OSHO AND THE BEEDIE WALLAH
” There was a man in Bombay, Nisargadatta Maharaj. Nobody knew this big name; he was known to the masses as “Beedie Baba” because he was continuously smoking beedies. You can find in every village such kinds of beedie babas. I think India has seven hundred thousand villages and each village must have at least one; more is possible. And Amrito wrote a few days ago to me, because another young Dutchman became very much involved with Beedie Baba… The man seems to be very sincere, but the trouble is that the people who come from the West have a very childlike heart, very trusting, and they are unaware that in India spirituality is just a routine. Everybody talks about great things and their lives are as ugly as possible. When Beedie Baba said that he would speak only to this young Dutchman, naturally his ego must have felt tremendously vast. The crowd that surrounded Beedie Baba was also of the same quality… rickshaw wallahs waiting for their passengers, sitting by the side of Beedie Baba. And when he said he would not speak to anybody unless it was this Dutchman… So he spoke to the Dutchman, who has now compiled books on Beedie Baba. Now in India it is almost parrot-like, but to the Westerner it seems to be a tremendous revelation — when Beedie Baba said, “Aham brahmasmi; I am God, I am that” the young Dutchman immediately wrote a book: I AM THAT! Because for the West, spirituality is a foreign affair, just as for the East, science is a foreign affair.
Even the poorest beggar knows more about metaphysics, about great ideologies… And when the Western man comes — he may be well educated but his education is of science, his education is of logic, his education makes him a great intellectual. But in the heart he remains very naive. Then any Beedie Baba, any idiot can make a great impact on him. This Dutch man lived for months together with Beedie Baba. He does not mention his well-known name, Beedie Baba; he mentions only his legal name, Nisargadatta Maharaj. He has written many books on Nisargadatta Maharaj; he has made Nisargadatta famous all over the world. I have looked through those books — sheer nonsense.”
Osho
“A Guru is a milestone. You are on the move; you pass so many milestones. When you have reached your destination, it is the last alone that mattered. In reality all mattered at their own time and none matters now.”
Nisargadatta Maharaj
It would appear that it is true that when the need is there for a Guru to manifest the Guru appears, right on time. I also believe that you get the Guru you deserve.
During the seven years I spent in Poona One, I allowed myself to be put off visiting other masters by listening to what Osho said on the matter. It was rare for him to speak positively about any living master. I am fine with that, because had it not been for those seven years spent with Osho I would not have understood what any real master had to offer. I had to learn to appreciate such an exchange. In a way I was fortunate. Osho was exactly the right guru for me at exactly the right time in my life. Being in his presence was a tremendously healing process for me. I have much to feel grateful about on that level. Eventually, slowly but surely, my time with Osho drew to a close and, as the years passed, he became a very significant milestone in my life. He was not the first and I can’t honestly say I have passed the last. It is the journey that I am living, Samsara, destination still nowhere in sight. They say arriving home always happens suddenly. So yes, I agree with what Nisargadatta says, Gurus are milestones.
Osho’s above statement, although containing elements of truth, is way off the mark. I wonder how it could have been that Osho could have written off one of the spiritual world’s greatest books, I Am That, as ‘sheer nonsense’.
During the past week, I had two reasons to return to I Am That. Firstly, a friend asked me to recommend him a great book. He is a very educated man, Eton, and quite a psychonaut by anyone’s measuring stick. After due consideration, I recommended the book in question. Secondly, I had reason to seek wise council and, not for the first time, sought and found it in I Am That. And so it happened that I read the book from cover to cover for perhaps the fortieth time. It is a truly remarkable book, delivered thanks to one of the world’s most brilliant spokesman for true spirituality. I would even go so far as to say that it is a magical phenomena. If one wishes to compare, Osho never came up with anything like it, which does not mean to say he did not author some great books. He did.
Osho says, ‘You can find in every village such kinds of beedie babas. I think India has seven hundred thousand villages and each village must have at least one; more is possible.’
Unfortunately, nothing could be further than the truth in relation to Nisargadatta Maharaj. He was one in a billion.
That’s the thing about taking everything Osho said seriously, you can and will miss a lot that could benefit you.
Osho continues, ‘Even the poorest beggar knows more about metaphysics, about great ideologies… And when the Western man comes — he may be well educated but his education is of science, his education is of logic, his education makes him a great intellectual. But in the heart he remains very naive.’
This is complete nonsense. It also reflects what a low opinion Osho had of Westerners in terms of the spiritual and what a high opinion he had of Easterners in relation to the inner world. This is in direct contradiction to where he found a lot of his personal inspiration, because Gurudjieff was more a Westerner than an Easterner as was Ouspensky and it was those men, perhaps more than any others, who helped form his ideas and teachings.
Osho concludes, ‘I have looked through those books — sheer nonsense.’
“I Am That” is now in its nineteenth reprint. Quite obviously a lot of people do not agree with Osho on that, myself included. In a world that is completely confused in regards spiritual identity, I Am That delivers the much needed answers a lot more clearly and concisely than any other book I have ever read. If you have not read it I highly recommend that you do so. If you believe what Osho says and write it off as sheer nonsense, well, what to say? You get the Guru you deserve. Same goes for books.
