho talked a lot about past lives.
how he knew vivek,how he was an important guy in tibet,cased in gold and buried under the potala palace 700 years ago.
he had been a “zorba` in many lives.
an intellectual too.
he had 97 past lives he said.
he knew bodhidharma well.even did a couple of tours of china with him.
he pronounced sannyasin babies reincarnations- ko hsuan was one
one kid,sidhartha ,was supposed a reincarnation of a previous dalai lama-the one who drank a lot and had loads of girlfriends(there was another case in point for my future-life theory!)
then there was all that about him being in touch with esoteric societies,
hitler`s possession by ashoka`s nine unknown men.
ludo means “i play” in latin.
ludius means “play actor,dancer”
illusion
or
allusion
delusion
or
collusion
ludicrous
or
homo ludens
?
the answer is elusive
you decide.
Oh shit, I am back in despair…no personal guidance or devices, only illusory interpretations and projections…horror. Okey, oshobob, I might consider becoming your disciple, on O roof with white wine at least. What would be you device (excluding jumping from the roof..)
Who were you Frank? Were you in Atlantis?
Frank you seem to know a lot of osho’s personal stories. It took me long time to understand that Vivek was his one time girl friend. What you think about that? Why he did not talk about it openly, what is wrong with it, if he is supposed to be tantra master? I have seen this video, where is Sidhartha now?
Did little Kranti fall asleep? What about others?
OshoBob forgive me but I assumed you would have taken the long way round – a good row of the boat and then an overland trek beside the railway line; kind of like a good Gurdjief disciple would.
Fresch I liked your wine induced vision of a party. Could we have a change of venue?
Fresch,
Can you tell why you and many other people want to preserve their anonymity while expressing the hard hitting facts about Osho and His work?
Are we dealing with the Russian or Mexican Mafia kind of brutality?
“Hanged at dawn: Iran executes two men arrested in presidential election unrest for ‘waging war against God’
May be few of us think that when you say something against the chosen few, it will also be termed as waging war against Osho or existence or who so ever.
I think it is not so.
World needs again the flowering of Osho, in a sense that when His people or His readers think of holidaying or refilling their emotional cylinder or at the time of retrospection or the time of crucial changes, the first name should ring the bells in their hearts should be Ashram at Pune.
The more i see the world in reality or through the net or 24X7 TV channels, the more i feel the need of ashram.
Ashram which not just offers the meditations but a sense of emotional belonging.
shantam,
if you think that the world as seen on 24×7 TV constitutes “reality”,then maybe you have lost sight of reality altogether.
TV has one primary function- to make you watch more TV.
then you see more adverts and buy more stuff and believe more crap.
if you cant find an ashram you like,you could maybe turn off the TV for a start.
you may be pleasantly surprised to go through a whole day without seeing anyone being murdered,tortured,drowned,killed in a disaster,raped or whatever.
WHENEVER YOU FEEL THAT SOMEBODY IS A DESTRUCTIVE FORCE, immediately tell him to leave. There is no need to condemn him, simply say “WE DON’T FIT.”
DON’T WASTE TIME, and don’t hope against hope that he will change and everything will be okay.
In the time he is able to be there, HE MAY CREATE A DISTURBANCE IN OTHERS ALSO — because everybody is so egoistic, that to live in a community is a great sacrifice of their ego. So once somebody comes — an egoist — and he starts creating trouble, others will also find ways and means to assert their egos too.
Once the community has become grounded, you can afford few egoists also. They are good, they add a little spice.
OSHO
well said,chinmaya.
there are far too many egoists round here.
it`s good to have a good old fashioned undisturbed ego-less meditator like your good self to lay down the law about surrender of the ego.
but all the same-
bring on the rasam…..
(chilli/pepper soup)
Well okay, I take your points about my WW2 theory….especially Frank’s theory that past life flashes are really future life flashes
But….
With one or two notable exceptions, Osho did teach reincarnation. Okay, he said it was not generally useful to spend energy worrying about past lives.
He also said most people reincarnate fast, often within seconds or minutes of dying. This discounts the Atlantis theory.
He also said somewhere, though I cannot find the quotation, that the “New Man” would remember his past life and know what his future life was going to be like.
Thanks for the hug Fresch, but I enjoy these guessing games. Maybe the WW2 nasties are drawn to 60s peace and love in reaction to their past lives in WW2??
Like this….after a life on the Eastern Front or at Aushwitz, you think “Fuck, I ain’t gonna waste my life doing that again.”
Like this….after a life on the Eastern Front or at Aushwitz, you think “Fuck, I ain’t gonna waste my life doing that again.”
