The Buddhafield Paradox: Letter from Shantam Prem

Beloved Friends,
I am sure anyone who has read and listened Osho, has felt a thrill of some new opening in the heart and being. There must be still around half million people alive, who just read His books and felt to book the flight, whereever he was residing… There must be thousands and thousands who got the taste of Osho´s Commune for years, or for weeks as per our individual circumstances and choices.

We all know that during the last few years the concept of “A Commune” has been buried and in it’s place there is the concept of a “Resort”. In my opinion the distance between these two, is as thin as between loving and liking or between a one night stand and love affair.

But it is my personal opinion, who knows, the wise people running the show may have implemented the collective will of fellow sannyasins, or maybe Osho mentioned it explicitly in some discourse I have not read.

My simple question is that howsoever small or big evolution has taken place in our hearts and being – is it just because of His discourses and meditation techniques – or also and perhaps more importantly the collective atmosphere of a Buddhafield playing this role?

As I understand Osho designed and modified His commune in such a way that it would go on enriching generations to come, therefore I feel that without any affiliation to any group or tribes, changes for the sake of changing were not required.

My humble request is that if you feel Resort is serving the purpose of fiery growth in us, please visit the place as regularly as you used to visit during the early years and if you feel that team of Jayesh and Amrito have made a foul, please don´t hesitate to show them a card. Appreciate it or condemn it, but please don´t ignore the show happening at 17; koregaon Park, Pune.

with love
Shantam Prem

This entry was posted in News. Bookmark the permalink.

314 Responses to The Buddhafield Paradox: Letter from Shantam Prem

  1. Dilruba says:

    Shantam .. ofcourse the ” Buddhafeild ” & a collective atmoshphere does play a roll .. l / we have experianced it .. whether Master is in the body or after he has left his body .. after one has lived in this atmosphere .. there comes a time .. when one knows the role of it all .. and that is to be one’s own Master

    ”My humble request is that if you feel Resort is serving the purpose of fiery growth in us, please visit the place as regularly as you used to visit during the early years and if you feel that team of Jayesh and Amrito have made a foul, please don´t hesitate to show them a card. Appreciate it or condemn it, but please don´t ignore the show happening at 17; koregaon Park, Pune. ”

    If you feel so concerned .. you should be in Koregaon Park ..
    Best service is self service !

  2. Anthony thompson says:

    My friend shantam. It was your master the one who wanted to change it from commune to resort… health club was the name he used…

  3. I came accross something interesting Osho talking about future…after he leaves the body…

    Q: SO WHEN YOU GO, WHEN YOU DIE, WILL A WOMAN BECOME THE LEADER OF THE RAJNEESHEES?

    A: I don’t care. I don’t care at all. I am a man who is not concerned with past or future.

    Q: BUT YOU CARE FOR THE FUTURE OF RAJNEESHEES?

    A: I care in this moment. It is not caring about their future. In this moment I care. What happens tommorrow I have nothing to do with. But in this moment, whatsoever response arises in me I have to share with my people.

    Q: HAVE YOU MET A WOMAN WHO COULD DO THE JOB THAT YOU’RE DOING AS WELL?

    A: It is very difficult to say. Because unless the opportunity is given, one never knows what a woman can do, what a man can do. It is always the opportunity. While I am here it is difficult for any woman to do what I am doing. Once I am gone, perhaps a woman can do it better than a man. Perhaps she may do even better than me. After all, unfortunately, I belong to the male race.
    (The Last Testament, Vol , Chapter #5)

    Another point to consider:

    Every great religious peak is destroyed after the death of the master by blind donkeys. You will not be able to recognize them, because these blind donkeys are not the donkeys you know. These blind donkeys are the pundits, the rabbis, the bishops, the popes, the shankaracharyas. These blind donkeys go on destroying everything, because they have to manipulate the public mind. They are not concerned about saving the truth. Who cares about the truth? — the real question is how many followers you have.
    Everybody cares about having more power, and there is only one power outside, and that is the power of having the masses behind you. But to have the masses behind you, you have to be behind them. You have to come to all kinds of compromises, otherwise they will not follow you.
    (Rinzai: Master of the Irrational, Chapter #8
    31 October 1988 )

    Sucheta is right. She has stumbled on the right thing. ONE OF THE KEY WORDS TO ME AND TO OTHERS’ EXPERIENCES HERE IS ‘ENERGY’. I CAN FEEL IT — SOMETIMES MORE, SOMETIMES LESS — AND I ALSO FEEL THAT OPENING MYSELF MORE TO EXPERIENCING IT, IS LETTING IT DO THE JOB OF CHANGE.
    Perfectly true. You will feel it sometimes more and sometimes less, not because it is sometimes more and sometimes less, but because you are sometimes more sensitive and sometimes less sensitive. The energy is continuously flowing, the river is continuously flowing — it depends on your sensitivity how much you will be able to feel it in a certain moment. It is not that sometimes the energy is here and sometimes it disappears, it is here twenty-four hours. It is going to be here as long as I am here, or, for those who are sensitive enough, it will be available after I am gone. It depends on you.
    Sufis: The People of the Path, Vol 2
    Chapter #2, Que 3

  4. You are also asking, “My beloved Master, after our death will you still be, in some mysterious way, with our wandering consciousness?”

    We are not separate, even now — nobody is separate; the whole existence is one organic unity. The idea of separation is because of our forgetfulness. It is almost as if every leaf of the tree started thinking it is separate, separate from other leaves… but deep down they are nourished by the same roots. It is one tree; the leaves may be many. It is one existence; the manifestations may be many.

    I am with you right now. I have been with you forever, and I will be with you for eternity — there is no other way. Knowing oneself, one thing becomes absolutely clear: no man is an island — we are a continent, a vast continent, an infinite existence without any boundaries. The same life runs through all, the same love fills every heart, the same joy dances in every being. Just because of our misunderstanding, we think we are separate.
    The idea of separation is our illusion.
    The idea of oneness will be our experience of the ultimate truth.

    The Hidden Splendor
    Chapter #18
    21 March 1987

  5. Prem Abhay says:

    Anthony there is nothing healthy about the so-called health club. The powers that be have the systems in place that have found out how unhealthy the place is. Then the powers that be let the health of the place degrade even further. In the end, I suppose the measuring stick itself gets corrupted. Did Osho request that an unhealthy club be made to look like a healthy club? I think not.

    It is interesting here to understanding the systematic practice of the establishment. The key for them is, as Keerti’s points out above, that everything appears to be as people would like. The importance is on protecting the all important brand image so that people will come and the powers that be will become very powerful. Over the years, and especially in the last ten, all the problems that have come up have been swept under the carpet. Then a nice collection of lies are made up to condemn any questioning, and the media is also fed these lies if need be. The reality is that the problems remain, and can only fester as they remain untended.

    This systematic problem has reached a critical limit in many areas – as I have stated many times. Perhaps the most serious problem has just arisen: the Headley terrorist connection. I have just read that Headley had stayed at both hotels that were the target of attacks last November in Mumbai.

    The elite Pune police investigative powers have managed to find out the price of entrance to the Resort. Unfortunately their investigations revealed the price was 500 ruppee for Indians, when the actual price is 300 ruppee. In the face of the current serious situation, their competence is entirely in disrepute. Again if we look at Sadhana’s capacity to have a hold of the situation, we find that she grossly inflates the number of people at the resort. Ironically this can only seek to further make the resort a possible candidate for terrorism. She has now declined to comment further to the media – in part no doubt because of her disastrous efforts to date. The resorts current position, via Sadhana, is that systems are now in place at the Resort to deal with the circumstances. She is unwilling to explain any details as this may compromise the value of the systems and plans. From the historic pattern of incompetence and lies I find the official position distinctly dubious. Based on the past pattern, it is likely that an entirely ignorant, adhoc, inconsistent, useless, and incomplete plan is now in place. I have absolutely no faith in the resorts official deceptive mask, and the Pune police are either entwined in the corruption and ignorance, or are more so incompetent and corrupt.

    If there is the threat of terrorism from Headley and his cohorts, then it is more than likely to be well planned, well trained for, and well executed. I have little faith in Dhyanesh and his little army of thugs. In fact, based on information provided to me, Dhyanesh has a little file at Interpol that states that he tried to set up a Westerner for a murder. The corruption and criminality by the establishment should be investigated and exposed. Only in this way will the underlying magnetic potential for conflict or be removed.

    On the surface it may appear that it is the Resort battling against religious extremism. The truth is that the last ten years of Resort growth has been expansion into the genre of religious extremism. This type of extremism either invites people of a similar mind-set to come into the fold, or to be pitted against them. It is an inevitable consequence of the underlying reality of religious fanaticism undertaken by the establishment – that has alienated the majority of the Osho movement.

    I am proud to say Anthony has not a clue what is really going on at the so-called health club.

    Yahoo
    Abhay
    http://oshobuddhism.blogspot.com

  6. Prem says:

    Friends,
    It was prerogative of Osho to say,’ hate me or love me , but you can’t ignore me’

    Do we have such people or persons left in this movement called OshoResort ?

    May be Swami Rajneesh is making waves, but his voice is being muffled.

    Is this the legacy of Osho we are trying to move further.

  7. Kranti says:

    Shantam

    I am not comparing the Pune which was there when Osho and now. Without the Master the collective energy can never be the same …

    Without comparing when i look at the situation , I feel like this…

    Ultimately the transformation is always always Inner.. What you call commune or others call resort is a support sysyem..Surely the collective energy and sharing has its place..I will say it is very much required in everyone’s spiritual journey for a period of time.. Then the path has to be walked alone.. letting of off dependencies on communes

    Now what Pune is doing is something which we all have discussed and every one has theie part of truth..

    No view is completely right or completely wrong..

    Ultimately as an individual what you want ?

    A place to meditate , dance , relate with fellow sannyasins.. Is there in PUne.. To me it is there very much there.. I dony miss anything there.. At the most i can think of some devotional methods missing for people who need it..

    Dilruba is right whe she says ‘ you should be in Koregaon Park ”

    Apart from this what someone like Abhay says is more about practival issues which i agree to the extent he has done research..But his info regarding what solutions had been taken are outdated and he agreed to it..

    Water contamination issue is very important..but it is not related towards your spiritual growth

    The more we mix up that kind of issues and project on the management it will look like they are highly negative people.. It is ridiculous for someone to paint that kind of picture..all mental stuff..

    The current terrorist situation IS really serious as Abhay & Prem Bubblie points out.. I only hope the management will tighten the security as there is no point in compromising the safety and life of people

    Now that Osho is flowering in so many ways..in so many places , lets see which place suits us and go and dance and meditate..

    To me any thing other than is just an avoidance of meditation and facing Inner growth.. I did this for long time.. i substituted my focus with outer issues….Now personally i reslize i ‘just have to meditate’ and listen to Osho.. things will settle down inside

    But I understand the pain in your heart because i am experiencing the same ..

    Shantam Prem..You miss Osho’s place.. His people..

    As dilruba said

    ” you should be in Koregaon Park ”

    I am booking my tickets ..

    Hope you also do the same..

    Let Osho’s energy guide us..

    If Puen doesnt welcome us / suits I will go to Oshoworld , If they dont welcome us / suits us then I will go to Nisarga…. If that also doesnt work out ( There is no priority here ..Any place related to Osho is beautfiful ) I will meditate & dance in my house.. right where I am..

  8. sannyasnews says:

    Keerti and Dhanyam appear to have made contributions here, and sannyasnews is most grateful to them.
    The commune as we knew it was not just a commune it was a Buddhafield. This is a different concept from a commune. Almost all communes fail in the conventional sense. The problem of control always arises, and people just fall out.
    A Buddhafield as described by Osho and other Buddhas is a different concept. it does depend on the presence of someone enlightened (assuming you give credence to that notion) and its reason for being is the contagion of enlightened consciousness that occurs when a Master is around, even to those not directly his disciples. Some even measure this physically at about 10 miles.
    Many so-called great mystics had Buddhafields. They are not new. Buddha, Jesus and Rumi to name a few.
    But the esoteric force of a Budhhafield does not seem to protect from the vagaries of human nature. Rumi’s teacher was himself killed by Rumi’s own disciples. Jesus’s disciples denied him. And the Buddha though apparently he often sat with his disicples in the same way as Osho sat with us, both in silence and in discourse, split into 300 fragments after his death.
    What is the alternative? … Well the hermit and yogi path? Then life could be argued to get much less complicated! But I have often thought a yogic enlightenment would be so much less rich than a tantric one…. and so it goes. The matter cannot be easily decided except to say that the experience of Buddhafield life for a genuine seeker is very valuable, buit an addiction to it for one’s whole life may well be mistaken!

  9. Kranti says:

    It is great to see sannyasnews participation

    It is more like what Osho called ‘ Participate in life..Dont be a spectator ‘

    this makes the discussion even more interesting.

    I came across a Osho quote which to me is very significant quote.. Something which captures the essense of wat He was trying to do

    ” “My function is very different from the function of Gautam Buddha. His function is only a small part of my philosophy. I want individuals to become enlightened, but I want also the whole of humanity to rise with the enlightened people. They may not become enlightened, but at least become conscious enough so that nations disappear, religions disappear, races disappear, and we can live as one humanity, as one earth.”

    When Osho was in body.. He was a Buddha and the space around him was a Buddhafield.. Now what we have here is the just the teaching being carried forward to keep the level of conciouness growing in as many people as possible until some other master picks up the role when the intensity gets diluted..

  10. prem bubbie says:

    Swami Rajneesh, if you look at him plainly,he probably suffers from schizophrenia. Multi-personality disorder. He also suffers from multi parrot disorder. Just look at him and listen to him . You don’t need to be a shrink to see this.. I pity the man and pity the brain damaged individuals who think he is some sort of god. Take off your blinkers Prem,

  11. prem bubbie says:

    Sannyasnews: You deny how the buddhafield was built. Pune 1… profits from drug deals and dozens of Ma’s given an ultimatum by Laxmi to work as prostitutes and split the proceeds with the ashram…The Ranch… Rumor has that it was bought with drug profits.. ok a rumor but from what I know , I believe them. also, terrorists disguised as sannyasins(sheela and her thugs) creating an unsustainable community, her choice for the commune’s location was unworkable from the get go. Sheela and her crew demanding from many sannyasins either they marry their foreign friends or leave the ranch. Sheela’s alleged heroin addiction, and of course the infamous poisoning the locals water supply. Threats made to Hasia and her crew, the bugging of Osho’s house, public telephones. Pune 2 I’m less familiar with, any of you want to add on about pune2. The Buddhafield was some thing, I know I lived it. It was all about Osho. Sannyasins are pretty pathetic without him around, even with him around. I mention all of this because, you have tunnel vision. You look at the tiny positive, and ignore the negative, it STILL hounds us, yet, it is ignored. ‘Fess up, lay it all on the table. Come clean from way back. Lets hear all the shit that occurred from pune 1 until now,, so we can learn, don’t fear it, then we can grow. ‘Cause from what I’m reading the same shit is still happening and the buddhafield is just an illusion.

  12. prem bubbie says:

    Pardon… “Poisoning of local salad bar…”

  13. prem bubbie says:

    Can we for one day.. not quote from Osho? We are using him as a crutch… How about coming up with your own quotes, from your life experiences? Is that too difficult to ask? Start living your meditativeness.

  14. frank says:

    sannyas news,
    how on earth do you know that
    “jesus had a buddhafield”?

    nuage mumbojumboistas,you are.

    jesus` buddhafield……
    consisting of……
    illegal wine makers,hookers,collaborators,aggressive beggars,men from the east bearing “expensive herbs and spices`,sinners,fishy characters,donkey thieves,…..

    come to think of it,sounds kind of familiar,somehow………

  15. oshobob says:

    bubbie, you are asking for some very touchy areas to be opened up for transparency by sannyasins — drugs, prostitution, bioterrorism, and just plain lunkhead stupidity–but, i’m all for it…everyone knows the osho people are not angels anyway, and the sannyas activity has been moribund for some time now, so what does anyone have to lose…

    Sw. Shiva the “bodyguard” touched on some things in his book, and basically got blackballed by the sannyas community, but so what, what did he lose in the end…

    Sw. Paritosh, aka “Sam”, wrote a whole chapter in his book about drug dealing from India to Europe — going through the ‘Green Channel’, though it seemed it was his personal trip, he didn’t mention anything about giving a cut to the ashram, but at least he wrote about it, as a documentary piece by a sannyasin. I was surprised.

    The prostitution stories are a little more difficult to confess to and expose publicly, just the nature of it….but the Korean “comfort women” for the Japs of WW2 came out in their 60′s and 70′s and told their story recently–at least some did.

    and no need to correct your “water supply poisoning’ reference during the Ranch times, bubbie– as far as i know, there was a plan for that too, just never carried out. At least that was the story reported in the media….

  16. Anand says:

    Prem bubbie: rumors, rumors, rumors. Dp you have nothing else to offer then
    repeating old rumor stories (at least over 20 years older then your own experience). Why not let go of the past and live in the NOW?

  17. frank says:

    oshobob,
    smugling a bit or a lot of dope……
    dodgy deals with electronic equipment,watches,gold….
    selling your body to rich arabs for much needed wanderlust dollars….
    that was fairly standard fare on the now-legendary “overland trail”,of which poona became a destination to rival even goa and katmandu by late 70s.

    dum maro dum……

    yes,bhagwan was mr.natural for the acid generation.

    he was the guy who,in 69/70 watched “woodstock,the movie”in a picture house somewhere in india,saw the maharishi onstage,saw the longhairs jumping around butt naked,giving it the freaky dancing,and said
    “these are my people”

    i dont see any problem.

  18. Anthony thompson says:

    interesting story. some corrections thou.
    Osho did not see maharishi in woodstock but shivananda, and some session of kundalini yoga.
    Prostitution, oh yes rather satrdard, I would say. cut to the ashram? i do not know. Drug dealing money given to the ashram as donations , ah yes. The whole marble walk way around the buddha grove was payed with that.
    Osho encouraged it? oh no… osho didnt care where the money came from… oh yes.
    Osho blessing suitcases full of ash taken by laxmi´s brother to europe.. oh yes.
    Sheela going berserk and trying to kill everyone… oh yes, Osho knowing it… oh no.

  19. shantam prem says:

    Anthony, about your two lines explanation, i will say it is as easy as once Buddha mentioned about the meat eating.

    When Osho used the world health club, it had a totally different meaning as what the bosses on behalf of the minority beneficiaries are doing.

    May be i can try to bring the history in my words.

    People who were visiting Pune were used to go to Blue Diamond Swimming pool or 40 Kms. away to the Mulshi lake for the swimming.
    Osho was making it clear that once you are here be here totally, so keeping in mind people´s need he instructed to create Swimming pool and other allied services like Tennis of basketball courtsso that energy is not distracted.

    Also not allowing any kind of dependency situation between the participants he discouraged the long term stay. People must go for work in the real world and come to Pune as per their holidays to refill their batteries.
    SO a new term was coined “Essential workers”, to run day to day affair for a growing organisation one requires few essential workers, there numbers will be limited and they will be financially self sufficient and in case of some special requirement such workers will be provided food passes, because of this many Indians could stay in the commune.
    Other than these essential workers other participants were enouraged to share their work. Such people used to have the free gate pass facility and in this way people felt involved and needed in the Buddhafield´s expansion.

    This system was working perfectly well till 1999, but was creating some psychological problem in the minds of Jyesh and company to accommodate the different point of views, specially from the”heart Lobby.”
    Basically He is the Valdamir Putin of the ashram. Without doubt the boss has the knack to make and loose money in the share market, he knows how to create a construction company but Buddha field kind of things run more efficiently with passion and collective contribution rather than one person´s manipulative skills.

    Tell me Anthony, one sannyasin who will leave a fraction of his property for Ashram´s advancement. There are many many rich sannyasins in the west, many don´t have children for a natural inheritance, i don´t think there is even one who will do this as long as this kind of system is in place.

  20. shantam prem says:

    Attraction to be in Pune during Osho´s life time was just because of the master or the whole package of international gathering and meditations mixed with love affairs were also playing the role?

    What so ever, once someone was there, it was quite difficult to go away. Many Indians went into the flat or bikes renting business. Few people went into illegal activites to support their finances.
    When this was pointed to Osho, he send the message through Amrito, the essence is as valid today as it was than.
    “Those who are on the path, must remember the thin line between need and greed and It is not possible to reach the right goals through the wrong means. Better to go home and arrange money through work and come back rather than indulging in illeagl activites.
    When People used to get their visa prologation through the local police, this was also discouagred therefore every one must leave Poona after the six months period, the duration of normal visa.

    But on the other side, laws were manipulted keeping in mind the needs of the powerful lobby or for the service of some higher cause and that was Osho himself.

  21. Anand says:

    Sannyasins wanted to stay near Osho in the 70ties and if their money run out, they tried different ways. Girls drove to Bombay, guys packed suitcases, but cut backs to the ashram? Give me a break. And we all know about the next generation of creative geniusses moving to Mill Valley….. Then if they decided to give a generous donation, why not? There was a huge money shortage in Pune 2 due to the tax bill….

  22. Anand says:

    Shantam: interesting point, with so many sannyasins now in the ri sixties and without any children, a huge pool of possible inheritances will start coming up in 10 or more years from now. With a huge heart connection, the Resort and OI could profit from this, but they alienated themselves from this strong base of future donations.

  23. shantam prem says:

    “I am proud to say Anthony has not a clue what is really going on at the so-called health club.”

    Anthony with all my love for you i wish to say, somewhere unbiased resercher in you have gone into the trap of Stockholm syndrom!

    If a well stocked chemist shop simply starts the policy of few medicines and the medicine you like is by chance their, does it mean all the customers are happy?

    As a researcher it is an obligation to be objective with one´s own preferences. But i know about a skillful doctor, who checks his own pulse and decides what patients require.

    I also know few 60 Plus gentlemen who were fucking around all the time and are still doing but to the coming youngsters, they recommend only the Playboy and Hustler and porntube and “self sufficient” meditations,
    For millena sages were preaching , “The growth lies in one´s own hands!

  24. frank says:

    excuse me tony.
    my memories of woodstock the movie are vague(of course).
    –it was satchidananda.

  25. shantam prem says:

    Exactly Anand,
    “With a huge heart connection, the Resort and OI could profit from this, but they alienated themselves from this strong base of future donations.”

    In the early times, places of higher learning were dependent upon the generosity of the kings and queens.
    Now it is the gratitude and thankfulness towards Alma mater, that millions flow towards universities, and in the west it is so normal for many to leave their property for church purposes.

    For Osho´s work too, this is a possiblity but it won´t happen as long as arrogance of the crown prince doesnot understand that Osho´s expansion can only take place through the hearts of His people, that thousands of his contemprary sannyasins may not have a personal audience with Osho but can have the same understanding and may be even more refined.
    And personal audience with Osho, Who has it more than Nirvano, the ma who died an untimely death.
    Why and where and how?

    Anthony..what you say?
    Can you create a new thread, soon we will have the 20st death aniversery of her. A woman who lived as a shadow of the master and was cremated in the shadowy silence of a night.

  26. Anthony thompson says:

    yes… now you make me doubt frank… I think you are right. it was the guy you say satchidananda….or not

  27. frank says:

    satchidananda was the disciple of shivananda.
    a very strict yoga guru who forbade the eating of chillis,garlic,coffee etc.

    ug krishnamurti claims that he caught shivananda hiding in a cupboard at his ashram,stuffing his face with chilli pickle….

    you see,i have done some in-depth research about vitally important matters too……

    what a long strange trip its been…..

  28. Anthony thompson says:

    it is no surprising… we both have heard those stories and more

  29. prem bubbie says:

    Those Anand, Those involved told me…and my own personal involvement… That’s as good as it gets. Please, don’t give me that old sannyas trip. “be in the now” crap/ That is for meditation purposes only…. You didn’t get it, did you? The same mistakes and head trips are still happening , no different from 30 years ago!!!! You got a fogged up mind, dude!!!

