The Enlightened Inheritors of Osho: Shahriar

I want first to talk about Osho’s movement in relation to who is and who is not a sannyasin.

To be a sannyasin is something inner; to be a sannyasin has something to do with your being and not your words and actions. Actions and words are not necessarily a reflection of your consciousness, of your being. We know that people can deceive, they can pretend. We know that it is possible to be false. So it is important to understand, that to be sannyasin has nothing to do with the outer.(what people wear, whether they wear a mala, etc).

There are currently 1 billion or more Muslims on this earth. The majority of them are Muslims because they were born in a Muslim family. The majority of them are Muslims in name and in form. They fulfill all the prescribed rituals of their religion. The read the words of Mohammad etc. etc. etc.

There is only one problem though. The majority of them do not have the experience which Mohammad had, so how can they be sure that their being is truly Muslim? The actions and words of Mohammad were a response from his being to the situation that he encountered in the 8th century. There is nothing fixed about his response, because his response was a living now response.

But the current response of Muslims is not a living response. They are not encountering the present situation and responding out of awareness. To know the being of Mohammad, something else is necessary. What people call Sadhana is necessary. A Master is necessary, an enlightened one. What Rumi calls the fountainhead, the source. Someone who can help you enter the stream, as Buddha says. A living proof, a living testament.

The majority of people who are calling themselves sannyasins, are not necessarily sannyasins. It is not words that mean anything, it is not actions which have some significance. It is the being that is meaningful and significant. Once a person’s being is a sannyasin, once a person’s being has come to the same enlightenment to which Osho came, then the words and actions of such a person will reflect the being that is within. And this being’s response to the present time may not be the same as Osho’s response. His words and actions may not be consistent with Osho’s words and actions, because times change, the situation changes, and devices will also have to be changed. The response cannot remain the same, it will have to change, it will have to be fresh, living.

Now those people who judge persons calling themselves enlightened based on some past standard, perhaps the words and actions of Jesus, of Mohammad, of Buddha, of Mahavira will not be able to encounter the present moment. They will not be able to come into contact with a living buddha, a living enlightened one. Because their prejudice, their expectations work as a barrier to their ability to come into contact with an enlightened one who is living, who is in the body. Now an enlightened one has no obligation to fulfill expectations, the actions of such a one cannot be judged by your standards because you do not understand the being of such a one. You only see from the outside. Just as during Osho’s lifetime, people would come as spectators and they would try to find out what is happening without becoming a participant, and that is just not possible. Otherwise enlightenment would be observable in a laboratory, we could have bottles with love, beauty, joy, truth, freedom, enlightenment and they could all be given labels. But that is not the nature of such things. That is not the way it works.

For example, Maitreya Ishwara, (someone who was an Osho sannyasin for many years in Osho’s lifetime) He may be enlightened, he may not be enlightened. There is no way to judge from the outside. It is better to go to him, without prejudice, without judgment, with openness, just as Buddha went to the teachers in his area. Because if he is enlightened and you are rejecting him, this is going to be detrimental to you, not to him. He is not going to lose anything by your rejection, but you are going to lose an opportunity which you could have used for your own transformation. And there is no way to know from the outside. The only way to know with certainty is through direct knowledge. Knowledge without the use of a medium, whether it is the mind, or the senses, but since there are very few people with such a capacity, there is no way to judge or to reject someone. Because there is every possibility that they are enlightened…and you are not enlightened so how can you know? How can you judge? It would not be in your best interest to judge. All you can do is to be sincere, authentic, and an intense seeker.

There have always been enlightened masters, so to say that the reason “I am not enlightened is because there are no enlightened masters around” is to deceive oneself. The truth is that there has always been a lack of disciples, and not masters, there has always been a lack of seekers who are willing to risk. For those who are authentic seekers, there are many opportunities available but they remain unseen. Zen masters have often been mistaken for unenlightened individuals because they appeared very ordinary.

If there was any way to know who is enlightened or not, do you think Jesus would have been crucified, do you think Mansur-al-Hallaj would have been murdered? Do you think Buddha would have been rejected by the Hindus, and Jesus by the Jews? Why were these people rejected? Because the people during those times had expectations, they judged, based on words and actions. The Pope appears to be Christian, a devout Christian, but do you think that this means that he is? Maitreya may appear strange to some people, but we all know how Gurdjieff would change his appearance to send away people that he did not want wasting his time. So how can we judge?

The real tradition of Osho is the conscious tradition which he has created, just like Sufism, just like Zen, Yoga, Tantra etc. etc. etc. Now this conscious tradition is a tradition of enlightened masters. The exoteric tradition has the words, the actions of Osho, but the esoteric has his being. And that is the real thing. So we have to understand that all this recent debate (as it often appears in sannyasnews) is over the outward tradition and it has nothing to do with inner transformation. Something to remember is that orthodox Muslims have rejected the Sufis as heretics and many of them have been killed. But we know who the real inheritors of Mohammad are. Zen is not recognized by the orthodox Buddhists, but you and I know to whom Buddha gave the flower.

Now do you deny that orthodox sannyasins reject enlightened masters, because they judge based on outward signs and symbols? We all know the rumours spread about Osho in his very own lifetime. Isn’t it possible that the same thing is happening to Osho’s enlightened inheritors? If you are an authentic seeker, you will not reject someone based on words and actions, based on rumors by others that he is unhinged for example, because we know that people said about Gurdjieff that he was wicked, evil, a murderer etc. etc. etc.

So do not be deceived, because Jews rejected Jesus and Hindus rejected Buddha. Do you think that sannyasins are exceptional and that they cannot commit unconscious mistakes and reject an enlightened one? There is every possibility that some Osho sannyasins are enlightened, and to reject them because of prejudice or some sort of preconceived notion can be very harmful, especially if it turns out that they are, in fact, enlightened. Beware, meaning: be aware.

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304 Responses to The Enlightened Inheritors of Osho: Shahriar

  1. Heraclitus says:

    This is okay except that it all sounds so portentous. As if somehow Sharihar knows something the reader does not, and that, yes maybe he too is one of these enlightened chappies who knew the historical Osho, and now more than hints that the present secular debates are just diversions from looking within.
    His thesis is still conventional in that he follows the party line of the the usual master/disciple stuff, and the usual attachment to the notion of enlightenment.
    Enlightenment itself is just an old Buddhist concept from 8 centuries before Christ, and is not really acceptable in a truly modern world. There should never be a division between people who are enlightened and those who are not, everyone is basically in the same pot and that is good enough for me, as it throws away all the masks of totalitarianism at a single stroke, including that surrender to the Master nonsense.
    Shahriar is right to try and pitch the debate away from the secular competitors to Osho’s “church” and try and get back to something that can never be contained or confined within the walls of any ashram or church.
    He is mistaken in clinging to the “traditional” and much aged paradigm of the disciple/master relationship which should have been ditched in the 1st century AD.

  2. Shahriar says:

    I did not say that I know something the reader does not and I am not enlightened (yet, but I suppose everyone is not enlightened yet.) I do say that the present secular debates are diversions from looking within. As far as master and disciples are concerned, I agree with Osho’s idea of the friend, instead of a “master”, because then the disciple seems to be lower than the master. Why isn’t it acceptable in a truly modern world Heraclitus? Enlightenment does not depend on time, place, circumstance etc. etc. etc. As far as surrender to the master is concerned, the master is not interested in your surrender, you are the one who is thirsty and who risk everything. You are the one who is interested in ecstacy or whatever enlightened people are offering. It is your search.

    “Shahriar is right to try and pitch the debate away from the secular competitors to Osho’s “church” and try and get back to something that can never be contained or confined within the walls of any ashram or church.”

    I was not concerned with Osho’s “church” as you call it, mainly because the people in churches are just like the rest of the people, they are not in any way transformed. The saying “physician, heal thyself” says everything. They are trying to help others without first having transformed themselves.

    “He is mistaken in clinging to the “traditional” and much aged paradigm of the disciple/master relationship which should have been ditched in the 1st century AD.”

    Here I have to disagree. The master and disciple relationship is not traditional, neither is it aged. It is, in fact, very rebellious, because you are going to leave the society, the society is not going to have any hold over you anymore, and that is very threatening to the vested interests. You saw how Osho was accused of corrupting the youth and destroying the morality of the country. You saw how parents tried to kidnap their children and bring them back to the christian fold. Who do you think was traditional?

    The master and disciple relationship is not based on power. It is rather based on the fact that the master has something which he would like to impart to the disciple and the disciple is seeking this. This relationship has nothing to do with a church because in fact, the master and disciple relationship is dangerous to the churches. The master has the real thing, and when the real is there, the false coins are exposed.

    As far as Osho’s church is concerned, a church would be the wrong thing, because the people in the churches are deceivers. They have not transformed themselves and they are pretending that they have. The real thing is the tradition of enlightened masters, just like zen, sufism, tantra, yoga, tao etc. etc. etc.

  3. Shahriar says:

    “The real thing is the tradition of enlightened masters, just like zen, sufism, tantra, yoga, tao etc. etc. etc.”

    But I think this was a repetion of what I said in my article so ignore it.

  4. frank says:

    master -
    guy with leather face mask,studs,cat and nine tails with studs,whip,`zen-stick` etc
    disciple -
    guy tied up in leather straps,leather trousers with hole at bottom,where his ass hangs out to be whipped.
    thats discipl-ine.
    disciple is always wrong. his pain is always justified-disciple must thank,be grateful and grovel to master at every point for the discipline which he swears is for his own good.

    as heraclitus says,it was bloody good fun and about the best show in town 2 thousand years ago….right up there with crucifixion and disembowellment.

    me,i`ve banned bald guys with beards who say “enlightenment” from entering my house altogether.
    the smell and the feng shui has improved enormously.

  5. Shahriar says:

    I don’t think it is like that frank, although your post gave me a good laugh. The master is not on an ego trip, what can the master do if he has something to impart which the people are seeking. Would you like him to pretend that he does not have what people are seeking? The master is not on an ego trip, although people with ego always find opportunities to give more fuel to their ego. Such people find such an opportunity in being “enlightened” and in being a “master”. The catholic church is one example, the people there are not spiritual, their whole interest in in power, position, influnce, reputation etc. etc. etc.

  6. Shahriar says:

    By the way for anyone interested in the unedited version of my article here it is below:

    It is very strange, but it seems we may have forgotten about meditation. So before I talk about meditation, I want to talk about Osho’s movement in relation to who is and who is not a sannyasin.

    To be a sannyasin is something inner; to be a sannyasin has something to do with your being and not your words and actions. Actions and words are not necessarily a reflection of your consciousness, of your being. We know that people can deceive, they can pretend. We know that it is possible to be false. So it is important to understand, that to be sannyasin has nothing to do with the outer. Especially now that Osho has left his body.

    There are currently 1 billion or more Muslims on this earth. The majority of them are Muslims because they were born in a Muslim family. The majority of them are Muslims in name and in form. They fulfill all the prescribed rituals of their religion. The read the words of Mohammad etc. etc. etc.

    There is only one problem though. The majority of them do not have the experience which Mohammad had, so how can they be sure that their being is truly Muslim? The actions and words of Mohammad were a response from his being to the situation that he encountered. There is nothing fixed about his response, because his response was a living response.

    But the response of Muslims is not a living response. They are not encountering the present situation and responding out of awareness. Perhaps because the majority of them are not aware, so how can they give the right response?

    Since Mohammad is not in the body, Muslims cannot know what the right response to a situation is, unless they become aware. Those persons who hold on to the words and actions of Mohammad do not necessarily know the being of Mohammad, so they cannot say how he would respond to a living situation. And life is not fixed, life is fluid, changing. Every moment a fresh response is required, and this applies to religion also. If Mohammad has lived for 1700 years, we can be certain that as times changed, his response would change. His actions and words may not have been consistent. We can be certain that his words and actions would have been changing, they would not have been consistent with one another. Except that they would all have arisen out of his being, not out of the past. Each response would have been fresh, and it would have been an encounter with the present moment. Those Muslims know the words and the actions of Mohammad, the response that he gave to the times that he found himself in, are not capable of encountering this moment, and giving a fresh response. They do not know what response Mohammad would have given, unless they come to the same realization to which Mohammad came. The actions and words of Mohammad would have been changing, fluid, not fixed, but they would have all been reflections of his being. Today, Muslims, the majority of them find themselves in a situation which demands a fresh response and they cannot find the answer in the words and actions of Mohammad. The problem is that it is not the actions and words of Mohammad which contain the answer, the response to the moment, it is the being of Mohammad which contains the answer. That is the whole problem, To know the words and actions of Mohammad, we would go to the records and read, we would go to the schools and gather knowledge. But to know the being of Mohammad, books are not of much help, records are not of much help, because the situation today has changed, so how can the past give an adequate response to the present? To know the being of Mohammad, something else is necessary. What people call Sadhana is necessary. A Master is necessary, an enlightened one. What Rumi calls the fountainhead, the source. Someone who can help you enter the stream, as Buddha says. A living proof, a living testament.

    The majority of people who are calling themselves sannyasins, are not necessarily sannyasins. It is not words that mean anything, it is not actions which have some significance. It is the being that is meaningful and significant. Once a person’s being is a sannyasin, once a person’s being has come to the same enlightenment to which Osho came, then the words and actions of such a one will reflect the being that is within. And this being’s response may not be the same as Osho’s response. His words and actions may not be consistent with Osho’s words and actions, because times change, the situation changes, and devices will also have to be changed. The response cannot remain the same, it will have to change, it will have to be fresh, living.

    Now those people who judge persons calling themselves enlightened based on some past standard, perhaps the words and actions of Jesus, of Mohammad, of Buddha, of Mahavira will not be able to encounter the present moment. They will not be able to come into contact with a living buddha, a living enlightened one. Because their prejudice, their expectations work as a barrier to their ability to come into contact with an enlightened one who is living, who is in the body. Now an enlightened one has no obligation to fulfill your expectations, the actions of such a one cannot be judged by your standards because you do not understand the being of such a one. You only see from the outside. Just as during Osho’s lifetime, people would come as spectators and they would try to find out what is happening without becoming a participant, and that is just not possible. Otherwise enlightenment would be observable in a laboratory, we could have bottles with love, beauty, joy, truth, freedom, enlightenment and they could all be given labels. But that is not the nature of such things. That is not the way it works.

    For example, Maitreya Ishwara. He may be enlightened, he may not be enlightened. There is no way to judge from the outside. He could also be psychotic, but those people who are authentic seekers will go to him, because how can they know? Perhaps he is enlightened, and it is always good to give people the benefit of the doubt, because if he is enlightened and you are rejecting him, then you would be missing a golden opportunity. It is better to accept that he is enlightened and go to him, without prejudice, without judgment, with openness, just as Buddha went to the teachers in his area. Because if he is enlightened and you are rejecting him, this is going to be detrimental to you, not to him. He is not going to lose anything by your rejection, but you are going to lose an opportunity which you could have used for your own transformation. Especially during these times, because the 2500 year cycle of consciousness is again at its peak, and during these times enlightenment is much easier than in other times. And there is no way to know from the outside. The only way to know with certainty is through direct knowledge. Knowledge without the use of a medium, whether it is the mind, or the senses, but since there are very few people with such a capacity, there is no way to judge or to reject someone. Because there is every possibility that they are enlightened…and you are not enlightened so how can you know? How can you judge? It would not be in your best interest to judge. All you can do is to be sincere, authentic, and an intense seeker. Patanjali talks of the different types of seekers. One who is just curious, one who is interested but is not willing to make effort, and then one who is willing to make effort. This category of seekers he also divided into three degrees. One who makes 1/3 effort, one who makes 2/3 effort and one who makes total effort. Now there has always been enlightened masters, so to say that the reason I am not enlightened is because there are no enlightened masters around is to deceive oneself. The truth is that there has always been a lack if disciples and not masters, there has always been a lack of seekers who are willing to risk. For those who are authentic seekers, there are many opportunities available. Maitreya is one such opportunity, especially since there is not way to judge based on outward signs. Zen masters have often been mistaken for unenlightened individuals because they appeared ordinary. Now appearances can be deceiving as in the case of Maitreya, he may appear psychotic, but there is no way to know. There is every possibility that he is enlightened, especially since we all know that there is such thing as enlightenment, so we are not in doubt about whether enlightenment is or is not. And as I said before, actions and words do not necessarily have to agree with your expectations. For instance, Maitreya has no obligation to imitate Osho. He has no obligation to fulfill your expectations, so not to go to him would be foolish, because how do you know who is enlightened or unenlightened? And if there was any way to know based on words and actions, do you think Jesus would have been crucified, do you think Mansur-al-Hallaj would have been murdered? Do you think Buddha would have been rejected by the Hindus, and Jesus by the Jews? Why were these people rejected? Because the people during those times had expectations, they judged based on words and actions. Ronald Reagan is a fascist, but his appearance is that of a freedom-loving, democratic servant of the people. The Pope appears to be Christian, a devout Christian, but do you think that this means that he is? Maitreya may appear psychotic to some people, but we all know how Gurdjieff would change his appearance to send away people that he did not want wasting his time. So how can we judge?

    The real tradition of Osho is the conscious tradition which he has created, just like Sufism, just like Zen, Yoga, Tantra etc. etc. etc. Now this conscious tradition is a tradition of enlightened masters. The exoteric tradition has the words, the actions of Osho, but the esoteric has his being. And that is the real thing. So we have to understand that all this debate is over the outward tradition and it has nothing to do with inner transformation. Now something to remember is that orthodox Muslims have rejected the Sufis as heretics and many of them have been killed. But we know who the real inheritors of Mohammad are. Zen is not recognized by the orthodox Buddhists, but you and I know to whom Buddha gave the flower. Now do you deny that orthodox sannyasins can reject enlightened masters, because they judge based on outward signs and symbols? We all know the rumors spread about Osho in his very own lifetime. Isn’t it possible that the same thing is happening to Maitreya? Isn’t it possible that Maitreya is enlightened and you are rejecting him based on outward signs and actions. How do you know that he is enlightened? Because you are also enlightened, and you understand what state he is in? If you are an authentic seeker, you will not reject someone based on words and actions, based on rumors by others that he is psychotic, because we know that people said about Gurdjieff that he was wicked, evil, a murderer etc. etc. etc. So do not be deceived, because Jews rejected Jesus and Hindus rejected Buddha. Do you think that sannyasins are exceptional and that they cannot commit unconscious mistakes and reject an enlightened one? There is every possibility that Maitreya is enlightened, and to reject Maitreya because of prejudice or some sort of preconceived notion can be very harmful to you, especially if it turns out that he is, in fact, enlightened. Beware, do not commit the same mistake which so many unconscious persons have committed. Beware, meaning be aware.