Lokesh
Prem Paritosh (Christopher Gray) talks of Nisagadatta a little in his last book just before he died:
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=petinbA5qNAC&pg=PA94&lpg=PA94&dq=Beedi+wallah&source=bl&ots=rBI5l74V_C&sig=xGAHA60L-dAFTv8KSxCG61Owl2s&hl=en&sa=X&ei=nc5BVaL1F8XZaoy7gYgE&ved=0CDAQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=Beedi%20wallah&f=false
Lokesh, thank you for reminding about this book; ‘I Am That’ is one my most read books, the other being ‘Book of Mirdad’.
I have not a been a fan of reading Osho books, but listening to His voice is a weakness somehow retained over the years, though I have had an allergy to listening to Him once in while.
I also don’t agree about a lot of things Osho said & also feel that if he were alive when I came to Poona I would definitely be one of his banned sannyasins, but there is more possibility I would be just silent in his presence. Also, I know in my heart that he loved such persons who had their own mind.
In fact it’s true that “You can find in every village such kinds of beedie babas. I think India has seven hundred thousand villages and each village must have at least one; more is possible.”
Maybe there are Gurdjieff kind in every village in the West!
Lokesh, first of all, congratulations for typing such an amazing prose and as honest as one can muster the courage to be.
Man, it will really require lots of guts from OshoNews to publish such an article. Most probably they won´t do.
Thanks, Kavita and Shantam. Was just telling a friend today about the SN regulars. Somehow I suspect that we would all have a good laugh were we to meet in the world.
Yes Lokesh, we definitely don’t have anything to cry about !
P.S: On second thoughts, perhaps few tears of gratitude!
There was a man from Bombay
Who claimed that he knew the way.
He proudly announced: “I am That”
But Osho replied: “Thou art twat”.
You have to decide for yourself, I say.
Masters want their new disciples to be one-pointed and not to be drifted for some years unless they reach to certain maturity level. As a device, they playfully criticize other enlightened persons so that we are not distracted. Their lies are in the service of the truth.
For years I also believed in Osho’s playful lies but later on I realized his compassionate intention and by his grace and initial one-pointed devotion now I also enjoy Beedi Baba and so many others criticised severely but playfully by Osho.
But to my surprise, after reading others, Osho became more clearer and more juicier for me. Now, by Osho’s grace, I not only enjoy so many people criticised by Osho but appreciate the traditional religious books and other saints.
But I am still most grateful to Osho. By his grace I enjoy the great Beedi Baba, Aurobindo, Vivekananda, Yogananda, Sikh gurus, even Tulsidas, who is severely criticised by Osho. Sometimes his criticism is really a provocation to read them, but not in the beginning, only after years of meditation.
So, please take it easy.
Prem Avinashi
Perfectly correct, Avinashi!
By the grace of Osho, in the beginning, like you, I also needed to be lied to until after many years of single-pointed meditation I am also now very much appreciating the words of Shankaracharya, Polack Pope, Ronald Reagan, Sai Baba and Moraji Desai!
And now also the glass of urine I enjoy with my breakfast every morning has become much juicier!
Also, the words of Swami Bhorat are making the perfect sense now that I have become a homosexual, have got married and have pictures of Mother Teresa and Dave Frohnmayer and the stars and stripes on my wall!
All turns out for the best of all possible worlds, inshosho!
Yahoo!
Hari Om!
Heil Yogi!
Avinashi says, “Their lies are in the service of the truth.”
Brings to mind George Orwell’s ’1984′.
“Their” is plural, so perhaps Avinashi would care to give a couple of examples of spiritual masters, excluding Osho, who told lies in the service of truth.
Buddha criticized Mahavira although their paths are of meditation. Hindu vedic devotional path is quite opposed to Jainas meditative path which requires celibacy to be practised, so their paths are quite opposite and they have to criticize each other. If they say all are right then disciples are confused, so masters knowingly criticize each other only for disciples’ sake. Adi Shankaracharya criticized Buddha and he was saying same truth but only in different words.
I said “masters” criticize each other but in Anand yogi’s understanding, Reagan, Pope, Mother Theresa, Morarji are enlightened. A great Yogi. It takes effort to understand. Masters also criticize fake masters and people not playfully but then they mean what they say. But only a real yogi can understand, not fake, superficial so-called yogis.
Avinashi, are you avoiding the question? Just in case you missed it in your haste to be right I ask again:
“Their” is plural, so perhaps you would care to give a couple of examples of spiritual masters, excluding Osho, who told lies in the service of truth.
Perfectly correct, Avinashi!
Only a real yogi can understand!
I am a real yogi!
My guru Swami Bhorat can wrap his vital organ around a stick and support his disciples standing on the back of it whilst wearing a kamandalu full of urine tied to his turban which he drinks via tubes to his mouth whilst reciting the scriptures of Adi Shankara!
Can you manage this?
If not, it may be necessary for you to wash the mouth out with Morarji Desai`s mouthwash before pronouncing about fake yogis!
It appears that you have become stuck at abc parrot-level of spirituality and your so-called single-pointed meditation has lead you nowhere except to utter pointlessness!
Your understanding of the wisdom of the mighty East has by now slumped to such a low level that you are not even capable of answering a simple question from the Scottish skinhead cum have-a-go-advaitist, Lokesh!
Answer the question, bhai, or you are in danger of bringing shame on the wisdom of mighty Bhorat!
Love.
Yahoo!
Hari Om!
You use SN for vomiting and dirty catharsis, my buoy, but I appreciate your sense of humour, keep it up. You accurately judged my Osho parroting, but one thing you don’t know that at the same time I am also aware that I am a parrot and that makes the real difference, but your childish mind cannot understand that difference.
