Shantam shares his need for a resolution around the issue of the “Inner Circle”
In an earlier Osho Times, it was mentioned as to how many times from 1985 to 89 Osho mentioned the phrase, not to miss His presence – and not to take it for granted either. Something like, I am holding on to this shore only for you, my people, otherwise my boat would have gone long before to the other shore.
In this atmosphere it was sometimes a common discussion among sannyasins at that time, ‘what will happen after Him?’
When Osho did leave his body, and during the Osho white robe brotherhood on 20th January 1990 a packed Buddha Hall heard from Amrito about an INNER CIRCLE of 21 people to continue the temporal work.
These people were hand picked By Osho and they were assigned to look after the expansion of the work. It seems Osho was hundred percent sure that these 21 people will feel honoured to do this work as part of their meditation and any question as to their resignation or any other reason to drop out was not contemplated. In the case of death, remaining members will fill the vacancy with a unanimous choice.
I hope before we reach the day of the 20th leaving the body anniversary of Osho, someone will come forward, preferably a member of the Inner Circle to tell this short history. Some say that 15 of the original members are still alive (though i dont know that for a fact) and a few remain active in the sannyas world, though may not have visited the Resort during the last 10-15 years.
I would like to know why? Was it too heavy a responsibility for you to carry, or was it hindering your journey towards lightness of being, or were you forced to drop this responsibility because it became impossible to perform your share of the work – because some other members were trying to hinder your thoughts and actions?
I think it would be the right time to give Osho’s people a fair history of the inner circle, and why it was found too difficult presumably to forward Osho’s work in the way he had suggested before his death. It will be good to clear the air for those who left, and particularly good for the future of Osho’s work from now on.
Osho did not leave behind, as far as I know any code of silence such that it forbids those concerned talking about this. Or if those concerned feel it is an act of betrayal somehow to those who continue the work, then even saying that would be helpful.
Osho in His whole life spoke about the toughest esoteric questions in most simplified language and always spoke in favour of truth, honesty and integrity. Surely the temporal side of his work also requires such frankness.
It is a very vital question that the Master who spoke just a few months before His death about His charter of Basic human rights; who was in a way lecturing the UNO, the Inner circle of world civilisation, why His own Inner circle seemed to disappear like smoke in just a few years.
Where were intentions, interests and interpretations colliding, if they were? Why could you not adjust, presumably Osho in choosing you had considered this? What were the rocks on the way? Had Osho not taught the method to remove these rocks – the earth mover of meditation?
I want to stop the sort of verbal abuse that occurs when people use the phrase the, ” 21 baboons of the inner circle.” You all seem to have “served” Osho well and for many years when he was alive. Did you feel the temporal arrangement he left in place for after his death were so unworkable? And if so why?
It would be good to hear from someone directly concerned about this.
Who knows Shantam? Sometimes Osho had ideas that were not practicable, not for the present anyway. For example there was going to be a World Academy for the Sciences.
The Indians left because their understanding of Osho’s work differed from Westerners. Some women left because they preferred to teach meditation rather than be managers. So there were just a few men left capable and willing to be managers, quite a tough job really, easily underestimated.
There are a few assumptions here. Isn’t there supposed to be a current 21, and when people left they were replaced? Maybe Anthony Thompson could help here, he seems to know everything! Also maybe he has a list of the original 21, I suspect more than five or six have left the body which seems to be Shantam’s figure. And Anthony do you have a list of the present 21?
Of the originals, yes Shantam you are right, they had all already served Osho’s work well. However there was one “rule” that you do not mention. All decisions were to be unanimous, not majority decisions. In human affiars this is a pretty extreme request and very difficult to fulfil. At the time I remember street wise sannyasins saying that there was one “esoteric” sannyasin on the list, said to have been put there by Osho deliberately, and she would definitely mess up any move towards material madness – if the unanimous decision making were implemented. . Maybe Anthony knows who this was, and what happened to her?
Some have voiced in the past that Osho set this 21 up knowing it would fail and acting as a zen koan to all those involved, which it may well have done.
But Shantam you are right about someone speaking up…. it does seem strange that no-one spoke up. If they are sworn to secrecy, or if that was Osho’s instruction if they ever left… for example Devageet or Anando or Hasya would indeed be interesting to hear from. I believe that Anando still goes to the Resort.
Talking about the night when Amrito read the “well prepared statement” in the Buddha hall – I always wonder, the guru whose entire life was captured on video, why wasn’t his last moments?
Why was his body taken to the burning ghats so fast? I know that Amrito reads out “keep for a short time and take to burning ghats” – but still looks like he has no shock of the master – the most beautiful and beloved person – being gone!
What do others think about this?
Heraclitus, original members of Inner Circle here
http://www.satrakshita.be/inner_circle_members.htm
Thanks Alok, a lot!
I have copeid and paste it here so we can all benefit.
Frankly I never heard of some of them. Now I wonder who that fellow Plotinus was?!
Members of the Inner Circle
A list of the original IC members
Taken from a supplement to the Osho Times International, dated February 1 1990
On April 6 1989, Osho gave instructions for the setting up of a committee to be called “The Inner Circle.” The aim of the committee, he said, was to reach unanimous decisions about the continued functioning and expansion of the commune and his work. “I am tired,” he said, “and I want to retire.”
Over the next few months Osho kept close watch on the workings of the committee members. Eventually he finalised the committee at 21 members, whom he said had been chosen to represent the commune departments and his work. He stressed that the inner workings of the committee were to remain a secret. He also said that the committee is not to be involved in spiritual considerations, but should look to the mundane work, the practical problems of the commune: “The Inner Circle” is not a club to discuss philosophy. It is a pragmatic and practical way to decide things.”
Osho said that when any member dies a new member is to be chosen unanimously by the remaining members.
The 21 members are:
1. Jayesh (chairman)
2. Amrito (vice-chairman)
3. Anando (secretary and medium)
4. Amitabh [Cliff]
5. Anasha
6. Avirbhava
7. Chitten
8. Devageet
9. Garimo
10. Hasya
11. Jayantibhai
12. Kaveesha
13. Mukta the Greek [sic]
14. Neelam
15. Plotinus
16. Prasad
17. Tathagat
18. Turiya
19. Vedant
20. Yogi
21. Zareen
Note:
This list is as noted in the book source, The Rebellious Enlightened Master Osho: Translation of Abridged Edition of Ek Fakkar Messiah, Osho Published in Hindi in Nine Volumes (3600 Pages) by Swami Jnanabheda (translation running to 606 pages, pub in 2006).
inner circle story is very simple and yet very sad
osho choose 21 members to run day to day affriars , but some members could not agree on core issues of commune those days. like multiversity and osho center activities around the world. so group of five american inner circle member left inner circle and settle in sedona, arizona.
they were immidailtiy replaced by sahjanand, parmod, karuna, dheeraj ( tibetan pulsing leader who left his body some years ago) and indian mukesh
so story goes this way. when tathagat was fired from his job as commune incharge , he was replaced by dhyanesh and when neelam was banned , sadhana and devendra replaced her. bottom line is osho’s body was not around when all that happened.
inner circle took some wrong decisions and some distructive decisions , we sanyasins and osho lovers let that happened knowing perfectly that whatever inner circle was doing was not osho would have wanted. we end up now in big mess . neither inner circle exists these and not true sanyas wild life exist in pune . what we have now is amrito and jayesh working like any corprate does in the world . and sanyasins have start to gossips and waste their time like me on these websites. what nobody is trying to understand is it is too late . what is gone can not be fixed . only thingh we can fix is what is left and where we are now.
i tried to stop sanyasins many times to stop throw mud on each other. and stop going too much into inner circle and other politics, but i failed. i have seen sometimes meditators coming to commune and start getting to find out who are running the place and suttle intrest in them arise to be powerful over visitors and osho lovers …………they forget why they join osho on the first place. …………..only man of politics would get into discusstions like that ……….man of meditations will stay from inner circle and other munden activities.
swami rajneesh and lots of other cliam that they are above politics, but deep down they have desire to have power over others…….bottom line is big change is needed the way sanyasins are going these days and whoever try to lead this mess gets into trouble from other sanyasins and osho lovers……..look at shantam, he try to lead something and want to do something , but have you ever noticed, he can not move even inch …jayesh and amrito laugh at our desicussions.
by the way i am very close to all those events and you have to trust me when i write all that……anybody has any question feel free to ask , i would love to reply because this is truely very intresting discussions and i am ready to take any heat or any love from you guys.
come on lets discuss more and continue this hot topic from world of osho
heraclitus, by the way list is allright it is missing one name ..ma shunyo who wrote daimond days with osho.
correct me if i am wrong
Amano,
To read your above post was soothing in the sense that you know the life in Pune from inside and is not hesitant to open your heart.