  30. prem bubbie says:

    Thanks Oshobob, I guess you see the point I’ve been making. Back in New York I knew a guy who was a sannyasin but also one of satchidananda’s chief disciples. He was also a cocaine dealer. Goes to show, it can be any guru!!

  31. prem bubbie says:

    There’s no such thing as an “untimely” death.

  32. shantam prem says:

    No-Thought for the Day ®
    Copyright © 2009 Osho International Foundation

    “You may be the last generation who has the possibility to rebel.
    And if you don´t rebel, there may be no more chances: humanity can be reduced to a robot-like existence. So rebel while the time is still there!”

    Just a small rebellious act, let me try to paste the quotation without R And C in the circle.

  33. shantam prem says:

    No-Thought for the Day
    Osho

    “You may be the last generation who has the possibility to rebel.
    And if you don´t rebel, there may be no more chances: humanity can be reduced to a robot-like existence. So rebel while the time is still there!”

    Please, feel the difference.
    Lion of a circle and lion in a jungle.

  34. shantam prem says:

    Osho is dead. His photos are of no use. Why to use His rebel quotations. They are irrelevant now.
    Joy, celebrate,meditate kind of words, the non controversial words, and the books with such titles; so that when people go to buy oninons and apple juice on the way they can fetch such titles too.

    But how true His words are.

  35. Dilruba says:

    If at all there was any ” foul made ” .. it was by Osho himself .. he was definitely living the Tao !

  36. shantam prem says:

    Can you explain a little more your thesis, Dilruba?

  37. Dilruba says:

    yes Shantam .. lam feeling like lam in a court being examined .. anyway .. let me defend myself .. When Osho .. started off as
    ” Acharya ”..he(Osho) spoke against the whole ”Sannyas ” &
    ” Institution business” .. Maa Pragya .. whose family is from Ahmedabad , Gujrat .. their family knew him from the mid 60′s .. when he was traveling and giving talks .. later he decided to give sannyas & also have an ashram .. that when one of Pragya maa’s brothers was angry with ” Acharya” on starting both which he had condemned earlier .. Osho said to him ” that he had to (implying he had no choice) ” .. and this was told to me by Pragya maa in the last meeting we had about 6 weeks back

  38. shantam prem says:

    No No Dilruba, you are not in the court to be examined by right wing sannyasin.
    See, “Osho” with all its implications have become such an integral part of our life that best way is to gather all the nuts and bolts and links and missing links to construct the stroy in its most authentic yet intriguing form.
    Meditation and watching the breath and chanting Ram Ram Ram and going to the Sunday mass, our ancestors were doing it for thousands of years.

    MAy be we can have a bit of thrill on the way, and also it is Scientific not just to get healed but study all the symptoms and remedies.

    Any way, it is nice to see your comments again.
    “Charewati Charewati……”

  39. Dilruba says:

    Yes Dear .. Chareveti .. Chareveti .. there is no other way

  40. Shantam is absolutely right about the following…..

    “Those who are on the path, must remember the thin line between need and greed and It is not possible to reach the right goals through the wrong means. Better to go home and arrange money through work and come back rather than indulging in illegal activities.
    When People used to get their visa prolonged through the local police, this was also discouaged therefore every one must leave Poona after the six months period, the duration of normal visa.

  41. “Just a small rebellious act, let me try to paste the quotation without R And C in the circle.”

    Thousands of people are lready doing it and soon millions are going to do it.

  42. “Osho blessing suitcases full of ash taken by laxmi´s brother to europe.. oh yes.”

    No no. This absolutely wrong, though Laxmi and her brother are dead, they cannot protest.

  43. “…profits from drug deals and dozens of Ma’s given an ultimatum by Laxmi to work as prostitutes and split the proceeds with the ashram…”

    This is bullshit. It never happened in Pune One.

  44. Anthony thompson says:

    I agree with keerti. I have no information of anything like this. Lots of women resorted to prostitution to stay on… but I have never heard of having to give a cut to the ashram. Actually i know a few of them… and they deny such information.

    regarding what you say keerti regarding drugs. sure they can not protest. but that is not my fault.

  45. Anand says:

    Prem Bubbie:
    Please, don’t give me that old sannyas trip. “be in the now” crap/ That is for meditation purposes only….

    Such an unenlightened statement! Prem Bubbie, Sleep over it……. Being in the Now is all there is and ever will be.

    Thanks Keerti for clarification. I totally agree, having lived in Pune 1 and 2.
    And any money was helpful when needed, is also true.

  46. Kranti says:

    “…profits from drug deals and dozens of Ma’s given an ultimatum by Laxmi to work as prostitutes and split the proceeds with the ashram…”

    This is bullshit. It never happened in Pune One.

    Thanks Sw Keerti .. I was a bit disturbed by that..

  47. shantam prem says:

    As an Indian, most of us are grown up in the atmosphare of religious and spiritual cottage and small scale industries around.
    Osho´s words and His movement by and large was the cleanest one.
    May be many of us who have spend years can give the credit of 9.5 out of 10 to the whole movement in regard to sincerety of the purpose yet few deadly virus entered the system. May be it is still not to late to install the anti virus programme.

  48. prem bubbie says:

    anand, your golden halo is so bright i can see it here in the states!! Spare me your “enlightenment”. All actions in this world are based in the past. If you can’t see that then you’re nuttier than Sw. rajneesh!!! Another Fantasyland resident!!

  49. meera says:

    prem bubbie…
    if you look at him plainly,
    he probably suffers from schizophrenia.
    Multi-personality disorder.
    He also suffers from multi parrot disorder.
    Just look at him and listen to him .
    You don’t need to be a shrink to see this.
    . I pity the man and pity the brain damaged
    individuals who think he is some sort of god.

    must be some overdosis

  50. prem bubbie says:

    Thanks Dilruba, we need to hear more stories like these. I appreciate your sharing.

  51. prem bubbie says:

    Thank You also , Keerti.

  52. prem bubbie says:

    Keerti, You were only an editor of a newspaper. Look how long it took Shiva to get inside the inner circle of power!!! And he was the personal guard of Osho. It’s not bullshit , I was told by those who participated, who had NO grudge against Osho, in fact they so much wanted to get closer to him. Face it, though you were close, much was kept from you. Most sannyasins could not understand if they were told, and as for me, I understand and accept, as I have stated many times in my previous posts. You maybe another who is still in denial, just like a parent who can’t accept their son being able to do something illegal!! It’s 30 plus years, time to grow up, time to leave Fantasyland!!! No matter how much one “meditates”, if one can’t acknowledge the truth then meditation wouldn’t be of help. With all love

  53. prem bubbie says:

    So many still can’t acknowledge, so many so afraid,. One hand most agree sannyasins are pretty screwed up people. Yet, when confronted with legitimate examples, you all crawl back into your shells, faster than a frightened turtle!!! Again, no wonder why sannyasins keep chasing their tails!!!!!

  54. prem bubbie says:

    Oshobob, “osho people are no angels…” Yes, but osho people THINK they are angels and try to show to the outside world that they are.. It’s also called arrogance. Stop the pretend, osho people!!! Deny one’s humanity, which is BOTH positive and negative, and pretend to be only positive, and all the madness starts to flow. Those who deny the truth will get lies in return. Denial is like a chain, it wouldn’t let you fly. Forget about becoming “enlightened”. A person might think they’re spiritual or on the path or enlightened, but they’re only deluding themselves and others who are stupid enough to go along. Didn’t Sheela think she was an angel and superior to those on the outside world?

  55. prem bubbie says:

    When osho first came to the states, many foreign sannyasins followed. Many Ma’s came to New York… the only work that they could get was working in a titty bar or as a prostitute. Fact!!! The begging bowl was always out from Sheela and her “castle” gang. The more $$$ you gave the more “in” you were with them. It was definitely a “peer” pressure with regarding sannyas and especially if you wanted to live on the ranch. Money talked, doing “favors” for the top clique, like marrying for residency was another. The cliques exists today. The rich clique, for example, in the bay area in the states. You have the Mill Valley,rich clique and then the rest. This is true with the “outside” world too. But with the sannyas community that truth is ignored and the illusion that there is a great big oneness of a community is lived. Jayesh and company are a great example, too. Yes, the sannyas community is still living an illusion, with no great desire to change, with the BS flowing it’s a genuine miracle there is a sannyas “community”a t all.

  56. meera says:

    so bubbie
    what do you think of yourself?!
    that you are a good and honest character?

    you can judge others ..because you are the good guy…
    do you think you are an angel.?. HAHAHAHAHAHAA
    or what do you believe about yourself??????
    a spiritul a person….
    or is there anything wrong in thinking one is a spiritual person??!!!
    .. then one SHOULD
    accordingto you
    NOT think that he/ she is spirital or enlightened ..
    because thats very wrong..
    isn´t it ?! prem bubbie.. HAHAHAHAHA

    you are not in the least mad… hahahahahaa

  57. shantam prem says:

    Prem Bubbie,
    Now i am becoming curious to see your face.
    Do you have any photo at some social networking site?

    And cann´t you find some new characters after Sheela?
    It is easier to kick the dead and out.

    World has moved much beyond Sheela, Pop the Pollack or Ronand Regan. So many new characters are occupiying the world stage.
    Look around may be you can find some Swami who has the similar traits as the forgotten Ma.

  58. shantam prem says:

    Without doubt and denial, When Osho himself can get sick because of any virus, Living organisations can also fall sick or go into the seasonal cycles.

    Bubbie dear, do you have any other exposure to any other spiritual or semi spiritual organisation, may be comparison of qualities and puffed egos will become easier, after all your country has uncountable groups, sects and sub sects.

    If we as a group simply accept rather than denial that something has gone wrong, it can be fixed in a certain time frame. it is not the contents problem but the packaging, something like milk is being packed in the motor oil plastic.

    When the world is going towards the collective leadership, our main organisation is being run, i cannot figure out, is it like mom or dad´s corner shop or it is a private limited company or the working model is democratic or dictatorship, whether 17, Koregaon Park is registered as charitable trust or the religious organisation.

  59. frank says:

    nothing is wrong.

    “neo-sannyas”
    was(is it still?)
    the return of the prodigals` son,
    who was all the more full in life ,loved more and was all the more loved for his waywardness….

    the self-proclaimed “rascal guru”
    must have disciples who embrace rascality!
    at the very least.

    the man who says
    “i am ghengis khan and lao tse both”
    you complain when the villains arrive?
    say: “oh,what bad fortune?

    a bunch of people who escape from a temple with the help of a master thief , when they are caught
    say:
    “oh,we are just going to the temple,holy we are”

    get real.

  60. frank says:

    take the sin
    out of sannyasin
    at your own peril!

  61. Anand says:

    Good you can see it, Prem Bubbie, because I am just around your corner….

  62. “Keerti, You were only an editor of a newspaper. Look how long it took Shiva to get inside the inner circle of power!!!”
    Yes, I was only an editor, but we always wore many caps. I was interacting with Laxmi on daily basis. Sheela was going to see movies with me in Pune One.
    I interacted with Neelam Jayesh Amrito and so many others almost daily, though Jayesh was only available during weekends. I attended the Presidium meetings.
    So i could say that I could see what was happening easily. After all as a spokeperson, I had to issue News Releases every week or some times daily.
    I am not boasting–it is a fact.

  63. prem bubbie says:

    So Keerti, Do you think a ma force to kick back money from her prostitution is going to tell YOU, of all people? You’re anews paper editor, that ma would think you probably print that allegation! That’s the last thing she’d want. Secrecy ruled, what part of, how to get away with crimes don’t you understand. The most important thing for a sannyasin was to get as close to osho as possible and for the greatest length of time!!! Ratting out the top dogs meant an instant excommunication, just as Shiva that for a start. I’m tickled pink that you socialized with those characters, they were the inner circle!! You were not!!! Sorry to pop your ego , but that’s the truth!! A very small clique knew everything and they were women, who did not share their secrets. Did sheela whisper to you during the movies, her plans for america? They bribes that were paid to Indian officials? The latest drug deal? Well? If you knew and did nothing you’re as dirty as them!!! Take down that halo of yours!!!! Stop pretending!!! I trust you smooched it up a bit with sheela during the movies!!! Kiss and Tell!!

  64. prem bubbie says:

    Just because a person works with someone doesn’t mean you’re joined at the hip. Living in a dream world!!!

  65. prem bubbie says:

    So Meera… What do I think of myself? Can’t you read? It’s obvious to those living in reality, oh, you’re on that ship called fantasy land. keep on dancin, baby!!

  66. prem bubbie says:

    Anand, “Good you can see it…” See what? I see nothing, know nothing , speak nothing… now that’s being, “in the here and now!” !!

  67. prem bubbie says:

    Shantam Prem: If you see my face your computer screen will crack!!! Facebook is a joke, so is this site, I’d rather do my insanity face to face. That is the negative about computers, it’s lead to less and less personal interactions. It’s easy to rant or rave by computer or phone for that matter, and much more difficult to have the courage to share one’s energy whether positive or negative up close and personal. The only real benefit is that it’s cheap, don’t have to pay thousands to fly anywhere. MAYBE, one day you’ll see my face(carry a vomit bag just in case) See ya later cutie!!

  68. shantam prem says:

    It seems Bubbie, you have taken the lead role opposite Meera.
    Condemn evreything and everybody. Where ever you live, Chicago or New York or a small village, are there people to do personal interactions.

    May be for one beautiful day, put your here say information aside, If you are unable to appreciate that Keerti is may be one of the closest disiciple who is sharing his views publically, may be you can ask Hasya or the Sidona people to share their appreciation or the grudges.

    Photo thing you have made clear, the second part of the same post i repeat again-
    Do you have any other exposure to any other spiritual or semi spiritual organisation, may be comparison of qualities and puffed egos will become easier, after all your country has uncountable groups, sects and sub sects.

  69. Kranti says:

    ” Oshobob, “osho people are no angels…” Yes, but osho people THINK they are angels and try to show to the outside world that they are.. It’s also called arrogance. Stop the pretend, osho people!!!

    I totally agree with Prem Bubbie on this point.. I am not like you guys. I came to Osho after He left the body and i certainly missed being with Him and all the celebrartion..

    I am agreeing with Prem Bubbie that sannyasins are not in anyway special..

    But I also want to point out that sannyasins are the most natural and freer people compared to any other category.. All other so called religious / spiritual groups

    But in the effot to be part of FREER community and they had often slipped and gone in all directions which is understandable.. After all Osho asked us not to afraid of going astray or committing mistakes..

    As long as a Osho sannyasins picks himself up and dusts himself and see life rather than keep indulging , He is in far better positon to see life beautifully than any other categiry people… What Osho has done is deprogramming..So obiviously Osho people would have gone astray easily

    In my own life i am the most indiciplined and ill organised in my family.. Butr i dont regret..

    To me the ability of the sannyasins to go astray and then picks himself up is the most the beautiful things that Osho has given.. The problem comes when we refuse to accept that and try to glorify us as angels as Prem Bubbie points out

  70. shantam prem says:

    Beautifully expressed Kranti.
    without doubt every individual who has opened their heart for Osho has gained immensely, there is nothing wrong if ego gains a sense of superiority, a kind of levitation.
    If as a group we are able to dust the carpet and the cupboards, it will be a remarkable gift for the further evolution.
    When Master is not in the body; transparency, accountability and honesty of purpose and collective responsibility is very much called for.
    because these things are lacking, so the world around us is moving faster and with rhythm.
    Sometimes Buffaloes on the roads seems more in tune with, than an expansive car, whose tyre has gone punctured.

  71. “I trust you smooched it up a bit with sheela during the movies!!! Kiss and Tell!!”

    Man, you should not trust–doubt is more appropriate for you. As I have been, I have had respect for whoever was the secretarythen –Laxmi, Sheela or Neelam. And Osho had chosen them for a certain function. No smooching of these Ma’s even in my dreams.

  72. Kranti says:

    ” No smooching of these Ma’s even in my dreams ”

    Were they that bad looking Sw Keerthi?

  73. frank says:

    come on tony,
    here`s a test for your oshology general knowledge.
    what were the names of the films keerti and sheela went to see together?

    1.”the millionairess”. the classic adventures of the raciest women in the world and her wild and wonderful ways and her relationship with an indian fellow played by peter sellars(goodness gracious me)

    2. “coolie”. red-clad amitabh bacchan takes on the caste system of 70s india

    3.” the remains of the day” the story of a faithful manservant and his unrequited love for his mistress.

    4. “carry on up the khyber”

    ?

  74. Kranti says:

    Option 1 for me although you didnt include me in the contest.. ( I know you also meant that..rest you added for numbers sake .. )

  75. Dilruba says:

    one more option
    5.” The Princess & the Frog ”
    .

  76. shantam prem says:

    On the surface the west may look agnostic and secular but the heart of the west and centuries old roots, Jesus still call the shots. The fascination never cease to exist.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1230124/Good-Lord-Its-Jesus-diet-How-people-turning-religion-help-lose-weight.html

    And Osho…

    i am sure deep down even the closest one cannot think Him on the same level as Jesus, otherwise they would not have dared to bring Him to the level of self help, pop psyhcologist, a spiritual teacher.
    It is exactly the way, Osho´s blood relatives, many of them became sannyasins may not put Him on the same level as Mahavira.

  77. shantam prem says:

    “No smooching of these Ma’s even in my dreams…”

    When it is about Sheela, Laxmi or Neelam; Nirvano must be the unimaginable taboo, for us devotional Indians.
    Though i believe her western boy friends were treating her like any other woman, may be a nice Barbie without feminine emotions.

    A picture on her life….??

    Forgive me Master… this Indian devotee of yours is thinking as if he is from North America!

  78. Dilruba says:

    Mahesh Bhat .. are you listening ..

    Sorry for mentioning Mahesh Bhat here .. Please dont forgive me Master !

  79. Kranti says:

    Mahesh Bhatt was thrown out from resort long time back.. He had mad company in UG

  80. frank says:

    shantam,
    christianity does have an annoying habit of coming back from the dead,like the founder,i suppose.

    but they still provide entertainment value,occasionally.
    there was a headline in the same paper the other day:

    ” `god knows what will happen to anglicanism`,says archbishop of canterbury”

  81. Kranti says:

    Is Jesus Diet a trademark?

  82. prem bubbie says:

    You crack me up frank!!!!

  83. frank says:

    jesus himself was on the
    all-you-can-eat loaves and fishes and the endless supply of wine to swill it down diet.

    in that sense the uk is still quite christian.

  84. prem bubbie says:

    Keerti, My trust for sannyasins – and the organization, , vanished in 1986. Trust is earned now. I do trust the “great consciousness. If I had not complete trust in osho, I would not have taken sannyas, if I had not complete trust in sannyasins and the orginazation back then, I would have not taken sannyas, move to an ashram, then move to the ranch and do the things I had done. I support and understand how money needed to be raised. This is a capitalistic world you know the most important thing in this world is for a person to find his/her true nature. I’ve posted my views on this on past threads. It takes lots and lots of money to do what osho had set out to do. His experiment, in a dire and dangerous point inhuman evolution, needs a daring rescue plan, he tried to show as many as possible how to “discover” their true nature, not just one or two , he did his best, needed the cash to carry it out. With sannyasins, except for a few, look out!!! You turn one way, some scam is occurring, turn the other, someone’s busted for smuggling, turn the other, someone makes up a story and makes himself king of the castle. Taking advantage of sannyasins gullibility. Just as most martial arts schools train their students to be aware of ALL that’s around you. So should sannyasins do the same. Including being aware of other sannyasins, something to your own admission you did not do with the gang in pune. Back to square one.

  85. frank says:

    could well have been “bandit queen” of course.

    but,i vote for “carry on up the khyber” with sid james as bhangdit din,myself

  86. Dilruba says:

    Prem Bubbie .. wonderful sharing .. Dear

  87. shantam prem says:

    Prem bubbie, please write more about your days at Rajneeshpuram and your vanished trust in the sannyasins.
    The year you were going out, i was going in.
    it is first time in 21 years, that i am writing and blowing my views about the naked truth, about the elephant who have two sets of teeth, one for chewing and one for showing.
    The contribution of Osho and the trust imposed by the ordinary seekers in Him is legendary, as these dare devils went to him, when collective perception of Him was just negative.
    People who dared, found the almonds hidden behind the hard shell.
    But the way, few people, the closest ones started bullying the others, and instead of a master piece organisation they created their own version, i think to remain silent in this situation is counter productive to one´s own journey.
    Osho was not just selling meditation but was continuously pointing towards the draw backs of the other organisations and their power struggle etc.
    So it is a quite an anti climax feeling to see the conflict management of our people at the helm.
    Yet the words like sharing compassion, love, co dependency and rebellious we can write without any spelling mistake. Thousands of times per month we use these words, unfortunately only linguistically.

  88. frank says:

    bubbie`s right.
    sannyasins are a bunch of dodge-pots.
    i dont think anyone would argue with that.

  89. garimo says:

    I think I don’t mind being a dodgepot.

    once I googled it to know what it meant…

    dodgepot n. originally, a race horse that is heavily favored but has mixed success; (hence) a quirky or eccentric person.

  90. frank says:

    exactly garimo
    hahahaha
    story of my life…..

  91. oshobob says:

    if you can’t get exactly the full truth on a subject at sannyasnews, at least you can pick up some valuable vocabulary expanders — that’s a plus….

    like this word “dodgy”. In America this word is not used — I have never heard it. It is a British word that has many shades of meaning i’ve learned. frank uses it, so i figure it must be worthwhile…

    In the States, we have the Dodge car company, and you can ‘dodge a bullet’, or an IRS audit, but that’s about it…(oh, I forgot, there is also the LA Dodgers baseball team, who used to be the Brooklyn Dodgers before they moved West, maybe Dhanyam can tell us why they moved, possibly “dodging” something in the Big Apple, not sure on that story…)

    in the Osho world, there was a sannyasin kid nicknamed “Dodger” (and by the looks of his photo, he looked like one), he just “died” recently, his father was a sannyasin who also “died” a few years back, and his mother was none other than the Ma who poked Doc Amrito in the ass at the Ranch with a hypo needle filled with some deadly serum…Shanti B, aka Jane Stork. Let off the hook in the Oregon courtroom just recently. Now that’s a strange story–and a strange family too.

    Maybe Prof. Anthony has some research insights on that lollapalooza of a dramatic episode…hopefully the dodgy professor will not dodge the story of the Dodger and his somewhat dodgy family…

  92. Kranti says:

    Question for you guys..Osho did all the deprogramming and allowed people to live on their ..searching and groping.. In such a scenario people are bound to go astray in as many ways as possible ..

    Suddenly what is the problem with labelling sannyasins as dodgers , this and that..

    In what other field , group , category of people we find great people who are direct decendents of god and who just cant go astray..

    I have a feeling we are doing lot of self beating here

  93. Kranti says:

    The kind of people Osho gathered around him and the way he asked them to go out do their own stuff would have made people committ so many mistakes.. But is that not part of the groping and seraching? I will rather live as a Osho sannyasin and go astray rather living as a Hindu Brahmin or any other religious hypocrite in any life…I will take it..

  94. garimo says:

    > I will rather live as a Osho sannyasin and go astray rather living as a Hindu Brahmin or any other religious hypocrite in any life…I will take it..

    What going astray? Did someone give you the road map? I didn’t get one.
    For me, this it it… and what lead to me getting here is the past. I didn’t go astray, this is where I am, and unlike prem bubbie I don’t have the notion things are supposed to be different that they are or were. This is it, and maybe I’m too lazy to get all wound up that things aren’t any of the other possibilities my mind can imagine, and mostly I okay with this being it…

  95. oshobob says:

    well, Kranti, if you’re interested in the “groping and searching” sannyasins, you need not go any further than the hot-shot macho therapists, who are exploring their own self-made horizontal paradigm — in fact, that could be a good title for a group at the Multiversity –”Groping and Searching — The Path to Liberation”.

    Maybe even Headley would book it…

  96. garimo says:

    “different that ” = different than

  97. Anand says:

    That truth is not only true for Osho bubbie in 1986. Most US sannyasins never recovered from the demise of the ranch and still are stuck at that point – the death of all their dreams.

