The Constellation of Osho’s family

THE FAMILY into which one is born -

well, it certainly has a lot to say about the ground work of a person one becomes.

Two person or three person families – pretty strange fare in pre-war IndiaFamilies were big then!

Osho was the eldest of 11 children!  (One wonders about his poor mother.)

Osho did not live with his parents after birth.  Our understanding was that Osho’s mother was a teenager when she had him and he lived with his grandparents for the first seven years of his life.

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Osho’s parents in  old age. They both became neo-sannyasins of Osho

Perhaps one thing in particular which is worthy of comment it rarely receives is the role of Osho’s younger brother, Vijay. Osho refused to marry, and this was extremely difficult decision for the first born of such a family. However he was much helped by Vijay who he acknowledged :

Osho says: “I am very grateful to my brother, Vijay. He could not go to the university just because of me, because I was not earning, and somebody had to provide for the family. My other brothers went to university too, and their expenses had also to be paid, so Vijay stayed at home. He really sacrificed. It is worth a fortune to have such a beautiful brother. He sacrificed everything. I was not willing to marry, although my family was insistent.
Vijay told me, “Bhaiyya”—bhaiyya means brother—”if they are torturing you too much, I am ready to get married. Just promise me one thing: you will have to choose the girl.” It was an arranged marriage as all marriages are in India.
I said, “I can do that.” But his sacrifice touched me, and it helped me tremendously. Once he was married I was completely forgotten (by the family) , because I have other brothers and sisters. Once he was married, then there were the others to be married. 

Also I was not ready to do any business. Vijay said, “Don’t be worried, I am ready to do any kind of work.” And from a very young age he became involved in very mundane things. I feel for him immensely. My gratitude to him is great.”

Vijay outlived Osho and continued to care for his mother in the Pune Resort until she died some years after Osho. It was his life’s work, he subsequently died a short time after her.

SN outline these remarks as stimuli for certain questions.

How far can one be said to be “lucky” with one’s family constellation? (As Osho considered himself to be).

How far is it meaningful to see the mystical life as “going beyond the family”. ?

And many other questions SN is sure that arise within this kind of parameter!   Comments welcome.

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87 Responses to The Constellation of Osho’s family

  1. Simond says:

    Osho appeared to be very fortunate with his family. He describes how much they sacrificed for him and also how they recognised him so early and so consistently.

    Perhaps his example reveals the depth and love of an Indian family in ways that are less common in the West. Here, divided families are more typical and notions like ‘independence’ and selfishness are valued to a much greater degree.

    Almost everyone I have known on the so-called spritual path has had problems with the family in one way or another. Indeed, for many, the search for love ( and truth ) is a direct result of the difficulties we have faced as children. It is the lack of love and harmony from without that has instilled in us the search for more love, meaning and freedom from the shackles of our familial life.

    In this sense, the journey was always a ‘reaction against’ rather than a positive one. We’ve been ‘victims’ of unconcious and unloving parenting.

    Such was the generation of the 50s and 60s who were drawn to Osho and with whom he had to work. And so it’s hardly surprising that dynamic meditation and those early groups were born of these conditions. Repressed and depressed individuals from the West, who were confused about love and emotions and whose parenting was pretty poor. I was one of them! (I can’t make any comment about the Indians who were atracted to Osho, what motivated them is outside of my experience).

    The family is a symbol of the way in which human beings pass on unloving and unconscious attributes from one generation to another. It’s up to the individual, me, to see through the conditioning and free myself. In doing so, there were times when I had to reject my family as I also had to reject friends. This seemed the only way to move on.

    Later, as I removed the source of my anger and pain, I saw things differently. I saw that however damaged and pained I’d been, so my family and my parents were victims of their past, and I found myself more loving towards them.

    Later generations in the West have been more fortunate. The Victorian age, from which I seem to have been born, has passed. The young today are a new breed, less affected by their parenting, more clued up to the world, more intelligent, closer to their emotions than I. But in their aspiration to become free, so they too appear to have to uncondition themselves from the family and all that is familiar and safe.

    The danger of the family is that it is, simply. familiar. And familiarity breeds contempt…!

    • Arpana says:

      “Later, as I removed the source of my anger and pain, I saw things differently. I saw that however damaged and pained I’d been, so my family and my parents were victims of their past, and I found myself more loving towards them.”

      Big step that one. Good post.

  2. shantam prem says:

    Disciples who have lived during life and time of Osho discuss such issues, what future generation of disciples will do?

    What kind of legacy we as disciples will leave behind should be the pressing issue.

    Anyway, everyone who has rags-to-riches story feels gratitude and happy. Lucky for all the circumstances of childhood.

    • Arpana says:

      Don’t talk such claptrap, Shantam booby.

      It’s our responsibility to become more conscious, get to know ourselves, form decent relationships with ourselves.

  3. shantam prem says:

    “It’s our responsibility to become more conscious, get to know ourselves, form decent relationships with ourselves”
    Is this not true from the time of Socrates? Are we* doing something extraordinary?

    * I don´t think I am part of that “we”; the so-called meditators, burning midnight oil to do some kind of homework.

    • Arpana says:

      You definitely are not part of the “we”, Shantam booby. You are part of that world Osho works to rid us of. The world of those who take no responsibility for their own inner lives.

