Financial Models at the Resort/Ashram old and new
During the last few months, much discussion has taken place in writing at sannyasnews about Osho and the people who are the current custodians of His work. As I imagine we all can agree Osho is not just a name of Acharya or Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh; Osho is a complete way of life based on a contemporary definition of Meditation, and LOVE, developed under the microscopic observation of an Enlightened Mystic.
The simplicity of Osho is such that it is still quite possible to captivate the attention of those tens of thousands of people around the world who are free from the past and want to use this freedom for a better and new approach towards individual and collective life on our earth.
Osho is not a theoretical jargon or a Utopian idea of some university scholar. On the contrary a campus was developed for real experimentation with this vision. Many, many, are witness to what happened.
As it is said, many great experiments touch the dust because of very small wiring defects. However with passion and resilience, it is possible to work beyond and over these flaws. The human spirit has faced such challenges from the beginning of the species.
Being a part of the Osho movement for the last 27 years, i don’t hesitate to say that on some fateful day at the end of the nightmarish Nineties; when the computers of the world did not crash because of the millennium bug; someone performed a vasectomy on the spirit of the whole Osho movement. A simple operation with local anesthesia, not even a scar remains after a few weeks, yet life is never the same again.
Now we are approaching the 20th anniversary of Master leaving the body, I wish to point out how we can create ” Reverse Vasectomy”. Such an operation exists, though it is complicated.
The re-blossoming of 17, Koregaon Park, Pune is a need of our time. This campus developed under OSHO is may be the only campus fully dedicated to the research and development of Human software. I don´t think something like this exist in Silicon Valley or in Bangalore. Can the incubator of Zen Zen Zen be likewise created in the technical labs of Sony and Nintendo? The best would be that the people who performed the first operation, realise their folly and do the reverse work.
If they don´t, the future will do it somehow. It is just a matter of time. People are intelligent enough, if they have to follow they will definitely follow the foot prints of the Master and no one else.
So let us discuss here one main point: namely MONEY.
The work of Osho was not supported by some government grant, neither was it sponsored by some business group or industrial house. The whole movement grew without the generosity of kings and queens and Pashas of our time.
It was His people´s movement. Some disciple bought the house, others contributed for the furniture. Brick after brick, it was based on the love of disciples towards the Master. When almost all the ashrams and churches and temples have no entrance fee in India, to have the 10 Rupees entry and than another 10 rupees for His lecture became continuous news at the time in the Master´s home country.
However it meant that in Janaury 1990, 20 rupees per day were the charges to have a complete day drenched in the energy of Buddhafield. This amount has now increased 35 times in 20 years.
Please correct me, if I am wrong: The fundamental rule of thumb when Osho was alive was that basic facilities will be provided at COST PRICE. Cost price was not just relevant about the entrance charges – but also His literature was sold at cost price. The same was true about the basic food in the Ashram canteens and the Robes.
Deluxe prices were supposed to be charged on luxury products. For example therapies and sessions. Multiversity therapy groups had the same price structure as in the west and the best part was that all the therapists were sharing their expertise free of cost. Therefore full revenue was going into the ashram account. Literally a load of money used to go everyday into the bank. Now, in spite of exuberant price rises, it is only a brief case.
I think in this model, compassion was married to pragmatism. Even for group leaders it was a win/win situation. They were getting exposure before a multitude of people and enhancing their brand value for the real world.
The way I have figured all this was when working as a Hindi typist for 6 of the inner circle members from 1990-1993, Osho was so clear not just about Pune but about the people leading His meditation camps. They were not supposed to charge any money for their facilitating work other than the travelling expenses. Food and accommodation is not even mentioned. Guests are received with utter thank fullness.
The main point is not to create a business out of meditation. Mix money with meditation and it becomes a fodder for the priests. We all know what priests were in the eyes of OSHO. Let’s return to the money model that Osho laid down when he was in the body.
Shantam
the rich will make temples for osho
what shall i
a poor man
do?
my legs are pillars
the body the shrine
the head a cupola
of gold
listen
things standing shall fall
but the moving ever shall stay
unfortunatily our disscussions do not move anything in 17 koregaon park. resort is having wrost behaviour ever towards osho lovers and towards freedom of sannyasins
nobody is there to listen anything anymore from us
when you reached to welcome center or participate multiversity , resort will hand over you list of GARBAGE rules which means MY WAY OR HIGH WAY
now anyone can tell me how you can meditate when you are given thousands of rules to follow
do not get me wrong , some rules are ok to manage the place and orgnise it , but tha is not the case
next article i will try to write garbage rulees imposed on sannyasins
Gone are the days of Budhha at Pune Ashram. Now situation are altogather different – from Ashram to Resport.
Master has come in the heart of disciples from Pune. Let us enjoy inside then visiting Pune. Administrators does not understand our psyche, our love for the Master, being Pune Ashram as our Pilgrimate.
In depth, in our Blood, Bone and Marrow is Master and definitely we would like to visit to the place of our Master but it pains because of Tariff from Rs. 5 + 5 to Rs.700 from Lao Tse Hall to A/c Resort Hall. Alas, Administrators could understand and could see our tears without any noise.
Love to all.