Like this….after a life on the Eastern Front or at Aushwitz, you think ” I ain’t gonna waste my life doing that again.”
I’ve always been in favour trying to remember the present life, and I am not doing so well.
One things is to remember yourself in human form, imagine the remembrance of the animal one. I would hate to see myself as a rat eating somebody’s dead body?
Maybe that’s why I hate rates and scared of them?
Hmmmm, I’d rather dream of enlightment.
maybe like this….
imagine the india of thousands of years ago,where the holy men and their writings and utterings would have been considered the highest and most advanced, indisputable worldview and form of knowledge–something like the respect and authority that the knowledge of scientists has in our modern times.
transmigration or reincarnation would,to the average or educated person brought up in that society have simply been taken as a fact on the authority of the avatars or writers of the upanishads.accepted in a similar manner,say,as we accept that the world is round or the earth goes round the sun because of galileo`s work…….
so to “break the cycle of rebirth” may not have been a physical act of transcending physical reality,but rather a breaking with the deep conditioning of the time.
seeing beyond “the matrix” of societally conditioned mind.
also, as the ultimate reality is beyond past present and future for the enlightened one,how could there be re-incarnation?
it could only be a dream.
strange to me,as well that these geniuses whose enquiry and knowledge could go so far as to discover the true metaphysics of existence and its total purpose,and convince the masses to believe in it even when they had no experience of it themselves,never came to work out that men and women were two equal halves of humanity on this planet
,and became apogists for the archetypal blueprint for institutionalised racism ,the caste system…
apologists
Uuhhhhh, it’s so unfair; if I were expressing my self with my own mother language, I would really show you some brain storming force..However Frank, you kind of flowing, but where is your heart? And emotions? Even Abaya is showing himself, you are hiding behind this…fantasies…drop the stories and give some of your eyhhhh real inner for us.
Abaya, I am also not sure if Sanyas news likes this kind of out of the context chit chatting…But Shantam, that is the reason why I like it to be here at the moment without my picture or “real” (sanyas)name. My ideas, emotions, interpretations etc change all the time; it is HEALTHY to be able to say some critical stuff out, even it was my own anti-authorothy-powerseaking-revencefull-whatever-trip, just to be more human. And get some perspective too; some of all of YOUR (of course) ideas are so ridiculous that I have been laughing my ass off.
Like Alok John..arghhh, are you such a good person in this life that you must have been a nazi…:DDDD thank you, hello, are you real???
I liked chetna’s rat theory more. Remember the horrible pune rats…? yak..
The inner circle has always been criticized but now we are kind of hiding, low energy, stuck, doing old stuff, being too good boys and girls, boring, reading osho books and watching osho videos, no risk,…devices of nothing new, creative really happening…it’s so illusionary to hang out here…or in face book (even a friend of mine is getting dates there:)…)
However, you are kind of NOT too stupid company, I like that at least. Like oshobob was saying this is his device for us, what would be you device for your disciples? For sanyasins, I would ask them (like Frank) to go to shop a tie and a decent suite or a beatyful dress for a woman. I liked to see Amrito this year with a suite on…he is so old, but still handsome. We could be such spyes in the world. or?
I am considering joining the face book only with my sanyas name..at the moment I can not combine normal world with it. I am not sure, is it worth it? Could be better to focus meet people personally where ever you are?
And what if I become polite and calculative pr-officer like Kranti?
…many deep things to ponder here.
enough for anyone to step up to the plate and take a swing at the ball…present dreams become future projections, but are pegged as past memories….
mmmmmmm…..very interesting……
I would say the present moment — now — is not an illusion or dream. It is real.
Always has been, always will be.
Forever.
If you have memories (of “past lives”, or just what you did yesterday), they are always happening in the present moment.
If you have plans, visions for the future, or even see “prophecies”, they are always happening in the present moment.
You can’t escape it, because it’s everywhere.
Nowhere to go, nowhere to hide.
Okay, here is some more speculation….
Were Ranch sannyasins more obsequious than an “average” selection of Westerners of their age, thus allowing Sheela to gain power? I think they were.
Btw, I was just thinking frank, if this “synchronicity thing” happens one more time, maybe we should try to cash in on it….make a few bucks and have some fun…
we could make a traveling team, like the “frank ‘n bob” show, go on the road, small dive clubs, some fizzled-out Osho centers, whatever…
you play the role of the British guy, and I’ll be the “foil” as the American…
frank: “You see that guy, well he’s a right merchant banker.”
bob: “Really? Maybe he should get a new job, probably caused this economic mess we’re in…”
frank: “Right. He should maybe become a Ravi Shankar.”
bob: “Yeah, we could use some decent music.”