I also take your observation of my reaching at utter pointlessness. Aha, that is the real thing but these are just bla bla, any yogi or bhogi can do this kind of endless mockery.
I am not interested in wining any debate and prove myself a real yogi. I except my defeat with no shame.
Love
Jai Swami Bhorat the great.
Perfectly good, Avinashi!
You have touched on important points here!
If you have the correct esoteric information about left-hand tantra as practised by true Aghoris ,you will know that along with the thigh-bone of a pregnant woman and human excrement, the vomit of a yogi is a very highly prized substance!
In fact, it is written in the ancient Tantras:
“Three things are needful for the tantric aspirant: The lies of the master, the gullibility of the disciple and the vomit of the yogi”!
My master Bhorat used to meet with Robert Svoboda`s guru Vimalananda after dark down at the Pune burning ghats for a couple of glasses of the amber nectar and a plate of dead man`s leg.
Vimalananada confided to Bhorat that Svoboda was not lying compassionately or otherwise! He really did dislike Osho!
This was due to some incidents that took place when Svoboda was studying the science of Ayurveda at Pune university 75-80.
Svoboda was keeping yogic ayurvedic lifestyle and watching and controlling carefully food and elimination, when Osho, whom Svoboda considered a black magician, sent some malevolent apsaras and yoginis round to his place in the form of bra-less Brazilian sannyasins!
This caused Svoboda`s kundalini to rise in completely the wrong direction, thereby losing a great deal of vital prana and embarrassing him in front of his dhobi walli, who was Vimalanda`s wife!
Bhorat and Vimalananda laughed heartily at this story as one would expect of enlightened ones!
Yahoo!
Hari Om!
Yogi, it was not Svoboda but Vimlananda who critized Osho. Svoboda did not speak a word against Osho in his books. I am greatly impressed by Svoboda and what to say about the great Vimlananda, a real GEM. By his grace I come to know the adventurous side of spirituality. I guess Vimlananda critized Osho to keep Svaboda one-pointed and confined him to himself for some time.
If you can tell me Svoboda’s authentic views about Osho I will be grateful to you. I am impressed by your knowledge and interest in esoteric side (Vama Marg) but I doubt about your information. Osho is not less than any Vimlananda, what to say about Svoboda?
I also have so many magical experiences with Osho, no one can beat him (don’t mind I am emphasising my point with my conviction). I would love something to hear from Svoboda (but direct and authentic).
Love
OSHOOOOOOOOOO
Jai Vimlananda, Jai Bhorat guru the great.
Lokesh, I love sharing my understanding about Osho, whether wrong or right I don’t know and I accept my limitations and don’t want to prove my understanding final.
Here I want to share my own experience of criticism. I was reading books of Dr. Svaboda, an American who lived in Pune (not in Osho commune) for some years and met an enlightened master (by my understanding).
I liked his tremendous esoteric wisdom in books written by Svaboda. In one of his books he severely criticized Osho and my ego was so badly hurt that I started weeping and was puzzled that how come a man of such wisdom can criticize Osho because he himself is a tanrtric master and bold about sexuality and has an open mind like Osho.
But in my fanaticism I threw his book, abused him and felt great love for Osho and wanted to wear something related to Osho to ease my pain and hurt. I remembered that some time ago I bought some Osho t-shirts with his pictures and quotes but forgot what is there on them exactly. I randomly selected one and wore it and perhaps by strange coincidence found on it written “Take It Easy”. I immediately felt peaceful and serene.
Afterwards, I realized that Osho himself criticizes other enlightened ones (in my understanding) but their intention is to help their disciples not to be distracted and they speak lies in service of truth. But that is my understanding; it may be misunderstanding according to others, that is fine.
(Book: ‘Law of karma, Aghora-III’ by Robert E. Svaboda)
“Take It Easy”.
Osho stole that from The Eagles.
And Eagle stole from Dick and Dick from Harry and Harry from…
All quotes are actually borrowed, nothing that is ever said in this world is original. What matters is the timing and who said and from where.
Avinashi,
I think that when someone like Osho or a Nisargadatta has attained full enlightenment, or ‘dissolved into Egyistence’ as Osho loved to put it, yes there is light and freedom, and they can be a lamp for other seekers.
But the bottom line is that these masters will be making mistakes and be simply incorrect about things on purely the mental level, which is sometimes confusing, as seekers will tend to put their masters on a pedestal, which is understandable, given the experiences and the grace and light that emanates from these enlightened folks, and it doesn’t seem plausible that they could ‘get things wrong’.
And these gurus can also be slightly deluded by their own sense of peace and freedom and imagine that everything that comes into their (rather enlarged) heads is ‘how it is’.
So you can have an Osho stating that. Aurobindo was “just a philosopher”, or “a Beedie Baba can be found in any village in India” – obviously not true, but just Osho’s own limited beliefs.
And I don’t feel that Osho was ‘lying’ in order to get people to focus their energy on him; it was just simply that he was sometimes ‘wrong’ about things on a mental level – even other masters.
Once I asked my guru, Swami Buntar, “Why is Osho slagging off so many other masters?”
“Because Osho was a twat!” he shouted, and as he said this, he hurled a brick as hard as he could at my head.
As soon as the brick hit me, the mind disappeared.
My questions had dissolved.
I could see that ‘masters’, and mind, were just on the surface.
Avinash, my dear, are you sure the brick that your master so rightly hurled at you didn’t damage your brian?
I mean brain.