    • satyadeva says:

      I don’t intend to get into yet another pointless argument with you, Shantam, but I suggest you, er, ‘enlighten’ the readers at SN re what you think Sannyas is actually all about.

      Not only that, but also – given your oft expressed contempt for meditation, a meditative way of being, self-enquiry (including self-healing via therapies etc.) etc. etc. – what you personally advocate (and, of course, practise) for what you Indians call ‘spiritual sadhana’, Sannyas-style.

      So, Alfie – er, I mean, Shantam – what’s it all about, eh?

  4. shantam prem says:

    Arpana, let me say it in a fiery way:
    People like you remind me how much important is to have living master. It is a fucking belief of old mind that dead masters go on working. If it is so, sannyasins were befooled. What is wrong with dead Jesus or dead Buddha?

    I am just happy that you are not affiliated with ISIS! Most of your reactions show what kind of rotten bastard you are.

  5. Parmartha says:

    Thanks for your earlier post, Simond, well reasoned and one that must have reflected many, though not all, SN readers’ experiences.

    I would, echoing you, observe that Osho was extremely lucky with his family. It was he himself who said that it was unheard of that parents of enlightened people ever became their disciples. But in Osho’s case, they did.

    I was looking after the young son of a girlfriend in 1979 in the ashram. At that time, believe it or not, children were not so unwelcome there. This friendly boy, Prem Jody, who even made good friends with beggars, struck up a friendship out of the blue with Osho’s father. I was never sure what it was about, but they always seemed to amuse each other, and for a while ‘bumped into’ each other every day. I knew from then that Osho had been very lucky with his father.

    Liberation from the family seems to have been and is the order of the day for most genuine mystics. They often become what the Metropolitan Police call ‘missing persons’!

    Jesus rebuked his mother when she wanted to see him for a one-to-one, with what must have been hurtful words:
    “You are no longer my mother, and my brothers are no longer my brothers. Now the whole world is my mother and my brother.”
    Powerful words, but very sad making to those in the immediate family.

    The Buddha felt the need to leave his own wife and children, in order to “become anew”.
    Universal love of necessity eclipses personal love. No wonder the Greeks had a totally separate word for each.

    • Simond says:

      Yes, Parmartha, the words of Jesus may have been hurtful. Doesn’t it express how, even then, ‘personal love’ as you describe it, was limited?

      It would seem that this type of loving is as old as the hills, and those past generations were largely as confused as modern mankind.

      I prefer to see how Osho’s parents embraced him as an example of how living truthfully affected them. In the same way, the prodigal son is often remembered far more than the dutiful, who stayed at home. Both are examples of how through living more honestly the wider effects are felt inside the family and in the individuals themselves. The ‘hurt’ was ultimately positive.

      We are the product of generations of misconceptions about what real love is and confusion as to how to live truthfully, beyond the personal.

      Yes, we may have to reject our parents, as we may have to reject many of the mores of the so called civilised society. And I know that for myself, it was only because I was courageous enough to do so, that I found a new freedom and was able to assist my parents and others.

  6. shantam prem says:

    Without going into the present situation of Osho´s biological family, something will remain incomplete. Because photo speaks louder than words, here is one sample photo.

    Distributing spirituality in wholesale and retail is now family´s specialisation.

    • Parmartha says:

      Enigmatic, as always, Shantam.
      Go on explain to the layman what you mean, and the personages you want to declaim and let’s see….

      • bodhi heeren says:

        The guy to the left of the pic is Osho’s younger brother, who today is called Osho Shailendra. Shantam doesn’t like him because he claims that he – and the two others in the pic, the Sadguru Triviti – is enlightened. (And I’m sure Parmartha, you would not like him too).

        They have a centre called Oshodara. Anyone interested can check their website, oshodara.com

        The whole thing is very Indian, discourses etc. in Hindi and definitely not something for the (small) SN-’crowd’.

        • frank says:

          Bodhi,
          The “small SN crowd” just got bigger!
          Welcome!
          You said you only dropped in once a year.
          I knew you wouldn’t be able to resist it.

          Btw, I like these Oshodhara guys.
          They are good enlightentertainment.
          As Billy Connolly said,
          “Never trust a man who, left alone in a room with a tea-cosy, doesn`t try it on.”

  7. Sw. Anand Yogi says:

    It is said that Osho waited 600 years for this incarnation. He needed exactly the right circumstances and family for his work. His parents were special. They died enlightened. It is mind-boggling that parents will take Sannyas from their own child. Good post, Simond.

    • Parmartha says:

      Good point, Yogi. It has always seemed somehow ‘difficult to explain’ how Osho was born into, what on the face of it, seemed such disadvantaged circumstances: in the middle of India, far from any centre of learning, and in a small village down a dirt track with one or two shops.

      I have worked with ‘large’ families in the UK when a professional social worker in a London ghetto – certainly, many of them are nightmares, and at least one, and sometimes two of the siblings are unloved, and have mental health difficulties. Just not enough love to go round.

      My own great-great-grandmother had eight children, and the stories of her behaviour with the siblings, if true, are difficult to believe, but they included physical abuse on a wide scale.