Sometime not one or two but many whistle blowers are needed to invoke the life above us.
It is my firm conviction that Ashram needs an administrative reforms and the movement needs an oiling mixed with ingredients called integrity, honesty and passion, in the circumstances of today even more as Charismatic Master is not there and WE HIS PEOPLE, need to represent the show on behalf of Him.
Our collective contribution, our rivering can go on changing the inner landscape.
We need people´s intimate involvement , “Make space for my people. Many are on the way”; and yes…many were on the way…
(but Master could not see that people who are on the way are not His people but hundreds of employees of Personal company SODEXO.)
(Sodexo provides a wide range of services that improve the quality of daily life of millions of consumers worldwide: Food services, Facilities Management …)
May be i should write a mail to sodexo, “start providing meditators also on hourly basis”. I am sure they will respond with corporate efficiency.
I am in deep resonance with my beloved Master Osho in this moment. He is beaming down to me this very wish….that Sodexo start initiating people into sannyas. Also the request impressed on me to dispense to you, with the addition of course of my own deep and penetrating understanding and insight into Osho, is that we all wear nice, smart and freshly pressed blue uniforms. We should also wear a new mala which has a picture of the CEO of Sodexo on it. The new movement shall be known henceforth as Oshodexo.
Of course how I attained to channel Osho to you is a secret that I wish to share but cannot for you are all too stupid. However, after your initiation into Oshodexo-hood, you may get a pay rise, and then will in all likelihood have attained to the minimum intelligence level required for me to start sharing the great secret of Oshodexo with you all.
Amano, I am surprised dheeraj ( tibetan pulsing leader who left his body some years ago) was appointed to Inner Circle.
I did Tibetan pulsing in the 90s for a few years. But I came to the conclusion it was just garbage created by Dheeraj to make money. Wasn’t he a criminal on the run?
Amano, sorry I dont know the answer to your question. Shunyo may have had a different name in those days? Bu I imagine someone at Osho world would know. I have never read her book, maybe there is some reference to it in there for those who might have the book?
I was just taking advantage of the list that Alok kindly gave the address for, which looked pretty authentic to me.
Amano do you have a current list, or in your knowledge has the 21 idea simply been abandoned. People in this forum seem to think you may have been quite close to these changes, etc. As far as I know there are 21 sannyasins still currently named as running the mundane affairs of OI. Where’s Anthony or Bob, they might know?
Alok I think that Deeraj made a great deal of money through Tibetan Pulsing outside of the ashram, it was very popular with rich sannyasins for several years. Hence by recruiting him Jayesh/Amrito, etc may have had in mind that he would bring this money inside the fold.
I dont know much about the sodexo story. Is it documented anywhere on one of the other sites, or maybe someone who does know it should write it down here?
It seems real strange that there should be paid labour from a private company that sustains the commune in Pune. For a start, even if they pay their labourers a pittance I am sure the company itself makes very good profits.
Surely it would be better as in the old days to have sannyasin volunteers manning the departments, in return for being fed and looked after by the commune. There was a lot of fun in that and I have happy memories of it.
Heraclitus, Shunyo became Chetana, I think. I think they use Sodexo because they don’t get enough volunteers anymore. Probably easier to use Sodexo than to deal with sannyasins with all their traumas etc
>>>>Probably easier to use Sodexo than to deal with sannyasins with all their traumas etc
I remember fondly the days when when dealing with sannyasins with all their traumas WAS the work.
Heraclitus, it seems strange to me that you, a sannyasin from way back, should be asking me and Prof Tony about the inner workings and people of your religious group. I am not a sannyasin, and neither is TonyZ. Don’t you guys know your own cult, ferchissake?
But, since you seem to be in quest of some living /dying info on the infamous original Inner Circle, from the list you posted here, the only ones that I can recollect to have reportedly died were Cliff (airplane crash in Australia, c. 1996), and Kaveesha (cancer in Sedona, around 2000). All the other names listed seem to be still alive. The ones I never heard of are Plotinus, Anasha, Prasad, Jayantabhai, and Chitten. Maybe they are living or dead — you would have to ask someone who has known them. Anyone here know these people?
All the others are still in earthly circulation, in their known bodies, as far as I know.
I know absolutely nothing about the reformed post- 1990 Inner Circle, that changed over the years, if there even was one. Maybe the whole idea just disintegrated into the wind, and the Canuck Condo salesman and Johnnie Walker/Dr. Zhivago are all that remain in the power/management circle. They would be the ones to know, but alas, they no speak….
For Information’s sake:
Ma Prem Shunyo was given that name by Osho in Uruguay (in 1986). Her previous name was Chetana which she was given in 1976 when she took sannyas. He gave it her after she wrote a question to him (about an experience she had in the morning talk), when she looked up and all she could see was the empty chair and Osho had disappeared, which she found “spooky”!
Shunyo was not one of the 21. In fact at the end of her book,” Diamond Days with Osho” written in 1992 she says “He (Osho) has shown me that the time has come when I no longer need to look for anyone else (but myself) for guidance”.
I think that unless some rebellious sannyasin with more wealth than Jayesh comes along and is willing to “get it on” with the powers that be, either in pune or anywhere else, things aren’t going to change much. The old primal instinct is working here. those who are dominate and those who are submissive. Money and wealth are used as tools to dominate. Unfortunately most people are either too fearful or to lazy to change that way of living. Those wealthy sannyasins since practically the beginning, were very complacent, didn’t want to change things, very lazy. Of course, they were the one’s sitting on top of the pecking order. Even in the sannyas “community” there were/are cliques. I posted a question to Dhanyam last month regarding the two sannyas communties in the Bay area.. one filthy rich and the other.. those who had to work for a living. It was so, back in the ’70′s and ’80′s and still so. Jayesh and amrito have their clique or ass kissers to be more accurate. One would think with all of the advice Osho gave, sannyasins would do all that they could do, to rise above the primitive game playing. Those of us who have some intelligence need to keep up the expose of the sannyas leaders and maybe there won’t be any “religion” created from osho’s teachings and meditations. Keep on challenging and questioning all in “authority”. That’s pretty much all of us lowly sannyasins can do. Where’s Bill Gates when you really need him?
A few years after Osho left the body the Hollywood crowd bailed – apparently that was around 5 people. Then around 2000 the Devotees left. In the next couple of years people like Anando and Mukta (and I think also Shunyo) left. This meant that there was only a few of the original crowd remaining by around 2003-4. I am guessing that there would have been 3 to 5 original members at this point. Let’s say this includes Jayesh, Amrito, Garimo and Zareen. As I understand it, by around 2007, there was actually only 7 or 8 people in the Inner-Circle. This includes Jayesh’s friendly appointments. Then Jayesh rounded up a few more mates, clones, and copycats to get the numbers looking a little more respectable. As people in this post show, as long as the number is around 21, then everything looks nice and people won’t ask so many questions. However I still think there was only a dozen or so people in the circle by 2008-9. Of course I am a banned outsider and so this is just all my outsiders gossip gathered up on paper.
Prem Bubbie you ask where Bill Gates is. Bill Gates is the current JA&Gang that has had the illegitimate monopoly for a little while. Bill Gates is finally being challenged by Google in its money spinning computer operating system monopoly.
A case has been put forward that JA&Gang are illegitimate: they are acting outside their practical mandate; they forcefully or otherwise removed all other power players in the Inner-Circle (a situation being looked at in this post); that this was also against the proper functioning of the Inner-Circle as set out by Osho; and they have chosen according to their own personal inclinations the practical and spiritual approach for the Osho movement.
There has been no reasonable and comprehensive response to the case against JA&Gang.
JA&Gang rest their convictions on a secret practical list of things to do. They however in word and deed perform outside this practical mandate. Some things on the list are adhered strictly, while others loosely. Other things on the list are deemed not important. Still other things are considered to be figurative. The people in the original Inner-Circle that had a different view of how the mix gets made up simply got forced out of the game. I wonder how JA&Gang sees that this is all in perfect harmony with Osho. Their minds must be full of contradictions and masked truths.
Perhaps Jayesh and Amrito had one secret things to do list, while all other members of the original Inner-Circle had a different secret things to do list. Maybe everyone should compare their secret lists and all will be resolved – kisses and hugs all round. You see JA&Gang now rely on the secret list. From Osho himself this list must only be a practical one. Hence it is strange that the Gang is tinkering with the big (spiritual) stuff. Also, if the list is as they say, then it is really not very complicated. Why then all the big fighting over the last twenty years. Something does not make sense here! The only thing that makes sense is that the Gang are making it up as they go along – my way or the highway. The hypocritical farce is that their way is not Osho’s way.
