Osho’s Companion – footnote in History

Why was the death of Osho’s companion, Nirvano (previously Vivek) so hushed up in 1989. What happened to her? She had served Osho with great care over many years… Shantam Prem asks the question

I have just burn the candle near Osho´s photo as this text is pushing inside to come out.
I am aware that this is maybe going to put a few of our fellow travellers in embarrassing position and a few will treat me as a traitor too, but somehow life wants to release the demons under the cover up, so that angels of life could breath again.

Shiva and Parvati, Vishnu and Laxmi, Rama and Sita, Krishna and Radha; Gudiya and Rajneesh they are all part of the history we know.

Nirvano and Osho, they will not come in this category, but at the 20th death anniversary of Osho´s life long companion and disciple Ma Prem Nirvano, is it not worth while to know, what were the cause of her death and why she was cremated in the wee hours of night, when even an ordinary sannyasin, dying in the ashram during that time, was given a grand send off, typical death celebration, and for every small event press was informed with big press releases.

Most of the characters of that time are still alive and without doubt they cremated her without informing anybody to avoid any scandal and to protect the reputation of the master.

Why is human history so full with such false vanity. Things happen, depression is one of the most common diseases. Many people commit suicide because of this. Why not accept this with humility and dignity.

Why do we want to create a false aura around the Master of absolute Truth. When Osho himself has pulled the masks away from all the icons of History, it is unfair to Him and to existence to cover His life with dark Masks.

I request the people who know the truth to come forward and tell the story in its most honest form. We owe this to the spirit of TRUTH.

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164 Responses to Osho’s Companion – footnote in History

  1. oshobob says:

    I remember when i first came on this forum 6 months ago, and said,

    “maybe Nirvano really didn’t die after all”

    and frank fired back,

    “yeah right, maybe Nirvano really didn’t die…
    and Anthony’s really a ten-foot lizard.”

    I remember that like it was yesterday…

  2. amano says:

    there are two thinghs i like to share about nirvano and her death.
    first it was not a suicide because i saw her few days before in evening darshan and she was full of life and celebration…….and that make me beleive that she was in love with life and not want to take her life
    second …..we have to find out who got benefit from death , who was profited by her death . that will help us to find murderer
    love
    amano

  3. Chetna says:

    Shantam I have been wondering the same quite recently. I asked Narendsa Sw from Dheradun and his answer was a suicide. Another old sannyasin added with overdose of heroin and she was found in Jayeshe’s flat.

    Another old sannyasin told me with confidence that she was killed before Osho himself was killed.

    The story stinks either way, but I also feel we should know the truth whatever it is.

    I also heard that Ma Neelam was given money to keep it quiet as she and other old sannyasins know the truth. That’s how she has built the ashram with new cash.

    But all of the above are stories from others. How can I know the truth?

  4. DaVinci says:

    Lets hope we don’t have to wait too long for “The DaVinci Code” version of the Osho-Nirvano (Jesus-Magdalene?) truth…

  5. Prem Abhay says:

    There is only one way to come as close as possible to the truth. What is required is the appointment of a Truth, Justice, and Reconciliation Commission. The commission must be independent and have legally sanctioned investigative powers. It should also transparent in its progressive findings, and have the support of Osho’s people. The more time passes the less chance of knowing the truth, the less chance of calling those people that have committed crimes to account, and the more chance such people will have opportunity to cover up this truth. Unfortunately also is that the unfolding pattern of criminality and corruption is only invited to sustain itself if this process is not abruptly halted. I call on all Osho sannyasins to collectively request such an inquiry, and to collectively boycott the Osho Resort, OIF, and the Inner-Circle, until a complete and transparent investigation is complete. Let no more the ugly pattern of religious corruption cloud the mystic Osho.

    Yahoo
    Abhay

  6. Krish says:

    Friends,

    Our curiosiy may bring to some weired and unfounded coculsions without any proofs. Even Forensic laboratory can not prove the claims about Nirvano’s given high doses of killer drugs. Now even her asshes can not speak to Forensic Laboratory experts…

    There was come controversy over the death of husband of Ma Sheela too. At that time osho was alive. But ultimately it did nothing to enhance or hamper the Osho’s work, or Resort and in the case of this… death of Nirvano… just we will have some waste of money over eqnuiry commision and some media glare will be there….

    And why bring Sw.Narendrabodhisattva’s name now… when he has nothing to with Resort

    In all police, public and politicians will clamor to defame, distort and discuss the ‘death of Nirvano and nothing much will be done.

    Yahoo!

  7. meera says:

    Nirvano was the closest to Osho..
    she was almost like his wife..
    she knew that he is going to leave his body..
    she was unable to bear the pain of him departing
    she had no other friends..
    no interest to cope with this violent people
    who took over and banned all the residencies

    she is already born again as osho told us…
    and she has no more memory of her past life

    she is chosen as the NEW WOMAN

    she will lead the
    new generation
    into a GOLDEN FUTURE
    with the help of the chosen few
    into whom Osho dissolved

  8. Anthony thompson says:

    Ok. I will share what I have done as research about this woman, Vivek , Nirvano. The information i got is from her closest friends and former lovers.

    Vivek was diagnosed with what was called maniac depression, or bipolar sindrome as it is called today. This information was not open and it was kept secret , but her friends knew about it.
    This explained the strange changes of mood she suffered all the time.
    People who lived with her in poona one house saw that all the time. This provoked some out bursts of anger from Osho`s side, as reported by teertha, who lived in the room above osho, and nirgún who worked in the kitchen.
    It was reported to me that osho screamed at her a couple of times. Shunyo, deeksha, and teertha saw this.

    She was Osho´s lover untill 1977, From that time on they stopped their love affair and she moved, on osho´s request, to date other people.

    When Osho came back to Pune, He asked Anando to be his private secretary and care taker ,not Vivek( then nirvano).
    This put a lot of suffering in her life. After all osho had been her only life motive for many years. She was resentful for her not being in the same position as before.

    But osho was tired of her mood swings. althou she was medicated, she did not follow the treatment all the time.

    She was depressed, and consecutively maniac many times. This is why it is hard for some people to understand what happened because they saw her in her manic phase.

    She did not take her medication regularly, which made things worse.
    She left the ashram for europe a couple of times , but finally came back.

    Osho sent her to do the mystic rose ( she never did any therapy in the ashram) and osho thought this would be good for her, but she stayed with dark glasses on and at the back of the room , not interacting with the participants. This was reported to by Gavaksha, Brazilian sannyasin who did the group with her.

    She was dating Jayesh at the time of her death.
    No one knows for sure if she killed herself or took an overdose.
    Osho, was very upset when he found out about her death and assumed it was suicide.
    So, he instructed that no celelebration was to be done for her. and forbade Jayesh, her lover, to go see her in the ghats. Jayesh was very sad, but obeyed osho.

    That is the most reliable information I have got. I have done cross cheking of stories and this is what remains.

  9. frank says:

    hi tony,
    thanks for the stories.
    i would like to know,also:

    any idea who diagnosed her manic depression?
    what was the medication?
    was she on it for a long time?
    who prescribed and supplied it?
    was the overdose of the prescribed drug or another?
    what of her family?
    any still alive at the time,or now?
    what did they think of the high speed burning?

  10. frank says:

    i wonder,also.
    did she really have an ailment called “manic depression”
    or did her life just burn her.
    being a nobody,then being an enlightened man`s consort—-quite a celebrity status in that little world that seemed so big.
    getting the rush of adoration on stage.
    the stabs of the evil eye of envy,too.
    arrested at gupoint ,chased around the world.
    maybe worried at her lover or ex,but how does that work,ex-lover of enlightened guy who has relations mainly predicated on her status,with other “high-ups”
    urggh sounds like an awful kind of celebrity trap.
    his failing health,maybe self-inflicted..
    his close associates supplying him with dangerous levels of medication,it would seem.
    all the secrecy about her “mental health”,for the good of the reputation of the movement?
    she had no life anywhere else,so trapped.

    that could easily all be enough to drive pretty much anyone round the bend,

    in this day and age,she may well have said:
    !i`m a celebrity,get me out of here”

  11. Chetna writes: “I also heard that Ma Neelam was given money to keep it quiet as she and other old sannyasins know the truth. That’s how she has built the ashram with new cash.”

    I have been laughing whole day after reading this. Fiction and fictitiousness and creative or destructive imagination has no limits.

    Shall I add something?

    I imagine that after Osho gave the following words to be inscribed on his Samadhi–Never Born Never Died–she knew for sure that Osho was going to leave body very soon. She could not imagine herself continuing living after he is gone. And it was going to happen quite soon. She was very intuitive. She chose to commit suicide just before that ( something she would not have been able to see it ) . I heard also she was not too happy with the person she was living with (or dating as Anthony writes this).

    Now some quotes mentioning Vivek:

    Vivek again and again says to me, “I don’t want to live a single moment when you are gone.” And I say to her, “Don’t be worried. Even if you want to live, you will not be able to.” Just the other day, Deeksha was saying to Vivek, “Once Osho is gone, I am gone.” That is true.
    The Book of Wisdom
    Chapter #14

    Look at Vivek, who has been with me longest — for fifteen years. When she first came, she was only twenty; now she is thirty-five. Almost half of her life she has been with me. And she has served me with an immense devotion, love, care, such that you can only find in ancient stories about women, not in reality. From the morning when I wake up, till at night when I go to sleep, she is running all around. She has no time of her own, every moment she is devoted. Just to serve me is her joy.
    ………………………………………………………………..

    SOMEONE HAS DARED ME TO ASK YOU THIS IMPERTINENT QUESTION — WHAT DO YOU DO WITH VIVEK? ANYTHING I COULD POSSIBLY UNDERSTAND THROUGH TELLING?

    Osho: IT will be difficult.
    Vivek is so close to me that she is constantly on the cross. She has to be; it is difficult. To be so close to me is arduous. The more you are close to me, the more the responsibility. The more you are close to me, the more you have to transform yourself. The more you feel the unworthiness, the more you start feeling how to become more worthy — and the goal seems almost impossible. And I go on creating many situations. I have to create them because only through friction does integration happen. Only through harder and harder situations does one grow. Growth is not soft; growth is painful.
    You ask me, “What do you do with Vivek?”
    I am killing her slowly. That is the only way for her to get a totally new being, to be reborn. It is a cross to be with me, and hard is the task.

    To be very close to me is to be on the cross. So Vivek has to do her homework, that’s all. That’s what I go on doing to her. Of course, she has to do more homework than ANY of you.
    …………………..

    BELOVED OSHO,
    FOR SOME TIME NOW YOU HAVE BEEN SAYING THAT YOU ARE OUR FRIEND AND WE ARE FRIENDS. I’M HAVING DIFFICULTY IN TRULY GETTING IT.
    OSHO, TO ME YOU ARE MY MOST BELOVED MASTER. PLEASE SHOW ME WHERE I AM MISSING.

    The question is from Vivek.
    I can understand her difficulty.
    The same will be the difficulty of all those who have come close to me, loved me, received me in their hearts as a master.
    I have been saying that I am your friend, and you are my friend for a very strange reason that may not be obvious to you. There was another question from Milarepa — why are a few sannyasins feeling very resentful towards you, angry with you?
    This has been an historical thing, that amongst disciples there are always a few who are accidental. The wind was blowing this way and they arrived. They saw a tremendous energy in the disciples, and they became greedy. But it was not a search for truth, it was not a search for love; it was simple greed. They also wanted to be spiritually powerful.
    They became sannyasins, they became disciples, but the distance between me and them remained the same. They could never become my intimate people. They could never become my people. Even though they were with me, deep down they were resentful, angry. I wanted them to drop their resentfulness, to drop their anger. It was not my problem, it was their problem, and I wanted to help them in every possible way.
    Vivek, you need not be worried about it. Those who love me, those who know me, know perfectly well that I am their master, and they have traveled a long way with me, in devotion and love. And of course, it is impossible for them at any moment — even if they become enlightened — to call me a friend. That will be simply ungratefulness.
    Beyond Psychology
    Chapter #24
    ………………………………………..