      So large families are no guarantee of anything.

      But as you rightly point out, Yogi, Osho waited 600 years for just the right family – and even more extraordinary, it contained 11 children! AND that family was really in the back of beyond in thirties India!

      • anand yogi says:

        Perfectly correct!!

      • Simond says:

        Come off it – 600 years? Did he walk on water as well? Feed the 5000? No need for such hyperbole.

        Let’s just keep to the miraculous facts that he was a lucky bunny to have a great family, not get too misty-eyed and mystical?

        • satyadeva says:

          But let’s not forget that Anand Yogi, a confirmed Indian spiritual authority, has endorsed this extremely significant detail, Simond. And surely we must at times put aside our western intellectual materialist scepticism to embrace such esoteric grandeur?

        • Sw. Anand Yogi says:

          “It is said that Osho waited 600 years for this incarnation. He needed exactly the right circumstances and family for his work. His parents were special. They died enlightened. It is mind-boggling that parents will take sannyas from their own child. Good post, Simond.”

          There are two early books that dealt with this and other esoterica: ‘The Silent Explosion’ and ‘I Am the Gate’.

          • anand yogi says:

            Yes, the story of the occult society known as ‘Nine Unknown Men of Ashoka’ controlling Hitler to create a new world order is also clearly outlined by Osho in ‘I am the Gate’.

            I have checked the Akashik records. It was actually 700 years. A very significant number, if you are an initiate who knows about these matters, which you probably will not if you are an ex-sannyasin, failed disciple or are completely lost in the rational mind!

            The same ‘Nine Men’ are still active and are working through Arun and Modi to create a truly yogic yuga with Mighty Bhorat at the helm as a spiritual superpower!

            Yahoo!

  8. shantam prem says:

    Osho waited 600 years for just the right family…
    And then he waited 52,53 years more for the right man…
    This right man got the last message at the last moments, “I leave you my Dream.” ( No one knows whether it is like this. There were people who were holding microphones before Buddha 25 centuries ago about his famous last statement: “Be your own light till Phillips distributes bulbs in your village”).

    When truth and mythology meet, great religions get birth.
    When esoteric and facts meet, great religions start growing.
    Great religions don´t die. People come and go. Religions survive.
    It is not mandatory that religions must have 20 million followers minimum.
    Few dozens are enough sometimes, many times.

    • satyadeva says:

      Shantam’s taking his time telling us what ‘real’ Sannyas is for him…Perhaps he’s forgotten…

      And no doubt he’s struggling to think of how to describe his own personal spiritual practice…Could it be that he doesn’t have (as it were) one?

      But hold on, can you hear this grief-stricken lament – by Jove, I do believe it’s a mantra – stridently wailing its anger and pain far and wide through the days and nights?

      “Osho coulda been a contender – he coulda bin the world champ…you motherfuckers just stood by while the bastards jus’ killed ‘im.

      It coulda bin a religion – it shoulda bin a religion…the greatest of ‘em all…

      I coulda bin a contender…You ruined my life, you fuckin’ assholes!”

      Now that’s what I call real SAD(hana)….

  9. prem martyn says:

    If I had waited 600 years to incarnate I would have put Sheela and Teertha and the rest of the clutz bunnies in charge of building an utterly non-dysfunctional Sannyas family too.

    After all, if an organisation has enough wafty-robed messengers of heart-to-heart, egalitarian, royal front row, qualified specialists of feeling assessment and pointfulness via the love of paths, you can always gloss over the details of the cock-ups along the way. It’s a family, Jim, but not as we know it.

    Still, if all else fails you can always take the family to court (sound of mad, cackling laughter off-stage), divorce them and claim rightful legacy.

    Now then, back to that forgiveness thing…I’m sure someone left it here somewhere…I can’t count the number of times I have been forgiven…oh yes, I’ve been so forgiven so many times that I’ve forgotten…Might have left it behind the sofa…umm, no, that’s an old copy of SN…similar to forgiveness in that they re-hash old commune stuff with shitloads of benign understanding…apparently.

  10. bodhi heeren says:

    For anyone with an open mind (sorry to exclude simond/phoenix and most of the other ‘pundits’ this way) here is some of Osho’s quotes on his previous life/lives

    http://www.oshoworld.com/biography/innercontent.asp?FileName=biography1/01-01-past.txt

    And yes, I am aware that Osho in other contexts dismissed the notion of past lives and reincarnation and often spoke negatively about karma, a concept that seems intrinsically woven with rebirth/incarnation.

    Personally, I feel Osho spoke more freely about esoteric matters in the early years – where these quotes are from – addressing a small group of more experienced (mainly Indian) sannyasins. And even if it may offend some, Osho was…a MYSTIC!

    • anand yogi says:

      Perfectly correct, Bodhiheeren!
      It is absolutely necessary to have an open mind to see, as you say, that the Indian sannyasins were more experienced and knowledgable in the esoteric matters of controlling Hitler through the ether and the fact that Osho was a high lama gilded with gold in the hidden bunkers of the Potala Palace, 700 hundred years ago!

      It is good, Bodhi, that you have managed to shake off your western rational mind, divest yourself of the inner baboon that thinks that it knows, but knows nothing, like Simond etc. and other pundits who speak meaningless gibberish like ignorant half-time pundits on Saturday night!

