Someone in the SN collective has come across this. It is disturbing if genuine.
Introduction: Ma Yoga Mukta (Catherine Venizelos,) is always referred to as the Greek Shipping Heiress. But an heiress, doesn’t mean you have the money! Actually since the seventies she was always referred to as an “heiress”. This always seemed an unusual appendage given it often went with the claim that Mukta funded the original purchase of Koregoan Park. (this is disputed is several quarters as might be supported in what Osho says immediately here ).
Ma Yoga Mukta
Osho said
“Mukta is one of those unwavering people that have become very rare in the world. She had not come for me; she had come just to accompany another sannyasin. That other sannyasin has disappeared long ago….
But Mukta is made of a different metal. She had come with that sannyasin just to see India; she had no conscious intention even to meet me. She came to see me just accidentally because that woman was coming to see me. And miracles happen in the world: that woman is lost, and Mukta has never left me for a single moment—here, in America, going around the world. She has left her home, she has left her husband, she has left her children, she has left all the inheritance that her old father has left for her. She never went there to get that heritage; her other sister has swallowed the whole thing.
She has never complained about anything. She has never differed in her mind for a single moment; she has passed from disciplehood to the state of devotee long ago.
So it may have been, Mukta, that “the other morning you looked so young in my eyes. I love you”—but I have been loving you for twenty years. I can remember the first day you entered into my room in Bombay. Sitting on the sofa, I had a very clear perception that you had not come with Pratima, that sannyasin, but that Pratima had come with you, my future sannyasin.
And the same day Mukta became a sannyasin.
Such unwavering trust and love is the only miracle worth calling a miracle. Jesus walking on water is not a miracle”.
Something from Mukta herself just this last week: (2015)
Beloved Friends,
Nearly 45 years ago I received from Osho a begging- bowl, looking something between a cow and a tea- pot. He said it is hundreds of years old and instructed me to take it wherever I go. So I took it through the streets of Bombay and on and off somebody placed some rupees in it. Today, being 87- years old and suffering from Parkinson- disease, I need the begging- bowl again.
More than ten years ago my daughter Elena Bargheer (“Neeta”) placed me under guardianship in Greece, where I have not lived since 1945. She claimed that I committed prodigal conduct in the amount of five million Euros through supporting Osho. She is now together with Maria Venizelos (“Seema”) and her husband Norman Hartford Goldstein (“Sid”) controlling my assets in Greece.
In 2009 I received about one million Euros in Greece, but they refused to transfer this to Austria. So I got an Austrian guardian, but he and the Austrian Court were also not informed about my wealth and have not received a Cent. In 2012 my daughters started to pay for my apartment and the care- takers, but not for food or medication, etc…. In October last year they stated that all my money has “leaked out”. The police and prosecution are informed. Still, I need my begging- bowl, to be filled again. Otherwise I cannot keep my apartment.
My Austrian guardian has an account, where you can send your contributions:
„SW Catherine Mathilda Gregos vertreten durch Dr. Gerhard Ebner“
The account details:
IBAN: AT13 5700 0300 5326 2241, BIC: HYPTAT22.
The Austrian guardian signs loan agreements for those contributing more than € 5.000. The interest rate is 3%. In this case please contact my Austrian guardian directly:
(office@ewr-anwaelte.at)
When I leave my body, these loans will be part of my heritage. If I die after the 17th of August 2015, my whole heritage (including in Greece) will be dealt with in Austria, so there is no risk of “Greek corruption”.
This crowd funding was authorized by the Austrian guardian, Dr. Gerhard Ebner, Innsbruck.
Lots of Love from Ma Yoga Mukta
Many wont know who Mukta is/was:
Here is something from 1971, from Osho to Mukta.
Here’s a younger pic of Mukta:
Mukta was unfortunately going through this stuff in Eressos ten years back also.
There is a long-running Greek drama here. Sannyasins involved in a desperate family squabble? Really?? Mother and daughter this time. Things have been said about this in my earshot that are unprintable, whether true or untrue, and it is sad nevertheless. Accusations of a million euros that has ‘dripped away’? Followed by counter-accusations and needed re-assurances? Oh dear. Parkinson’s to boot. Oh dear, oh dear.
I wish her well – trusting also that the needed transparencies be remedied in law urgently, but I guess she tried that and spent a fortune on legal fees maybe, already. With those counter-allegations that cannot be mentioned online consisting of their own rationale.
It’s known that legal fees are acute in these situations. I’m partial to complete transparency in law, in the event of all else failing. Wealthy dynasties are historically susceptible to legal haggling as a means of unresolved tensions, otherwise.
And despite me wanting to keep going on about swans in cellophane.
By the way, that’s one helluva poetic message from Osh. Full of repose. Whilst the call to attention, let alone action or a new-found core truth reference in oneself, is, at the very least (on the left-hand page top) almost stentorian in its delivery and obligation. Lucky he never went to public school. If you want to know what an enlightened Indian with a public school voice sounds like, listen to Krishnamurti. Great fun. Stentorian too.