  12. frank says:

    so keerti,
    you are saying it was a modern day instance of “sati” .
    using pills instead of a fire.
    is that it?

  13. oshobob says:

    You guys need to take some courses in Crime Scene Investigation or just basic Historical Research Techniques.

    First point:
    There is absolutely no evidence whatsover that the pretty girl called Nirvano ever died. None. Zero. Nada.

    other than some Swami Dickhead said this, or some Ma Beanbrain said that….

    All these “sources” were and are nothing but Osho sannyasin propagandists — they will surely lie at the drop of a hat. Or they may look at it more like “just telling a story…what’s the harm…we’re doing it for Osho…”

    To get to the truth of anything, the main point is always to go backwards, verifying the truth of the original source, not the outgrowths — everything gets flimsier and flimsier as you move out…

    So,

    First you have the girl Nirvano. Ok. Was she real? Looks like she was — photos taken, videos (though never an interview on video, oddly). Osho talks about her in discourse. Others know her and tell anecdotes. Seen on stage with Osho. Seems to be a real flesh and blood girl, who speaks English, is Osho’s companion, etc. Ok, so far, so good. The girl is real.

    Second, Nirvano is reported by some inner sanctum disciples to have died and was burned at the ghats with a few people attending, on Dec. 1989.

    Stop and freeze the movie here! True or false?

    No need to go further with the branches, like, was the death murder or drug overdose or natural death? Or to the next step, was the drug overdose suicide or accidental? No need to mull over or entertain these thoughts, because the truth of the “death” itself has never been verified sufficiently, to warrant moving to the next level of investigation.

    Verify the death first.

    How is that done? Usually by a certified physician’s determination, with a signature and report. If there is any suspicion of something amiss, out of the ordinary, possibly criminal, then the police investigation and their report comes in. In India, in Pune, in 1989, you would have to find what the procedures for a death certificate to be issued are. And include the possibiliy of bhaksheesh and false reports too, that is important.

    If you are relying on some sannaysins anecdotal evidence here on Nirvano’s “death”, and you progress from there, I would say you are wasting your time in an unsubstantiated landscape of never ending smokey horizons.

    If you are convinced she did die, then go to the next level of how and why and where, etc.

    If you are not convinced she died, then go to the next level of inquiry, and ask, why did the Osho people make up the story, and what happened to Nirvano, is she still alive, where, or did she die at some later date, etc.

    These are the fundamentals of a fruitful search for the “Truth.” The truth of anything, for that matter.

  14. frank says:

    oshobob,
    if you think a piece of paper signed by the indian police is more evidence of the “truth” of anything,i suggest you have never had dealings with the indian police!

    but you have a point.the whole story is unbelieveably sketchy.
    one thing that always amazed me was how the anti-osho media,in short,the media,didnt pick up on it at the time.the story would have been great for them,even if,as you suggest,she wasnt dead.

  15. frank says:

    and btw,excuse me for my less than polite introduction to you at badass news 6 months previously.
    i trust you have not been too traumatised.
    but nevertheless,i am bound to say that,in a betting shop,i will still put my money on her being dead and tony not being a ten foot lizard!

  16. oshobob says:

    no,no frank,
    i wasn’t traumatized at all by your remark 6 months ago, i enjoyed it, quite appropriate in a way…

    you actually proved to be “spot on”, as the Brits say, about TonyZ, the rappin’ prof — quite accurate, even though probably not intended:

    To wit:

    Anthony does resemble a 12-foot lizard after all…

    1. he is prone to the horizontal position whenever possible, as in his preferred psychotheraputic paridigm of post-session chilling out with his patients (female).

    2. Has big eyes like a lizard (to soak in research info), and is known to hang out in the open sun in visible locations (also to aid in his research).

    3. If you grab at Anthony and try to catch hold of him, he slithers away into the rocks of the Chilean mountains faster than a scalded dog, or a lizard on the run.

    4. Though Tony makes a show of his intellectuality, atavistically speaking he is quite a macho animal, in the true Latino sense. The lizard goes back a long, long way in zoological evolution, and so do latinos.

    So, if I went to the betting window, I would take the opposite route to you frank — I would put all my money on Tony being a 12 lizard, and none at all on Nirvano dying on December 9, 1989.

  17. oshobob says:

    and dealings with the Indian Police, the Pune police, you’re right, I’ve had none. Never even been to India. That’s why I put in that remark about taking into account false police reports and baksheesh…

    That skepticism also hold true for a doctor’s sign-off on a death too — could be bought, or forged, etc…

    I would say, in regard to Nirvano’s case, the only way to approach any truth on the matter is to hear something from someone that you absolutely trust to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth –and was present to all or some of the actual events.

    Not an easy set of criterion to fulfill, for sure.

  18. oshobob says:

    and to why the media — anti, neutral, or pro Osho — didn’t pick up on the story….

    Was it ever reported to the media? That is, in the time frame that it “happened” ? Osho’s event a month later, of course took precedence and was THE story.

  19. Anthony thompson says:

    My friend Oshobob… You are to “The da vinci code” what meera is to “Harry potter”.
    I love all these different versions of events. From her never existing or dying in your story; to her being born as the new woman who will save the planet, in meera´s.

    I am afraid that reality seems to be much less exiting… from what I have been able to pick up…

    Although my being a big lizard reminds me of “the doors”… a group I used to like…

  20. (so keerti,
    you are saying it was a modern day instance of “sati” .
    using pills instead of a fire.
    is that it?)

    Frankly speaking, some times you do get it right, while the in-depth research done by Anthony does not let him get it right. His research is not in-search, only in-tellect, no in-tuition. He does not have any access to Akashic records where there’s everything.
    Enjoy the Bull-sit

  21. garimo says:

    >Frankly speaking, some times you do get it right, while the in-depth research done by Anthony does not let him get it right. His research is not in-search, only in-tellect, no in-tuition. He does not have any access to Akashic records where there’s everything.
    Enjoy the Bull-sit

    Frankly Keerti,
    I totally agree that research is not “in-search, intellect, or intuition”.

    Do the Akashic records say research should be anything other than research?

  22. Garimo, You should contact Ma Anando who is the medium for such records. I used to be her medium a decade ago. I am not that glorius any more.
    Keerti and Garimo have the same meaning–The Glory.

  23. garimo says:

    Hmmm,
    I thought Anando was Osho’s medium… No?
    I’d think Kaveesha would have been more in touch with the Akashic records.

    My name letter says something close to Glory. It says garimo means splendor. So I had to *research* and learn what splendor was… and learned it’s the flash of reflected light off of something shiny. That reflection of light is the splendor of the object.

    You seem to have dodged my question. Are you thinking research should be something other than research? Are you preferring options for observation be restricted to words that start with the letter “i”?

    -g

  24. frank says:

    english 20th century girls who take a lot of pills comitting sati on the quiet?
    the “akashik records” ?
    an ” i am glorious,you are just in-tellect” attitude?

    bloody hell,keerti,you sound like some kind of hard-line hindu harry potter or some kind of delhi lama mumbling oracle straight out of lobsang rampa.

    you are right,man
    sometimes i do get it right.

  25. frank says:

    oshobob,
    i guess our imaginary betting shop owner will have to get his odds from the akashic records.
    and everyone knows that they are fixed by mysterious men with beards………………

  26. frank says:

    altho`,to be fair,bob, it turns out that tony has been in his room the whole time playing air guitar to the doors and singing:
    “i am the lizard king
    i can do anything……”

    so maybe you are right after all…..

  27. Beloved Frank and Garimo
    Thanks for correcting me, Good heaven!.
    I am in-glorious now. or is it un-glorious?
    I am not Hindu or Lama though
    I do have friends who are Hindus–and they are not hard-line. I do have a friend Daal–Lama.

    Anando was declared Medium of Osho which she never accepted in public. You could check the Akashik Records. I used to tell her to “meet the press as you are Osho’s medium”, and she wud reply: Keerti, you are my medium. you talk to them.

  28. frank says:

    those were the days,eh?
    you were a bigshot,then.
    now you`re just another guy guzzling his tarka dhal.
    you could call your place osho dhaba……

  29. Dilruba says:

    One more Koan : When Vivek / Nirvano was in her last week of Mystic Rose .. the day before she died .. after she attended the discourse .. while returning to Lau tzu house .. Osho stopped his car near Krishna House .. as Vivek (she was living in Krishna house at that time ) was standing there & Osho then whispered something in Vivek’s ears .. that was their last meeting .. this was told by Hansa Maa ( disciple of 40+ yrs) to me in ’92

  30. meera says:

    Vivek spent most of her life with Osho..
    there was nothing left for her to live for..
    but her mission was not completed
    she had to go through the door marked death..
    to get a totally new life

    this time she is an ordinary girl..
    with an extraordinary power ..
    of great love an sensitivity…
    she enjoys all
    what ordinary girls enjoy..
    being part of this life
    with all its ups and downs..
    and finally become a leader
    to those lost souls
    suffering in
    SAMSARA

  31. meera says:

    ´THE FUTURE BELONGS TO THE WOMEN ´OSHO

    remember… ?! ;-)

  32. Anthony thompson says:

    this is what i call harry potter… now lets listen to Dan brown bob…

  33. shantam prem says:

    Truth is the first and last casuality, when search of truth turns into an organised religion.
    Organsing the world is the main occupation of the westen intelligentia. Wihouth them transportaion and flood management will not happen, great cites would not have taken shape.
    See, with how much minimum effort they have organised the Churchless church around Osho.
    I hope and every day hope, the innocent western heart which is less corrupted than Indian heart, will say shut up the mind running the Osho show.
    Without hesitation, i will say there are less cup boards with skeltons around Osho than any other organisation with such vgreat potential and magnitude.

  34. shantam prem says:

    I heard also she was not too happy with the person she was living with (or dating as Anthony writes this).

    Is there a single woman on the earth, who was or is happy while living or dating this man.

    Power, handsomeness is quite a big attraction but emotional intelligence; the man and the team around him lack utterly.

    Just for fun open in google, ” Air Man Water woman”, there will be thousands of astrol pages on this topic.

    Those who are interested in Kabala of nos. it is an interesting coincidence that three prominent woman around Osho share the same date of birth. 19th March 1949
    Nirvano’s date of birth is written on the stone at the pyramid at the main ashram.
    Sheela’s i came to know from her, while doing her astrology and as i have heard most probably Neelam also has the same date of birth.

    May be keerti cam correct me, if is wrong, the way he corrected Chetna for the rumour.

    I love gossips and stories, true and fictional and littel bit of rumour too.
    Neelam got money in 2000 to shut up after the event happened 11 years before, this is for me the rumour of the year.

  35. Anthony thompson says:

    Guys. really… life is far more boring. The woman apparently died or killed herself because she felt displaced, excluded…

  36. oshobob says:

    Anthony, your perception is a somewhat cocked, skewed, and inaccurate…

    Your Dan Brown similarity should be attached to the Osho sannyasin public relations team, not to me. They are the ones making up the half truth/half fiction stories (Brown’s MO) and feeding them to the public.

    I am a freelance outsider neutral observer separating the truth from fiction in their story. If you compare me to anyone, it should be to Ma Sangeet, the Osho sannyasin who wrote the book “Beyond the Da Vinci Code,” where she does just that with Dan Brown’s pseudo-true conspiracy bestseller. She separates the chaff from the wheat in the D.B’s “Jesus had a baby” yarn, and does a thorough job of it too.