      Bodhi, you have clearly embraced the truth of mighty Bhorat and have hurled yourself in prostration at the feet of the master and banged your head on the holy marble in time-honoured tradition!

      The results shine through like the Sun itself in conjunction with Uranus.as the Vedic seers in the ancient science of starsigns have pointed out!

      Hari Om!

    • Simond says:

      Dear Bodhi Heeren,

      I. too, am a mystic (a mystic is someone who loves the mystery) and I have read many of the earlier, more esoteric writings from Osho. I loved them, often found them very useful.

      I’m also open-minded, but this means I use all my senses and awareness with discretion. And I use my experience and inner instinct as my guide to determine what is true or false. I don’t just believe what Osho or anyone else tells me.

      I don’t quote these early writings or his later ones for that matter, just as I very rarely quote Osho or anyone. And I don’t believe or disbelieve them. I read them with the knowledge that Osho appeared to contradict himself a lot.

      One day, past lives were spoken of, the next day, he spoke of them irreverently. I always understood that he spoke to an audience, and he altered the style and content to suit that audience. When speaking to Indians, especially in the early days, he praised and condemned the culture and religions of India. This was his way of attracting spiritually-minded Indians.

      Later on, he shifted his audience to the westerners. He was lured and fascinated by the West, in the way the West has been fascinated by the East. Opposites are drawn to each other, and in many ways the mix failed both sides.

      As a result, when he says or someone else says that he waited 600 years for a family to be born into, I don’t just believe it. What was the context of the statement? To whom was he speaking? I don’t say Yes and I don’t say No to the statement.

      I’m certainly wary when people quote these sorts of statements as if they are true.

      I guess it just means I don’t like belief systems of any kind.

  11. shantam prem says:

    I have not understood yet,
    Osho was a great master
    or
    Osho is a great master!

    Should one say,
    Osho Says, “……..” or Osho Said, “……..”?

    Implications are quite dramatic.
    More dramatic than Live-in or Marriage!

  12. Parmartha says:

    This old photo
    - any Indian sannyasins want to identify these members of Osho’s family from Gadarwara?

    • prem martyn says:

      Looks like the cameraman forgot to ask them to say ‘Paneer’.

      Or is it:
      ‘Mr and Mrs Rajneesh and family on a recent camping holiday, having forgotten the tent, settle down for a nice evening in, in front of the telly, despite being out’?

      Or:
      ‘Winners of the Lucknow and Highlanders Inter-Regiment Dhobi Wallah and Yarn Spinners Chakra Wheel Lottery 1936, celebrate their prize win of a magic carpet flight for all the family’?

  13. shantam prem says:

    Parmartha, with the above kind of photo, you are doing not a good work as per the dictates of Osho Foundation International. They have destroyed all the old photos of Osho in their archives.

    Such family reunion photos create human touch, one cannot build the myths around “Never Born, Never Died”.

    • Parmartha says:

      Shantam,
      You fail to understand someone who thinks for himself. You see life as political, and you are either for or against, for example OIF.

      I am not sure that what you say is not some kind of bad- mouthing, and where is your proof?

      BUT even if true, it makes no difference to me, the origins of Osho and his family and early life are important to get a full rounded picture of the ‘man’, and there cannot be any harm in that, in fact only good.

      The fact that he came from a family which was totally different from the vast majority of, and nearly all of his western disciples is significant.

  14. Parmartha says:

    A friend has just told me that Osho’s birth family was actually living in the 19th century. His father and mother were wed at ages 10 and 7 respectively…

    The generations were all mixed up, and his mother actually looked after four children before Osho came along, who were his cousins.

    My God, what an ‘extended’ family.

  15. Lokesh says:

    In recalling the time I worked in Osho’s parents’ house I enter a space that I imagine is similar to remembering a previous incarnation. The difference between the two experiences being that I know for sure that the memories do in fact belong to me. It was forty years ago, yet my recollections remain colourful when summoning up images of the events described.

    Upon entering their home, the excitement about finding myself there soon wore off. Osho’s mum and dad were quite ordinary. I observed them close up and they did not appear particularly special in any sort of spiritual way. They were a bit like parents whose son had become a rich and famous popstar, except being Indian he was a rich and famous guru. They appeared happy to have a relatively carefree life, with nothing better to do than enjoy their son’s success.

    The house was usually lively, with lots of Indian sannyasin friends round in the afternoons for a knees-up in the form of singing bajans. A charming and loving Hindu dream stage, upon which I played the role of humble western maintainance man in the background.

    What it makes me feel now is what a remarkably varied life I have been blessed with. Those were good times and the little contact I had with Osho’s folks was very positive. They were kind and gentle people.

    I find Osho’s comments about waiting six hundred years etc. to be something best taken with a pinch of salt. Back in the day, many of us were prone to the sentiments conjured up by a good fairytale. Osho, being a master storyteller, was happy to oblige.

    And so there we sat under his spell as he spun a yarn about previous incarnations etc., which had the general effect of making us feel very privileged to be there, sittting silently, listening to his cosmic bunkum, while the grass grew by itslf. Really fantastic and I would not have missed it for the world.