    It is sad in a way, such a great country and hardly any visible presence of Osho. At least compared to places like Italy.
    Most US sannyasins from that era got disappointed and stuck there. They missed out on Pune 2 and the development between 1990 and now.

  98. garimo says:

    >They missed out on Pune 2 and the development between 1990 and now.
    Anand,
    I’m kind of looking at things like Pune 3 = 1990-’91
    and many not as connected to the place as before.
    But “missing development” isn’t something I’d put much weight behind.
    -g

  99. oshobob says:

    and talking about “going astray”….

    I once knew a Japanese Ma years ago who knew a little English, and she told me everytime she listened to Osho talking about “going astray”, she thought he was saying “going ash-tray”!

    Now that many Osho old-timers are pushing closer to the crematorium experience, that phrase may soon turn into a sannyas cliche — “Going ash-tray!”

  100. shantam prem says:

    Anand,
    At least, the death of all the dreams at the ranch were because of the direct confrontation with the super power.
    After the Pune 2, the casualties are because of self injected bullet wounds.
    Here we can not blame the outer hostile circumstances, the rigid competition with the established brands.
    it is what Frank calls dodge pot-

    “Brazil(sannyasins) are great going forward, terrific, but their goalkeeper( Osho management) is an absolute dodge pot.”
    A real dodge pot of a race, with loads in with a shout on bare form, but not a lot on the ground conditions.

    (Google search)

  101. garimo says:

    A crackpot is one step further than the dodgepot.
    Seems there could be a fine line between the two.

    Main Entry: crack·pot
    Pronunciation: \ˈkrak-ˌpät\
    Function: noun
    Date: 1883
    : one given to eccentric or lunatic notions

  102. Anand says:

    You are right Garimo, wrong choice of words.

  103. frank says:

    oshobob,
    its not just me using the word “dodgy”
    seems to me,here in the uk,the people,after a few centuries of self-delusion about their “sense of reason and fair play” finally woke up one morning to the realisation of how extremely dodgy they actually are.
    now pretty much everything is dodgy:

    politicians speak of dodgy dossiers
    footballers make dodgy tackles
    celebrities have dodgy boob jobs
    people sport dodgy haircuts
    kids take dodgy drugs
    obese people eat dodgy food
    the weather is really dodgy
    and there`s more dodgy dodgepots dodging around the place than you can wave a stick at….

    so we obviously need help from dodgy gurus………

  104. frank says:

    garimo,
    strangely enough,and slightly contrary to dictionary definitions,”dodgepot” often is used in a more perjorative way than “crackpot.”

    this is due,i would say to “dodgepot” being used as a slight euphemism for the word “tosspot” which is certainly more insulting.implying as it does,the presence of a “tosser”

    the word “tosser” is a useful one to know in spiritual circles,too,
    for example,i could say with reference to our own jackass news,that people who toss osho quotes around willy-nilly rather than speak for themselves are simply “tossers”

  105. Dhanyam says:

    OshoBob,

    You are not quite up to date on the Dodger family. Jane Stork (“Dodger’s” mother) has written a book in Australia, titled “Breaking the Spell,” and has been interviewed on Australian TV. You might be able to find interviews on YouTube, if you are interested.

    Anand,

    You make some sweeping, dismissive statements about the US centers and sannyasins. I have been running Osho Viha since 1986 and don’t agree with your conclusions at all.

  106. oshobob says:

    Dhanyam, I’m as up to date as I can be — through my admittedly limited access to the full story — on Mrs. Dodger and her shifting families and molten allegiances. I viewed the YouTube video clips when they came out months ago, of her TV interview in Australia. I followed the Oregon wrap-up to the case in 2006 with whatever info was presented by the media and the US Dept. of Justice. I followed the Sannyasnews thread on it. Her book does not seem to be available in the States (I notice you do not carry it at Viha). But by the full title:

    Breaking the Spell: My Life as a Rajneeshee and the Long Journey Back to Freedom…

    I don’t know who the projected audience might be, except the anti-Osho crowd (if any are even still around), anti-cultists, disgruntled sannyasins, or someone like me that tries to stays in touch with all the movement in the Osho swirl…

    But, I do find it to be a highly dubious story in toto, one could even say a quite dodgy pastiche of patchwork parodies…

  107. Anand says:

    Dhanyam: then why is your magazine shrinking in pages so rapidly? It seems half of size of what it used to be.

    For a country like the US there are only small activities in Marin (see Dhanyam/ no center), Sedona (limited access/ academy) and Boulder (small but dedicated center). Imagine the potential…..

  108. prem bubbie says:

    Garimo, i never said things should have been different, it is as it is. But how about practicing what we read from osho even a little bit?, how about using the noggin in a alert way. Why continue repeating the same dreaded mistakes over and over until it kills us? From pune 1 to the ranch to pune 2 , to the resort, what next, the stupidity is right in front of us and we decide to ignore it. You can’t move forward if you deny responsibility and learning from one’s actions. As for getting on keerti’s case… he my have been close to osho, ran a newspaper, big fucking deal!!!! He’s fair game just as any other person in charge . No blame but responsibility is responsibility….. take it or go back to living in a cave. No more of being in awe of those in charge.

  109. prem bubbie says:

    What development Anand? Quit fooling yourself

  110. ” No smooching of these Ma’s even in my dreams ”

    Were they that bad looking Sw Keerthi?

    No, beloved Kranti, nobody around Osho was bad looking. Even if there was someone bad looking wud transform inti good looking–being in the presence of such a master as Osho wud make people glow.
    But thinking of smooching…or having an affair…was not occuring in my mind. Adoration, apreciation, respect for what the Master has chosen them, was there.

  111. prem bubbie says:

    about 16 years ago I met a young man visiting the bio-dynamic farming community where I was living and working. He actually sought me out because he heard I lived at the ranch. He just finished working the bill clinton presidential campaign,1992, he was on the campaign staff. He told me the reason why Osho was deported and not put on trial for his alleged crimes during the ranch days was because the Reagan people wanted to conceal the fact that a top reagan official, jean Kirkpatrick, then the U.S. ambassador to the U. N. son was a sannyasin living at the ranch, his name was Sw. Prem Prenama, he later became lama Traktung Rinpoche. The deal was Osho could leave with pleading guilty but no mention to the press that Prenama was Kirkpatrick’s son and to suppress all knowledge of it within the sannyas community. The reagan people could not risk negative fall out if it were to come out, especially with the conservative and fanatical christians many of whom occupied powerful posts in the reagan white house. The young man went on to say that they planned on using this information against Clinton’s opponent, George Bush Sr. who was vice president during the ranch days. Straight from the horses mouth, no rumor. I don’t know if anyone heard this before, but now after all these years, I’m telling it. I did share it, 6 or 7 years ago with a couple of close sannyas friends that I have in Seattle.

  112. prem bubbie says:

    That information was never used against Bush Sr. The clinton people decided against it.

  113. prem bubbie says:

    One can have innocent fun while smooching!!!

  114. garimo says:

    Prem bubbie,

    >Garimo, i never said things should have been different, it is as it is.

    When I read your many pronouncements of who and what is stupid… my mind translates it to hearing you saying you are frustrated and unable to accept that your notions of how things are supposed to be are not being met by others. It’s just how my mind is working. It may not be your intention to be observed that way, but I’m not at all getting that you are at peace with the way things may be.

    > As for getting on keerti’s case… he my have been close to osho, ran a >newspaper, big fucking deal!!!! He’s fair game just as any other person in >charge . No blame but responsibility is responsibility….. take it or go back to >living in a cave. No more of being in awe of those in charge.

    As for me…
    When the entity SannyasNews posted:
    >sannyasnews // Nov 21, 2009 at 1:32 pm
    >Keerti and Dhanyam appear to have made contributions here, and >sannyasnews is most grateful to them.

    I thought – Yuck! how did Keerti & Dhanyam become so deserving of special kisses to their asses? My ass wants kissing too.
    And at the same time… they are not targets or receptacles for scorn or other bullshit because our needs for recognition or consideration are not being met.

    I agree no need for special ass kisses… but just as much, I see no need for kicking asses either.

    -g

  115. garimo says:

    or… kissing and kicking in equal portions all around.
    I value what’s fair.

  116. prem bubbie says:

    as the old cliche goes: nothing in life is fair. And I am frustrated, I think I learned that – those who scream the loudest get the attention. Maybe screaming about the past that so many have forgotten and are in denial; those currently inquiring about osho and sannyas and future” sannyasins” will take a closer look at what was missed, what mistakes were made, about being gullible, how even in an ashram or commune, people are used and abused, some may learn and not repeat those mistakes. If I can learn from some of my past mistakes and my own stupidity , even during the ranch years and after, someone as dumb as me, others maybe able to learn , for there must be smarter people than me in the sannyas community, yet so far as I can see , there aren’t many. I stayed away for many years except for my few sannyas and ex sannyas friends, I lived well without the sannyas community, in the past, maybe in the future too. who knows. And what’s wrong for each of us to give a good zen stick or an ass kick. You don’t have to be enlightened to do it. being complaisant sucks

  117. garimo says:

    >as the old cliche goes: nothing in life is fair

    Looks like *some* old cliches are half truths and lies.

    I know what fair feels like, and I know what unfair feels like.

    So I guess I’ve chosen to value the life enhancing feelings more than the restrictive ones, but from experience have gained the skills to accept either.

    I just heard Bette Midler say “Some people love a parade… I love a bidet”.

    People are different. Why should I want to beat anyone with a stick to make them more agreeable to me? My days for wanting that are past. I seem to have learned it doesn’t help. I’m okay with people being different.
    But then I’m just another dodgepot… :-) and liking it.

  118. Kranti says:

    Garimo

    “What going astray? Did someone give you the road map? I didn’t get one.”

    Even i dont have a road map..Thats what Osho is..

    It was a response from me on all the negative remarks that are said to have happened in sannyas community.. I meant if so many sannyasins screwed up things so be it.. To me it is esssentially a fall out of the Osho deprogramming.. You cant expect things to have gone in any other way then the way in which it actually went..

    Who knows in how may of the screw ups Osho himself was behind although i never try to link him to anything that happened around him.. Somehwre he even said Jesus himself arranged his crucification by entering into an agreement with Judas.. With that kind of Master anything was possible..

  119. Kranti says:

    Thought Frank has got a great point here

    ” delusion about their “sense of reason and fair play”

    I no longer belive i am playing a fair game and have great reason for doing things.. It seems to be the biggest self delusion one can have..

  120. Kranti says:

    Sw Keerthi

    ‘ But thinking of smooching…or having an affair…was not occuring in my mind. Adoration, apreciation, respect for what the Master has chosen them, was there ”

    You sound too good to be true.. In a life around Osho, in the 1970s , there was No smooching or having an affair ? My god.. How was that supposed to be possible?

  121. shantam prem says:

    “No, beloved Kranti, nobody around Osho was bad looking. Even if there was someone bad looking wud transform into good looking–being in the presence of such a master as Osho wud make people glow.”

    Osho´s physical presence was making people glow, and than he left the stage and the same people without the make up of Osho´s presence came back to their real faces.
    Dog´s tail again becomes crooked once it was out of the straight pipe, as the saying goes.

    In my feeling, the glow, the feel good factor was more prominent because of His creation, “The Buddhafield”

    His talks, contemporary meditation techniques, Buddhafield and His people…..the mixture of these four things could have sustained that Charisma for centuries to come and that would have been the most fitting homage to the man.

    Why it whither away so easily, just in a decades time?

    Because the beneficiaries of His physical presence forgot the day to day reality. The indulgence in high energy went also in the mind rather than the deeper layers of compassion, kindness and sharing.

    As Osho tells in the story of Sharda and Vivekananda. On the eve of his departure to America, Vivekananda goes to Sharda for her blessings. She was working in kitchen. When he asked for her blessings, she told him to fetch the knife for her from the other corner.
    She gave him her blessings because through the knife she tested his unconscious, as he kept the sharp metal in his hand and gave to her the wooden part.
    (thanks heavens, Vivekananda has not learnt this in some kind of Swiss finishing school, from where came most of Osho´s elites.

  122. shantam prem says:

    World will not become poor when we take Tennis away from Roger federar or Cricket from Sachin.
    Without Liz Hurley or Heidi klum net will be still full with amazing female creatures.
    Without Bill Gates.. someone else would have developed Windows.
    But Buddhafield…
    the most contemporary, one of its kind monastery with open door policy (come for a day or a year) with inner and outer health and swingers club facilities !!!!

    To turn Osho´s most amazing and one of its kind institution into the resort, what it represents now; happy are those who did not get the taste of it, because they will never miss this, but CRUDE are the people who took the complete benefit of it and than in the end turned the aeroplane into a tractor, for sure it is less dangerous and easier to operate.

  123. Anand says:

    Funny Shantam Prem, I still spend a lot of money every year to experience the ‘Buddhafield’. For me it is still there in the silence of the Evening Meditation and in the song of the bamboos.
    Even if the outer is more resort like, the inner silence can be more easily accessed there the any place else for me.

    So maybe something shifted for you inside, no surprise living in Germany. But do not speak for all and in general terms.

    Same for Bubbie in his self imposed exile in Seattle, growing a long beard and sharing his ‘secrets’ for the first time.

    I am looking forwards to hit the plane ride to Pune and sit down in the samadhi, with or without the ashes.

  124. frank says:

    hi dhyanam,
    sorry to hear that your paper is falling on hard times.
    i would like to take this opportunity to offer you my services as a contributor to your worthy organ…..
    have you ever thought of upping your readership by introducing a new enlightentertainment section?

  125. Shanti says:

    this really seems to be the meeting of the pessimists.
    As Anand, i also go there practically every year and this sound buddhafield is still there.
    the photos are gone , but not the spirit. the dancing, the laughter, the meetings and the silence is there. Bubbie, shantam, abhay, keeti, have not crossed the gates lately… I have.
    osho`s place is there… thriving.
    You make it sound like it is gone because two people took some pictures away, and a couple of devotional old songs are not sang.
    was osho buddhafield that weak?

    The buddhafield is there… as before
    and the banning, as before…
    and the dirty games as before…
    and the ego trips as before…
    come on… it is all sannyas trademarK!!

    … but so in is the celebration, the laughter and the meeting with friends, and of course meditation in the samadhi..
    and i have never heard that the ashes are gone… except from the people who say they were removed, the ashram was sold, etc, etc. the ones who do not go there.

  126. Anand says:

    Thanks Shanti, you spoke my heart.

  127. Kranti says:

    ” I am looking forwards to hit the plane ride to Pune and sit down in the samadhi, with or without the ashes.”

    Travel date confirmed Anand?

    Thanks Shanti..Beautiful post

  128. meera says:

    the buddha field was always there..
    what is the big deal?!

    ´ the same street and the same trees
    and when a buddha walks
    he walks in paradies
    and when you walk
    you walk in hell ´

    Osho

  129. Dhanyam says:

    Anand,

    I still don’t agree with what you say about Osho centers/activities in the US. If you want to email your mailing name and address to me at oshoviha@oshoviha.org. I will send you some details.

  130. Dhanyam says:

    Frank,

    Thanks for your postings and suggestions, which I will bring up at our next meeting. Are you a writer or interested in subscribing?

  131. prem bubbie says:

    please read in today’s yahoo news– “200,000 animals to be sacrificed at nepal festival”.. Those insane people really need a buddhafield…. talk about madness!!!!

  132. Anthony thompson says:

    In the spirit of inviting reflections i post the following question:

    What constitutes a Buddhafield?
    what is it what makes this phenomenon called buddhafield?

    When osho was around it was obvious that it was himself.

    But now that he is not around.
    what is it?

    The pictures?
    the celebrations?
    the ashes?
    the sannyas ceremonies?
    The devotional songs?
    The podium pagoda?
    the meditators?
    the mala?
    The name ( commune v/s resort)?
    The type of administration?
    This ” I do not what” that is kind of missing?
    The meditation energy?
    the samadhi?
    The celebrative energy?
    what is it?

    Lets discuss. Because I think this is an important issue that we take for granted, what we mean when we say the buddhafield is gone and when we say it is still here.

  133. oshobob says:

    well, bubbie, that is the first time I’ve heard your story of Reagan’s UN Ambassador’s son being a sannyasin, and the behind the scenes deal brokered concerning Osho’s departure from the US.

    A one-off rogue episode, and (if true), a very unique wrinkle in the Ranch saga. It seems much of what happens around Osho is not exactly what it appears to be at first blush. What next, I wonder…

  134. Anthony thompson says:

    Osho bob. what bubbie say it is not true. Everybody knew about the involvement of the kid of jean Kirkpatrick, actually it was used as advertising by the ranch, the same with the daughter of the senator Ryan killed in Jonestown.
    It was no big secret… it was even in the news.

  135. Shanti says:

    Good question anthony and I will answer you straight away.
    What makes a buddhafield is, first the energy of the master. when the master leaves the body it is the energy of hundreds of people meditating together.
    So the key to a buddhafield experience is meditation and thousands or hundreds of people putting their energy and priority in waking up and going in.
    The rest, pictures, songs, buildings, names are just ornaments

  136. oshobob says:

    so, Tony, I guess you and bubbie have different slants on that one –yes, the Congressman Ryan’s daughter connection was quite well publicized by the Ranch — I can remember it clearly. The Swama that became a Lama, I had never heard before….

    As to your question of what is a ‘Buddhafield’, I think only Osho could answer that one — he made up the word, I believe. I’ve never heard or seen it in any other context — it’s not in any Chinese Zen literture, where there were lots of living Buddhas milling about in The Middle Kingdom…

    According to Osho, I think the presence of a living Buddha was the main prerequisite, but like everything with this uncommon man, his concepts fit the environment he spoke them in, and were ultimately liquid plastic organisms that could re-morph at the drop of a hat — or even quicker.

  137. Kranti says:

    I think the presence of a Buddha and the energy of people meditating around him must be a Buddhafield..

    But I honestly dont know what happens to this energy after the buddha leaves the body if there is something called collective energy..

    You are right Anthony Osho glorified lot of things.. In every evening meeting he talks as though flowers shower on you.. I wait for it to happen and nothing happens..

    Someone who has experienced should tell…

    Andreas used to repeatedly say how Osho glorified the enlightenment thing itself..

    I can only see the physical realities , people dancing joyously and feeling silent inside type of things except for one off occasion where i did see light around someone who was dancing , kind of thing.. .To me it was not an illusion.. I was concious enough , alert enough…So I also would like to understand this better

  138. shantam prem says:

    Anand and Shanti,
    What you feel about Poona personally, i feel the same, all the poetry, all the lightness in the being.
    It does not matter, what the fuck, 17, Koregaon Park is called and who so ever sits at Krishna house, whether the ashes are there at the Samadhi or the Buddha Hall without the roof.
    One point is that so much roots we have grown in the last two three decades with His ashrams, that periphery does not matter. One can log in easily and also it is almost impossible to create so much comfort zone with some other place.
    I can bet that in this forum, This Shantam has spend the maximum evenings at white robe in Pyramid and without the traffic noise from outside, i used to take Fisherman´s mint with me to avoid snoring.
    Not because i was living in Pune at that time, now when i look back i wonder how i could spend half year away from my children in Europe and a glamorous mother of my younger child.
    So living in Germany has not distorted my perception but……

    In the evolutionary level, some time one needs to take the stand not for one`s own sake but for the others too.

    There are thousands others, our class mates, who felt offended by the changes imposed by the group of two three people. At least i will not forget their presence and their contribution, and i fully understand their hurt dignity, pride and ego.
    For me Ego is not a dirty world. Sometime i wonder about the people who have not even riped their ego and by here say are willing to drop it, it is as child like as a little girl playing with her dolls.
    When these ego less people, get in charge of some spiritual organisation, there create the mechanism of priesthood. Unfortunately, the second rug management people at Osho´s are such girls like people, wearing Mama´s heals and lipstick!
    There is a difference between change happening and changed imposed, as there is a difference between a rape, a fuck and making love.
    Without the precautions, chances of getting pregnant are the same in the above three instances.

    So in this time and age, when even in man woman relations decisions are taken jointly, what to cook today and where to go for holidays and a usual bed games also happen with mutual consent, how stupid it will be to presume that a vast majority of His people will simply accept the changes imposed without any proper communication.
    World as large including children are going in a democratic way. Even to bring new television in home one need to take into account, the voice of five years old.

    For me it is a matter of shame that the Master who was speaking against all the established religions and their management tactics, His disciples…. Yes Shanti… i agree if you don´t cancel our planned date in Pune.. our people are running the show with Meritocracy and Brilliancy.

  139. frank says:

    thanks dhyanam.

  140. shantam prem says:

    Kranti,
    may be you have also heard Him saying many times that God is not a fixed destination, we create that through our energy, theoretically the most purified energy in us takes this form.

    And also how with our intentions we can create a divine symbol just out of an ordinary stone and so on..

    Master of one person is just an ordinary being for others.
    The people living in the Bungalows around the Ashram, the owner of the adjacent hotel, even in their dreams they have not accepted Osho in the league of the masters.
    For example, i don´t think you will accept, “Mr. Sri “Ravi Shankar,fellow south indian and highly successful guru in his own right, reverend by other millions, as your master.

    This man with Shoe polished black hair and beard, and photo shop smile is still alive, you can get a living Master, but no.. you won´t.
    why?

    So it is not a question of finding alive or dead….through our heart beats we create the reality… when a seed disappeared in the earth can blossom in many forms, human heart can also have the same potential.

    I salute those for fathers and mothers of us, who just because of sheer belief, conquered the fears and sicknesses, wars and poverty, none of them have met or seen Jesus or Buddha, Rama or Krishna.

    And Osho- the man of similar caliber walked and talked and danced for decades with us…….fuckman… he has died. Bride has gone take the tent away, time to start the rational business with rational business school learnings.

    And i am sure for such people, hundred more alive masters will play no role other than the games of high energy.
    And high energy,, it can happen even at table dance joint.

  141. shantam prem says:

    Anthony,
    You have forrmulated the questionire “Buddhafield” from your teaching experience.
    I wish to sleep over with the points.

  142. prem bubbie says:

    So shanti, I’m disappointed regarding your pune/buddhafield post. Seems you’ve been jerking us around with how hot Barcelona is. What no buddhafield there? same with anand, what no buddhfield ?, all those 35 years and still don’t understand to create your own buddhafield, where you are/live. You sannyasins are the ultimate junkies or co -dependents. Anand you criticize Dhanyam and the U.S. yet you don’t live in a buddhafield yourself– you are full of shit. Still chasing the tail! The annual ritual- work your butt off for 6 months then go to pune for 6 months- most of which is spent in hospital, sick from some parasite. Maybe you guys are addicted to hallucinations brought on by high fever from infection!!!! Can’t get deathly ill in the U.S. or Europe so let’s go to India!!! What junkies you are!!! Can’t have the courage to have a buddhafield at home so you pretend there’s a paradise somewhere else and make up lame excuses to run away!! There’s anew sannyas web site called; “Sannyas losers- post your lies here!” I saw an ad for a new movie called “Prisoners of Pune” and “Get me the hell outta here, i can’t stand living anymore”!! So much, for “being in the moment”, Anand. I found out what your last is: Nostradamus. The man who couldn’t see 2 feet in front. I’d rather be with a unhappy person who is honest, than with a joyful person who is full of shit!!!

  143. prem bubbie says:

    Anthony, It is true to the best of my knowledge. The young man, named charlie lived in the community and came back to visit. Using information against a political rival is common practice and it would be vetted thoroughly by all parties including the media. So I believe it to be true, can’t get better info than that other than being there. Just common sense. How secrets are hidden even in “spiritual” communities. What are you, a bunch of boy scouts? My point all along.

  144. prem bubbie says:

    Are they going to feed anybody with those 200,000 animals during the nepal celebration? Oh I forgot, their all vegetarians!!!!