Poetic expression reaches the parts ordinary prose cannot reach.
I imagine that some money from Mukta did help the early ashram, though it looks like there are those who consider this now not so much – and not so likely.
As someone who arrived in Poona in 1974, I was aware of people like Mukta being around.
I am grateful if their wealth meant Osho had a good place to do his work, and am grateful for my own time there, which seemed so uncomplicated and inexpensive- and because the infrastructure at that time was being so generously supported.
If she is suffering in any way, then it would seem good to help her. She must be really quite elderly now, and Parkinson’s is no joke.
Yes, I recall Mukta being a gracious, welcoming presence in those early days, in fact she and Laxmi both made me feel I ‘belonged’ there, helping to allay a certain ‘fish-out-of-water’ feeling, which I appreciated, having arrived nervous and ‘green’. In this case, Martyn’s Maya Angelou quote is a perfect fit.
She deserves whatever help she needs, no question whatsoever.
Can’t help thinking OIF (or whoever controls the finances) should help her with this.
Yes, SD, totally with you on this.
Beloved Mukta,
Love.
I hope you are fine. We appreciate you have not spoken anything against us.
You know, it is our policy, Resort is for young and vibrant people on the path.
It is not an old people´s home.
We would have done the same to Osho too. Master knew it.
This too will pass.
Love and big warm hug from Global Connections. Just to tell you we had a huge party on New Year. 500 visitors came just from Mumbai. Osho´s work is spreading.
His Blessings,
Ma Dumb Kopf
Mukta at the main-gate of the commune in the early 90s.
Shantam, you bring tears.
Once Mukta shared with me that when the house was bought after Osho’s approval He asked her which room she liked the best and when she told him which one He said that she should have it. She declined & said that was for him, so He asked her to have the room above his room.
Mukta is a symbolic case how organisations built by visionaries start sucking. Organisations in the name of Osho are the world´s biggest suckers, for this reason: Osho built his career by hammering the drawbacks of other religions, cults and sects operating in the name of departed ones. More than 35 years He was speaking and creating.
And end result:
Existence and the State takes care!
P.S:
Arpana being Greek and faithful disciple of clergy can give some hints to her about British social security and NHS.
She deserves more than all the Pakis and Punjabis.
People like you are being kept away, Shantam booby, so the management must be doing something right.
Arpana,
Do you read what you write?
Have you ever felt embarrassed?
Is there is a single sentence where some grace of Osho comes out, some rebellious spirit, some compassion?
And you claim to read Osho every day, listen His discourse everyday.
May I suggest?
Read something published from the area of Soho, London!
Shantam booby
Do you read what you write?
Have you ever felt embarrassed?
Is there is a single sentence where some grace of Osho comes out, some rebellious spirit, some compassion?
When I read Mukta’s begging-bowl post on Facebook I thought, well, there’s a turn-up for the Osho books. Plenty has been said about Mukta, in terms of singing her praises. All I will say is that I spoke to her many times, although never in any real depth. She had an air about her that was interpreted by me as being symptomatic of someone who understood the folly of over-identification with wealth and as result pursued a simple and peaceful life, minus the complications that wealth often brings. She took obvious pleasure in tending the garden, hosepipe in hand, watering the hollow bamboos, the sweet scent of fresh water evaporating on hot stone.
Being young and impressionable at the time I suppose I was a bit awestruck by her presence. She never made a big deal out of herself and always had time for a kind word with a nobody like me. Now she is on Facebook seeking financial aid.
Mukta has put a very human face on a basic flaw in the Sannyas community that I had to come to terms with thirty years ago. I don’t know how it is now, but when I was actively involved with the Sannyas community I felt like I was part of the most beautiful extended family in the world. And then one day the dream was shattered. It was serious and life-threatening illness that woke me up to the reality of my situation.
Sannyas from when I knew it at one of its peaks was like surfing on a tsunami of bliss. Everyone concerned was riding that fantastic wave of energy. Then one day I fell off my board into the turbulent undercurrents. Welcome to Hell. Thanks to the help of a few real friends and my family back in Scotland I came through what was one of the greatest crises of the constant change I call my life. I survived and prevailed.
There has been always something very selfish existing in the sannyasin community, along the lines of taking care of oneself and taking little real care of those around you, apart from a passing sympathetic hug and some words of borrowed wisdom you really do not need to hear. If you were blissed out, everyone was with you. If you were not doing so well it was all to do with karma, negativity, resistance etc. and nobody was much interested in you.
I have lived on both sides of that fence and have been a very self-centred egoist in my time. You have to live it to know the ins and outs of that particular state of ignorance.