    As for SN’s remarks as stimuli for certain questions, all depends how you look at it. I loved the family I grew up with, although not to the point of feeling lucky about it. It simply was what it was. In a strange kind of way, my parents were quite spiritual people, but it is only long after their deaths that I have become aware of the fact.

    “How far is it meaningful to see the mystical life as ‘going beyond the family’?” Not nearly as meaningful as going beyond one’s limited ego self.

  16. shantam prem says:

    “Osho’s mum and dad were quite ordinary. I observed them close up and they did not appear particularly special in any sort of spiritual way”

    Maybe Lokesh has the expectation Osho´s parents will be like Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt: full of wow! energy. Their ordinariness is their quality.

    Nobody has ever thought about the family in some ways illustrated. This is the wonder of life; history is full with rags-to-riches stories, prodigal sons and daughters who create history in their chosen field.

    Who knows, next great man or woman is born in the West? Let us say Hallelujah, world´s most famous princess is expecting!

    • Arpana says:

      Shantam booby,
      Always so wise about that which he has no experience of.

    • Arpana says:

      Shantam booby, you’re jealous again. You poisonous fat shit. Jealous because Lokesh met them.

      • shantam prem says:

        Arpana, don´t degrade Lokesh by taking position on his behalf. Man is too intelligent and experienced than your shitty reactions.

        I am sure you don´t have any girlfriend or boyfriend. The way you jump on my posts like a little puppy, no lover can ever be proud of to be with such small-minded man.

        So my advice is to develop some capacity to think and write on your own. No dignified lover also likes a person who copy/pastes textbooks.

        I really don´t want to waste fire on mean-minded people. Read my posts or ignore them, but if you want to act or react than learn some psychoanalytical skills from Satyadeva. Howsoever I may react, my toughest critic pushes me for retrospection. (MOD: retrospection = introspection?)

    • Lokesh says:

      I am quite sure that I did have some expectations at the time about entering Osho’s parents’ home and what they would be like. Nine times out of ten, whatever the mind projects you can predict that it won’t pan out like that.

      That said, any predictions that I might have had would not have fitted into a Hollywod star framework. If you just let things happen in such situations, often as not the outcome can be a pleasant surprise, as was the case upon being in close proximity to Osho’s mother and father.

      They were an incarnation of quintessential Hinduism’s positive manifestation on a down-to-earth level, in that they were gentle, peace-loving people who enjoyed to celebrate their transient existence in the play of life.

      • shantam prem says:

        That generation of Osho´s parents’ and grandparents’ time were in a way living in the “Innocent phase of Indian society.” They were like other millions of families without any political inclinations and social awareness. All this modern stuff came with the British education.

        As a young person, I was also full of rage against British Empire, but later on I realised it was one of the biggest blessings for Indian subcontinent. They brought education, technology and political awareness. It is not surprising, almost 90% leaders of India´s freedom movement were studying in Oxford and Cambridge.

        Somewhere it really astonishes me why Rajneesh Chandra Jain of that time did not go for his Ph.D in England. He paints himself that brilliant student who has good rapture (MOD: rapport, SHANTAM?!!) with professors, I wonder why someone did not arrange scholarship for him to go for higher kill at Oxbridge.

        One can be quite sure, Osho´s spiritual movement would have taken a very different form.

        I am sure deep down we all are aware that Osho Sannyas becoming an export product was just a circumstantial event. It was not planned in this way, it looks like.

        People who travel on illegal papers and fake passports or enrol in the western universities with the intention to get residence plan more meticulously than someone like me, who came here because of the circumstances of being in the ashram at the right time and with right kind of people around.

        Similar was (phase of which is over long ago) Osho´s Sannyas in the West.

        This innocent phase of India ended with the demise of that generaion, let us say Osho´s parents’ generation, my grandparents’ generation.
        Sisters of Osho got married with local businessmen. Few brothers got regular mid-level education and one, Dr. Shailandra Jain, studied Medicine, worked as a doctor and finally got that special kick called Sambodhi from his wife Priya, who got it from another seeker, Sidhartha ji.

        These three people are the trinity of enlightenment. If there is a record book to enlist such things, they are really the record breakers. Three enlightened people running the show. There must be atomic watt energy around them!

        (Ref. http://www.oshodahra.com)

        • Arpana says:

          Another failed attempt on the part of Shantam booby to pass himself off as intelligent.

        • Lokesh says:

          “One can be quite sure, Osho´s spiritual movement would have taken a very different form.”

          That is debatable as well as being pure speculation.

          “I am sure deep down we all are aware that Osho Sannyas becoming an export product was just a circumstantial event. It was not planned in this way, it looks like.”

          Someone obviously needs glasses.

  17. frank says:

    Medication time!

  18. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    We may be getting ready, friends, to get more acquainted and to acknowledge what is meant by
    A VERY EXTRAORDINARY – ORDINARY MAN. One of our old Sannyas love songs in music group(s) has been celebrating this.

    We may be getting ready to share and recall and integrate different individual experiences without fighting fights of self-acclaimed importance, proclaiming having separately ‘the’ only right overview.

    I had been writing a long post myself yesterday, but missed the moment where to push the send-off button, to join the stream.