  7. frank says:

    yes,yes,blah,blah,quite so…
    now,my boy,stop fuelling your ego,be a good disciple and bend over….
    this is going to hurt me more than it hurts you………….

  8. Shahriar says:

    Very funny frank, but have you ever been with a master? If you have not how can you say that it is wrong? I don’t like how the word disciple has taken a wrong meaning, it seems as if the disciple is somehow lower than the master and that somehow to be a disciple is to humiliate yourself. I do not think in that way. Obviously you cannot receive or learn unless you are a valley. To receive you cannot be a mountain peak. You seem to reject being in the presence of a master, but alone the journey may take many many lives, so why should we not use the presence of the master?

  9. Shahriar says:

    “I don’t like how the word disciple has taken a wrong meaning, it seems as if the disciple is somehow lower than the master and that somehow to be a disciple is to humiliate yourself.”

    Just as a sidenote, Osho may have spoken rightly when he said that it has taken 2500 years from the time of Buddha for the master/disciple relationship to be out of date, and that in the future the master would only be a friend.

  10. Kranti says:

    Words , Concepts and all definitions about enlightenment are still OUTER Shahriar.. End of the day whether awareness wakes up from the identification with a particular body-mind or not is important..

    As fas as Osho sannyasins are concerned they have double problem..Osho talked about awareness and nothingness and at the same time enjoying the journey of life totally..Most of us seems to get caught up in a so called ‘ celebrating life ‘ without actually centering inside..No matter what we talk about Zorba the buddha we all seem to be still more Zorbas than Buddhas.

    If we really stop and look within there is no ME inside. The personality is just reference point created for convenience but something which started dominatin lives.. and all these concepts about enlightenment , spirituality and people like Osho or Jesus being special having attained something are all very highly exaggerated..

  11. Kranti says:

    Even the concept of being a sannyasin is becoming more like Lions club membership.. another opportunity to belong to some movement and create a identity out of it..

  12. frank says:

    master/disciple?
    it`s feudalism.
    a pyramid.
    at the top the pharoah,divine-right king,master.
    then all the rest further down.
    keeping their place.
    that`s history.

    all the little dukes,sub-lords,devoted disciples etc take their place,still plenty below them,for “droit de seigneur” “discipline” etc.

    then they promise “enlightenment”,”salvation” and finally,and most ludicrously, “friendship” somewhere in the distant future that never comes.

    what a bunch of f###ing jokers!

  13. Kranti says:

    I love this teachers.. They just put you & enlightenmet in place if you are honest… they are not as vast as Osho when it comes to talking aboout all paths… But they are too sharp and cut you into pieces..If you listen to these for resonable time nothing will be left over..no sannyasin nothing

    http://www.kiloby.com/

    http://www.adyashanti.org/

  14. Kranti says:

    ” what a bunch of f###ing jokers! ”

    Yes frank.. You feel like shouting bloody get the hell out of my life.. enough is enough of all these spiritual crap..Especially if you are an India it just becomes too much.. too much nonsense…

    The sense of deep awareness and the understanding about the the nature of one’s own mind & its games is enough..No need to look further, But just to arrive there we go behind all sorts of enlightened special people..

  15. Shahriar says:

    That is an interesting observation Kranti. Sannyas is a movement but I do not think that it’s purpose is to serve as decorations for our ego. I do not know whether sannyas is becoming more of a lions club membership or not. Is there some particular example which led you to draw such a conclusion?

    As far as Osho’s Zorba the Buddha is concerned, I do not see why individuals couldn’t create a synthesis of it in their own lives. Now without awareness people will continue to create misery for themselves, there are millions of people without awareness in the world but none of them seem to be blissful. Something that I appreciate in Osho’s Zorba the Buddha concept is that sex is the source of your joy, not the act but the actual energy, and that it is this energy which finally becomes the buddha, and if you are opposed to the Zorba then you are also opposed to the Buddha. Now Zorba is good, but not enough, it is the right foundation, but it can become more also.

    An interesting example would be in art and creativity. The taj mahal and the temples of khajuraho and konarak are beautiful works of art. In the modern world, todays artists could probably surpass the taj mahal in their creations but without meditativeness, without silence, without awareness, you will never have the right being to allow you to create art which is more than just a “vomiting” of your internal being. Musicians today do not reach anywhere near the musicians of the past because those musicians had something more than just technical training, they had the meditative spirit. The same with poets, Maulana Jelalludin Rumi was not just a poet and modern poets do not come anywhere near Maulana.

  16. Shahriar says:

    Perhaps it has been turned into nonsense, but still I think that is not because of the mystics but because of the fools. You see many of them in india, people pretending and deceiving but still I think that this is no excuse to reject mystics outright.

    I still think that the presence of someone who has arrived is tremendously helpful, something can be gotten there which is not available anywhere else. Things become much easier in the presence of such a one. (but just be careful you don’t O/D, lol)

  17. Shahriar says:

    Let’s just delete my last comment

  18. Shanti says:

    Sharihar. Darling.I do not know you. But one thing is for sure. You were never with Osho, you were never a disciple of any master.
    Just a theoretician jerking off to his own fantasies.
    Dear, i was with Osho and this beautiful, incredible man rationalized all and every behavior of his which did not fit what we thought of him, as a device… God we had devices for everything!!.
    Until Sheela begun fucking it up… then , no more devices, just bad luck.
    Ok, the master is a guy like you and me… that is all.
    And our beloved Osho did not leave any tradition of enlightened anything. That is an invention of the disciples that got tired of bending over and decided to get a piece of cake… I understand.
    As for me. I never really bended over that much… ok, perhaps just a little.

  19. Shahriar says:

    “Sharihar. Darling.I do not know you. But one thing is for sure. You were never with Osho, you were never a disciple of any master.
    Just a theoretician jerking off to his own fantasies.”

    There you are wrong. I was born after Osho’s death, but this does not mean that I have never been with enlightened masters. Please make a difference between enlightened masters and famous enlightened masters.

    “And our beloved Osho did not leave any tradition of enlightened anything.”

    How do you know? Why shouldn’t he leave a tradition of enlightened masters? Like sufism, zen, tantra, yoga, tao etc. etc. etc. People who have the capability to continue his work?

    And Osho was not intersted in anyone bending over for him. He was interested in transforming people’s consciousness, sharing his being with them, sharing his joy and ecstacy, his awareness with them. So when Frank say that being with Osho is bending over for him is simply ugly.

  20. Shanti says:

    See darling, you were never with Osho, otherwise you will know about bending over. and do you know.t.. It is not that bad… In fact it is not bad at all. I have enjoyed it thoroughly: You should give it a try!
    Regarding tradition. How Do I know. because I listen. And he said there was no tradition with him. No successor, nothing.
    He was against tradition , even his own.

  21. Shahriar says:

    Osho never said that tradition is bad, he said that unconscious tradition is bad. Zen, Sufism, Tao, Yoga, Tantra, Hassidism, these are also traditions but they are traditions by conscious people. So when I said tradition I did not mean successors, that would be foolish. I mean people who can continue his work of transforming human consciousness.

    Now who knows what is necessary for a person at a particular time but I do not think that Osho was interested in humiliating anyone and the way Frank speaks it sounds as if being with Osho is a bad thing. I don’t like his use of the phrase “bending over”. As an example if a child is sick and a mother stays up all night caring for him, no one will call that bending over nor will anyone say that this is humiliating to the mother. The same applies to Osho and sannyasins. No one was obligated to be with Osho, people were there out of their own freedom and choice, out of their own love they did whatever Osho said. And Franks metaphor of BDSM is disgusting and degrading.

  22. Shanti says:

    Dear. You have a glorified idea of the master – disciple relationship. If you wanted to be with Osho, you had to bend over, either with him, or in my case, with other members of the community…. well that´s private, ha, ha. But seriously, Did you have to work under any of the mamas in Oregon?
    Well there was a lot of bending over there.
    Osho was against tradition, please. He just used other tradition to sneak his own stuff. If you have any knowledge of religions you will know he was using all the traditions to speak about what he wanted to speak. But he said that tradition means something that is transmitted and truth can not be trasmitted.

    You look so innocent. so young, so inexperienced… that´s sweet…
    But you do not know what you are talking about.

  23. Shahriar says:

    Do you think that by becoming older a person knows what they are talking about? Osho was often criticized because he was young and inexperienced. There are people who are 80 years old and they are still immature. Psychologists say that the average mental age of people is between 7 to 14 years. Age does not determine your consciousness, you can become enlightened at any age.

    Telling me that I do not know what I am talking about is no response Shanti. You say that I look young, inexperienced and innocent, but all you are saying is that I LOOK like this, not that I am.

    Consciousness does not depend on age, so does that mean that by becoming older a person gradually knows what they are talking about? Osho was enlightened when he was 21.

    why do you say that I do not know what I am talking about?

  24. Shahriar says:

    And please forgive me because I became angry when I read your post, and for a moment I was unconscious. I almost reacted before I realized the anger and the unconsciousness.

  25. shantam prem says:

    Shahriar,
    You are very good with words. May be this is the beauty of listening and reading Osho, that some kick happens, few brain cells get open, and without doubt Osho was aware about the power of His words and its impact the way, Hugh hefner was aware about the pin ups of his glorious magazine.
    And who knows… you are one of those souls who hanged around with Osho. For hypothetical sake, you can be even Nirvano, the closest female disciple of Osho, died under mysterious /dubious circumstances just 40 days before Him. it fits with your age too.

    But reality….
    MAy be it is in the proverb,” All that gliters are not gold.”

    Few great names you have mentioned have wonderful stories, inspiring motivational anecdotes, but after living and seeing and feeling the world around one of the most amazing master of all time, i can say most of the ancedotes are as real as the characters in the wall Disnay cartoons.

    I hope one day you make a study tour to India and can see with your eyes the naked reality of Osho’s head quarter and the enlightend ones in His liniage.

    Naked reality can be as amazing as the diamond mines in Africa.

  26. Prem Abhay says:

    Shahriar I appreciate the direction of your inquiry. Are you aware that what you are up against is all the disgruntled Osho sannyasins that did not get enlightened? They have to reject the idea of enlightenment and master/disciple relationship because they see themselves as failures. In order to cover this failure they create a fiction. I say that their failure is also a fiction. If they journeyed sincerely then it does not even matter even if Osho or any other supposed Master is not enlightened.

    Yahoo
    Abhay

    Yahoo
    Abhay

  27. Shahriar says:

    Prem Abhay,

    Osho often made reference to the fact that not all sannyasins could be enlightened at the same time, so for them an esoteric group of sannyasins was created to provide them with further instructions. So I also do not see why they should feel disgruntled. I like Buddha’s metaphor: entering the stream.

    Thanks for the compliment Shantam. Is Nirvano the girl who Osho sometimes calls vivek and gudia?

    Love,

    Shahriar

  28. Shahriar says:

    “Thanks for the compliment Shantam”

    That I am good with words, as far as being the reincarnation of Nirvano I am reminded of a joke.

    Three friends were discussing among each other when the first one said “I have often been mistaken for Ronald Reagan”.
    To which the second friend said “In my case I have often been mistaken with Bill Clinton”.
    Hearing this Mulla Nasruddin, taking a sip of beer, said “well in my case I have often been mistaken for God himself.”
    “How’s that Mullah?” To which the Nasruddin replied “Well, when I had been caught and sent to jail for the fourth time, the jailer seeing me exclaimed “Oh God! you have come again!”"

  29. Shahriar says:

    Shantam, you just wait till tommorow, fame will turn into defame, honor will turn into dishonor.

  30. Prem Abhay says:

    Shahriar I am not aware of this esoteric group you are referring to. Also the division between exoteric and esoteric is nice intellectually, but I do not see that it applies to the Osho movement. It is very spiritual to argue that the previous few threads are exoteric and political in nature.

    Unless an enlightened Master or friend chooses to disengage from the world and teach from a cave in the far corners of the Himalaya’s, then this division is not applicable. Many of Osho’s disciples that claim to be Enlightened and accept friends or followers are very active in the world. To me it would seem strange if they were not.

    I agree that those who have been with Osho will not easily accept anyone else as being a Master, especially if they are different to him. It is also generally acknowledged that he was a giant of a mystic so it would be difficult to compete with such credentials. What happens then is Jayesh and Amrito hide behind the great Master and win over the crowd.

    Yahoo
    Abhay

  31. amrito says:

    osho perhaps is the most documented enlightened person to have ever walked on earth.

    one can observe him on video, audio, pictures and I’m soon a haulo-gram version of his lectures will appear as technology advances.

    one can see his face, his talk, his walk, his life, the highs–the lows and all the different area-codes where he travelled.

    his 500-600 some books give endless insight for some, and an extensive resource of gurudom for others.

    nonetheless, atleast for me, seeing mileue of the caravan, and the experiment of commune (through videos, pictures, peoples experiences etc), I certainly feel affected by it. something did happen while he was around in the body—he certainly affected people.

    It seems that there was a contagious atmoshphere, a euphoria and tranquility…and magic. Perhaps, and a big perhaps, I’m catching the glimpse at another dimension or I somehow have experienced it.

    I remember as I went to Pune in 2006 and walked through koreogaon park through the beautiful meadow of green trees that surrounds the road like hallway—it was as if I was entering back in time.

    all of pune seemed mystical, a freshness certainly filled the air around the ashram, even beyond the pollution.

    something certainly did happen with osho and to those around him, and I can;t doubt that something continues to happen, perhaps a little more silently.

    in the west I feel like i’m seeing the seeds osho planted in so many different dimensions.

    Osho did well ($) and did good, and didn’t make a contradiction between either. He sold bliss, put a price tag on meditation, released the mind of prostitution (and got called a free-sex guru for it). he turned charity on its ass and fought poverty with luxury. gave humanity a blueprint for a great life; enjoy, let others enjoy and enjoy even more with meditation!

    and today with authors like C.K. Prahalad (author of ‘bottom of the pyramid’) who say charities never worked for the world and actuallly caused more poverty to be generated. Only when things are sold, are they valued, and only those who buy, can sell..

    we have deepak, oprah, tolle, rawat…who arent afraid to be spiritually rich and vice versa.

    so, the osho movement is certainly alive and well…but it isnt one-dimensional…and need not be.

    and it can;t be forced into mouths from people like rajneesh either!

    -Amrito

  32. Shanti says:

    Shahriar. I agree with Shantam. take a trip to India and see for yourself. that is why I say you do not know what you are talking about.
    I was with Osho and I know this guy Maitreya Ishwara. He lived in a commune with Samdarshi in Manali where a girlfriend of mine lived for a while. Her name is Sabha Stain and was the girlfriend of doctor Satyen, a German tantra therapist from the ashram. So I went to kaknal to see Samdarshi and Maitreya was there in full swing psychosis… crazy, not zen crazy. but fucked up crazy. The man was in a strong psychotic episode. believing he was the incarnation of Jesus Christ and Che Guevara… all together. Then he said both merged into him and now he was ” more” enlightened than Samdarshi… and Osho… and begun to write to people in UN and writing a book called something like the message of God to humanity. For all of us there. He was seriously ill. Finally Samdarshi kicked him out.
    When I found out that he managed to convinced some people that he was enlightened I was shocked… and now you see… even you think so.
    So, get around my boy. and see the world.

  33. Shahriar says:

    I did not say that he was enlightened. I said that I do not know whether he is enlightened or not.

    There is every possibility of his being neurotic. He certainly seems like it, especially with his talk of being a messenger of God and all that.

    So let me take my words back. I do not consider Maitreya to be enlightened. I recant.

  34. Shahriar says:

    or repent. whichever. lol.

  35. Shahriar says:

    Osho said somewhere that there are many persons being worshipped in India as paramahansas who would be considered neurotics in the west, and many people in the west who are being treated mentally who would be considered paramahansas in India.

  36. Kranti says:

    ” They have to reject the idea of enlightenment and master/disciple relationship because they see themselves as failures.”

    No Abhay.. We are not rejecting anything..It is Osho who did that for us.. He just played along with us until we got the joke..

  37. Kranti says:

    Amrito… Beautiful post.. You said so much in one post..

    ” gave humanity a blueprint for a great life; enjoy ‘

    To me that is the gratest contribution of Osho..Freeing individuals from all mental sikness and allowing space inside to live life joyously.. He was a great deprogrammer.. He gave back individuals dignity

    And that view on C K Prakalad & thers is very good connection.. I will try to deepen my understanding on that aspect

    ” I remember as I went to Pune in 2006 and walked through koreogaon park through the beautiful meadow of green trees that surrounds the road like hallway—it was as if I was entering back in time.

    all of pune seemed mystical, a freshness certainly filled the air around the ashram, even beyond the pollution.”

    Amrito Exactly this happened to me in 2002.. And i even had some out of the world experiences.. The place is still beautiful

  38. Kranti says:

    ” incredible man rationalized all and every behavior of his which did not fit what we thought of him, as a device… God we had devices for everything!!.
    Until Sheela begun fucking it up… then , no more devices, just bad luck.”

    Shanti..Thats is very good point.. PUNE 2 is a by product of Ranch certainly.. This also explains why Osho became more Zennish later on.. The disciples misused the devices and he had to drop them..