  145. Shanti says:

    Bubbie… do not get so mad and do not jump to conclusions. The fact that i enjoyed being in pune and that I love the energy of meditating with lots of people does not mean i do not enjoy my life where I am or that I do not have a my own meditative space. It is not about being a junkie, it is about upgrading.
    I love to dance alone in my house, but enjoy it more with my friends and the energy of being dancing with hundreds of people in incomparable.

  146. frank says:

    nepalis are not vegetarians.
    they eat plenty of buffalo steak,goats etc….

    btw.tibetans,just because they are buddhists,are not vegetarians either.
    the dalai lama himself is not a vegetarian.
    he tried it once for about 18 months but stopped after he contracted hepatitis.

    tibetans worked out the bad karma deal nicely though—they employed muslims as butchers.

    and “buddhafield” was an expression in tibetan mahayana buddhism.

    it means “sphere of influence of a buddha”
    doesn`t have to be geographical.
    can be non-local.
    you can pick up the broadcast from anywhere,just need to turn on the reciever……

    thats what they told me over a few glasses of chang.
    i suppose you have to give it a try at home to really find out…….

  147. Anand says:

    Bubbie: I am always amazed on your imaginations on people you do not know, always judging from your own little sphere. How do you know, that I do not licve in a buddhafield or have not created one myself. While we are discussing the term buddhafield.

    And that some people like Shanti or myself have the means and joy to live an over full life and out of this overflow also like to spend some precious time in Pune.

    Not everyone is stuck in Seattle and with all the bitterness of 1986.

    My life is blessed day by day and I enjoy it fully. But I really also enjoy your madness and the tirades of Meera. Saves money on People magazine.

    And thank you Dhanyam, no need.

  148. frank says:

    its like a tibetan bell or bowl.
    you dong it.
    the sound rings,then gets quieter and quieter and quieter ….
    you keep listening…till eventually it goes…… silent….
    the sound is measureable and local.
    the silence that is left is everywhere….

    that`s a buddhafield after the buddha dies……

  149. frank says:

    of course,a lot of people like anand and bubbie just like a good old ding-dong….

    the tibetan boozists told me that`s part of the cosmic set-up,too…..

  150. Kranti says:

    ” its like a tibetan bell or bowl.
    you dong it.
    the sound rings,then gets quieter and quieter and quieter ….
    you keep listening…till eventually it goes…… silent….
    the sound is measureable and local.
    the silence that is left is everywhere….”

    Never knew there is a poet inside you Frank

    Beautiful post..

  151. frank says:

    thanks kranti.

    also,further thoughts about
    “buddhafield”
    thats a word from the mumbojumbo language,which,i believe is the lingua franca at the resort.
    you need to be able to speak it otherwise your stay at the resort is not so comfortable.
    something like british or german tourists who learn a bit of basic spanish for their holidays

    “donde este las chicas locos?”
    “i need a date with a juicy ma to get my chakras energised”

    “los cervezas a benidorm estas moie bien,garcon”
    “the buddhafield feels realy strong at the resort,swami”

    “fish and chips,per favore”
    “the pasta al funghi is just amaaazing”

    “ole! forza barca!”
    “wow! o–sho!”

  152. shantam prem says:

    Kranti
    May be you have read my post of yesterday evening.
    As a curiosity sake, i wish to know, what stops you to accept Sri Sri or someone else as your Living Master.
    As this idea and therefore the wish to be with someone much higher than us, is so strong, and i am sure, you have this longing too.
    Therefore it will be nice to know your insights regarding this, as you or Shahriar in this forum have shared wonderful energy and understanding, even though none of you can boast about being with Living master.

  153. shantam prem says:

    What constitutes a Buddhafield?
    what is it what makes this phenomenon called buddhafield?

    When osho was around it was obvious that it was himself.

    But now that he is not around.
    what is it?

    The pictures?
    the celebrations?
    the ashes?
    the sannyas ceremonies?
    The devotional songs?
    The podium pagoda?
    the meditators?
    the mala?
    The name ( commune v/s resort)?
    The type of administration?
    This ” I do not what” that is kind of missing?
    The meditation energy?
    the samadhi?
    The celebrative energy?
    what is it?

    In the context of Osho Buddhafield at Pune,(even though this expression has been deleted)
    First i wish to add two more points in the above list, which was making it one of its kind Buddhafield.

    Involvement of “His people” on grass root level( He died and with time this expression too)
    Inter racial love affairs and relationships ( He called this My Zen Quan)

    As one sees, after His departure all the elements chosen by him were pruned from here and there.

    We must not forget that Osho himself has chosen the whole structure. I don´t think Buddha invited the best sculptures because Photography was not available during his time.
    Jesus on the cross, is also not the original face yet depicts the emotions perfectly. Jesus was not presiding over the Sunday Mass of Catholics and others.

    In my opinion, there was no need to wash out the foot steps of Osho and put aside the rituals developed during His time.
    Why Osho´s disciples and devotees accept the rituals created by one of them and that too on a joint proerty and value system developed by their common Master.
    When two people believe as if they are the joint successors in the world of mysticism and understanding, sure they have the right and power to claim that, but to get acceptability from their peers is quite difficult.

  154. frank says:

    shantam,
    did osho really choose the whole structure?
    according to dilruba`s friend,he had to start giving sannyas in contradiction of what he was saying before about gurus and sannyas etc…and was criticised for it,but,
    he had to do it.
    that is “choosing” a course of action,
    but is it “choosing the structure”?
    see what i mean?

    after watching woodstock the movie,he waited for the longhairs to arrive.
    did he know for sure what they would bring in their bags?
    he jumped into the white water rush of his crazy disciples like he jumped into the whirlpool rivers of his youth.
    he ducked and dived,probably did somersaults of pure joy.
    and “his people” turned far more dangerous than the crocodile infested monsoon swell of the narmada river!

    there is a field.
    there is a buddha.
    the buddha moves into the field
    and pitches his tent.
    he doesn`t know everything about the field.
    maybe he is not expecting a herd of power,sex and drug crazed buffaloes to stampede and help themself to the field……
    he just takes his fate……..
    amor fati….
    like everyone.

  155. Dilruba says:

    l feel .. probably for Osho .. it was a choice of choicelessness .. Frank .. this l feel .. l / all at one point do realize is true about me / all

  156. prem bubbie says:

    Upgrading? What the fuck… are you buying a new computer or are you full of joy and bliss? Bliss is bliss when you got you don’t NEED or SEEK to go anywhere!!!! Bad habits die hard!!!!

  157. prem bubbie says:

    Anand, time to put up or shut up… you talk a lot of shit dude

  158. prem bubbie says:

    Who’s suck in Seattle, moron? Shows how much you “know” about me… You guys keep proving my point every time you open your mouths… And a debate on what a buddhafield is… You are morons big time…. in another 35 years you’ll be debating the same crap over and over again, you just love that neurosis too much to give it up!!!

  159. Kranti says:

    Shantam

    ” As a curiosity sake, i wish to know, what stops you to accept Sri Sri or someone else as your Living Master “.

    I will never know Shantam.. i was dissatisfied with the religion i was born into and i was seraching when i was 20 plus.. Once I did sit infront of a sage called Vedatri Maharishi.. He was a simple and beautiful master.. he left the body just few years back.

    Even tried Sai Baba and his magics for a while.. was disillusioned ..

    Started listening to Osho when one of my friend turned Christian Priest gave me Osho casette on ‘ Creativity ‘ .. It was LOVE at first listening..After that that love for Osho and what He spoke grew more and more deeper..

    Although sometimes I do feel like i need the energy and guidance of a living master it has been Osho love all the way..

  160. prem bubbie says:

    You people are too chicken shit to create a buddhafield around yourselves.. so you run and “upgrade” your misery to pune “thinking” things will be much better now… the misery is gone… how well you decieved yourselves… I am honest will my own misery, I am too chicken shit to create my ownbuddhafield, my misery, my problem, “I” am the only answer, no one else…. Time for the truth from the rest of you…. Are you too chicken shit to be honest? So far as I see, you are!!!!

  161. prem bubbie says:

    Anand you fool everyone, you can’t hear your own madness, your bullshit, all those 35 years has trained you well to hide your misery,,/. Sorry, if you are expecting a medal for 35 years of avoidance with osho, you won’t get it from me, but life has already given you those medals you think you deserve. Another year in pune for you, only the stock market would have giving you a greater loss with your money.–fool!!!!

  162. frank says:

    shantam,
    inter-racial love affairs are the sign of a buddhafield.?
    check out the england football team,man.
    that`s a buddhafield on a football field….

  163. garimo says:

    Prem Bubbie!
    Young Man take your toxic misery and go sit in the corner. You can come out when you’re ready to play nice with the other inner kids.
    We can’t have you growing into being a bully now can we?

  164. meera says:

    THE MASTER IST THE BUDDHAFIELD

    ´ Gautam Buddha allowed ten thousand people always with him FOR THE SIMPLE REASON TO CREATE AN ENERGY FIELD. Somebody is a step ahead of you, somebody is two steps ahead of you, somebody is very close to the explosion. IF HE EXPLODES, he can create a chain reaction. Those who are just behind him may catch the fire.

    Hence in Zen it is called TRANSMISSION OF THE LAMP, or TRANSMISSION OF THE LIGHT.

    BUT NOBODY CAN ACT LIKE AN ENLIGHTENED MAN, it is not possible — because enlightenment has no particular form. Each enlightened being is so unique that you cannot imitate. And imitation takes you away from yourself. The more you imitate, the less is the possibility of your becoming enlightened.

    SO ONE HAS TO LEARN HOW TO BE WITH AN ENLIGHTENED MAN. It is not something to be learned, it is not something like a teaching or a discipline. It is a way of receptivity, of opening,
    of allowing the Master to enter in you.´

    OSHO :::MASTER OF THE IRRATIONAL

  165. frank says:

    and lo!
    the sky did open
    and many quotes did the tossers toss forth
    and fear struck into the hearts
    of the unenlightened jackasses
    there was wailing and gnashing of teeth
    and jahweh did speak forth
    with a german accent……..

  166. garimo says:

    >JOIN US

    Meera,
    Im wondering who manages that site? is it a Sw. Rajneesh site? what happens with privacy and use of email addresses collected?

    I didn’t join because there was no information other then wanting email addresses.

  167. frank says:

    ZE MASTER IZ DER BUDDHAFEELD

    ORDERS MUST BE OBEYED AT ALL TIMES.

  168. shantam prem says:

    frank // Nov 25, 2009 at 5:39 pm

    There are many points which make sense including the fate, the circumstances and the time, suddenly white cows thought journey to the east will turn them into Buffaloes.

    Still with trial and error and modification, Osho was continuously upgrading His workshop and more or less his misfit people were feeling contented and the competitors envious by the programmes offered.

    As it is said, forces at the market place decide, how good your product is.
    I was wondering today that man who called His sermons once as “Rajneesh Bible”, his people are expecting the books sale volume during the Xmas. When just in USA around one billion books will be purchased as X mas presents, there will be somewhere few thousand self help books by Osho too. Osho- who dared to create His birthday as celebration. No Diwali, No Xmas, no Mahavir Jayanti but one´s own birthday as public celebration.
    I try to imagine after giving the seductives to Osho, Doctor must have whispered, ” Master..is it not everyday a celebration!”

    And Frank, Open love affairs,mostly cross cultural, in the place of meditation is one of the other ten points TOGETHER which made 17, koregaon Park talk of the world and the potentials will again blossom, when the people will like to imitate the footsteps of Osho´s time rather than the time of Jayesh, whose contribution on a material level is immense. He was basically the savior send by the angels, without him, Osho might have travelled economy class back home in 1985.

  169. shantam prem says:

    Frank,
    As a Indian from small town, what is stand by comedy, i camto know only in Pune. As the best comedy is about one´s own paradigam, Is it right Anthony?
    The last house full comedy of those days has the punch line,
    ” We decide, you follow.”
    For sure, Inner circle felt offended and the wings of such shows were cut too.

  170. oshobob says:

    nice post about the buddhafield frank,
    unique from you, as there wasn’t a smidgen of a trace of sarcasm, cynicism, or skepticism in it.
    i may have to try that myself someday, just for a change of pace, if nothing else…
    refreshing.

  171. frank says:

    thanks,oshobob,
    i like silence.
    but i find it difficult to say anything about it.

    reminds me of a riddle.

    call my name and i am not there.
    who am i?

  172. frank says:

    silence

  173. Kranti says:

    Frank..Please come back..

    ” i like silence.
    but i find it difficult to say anything about it.”

    This is more beautiful.. think Frank is in a ‘ Zone ‘

  174. Shanti says:

    Prem bubbie. If you feel miserable and you are ok with it… then why come and join us here?… upgrading…

    See? this is what I am talking about… it is like masturbation, it is nice to do it yourself… but much nicer if someone else does it… or do it together.
    I do not know what happened to you to make you so hurt. I am sorry… it was not me.

    Actually I am kind of beginning to think that you got possessed by meera… you were much nicer before… sharp, but still nice to be around… now you are turning a bit too bitter and hurt for my taste…. but still we shared good moments in other threads… so I will not give you any advice… hope you do not give one to me either….

    By the way are you a amn or a woman… I always thought you were a girl… are you?

  175. frank says:

    shantam,
    did they really clip the wings of the comedians?

    then i could support sending in brian rajneesh with his zen clipping equipment to seek some kind of balance.

  176. shantam prem says:

    An hour ago i also thought to ask Prem bubbie something similar what Shanti has written but decided to watch this and let go.
    For me also i hope someone will give me a nice logical jerk so that i see a bit different than my line of action.
    Evolution of us human beings has to cover many stages more, same is about the spiritual bond between different polarities.
    Osho´s seeds who knows where they will get their fuller potentials, many many hearts have taken them in and few of us will definately try again and again to bring closer; Back water beaches of Kerala and fun N frolic of Ibiza…

    With this i wish not to write non stop in opposition to My senior citizens, Beloved Jayesh and Amrito…let they play their role as they wish and as beautiful and lovingly as possible.

    Sangham Sharnam Gacchami……..

  177. Anand says:

    Keerti, My trust for sannyasins – and the organization, , vanished in 1986.

    Bubbie (not much Prem there!): still hurting…!? Ouchh….

  178. Anand says:

    Bubbie: your words speak for themselves.
    No awareness and no education, pure gutter.

    You probably thought in 1986 to leave this sinking ship and now you cannot fathom, that the story continued….. It is a marathon..and not over yet.

    Shanti: language wise I would guess a man, probably a handyman from the ranch.

  179. prem bubbie says:

    Words of wisdom from Garimo and Anand. Garimo your toxic misery is located in the redwood forest, by your admission. you arethe one who lost trust in sannyasins a long time ago, or is it all a bullshit story? So shut up!!!! Full of shit again, the continuing bullshit saga of sannyasins!! Anand, if it were a choice between you or sw. rajneesh to take over the resort, i would choose rajneesh by a mile. He is someone can’t realize how he’s a mimic, a pretender, some brain damage has caused this, he thinks he fools people in being genuine, but people with eyes can clearly see his game. You on the other hand have 35 years to finesse your skills in being a poseur. Very clever, very suave, fancy sannyas b.s. lingo to help you slide your way into the hip sannyas world. You and Garimo’s response proved i hit a raw nerve with you both. The wimpy garimo or is it Sw. Milquetoast? On one day this shy, loving dude, the next day, the venomous tree sitter-trespassers beware!!! Anand there’s a tab of MDMA waiting for you in your utopian cave!!! The fascists have crawled out from under their rocks.

  180. prem bubbie says:

    A blind man can see none of you know what a buddhafield is!!! If you saw a dog chase its tail you would think it was in a buddhafield. Too much MDMA and pot smoking I guess, Being in a panic to get to pune is not being in a buddhafield. It might be all of you have done it for so long that you simply refuse to admit you’ve been chasing ghosts instead of being in paradise. BE HERE NOW!!! What a crock of shit coming from SUPPOSEDLY spiritual people. Hey, I know, why don’t you start a thread about how many people went to the resort last year!!!—-What a job of avoidance!!!! How about talking about more trivial crap? Who do you think you’re fooling? Everyone who posts here, almost!!!!

  181. prem bubbie says:

    SAnnyasins and catholics have a lot in common after all!!!

  182. prem bubbie says:

    Another lame post from Anand, any more wise words? your ego has been hurt. Puffed up like a powder pigeon, deflated like a flat tire!!!

  183. prem bubbie says:

    Oh what’s that smell ughh, it’s garimo and his stinky soap!!!

  184. garimo says:

    Prem Bubbie…
    Are you so totally humorless that you can’t handle your inner child being told to play nice with the other inner children?

    Dude… get a grip.

  185. prem bubbie says:

    Now who’s bringing up the ranch past? Man, you’re such a douche bag anand. “no awareness and no education” wrong again anand!!! Try for double jeopardy? “language wise, I would guess a man, probably a handyman from the ranch”. You obviously are stupid and weren’t at the ranch or pune 1, for osho put rich and educated people to wash clothes, scrub floors, clean toilets, work in the kitchen and yes, work as handymen and mechanics– you doofus!!!! I’m laughing so hard Anand, thanks for you clownish post!!! Shanti you read my posts; you seemed to forgot how to read other posts!!!

  186. prem bubbie says:

    I’ve got a grip but not of your soap!!!

  187. prem bubbie says:

    No rules here!!! This is the wild west, where men are men and women are…… uh….. men?

  188. prem bubbie says:

    And the gestapo tells everyone “how” to play….He is watching and will wash your mouth out with his soap if you don’t talk nice!!!!!

  189. prem bubbie says:

    The “little” sheela lurks inside of all of you….

  190. prem bubbie says:

    SHANTI< CAN YOU SEE THAT ALL OF YOU ARE MISERABLE BUT CAN”T ADMIT IT? NO COURAGE NO HONESTY JUST AVOIDANCE AND ARROGANCE

  191. garimo says:

    No need for you to worry about me prem bubbie,
    I’ll just play with my box of rocks and not
    interfere with you any more.
    You win… the play ground is all yours.
    I’ll be just fine.

  192. shantam prem says:

    Bubbie,
    while the words of you are written in an open forum and not in a private SMS , they don´t represent healthy attitude of the writer.
    To Attack some issue on prinicple grounds, to take different stand than the established ones, is one thing but to attack someone indiscriminately on personal level, is just Bubi like.
    (little boy der Bubi)

    Have you tried sometime, to stand before a church in your community with a sign board,” Grow up guys. 2000 years are enough”

  193. shantam prem says:

    “CAN YOU SEE THAT ALL OF YOU ARE MISERABLE BUT CAN”T ADMIT IT? NO COURAGE NO HONESTY JUST AVOIDANCE AND ARROGANCE”

    I would like to ask the writer of the above sentence, ” irrespective of your inclination, When was the last time you were invited by Ms. Pussy or her brother Mr. Pricker for a nice dinner?”

  194. meera says:

    Prem bubbie
    said : `SAnnyasins and catholics have a lot in common after all!!!`

    HAHAHAAA I AGREE

    gariomo are you fear-struck??!!! hahahahaaaaaa

    the nig site osho bliss
    is made by a very nice young Ma from Norway called
    ´beam of light´
    not by me or rajneesh…we are only members… hahahaha we won´t be able to capitalize on your e.mail address hahahah

    this site is really loving..
    I would almost call it a buddha-field

  195. garimo says:

    >>gariomo are you fear-struck??!!! hahahahaaaaaa

    >>the nig site osho bliss
    >>is made by a very nice young Ma from Norway called
    >>´beam of light´
    >>not by me or rajneesh…we are only members… hahahaha we won´t be able >>to capitalize on your e.mail address hahahah

    the link you posted showed pictures of 5 people and one of the was rajneesh, and all it asked for was email address & password. So I don’t know if my caution was fear based or just practical internet awareness. But I do know I don’t want more unwanted emails from people harvesting addresses.

  196. meera says:

    garimo this is a forum of a sannyasin ma
    as I told you..
    nobody sent you e.mails …
    people are sharing their insights….

    don´t you know the ning network?!
    its a great opportunity to meet people..

  197. garimo says:

    > don´t you know the ning network?!
    its a great opportunity to meet people..

    Nope, It was not a site I was familiar with, and there was no link to a home page
    from the page I was looking at. So it looked like it could have been a phishing page.
    I’m glad you find it an enjoyable site for you. I’ll consider looking again.

  198. Neo Vivek says:

    Advertisement industry knows the best about buddhafield!
    Just saw the latest DoCoMo advt..

    The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

    The tagline was
    “Why walk alone when you can dance together”

  199. meera says:

    nice one vivek
    nice people
    from where are they from?

  200. Shanti says:

    Bubbie. I do not want to be disrespectful to you… if you are the same prem bubbie as before… because man, you seem possessed by meera, really.
    We have the tendency to project our own stuff on everybody… you think we are all miserable. i am not. I used to think we were all happy… you prove me wrong. That is the way it goes.
    Now what the hell happened to you 1986 that got you so bitter?
    And I am asking you seriously.

  201. meera says:

    sahnti : ´possessed by meera…….hahahahaaaa

    one can make out shanti
    that you are POSSESSED
    by some DEVIL ::
    EVIL::: FEAR

    AND
    ´FEAR IST THE ABSENCEOF LOVE´::OSHO

    hight time for you to become conscious
    otherwise your
    projections ..
    imaginations
    fantasies..
    jelaousies..
    madness
    is driving you nuts….

    bubbi is showing his real face…
    you have a problem
    because you are a SP= suppresive person
    who wants to monopolize others according to your fantasy..
    you judge others if the don´t fit in your fantasy- sheme…
    you yourself are full of vulgar talk….

    BECOME AWARE:::

    try MEDITATION
    for a change
    instead of judging others…

    if OSHO is your master
    as you claim
    and not some fantasyguy..
    christian.. yes… hahahahahahaa
    good god……

  202. Shanti says:

    was that a psychotoc episode meera dear? I have troubles making sense of what you write…
    Let bubbie answer for himself… I am sure we can understand without your vomit in between.
    Go lick rajneesh feet….

  203. Anand says:

    Prem Bubbie: enjoy your turkey!

  204. Kranti says:

    Mm.. I just finished myself with a stupid management and said bye today to the organization where I worked for 3 years.. World has become a bit too much…

    So much tiredness accumulated all these years and when I handed over my Idenity card to the administration i fell in to a nice deep silence.. a sense of not belonging.. i enjoyed it..

    Boarding a bus for pune for a week.. to be in the Buddhafield.. mm.. Oshofield to be precise..

    Oh my Osho.. How much i need you..inspite of whatever you tell us about being independednt

  205. Shanti says:

    well done Kranti!! congratulations on your courage… enjoy dancing in buddha grove!

  206. Kranti says:

    If any of you are planning to visit pune in the next two months please mail me.. I will be in and out of pune few times..It will be beautiful hug each other rather than relating in forum alone..

  207. Kranti says:

    Thanks Shanti

  208. Anand says:

    Kranti: that stupid management allowed you to maintain a huge sannyasnews presence from work, if I do not error.

    Happy Thanksgiving from Miami to Kranti, Shantam Prem, Dhanyam and Shanti.

  209. Anand says:

    Hey Bubbie aka bullie: did you ever try Osho Dynamic Meditation? Osho developed this for people with anger problems like you. Or try some pot, it should overcome Seattle depressions!

  210. oshobob says:

    I would say it’s very possible that prem bubbie is a US government agent, trying to demean the Osho community at large by his consistently negative posts.

    I also think he could very well be the ex-Osho sannyasin Sw. Prem Pranama (or ‘Prenama’), who is the son of Jeane Kirkpatrick, the UN Ambassador in Ronald Reagan’s cabinet back in the early ’80′s.

    If you notice in his posts, bubbie is always egging sannyasins to come forward with admissions of illegal or immoral activity. He’s the one who floated up the totally unsubstantiated innuendo of Ma Laxmi and the Pune 1 org of putting forth “ultimatums” to sannyasin Ma’s to engage in prostitution with kickbacks to the ashram or leave. There is no basis for that accusation at all, from the record. Same with the drug allegations connected to the Ashram.