Like that cleaning lady in England who sang that song on the TV show a few months ago– went from nobody to world fame in the blink of an eye.
Reality? Illusion? It’s getting hard to tell the difference nowadays….
What if this meditation and enlightenment stuff is illusion? And Buddha is fiction or Osho was not enlightened but laughing at people jumping at dynamic?
Okay, we all have the experience of silence, of love (some seconds)..But, but…what if it’s only myth, like heaven for Christians. An actually we do not no if Christian are more silent or meditative or what ever…perhaps I should start praying.
we could be the dr frankenbob show!
`it`s good evening from me”
“and it`s good evening from him”
fresch,this meditation and enlightenment lark is self-evidently an illusion.
if you accept that another person is enlightened and you are not,then in those terms,whatever you see is an unenlightened illusion!
nothing to worry about.
i would suggest that the illusion is not a moral error or some come kind of punishable mistake or a sign of stupidity…
it`s more like an optical illusion.
it`s fun and interesting,
you play with it,for 97 lives or so maybe,
but we will no doubt tire of it eventually…..
Frank, if you are not enlightened, you cannot know if somebody else is enlightened…therefore it is only BELIEVING/assuming/dreaming that the other is enlightened. You do NOT know!!!
I might be God writing to you. Perhaps you should start praying for me.
jw dunne wrote an interesting book .
osho read it,i heard.
“an experiment with time”
in it he experimented with the idea that the subject matter of dreams is fabricated made from material occuring in our lives.
for example,you dream of x and when you wake you say:`oh,that was because i saw x yesterday`
we have all had this feeling.
however,dunne claimed that if you remember your dreams every night methodically ,and keep a related diary of related events in your life,you will find that the material for your dreams is taken not only from your past experience,but also from the future,that is,things that have not yet happened to you,but do-in the future !
he experimented intensely with this using many people as subjects and all came to experience the strange truth of this.
oddly,jw dunne was not some whacked-out theosophist,he was a highly influential engineer with an interest in quantum physics whose pioneering work on airplane design helped to make the spitfire plane of the 2nd world war.
i have tried the experiment,simply by developing dream recall and writing them down and then keeping tabs on what happens .
bizarrely,i can say that i agree with him.i had the same results,although not as frequently as he claimed for himself.
at some points or states of consciousness past present future ,and subject and object are one or at least slip in and out of each other.
this can be experienced without religion,psychism or whatever ,just experimentation.
what`s it all about?
don`t know.
like osho said on facebook,there`s no purpose-
just some energy is doing something,we cant tell exactly what………..
Frank, you scare me now, really.
As a matter of fact I am doing something with engineers about quantum physics (I do not have any idea what they are doing). But I am going to find everything about this, and I want that book…ooohhhh desires, desires are filling me now. However, highly interesting times. Somebody, Anand (?) was writing about nuclear research also…Well I do remember osho saying meditation is the same as nuclear reaction in psychic world. Hhuhhhhh, I am going off the ground…
So, in the other words did your dreams come true? ;DDD
i never remember my dreams, but
we all have these experiences that you are going to call to your friend and he calls you…
Sweet and loving dreams, sweet fellow dreamers.
in dunne`s view,when you have a dream that you will meet a friend and it happens that he calls you,it is that you are “remembering from the future” the moment in your life(in the future) when he calls you and dreaming it in the now.
these memories are for the most part quite mundane,that is one reason why it has generally passed unnoticed-people will only tend to notice if they have a dream of their future guru,wife or the sinking of the titanic!
If you don’t believe me about the odd karma of first generation sannyasins, have a look at Michael Barnett’s site below. He claims to be enlightened but don’t you think he has an angry face? He was Somendra in Pune 1, a famous therapist. Look at his Diamond Yoga–good business, eh? I think he is one of those guys who could sell you the shirt on your back.
http://www.wildgoose.net/en/man_1.php
frank, this jw dunne thinks outside the box, but maybe his ideas are not so radical as they may seem at first blush….
if you look at his early airplane designs of biplanes, you can see his iconoclastic style right off — wings swept forward from the fuselage, no tail, etc. But they fly, just the same. Looks like an appropriate simile for his “time” ideas. If you ask the question: “But will it fly?” , the answer is yes, but probably won’t stand the test of time too well, if i understand him from your interpretation…
The mind and dreams are one and the same. Both are made up of past events that exist in the present.
The mind is not only the thoughts that exist in your brain, but also the emotions (the ‘feeling’ part of the mind). Also, as shown in body-based psychotheraputic models, the muscles and body organs also hold memories of past events, just as your mind (in the brain) does.