  39. Kranti says:

    Shariar: Osho openly explained later on why he had to talk about other traditions.. It ws just a bait to catch all the fish..Whatever he wanted to communicate he communicated saying Jesus said this , Buddha said that , Krishna did that etc etc ..Once all the people let go of past luggage & became sharp enough he said f.. off to all the traditions / religions..

  40. Kranti says:

    ” The man was in a strong psychotic episode. believing he was the incarnation of Jesus Christ and Che Guevara ”

    Shanti ,

    Sometime back He posted a thread asking for forming some satsang teachers association or something like that..some union sort of thing.. Never knew communism can be called enlightenment…I read just few pages of that book on Unity which was full of contradictions..

    lFew people shared similar facts about him in that thread.. He is promoting His own son in the website..May be a strong foundation to create a succesor to avoid all the problems we see now..

  41. shantam prem says:

    Is Nirvano the girl who Osho sometimes calls vivek and gudia?

    Yes

    Shantam, you just wait till tommorow, fame will turn into defame, honor will turn into dishonor.

    Shahriar,

    In what context you are saying this.?

  42. Shahriar says:

    I thought of you comparing me with nirvano, next someone will compare me with the devil.

  43. shantam prem says:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1209858/Jesus-Siberia-Ex-traffic-policeman-says-son-God-leads-thousands-followers-Russia.html

    I hope most of us have read about the”Jesus in Siberia”. Many of the Tv networks have made documantery about him. They all find him in the end, a simple Maglomaniac, but thousands of people are leaving their day to day life to be around him.

    Enlightenment is not a big theme. Osho’s contribution is immense in the way that just a 6 acres of Poona could attract thousands of seekers from all over the world. This creation of “Buddhafield “is a rare happening. May be all the fortune 500 companies with their money and man power can not create a single Buddhafield.

    And Resort in 24 acres-
    These companies can create thousands but why they should invest their money and man power into a castrated idea.

  44. Shahriar says:

    Kranti,

    Have you gained anything by rejecting the master/disciple relationship? Has any benefit come to your life? And have you ever been a disciple? If you have not, how can you say that it is wrong? With what right are you rejecting it? You have no right to reject it unless and until you become a sincere, devoted, total disciple. Only then do you have the right to say whether being a disciple is right or wrong. Because otherwise how are you going to be able to say anything about it? First you need to have a taste before being able to say anything about it, and not just a taste either. You cannot be a half-hearted disciple and say that being a disciple is wrong. You have to be a sincere, honest, devoted, total disciple. Only then can you say whether it is right or wrong. Otherwise keep your mouth shut. (no disrespect is meant) Who are you to say that being a disciple is right or wrong? Have you ever been a disciple, and not just any sort of discicple. Have you been total? sincere? honest? devoted? If you have not been such a disciple how can you say whether being a disciple is right or wrong?

  45. Shahriar says:

    I would like to say shantam that this guy must be the biggest fool I have ever seen, and his followers along with him. I have never seen such an ugly thing. One does not become a jesus by doing such things. Perhaps we should crucify him to complete the process of being Jesus. Perhaps we should crucify Maiterya also, otherwise how to prove that he is a messenger of God?

  46. Shahriar says:

    By the way Kranti, I really did not mean any disrespect when I said that. I just said it for dramatic effect.

  47. Shahriar says:

    So I am sorry if it was hurtful.

  48. shantam prem says:

    I was not comparing you with Nirvano. It was a compliment.
    Being always in the shadow and shelter of Osho, most of us have never heard or read any thing from her.
    The way she died, it is natural that she comes again in human body to complete the home work(May be just a belief).

    And the way you are writing Shahriar, it is awesome. Most of the top notch group leadres may not be as articulate to express His vision in the words as you do, so must be some stream is in your unconscious.

    But one can see also that behind this immense wisdom, you don’t have the first hand experience in this life in the dark and bright spots on the way.

    In this situation lies a big trap. During the last thousands of years, humanity has become expert in creating visionary stories about the mile stones of religious leaders.

    Look at the Tv Evanglists, they will describe last Supper of jesus in a way as if they were part of it, and power of words create taste also in the audiance mouth.

    For this reason, i like to give examples from the world of sex. So much visual and text is available around this theme, yet it is not real.

  49. shantam prem says:

    I would like to say shantam that this guy must be the biggest fool I have ever seen, and his followers along with him..

    Shahriar dear, for decades, millions of people were saying the above kind of things about our Osho. He was Bhagwan Shree or simply Rajneesh at time.

    What i want to point is that a motivating figure for few is just a thug for many.
    This applies to all the gurus of past or of our time. Main theme is whether we are evolving with someone. It is a very subjective feeling.

  50. shantam prem says:

    And when i bring this subjective feeling into the analysis, i feel confident to say that His creation of Buddhafield gave dance to thousands of water drops on the way to ocean.
    And one can see an immense satisfaction on His face that finally a scientific system has developed for modern men, which will go on evolving even after His death.

    Alas… priests mind entered the game like bacteria.

  51. Shahriar says:

    Yes but this guy doesn’t even have charisma or a message, and jesus did not become jesus by growing his hair long and donning a white robe. Jesus was a revolutionary, this guy is just an idiot. He is not even convincing.

  52. Heraclitus says:

    I was with Osho when he was alive and a commune member for some of that time, so I feel i can talk with some experience.
    Sharihar believes that by entering a disiciple master relationship one is leaving socieity. That is not the case, one simply leaves the wider society for the society of the master, and that is a mixed blessing, especially when that society is run by control freaks like Sheela, etc, who were basically damaged and in other circumstances would have been treated as mental health patients.
    Nothing, including the “notion” of enlightenment, (see Osho in his lectures on “Beyond Enlightenment”) should be immune from criticism. That’s how man achieved what little progress he has made.
    The whole business of disciple/master and enlightenment seems to be inviolate in your eyes, but have you really ever gone through the experience of living in a master/disciple relationship, etc, or in a society of seekers.
    A society of seekers can be just as destructive as any other society, closed, petty, elitist, etc. That’s why some masters more or less try and ban any organisation forming around them, Barty Long is one example.
    You need to think beyond what i take to be an Indian conditioning?
    However you are to be congratulated in shifting the emphasis at this forum away from the politics of the secular inheritors of Osho – even if it appears you did not mean to consciously do so!

  53. Shahriar says:

    Not indian conditioning Heraclitus, I was not raised in an indian mileu or in a mileu where I would be conditioned into such a pattern.

    Actually one is leaving society, because the master is established in existence and the center of existence and the center of society are different. The center of society is ego.

    And the commune of someone who is enlightened is not a society from the side of the master, it is only the egos of disciples which creates such a society. So the master is egoless, the disciples/friends are there to become aware of the ego and to drop it in the process. It is not the master that leads to pettiness, jealousy, closedness, elitism etc., but the ego of disciples/friends. I personally am gaining a preference for using the term friends of the master, or just friends instead of disciples. And dropping the word master too. The friend is simply much more human, much more respectful.

  54. Kranti says:

    ” By the way Kranti, I really did not mean any disrespect when I said that. I just said it for dramatic effect. ”

    I understand Shariar.. No problems..I was not hurt..

    Anyway this thread is a fresh breeze from what we had been going through earlier..I was getting tired..If I had carried some of that tiredness in to this thread i am sorry about it..

    What i mean to say was the master-disciple is a need of the disciple. Somewhere Osho said it is a one sided relationship.. He said there is no one at the master side to have a ‘ relationship ‘ as such…Master is an absence

    Dont mistake me.. I am totally in love with Osho because he was one of the most intelligent human beings to have walked on this earth..

    I agree with Abhay on this one point that Oso looks too vast and it is difficult for anyone to think of another master coming closer..

    My current understanding is , it is all about becoming aware of false self inside and it has got nothing to do whatsover with achieving any special states or having a relationship with outside world.. You are absolutely alone inside.. It does not matter what experiences you had and with which master you lived and how long you di that etc.,

    I could have done anything to live around Osho..But i had not even stepped into spirituality when He left the body. I was 19 and had just heard about him..mostly in a negative way..I used feel bad about it..But over the years that changed..I am beginning to be more at ease now..

  55. Kranti says:

    This s for you Shariar if yo had not seen so far

    http://www.neosannyas.org/

    “The sannyas movement is not mine. It is not yours. It was here when I was not here. It will be here when I will not be here. The sannyas movement simply means the movement of the seekers of truth. They have always been here.” – Osho

  56. Shanti says:

    I was also a disciple in a commune of seekers, so what Heraclitus say is my experience also. You can Fuck it up anywhere.
    But there is a point which I think it is more important. If you want to be disciple you need a master. and now Osho left his body. So there is no master. You can not become a disciple of a master who is not there. To have a master- disciple you need someone alive. Osho was insisting on that all the time.
    So nowadays you may like or love Osho, but you can not become his disciple he is not there to be your master.
    Sannyas nowadays is not about being a disciple, it is about being a seeker, a meditator, someone whose priority is personal development, and consciousness, not discipleship.

  57. Heraclitus says:

    There are others, they may not be obvious, sometimes when i lived in India people used to say India itself was the teacher…. the master…
    All this talk about Osho being somehow untouchable reflects only the psychology of the writer. They want someone who is untouchable. Osho and many other teachers have always said they will send others when they have gone,” just be alert, and the teacher will arise”. And that is where the energy of a true seeker should be, not this quarreling over a man who has been dead for almost 20 years.

  58. Heraclitus says:

    Shahrirar you basically commit three mistakes.
    One, you speak as if you have some spiritual or other authority. No-one has such authority over others, and when one does so it betrays a certain unconsciousness.
    Two, you seem to think, rightly that if Mohammed, or Osho or Rumi, were around today they would respond in a totally different way to the present asituation, and in the way they are with it. You are right, but on the other hand you dont want to shift at all over the paradigm of “enlightenment” as if ti is some unmoveable and “absolutely true” type of business through all ages. It’s just a very old Buddhist notion from 10 centuries ago, and very dangerous, especially now, because it trades on the old chestnut that someone else knows what you dont. Great recipy for inferiority, and needs to be ditched, and should have been ditched long ago.
    3) You seem to sway with the wind on certain topics. Osho himself had a one year period of very bad mental health when he was 19, and his father took him to many Doctors to try and sort him out. Just because Maitreya also seems to have had a period of bad mental health does not mean, like Osho, he could not recover and be of benefit to many seekers. Some argue that such periods actually authenticate the real teacher as having passed through what his pupils, etc may also be experiencing in their fight with the ego and it’s eventual transcendence. Many of the old Shamanic traditions were in fact based on such a parallel supposition.

  59. Anthony Thompson says:

    Heraclitus: Osho did not have psychotic episodes with auditory or visual delirium.And certainly he did not have megalomaniac ideas.
    If I remember well he had headaches and trouble sleeping. That is why he was taken to doctors. HE said he feared he will go insane. BUT he never had lack of reality judgment associated with classical psychotic episodes.

    Shanti. Interesting your vision of modern day sannyas. can you explore a little futher the implications of your proposal.

  60. Shanti says:

    Anthony dear.. you´re back!!
    Also my recollection of what osho said regarding when he was young is the same. i do not remember him saying he was psychotic.
    about your question.
    Sannyas can not be about being Osho´s disciple. he is gone. However it can be a school for awakening, a loose school, more like Sumerhill than Saint. John´s.
    Sannyas can be a symbol for growth, development of meditative consciousness, where Osho is a reference, but not YOUR Master. because he is not more here.
    I think that is the way sannyas is today for many young sannysins… unless they hang out with old ones who feed them all that devotional bullshit.

  61. Kranti says:

    ” Sannyas nowadays is not about being a disciple, it is about being a seeker, a meditator, someone whose priority is personal development, and consciousness, not discipleship ”

    Thats what I also feel. I personally dont see the need for a major collective movement and all.. May be humanity has reached a stage where seeking can be more individualistic and courageous..no need for complex systems .. Humanity has also seen the darker side of such systems..

  62. Kranti says:

    Have read Osho saying we need a master to surrender only because we dont know how to surrender to the cosmic.. He also says YOu can even surrener to a dog..It doesnt matter..What is important is the quality of surrender

    There were old traditions where people were bowing down to trees and rivers.. Although they would have done it out of fear ( may be out of gratitude also ) it might had been a beautiful phenomenan..I would bow down to a treee rather than to a deluded psychotic who thinks he is the saviour of mankind..

  63. Shanti says:

    Kranti. Surrender had some meaning, or at least some kind of utility when Osho was in the body… Now what are you going to surrender to?
    Even when he was in the body… it was a lot about bending over.

  64. shantam prem says:

    I know few people who are healthy and tip top.
    I have heard them discussing, what is the need of having hospitals and all this fuss about universal health system.

    I also know a doctor, who inherited a roaring practice from His father.
    This London educated doctor( his father was a local chap) his blood pressure temperature etc. when some patient enters his chambers,according to that he prescribes medicine.
    Naturally the chemist out of his clinic is closing the shop and few other doctors are doing better business now.

    And just realised, what to say about technology and science, to study history and political science kind of subjects, there are thousands of universities with hundred thousand professors, and for Mysticism and spirituality, self help books are thought to be enough….
    Is it not like buying lonely planet tour guides and feeling to know the world…and beauty is one does not even need a passport!

    .

  65. shantam prem says:

    I also know few fathers, who were very promiscuous in their life time. They are preaching abstinence.

    One such daddy was found by his son coming down from a flat in red light area.
    Son asked Daddy what you are doing here?

    Daddy replied,” Son, it is enough for me. i cannot bear your mama’s tantrums just for 50 dollars worth of things.”

    from this i remember i a face of resort manager. He was repeating, “Look Shantam, this new generation is very smart. This generation does not need all that stuff, we went through. We have made the path for them so clear, they can jump straight into Zen. This is meritocracy.”

    Few hours later i saw this middle aged gentlemen picking up a meritocratic girl who enrolled for scholarship programme just days ago.

  66. shantam prem says:

    ” Sannyas nowadays is not about being a disciple, it is about being a seeker, a meditator, someone whose priority is personal development, and consciousness, not discipleship ”…

    By the way, 17, Koregaon Park, from Osho’s death till 1999 was being run in this way. A loose gathering of seekers and every seeker chosing his type and style of meditation techniques and friends on the way.

    This new age propaganda website, http://www.neosannyas.org/
    came into existence just few years ago, because the competitors/ conservatives were creating sannyas in the old way and “masses” were following the old sannyas way..

    It is amazing how a far out Master’s life style commune has gone obsolete just in few years.

  67. Shanti says:

    But Shantam, dear, we are not choosing between Osho and something else. Osho is not here with us anymore, so we can not choose him. He is not in the body!
    My pledge is for everyone to choose whatever they want. But no one can choose Osho… he is not apart of the menu. You can choose Osho´s words, you can choose Osho´s pictures or DVDs but not Osho.
    We have to choose our own meditation techniques… who are we going to ask?
    The issue is reality. We can not go ask him. we can not even write a letter through Anando.
    I am sannyasin… a spiritual seeker, a meditator and my gratefulness to my beloved master in beyond words. But I do not have a master anymore. Not because I do not want to… but because he left. So, All I am left with is my own awareness and what he woke up in me.

  68. Shanti says:

    Beloved Shantam. let me add something more. I would love him to be here…dancing with us, telling his jokes, giving his endless speeches. But he is not. And as much as I might try to think that he is somewhere. Reality hits me in the face… he is gone. And it is not my fault. i would have never left him. He left on his own accord. Now I can live in my imagination or face reality. From him I learned to face reality. HE is no more.and I owe, at least, this to him. To be true to my truth and reality…and let go of imagination.

  69. shantam prem says:

    Beloved Shanti,
    Once this quotation was in the air,” Once you are with the living Master, you are always with the living master.”

    As a unknown Indian sannyasin living in Germany, it is not difficult to create inner warmth in extreme winter or to feel at home even in exile or to feel the same beautitude in the church what one use to feel in the Buddha hall.
    My pain and the writings of me here are for the man made demise of a beautiful experiment at Poona. To meet and feel the journey with long time fellow travelers was quite romantic and fulfilling because Sangha had the capacity to go on creating milieu without His physical presence.

    It is like, one does not miss the death of the parents that much as one feel saddened by the conflicts and quarrels erupting over the will after their death.

  70. Shanti says:

    But Shantamy, do not be naive. Of course it is bound to be quarrels. And that is not a problem. Let us all choose whatever we like. and there will be different versions of our beloved master, and each claiming to be the truth… it is part of human nature. Or you thought that we were immune to these trips?

  71. shantam prem says:

    The journey is quite tedious and there is no map. One has to create the path with one’s own foot steps. What Dr. Amrtio calls walking one’s own walk.

    Was Osho not pointing towards this tedious and lonely journey and still created five festivals, still allowed the marriage of love and meditation.

    Was it necessary to take these festivals away, just because He is dead?
    So many little little changes, and poetry shrinked into prose.

    soon we will have 11 December, this day will come and go like any other. If there is festivity in Pune, many of us would have booked the journey, to meet and meditate with like minded people.
    One can sit on the balcony and enjoy the sun, and to be with many people on the beach and have sun…is it the same experience.?

  72. shantam prem says:

    Shanti,
    Just imagine this much communication in the ashram over two cups of chai or coffee would hvae created enough bonding to go for dinner at Prem’s after white robe.
    Now… we have to think whether easyjet flies from Basel-Barcelona?

  73. Shanti says:

    Shantamy. Are you flirting with me?
    Did you get inspired with all the bending over story?
    naughty, naughty…

  74. shantam prem says:

    Look… this is i call Osho’s contribution.
    Flirting was part of the meditation course. Gurus may come and go, nobody other than Osho could dare to integrate this in his curriculum.
    Monks and nuns on the path to God, sharing some romance and flirting glimpses straight after the sermon, it was outrageous for many, for Him it became the far out way, the misfits fitting together.

    One of my wish is to bring this pure romance back in the dry atmosphare of resort. Friends and new genaration seekers like Kranti and Shahriar, should also get the taste of this necter in the holy atmosphare of temple and mosque.

