As the 25th aniversary of Osho’s death approaches on January 19th, I observe, that on Sannyasnews, and elsewhere, there are many stories of Osho´s Jabalpur days, and Poona one, — and Rajneeshpuram. I myself am not so interested in these.
However what I consider to be the final and most telling phase of Osho´s work (in Pune, 1987 to his death), is untagged and unnoticed. There is much more discussion about those earlier phases of Osho’s work, both here, and anywhere else that seems to allow discussion. Yet, amazingly the period to which I refer is the time when Osho incorporated maximum changes in the final picture of His work. This was witnessed and participated in by thousands and thousands. Where are these thousands now?
Buddha Hall at the time of which Shantam speaks
In a tired, sick and poisoned body, Osho arrived in Pune in 1987, and despite struggling with his body’s difficulties, - day in, day out, poured energy to and on His people.
Tens of thousands participated in that wonderful and present energy dance of the Master with his disciples.
Maybe there are a few from these thousands who can come forward to share the experience, their insights, and how that energy can be used to keep the fire burning for the generation of seekers to come.
Would it not be interesting to know, for example, how you felt, when Osho dropped the famous name Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, and the weeks leading to the disciples choice of OSHO.
I am reminded that Rajneesh was the name given to him by his parents, and that Acharya was simply a social Title. “Bhagwan Shree”, he most probably insisted on for himself, but the final name of Osho was the Disciples´s choice. On this the Master merged with his disciples – and in so doing he gave control to his disciples. For me, now it is up to you, whether to keep the work intact or do what so ever. The very word, OSHO, is a call of the disciples to the Master.
I feel, those thousands of people from around the world who were pulled towards Osho at that time got a special privilege from existence, and therefore what follows is a kind of sacred duty to share their experiences – but there is precious little written material on this stage of Osho’s work.
So dear friends, whether it was for a day or a week or a month or year you were in OSHO’s Buddhafield at that time, please share your reflections.
Shantam Prem
Shantam Prem,
Rather than look backwards at the events of Poona 2, which I, incidentally, was part of, in the sense that was where I first met Osho, (although I’d been fascinated by him for many years before), I wonder what your fascination is truly about? Why, if you are, are you so concerned with events so many years ago? What is stopping you from moving on?
Surely the message he left us was to take his teaching into our individual lives, there was never a sense for me that I was part of any group, or cult. Even if he sometimes spoke of buddhafields or some shared experience, his teaching was foremost one of assisting individuals to what he called enlightenment or self-realisation.
Perhaps he was confused occasionally by a hope that ‘together’ we could work at some energetic level, but at the end of the day, his message was for the individual. And his teaching affected and changed me, as an individual. It also changed other individuals.
He also was very clear that once he died we were not to create a religion but to move on as and when we felt the urge. Which I did, even before he died. I felt no guilt or concern about this. I’d taken his teaching into myself and moved on. This feels natural, organic even. Once a lesson has been learned, move on, don’t get stuck.
I loved and respected Osho, but time and life moves on. Poona was never a buddhafield for me. It’s a fanciful idea, sentimentalising the master, when Osho, as he always said, was in truth, just “an ordinary man”. A beautiful man, but not without failings. He made mistakes, learning from some, perhaps getting stuck himself in believing himself to be infallible at other times.
You asked us to comment on what we felt about his name change from Rajneesh to Bhagwan to Osho. I felt it to be ridiculous. He became a parody of the eastern master, believing himself to be something he wasn’t.
This doesn’t affect the essence of his teaching, but it does appear to have confused him and some of his disciples; because they got lost in emotionalising and sentimentalising the Master, rather than listening to the man.
The master never “merged with his disciples” – where in your experience have you ever “merged” with anyone?
It is beautiful that you loved Osho, and that you learned from him.
Ask yourself what is it that keeps you so focused on the past? Why are you so concerned with his legacy, rather than just dealing with this moment, this time, Now?
Absolutely spot on, you’ve nailed it, Simond, several key points put together, clear as a bell – great post.
Yet despite all that you got from Osho, and that you moved on. (That’s about the sixth time you’ve felt the need to make sure we know that). You just sound like a Christian.
Since Osho left the body I never talk about anybody being “dead”. I understood that it is just the body that dies…And I love to say, “LEAVING THE BODY”.
Also, in the death notice of ‘my’ beloved friend, in the local newspaper I talked, of course in Dutch, about him having left his body. And it was good to realize that many of the villagers liked this expression and they understood.
My request is to start using, in talking/writing, especially re Osho, but preferably re everybody, ‘leaving the body’.
Enjoying your response; Simond, this early morning, while the wild winds and storms are coming to a temporary rest just now-here.
I feel it as good ´medicine´ what you posted, a treat for verbal actions-re-actions, which became quite stuck for a ´good´ while.
Hope my ´thank you letter´ will come through as my account was IT- hacked these days.
Love,
Madhu
Shame on you bastards.
You moved on and are still communicating in the name of Osho.
Is it not a pity, Satyadeva kind most proabably went to various teachers, masters and avatars like that south Indian lady? Maybe he is with the latest entrants in the market, like that least photogenic one with dry aura talking about power of now, and still trying to show his superiority as if he has moved on to the people who are deep-kneed stuck in the past.
Does not look like Satyadeva?
To me, you sound neither a loser or winner, just a spectacle.
For this reason, I am sure there are not many emotionally satisfying relations in your life. For emotionally satisfying relations, one must go into the vivid colours of various feelings, salty, sweet, as well as bitter.
Thanks to Simond and SD for clarifying Barry Long’s opinion on the matter.
Ok, Shantipants is stuck in the past – you don`t need to be enlightened or have a Phd to work that one out.
All that typical blongspiel about “emotionalising and sentimentalising” causes his followers like Simond and SD to always to try to come on super-rational and sensible, but it`s a bit plastic.
SD, you come on all rational, but what is your actual motivation to challenging Shantam, for example? Detached, unsentimental seeking for truth? Mmmm…It’s an emotional drive, obviously.
And what`s wrong with that? Get real,dude. Why always listen to that idiot in your head who thinks he`s fighting the negative emotions and then when he inevitably loses, as he always does you say, “I must try harder!”