Looking back, Mukta and Laxmi were two jewels in Osho’s communal crown. Last I heard of Laxmi, she was selling chappatis in New York’s streets before shrugging off the mortal coil that she never appeared too comfortable in. Now we have Mukta posting a plea for financial help on Facebook, of all places.
It is not tragic. Tragedy is starving to death at the side of a dusty road, watching your children dying of malnutrition, becoming a refugee in a war-torn land. Mukta’s plight is not that extreme. I see it as disgraceful that a founding member of the commune has been reduced to the undignified position that she is now in. In a better world she should be honoured and taken care of for what she put into the Sannyas movement on a number of levels, including financial. What form this should take remains to be seen.
If she does not receive the help she rightfully deserves it signals yet another level of bankruptcy in the sannyasin world. Sannyas is a society within a greater society. Any society that does not take care of its elderly is morally bankrupt. Not only that, it is also short-sighted, for unless we die young we are all destined to grow old and often as not come become dependent on the help generated by others.
I wish Mukta to receive not just help and support, but also to receive the respect that a remarkable and dignified woman like her deserves. It would be good to see a happy ending to this particular story.
This is quite a sober and wise post.
Unfortunately, those who hanged around Osho till the last day and years later are unable to express in this way.
They sniff Osho books, copy/paste and tell great romantic stories.
Good and detailed post, Lokesh, and made all the more cogent by the fact you knew her in those early days. I also felt that her relaxation and joy in gardening was significant.
Lokesh,
Now I can relax here, reading your long contribution to the topic; my yesterdays went more or less into same direction (but more flooded by emotions and identifications), plus the thanks to Prem Martyn for his complex stance re the whole matter in the beginning.
My post disappeared yesterday into a void, was sucked or edited, I don´t know and I happily don´t care now. (MOD: IT WAS sucked)
Seeing your contribution of late afternoon, thank you for putting stuff straight, so to say.
Madhu
“There has been always something very selfish existing in the sannyasin community, along the lines of taking care of oneself and taking little real care of those around you” – Lokesh.
Correct. The Sannyas community is not a social service organisation, nor is it a family. Neither society nor family understand the flight of the alone to the alone. A sangha does.
“If you were blissed out, everyone was with you. If you were not doing so well it was all to do with karma, negativity, resistance etc. and nobody was much interested in you.” Lokesh.
This seems an unfair generalisation. At least, it was not my experience in the commune. For example, I once had a persistent case of diarrhoea. After three weeks I was in pretty bad shape. Someone in the Sannyas community looked after me, someone I had never met before. I did not receive lectures on “karma, negativity, resistance.” I only received love (in the form of food preparation and ayurvedic treatment). The instances of love and care far outweigh the instances of neglect or reproach.
And that is all the more remarkable because Osho taught selfishness… until love bloomed and overflowed of its own accord. That kind of love is authentic. That love is not familial, i.e. not an obligation from being blood kin. That love is not moral, i.e. not a result of following a religious commandment. That love is not political, i.e. not a result of hoping to gain brownie points to get into Heaven.
” “If you were blissed out, everyone was with you. If you were not doing so well it was all to do with karma, negativity, resistance etc. and nobody was much interested in you.” (Lokesh)
This seems an unfair generalisation.”
No, not necessarily unfair at all, Samarpan, and I note that you cite a positive experience inside the Sannyas commune, in a perhaps somewhat ‘rarified’, even relatively ‘privileged’ situation (part of a team, close-knit and depending on each other?).
I recognise my own experience, for example, in Lokesh’s statement, although I realise it’s hard to cope with someone in prolonged depression or whatever form a major personal crisis might take.
And I well recall a high-profile London/Medina Sannyas commune female therapist’s absurdly insensitive, utterly useless advice in the mid-80s to my girl-friend, a veteran of Sannyas communes in England and Pune, who was undergoing a severe and prolonged psychic disturbance: “Go out and enjoy yourself – you’re supposed to be a sannyasin!”
And yes, she charged for that load of gratuitous garbage, with its implicit assumption and communication of personal failure on the part of her poor client…Following the Great Sannyas Spiritual Way of unbridled selfishness, I suppose (while – excuse my total cynicism – for all my friend might have known, probably impatiently thinking about who she’d like to fuck that night, or whatever other self-indulgence she’d got lined up)…
Such an ethos was bound to create, or at least, ignore ‘casualties’, which, given that many sannyasins had significant personality/emotional etc, difficulties, burdens from dysfunctional families – yet were still welcomed in the movement (which so readily appeared to be a wonderful new, substitute family) – is or was a quite serious flaw in the set-up (especially if one was one of the ‘damaged’).
Osho gave sannyas to all, in that sense he created a ‘level playing field’ – but the reality of the situation was that some were, shall we say, ‘less equal than others’ – and suffered as a result.
Samarpan, you are correct in saying my statement is a generalisation. Whether or not it is particularly unfair is debatable.