    This tradition has also gone fucked up.

    in the name of zen, you are allowed to pick up the girls after the disco. Trademark sannyas hugs don’t exist but May December coupling is more evident.
    Naturally May has the beauty and December has room in the resort. This is zennis tantra, sucking the life to keep oneself fit for Osho’s work.!

    But Shanti, we are not May December. It is Basel-Barselona!
    Bending over story has not inspired me that much but the fact we have the same sannyas year 1984. Similar name…so why not let you know my address… it is
    shantamprem@web.de

    You like intelligent men. Enjoy the naughty thoughts with one such man!

  75. Kranti says:

    Shanti

    I am just stating my understanding..Didnt mean this to be a preaching from ego..

    with all the respect to your understanding…Let me know if you think this is not right

    What I understand is surrender is an inner phenomenon…Once the ego is surrendered you get the knack..you know what comes out of that surrender..peace that is always there.. Once it is known you can let go without the help of the master because you know the taste..

    In that quote above thats what Osho is suggesting..Just surrenedr and let go ..once you get the taste there will not be any clinging to external entities

  76. Kranti says:

    Bending reminds me of a joke..not exact reproduction..

    ” A maid gets pregnant and consults a doctor..

    He asks ‘ do you know who is the father ? ‘

    Maid replies angrily How am i suppoed to know who is behind me everytime i bend over ‘

    I dont think sannyasin community is that ignorant Shantam.. Everyone is aware who is behind ..Osho gave us alterness… Watch out

  77. Anthony Thompson says:

    Wow. I am gone for a while and sannyas news turns into a dating site!!
    If I would have known I would have stayed on!
    Now Rajneeshi is gone. so far, so good.
    let´s get it on!
    Shanti any room for an old professor?

  78. shantam prem says:

    Wow Anthony, this i am trying to hammer during the last many months, bring the old fashion romance and love affairs back in the ashram, meditation will flower. People can find such simple swimming pool in every village, meditation courses are as easily available as take away Pizza.

    Love and meditation, meditation and love…..This is OSHO.

    Books and copy rights and head priests who never walked single step on their own and see…a lit bit of naughtiness and professor has signed in for sannyas news.

    I hope your German Yoga expert don’t read sannysnews, though my focus is still Barcelona!

  79. Shahriar says:

    Thanks for forgiving me Kranti.

    Heraclitus I was not trying to give the impression that I have some spiritual authority.

    “It’s just a very old Buddhist notion from 10 centuries ago, and very dangerous, especially now, because it trades on the old chestnut that someone else knows what you dont. Great recipy for inferiority, and needs to be ditched, and should have been ditched long ago.”

    Heraclitus I don’t want to misunderstand. Are you trying to reject the idea of enlightenment (which perhaps should be rejected, who knows…) or are you saying that enlightenment makes people develop an inferiority complex? (which it does, especially with the whole “I am enlightened and you are not”, “holier than thou” idea)

    “You seem to sway with the wind on certain topics” If you could clarify this I would appreciate it.

  80. Anthony Thompson says:

    well Shantam… let´s get it on. lets call Frank, Shanti and why not Kranti. Imagine we would all seat in one of those huts of kapila gardens in pune and just dicuss for ours about the nature of… garlic nans… or osho´s legacy. Beautiful.
    But we keep away from rajneeshi and his dogs…
    I was reading the fight between Shanti and meera in the other Article… don´t know what to say.
    As for my Yoga girlfriend. No she is not into internet… I´m safe.

  81. Prem Abhay says:

    Kranti you ran away when the essential issues were being discussed (Anthony too). Now you pop back up and tell everyone how it is. You say:

    [Abhay] ” They have to reject the idea of enlightenment and master/disciple relationship because they see themselves as failures.”

    No Abhay.. We are not rejecting anything..It is Osho who did that for us.. He just played along with us until we got the joke..

    So Kranti it is that we have all got the joke now. How long were you with Osho? I suppose all the old disciples have all got the joke, and all the new ones that haven’t even met Osho have also all got the joke. The basis for this naivety is the spiritual ego that wants to claim spiritual superiority. It is the same pshychology that is behind all the false gurus and all the false (Osho) therapists (and that includes Dr Phil too!).

    That reminds me of a joke: Osho’s legacy has been turned into a joke.

    That reminds me of another joke: Jayesh and Amrito and the Gang, and Anthony and Kranti and Amrito have just a little bit of intelligence and common-sense.

    Anthony it is not the type of mental health problem it is the level of intensity of it. I seem to recall Osho saying that he went through a period of immense mental anguish. I recall he said that there was a time when his mind was barely able to function at all; even for a time not to know his own name – just endless days staring at the wall of his bedroom. I think that around the same time he went through a period of immense physical exercise – running up to something like 15 miles a day. Anyhow you cannot say with any level of surety what type of mental health problems Osho may or may not have had as you were not his psychiatrist! It also seems you have not done you research particularly well. Welcome back and I note that you have not answered my questions.

    The argument I here that master/disciple relationship are out of date is uninformed and misleading. People here are paraphrasing Osho in justifying this. Osho himself was the Master in a long-term Master/Disciple relationship with hundreds of thousands of people. It is a nice idea to think that Osho managed to get all these people ready for a new level of spirituality that no longer needs the support of the Master.

    Other than on grounds of physical illness in Pune 2 Osho always came out to speak to his people. At The Ranch he spent a few years in silence. If he was preparing his people for the great leap forward do you not think this strange? Was it perhaps that Osho had elevated all his people’s consciousness and now they could hang out with him in Buddha Hall as friends? I do not find this argument particularly compelling. I do not have a CD-Rom handy, but I am quite sure that while there are Osho quotes that support the idea of transcending the Master/Disciple relationship, there will also be quotes that support the idea of Master/Disciple relationship – and not just in the old-fashioned devotional 70’s era.

    If a person or group of persons would like to focus on a spirituality that emphasises the individual without a Master (or a guide or a friend) then you are obviously most welcome. It is a concept that is popular with some Westerners and mirrors the rise in the importance of the individual. However this concept of individual is equated with individual rights, freedoms, and responsibilities. It is my right and my freedom to pursue a spiritual path that does not solely emphasis the individual on the path of awareness.

    If an individual or group be Osho sannyasins, then it is their right to emphasise a particular aspect of Osho’s vision. It is however not their right to support this and criticise other views, all with support from Osho’s words and deeds: as he himself has held the contradictory position. If you want to present the argument in favour of your idea of Osho’s vision, then do it yourself.

    It is not the right of a group of Osho sannyasins to focus on one aspect of Osho’s vision if this group is the Inner-Circle. The Inner-Circle has been given the responsibility for protecting and preserving Osho’s entire legacy (not just a few parts of it) for future generations. Osho’s legacy is much vaster then this narrow viewpoint, and so are peoples spirituals paths that follow it. Do you think that only one aspect of Osho’s vision is suitable for all future seekers, and all other aspects are out of date? Even the basic argument that the quality of consciousness is the key factor in removing the Master from the path is not clear. Some people follow a more individualistic path with awareness being the foundation. Others follow paths that may include much to do with the heart and much to do with love for a Master. It is nothing to do with the level of consciousness. It is to do with the type of person. It is to do with the type of individual. It is not to do with the level individual or collective consciousness.

    What about this issue of Osho being a rich-persons guru? Do you think that the same basic structure of argument will be here also?

    I seem to recall it was Pramod that argued that the current pricing structure of the Pune resort model was in line with Osho’s vision and wishes. It was noted that if a particular country was in economic hardship Osho said that they will be able to afford to come later on. Yes and Osho also said that the concept of donations to the poor has not served any benefit for thousands of years. I have also heard that for a time at The Ranch it was very expensive to be there – I suppose that is true considering all the volunteer work contributing to the going back home penniless of so many people.

    Are you aware of Osho’s travels all over India for so many years? When he settled down so many people from all walks of life (including rich and poor) came to him to receive sannyasin. These rich and poor and all inbetween are his sannyasins. The Pune1 Ashram was not unlike any other ashram. As long as you could gather up the money for a plane (or train) ticket, with a little left over, that was all you needed to survive for six months. Do you think that all those hippies – that created the mass popularity that led to Osho eventually attracting many wealthy followers – secretly were all wealthy Westerners?

    Even if we turn to Pune 2 Ashram we see that prices were kept at levels that did not exclude people from poorer backgrounds: this was even the case for ten years or so after Osho left the body. In other words it was only when the resort model came into place (around year 2000) that prices started to soar. Of course after they did we get a few smart people quoting and paraphrasing Osho to support their new resort model. We have it in this thread and the justification is an ugly distortion of Osho.

    Yes Pramod, people can earn the money to come to the resort, and in doing shall insure they get benefit: they will get out what they put in. However there is a limit to things. What about an Indian devotee that needs to work all year to save the money that shall be spent on one week-end trip to see the Master on a special day? There is a limit to the argument! Sure unchecked donations to those that beg cannot lead to any benefit. As well unchecked hording of money by the wealthy can also not.

    The argument being played out is a fundamental division lets say between socialism and capitalism: the ‘grow the base’ argument versus the ‘trickle down effect’ argument. Jayesh and Amrito and others have taken over the Osho movement and have installed a system that appeals to the wealthy elite. It is argued that this is following Osho’s vision or wishes.

    It is not the place of the care-takers of Osho’s legacy to say whether Osho was a Republican or a Democratic, a capitalist or a communist, or which socio-political theory of wealth generation he subscribed to. Like virtually all topics Osho lived and spoke from both sides of the fence, and this current topic is no different.

    It is not about slinging quotes back and forth. The current hijacking of the Osho movement is by a group of people that sling distortions and mis-quotes and lies. Objective research into what Osho said and did that points this out is not engaging in the same game. If I stand behind a quote and argue for it this is the same game. However I am saying that you have your side of the argument, and Osho has presented and lived by this side of the argument and the other side of the argument – and indeed all sides of all arguments. This means that your position is by definition a narrow, limited, or restricted concept of Osho.

    The care-takers of Osho’s legacy did not and do not have the authority to make such decisions. To take care of one aspect of Osho’s vision at the detriment of other aspects is outside their jurisdiction. It also puts them in the position of playing selfish politics with a great Master’s legacy. This should not be allowed to continue as the more it does the more the Osho’s legacy shall irrecoverably be lost. (We are of course here repeating the same basic argument as in the previous couple of threads).

    Where does all the money come from for OIF to pay high profile lawyers to take on Osho sannyasins that simply share there love for Osho – and in a way that does not infringe on the quality of Osho’s works? Where does the money come from to have a permanent hotel suite in a 5-star hotel near the Mumbai airport? Where does all the money come from for the jet-setting lifestyle of some of the senior leadership?

    It is true that Osho has used the same arguments that are being used to justify the current approach to sharing Osho’s vision. Osho used these arguments in context to point to the problems at one extreme of obsessive donation to the poor. His arguments however are here being used to justify an obsession at the other end of the spectrum. This is not only inconsistent with Osho’s works and deeds, it is inconsistent with basic human rights and responsibilites.

    Yahoo
    Abhay

    http://oshobuddhism.blogspot.com

  82. amrito says:

    Hey Shanti,

    I agree with u that there are many people whom have turned Osho into a Guru-Idol, but I have a personal question to u. And I really don’t have an intent behind the question for agrument, but it arises more out of curisioty.

    All these years have passed since Osho has left his body—have you ever experienced his presence at any given time since?

    I know the mind plays games ofcourse, but have you ever had an “aha” moment of coincidence where somehow you got the kick from the old man?

    I can discount many times because of mind-games, but there are a few special moments of intuitive experiences which were “aha–thanks Osho”–and being absolutely certain that something was out of the ordinary…

    Anyone else recieve the kick ?

    While Osho was in the body, there were many centers around the world which functioned without Osho even being there. But the work was happening, people were meditating, something was flowing…

    So, he always set up the game from the very beginning that he didn’t have to always physically be in the picture, but something of him would be around…

    and Now, he’s not in the picture (as far as the body is concerned) but something’s around…and maybe the hint is that it was around even before he was in the “body”, and he was just hinting at that piece of existential truth… that nothingness…which was him and all?

    -Amrito

  83. shantam prem says:

    Abhay…

    You write fearlessly like your name and with powerful points.

    Let we all go on hammering, go on hammering. Rocks may turn into Rock garden.

  84. shantam prem says:

    Anthony, you have mentioned about Meera-Shanti exchange in the previous thread.

    In that Post, meera has shared an OSho talk.
    In my (Mis)undersatnding The last paragraph is the heart and soul of His work-

    “AND MY EFFORT HERE IS TO CREATE A COMMUNE where thousands of souls are in such deep friendship, in such love — as if they are all soul mates. We can release such great light into the world through that energy field! We can start such a revolution in the world, WE CAN IGNITE SUCH FIRE, THAT IT WILL GO ON BURNING IN THE FUTURE, down the centuries, helping people to be transformed, to be reborn.”

    OSHO
    The Dhammapada: The Way of the Buddha

    This quotation is the parameter. Call the place by any name, Osho Resort or Osho Airport. Osho is dead or He has left His body.

    His creation should be brought back to its original face. The present day Resort is FAKE.

    When the most documented Maestro can be created Fake, why one should wonder that world is flooded with fake gurus, selling the invisible product called meditation.

    After God and Love, meditation has become the third most abused word of our time.
    I am sure the cosmic wisdom has already changed the secret code in a way that not a single meditation technique will be able to crack the code!
    People can go on leading the meditation camps, they will not prove more beneficial than the routine gymnastic.

    Existence hopefully, is not made of the substance which can be ganged banged!

  85. Shanti says:

    Abhay you are a drag. we were having such a great time without Rajneesh accomplices.
    Uhhh.
    Amrito first. i am absolutely unable to distinguish between what you say and my own imagination. so, I do not know.
    Shantam… darling
    Anthony, I take the invitation to kapila gardens.
    Abhay… get lost.

  86. Anthony Thompson says:

    ok. Rajneesh dogs are back..
    short holiday… But it was fun.
    I am out of here..

  87. shantam prem says:

    Shanti Shanti

    To write beloved So and so…is our official sannyas language.
    To write-
    Shantam… darling

    it is just enough for today!
    time to listen Osho and sleep.

    Good night!
    In Germany, they don’ call darling but Schatz!

    ( Anthony must have heard this word many times)

  88. frank says:

    shariah.
    maybe time to quit laying down the sharia law.
    or the “vision of zorba the buddha” etc..

    “life is to take off your belt and look for trouble”
    -zorba the greek

    “without the belt,the trousers will come down too.”
    -frank

    get a few bootmarks on your ass.
    get a few too many laughter lines on your face
    get a few too many tears on your shoes.
    get a pocket full of cash
    get a hole in the same pocket
    lose your soul to a woman
    get a black eye from her husband
    ride a tiger,till you cant get off
    step into the front door of a rolls royce
    and fall out of the back door
    into the muddy gutter in a dead-end alley at midnight,no moon,raining,no dawn coming…..

    then we`ll talk about enlightenment.

    maybe.

  89. Shanti says:

    Frankie… beloved…
    refreshment on my heart…
    Please write more often…

    Shantamy good night beloved.

    Abhay learn to make a summery of your ideas and you might get me to read you…

  90. Shahriar says:

    “shariah.
    maybe time to quit laying down the sharia law.
    or the “vision of zorba the buddha” etc..”

    LOL, wondrful humor frank, right now I am going to pour me some tea, maybe then we can stop making an egotrip out of enlightenment.

    Love

  91. Prem Abhay says:

    Anthony is unable to respond and runs away, albeit with a patronizing comment. Why do you run away Anthony? Cannot you stay in your centre and just ignore me? You anyhow ignore my pertinent questions. See….if you stay it becomes obvious that you are full of uninformed hypocrisy.

    Anthony says he is out of here because of me, and this tends to make it look like I am intruding on the very productive and meaningful WAFFLE (CRAP) that is currently unravelling. This is another one of your deceptive tricks.

    If I am a puppie than Shanti and Anthony and Kranti are kittens.

    Shanti is unable to come up with anything other than offensive gutter language.

    Shanti my ideas are written concisely with no unnecessary repetition. Also, simple summaries have been made again and again by me and many others. You and others show an incapability to either understand the simple or the detailed about what is blatantly obvious. Keep sleeping and good night. I only hope your snoring wakes up a few lost souls.

    If I am a Rajneesh puppie than why do I seem to hurt you so that you react this way? Lucky I am just a puppie!!! One day I might grow up. I wonder what type of breed I am? Do you want to find out? Yap Yap!!!! Woof Woof!!! Hooowwwooollllll!!!!!!!

    Yahoo
    Abhay

  92. Shahriar says:

    Prem Abhay what exactly are you trying to say? I have not read the previous threads, they were extremely long, 400 comments. Maybe then I could give a response, after I understand.

  93. Shahriar says:

    or we could just go back to the original topic of this thread

  94. amrito says:

    comman Shanti,

    a bit more clarification..

  95. Harri Om says:

    Ciao Beloveds.

    Here is as brief as possible a summary. Perhaps Abhay may like to summarise the summary for Shanti.

    The Inner-Circle, which includes under its umbrella the Osho Resort in Pune and Osho International Foundation (Publishing), is widely assumed to have responsibility for managing Osho’s affairs after he left the body. What is not so widely politicised is a simple fact. The Inner-Circle was to function as a managerial body, but not as a spiritual body (in the way a successor would). Osho did not leave a successor, and neither is the Inner-Circle a collective spiritual successor.

    The start of the previous post – an edited version of an exchange shown towards the end of the previous thread – is correspondence between Shantam and Amrito (the Dr Amrito who is vice-chair of the Inner-Circle). Amrito’s position appears to provide a justification for the current track that the Osho movement is on. Kranti and Anthony and others sought to further expand on Amrito’s (apparent) position. Some basic concepts include a focus on individual personal development, meditation, and a clear moving away from the idea of Osho the image: for example removing pictures from the resort and demolishing the Buddha Hall pagoda.