Tan, Avinashi is a beautifull name, it reminds me of one of my favourite meditations: ‘avin a shii…’
But I am Swami Shanti.
And in answer to your question, being hit by the brick was very liberating, showed me the truth.
Oops! Sorry, Swamishanti. X
Was that the great Billy Buntar Maharaj?
Shri Shri Buntar Maharaj:
http://sannyasnews.org/now/now/members/swamishanti/activity/38845/
SS, btw I have seen him walking barefoot in Koregaon Park not very long ago.
Ah, a great blessing! Yes, he does sometimes visits the Park looking for potential disciples.
Be sure to put a couple of rupees into his pot if you see him.
Hey, but he looked like he didn’t need any donation & though a little slimmer than the photo you shared. (MOD: needed OR didn’t need?!)
Btw, SS, I am mostly for self-service & don’t have money to donate.
Sand and cement are mixed in a certain proportion to create a building. If sand and cement proportion are in Indian Estyle, building don´t last longer.
Same is the situation with a mixture of facts and fictions, truth and lies.
The people who saw Osho mixing this also adopted the similar strategy. Only problem is they are mixing a bag of truth in a truckload of lies.
Result is obvious. A blue chip company is reduced to penny shares.
A lovely article, Lokesh. I don’t know the book at all, but have glanced at it in the past hour or so. I’ll have a more detailed look later.
My experience is that that teachers find it difficult to agree, or support other teachers, largely because, each brings their unique style and interpretation to the subject.
However much any one teacher finds ‘common ground’ with another teacher there is always a sense that each brings something unique, new and fresh to the table. What is fresh and unique is by its nature not old and stale, and therefore appears ‘better’.
Furthermore, there is no single, fixed or complete ‘teaching’. One teacher may emphasise one point over another, one may direct the seeker in a particular way, and may be more suitable to that individual.
In addition, people are drawn to one teacher over another in ways that I didn’t always understand. I remember some people who were interested in Da Free John, they were serious and well intentioned, but for me, I could sense no common ground with him as teacher and his books made no sense to me.
What I loved about Osho was that he married all that was essential from the East with the psychological issues facing me as a westerner. Both Krishnamurtis offered another bridge to the western mind in me, whilst Barry Long brought common sense and groundedness, sex and love.
From where I am now, each served their purpose, as have others, until the point is reached where no formal teacher is required at all. I am my own master and can look back at them all, seeing the postive and the limitations in them all.
Like Osho, I could choose to criticise them all, but I don’t. But I’m not faced with his dilemma (as I’m no teacher).If the student doesn’t surrender to the teacher, if the student doesn’t truly give himself, warts and all, he never learns either.
Osho offered himself as the ultimate teacher in order for me to discover no need for a teacher at all. And I thank him for doing so.
Further reading the book ‘I Am That’ leads me to these judgements:
1. The chap is enlightened.
2. Poor man had to suffer a lot of intellectual questions from spiritual seekers, for whom he had no clear answers.
3. The questions arose from people who were already steeped in so many eastern concepts that they couldn’t understand the simplicity of his answers.
4. This makes him useless as a teacher, at least to me. And reading the endless questions, it appears he made little sense to the questioners either. They keep on repeating the same question in various guises and never get the answer they are looking for.
5. The teacher is one of many eastern teachers who “know the truth but can’t teach”. There is a massive difference between a knower of truth and a teacher.
6. I’m not surprised Osho criticised him, he would have seen this type of teaching/teacher all over India. And would have realised how little sense most westerners would make of him.
7. That Lokesh and others do find him of value is because they themselves have little to truly learn from them. He is affirming their inner knowledge, which has its own mystery and beauty but still Lokesh is drawn to Osho to seek a deeper clarification. It’s through Osho that he finds a greater understanding and not through Marharaj.
8. This type of teaching is less and less useful to westerners and to easterners today. It’s old hat, intellectual and has a place in the library but not as a source of the new knowledge that is needed now.
Simond, as you believe so the world will appear and you are no exception to the rule.
I could comment much on your eight statements. Instead I will focus on the blatantly incorrect ones.
2. “Poor man had to suffer a lot of intellectual questions from spiritual seekers, for whom he had no clear answers.”
He was beyond the state of suffering. One of the remarkable things about I Am That is how the master takes mundane questions and uses them to deliver profound answers that were extremely clear and concise. That you miss this speaks miles about the limits of your understanding.
8. “This type of teaching is less and less useful to westerners and to easterners today. It’s old hat, intellectual and has a place in the library but not as a source of the new knowledge that is needed now.”
Man’s search for truth is ancient. The road to the truth is the same today as it was 10,000 years ago. You are labouring under the misconception that modern man requires something new in terms of knowledge. This is not the case, because man’s deepest questions remain unchanged. We might have smart phones instead of tom-toms but that does not mean we are any different inside from ancient man.
In essence, you do not really understand your subjects and were you to meet the Beedie Wallah you would be one of those who, to use your own words, were already steeped in so many eastern concepts that they couldn’t understand the simplicity of his answers.
Avinashi, I guess we all make statements from where we stand.
Simond, to me there is no new /old knowledge, it is simply knowledge.
Yes, Kavita, I agree with your clarity.
Oh, Lokesh, this is fun, a scrap! A great example of how 2 masters can never quite agree as to how and what to teach. Thanks for confirming my argument!
My impression is, Simond, you have a professional goal to be like Eckhart Tolle & Bros.
Lols.
Cool. It is all good clean fun.