A persistent case of diarrhoea is no fun, I know, but in my case I was dealing with something far more serious. At one point, in Ruby Hall Clinic, Poona, my brain was one degree fahrenheit from overheating and my basic motor systems breaking down, which, had it not been for some good German chemicals, would have resulted in death. I was paralyzed for some months and at one point wished I had died rather than face the monumental journey that might one day return me to health. It took me 18 months to manage to learn how to tie my shoe laces again and garner the strength to do so.
I did receive help from some surpising directions.
The thing is, when fighting a deadly illness one needs dedicated support and commitment over a long period of time. Nobody except real friends and family was willing to supply that. I take responsibility for that, I lived the life I loved, reaped the seeds I’d sown and I learned my lessons well.
One casts seeds in life, some fall on barren ground. One does not always recognize barren ground, mistaking it for something fertile. It takes hard-earned experience to understand that. Many people pass through life completely unaware of such realities. I did not consciously ask to be taught that, it just panned out that way.
Brownie points? I have no need of such a thing. I was kicked out of the Cubs for burning the Cub House down and so it has continued right down the line. I suppose rebelliousness comes natural to me.
There’s a rumour on facebook that her account is hacked by her ex-boyfriend. Here is a post from Neelamber Amrit on FB:
Neelamber Amrit February 6 at 2:05pm ·
I would like to write a warning. The account of Ma Yoga Mukta is hijacked by her ex boyfriend Antaro. I have also been informed that he is trying to squeeze as much money out of her as possible. Mukta is suffering from dementia since a long time. More than 8 years. I am certain that she is not able to write in facebook at all. In my opinion Mukta deserves all the support she can get. But I am against any kind of greedy exploitation. love Neelamber
Also, he later posted:
Antaro, the man who has total power over Mukta’s legacy, has removed me from his list of friends: this is the conversation we had in fb:
Neelamber Amrit:
I know for sure that the person writing is not even close to Mukta any more. It is her ex-boyfriend Antaro that created this account. He dumped her after the money did not flow anymore. Even when I met her in Pune some 8 years ago she could not remember for 5 minutes with whom she wanted to sit in the restaurant. No way she can write this and the wording is not at all her Greek expression. And the begging bowl is his. That is what he is doing.
Ma Anand Divyo:
Well done…thank you…I hope she is being taken care of….
Ma Yoga Mukta:
You are off the wall, Neelamber Amrit.
Chandani Peperkamp:
If this is true, Neelamber Amrit, then it is really a sick joke and bad karma for this Antaro, this is no way to behave with Osho’s sangha!
Neelamber Amrit:
Now Antaro is angry because I have exposed his greed. Mukta would never give such an answer. Not in public. She has always been a distinguished woman. From a wealthy family that knows how to behave. This is the reaction of an habitually angry Austrian guy.
She has dementia, more than Parkinson’s, so it is likely not her writing that status on facebook.
And I said I’d heard within my earshot “things that couldn’t be repeated online.” Hooray, I was wrong, somebody not only has said it, but has provided some sort of allegation evidence for it.
Mukta was warned of this in Eressos and that ex-boyfriend (at the time boyfriend) guy was chucked out of the place when he turned up.
It’s all happening on SN.
Amrito
Surely you are not Dr. Amrito.
I even don´t know whether you have ever seen Mukta other than in her photos.
I actually met her once in the Resort in 2007. Sweet lady, she seemed very off (symptoms of dementia). However, when I greeted her and told her I was very happy to meet her (I saw many photos prior in books/videos etc). I can still remember she eerily looked at me and said “You can still feel the fragrance of Osho here, the energy is still very much here….”
You don’t have any concerns about pronouncing someone you had just met to be suffering from symptoms of dementia.
You’re a doctor I take it.
Not a doc – but have spent time volunteering at one point at a nursing home – definitely seemed like it.
So you approach a stranger in 2007, invade her privacy, and the only explanation you can up with to explain that she was a ‘bit off’, is that she was showing signs of dementia.
You couldn’t make it up.
Arpana; in the words of the clown from Batman , “why so serious ?”
You diagnosed, a complete stranger, who you met for a few moments, to be showing signs of dementia, because she seemed a bit off with you, and you want to know why I am so serious.
Really!?!?!?!
Relax, Arpana, it’s only the traditional sannyasin faux-naive “you’re too serious, man” bullshine: a perfect excuse to avoid being responsible for anything.
So what, Arpana. You are showing signs of psychosis right now
! I never actually thought “symptoms of dementia” in 2007, but definitely saw her behaviour somewhat different. It’s just recently when Neelamber mentioned it that it and it made sense based on that one little experience. No one disagrees she needs everyone’s support, just hope she is not taken advantage of.
@ satyadeva
12 February, 2015 at 2:16 am
A Shantam booby clone.
Arps, probably I am not the only one getting this (12 February, 2015 at 5:39am comment) one!