It is Pilgrimage….. (Sorry for mis-spelling in my above msg)
how to run it?
first of all,alcohol as the drug of choice has gotta go…
check it.
in pune 1 the vast majority of people showed up because they had taken LSD and that put them on the vibe,on the path,whatever you call it.
they turned on tuned in and dropped their pants….
lots of satoris…
probably mostly flashbacks
people still cant stop going on about how much fun it was.
god got provoked,hook,line and sinker.
then people straightened up on the ranch.
became workaholics.
hippies became yuppies.
it just couldn`t last.
people are still moaning about it.
back in pune 2 the global E thing was kicking in with sannyasins at the top of the wave.
a huge percentage of the pune2 clientele was loved-up and buzzin 86-90s.
with the captain in his control-room-full-of-mirrors puffing away on his pipe
,talking about how the world`s just made of nitrogen and hydrogen,
how governments should chill about drugs
and how relaxing it was not having to pretend to be enlightened…
seeing om signs on the wall…
ahh yeah….
after he moved on,the ravers and pot-smokers got moved on too….
now its just the boozers and business guys left,
cutting their deals in the bar and by the pool,flashing their wedges and pulling vacant-looking oriental chicks,while they keep raising the admission fee for a middle of the road copy of a show that went out of style years ago…
yawn.
abhay,the water supply needs sorting for sure.
a few thousand micrograms of LSD and some large spoonfuls of MDMA would be a start…
so now its just the boozers and their investment opportuniies on one side,then outside the city walls its a hodge-podge of latter-day neo-hindus who are anti-alcohol or spend their time having afternoon tea with the feds and talking about the need for discipline.
unless some of these idiots,walking past osho`s samadhi,past his tripping room dont some day get his message and start necking some class A`s
this cult is heading for oblivion double time.
or even worse,becoming a religion.
urggghh…
and that`s a prophecy.
Once upon a distant Pune
a beautiful loving family came into being
the sannyas crew that sprouted seeds
and one by one Osho’s call was heard
A love-made choice to always stay,
To be there till our dying day
It was a good journey
laughter reigned supreme
But as the years and decades now pass
there are too many weeds
Please pull them one by one
so that the flowers may bloom
love, life, laughter
is yours hearafter
Over and over again I trust
To take His word and to test it’s truth each and every day
I am thankful one hundtred fold
Dazzled by His Blessings
I continue on my way
Bless all of you
Well expressed Kartar.
And while reading your comment, following song is playing.
The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.
Hundred thousands angels for His people-Our brothers and sisters, lovers and beloveds (Without doubt for Jayesh and Amrito too)
hey frank, I haven’t certainly taken statistical tests on sannyasins from 1970 to 1990, but I have met quite a few who didn’t have any history with LSD, and yet, still felt a certain “magic” in the air while Osho was in the body.
I’m sure tho that critics who will read your comment, will publish it in some encylopedia of cult fiction and what not. Infact, I remember reading about Osho and nitrious oxide in a critical book which sourced SannyasNews itself!
But are you really going to just “stop” at your conclusion that everyone was/is on some sort of “drugs”, including Osho himself?
I’ve certainly felt like I was on drugs during meditation retreats and camps, and it was more intoxicating actually. However, a chemical never touched me–so apart from your hypothesis that even Osho was some sort of drug addict–i can say that doing Osho’s meditations have steared me pretty clear of drugs. Whether thats irony, or mis-diagnosis on the part of historians like yourself is the question.
I personally just feel like Osho, for what He contributed, deserves a bit more respect than his own sannyasins portraying him to the world as a nitrious sniffing old man (which has never been conclusively proven apart from medicinal usage).
Very cool Shantam Prem.
Amrito you innocently say no chemical touched you, and you were experiencing mind-altering temptations. Did you drink the water?
Frank, please explain what the difference is between oblivion and religion.
Shantam, Frank obscurely points out the key to your quandary. What was Osho’s role in keeping the prices at cost for basic amenities in Pune 1 Ashram? What you have outlined is to me a very sensible idea for bringing together people from difference financial backgrounds. The issue is, was this Osho’s idea and influence or was it a bunch of sensible hippies? I have heard that The Ranch had an exclusive pricing structure – you had to be pretty darn rich to hang out there for anything other than short term. Pune 2 with Osho, and Pune Ashram without, seemed to have some sort of balanced price structure. The Resort seems to be more in line with The Ranch – perhaps in more ways than just this. The key is what was Osho’s influence, if any? Did Osho set down any relevant guidelines for the Inner-Circle on this matter?
Osho has a clearly stated position with respect to his books – at cost price and made of a lasting quality (hard-cover). This position has been ignored by team management Pune and Osho International Foundation. Did Osho also have a similarly stated position with respect to other products and services (as you seem to indicate)?
amrito.
i am a “historian”,now?
the insults get worse..?
look,i would n`t recognise a “hypothesis” if i had one stuck in me underpants.
play the game of black versus white if you like.
but i will wager that it will always be a draw.
abhay,
oblivion and religion?
they rhyme.
i mean white versus black.
oh,whats the difference anyway?
Abhay,
When one is really in love with someone, it is a natural instinct to know the past of that person too. To come in touch with a master like Osho is a happening much bigger and vast.
About Poona one and Rajneeshpuram, i know only from the history but Poona two phase, from the day Osho touched the 17, Koregaon Park, i have lived and seen the events unfolding.
Even though i was and i am, one of the thousands disciples available at that time and will feel myself blessed in the sense, that i have not been part of any “Tribe” there and hence there is no pressure to stand for one particular interpretation and version.
Once i heard from a sacked inner circle member, ” Not a chair moves in the ashram without the permission of jayseh”.
Similarly, Even though Osho has joked many times that a casual visitor at the ashram knows more about the place than Him. He knows only the path from His room till Buddha Hall.
Still..every programme happening there was chalked out under His observation. If something happens second time, it means it is approved by Osho. So simple is the rule of the thumb. He has many secretaries and ashram campus was the domain complete under His “control-less control.”
So for example, if in sannyas celebration, the team sits in white and others in Maroon, weeks after weeks, months after months, it means Osho has liked it.
If big candles are placed at the four corners, it also means, He has approved the new addition.
This i can not say, whether He was always giving suggestions or His people were bringing the ideas before Him and He was adding them.
One thing is very clear, ” He has his fingers on the pulse and every change happened during His life time was for more and more refinement.
And His present trustees; they are behaving like Bulls in the China shop.
In the last months, Osho wanted to take us beyond the idea of commune as it was not practical on many levels and that idea was working efficiently till 1999.
Vasectomy happened afterwards.
May be few will be surprise to know that many western sannyasins purchased flats after 1990. The prophecy kind of words were looking sure shot that soon sannyasins will be the main occupants of Koregaon park. New business of storage poped up, as most of us were leaving behind the trunks.
Go to the real world, work and share the energy with the world and come back.