In the previous post Amano thinks JA&Gang will just be laughing at our stupidity here. The thing is that for a while they would have, and this is actually the laugh. There is little chance of changing their minds: for twenty years they have fought and kicked out all that disagreed. The minds that need informing are not in the Gang, they are in the sannyas community. As more information comes to light, these peoples minds will gradually be shifting, especially when there is simply no response coming from JA&Gang.
Those that have been kicked out of the Inner-Circle (or left in quiet protest) have grown many flowers around the world. They have their following now too.
Prem Bubbie we do not need Bill Gates. We already have him. What we need is Google!
Yahoo
Abhay
Oshobob, i think it has always been this way, with regards to one person not knowing what another person or group is doing. A few months ago I challenged Keerti on another thread, challenged his “holy” stature amongst the sannyasin community. you may want to read those posts. Even Keerti didn’t know what Laxmi and Sheela were doing behind closed doors, despite him being the editor of Rajneesh Times or whatever else. Remember, Shiva the bodyguard, he didn’t know shit what was really going on at pune 1!! and he was Osho’s bodyguard!!! The ultimate “clique” was either Laxmi’s or Sheela’s or Jayesh’s. Follow the money. Money meant survival for the ashram or the ranch… I think that’s why Osho gave so much slack to the rich bastard’s, but as life has it, there is always a negative side to things… Osho got the money but look at the cost!!!!! Is it actually the time for socialism? What say you people?
I knew dheeraj well in his last months in pune.
tibetan pulsing was really master work he introduce , but jayesh took advantage of it by charging so much money to participate into those groups
i even remmber one big verbal fight between jayesh and dheeraj over money issue……..dheeraj wanted him to reduce price , so more number of sanyasins can join him into tibetan pulsing ,but jayesh could not agree with him and that was reason dheeraj quit inner circle and he was sad in his last days and finally left pune with dignity and continue to spread osho in italy untill last minute….. please i request you guys to give respect to dheeraj and do not include him with other greedy members of inner circle…….
shantam, you are right that refom is needed in pune.
as far sedexo is concerned……i have no problem with them…….our own sanyasins created space for them to enter and took over jobs which so many sanyasins would love to do in better way and in a right way with deep love…….but jayesh needs sedoxo because they do not question anything and most of all they do not mix with you on dinner tables and in meditation hall….that was main reason jayesh and amrito encourge outside works.
dear friends, i have seen lots of thinghs which normally sanyasins do not see in inner circle.
sanyasins of osho have been exploited by inner circle again and agian and again since osho was in body untill now.
we all have to be blamed for such a mess .( not just amrito and jayesh) because we allow this and did not took objections on those issues . everyone was wating for someone else to raise questions. and we end up with nothing but problems for osho lovers who still love commune and want to feel osho by going to pune and feel presene…………long time i used to blame inner circle and recently i came to realise many of us are responsible for this mess and this present suitation……….osho times has been closed, commune have became very expensive for everyone
when in pune ten percentage prices goes up , commune raises fifty percents……….and no one objects.
this tradition of keeping silent about these issues has to be broken , other wise soon you see this osho home in pune comes to real end which is good for nobody.
sooner or later i am going to pune alone and discuss all this …….i wish some more sanyasins join me .
it will help me to prove my point …….if i do not get support from others , i will still go for it……….but it might look like my personal fight when i stand alone in front of gate…..i willl not be able to move and change mind of so many sleeping members of inner circle.
if i get more friends with me……..it will be reall nice
love
Well, I would say that’s true, what some have said here about even people that you may think are insiders and privy to the goings on in an organization are really not so much. I even remember Ma Maneesha writing or saying somewhere that when she was authoring her ‘trilogy’ in the late ’80′s about the world of Osho — 3 big books — that much of the research info she included was unknown to her. She was hearing it for the first time as she wrote the books.
Who knows, maybe even Laxmi, Sheela, Amrito, and Jayesh, or any of the others never knew diddly about the real inner mechanism of the whole thing — only Osho knew the full story that he had designed himself. Every else was a worker bee of one sort or another.
I don’t think they knew everything that went on. It’s like the u.s. government not knowing the true income of its citizens. For many earn money “off the books”! and don’t pay taxes…. I’m sure there were deals made unbeknownst to the top dogs. For the most part, I’m pretty sure besides osho the real power lied with his secretary at the time…. and her clique. Sheela and her gang did get millions to buy the ranch and then get osho to come… pretty strong juice… That hollywood ma… what’s her name… Hasya… fighting with sheela and her gang while at the ranch… then moving up big time after the fall… and in pune 2… mainly because of her big money and big money connections, besides her loyalty…. Most of us sweating at the ranch and pune 1 were loyal but most didn’t have the cash… just pee ons I guess. My rich former sannyas acquaintances, a couple of them who were around even before the orange clothes and malas, told me that osho always treated them very well. “You don’t bite the hand that feeds you”. I even see that with other “mystics”, they never cross their top money people and closest and long time confidants…. Gets one to really meditate on this “enlightenment” circus. Cirque sole ala mystic!!!
Amano, maybe Jayesh wanted to keep the prices of Tibetan Pulsing high so that fewer people would be exploited. I really question whether Tibetan Pulsing was “master work.”
Amano,
Are you on facebook?
It will be nice to see your face. For sure must have seen you many times during the last two decades in the ashram.
Whether someone like Alok John likes it or not, after the departure of Hollywood´s good whether friends, Dheeraj and his Tibetan pulsation was attracting the maximum number of people.
Money was simply showering from his groups.
Again what is wrong if his students look at him with love and respect. This seems to be the well deserved right of any one who is in the teaching business.
But again inbuilt jealousy and competitiveness in less worthy people plays game spoiler. Dheeraj and His work was kicked out not out of compassion but crystallised ego of few.
Someone through Pulsation or Cranioscral, someone through Kinseology or Aura soma, Massage, rebalancing or Tantra etc. is sharing their expertise with willing participants, this was one of the USP of Pune.
Osho was integrating all these “dubious” therapies with His meditations and the organisation was getting good amount of money through this. I think it was a hammer business and research idea.
But again inflated ego and so called superior intellect could not allow the smooth functioning, because few people got the habit to hang their balls in every hole.
That “Tibetan Pulsing” is kinda mysterious. I get the feeling it has nothing at all to do with Tibet, but since many sannyasins did it, but no one talks about it’s content, I assume it might have been some kind of sex group, posturing as “therapy”. Is that right Alok? Or is a little too X-rated for public discussion?… What exactly was Tibetan Pulsing?
Also, here is a photo of Jan. 19, 1990 in Pune that Dhanyam sent to me in the snail mail — I put it up as the front picture on my homepage to kick of the new year of 2010. Can you find some of the Inner Circle in this photo….I see Sw. Yogi, Sw. Jayesh, Ma Anando, Ma Garimo….any more that anyone can identify…?
Here’s the link:
http://www.livingworkshop.net
my last post didn’t fly, here’s it again…
Dhanyam sent me this photo in the mail, and I put it up on my homepage as the front image — 14 days to go to the 20th annivesery of Jan. 19, 1990.
Can you pick out some of the Inner Circle members…Jayeesh and Yogi in front, Anando and Garimo….any more some of you can identify (by the top of there heads?)….is that Shunyo at the rear left?
Looks like Osho has got the best seat in the house…
http://www.livingworkshop.net
osho january 19, 1990
I had a few posts that didn’t stick here….try again…
Here’s my new homepage for the new year with a photo that Dhanyam sent to me…January 19, 1990 in Pune…
http://www.livingworkshop.net
Can you find the Inner Circle members…?
shantam, i was wondering the same about you , are you on facebook
are you same shantam who lives in germany
Bob, in this historic photo, one can see few of the inner circle members. Two people in the very front are Jayesh and Yogi. On Jayesh´s right and Yogi´s left shoulder, Osho did His last journey on the streets of Koregaon Park leading towards Burning ghat.
It means 4-5 days before his 42nd birthday in 1990, under Jayseh presidentship the new ery of Osho´s work began.
Nobody knows for sure, whether his colleagues in the inner circle ditched him or he made their presence difficult.
Yes Amano, i am that Indian Shantam who lives in Germany. On facebook i am registered as Shantam Astro.
From Poona days, i know two people with name Amano.
One Indian who worked for few years in Japan and another Swiss, famous for his Russian connections!
I wonder whether you are one of these two or the third one.
Don´t miss at youtube, ” I leave you my Dream” in three parts.
Who knows when someone will pull the strings, that this historic video is again taken away.
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The Inner-Circle does not have any formal legal status. It was set up by Osho to support the Osho movement, but it was never a legal entity. It is not that members of the Inner-Circle are the directors of an overarching charitable trust or foundation. Of course there are various trusts, foundations (and now private companies) with some members of the current Inner-Circle having legal stature in these entities.