Hey, you’re far too prickly, far too serious. Chill out, life’s just a play, man.
On the basis of a few moments meeting with a stranger, eight years ago, you have now decided the woman whose space you invaded was off with you because she was showing signs of dementia; and so certain are you of your diagnosis, on the basis of that few moments meeting years ago, you are happy to go around broadcasting that on the internet. (A diagnosis no professional would make, especially based on those circumstances, let alone talk about such a diagnosis publicly).
And you have suggested I am psychotic for calling you out.
You need to read up on projection.
I’m not certain at all, nor have I claimed it. If someone is ‘calling out’ the situation that has SannyasNews put this article up, which is claimed to be from Mukta, it’s worth a consideration.
Again, don’t shoot the messenger. Neelamber, who originally made this public on his facebook page, seems to have a closer relationship with Mukta than you or I, and he warned all of his friends etc. I’m sure he didn’t do it to harm Mukta, but protect her from possible fraud and manipulation. Arpana, take a chill pill.
Spare me your cool, laid back schtik.
You came here with your gossip.
Hey, boys,this is turning into an epic battle!
Serious v non-serious.
You decide!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6G6CZT7h4k
Kavita says:
12 February, 2015 at 5:55 am (Edit)
Arps, probably I am not the only one getting this (12 February, 2015 at 5:39am comment) one!
Not sure what you mean by this, Kavita.
Arps, I mean the bullshine discoverer, aka SD, is using this opportunity to show his one-upmanship .
He’s a very naughty boy, Kavita.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plZRe1kPWZw
Amazing (sarcastically said), Amrito, I will be looking forward to the comments of the Facebook Kings here at this website, or moderators or editors, who also like to be quite choosy to educate in a way. But not everybody. Otherwise, since I joined, I saw rarely posts of yours.
May I ask you, what has been your concern to share that with us? As far as I presume, nobody here really can validate anything of the given information in a drama, and a drama the whole story is altogether, and fucking IT misuse you mention, anyway.
Sad.
Madhu
Heard through the grapevine that her ex-boyfriend has her power of attorney, and is doing this for a nice cash-grab!
Gossip is so helpful.
What a classy, spiritually evolved individual you are.
Osho never promoted the ‘holier than thou’ types anyways – so thanks
.
He didn’t promote adolescent gossiping either.
Don’t shoot the messenger. The facebook transcript is from Neelamber Amrit, who knows Mukta personally. It’s worth a consideration when looking at the context of the situation.
dementia
dɪˈmɛnʃə/Submit
nounMEDICINE
A chronic or persistent disorder of the mental processes caused by brain disease or injury and marked by memory disorders, personality changes, and impaired reasoning. (google)
I am wondering how any human being can be saved from getting this at any /some stage of their life!
Common Man´s party in Delhi has destroyed Narendra Modi´s ego in an unprecedented and in a spectacular way. Rich and poor, elites and street dwellers joined hand together and gave AAP party 67 seats out of 70.
My question is can Osho movement´s leadership dare to face the disciples’ voice?
Most probably, no.
Let us pass a resolution that Mukta should get her room back in the ashram. She is the one who deserves to leave her body in the ashram.
Will Jayesh regime take notice?
Most probably, no.
It means it is alive only in books and in audio/video. Pixel Sannyas movement; what one listens from Osho – Plastic Rose Flowers!
Nothing to do with the string, moderator?? As a number of Shantam’s posts invariably are.
I am very surprised at this result, Shantam. The AAP party was only formed in 2012. Someone must have been doing some hard work.
One hopes that Modi will be defeated in a general election in the same way.
You seem to endlessly want to politicise what is happening at the Resort, now invoking voting. Absolutely crazy. Osho always said the ashram was not some kind of political organisation. He told a friend of mine to leave because he saw it in too political terms back in 1978…Don’t you ever learn that this is not what it is about?
Krishna said, Krishna said, Krishna said,
Buddha said, Mahavira said, Queen´s great-great-great grandfather said…
Osho said, Osho said, Osho said…
Is there a limit to dumbness?
Osho must have said something about Mukta too?
Throw her out on her own, when she needs a shelter the most.
The Inner Circle is a form of political body, is it not?
(MOD: SOME EDITING HERE)
Maybe more clear for you Shantam, the ashram/Resort, whatever stage it is in, is a Mystery School. I thought most people had got that.
You don’t vote in Mystery Schools.
The organisation, such as it is, is the complete servant of the Mystery School. Of course, sadly, that has not always been the case, certainly between ’81 and ’85. But on the whole it has been.
Parmartha, it is my policy not to hurt religious feelings of others, whether Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs or sannyasins.
Where beliefs become more important than writings on the wall, it is better to hug the wall than to discuss. In 2015, Resort is as synonymous to mystery school as Islam means Peace.
I also understand, for few people, Elvis is still alive. His soul sings in their ears.