And without any prejudice, i will not hesitant to say that when things have gone so muddy and everybody is singing their tune, in my eyes only Neelam´s version will stand the scrutiny of the time.
She has shown her metal. And also she is one of the 21 members, who has worked under immense pressure without loosing the grace. Imagine that her companion and fellow inner cirlce member and ashram incharge was knocked out by the Jayesh group and still she remained doing her work without bringing the personal pain and grudge.
The basic amnesties at COST PRICE was His idea. I can explain this with many anecdotes. Similarly DHARAMSHALA
(the abode where a seeker stays overnight) was His idea. it is ingrained in the religious history of all the cultures.
Guest house and Dharamshala are so different from each other as love and liking, Loneliness and aloneness.
The main who has spend His whole life by refining the words, what words His trustees are adding in our vocabulary?
Services at cost price, even if 0.01% is not His idea, there is no harm to add this in His ideas the way Osho has mentioned many times the story of Buddha, how he flew the fly away.
Main point is Osho wanted to touch the heart and soul of each and every segment of human population, not just in His home country but around the globe, and all this was done with utter compassion.
We all have heard Him saying that master is like a potter, from one hand he holds from inside and with other he hits to give the shape and than to put in the fire exactly at the right temperature.
whether one person comes in the ashram or one million, We MUST run the place, 17, Koregaon Park, Pune with the same spirit as He has shown from His foot prints.
The changes according to the time and circumstances are always required. Only a mad driver will drive straight when it is needed to take turn on the curves.
I am not that fanatic to fight for some kind of “Shariat Law”.
Being drugged by His spirit, basic and simple honesty is asked for.
kartar, It is very nice what you wrote above about seeds and weeds, i love it , it is true .we need to pull weed one by one. from 17 koregaon park, lets start with ma sadhana or ma ghata . ( they are hurting osho lovers way too much by imposing their ideas on them and not osho,s ideas
it will hard to pull them all together. so one by one is good idea .
let me ask you one question my fellow travellers
how about creating a new osho commune somewhere , and be careful from very begining and focus on seeds and flowers to grow and blossem.
do you see some new osho commune 24k gold somewhere in the world rising in our life time.
I have strong feeling that soon we will see osho;s work is going to take new direction and very positive one.
i believe that what happened in pune in last years is coming to full stop sonner or later , that can be turning point for all osho lovers.
please feel free to comment on this and feel free to hit me if i am in deep sleep
thanks to all of you joining ha
do you ever get the impression that the resort/non-resort thing reflects the world at large?
the resort is the modern,capitalist,growth driven rational dream of the modern world that treats tradition like a plague
versus those against,
who hark to the past in a golden age kind of way,when bhagwan was giving sannyas,energy darshan,mala,robes and singsong,meditation camps..
before life got complicated with the bogeys of the ranch and beyond…..
it seems a kind of retreat into childhood of the sannyas movement,like the fundamentalism of all persuasion.
unwanted history is ignored,repressed.
they say “stay in the present,swami”,whilst themselves dressing up in the imagined problem free past.
they cling to “positivity” like rats on a sinking ship.
they are a disparate group,plenty of disagreements but unite against the common enemy.
the resort try actively to destroy superstition and tradition.
the robe-ists extol tradition and feel their age-old values marginalised by the one-way march of modernity.
even down to
“they knocked down our temple because they dont nderstand the “energy” of marble,and they drink booze,too…boohoo..”
sound familiar?
the trad purist guys with beards and headgear and discipline
versus
the modernity-pushing scientific rationalists with the power
thou art that……..
we are the world
trying to transcend the world
we become a parody of it.
that could be the point.
or maybe we should just nobble the shahs at the resort
and stick in our own ayatollahs?
you nailed it there frank, on the major point of the continuing rolling dialectics of this whole drama — traditionalism vs. modernism, realities vs. mirror images, and so on.
keep in mind the possibility and potential of the myriad ways of the ‘beyond’ — Tertium Organum, The Fourth Way, The Fifth Dimension, The Sixth Possibility, The Seventh Heaven, the 8th, 9th, 10th, and …… on and on. Why not?
right on oshobob.
drama is the key word.
having been fully immersed in all the hindu/buddhist/taoist etc stuff for so long,everybody involved here must surely know that everyone playing their part in this story is really “god” or”brahman” just pretending to not be god,so god gets to put him/herself about the universe a bit…
and having disagreements about marble,about the colour black,alcohol or nitrogen or about how the rest of the dream should run before we all wake up,is just a cosmic play,for no reason at all really…..
but pretending it`s real is such fun……
Quote: The people who are the current custodians of His work.
As far as that nonsense goes I am definately living on another planet.
When the master dies the priests and politicians move in.
Osho’s work? His work was with the people who surrounded and loved him….on levels that moved from the purely human to the divine. So many times he told us the message was the space between the words…a message that can only be understood in silence. It was a living transmission that covers the planet. A vibe that is spread by the ones who came close to him. In that sense the master’s rebellious spirit lives on. Where? In the hearts of those who were touched by him.
Now we have custodians. Well,,,you won’t take me into that custody, and I know a lot of sanyassins who feel the same way.
The master said that he would destroy everyone’s ideas of how an enlightened man should behave. For once, he was not joking. Now the fools have arrived and they want to have custodians of his work. That really is a joke, not quite as bad as some of the ones Osho told, but just about.
Ha-ha-ha. Custodians of his work!!!!
the custodians
need a few
custod pies in the original face
for sure
this group is in Haiti doing relief work
http://www.amurt.us/
and a interesting read of the founders history
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ananda_Marga
““they knocked down our temple because they dont nderstand the “energy” of marble,and they drink booze,too…boohoo..” ”
Haha, good point there Frank.
Here’s the latest promotional video from the resort:
The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.
I’m certainly against the notion of those who want to democratically elect officials in the resort, change the management, the rules etc…they have moved to a point of a no return, which may be best according to the powers that be.
The diversity of Osho’s work yet will still exist with different groups of people. It will be unfortunate if these groups eventually become *sects* and start proclaiming their *way* as the only “osho” way.