    The arguments can get tricky and complicated. Here is one that relates to the current thread (so you see the relevance). One argument presented seems to be that the movement away from Osho the image is to prevent the false type of worship that creates a religion – in other words preventing everything that Osho (supposedly) has stood against. This may not necessarily be removing the Master/Disciple relationship because (as Jayesh has argued) we can connect with Osho if we are available. From Jayesh’s position I understand this to mean literally, rather than the metaphoric connection with the universal awareness that Osho most deeply is (in theory of course).

    In these arguments we had opposing positions taken and various quotes of Osho’s words and deeds. Keerti is a former member of the Inner-Circle and now with a restraining order preventing him from coming within 300 metres of the resort. Swami Rajneesh and Prem Abhay also provided substantial background and argument. It is interesting to note that all three people are banned by management. These people and others provided some background facts and argument that directly countered the arguments put forward in favour of the current Inner-Circle.

    In summary, one set of arguments provide explanation (with quotes and deeds) for justification of the current Inner-Circle. Another set of arguments provide explanation (with quotes and deeds) that counter this justification. For example one argument is that Osho became Zenish in style and moved away from his previous 1970’s devotional style Master/Disciple relating. However to counter this we had that Zen anyhow includes devotion and that even in Pune2 Osho was also clearly the Master in a traditional Master/Disciple relationship.

    Does this outcome lead to a stalemate? The answer is NO. The reason why the answer is no is based on the simple fact that Osho did not leave a successor and that the Inner-Circle was a managerial/administrative body, not a substitute for a successor. What this literally means is that Jayesh and Amrito and anyone else in the Inner-Circle CANNOT make decisions that involve the need for spiritual understanding or guidance. For example, Jayesh cannot use the argument that anyone can tune into the Master if we are sufficiently open and available, to give support to the notion that he is including the Master/Disciple relationship; why…because this is outside his practical mandate as chairperson of the Inner-Circle.

    The problem is that just as he and Amrito have used quotations and deeds to explain their version of Osho’s vision, others can as well do the same to provide a direct counter. This is the (apparent) stalemate position that created the last 400 comment thread (and the previous one).

    The key is that there is no stalemate because the entire exercise is in the domain of the spiritual. It requires insight into Osho’s vision, enlightenment, the ego, the growing (or not) consciousness of humanity, and whatever else. In this domain Jayesh and Amrito and any other member of the Inner-Circle have as much authority as any other Osho sannyasin. Even on this point there is no one to adjudicate who is or is not an authentic Osho sannyasin. It can either be up to each individual to claim the title, else no one can claim the title. There is no successor to give sannyas. Of course people do, but this is on their own authority – even as a ‘successor’ or enlightened disciple or whatever. Also I suppose it may be argued that if Osho personally gave you sannyas then you are an Osho sannyasin. That is fine but we all have to die (leave the body) sometime.

    The practical mandate means decisions about how to preserve and make available Osho’s legacy, ‘ashes’, or vision. The practical mandate means that decisions cannot be made about furthering, refining, or even changing Osho’s vision. The 400 comment thread and the previous thread gave weight to the conclusion that the Inner-Circle has been making decisions within the realm of the spiritual: using their insight into how to bring Osho’s vision to the world. The body of comments show that the decisions they have made give support to certain aspects of Osho’s multi-dimensional vision, whilst remove (and even coercively seek to inhibit) support for other aspects of Osho’s multi-dimensional vision. Any decision about what part of Osho’s vision is right, or wrong, or out of date, is within the scope of the spiritual. This is outside the scope of the functioning of the Inner-Circle. Hence the Inner-Circle is operating outside its authority. The body is making decisions that Osho has not granted permission to make. Therefore the current Inner-Circle is illegal and illegitimate.

    In the context of this thread we have that for some people the Master/Disciple relationship is an imperative, and for some it is imperative that the Master be in the body. For others the Master/Disciple relationship is not an imperative and their search is either an individual pursuit into meditation, or a gathering of friends along the broad seekers path. The evidence presented is that Osho supports these and more notions of spirituality.

    The conclusion is that the Inner-Circle is functioning as if it has a spiritual mandate, which it does not. The Inner-Circle appears to be offering only a partial slice or a personal interpretation of Osho’s vision. It does not have the mandate to decide what is in or out of Osho’s legacy, ‘ashes’, or vision.

    This is why there appears to be such a divide in the Osho community. What is being actively removed is a large part of Osho’s legacy, ‘ashes’, and vision. The deeply intimate or personal reason for coming close to Osho has been taken away from many sannyasins. This is why the reaction to the Inner-Circle, OIF, and Pune Resort is so great. The current care-takers of Osho’s legacy have for many people taken away OSHO: the Osho that they knew, the Osho that they loved, the Osho that they trusted.

    Of course as well as operating outside their practical mandate by making spiritual decisions about what is Osho’s vision for the future, there have also been issued raised about there carrying out of mundane matters. It was pointed out that soon after Osho left the body, Amrito said that he would explain who was in the Inner-Circle, and what the role of it was. The next day came and went with no explanation. Nearly twenty years have passed, still with no explanation. It is argued that whatever practical instructions left to the first Inner-Circle have a limited time-frame and applicability in a moving world. It is also argued that the Inner-Circle and Pune Resort management are involved in serious negligence and criminality in the operating of the Pune resort. So even at the level of their mandated managerial authority, there are pertinent questions that have yet no answers.

    Many people wonder why Prem Abhay goes on about the water and other practical issues. Who is to say who is or is not more or less spiritual. We can meditate in their presence. We can listen to their words. We can seek to understand them by their actions. Of course some Masters – like Gurdjieff and Osho – make this task very difficult indeed. However, unethical, highly illegal, and seriously criminal conduct cannot be equated with being spiritual. If a person is clearly shown to have serious detrimental negative human qualities then they cannot be said to be spiritual.

    Amrito and Jayesh claim a certain spiritual superiority. Although this is beyond their mandate they may argue that they have the spiritual superiority and therefore the right to make decisions outside their mandate. In other words they may simply ignore Osho’s instruction that they are not supposed to make spiritual decisions with respect to his vision and legacy. There are some very serious questions about their conduct in matters of the mundane that bring into disrepute their spiritual status. The questions raised are serious and therefore worthy of investigation.

    Prem Abhay raised the point that in Shunyo’s book she talked about a second circle of people – that included Maneesha and Shunyo. Shunyo was for example not in the original Inner-Circle. As part of Osho’s departing message he left who knows who a dream about who know what? Now this does not give Jayesh or Amrito or anyone else in the Inner-Circle a spiritual authority. Osho’s instructions about the practical mandate of the Inner-Circle were very clear. He also said that Anando is his medium. In the area of spiritual authority it would need to be determined if there indeed is an esoteric Inner-Circle. We are all vaguely familiar with the exoteric one that is operating outside its mandate. Also, the statement that Anando is my medium appears at least to indicate some level of spiritual authority. If for example the second list of close disciples was not considered to have a spiritual mandate, then it at least appears to be that Anando would be the sole person to have authority over any spiritual issues that may arise with respect to Osho.

    It is a little hard to sum up but I have tried to make it as summary as possible.

    Vote for change. There are three on-line polls on my blog.

    Arrivederci

    http://oshodemocracy.blogspot.com

  96. Kranti says:

    What an Ego Abhay!!! Not the first time i see such a statement

    ” So Kranti it is that we have all got the joke now. How long were you with Osho? I suppose all the old disciples have all got the joke, and all the new ones that haven’t even met Osho have also all got the joke. The basis for this naivety is the spiritual ego that wants to claim spiritual superiority ‘

    Do you mean to say people who lived with Osho are SPECIAL and they can afford to get the joke and other inferior human beings who were not fortunate to be with Osho dont have a DAMN right to get the joke.. And you call others spritually naive .. How can i ignore your EGO coming to the front and making a statement like that .. Are you hurt that i said I get the joke..

    What about a Shariar who has shown enourmous intelligence on this forum.. To me a 18 year old Shariar is more closer to TRUTH ( The JOKE ) than number of old disciples who are puppies..

    Let us face it Abhay..

    Anyone can get the joke..It has got nothing to do with living with a master for 40 years.. There is NO precondition for getting the joke..

    Osho himself got the Joke at 21 ..

    The so called glorified TRUTH is in essence nothing but getting the joke that there is no Damn truth and there is no one to realize the truth

    Osho is Osho.. Let us face that courageuously …He never gave a Damn to all these master-diciple games.. any game for that matter..He just played along until His people were corageous enough to walk the path alone.. As far as His people are concerned there is no need for any system..After understanding Osho deeply if you still need external crutches then there is something seriously wrong with that understanding..

    ” ” Kranti you ran away when the essential issues were being discussed ”

    Abhay.. I didnt ran away from essential issues..The whole idea of lacking something is very highl exaggerated idea promoted by individuals..

    I totally agree wih you and Shantam on some of your genuine points and need for balanced approach and all.. Thats only because there are lot of heart oriented youngsters who can come and a Zennish approach may be harsh on them. But thats also managed with therapies and individual guidance sessions….

    I was not keen on arguing on issues where i dont see truth.. realtive truth.. thats why i stepped away..

  97. Kranti says:

    Amrito

    ” but there are a few special moments of intuitive experiences which were “aha–thanks Osho”–and being absolutely certain that something was out of the ordinary…”

    I never lived with Osho..never lived with any living master.. But there is no shortage of such deep moments ..Where you only have gratitude for Osho for showing the path and tears..Just tears of gratitude.. Thats why I dont miss Osho as much as I do earlier.

  98. Kranti says:

    Frank.. thats was a TERRIFIC post .. Very good one..It captured so much.. Trust Shariar gets an opportunity to get few puches from his neibour.. Those punches make one human

    Shariar said ..

    ” right now I am going to pour me some tea, maybe then we can stop making an egotrip out of enlightenment.”

    It was beautiful approach even we are only sharing over a forum.. One dau he will be able to pour a up of tea and thank Osho after getting a punch.. Life is non-seriousness

  99. Kranti says:

    Welcome back Harri Om.. I am reading your post.. Seems to be a good prsentation. But we may not get into same arguements again..We had done it so much

    Hope since you are back Abhay can take some rest.. I mean Abhay part of your mind.. Thanks

  100. Kranti says:

    Frank

    I am going to print out what you posted and keep reading it daily…Superb Monern day ZEN Quote

    Hope Anthony & Oshobob enjoyed this one..

    ” get a few bootmarks on your ass.
    get a few too many laughter lines on your face
    get a few too many tears on your shoes.
    get a pocket full of cash
    get a hole in the same pocket
    lose your soul to a woman
    get a black eye from her husband
    ride a tiger,till you cant get off
    step into the front door of a rolls royce
    and fall out of the back door
    into the muddy gutter in a dead-end alley at midnight,no moon,raining,no dawn coming…..”

  101. Kranti says:

    When people told Abhay that he is repeatative but few others asked him to reproduce what he was saying in condensed form Harri Om jumps in and does that..

    I had to look up the correct meaning to understand the risk we are running here.

    ” Dissociative identity disorder (DID) is a psychiatric diagnosis that describes a condition in which a single person displays multiple distinct identities or personalities (known as alter egos or alters), each with its own pattern of perceiving and interacting with the environment “

  102. Prem Abhay says:

    Kranti you say that I and Harri Om are the same person, just displaying “distinct identities or personalities (known as alter egos or alters), each with its own pattern of perceiving and interacting with the environment.” This means that based on what you have read in the comments pages on a web-site you have ascertained that there are two distinct viewpoints. Giving this inherent distinction, I find your brilliant psychological analysis is lacking a certain level of credibility.

    Of course if your comment had come from Anthony then I would have believed that I and Harri Om live in the one blessed body. Just one question I would want to ask though: am I male or female, or perhaps a hermaphrodite?

    You completely missed the point about what I was talking about with respect to old and new sannyasins. The point was that you are assuming a lot about the level of spiritual development of sannyasins in general – old and new. Who are you to talk about the collective level of consciousness of a spiritual group? Who are you to say whether or not or if so in what way this collective group shall relate to their Master? Of course have it your way….you never met Osho and have not been with a Master, hence it is not surprising that you reacted with ignorance and anger at my comment.

    My complements to Harri Om for a decisive summary that spells the end of two decades of abuse of the Osho movement. May all beings be free, including those that are drawn to a great Master that recently left the body, yet shall remain in the hearts and minds of many generations of seekers to come.

    Kranti you speak about running a risk. The only risk I see is that you might wake up from your stupidity. Best of luck and arrivederci.

    After reading Franks poem I am wondering whether he is actually Osho’s successor.

    Yahoo
    Abhay

  103. shantam prem says:

    Frank as a compliment sake, i wish to copy your last post-

    frank // Oct 17, 2009 at 9:55 pm

    maybe time to quit laying down the sharia law.
    or the “vision of zorba the buddha” etc..

    “life is to take off your belt and look for trouble”
    -zorba the greek

    “without the belt,the trousers will come down too.”
    -frank

    get a few bootmarks on your ass.
    get a few too many laughter lines on your face
    get a few too many tears on your shoes.
    get a pocket full of cash
    get a hole in the same pocket
    lose your soul to a woman
    get a black eye from her husband
    ride a tiger,till you cant get off
    step into the front door of a rolls royce
    and fall out of the back door
    into the muddy gutter in a dead-end alley at midnight,no moon,raining,no dawn coming…..

    then we`ll talk about enlightenment.

    maybe.

  104. shantam prem says:

    And Shanti
    Good Morning Schatzi!

    and Salam Alekam to all His people who celebrated Diwali yesterday in India and in 10 Downing street and who are waiting for the Xmas! and those who still remember inbetween will be a day of 11th Decemebr !

    11th December???

  105. Prem Abhay says:

    You say that I have two distinct personalities so I thought I better post another one.

    OK here goes….I am Harri Om. This is the summary for Shanti. The Inner-Circle is operating in the spiritual domain and this is outside their practical mandate. Therefore they should be removed from office. Anando is the spiritual medium so better ask her what to do next. Also, as per Prem Abhay, the Inner-Circle and Management Team India have likely committed grave acts of negligence and criminality. There is evidence that this is ongoing, and it may worsen (even perhaps significantly). The management has failed in their basic duty of care for the physical and mental well-being of Osho sannyasins and spiritual seekers alike. They have not only functioned outside their mandate, but also failed to perform their basic practical function. Yes their mandate is to protect and preserve Osho’s ‘ashes’. However it is also to make this available to people. To make it available in a place that is a serious health and safety risk is a disgraceful hypocrisy that can not be consistent with either Osho’s practical or spiritual position. There are therefore two serious grounds for removal from office – this includes the Inner-Circle and Management Team India.

    Now back to Prem Abhay.

    Thanks Harri Om for you second decisive and trail-blazing summary. The game is up.

    Kranti how many personalities do you have? Who are you talking to in you six posts with no replies in between?

    Haowl
    Abhay

  106. shantam prem says:

    Yesterday i am added as a friend in Meera’ s facebook profile. Her face is not very clear but surely she is a woman and not Harri Om. Abhay writes in His blog with his clear facial photo.

    Those who have seen the history of last 10-15 years in the ashram with their naked eyes can relate honestly with Abhay’s long posts, to see the facts and vision of a most recorded master molested can create as much anguish as to see a brutal polic beating on Indian streets or to see a rape in some metropole subway.

  107. Kranti says:

    Abhay.. Ok I was not with Osho.. Thats not allowing to accept anything I say.. to me that is ego..But you think I am ignorant and stupid ..

    If you can interpret Osho in your own way there is no harm if i have another way of looking..

    After all you and Hari Om are the ones creating Oshodemocracy movement and speaking on behalf of others..And you think you are expressing only your view..

    Let Shanti take over in replying as you feel as i am not understanding you

    That Abhay – Harri Om thing is non-serious stuff.. You are not able to see the lighter side of it.. you seem to get upset about it..

    Even here you suggest if it comes from Anthony you will believe it … What do you mean by that.. ? Is it beacause he is psychology professor or because he lived with Osho which in your opinion makes one eligible and speacil to express views…thats makes me also wonder whether you both are really one,

    ” Kranti how many personalities do you have? Who are you talking to in you six posts with no replies in between? ”

    This is even more blind reaction from you without applying your intelligence.. I live in India ..By the time i get up in the morning i see number of posts from european friends and i respond to all the posts at one go.. Just to convince you that i am not talking on my own i can not wake up somenone in the middle of the night from another country and ask them to post in between..

  108. Kranti says:

    ” Thanks Harri Om for you second decisive and trail-blazing summary. The game is up.”

    Have never seen anything like this ..Same guy posting and immediately congratulating himself in the next post using another name..

    There is no game Abhay…The game is just an illusion in your mind..

  109. Kranti says:

    ” The point was that you are assuming a lot about the level of spiritual development of sannyasins in general – old and new ”

    Just read my posts.. I didnt assume.. this is where i do accept some views from you and i made it explicit.. But i am also looking at facts about what is available in PUNE for sannyasins at all stages of growth…

  110. shantam prem says:

    Abhay, There is only one way left and that is let Harri Om comes for your rescue and borrow some one’s face to prove he is not you.

    If you both are sincere about your cause, than it is a right time to show the clear cut distinction between you two.

  111. shantam prem says:

    How the puritians specially from Christian background have white washed the history as per their mind sets, and how they go on doing this till now is a matter of great interest.

    Just read a nice article. Instead of Indians, use the word Sannyasins, and it will show how in the clear day light, Osho’s ashram, His master piece has been censored by His own disciples who have the same Chrisitan and British blood cells.

    Most Indians now are ‘neo-Vedantic’. They think Hinduism is spiritual—the sensual was suppressed, censored during British rule.

    http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?262348

  112. Kranti says:

    Good article Shantam.. I havent read fully yet.. But the idea that Indians were sexually open and healthy but it was destroyed by Bristish is a good idea.. I like it… I will read furter..