Oh, Kavita, scientists in labs are working to the fullest, with rats and other beings like human beings too. As well as a whole legal and administration bureaucracy, also many jobs available as ´caretakers´, taking also care of (any) of the decisions of the client (that’s how they are called now; a growing industry which you can become aware of in big cities like here).
Otherwise: It is not rare these days, not at all, that in families wherere some members are in greed to get a grip on a fortune or an heritage, or a grip de plus on the human rights of a member they don´t like, these kind of people then like to have a legal stamp to do what they do and have some doctors legalizing that. ( Even when this doctor has never seen the´admin´ prescribed).
Not rare at all this happening like in a crime story. But who has the time to care…or is willing too?
Kavita, I cannot believe that you are naive or not informed at all.
Concerning Mukta, I can only pray that honest and loving friends are around her. And it seems to be that way.
Madhu
Oh dear, I was being sarcastic; after reading Neelambar Amrit’s comment I should have mentioned the context.
I assure you we both hope for the same, Madhu. Sorry if you thought otherwise.
“She has dementia, more than Parkinson’s, so it is likely not her writing that status on facebook.”
Just to be specific – & Madhu, I think I had mentioned this recently directly to you – I just needed to clarify in case I also suffer from dementia (who knows, maybe I already have it? Only hope it’s not contagious!).
Mod, about the facebook part.
MOD: WHAT ABOUT IT, Kavita?
Never mind, mod, maybe it’s my way of going through it, what is being said about Mukta. I guess however much I/we feel for anyone’s plight, it’s our own plight, I guess.
Osho and Mukta
Osho and Mukta 2
Thanks, Vartan, moving pic. Halcyon days, I still remember them well.
How precious, Bodhi Vartan, and how intimate too. And the most important, what a difference to all the multiple ´selfies´ flooding nowadays the internet world.
These pics indeed belong to a Noah’s Ark of Consciousness.
Thanks for sharing this – and hopefully with Mukta´s consent.
Madhu
P.S:
One loves Him in this, one loves Her in this, and one is bound to fall in Love with a climate beyond both – precious moments….
So true, Kavita, and essential too, that you are reminding of what is triggered in us when we are on the hook of an issue posted, and then comment.
One does not need to suffer ´dementia´ to encounter a situation to be exploited and taken advantage of by people greedy as power-stricken and/or very, very cunning.
Being capable to read quite honest and deep sharings on the topic, like from Lokesh, Satyadeva, Prem Martyn and yes, also Amrito, have been simply giving me a kind of ´bigger frame, a support, not to get stuck in one’s own stories.
Sharings are very valuable this way, to overcome situations where you may feel alienated. I am immensely grateful for this kind of sharing.
And not to forget in midst of it all the sharing of blissful, mysteriously everlasting ´moments´ too (as seen in the pics).
All on some caravanserai tables.
Then have a TEA
And be still.
Madhu
Shantam booby.
A cat was run over by a car in Tasmania last week.
Obviously, Jayesh was to blame.
All part of his evil strategy to destroy Osho’s work and prevent you taking over as Osho’s rightful heir.
Arpana! (@12.48 pm)
BIG SMILE – little laughter too, what else to do? (I simply don´t like the ready-made smileys)….
Have a beautiful day.
Madhu
Now that your hijacking of Mukta’s story, to manipulate us into removing Jayesh from the Ashram, and installing you in his place has failed, why should you care about Mukta?
SD, the discoverer of “bullshine”!
Ma Yoga Mukta
My own experience is, Satyadeva (at 2.16 am) that relaxation worth calling it that way, cannot be ordered, sure, you can be invited to give a let-go innumerable times, but as long as uncomfortable truth´bits are not in the light, being acknowledged and understood, integrated into one´s body as also in a collective body, the whole processing of integration goes like a yo-yo (yes, no, yes, no…).
By the way, sannyasins are not the only ones who have tendencies to behave like you mentioned, it’s just much more more easy to detect.
Yesterday, I loved the relaxation I have been gifted with when reading Arpana´s comment, coming up like one of the fabulous Osho jokes which create space, inside outside.
Then – after that – lots of yo-yo ups and downs and ups again…
The very precious in it all has been, and is for me at least, the living rememberance of a Sangha happening, also in virtual realms, the possible support to give each other, just by chatting.
Body has been a bit sick yesterday, all day more or less in bed.
Maybe today a walk cross the river here.
Send you my love to THIS this morning.
Madhu
Re your opening lines, Madhu, I came across this, this morning. Seems pertinent.
BEFORE I KNOW IT MY WATCHER TURNS INTO MY JUDGER. WHAT TO DO?
Don’t judge it. If your watcher becomes a judger, okay. Don’t judge the judger – watch it. If again the judger comes, watch it. Always go on falling back on the watcher; don’t be defeated by the judger.