    He wants the Resort to be torn down, not improved. He throws mud at influential sannyasins like Keerti, he castigates all people who want to be connected to any Osho group as being unable to live on their own, etc. It seems like it’s a non-stop barrage of anti-Osho stuff, with no real discernible motivation showing for his destructive tirades.

    prem bubbie was also the one who initiated the anti-Dalai Lama, anti-China posts a few weeks ago in a thread here. Seemingly from out of nowhere. Doubly odd, because usually anti-China people are pro-Dalai Lama. And the pro-China people (mostly the Chinese themselves) are anti-Dalai Lama.

    He is the guy who threw in the story of Jeane Kirkpatrick’s son being a sannyasin at the Ranch, and telling the “unknown” story of why Osho was allowed to leave the US and not be put on trial.

    Jeane Kirkpatrick, for those of you who do not follow politics and current events much, was a highly conservative ally of Reagan in his administration. Her main claim to fame was that she was a staunch and virulent anti-communist. Her tenure as a UN Ambassador for the US Government was basically predicated on that stance. She was also a firm believer in strong and vengeful God, a religious attitude that segued into her hatred of communism perfectly and conveniently. During Reagan’s administration, the Soviet Union (remember the “evil empire” statement), and China were main targets of the pro-Christian, pro-capitalism agenda of the American white power elite. Also included in that agenda was Osho’s Ranch at Rajneeshpuram, which was very non-Christian, non-capitalistic, and non-American too (a multi-national, non-denominational commune, the antithesis of all of Reagan and his associates’ ideals.

    prem bubbie seems to have a very political underpinning to his personality, almost what we call in America “Libertarian.” A Libertarian talks like a wild radical liberal, but lives like a hard-core conservative. Anti-communist/pro-capitalist. Anti-government/pro-individualism. Pro freedom/anti-regulation. etc.

    bubbie’s view of the Dalai Lama (liked him at first, then didn’t like him after awhile), encouraging boycotting Chinese products to bring the Dragon down to its knees, and so on, are all things that neo-conservatives in America latch onto — ideas right up Jeane Kirkpatrick’s alley.

    When I saw that this ex-Osho sannyasin Sw. Pranama had faded out of the Osho world in the late 80′s, and remorphed himself into a supposed reincarnation of a 19th century Tibetan lama, naming himself Traktung Rinpoche, I started to wonder a bit. No one but himself gives any credence to his claim, in fact the office of the Dalai Lama dismisses him outright as having no authenticity to his lineage claims. He goes around trying to get some recognition from the Tibetan community, but it seems it’s non-existent. He and his American wife (also picking up some Tibetan name out of the hat), dress up in traditional Tibetan clothes sometimes, and talk (you can check out his YouTube videos) some fairly meaningless pseudo-Buddhist, pseudo-Tibetan mumbo-jumbo.With his bio of traveling around to many different spiritual groups, including Osho, and now picking up this Tibetan lama charade, I would say I smell a rat. The whole thing seems bogus. Probably Sw. Pranama was a Reagan plant all along, and now has moved on to the Tibetan Buddhist global story, again a cover for some similar agenda.

    So all this begs the questions of why prem bubbie brings up the Sw. Pranama story, the anti-Dalai Lama, anti-China post, the continual harangues against everything in the Osho sphere, his resistance to reveal his identity or photo (he’s says you would vomit if you see his photo, as if you would know him from the past), his relentless demands for more bad rap info on the Osho sannyasins, etc.

    Another odd story, for sure. I could be wrong about the connection here, but there are many similarities. Maybe even they are two different people, with intersecting personas. Anything’s possible at Sannyasnews or in the wild world of Osho. Makes life interesting anyway, no doubt about it.

    Does anyone else here at Sannyasnews have any experience with Sw. Pranama from Pune 1, the Ranch, Pune 2, or his new incarnation? It would be interesting to hear. For prem bubbie, we just have to wait, unless he comes forth with some revealing info on his own, for his true story and motivations here.

    An afterthought…

    They (bubbie and pranama) could even possibly be agents of Osho himself, play-acting their way into the drama as rogue bandits, agent provocateurs with a hidden agenda. Possible.

  211. Kranti–”If any of you are planning to visit pune in the next two months please mail me.”
    Someone informed me from the West that on 19th January there will be about 1000 Osho Lovers walking with him in Koregaon Park to convey some message. You may see them. I would expect some reporting from you if media did not publish any news. It would be Osho’s 20 years of leaving body–Mahaparinirvana Day.

  212. shantam prem says:

    Happy Thanksgiving from Miami to Kranti, Shantam Prem, Dhanyam and Shanti….

    Anand, can you imagine how contented my heart felt to read this.

    Festivals may not turn us into the pubic hair of existance, but the value of rituals, continuety and tradition can also be the tools for seekers.

    If you know how to love you don´t ask for the identity card, if one has learnt the art of festivity than one can celebrate ID too, without being political or Muslim.

    It means, there is no harm to continue Osho celebrations too. As far as my unofficial observation is during the chaos of festivities at ashram, more people went to meditations and more “candles were buring” in the flats/rooms of sannyasins.

  213. shantam prem says:

    Prem Bubbie must answer the points raised by Bob.
    His photo will be appreciated too.

  214. meera says:

    shanti said;

    ´Let bubbie answer for himself… I am sure we can understand without your vomit in between.
    Go lick rajneesh feet….´

    as i said shanti you are a mental diariha

  215. shantam prem says:

    Shanti and Meera,
    Don´t fall so low or were you chosen by the master in the inner circle!
    A collision govt. with ten women, now i wonder why Osho forgot that Chinese language sign he mentioned quite often, War is depicted by two woman opposite each other.

    Can you both visulaise together in one room with another man!
    it can be this shantam too.
    I am sure he will do all when it is a question of world peace.

  216. Anand says:

    Bob: very interesting angle. I was already wondering, what over the top weirdo
    is vomiting his anti Osho stuff here. But what you say, makes sense….

    Now if we could just give Meera some sanity shower….

  217. meera says:

    hahah shantam.. what have you decided for worldpeace?

    here Anand your sanity shower:

    ´REMEMBER: IGNORANCE IS NOT STUPIDITY, KNOWLEDGE IS. Ignorance is innocence. No question, no answer… one simply lives moment-to-moment.

    AND ONE IS GRATEFUL BECAUSE ONE IS, one is grateful because the universe is. One is grateful because the sun rises, and the birds sing, and the flowers bloom, and the clouds float, and in the night the sky becomes full of stars. One is simply grateful because there are mountains and rivers and oceans and deserts. One is simply grateful because there are animals and human beings. Such an incredible existence, so far out! Such a celebration — so psychedelic, so colorful! Such a dance of energy!

    WHEN FEELING IT YOU SIMPLY BOW DOWN, you simply bow down on the earth. Not in a temple, not in a mosque, not in a gurudwara, not in a church — they are all man-made. When you simply bow down before the sky, before the sunset — with no motive… What can you ask from a sunset? You cannot ask for money, you cannot ask for power, you cannot ask for prestige. It will look so stupid! What can you ask from a
    tree?

    But when you go in a temple, in a church, you start asking for these things. Your prayer is rooted in some motive. AND A PRAYER ROOTED IN ANY MOTIVE IS UGLY, a prayer addressed to somebody is ugly. But just a prayerfulness, a thankfulness, a pure gratitude… THE SHEER JOY that we are part of such a mysterious existence!

    You are very close to understanding that ALL QUESTIONS ARE POINTLESS, but you have not yet touched the target; you are going round and round.

    You say: “All questions seem to be pointless.”

    Why you use the word ‘seem’? There is still some possibility: “Maybe, perhaps there is a question that is not known to me yet which is not pointless.” Hence your second statement: “Only the answerless question of life remains.”

    Although you say it is answerless, still you call it a question. BE VERY WATCHFUL ABOUT WORDS. Be very careful what you say, how you say — because it shows your state of consciousness. You are very close, missing the target only by inches. But whether you miss the target by inches or by miles it makes no difference — you miss it all the same.

    Become a little more alert. LET ALL QUESTIONS GO, AND ALL ANSWERS. Remain in that silence that is left behind. Become that silence, BE that silence.

    C. E. Bignall says:
    Where shall wisdom be found?
    Be still and know.
    Seek the strength of no desire.´

    OSHO
    Be Still and Know
    Ch #3: No question, no answer
    am in Buddha Hall

  218. frank says:

    very mysterious keerti,
    so,look out for a “man from the west” with 1000 others walking in koregaon park area……….
    with a message….

    bodhidharma?
    clint eastwood?
    oh my god…
    no…..
    walking…
    slow…..
    of course….
    a paisa to a rupee says……
    mahaparadaberdoo…
    its………..

    brian rajneesh !!!!

  219. shantam prem says:

    Frank,
    How many clicks you expect on you tube during the first week, Once this video of 19th January protestival is uploaded?

  220. oshobob says:

    No way frank,
    cause Raj is from the East, not the West,
    it has to be a guy from the West,
    according to Mr. K.
    it’s not me, i know that
    it’s not you frank, most probably not,
    i just can’t see you leading 1,000 people anywhere
    it must be….

    Brian Lovebaba Harideva, handing out free tickets to his Goa love-in beach party,
    or,
    Abhay, carrying a 10-year pack of water filters,
    or,
    geez, i’m running out of guys that want to march to the Gateless Gate that live in the West, mmmmm, let’s see…i know…

    Barack Obama! Leading the 1,000 Man March of Half White/Half Kenyan men who want to take sannyas after all…I’m sure the media will cover it…

  221. Anthony thompson says:

    perhaps it is me… leading the 1000 men march… and coming with the latest research…
    ha, ha, ha

  222. Anthony thompson says:

    ok. perhaps the sannyasins are again blowing up the figures…
    so, the 1000 men are actually me a couple of young german girls, shantam prem chasing shanti, kranti hoping to get finally laid at the sex guru´s ashram… and a couple of rickshaw Wallas.

  223. oshobob says:

    “blowing up the figures again” you say Anthony…!

    it must be Headley then, coming out of Chicago’s FBI Detention Center, leading 1,000 hard-core Islamic terrorists, AK-47′s held high, bomb vests, chanting Arabic slogans….god, looks like Dhanyam was right after all…!

  224. Anand says:

    Thanks Meera. Maybe you softened up a bit.
    But read your own statement and compare with what you have written recently here:

    BE VERY WATCHFUL ABOUT WORDS. Be very careful what you say, how you say — because it shows your state of consciousness. You are very close, missing the target only by inches. But whether you miss the target by inches or by miles it makes no difference — you miss it all the same.

  225. shantam prem says:

    For many years, 19th January was celebrated with the carnival around Koregaon Park.
    Who so ever leads the Protestivity, it will be a celebration worth of news. WHy people not use their fundamental right of protest or people should accept that God had one begotten son and Osho, always wanted to be one step ahead…gave us the twins!

    Like big pharma companies, sannyasins have the tendency to cover up the side effects and dig the shit out of the opponents…

    So do the Masters and Master of the Masters!

  226. shantam prem says:

    In history there are many instances of palace politics taking the shape of blood bath or exile or imprisonment.
    In many instances, one brother kills other siblings, put the father in prison and rules for decades.
    Naturally during this time, the king took care of roads and other infrastructure and commoners were more or less happy.
    The whole middle east is still like this.

    Without doubt intentions all always good. Power rides over the horse called good intentions. The desire to control and dominate the jungle of life around has not got its due attention.

    Just because we listen Osho and have done HOHOHO few months, does it mean the instinct or impulse of domination and control or power will disappear from our system?

    Other than enlightend people, who chalk out a new path and certified dictators, every body else must accomodate the others in power sharing system.
    In this sense, the idea of democracy, in its many forms and limitations is still one of the best contributions of the western mind.
    If not twenty atleast ten people, is it so difficult to create even this small inner circle around the DOT.

    As Osho tells in a story of some famous man, Once a beautiful woman asked this highly intelligent man, ” our child will be one of its kind. Your brain and my beauty.”
    The man replied, other side is also possible, if the child gets my features and your brain.”

    In our world, east and west marriage has also taken place, but why it is always doggy style, spooning can be more suitable.

  227. meera says:

    Anand I soften or harden according to the person approaching me..

    some people are very hard so I have to be harder? GOT IT??!!!

    ´onward christian soldiers marching off to WAR´

  228. I wud love to see festive carnivals around the world–including Pune of course. Indians may be doing Kirtans in the streets, and the Western friends could do their own Dance-Trance, Let it be really a colourful event. Ma Yoga Neelam is going to flag off Kirtan Group from Rajkot, Gujarat. This group wud be led by Ma Abha, who is facilitating meditation camps all over India.

    I wud like that all of you who are busy discussing whatever you are, please read an excerpt from Osho discourse on Sufi with patience…..

    Man is a trinity — body, mind, soul — and that’s what those three things represent. The bottle represents the body, the water represents the mind, and oil represents the mind if it becomes meditation. So mind has two possibilities: either it can be water or it can be oil. If it is with thoughts, it is water; if it is with no thoughts, it is oil. And the soul is the fire. These are the three things.

    We have the bottle and we have the possibility of filling it either with oil or with water. And both are possibilities of the mind. Mind with thoughts becomes water — then you can go on applying fire to it and darkness will remain there. That’s why you live in darkness — your mind is water and the fire is continuously being put out. With a mind too full of thoughts the spirit disappears, the fire disappears, the soul is no longer there. Unless the body is filled with no-mind, unless the body is filled by thoughtlessness or a thoughtless mind, you will not be enlightened.

    Once mind is no longer watery, once thoughts have disappeared and there is silence, purity, innocence, it becomes oil. And suddenly you will see a light arising. The fire is there — just the oil is needed. The bottle is there, the fire is there, but between the two there is water. And with water there is no possibility of fire. You live without fire and without light.

    Abdul-Aziz says: If YOU PLACE THE WICK IN THE OIL…. Remember, IN THE OIL. If the soul is placed in the oil — in a meditative state, in samadhi — you will get light. There will be no trouble; you will become enlightened. So don’t bother about coming here or going anywhere else. Do a simple thing: let mind disappear, let no-mind arise. If the body and the soul are connected by no mind, they are in tune. And suddenly there is song and there is dance and there is celebration. There is joy, there is eternal joy, what Hindus call SATCHIDANANDA — truth, consciousness, bliss — all are there.

    Once your trinity is in tune…. If the trinity is not in tune you will remain in darkness. If the mind is there continuously creating more and more thoughts you are filled with water. this is the state of the worldly man, the man who continuously thinks, day and night, day in, day out, from birth to death — he continuously goes on thinking. He lives without fire, he lives without light, he lives without joy. In fact he lives a very dead life.

    Or, there is one further possibility: the state of the so-called religious people, the other-worldly people. You can have a mixture of mind and no-mind. Then there will be a spluttering and a going out. Then sometimes you will have a few glimpses but they will go. Nothing wilL really be yours. Just like dreams they will come and go.

    Mind can have these three states: the ordinary state of thinking, the extraordinary state of contemplation…. This is the state of contemplation: a water-oil mix. And in the West people nave never searched beyond contemplation. All their words for DHYANA or JIKR mean only contemplation. Even the word ‘meditation’ simply means to think in a better way, to meditate. Contemplation means to think in a better way, but thinking remains. It just becomes more concentrated, it is less zig-zag. It has a direction, it has a goal. It is not insane, it has a certain purpose and meaning, but it remains thinking. It is no longer mad, so something of the no-mind enters into it, but it is only ‘something’. Water and oil are mixed. And sometimes there will be a spluttering and a going out. Sometimes the fire will be there and sometimes it will not be there. There will be lightning experiences.

    That’s what has happened to Christian saints. Their experiences about God are not like Mansoor or Abdul-Aziz or Buddha. Their experiences of God are just glimpses — they come and they disappear. They are better than nothing but they are nothing compared with that experience which comes and never goes again, they are nothing compared with enlightenment.
    So these are the three possibilities: either the water and oil are mixed, or there is only water, or there is only oil. the worldly man remains with water, the religious man remains with a mixture, and the spiritual man starts seeing the point and fills his being with no-mind, with DHYANA, with a thoughtless awareness, with a contentless consciousness. He is simply alert; not alert of anything in particular, just alert. He is awake.

    Sufism is existential, experimental, experiential. It insists that God can be known by simple methods, that there is no need to philosophise .

    Many times people come to me, people who are knowledgeable, and they say — particularly Indians — ‘What is the meaning of dancing? How can one attain to God by dancing?’

    Dancing is an experiment, an experiment to bring your body, your mind, your soul, in tune. Dance is one of the most rhythmic phenomena. If you are really dancing there is no other activity which creates such unity. If you are sitting, the body is not used; then you use only your mind. If you are running very fast, your life is in danger, then you use your body and you don’t use your mind. In dance you are neither sitting nor running for your life. It is movement, a joyful movement. The body is moving, the energy is flowing, the mind is moving, the mind is flowing. And when these two things are flowing they melt into each other. You become psychosomatic. A certain alchemy starts happening.
    That’s why you see a new kind of grace on the face of the dancer, it is alchemical — the body-mind meeting, merging, the body-mind becoming one tune, one rhythm, one harmony. When this harmony has happened then the third, the soul, starts entering into it. The soul can enter into your existence only when your body and mind are no longer in conflict, when your body and mind co-operate, when your body and mind are deep in love, embracing, hugging each other… that’s what happens in dance. Then immediately you will find the third entering also. When the body-mind is really in harmony, when the two are no more two, the third enters. For the first time you become a trinity, a TRIMURTI. Those are the three faces of God.

    And while you are dancing something is happening. It is an experiment. It is not just contemplation — just sitting and thinking about God — it is allowing God to enter into you, it is opening yourself to God. It is like a flower opening in the morning. When the flower opens, suddenly sun rays start dancing on its petals. When you open, God starts dancing in you. God can be met only through dance. There is no other activity which is more harmonious than dance. That’s why all the primitive religions were dance-based, and all the modern religions — the so-called civilised, sophisticated religions — have nothing like dance in them; they are dull affairs.

    A church looks more like a cemetery than like a temple. You can’t dance there, you can’t be joyous there, you cannot — it is not allowed. You have to be serious. You have to be very, very serious, sad, as if you are doing something wrong. The joy is missing. The joy is missing because people are just sitting, not doing anything. And the church goes on just thinking about God. The preacher talks about God and the people listen to it; the preacher thinks and the people who listen think. God is a thought, it is not an act in the church.

    In this place God is not a thought; it is an act, it is a dance. And the dance has to be of the total: body, mind, soul. Nothing has to be denied, because if you deny anything something will be missing, something will certainly be missing. And then your synthesis will not be the highest possibility, it will remain some-where low, it will not reach towards the ultimate Everest.

    These people who come here and watch and see people dancing or doing Kundalini or the Dynamic — they become very puzzled because they have an idea that one should sit and read the Geeta and think about God. That is all nonsense! By reading the Geeta and thinking about God you are not going to go anywhere. If you really want to go somewhere you have to be experimental, you have to use some method.
    Sufism has a method and has no philosophy.

    Sufis: The People of the Path, Vol 1
    Chapter #15

  229. Anand says:

    Keerti, I would prefer you tell your personal opinions and not copy Osho quotes from different contexts. I also have access to the digital library of Osho and it is easy to paste and copy Osho and create the aura of Osho knowledge.
    “Once the master is gone only his dead scriptures are left” (Osho: The Secret of Secrets).

  230. Shanti says:

    Keerti. You are a sweet guy. But sometimes you get a bit too evangelical for me. I agree with Anand…. finally!

    If you show up at 17 koregaon park with 1000 disaffected sannyasins, the people inside will look at you as if you are coming down from mars.

    Worshiping idols is long gone off that place and the idea that you guys come to re-instate the Osho´s birthday as official celebration will get a good laugh from the visitors.

    It will be as if someone would have suggested that we celebrated Ramadan when Osho was alive. we were eating the cake.
    come one keerti. keep it for your “old times sake” place.
    we really just want to go there to go in, not to perform adoration rituals.
    And as a sannyasin, I think you are just stuck in the past… really.

  231. frank says:

    that`s right,anand.
    i,for one have probably danced more days and nights away than keerti has had hot dinners.
    meera,even was the techno queen of goa.
    that takes a few hours of boogie-ing!
    now,there`s a match made in heaven….
    meera loves indian people and keerti needs a good dance.
    and they are are both fond of tossing the old osho quotes about.
    —-the pundit and the dancing queen
    sounds like a sufi story,too……..

    come on,keerti,starting rumours about politically loaded celebrations,and tossing out osho quotes,you bear a remarkable resemblance to someone who`s trying to manipulate the media.
    fancy that!

  232. frank says:

    but seriously,
    if there`s going to be a ruck involving the rival fans,i wanna be there in the park….

    osho internazionale
    versus
    osho wanderers.

    a grudge match,
    for sure.

  233. shantam prem says:

    “Once the master is gone only his dead scriptures are left” (Osho: The Secret of Secrets).

    And these dead scriputres make a good sale in America.
    A bit of black Pepper(Osho), a bit of mixed curry powder
    (Buddha, Mahatma Gandhi, Khalil Gibran, J krishnamurti), and west can cook the Turkey(Jesus) to satisfy the hunger of soul.

    Main recipe is the same for the last 20 centuries. Only the spices sometime get change.

    I love the power of one Book and the man behind.

    Osho, if you come next time and still had the desire to impress the western brain than don´t come as a Master. This concept is so foreigner to them. Come as a Messiah or better as the second son of Dearest daddy.

  234. shantam prem says:

    “you guys come to re-instate the Osho´s birthday as official celebration will get a good laugh from the visitors.”

    Shanti, have you seen somebody laughing when Jesus birthday is celebrated or when Krishna´s birthday is celebrated or when Sikhs celebrate the birthdays of their masters, not one but ten.

    These people died long ago than Osho.

    If you laugh before the main church in Barcelona, when the cream of your city is going inside for Xmas mass, please send me the postcard.

    Any way, other than Poona, all most all of the centres celebrate Osho´s birthday.

    Even though i believe birthdays are good when they are of little children. Children with their broken teeth and uneven new teeth simply look cute.

  235. frank says:

    for centuries guys with beards and robes tell you not to dance.
    then suddenly guys with robes and beards tell you
    you must dance.

    here`s a possible solution:
    just dance your own dance
    and the guys with the beards and robes will get lost
    `cos they cant dance anyway…..

  236. shantam prem says:

    An Irishman goes into the confessional box after years of being away
    from the Church.

    There’s a fully equipped bar with Guinness on tap. On the other wall
    is a dazzling array of the finest cigars and chocolates.

    Then the priest comes in. “Father, forgive me, for it’s been a very
    long time since I’ve been to confession, but I must first admit that
    the confessional box is much more inviting than it used to be.”

    The priest replies: “Get out. You’re on my side.”

    Do we have also Sannyas jokes?

  237. frank says:

    “those who cannot dance will have to content themselves with religious disputes and power struggles”

    —-frankreich frankzche

  238. Shanti says:

    Shantamy. you do not see Christians laughing about jesus birthday… but other certainly do… specially if you think he was born from a virgin mother.
    The great majority of people visiting the ashram now were not around when any of us were around. Once one ask what my mala was. when i showed it to him, still he did not know what it was.
    So, for them celebrating osho´s birthday, celebrating the birthday of someone who is dead, is for them, against what they have heard and read osho say…Osho is a master of freedom for them… celebrating his birthday will look like an awkward ritual to do.
    and totally contrary to osho´s vision.
    For you and me it might have an emotional meaning… for them is is just an empty ritual… like Christmas, that, thanks god no one is celebrating there.

  239. oshobob says:

    good new idea on the dancing thing frank…
    we definitely need some more thinking “outside the box” stuff.

    here’s one:

    instead of making such a big thing about the banned, the frustrated devotional types, and marching misfits converging on the Resort in Pune, why not bring the Resort to the rest of the world instead.

    Like Disney Theme Parks, mobile style.