Doh!
And Simond, if you stopped projecting your `emotionalism` onto sannyasins you might come over as something more rounded than a cardboard-cut-out, stilted, dull-as-dishwater pontificating vicar.
Frankli, I must touch your feet, man!
And I see you are wearing two different coloured socks! lols
My younger son wears socks like this.
It melts my heart.
Frank, as witty and cynical as you are, what help do you provide Shantam? Why not consider how you can assist him? Answer the questions he raises. Any fool can criticise, easy peasy.
Yes, I’m an overbearing vicar, lover of Barry Long, sentimental in your eyes, patronising in self-knowledge, a cardboard cut-out, dull and pontificating.
Who are you? How do you help? Got anything to offer, other than cyncism, petty wit?
You aren’t doing too bad here, Reverend Symond.
You’ve managed to con 15% of the regulars into joining your congregation.
Whoops, my bad. Nearly 30%.
Frank, really.. come onnnnn, just help ok…This other stuff sermons no-one.
Signed,
Derek Nimmo.
Francis,
Shantam is not stuck in the past.
He’s stuck in the Shantam.
P.S:
I have a feeling a monumentally pompous sermon is on its way to you from his vicarness.
Frank, why don’t you (and others) take the trouble to actually address the points Simond has made in his latest post? As it is, one can only suspect you might be uncomfortably and inconveniently aware that there might be at least ‘something’ in what he’s saying, which you’d prefer to keep at arm’s length by simply avoiding.
Where did I ever suggest my arguments with Shantam were purely a “detached, unsentimental seeking for truth?” That’s your idea, not mine. I have found much of what he says misguided, offensively unintelligent, and I have no problem with being thoroughly pissed off with it and having wanted to oppose his nonsense. Just like anyone else here in any ongoing dispute.
But btw, you’re not up to speed on this one, as in case you’ve missed the very important latest news, I’ve finished bothering with Shantam. It took a long time, but there you go, as Lokesh and Ashok have recently declared, we live and learn….
I don´t know how many people read Sannyasnews? It will be a joy if few new people write something, anything on this string.
I request,
Is this not a good opportunity to pour your heart out, feelings of gratitude or feelings of being used?
Aha! What have we here then? Shantam Prem has strolled into SN’s town square and stuck his fat head in the stocks again. A glutton for punishment, a veritable masochist, here come the rotten eggs.
The first word that comes to mind in reading Shantam’s latest blurt is ‘pathos’, as in invoking emotions that have no bearing on the issue, in that the pathē they stimulate lack, or at any rate are not shown to possess, any intrinsic connection with the point at issue. The second word that comes to mind is pathetic.
One can only speculate that Mother Nature was in one of her rare compassionate moods on the day she created Shantam Prem, a complete idiot. Knowing the hardships he would have to endure on his troubled journey through life, due to his stubborn stupidity, she coated him in a very thick skin. In Gurudjieffian parlance, he is surrounded by ‘buffers’ of historical proportion.
The downside is that water will wear away even the hardest rock in time and so one day it will happen to Shantam too. His intricate buffer system will wear down and he will see what he is…an absolute fool.
Shantam begins on familiar ground. Somehow seeing Poona 2 as “what I consider to be the final and most telling phase of Osho´s work.” He does this while remaining blind to the fact that this may well have much to do with the fact that he sees it as such simply because he was there at the time. Therefore it is up for debate.
Osho was the most remarkable man I ever met in terms of generating psychic energy. He was the Van der Graff Generator of the spiritual world. How he did this is anyone’s guess. Energy of this kind must be handled with care. Electricity is great stuff, but sticking your finger in a light socket will teach you to treat it with respect.
Shantam is testament to Osho’s power. The problem arises when you plug a cheap Indian light bulb into a million watt outlet. No need of Einstein to figure out that equation. Something is going to blow. And it did. In Shantam’s head. Powerful stuff and Shantam never ever really met Osho up close and personal. The damage was done from a distance. Shantam was a spectator at the great Osho circus and got his mind permananently blown.
One can only speculate on what would have become of poor Shantam had he been jacked into the motherlode, something well nigh impossible during the time period Shantam describes, due to Osho’s popularity.
Back in the day, a more intimate relationship was possible with Osho and he was on hand to help with psychice energy overload…up to a point, at least. If you flipped out big time you were on your own in no man’s land, lucky if a good Samaratin lent a helping hand. There were always a few such souls around.
Of course, Shantam knows nothing at all about what I am describing, content to satisfy his simple mind with headlines like, “The final and most telling phase of Osho´s work.”
Then we have this hyberbolic nonsense: “In a tired, sick and poisoned body, Osho arrived in Pune in 1987, and despite struggling with his body’s difficulties, day in, day out, poured energy to and on His people.” Real pathos. Thing is, it is not quite true.
We have a reference to Osho being poisoned. Whether or not Osho was poisoned is up for debate. What is sure is that Osho was in great shape when in Nepal. A lot better shape than when he was giving those messy interviews on American TV, because he was stoned on tranquillisers. This was before the alleged poisoning took place.
It’s downhill all the way and then headlong into a granite boulder in the form of a banal request. Namely, “Would it not be interesting to know, for example, how you felt when Osho dropped the famous name Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, and the weeks leading to the disciples’ choice of OSHO?”
I first saw the name Osho in ‘The Book of Five Rings’. I think the meaning given was priest. When Osho started with that name it sounded like bullshit to me. Osho! Brainwashes whiter than ever before. Over the years I have come to accept it.
It gets worse. “For me, now it is up to you, whether to keep the work intact or do whatsoever. The very word, OSHO, is a call of the disciples to the Master.” God, talk about bombastic cornball.
Here we have a reference to keeping ‘the work’ intact, although I doubt Shantam would be capable of giving any coherent form to that work that any sane person would be able to comprehend. The same goes for all that shite he spouts about preseving Osho’s legacy and heritage. It is all nonsense.
Simond is quick off the mark in responding. He asks Shantam, quite understandably, “What is stopping you from moving on?” I’d say he is comfortably numb where he is. For Shantam to move on will require a massive shock in one form or another.