An example of the lack of authority of the Inner-Cricle is in Mukta owning Lao Tzu (and the Samadhi). What would happen if Mukta transferred ownership of Lao Tzu to her beloved, or indeed anyone at all? What would happen if for example she gave it to Keerti? To ensure that something like this does not happen her ‘beloved’ has been discredited and banned. I have heard that a legal action has also been taken to take over Lao Tzu.
The battle lines are much more fluid than most people realise, and the current Inner-Circle has no status or final say in the matter. The current Inner-Circle has lost all credibility, and with no legal standing, it is basically insignificant. In a way this is probably a large part of the reason why the vast majority of the original Inner-Circle left. People like Jayesh and Mukhesh held the real financial strings. If for example Jayesh wanted to charge more for a type of therapy than that is how it was. Like it or leave! Did he (and does he) really have the authority to do this? Can he really force another member of the Inner-Circle to charge more for a therapy course they are offering? This is how he has conducted business for twenty years now, but has he really the authority?
The following explains how Jayesh’s little game plan has worked so well. Essentially he has played duel roles, combined with an imposing arrogance about his financial genius. Jayesh was a financier, and is therefore presumably a director of various legal entities. It should be noted here that anyone with some financial backing could have done the same (Mukta was the original example in Pune). This gave Jayesh some authority to push through some financial decisions.
Jayesh was pushing around his financial muscle, and then he became chairmen of the Inner-Circle. What he did was to place his self-assumed domineering role in financing as part of his role as chairman of the Inner-Circle. He also then ignored the fundamental concept of working by consensus. In this way he became the boss and the financier. In actual fact he was a financier in the way that anyone with some financial clout could become a financier. However by absorbing the self-assumed role as chief financier into the role of chairmen of the Inner-Circle, he became chief financial officer and commander in chief.
If for example I had a stack of money, I could by 40 acres around the resort, call it a foundation, make myself the director, and then have massive influence on the extended resort. Of course I would need the cooperation of other foundations and people. This is all that happened to the original ashram. The original ashram was simply Mukta’s house. Then other people bought up land around the house, and eventually it became known as the Osho Resort.
To put it another way, let’s say I was a filthy rich hippie in the 70’s – much richer than Jayesh – and I became the main financial backer for Osho. In this scenario Jayesh still becomes chairmen of the Inner-Circle. I hold the power over the financial strings, and Jayesh is the chairmen of an informal organisation. If you came to me with your gripes over Jayesh’s arrogance and dictatorial style, and if it was a matter that included finance (most important managerial matters do), then what I say goes. If I wanted to build a box rather than a pyramid for a new meditation resort, Jayesh would have no say in the matter.
I will give here an actual example. One time when Mukta was away some of the management team built a little cage for rabbits in Lao Tzu. Mukta hated the idea of caged animals, so when she came back and found out she had them take the structure down. Mukta – and not the management team – had the final say on the matter because Mukta owned Lao Tzu. Do you see the pattern? The management team would have told everyone that they have the right to build the cage, and of course they have the understanding to know that this is a good thing (or is it perhaps on the secret things to do list of Osho’s?).
To put it simply Jayesh owns some stuff. He then, in the capacity of chairman of the Inner-Circle, says he has the right to tinker with this stuff. Though he does not own a lot of other stuff, he simply tells everyone that he has the right to tinker with it because he is chairman of the Inner-Circle. This is what he is doing and it is a scam.
This is the little secret manoeuvre that has allowed him to push everyone else out of the game.
What we have is a confusing and deceptive duplicity of roles. The notion of secrecy helps a lot. Osho may or may not have wanted the ENTIRE Inner-Circle team to work through their issues in private, and then express the consensus view to the entire Osho community. However it is the secretive nature of the way different people and their respective trusts, foundations, and private entities operate that is a major problem.
The Osho sannyas community has the right to know what has been going on in this regard. The secretiveness is a strategy to assume and wield powers that were not given by Osho, and that have no legitimacy.
The Inner-Circle is an informal organisation set up to work by consensus. Perhaps it worked like that until 19 Jan 1990. However since then it has been clearly anything but. Of course it is probably in the secret things to do list that Jayesh and Amrito are allowed to dictate when they see fit. They probably also have a second things to do list that are spiritual rather than practical in nature. It would say things like, Zen is the new thing and there are no pictures of dead Masters in Zen.
Yahoo
Abhay
http://oshobuddhism.blogspot.com
I don’t think Abhay, that the JA Team determined that “Zen was the new thing”. It was Osho himself who put the total focus on Zen. And even for him it was not a ‘new thing’. It was the main thread that traversed his whole discourse history. All his talks on Taoism (half of Zen), all his talks on Buddha (the other half of Zen), and all this talks on Zen (the culmination of the two) were saturating Osho’s discourses from the very beginning of his speaking, from the late 60′s.
Most of his other talks (Jesus, Krishna, Patanjali, Kabir, and Sufis, etc.) were embedded to cater to his audience that already had some experience with these subjects, in one way or another.
Not to say they don’t have merit in the spiritual quest, but for Osho, the way always was pointing towards the ultimate in human consciousness, which is given the name of no-mind, emptiness, or simply…Zen.
As to Zen doesn’t put up dead master’s pictures…
that’s not true. I’ve been to many Zen temples in China where there are big framed pictures of the old Chinese masters up, masters from the 6th century onward, including Bodhidharma, Yunmen, Baizhang, Linji, Mazu, and so on.
In Japan, portraits of Zen masters were not uncommon, and they even made wooden statues, lifelike of some of the more prominent Zen illuminaries — one that comes to mind is the woman Chiyono, who was featured prominently in the story of her laquer water bucket which broke apart…no water, no moon…
You can’t blame Jayesh and Amrito for everything….pretty soon they’ll be made responsible for the fall of the Roman Empire, and Princess Di’s car crash too….
Bob, I find it little strange that you were in many Zen temples in China but not a single time in Poona, during Osho´s life time and afterwards.
On the other side, when one goes through your website, you seems to be hundred percent Osho freak, a sannyasin without formal sannyas.
Whether it is Zen or what so ever, Osho created His own style of functioning, and it is not in the spirit of Master Disciple relating to change that functioning as per the convenience or interpretation of some particular group.
Because of osho´s unique spices, Poona experience was one of its kind on the earth, now it is one in the millions of Spas, resorts, retreats, yoga and meditation centers.
When a child grown in the slums open a cigarette kiosk it is a success, but when the inheritors of super store turn into a kiosk, even with air condition, it will termed as downward swing.
OshoBob, Zen is not the new thing, Osho is!
I am of the opinion that you are biased when you say most of Osho’s other discourses were to cater for an audience that had exposure to a particular spirituality. I agree with the general point, but do not see that Osho’s discourses on Zen were different in this regard.
Of course you have a certain view of what the term Zen is referring to, and in this way I understand your view. However other people have a certain view of what the term Jesus or Sufism means, and hence they would also see Osho in their own special way.
You make a good point about Zen and pictures. Of course I was simply making a joke. You have some authority on the subject and I suggest JA & Gang ask you for a few pointers. They are clearly trying to introduce a new spirituality called Osho Zen. It is mirrored in their development of their resort, and in their correspondence. This however has nothing to do with Zen, and also nothing to do with Osho.
OshoBob you have made an interesting point about ‘blame’. This is something that needs to be made clear. Yes I cannot blame them for Islamic extremism or Lady Di’s car crash. However I can hold to them to account for what they have authority over. They are responsible for various practical managerial affairs.
I can for example hold them to account for making massive financial investment in non-essential areas, whilst leaving the drinking water contaminated – not even bothering to buy new filters. Did Osho forget to mention that in making a swish new club med, please make sure that the water is safe and the food is clean? I am assuming that on the things to do list there are swimming pools (in the plural). Why do we have just one? Is there are time frame for the other pools? Why was it that the water going into the pool was at times filthy? Was it Osho’s request to build the pyramid complex at the expense of health and safety? What sense does it make to build such a complex, complete with a high-tech water filtration system that is not turned on because it does not work? Was this also just a specific part of Osho’s practical plan for a club med? Could not the bells and whistles have waited for a few years if funding was so tight? I thought that Osho requested that water go all the way round the new meditation hall. Why then was this not done? The answer is a practical one!
We have an absurd mix of contradictions in the affairs over which the Gang is responsible. Some common sense decisions (to buy some water filters) are ignored. Some things on Osho’s list are carried out in part. Presumably other things are carried out to the letter. The official line is of course that ‘we’ are fulfilling Osho’s wishes as requested by him. Who decided that in carrying out Osho’s list of things to do, basic human rights be ignored? Who decided what can be amended? Who decides what can be omitted from Osho’s list. This secret things to do list is what the current Inner-Circle are hiding behind. You only have to look at what they have done to know that their line of justification is completely nonsensical. I do not have to sneak a peak at the secret list to know that they are making it up as they go along, and doing an atrocious job at that.