    Dan Brown creates conspiracy stories. I expose them.

  37. Anthony thompson says:

    Oshobob. You are the one who creates conspiracy… or at least think so.
    We are not talking about a story that happened 2000 years ago. This is very recent. why don´t you find out for yourself?

    Write to anando, write to shunyo, write to Jayesh, write to amrito, write to rafia, write to nirgun, write to teertha,etc. All their mails are of public domain. they appear in the groups they advertise.
    ask your questions. it is not such a hard job.
    I did it.
    and then draw your conclusions… there is a lot of people you can ask… and then cross check stories. If you are too lazy to google them. write to my own mail athompsonphd@hotmail.com
    and I will send you their personal mails.

  38. frank says:

    the conspiracy here was one of cover up and silence.
    no doubt for the highest motives of preserving the transmission of osho`s message of truth.

    it is said osho forbade jayesh to go to the ghats.
    good move from a cover up point of view.
    the body was taken down to the ghats and burned presumably by indian nationals to avoid extra attention.
    white faces could have caused more alarm.
    they would not have carried the body on a traditional bier,but in a motor vehicle giving it a more gangland feel.
    the indians could blag,baksheesh and lean on the baba at the temple there,possibly some argument,maybe they had to remind him about his correct place in the akashik records……
    and deal with any accidental visitors who stumbled by…
    the ghats are quiet place,especially at night,too scary for most locals except the odd low life,and some pye dogs-so few probs there.
    i picture the scene,not at all boring,tony.
    like a wierd ritual of aghori babas…..
    excitement,fear,subterfuge,life and death in your face…
    imagine the look in the eyes of the people involved,you could catch a glimpse of them in the flickering flames of the pyre…….
    some would have had that strange calm feeling you get in a car crash,some a lot more edgy….
    smell of burning flesh, kerosine,explosion of the head
    and at the end,what a strange feeling of a job well done…..
    just obeying orders.
    probably none of them knowing anything about the true details of the story they were destroying for ever…….

  39. oshobob says:

    tony writes,
    “Write to anando, write to shunyo, write to Jayesh, write to amrito, write to rafia, write to nirgun, write to teertha,etc. All their mails are of public domain.”

    but tony,
    these are the conspirators of the Nirvano story.

    They show no sign of ending it, why would they expose their own hoax. That would be dumb of them–duh!

    just put all of their personal emails on your next post — seems like a lot of people here would like a direct line to Jayesh, Amrito, and the rest…

    As to conspiracy, by definition, you need to “conspire” with others to have a conspiracy. You can’t do it alone — then no one could say, “E tu, Brute?”

    Who does oshobob conspire with? I work alone. You just can’t conspire alone. Simple fact.

  40. oshobob says:

    frank, you create a very convincing scene there at the Indian burning ghats. A picture through words. A modern-day haiku.

    but then again, so does Ron Howard, the director of “The Da Vinci Code” and “Angels and Demons”, the two Dan Brown books he turned into movies. Create convincing scenes, that is.

    In the DVD’s he actually shows how he creates the “story-boards” of the films — in “Angels and Demons” they even recreated the Sistine Chapel in a backlot set in Culver City.

    Still, no concrete evidence has been produced as of yet by anyone to justify the story of Ma Nirvano dying and being cremated on December 9, 1989. Nothing.

  41. frank says:

    unfortunately,bob,this fact of “no concrete evidence” is the proof and sine qua non of a job well done.

  42. frank says:

    i heard people saying in early the early 90s that they both had staged it and escaped to live on a remote south sea island.

    also,i remember someone said:
    “he`s done a jesus”
    meaning that he had legged it to kashmir to chill in the hills.

    if only.

  43. Anthony thompson says:

    Oshobob. Nirgun, rafia, shunyo and teertha conspirators?
    man two of them were not even there at the time. they can tell you vivek story.
    If you do not trust anando, amrito and jayesh… the ok. Get the mails of the other people living in lao tzu house at the time…

  44. prem bubbie says:

    I’ve been sitting back and reading all the Bullshit that’s being posted here. First I get slammed for bringing up the past and spreading rumors, and second, getting personal about it. I also bring up the [point that we need a truth and reconciliation commission similar to the South African version, that we all come clean; I get slammed by that fraud Oshobob, notice in his comments that he liked me at first but didn’t later,-following the herd Bob? That my rumors are unsubstantiated, well pal i did my best to get the truth- sure, unless you see these things1st hand, it’s all second hand and someone could be pulling one’s leg. Yet here these same assholes are spread rumors and are not held accountable. Even more rumors are being spread, a bunch of bored old ladies!!! You people are sickening, you spread rumors yet you criticize others when they call you on it. Shantam prem I owe you and others NOTHING!!!!! Who the fuck are you? Prem Abhay has it right, was he copying me? Who cares!!! He gets the point! The rest of you are losers!!! No wonder the sannyas community keeps failing!!! Whatever projects they get going, it usually falls flat on it’s face. Anand, you’re a joke, with no life!! Garimo, keep selling that stinking soap, it smells as bad as it’s creator. Oshobob, are you the government agent? You can’t even make up your mind about anything!! A true douche bag!!! The rest of you also have no lives, addicted to the internet and desperate to fill that empty void called the brain. Just read what’s being posted on here–Nirvano’s dead, , now who’s stuck in the past? Who’s spread unsubstantiated rumors? Jack ASSES!!!

  45. prem bubbie says:

    Gossip Queens run Amok!!!!

  46. oshobob says:

    now, now, now, bubbie…you’re getting tangled in a tizzy, and frazzled in a froth… just settle down now boy, and cool off…easy does it son, easy does it….

  47. garimo says:

    Running amok, sometimes referred to as simply amok[1] (also spelled amuck or amuk), is derived from the Malay/Indonesian/Filipino word amuk, meaning “mad with rage” (uncontrollable rage). The verb form is mengamuk.

  48. Anand says:

    Prem Bubbie the government agent fascist-anti-sannyas warrior from Seattle is back! Still has not digested his turkey from Thanksgiving.

  49. Anand says:

    Prem Bubbie aka Bully his back from Thanksgiving with Mammi. He needs some attentions, so he throws another tantrum! Oh my, we are so afraid of you Bubbie
    ex CiA- anti sannyas leader……

  50. oshobob says:

    Maybe Professor Thompson can come in and deal with this situation. Tony?

    What would you do as a group leader down there in Chile if you had a guy like bubbie come into the group and start ‘mengamuking’ all over the place like this.? What would your theraputic strategy be?

    If someone called 911 emergency police here in the States, they would probably come fully prepared with a Swat Team, crisis psychologists, trauma doctors, and a good supply of high-powered rifle tranquilizer darts — enough to take down a crazed rhinoserous running amuk down Main Street in Metropolis, USA.

    Unless they knew he was on the same team, then they would just apprehend him quickly and take him to the local police bar hangout and have a few drinks, a few laughs, and rehash the “event” that they all just designed and executed.

  51. Anthony thompson says:

    I am not much into conspiracy. But there is one interesting factor related to bubbie. He brings up the same points as abhay. They both want a truth and reconciliation stuff… strange. and bubbie says abhay has got it… strange.
    Perhaps prem bubbie is abhay in the maniac phase of the personality disorder. and abhay is harri om in the reflexive mood of the personality disorder. or bubbie is able to channel meera and abhay…
    and this all thing is about water sanitation, democracy and oshobuddhism… why not?

  52. meera says:

    bubbie
    you have no glimpse of the MYSTERY called LIFE

    one comes back over and over again
    until you GOT IT … until you leave this horizontal plane..
    and follow into the UNKNOWN ….

    you represent the unconsious rational mind…
    you have no wisdom of your own…
    never dived deep into yourself

    you cling to the ways of the world..
    the logical.. which sratches only on the surface

  53. meera says:

    why you bubbie
    don´t leave your Metropolis
    and do some adventour travelling..
    what keeps you glued to this insane society
    full of diseases.. ?
    do you have family to look after
    who are dependent in you?

    sitting back there and freaking out won´t help..
    it takes guts to move on…
    instead of fighting with yourself

  54. meera says:

    whatch here …

    The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

  55. shantam prem says:

    Guys. really… life is far more boring. The woman apparently died or killed herself because she felt displaced, excluded…

    This is not just an ordinary woman,
    More or less, Marrie Magedelina from the world of Osho.
    And than al these meditative techniques, esoteric stuff, where were these reiki masters, Shamanic healers.?

    On the other side, when big dreams unfold, colateral damage is unavoidable. As a Chilian Tony must be aware about this.

    And one should not forget during that time Osho himself has mentioned he was sleeping around 22 hours every day, this sleep is possible only through medication.

    The point is Master asa human being became the prisoner of His own disciple’s mind trips.

  56. Dilruba says:

    Yes Shantam if it wasnt for these Doctor disciples .. Osho would still be alive

  57. shantam prem says:

    Truth and reconcilation commison!!!!

    when people read too much newspapers, they can use any term for any situation.

    common sense requires that we use the relevant legal term for any crime of offence, not just any thing.

    even buthers use particular knives for particular parts.

    If we accept the fact something is sick in our collective system, solutions are not difficult, and if as Long time Osho people we are unable to find a amicable solution for a transparent and honest organisation, we Let His teachings fail and waste our time and other people’s energy too.

    .

  58. shantam prem says:

    “Yes Shantam if it wasnt for these Doctor disciples .. Osho would still be alive.”

    After Osho, Osho movement is getting the same dose from the same team of Doctors.

    Even blinds can see how the health of the main organisation is shrinking,

  59. shantam prem says:

    Truth and reconcilation commison!!!!

    No No No

    Simple common sense requires that one group of people drop their sweeping powers over the present and future of Osho movement and share the all around expansion in collabration with their counter parts.

    There is no need to create in India, Pakistan kind of regime.

    Solutions from Osho’s words, harmony between mind and heart and when it is a question of doubt, heart gets the upper hand.

    Heart in connection of Osho does not mean, burning candles, crying before his photo for a new relations, making the pledges that if that particular wish is fullfilled i will do three weeks of samadhi meditation.

    Heart means, treating the others with fairness, and allowing the other pieces of puzzle to fit together.

    Great mystic’s paths are not built with cement and steal but with love and motivation.

    Pyramids of energy of His people coming from all over the globe, merger of new and old, sufis and Zen, if i am allowed to say…Pussy lickers and ass fuckers, nobody is against anybody……where on earth we can get such a liberal master….
    We don’t need to bow before a dead , i agree. But the power of the throabing vision, makes my head simply fall.

  60. oshobob says:

    If I remember correctly, Ma Shunyo’s book, “My Diamond Days With Osho”, came out in 1990, right after Osho’s “leaving the body,” and she includes a chapter on Ma Nirvano’s “death,” and also one on Osho’s “leaving the body.” I bought it and read it when it came out.

    Shunyo (aka Chetna) was close to both of these people it seems, so her book and “recollections” of the events have significant merit of some kind — if not for absolute truth, then at least for the perspectitve that she was destined to project.

  61. oshobob says:

    it’s true bubbs, that i agreed with you on some points, that is, letting the truth come out. i’m still in agreement with that impetus.

    but your motivation looks more political and revenge oriented than theraputic.

    your ‘truth and reconciliation commision” has more a feel of a tribunal kangaroo court bent on projecting the Osho world as a den of criminals, than a project for cleaning the space and clearing the ground to make way for a better world.

    it reminds me of Chaiman Mao’s strategy in the Cultural Revolution of asking everyone to come clean, and “let a hundred flowers bloom, let a thousand thoughts contend.” They came out, and Mao quickly identified his internal opponents, and humiliated and destroyed them publicly as enemies of the revolution.