Ahh…what a mishmash, but…really? Do I even have to give a shit or a “rats ass” about who does what with their own torch?
Wasn’t Osho eventually about revealing one’s own reflection in the mirror and having *freedom* of one’s own life?
Ahhh, I think Shantam, we all need to just chill out a little bit.
Good clip Amrito. Reminds me of my brief days in marketing. Coca Cola is so popular cause it does not sell the product itself – but the lifestyle that goes along with the product.
The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.
Something similar to what the Resort has – a product with a lifestyle attached. Nice marketing.
OshoBob and Frank, it is nice to make sweeping and prestigious divisions. Modernity versus tradition is not what is happening here. The first battle line that were drawn in this saga was between JA & Gang and the Hollywood Mystics. The Hollywood Mystics do not fit your generalisation. Also, there were a number of individual original Inner-Circle members that have left in what I would say is quiet protest. These people also do not fit your broad brush strokes. As for the Delhi Devotees, I also disagree. The Delhi Devotees have a strong focus on doing Osho’s ‘scientific’ meditations and meditative therapies – Osho therapies are not wayward accumulations of new-age psychodrama and babble; they are pure and simple and do not need the ego of a unqualified and egoistic therapist to guide their followers astray. And if you read into JA & Gang, they are very much into calling on ancient religious fervour when the need arises: delete the Master when you do not need him, and worship him when you do. It is all on a whim and a prayer….or not.
Amrito the same goes for you – calling it all a mish-mash is as good as saying you haven’t a clue what is going on. It is called the bluff of the ignorant and the blind.
You folks call things black and white or shades of grey when this drama is in vivid colour.
Amrito this is not about any person or group of persons forming a certain approach that they say reflects Osho. Anyone can (and many will) do that. Some of these people will be fake-gurus, while others will be the real deal. That will go on happening, and it is up to marketing, customer intelligence etc to determine how that pans out.
The issue is that Osho specifically created something, left it as his legacy, and left some people to take care of this legacy. They were to ensure for example that his meditations and meditative therapies are carried out as per his instruction – nor more no less. It is about that his words reach people as he has uttered them, and with the finest of quality. It is about respecting his request to put his ashes under his bed for people to come and meditate there. Osho left a legacy. Another great Master may come and leave a legacy just like Osho’s – similar yet different. Such a Master may even say they are refining Osho’s vision. That is fine, but even such a great Master cannot alter what Osho left as his legacy.
Of course now we have religious hacks equipped with financial trickery and deceptive marketing combining to try to refine, alter, maim, and destroy his legacy. The deception point is that all this is being done under the guise of the collective that Osho left with the authority to take care of his legacy: the Inner-Circle, Osho International Foundation, and Team Management Pune. This situation is not a mish-mash, and nor does it fit within the idealistic division of Frank the Frank. Osho created something that has clear content and boundaries, and he left instructions on how this be taken care of. These instructions or wishes have been ignored in the spirit of free enterprise, egoistic expansion, insane arrogance, and endless spiritual deceit.
Yahoo
Abhay
Here is my take of the latest promotional video from the Resort. You can accept it as my official job application as Resort marketing, deceiving and hypnotising manager.
It is notable that the Osho Teerth stream features in the latest ploy in hypnotic deception. This section under the care of the Resort has been in a state of neglect for a number of years. As was noted in SannyasNews recently (September), the local Ward officer had been trying to get the Resort to clean the rubbish from the stream – so that water would not become dammed and cause upstream flooding. Local residents upstream of OshoTeerth experienced flooding in the most recent monsoon. Of course those who look at the latest feature film only see the beautiful image of a pristine natural stream surrounded by lush gardens. This is an utter fabrication. Of course I have stated that the Resorts water – which interestingly enough in part comes from a water table under the stream (local sewer) – is similarly in a state of considerable neglect.
In the case of the OshoTeerth stream, the Resort has clearly been guilty of deception, and has clearly caused significant negative impact to the surrounding community (knee deep flooding of houses). If you click on Osho.com or, if you listen to the tour guide, or if you believe the management team, you would have no knowledge of such things. You probably would say that such an accusation is a fabrication and a terribly lie. Perhaps the Resort has (temporarily) cleaned the stream, however last time I visited it was full of rubbish and a filthy stench. Perhaps the local ward officer took a bribe from the local community, and the flooding that he warned of never happened. I wonder who is bribing who. The money spent on deceptive advertising is a bribe to many unsuspecting and innocent minds.
What other lies and deceptions are contained within the latest marketing stunt, and within the Resort? Is it just two lies, or is it that they just like to lie about water and nothing else? If you asked the management team if they are lying about water related issues what do you think their response would be? What about if you asked the team if there was anything else that they were lying about? Do you think that they will tell you the truth. If they say there are bad people trying to discredit them, and they themselves are good people creating an oasis in heaven, on what grounds do you have to believe them? What do you think the local residents who experienced an overflowing sewer coming into their houses thought? Do you think they were thankful to the Resort for providing them with a little slice of heaven? What if the management team stood confidently and proudly, and extolled of an unfolding and beautiful spiritual oasis, and all this with nice honest smiles and maybe even a big Osho hug. Is it just that you are then a recipient of a mammoth sweet lie? If so, are not the sweet lies the most bitter of all?
Yahoo
Abhay
When I was in the Resort in ’90, entrance plus White Robe cost 20rp, about £0.7 at the contemporary exchange rate. Now entrance, the last time I calculated, was about £8.
However the UK retail price index has almost doubled in those twenty years. When I checked £8 today was equivalent to about £4.5 at ’90 prices.
So for a UK resident prices have increased about six times, ie 4.5/0.7, in “real” terms, from what was a dirt cheap level. Someone has to pay for the massive improvements in the 90s, so maybe we are still paying “cost price.”
PS I should have said “dirt cheap level for a Westerner.” I am sure the prices in ’90 were not dirt cheap for Indians.