The future planning, whether in a waking state, or in your dream sleep, is a projection of the mind/body memories (or dreams). Again in the present moment.
Your can’t get away from the present now, it is just impossible!
If Dunne thinks you are pulling the future into your dreams, i think he is just looking at it ass-backwards, or inside-out. He is just cocking the wings forward instead of letting them go backwards, like everyone else.
It is your past that creates your future. I would agree with Osho on this point. At least in the unconsciousness of man, man is predictable just because of this. Prophecy is fairly easy with normal humanity, because they are running on railroad tracks.
If you look at a train running 75 mph, it is not hard to predict that in 5 seconds that same train will be down the line a certain distance.
If you have a dream (or just are daydreaming in your waking state, or even “planning” something), the future event will most likely happen — maybe not exactly, but the main construction will be there. Take the example of dreaming of meeting your future wife — if you are attracted towards women with long dark hair, slender, shy, and graceful, this is the woman who will be in your dream and this is the person who you will be atracted to in your future waking moments. You know, first there’s dreams, then there’s marriage, then there’s baby in the baby carriage.
It will happen. You are not pulling the future into your dream, your are fulfilling your unlived past desire into your future (which, of course, will always be in the present)!
Or take the example of the Osho sannyasin, Ma Satya Bharti, which you bring up. In Pune 1. She writes a couple of books (basically marketing devices for the Ashram), very pro-Bhagwan (‘come, come, Buddha/Jesus/Krishna is alive and here in Poona!”, etc.). But in her mind there are lurking subterranean doubts, which she can’t put in the books (“Death Comes Dancing”, and “Drunk on the Divine”, i think are the titles — I read both). In the unconscious part of her mind, she dreams she had a past-life “killing” Bhagwan. Well, sure, maybe that never happened — it was a story her mind concocted to release her negative thoughts and feelings to balance her overboard gung-ho enthusiatic advertisements of the two books. And when she wrote the other book (“The Promise of Paradise”, i think, read it too, when it came out 15 years ago), she let out some more of her anti-sannyas and Osho feelings. (By the way, that book was actually not that critical of Osho, as far as i can remember, there were many pro-Osho parts to it).
But it wasn’t as if she was “future dreaming” in 1977 that she wanted to punch Osho a bit, and then 20 years later the prophecy was fulfilled. What else would she dream about? The Osho world was surrounding her on all sides, day and night.
You know, a person’s world is very small, compared to the infinity of the cosmos. Insurance companies know this very well — when big money’s involved, even conservative businesses go esoteric! Their actuary tables(present) for life expectancy predictions(future) are based on real death events(past). Works quite well. If the evidence shows that a chain smoker dies earlier than the rest of the population, the insurance company charges more for the life insurance policy to that guy. Business is business, just as prophecy is prophecy. Most car accidents happen within one mile of your house. Of course they do, that’s where the driver is driving most of the time.
You can predict the sinking of the Titanic. Or the 9/11 World Trade tower collapse. Or the rise and fall of imperialistic empires — when they start to extend their armies too much too far, you can predict the end is not far away. Why? The past(mind/dreams) lives in the present, and projects it’s desires inexorably into the future. Like a relay race around in a track and field meet, the baton is simply passed to the next runner, he fulfils his unconsiousness role, and passes the baton to the next guy. And the crowd cheers wildly!
Osho had the concept, which he pegged as reality, that the being, or witness, is separate from all this commotion, breaking the cycle of the mind. You could say it’s the core of the Zen approach too. The adult “baby” in you takes over, and becomes the master. For the individual, it’s a good idea, but for the society, vested interests, probably not, at least not right away.
Can you predict Osho? Was anyone able to predict Pune 1, Osho moving to a desert in the US, regrouping in Pune 2, his “death”, and all the rest? Was he an unpredictable Buddha, or was he just living out his own mind of being unpredictable…?
oshobob,
i go along with what you say.
just a couple of points:
tacking the satya bharti and past life thing onto dunne`s theory was a bit of of an ad lib on my part.
what dunne was on about,as i have experienced the experiment,was not a question of experiencing the “repressed”content of the mind,which then inevitable surfaces at a later date,as in your probably accurate take on the example of the satya bharti story. but rather it is more concerned with matter of fact happenings,for example seeing a building in a dream that i later saw for real,or dreaming of seeing a situation or a scene involving other people and events,that turn out to happen,or very close, a couple of days later
-things that do not have a clear relation to my psychological configuration,my repressions or tendencies etc
this is the kind of experience that people doing the experiment have.this can be accessed relatively easily .
it could be that these kind of experiences relate to the witness of zen and osho.
it certainly can serve to shake up the rock-solid common-sense notion of linear time.