Lokesh,
I´d like to refer to two points you made, particularly :
“That’s the thing about taking everything Osho said seriously, you can and will miss a lot that could benefit you.”
Yes, that´s true.
One misses and will miss a lot that could be of great benefit.
What it means to be a good ‘Listener’ has been discussed here every now and then in other chapters.
Even more goes to the point, how to track the reading of a virtual anonymous ´chat´ with quite a diversity of verbal playing field in terms of contributors and onlookers, servers, moderators, editors, and so on and so forth.
You said, Lokesh, you have been discussing with a so-and-so about the “regulars” here. Maybe your invitation of this thread issue came out of this conversation?
In the 90s of the last century, I have been looking for a teacher offering therapeutic skills to deal with post-traumatic stress disorders.
Came across and met a man from California, ´ Naranjo,´aka Stephen Wolinsky, who, not by books or a book, knew Nisargadatta personally, and has been his disciple, if one can say so. He talked about it.
Later, I found out, in his seminars (at least), that he had been visiting the Ranch in Oregon also as a kind of ´profiler´ with his baseball cap on, counting the Rolls Royces, examining what´s going on ‘his’ way. He talked about it.
The delusion I was in, that his offer would bring benefit for me in terms of healing, and to share a healing , was shattered when I found out where his kind of scientific approach was rooted in.
In that time, I also got more acquainted with the book you mentioned.
And up to this very moment, I am in awe to see how different the range of solitary Beings embodying the Adavaita Wisdom was and is, and how different the expression of disciples or friends being around such a Master .
What repelled me in this case (with Stephen) was not only the amount of contempt for Osho, but also the amount of contempt about His Sannyasins from his side, being busy in the healing ‘arts’.
So, on my side that was a short but intense episode. And I did quit.
Yet, leaving living traces, like as to gain some more awareness about ‘trances’ happening and their quite often devastating effects on body-mind-soul.
Second point I want to relate to, Lokesh:
“You get the Guru you deserve. Same goes for books.”
Well, as you also did put out the ‘Heil!’ to some Avinashi in this thread, enjoying as ever Anand Yogi’s contribution, special as ever,
having then Kavita on your side on her verbal-virtual surf tile, I would say that a statement like this above is always true. Always. And at any moment. And for everybody.
However, using a word like “deserve” in an energetically contemptuous way, may not lead to an invitation for more awareness on both the sides of responders, but rather to establish a hierarchy, which, in Truth, simply doesn´t exist, whether we like it or not.
Madhu
Madhu, good post. Deserve? It is only a word. To each it will have its relative symbology. I could have chosen another word. Then what? I did not think too much about it. You did.
If spirituality is
Reading the scriptures
Love is
Watching the porn!
No, Shantam, not necessarily at all, it depends how they’re used, on the individual, ie on YOU(and me and everyone), how you read, with what degree of open-ness and ‘passion’ (rather than mere ‘interest’ or curiosity) – not to mention discrimination born of intuition or experience, or both; which determines how much you are capable of absorbing what’s written, not only intellectually but also on an energetic level; and not least, where specific teachings are concerned, whether you bother to actually practise whatever you know seems right for you.
Thanks, Satyadeva for this wise reply.
Presence of mind is when irony is reacted to in an ironical way.
P.S:
Other day my inner voice guided me: I should not ignore or comment in a sarcastic way on your posts.
Yours is an exception, though principally I feel it is important for the psychological and spiritual discussion when people don´t hide behind the curtains, masks and camouflaged names.
“Presence of mind is when irony is reacted to in an ironical way.”
Shantam, I feel so embarrassed by my dreadful mistake. In order to avoid such truly appaling misinterpretations, in future please insert ‘This post/paragraph/sentence/phrase/word/punctuation is ironic’ before each such instance. Thank You.
Thank God it’s Friday – I’m off to the mosque to pray for forgiveness….
When a paragraph or sentence ends with exclamation mark (!), usually it implies it should not be understood in a usual way.
Sarcastic punches, jokes, ironies quite often end not with (.) but (!).
Hi Ronnie,
Quite often, but very far from always.
If you think it’s all about punctuation you don’t know what you’re (ir)on about.
I, Ron Knee*, have spoken. If you’re ever in Neasden, warn me beforehand.
(*If perplexed, copy/paste:
Private Eye proves the old jokes are the best – The Guardian)
Just in case you missed it I have reposted this track on Soundcloud so that you can listen to it as you read Beedi Wallah comments.
https://soundcloud.com/luke-mitchell/guru-guru-mc-loke-tommy-sm
Mc Loke, write down the lyrics for us. Could just pick some words and sounds interesting. Cheers!