    However, the issue around this thread is a very essential one, one of those with the challenge to see the ordinariness in extraordinariness and vice versa.

    I could relate so deeply with your posts, Simond, Parmartha and Anand Yogi. And reading your post of this evening, Lokesh, made it at least possible to write a ´thank you all for sharing´ post, which I will send off finally.

    I guess it´s not the last time that issues of this kind are needed or coming up in a maturity processing.

    It´s amazing, isn´t it, that there seems to be no time in Time?

    With Love,

    Madhu

  19. Sw. Anand Yogi says:

    Lokesh, I find your story amazing. I too was given the work assignment that you just described. I was the first ‘house boy’ when Osho’s parents first moved in. I worked in the kitchen with Geeta and Sita Ma, making various chutneys and serving meals to Osho’s parents and later on to other family members who came to visit.

    I loved it. I was aware of being part of history in the making. Could I have been the first Caucasian servant in an Indian household? In a post-colonial India it was hilarious! The stares from the visitors who came to see the parents were priceless. There can’t be many of us, Lokesh, with that job description.

    I found the parents to be special in that they were genuinely humble and heartfelt people. They were not demanding of anybody. They were gentle, loving and humorous with each other. For several months I had the opportunity to ‘work’ in their house. Each week they would go to meet with Osho and many times they would come back to tell me that Osho had asked how I was doing.

    The day they returned to their village they said goodbye to me. They thanked me for being of service to them. Dadaji then pulls a ten rupee note out of his purse and hands it to me. It was a sweet gesture. He makes a joke in Hindi and everybody laughs. I think he said, “Don’t spend it all in one place”, though I could be wrong.

    • frank says:

      That`s a good story too, Yogi…
      The ex-colonials put to work in the kitchen…and the world being turned upside-down so you end up playing parts you never would have dreamed of…
      Perfect.
      Good to hear that Grandad liked a bit of laugh, too
      Way to go….

    • satyadeva says:

      Great anecdotes – but ‘frankly’, I thought you were 100% Indian, Yogi…Perhaps you’re an ‘Anglo-Indian’?

      • Sw. Anand Yogi says:

        No, I’m still Caucasian. There is more than one Yogi posting here. I’m the handsome one.

    • Lokesh says:

      A ten rupee tip! I am going to complain to the spiritual union.

      • Sw. Anand Yogi says:

        Yes, and those were the days when a rupee was worth something. One could go to the Pune railway station and buy a thali for a rupee.

  20. prem martyn says:

    I never worked in Osho’s house…still, it was marvellous…All day, I would think, “Gosh, not working again in Osho’s house, with him not around, nor his mum or dad, boy oh boy.”

    It was then that I realised I was lumbered with my own company for the rest of my life and it’s been quite an eye-opener, I can tell anyone who might want to know more, just what it’s like to be me.

    I’m thinking of writing a few notes and maybe a film to follow called ‘Ho-humming, the Alpha and the…Oh, what’s the point?’

  21. shantam prem says:

    The Sovereign holds the title ‘Defender of the Faith and Supreme Governor of the Church of England’. Queen may be the Head of the Church, but in a modern era she is just like everybody as far as enlightenment is concerned.

    For spiritual seekers, therefore, it won´t create lifelong impressions, if they work for her. For many, it can be adrenaline rush.

    In Pune, those who were working in Lao Tzu, the residence compound of Osho, were like everybody else, yet a class apart.

    I think all had the possibility to pick and choose their boyfriend /girlfriend; who would not like to breathe in the holy land?

    Thousands could find a leaf for their life´s history books, hundreds of thousands will see the images of such leaves at facebook!

  22. madhu dagmar franbtzen says:

    “It was then that I realised I was lumbered with my own company for the rest of my life and it’s been quite an eye-opener, I can tell anyone who might want to know more, just what it’s like to be me.”

    Oh yes, please, Martyn, go ahead, telling us…
    Sounds you didn´t lose humour in all that ´lumbering´.

    Looking forward to your sharing this…
    with
    a
    Smile,

    Madhu

  23. Parmartha says:

    Politics in the ‘Court’ of the king, whoever is the king, is always there. Maybe, Shantam, that’s why you are good at recognising it.

    What happened in the Court of Osho has many similarities to what happened in the Court of Henry 8th, or any other Monarch.

    I often find your meaning abstruse. What on earth is your last sentence supposed to mean?

    • shantam prem says:

      “Politics in the ‘Court’ of the king, whoever is the king, is always there.”

      That is the nature of the things. Only question is politics healthy and progressive as one sees in South Korea or it is like North Korea, one man show?

      These two countries with same language, same blood, same DNA, are the examples how much politics can affect the life of people.
      Politics itself is an evolutionary process, that is why it is taught in the universities as independent subject, and that too with a tag of Science!

      People like Arpana can bark over me, but fact remains the fact, meditative people around Osho have never played healthy politics. It was manipulative. As long as master was alive, carpet was there to cover the dust, now situation is different. With pride comes the fall is the moral of the Sannyas story.

      And about the last sentence of my last post:
      “Thousands could find a leaf for their life´s history books, hundreds of thousands will see the images of such leaves at facebook!”