Jayesh and Amrito are responsible and should be held to account for their conduct in this regard.
I can also hold them to account for assuming responsibilities that they do not have: for straying from the guidelines Osho gave them to work within. Examples of this include a practical mandate, working by consensus, and succession planning. I can also hold them to account for their conduct in areas that they have strayed into: straying into playing guru with Osho’s legacy, and conflating financial input with Inner-Circle responsibilities. It is very clear from the decisions they have made that they have strayed into making spiritual decisions that are outside their practical mandate. Further, we have from their own correspondence that they have actually justified their decisions in spiritual rather than practical terms. In this way they have let their guard down. They would have been smarter to coat their deception with nice practical reasons. Funny enough Amrito tried this one with the demolishing of the Pagoda. He tried to blame the local council, when in truth the local council stopped any further desecration.
I am very clear and targeted in the way I am addressing the issues at hand. The criticism is not wild and aimless, it is justified and pointed.
Yahoo
Abhay
shantam, i am third amano, soon i will contact you on facebook and give you good surprise , yes you know me , but well. we worked together in welcome center 1993
I really like your comments because they come from pure love for osho and his sanyasins.
you are also one of those hearts who has still hope that someday everything is going to be allright in our life time
“Beshak Mandir Masjid toron, Bullah Shan Jeh Kehta
Par Pyar Bhara dil kabhi na Toron, Jis main dil bhar Rehta”
(Without doubt break down the temples n Masques, Bullah Shah is saying. But NEVER break the heart; there the Beloved lives”)
On similar lines, Osho has spoken much much much.
Was it for entertainment purpose?
He made us realised our thirst. He took the effort with our little hands to create an Oasis…
Travelling a day, Travelling a year.. travelling a life time to find my way Home……..and home did not have the swimming pool, home did not have the Pyramids…but Home had loving hugs, some smiles, tears of gratitude, warm Tandoori Bread( People still remember the baked Roti of Mariam area)….and HOPE… to create a better loving world.
“If we can do it in this small ashram. It will create RIPPLE EFFECT for the whole world.I have got the right people to be my temples Masques Synagogues”, kind of sentences uttered before His people from around the world.
Osho was not missed that much till 1999, but afterwards when sun was rising on the globe….our little lamp has gone dimmed…
Was the OIL has gone missing..NO.. people thought let us try with water. It is cheaper, less massy and far out. It is SCIENTIFIC.
and they are still trying.. such is the human stubbornness.
May be these people should again go to some living Master, who tells them the common sense theme that Blood is thicker than the water and therefore treat your fellow seekers not as customers and clients but as siblings with equal rights and responsibilities, you guys share the same blood group O.
Shantam , I am not sure if this goes with the flow of this discussion or not, but I would like to bring up some thing I thought is relevant. First of all, Thank you for posting the Youtube links on ” I leave you my Dream”. It makes us cry every time we watch.
Can I ask the forum to share on what Osho’s dream is in objective terms. Once we define that, it is possible to determine where we stand quantitatively or Qualitatively and check whether we are on the right track or not. In order to make any dream a reality, it needs an organisation, whether it is one man or several people and there has to be some kind of road map to accomplish it..
May be this is already discussed elsewhere..If so please let me know ..
“Beshak Mandir Masjid toron, Bullah Shan Jeh Kehta
Par Pyar Bhara dil kabhi na Toron, Jis main dil bhar Rehta”
(Without doubt break down the temples n Masques, Bullah Shah is saying. But NEVER break the heart; there the Beloved lives”)
Very beautiful and loving message. Yes, the presence of Osho, and the essence it received by a small size antenna ( means the less learned people or with less meditation ) also started piercing to the heart, of Osho.
Freedom is needed to the generations to come also to receive the vibrations of the Master. They read Osho booksin their homes, they listen His discourses but because of high rates of entry cannot afford to meet the invisible Master. Older Sanyasins too have the abyss level desire to touch the walls, floors, plants and trees (a sort of SPARSH) where is Master lived, saw them, and walked. This is Pilgrimage for His people now with touching and soothing love.
Murali, you have pointed towards a very relevant question about
Organisation, road map etc.
The article is brewing in me connected with the blue print of His work as i have heard, saw and felt from the time He was in body.
In between found the below article about one of the most influential Ma.
I always wonder Why her group comprising of 5 inner circle members left the collective movement. What factors brought them to the decision of going back to USA forever.
http://www.wonderfull-things.com/oshos/Kaveesha/kaveesha/dewdrop.htm
Right Shantam, it is strange that I never went to Pune.
But if it’s strange to you hearing about from a distance, just think how strange it is for me, who has lived it, in body and soul for 30 years.
I’ll tell you a short story…
I was on my way to see Osho in Pune in the spring of 1981. When I got to New York City from a western ranch in the US, I was told by sannyasins not to go to India, there were strange things happening that no one could talk about. Turns out this was the time Osho also arrived in NYC, and was going the other way to a Ranch in the western US.
Strange story but, believe it or not, true.
And Sa…, I mean, Abhay, I’ve been thinking about you…
And Bob what happened afterwards. When Osho was camping in your country and after wards in Pune. How you were dealing with this desire to be in the company of this amazing man?
Some how human civilisation is less humorous without Him.
Shantam you are really a snoop. Do you work for Paki intelligence? I tell you one thing, and you want more info. Always hounding everyone for photos too. How much do they pay you for this work, pal…? Ha ha.
…Well then, Shanty, to continue….when I find out that Osho has gone to Oregon, somehow I get a phone number, and call them up. What else would a sincere seeker do? At that time there were just a handful of people, living in tents and trailers. They wouldn’t even tell me that Osho was there, if I remember correctly. I told them I’d like to come out there and meet the Buddha of all Buddhas, but they are defensive, wary. They say don’t come. No accommodations, etc. Wait, they say. I say Ok, I won’t come…and I don’t….I wait.
Now, you see, Osho is a humorous man, quite the merry prankster, I agree with you there. But, every joke has its limit too. You have to get to the punch-line sooner or later. I once heard Osho tell a joke about the Polack Pope that went on and on, 15 minutes maybe. But thank god, he finally wrapped it up with the closer. Jeezus, that was a drawn out joke. But that’s nothing to some of his stunts that he cooks up…. I mean, there are jokes that are stretched out 20 years, with no punch-line in sight….that makes the Pope the Polack joke a quickie by comparison…Osho “leaves the body” on Jan. 19, 1990, and then the factions start forming, the frictions start grinding, and the vision starts vaporizing. Our Gunga Din Abhay wants good water, but no one listens, no one cares…you go figure it. What next?
OshoBob I have no special interest or particular obsession with water. You have not been to Pune. Have you been to India? Do you know anything about what is in the holy and ‘pure’ waters of India? When I first met the sacred Ganges river in Rishikesh I drank her deeply (literally). I never got sick, but my friend almost instantly became gravely ill. Thankfully it was her suggestion to drink the holy water and not mine! How does it register with you if sannyasin engineers requested new filters for years, and finance refused to buy them for years. Meanwhile the ashram was being transformed into a resort – massive financial investment. You do not know if what I am saying is true. However let us assume that it is the case. Then, what do you think of that? I call it utterly void of a trace of common sense. Another way of putting it is the people behind this type of decision making are insane – literally. There is a deep thread of insanity in the minds of many people in power. This is the point I am trying to make using water as an example.
Murali it is easy to get swept up in the romantic idea that Osho left Jayesh and Amrito his dream. To understand what Osho was doing I would try to answer by looking around, rather than at, what he said. At the time of saying “I leave you my dream”, he also said that Anando was his messenger; then he decided to change that and said that Anando is my medium. From this it can be said that not too much importance can be attached to any particular wording. Osho also made clear that he had no successor, and that the Inner-Circle had a practical scope, and was not to function as a successor by default. Whatever you would like to assert Osho meant in the phrase “I leave you my dream”, it should keep this in mind. Of course I am of the view that it was Osho’s last joke to a pair of power tripping pseudo-Zen mad men. Whoever else fell for the joke became part of the bigger joke that has lasted for twenty years (almost).
It is inconceivable that the likes of Osho left Jayesh and Amrito to carry on his work in the same way that Osho the Master had done. Despite this, Jayesh and Amrtio in words and deeds have done just this. This is the joke. However the Osho sannyas community can only really get the punch line when the community as a whole gets the joke and has a good laugh. Only then will the energy that is feeding the joke get turned off. Jayesh and Amrito, and off course the management gurus in Pune (Dhyanesh, Vatayana, Gatha, Mukesh, Sadhana, etc) will not be given power by the Osho community. Without this, they will go completely nuts. That may not be a joke, but it will be entertaining.