Couldnt even access systems for two days.. Again will be in small town without access to system for a week..
Seems i missed some interesting stuff on past lives.. The only time i came close to such a thing was self hypnosis program i attended years ego.. some sort of past life reg. effort While everyone seems to get lost in previous life easily nothing happened tome.. i just sat there THINKING what i would have been. may be a farmer sitting in a agri field..couldnt imagine anything beyond that or let go .. I am curious whether all these past life stories are real or just made up by people / just illusions..i dont even remember what happened last week
And i am 40 years old Fresch.. not sure what that little kranti is..
And why i feel so proud that i belong to the category of sannyasins who are such special group with great past lives???
I agree with Frank about Michael Barnett, not enlightened. Even Amrito looks more enlightened:) With these “gurus” there is always grace lacking. If you are lying it can be seen on your face…you start using lying muscles with your face and it does not make your eyes shine, no.
I am sure if you have looked Osho, you can recognize the grace. Even sanyasins are not englihgtened there is often this grace to be seen on people’s expressions…not when they are in bad mood, of course.
Ma Satya Bharti’s book is a good example that WE need to let out some of this cult etc. negative stuff, it is HEALTHY. Thank you Sanyas News. At the moment I already took Kerti’s job being Resort’s pr-manager above.
However, I want, like Frank, to move more mysterious realm of experiencing past, future and present simultaneously…or what ever… with a zen stick.
Past lives, tarots, horoscopes come to the picture when I am too lazy to look at my self. Stories kind of entertain and console. Not very meditative, true.
Kranti you are sweet, but sometimes a baby..
Kranti, my life is great right now…:DDD
a bit boring for personal reasons (=not in love),
but as whole I just love my life, just love it:DDD
being a farmer would be very zen
Fresch, tell me,
what does this “DDD” mean?
Doo wap a Diddy Diddy?
Can mean that too oshobob… I am just happy when reading all of you people stories, including against inner c by Adhaya, Amano and Anand..I am so happy to be sanyasin, and part of this sweet group (of individuals), so I am kind of giggling here with you.
ahhh, it’s some ‘Smilies’, i see…
I am glad it does not mean,
“Do unto others as you would have them Do unto you…Duh!”
And Freshcie, you should be careful when you misspell Abhay’s name as “Adhaya” — you know, it’s an anagram code… and also, Abhay is a very precise person, very scientific you know, Fluid Dynamics and all that….
Thank you dear,
Oshobob, you can be my part time assistant secretary and part time Guru. That will solve even more of my issues.
I just had a thought-why don’t we (who live in London) meet one day for tea/coffee/etc????
I would love to meet you guys. It is nourishing to see how many people CARE!
I also know many poeple from London just read, without commenting (which is also fine) and hopefully will come to share a cup of tea somewhere too.
in reality there is no such thing as “free will”… it’s all a product of the mind
That’s not fair. I will be outsider while you will have all the fun. On the other hand I can keep writing what ever I want, regardless of your opinions or emotions.
Latter we can have a secret meeting at the Resort!!!! I would love that. In front of the inner c office.
Well there is no arguing that this has stirred all the old and new sannyasins out of the woodwork and has woken us up. I just wanted to say as someone who was lucky enough enough to have many speaking darshans with Bhagwan and was honored by taking care of Bhagwan’s mother for many years.
Pune 1 . Dont forget the terror of Dicksha in the Kitchen,special favours by the office,sponsered and arranged drug deals,aborthioins and sterilizations supported by bhagwan.fake bombing to get out of tax. yes many issues that went right to America.
The Ranch I see as a duality it was the best time in my life so glorious.Yet it almost let to my death and the death of my partner.Most of you know things hapened and went sour but most of you never got caught up in what was wrong and nearly lost everthing because of it…Do any of you even realize that there are still those is charge in Pune and other places that are a million times more responsible than you will most likely ever know. This is why I love her eyes she never ever tasted any of these things that dragged us all down.If you only knew that the end plan was a jonestown like apocolypse only no poision rather bullets from the FBI.
If she can heal this then let her try,let it all come out into the open so we can all heal again. but dont blame it all on the ranch or those women they were pawns in a much bigger drama and yes he knew everthing and if you really knew how he was in day to day life ,I think most of you would run as it was totally real and raw and in a exquisite way shows the yin and yang of our master and that he not only could weave the brilliant but also the dark.To me this is a whole guru. To move on is to own that Osho was a risk taker and we all took a huge risk and am not sure we as of yet know the outcome.
sam.
you say “he could weave the brilliant but also the dark”
surely this is just a rationalisation for what were,according to what you say, carefully and conspiratorially concealed and denied criminal and violent actions?