The lyrics are intentionally vague. But seeing as how you asked, Tan, I am only too happy to oblige:
MAHA MUDRA, NADA BRAHMA
LA PURA VIDA, JAH JAH BABA
KARMA DHARA, BOOM SHANKARA
LOKESH VARA, GRAND VITARA
SUNDER BANA, SHAKTI TARA
CHAKRA MARA, SHANTI CARA
GATA GALA, IN SHAM BALA
MANTRA PARA, WUNDER BARA,
GURU GURU, BEEDI WALLAH
VOODOO HOODOO, BE SAMSARA
TANTRA TOTEM, DOPUM SMOKUM
SIDHI SCROTUM, CHEEBA TOKUM
GREAT BIZMALLAH, IN SHAMBALAH
FREE TIBET, SAY THE DALAI LAMA
BARDO BODHI, JU JU MASTAH
KUNDA LINI, YAMA RAJAH
YOGA YODEL, VERDE FARBAH
FELA KUTI , IN KINSHASA
GURU GURU, BEEDI WALLAH
VOODOO HOODOO, BE SAMSARA
GANGA GIRI, SANTA ANNA
HEEBI JEEBI, SEEK NIRVANA
AY A WASKA, SANTO DAIME
SPITZEN KLASSA, PANTO MAIME
MOJO MOOCHO, MANDARINA,
OSHO JU JU, HIROSHIMA
SHIVA CHO CHO, HOORAH PRIMA
GANDA HARVA, FUKOSHIMA
GURU GURU, HE BEEDI WALLAH
VOODOO HOODOO, BE SAMSARA
Bloody hell – hippie lingo!
Loki, you are the
besta rapa rapa
Anda we are da
privledged oneza
to be here & nowa
ona sannyasnewza!
Yo!
Follow-up on Nisargadatta in a recent movie: Rays of the Absolute https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugK51abLMtI
Nisargadatta’s barking and yelling style does not appeal to me personally, but as a friend says in a Spanish neologism: ‘Cada uno con su cadaunada’ (roughly translated: ‘each to his own’).
Interesting that Osho said “sheer nonsense” about Nisargadatta…yet there is no counter-quote where Osho says the opposite. Once again, we see that Osho cannot be made to contradict himself, even on mundane matters like who is and who is not enlightened.
“Either you are enlightened or you are not, it is as simple as that. And enlightenment is not caused by anything, it is your nature. So it is not a question of making a great endeavor. It is not an enterprise; you need not plan for it. It is already the case!
That is Atisha’s first preliminary: Truth is.
Enlightenment is: it is as much as the sunlight showering all around. But you can remain with closed eyes, and you are in a dark night although the sun is showering everywhere. Open your eyes and the night disappears and there is no darkness. Even when you were thinking there was darkness, there was not. It was a very private affair, idiotic; it was something eccentric that you were doing.
To be unenlightened is something that you have earned; great effort has been invested in being unenlightened. And continuously you have to go on making an effort to remain unenlightened. Just drop making any more efforts to remain unenlightened, and you are enlightened. Enlightenment is your natural
state; it is what you are.”
– Osho, Book of Wisdom, chapter 2
The Beedie Baba could not have said it more simply, but he would have barked and yelled it.
Thanks for the link, Samarpan.
Each to their own, right enough. I rarely copy and paste Osho quotes. It is too easy and requires no real understanding on the poster’s part. I am more interested to hear what the other SN commentators have to say. If I want to hear what Osho has to say I can simply pick up a book and start reading.
You say, “Once again, we see that Osho cannot be made to contradict himself.” I can only conclude that you are either completely stupid, joking, or perhaps you were dropped or your head as a baby.
Perfectly correct, Samarpan!
Do not listen to the Scottish skinhead turned self-styled have-a-go-advaitist! He speaks sheer nonsense like his guru whose wisdom can be found on every corner in India like packet of 501 Ganesh bidi!
It is absolutely neccessary to quote Osho at every moment!
There is an appropriate Osho quote for getting out of bed in the morning and for going out of the door to buy a pint of milk and coming back to put the kettle on!
There is absolutely no contradiction in Osho’s words!
If you find a contradiction how will you remain a true disciple?
Remember, Osho was enlightened at exactly 2.03 am on 21 march 1953 and read 20,000 books by the time he left his mother`s breast!
Those who are unaware of this fact may wander for years in samsara, falling prey to idiot gurus who are absolutely barking!
Those advanced meditators and true disciples like yourself who have devoted themselves and banged the head on the marble in true devotion can never listen to low-class gurus who bark like pie dogs in the Bombay slums when idiotic westerners throw them a chapati!
Yahoo!
Hari Om!
4.5 stars!
4.7 stars!
You say, Lokesh, “the lyrics are intentionally vague”?
Strong underestimation, I´d say, and thank you for sharing.
Too bad, as mI, like Tan, couldn´t get the juice of it all, when listening to the e-cloud. So, good to see now the lines also.
But maybe that´s ‘intentional’? “VOODOO HOODOO, BE SAMSARA”…
Yes, what else to be, isn´t it?
Madhu
Samsara, interesting word with various meanings. In this case I would say, Samsara is life on Earth, filled with sorrow and pain, but taken in such a way as to accept it and embrace it, even going to far as to have a wee joke about it all and celebrate the whole bloody show.
Had I read this book at the time of Poona 1, I doubt I could have appreciated it much at all. I suspect it’s not what I needed back then.
It’d be my guess that Osho, although he said ‘I Am That’ was “sheer nonsense”, actually knew what a great work it was. There was a different kind of work being done back then, and it wasn’t the esoteric end of Vedanta.
Such a book, I doubt, would have served what Osho was up to. So for me its not surprising he called it “sheer nonsense”.
Reckon you’ve nailed it there, Dharmen.
Let us say someone has read all the best-sellers in the category, ‘Spirituality and Esoteric’, does it mean person will be able to take great flights in the inner realm?
Books, howsoever great they may be, are a kind of chewing gum for titillating some nerve in the nervous system. More one cannot expect from them or from a first aid box lying in the appropriate place at home.
A master is not a book author, a master is a person who has disciples. Osho is one. He created the environment for Lokesh and Bros. to spend unlimited time around him and fellow disciples.