      This sentence was like culmination of the thought process, where people around Osho gathered experiences of lifetime, like ten rupees note received by Sw. Anand Yogi, and because there is no continuity of that commune, so new people who will tremble on Osho´s path have to remain satisfied with the stories of others.

      But anyway, next time I will be more aware to fix the sentences in a western logical format. Indian style is not always easy to follow.

      Our differences start from the days of toilet training! So great certified seekers from the West, don´t forget for a minute, the mystics of the East you read, majority of them have not seen toilet paper in their whole life!

      • Arpana says:

        But of course you, Shantam booby, unlike everyone else who has ever got involved in Sannyas, is pure of heart. Only you know sincerity.

        That none of us here want to run Sannyas and be Osho’s successor, won’t support you in your bid to do so, is a sign, in your eyes, of our warped ambition, whereas your lust for power is a sign of your purity.

        Fuck off, you fat twat.

      • anand yogi says:

        Perfectly correct, Shantambhai!
        It is true that the Indian style of writing which you embody is not always easy to follow!
        Just as it is not always easy to follow into a toilet where the Indian style of crapping has taken place!

        These depraved logical psycho-analitic baboons who are totally lost in their logical minds insist on writing sentences that actually make logical sense!
        See the madness of the mind!
        Bhai, the heights of wisdom to which you have attained free you from this absurd logical demands of the perverted western mind that knows neither how to write nor wipe its ass!

        And this insistence on writing metaphors that have not been mixed in non-export-quality Bajaj cement mixers with faulty wiring filled with effluents from public Indian toilet to save rupees is a symptom of the western mind which is nothing but mind!

        In the matter of toilet training it is the same!
        There is no logical problem:
        Simply pull down the chuddies and splash and splatt it all out all over the place when and where you wish,and even if you misfire badly or do not remove the holy underwear in time, there is no need to employ the mind!

        It clearly works in the matter of your words of wisdom which clearly gush forth unimpeded from the very bowels of mighty Bhorat itself!

        And it has worked for all us who have had the good karma to be born on the hallowed and browned soil of the Indian incontinent!

        These western baboons do not understand the truths imparted by the sages of mighty Bhorat who, whilst giving discourse, often scratched their noses and experienced the fragrance of the beyond and the behind!

        These mighty yogis who knew how religions evolve, made it clear that if someone has to clean it up, it is always someone less fortunate than yourself and it is simply their karma and they should be thankful for this opportunity to redress the checks and balances of reincarnation!

        It is time that these western logical psycho-analists in Korea-gaon Park and on Sannyas News realised that for those who, in a truly mindless state, use the hand both on ass and keyboard in no particular logical order are bound to produce a style that only those used to the scents and fragrances of mighty Bhorat can appreciate!

        Yahoo!
        Hari Om!
        Fffft!

        • shantam prem says:

          Yogi,
          This is worth a laugh…
          Moment to moment live, love, laugh…
          Don´t worry if it cost hell of the money.

        • frank says:

          I have said it before…
          I have devised a means to transcend the East/West conundrum posed by Kipling re toilet behaviour.

          It is a meditation in 3 parts:
          First, I use a bit of bog paper to get the first layer of crap off.
          Second, I use a small bottle of water and the left hand to really clean the area,
          and then third, mop, wipe and dry up with a some quilted 3-ply to finish.

          I feel I have combined the wisdom of the Mystics of India and the scientific West.
          And also merged the left-hand path of Tantra with the left-brained/right-handed Western culture.

          Think:
          Zorba the Buddha with an empty ouzo bottle full of water in one hand and a roll of the Pali canon in the other.

          East meets West.

          I leave you my dream….

  24. Arpana says:

    “Politics in the ‘Court’ of the king, whoever is the king, is always there.”

    Interesting how such a succinct phrase can absolutely nail something.

  25. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    “Politics in the ‘Court’ of the king, whoever is the King, is always there.”

    Yes, Parmartha, Arpana…

    Tears of the mystic roses, in the midst of a big, big mystical rose garden, left by a Zen gardener. And don´t you forget the Garden. And you are part of it.

    And so am I.

    Madhu

  26. prem martyn says:

    How can anyone and I mean anyone, give veneration to anyone else on the planet and then go and make a market for it? Is a suffering humanity really able to get cured? A bit more fun maybe, a bit more unnecessary trouble likely, but a kind, generous, supportive knowingness as a way of life between egos who are self-searching, using booked paid weekends? Place your bets.

    That should be definitive of minding one’s own business in tandem with others doing the same for whatever common goal one chooses. What is minding one’s own business in common? That whoever the fuck I am you will never be and wice-wersa. So thus avoiding clan hierarchies. If you need a nodding peer group clan there is no problem, but it’s not a template for everyone else to admire is it?

    The most common human frailty is to go oooohhhh, ahhhhhhh and then make it into a kow-towy way of life.

    It’s as sad as it is successful. As if you or me has an address to market as a cure for human yearning. Let me tell you clearly I do not… (sorry to disappoint).

    Osho lived his life and set out on becoming a shaktipatter as much through the universe’s dice playing destiny choosing to do its thing, as the rest of the story it dishes out on a daily basis in every way. Lucky Osho. Shame about the rest. Lucky I’m not entirely buggered too.