“egoistic expansion,insane arrogance and endless spiritual deceit”
abhay,that`s it.
in the deepest hard-core hindu vision,which i`m shoulder to shoulder with,that`s what “god” or “brahma”does….
he/she/it moves from limitless formless sludge into just what you describe: “egoistic expansion,insane arrogance and endless spiritual deceit”
he/she/it even manages to deceive him/herself into thiking that he/she is not god at all,and has to then become god.
that`s the leela.
the only game in town.
osho!
no problem.
and the guys who lobbed you out of the resort.
say “egoistic expansion,inane arrogance and endless spiritual deciet”to them and they will say:”oh,you mean that guy abhay,yeah right….”
see? they recognise your true nature all the way.
like you see theirs.
namaste ,baba…
give these guys a break man.
who would you be without them?
they have given you a golden opportunity to be angry and self assertive in a way where you feel completely validated and in the right.
that`s a good gift.
a lucky break.
not everybody gets that.
Frank, have you been to ashram or resort?
I think it is not a bad idea, infact it is very modren, chic idea to ask someone about His/her facebook identity.
The fact is vineyards in winter look dream like to those foxes, who were feeling the sourness of grapes.
and also when a big store fails it gives self employment to many small entrepreneurs, in the end every thing is good, perfect and the way it should be.
Even those who treat tradition as plague don´t feel rose smell when they bring their trousers to the knees.
Those who want to be free from the burden of the past, first change the saying, ” Might is right”.
“The people who are the current custodians of His work.”
Lokesh, may be you can see this as any writer´s liberty to use words to paint a certain kind of picture to convey something.
When tissue papers are not available, we all use toilet paper too, to clean the running nose!
“When I was in the Resort in ‘90, entrance plus White Robe cost 20rp”-Alok
and what was your last amount as entry chagre, if you have ever visited the place again?
Though Frank you obviously live permanently in the other world of divine truth, you also happen to live in this mundane world of nuts and bolts and earthly truths. Forgive me for bringing you back to your mundane origins, but this world also has its own rights and wrongs and truths. When I assert my angry authority as you so correctly and aptly describe, I am either right or wrong in what I assert. In this sense it is not a leela and nor is it a game.
When I was working with the consulting microbiologist at the resort, I was involved with laboratory testing of food and water samples. When a test came back showing evidence of certain microbial contamination (whether in the food or water) this test has a certain truth – assuming no external factors created a false reading. Sure the Gang will tell you that the water is clean, the food is free of nasties, and that the food is all organic (and of course from its own farm). However I state the opposite, and I base my decision on clear facts, including some from a controlled laboratory environment. Of course you do not know if I am just making this up because I enjoy feeling angry and validated, and did not appreciate getting kicked out. Accepting this, it is either the case that I am right in what I assert or the Gang is right in what they assert.
If you go to the Resort and drink the water and get amoebas or typhoid or cholera or whatever, when you are squatting on you little toilet back at your grotty little share-flat, and spraying the walls with you pungent excrement, this has a certain reality of its own. In the same way the filling of people’s homes with filthy water upstream of the blocked OshoTeerth sewer also has its own reality.
You say the Gang who booted me out provides for me a validation and a defining sense of being right. That may be the case, however you misunderstand the play. The Gang is in the wrong, and hence the opposite gets created – like all oppression creates rebellion. My being right and in my power is not important. What is important is the arising of the opposition to violence and oppression. This is what is important in the leela.
Frank you say I got a lucky break because I get to feel validated and in the right. The question is not whether I feel a certain way or not. The question is whether or not what I say is valid, and whether or not I am right. My feelings do not come into it.
Your argument is based on inaction and disconnect between this mundane world and the divine. Might I suggest you go to China to espouse your wisdom. The regime there is good at preaching high ideals and creating earthly sewers.
I think, Frank the Frank, that you have spent too long showering in the divine, and need to come back to this mundane and boring planet for a little reality check.
Yahoo
Abhay
http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/2010/01/14/israel-guru/vergewaltigung-inzest-harem.html
May be someone can tell, whether this Holy Bull is from the school of Osho or one of another million guru from Incredible India.
After seeing this man, i am not surprise why after Russia Isarel has become the second home to all the therapists and Spiritual sex addicts.
abhay,you say:
“when you are squatting on your little toilet back at your grotty little share flat,and spraying the walls with your pungent excrement,this has a certain realty of its own”
you make a very interesting point there,from a scientific and philosophical angle, both.
i will conduct some rigorous scientific experiments to verify this acute observation of yours.
you are probably right,as usual.
From osho.com entrance now is 700 rupees equivalent to £9.5 (not £8 as I thought)
Well, 700 Rupees is $15 in US moolah. I don’t know what you get for this, but if it is an entrance fee to a beautiful, clean grounds with all the visitors roaming about, opportunity to browse through the Osho bookstore, and all the Osho Active Meditations included (Dynamic, Kundalini, Nadabrama, Nataraj, etc.), and also seeing a video of Osho in the evening in the Pyramid with everyone else there…I think that’s a reasonable price. That’s not being gouged by any stretch. People have flown in from all over the world, at the cost of thousands of dollars. If they don’t have 15 bucks to plunk down on the table to enter for a few days or weeks, then they did their math wrong before leaving home.
As for the Indians, they are charged less, I believe, and that’s fair too, with the lower value of the Rupee compared to most outside currencies.
I would presume that in the old days (’74-’90), the low set entrance fee was meant just to keep out the curious locals, who had no real interest in Osho’s work. For the foreigners, it was a non-issue, and that’s probably the case today too.
Bob wrote : “Well, 700 Rupees is $15 in US moolah. I don’t know what you get for this, but if it is an entrance fee to a beautiful, clean grounds with all the visitors roaming about, opportunity to browse through the Osho bookstore, and all the Osho Active Meditations included (Dynamic, Kundalini, Nadabrama, Nataraj, etc.), and also seeing a video of Osho in the evening in the Pyramid with everyone else there…I think that’s a reasonable price.”