    We wouldn’t want to repeat that kind of history now would we bubbs?

  62. meera says:

    here the words of one of Osho´s enlightened disciples
    he is originally a dutch and ahs a big buddhafield in Germany…

    Existence at play – the revelation

    (Excerpt from „You are much more happy without you“)

    The one who has received the divine plan has to walk alone, to carry out the revelation. This
    revelation is self supporting, complete in itself. Serving the fourth way, to work day and night to
    play the role of the playmaster of the fourth way.
    Existence sends the people, constant sharing is the universal law of the play. The divine plan
    always goes further, always expanding, now into this dimension. Never tried, never happened
    before. A new synthesis is happening, the fourth way takes a leap, the days of Tantra have come
    to merge with the fourth way. A new dimension is happening.
    This is the only potential – powerful enough in our days to ignite people – to create the New
    Man – the foundation for enlightened rebellion to flower. The only hope for the future of
    humanity. Cosmic fire to evaporate the water, so that it can rain love and compassion all over
    this planet. To wake up the one spirit, the non-dividable, giving water and light that it can grow
    into a new spiritual dimension, ready to take the quantum leap into higher consciousness on this
    earth.
    Thus speaks the divine plan and carries out the divine play simultaneously.

  63. oshobob says:

    well, what’s his name, meera — the enlightened Osho disciple?

  64. Anand says:

    Meera, Keerti – Osho has made clear that we cannot use his words as a dogma.
    So to everything he has said, he has said the opposite too. So why not stick to your own opinions and let go of the silly habit to fill empty space with cc from Osho’s digital catalog.

  65. Anand says:

    Oshobob: you are still trying to talk sense to Osho Bubbie. Just drop it. He is an anti sannyas fascist , hating sannyasins from his gut. Stuck in 1986 in Seattle, probably associated with some US anti Osho government program!

  66. Miss Marple says:

    What if a quarrel between lovers went sour, somebody hit her on the head and then they had to get rid off the body quick.

    If you ask me, this is the logical conclusion of this case.

  67. Miss Marple says:

    And PS: I did not have to consult the Akashic records to arrive at this conclusion.

  68. oshobob says:

    well, OK, Anand, maybe you’re right there, but then you can’t call him “Osho Bubbie”, that would be way off then.
    Maybe a typo on your part….

  69. oshobob says:

    I agree with Anand on that large “copy and paste” habit that some here are prone too. Maybe that would be OK for anyone that’s never read Osho before, as an introduction to him, but the posters here are all somewhat grizzled vets of the long and winding road with Osho’s talks. To use an extended Osho quote to bolster your own personal viewpoint is rather heavy-handed, I think. I myself never read any of them. An appropos sentence, or phrase, is OK, embedded in your own thoughts — that seems more natural.

  70. meera says:

    you people seem to be totally unconscious..
    these words are not from Osho
    but from an enlightenend Oshosannyasin

    check on http://www.buddhahill.de

  71. oshobob says:

    meera, you call those words of an enlightened Osho disciple…this Pan guy?…sounds like some sort of warmed-over new age blah-blah…ok, boyz, time to come out and blast ‘im, …frank, he’s got a Turkish fez on and the obligatory retro Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band cover Beatles wild colors get-up, ala the Osho Dhara trio, ….come on, let’s get back in form here at Sockumnews, and start swingin’…Maitreya Ishwarea took his lumps, Raja got whacked, Osho Dhara Trimurti took their licks, this Pan deserves no less, I would assume….

    “Cosmic fire to evaporate the water, so that it can rain love and compassion all over….”

    oh my god….gimme a break pal.

  72. Anand says:

    Yes Oshobob, it was a typo…Prem Bubbie aka Bully.

  73. Anthony thompson says:

    “Yes Shantam if it wasnt for these Doctor disciples .. Osho would still be alive.”
    shanti bhadra thought the same. that is why she tried killing dr. amrito…

  74. Dilruba says:

    Nothing can be changed .. and yet change is inevitable .. whatever that means .. Chareveti Chareveti ……

  75. amano says:

    each time , i try to take part in discussing here anything, i got hit by you guys. you like to codemmeded me either way, no matter what i write . you are all into cutting other person who try to be honest

  76. amano says:

    sorry not all of you , some of you , i find some intresting visitors to this site

  77. meera says:

    THE MASTER IS A MAGNETIC PULL

    WHENEVER SOMEONE GOES TO A BUDDHA OR TO A KRISHNA, suddenly his energy feels a change of climate because of such a powerful source. The moment you move near, you are magnetized.

    NO ONE IS MAGNETIZING YOU, no one is trying anything — just the presence. You may feel that someone has hypnotized you. No one is hypnotizing you. BUT THE PRESENCE OF A BUDDHA — whose energy has become formless, gone to the source, and who is centered at his source — the very presence is hypnotizing. IT BECOMES CHARISMATIC.

    BUDDHA BECAME ENLIGHTENED. Before his enlightenment he had five disciples, they were ascetics. And when Buddha himself was a great ascetic, torturing his body in many, many ways — inventing new and more sadistic techniques to torture himself, those five were his ardent followers.

    Then Buddha felt that this was wholly, absolutely absurd. JUST BY TORTURING ONE’S BODY, ONE IS NOT GOING TO REALIZE ONESELF. When he realized this, he left ascetic ways. Those five followers left him immediately. They said, “You have fallen down. You are no more an ascetic.” They left him.

    WHEN BUDDHA BECAME ENLIGHTENED, the first idea that came to his mind was about those five followers. Once they were his followers, so he must go to them. He felt a duty — HE MUST FIND THEM AND TELL THEM WHAT HE HAS FOUND. So he searched for them, and he traveled in Bihar, from Bodhgaya to Benares, just to find them. They were at Sarnath. Buddha never came back to Benares again, never came back to Sarnath again, because he came only for those five disciples.

    HE CAME TO SARNATH. It was evening time, the sun was setting, and those five ascetics were sitting on a hillock. They saw Buddha coming, so they said, “That fallen Gautam Buddha, that Gautam Siddharth who has fallen from the path, is coming. We must not pay any respect to him. We should not pay to him even ordinary respect.”

    So they closed their eyes. BUDDHA CAME NEARER AND NEARER, AND THOSE FIVE ASCETICS BEGAN TO FEEL A CHANGE — a change of their mind. They became uneasy.

    WHEN BUDDHA JUST REACHED NEAR, suddenly all the five opened their eyes and fell at the feet of Buddha. Buddha said, “But why are you doing this? Because you decided not to give any respect to me, so why you are doing this?”

    They said, “WE ARE NOT DOING, IT IS HAPPENING. What have you gained? You have become a magnetic force, we are just being pulled. What are you doing to us? Have you hypnotized us?”

    Buddha said, “No! I have done nothing to you, but something has happened in me. All the energies have fallen to the source, so WHEREVER I MOVE, SUDDENLY A MAGNETIC FORCE IS FELT.”

    That is why those who are against Buddha or Mahavir go on saying for centuries that, “That man was not good, he was hypnotizing people.” No one is hypnotizing. You become hypnotized — that is another thing. WHEN YOUR ENERGY FALLS BACK TO THE ORIGINAL SOURCE, YOU BECOME A MAGNETIC CENTER.

    OSHO
    Vigyan Bhairav Tantra
    Vol 1, Ch #16: Beyond the sin of unconsciousness

  78. shantam prem says:

    “Yes Shantam if it wasnt for these Doctor disciples .. Osho would still be alive.”
    shanti bhadra thought the same. that is why she tried killing dr. amrito…

    Anthony i really don’t know but personality disorders of famous sannyasins are a subject of its own.
    There palace politics and more over INTOLERANCE..
    now when the daddy is gone up in the sky, elder brothers are unsure what to do with the other orpahns.

  79. shantam prem says:

    Amano,
    Join the discussion, not just discussion but winds of change, with your total honesty and learn to hit back, not because it is a joy to hit back but many times out of self defence…
    Power in the hands of sane people is a blessing for all, same is about Osho’s vision.

    psychopaths reading Osho also feel the effect instantly, cancer stays pain disappears, scary face hides behind 100% Pashmina shawl.

  80. shantam prem says:

    Meera,
    what is stopping you to join the commune at buddhahill?

    And please don’t paste too much Osho discourses…they loose the shine when like children’s soap bubbles they are thrown on all the passer byes.

    People are educated and in search, everybody can find the relevant points, what one is looking for.

  81. shantam prem says:

    Anthony this news may be is of your interest.
    The wild life and life of us sannyasins!!!

    The battles are unfailingly barbaric, and almost always fought to the death.

    In a rare glimpse of a reality that wildlife photography rarely shows, this stark series of images illustrates how brutal life can be for the animals we might only see in a zoo.
    From the ferocity of Siberian tigers grappling in the snow, to the disturbing sight of a hippo falling victim to a pride of lions, these are kind of confrontations that animals face daily in the wild.
    Enlarge
    Fight to the death: Bald eagles attack one another in mid-air over the dramatic Alaskan landscape
    Taken by famed wildlife photographer Steve Bloom, the images also demonstrate what happens when members of the same species engage in a battle for supremacy.

    Among the incredible images in his ‘Conflit’ series, two Bald Eagles fight for airspace above Alaska, elephants in Botswana clash tusks in the dust, and snarling polar bears fight for dominance.
    Enlarge Clashing tusks: Two African elephants fight for supremacy in Savuti, Botswana
    Bloom, 56, who is most famous for his images of swimming elephants and stallions crashing through the surf, concedes that the images in the portfolio lay bare the reality of life in the animals’ natural habitat.
    More…White gators – the rarest creatures in the world – found in swamp land
    ‘People often have a sentimental view of wildlife and they have this idealistic view, but animals are experiencing the same sort of stresses that we experience, but in a different way,’ he said.

    ‘They are constantly trying to deal with killing and finding food and avoiding being killed and eaten. That is the overriding preoccupation along with reproducing and trying to stay alive.
    ‘There is a huge amount of conflict and a huge amount of stress.’
    He admitted that being a spectator to that could be both thrilling and distressing, and that he often struggled with the dilemma of whether to intervene, or to simply stand back and let nature take its course.
    In any case, it seems, the law of the jungle will prevail

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1232860/Clash-titans-The-brutal-reality-wild-animals-fight-survival.html#ixzz0YcivrTUr

  82. frank says:

    that wildlife guy should check out the vicious and unsentimental wasteland that is badass news.
    never mind the bald eagles
    has he felt the full force of our bald psychotherapist?
    he`s really scary.
    and the merciless attacks of “prides” of gurus on one`s very sense of self?
    see the jackasses tear each others egos to shreds…..
    not a sight for the faint-hearted.
    indian elephants stampeding helpless hippies with osho quotes…ouch.
    the screetch of the goa eagle,now confined in a cage in germany–aaargghh….
    the cries of pain as people`s dogma gets run over by their karma….

    tricked by coyotes
    laughed at by hyenas
    grizzled by bare-faced bears……

    its a wild wild life…..

    maybe more than a man or woman could bear

  83. Anagara says:

    prem bubbie
    nice to have you back and kicking asses .
    I mean it .
    some of these guys are really thick skulled .

  84. Shanti says:

    hello again guys.
    Nirvano´s death was shock to all of us. She was close to a close friend of mine and I knew she was not happy at the end. My friend told me of her moodswings and how she coul be loving and very fiery.
    I think it was in ´89 that she checked to a psychiatric ward in England, but left very soon. My friend told me she was always talking about wanting to die.
    In the lasts months she was very solitary and did not want to see anybody.
    She even left to australia to start over… but came back.