“weaving the dark” is not like weaving a carpet!
everyone can do it and
they do!
if you dont believe me,read the papers!
why will this girl from mumbai heal you?
maybe you have formed such a guru habit,you cant see healing any other way.
how about a bit of DIY?
heal your self Sam. You have all the tools. it does not have to come from outside anymore. You can take responsibility of your own life.
You can even write a book, your self…
Very arduous to dipict what is the final call
But one thing can be said:
It’s not possible that the world can escape from the greatest Master ever walked on our planet— OSHO
Dear Friends!!!
Here I would like to tell the whole world that Ragging is pure violence. There are other ways to be playful. There’s a very famous Osho book: Shiksha Me Kranti, Revolution in Education, which has been in circulation for last 40 years. The 3 Idiots script and film is based on the Osho vision. Read the book and you wud find it out yourself. Another book in English is Glimpses of Golden Childhood by Osho. Osho shows us the way, specially those of us who are teachers and students. We are happy to see Osho vision unfolding thru movies and novels and stories.
I say the success of THREE IDIOTS is none other than OSHO
Poets, politicians, painters, philosophers, journalists, directors…steal as much as you can, from me and my literature regardless of whether you mention my name or not. What I am speaking is not mine though it is happening through me. I happen to be the medium. What I am speaking is eternal and everlasting. I am simply the empty flute and the song of existence is flowing from it. But really what I am speaking is important, not the one who is speaking. But remember those who love me, know me and understand me, they will simply recognize it. You can not hide it in any way. My statements will surface from the whole orchestra; they will pulsate; they will be radiant enough to eclipse the eyes of the intelligent ones. Osho, the 20th century mystic from Indian soil, knows very well the very nerves of human Nature and it is why he has already spoken everything that one is yet to know, accomplish and execute.
When for the very first time I glimpsed the trailor of the movie Three Idiots, and there I saw Madhavan (FARAHAN) speaking as: even to be born I had to fight with three hundred million sperms. The one that won in that race was me. I simply recognized the voice of our beloved Master OSHO.
And when I watched the movie, Osho was found everywhere blowing the walls of our dreams. Even the lines composed in the song:
Bahati hawao sa tha wo,
Odati patang sa tha wo…
Hamko to thi raah chalati
Wo khud apni raah banata
Humko kal ki fikra satati
Wo bas aaj ka jashn manata…
Hum sahame se rehata kue me
Wo nadiyo me gote lata
Ulatee dhara cheer ke chalta tha wo…
Badal Awara tha wo
Pyaar humara thaa wo…
The biographical sketch of Rancho Ranchhor Das Chanchad is aslo derived from the Master. We should here be reminded of Osho having been called in America as Rancho Rajneesh.
After the movie got released, I became very surprised at the claim made by Chetan Bhagat that the story is derived from His famous novel Five Point someone.
Surprised- because this sort of story can be found from any College. The great writer’s hankering for being recognized simply indicates that his own world is so poor that he needs them to get compensated.
OSHO has always been telling us that if anyone is impressed by any poetry or good piece of work, then never try to go to meet the man who has written them. Because your whole sense of poetry will be marred. You will get all your sense of receptivity spoiled. What they do is to fill the gap through them and it becomes a sort of consolation to them. And it is because of this they never fail to cling to it, for that is their only treasure.
Generally the poets, novelists, great writers live their life just opposite of what they write. Once OSHO gave an example of one of the best poets in Hindi Sahitya, Ramdhari Singh Dinkar who is known to have written great heroic poems and who was a regular visitor to Osho Discourses. He always tries to know the ways of how sweets and diabetes can go together. Always talking to Him about politics, sons having gone astray and the likewise. Osho used to tell him: Dinkar! my whole sense of poetry is spoiled when I read your poems because you come in between the lines talking about all the rubbish. Dinkar said,”Bhagwan, I am not twenty four hours a Poet.” Osho said,”Come, when you are!” Actually the inner life should flower. The man should be recognized by not what he writes or speakes but by what he is and how he lives. But Dinkar was personally very timid man .
So far as the content of the movie is concerned, I have asked just one question to the people at large whether the dialogue delivery of the film is also there in Chetan Bhagat’s book to whosoever has read his Five Point Someone. I was responded from every corner: No. I contemplated that anyone can easily manage to make a story like the movie Three Idiots if he goes to any reputed Engineering College of the Country and tries to know the life and the milieu there. But I can say for sure that the philosophy rendered behind that movie is not possible than to have already gone from the teachings of the Master Osho.