In my eyes, here lies Osho´s greatness and no one else comes even 10 miles closer to this, Osho´s milestone.
Very true, Shantam, books are only a stepping stone, so is the physical Master. You should know better being born into a Sikh family who revere the Guru Granth Sahib.
Anyway. I don’t have as much energy as well as clarity to explain the intricacies of it all. & also I don’t need to challenge mine/anyone’s intelligence regarding this.
After seeing Samarpan’s link it made it clear & I can say that Osho had a multi-dimensional approach, which he himself knew about & explored & shared with his people.
This also makes me realise there is no need for me to compare anyone to anyone.
Now I am wondering what Osho was up to!
Just remembered that I should be getting ready to pay our annual property tax today!
I read this book at the end of ’93 and it has been a reference book in many ways. I have read few pages after Lokesh’s post.
It mostly always feels good to bathe in light, doesn’t matter whom it belongs to!
I have also enjoyed the book in the past, I like this approach, which is known in certain circles as ‘the way of the bird’ – ie trying to pop one out of the mind directly by talking about it, or shouting about it in Nisargadatta’s case.
But I have also enjoyed reading the quotes of Ranjit Maharaj, who was Beedie Baba’s disciple: http://www.inner-quest.org/Ranjit_Satsang.htm
Correction:
Ranjit and Nisargadatta were both disciples of the same guru, Siddharameshwar Maharaj.
Thank you, SS, bookmarked it, as I don’t have energy for it right now.
P.S:
Maybe this light has no real owner!
While watching a political interview, I came across the name David Hume. One of the political genius of India, Arun Shourie, mentioned his words, “Who is it who has not been ruined by his own nature?”
So I checked the biography of Mr. Hume and his quotations.
This Scottish gentleman of 17th century does not look less worthy of a place in Heaven in case some Beeri baba, Marlboroman, Camel on the backpack gets two bedroom flat in the exclusive zone.
Here are few of his words randomly chosen which have touched me the most:
“A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence.”
http://www.brainyquote.com/slideshow/authors/top_10_david_hume_quotes.html#rbD8IlX463C4pipz.99
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/David_Hume
“P.S:
Maybe this light has no real owner!” (Kavita)
Such a profound statement, Kavita; would more belong to a preamble for anything but less to a “PS”.
And yet, where to go with all our trademarket discussions, and many more – mostly – very nasty stuff?
Otherwise, what comes out of that, being shed with light, is so miraculously unique, isn´t it?
And what to say about these some other creatures stealing the ´light´, like Prometheus in the old Greek saga once ´stole’ the ´Fire´? Lifelong torture by having his liver eaten up by vultures…so says the myth.
Better to stop here, isn´t it?
Anyway, your “PS” is a PREMIUM ONE!
(Have a nice day, in spite of your taxes-to-do-list).
A Smile and more of it,
from Madhu
Madhu,
“Maybe there are Gurdjieff kind in every village in the West.”
Another one from Kavita, she can go from subjective to objective sentences that really hit the spot. I wonder why she doesn’t write something for us, next string, maybe? What do you say, Kavita?
Thank you, Tan, but somehow no real motivation for that.
I am feeling the outside heat now & shall incubate on my own for a while.
““Maybe there are Gurdjieff kind in every village in the West.”
Only someone with zero experience of villages in the West (or someone totally stupid) could write that or find such naïve nonsense in any way credible.
Satyadeva, you need to travel more. You have no idea…Am I stupid and naive? I don’t have a problem about it. Cheers!
“Am I stupid and naive?”
Yes, in this case, very much so, Tan. Carry on like this and you’ll be rivalling Shantam for the SN Fool of the Year Award.
Thank you, Madhu.
“Eventually, slowly but surely, my time with Osho drew to a close and, as the years passed, he became a very significant milestone in my life. He was not the first and I can’t honestly say I have passed the last. It is the journey that I am living, Samsara, destination still nowhere in sight. They say arriving home always happens suddenly.” (Lokesh)
My guess is, next great spiritual Master will be
a woman.
Most probably an American (not Indian American, Latino or coloured, but long blond hair with long legs).
Chudo, you are talking about a milestone I passed a long time ago. That crystal ball you bought in the Chink shop was a rip-off. Return it to Mrs Woo and tell her too many Wings winging the Wong number.
Once there were milestones, now navigation system in handy reminds, “You need to do five times Dynamic and then a week in Path of Love, wait 72 hours and you have reached.”
By the way, where is Arps? He has been missed here.
Tan,
I don´t know what you are up to, referring to your post (2 May, 2015 at 7:56 pm), addressing me?
Please clarify.
Madhu
P.S:
Sometimes, asking myself if it’s literally the same that´s happening on the ´screens´ of every contributor? Or not?
MOD: IF YOU MEAN DOES EVERYONE GET THE SAME POSTS, THE ANSWER IS YES, MADHU.
Hi Madhu, I just saw in you an ally to persuade Kavita to write something. Just that! Not to worry! X
Hi Tan,
Thank you for responding.
I would say , once again, that Kavita indeed, WROTE something… and it is up to us, to respond.
However, otherwise, what she WROTE (in her “PS”) may be leading to a fruitful SILENCE, or leading to a gap of silence at least, to regain a focus on essentials.
Also, I can understand anybody, including Kavita, (and me myself) to get a bit or more exhausted these days, to utter words, just for uttering words sake.