  113. shantam prem says:

    This article is significant in our context too because Osho was the only one in the whole country who wanted to turn the wheels of religion in life affirmative way.
    Ashram was more or less a healthy dose of sensuality and sprituality, as India was before the Muslim and British invasion.
    The present set up is a J krishnamurit version of Osho. That is why those who have seen the original can easily find out the fakeness.

  114. Shanti says:

    Good morning beloved. .. a bit late though.
    Ok this is my theory.
    Abhay and harri om are the same person
    Kranti is just himself, so is Shantamy
    Frank and Oshobob are the same
    Meera and rajneesh are the same.
    Heraclitus is in reality Parmartha
    ok. I´ll go get some coffee

  115. oshobob says:

    Right Shanti, go get some coffee. But drink it strong and black, none of that half-milk/half-coffee style that the British do. Hot, caffeine, black, no sugar, no milk or cream — that’s the way to do it…

    Then we’ll look a little deeper into this ‘identity game’ here at sannyasnews…

  116. oshobob says:

    First, I would say there is no solid evidence of anything ‘real’ here at sannyasnews. All one can say is that someone is writing the posts — maybe many people, or maybe even just one person, creating multiple splintered personalities.

    Or somewhere in between. Some are writing with one identity, others have 2 or more, and others may be behind smoked glass completely and writing under one or more personas. Many unknowns here for sure.

  117. oshobob says:

    I do not write under the name of “frank” — I know that of course. So frank = oshobob is wrong. Flat out wrong.

    But, I could be lying too. If I really wanted to create a second identity, then that would be a lie of sorts — so, there would be no problem with lying to protect the lie.

    So far, I have not witten under any aliases. Do you believe that? You would have to trust me completely. But you don’t even known me, do you….

  118. oshobob says:

    Now, obviously, the posts written by Shahriar are not from an 18 year old Iranian student in America who is not an Osho sannyasin. The writer has extensive knowledge of the sannyas world and Osho’s vision. Sounds to me like a veteran sannyasin with 30+ years of experience under the belt. Who writes them is unknown (except to the person who writes them…)

  119. oshobob says:

    Also, a fact that many people tend to overlook is that in creating “covers” and false identities, the opposite and fighting factions are many times really on the same side, created by the same person, or at least the same organization.

    So for example, Abhay, who is seen continually railing against Doc Amrito and the Pune Resort, could actually be working for them. Or, if you stretch that, maybe Abhay is actually Doc Amrito. Both have a history of being obsessed with the water contamination issue — Doc Amrito devoted a whole chapter in his book to the amoebas and shit in the water problem in Pune 1, and as we all know, Abhay also goes on and on about this subject in the present day….

    But, then again….maybe not.

  120. Kranti says:

    Shariar did open a facebook account and posted some photos..The photos look like that of a 18 year old iranian.. but photos can be deceptive..

    before someone goes back to the question of whether i am a male or female i am confiming that i am a male Indian , 40 years old guy not gay , normal.. no personality disorder ..Kranti was sannyasin name given by pune, my only problem is my hyper active mind ( as per a doctor who told me this some 17 years ego.. I am greatful to him as he frieghtened me so much and made me look within ) ..thats why i listen to Osho..think it is good enough

  121. Kranti says:

    Oshobob seems to be a bit Krantish in posting continous messages..You will be questioned oshobob..be ready

  122. Kranti says:

    ” but photos can be deceptive.. ” I meant photos can be false..

  123. Shanti says:

    Ok. sobered up after some coffee
    Oshobob I agree you are not frank. Your wittiness comes no near his. I also agree about the 18 year old iranian boy…although, you can tell the man in inexperienced. so it might be true… but he is for sure a sannyasin.
    Abhay and harri om are no doubt only one person, a male for sure… Although I never read the whole thing he writes… but he seems to be writing about the same over and over.

    Now Amrito´s question. I have had deep moments where I have felt touched and felt my deep love and gratitude for Osho. Poetically i could say “I have felt His presence”, but in reality that could very well be my own mind projection. Actually that is what I think it is. But there is no harm. Because it does not really matter. what matters to me is the preciousness of those moments. I do not think Osho, as I knew him, is anywhere… but the space that i felt in his presence is with me…

  124. oshobob says:

    Showing emails, facebook accounts, photos, names, countries of residence, histories, knowledge of the subject being discussed, etc. are all part of alias covers. That information cannot be believed. Remember, there are people all over the world who do this type of thing for a living — it is their professional career. Some work for governments, some work for private mafias, and some even work for families. Businesses too employ undercover agents. This has been going on throughout human history in all cultures. Why? Because it works.

    So for example, if Shantam demands you show your identity by photos or a facebook account, it’s really meaningless. Anyone wanting to project a cover would just throw out some bogus info, photos, etc. In fact, Shantam himself could very well be an undercover agent — they are always pressing for personal info, for the ‘file’ on you. Shantam could be working for OIF and the Pune Resort, ferreting out the opposition with ‘wicking-out’ tactics, to expose the adversary.

    Or maybe not…

  125. Kranti says:

    Only today evening I saw a 48 minute video clip on early Osho days ( i had not seen it before ) where sannyasins mostly indians look & dance with devotion , people gifting a cow to Osho for his birthday , rituals being conducted for the cow as well as for people around , pooja performed for even a car by Osho’s father , everyone trying to touch Osho’s feet and there was so much bhajans…

    In contrast to all this Osho seems to be the same Osho … That beautiful , Sharp and provocative master.. speaking in the same way on the same aspects of man.. I will say he looked Zennish even in those days …The core of what he was saying does not seem to have changed..Seems he simply allowed and accepted everything around Him and slowly created ‘ His people ‘ .. the growth seems rather that of His people and not His.. It has to be so.. Isnt it? This has made me even more get convinced that things are alright as they are..mostly

  126. Kranti says:

    Yes Oshobob.. Was looking at some videos on ‘ Elvis Presely did not actualy die but he disappeared as part of witness protection program’ type of stuff.. you never know..History is full of lies..

    Who knows even Osho might not have left the body..May be He is reading all this crap stuff posted by His so called intelligent and sharp sannyasins..

    May be He is the moderator of this forum..

    May be not..

  127. oshobob says:

    Personas can be created easily…in fact, human beings do it all the time internally. Everybody knows this. Children learn it very young and continue it throughout life — that’s why meditation was created in the first place — otherwise there would be no need.

    I used to watch TV in mainland China when I lived there, and they would show these “shadow box” plays — one man behind the screen moving hinged cardboard figures, creating silhouettes on the screen that the audience could see. The man gave different voices to different characters as he moved them through the dramatic production. Really fascinating — how easily it is to get people to suspend belief and watch your play, thoroughly engrossed in the scenes….

    Is Osho a man like that? Creating people who play roles in a drama for him and his vision? Is Sheela really the evil mama that she’s made out to be? Are Amrito and Jayesh really the inflexible power hungry dudes that they are imaged out as, or are they simply playing their role for the master producer…doing their job well…

  128. Kranti says:

    Ya..Whatever they did/do they seems to have done/doing totally..

  129. Heraclitus says:

    Those who were around at the time, describe Osho as having a massive nervous breakdown between 19/20. Funny how Anthony wants to downplay this. Even in his poor mind Osho is somehow someone superior to the others.
    Osho’s father and family were very worried about him pre-enlightenment age 19/20. . Not just headaches certainly. Have a look at pictures of Osho pre-enlightenment and you will clearly see if you have any experience in the helping professions a seriously disturbed man. His father dragged him to the far corners of India seeking out a Doctor to help him.
    This is no problem to me, it even authenticates his later development. But for the spin doctors, etc it presents a problem so they downplay it, say like you, it was not a schizophrenic episode, etc, just a neurosis. Most shamans in many cultures went through similar episodes, as did Jesus in the desert.
    Remember those voices Jesus heard…. Voices are not all bad…
    you have been mixing too much with the Anandos, etc of this world who have no real knowledge of the agony that real spiritual development entails.
    .

  130. Kranti says:

    Just googled Osho and puppet together and got this..

    ” And remember one thing: everybody is doing his work. Nobody is to dominate anybody. Yes, everybody is allowed to suggest, to help, but to suggest and to help does not mean that you are being made a puppet. Nobody is a puppet here. It is a gathering of absolutely independent individuals.”

  131. oshobob says:

    Now Shanti, if I actually were frank, do you think i would duplicate him? That would be dumb. I would modify his character — maybe less witty, more American, less British — otherwise what would be the need for a new character?

    But as I have said, I am not frank. I am not that cynical.

    And another thing about frank that i’ve noticed is that every time he writes something, there is immediately a follow up post by someone else, saying how funny that was frank, how witty that was frank, and so on. makes me think the commentators are shills in the audience, in cahoots, clapping for frank. Throws up a red flag for sure…but, the guy really is funny, no doubt about it…

  132. Kranti says:

    ” no real knowledge of the agony that real spiritual development entails ‘

    I heard UG describing awakening as a nightmarish and painful experience.. Although i have never heard anyone else describing like that.. But to me UG was kind of ‘ lost out in the enlightenment race and gone mad ‘ case..so i dont care about the agony he went thru..

  133. frank says:

    hi oshobob,

    there was a young man who said “though
    it seems that i know that i know,
    what i would like to see
    is the “i” that knows “me”
    when i know that i know that i know”

    -the genuine fake himself

    all the world`s a stage and all the men and women really players……….

    that`s the “vision”
    for me.

  134. Shanti says:

    Frankie. i request you talent now.
    Can you say something deep, funny and witty about abhay- harri-om- rajneesh accomplice.?

  135. frank says:

    oshobob,
    are you aware of the background of the word cynic?

    cynic is derived from the latin word “canis”meaning dog.
    diogenes the cynic was,if you remember rightly,a naked man on a beach with a dog.
    in one of osho`s versions of the famous story of diogenes` meeting with alexander the great,he even had the dog laughing at alexander.
    diogenes went on(in osho`s account)to taunt alexander, saying “look at my dog,he is happy,more so that you,he doesnt need to show the world how `great` he is etc.
    this story illustrates diogenes` central “cynic” proposition — that humans were in no way better than dogs,despite all their pretensions to culture and refinement and greatness.

    i love dogs,too.

  136. Shanti says:

    … and the request frankie?

  137. shantam prem says:

    Those who want to buy EnLIDLment-

    “It is certain that in my earlier teachings to you, enlightenment appeared to be much easier. It had to, because i did not want you to freak out.
    Now i can trust that even if i say the truth you are not going to escape.
    Enlightenment is not easy”- Osho

  138. shantam prem says:

    Shanti ji,
    You have found it out who is who in the double roles game, and now what about you?
    How we will recognise you in Kapila Garden?

    If you want Meera not to pretend as Shanti….
    than your facebook photo will be quite helpful, also for flirting purposes!
    I think Prof. Anthony thompson will be glad too.

  139. Swami Dhyan Anurag says:

    Shahriar

    We need to thank all the muslims and learn to respect muslim mosques just for one simple fact that although Osho’s birthday, 19 january, Enlightment day, Masters day is Banned and not allowed to be celebrated or remembered in the Resort
    strangely the Maulana Azad Mosque near
    German bakery celebrates all these four celebrations in their Muslim Mosque and also allows to sing all the old Osho songs with great celebration and dance

    So who are the fanatics today ??

    And strangely again the Vatican and the Osho Resort have a common celebraton of Christmas and
    New Years Day with great drinking parties for 7 days

    What a shocking turnaround of Osho’s dream

    I am ashamed to be a sannyasin and live to see such a fanatical deluded managment of the Poona Resort inner circle which Swami Rajneesh correctly calls
    the 21 Baboons

    Dhyan Anurag

  140. Kranti says:

    In the great pilgrimage ..From here to here He says enlightenment is the easiest thing in the world .That for everything else yo need to make effort not for enlightenment for which no effort is needed..

    It all depended on the nut he wanted to crack..

  141. Kranti says:

    Shanti you are pressurizing Frank to be creative..he needs to flow..Dont worry..he will come up with a good one

  142. oshobob says:

    hey frank, thanks for the responses, i liked your expose of the root etymology of the word ‘cynic’, as it has gone through a lot of subjective changes from ancient Greece…right, never used to have a perjorative connotation at all… i’ve had to explain this innumerable times myself to others when i have been “accused” of being it…

    and here’s a possibility to ponder, on the line of thinking of creating your own opponent in a new identity for public purposes:

    Anthony Thompson is Christopher Calder.

    Tony, whadya think?

  143. Prem Abhay says:

    Shanti you want Frank to say something witty about your triple conspiracy theory because you do not believe it yourself.

    OshoBob you make a good point about duplication. If I am Harri Om why do I write in a similar linguistic style about similar topics? Perhaps I genuinely have a split in two personality.

    I think OshoBob is working for the CIA.

    OshoBob I agree with your opinion of Shahriar. If you look through the posts there have been some strange reactions to criticisms of very old sannyasins.

    OshoBob your theory about me being Doc Amrito is wrong. Check out my recent article on OshoWorld. It is now on the home page, a few down in the news section: Who Is Amrito?

    Shanti you think Shahriar is inexperienced. I think that this is just a cover – same as being a student at university.

    Shanti you are right that I am Harri Om. Now I feel whole and one. Thankyou so much for your gift of enlightenment.

    Kranti you have no idea what I am saying and are being delusional (psychotic). Your comments about old style Osho really being Zen and just waiting patiently for us all to be transformed is further delusion….mostly

    Now here is my lengthy article. Shanti and Kranti and others just scroll down to the next comment.

    The leadership of the Inner-Circle and Resort Team India has shown a blatant disregard for the mental, physical and emotional well-being of people in general: sociopathy/pyschopathy.

    If I read correctly what Jayesh has emphatically said, it is that we are literally able to connect with Osho’s presence if we are sufficiently available. It is very likely that Jayesh considers himself sufficiently available. Further, if he believes that he can be with the presence of Osho, it is also reasonable to assume that he considers that he can communicate with him: channelling. I am of the opinion that Jayesh is therefore out of touch with reality and is psychotic (delusional).

    It is not typical for psychopaths to be delusional (psychotic), but it is possible.

    Jayesh also appears to me to fit in the category of megalomania. Though megalomaniacs are not necessarily delusional (just obsessive) about their ‘greatness’, they often are: hence the typical saying delusions of grandeur.

    Other people in the Inner-Circle and Management Team India and Osho International Foundation show similar psychological traits.

    I have read on a site about the enneagram that in worst case scenarios the “boss” or Number 8 personality may become very violent, commit murder, and destroy everything that is seeking to stop them.

    If Jayesh believes he is in literally in direct communication with Osho then he will not find any of the previous arguments particularly convincing. He is carrying out Osho’s vision according to Osho’s wishes because he is talking directly with Osho. Obviously if this is his position he will not think much of people telling him to stay within his practical mandate. He will therefore not listen to reason and is therefore quite unstoppable. He is also the leader of a religious Gang, and so it is unlikely that the others in the gang are free of serious mental dysfunction.

    Haowl
    Abhay

  144. Dear Harri Om

    I am glad to see you back and I love this clear new meaningful insight from you.

    We all know that people took Sannyas because of their Love for Osho and Love was the main binding reason for millions of Sannyasins to come to Osho.

    Love creates Trust
    Love means Gratitude
    Love means Surrender
    Love means Devotion
    Love means Remembrance
    Love is the way of the Heart
    Love brings Sannyasins together

    And now we know and can feel that this Golden key of Love is missing from the Resort

    “The deeply intimate or personal reason for coming close to Osho has been taken away from many sannyasins. This is why the reaction to the Inner-Circle, OIF, and Pune Resort is so great. The current care-takers of Osho’s legacy have for many people taken away OSHO: the Osho that they knew, the Osho that they loved, the Osho that they trusted.”

    I saw your weblog and it seems that Swami Rajneesh is ahead. Can you comment on clear points that Swami Rajneesh has raised here. His clarity and pointed bold questions to inner circle seems to irritate and offend many people.

    But i feel that there is clear sincerity in Swami Rajneesh and he is talking on behalf of thousands of Sannyasins. Why is that the Sannyasins do not bother about such important issues?

    Hari Om to you Harri Om
    Swami Amitabh

  145. frank says:

    dhyan anurag,
    those arent great drinking parties at the resort.
    thats nothing.
    you should come to my place xmas/new year
    forget about a few baboons and old monks drinking old monk rum.

    i only invite bobobo apes to mine and its sex,booze and drugs and rock `n` roll all the way.

    you probably have never read “zorba the greek”by nikos kazantzakis,or you would realise that zorba was an alcoholic with a penchant for tall stories,fighting and chasing young girls.

    osho said in a straight choice,he would choose zorba over buddha every time.

    come on man,quit pretending to be an outraged buddha,and hanging out down the mosque with all those other guys who think that growing an apostolic beard and moaning about the lapsed state of the world is where its at…
    crack a smile,crack a few beers,get your robe off and grab yourself a few hippie chicks and get down before its too late…

  146. Shanti says:

    No, please, no more rajneesh here…
    O swear to god I´ll leave like anthony…
    and Shantamy will be very pissed off… just see.
    I like the idea that Anthony is Calder… Groovy.
    anthony what do you say?

  147. frank says:

    i meant bonobo apes.
    sorry bob.

  148. oshobob says:

    Abhay, yes, I could be working for the CIA. It’s possible, and sometimes I wish I was — at least I would drawing a consistent paycheck to pay my bills…

    You’re aware of course, that the CIA (and other governments’ agencies too) all have infiltrated Osho’s sannyasin world right from the very beginning. That’s their job.

    In fact, it is highly probable that some have parlayed this assignment into a lifelong career. They are Osho sannyasins from way back, veteran “beloveds”. Some people have even postulated that they got as high as the 21 member Inner Circle, all with Osho’s knowledge….

    But, a professional undercover agent would definitely wear the robes and mala, do the meditations, visit the ashrams and communes, and rise as high as he could in the organization…or, should I say “as she could” — it’s well known that many of the successful plants are female — “honey traps”, as they’re called in the business….

  149. This ‘One man army’ Swami Rajneesh is creating such a rebellion and a fire that thousands are listening to him and supporting Rajneesh when he points out these important Sannyasins issues.