Though I say that if one could understand the basic message of the movie, one will only stept on the first ladder of the whole world of Osho; the world that is everybody’s birth right. The Buddhahood that is everyone’s essential Nature. We have not yet been able to make ourselves even to understand the first step of the whole ladder.
Three Idiots is great in this sense as it can prove a stepping stone to move towards the whole ocean of Freedom, Bliss and Love.
It was in this sense Osho spoke a book entitled Sambhog Se Samadhi Ki Aur which people totally misunderstood. They did not even read it and they critisized. Every step of a ladder has got equal importance and place. No one can be replaced.
Appraisal of Three Idiots is a good sign as it indicates that perhaps people can understand. And of the greatest importance is to understand oneself.Understanding oneself is very simple but because of man’s incessant sifting from this very moment has made him hereft from it. The whole exercise of Science, the total effort of mankind in making the world better, the complete Education system if they do not let us dwell into reaching our Essential Nature, everything done in the world is simply a stupid and idiotic game which will keep man weeping, crying, frustrated and compelled to live a life of meloncholy.
The movie has become the greatest hit ever. But I have asked to so many movie watchers as to what is the principal message intended to be conveyed by the movie. I am surprised. Not even a single individual I could find who could be able to confer the real message. They liked, loved and are influnced by it but they are found confused and bewildered at the very living philosophy shown in the movie.
Osho says: there is no difference between the character and understanding. Understanding is that part of character which is not visible; and character is that part of understanding which is visible. So it never happens that one understands and does something else other that what he understands. We know anger is not good but we never give up any chance of expressing them when the moment comes. Therefore, as far as I am concerned, Three Idiots is a turning point which can pave the path for the world to understand OSHO whom the world has still been missing. In fact, we are not understanding what we are missing.
Soon the moment will come when the world will face its final collapse if Osho is not understood. As Bertrand Russell in one of his essays Science and War says that man is such as he will choose death if he has an alternative between death and understanding. At last, he says: I hope I am wrong.
I appreciate the brilliant attempt of all the characters and the director that they all have done a great job in portraying the message of the Master adroitly.
The only thing lacking in the movie is the name of Osho being told to the world openly. The money can be made; entertainment can be done but when it becomes the matter of Death and Awareness, it shouldn’t proceed likewise. Swami Rajneesh’s saying in His mystical book Tears of the Mystic Rose that the World has gone really mad at Osho having been handcuffed in America is enough for world that it has really been missing Him.
I totally agree with Maa Amrit Sadhana saying: Why man can’t feel gratitude?
Aamir Khan, Rajkumar Hiraani and all the great ones who are able to convey the message should tell the world that
This is OSHO
This is OSHO
This is OSHO
The Master of Masters
***Read many more things and get offers from the Cosmos of Osho
Visit the original sourse of it: http://loveaffairsgalaxy.webs.com/hridyansh.htm
YAY SAM!!!!! Out of the clouds comes the brilliant sun illuminating the truth, for alone I thought I was, Dodging bullets from above and below, in the dark, just feeling my way past. Thanks for the Kevlar vest SandeshSam!!!! and helmet!!!
Yet, We have to be put in a spot to see if we have “grown up”. No other way to find out!!! How much of something does it take for a person(s) to see the obvious? We are LAZY, we want to be hand fed if possible, we need prodding, well most of us. The smart ones well, know what to do and what not to do. The race horse cliche fits pretty well: The stupid horse needs to be cracked by the whip all the time to run its best. The average horse, just a couple of times. The smart horse, showing the whip is enough. The Great horse knows without thinking!!! Sannyasins are either stupid or average-nothing special.
Sounds like Osho modified Gurdjief’s techniques, to me. A true early modern guru for the early modern neurotic mind…. Since then, neurosis is worse, minds thicker and foggier.. Some drastic shit was needed… was that a gamble…all for not i think. See the Dehli center story….. regression is happening fast!!!!
wow..what to say to all this…i for one was really touched by the innocence of us all coming together again…none of us know the truth..which is what? Each persons experience ,view, maybe I am still stupid , according to whom? My heart still sings with Osho, even though my mind wonders , questions and still…Oshos presence in my life ..still …was the most beautiful flower, and after the Ranch I was so pissed off,and threw my colours off, and searched and didnt go to any ashram.except for few days during the time Vivek passed and I felt oppression in the ashram..was that me or what, I dont know and still my heart sings with his fragrance. It was never gonna be simple…the journey…but the heart still sings with his fragrance. and he is there as background,as flower…ive been watching his discourses on youtube and am astounded at the now ness and the bubbling in me again..and his daring ..we were young , most of us….he didnt come to make us comfortable…but to shake us, wake us….thought Id add a little…for what its worth….
aviram: Thank You
Quote: “Fresch // Jan 29, 2010 at 10:16 pm
Frank, if you are not enlightened, you cannot know if somebody else is enlightened…therefore it is only BELIEVING/assuming/dreaming that the other is enlightened. You do NOT know!!!”