Yes it is excellent value. The going rate for a single Osho meditation, one hour, in London, is £7 to £10. Same as what you pay for a whole day in Pune.
One problem in the past was that quite a few Western people were “joining Osho” as a form of social security. If you could scrape together the money for the flight you could live for almost nothing in the Pune cos if you worked in the ashram you got a food pass and free entry. Of course this was a lot more fun than an English winter “on the social.”
I think one reason why entry prices were increased was to deter people who wished to use sannyas as a form of social security, but had no interest in meditation.
Now, Abhay and frank are in the ring for a few rounds — really, it all comes down to a one-on-one clash in the end for people…maybe that’s why the one man/one woman-marriage/relationship became so prominent in all cultures….eyeball to eyeball in the crucible of love and truth…
Abhay coins some new words…the Hollywood Mystics and the Delhi Devotees…sounds like an NBA expansion team set-up…yeah, I’d wouldn’t mind seeing the Hollywood Mystics take on the LA Lakers — Ma Avirbhava driving to hoop against Kobe Bryant, that would be a sight to see… I’ll pay 15 bucks for a ticket.
And Abhay, you are piquing my interest more and more…I’m thinking along the lines of the the persona mask that we were discussing awhile back, where a person talks and acts in a way that is actually contradictary to their real personality…the parallel universe thing….
Though you come across as a scientific type, with the lab results and all, methinks you could be something else. Maybe a lawyer.
Your scientific methodology that you use to come to your factual conclusions is a bit suspect. For example, you say you were there with the consulting microbiologist when “evidence of a certain microbial contamination” was found in the water and food. Well, every water sample has microbial contamination, even the freshest spring water or glacier snow melt. It doesn’t mean it’s unfit to drink or cook with. Every human being’s intestinal flora is teeming with microbial populations — it’s natural. In fact, if you didn’t have these millions of microbes, bacteria, yeast, etc., you would die. They break down the food you eat into simple chemical elements that your body can assimilate. Long live the Microbes!
The purest air you breathe is saturated with microscopic life. There are so many yeast cells in the air, in fact, that if you leave out some fruit or grain long enough, it will start to turn to alcohol brew. That’s how booze was discovered in the first place. Even in the purest mountain air like Tibet thousands of years ago.
Your photo on your blog shows you as a young man, maybe in his 30′s. But your knowledge of the world of Osho and your experience in the Pune ashram belies that image. You may be a woman, and double the age that you project. Your knowledge of Ma Mukta’s owning the Osho Samadhi in Pune, if correct, would be quite insider stuff, I would think.
You ply an image of a very no-nonsense, ‘just the facts m’am” straight-shooter, but you could very well be an emotional, moody romantic of some sort. I once heard someone (an LA lawyer) define a ‘lawyer’ as a neurotic schizophrenic who has found a way to make a living while keeping his personality defects intact.
Like I say, I’ve never heard any complaints from anyone else about the water situation at the Resort, so in a way, you come across on this issue like the crackpot type guy that stands outside the supermarket doors and hands out leaflets, promoting his personal crusade and vendetta against something that no one else sees. As I said to you before, I think you have it in for the OIF boys, and the Pune Management crew. They may even be a touch of anti-male feminism in your March for Potable Purity…
And to end, Abhay, your suggestion to frank that he
“go to China to espouse your wisdom. The regime there is good at preaching high ideals and creating earthly sewers,” is simply a ridiculous, China-bashing
criticism that is laughable. Creating earthly sewers is the best thing you can do for public hygiene and good clean water. You forget your environmental crusade so quickly, my friend. Have you ever been to China? The practical advances the Chinese people, guided by their government, have made in the last 60 years is unprecedented in the history of mankind. Including Tibet, which has made massive strides forward since the advent of Chinese communism and all of the everyday quality of life reality advances that have come with it.
It is maybe you Abhay, who are in need of an immediate reality check.
Long live Chairman Mao !
Ten Thousand Years for Kim Song-il !
Ho, Ho, Ho Chi Minh, NLF is gonna win ! (and they did).
Osho´s Bob, your post deseves clapping.
AlokJohn, just a point about your maths. The idea of creating a “real” value by discounting your currency by your countries inflation rate, whilst ignoring the Indian inflation rate over that period, is utterly useless.
OshoBob you are very inviting. My photo on my blog? Have you checked lately? The point is things change.
As for the microbial contamination, if I were working in a hygiene lab with a consulting microbiologist, and a test came up positive, do you think we were testing for a harmless little friendly microbe. Of course the test would be for a certain type of microbe that is potentially harmful to human health, and of course it would require a toxicity level to be met in order to give a positive reading. Such a response on your behalf indicates one thing. It indicates that you think that I and the consulting microbiologist are lacking in any common sense. I wonder who is lacking here?
Why did you make such a stupid blunder? It is because you have some wisdom you want to share, and the need to share it. Unfortunately your wisdom is irrelevant, and the outcome is to wrongly attack and misinterpret what I have said.
The financial mathematicians here need to get their eyes of their calculators and have a look at the world. Even before the global financial blast-out, for a lot of travellers to the East, the saving up for the airfare was a major task. With Asia being relatively cheap, it meant that for many people they could spend a long time in there. Are all seekers that spend months and maybe years looking deeply for the lost truth actually doll-bludging social-security suckers? Of course the world GDP would be much higher under the scheme of just a few weeks in India, and then back to the hard grind.
What about people like me who, as OshoBob astutely points out, have serious personality disorders. Rather than going to some nut-case shrink and having an official tag as being permanently mentally ill-equipped, and spending many years receiving social security as a ward of the state, we can do a bit of hard work digging holes on a highway, and then head to Asia for six months or more. I am of the view that for the mentally and emotionally challenged like me, many years of peering deeply into the soul is what is required to genuinely and authentically bring about real inner change and transformation.
Perhaps real change comes from ignoring yourself 23 hours a day, and then spending your daily savings on a one hour Osho meditation. I do not think it is that simple.