A picture tells a thousand words, and the picture of Osho being carried to the ghats is a good one. Jayesh is carrying Osho’s body on one side at the front. I assumed that Amrito would be on the other side, but apparently it is Yogi. This is strange to me. Did Osho appoint Jayesh to take the front position? No he did not. What happened is very simple and very telling. Jayesh took that position because he wanted it. It is the same with “I leave you my dream”. Jayesh took that front position because he wanted it. Everyone played along. They played along in part because they saw Jayesh at the head of the procession leading Osho to the ghats. In other ways he also pushed to the front of the Osho movement. Having financial clout obviously helped a lot. People saw Jayesh leading the way, and then started assuming that that is right – in part because they assumed that Osho gave it all to him. It is all a fiction made up by Jayesh. Job well done I’d say. If you want some advice on how to clandestinely become disciple number one and then pseudo-guru numero uno, he’s the man.
OshoBob it is not I who is servicing the criminal. Nor is it I that will take a bullet for them. I am no Gunga Din. The people who are feeding the establishment are the collective Gunga Din, and yes they have been hurt deeply also.
What next? Well OshoBob I am growing weary of slamming the establishment with seemingly little result. Perhaps noone likes to get a good joke? I would be surprised if you a more broke then I am. Let’s start a fund-raiser, buy a ranch in the States, a hobby farm outside of Byron Bay, and a town house in Europe (and one in Russia and elsewhere if there is any petty cash left over), and have a big Osho pub-crawl.
Despite all its new found wealth, India is a deeply corrupt country with half a billion people still entrenched in poverty, malnutrition, and disease. I suppose JA & Gang and their resort fit nicely in the scheme of things. Who am I to try and stop people drinking and eating (and breathing) filth.
Yahoo
Abhay
Oshobob
very strange , this story of yours , but also very touching ; do you mean that you really waited and waited for some kind of “call ” from the master ?
I know , getting into the Ranch was costly and not so easy , but in spite of that I did want to se him ” in the flesh ” so to speak and at whatever cost , and I never regretted it . Since you seem to be rather well acquainted with Chan and Zen , there is a line concerning one of the Masters , that I have always loved and that goes something like :
Just a glimpse of the real man standing there and you’re in love …..
Well , that’s how I felt that time when I first saw him at drive by time on that hot and dusty summer day ; I had never seen a man like that before , and never since ; with eyes radiating that strange compassion , looking nowhere and everywhere at the same time ……..
As an american you could have easily got in in 84 when they needed all the votes they could get ; many of my US friends did just that .
Maybe it is you who stretched the joke too far ?
But , of course , we all have our own ways of connecting with the Master .
“I leave you my dream”
In the early Osho Times, when big supplements were included as homage to the master, it was mentioned so many times that the pharse, ” I leave you my dream” was meant for all the disciples, present and future, presence of Jayesh and Amrito was incidental, representing all of us.
They tried in the beginning but somehow Humpty Dumpty ego of many could not create an Orchestra. Most of the original inner circle members, specially from North American side were solo players or leading a tribe with their own personal agenda. Amazingly enough all were radiating energy as the disciples who will live and die for His work.
And His work was not to blow off the people or to impose any kind of ancient laws.
The WORK was to create and grow different kinds of human flowering, A Botanical Garden of inner.
As Abhay wrote, “Zen is not the new thing, Osho is!”
To protect their little interests they sabotage one of the vast and unique experiment of our time.
End of Poona dream is not because of external pressure from Christian fundamentalists but from the disciples who were drenched in their conditioning. Most probably the 21 apostles of Osho treated Him as one of them. His generosity was taken as ride.
In the end i see those 12 uneducated disciples of Jesus having the last laugh. The fisherman, carpenter, plumber have scored beautifully over the educated and intelligent ones.
Shantam .. we all have been consistent .. in our way .. not only in this forum but outside it too probably .. l guess this includes Jayesh & Amrito ..
like Abhay said ” A picture tells a thousand words, and the picture of Osho being carried to the ghats is a good one. Jayesh is carrying Osho’s body on one side at the front. I assumed that Amrito would be on the other side, but apparently it is Yogi. This is strange to me. Did Osho appoint Jayesh to take the front position? No he did not. What happened is very simple and very telling. Jayesh took that position because he wanted it. It is the same with “I leave you my dream”. Jayesh took that front position because he wanted it. Everyone played along. They played along in part because they saw Jayesh at the head of the procession leading Osho to the ghats. In other ways he also pushed to the front of the Osho movement. ”
sometimes it seems Jayesh will live for ever .. specially after he survived the ‘Oberoi ‘ / 26/11 episode ..
So Chareveti Chareveti …
Anagara,
You’re creating a wrong impression to the story — I didn’t just wait and wait for the call from the master, like some romantic fool in a dreamworld — no, not at all. That was just one little episode there I told in that last post.
The next year (without calling first to see if it was OK or not), I just got in my old beat-up 1970 Chevy Nova, and drove to the Ranch to see what was going on. As I was working construction at the time, and being an American, I knew, if you wanted something to happen, you had to go out and make it happen. Like building a house — nothing is created unless you make it.
Reading your post of your joy of just seeing Osho in a Drive-by being worth everything for you — as I think I mentioned before on this forum, the first person I saw on the Ranch was Osho himself who drove by me in a Rolls Royce (very fast too!) half way up the 15 mile county road that connected Antelope with Rajneeshpuram.
I visited the Ranch 3 or 4 times, the last being in ’84/’85, when Osho was talking to disciples (Lao Tzu House?) in what later would be known as The Rajneesh Bible series. These would be shown the next day at night in Rajneesh Mandir (if you were there at this time, then you remember) to the whole commune…
I saw Osho many times in the afternoon group Drive-by, and 3 times alone too — “on the road”.
There’s a time to wait, and there’s a time to move…
And Abhay, you are quite the interesting person…I will try to get back to your long post above and give some input on it when I get some more coffee down the hatch….global pub-crawling…Osho style…? Very unique idea…
Also, only 10 days left to D-Day…it seems everyone has their own ideas on this amorphous “joke” that is floating through the years and the skies….we will see who is right, and who is left…
I found your thing about seeing Osho on the road, OshoBob, moving, A similar thing happened to me just once but I remember it like a bolt.
I was wandering around alone exploring the countryside, probably off limits on the Ranch, the sort of thing which the hierarchy certainly did not like or encourage, when I was about to cross a road and there was the Rolls about 50 yards away. I just stood there in namaste, expecting the car to flash by, but the old bugger slowed right down, and gave me that look from the beyond. He didn’t stop, but did the slow driving number…. and then suddenly speeded up and was gone.
Shantam, Osho did not create the 21 apostles! Have a look at the some of the people that were not in the original list. Maneesha was not there, that seems a little strange to me. Shunyo was not on the original list either. What about Samdarshi, and so many many more. Have a look at who is on the list now. Vatayana, Gatha, Dhyanesh, Mukesh, Yogendra…a fine list indeed. Of course Osho called it the Inner-Circle. Who would devote their ego to the cause if it were not for such a prestigious title. I am sure it is sacrilegious to mention that the Inner-Circle was only responsible for practical administrative affairs.
OshoBob it is OK to be right or left, but it is not OK to be Bernie Madoff or Kim Jong-il.
Abhay,
First, I have to say your memory of the famous poem by R. Kipling, “Gunga Din” is better than mine. I had forgot he was the guy that took the bullets to bring the water to the troops. The only connection I was making with you and Gunga Din is that it took place in India and his focus was bringing the water. That’s what reminded me of you, and this water thing at the Resort. No, I don’t think you are like him further than that. It’s been a long time since I read that poem, I’ll have to brush up on it…
But, looking at from more of a distance, I would agree that it’s not so much dirty water at the Resort that you are concerned with, it’s the JA & Gang power group that you have got a bee in your bonnet about. The water filter thing seems to be just a particular metaphor that you have latched onto to state your case against the big boys of 17 Kor., and OIF in general. You do not like the set-up, you’re pissed off about it, and you now are getting weary tilting at the windmills of the establishment. OK. I can see your point.
No, I have never been to India, or Pune, but if I did go I would surely not drink the water from the Ganges where people bathe, dead animals float, sewage is dumped, and so forth. I am surprised you did that. But to try to connect that water with the Resort’s drinking and cooking water seems to be a pretty big stretch to me. I mean, I have not heard anyone else complain, not in the Pune news (Google Osho Alerts), or anything else. You are the only one I have heard bring this up. It would seem that clean water, where no one gets sick in any way, would be a top priority for the Resort, and indeed, they advertise it too. As word of mouth and return visits is probably the bulk of the Resort’s clientele and revenue, bad water and contaminated food would have to be the worst thing possible for them, even if they were just concerned about the money lost. And clean, non-amoeba water being one of Doc Amrito’s pet peaves during his tenure in Pune 1, I don’t think this would be a minor subject for him.