What moved me out of a lot of my Sannyas programming were a couple of massive shocks. In retrospect, I am glad it happened, but during the process I underwent great suffering, both physically and psychologically.
What it came down to was this. Life conspired to put me in situations where what I had learned from living, including my time with Osho, were put to the test. Result: I had to come up with more.
It was horrifying. Not only having the carpet pulled from under my feet but the floor also. I went into freefall over an abyss. I survived, but there were moments when I thought I would go under.
All I know now is that there are challenges in life that will require the use of every tool you have learned to use in order to overcome. It is important to be brutally honest with yourself when it comes to admitting what you truly understand and what you do not understand.
Reading Shantam’s article I just think to myself, this poor guy is utterly lost to the point of feeling self-righteous about it. The Jehovah’s Witnesses, Muslim extremists etc. share this in common with him. In a nutshell, pathetic, but get enough of them together and they become a menace.
He inspires you to such heights of invective.
ROTFLMAO
(I’ve a feeling you’re going to be in the doghouse with the Rev. Symond and his congregation, you know).
No, Arpana, you guessed quite wrong. Lokesh isn’t in any doghouse as far as I’m concerned.
He is very succinct and clear to me. Lokesh speaks from his heart – he talks from his experience, and he takes responsibility for his feelings and ideas and is open to change.
When he ridicules or criticises me, there is no blame or invective, he simply says as it he sees it. I learn from him. And I like him.
Gosh.
That’s fantastic.
Your so wonderfully ‘umble.
Inspiring.
I think Lokesh is un cundero …or curandero…or un cunde mui grande…mui gran cunde…
(Cleverly not mentioning any single reference to the healing power of blogging in there…93 column inches on any subject contains the equivalent of recited Buddhist prayers for those who recently have given up the will to read and passed to the other side).
Signed,
El Jefe de la Playa de los Retired,
C[o Cafe de las Memorias,
Shark Swim Dive Club,
Ayahuasca Towers,
Emergency Ward 10, El Hopital de las Santas Emergencia Total y Rivolucionaria,
Legacy Lane,
Ibiza.
As for the vicar…I reckon Totnes and the Marjorie Proops Memorial library has a lot to answer for there.But I like him and the fact that he has no idea what I’m talking about.
Emergency Ward 10…that’s a good one, as long as Z Cars do not show up I am doing fine on cloud nine. I have a new guru, who has introduced me to the source of the holy knock-up. His name is Maharishi Vasantaji Gurudwara.
See my earlier post, Arpana (11.27am today), first parag.
SD,
I don`t really disagree with much of the content of Simonds` post and I don`t find it contains some truth that I would `like to avoid` as you suggest.
It`s the style I don’t like.
He sounds like a phoney vicar, that`s all.
Brings out my inner Charlie hebdo!
I visited the ashram three times during this period, but the experience was very different to living there for a year and a half, and I was older, and had been with him all those years by then, had been through so much, but I can recall talking to people who were new to everything and it seems to me they were experiencing being there much as we did when we were starting out, although none of those I spoke to were daft enough to believe that it was their presence that was making the time so special.
Shantam makes an appeal in his string article for just a few of the many thousands who were, he claims, in Pune 2, to make comments. Hardly a single fish is on his hook.
A shame, maybe, but could it be they did not share his feelings that this was in some sort of sense the very crescendo of Osho’s work?
It is true that i never went to Pune during this period, Shantam. I did contemplate going in 1987 but Amrito phoned me at my sannyas communal home in Crouch End saying that, in producing the first paper issues of Sannyasnews I “risked” my sannyas, whatever that means. He asked me to cease publication. Oddly enough, he did so saying that the “satirical” articles were beyond the pale. Satire!!
Just at this time, it makes me think satire is a very unpopular (and dangerous) activity when confronting any sort of reinforced dogmatism.
So clearly, I may well have been banned had I turned up at the ashram then – a wasted journey – and avoiding the ashram thought police all the time, even if I had made it inside the gates.
It actually shifted my thinking – to see I could do more for Osho outside of such an organisation than inside it.
Parmartha, jokes and satires apart, ask anyone who is an insider, Amrito and Jayesh will be the names responsible for shrinking Osho Sannyas beyond belief.
Surely they have the right. They think being very much around Osho they deserve to be part of trinity: Indian master, British doctor and Canadian property developer!
One of the most promising spiritual movements, which could have opened doors for all kinds of people is on its last days. Other than Indian masses, Sannyas is RIP as far as developed countries are concerned. Just in 25 years!
When ‘Regicide’ happens, the chaos that follows is often much worse. Just look at Libya, Iraq and Syria for starters.
Amrito does not like satire. More fool him (a meeting between him and Frank would be fantastic viewing!).
But many of you guys who want to replace him don’t like it either, or even fail to recognise it!
Despite his criticism of me in 1987, I would still say he has ‘held’ a lot together for many, many years. Not an easy sadhana. Nothing is as black and white as it seems.
This is very true. There is nothing black and white. And with his infinite wisdom, Osho chose the right people. They were assigned special jobs, they were trained by Osho. It is like a multi-speciality hospital, where different doctors work without interfering with the other.
It was working perfectly well. And I am sure this was the reason Osho chose 20 people and not one successor. Maybe out of his over-confidence or too much belief in the power of heart; Osho must not have thought even in worst case scenario that chairman and vice-chairman won´t be able to hold the energy together.
Internal organs started blaming each other. End result is obvious.
Osho Commune International demise is tragic in that sense, no other master in the near future will have the stamina to gather people from around the world. Indians have dozens of gurus, they anyway didn’t care a damn about Osho.
Loss is basically of the western seekers. They were the ones who built the place, they were the ones who were enjoying it the most. What makes me surprised is why western disciples did not fight against the blunder. Many are doing it, but in a lukewarm way.
El Chudo, when it comes to shrinking Osho Sannyas beyond belief, as you put it, you are a great exponent. Perhaps having a shrunken head is your advantage on this level.
Dear Parmartha!
Many thanks for sharing your candid comments re your experiences with the resident Pune bully-boys i.e. Amrito in this instance.