    Was she was burned. My friend was there and couple of her closest. Her boyfriend jayesh was not there.which was strange.
    Amiyo was there, so was shunyo who i think actually lit the fire.
    For us , we just did not know what to make out of it. Probably she committed suicide.

  85. oshobob says:

    So, what was your close friend’s name who was a witness to all of this, Shanti?

  86. Shanti says:

    Her name was purnesh

  87. oshobob says:

    there you have it Shantam
    in the lead article here
    you are asking for those that were there
    and knew the truth of this incident
    to come forward and come clean

    they have not yet
    but Shanti and me have named some names
    of possible source material:

    Ma Shunyo
    Ma Purnesh
    Amiyo
    Sw. Jayesh

    Contact them and see if they want to contribute to the expose.
    Prof Anthony says some of the emails are public domain, though he doesn’t give them out, but i think Shunyo can be contacted via Osho Miasto Center in Italy, through their website contact page.

    other than going back to these prime sources (and believing what they say), we are just spinning our wheels in rumors, second and third hand accounts, gossip, opinions, conjectures, etc.

  88. frank says:

    to quote sherlock holmes:

    “it is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data”

    i have spent a fair amount of time in hindu burning grounds
    and unlike christian churchyards for example,
    they are not the kind of places that evoke the word “data”

    ,i would conjecture that the “truth”here,bar any dramatic deathbed confessions or suchlike is
    gone gone gone beyond……

  89. oshobob says:

    and meera, that guy peter pan, who you are advertising here as an enlightened Osho sannyasin…he looks like a drug dealer to me, the kind of a guy I used to see at rock festivals in the early ’70′s selling grass and blotter acid. and the stuff he says sounds like a lot of reheated vacuous mush. Are you serious girl? Cut me some slack, ok? You’d really have to stretch it to go for the PanMan. What next? Pot? Pots and Pans? What will you cook, what’s for dinner here on the Osho Sannyasin Smorgasbord of wacked-out avatars…?

  90. frank says:

    but i think that there is one clear fact on which anyone,no matter on what side of the story they are, would agree:
    that,for the consort of an enlightened man,surrounded by and in relation to doctors,psychotherapists and major players in the movement,to commit suicide whilst doing supposedly therapeutic practices invented by and prescribed by the leader,could never be construed as good publicity.

  91. frank says:

    bob,i think the word you are looking for is “avatard”

  92. oshobob says:

    true enough frank, on that bad PR fallout from a suicide death of Nirvano, no doubt about it…

    but your quote from Sherlock brings up a very important point that plays into every story like this…

    Sir Conan Doyle, the British author who created the fictional detective Sherlock Holmes, developed the model of the Rational Man searching for ‘hard data’ to solve his cases. But Doyle himself had leanings toward the opposite — he was known in his time as a man quite infatuated with esoteric things like seances, ghosts, channeling, etc. In vogue in England amongst his social group at the time.

    Across the pond in the US, there was another man, Harry Houdini, who cut his career on fooling the public with well rehearsed magic and escape performances. But he, in his real life, was opposed to what he considered the frauds of the “dead speaking” in dimly lit rooms to a gullible audience. And spoke out vehemently against it, exposing it.

    Houdini and Conan Doyle spent a good amount of time thrashing each other in the press over this. But the odd thing to me is, their stances were the exact flip-side of their publicly created heroic figures–Holmes for Doyle, and Houdini for Eric Weiss (his real name).

    This happens all the time with people — projecting a public demeanor that is the exact antithesis of their private reality. Buddha is the wandering beggar who actually is a princely lord. The oppressed ‘little man’ becomes the SS Officer. The scholarly girl becomes a prostitute. The frightened skinny boy muscles up with steroids and turns into the bulging body-builder.

    I would assume that sannyasins are not immune to this syndrome. Maybe Sheela is really a cupcake, not the tough mama that people make her out to be. Maybe Jayesh is not a business hot-shot leader of the resort that he’s projected to be. He could be just a guy that likes to dance, play the tuba in his spare time, and be an unknown boy-next-door.

    Or, another way to put it is, what you see in the street level boutique is usually not the reality of the city inner-workings.

  93. amano says:

    thank you shantam

  94. frank says:

    i`m sure you are right,oshobob,
    in some parallel universe of their marginalised selves i see:
    christopher calder and tony,in their lunghis,hurling themselves at the feet of any guru they can find.
    keerti,drunk as a skunk in some downtown bar,foulmouthedly abusing religion and threatening the bartender.
    shanti fetching her grumpy and domineering husband`s pipe and slippers.
    meera eating sausages and drinking beer,silently slumped in front of a german comedy show on tv.
    shantam staring into space blankly,with nothing to say.
    bubbie helping old ladies accross the road and telling them about the dalai lama`s compassion.
    anand and garimo at a hells angel convention,showing each other their weapons.
    oshobob appearing on live aid
    and me,i`d have people standing around me saying:
    “wow,thanks,thats really nice of you to say so….”

  95. meera says:

    if you are such a great guy oshobob
    why not sent a photo of you…
    we all want to see your marvelous face

    actually I feel you guys are all jealous with each other..
    behaving like primitive tribes .. fighting…

    man has not come out of barbarious stoneage…

    that is why I post oshoquotes once in while
    as a reminder…

  96. oshobob says:

    and in that parallel universe too frank,

    osho…
    unsure of himself child who is obedient to his parents and teachers, ends up getting married, 7 kids, with a job as a railway clerk in his hometown in India…

  97. oshobob says:

    when did i ever say i was a great guy meera?
    i’m just average.
    as to the photo, i did post a link here about a month back, standing by Bodhidharma’s pagoda/stupa/ta in China, for all to see. I have just an average face, not so marvelous. Maybe this was before your time here.
    I actually have gotten a lot older and wiser since then.

    Are you German, Meera? I’m mean, I know you think you have transcended your birth nationality, but still, just wondering, are you German, originally?

  98. garimo says:

    >>anand and garimo at a hells angel convention,showing each other their weapons.

    Thats funny… I can do that when I go visit family.
    Guns are important to my family…

    I don’t visit too often.

  99. meera says:

    oshobob

    …I was born in Germany at 7 pm ..
    Oshotimes
    by the ringing of village-churchbells
    in an old house which belonges to my grandparents
    overlooking a picturesque valley with a lush green forest
    and a alively stream of running water…
    in a place called ´holly ´like hollywood

    from here my film starts…..

    I was 16 when my father died of a heartattac
    due to stressful work
    after he had spent his childhood in war and poverty

    by the age of 21 I was disillusioned by this system…
    if we all die..what is the point in dragging yourself from the craddle to the grave?!
    luckily I got the book of Satyanda former famous german jounrnalist.. of STERN magazin..
    who used to travel to middleeast to comment about the war..
    he was sent toPoona..to write about the ashram
    he resigend his job
    became an sannyasin
    and Osho asked him to write the book.
    which brouhgt thousands of Germans to Poona
    including me…

    I understood
    that we all can become masters
    and that Osho is the Master of masters…
    that is is our very birthright to be fully alive and free
    and that nothing else really matters..
    and when we die
    we cannot take anything with us..
    .except
    that
    which never dies…
    our love….

    so I´m busy
    sowing flowers of love
    on all the battlefields we dwell

    only Osho´s words
    guide us into this understanding…
    not our jabbering mind…

  100. meera says:

    WHEN YOU LISTEN TO ME, HEALING IS HAPPENING ALL THE TIME. When you listen to me so attentively that you are not there — no mind, no thinking… you have become just the ears… you just listen, you absorb.

    AND I AM NOT HERE AT ALL. So when in some rare moments you are also not there, there is healing. Suddenly you are healed. WITHOUT YOUR KNOWING, YOU ARE BEING HEALED EVERY DAY. Without your knowing, the healing surrounds you, the healing force surrounds you. Your wounds heal, your darkness disappears, your limitations are broken. This is a therapy.

    IN THE EAST WE HAVE NEVER HAD ANYTHING LIKE A PSYCHOTHERAPIST, because the Master was more than enough. Whatsoever psychoanalysis knows today, the East has known for centuries. Nothing is new in it. But in the East, we never gave birth to the category of the psychoanalyst, but the Master; not the patient, but the disciple.

    Just look at the difference. WHEN YOU COME TO ME AS A PATIENT, YOU BRING A VERY UGLY MIND; WHEN YOU COME TO ME AS A DISCIPLE, YOU BRING A BEAUTIFUL MIND. When I look at you as a therapist, that very look reduces you to a thing; when I look as Master, that very look raises you to the heights of your innermost being.

    In the East, we have never called the Master ‘psychotherapist’ — AND HE IS THE GREATEST THERAPIST THAT HAS EVER BEEN KNOWN IN THE WORLD. Just sitting by the side of a Buddha, millions were healed. Wherever he moved there was healing. But healing was never talked about, it was simply happening — there was no need to talk about it. The very presence of a Buddha, and the loving look from the Master, and the readiness to absorb from the disciple…

    The word ‘patient’ is ugly. The word in itself is not ugly, it comes from a very beautiful root. It comes from the same root as ‘patience’ — but it has become ugly by association. A disciple is totally different: YOU HAVE COME TO LEARN SOMETHING, NOT TO BE TREATED. And the treatment happens by itself.

    ALL THERAPY IS LEARNING. In fact, why you have become mentally ill? –because you have learned something wrong. You have learned something so totally wrong that you are caught in it. You need somebody who can uncondition you, who can help you to unlearn it and can channelize your energy on a different path — that’s all!

    OSHO
    Come Follow Yourself
    Vol 4, Ch #4: All who hear it lose themselves
    am in Buddha Hall

  101. shantam prem says:

    The idea of this article was not “name and shame”, but to look retrospectively and learn from that, that it serves no higher purpose by digging the skeltons of another people, another religious beliefs and ikons and in the same process go on hiding ones own deeds and natural human failures.

    A little bit of remorse is not a bad thing even when one thinks oneself sitting in Noah´s arch.

  102. Anand says:

    Mystery headliner: where is Kranti?

  103. Anand says:

    Meera: your use of Osho excerpts reminds me of Jehovas witnesses or in German: Jehovas Zeugen.

  104. Shanti says:

    kranti said he quit his job and went to pune for three weeks

  105. frank says:

    shantam,
    the “noah`s ark” turned out to be about as seaworthy as “the titanic”

    i think you might find that most of the passengers will say,like my famous namesake:

    “regrets,i`ve had a few
    but then again,too few to mention”

  106. frank says:

    well,i hope kranti finds what he`s looking for.
    by now he could be enlightened,unenlightened,banned,got a new job,got a new babe,hit the bottle,dropped his past,dropped his pants………
    never know.

  107. oshobob says:

    you would think Kranti would write some posts from the Resort — photos too — after all this time of discussing it here. His impressions and experiences as a roving reporter, devotional disciple, and meandering meditator. What’s up there, Mr. K?

  108. Shanti says:

    well. bobbie. i9t is obvious you´ve never been there. There is no energy to discuss with old lonely people. like us.
    he is eating the cake!!

  109. meera says:

    Anand
    you are the typical person who has become part of a crowd in this case sannyascrowd…
    no feeling whatsoever for Osho`s words…

    I don´t consider such people as sannyasins ..
    they are white sheep.. christians…

  110. shantam prem says:

    Shanti
    Without doubt Kranti is eating the cake at Pune, the cake which gives nobody else in India, may be in the whole world.
    Let this cake be in 20 + different varietes…for every inner age group, for every type; extrovert or introvert.
    Just to have one kind of baker is too miserable, too anti climax to the throbbing business left behind by its originator.

    From my side, that is the only complain.

    And yes.. why not from Osho´s birth or deathday, His people create a new name for His place.. Resort is too square..