And don’t be disturbed. It is not a question that you have to not judge. If you force it you will not be happy – you will be suppressed. And whatsoever you will do, the judger will be there – no matter how you force, suppress. No! Release it! If a thought comes, and another thought follows and becomes a judgment, watch the judgment also. Always go on falling into the watcher – that’s the whole thing.
If again the judger comes, let it come. Don’t be afraid. You are always free to become a watcher again. The whole method of watching is not to be deceived and not to be distracted by the judger.
Let it be there, there is no condemnation about it. What can you do if the judger comes? What can you do? There is nothing to do. You can again become a watcher. Let it go on and on. The judger is going to be lost somewhere, and then the watcher will be centered. It is going to be a long process, because you have always been helping the judger to come in. For many lives, for thousands of years, you have always been getting identified with the judger. So the judger does not know that you have changed your mind. It will still be coming for a few years.
It depends on you. If you go on falling to the watcher, sooner or later the judger will understand that it is no more needed – an unwelcome guest. It will knock at your door a few times, but the knock will become feebler and feebler and feebler. One day, seeing that you are no more interested in it, the judger disappears. You cannot suppress it.
Osho.
The True Sage.
Ch. 10
“My own experience is, Satyadeva (at 2.16 am) that relaxation worth calling it that way, cannot be ordered, sure, you can be invited to give a let-go innumerable times, but as long as uncomfortable truth´bits are not in the light, being acknowledged and understood, integrated into one´s body as also in a collective body, the whole processing of integration goes like a yo-yo (yes, no, yes, no…).”
Now that’s what I call really serious. Lighten up, ma, get the joke. Are you a sannyasin, or what?
“By the way, sannyasins are not the only ones who have tendencies to behave like you mentioned, it’s just much more easy to detect.”
But they’re a large group of people who’ve made ‘non-seriousness’ into a credo, a belief. Do you know of another such movement? And, like all credos and beliefs, this one is often enough taken to an extreme, becoming an absurdity in itself. Which, of course, is good for a giggle, innit – you know, ‘be a joke unto thyself’ and all that palaver….
“But they’re a large group of people who’ve made ‘non-seriousness’ into a credo, a belief.”
And are very serious about not being serious.
People like Arpana must be scratching their heads. When Shantam writes something, these people will get feeder.
As per this thread, should we draft a letter for clergy to support Mukta on behalf of Osho´s foundations?
Cool it, man, you’re much too serious.
Another smelly mind fart from Shantambooby, that he thinks is from the heart.
Seemed more like a feeble attempt at a satirical joke, Arps. Perhaps you’re getting too, er, serious?
I’m a bit hyper at the moment. On an energy roll, which is both fantastic and wearing. Can’t stop myself hitting them balls back.
Thank you, Arpana, for taking the effort – and yes, what you choose is pertinent.
Madhu
Satyadeva,
You know much.
However, the knowing, when stuff gets ´out of the joke´ does not come from the mind, and cannot be trained. There can be a nourishing field though to let it grow. It’s a living thing.
Precious also.
Madhu
“the knowing, when stuff gets ´out of the joke´” – My God, indeed an extremely serious scenario, Madhu…You’ve really put the wind up me there…Now, where’s that ‘Best Osho Jokes, A Compendium’? Ah yes, there it is, in the bathroom…That’s the rest of the day sorted…I’ll be all right soon….
To return to the point apparently in dispute:
Is it or is not true that the traditional sannyasin faux-naive “you’re too serious, man” bullshine is often used as a perfect excuse to avoid being responsible for anything?
Or is it, well, just too sort of ‘serious’ a topic to, y’know, bother about? Perhaps also ‘too close to home’ for comfort, Kavita?
SD, to me, not all topics can be taken seriously or lightly whatever the case be, but to be honest, only when I think or feel any connection I can/I am able to respond with relative intensity, I guess that’s natural to anyone.
Hope it’s ok with you, SD, I am calling it a day; feeling sleepy now, haven’t slept well since two nights. Please don’t say/think I am backing out, because I am not.
Perfectly correct, Satyadeva!
“Laughter is such a transformative force that nothing else is needed” (Osho)
But only in the right hands!
The ancient sages of mighty Bhorat were aware of the possibilities of this explosive release of energy that could be achieved by opening the clown chakra 5000 years ago and those ancient sages developed many highly sophisticated scientific devices to this end at the time when Anglo-Saxon baboons were still shuffling around in their dark, putrid caves with nothing better to laugh at than knob gags!
But remember! All laughter should take place under the auspices of an enlightened master or one of his certified lineage and on the path of enlightenment, the laughter must take place within a few seconds of the punch-line!
There must be no laughing out of the joke!
Ignorant, unconscious disciples need a zen-stick, not a slapstick!
This is a buddhafield, not a ‘Carry-On’ movie!
Yahoo!
Hari Om!
Jus` like that!
It`s a very confused story.