    It’s great to be wowed, it’s great to be alive, even if fast asleep and blithely self-indulgent, it’s also great to tell the chief bottle-washers of the human spirit and all the alternative funky world of caring and sharing to…bog off and go make a cuppa, ta.

    My love will do nicely for me as your love, however marvellous, cannot become my ambition or identity. That’s the replicated or mirrored daily ‘I’ talking. Don’t take offence, none intended. Swap roles if you are, become that me!

    Alternatively that other Universal, melting, knee-trembling ‘I’ of seekers/ bourgeois indulgencers is a best-kept secret and tends to make one look idiotic in collective photos at festivals, groups etc. as I/we/they edge my/themselves from domesticity to floundering communion with the divine. Swaying and hugging our way in-between ordinariness and sheer mundanity, think Totnes or Glastonbury or advertised self-search Osh festivals.

    Osho himself wanted us to keep being betrayed, perhaps even consciously betraying each other as much as possible to reduce us to zero infatuation with other mortals, especially using love and sex openly to burn us with in-between Satoris of self-realisation. And don’t mention Ranches.

    And then contrarily…we rush to say how amazing a therapist or group leader was/is as if they have something we don’t, without ever having been practically domestically co-dependent with them, or they us, we rush to identify yet another love address. Oooh, look, its Mr or Mrs Halo with a photo gallery to boot. Whilst they smarm. Do me a favour.

    On 2nd thoughts, don’t. This is no theory. I lived it. And I don’t recognise now what the hell that fuss was all about. Weird. Done that, been there.

  27. Lokesh says:

    Martyn enquires, ‘ Is a suffering humanity really able to get cured?’
    It may well be the case that a cure is not necessary. So much suffering exists in this world that one can imagine that is how it was intended, Life can appear like a pain factory. Perhaps this type of psychic energy is required for something beyond our uderstanding. Who really knows?

  28. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    Lokesh, reading your response to Prem Martyn, but also to the wave as such, you know, that´s some of the flavour of the small bunch of contributing flowers here (including the stink of some); what I love is when somebody like Yogi then has been contributing a help to get ´out of the mind´ nand switch levels – a way we in the West are so rarely capable of.

    Also to remind in a way to an issue of ´Kali Yuga´ as it is named, where we all (EAST and WEST) are living in.

    I love that we are at least a little bit multi-cultural here.

    And that´s what was not only the great challenge in former days but also is it now.

    And this dream, still alive in my soul at least, to live as the universal soul, living on this planet (in exactly the school-class where I am), but knowing there are Friends around, even though I might not be able to hug them or share a TEA just now.

    In this spirit, I say hello to you, Lokesh, to Prem Martyn (whom I wanted to resound early morning before grabbed by another ´local wave´ this morning). I love that you have been posting this morning.

    And say ´hello´ to Sannyas News too, although the term ´news´ should be, maybe, replaced by a better one?

    Love,

    Madhu

  29. shantam prem says:

    Am I asking for power?
    I am not born into holy family, neither I was financing the cars and world tour. I had not done any wheeling and dealing to make a sleepy suburb of Koregaon Park into world address.

    I am also not a great meditator, I don´t know how to address in a hypnotic tone before the microphone and lead weekend workshops.

    I just wish a simple wish, respect the last wish of your master, even if you’re never going to meet him again in the eternity or if you expect He comes to receive you at the Pearly Gates.

    Let His work be administered by 20 long-time disciples who have lived their life around him. Let these 20 people be the specimen how communication is possible, how differences can be resolved; how Pune can be a magnet again for collective meditations…

    Beaches full with people make waves in the ocean dance. Lonely travellers on the beaches means it is winter and you can pee anywhere!

    P.S:
    Last sentence wants to imply human beings are social animals. Collective energy can be used wonderfully for human growth. And for God’s sake, don´t ask, “We don´t see any growth in you.”

    Watch your fucking reactions…!

  30. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    Some Indian-Caucasian firecrackers lightening up the no – paths of caravanserai corners.
    First time I had a laugh today, Anand Yogi, but confess it was more nervous than a relaxed one.

    So I’m gonna read your ´crackers´ again, which I often do, to get the full blaze (ie ‘insight working’)…And also, as I am a woman, this sometimes takes a little while to get it….

    Thanks, meanwhile –

    Madhu

  31. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    Be glad, I say to you, Lokesh, that you are living, how you say, in the countryside, on a European beautiful island, and have compassion to those, please, who live under other conditions.

    Madhu

  32. shantam prem says:

    What makes Osho apart from other Indian gurus is his complete distance from the family by not giving them any extra advantage.

    One son of his sister, who was working in the photo department, stole a camera. That was it. No one saw him in the ashram again. He was banned.

    Other contemporary masters who presided over multi-million dollars worth of property portfolios and cash have always kept one of their blood relatives in the trustees to keep the eye upon the working. Osho did not.

    (MOD:LAST 2 parags. DELETED)

  33. Lokesh says:

    Chud Meister declares, “What makes Osho apart from other Indian gurus is his complete distance from the family by not giving them any extra advantage.”

    This is absolute, uninformed nonsense.