    Osho Bakery International..
    ( baking soul like delicious cakes)

    Sense of humour and outrageous meditativeness…I am sure He will be happy, while enjoying the long deserving private time with His ……..!

  111. AShik says:

    goddammmmmmm it

    if you meet the Buddha on your way through the forest – Kill him

    But please do not bore him to death.
    or me

  112. frank says:

    maybe the cake is past its sell-by date.
    like old folk with dementia who keep old cakes in the cupboard,they never come to notice how stale it has become….and if you say,hey this is like a rock,you cant eat that,especially with your teeth,they get pissed off!!

    and why so few people go there if it is so great?
    why arent those singing the praises,there now?

    live where you are.it is possible.
    in fact the idea it is not possible is just poisonous.
    what you running from?
    as long as you are running and dreaming of the better place,you are condemning and destroying your present self and situation.

    this is not mysticism or “enlightenment” or something.
    its just f***ing obvious.

  113. oshobob says:

    noah’s ark:
    a nice Jewish boat with a lot of animals on it.
    turned into a nice Jewish story that made it’s way into The Bible.
    and then subsequent movie adaptions.

    the titanic:
    a nice big ship with a lot of Euopeans on it.
    turned into many big insurance payoffs after a single big icecube got the better of it.
    and then, of course, the movie adaptions came later.
    DVD’s too.

    the empty boat:
    an Osho set of discourses on Chinese Taoist Chuang Tzu, given in Pune 1.
    many Chinese people in it — the book, not the boat!
    no movie yet, and of course, no DVD’s.

    Now, here’s a question to ponder:
    If you melted down all these boats and stories, and reformed them into a new contemporary one, what would you get?

    a boat with…

    Eagles battling in the sky, in conflict resolution?
    Europeans battling on the Continent, for Euro supremacy?
    Chinese battling the world, to become Number One superpower?

    Spaceship Earth, what does the future hold?
    Where have all the flowers gone?
    What about the Old Man himself — Osho — where has he gone?
    Answer me that.
    To some big bakery in the sky, eating croissants or some other kind of French sad excuse for real food?
    I sure as hell hope not.

  114. garimo says:

    >as long as you are running and dreaming of the better place,you are condemning and destroying your present self and situation.

    Speak for yourself Frank… These days my life is seeming pretty boring and predictable. I often think I should be running away… and then I think “Wow, existence is taking care of me really well.”

    Gratitude and discontent seems to be a two sided coin.

  115. garimo says:

    AShik, what are your preferred methods for killing Buddhas?

  116. shantam prem says:

    AShik // Dec 4, 2009 at 8:29 pm

    “goddammmmmmm it

    if you meet the Buddha on your way through the forest – Kill him

    But please do not bore him to death.
    or me”

    Hallo Great seeker, Ashik,

    It is more than 12 hours, Garimo has asked you a question. Are you going shopping to buy some non boring thing for chopping the Buddha from the way?

    And please let people know about your great killing, and be sure you are not doing any crime, so make it really juicy…

    and if you cannot….

  117. frank says:

    bob,if you melt all these stories together,you get what we`ve got already.
    the noah`s ark was poona 1,getting all those wacky animals from all over the world on board for the maddest journey….
    the titanic was the bravado and chutzpah-laced attempt to attempt the impossible,sunk without a trace,but the legend remains…….

    now,we are just rowing the empty boat merrily down the stream and life is but a butterfly dream……….,
    sitting in the shade of the useless tree….
    eating our peanuts at night and in the morning…..

    “those who realise their folly are not the true fools…”

  118. Anthony Thompson says:

    Frank you say:”
    live where you are.it is possible.
    in fact the idea it is not possible is just poisonous.
    what you running from?
    as long as you are running and dreaming of the better place,you are condemning and destroying your present self and situation.

    this is not mysticism or “enlightenment” or something.
    its just f***ing obvious.”

    Sounds good. But it is just an ideal.
    otherwise why do you go to a pub, or for a walk, or take vacations at the beach. or spend weekends in the woods or go to the movies?… or call your girlfriend?

    You can just be contented with yourself in your room, ideally, breath in and out is enough, boredom and entertainment are just dimensions of the mind.

    MMMhhh?

    This is the difference between ideals and reality. theoretically you are enough into yourself and you can be happy wherever you are,it is just a matter of changing the attitude.

    In reality, most of the time , even you frank, can not do that and need to change the environment to get what you want or need.
    … even you go to the pub…

    Do not patronize us with something that even you do not practice.

  119. amano says:

    who is ready to go directly to jayesh and amirto . gossiping here is not leading us anywhere. i will be pune soon. is there anyone who would like to come with me to resort and speak with amrito and jayesh about death of nirvano or atleast try.
    my feeling is that we are gossiping too much and have not been partical so much

  120. meera says:

    it is everywhere the same..
    Osho´s words get banned
    so one is supposed to listen to all this jabbering of unenlightended people .
    .not a ray of light can shine through…
    so that people will come to their senses..
    so that can one can have a sensitive debate…
    not even socalled sannyasins listen to him

    wish you all a HAPPY X-MAS
    celebrating
    the birth
    of the MESSIAS

    I´m going to withdraw
    from THIS world..
    it dosen´t make any sense to me

  121. frank says:

    tony,
    maybe i could be flattered that a man of your intelligence could ever interpret what i write as “ideals” to live by.
    but,i am not really an “idealer”.

    i said that:
    “in running and dreaming of a better place,you are condemning and destroying the present self and situation”

    to me that is a practical view.with practical applications.

    for example.you appear convinced that i spend most of my time down at the pub.
    so,lets say,by way of illustration, that i am an alcoholic,and someone points out to me what i have just said ( running and dreaming etc)
    i take note of this,and realise that my obsession with the next drink (the future,a “better” place,for me,the addict) is wiping out the present-time reality,meaning my relationship,human or otherwise with my real situation.
    -i can review things,clear my head.maybe not take the drink,
    and i head back to the ( non-ideal,non-mystical,non theoretical) here and now.

    that`s the kind of thing i am talking about.
    no ideals.

  122. frank says:

    but keep talking tony.
    the idea of being lectured about “the difference between ideals and reality”
    by the man who so unconvincingly argued the ludicrous case of the “paradigm” (how theoretical are “paradigms”?) of “horizontal relationships” in therapy really appeals to my absurdist sense of humour.

  123. Anthony Thompson says:

    My dear frank.
    We both like to lecture, advise, suggest….

    We know that. let us not “tell the fortune among gypsies” (chilean saying).

    My point is about suggesting things which are not within the realm of what we do.

    You said yourself once that you would stop writing because you were going to a pub.
    There is nothing wrong in it. Human beings modify, change and moved away from their environments.

    Actually we are the only specie that does not adapt to the environment, we adapt the environment to us.

    Therefore, the fact that someone wants to go to pune or elsewhere,.. or to the pub is not necessarily a running away. but an attempt of change the envoronment… just human.
    On the other hand to live emotiopnally in the prospect of a possible furure, which is i think what you mean, it is indeeed stupid.
    But you can do both… change environment… here-now.

  124. oshobob says:

    tony and frank,
    every few weeks you two lock horns over some issue, and it’s always illuminating…

    meera,
    i was just thinking, you said you were born at 7pm somewhere in Germany — that is exactly the time that Osho’s White Robe Brotherhood, the Evening Meeting, starts. This can’t be just a coincidence, now can it?

    amano,
    i’ll meet you at the Resort in Pune to chat with Jayesh and Amrito, but i’m broke. If you send me $3,000, I’ll go.
    That’s being practical about it.

    But whether you hop a plane to go half way around the world, or just walk down to the corner pub, or even just move your two hands to the computer keyboard and rip off a post to sannyasnews…there in the end is probably not too much difference, it seems to me.

  125. shantam prem says:

    Amano
    Please speak with Jayesh and Amrito, not just about Nirvano but other relevant questions connected with day to day changes imposed by them.
    it is worth an experience to see how clear and convinced they are, not even an iota of boubt is in them, great leadership qualities.

  126. Prem Abhay says:

    Prem Bubbie I aint copying you….I said also that there should be justice! I also agree with another point of yours: awareness includes awareness of what is going on around us, and this includes acts of criminality and negligence. One can only pretend to be aware of the inner if the outer lies hidden because of selfish interests. I also agree with you that the reason why this issue of drinking water contamination gets dismissed is because a lot of people do actually want some sort of drama by going to India (and Pune).

    OshoBob if anyone sends you more than 3000 dollars can you pass it around so we can all enjoy some brief entertainment in Pune.

    Keerti thanks for saying the simple and neglected truth of Anando’s position as medium to Osho. If Anando were male and stinking rich people would be touching her feet and asking for guidance. She would have much more power than all the Inner-Circle, and also more than Nirvanno. However she is a women and so she has to work hard for people to see who she is. Yes Osho really must have changed the male orientated mindset of humanity….not!

    Where is Kranti….he is probably begging on the streets outside the ashram trying to get enough rupees for the entrance fee….never mind a good feed.

    Yahoo
    Abhay

  127. Kranti says:

    Mm..Not the kind of thread / discussion i want to jump in after nearly ten days of Dynamic Meditaton

    Never the less … Trust you guys are doing well

    Didnt take a photo.. Came back for a week..will be there in pune again ..

    I am certainly not enlightened Frank..but did have a wonderful impact from doing Dynamic.. Body and mind feel so light..

    Oshobob post made me feel guilty..So thought of posting what I experienced so far

    Osho’s place looks soooo beautiful.. The energy is still very high..atleast to the extent i am aware…

    Maroon colour everywhere.. Auditorioum is packed for all meditations and evening meetings..

    Lot of youngsters.. Saw a bunch of teenagers going crazy in white robe.. They didnt give a damn to others..elders had to step in few times.. No major impact…Three girls kept dancing with each other , making circles . talking to each other all the time.. Too excited ..

    So.. To me all look beautiful even now.. I dont have a 20 year past to compare.. That may be one reason..But I have been visiting from 2003 and nothing has changed..Infact changes had been positive…There seem to be more focus on meditations from individuals rather than sannyasin gathering kind of thing..But that is my impression..

  128. shantam prem says:

    OSHO is like a Banyan tree, even if many branches are cut, it will look dis formed but still will go on radiating oxygen 24 hours a day.
    And Kranti, you have done Dynamic for 10 days, can you continue doing it regularly at home. What inner and outer obstacles one can feel as self sufficient meditator-

    (There seem to be more focus on meditations from individuals rather than sannyasin gathering kind of thing).

    focus on meditation was the only focus Osho was pointing at, so much so even when he was coming to the Buddha hall and meditations were offered in the same way as it is followed, every second weekend of the month, He declared as Meditation camp.
    Normally meditations were done in the empty Buddha Hall, during camp days, a photo of him was placed in the middle of the hall, suddenly one could feel the surge in the energy, an infectious atmosphere was built in this way. I think, His insistence on His photos was for this reason that when He dies, the images can go on inspiring us or was there some narcissistic reason to be the most photographed master of all times, was He like a monkey who found the mirror and became habitual to look his face all the time.

    What was the need to stop this, who decided this, just wondering.
    The point is even when Master was in the body, meditation was the main offering, though it is another fact, long time people there, including this Shantam, did everything but meditaion.

  129. Anthony Thompson says:

    Shantam. when you ask historical questions.. i feel compelled share the information i have.
    Who decided to remove the pictures of Osho?
    It was Vatayana. who suggested the inner circle to take them away.
    She initially felt that it had lost the meaning because, as she said, it had become like a wallpaper.
    She they took a couple a way to see what people felt. she said nobody noticed. Finally they took them all away and replaced them with paintings made by Osho. In some group rooms still have photos.
    that is the story

  130. shantam prem says:

    Vatyana,the high priestess decided, and the pop followed.
    If someone wants to follow a certain line of action, mind create ready made solutions too.
    It is also similar to the hidden doors of palace politics, when the harem wanted to get the attention of the king and after his death, the prince.
    In the art of surviving, one must know, what makes the prince click.