As far as your theory of me is concerned….I am a delirious and dangerous psychotic psychopath, hell-bent on destruction and decadence of any and all varieties. Not sure if that fits with your theory. From your vast knowledge of mind theory, you also might object that psychopaths are not psychotics. Well some are!
I should mention here that I am speaking as the Westerner I am. It can easily take an Indian sannyasin more time to travel to Pune by train than it would for me to fly to India. The financial outlays can also be similar, as with the time needed to transform the swamp into a pristine pond.
OshoBob how much have you researched about China? I always thought you were a spy, and now I know where from. Have you researched the manner in which China invaded and occupied Tibet? Did you know your boss (big Hu) was the governor of Tibet during the second uprising, and consequent second brutal crushing? Yes your boss, possibly soon to be the most powerful man in the world, has a very interesting resume including managing ruthless military invasion. Did you also know that your blessed communist party has an interesting theory regarding its borders. This is in part the reason why an invasion of Tibet can be justified. For the communist party, its borders actually extend far beyond the line which the rest of the world considers to be China. It is an interesting theory worthy of more study. As far as advances in the betterment of society go, I suppose the Cultural Revolution was a great success in your eyes? Also, you fail to point out that although for a couple of decades the development really helped a lot of people reach a better standard of living, in the last twenty years the majority of this development has only reached the narrow group of powerful elites. Did you notice that a popular uprising nearly occurred in China during the global financial blast-out? The masses in China are deeply unsatisfied because the so called advances no longer reach them. If it were not for China pumping in a fair stack of its booty into kick-starting its economy, I would say there would have been a good chance of civil war (at least serious levels of civil unrest – more than the daily protests all across China).
Finally OshoBob, you misunderstand an important requirement for a sewer: you don’t need a sewer if you got no shit!
Long live all brutal dictators who conquer with violence and rule by fear. Long live Adolf Hateler, Kim jong-very Ill, Robert the Mugger-abe, big Hu and the Chinese Communist Party, and long live JA & the Gang. May all idiots follow their path and come to know their own stupidity for doing so through the magic wand of tyranny, ignorance, and fascism.
Yahoo
Abhay
it will be unfair not to clap for Abhay too.
Basically, this small group of writers and also readers at sannyasnews represents the diversity of sannyas Jungle.
Without any of them, some color will be missing.
Some one creates the thread and other join in to enrich the discussion.
This kind of unity in diversity is India´s greatest contribution and Osho being the torch bearer of her soul has created this miracle!
Than enter the English and Canadian Mind…naturally they have enriched too, but at a very heavy cost… It is like Chinese goods manufacturers also playing the Tibetan monks.
If we tell to children, a good night story, “Once there was a Master. He had thousands of disciples. After His death, two of his main disciples overruled the other opinions and took the responsibilty of the expansion of His work.”
I am sure almost all of the children will ask, ” But where is the story? where is the punch line? what is the moral of the story.”
prem abhay zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. What about putting on a new record, what about looking – just a little bit – into urself insted of spewing out these monomanic mega-posts?
Jayesh and Amrito may run the resort in a way u don’t like. Fine, state ur view in a readable, balanced way, but don’t come with wild, pseudo-scientific ‘explanations’ about the a problem that seems to be solely ur own mind-creation and don’t make completely over the top accusations (even in other threads making Jayesh into a double muderer)!
And isn’t it all about u feeling hurt and offended and whatsoever because they didn’t take ur waternonsense serious and actually – very understandable – banned u from the resort?
After the Sheela debacle I remeber Osho clearly stating that the right way was not to swing into the oppsosite, to some completely unreflected anti-authoriterean attitude.
The world does not get better if Jayesh is ousted from Poona, it gets better when u find ur Love and Light within. Until then I feel whoever run the scene in Poona will be met with the same complaining, whinning mentality.
Also all this compairing Jayesh with the worst dictators and so on….as a sannyasin lving in the west, minding (or no-minding) my own business I have actually no dealings with the man. He doesn’t interfere in my life so what is the problem?
shantam, if you tell childrn the story that once there was master and after he left his body two of his servants behave like master and bosses to his loved once , i think child will not be able to sleep whole night . he will wondering why nobody from thousands of other disples raise voice against these two servants.
actually that is true suitation of sannyas world.
many of us every night go to sleep wondering why osho ashram became osho resort……….
i personally wonder sometimes that what was need of resort , they are so many all over world. osho ashram was truely very very rare creation of osho and his lovers to live osho’s vision. Resort howsoeve look technically good and beautiful , it will never have MYSTERY .
Hu, Hu, Hu Jintao
rides the dragon with Chuang and Lao,
While in the White House sits the Dalai Lama,
sipping tea with Prez Obama.
What is the difference between Saddam Hussein and the Dalai Lama? According to big Hu, big D is the Devil himself, so according to me, the answer is nothing.
Big Hu and his propaganda machine (which includes OshoBob) have managed to convince a fair portion of a one billion populace of Chinese nationals that the Dalai Lahma really is the devil. Listening or reading or watching big D, I find it quiet remarkable that this be the case. Perhaps big D really is the Devil, but it is not that blatantly obvious.
Bodhi Heeren, it would appear that you are angry that I did not include you in the list of great tyrants. My humble apologies, and I shall ensure that you are not forgotten next time.
It appears Bodhi Heeren that you have not read my response to your previous outburst. Since you like my short sweet writings, here it is again for your perusal.
Bodhi Heeren you quote a few well know facts and then draw a conclusion about me. It does not follow from Nirvanno’s historically well documented issues anything about me, nor about what I have said in relation to Jayesh. It also does not follow that because Nirvanno has had ongoing serious emotional issues that she necessarily therefore took here own life. This error in thought process is one which you also seem to have taken here. Also let me inform you of a little more in the way of facts and analysis. The issue of Osho’s death was brought up in recent times by Harri Om, not me. Also, from the information that Harri Om brought to light, if there is any investigation into a senior Osho figure being implicated in anything suspicious, it is Amrito rather than Jayesh. I suggest here that you do a little research before you make wildly erroneous and misinformed accusations. Further, Harri Om made the logical point that Osho’s marked decline in health was from the time of his strangely incurable ear infection in Pune 2. He was at the time under the care of his close disciples and not the CIA. It follows therefore that there is reason to consider that if any intentional and malicious harm did come to Osho at the time, that it came from one (or more) of his close disciples.