Although it may not be what Shantam was expecting, it undoubtedly occurred during the final period before the death of Osho, and as such is highly relevant.
Quite clearly, what Amrito was demanding was beyond the pale, in my opinion! By acting in this way, he revealed the OIF management team to be very insecure, irrational, and intolerant of any criticism (the trade marks for cult leaders, assorted thugs, tyrants et al).
Anybody who has stood up to their nonsense deserves much praise and support.
Good on ya!
Keep it up!
SN, the picture of Osho at the top of the article is from Rajneeshpuram, not ‘Rajneeshdham’ or Pune 2.
Please post one you think is from that period. We got the pic from a facility which listed it as from Pune 2.
Look, Shantam Prem, you wrote a really good invitation for others to write about their experiences in Pune 2. The problem is that who wants to write anything positive on the same web page where others are vomiting? Inner experiences are very delicate, are based on a state of receptivity and sensitivity, and in this blog there is too much aggression and not enough receptivity.
You must know what vamana is in Ayurveda. Mr. Lokesh needs some kind of release, some help to vomit all his acidity, his bile, otherwise who is going to expose some beautiful stories and experiences about Pune 2 on a web page full of vomit? Sorry, I have to call a spade a spade. Certainly, not me and Videh.
Even though we would have many stories, we will not tell them unless you straighten up a few strange people that roam around your website. And you will have to do that, hammering their sick reasonings one by one, not for the sake of winning over them, just for truth’s sake.
We can’t do it, because ‘no time to waste on bickering and fighting’. We are already too busy fighting with the spiritual ‘Borgs’ or the religion of the Trademark, as Ramateertha calls it. You know who I am talking about, don’t you? I guess you do, but there are many things that you might not know…
Or you could moderate their ‘contributions’ to your website, and throw some of their acidity and bile residues into a London toilet (is that where you are based?).
We have been around Osho long enough to feel things. And what I feel personally is that Shantam Prem has a very positive and loyal attitude towards Osho, and perhaps he feels a bit suffocated by this western-style cynicism that is prevalent in SN, because maybe many westerners do not understand the concept of sitting with a Master.
I am surprised that you, Shantam, can tolerate it and that actually at times you also ride on that train and you start rambling and producing cynical comments one after the other.
Appreciated more your heartful style that transpires in this small article than the usual mental gymnastics that you usually display in other blogs.
By the way, Lokesh, who are you? Scottish Lokesh? Or another Lokesh?
Please, stop bickering, even if you think that the heart is just a pumping machine and nothing spiritual in it, your head should spin thoughts that at least have a little bit of sense. What’s the point of comparing Shantam to a Jehovah’s Witness or a Muslim extremist? Do you realise what you are saying?
Please do me a favour: go in front of a mirror, look at yourself in the eyes and repeat aloud these two sentences: Shantam is like a J. Witness, Shantam is like a Muslim extremist.
See how you feel after this experiment…
I am not defending Shantam. He is a Sikh, a warrior, and knows very well how to defend himself. Just feel that we could share more responsible thoughts, more truthful feelings – not just cathartic releases that lead only to antagonism, defensiveness, aggressive and narcissistic behaviour, where the only unsaid purpose of the discussion is to put down the other, to win over the other.
Love,
Chidananda
Chidananda writes: “no time to waste bickering and fighting, we are too busy fighting with the spiritual Borgs.”
The satire writes itself!
You have been writing here for a few days and you are demanding who should be here and who should not and how they should write.
Religious extremists demanding the closedown of a magazine that offends their ‘spiritual’ sensitivities?
Now, where have I heard about about something like that, just recently?
SN has done you a big favour, Chidananda. It has allowed you to vent the sick religious bile that’s hidden beneath your spiritual posturing.
Have a lovely jihad.
Are you a sunniasin or an Oshi`ite?
Go get those spiritual Borgs, bigboy….
Osho hoo akbar!
“We are the Borg. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.”……Future hell, can it be avoided?
The Sanny Tubbies enquire, “By the way, Lokesh, who are you? Scottish Lokesh? Or another Lokesh?”
The answer is that I am that Lokesh. And no, I don’t want to become Facebook friends. Charlie Manson would probably dig having some new pen pals. Why not contact him if you are hard up for company? I am sure you would get along like a funeral pyre.
P.S: Get well soon.
Btw,
Osho books are great.
But in matters re Pune, George Orwell’s ‘Animal Farm’ could come in handy too!
Shantam, you are listed as having over 1,800 friends on Facebook. A dubious sort of number if I might say so!
Anyway, I assume some of them are from your time in Pune 2, so why not make sure they know you are making this plea!
Parmartha, time and again I have told to many people to share their comments on this site.
Believe me, almost all have said, “It is full with mind-fuckers.” They don´t want to encounter this negativity. They scan from time to time Sannyasnews, simply to read my posts.
I am not making it up. It does not soothe my ego. After all, it won´t put me in the league of Farid Zakaria or Bill Maher.
For experiment sake, I share the link of this article on facebook page, ‘Save Osho Pune and Samadhi.’ Few people will definitely write something.
On the other side, you can ask as an impartial observer to your readers, “Whose posts do you enjoy the most?” If Shantam is even at second place, I will stop writing here.
I know as a disciple, I pour my heart at the site whose motto is “welcomes all sannyasins”, and surely I don´t write for the fellow bloggers, though they chase the balls I throw!
It is their loss, Shantam.
Those who don’t have enough intelligence to understand and appreciate satire and humour…we could say we don’t want them.
When people talk about negativity they dont understand what many bloggers here are all about. A lot of the comments are ‘tongue in cheek’, but they don’t get it.
I heard one TV commentator saying that those poor slaughtered guys at Charlie were basically “not grown up”! And their humour was immature and laughing at, not with people. I disagree, but I can well imagine that many people in public life in France did not read Charlie for similar reasons to why your “friends” do not read Sannyasnews.
I must admit that your self-important statement in your last post is truly a matter for some jesting, and hope someone does it. Self-importance should always be punished by piss-taking.
MOD: PARMARTHA, BY your last post WOULD THAT BE SHANTAM’S POST OF 9.07pm?
Yes
Someone must have left the door to the monkey house open.