But, you may have a stronger case involving the mandate of the Inner Circle, the consensus thing, the succession issue, etc. But if Osho himself didn’t set up any system to deal with these disagreements as it concerns the global sannyas community, then I don’t know what the solution might be. If it’s just a couple of people that have no legal ground to stand on, why don’t all you disgruntled Oshoites just go and physically pick up Jayesh and Amrito and take them and dump them in the river, and take over power. Sit in their chairs and smoke their cigars and drink their liquor like the SDS did at Columbia University in the 60′s, and the Free Speech Movement at Berkeley in California. Can 2-10 self-proclaimed managers have any chance against 1 million sannyasins?
But, when you say Abhay, that I am probably not as broke as you, there you are most likely wrong. But, if you have any good ideas about fund-raisers, which I know nothing about, to make for a global pub-hopping and Osho center system, let me know. Is there any more money out there to donate to these things? I strongly doubt it.
But, anyone who tosses out words like “conflate”, and “legal entities”, as you pepper your post with Abhay, always interests me, especially when you claim your field of education is Fluid Mechanics.
And to end, I would agree with you and all those that have agreed with you, that it is not Zen that is new, but Osho that is new!
Yes — You’re a better man than I, Osho ‘u Din !
Well, Abhay, Bernie Madoff I would surely not like to be, before or after his problems, but Kim Jong il…now that’s another story, I think he’s played his part well, stood up to the bogus “world community”, and has the unflinching support of the North Korean people. And he looks pretty good in sunglasses too, taking on the world. Reminds me of Osho in his “I won’t back down” modality. You gotta give him some respect.
Meditators or businessmen, with Osho or with Osho Pop;
underlined principle is, ” Trust in existance is good, control through lawyers is better and if you can aquire an absolute control, don´t miss it.”
and for masses, if they start thinking religion is a opium, sell them religiousness.
Marlboro is a cigratte but Camel is a camel!
Abhay,
During Osho´s life time, i can say without doubt, every second person was competent enough for any kind of responsibility.
The choice was zeroed on those few, who have long standing relation with Him and moreover have social and financial clout, so that product delivery system goes smooth.
In a business world, these people were suppose to provide “Tetra Packs” or to be hollow Bamboo so that His music flows through them.
but than tailors wanted to become fashion designers, cement and sand providers became Architects and foundation engineers.
The idea was to create OSHO BURJ in Pune, the most prestigious address in the world for inner construction.
The Burj fell down not because it was built on sand but so is the duality between the path of Enlightenment and Endarkenment.
When Devageet asked this question, it was presumed that Endarkenment is there some where else, in the old religions, in the corridors of Delhi and Washington.
Just a decade and the myth is scattered.
As a group, we are a typical case of adolescences. Our state fits with the questioners of newspapers agony columns,” while watching xxx, it goes up very nicely but with woman, it rebels. does not stand up to greet her.”
What is the purpose of all this Gibberish, when for conflict management we go back to middle ages and middle east kind of warfare or welfare?
Gangu din, a better man than I. Whichever way you look at it the poem is about Osho.
OshoBob, I thankyou for your reply on the water contamination issue. Simply put, you are of the view that I am lying. You do not believe what I say are simple facts. It is good that you made your reply because I also believe that you have expressed a view that mirrors the general sannyas community. Even when I last went to Pune, people simply laughed and said that what I was saying was absurd. You see the resort looks so beautiful, and Amrito looks like such a nice medical doctor. People do not actually take what I say seriously enough to reflect on what it might mean if what I am saying were actually true. If they could get that far, then there is a chance to move forward.
Just to inform you of a little factual error in your viewpoint. I worked in the resort medical centre for a time, and every day people came in their droves with gastro-intestinal complaints. It is not that people did not get sick in Pune. The thing is they never link this to the possibility that it could have come from the food or the water at the resort. The reason is, as you say, that the resort has strongly promoted their hygiene standards. The other reason is that the place looks clean (but only on the surface), and you never hear that it is otherwise. The only mention of it is me….who probably is some psycho with an axe to grind. However do I sound like a nutcase, with a mind that has no sense of clarity? You are not familiar with any of the facts surrounding the water issue, and so at best can simply disagree outright – even so much as to say people don’t get sick there. You fail to address any of the comprehensive and detailed case that I have made. Of course you write pleasantries about the establishment, including the doc. That is nice, but not at all constructive.
Of course I do get feedback from visitors to the resort. Such people, having got sick, and having a sense of it being from the resort….when they read what I have written they connect the dots very quickly indeed! OshoBob, my suggestion is you go to the resort, get sick, banned, threatened, and assaulted, and then re-read what I have written. I will look forward to your more worldly reply.
OshoBob, it amuses me that you having some affinity towards, and knowledge of The Ranch, and then actually consider the possibility that Osho may have offered a solution for a serious social mess. With the Inner-Circle, as with The Ranch, Osho already gave all the solutions, and his people destroyed this with their fear, ignorance and greed. You of course have interesting suggestions for the way forward.
You wonder about moving forward. If I were to give even a single rupee to anyone calling themselves an Osho sannyasin, I would want to know the following: that there is a clear and documented charter that describes the positions and relationships of power – countries call it their constitution; transparency in governance, including freedom of information about its workings; a free and informed journalist institution; an ombudsman’s role; a limit to terms in office for some positions; a means for election to office; and the list goes on. In other words, it is a lot like what is happening in Iraq and Afghanistan – building the framework and the institutions for a civil(-ised) society. Should be pretty much straight forward I am thinking. Only then would I give a single rupee. I am optimistic that I will keep all my rupees.
I will explain how I am moving forward – maybe the example will assist you. All I have to do is have a half intelligent discussion with someone who is also at least half intelligent, and then people accidentally reading the discussion will come to form the view that I am at least not stupid. Amazingly, I can actually string a few words together, follow some basic grammatical rules, and create sentences….many of them in fact. I have had much abuse come my way from many a devoted Osho sannyassin. The interesting thing is that very little of it is anything more than a primal grunt of extreme and dislocated dislike. Such people are angry at having their dream of paradise tarnished. Now I am not expecting these people to elevate themselves out of their primordial slumber. However, such sannyasins are in the vast minority. Any reasonably sane person who has dismissed me at the outset, and then has read my discussions here, will have some reconciling to do. You see all I have to do is ramble on here, and people’s minds will have to undergo a process of questioning and reconciling, and the Gang will keep on fuming because they also know this.
In having the rambling discussion here, it seems I have inadvertently stumbled across a not half bad general critique of JA & the Gang. That is most unfortunate, and I assure the Gang that it was entirely accidental on my part. My sincere wish is that someone could at least cut my critique to shreds. I only suggest that they do not simply say I am lying, and the resort and the team really look so nice, so everything must be nice – a little more intelligence and creativity please.
As for Kim Jong-il, well he sure is a good Zorba. He puts away the finest spirits like few others, no doubt. And who could disagree with his sense of fashion. His sunglasses are nearly as cool has his flashy suits. I also give the utmost respect to any person who has a nuclear bomb, regardless of their indiscretions. I suppose you have heard about his latest economic venture – destroying the savings of his people so that he can maintain economic control. Perhaps however you did not hear that there were some market traders that rioted in response. There is not much to hear about them because they have been discretely removed from their bodies for their slight indiscretions. Yes his people love him dearly. He is such a nice man.
Yahoo
Abhay
Shantam do you think that in the corridors of power in Delhi or Washington, or indeed in the old religions (including Irish catholic priests), have ever heard of the possibility of their own Endarkenment? Osho may be new, but his people are a little slow dragging themselves out of the repetition of history. Why should we quibble with 20 years of darkness when humanity has been weaving in and out of it since the dawn of the barbarians.
It is now clear to see.
‘Abhay’ is an anagram.
You notice Abhay always signs his posts,
“Yahoo
Abhay”
“Abhay” spelled backwards is “Yahba”.
Though a little altered from “Yahoo”, it is a take off on the “Yahboo” crying stage of Osho Mystic Rose Meditation, where Osho suggested saying “Yaboo” to help bring your tears — the ‘water’ element !
Clever. Very clever, ‘Abhay’.
You have been exposed.
– Robert “oshobob” Langlei
Osho symbologist
hahaha…OshoBob thats hilarious.
Bob Oh so!!!
I feel exposed!
Actually Abhay in reverse is Yahba. Yahba is short for Yahba-dabba-doo.
Yes it is true, I am actually Fred Flinstone.
“Yes it is true, I am actually Fred Flinstone.”
Don’t be thrown off by this cute deception of Abhay’s.
It is actually Fred “Flint-stone” — the ‘fire’ element !
When I was working on the “Angels and Demons” case in Rome, the Vatican’s Carmelengo created false leads like this, trying to blame it on the Illuminati.