    Recreate the Resort, replete with pyramids, Lao Tzu House, Buddha Hall, Chuang Tzu Samadhi, the Teerth Park, the Gateless Gate and everything else, and then just fly it around the world, like a circus does.

    One month in London, one month in New York, one month in Brazil, then New Dehli, etc. Each location could add it’s own local flavor, to make the people feel more at home. You know, have a fish ‘n chips bar included in London, for example.

    The US military has these massive big-belly airplanes that they drive Sherman Tanks up into, and then load whole infantry divisions along with ‘em — you could contract some of these out, and just fly the whole recreated Resort around the world on scheduled tour.

    Some marble-kissing kiosks, celebration days for those that like that sort of thing, the Zen atmosphere for those that are inclined to that, etc. You could even bring all the people along too, the Multiversity group leaders, the Sodexo food group, the Indian Security team…the whole package…the white swans, the cuckoo birds, whatever. Rickshawallas. Even Jayesh and Amrito could have a special booth where people could come and meet them, and discuss their concerns in an amicable way.

    Look at the money everyone would save on air fare, reduce jet fuel consumption–the Greens would like that immensely.

    And you could generate great local media coverage too as the whole extravaganza rolled into town. Many new people would be exposed to Osho — it could give a much needed jump-start to the Osho movement.

  240. frank says:

    its got to happen.

  241. shantam prem says:

    Shanti Shanti Dear Shanti,

    I think we both and most of us can look the situations in a detached way.
    When we take the sides, we have already castrated the truth. Truth comprises every thing, even the reality of lies, illusions, cover ups etc. all and everything can be embraced by the truth.

    So please, try to think in this way too that other people who are not in the controlling position, may also have the presence of grace in their actions, they may also have the good intentions and for sure they have received the same benediction too.

    For example Keerti, this we take as a vocal representative of protesting people, do you think these people are so dumb that they cannot take their wheels out of the mud of the past?

    Can you think for a moment, may be they can be right too.
    Another example is Leela, the ma who designed the Mystic Rose as it was heard by me.
    She does not facilitate the groups at the ashram any more but at Neelam´s Osho Nisraga.
    Historically when Neelam was protesting that Mystic Rose should not be done at Samadhi, Leela lead the first Mystic rose there and i had the chance to join as helper/translator.

    Most of the star therapists don´t share their expertise at Resort anymore. Have you spoken with few of them. Where they feel disappointed and where they don´t agree.
    Graceful silence of people is not always an affirmation, but many times it has a voice of protest too.

    It is not a question which finger is more useful on the hand.
    Thumb, may be the middle or the index finger or the ring finger or little pinkie…
    Cann´t we appreciate the complete hand.
    New or the old, everybody can see that the head quarter of Osho is like a hand with 2-3 fingers and we humans are intelligent and clever enough to see and ask, what happened?

    Surely within few days, the new comers get all the information and that too from the insiders that in the civil war between the monks, hand lost the fingers.

    Once we see that other side also have the grain of truth, it is a beginning of a dialogue. Then people with different visions and opinions can be hugged in a usual sannyas way rather than treated as enemies.

    And if Osho people, specially in the leadership position don´t know how to create such dialogue but choose the path of war, than i can say what one uses in the street language, “Put all your books in the ass. tomorrow they will become double!”

  242. meera says:

    timings for CELEBRATION were kabalad by Osho himself

    11.dec -19 jan =40 days–

    exactly the time
    one needs
    to go through
    BARDO (afterlifeexperience)

    40 days of celebration.. WOW

    time …to disconnect youself from the past

  243. Shanti says:

    shantam. It was me the one who asked for the pledge that everyone should be where the heart thrills. remember?
    I am not going to go to Nisarga or or Keerti´s place in Delhi to protest because they sill perform things as when my master was alive, and that now they should get updated. It is their trip.
    Most therapist that do not go to pune, do it beacuse they are required to do white robe and to work as guards or whatever if they are not running groups if they want to be on support.
    But still it is their freedom and right not to go if they disagree.

    The nowadays visitors really do not care about any politics. they just go there for meditation and because they love or feel attracted to osho. I remember when Harideva was protesting at the gate, even, when Italian Sarjano was protesting and people really did not care. It is their holiday, they do not give a shit about who runs the place and how, as far as the service they pay for is provided. that is the truth.
    Some one i talked to could not belie we wore red all the time. It looked so far fetched from what is now.
    They are so uninterested in all the politics or history that they do not even know when Osho left his body. and they do not care.
    They are there for themselves, using osho as inspiration. But they are not there for Osho as we did. And I think it is natural. He is no more there. And ashes are ashes, not living masters.

  244. Anand says:

    Shantam, Osho therapists spent their winters at Osho Resort also to pick up new clients and invitations for their overseas business.
    Meanwhile honestly business has been declining and they have set up their international schedules and are busy all year around.

    It is just natural, that they over the years have a different flow of their travel schedules, which I feel is totally ok. Path of Love is still looking for new participants though…..

  245. meera says:

    keerti
    I love this discourse from OSHO very much……

    .. the dancer disappeared

    and only the dance remains

    LA ILAHA ILLALA

    SUFIS :::PEOPLE ON THE PATH

  246. meera says:

    yes therapy is still the biggest business…
    actually the biggest business
    is with sickness
    worldwide

    that is why i call these therapists the
    new age priesthood

    and sure all the star therapists left from Pune
    what is leftover
    is really a silly bunch of crack-pots in blackrobes
    they are the most miserable people at the resort
    just the sight of them,…
    always worried
    always looking very thoughtful and occupied
    ..
    while the remaining tourists
    are enjoyxing boozing and hanging around whole day…
    so boring..
    they don´t even know ho to enjoy India..
    they never come out to countryside

    they finish silly therapy programmms
    and heading back to the airport HAHAHAHAAAAA

    ITS HILLARIOUS:::

    I myself lived 10 years in India ..
    my house a portuguese villa was in Goa..
    my 2nd residency Poona

    I lived among wild and uncivilised people
    my only group was a 21 day group
    enlightenment intensive
    in 1981.. with encounter
    after that I started on an amazing journey for 10 years

    here back in the west since 20 years
    I have to deal with all kinds of mad people..
    sure therapy is required…
    but one should not get stuck there…

  247. shantam prem says:

    Ashes are ashes, not living Master.
    Why for God sake Canadians cann´t go to Canada and English to England.
    By sticking to Pune, these people who think ashes are ashes, are proving that their land and their people are barren.

    I have also read the stories about few junkies who go regularly to Brothal even though the prostitute has died long ago.
    If people are interested in Living master, they can google, what gives in the market and those who have got enough daddy from their late Master, must also go home. Why the Fuck Pune?
    Why not Hawai or Brighton or Edementon or Milan.
    Even Ibiza is much much better. Let these people plant the flowers in their world. Why the graveyard of a dead master and his ashes in a capsuled room.
    It is a pity that someone goes to Pune to be with three hundred other people. Why these integrated souls, the blessed beings cannot gather three hundred people in their homeland for a Buddhagrove kind of music.

    Everyday is a celebration, every fibre of the earth is a lotus paradise.
    Nilam´s Nisarga, Keerti´s Delhi, Arun´s Pokhra, Abibhava´s Sidona, Yoga Chinmaya´s Almorha, Narendra Bodhisatva´s Dehradun and JAYESH´s Pune….perfect

    I have not added Viresh´s humanversity…..He seems to be the most honest person.
    He did what he always did, created his own brand and own product delivery system.

  248. shantam prem says:

    It is not a question who is right and who is wrong. Power equations decide the human perspective.
    And also this no one, no one can predict whether the girls on the street and their agents will give the blow job to existence(before God used to have. Now the prodigal son called existence) or the highly confident meditating Mas and swamis in the robes, selling enlightenment’s like the bald headed salesmen selling hair tonic.

    One thing which i feel happy to see is the lack of very basic honesty in our world too.
    Osho was condemning the old rotten past and it is a liberating experience to see that futuristic structures also are made with the same stuff called revelry, onemanship and cover ups.

    I don´t have the digital Osho books with me but remember quite well when he used to tease the Jaina religion and their deity with clothes and 25 centuries old conflict with those who worship the deity without clothes.

    One can see a subtle pride on His face that with me it is not going to happen.

    And just 10 years…and the real reality has emerged. Two groups one who believe Man has died and still cannot let go the place and those who were forced to let go, believe masters don´t die only leave the body.
    And wonder is those who treat him dead speak in present tense about him.

  249. meera says:

    A sannyasin says: I have trouble talking. More and more.

    IT COMES SOMETIMES, AND IT IS A GOOD SIGN. The real trouble is with people who go on talking and don’t know what they are talking about and why. They go on talking because they cannot stop.

    But if you become a little aware of the whole nonsense, and the trouble that goes on and on in the mind, ONCE YOU BECOME AWARE THAT THERE IS NOTHING TO SAY, that everything seems to be trivia, then you hesitate.

    In the beginning it feels as though you are losing the capacity to communicate — it is not so. In fact, PEOPLE TALK NOT TO COMMUNICATE, BUT TO AVOID COMMUNICATION. Soon you will be able to really communicate, mm? Just wait and don’t force anything.

    Things are going very well. DON’T BE WORRIED ABOUT THE SILENCE. One does because the whole society exists on talking, on language, and people who are very articulate in talking become very powerful in society — leaders, scholars, politicians, writers. One soon becomes afraid that one is losing one’s grip on language, but don’t be worried. SILENCE IS THE GRIP ON GOD, and once you know what silence is, you have something to talk about.

    ONCE YOU HAVE GONE DEEPER INTO SILENCE, then your words carry meaning for the first time. Then they are not just empty words, they are full of something of the beyond. They have a poetry to them, a dance… they carry your inner grace with them.

    But just wait and don’t force, because that will be very very destructive. IF YOU DON’T FEEL LIKE TALKING, DON’T — don’t say a single word that is not coming spontaneously. Don’t be worried if people think you are going crazy. Accept it. If they think you have become dumb, accept it and enjoy your dumbness! LAUGH MORE AND TALK LESS!

    OSHO
    Above All Don’t Wobble.
    Ch #13, a darshan diary
    pm in Chuang Tzu Auditorium

  250. meera says:

    HAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAAAAAA

    shantam …the MASTER IS DEAD ????!!!!!!!!

  251. shantam prem says:

    Meera
    You seem to have access to most of His talks.
    Can you please fix that discourse , where he mentions about commune going health club way in 1988-89

    Complete discourse, not just paragraph.

    Because it seems that discourse brought the turning point in the minds of His people, how to execute the future of His work.

    About the higher truth i don´t know. How one can know whether Master has died or left the body. Now whether he is revolving around like the satellite of mobile companies or vanished for ever or he is reborn again to marry this time his Gudiya/ Nirvano.

    Few things are beyond comprehension but the conventional wisdom says that the testament of the dead should be respected in the words and spirit.

    If 20 persons inner circle was His last wish connected with the work. It should be full filled. what does it matter if first 20 slipped on the icy slops, again and again till a system is resolved.
    If he has mentioned directly or indirectly do´s and don´ts, that should be also done as per His wishes. So simple it will be if Amrito gives a statement that few days before His death, he mentioned that it will look stupid if you celebrate my birthday. This is not my way. and matter is resolved for ever.
    So the end point is the complete honesty while dealing with the wishes of the deceased. And here it is not just an ordinary citizen but a Master. Not a professor or vice chancellor but A MASTER.

  252. Anand says:

    I always find it interesting every year at this time, preparing for traveling to Pune. It is not such an easy journey from the US and via the pitfalls of Mumbai to Pune.
    Every year I feel I re-enter in a new world. In a way it is so known and I feel very connect and at the same time every year it feels also totally unknown.

    There are the old friends, yes every year less. Some died, some did not make it and some are down in Goa or banned. I appreciate to re-connect with the old friends, but at the same time also feel appreciation for all the new arrivals. And then there is always the re-connection with the deeper energy within myself and with myself.

    Once my annual visit/ “pilgrimage’ is over I always seem to treasure this place again, feel re-connected to Osho and sannyasins and have forgotten about the pain of travel, the problems with the body and just ride on a wave of bliss back to my regular life.

    This might seem outdated, old fashioned to many, but I have enjoyed the many meditations, the Evening Meditations, the meetings with old friends and in a way I don’t care, who is running the place, if it could be better in a different way, how many Osho pictures I saw or which groups have been offered at Osho Multiversity.
    So far every year I packed my bags and knew, it was the right thing to do…for me. Maybe Delhi is nice too, maybe Neelam has a nice place North, but I still feel connected to the ashram/ resort experience in Pune.

  253. Shanti says:

    I feel the same.
    shantam people and me go there to be in a buddhafield. no one can take that away. we go to “go in”, to connect, to feel.
    There is no place like this on earth and it keeps renewing itself. it is not like the old Gandhi ashram. It is alive. yes osho is gone, but his experiment, his vision is what the ashram, resort is. absolutely his place. the energy is there, just the cobwebs have been removed if you ask me.
    kirtans, pictures, devotional songs, special ambassadors to India and beyond, is not what the ashram is about. It is about meditation, osho meditations, and that something that can not be put in words. It is the place I most want to be in.

  254. Shanti says:

    IN relation to your question. I was there when Anando, neelam and amrito announced the changes and that osho wanted the biggest health club in the world, with zennis, and pool and all. And that people were not to be supported by the ashram , bu the other way around.
    ask Neelam. she was there.

  255. Shanti says:

    Shantam. about osho´s birthday. we celebrated when he was in the body. he never said do not celebrate my birthday. he was there. But to keep on celebrating the birthday of someone who is not in the body is absurd. Do you expect your family to keep on celebrating your birthday after you are dead?

    All osho said and implemented was for his being there. How on hell was he going to think afterwards?
    It is like saying that osho never said anything about not bringing food to his room after he was dead. Now why not to do that? the answer is simple. beacuse he is not in the room. he is dead, gone, left the body.

  256. Anand says:

    Shanti….you say, what I feel. I have only two wishes: get the smokers out of the centre cafe area and keep the live music going.

    This thread became nearly peaceful after the de-masking of Prem Bullie and the
    softening of Meera.

  257. Shanti says:

    I was blissed out singing “happy birthday to you”. But it was to YOU… not to your memory or to your picture.

  258. Anand says:

    I agree Shanti. Sannyasins like to drift in the sentimental zone “I am drinking from your wine Osho”….

    I always liked to be in India during Christmas season, so not to go through the motions of the Christian holiday season. The celebrations were fun with Osho alive and kicking. I remember the old celebrations, with ice cream, prasad and llve music. On the ranch we received Osho books. But now even Miten and Premal are banned.

    In that way I appreciate the work Jayesh has done to kill all of our instincts and desire for religion.

  259. shantam prem says:

    Shanti,

    First of all i agree with you with a remark , (for the people who have tasted Osho and Ashram for a period of time) There is no place like this on earth and it keeps renewing itself.
    For billions and billions others, it is just a hot air. Even for Koregaon park People, if ashram/resort shuts down, there will not be even a thought of inconviniecnce.

    Still, 17, Koregaon Park is unique not because of some person´s efforts or money. It is unique because thousands of people from around the world have put their passion into a common pool.
    This place can renew itself million times more, if few people drop their whitemen´s burden and the place is run by the pool of people with diverse opinions, so that the hand is complete with five fingers.

    As far as i remember, i was in that meeting too, when Anando, neelam and amrito announced the changes and that osho wanted the biggest health club in the world, with zennis, and pool and all. And that people were not to be supported by the ashram , but the other way around.

    How much spirit of that meeting and His vision is implemented, it is fruitless to discuss, as every side has their logic’s.
    The fact is the present system cannot operate beyond Jayesh life time. It is not written in any Maya calender, it is a common sense the way human emotions work. Hundreds of thousands of people just in India are waiting to follow the path and days chartered by Osho. When Jayesh is gone too, do you think the people will follow the days of Osho or of one of his disciple(the main one, the financer)

    But ultimately, we are responsible for our search. As there is no ready made questions and answers, and tomorrow may never come. For an individual seeker, it is a breath to breath time frame.

    If some people think by defending the present way at their research lab, they are serving their search better, it is just fine and the same way, who think by dethroning the present management, they will serve the cause of Truth better, this is fine too.
    Just hours ago read a big banner at the main university building, ” WE CANNOT NOT CHANGE THE UNI ”
    The Mahabharata, the holy war of India, the epic, the drama around Dharma…and Osho´s most amazing commentaries on them…. something like this i have heard him saying that it is an eternal war between two sides. Both claim to be closer to truth but in the end…only truth wins…..
    Every generation and every individual fights his own Mahabharata….

    As i mentioned the other day, i wish all the success to the endeavours and interpretation of Jayesh and Amrito. Let they hold the steering wheel as long it is destined and as the life moves..another group of people will get their chance too. it is just a matter of time. Organisations have longer life span than individual and their own dramatic events. Here too Everybody will get his 15 minutes of fame.

    On a personal level i will always bow down to His memory, as no other person i can remember who gave us so much motivation, so much dignity.
    To walk alone is not scary and what a freedom not to be part of any tribe, but to feel wonder about the cosmic intelligence. Kings or beggars, enlighteneds or endarkends… the cosmic ATM never lies and cheats or betrays. What so ever Osho´s personal relation with the ATM operator, for us His disciples, He is surely one of the finest eye surgeon of our time, and may be that is the beauty we all can see in our own way, there is no one dictate from the high command. and the danger is in this situation, if there are no rules of fair play, man with the stick will have the cow.
    Those who want to follow the cow boys will have the milk and meat at the end of the day, those who want to search the truth, will go their way in the uncharted journey.

  260. shantam prem says:

    “In that way I appreciate the work Jayesh has done to kill all of our instincts and desire for religion.”
    This is very true.

    Once at the door of English Osho Times at Mirdad, a sign was sticked, ” I am waiting for the blessings which don´t come in disguise.”

    And those new seeds growing day by day in India, who are waiting for their taste of the days with Osho, the music and the dance and the milieu they see in the uncut videos, who have not even lived their instinct and desire of a new religiousity, don´t loose the heart. Your teen age years will come too.
    After Jayesh it will be almost impossible for one individual to have such a complete iron grip. May he live long and happy… still if one deducts 62 from 100, only 38 are left!

  261. Prem Abhay says:

    Well OshoBob you have some interesting theories. Have you read the latest news about Headley. Apparently he spent time in jail in the US for running drugs from Pakistan. Afterwards he (apparently) worked undercover as a US agent trying to uncover the drug trade routes. I think it was the New York Times that reported this. It gives a little more credence to your conspiracy theory.

    As for the protestivities, well I suppose it sounds like it might be entertaining, and I do like entertainment. Of course I myself am wondering where everyone was two years ago. I have moved on since then and no longer do volunteer work. These days I work as a hired (intellectual) gun, and no one has hired me for the protestivities. Who knows, maybe I will see if I can get a job working for Dhyanesh as a security guard at the front gateless gate – sounds like he might need the help.

    Good of you to mention democracy Shantam. It reminds me of Harri Om. I initially thought that Harri Om might be leading the grand parade, but then I realized he (or she) would be inside drinking chai with Kranti, Anand, and Shanti. Anthony will of course be sitting on his intellectual pedestal observing the affair with maroon tinted glasses. Shantam will be at the German Bakery drowning his sorrows after just finding out the he is now officially banned, and Shanti won’t come out for a smooch. Don’t worry Shantam. This has happened to me, and I can assure you there are lots of pretty girls at the German Bakery. Can’t really say what Frank and OshoBob would be doing, but up to no good for sure. Can say for sure Keerti will be at least 300 metres from the gateless gate – we should have a perimeter marked in paint to make sure. This is especially important because the local Pune police have no idea how to count. Who knows, 300 metres might just turn into 500 metres, and poor Keerti will have to spend the night in the watch-house. Maybe he can catch up with Headley there, and let us in on the inside gossip.

    Whatever Osho’s theory of meritocracy is in practical terms irrelevant. In any case a democracy is better than a dictatorship. That there is a dictatorship of the Osho movement is beyond all reasonable doubt.

    Shantam you wish to shower blessings on Jayesh’s religious framework for Osho. Though karmic justice escapes no one, even the slow working wheels of the contemporary legal system still work. Just see how the Cambodian tyrant known as Duch is now on trial. Jayesh is a criminal and one way or another he shall stand trial for his crimes. I hope he lives a long life, the same way it is said that the Chinese perpetrators (including of Tibet) are now living long enough that they shall meet their karmic misery.

    Yahoo
    Abhay

  262. “politically loaded celebrations”,,
    Beloved Frank, frankly speaking, what is political in the following statement?

    (I wud love to see festive carnivals around the world–including Pune of course. Indians may be doing Kirtans in the streets, and the Western friends could do their own Dance-Trance, Let it be really a colourful event.)

    All I mean to say celebrating in your own way. Ordinary Indians may feel ecstatic in Kirtan dance or bollywood dancing, you and Shanti may be happy with Trance or whatever is in fashion or acceptable in the West.

    (…”.kirtans, pictures, devotional songs, special ambassadors to India and beyond, is not what the ashram is about. It is about meditation, osho meditations, and that something that can not be put in words. It is the place I most want to be in.” Shanti)

    And why some thing devotional has suddenly become so ugly? As far as I know all Osho meditations Dynamic, Kundalini, Nadabrahma, Nataraj etc that have their origin in 70′s, Vipassana 2500 years old still very effective. Do you think only Kirtan Dance is not effective because it is devotional. When you shout Osho 3 times in White robe, is it not devotional?

    Osho says Wherever my sannyasins will celebrate my presence will be felt. How does one feel his presence? Or what Osho says is wrong? And shanti is talking about the place, it came into existence in 1974, and it has all the past, the present is because of the past, whether it is 40 days old are 40 years old, even the last moment is past…why come to this place? Is it not your memory that brings you to the place. Are Jayesh, Dhyanesh and Amrito not the people of the past?

    If you are obsessed with only the new, you don’t have to go anywhere. You don’t have to discuss all this with us, just meet anybody new on the way anywhere, live moment to moment, see the trees, rivers, birds, mountains, why are you wasting your time with people who are from the past and discussing about the past?

    Osho talked on Buddha and all other mystics and brought them into the present and suddenly it is Eternal Now!

  263. shantam prem says:

    “Shantam you wish to shower blessings on Jayesh’s religious framework for Osho.”

    Abhay, if it is in my hands and heart, just today i will hand over the legacy of Osho to 10-20 people from us, people with diverse backgrounds, those who like to celebrate birthday of Osho and also those who will stay at home.

    Why it is not coming in the Dumb Kopf of few people, that Osho´s contribution lies in the fact that he integrated all techniques, all methods for all kind of people. introverts, extroverts, devotional, intellectuals…
    Can someone imagine a Chemist shop, where they say sorry, we don´t sell head ache medicine.
    I am sure even in America, the most conservative Christian Chemist sells anti baby pill and other preventions, if they are approved by FDA.
    Personal beliefs aside, if you are in an executive position, it is a sacred responsibility that others rights and choices are protected.

    To impose personal wish on others, is JUST UGLY.
    And Osho has not left any Commander in Chief, who will tell us do this or do that. If you do this this this, it is a short cut to the awakening and any way, other way is not allowed.

    Simply said, If jayesh teaches me how to make money, i will touch his feet too and if he dies before me, out of thankfullness i will bring flowers to his grave on his birthday.

    But if he wants to teach me about awakening…who knows game should be other way around and still i will decline because we are the branches of the same tree. We can share with each other but not teaching.

    With Osho, there is never a guilt mechanism. His is a multi product store. Customers decide what is good, not the sellers. Last time, i was in heart dance kind of thing in 1988, but this does not give me a right to pull this out from the inventory.
    When hall is too full on 11th December, Why Shanti should go to white robe, she is totally free not to say Happy Birthday to a dead man´s memory, but may be many others will adjust their journeys in a way that they are in Pune on this day.
    And i assure you Shanti, there will be many many new people from all over the world, who will not hesitate to enjoy the festivity.

    If living breathing person is that important still in the crowd of thousands to shout happy birthday to a short man on the podium, looks also undignified, if one looks in a rational way. May be Only Nirvano could say that, ” Happy Birthday My Crunchy Brown Sugar.”