    Anthony, you can look at the folks left at Pune, none have any base any where, none has the height equal to the top brass.
    When the loyalty to the leader becomes bigger than the loyalty to the cause or the country, flowers of wisdom simply vanish.

    any way, please let us know also, who stoped the meditation camps happening during the second weekend. As i remember, Zareen was given the responsibility to conduct them and she did it quite beautifully for few years.

    During those years i was working with Neelam and Zareen at the same time and can say with smile that during meditation camp days, Zareen was blossoming in her heart and womanly enviousness with her other colleague was minimum.

  131. deva Ashik says:

    osho was not the Messiah
    he was not ordinary
    he was out of the ordinary
    if Nirvano steppd off the stage or into another existence we should celebrate
    not dissect the mundane
    Of course its a pity neither She or Osho could
    just say boo to all you that should b saying yahoo

    Any way
    it will come around again

  132. Anthony Thompson says:

    Shantam, with pleasure.
    The meditation camps were stopped ( inner circle decision) because it made no sense to call meditation camp something that it was happening any way everyday.

    In pune one, groups stopped and the whole day was devoted to do the meditations because at that time only dynamic, kundaklini and nadabrama were scheduled.

    At the beginning of pune two when zareen was appointed by osho do so so, still groups were happening at the same time, but the idea was av certain emphasis or attitude that you would do all the meditations, because people were mostly going for discourse and not many meditating , as we have discussed before.

    Nowadays, the meditations are packed, so it makes no sense to call meditation camp something that it is happening anyway, every day.

  133. oshobob says:

    “come around again” you say my good man Ashik?
    an enigmatic statement,
    i dare say.
    quite mysterious.

    “if Nirvano steppd off the stage….”
    You’re well aware, I assume, that the word “if” is a big word — bigger than the word “smiles”, even though there’s a ‘mile’ between the two ‘s’ ‘s.

  134. Kranti says:

    Yes Shantam.. I intend to do Dynamic ( silent second stage ) at home..

    Anthony ..When you did Dynamic were you practicing at home and if yes. what about the second stage? Also share with me some experience of yours as it will help.

  135. shantam prem says:

    It is a great meditation to accept the points of another person without contesting. If A feels right in oneself, than to validitate the B and C etc. is a liberation in itself.

    So Anthony, what do you think are the reasons that inspite of all the right decisions taken by Inner circle( let me not even think, where is the inner circle. it is 360 degrees and not the arch of 45), approval rating is quite low in their peer group, the genration which participated with them in building of “Osho in Poona” brand.

  136. Anthony Thompson says:

    shantam. You ask me a difficult question. First in pune there a tons of old timers. I am absolutely unable to make a judgment as of how many people are against the way things are now.
    As far as reasons… i would say, people are attached to the emotional experiences they had. Which is normal, in a way. So, they may not be very prone to changes.

    Now there is no spiritual authority left by Osho. If these changes would have been made by someone appointed by osho as his successor, probably the resistance would be less.

    Most sannyasins are drop outs, so the word resort does not particularly appeal to that segment of the population… actually it is despised by them.

    These are my guesses, but i honestly do not know.

  137. Anand says:

    Kranti: what the rates in Pune? 700 Rs for entrance?
    Do you know the rates for sessions?

  138. meera says:

    oshobob said :

    ´meera,
    i was just thinking, you said you were born at 7pm somewhere in Germany — that is exactly the time that Osho’s White Robe Brotherhood, the Evening Meeting, starts. This can’t be just a coincidence, now can it?´

    oshobob
    there is no coincidence…
    I´m born at Darshantimes..bang on…

    in this village in the heart of one of the most populated areas of the world..

    yet it is surrounden by nature..
    not far from Cologne..
    it belongs to the cathlic Archebishop of Cologne
    where is the 2nd biggest oshogathering in the world besides Poona..

    in my village there are two big properties for sale.
    . a former old huge clinic which could accomodate several hundreds people
    a watercastle ..
    and field for organic growth..
    .millions of people could get in touch
    if I could only manage to find sanyasins
    who want to participate.
    . but here in western industrial world
    everyone is so busy struggeling with existence
    that they have no time to meditate..
    unnecessary.. because there is so much wealth
    one must only be aware
    of what is given..
    tons of food are thrown away everyday
    due to overproduction.
    . tons of clothes wich are manufactored in the china
    and else where
    by poor hard working laborers
    are being thrown cheap in the market
    and pile up on the rubbish heaps..
    huge hills..
    because people keep on running ,,
    working ..
    buying
    and throwing…

    Osho told us to return in our countries
    and create a commune there..
    Germany has learned from its pas
    t and could invest in a healing project..
    the hospitals here are overcrowded..
    mental hospitals are full..
    so they have to build more and more..
    druggaddicts and alcoholics
    are so many
    that there is hardly any place for them
    and they are becoming more..
    the next generation the children of these people
    are already crowding the hospitals..
    we need very urgent people from the east
    to come here and participate in creating a healing center as a model for the world
    at how to live a meditative rich life
    in harmony with oneself and nature..
    otherwise we are heading for a global suicide..
    through WAR
    and destruction of nature
    due to ignorance and greed

  139. shantam prem says:

    meera,
    Can you see some good points in the society you are born in?
    If not, can you tell where is the grass greener?

  140. Kranti says:

    Anand .. entry fee is 300 for Indian Nationals and 700 for others. I have not checked rates for other therapies. I can let you know when i am there in the next ten days if that is ok with you

  141. meera says:

    shantam ..
    you are talking like my mother..
    wonder if any of you ´sannyasins´ever
    understood what Osho is all about…
    its so boring to see such a comment…..like yours…
    so old fashioned ..stupid…
    how long time did you spent in Germany?
    are you sitting whole day with your girlfriend .. reading astrology?..you never go out anywhere?…
    wait and see once you will be left on your own..
    when your girlfriend wants to be free…
    then you will see what is Germany

    is it your gilfriend who is upset about what I´m saying..about Germany ?!

    she sounds exactly like my mother
    who is telling me to go back to India
    if there is any better..
    but India got destroyed by invaders.
    .violent westerners and arabs..
    India is a 3rld world country
    not because India is too stupid or lazy to work,,,
    as people here might believe

    and anyway I already said goodbye to most of you already…

  142. shantam prem says:

    Meera
    i take it as a compliment if i sound like your mother.
    Convey my regards to Mutti!

    Mother of my second child who is not sannyasin but loves India, has mentioned quite often Osho freaks habit of mixing,
    Apfel with Birne.

    Apple is apple and peaches are peaches, Mangoes and Bananas, strawberries and grapes, German and Bolivia, India or indonesia, Osho resort or world, it is all beautiful and crude, tough yet mellow at the same time.

    Let me find one quotation for you.
    (I could not find, where Osho says something like it is or choice to look at the throans or the Rose)
    May be to look at the complete picture.

    And yes.. i am living on my own in Germany. I love this country much more than the previous one, Switzerland, not because people or their values are bad there, but because i could not fit with them.
    Only the fox says, ” Grapes are sour” in the story.

    And Good bye.. don´t say yet.
    you are invited in Freiburg. (with your mother) Haha

  143. shantam prem says:

    Apple is apple and peaches are peaches, Mangoes and Bananas, strawberries and grapes, German and Bolivia, India or indonesia, Osho resort or world, it is all beautiful and crude, tough yet mellow at the same time.

    And than comes Osho…

    The man who dared to make the fruit cocktail of different cultures by peeling the boundries away.

    Who will forget Him saying something like,” West domination is complete. His is the last ditch effort to share the delicacy of East.”

    World as it was and as it is now is moving with its pace, but whether His people are running His workshop as per His vision is a question of debate.

    In my opinion, The power in the hands of arche type western mind at Pune, has derailed the senstivity of the vision.

  144. meera says:

    Power in the hands of politicians is dangerous..
    politicians made the borders… they create war..

    otherwise we are ONE WORLD

  145. shantam prem says:

    Power in the hands of politicians is dangerous…

    Ok..

    In whose hands it will remain safe.

    Answer- In the hands of enlightend people!

    Question- Where to find these rare species?

    Answer- to check the you tube. All the enlightend beings on this earth have something to convey through you tube?

    Question- how people should check that they are really enlightend, specially when enlightend being of one is an utter asshole for the other.

    Answer- therefore all these people should fight a democratic election. People will decide who is a real light unto himself…..

  146. amrito says:

    Interesting these discussions are comming close to the 20th anniversary of Osho leaving his body..

  147. shantam prem says:

    Tomorrow is Osho´s bithday… in few weeks 20th Anniversery of Osho leaving the body..
    One of my friend based in Pune has informed me with this SMS

    “season chal rahee hai…4 log edhar-udhar dekhana chaho to dikh jate hain”

    (season is in swing..4 people one can see here n there, when one wants to see.)

  148. Prem Abhay says:

    Where did Nirvanno die?

    Who found her?

    Was she long dead?

    Where was Jayesh (her boyfriend)?

    Did anyone in the adjacent rooms hear anything?

    Was Jayesh in Pune at the time?

    If he did not go to the funeral, why not?

    Did Nirvanno leave a suicide note?

    Did Nirvanno leave an empty box/packet of pills?

    Was a medical practicioner called?

    Who determined the cause of death?

    Happy Birthday to Justice

    Yahoo
    Abhay

  149. Prem Abhay says:

    Did Nirvanno have thalium solution injected into her ear?

    Was she sick in the days prior?

    Did Osho have thalium solution injected into his ear?

    Given that Osho had no successor, who would have been the most important person in the movement? Answer equals Nirvanno.

    Who now is the most important person in the movement? Answer equals Anando.

    Happy Birthday to Justice

    Yahoo
    Abhay

  150. shantam prem says:

    Bodies not but the vision can be resurrected, we just need to take care that things remain transparent.

    Power of His vision was a reality, thousands have lived it…
    This needs a new lease of life….it will be the unique contribution of Osho and His people.

  151. Chinmaya says:

    GREETINGS ON THIS BEAUTIFUL DAY OF OUR MASTER…..luv all friends.

  152. meera says:

    shantam prem
    once there are communes
    all over the world
    there will be no need for anyone to rule..

    each commune chooses the people who got
    ´merit´´
    that is why OSHO
    calls it a ´

    ´MERITOCRACY´

  153. shantam prem says:

    Meera
    Let the very first commune built by Him takes its roots and wings, only than another can follow.
    Osho wanted to add health club facilites so that people visiting the place don´t need to go any where else for their swim so that concentraed energy remains inside…

    and what we got?

  154. Chinmaya says:

    Meera and Shantam Prem are great contributors to any Thread on this blog. Gud luck to both of you.

  155. prem bubbie says:

    With sannyasins like these, who needs politicians?

  156. bodhi heeren says:

    With sannyasins like these who needs anti-cultist, sceptics, Osho-bashers and – haters? These guys seem to deliver it all.

    Anyway here is Prem Shunyos account of Nirvano’s last days

    “It was better for me to stay away from her, because I used to pick up her unhapiness very easily. On the last few occasions that I did visit her she would tell me about the anxiety and incredible pain she felt in her “hara” or lower stomach. For years she would wake each morning with a feeling of nausea in the pit of her stomach. After talking to her I would wake up the next morning with the same pain in my stomach. I would open my eyes and the first thing to flood me would be, “Oh no! Not another day!”. I was accepting her wounds as my own.