I am offended by Herr Herrmen Boering’s comments.
Since when has Simon Dee been satirical and intellectual? Go on, answer the question….yes, stop avoiding, just answer the question, with an answer…the right one…Ok, i’ll count to five… and while I’m waiting…
As regards to Lokesh, I no longer reply to his provocations, following a rash of advice from Monsieur STd himself, M.Sharia Deva-du Barry, who told me to ignore his wanton diving and dodging ways.
As far as Frank goes, I haven’t recovered from Sherlock putting him up yesterday for a satire contest with the Dr. I mean, I have a family and twelve kids to feed. I need the cash.
Chidananda: without the dynamic there can be no vipassana to follow.
El Chudo blurts, “On the other side, you can ask as an impartial observer to your readers, “Whose posts do you enjoy the most?” If Shantam is even at second place, I will stop writing here.”
Chud buster, if that were true it would be your last post. If you knew how conceited you sound declaring, “I don´t write for the fellow bloggers, though they chase the balls I throw!”, I believe you would retract that statement.
Lokesh/That Lokesh/Scottish Lokesh,
Many of my posts I have retracted. If on second reading I find them not fair or hitting under the belt, I request editor. Just minutes ago, I retracted one post directed at you, as I felt it was mean.
Sometimes while writing one uses dark colours to make effect sharp, but “conceited” is not the word I will use for me, I am by nature a loser type and many times I lose to make others enjoy the taste of victory. In reality, I don´t feel like the captain here or anywhere else.
Indian mythology has few such characters and I get immense inspiration from them.
But then this is also worth an accomplishment. One needs to feel secured about one´s position in the scheme of things. Does it sounds conceited?
Chud Meister enquires, “Does it sounds conceited?”
Answer, no, it does not. What it sounds like to me is someone who has no understanding of the doctrine of the ‘I’s. What this means in layman’s terms is that you are not one inside but many. One I says this and another one says that.
There’s a multitude of ‘I’s inside of your being. Christ, when confronted with a person who was thought to be possessed by a demon enquired of that person, ‘Who are you?’ The response was, “We are legion.” Such is your situation, and almost everyone else’s for that matter.
Perhaps it might inspire you to enquire further by informing you that in spite of your outdated East/West programme it was a westerner who inspired Osho more than anyone else. That man’s name was Gurudjieff. Osho did not speak so much about Gurudjieff as say, Buddha, but when it came to creating his commune the backbone of it was formed around Gurudjieff’s ideas.
Osho was, of course, very much aware of the doctrine of the ‘I’s, but never placed too much emphasis on it in his discourses. I am sure he had his reasons. Instead, he focused primarily on the concept of witnessing, a thread that ran through much of what he spoke about over the years.
The thing is, if one follows the path of witnessing to a certain breakthrough point one will eventually come to realize how important the doctrine of the ‘I’s is in terms of understanding the human condition.
I suspect that Osho, quite rightly, saw that his people were not ready to be introduced to such a profound and complex teaching and instead concentrated on preparing the ground, in the hope that some of the seeds he sowed would one day come to fruition.
Good post, Lokesh.
Stage is free, Lokesh. You can start an ‘I’ school for those spiritual elites who think they are on advanced stage.
The way magazines have many titles in their stable, why not with Parmartha a new website,
http://www.inews.org?
Discussion and articles on I! I am sure many bloggers will appreciate.
Well, Chudo, you know how the saying goes, ‘Give not that which is holy to the dogs, neither cast you your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.’
Simond,
You seems to be quite a brainy person?
If you are gay, I am sure after the Elton John song on your boy´s pipe, you must be nourishing his being too.
If you are hetero, I wonder how your girl copes with this? Women love power and if you establish yourself as next Barry Very Long, she will feel proud of you.
So, as a wise, well-read man you know the simple fact that Master/Disciple, Guru/Shishya thing is 100% Indian concept. It is in the air for thousands of years.
Osho tried to plant mango trees in apple orchards; whether it created better fruits or not is a subjective matter.
I hope next time you won´t allow someone to penetrate your heart or being without the consent of your inner voice.
For me, your words are not very impressive, because they are not my type.
Idiocy of spiritual seekers is beyond measurement. More or less they are like demonstrators before abortion clinics. This is wrong, morally and spiritually wrong.
Someone needs to tell them, if your heart feels solace at the husky voice of some south Indian woman, then enjoy. Why you nerve others? Why you want to sort out the others?
Idiocy of spiritual seekers is beyond measurement. In the context of Osho, if He did not suit you then go your way. Why you sit in the waiting room and trying to motivate other patients? Billions of people are hooked with this or that dead man. If few thousand use present tense at the request of their master on the death bed, let it be.
Simond, you don´t need to be so good-headed like a man who writes mails to the new husband of his ex-wife, “What turns her on.”
Shantam, thank you for remembering the 25th anniversary.
Unlike you, I don’t believe Osho’s last few years were the most important phase. I am interested in all the phases of Osho’s life. I just read all 604 pages of the first four decades of Osho’s life and enjoyed learning about all that Osho did before 1974, even before Jabalpur (the book, ‘Osho Source Book: 1931-1974′, is free of charge at: http://www.oshosourcebook.com ).
Osho’s life is well documented and shows a perfectly consequent life. This is not an opinion; there is documentary evidence of Osho’s consistency. After reading the ‘Osho Source Book’, my conclusion is: it is not just marketing hype to say Osho is a master of masters.
I remember, Shantam, the thousands of buddhas in an energy dance with Osho during that last phase. I was there and saw the same as you. Osho was frail, but wielded a mighty Zen stick. I remember seeing the books arrive in the commune bookstore with provocative titles like: ‘Christianity, The Deadliest Poison’ & ‘Zen, The Antidote To All Poisons’ and ‘Zarathustra, A God That Can Dance’: Talks On Friedrich Nietzsche’s ‘Thus Spoke Zarathustra’. Powerful discourses. Still powerful today.
Unlike you, I am not concerned about keeping the fire burning for the generation of seekers to come. I trust it will happen on its own…as it always has: before, during and after Osho.