  264. shantam prem says:

    I don´t know about many other countries but in Germany… the non Sannyasins, the educated ones, specially the women many have Osho books with all other kind of books, but if the word Osho strikes them it is because of the music from Deva Primal and Mitan, Satya And Pari and Joshua etc.

    Most of the time, when someone feteches me in their car for work or personal reasons, within minutes the Mantra music starts, a usual way to make the guest at ease.
    The music which has the foundation at Pune and is loved by all, but with a perverse irony, is taboo in its homeland, because it it devotional by nature.

  265. Anand says:

    Of course, when Jayesh and Amrito dictate all the details of a ‘no-religious approach’ towards Osho, that in itself becomes a religion again.

    And they are very fanatical about it. Have you seen Amrito at Zorbas running around and checking that after 9 am in the morning everyone is wearing maroon and does not have a shawl around them in another color? Have you seen Dhyanesh and others standing at the entrance of the pyramid, checking that your robe has the right white color and not a shade of beige? Or that your robe might be too short.

    It is all setting up the Osho religion according to Amrito and Jayesh.

  266. Beloved Abhay—Your statement is too strong–”Jayesh is a criminal and one way or another he shall stand trial for his crimes. I hope he lives a long life, the same way it is said that the Chinese perpetrators (including of Tibet) are now living long enough that they shall meet their karmic misery.”

    These statements do get recorded in the Akashik Records and keep rattling people’s minds. So avoid such harsh words.

    China condems Dalai Lama and the intelligentzia of the whole world condemns China for that. Dalai Lama continues teaching compassion and the whole world listens to him and reads him. This has become a blessing to the whole world. Much of the West is now turning to Buddha’s vision. It is a blessing in disguise–or I wud say without guise.

    Dalai Lama and thousands of his Tibetan followers have lost Tibet, but they became a blessing to the world as they took Buddha’s message everywhere.

    Some of us ( Neelam, Tathagat, Vairagya, Dharmjyoti ) sannyasins are not allowed to enter the Resort. It did not stop these people from contributing to Osho’s work. These people have done so much work outside Pune–it is incredible! They have been travelling all over India and outside India conducting meditation camps and various events. Osho Nisarga, Oshodham, Osho World…these centres and some other new centres opened by these 4-5 people are doing wonderful job. Precisely because they did not go into any negativity ( there was protestivity though ), they did not resort to any violence, as a few years back the Resort managers did create large scale paranoia in the Resort participants about these people. We had a good laugh. Some people in the discussion group here may laugh about Sarjano or Harideva, but these 2 and others were never violent. And people like me who were not allowed to come within the limit of 200 meters–do you think I would have done any violence to anybody? I wud have only hugged them or have had a cup of Chai with them.

    By the way, a few years back I was at the Visitors centre to buy some books. And some Ma’s who knew for long time and were guarding gates, greeted me me Samosas and Sweets–Usha Ma, Sohan Ma, Darshan Ma, Shashi Ma ( Osho’s younger brother’s wife.)

    (Abhay, there’s a beautiful story in the life of Guru Nanak on this dimenssion, please send me your email id, and I wud send it to you. I do not post it here. Frank may become more annoyed with me.)

  267. Anthony thompson says:

    For me the main differences between shanti, anand, keerti and shantam are due to deep cultural conditionings.

    I have been accused of racist in the past for stressing the fact that people respond to their cultural heritage.

    Devotion and surrender to the master is an eastern concept for which we have no cultural background in the west.

    When i was in pune back in 88 we did a research on the subject.
    We were trying to find out what was the initial reaction of westerners and Indians to the reverence, adoration and worship that it was shown for Osho at the time.

    For most Indians it did not represent anything out of the normal, and if there were doubts they were placed on weather the man ( osho) deserved the adoration, not the adoration itself.

    For westerners , it made a huge difference weather they have been traveling through India before, or have been to India previously to their first encounter with Osho, and weather they had socialized with sannysins before.

    Out of this group the ones who had come directly from abroad and had not socialized with sannysins, were the most outraged by such manifestation of devotion.And felt a strong resistance to them in the beginning.

    Westerners who had traveled through India had little resistance to the phenomenon because they have been exposed to it in ashrams and religious ceremonies before.

    The same was the case with people who had socialized with sannysions and had seen their devotional attitude towards Osho.

    I remember reports of people being incredibly shocked with people touching Osho´s feet or prostrating in front of an Osho picture.

    My understanding is simple. In the west it is a sign of submission ans absolute lack of self steem to perform such behavior.
    In India it is a sign of love, respect and admiration.

    Therefore people will relate to this devotional phenomenon according to their own cultural background, unless, of course, they have been socialized with sannyasins to have such behavior.

  268. shantam prem says:

    Anthony, you have touched the nerve with unbiased approach, the arche type behaviour patterns play a significant role.

    In the present global scenario, Hegemony has no place, and in the world of Osho definitely not… By asserting their mandate beyond their sphere of influence, few people are simply undermining the soul of very essence, their master stood for.

    (Hegemony is the political, economic, ideological or cultural power exerted by a dominant group over other groups, regardless of the explicit consent of the latter)

  269. Anand says:

    Maybe you are right Anthony. But I lived in India and Pune for many years. I have bowed and touched the feet of Osho many times. So I understand and feel the Indian way too. I have been singing and dancing at darshans and celebrations and have cried many tears of bliss.

    But now Osho has passed away and a new era has started. So I am moving on and not clinging to the past experience. For me it would also be fine to drop the maroon robes, the white robes, the aids tests. But I am also for opening the gates wide and invite all banned sannyasins, at least those banned for political reasons.

    I also see that Keerti, Neelam and many others of the banned sannyasins have created beautiful places and situations for Osho outside in the world.
    A wonderful side effect of being banned.

    So the dance continues….

  270. Anthony thompson says:

    What i´m trying to say Anand is that, it is a learned behavior. it is not part of your home culture. your learned it through socialization with fellow sannyasins.
    That is why it is easier for you to move on,,, comparatively speaking, than Indian nationals.

  271. meera says:

    shantam said ´Meera
    You seem to have access to most of His talks.
    Can you please fix that discourse , where he mentions about commune going health club way in 1988-89

    Complete discourse, not just paragraph.

    Because it seems that discourse brought the turning point in the minds of His people, how to execute the future of His work.

    About the higher truth i don´t know. How one can know whether Master has died or left the body. Now whether he is revolving around like the satellite of mobile companies or vanished for ever or he is reborn again to marry this time his Gudiya/ Nirvano.

    Few things are beyond comprehension but the conventional wisdom says that the testament of the dead should be respected in the words and spirit.´

    shantam
    we have sw subhuti from oregon who is posting everyday osholectures..
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RiverIIOsho/message/4482?var=1

    the ashram in Poona
    could not become other
    then a resort because it cannot be a commune..
    the commune
    was in Oregon
    the best example of how a commune is going to function..
    I have never been to oregon
    but in my vision this place
    should be purchased again by those
    who want to live with englightend Masters..
    it is holy ground.
    many people practiced living
    and it can easy become
    what it was meant to be .
    .an everlasting abode for those
    who wanna be the
    NEW MAN
    NEW WOMAN

    the MASTER WAS
    NEVER BORN
    NOR DIED
    HE is
    eternal
    ever present
    omnipotent

  272. meera says:

    Shanti // Nov 28, 2009 at 1:14 am

    Shantam. about osho´s birthday. we celebrated when he was in the body. he never said do not celebrate my birthday. he was there. But to keep on celebrating the birthday of someone who is not in the body is absurd. Do you expect your family to keep on celebrating your birthday after you are dead?

    Osho himself told us to have these4 celebrations a year…
    where we ALL gather…

    His birthday
    His deathday
    His enlightenment day
    gurupoornima (ALL gurusday)

  273. meera says:

    Anand ..
    I got very furious with you people judging other fellowtravellers..
    like my old friend rajneesh..
    I met rajneesh many years ago at the ashram when osho was on wordtour
    we were very few people who were friends .
    .one was a royal blood sw from nepal
    . his familyresicendy was beind a lake in the mountains and he could reach his palace only by airoplane..
    rajneesh from rich industial millionaire family
    touched our heart
    because he was so sincere
    and i admired him to stick to his vipassana taichiwalk..
    we spent many days toghether
    waitung for osho at the asham
    where the other indian sannysins ´in charge
    didn´t expect him back..
    for us it was clear
    he had to return to his bedroom
    after being on worldtour…
    that was the time when I took sannyas
    because suddenly I felt his omnipotence
    and it filled me with awe….
    till today….

    Anand said .´But now even Miten and Premal are banned.

    In that way I appreciate the work Jayesh has done to kill all of our instincts and desire for religion.´

    as if premal and miten are priests..
    the muscians are the ones
    who transfer something of the beyond.
    . esp those WHO LOVE THE MASTER

    Jayesh is a greedy powergreedy stupid idiot
    kind of wanna be highpriest..with a BIG EGO
    who should be bannned ..
    the resort belongs to the BLESSED ONE
    so many people can come
    and drink the divine..
    of those into whom Osho has dissolved…

    music is the food of love..
    .
    the INTELLIGENZIA
    WILL CHANGE THE WORLD

    ARTISTS
    MUSICIANS DANCERS POETS MYSTICS SCIENTISTS:::

    they are all bannded ..
    the credit goes to these BASTARDS mediocre IDIOTS

    its time for them IDIOTS to SURRENDER;;;;

  274. meera says:

    keerti..
    even OSHO called the
    IDIOTS POLITICIANS IDIOTS

    a BUDDHA
    cannot create any ´bad karma´
    even if he kills someone
    it will be out of his compassion hahahahahahaaaa

  275. Anthony thompson says:

    Meera., you say “the INTELLIGENZIA
    WILL CHANGE THE WORLD

    ARTISTS
    MUSICIANS DANCERS POETS MYSTICS SCIENTISTS:::”

    I think you are misunderstanding your master. The word “intelligentsia” refers to an elite of intellectuals dedicated to the dissemination of thought.
    That is scientists, philosophers,

  276. Anthony thompson says:

    Dancers, poets and musicians are thought to be “artists” not part of the intelligentsia.
    Mystics on the other hand to do not fit to either category.

    See what happens for hanging out in Goa for 10 years instead of listening to osho.: you hear a couple of words and you understand what you want… perhaps you even thought you were part of the intelligentsia… that would have been good!!

  277. shantam prem says:

    “the INTELLIGENZIA
    WILL CHANGE THE WORLD

    Or
    We need only 200 enlightened people to change the world.

    and if don´t change within a certain period, blah blah blah will happen. Paris Hilton will become pregnant, Obama will shift to Kenya, Karachi will become twin city to Mumbai and Our very Own Jayesh will be appointed as special consultant to Pope the Benedict.

    I wonder why people are so interested to change the world.

    Why cann´t every individual and the affiliated organisations find their own G Spot.

    May be i can coin a new word. E SPOT, The point of Enlightenment within.

  278. meera says:

    shantam

    WE ARE THE ONES
    AND

    W E

    ARE THE PEOPLE

    may be anthony :::you have not the slightest idea of

    WHO

    OSHO IS!!!!!!

    Watch here:


    The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

    [Final Fantasy]

    Somewhere there’s speaking
    It’s already coming in
    Oh and it’s rising at the back of your mind
    You never could get it
    Unless you were fed it
    Now you’re here and you don’t know why

    But under skinned knees and the skid marks
    Past the places where you used to learn
    You howl and listen
    Listen and wait for
    Echoes of angels who won’t return

    He’s everything you want
    He’s everything you need
    He’s everything inside of you
    That you wish you could be
    He says all the right things
    At exactly the right time
    But he means nothing to you
    And you don’t know why

    You’re waiting for someone
    To put you together
    You’re waiting for someone to push you away
    There’s always another wound to discover
    There’s always something more you wish he’d say

    He’s everything you want
    He’s everything you need
    He’s everything inside of you
    That you wish you could be
    He says all the right things
    At exactly the right time
    But he means nothing to you
    And you don’t know why

    But you’ll just sit tight
    And watch it unwind
    It’s only what you’re asking for
    And you’ll be just fine
    With all of your time
    It’s only what you’re waiting for

    Out of the island
    Into the highway
    Past the places where you might have turned
    You never did notice
    But you still hide away
    Anger of angels who won’t return

    He’s everything you want
    He’s everything you need
    He’s everything inside of you
    That you wish you could be
    He says all the right things
    At exactly the right time
    But he means nothing to you
    And you don’t know why

    I am everything you want
    I am everything you need
    I am everything inside of you
    That you wish you could be
    I say all the right things
    At exactly the right time
    But I mean nothing to you and I don’t know why
    And I don’t know
    Why
    Why
    I don’t know

  279. Anand says:

    Meera. I am against all banning for political reasons. Sorry my language was not clear.

    Miten and Premal, Milarepa, Prem Joshua were being banned to play in the resort because they also performed at Neelam’s place. That is very absurd!
    Satya and Pari are as far as I know not Osho sannyasins.

    Miten and Premal are entertainers and can give you some nice 2 hours of mantra induced sleepiness, not more.

    I agree with Anthony, 10 years in Goa might not be the best place or learning, but if you were happy there Meera, great for you. If you like Swami Rajneesh,
    great too. I still think he is a complete FAKE and I met him in Pune 2 and looked at his videos. But everyone gets the guru they deserve or are happy with.

    Anthony, we got at the end at least for now: a Pune resort situation without kirtan and devotional activities. Ok for me and Shanti. Plus we also got the
    Dehli/ Dharamsala centers for the more traditional Indian approach and interpretation of Osho.

    Kind of a split and not ideal for everybody. The problems I see with Pune are more related to its location in the city center: Indian pollution, noise, clean water, security, accommodations …. very dependable on bringing Western visitors from Mumbai airport to city center of Pune.

    But..we went through tsunami, Mumbai terror attacks, swine flu and now David Heagon.. what is next?

  280. meera says:

    Anand
    come to think of it you must be a FAKE

    not only I lived in Goa but in Poona as well
    I had two places at the same time…

    while you were sleeping in the ashram
    lalled by lallabys

    anthony :

    My idea of an academy is of

    creative science

    which will consciously avoid anything
    that destroys life
    and will seek and search only
    for that which enhances life.
    This academy cannot be only of science
    because science
    is only a part of human reality.
    The academy has to be comprehensive,
    it has to be for

    creativity,

    for art,

    for consciousness;

    ………..A totally new kind of education is needed in the world where fundamentally everybody is introduced into the silences of the heart
    – in other words into meditations –

    ……..It is only the flowering of consciousness within you that prevents you from destruction.

    And that gives you a tremendous urge to create –
    to create more beauty in the world,
    to create more comfort in the world.
    That’s why I include
    art
    as the second part of the academy.

    Art
    is a conscious effort
    to create beauty,
    to discover beauty,
    to make your life more joyful
    to teach you to dance,
    to celebrate

    OSHO

  281. shantam prem says:

    (So I am moving on and not clinging to the past experience. For me it would also be fine to drop the maroon robes, the white robes, the aids tests:Anand )

    Indian pollution, noise, clean water, security, accommodations …. very dependable on bringing Western visitors from Mumbai airport to city center of Pune.

    Anand,
    Why not simply drop the idea of Poona at all.
    Is America so barren, so infertile, so dry and heartless that you guys need Poona?

    Meditation techniques as it is claimed are VEERY VEERY SCIENTIFIC….when some British doctor says the same,..they even become REALLY REALLY scientific, than why the people in the last leg of their life are still hankering about Poona.

    If people put their money where there mouth is, it will be quite a graceful way to create Osho Meditation Resort at the banks of river Mississippi.
    It is time for the prodigal children to give something back to their mother land, what they have achieved or lost at the feet of some Indian Guru.

    Tell your people, to show some dignity, some integrity of the being. I think it will not be difficult to attract 2-300 people for Kundalini and evening meeting, when so many Osho books are being offered through main stream book channels.
    May be like Keerti, Parmod can make a whirl wind meditation camp tour all over the states. Why Arun should go to Canada, why not Yogendra younger brother of Jayesh conducts, 3 days Osho scientific meditation camp at Toronto, Edmonton, Vancouver.

    And For Anthony, Butter Garlic Nann is available in all most all the major cities of America. Create the mileu, the magic.

  282. frank says:

    you are right shantam.

    indian ashram,whether you call it resort or not is an indian cultural creation.
    its function is in the context of indian culture.
    indian people are happy as larry in these places,and as tony points out,they will sooner doubt the holiness of their master than the vaildity of their devotional actions .
    that is their culturally conditioned trip.
    no problem.everyone has to be someone before considering becoming no one!!

    meditation is even more simple than butter nan.
    vipassana is more of a plain roti,really.
    easy to learn.easy to eat.

    amazing that there are coming religious conflicts about it…….

  283. Anand says:

    I understand Shantam, you like to have the old ashram back from the years you were there. In my opinion that will never happen, Jayesh or no Jayesh.

    About Osho in the US: another failed dream, but who knows the future is open.
    For me still the best place to live, although Freiburg and the Black Forest are great too.

    I found this online:

    The End of Spiritual Seeking

    When the end of seeking occurs the need and impulse to acquire further ‘answers’ dissolves.

    When the end of spiritual searching occurs the urge to read more spiritual books, go to more satsangs, go to more retreats, find exciting new teachers or get the latest from a particular teacher, is not there any more.

    You will know when the end of seeking occurs. This one is not difficult.

    You know that it has ended. You notice that you are not seeking any more.

    It is not like trying to work out whether you are enlightened, or self-realized, or if you have become ‘awake’.

    To know that you have stopped seeking, you do not have to read a book or ask someone if it has happened.

    It is simple and it is obvious.

    There are no esoteric concepts to deal with. Not something you can take as an achievement.

    The end of spiritual seeking occurs when you have realized what you have been looking for has been there all along.

    The end of seeking occurs when you have realized that you are not the one you thought you were.

    But maybe, the first thing you notice, some time later, is that the seeking has ended.

    And the suffering has ended too.

  284. shantam prem says:

    I understand Shantam, you like to have the old ashram back from the years you were there. In my opinion that will never happen.

    No Anand dear, For me you can even open an whore house or ware house at 17, Koregaon Park Pune. My digestibility of change is quite strong, thanks to Osho and the inbuilt resiliance one develops in a country like India; captured, colonised and brutalised by outsiders and insiders.

    I think you know too, the differecne between changes happens and change imposed.

    Just read one article about Dubai….and i thought about our Poona.

    “Fakery and chutzpah, ruthlessness and greed, made an amazing emirate and a £30-million human brand. Both dazzled, confused and glinted with moral ambiguity. The world approved of neither, but at least they were better than the alternative.
    Dubai attracted trafficked hookers, tax-dodging expat chancers and money launderers, all tended by bonded labour Filipina maids. An autocracy with no voters, no dissent, a Sharia regime that could abruptly forget its liberal welcome and get medieval on your ass if you got frisky on a beach or just ran up a credit-card debt.”

    Without malice towards anyone, in general,
    As long as one is blinded by the hegemony of an individual or group of individuals, what to say end of seeking, even it has not started yet.

  285. shantam prem says:

    and also Anand, i was not targeting you personally but to those who brought forward the line of thinking prevelent in the autocratic state called Osho Resort.
    I confess this too that may be i was in poona, i would have also towed their line of actions. To protect one´s needs, compromises are every day event and as a Osho listeners, we have become such experts to hide our human weeknesses under the robes of principles and values-
    flowing with the river,
    letting go of the past….
    If you don´t fight with life, life simply takes you on its shoulders…

  286. shantam prem says:

    Any way, Anand…conflicting views if taken with wonder in eyes also become an arch of friendliness.
    SO ..where i can see your face?

  287. Prem Abhay says:

    Keerti I am wondering what the actions of all the tyrants throughout history have done to the Akashic Records?

    My e-mail is premabhay@hotmail.com

    You are welcome to send me a mail, however you are also most welcome to offend Frank (and possibly me) by sharing the quote with everyone here.

    I condone the right to celebrate. I condone the right to peaceful protest. What I consider to be utterly vulgar is violence towards those who exercise these rights. I also condone the exercise of the right to self-defence.

    For those who argue that Jayesh and Amrito are trying to take (or keep) the religion out of Osho, I ask that you look deeply into these two characters and what they do and say and write. There is a deeply religious thread in their characters and their approach. You can call it JA Zen & Co-conspirators if you like.

    Yahoo
    Abhay

  288. shantam prem says:

    Try try again till union is strength becomes reality…
    Keerti Swami,
    Why not Neelam sends an invitation to Jayesh and Amrito for a nice weekend at Nisarga. We need to go on creating the bridges… We simply cannot allow the power of sannyas hugs to fade away like seasonal fashion.

    And if they accept the invitation, it is suggested because of human psychology, Let Tathagat goes away for few days.


    The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

  289. Anand says:

    Shantam Prem, basically I am in total agreement with you about the situation in the resort (imposed etc./ dictatorship). I just see change in the near future as hopeless….sorry about that. From my day one in Pune there were people in charge very hard to digest (Deeksha, Sheela etc).

    And now try to have a conversation with Amrito, or Jayesh (if you see him).
    I prefer to enjoy my time in the resort and meditate and meet my friends.

    But I support your crusade and the support of others like Abhay.

    Time for me to take some time off…..

  290. Beloveds
    Meeten and Premal never came to perform at Neelam’s place. Neelam’s place does not have any big auditorium for such performances. So they were never invited. Neither Joshua performed there.

    And about Indians or Westetrn touching feets of the master, both Indians and Westerners did that, and Westerners did something similar to that. In Pune One Osho did emphasise Surrender as in the case of Somendra, one of the most popular therapists of that time: Somendra wrote a letter to Osho to ask for forgiveness. Here’s a concluding part of his letter:

    “I love you with all my heart and will try to be more and more aware of the fear that keeps me from you and that oneness of love.
    Namaste. And I touch your sweet feet.
    Somendra.”

    (Osho continues: “He had gone astray, but he is back. And when he really comes physically back, give him a good welcome. Celebrate his coming!
    Jesus talks about the prodigal son. A man had two sons. One was very faithful to the father, utterly devoted to the father. The other was a problem. He was always creating trouble. Finally the father decided — he was getting old — to divide the property and separate the two sons. The elder one remained with him and the younger one the moment he got the money, left the father, left the village, went to the big city, spent all the money in gambling, in drinking, with the prostitutes.
    Within a few years all was lost; he became a beggar. He had come as a rich man and now he was begging. One day while he was begging, suddenly he was reminded, “Why can’t I go back to my father? At least he can accept me as a servant. He has many servants, my brother has many servants. I am no more a worthy son — that I cannot claim, ‘Accept me back as a son’ — but I can go and beg, ‘Accept me as a servant.’ At least that will be far better than begging from strangers and getting insulted again and again, humiliated.”
    He sent a message, “I am coming home.” He sent a message, “Accept me just as a servant. I am no more worthy to be accepted as a son.”)
    (Guida Spirituale, Chapter #16)

    Another Letter from Somendra, previous day:

    Just a few days ago I talked about Somendra. Yesterday I received his letter. He says, “Yes, Osho, it has happened to me that now I can be a Master on my own. There is no need of having a Master — although I don’t know what enlightenment is. So I dropped the mala.

    “But one day, after eight or ten days working in the group, such great energy happened that I wanted to stand up, but I went on falling. Something strange was happening, and suddenly I heard some voice saying ‘Put the mala back.’”

    He must have become frightened. “What was happening?” He must have become frightened. He does not write about fear, that he could not get up. He was doing some energy work on people in a group and he fell on the floor rested on the floor, tried to get up and could not get up so he asked his assistant. Thrice he heard the voice. That is nothing but his own unconscious, because I have not spoken to him. He thinks he has heard my voice, “Bring the mala back! Put it on again!” It was just out of fear, he must have become frightened of what was happening. It was going beyond his control; he could not control even his own energy. So he asked the assistant, “Find my mala — it is somewhere in the bag.” The mala was brought, and then he felt calm and quiet and the energy settled.
    But still something of that experience has left a mark on him. Now he is wearing the mala again and saying to people, “I am a sannyasin,” talking about me, has forgotten about his being a Master; but he ends the letter — it must be a hangover — “With great gratitude I touch your hand.” Not feet — “your hand”! This is a hangover! Now some day he will get into trouble again. Then he will write, “I touch your feet, Osho, I heard the voice.”