Bodhi Heeren you quote a few passages from Osho sannyasins and then draw conclusions about me. This is the same warped mentality that Osho sannyasins have used to manipulate both Osho’s words and the Osho movement in general. Jayesh and Amrito and others use and abuse Osho quotes to further their own slant on Osho. Like you, they also draw conclusions that do not follow from this. The use of Osho in this way is an abuse, and reflects a lack of intelligence as well as ill intent. People argue that Jayesh and Amrito are trying to rid the Osho movement of the curse of personality and nostalgia, of the curse of religion rather than religiousness. These people have not delved into the conduct, writings and sayings of Jayesh, Amrito, and others. These people are full of a false and religiously inclined mentality. You might like to call it religious extremism or fundamentalism.
Bodhi Heeren my views of Jayesh are formed from the follow facts. It is a fact that for many years Osho sannyasins drank seriously contamintated ‘drinking’ water during monsoon periods. Knowing the type of serious and potentially life threatening contaminants that pass through the water supply in India, it follows that in all likelihood many many people have become ill, many have become very sick, and yes the potential is also there that some have died. Personally I would put the number at more than two. Also, Jayesh has been sufficiently involved with the resort to conclude that he cannot be said to be uninformed by the people at the coal face – so to speak. So yes Bodhi Heeren I clearly state here that Jayesh has some serious issues about his conduct. Of course he stands not alone.
Yahoo
Abhay
“The world does not get better if Jayesh is ousted from Poona, it gets better when u find ur Love and Light within. Until then I feel whoever run the scene in Poona will be met with the same complaining, whining mentality.”-Bodhi Heeren
It is a fact that few percentage of people always complain.
Be it Clinton, Bush or Obama, few are habitual to complain and whining.
And also to find love and light within…? can someone imagine a day that every body has light and love within; thanks to PHILIPS!
Every organisation where more than one person is involved, a system of check and balance is required for healthy functioning, otherwise the will of stronger one swallow the weaker yet finer beings.
Human creativity has taken a positive turn since countries are being run as a collective responsibility. Even the most powerful man on the earth is also being controlled by the public opinion and the parameters set by the constitution.
The uniqueness of Osho´s contribution will flower thousands fold if ” His people”come in the picture again. and His people are not some illiterate persons from some banana republic who need a translator and interpreter to understand Osho, the words and deeds are so clearly foot printed.
With love and light within, i am not saying put Jayesh in prison and some Mahesh or Dhyanesh run the show.
Osho is vast enough, one or two persons interpretation at the root level is simply against evolution and therefore unitelligent(yet not stupid).
Let Osho´s people evolve a administrative system which is utterly meritorious and which can pass through the fire test of His discourses.
Abhay says,
“Big Hu and his propaganda machine (which includes OshoBob) have managed to convince a fair portion of a one billion populace of Chinese nationals that the Dalai Lahma really is the devil. ”
You continuing lack of accuracy is showing again, Abhay.
To wit:
Though you put the Chinese population at “one billion,” it is actually 1,335,000,000, approximately.
That may seem like quibling to you, but the 335 million Chinese people you off-handedly left out of your numbers is greater than the entire population of the United States, which is the 3rd most populous nation in the world (308 million).
India comes in 2nd at 1,175,000,000, approx.
Not a small thing. I have seen one million people on Chinese National Day in Tiananmen Square in Beijing, and I will tell you, it is mind-boggling. Multiply that by 335, and you can see the enormity of your seemingly small error.
I hope you were a bit more accurate when you were doing your water research work at the Resort.
As to the Chinese people or its government thinking the Dalai Lama is the Devil, that’s a laugh. The Chinese do not, and have never, believed in God or the Devil in their long history. That is a Jewish/Christian/Muslim invention that has no place at all in China, or any in Asian religious thought, for that matter.
But, it is quite possible that the Dalai Lama is just an agent for the Chinese government, as Saddam Hussein was for the American government.
In fact, Osho may very well have used this same very effective technique — design, create, and control your own publicly viewed “enemy.” Then use your media to manipulate the public’s mind about them to your benefit.
It’s a much more successful strategy than to let your enemies arise by themselves, a situation over which you have no control.
All may want to look at the current swirling clashes of Osho’s people in this light. It is surely a fresh perspective, something much needed in this stagnant stalement that we see before us. You know, a benevolent and intelligent guide/king/master may be not that bad of an idea.
OshoBob your unnecessary mathematical accuracy I concede to. Do you know that as I wrote the figure I had a sense that someone was going to pick me up for it.
So you reckon the devil has no place in China. You had better ask big Hu what the heck he was doing using the term then. What is he, some agent of the Vatican?
Last time I went to Pune people thought I was a plant by Jayesh and Amrito. I said to them that obviously I am doing a worse job than I hoped for. Same goes for here.
The planet already has a good king. He lives in Thailand. The queen is also very benevolent. Unfortunately both are growing frail with old age.
Stalemate? I just started playing, am playing a number of hands here, and the deck is new. If JA & Gang can work out who I am exactly, they can have my hands for free, else they can buy them on E-Bay.
Heard the latest news from Osho commune? Some nice workers have been caught stealing more than the equivalent of 300000 rupee over some months from unsuspecting guests. OshoBob I am of the view that the figure is less than 1 billion.
AlokJohn, you better take into account losses on the trip due to theft when you work out your revised figures.
Anyone interested as an ashramite may apply within rather then putting this *façade up as ingeneous idea of cost versus value for money!
Ashram is over! Now the world has Resorte*that can compete with other busnisses around the planet and if not happy join the *Banian tree in *Arambol/Goa/India for *meditation and shamanic *super-nature entry to the world that Osho and other masters of consciousness created!
*Where From?
*Who is IN(?)In case voices that keeps changing!
*Who am I?