    His bold challenge to the authority of the inner circle is making a new wave of rebellion. Because his words have strong fire and he has his own authority.

    His continuous attacks, with No strong response back from the inner circle is making them look very stupid and is a great public humiliation and defeat for Amrito and Jayesh.

    It seems that If they don’t make a strong reply against Rajneesh, Then Sannyasins opinion will shift towards him as the only clear rebelious voice in sannyasins today

    Every Sannyasin now knows the inner circle named the 21 baboons and If this continuous then it will become a fashion to call them baboons which will erode their authority in the eyes of the whole world.

    So I feel that the inner circle should make some public newspaper announcements like they did in the case of Ma Neelam or atleast make announcements worldwide and also on this sannyasnews forum

    Are they really so afraid of Rajneesh?
    then it seems that truth has some real power and fire.
    And new seekers are always magnetically attracted to such rebels like it happened in case of Acharya Rajneesh days

    Many new things are coming out everyday from Rajneesh and everyday he is growing in love and respect with all sannyasins

    love
    amitabh

  150. shantam prem says:

    Few hours ago, Bob has written-Now, obviously, the posts written by Shahriar are not from an 18 year old Iranian student in America who is not an Osho sannyasin.

    Shahriar, Please tell us since when you are reading Osho and your fascination with Osho movement.

    I know we are facebook buddies and i have your date and time of birth too, for astrological study though i am away from astrology for a while.

    I think it is a compliment for your inner sannyas that vetern like Bob can think that may be your Dad is dictating your posts.

  151. Prem Abhay says:

    OshoBob, any drama that deluded and deranged Osho cults create is nothing in the big picture. The hub of the wheel that keeps Burma, North Korea – and perhaps more so in the future the Middle East and northern Africa – spinning is CHINA. The Chinese single party communist dictatorship has an horrendous human rights record internally. It props up all the other brutal regimes. It is, as you know, a country with a deeply religious heritage. Falun gong is a little helpful. What China really needs is the life positive message of Osho that is based in deep Zen and Buddhist heritage. This was what drew me to Osho. I am very much in love with the Buddhist way, and to me Osho reflected all the essence of Buddhism, yet also had the flavour of Frank the Zorba. This is what China needs to kick out the biggest craziest nut-cases on this planet. The Chinese politburo need to be removed from power.

    Haowl
    Abhay

  152. Alok john says:

    When I was around the Dutch sannyasins in A’dam in the 80s, I heard a story that someone from the Dutch secret service infiltrated the commune. In the end he fell in the love with the commune, told the sannyasins he was from the secret service and apologised to everyone.

    I am sure the CIA collected information about sannyas and probably had infiltrators particularly in the early days. I would not have thought it was worth their while to keep operatives involved for decades–probably very boring for them. I suppose there must have been FBI plants at the Ranch.

  153. Shanti

    No, please, no more rajneesh here…
    O swear to god I´ll leave like anthony…

    Shanti it seems you have no choice as every major blog and most websites are talking about Rajneesh

    And as read in blogs 6 new wesbites are coming up soon and also his book is now downloaded over 350000 copies
    as you are from Spain please know that his spanish book is coming out in one week so you can also read and then very easy to attack him after reading the book
    Tears of the Mystic Rose

    then you can cry or laugh and we will all enjoy and again talk about Rajneesh

    And since you are willing to meet Antony in barcelona
    i am also coming there soon and would like to meet you and have your views about Rajneesh directly over tea or dinner

    Amitabh

  154. frank says:

    swami amitabh says:

    “it will become a fashion to call them (the inner circle) baboons which will erode their authority in the eyes of the world”

    hey amitabh,i write the comedy around here!

    but seriously.
    you are really onto something here.
    dress up in a lunghi and call people baboons.
    what a masterstroke!
    the eyes of the world will come to see the truth immediately.
    for sure.

  155. shantam prem says:

    What makes me wonder is that people who became sannyasins during Osho’s life time are getting firey because of Rajneesh.
    These silent spectators are speaking the obvoius truth after listening Rajneesh.

    In that sense Rajneesh has created his place in the history of Osho movement by pumping the air in the flat cycle tyres.

    For sure, we are very close to a mutiny in the world of Osho. Sooner or later Jayesh/Amrito team has to take into consideration that they have gone too far.
    Because of their stupid decisions to change the blue print of Osho’s work in Poona, Rajneesh has become a folk hero.

  156. oshobob says:

    Alok John, …you think it would be very boring for a CIA agent to work undercover as a Rajneeshee?!

    Loose robes, dancing all the time, hopping in bed with a beloved for that intimate meditative experience, smokin’ a little hoochie, traveling all over the world, swearing and venting your emotions anytime/any where, sitting on your ass for hours in silence…hey, this is what everyone dreams of doing when the factory bell rings to end their shift…

    And as someone who knows a bit about the type of person that was attracted to sannyas, Alok, a CIA undercover agent and an Osho sannyasin are not very far apart in a personality profile — a somewhat dysfunctional family history, loner at heart, seeking excitement and adventure, alias identities and clothes,
    connecting to counter culture society, willing to follow orders but not really liking it, …..and on and on.

    And, they get paid to do it!

  157. Shanti says:

    I hear one more comment on Sw. Rajneesh that is not derogatory and i tell you, I leave this forum. the only way anyone can be impressed by this bozzo is that he was never with Osho or is deeply angry towards nowadays inner circle, otherwise it is a joke for anyone with a little intelligence.
    the guy is parading in a maroon lunghi and an extremely poorly written book, advertising himself as the new sannyas fire. profiting from his name, selling himself as a devotee, when in reality he is just fishing in sannyas waters for his own grandeur… it is sickening really.

  158. oshobob says:

    Also, Alok, that heartwarming story of the sannyasins in Amsterdam melting the facade of the Dutch agent and eliciting his apology sounds very sweet indeed, but remember, The Netherlands is a dump — a one time global colonial power, that is not on the world stage anymore — kaput! Who cares about the quality of their agents.

    If that wimpy, waffling agent were in the States where the vested interests are concerned about their power, he would never have been hired in the first place. He would have filtered out long before he was put on assignment.

    Nice enough story though — maybe a small consolation for the continual decline and demise of Europe in the modern world.

  159. frank says:

    come on,admit it bob.
    the real reason you are into all this sannyasX-files stuff is because you were an oregon highway patrolman, in wasco county in the 80s,which is how you came to have a personal meeting with the bhagwan in his rolls on a quiet road while you were on duty.

    the truth is out there,bob…….

  160. oshobob says:

    frank, if life were only that easy…

    but, alas, it’s not so….

    those highway patrolmen get a decent salary, good medical and dental benefits, and a guaranteed pension, sure…but you have to wear those stupid looking wide brimmed hats all day long — I could never do that. I would feel embarassed.

  161. shantam prem says:

    Shanti,

    I am sure it is a sickening reality for many of us who have seen the rise and fall of Osho movement during the last 20 years.

    Rajneesh is a product of this reality.

    Why it happened?

    Why there is so much anger against the head priests of the ashram, please share your analysis.

  162. Shahriar says:

    “Oshobob I agree you are not frank. Your wittiness comes no near his. I also agree about the 18 year old iranian boy…although, you can tell the man in inexperienced. so it might be true… but he is for sure a sannyasin.”

    Whoever wrote this, I am curious to know in what respect they think I am inexperienced. I am not interested in proving them wrong, but i was curious.

    “Shanti you think Shahriar is inexperienced. I think that this is just a cover – same as being a student at university.”

    “Few hours ago, Bob has written-Now, obviously, the posts written by Shahriar are not from an 18 year old Iranian student in America who is not an Osho sannyasin.”

    “I think it is a compliment for your inner sannyas that vetern like Bob can think that may be your Dad is dictating your posts.”

    I really am an 18 years old iranian american student. So I gues this is a compiment. I found a copy of Osho’s book of secrets in my dads library while I was 11 or 12.

    “Vote for change. There are three on-line polls on my blog.”

    Harri Om, while I agree that Jayesh and Amrito have done wrong, by banning people who think differently than they do, ignoring issues such as water contamination, restricting freedom of sannyasins etc. I think that democracy is the wrong way. (By the way, sometime ago I suddenly thought to myself that perhaps Harri Om is a CIA agent who is trying to destroy the Osho movement.) Democracy will degenerate Osho’s buddhafield (if you call it such a thing.) into an election ground. Anyone with enough votes, anyone who is appealing to the crowd will be able to harm Osho’s movement while appearing legitimate. You assume that voters make the right decision. You trust in the judgement of the unconscious people too much. You seem to forget that Socrates was poisoned in a democracy, you seem to forget that Osho was poisoned in a democracy. Jesus was crucified with the support of the majority. Mansur-al-Hallaj was also murdered with the support of the majority. If unconscious people could poison Osho, Socrates, crucify Jesus, murder Mansur-al-Hallaj, you want these same unconscious people making decisions? AND WHAT IF…what if someone who is an enemy of the Osho movement but who is a good actor, a good speaker comes into the movement and does great harm to the movement. What then? All because of your democracy.

    (Harri Om could also be an agent of the vatican, since we know that sooner or later the whole west is going to turn towards Osho and leave the christian fold. If Osho was capable of taking the cream of western society out of the christian fold, that just means that sooner or later everyone is going to jump out. We all know that Christianity has nothing to offer, all it has to offer is belief.)

  163. Shahriar says:

    “what if someone who is an enemy of the Osho movement but who is a good actor, a good speaker comes into the movement and does great harm to the movement. What then? All because of your democracy. ”

    Harri Om, something more to add:

    Pune is supposed to be a managerial body so I dont think the above situation could happen, especially since Osho did not leave a successor. And as far as enlightened sannyasins are concerned they do not need anyone’s authority. Anyone calling themselves Osho’s “spiritual successor” would be simply a fool and a liar.

  164. shantam prem says:

    Shahriar,
    Few corrections of the tenses-
    since we know that sooner or later the whole west is (WAS) going to turn towards Osho and leave the christian fold.
    If Osho was capable of taking the cream of western society out of the christian fold, that just means that sooner or later everyone is(WAS) going to jump out.

    Open your eyes friend and instead of blaming the Christianity appreciate the fact that one book religion has survived for centuries and 6oo books Osho’s movement is sinking like a Titanic!

    We have become expert in bringing us on the mountain top and using sarcastic remarks for all the religions, all the poltical and social system without bothering that What Osho says is a fact but when we say the same … it is just childish….

    It is a leadership failure and not a distict future will show who were the implantaions of vatican!

  165. Shahriar says:

    Actually, the earliest christians were in the same boat sannyasins are now. So you just give it a little time.

  166. shantam prem says:

    Shahriar,
    just want to know, have you ever feel gratitude for Christian America, who gave shelter to many of your folks coming from few of the worst regimes on the earth.

  167. Shahriar says:

    All politicians are corrupt, basically because they are concerned with their power and position rather than with doing what is right. So not the politicians, I consider them criminals.

  168. Shanti says:

    Shantam You ask me why i think all this happened.
    In spanish we have a saying “when the cat is not there the mice are in for a party”
    Can you imagine RAJNEESH IN OSHO´S TIME.??
    He would have been hang from the top of the pagoda. But no, then he was a slow-walking shy guy. Now he is a fiery-whatever. But then it would have been dangerous. banned would have been the lesser evil for him.
    Osho left a great business for the ego and the pocket, without a head. Just a group of 21 guys and girls who were his pals in the last years.
    I do not like many things in the ashram now, I hate the word resort. Although I was there in budda hall when it was announced… we all laughed then. We thought it was a joke.
    But hey, the 21 are by far the sanest in the whole circus. At least no one is declaring himself enlightened…. and offering guidance to anyone. And these were the guys our beloved talked to everyday. If we talk about bending over. these people lived with their bellies touching their legs.
    And finally they suggest. be yourself, walk your path. In every time I have been there no one has told me how to be a sannysin. I have been there with and without mala…and noone has ever bothered e at all.

    Now everyone can declare whatever and profit from the “legacy”. For me if anyone has something to offer they should open their own shop, with their own brand. .. otherwise it is just exploitation…it is like using the word coca-.cola to sell lime juice.

  169. shantam prem says:

    Shanti darling,

    Yesterday i have seen the google ad. of rajneesh while opening the sannyasnews.
    curiosity sake, i opened the web site.
    1970 Acharya Rajneesh was taking meditation camps, 2110 Rajneesh is taking meditation camps; somewhere something inbetween must have gone wrong…

    As it is said, Big machines fail because of some small wiring defects.

    You seem to be an intelligent, impartial and well traveled sannyasin on the path( For this reason, i feel to flirt too), please please, share your insights about Osho movement, and prognosis, in which direction it is heading!
    You seems to have no vested interests in any group and sub groups, so i presume, many will be quite attentive to read.

    Good night, babe!!¨
    (Lol)

  170. Shahriar says:

    But I do feel gratitude for the humanity of those who “gave shelter to many of your folks coming from few of the worst regimes on the earth.”

  171. Harri Om says:

    Shahriar you do not understand that Jayesh and Amrito are aligned with the Vatican. You also do not understand that they are the one’s (just like Sheela) that have infiltrated the Osho movement intent on its destruction.

    Of course you argue that democracy creates problems and I argue that dictatorships cause problems. Both have examples throughout history, in the present, and shall continue on.

    One way out of the argument we are having is one straight out of Frank’s handbook. You are arguing based on what you have read. Go to Pune and find out for yourself and then comment. Just remember that I would not drink the water, eat the food, go inside the auditorium, and also watch out for flying trees and be aware of poor lighting. The last recommendation is not to tell anyone your real name or any aliases. Of course you may have already done that on your blog.

    I am not sure about other options. There are throughout history good kings and bad kings. A good king can have a son that shall kill the father and rule the kingdom through tyranny. Throughout history democracies have done the same. Obviously if the king was more conscious and so was the son then the outcome would be better. In the same way if a community as a whole was more conscious the outcome would be on average better. A good king (or queen) is better than a bad democracy. A good democracy is better than a bad king (or queen).

    A good king will have a happy following if the community is on average sane and civilised. If society has violence in its marrow it will not like the softness of a good king’s ways and shall overthrow him. A good king will share and grow in the harmony of an on average sane and civilised society. A bad king will seek to destroy the happiness of a civilised society. A bad king will combine with an uncivilised society to create a platform to wage war against other nations.

    The essential aim is to move individuals and groups towards creativity, harmony, and the good, and away from destruction, violence, and evil. (If you do not agree that is fine. I suggest you go to north-west Pakistan to vent your criminal mind). The trouble is how to stop an ignorant democracy poisoning a great leader or mystic: your issue. The trouble is how to stop an ignorant leader poisoning the society: my issue.

    The key to the inquiry is truth. In order for Robert Mugabe to create havoc on the nation of Zimbabwe he creates a fictitious belief system – he probably believes in it, but this is not necessary. It is difficult for media to get in and find out the truth, but enough information has come to light. Even with uprisings in recent times in Iran and Burma we have that mobile phone imagines have been the key to letting the truth come out. The international community had no idea of the first uprising in Burma and the brutal crushing of it until well after it happened. The same is with the figures for the number of people who died at Tiananmen Square or in Tibet.

    A violent ruler or rulers hide or distort the truth and create a propaganda system that looks comprehensive and pretty (but only from the outside). Go inside the prisons and the graveyards and the story is much much different. Investigate the torture, the abuse, and the killings.

    The same is of course the case with a crowd that is ignorant and kills great leaders or intellectuals or mystics. They have no idea of the truth about a person, and create a general belief or propaganda system that says for example that Socrates or Gurdjieff or Osho are evil and are corrupting the youth. The same is with so many hundreds of millions of everyday Chinese citizens that resolutely believe that the Dalai Lahma is evil. This is the myth fed to them by the politburo. If they were given a chance to read his writings, or to meet him, or to listen to his words of wisdom they may start to wonder. Of course if they have a closed mind it would be difficult, but still possible, to bring about a change in understanding that is more in tune with the truth.

    A mind that is not obsessed with entrenched and powerful thoughts and motions is available. If such a mind could be exposed to the truth then there is a chance for positive change and growth. So many people have such a closed mind with respect to Swami Rajneesh that there is no point meeting him, or reading anything he has written. This does not mean to say anything about Swami Rajneesh. It is just that critics who have a formed a strong and closed viewpoint without knowing him have no chance of investigating the truth about Swami Rajneesh for themselves. First they would need to create a quieter space inside themselves. In order to do this they will need to look at the source of their agitation. Part of this may be unconscious issues they are working on. Part of it may also be a feed from people that have an opposing point of view.

    The general sannyas community has been fed a myriad of lies that represents a beautiful but fake belief system – just go to Osho.com for the complete picture of lies. This is of course a general opinion. Whether or not it is the truth is not known.

    Here we have a clue. We have it that truth can be of much help if we are available to us, and if it is made available to us. Those that seek to cover themselves do so for what reason? Why hide a face or a personality or a thought pattern? It is only if you have something to hide that you shall seek to avoid revealing the truth. This is why brutal regimes are always inherently secretive…they have something to hide!!! This is why a society needs a FREE media, and FREEDOM OF INFORMATION about the workings of governance.

    We have in this site heard some terrible accusations against the Inner-Circle, OIF, and Pune Resort management. Some people dismiss this automatically. They have a closed (extremist) mind-set. Other people automatically believe the allegations. They too have a closed (extremist) mind-set. Somewhere in the middle is a bunch of sane Osho sannyasins and other seekers that really would like to know the truth. Their mind is available, but the truth lies hidden.

    The Inner-Circle, OIF, and Pune Resort management operate in secrecy. This is a clue. There needs to be away to investigate what has and is happening, and for this information to be seen to be credible. Only then can we move forward. If however this secrecy hides negligence and criminality, then the establishment will resist by all means efforts to investigate (as they have done). Even the pressure of a big celebration down the road near the Burning Ghats will not shift anything directly. The establishment will either need to go broke, be investigated by the relevant legal authorities, or be challenged through the courts.