    He says he knows nothing about enlightenment. Then how you can be a Master if you don’t know anything about enlightenment? But these ego trips are bound to happen to many people.

    (Guida Spirituale, Chapter #15)

  291. Beloved Abhay, Here’s the story:

    Guru Nanak travelled far and wide. He taught the people the right ways of living. Once he was travelling through Bengal in India. Bhai Bala and Bhai Mardana were also with the Guru. They walked from village to village on foot. They were very hungry and tired. They wanted some food and rest. They could go no further so they went to a village to stay for the night. Near the village they met some people. The Guru stopped and said, “Dear sir, we are travellers. We have been walking for a long time. Now we are hungry and tired. Can you give us some food to eat and a room to sleep for the night?”

    “Go away. We don’t care for any traveller,” replied the people very rudely.

    They asked many people but everybody in the village was rude and unkind to them. They had to spend the night outside. They also went to sleep hungry.

    They got up early in the morning and sang hymns They prayed to God. After the prayer Guru Nanak said, “May these people stay here in this village for ever.”

    They set out on their journey once again. Bhai Mardana was very upset. He was very angry with the people of the village. He did not like the Guru’s blessing for the bad people. But he did not say anything.

    Next day they came to another village. The people of that village were very good. They welcomed everyone who came to their village. They were very kind to Guru Nanak and his friends. They served them good food with loving care. They gave them nice beds to sleep in for the night. Next morning when they got up Guru Nanak said to his friends, “Let us pray.” So they prayed to God for the good of all. After the prayer Guru Nanak said, “May the people of this village scatter.”

    Mardana felt very upset once again. He said to the Guru, “Lord, I cannot understand your wish. You wish the good people to scatter away and the unkind people to stay happily in one place. You curse the good but you bless the bad.”

    Guru Nanak said, “Listen to me, dear Mardana, I have not cursed the good people. I wish these good people to scatter and live in other parts of the world. Wherever they go, they will make the people good. If there are more good people, the world will be happier. The bad people of the other village are good-for-nothing. They will make other people rude and unkind wherever they go. It is therefore better if they stay in their own village.”

    Mardana was not upset now He was happy. The Guru’s wish was clear to him. Let us be kind and gentle to other people and please our Lord.
    __________________

  292. frank says:

    keerti,
    we are good they are bad?
    no wonder you are embroiled in religious power struggles.

  293. shantam prem says:

    We are good and they are bad, kind of logic solves no conflict.
    Both think in the same way.

    Somewhere after seeing the drama at Pune, i think it was a divine prudence that Rajneeshpuram could not get the roots and foundations in America.

    Many western became sannyasins because the stories of power struggle in the church, nerved them.
    Prayers seemed to be just not working. They went for a better alternative search and ended up again in the same soup but in a different pot.
    Thousands time bigger property, more money, more power and THE GUNS; Master dies and control game unfolds. Vegetarian lions having the field day.

    Imagine the scenario; many dead, many in the orange jumping suits and every book sold than would have the blood drops over them.
    End of the chapter!

    Jesus saved his disillusioned children, from a big tragedy.

  294. Frank
    For me No Good or Bad.
    Dalai Lama out of Tibet–proved good for the world.
    Some people banned from Resort could contribute to Osho’s work something positive and creative–because they did not remain confined to one place.
    Every one could derive any meaning from this story or any other story.

  295. shantam prem says:

    I think it was 1988.
    Dr. Amrito, as per His master´s voice, wrote a book and presided over an organisation, ” International Academy of creative arts, science and consciousness.”
    Preamble was that political mind gets control over everything, the creative people, the scientist, artists etc see their best getting mutated by the people with authority.
    We will provide better alternatives and one of them is complete freedom of expressions and your signatures over your creation, kind of stuff.

    20 years later
    No comments !!

  296. Chinmaya says:

    Dear Shantam,

    Your story as enumerated above, of Guru Nanak is very well said and relevant to the context, and has very beautiful been explained by Osho in his discourses. Please keep writing such nice anecdotes. Your intellect level is par excellent and how do you manage in Germany. Bravo.

    Luv

  297. frank says:

    a dodgy sufi story
    by
    frank badmash

    it came to pass that the great sage keerti was thrown from his spiritual home.
    he became the delhi lama and travelled the world with his disciples,tossing osho quotes far and wide.
    one day,in cyberspace,the delhi lama came to a village inhabited by rude and insulting jackasses and tosspots.
    “oooh,dont go there” said his disciples.
    but he did.
    and all manner of abuse was showered on him:
    “living in the past”,”evangelical” “marble kisser”,”politcal”,”tosser” and so on.
    “we told you so,” said his disciples “these guys are badass news and seriously irritating”
    then,one of the jackass number,faruk stepped forward and spake:
    “is the sand an irritant to the oyster?
    without it the pearl would remain just a sludge
    with it ,the oyster becomes a pearl of great value”

    it is said that they were all instantly enlightened.

  298. shantam prem says:

    Amen

    One day the congregational spinster is so moved by the sermon that she puts in $1000. The preacher is so excited, he calls out, “Whoever put in the $1000 can have the choice of three hymns>” The spinster stands, and points to the eligible bachelors “I’ll take him, him and him.”

  299. meera says:

    HAHAHAHAAAAAAAA

  300. meera says:

    THEISTS, ATHEISTS, BOTH ARE VICTIMS. The really religious person has nothing to do with the Bible or the Koran or the Bhagavad Gita.

    THE REALLY RELIGIOUS PERSON HAS A DEEP COMMUNION WITH EXISTENCE. He can say YES to a rose flower, he can say YES to the stars, he can say YES to people, he can say YES to his own being, to his own desires. He can say YES to whatsoever life brings to him, HE IS A YEA-SAYER. And in this yea-saying is contained the essential prayer.

    The last words of Jesus on earth were: “Thy kingdom come, thy will be done. Amen.”

    Do you know this word “amen”, what it means? It simply means “Yes, Lord, yes. Let thy will be done. Don’t listen to what I say, I am ignorant. Don’t listen to what I desire, my desires are stupid — bound to be so. Go on doing whatsoever you feel right — go on doing it in spite of me.” That is the meaning of the word “amen”.

    OSHO
    The Book of Wisdom
    Ch #7: Learning the knack
    am in Buddha Hall

  301. garimo says:

    I’m thinking Sufis don’t keep swine, so are they really an accurate judge of the value of pearl tossing?

    So many people listening to the wisdom of the sand… who’s listening the poor oysters?

  302. Prem Abhay says:

    Keerti the story is beautiful. The problem however with using other people’s stories, even Osho stories, is that they can at best fit roughly in relevance. The villagers in Koregaon Park Cashram are digging a ditch. That would be fine enough if the ditch was for themselves only. Unfortunately the ditch has a nice big inviting sign called Welcome to Osho-land. Many unsuspecting travellers fall into the ditch. Meanwhile the people who tell great stories of Osho also send people to Koregaon Park and the big ditch – unknowingly or otherwise. So yes I understand the story, but it is missing a little in applicability. Also, I am not so uncompassionate as to wish that people remain deep in the ditch.

    As for oysters in the sand, I would only ask Guru Faranik why it is that when I opened up the oyster I found a perfectly formed ball of sand. I inquired from the seller why I payed so much for such a pitiful irony. The seller said that the pearl called Osho was still at the bottom of the ocean. The seller laughed and said she was a secret agent for Osho trying to get me to become transformed into the big fish. This I found very amusing.

    Yahoo
    Abhay

  303. meera says:

    JUST DANCE::::::::::::

    “They have no wish
    for happiness at all,
    walking against the wind.”

    THE BAULS SAY that the real seekers have no wish for happiness at all, walking against the wind. They simply float with life. They don’t ask anything from life, they simply receive.

    WHATSOEVER LIFE GIVES, THEY ENJOY, THEY DELIGHT IN IT, BUT THEIR DEMAND HAS CEASED. They don’t swim, and they never swim against the stream; they simply float with the stream. That’s what surrender is.

    There is a beautiful song…
    “Oh cruelly eager, are you going to fry on fire your heart’s flower-bud?
    Are you going to force it to blossom and let the scent escape without biding your time?
    Look at my master, God, eternally opening the buds to bloom, but never in a hurry.
    You are dependent on the hours of the day because of your terrifying greed.
    What else can you do?
    Listen to the Beloved’s appeal, and do not hurt the master at heart.
    The stream spontaneously flows, lost in itself listening to his words, O my eager one.”

    The Bauls say DON’T TRY TO FORCE ANYTHING, LET LIFE BE A DEEP “LET-GO”. See God opening millions of flowers every day without forcing the buds — waiting, never in a hurry, giving their time to them.

    The Bauls say: EVERYTHING HAPPENS AT ITS RIGHT TIME, EVERYTHING HAPPENS IN ITS OWN SEASON. Wait, don’t be impatient, don’t be in a hurry.

    All hurry is greed, and all hurry is a subtle fight. THAT WHICH IS GOING TO HAPPEN WILL HAPPEN. Whenever it is going to happen, it will happen. You need not fight existence. You can surrender, you can trust.

    This has to be understood. IF THIS BECOMES PART OF YOUR INNER CLIMATE, IT WILL GIVE YOU TREMENDOUS JOY. Then you are no longer proposing anything, and then nobody can frustrate you. You don’t have any plan and you don’t have any goal. You are not going somewhere, you have simply left yourself into His hands, and He takes you wherever He wants.

    “THY KINGDOM COME. THY WILL BE DONE…” Let His will be done: that is the Bauls’ method. It is of surrender and love and trust. The Baul is not a yogi, certainly not a Hatha yogi; the Baul is a lover, a devotee. He trusts that God is taking him into some unknown world — but it must be beautiful because He is taking. THE RIVER IS GOING TO THE OCEAN — it must be going, because it is His river. This childlike trust is his only method.

    OSHO
    The Beloved
    Vol 2, Ch #7: They kill lust with lust

  304. meera says:

    let us trust that the people ´in charge´
    will get Oshos message
    IN TIME

    they will surrender
    like the whole world will
    surrender IN TIME

    the resort will become an energypool for the INTELLIGENZIA

    instead of a tourist resort

    THE INTELLIGENZIA
    who will rule the world

    ARTISTS
    SCIENTISTS
    MUSICIANS
    PAINTERS
    SCULTURERS
    POETS
    MYSTICS

    only then meaningful gatherings are possible
    a network of all those people who wanna work together
    worldwide

    the resort will become a headquarter
    which works for those issues
    raising funds for projects…
    inviting the ´cream of society´
    who has done research in human growth

    those poeple will come
    and get a taste of meditation
    of the ´mystic..
    thy will participate in
    music dance painting gardening
    and work on their projects
    with a relaxed meditative consciousness
    with the intention
    to create communes all over the world

    this is MY vision for the coming Millenium

    2000-2012 are the MASTERYEARS

    where we go into the depth of our own consciousness
    the source..
    which is GOD …or whatever you wanna call it

  305. meera says:

    THE CHOSEN FEW

    Beloved Osho,
    In a deep embrace with you, in orgasmic play with existence, little more of you, little less of me.

    Darshan,
    THAT’S WHAT IS ALREADY HAPPENING TO YOU. Every day you are disappearing… and it is so obvious. Every day something of you is evaporating: MORE AND MORE, I AM BECOMING YOUR BEING. Soon, Darshan will not be found there at all.

    AND THAT IS THE MOMENT OF GREAT BLESSINGS… when the disciple disappears… when the disciple is only a vehicle of the Master.

    AND THE MASTER IS NOBODY EXCEPT THE WHOLE. The Master is one who is not, the Master is one who has already disappeared into God. The Master is already a hollow bamboo, and God is using him as a flute.

    When the disappearance also has happened to the disciple… THE FIRST EXPERIENCE IS THAT OF MEETING AND MERGER WITH THE MASTER… because the disciple does not know what God is, he knows only the Master. The Master is his or her God.

    ONCE THE DISCIPLE DISAPPEARS INTO THE MASTER and allows the Master to enter into the innermost core of his being, the second experience is that the Master has never been there.

    Hidden behind the Master’s hands were God’s hands, HIDDEN BEHIND THE MASTER’S WORDS WERE GOD’S MESSAGES. The Master was only a singer, singing the songs of the infinite and the eternal.

    Darshan, it is happening to you. I AM UTTERLY HAPPY WITH YOU, all my blessings are for you.

    You say: “In a deep embrace with you, in orgasmic play with existence, little more of you, little less of me.” This is happening. This will go on happening.

    YOUR PRAYER IS GOING TO BE FULFILLED IN THIS LIFE. I can guarantee only for very few people. It is very difficult to guarantee, but for Darshan I can guarantee: in this very life, it is going to be fulfilled.

    OSHO
    The Book of Wisdom
    Ch #23: Behind the Master’s hands

  306. Anthony thompson says:

    meera.- You are just psychotic… the resort will rule the world???
    the sannyasins will save the planet.???
    you just have seen way too much TV

  307. meera says:

    you cannot read Anthony

    you are a mad psychologist
    you have not the slightest glimpse of who the
    MASTER IS

    the ´resort´will not rule
    the world
    the resort is full of mediocre people

    we need the INTELLIGENZIA to rulethe world
    as I said ..

    but you will never get it…
    unless you become intelligent yourself

    by the way
    I´m not watching TV since 35 years…

  308. Anthony thompson says:

    well, you should!!ª

  309. Chinmaya says:

    GREETINGS ON THIS BEAUTIFUL DAY OF OUR MASTER…..OSHO……to all my friends.

  310. Sarmad says:

    These people I have gathered around me are here for a certain purpose. It is very easy to love me, there is no problem. It is all sweet. Love Deeksha! — then you will know what bitter means. But Deeksha is my gate; you have to enter through Deeksha. The day you have started loving Deeksha, then you will be able to come close to me, not without it.

    There are a few people who are clever — Anup is one of them — calculating, clever. They think they can have a direct relationship with me. That is not possible.

    You cannot avoid the situation that I am creating. You have to accept it.

    It is hard to accept it. That’s why it is a situation, that’s why it is a device! It is hard to swallow it — that’s what the first question was, from Sudesh. He cannot accept the organization here. If he cannot accept the organization here, howsoever he thinks that he loves me, this love is not enough.

    If you love me enough you will say yes to things that I am making around here. There must be something in them.

    You can’t see right now, you don’t have eyes.

    Sudesh says, “Things around you are not right. They are topsy-turvy.” They are managed that way by me. Passing through them, accepting them, is coming closer to me.

    That will help you to grow in trust. If you cannot grow then it is better to leave. Give your place to somebody else.

    Anup asks me again and again why I don’t hit him. You have to be worthy of it. The hit is not cheap, it is costly. I don’t go on hitting everybody and anybody. I hit only when I see that now the layer is so thin, just a small hit and the clouds will disappear.

    Enlightenment can happen any place, can happen any moment. You just have to allow it to happen. It is not a question of place and time, it is a question of your allowing it.
    ………………………………………………………………………….

    Ah Osho, those …revolving doors!
    Deekshas and Sheelas, big doors, small doors, outer doors, inner doors… I had such urge to enter that I made a 180 degree turn going through them… That’s how I found You!

    …All those doors, all those devices! Thank YOU all for been there for me.

  311. Sarmad says:

    What is love?

    I have heard that there was once an ancient and majestic tree, with branches spreading out towards the sky. When it was in a flowering mood, butterflies of all shapes, colors and sizes danced around it. When it grew blossoms and bore fruit, birds from far lands came and sang in it. The branches, like outstretched hands, blessed all who came and sat in their shade. A small boy used to come and play under it, and the big tree developed an affection for the small boy.

    Love between big and small is possible, if the big is not aware that it is big. The tree did not know it was big; only man has that kind of knowledge. The big always has the ego as its prime concern, but for love, nobody is big or small. Love embraces whomsoever comes near.

    So the tree developed a love for this small boy who used to come to play near it. Its branches were high, but it bent and bowed them down so that he might pluck its flowers and pick its fruit. Love is ever ready to bow; the ego is never ready to bend. If you approach the ego, its branches will stretch upwards even more; it will stiffen so you cannot reach it.

    The playful child came, and the tree bowed its branches. The tree was ver y pleased when the child plucked some flowers; its entire being was filled with the joy of love. Love is always happy when it can give something; the ego is always happy when it can take.

    The boy grew. Sometimes he slept on the tree’s lap, sometimes he ate its fruit, and sometimes he wore a crown of the tree’s flowers and acted like a jungle king. One becomes like a king when the flowers of love are there, but one becomes poor and miserable when the thorns of the ego are present. To see the boy wearing a crown of flowers and dancing about filled the tree with joy. It nodded in love; it sang in the breeze. The boy grew even more. He began to climb the tree to swing on its branches. The tree felt very happy when the boy rested on its branches. Love is happy when it gives comfort to someone; the ego is only happy when it gives discomfort.

    With the passage of time the burden of other duties came to the boy. Ambition grew; he had exams to pass; he had friends to chat with and to wander about with, so he did not come often. But the tree waited anxiously for him to come. It called from its soul, ”Come. Come. I am waiting for you.” Love waits day and night. And the tree waited. The tree felt sad when the boy did not come. Love is sad when it cannot share; love is sad when it cannot give. Love is grateful when it can share. When it can surrender, totally, love is the happiest.

    As he grew, the boy came less and less to the tree. The man who becomes big, whose ambitions grow, finds less and less time for love. The boy was now engrossed in worldly affairs.

    One day, while he was passing by, the tree said to him, ”I wait for you but you do not come. I expect you daily.”

    The boy said, ”What do you have? Why should I come to you? Have you any money? I am looking for money.” The ego is always motivated. Only if there is some pur pose to be served will the ego come. But love is motiveless. Love is its own reward.

    The star tled tree said, ”You will come only if I give something?” That which withholds is not love. The ego amasses, but love gives unconditionally. ”We don’t have that sickness, and we are joyful,” the tree said. ”Flowers bloom on us. Many fruits grow on us. We give soothing shade. We dance in the breeze, and sing songs. Innocent birds hop on our branches and chir p even though we don’t have any money. The day we get involved with money, we will have to go to the temples like you weak men do, to learn how to obtain peace, to learn how to find love. No, we do not have any need for money.”

    The boy said, ”Then why should I come to you? I will go where there is money. I need money.” The ego asks for money because it needs power.

    The tree thought for a while and said, ”Don’t go anywhere else, my dear. Pick my fruit and sell it. You will get money that way.”

    The boy brightened immediately. He climbed up and picked all the tree’s fruit; even the unripe ones were shaken down. The tree felt happy, even though some twigs and branches were broken, even though some of its leaves had fallen to the ground. Getting broken also makes love happy, but even after getting, the ego is not happy. The ego always desires more. The tree didn’t notice that the boy hadn’t even once looked back to thank him. It had had its thanks when the boy accepted the offer to pick and sell its fruit.

    The boy did not come back for a long time. Now he had money and he was busy making more money from that money. He had forgotten all about the tree. Years passed. The tree was sad. It yearned for the boy’s return – like a mother whose breasts are filled with milk but whose son is lost. Her whole being craves for her son; she searches madly for her son so he can come to lighten her. Such was the inner cr y of that tree. Its entire being was in agony.

    After many years, now an adult, the boy came to the tree.

    The tree said, ”Come, my boy. Come embrace me.”

    The man said, ”Stop that sentimentality. That was a childhood thing. I am not a child any more.” The ego sees love as madness, as a childish fantasy.

    But the tree invited him: ”Come, swing on my branches. Come dance. Come play with me.”

    The man said, ”Stop all this useless talk! I need to build a house. Can you give me a house?”

    The tree exclaimed: ”A house! I am without a house.” Only men live in houses. Nobody else lives in a house but man. And do you notice his condition after his confinement among four walls? The bigger his buildings, the smaller man becomes. ”We do not stay in houses, but you can cut and take away my branches – and then you may be able to build a house.”

    Without wasting any time, the man brought an axe and severed all the branches of the tree. Now the tree was just a bare trunk. But love cares not for such things – even if its limbs are severed for the loved one. Love is giving; love is ever ready to give.

    The man didn’t even bother to thank the tree. He built his house. And the days flew into years.

    The trunk waited and waited. It wanted to call for him, but it had neither branches nor leaves to give it strength. The wind blew by, but it couldn’t even manage to give the wind a message. And still its soul resounded with one prayer only: ”Come. Come, my dear. Come.” But nothing happened.

    Time passed and the man had now become old. Once he was passing by and he came and stood by the tree.

    The tree asked, ”What else can I do for you? You have come after a very, very long time.”

    The old man said, ”What else can you do for me? I want to go to distant lands to earn more money. I need a boat, to travel.”

    Cheerfully, the tree said, ”But that’s no problem, my love. Cut my trunk, and make a boat from it. I would be so very happy if I could help you go to faraway lands to earn money. But, please remember, I will always be awaiting your return.”

    The man brought a saw, cut down the trunk, made a boat and sailed away.

    Now the tree is a small stump. And it waits for its loved one to return. It waits and it waits and it waits. The man will never return; the ego only goes where there is something to gain and now the tree has nothing, absolutely nothing to offer. The ego does not go where there is nothing to gain. The ego is an eternal beggar, in a continuous state of demand, and love is charity. Love is a king, an emperor! Is there any greater king than love?

    I was resting near that stump one night. It whispered to me, ”That friend of mine has not come back yet. I am very worried in case he might have drowned, or in case he might be lost. He may be lost in one of those faraway countries. He might not even be alive any more. How I wish for news of him! As I near the end of my life, I would be satisfied with some news of him at least. Then I could die happily. But he would not come even if I could call him. I have nothing left to give and he only understands the language of taking.”

    The ego only understands the language of taking; the language of giving is love.

    I cannot say anything more than that. Moreover, there is nothing more to be said than this: if life can become like that tree, spreading its branches far and wide so that one and all can take shelter in its shade, then we will understand what love is. There are no scriptures, no charts, no dictionaries for love. There is no set of principles for love.

    I wondered what I could say about love! Love is so difficult to describe. Love is just there. You could probably see it in my eyes if you came up and looked into them. I wonder if you can feel it as my arms spread in an embrace.

    Love.

    What is love?

    If love is not felt in my eyes, in my arms, in my silence, then it can never be realized from my words.

    I am grateful for your patient hearing. And finally, I bow to the Supreme seated in all of us.

    Please accept my respects.

    ~OSHO~

  312. Hi, a couple years after the fact someone showed me this so I thought I would write a note as I am mentioned in this thread.

    I lived at Devadeep in Wshington DC for a few years and then at the Ranch, my mom was in the Reagan cabinet and UN amb. but there was NO DEAL of the sort mentioned. One can know this because it was, in fact, on the nightly news that I was a sanyasin so there could be nothing to hide.

    I benefited deeply from Osho and love him with all my heart to this day. I have never forsaken or turned my back on him. I have followed my own path … as he taught and every step I have found that his words and presence were alive as beauty and freedom.

    I am now teaching within the Nyingma tradition of Vajrayana Buddhism, yes, but this is not “against” Osho in any way. As to the silliness about me above …. I was recognized as a ‘tulku’ within the Nyingma lineage not the Dalai Lama’s lineage … there is a lot of politics between lineages and non of it is important. Such recognitions mean nothing … often they are pure politics themselves, but even when they are not it is absurdity to trust except in your own careful evaluation.

    WHoever the above people are please understand the following 1. I feel only benefited by Osho and am in no way “against” him. 2. I was not a”plant” by reagan or a secret double reverse agent of any sort … I was a seeker who found and fell in love with his Guru, that was and still is all.

    There is so much beauty truth goodness love wisdom ….. inside and out … go and find it.