No such luck here, Abhay. No way!
We have ‘fire’ and ‘water’, now we just need the ‘earth’ and ‘air’ elements, then connect the dots between the resorts and pubs — USA, Australia, Russia, and the fourth may be Pune, and the Holy Grail will be revealed!
– Robert “oshobob” Linglay
Osho symbologist
There are two possibilities to understanding Yahoo.
Firstly, it may be a combination of the first three and last two letters of Yahba-Dabba-Doo. Interesting to note here that the remaining letters baDabbaD form the word bad both forward and in reverse.
The other possibility is that it is a subtle variation of the phrase Yehaa. Yehaa comes from when a cowboy is galloping along at break-neck speed after having just stolen a bank’s reserves.
Interesting to note is that neither of these alternatives has anything to do with Osho.
The form option is an earth element sign while the latter is an air element sign.
There are only a few days to go.
Yahoo
Abhay
Yehaa
Fred Flin’stone
Yahba-Dabba-Doo
At what point does an indiscretion become a deception?
I think, Abhay, that an indiscretion and a deception are two different animals completely.
An indiscretion is a consciously made faux paux (i most likely mangled the spelling there on that French phrase, consciously, therefore it is definitely an indiscretion, at at least from the French perspective (but who cares about that !).
Osho made a living out of a non-stop juggernaut of indiscretions, from calling the Pope the Polack Pope to all his racist and sexist jokes, to his going outside the bounds of every social, religious, sexual, and political perimiter of accepted norms and conventions.
But deception is a different thing altogether. A more common word is “lying”. Everyone knows what it is, and most everyone does it.
In journalism, students are taught, correctly too, that there are two form of deception, or lying (or ‘sins’) — the “sin of deception”, and the “sin of omission”. They are both just basically lying.
You can write or say something you know is false (deception), or you can leave out the parts of the story that you don’t want to be heard (omission). Most lying is done through omission, as this is considered less bad.
In a court of law in the US, they ask you to swear an oath promising to “tell the truth, the whole truth (the omission part), and nothing but the truth (the deception part), so help you God!” If you lie outright, and are caught, that’s a big no-no, but filling in the whole story is done more with the prodding of a skillful cross-examining attorney.
Osho was one of the few people who lied even to his own disciples, and admitted to it publicly. A master has that right, and that compassion for his disciples, according to him. Maybe so. Is there any rulebook for the Master/disciple game?
I would say most lies in everyday life are omitting the part of the truth you don’t want your audience to hear — maybe 99%. It’s can be easily justified, because how can anyone tell the whole story about anything, it can be shown to be nearly impossible to do.
But deceiving someone by telling a outright and blatant untruth is less common, and much harder to do also. If you are caught, your credibility is basically shot, and will take a long time to mend, even if you want it to be repaired.
Look at this Inner Circle story. It is more holes than substance. Noone speaks. I have never heard a documentary desciription from anyone involved, of an actual Inner Circle meeting. Never. I mean, what happened … did Jayesh slam the gavel, and then say, “Ok, Sodexo is now going to take over the cafeteria operations and bed-making in the hotel. Everyone for, say “Yeah”, …everyone against say “Nay”.
Has to be a consensus. If Ma Mukta holds out, then what happens, do they reconvene the next day after some arm-twisting, and try the vote again?
No one knows. No one talks. Maybe the whole Inner Cicle thing was just bogus from the get-go. There never were any meetings. That’s why people left, there was nothing to do. I think most sannaysins don’t know the full story of Pune 1, the Ranch, Pune 2, Osho’s death, Pune 1990-2000, or Pune 2000-2010. And that’s the way Osho wanted it, it looks like.
But if you leave the “t” out of Fred Flintstone’s name, that’s probably neither an indiscretion or a deception — just a typo.
I was thinking though, that “Yahba” could be the third stage of Osho Mystic Rose — the witnessing stage. Yahoo(1st stage), Yaboo (2nd stage), and YahBuddha (3rd stage), shortened by deleting some letters to ‘Yahba’.
Possible.
Bob, can you elobrate your theory regarding, “I think most sannaysins don’t know the full story of Pune 1, the Ranch, Pune 2, Osho’s death, Pune 1990-2000, or Pune 2000-2010. And that’s the way Osho wanted it, it looks like.”
Deception Point – Dan Brown
A slippery slope has the quality of taking a person from one domain to a separate domain – by definition. An indiscretion is a temptation and yes that is Osho’s unique contribution. Buddhism (and Islam and Christianity) says do not be tempted; Osho (and Tantra and Sufism) says be tempted. Buddhism attempts to help a person by providing a mechanism for restraint, while Osho tries to help a person by providing a mechanism for tasting. The goal is the same, but the directions to reach the goal are opposing.
Look at all the Osho sannyasins that indulged in all kinds of things: sex, drugs, and rock’n roll. How many people went too far? This is the downside of Osho’s approach – over-indulgence in Zorba like hedonism. The downside of Buddhism is the effect of pushing an individual into a narrow, confined, lifeless repression. Such a person will see all acts of creatively exploring one’s nature as hedonistic. This is why there exists Islamic terrorism. At one extreme one cannot see the difference between boundaries at the other end of the spectrum.
Yes an indiscretion is by nature conscious. However when the mind uses this quality, there is the possibility of making decisions that are considered a deception, though the decision is still conscious. An example is that a person who comes to Osho might develop and act on the idea that they can be married, yet not tell their spouse that they are having other partners. They might call this an indiscretion, but their spouse might think otherwise, and divorce them when they find out (or commit a crime of passion!). Of course any style of open relationship that is honest and truthful cannot be called a deception.
There is also the possibility, once going down this road, of opening up powerful emotions that trigger us to commit an unconscious act, one which we are compelled to carry out even though it goes against our deepest inclinations. What this means is that a person going down such a road needs support and guidance and a stable social environment. Without this, crimes get committed (in the name of Osho).
The point at which an indiscretion becomes a deception is the essence of Osho’s approach, and to know the point within ourselves is what he was guiding all his people towards.
As far as the Inner-Circle and its secret operations go, it requires little investigation to come up with the following. A deep rift occurred between the Hollywood Mystics and some other members of the Inner-Circle. Talk to any old-timer and it is common knowledge. Even more public was the rift between the Delhi Devotees and the remaining Inner-Circle members. Clearly, in both cases, consensus was not able to be attained, and the organisation as a whole was unable to move forward. Admittedly consensus is a difficult attainment, and if nothing moves (for examples some people leave and do their own thing), the result could easily be stagnation. The question here is was anyone working outside of Osho’s guidelines. If it can be shown that they were being entirely unreasonable, and that the other parties were working (or wanting to work) within Osho’s guidelines and were being reasonable, then the former party is in the wrong and the latter party (or parties) are justified in their complaint and subsequent action (leaving the Inner-Circle).
It happened to be that one faction included the Chairmen and vice-Chair of the Inner-Circle. Hence, it naturally happened that the opposing factions (and possibly other individuals), were the ones that left. If Kaveesha or Keerti were chair of the circle, Jayesh and Amrito would have been the ones turfed out – unless they decided to stay and battle on.
The real issue is the nature of the differences that created the seemingly irreconcilable differences.
From my take on JA & Gang, they have in recent times been operating outside the scope of Osho’s guidelines for the Inner-Circle. Also, they have in recent times taken practical decisions that are both negligent and criminal in nature. If either or both of these elements was part of a pre-existing pattern, and was the cause of the other parties or individuals leaving, then JA & Gang have, since the outset till today, been illegitimately and wrongfully controlling the Inner-Circle group, and the other parties or individuals are justified in their actions. In other words these other parties are justified in not trying to work towards a consensus – if that consensus would have included having contravened Osho’s guidelines for operation and/or contravened basic ethical standards and the law.
With respect to these other parties or individuals, if it is demonstrated that they have not acted in a manner that contravenes Osho’s guidelines for functioning within the Inner-Circle, they therefore to this day have grounds for (collectively) re-forming the Osho Inner-Circle. Of course I have no idea what these people have been up to, so this conclusion is a postulation not a stipulation.
Shantam, what I am saying here is that you do not have the right to slam the Hollwood Mystics nor the Delhi Devotees (nor any other individuals that left in quiet protest), if they were trying to do the right thing, and a bunch of criminals was hell-bent on doing the wrong thing.
Yahoo
Abhay
Hollywood Mystics and the Delhi Devotees and Anglo Saxon Managers etc. all are needed for a Jungle of His dreams.
But too much power in the hands of managers has downgraded the magic of His work.
And i sincerely hope that the people who fought tooth and nail about the easy availability of Osho discourses will not stop the course till the Ashram is also not freed from the clutches of attachment free fanatics.
Pune, the dream place of Osho should be run as a jungle and not as a flowerist´s shop. So simple is the voice of protest.