When Osho dropped the name Bhagwan and then went through several names before settling on Osho, it was amusing to me. It was a lesson about identity. “Rose is a rose is a rose is a rose,” as Gertrude Stein said. As Shakespeare said: “What’s in a name? That which we call a rose, by any other name would smell as sweet.”
Shantam, I agree with you that we, those thousands of people from around the world, got a special privilege from existence. I do not agree with your notion that we have a kind of sacred duty to share our experiences. Things are going well… no sense of duty is needed. The river is flowing freely…there is no sacred duty to push the river.
Thank you, Shantam, for your invitation to share reflections.
Samarpan says, “Osho’s life is well documented and shows a perfectly consequent life.”
He has to be joking.
When things get rotten, they get rotten all the way. What I object is how Osho movement has taken shape after the departure of the patriarch.
As I woke up early and wanted to download a discourse from Oshoworld, came across a photo feature of Swami Vedant taking meditation camp in Vancouver in October last year. Here it will be interesting to mention that if there are some kind of purely Osho activities in North America, it is because of Swami Arun´s effort on Expat Nepali settlers.
Swami Vedant is one of the five Indians chosen by Osho as Inner Circle member. He is a thorough gentleman, Brahmin by birth and also Brahmin by actions. Surely, He is one figure presented before the media and intellectuals by Pune and when he was unceremoniously kicked out by Jayesh regime, Delhi camp welcomed him with open arms. There too he is the brand ambassador of OSHO brand of spirituality.
The style of photo really pushed my buttons. I don´t think this elderly gentleman has the authority and the power to do such kind of gimmicks.
I mean as a kicked-out trustee your first job is to raise a shit storm against the injustice to the institution. And if you are such a gentlemanly coward, what right you have even to represent OSHO?
Had Osho accepted this lying down?
I must say, almost all the Indians playing mini-gurus in the name of Osho, indulge in 1975 style of energy bombs. But at the present time, it looks parody.
People who were given the reins of a luxury super mall are running the corner shops.
Osho work is happening still, 25 years after the departure.
This sort of picture makes me yuk.
Is that Rolf Harris?
Perfectly correct, Chidananda, Videh and Shantam!
You are heroically battling the tide of western vomit and cynicism that is trying to destroy the wisdom of mighty Bhorat!
The bitter Scottish baboon Lokesh, with his mindfucks about the “multiplicity of I`s” shows how little the western mind understands!
We know perfectly well who we are!
Shantam is a Sikh, a warrior, who by his own words has clearly proclaimed that he wishes to depart from this world in the ceremonies of his religion of birth.
Vedant is a Brahmin. A perfect gentleman.
Chideh and Vidanand have been, as they say, “around Osho long enough to feel things.”
I also am a Brahmin whose ancestors have continually known the heights and depths of mighty Bhorat for 5000 years!
We have enough self-knowledge simply from being born in in the Indian incontinent!
Why complicate this with western mindfucks which are nothing other than mind?!
We do not want aggressive and fighting behaviour, we simply want to fight with spiritual borgs, cynical westerners, and we must displace and ethically cleanse those who have desecrated our holy Samadhi!
Regime change is a must and we must preserve the holy books in their original form forever for the benefit of a religion of superconsciousness that can last 1000 yugas!!
We are holy!
The heroic Shantam, backed up with his heroic army of 18000 facebook followers, all of whom have shown their spiritual substance by exercising their holy right to silence, battles on like Shivaji on Prozac!
#
Like Vidachanda, I wonder how he has heroically survived the infection of communicating with cynical westerners and also the constant threat of homosexuality. He should have an AIDS test!
The need for him to hammer Elton John and other red-bottomed baboons becomes more urgent every day!
Now that his marriage has collapsed, even more enegy will be released for this hammering!
He is Number One in Hard-core neo-Hindu hit parade!
If he is not, I will eat my turban!
Is it not a vile injustice that Elton John is happily married in the perverted liberal West whilst our hero of the resistance, Shantam’s, only outlet is his constant ejaculations on to his keyboard?
But, never mind, it is written in the Akashik records that due to his heroic yet extraordinarily humble efforts in this life, he will certainly be born into a better life in his next incarnation.
Yahoo!
Hari Om!
Anand Yogi, my dear, I was waiting…I knew you wouldn’t miss it, you couldn’t…it was too much! You never disappoint us! XX
Tania and Lokesh,
I will not fall for your cynical tricks!
I am aware of the enlightened advice that Videh and Chidanand have given Shantam: that to fraternise too much with the western baboons is to risk becoming infected with cynicism through vomit-to-vomit contact, just as to hang around with homosexuals gives you AIDS.
In Bhorat there are many things that you westerners, who have not had the benefit of an unbroken chain of sages to guide you throughout 5000 years of glorious history, are not aware!
For example, it is well known in Vedic and Brahminic astrology that even if the shadow of a perverted low-caste baboon passes over you, it can have an extremely malefic effect on Uranus! It is utterly scientific!
Also, the Akashik records tell us that the wheel of reincarnation and karma ensures that in Bharat our souls remain our souls for eternity!
But I must now confide the genuine fears that I have for my soul brother Shantam:
the combination of his stellar rise to Number One in the SN charts, mixed with the all-too-real possibility of infection from living in a spiritual wasteland and away from the holy mammary of Mother India, coupled with his intake of non-ayurvedic western medicine such as Prozac, could destroy what little there is left of his no-mind!
He has already reported his preference for Japanese Zen porn. Whatever next?
A three-in-a-bed romp with Elton John and Guru Palak perhaps?
It is a possibility that he may ‘start batting for the other side’, become a pole-smoker and with buttocks quivering over-ripe mangoes, embark on a steamy affair with a middle-aged Canadian property developer!
It is a horrifying thought and my heart bleeds like a pomegranate run over by an all-India permit truck when I think of the dishonour that such revelations could heap onto the shoulders of his forefathers and to the brave 18000 souls on facebook and Videh and Chidambaram who have supported him so heroically!
Yahoo!
Hari Om!
Anand Yogi, my dear, many thanks for that! A jewel! You really make me laugh! XX
Big up to his holiness Yogiji for keeping the Akashick records straight and putting me firmly in my place. Not for the first time I have once again been put in my place. I bow down at his holiest hob-nailed boots.