Fresch: as you are already enlightened, only not Realized that you are, you can at least recognize that someone has realized his enlightenment by experiencing his Being, you feel the difference, you have your intuition, otherwise you would not be here, would you?
Prem Sandesh(Sam),
you say: “Osho not only could weave the brilliant but also the dark.To me this is a whole guru.”
This sparked my curiosity. May you further explain? What does it mean that Osho weaved the dark? Did he only take it into consideration because it already is in this world or did he even confront the dark intentionally? He was speaking up against it all the time, exposing its psycho-pathology and then moving physically right into the biggest snakepit. He must have known what he was up to and he must have known the plan was a jone stown like event at some time because he left the day before and so he saved us all.
Sorry for going into this dark stuff but have we realized besides our own smaller or bigger problems what the world at large is facing? Could Osho give the world (also through us) a twist that could prevent the world at large from becoming a complete slavery? He said that the world needs thousands or even millions of Enlightened Ones, being the salt of the earth! The urgency that he expressed sometimes has become really pressing (in my opinion) as 20 years have passed since he left the physical plane. Does anybody think and feel that we as mankind are going in a ‘good direction’? If so, it must be almost invisible (for me) as with movies like “Three Idiots”. Where are all the Realized enlightened ones, have they all gone into complete silence and they shower their energies from behind the scenes?
As I am still, i am not yet a Realized one so I like expanding my view of the external cosmos still and take different perspectives viewing it.
Osho often spoke about the Sangha, the commune, as important for it not only adds but multiplies the energies of the Buddha-Field and the depth of the meditation. Should we, his sannyasins, make a playful effort of any sort to come together more physically again? Or are there other means, like this forum or meditate together at the same time? Do we really need someone, like for instance Mahadevi, as crystalisation-points? I would not agree with her that most sannyasins lack inner strength and lost their will to stand up for sannyas and for Osho. Do we need to stand up for Osho? This sounds strange to me as he stands for himself but we can add to him and (re)connect if we want to.
By the way, is there still any meaning in ‘The Whiterobe Brotherhood’? And the ‘Mystery School’?
Probably everything is going well and I should not be concerned with the fate of the world and only take care of being in the here and now…
Yes, the hearts of many are buried under the ruins of Rajneeshpuram.
We have to deal with the past. Ignorance just will weaken Oshos work further and further. As long as the happenings in Rajneeshpuram are repressed and sweeped under the curpet, the energy will be obstructed. It is impossible in the times of the internet to repress facts. Trying to do so just does not work and indicates that there is no authenticity and truthfulness. As long as we do not deal with past in public, officially and wholeheartedly, Oshos work will reamain just a footnote in history, another childish cult that failed to implement utopia and never matured. Truth always speaks for itself. Lies on the contrary need support, good memory and all kinds of new lies to support the first lie. Not to trust in truth is just stupid. A fear which indicates that something essential is challenged. In this case: Oshos mistakes and blind spots. A childish image of perfection. Osho was just a human being. And this by no means is belittling Oshos work. On the contrary.
Alok John said: “Does anyone tire of the relentless “positive thinking” amongst sannyasins? I have got a sannyasin friend with serious “problems.” But when I try and discuss it with other sannyasin friends, they are endlessly optimistic and refuse to discuss downside possibilities or outcomes. I think this fails my friend because reality is not being faced.
Sometimes i think sannyasins get their ideas from Norman Vincent Peale or Werner Erhart rather than Osho.”
If it was only Werner Erhart or Norman Vincent Peale. These people were harmless. Recently everything sounds as if it came directly out of the “Secret” or from Ophrah Wimpfrey high on horse tranquilizers. The esoteric scene seems to become more bizarre by the day. I am only glad that guardian angels and channelling are out of fashion now.
Nice to meet you again, Alok John. We met on other lists and spoke once on the phone. I hope you are doing well.
“When I leave my body, I will be in my sannyasins.”
Osho is alive Mahadevi.
Love Ma Bodha
Mahadevi, you brought a new energy and strong optimism in me with your very good insights and very practical ideas on what might save the work of our Beloved Master. The only thing that remains is to put your words into practice and build one center which will unify all of us and create again one energy Buddha-field. The problem is there is no central figure who is willing to stand against the stupid businessmen who run the Osho commune and take the responsibility for one big sanyas (r)evolution.
LOVE TO YOU ALL