Why is this guy caring for her in the first place?
Is he related to Mukta, her `boyfriend`, or just a carer?
In any case, if she has advancing dementia it won’t make much difference, he will be more than anything a full-time carer.
All I know is that if close family pass care of a dementia sufferer to someone outside the family, expect trouble…especially if the family is rich!
Frank, fyi, and hot from Gossipville…from what I know, Mukta’s awareness levels were not able or willing to detect a con-artist nutter in the guise of a ‘boyfriend’ way back ten years ago, when her first symptoms started showing. I don’t think it’s correct to imply the family asked for her to be taken care of by him.
Another case of all the lovers and loonies being attracted to ‘truth seeking’ as a soft-touch for getting some shortcuts via others’ credulousness…with a little less shown of that proof for being close to the master as being able to discern or giving a toss about Shinola.
Tricky business this blissful living-lark, innit?
MOD: WHAT’S Shinola?
Why not bring this string to a fruitful conclusion, what about small contribution to Mukta´s fund?
For example, Arpana pays 50 cents, Shantam 1 euro, Osho Resorts 1000 Euros, and so on!
Problem is, Shantam, it’s not exactly clear what her situation actually is and whether those supposedly around her can be trusted. Have you read the relevant posts yet?
I have been looking for a translation, Anand Yogi. For that, I want to try to respond , after reading your ´entry´into the deteriorated string.
You came ´late with your ever charming way to give a feed back, but as I am concerned in that kind of soul-kitchen, happening here, you came too late.
But there is always, how to say it , ´rhythm in it…..´isn´t it ?
Here ´we´ go:
NOUN – der Selbstläufer | die Selbstläufer
Selbstläufer {m}
fast-selling item /comm.
Selbstläufer {m} [ugs.]
no-brainer [coll.]
sure-fire success [coll.]
English is not my mother tongue, yet I love this language.
It has been quite a very long time for me the way to talk to people from all over the world, I presumed to be fellow travelers on the way. And friends.
And another point is, that this (english)language has a very poignant way to express stuff, much better sometimes as my german mother tongue .
What I found, when looking for the translation of ´Selbstläufer´ (see above) it mirrors best, what I feel, most of the times (in that past year, since I try to join the virtual chat). Mostly sooner than later, I feel that, felt that.
The secret lust for power , as the lust and greed to take advantage (in technical means) of systemically , systematically induced helplessness of humans, one uses as a means and as targets, dehumanizing them;
this lust and greed can be out´lived´nowadays to an extent, seemingly without any borders.
And is surely corresponding meanwhile with what we call ´real life´ in the body. As nobody is in control distributing private information in a sensitive way.
Its more than less a mobocracy , happening with their ´kings´and queens´and courts and court members as also a huge amount of service slavery.
The show masters and agents to keep it running that way , are mostly well paid.
So-called spiritual schools are not an exception. As above, so below. And vice versa. That is simple old wisdom .
And if cunningness and robbery , taking hostages , or ´celebrating´ritualized murder as a social GAME or as a ´reality soap show´is a motor to this, we need not be surprised , whom we see on stage.
´Soul kitchen´ indeed. heart ragout and other inner organs as favorite dishes. With a lot of blinding dope as an appetizer …
No ´Hari`, no ´OM`, Anand Yogi,
but a long Yabooh (BUUUHHH) !
Madhu
P.S:
All that outburst of mine very easy to tilt, just by editors and moderators, isn´t it?
Otherwise, the Californian version of instant advaita, instant enlightenment and happy go lucky “transforming ” the ancient issue of´be a joke unto yourself´ – into the issue, ´everybody has to serve something´(at least) and serving malicious pleasure is best business for admins and marketenders;
they really know, people just love to have as onlookers a good seat. and a ´good´laughter´ that way.
Special peep shows: …´No brainers´…´Surefire success´..(see above)
with the guarantee of the businessmen/teams that nobody will be responsible.
A Swami who worked in the garden dept. in Poona 1, and with Mukta as his boss, and who is a friend of mine, has written – but wishes to remain anonymous – this tribute to Mukta:
“I really liked Mukta, I found her down-to-earth, friendly and kind. She was always nice to me. I felt that she actually liked me and I was very paranoid in those days. I did some private work for her when she was packed up to go to America, and she gave me some presents which I was very touched by. Sweet lady.”
Mukta’s boyfriend Antaro is a narcissistic pervert. To achieve his ends, he uses harassment and manipulation. This guy is capable of the worst audacities and the worst contortions. He alienated Mukta from her friends and family. Asking for money on Mukta’s behalf is just another one of his scams (no way Mukta was able to write that letter).
Don’t be fooled into giving ‘him’ money. No more than you would be willing to send money to Nigeria via Western Union kind of scams.
I feel sorry for Mukta, and I also feel so sorry for her family that had to deal with that narcissistic sociopath. Good Luck to you.