On this day, in homage to our satirists at SannyasNews, and everywhere else:
The caption reads (excuse my poor translation if it turns out to be poor):
‘A hundred lashes if you don’t die of laughing!’
Good one.
Don`t forget the mag. title: ‘Charia (Sharia) Hebdo’.
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ6v4nRhqiY2LiwRL1IYw0CX1nPTIJ8UtfUrGCzv2W-OWS6nGzUhg
The Hebdo event was not an attack on State-sponsored thinking (however justified by an ugly pleb) but an attack on 17 individuals who were free to write and think and say and live what they wanted.
That is an ethical freedom of the Self, not a God-given or State-protected one.
The State and its propagandising protagonists is the ultimate in hypocritical violence in reserving corporate militarism to itself in time of war but now, in becoming the protagonist of freedom by associating itself with Hebdo, which was and is anti-militarist.
The extent that Osho licked arse can be debated, the hypocrisy can be itemised, but he wasn’t an out and out cock-sucker…unlike Arun, who is cock-sucking as we speak.
I’m willing to be convinced of a new-found revolutionary civic-state libertarianism and willingness to offend openly instead of pretending to accept nutcase religion and statist militarism, except that history teaches that the opposite will occur: fear-based regulation and the hierarchical empowering of the bureaucratic class in the name of protection from…kebab shops and stupid-looking goons on street corners with their repressed sexuality and inability to mock their own deficiencies.
That I’m, after these events, no-longer constricted in the stifling compromise mores of the multicultural EUisms and openly feel able now to unashamedly refuse the EU version of pc/ mock-polite, deferential conditioned-culture society is an excellent step forward for me.
I could not, for example, teach or work in a UK institute which prevented me from challenging belief incessantly and provocatively, but I’m not certain that interpretation is the dominant one or the eventual outcome for civic law and its public forms of acceptance.
My Slogan: ‘Please Offend Me Regularly – Charlie Would.”
“I could not, for example, teach or work in a UK institute which prevented me from challenging belief incessantly and provocatively…”
Ok, I’ll challenge this apparently predominant belief of yours, Mr Martini:
Why on earth do you imagine such personal concerns of yours have anything at all to do with any job you’d be hired to do, in this case (I presume) teaching English to foreigners?
Besides any personal delusions of psycho-spiritual grandeur, of course…
You come across as somewhat ‘unworldly’, lacking ‘common sense boundaries’, constantly driven, it seems, to want to push your basically self-ish concerns onto others, under some illusion it’ll be good for them, and that they might even be grateful!
Moreover, although you can at times be quite amusing, it’s often hard enough to decipher exactly what you mean in your tortuously written lengthy diatribes – God knows what non-English speakers would ever make of such outpourings!
When SD does the psycho chicken fry of a poster boy vegetarian, words give the impression of wisdom…
Martyn´s freedom of speech is really bottomless.
For example, “The extent that Osho licked arse can be debated, the hypocrisy can be itemised, but he wasn’t an out and out cock-sucker…unlike Arun, who is cock-sucking as we speak.”
Has Martyn lost his nuts or has he got one, plus one extra?
PM wrote: “My Slogan: ‘Please Offend Me Regularly – Charlie Would.’ ”
Ooohh yes, PM, if it is an open invitation! I’ll sleep on it before I come up with something substantial. However, for the meantime let me see if you really mean what you say by offering a little additional tidbit to SD’s comment which went:
“God knows what non-English speakers would ever make of such outpourings!”
Having taught EFL, I think the poor little luvvies would probably think that Garbler Dick-tum was not up to the task required, and would therefore request a new teacher!
I don’t do detentions, but in your case, Asscock, you’re on your own after today’s lessons, in a locked room with Std.
You’ve only got yourselves to blame. And the fact that you could well be both plebs from the lower orders.
As usual, Mr Martini, clearly, er, ‘offended’ by criticism he can’t adequately cope with – thus belying his proudly professed personal “slogan” * – hides behind clever-dick posturing, imagining he’s some sort of ‘satirist’, later asking Frank, “Do you think if we targeted him with some deadly satire..?”
Martini, old son, get real, you’re not fit to tie Frank’s laces, let alone play in the same team, or even on the same pitch.
(* See Ashok’s last post, today, 6.23pm)
Asscock?
Well, blow me down…It looks like I’ve managed to get your creative juices going. What a beautiful gift, PM, I think it is highly suitable as it describes the merging of two body parts which provide me with unlimited pleasure!
Words cannot describe my gratitude, which is such that I would like the moderator to use this beautiful name you have lovingly imparted, from NOW ON! (To the mod: I am being serious with this name change as I feel I can identify with it, but if it requires me to re-register, please forget that I mentioned it).
Yes, PM, I am indeed a pleb from the ‘lower orders’ (well, pond-life actually) and thankful for it. So you are spot on there!
There is one thing, however, which I feel I need to take issue with, and that is your omission of my Irish heritage! Furthermore, please do not forget that SD is also of Emerald Isle extraction!
Who said we need false flag attacks from above? Any excuse will do…
Here we go, back to the Eton public school f(l)agging rules of Cameron, Blair and…fucking the new-boy public up the arse…
Here’s the ruse:
Start revoking decades of fought-for guarantees on employment rights (Italy), use and create anti-protest laws, anti-civil disobedience laws (google Spain’s new laws of anti-protest in the pipeline, to come soon at at guardia civil near you), then, using freefall government stockbroker policy to avoid investing in recyclables…
Make fear, oli-obligatory as…
Exxon, BP and Shell Oil money supports Wahhabi Saudi Arabian Royal sword executioners (et al) and the language of misery…with 10 year prison sentences plus 1000 lashes for simple civil rights blogging online, at 50 lashes per week (google it)…Wahhabi money goes into buying swords and guns for their Wahhabi Isis-sword mindfuckers, they spread the terror against dynastic Stalinist dictators and any other towel-head nutter in the Middle East… –
Then – and this is the brilliant part – millions of refugees enter Europe, pressure-cooking born psychos to come out of the woodwork, with ready-made syllogisms (google it), firing-off poisoned neurons in their tiny plebean arse-heads because they’ve heard and seen it’s ok to start wars wherever you can – because nobody can stop you, however much they disagree with drones, religious or remotely democratic bombing ones.