Just sharing from my place here:
I am quite possessed by the more than just ´news´on the earthquake in Nepal , and what that means for anybody in the global chat area or concerning (local) issues , how manage to be in support to victims worldwide, instead of kind of fooling around (in and at and from.. most of the time better places, so to say)
We´re all becoming so near and yet sometimes , so far. Isn´t it ?
And how to communicate ? Or how to commune in THIS ? In a good and human way. In support of those, who are in need. That´s a living question, QUEST ? For me at my place here-now.
Wish you well, Tan, you worldwide traveler with some of your roots in Brazil, some in India, as you put it, and being still in the UK ?
Anyway, wherever you are just now, inside-outside, you are a sister too, aren´t you ?
Love,
Madhu
One of the punch line from this string is Kavita´s last sentence from her post,
30 April, 2015 at 11:37 am
In fact it’s true that “You can find in every village such kinds of beedie babas. I think India has seven hundred thousand villages and each village must have at least one; more is possible.”
Maybe there are Gurdjieff kind in every village in the West!
It is true in a way, almost every village in the West has surely someone who has the confidence and expertise for therapy and counselling into Channelling, Astrology, Reiki, Aura Soma, Past life, Tantra, Tantra for Singles, Tantra for married, Tantra for divorcees, Tantra for kids as well as seniors.
Seems like i have forgotten to add Satsang and Yoga!
And yes, Art of Love, Path of Love, Alchemy of Love, Mystery of Love, Economics of Love and Salvation through Love.
Spiritual wisdom is booming in the villages.
I prefer Asparagus Soup!
But “someone like Gurdjieff”? Come on, Shantam, wake up, for Christ’s sake!
Unless, of course, you’re determined to hold onto your title….
If someone was not with Gurdjieff, then it is just a hypothetical idea and media-generated thought about his greatness. Same is with other names who are no more but their names are.
For a sane person, an average alive woman can be more useful than the Marilyn Monroe!
Shantam, why wilfully ignore the considerable literature by and about Gurdjieff, written by both the man himself and his contemporaries?
Apart from your obvious laziness, I suggest it’s simply because it’s, well, just a bit ‘inconvenient’ for you to bother contemplating.
If there were really “a Gurdjieff in every village in the West” then the world would be very different from how it is. Even total sleepwalkers like you, Tan (and me) might have woken up a little…Well, ok, not you or Tan, but me and a whole lot of others….
He is. El Chudo is our village chump and he is certainly one of a kind and not to be found in any other village East or West. Heil Chudo!
@ Avinashi /3 May, 2015 at 7:16 am
Yes, Avinashi, that´s a very cunning reply.
And yes, Avinashi, that may be the reason, why it is sometimes so important, to have a deeper look on the ´Dicks´and ´Harry´s ´and their motivations and intentions and means to reach an ever (mostly ) not existing goal.
And yes, Avainashi, that´s why wisdom whisperers , who are worth their Salt, ever have been agreeing, in whatsoever language happening pointing to a processing inner work , called: “Know Thyself”.
As Gurdieff is often mentioned here at this place; I remember that He told some of His disciples from time ago, the story of His father (I guess). And the story goes about this simple man´s recommend, that -before (re–)acting (in terms of action) , to give it space at least with one night sleep – and WAIT.
And even if the latter is also stolen from some countless `Dicks-andHarry´s´, this is a very precious counsel, Isn´t it?
Madhu
P.S:
And my own experience is, that when a counsel of this kind echoes in the Heart of hearts on a very deep and not intellectual level, there was and is preciousness in it…
And you then don´t brag about, but take it inside (the counsel).
Most of the sannyasins are in this stage of their life, they don´t crave for living master, once in a while some classic scripture is enough to kick start their car, scooter or moped.
This too is a big freedom!
Two points not mentioned in the 91 comments above!
The book ‘I am That’ was a translator’s masterpiece and arguably his life work; His name was Maurice Frydman and he translated from the Marathi tape recordings of Nisargadatta.
I don’t know for a fact, but suspect this translation was the beginning of the ‘fame’ of Nisargadatta as the book was imbued by Frydman’s understanding and literary ability to reach a western audience. Frydman’s efforts were a considerable gift to all seekers.
I have never considered ‘Advaita Vedanta’ very easily understood, and especially for beginners. Arguably, it has been widely misunderstood.
My experience of reading the book long after Osho had left the body was a contact high, though even then I could not say I ‘understood’ it.
Certainly, as some other commentators here have suggested, it is for those who have explored other more body-mind approaches like Osho’s before coming to such a text.
PM, the essence of ‘I Am That; is very simple to understand. What is important is how earnest your enquiry is.
Sammy posted a link to an interesting vid. Unfortunately he misinterpreted the heated Marathi delivery as yelling and screeching. Maybe we need someone to yell at us to knock us out of our ancient sleep. I downloaded the vid and will watch it at some point. I skipped through it a bit. Lots of simple Indian folks explaining their meetings with NG. Intermitently there are inserts of NG speaking.
I stopped at one point and studied what he was saying in such a heated manner. Something about waking up now and letting go of all the shite we mistakely take to be who we are. His conclusion being that all that mistaken identity thing was soon going to have to go and it is a good idea to invite it, open to it, accept it now. Somehow that has stayed with me since I saw it. Maks sense to me.
That is what I love about NG. He is always right on the money, never wavers, always speaks the truth.
I have noticed in the Ibiza esoteric scene that NG is getting mentioned a lot right now. The beedie wallah is in. Who would have guessed that would happen?