    (…) When I close my eyes to remember her I can only see her laughing. When she was happy, she was the most ecstatic, alive person I have ever met.

    In Buddha Hall the last time I sat next to her in meditation with Osho, in the silent period, I could hear a sound coming from inside her. I recognized that sound as one that I make when I am feeling very content, very centred and warm inside. I heard that coming from her. So I had some understanding of the space she was in. That’s why, when just one week later she died, I was very shiocked, because for me, knowing that space, I don’t think I could reach such depths of depression….

    I know that Osho tried everything possible. He gave her everything she wanted. He wanted to keep her here, but she was also free to go anywhere in the world she liked…..I think that if she could have stayed until Osho left His body, that would have been the “click”, the turning point for her. He said that her death was untimely”.

    After telling of Nirvanos funeral which – by Osho’s request – was only attended by around 40 people, Shunyo offers these concluding remarks:

    “I could never really know, but I have an idea, just how much He loved her. There was a magic between them that was never disturbed from His side by her moods and temperament.(..) Although I have no experience of past lives I always had the impression that their relationsship was ancient. He said in a discourse in 1978 that she had been His girlfriend in her past life (just 40 years ago) and she had died of typhoid and had promised to come back and take care of Him.

    (…) With Nirvano this was so clear to see that she was a beautiful “soul” or energy, and on the other hand a very difficult person. . Osho said she never meditated and she had always disturbed His work….” (From “Diamond Days With Osho”)

    Of course the chronic paranoids will dismiss this because Shunyo’s book is an official Poona release. But similar reports can be found in ‘independent’ books by Nirgun/Rosemary Hamilton and by Veena.

    So the attempts by Prem Abhay to turn Jayesh into a double murderer seem very telling about his (sad) state of mind and make it abundantly clear that his other acusations are nothing more than fabrications of a (seriously) disturbed mind. (And of course also says something about the people who flock around fake-Osho)

  157. shantam prem says:

    Thanks heeren for your above post. It gives a round about feeling to this thread.

  158. shantam prem says:

    Osho said she never meditated and she had always disturbed His work….” (From “Diamond Days With Osho”)

    Incidentally such kind of sentences i have heard about Nirvano´s last boy friend, who is the present and life long president of Osho movement.

    If i say truthfully, hardly i have seen any of the functionaries going for meditation other than the compulsory whiterobe.

    This i can say even about Keerti and Satya Vedant, who were in the ashram till 2000 and are now leading meditation camps.

    But even as the least clever from us can say, ” Meditation is a state of being. Even watching Porntube, i can go on observing.”

  159. shantam prem says:

    Osho said she never meditated and she had always disturbed His work….”

    In which discourse Osho has mentioned something like this about his life long companion, Nirvano.

    May be he said it like this in his girlie gossips in his private chambers, naturally where Shunyo was present.

    One thing come to my mind as i have heard Him speaking many times about ” intimate Enmity”.

    For sure, when a person connected so deeply with Osho commits suicide, it is quite a selfish act without consideration of the legal and moral impact it can create over the whole movement and also when Osho himself was passing through a very bad health phase.
    it was quite a brickmanship of others that news was crushed from the very begining.
    that is also the beauty of a corrupt Indian system that one can get any kind of postmartom report with the right Bakshish.

  160. Prem Abhay says:

    Bodhi Heeren you quote a few well know facts and then draw a conclusion about me. It does not follow from Nirvanno’s historically well documented issues anything about me, nor about what I have said in relation to Jayesh. It also does not follow that because Nirvanno has had ongoing serious emotional issues that she necessarily therefore took here own life. This error in thought process is one which you also seem to have taken here. Also let me inform you of a little more in the way of facts and analysis. The issue of Osho’s death was brought up in recent times by Harri Om, not me. Also, from the information that Harri Om brought to light, if there is any investigation into a senior Osho figure being implicated in anything suspicious, it is Amrito rather than Jayesh. I suggest here that you do a little research before you make wildly erroneous and misinformed accusations. Further, Harri Om made the logical point that Osho’s marked decline in health was from the time of his strangely incurable ear infection in Pune 2. He was at the time under the care of his close disciples and not the CIA. It follows therefore that there is reason to consider that if any intentional and malicious harm did come to Osho at the time, that it came from one (or more) of his close disciples.

    Bodhi Heeren you quote a few passages from Osho sannyasins and then draw conclusions about me. This is the same warped mentality that Osho sannyasins have used to manipulate both Osho’s words and the Osho movement in general. Jayesh and Amrito and others use and abuse Osho quotes to further their own slant on Osho. Like you, they also draw conclusions that do not follow from this. The use of Osho in this way is an abuse, and reflects a lack of intelligence as well as ill intent. People argue that Jayesh and Amrito are trying to rid the Osho movement of the curse of personality and nostalgia, of the curse of religion rather than religiousness. These people have not delved into the conduct, writings and sayings of Jayesh, Amrito, and others. These people are full of a false and religiously inclined mentality. You might like to call it religious extremism or fundamentalism.

    Bodhi Heeren my views of Jayesh are formed from the follow facts. It is a fact that for many years Osho sannyasins drank seriously contamintated ‘drinking’ water during monsoon periods. Knowing the type of serious and potentially life threatening contaminants that pass through the water supply in India, it follows that in all likelihood many many people have become ill, many have become very sick, and yes the potential is also there that some have died. Personally I would put the number at more than two. Also, Jayesh has been sufficiently involved with the resort to conclude that he cannot be said to be uninformed by the people at the coal face – so to speak. So yes Bodhi Heeren I clearly state here that Jayesh has some serious issues about his conduct. Of course he stands not alone.

    Yahoo
    Abhay

  161. swami prem martyn says:

    Dear everyone i have an Entrenched Position for sale.

    It has had one careful user, and i can honestly say that if you want to get nowhere fast , it will definitely do that. I dont know if I’m posting in the right section here. I have put it up for sale on ebay many times but it just didn’t shift.
    So i have been thinking …it happens all the time sitting on the blog here…anyone want to swap their entrenched position for mine, even for a test run-Swapsies…i’ll take absolutely no interest in it and hope you do the same for me….that way at least we got a good run for our money, getting nowhere,

    Thanks .
    wow devon is lovely in snow today.

  162. Swami Dev Arpit says:

    i just want to tell you all a little story about Nirvano (caretaker of osho)

    nirvano was born far away from india and osho…
    and when she came to india she donn’t even know about osho

    osho had called her and it was her destiny to meet osho because in the past life of her she born in kuchwada (the same place were osho born) india. she was osho’s childhood love
    but unfortunately she died at the age of 12 when osho was of 14 and at that time osho made a promise to her that he will call him wherever she will be and he did….

    this is all past story of Nirvano

    Nirvano was murdered?,commet sucide or went of just as normal as others does it make any sense?
    does it help us?
    does osho want these rubbies discousion to be on?
    osho alway being a lightmen to us on the path of history ..
    he always help us to find the truth behimd all the historical satements and all but the most important think is that he always want these things to be reveld to us for our help in inner journay.
    Does these kind of chat about nirvano’s death can help us in that?????
    and if anybody wabnt some of other fact about Nirvano they can mail me at “aarush.sharma13@gmail.com”

    Love to Osho and all Osho lovers…………

  163. For me, in the material world, it is quite sure that Osho as well as many sannyasins were (and some not informed on this for sure still are) chronically poisoned by the mercury fillings in their mouth. I myself was informed about the 12 fillings in my mouth when I was 14 years sannyas, 34 years of age and at the verge of death.

    Osho was given an enormous amount of mercury fillings over time, by his dentist Devageet, due to the bad quality of Osho’s teeth.. Osho however had trancended the mind and the mercury from the fillings can strongly influence the mind and also strongly disturb the connection with mother earth by blocking her energy that rises up through our legs and into our hearts.
    But maybe when enlightenment has disolved you, the influence of 24/7 mercury vapor into the brain is not that destructive. It nearly killed me and caused my sannyas life of celebration, love an fun to turn into journey of confusion and hell, towards doom, criminality, anger. strong sexual deviance. – One of the detox routes in a male body is through the sperm, So you could say I was extremely over sexual. Not a nice energy 24/7 to be in at all, I can assure you on that one. .

    When I was 34 and was in a very bad state, a friend (for life Swami Bodhi Prem, he saw me in his meditation ) informed me about the probably cause of my very difficult life: amalgam mercury fillings. I thought the story was really biserk, but because he was person I had trust in I decided to start with detox. Within a few hours to days I was in total shock, had several visions of getting my body back and suddenly had a very deep understanding of Osho’s statement “this body the Buddha, this earth the Lotus Paradise”, . For the first time in my sannyas life I started to understand Osho, not from the mind, but from the body itself.

    I knew the truth had found me, this was the reason that my life had declined from my earlier puberty and that even sannyas and the wisdom and love of Osho could not heal me from the spiral downwards, cause the chemical chronic toxicity was just too strong. Toxicologist see toxicity of mercury only second to radioactive uranium, one atom of mercury is toxic and there are hundreds of ill effects on the body and psyche that are almost never reckognized by MD’s, psychiatrist and other therapists.
    My real healing and spiritual growth started when I began to detox from mercury, not through dynamic meditation or the tourist program in The Humaniversity, or Samarpan and so many other groups in Puna

    The chronic mercury release from the dental fillings causes seretonine neurotransmitter to be lower all the time. This again causes addiction behavior, cause the body reckognizes that something is wrong and starts looking for kicks in order to highten the amount of seretonine to normal levels, even if it is just for a small moment. Alcoholism, drug addiction, sexual deviation, depression, suicidal tendency, halucinations, and many more psychiatric effects are caused by mercury from the fillings.

    I was lucky that Body Prem told me in time, else I would certainly not have been here anymore.
    I strongly suspect that next to Osho many of the inner circle were customers of Devageet and that he was not aware at all about the extremely dangerous mercury issue.

    The enormous amount of mercury that went into Osho’s body due to drilling out old amalgams as well as placing new amalgams are most probably the main cause of the strong detoriation of his health and his death, This maybe in combination with a poisoning in the jails in USA.

    Vivek, Nirvano, was a customer of Devageet, so most probably had lots of mental problems from the mercury being released 24/7 from her dental fillings.

    Interesting detail:
    Do you know that the factory that always has been producing and marketing these mercury dental fillings all over the world, up to the year 2000 is exactly the same factory that has made Zyklon-B in WWII: Degussa, part of BasF.

    Read
    http://www.profit-over-life.org/ of Dr. Rath
    http://www.iaomt.org/

    For me, one thing Osho has not been telling us is that there is an elite, maybe even alliens (Zacharia Sitchins books) that have more control over us then we even begin to realize, Much more so then politicians and priest who are also just mere puppets in the hands of these super elites. Osho only talked about the politicians and priests, he never talked about the banking families, the elites, who are behind them all. I suspect he new some of these things.
    I remember that one day he stated that he did not believe in the creation of earth in six days – as in the bible, but he also did not agree with the evolution theorie of Darwin.. but did not elaborate.. he knew more but did not inform us.

    To return to the main theme:
    95% of modern western man has these mercury fillings in its mouth, hundreds of millions of people, A large dangerous problem that none of us has seen or realised, cause it just too close by to be noted, it is inside our own mouths!!
    Now that more and more people are becoming aware of these fillings and have them removed, are taking year long detox programs in trying to recover – as far it is individually possible, now the Evoniks (former Degussa), Baxter and other farmaceutical concerns are shifting to more advanced tools for sickening and killing hundreds of millions of people: vaccinations. A new method of destroying, especially those with more dlicate systems

  164. ashok bhide says:

    At certain seniority you cant be alone , need good companoin