Leaving the planet to boil over in a feckless, reckless dash, hell for leather descent into Hades itself, while the vanguard spiritual elite consider how to discuss the implications online about the significance of language, mockery and a trickle-down wisdom-book effect from sincerely confronting one’s real or imagined enemies, fifth columnists, or fine weather fellows…at a distance, using humming not as personal empowerment (Osho ) but as a solace intovert-drug (proto legacy Sannyas).
Nice…
What can you do? Well, here’s a teeny tip from uncle Mart:
Just go back over my last few years of posts – you never know, I might have posted something on that blog-roll that might help voice and enjoy confronting a bit of that stuck-on-your-underpants-bottomless-chuddo carnist-crap ideology…
Or you might just enjoy the relief from sitting on the blog for years, whilst re-inventing fiddling while Rome burns.
Sad, terribly sad (NOT a mediatic news event in the Franco Society of the Spectacle – as Paritosh would have clearly known), just sad and very, very fucked-up from which one has to rise, is obliged to…
Thanks for trying, Osho…in your own way – it helped…me…
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30673625
And thanks, Dave…Dave’s great -
David Cameron, that is!
if I can make a cartoon it will about elderly swami touching the boobs of young Russian. Both saying “Ho, Ho,
Tantra for the 21st century!”
Another will be:
‘George Clooney and Imran Khan get everywhere -
You will get only at Resort!
Come feel the difference in 30 days!’
Medication time!
Frank, meditate on your inner Islamist!
Shantam,
You meditate on your inner Islamist.
http://www.hughhewitt.com/mark-steyn-charlie-hebdo-terrorist-attacks-phony-hashtag-solidarity-shown/
“So a couple of publications on the planet, including mine in Canada and ‘Charlie Hebdo’ in Paris, published these cartoons. And as a result, Le Monde didn’t, and the Times of London didn’t, and the New York Times didn’t, and nobody else did. And as a result, these fellows in Charlie Hebdo became the focus of murderous rage.
If we’d all just published them on the front page and said if you want to kill us, you go to hell, you can’t just kill a couple of obscure Danes, you’re going to have to kill us all, we wouldn’t have this problem. But because nobody did that, these Parisian guys are dead. They’re dead.
And I’ve been on enough, I’ve been on enough events in Europe with less famous cartoonists than these who live under death threats, live under armed guard, have had their family restaurant firebombed. It’s happened to a Norwegian comedienne I know, who’s come home and found their home burned, as a Swedish artist I know it happened to….”
“If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.”
– U.S. President James Madison.
Interesting.
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/jan/12/charlie-hebdo-memorial-edition-to-include-cartoons-prophet-muhammad
Luz, a ‘Charlie’ cartoonist, said working on the issue was helping him and his colleagues:
“We’re getting by. We are having fewer nightmares. We are trying to put a magazine together and find some calm and inspiration, it’s not easy. We are down to a skeleton staff since last Wednesday, as you might have noticed, but we’ll try our best.”
Asked whether he was moved by the vast unity rally on Sunday, Luz said his favourite moment was when a pigeon defecated on the shoulder of the French president, François Hollande, as he addressed the team.
Poona 2 was the phase where Osho made it clear that his message was meditation and that sannyasins should focus on their spiritual growth and not their relationship problems etc…Introduced new meditations like No-Mind, Chakra Sounds and breathing, the Mystic Rose…
And actually the blossoming of Poona 2 was something of a miracle considering that most commentators clearly expected everything to crumble after the Oregon debacle. But although many left, even more joined – the mysterious ways of Existence around an enlightened mystic!
As for the name shift, Shantam Prem, I liked it and I understood his reasons for dropping a name that was associated with the Hindu tradition, liked the anonymity of it and always think about him as Osho♥
(MOD: THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED)
“As for the name shift…I understood his reasons for dropping a name that was associated with the Hindu tradition”
Sounds very noble to me, however, being a cynical shoite, I have always suspected that the name change had something with marketing, regardless of the official reasons put forward. Let’s face it, the name BS Rajneesh, was a bit whiffy after the ‘Ranch’ debacle!
When it comes to name changes, I am reminded of the demise of a vacuum cleaner given the model name ‘Nova’, some years ago. ‘Nova’ sounds exactly the same as ‘No va’ in Spanish, which can mean either ‘It does not go’ or ‘It does not work’, at the very least when used in relation to things.
Unsurprisingly, the ‘Nova’ flopped when released onto the Latin America market, and was quickly withdrawn!
Dear Mr Sharia Deva….
Thank you for your usual witless and humourless correspondence which is a crass defence for your inability to create mirth of any kind and by your self-satisfying morose hidden behind a laptop verbiage.
Whatever you say is obviously a projection of yours and you are not up to speed on this one.
(I got there first, so you can’t use that ri-poste as is your usual).
Na na nee nahh nahhh (not the sound of of police sirens, but the sound of alarm bells in your head).
Toodle pip, Nutter. D’ya miss mummy’s absent hugs ‘cos daddy was marching you up and down the parade ground? Ohh, diddums… how English.
The usual all too predictable, ‘buttons well and truly pressed’, gratuitous reaction, no surprise at all, Mr Martini.
As with Simond, you just can’t or won’t deal with issues and certainly not with criticism. Poor, deluded, infantile you.
Dear Dave at the STD clinic,
Why are people so busy these days? If only they knew how to find the time to pause and relieve their itch.
I instead often find time to ignore you, as you yourself have been such a wonderful teacher in the ways of the Gallic ‘con-artiste’ or ‘artiste des cons’, paving the way for your comments du Snide, in your questing disguise as you feign concern or engagement in replies to your finger-fuelled self-enhancement.
You busy-bee, you.
Excellente et deficiente.
Tu es un proper Charlie.
When Osho left – he went out of the room and down the road.
The only choice is to pack and go.
He is not here
He is not there
He is everywhere.
I do no not miss
Because I remember this
Is so and it always changes
Everything