    Yes Shahriar I see your criticism of the ignorant crowd. Communities and society as a whole contains all peoples of all persuasions. The path to a better individual inner world is one where the thoughts and emotions fall silent. Of course the mind and body can be used, but only as a response not a reaction. Whether meditation or therapy or life is the key to that is a mystery. With a calmer mental state an individual can be better able to process the information they already have about the world. They might then work out for themselves that they have been fed lies by someone or some society. They will also be more available to receive and analyse in a more constructive manner new information. In this way the individual and the collective will evolve so that whichever political-social structure is in place is more and more constructive.

    In the mean time Shahriar we have a practical answer. If you see the crowd poisoning Socrates than the answer is very simple. As Frank would perhaps say, get your gloves on. It is the same on a larger scale. Democracy elected Hamas in into power in the Palestinian Territories. They are in my opinion a violence extremist religious terrorist organisation, so all I have the power to do is say so. Others in the international community imposed sanctions. This pressure revealed Hamas’s true violent colors. Democracy also tried to vote out the tyrants of Iran, but failed not because of democracy, but because of corruption of the process. Hence in Iran people would have been more free (especially women) if democracy was allowed to function freely.

    If we can acknowledge our own current inner reality, and find ways to make that inner reality more and more calm and silent, then we shall more and more come to know the truth. Then, tyrants and ignorant crowds will less and less create (mass) destruction. In the mean time we have a real world that awaits: full of tyrants and good leaders and ignorant crowds and loving crowds and intelligent crowds. Gloves on!!!

    Lastly, I support the CIA’s extraordinary rendition programs and harsh interrogation techniques…just another life experience???!!!

    http://oshodemocracy.blogspot.com

  172. Shanti says:

    Now we have Abhay in methamphetamine… and calls himself harri-om… there is no ending to it

  173. Shahriar says:

    Harri Om I think my accusation of you being a CIA or Vatican agent may have been wrong and definitely insulting.

    As far as Pune is concerned, my only concern is Osho’s words and his “legacy” being preserved. I do consider Jayesh and Amrito to be somewhat criminals with their banning, ignoring the contaminated water issue, restricting the freedom of sannyasins to express themselves in different ways (whether devotion, dancing, singing etc. etc. etc.)

    My basic problem is whether or not your suggested couse of action would be in alignment with an enlightened persons vision. For instance, whether Osho would agree with your suggested proposal or not. Therefore I am simply expressing my doubt about whether or not your course of action is the right one. I do not want someone who does not understand Osho at all to become the manager of Pune and have power. I would much rather have the sannyasins whom Osho appointed manage Pune and run the day-to-day activites rather than someone foreign. Your proposal of democracy is a foreign element to Osho’s vision. An example would be if a christian made proposals to change the structure of Islam, I am sure other examples exist also. I trust the judgement of the inner-circle in mundane matters as long as they are fair-minded and are open and willing to listen to the concerns of sannyasins. I also trust their judgment when it comes to electing persons to replace deceased members. I do not trust democracy and politicians to be able to do this. I believe that politicians would be harmful to Osho’s vision and that the right way is to establish the inner-circle once more and create a mechanism whereby sannyasins can voice their concerns about mundane matters related to the functioning of the ashram/resort and the inner-circle would listen and then come to a decision. The inner circle, of course, would only be concerned with mundane matters. They would in no way restrict the freedom of sannyasins as long as they are not harming or disturbing other sannyasins. A limit would have to be placed on the inner circles ability to ban sannyasins, and they would have to provide good cause for such a course of actions. Meaning they cannot ban without reason, so that unless a person is harming or disturbing others, the inner circle could not interfere with them. The third being that the inner-circle could not ignore the concerns of sannyains about water etc. etc. etc. and a mechanism would have to be created so that if the inner-circle did such a thing, sannyasins could take action and make sure that mundane matters were taken care of. Democracy is not the right way here. It will be mixing Osho’s vision with politics, elections and voting. Pune is a buddhafield, it is not an election ground. It is sacred, and democracy, elections, voting, politics and politicians will simply degenerate and degrade the atmosphere in Pune. The purpose of Pune is to serve as a place where people can come to meditate, make a pilgrimage to Osho’s samadhi and other actions which have something to do with the sacred. Now, the managers of Pune are simply there to ensure that the ashram/resort is functioning well and nothing else. A limit must be put on what they can and cannot do. We must also make sure that there are punishments if the inner circle gets out of line and interferes with sannyains without cause and we must also make sure that sannyasins cannot interfere without cause in the actions of the inner circle. (although probably without punishment for sannyasins.)

  174. Shahriar says:

    A balance between ability to decide and act, and the concerns of sannyasins. An inner circle that is at the same time the manager of pune, but also takes into account the concerns of sannyasins. An inner circle that is responsible, and sannyasins who can ensure that the inner circle does not get out of line. A clear specification of the role of the inner circle and a limit on what they can and cannot do, so that they cannot interfere in sannyasins who may be eccentric but are not harming or disturbing others or using pune for non-spiritual purposes (such as gathering votes, elections etc.) and to ensure that the inner circle cannot ban anyone without good cause. (good cause being if someone is harming/disturbing sannyasins, or using pune for non-spiritual purposes such as advertising, elections, voting, or other activites which fall outside of the category of spiritual activities. Such activites are those activites which have something to do with the ego, such as power, position, money, fame etc. etc. Activities which can be categorized as “Zorba the Buddha” activites are prefectly acceptable as long as they do not harm or disturb.) A mechanism whereby an independent group of sannyasins can supervise the quality of management at pune and ensure that the standards are met, (this includes addressing issues such as water contamination etc. etc. etc.) and the ability to take actions should irresponsibility arise in the management.

  175. Shahriar says:

    “I do not want someone who does not understand Osho at all to become the manager of Pune and have power.”

    Although I do not consider the Pune managers to have “power”, they only have responsibility.

    “An example would be if a christian made proposals to change the structure of Islam”

    One of the problems christianity is facing today is that people do not know what exactly the response of Jesus would have been to the situation which exists in the world today. Since christian priests do not have the capacity to respond to the situation facing the world today, the only possibility is if someone if the capacity of Jesus is born and speaks the language of the 21st century. (it just so happens that that person is NOT me! lol.) The body of christianity is dying, especially in the modern world. We see for ourselves how christianity appears childish to the intellegensia of the modern world. There is no way to revive this body, so the essential message of Jesus is not going to die, it is going to change so that it is in tune with the modern world, but it is going to look so different from Christianity that will in all likelihood have no resemblence to christianity. As far as christianity is concerned, you can read Osho’s insights on it. (not on Jesus, but on Christianity.)

  176. shantam prem says:

    As far as christianity is concerned, you can read Osho’s insights on it. (not on Jesus, but on Christianity.)

    As fa as Sannyas is concerned, whose insights one needs to read.(not on jesus, but on Sannyasins)

    Shahriar,
    We all presume Harri Om and Abhay are the same entity. It is the tactics or deep pshycological problem, one does not know.
    By saying democracy and voting etc. they may not be prescribing the right remedy. Remedy has to come from within His vision, BUT they are pointing towards a sickness, Sannyas Intelligentia and elites have tried to ignore. Their diagnose is perfectly on the line.
    It is delusion of inner circle and complete control of ” Valadmir Putin” on the destiny of the Osho energy movement.

    Out of this high headedness of the high priests, anti virus, Virus like Rajneesh gets limelight. It was a natural out come that someone comes forward to create the polar opposite.

    And all this in just one life time, and that too when Master was speaking not telegraphically but quite graphically!

  177. Kranti says:

    Shanti HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD in just two posts

    ” when in reality he is just fishing in sannyas waters for his own grandeur… it is sickening really.”

    That is the reality

    Osho said a joke about a someoen training a rat to ring a bell evertime he needs food..after sometime when another rat asked how is the training going on , the first rat replied.. ” Ya It is going good..I had teething trouble now i have trained that idiot fully he brings food every time i ask by ringing the bell. ”

    Anyone suggesting things like Rajneesh is creating a great rebellion by raising sincere questions & inner circle is not responding for such and such reasons because they are afraid should understand this joke first

    It was obvious from the previous thread how much negativity Rajnessh is carrying about Osho himself forget about Inner circle..

    Either he hates Osho or He is projecting himself as great ZEN master who will tear apart Osho also or he is deluding himself that the guys posting here at sannyasnews especially who are in support of essential Osho need some shock treatment.. In all of the above he is deluding himself..

    Most of his own followers were shocked by what he said about Osho and are avoiding talking about it..

    I challenge all the Rajnessh puppies to open a new thread and discuss about what rajneesh said about Osho fron Rolls to money to lies about labour at the ranch ..

    When Inner Circle points out how successful there were in distributing / marketing oshoo books and discourses all these guys jumped up and down saying number of books sold is not the important think.. Now they are quoting how many Tears of Mystic rose ‘ have been sold.. 350000 of whatever ..this is what delusion is ..

    Atleast this mush is true.. No sane guy can refuse this

    ” But hey, the 21 are by far the sanest in the whole circus. At least no one is declaring himself enlightened…. and offering guidance to anyone. And these were the guys our beloved talked to everyday. If we talk about bending over. these people lived with their bellies touching their legs.”

  178. Kranti says:

    ” There is no way to revive this body, so the essential message of Jesus is not going to die, it is going to change so that it is in tune with the modern world, but it is going to look so different from Christianity that will in all likelihood have no resemblence to christianity ”

    It had already been happening for sometime.. Wahtever Jesus said is being interpreted with a freshness ..I see so many TV channels where priests talk about the message of Christ in such way that it resembles more of what a Buddha or Eastern mystics said..

  179. shantam prem says:

    Kranti,
    Again the roots of the problem lies in the enclosed and elitist policy of the management team.
    Once they gather the humility to see that there was no need to burn the bridges after crossing them, there was no need to cut the head of the master, these metaphors are applicable for inner world of the seekers.

    A lit bit of realisation and MAGIC can be restored in the Mecca, Kashi, Jerusalem and Amritsar of our time.
    But if the main organisation is arrogantly stubborn than small kiosks will flourish.

    Many many are fishing in the sannyas water for their own glory, because most of them are peace loving businessmen, they take no trouble with the main supplier.
    Rajneesh is at least dare to challenge the big fishes and one can see, in a short period of time, he has become the most successful meditation camp taker, for the simple reason, he has become the voice of rage, call him megalomaniac or by any other name, this man has become the Barrack Obama of sannyas movement, not because he is great but because of BUSH (J&A) administration, The bunch of stupid and low sighted people.

  180. Kranti says:

    I Understand Shantam your view from the angle of needing balanced approach..

    But most of Rajnessh reactions are one dimensional calling Inner Circle members as bafoons and all.

    And I am very eager to see what his follwors have to say about what Rajneesh said about Osho in previous thread.

    So many criticisms like …

    - i would never want to be the Bhagwan…a Rolls Royce Guru…a Rolls Royce to me is a coffin carriage

    - the greatest Master of Masters Bhagwan…
    thought this was his greatest zen stick joke…
    then get this joke….please…
    who paid for this zen stick joke huh ??

    -if he was truly their beloved Master…
    Buddha of Buddhas…
    he should have first taken care of these beautiful sannyasins…and donated all the oregon and stupid joke rolls royces to those who gave it all up for him

    - i distance myself from such Gurus…
    and question everything…
    and all the material trappings of such Gurus…

    -the old world of Gurus and Gurudom is dead…

    -the new man is a friend and fellow traveler…accountable to all…humble and sharing his vision of love

    - there has never been a sangham around bhagwan

    -just bhagwan and money trips
    and bhagwan and money trips…
    millions in donations, rolls royce, lear jets,
    diamonds, shiny robes…
    glittering like a clown in a circus

    - please stick to your Rolls Royce Guru Bhagwan…

    - I am simply rajneesh the friend

    - realize…poor Bhagwan..
    struggled for 15 years after his enlightment…
    from a small village jabalpur
    teaching to students to earn his daily bread…

    - then came the American Guru dream…
    the rolls royces…diamonds…glittering gowns…
    his show was on…
    can you see “ the poor mans “ conditioning…anyone ???

    - this has created the greed
    and the flowers we have today

    - so…beloved disciples…
    pay the price for his rolls royce culture…
    the money game

    He simply rejected Osho from above statements

    People like Abhay will jump on me and say i am quoting rajnessh out of context..to me there is nothing out of context here..It is just plain and simple

    Then he also justifies so many things by saying as does not want to loose out on the idenity of being a Osho lover

    Osho is the greatest master and He deserves 365 Rolls , one per day

    - a zen master is absurd
    and his absurdity has an inner logic
    and compassion is that inner logic

    Etc Etc…

    JUST SEE the Contradictions & Mental game that is being played..

    Just for building up a image of a great rebellion happening around Him

    So many people has fallen for the so called REBELLION

    I challenge all these Rajnessh followers to see whether they agree with Him on views about Osho

    Now what he is trying to do by fighting against Inner Circle.. If he has rejected Osho type of Guru what is His problem now?..

    Why doesnt he get on with his own stuff instead just hanging a osho photo behind him every time he speaks or preaches

    What is the point of complaining that Inner Circle is corrupting great master Osho who in his own eyes is corrupt , money hungry master

    The most disgusting remark is calling Osho a poor guy who was struggling for livelihood earlier and later made use of the money which came from west.. Disgusting..

    What all the Osho lovers are doing behind this guy?

    It is height of hypocrisy & self delusions..

  181. Harri Om says:

    Shahriar are you not aware that politics was always there: in the mix of sincerity and pure politcs. The Inner-Circle was formed out of the people that could get close to Osho and win his attention. Now with Osho gone and no clear structure those interested in power vie for the attention of the senior leadership. The trouble is that all but the current senior leadership have been forced out of the Inner-Circle. Hence the Inner-Circle functions like a dictatorship. Of course you have mentioned some practical suggestions which are in the whole sensible. Yet still these are only practical rather than core issues. The important issue is that the Inner-Circle is now run by the few remaining members of the original Inner-Circle, and in a dictatorial fashion. Other people who want to be in the Inner-Circle will be busy playing politics right now. Politics does not suddenly come into play the minute some idea of democracy gets introduced. If democracy was introduced into the mix, the people that will always be playing politics will turn their attention away from Jayesh and Amrito, and towards what the general population of Osho sannyasins are requesting and saying. Again I reinforce that those who are interested in power are always a mix of genuine intent and ability to do good, and otherwise pursue their own selfish personal interest. It is only a few whose pursuit of power is blind to begin with. It is however many whose pursuit of power becomes blind if they are allowed to maintain a position of considerable power that is far beyond their usual status. Of course this is why constitutional democracies limit presidential terms, and why nut-cases like Jayesh, Amrito, Hugo Chavez, and Manuel Zelaya try and stay in power beyond their used by date. So you say that democracy would introduce the poison of politics into the mix. I say that obviously politics is always in the mix, and perhaps especially so when the Master is in the body. Power games are a part of life, including spiritual life. The idea of a democratically elected Inner-Circle means that those who are interested in power will need to satisfy the needs of the Osho sannyas base. Now you say that this would be like one religion changing the structure of another religion. This is wrong for two reasons. Firstly there would need to be some way of ensuring a certain level of authenticity in having voting rights as an Osho sannyasin, and in being able to be elected to a particular position of responsibility. The second reason why your statement is wrong is because – as you point out – it is not about tinkering with the wiring of Osho’s vision: this cannot be done because Osho left no successor and the Inner-Circle has only a practical mandate. In other words all that can be done is to protect, preserve, and make fully available all that is Osho’s legacy. Of course like the nut-case Christian preachers that annoy the television screen on a Sunday morning, people will corrupt Osho’s message. This will happen, but it is a separate issue from the core function of protecting, preserving, and making available Osho in both purity and totality. Of course, as I previously stated, the issue of a clear framework needs to be addressed. This would include issues like roles and responsibilities, accountability and transparency, a watch-dog or ombudsman role, terms limits for various positions, and a process for changing of the guard so to speak. One suggestion for changing of the guard is a vote by Osho’s people. There are of course enumerable other suggestions. The point is that Osho left no clear framework, and the bullies have kicked everyone out and have become tyrannical. Your previous comment lacks substance. It simply says something like we should start the inner-circle anew. IT Great idea Shahriar. How about coming up with some suggestions about how to do that. You also naively assume that politics only comes into play in democratic organisations. Try and make your way into the Chinese politburo or funny enough the Osho Inner-Circle and you will find out all about politics. It is real-world stuff and the gloves are already on. A one party dictatorship will also have in-fighting. It is just that this will be hidden for the sake of appearing to be unified. Disunity brings the one party machine down and so everyone aiming for the top jobs lose out. Only of course with immense internal and external pressure do fissures develop and the machine risks blowing up. This is what is currently taking place in Iran for example – and Iran cannot be said to be a functioning democracy. My suggesting is go to the CIA, get a job, and get assigned to work your way up into the Osho Inner-Circle. Then I will ask you if you like the idea of democracy. By then you will be a just another delusional psychopath on a megalomania trip. You will say that Osho whispers in your ear and that he says to destroy his vision and harm humanity as much as possible.

  182. Kranti says:

    It is not only fishing in sannyas community..it is also fishing outside of it where so many people have similar things to say against Osho but who want a guru.

    So in short you target two types of people…

    People who are the Disgruntled sannyasins who are unhappy about current state of affairs by projecting as great devoted Osho lover and also by specifically addressing Samadhi issues as ‘ baits ‘

    Second set of people who need a guru / but who left Osho / couldnt follow Osho because they couldnt understand Osho way

    You see the great rebellion ??????????

    It is the same startegy corporates / adevertising companies use to position their product in the minds of different categories of customers ..

  183. Kranti says:

    Abhay .. Instead of keep harping on Inner Circle like a gramaphone record gone wrong , address Rajnessh issue first .. You talked about the criminality of others so much ..Please talk about the criticisms against Osho himself by Rajneesh .. If He is so mush against Osho then why is he concerned about Osho movement and His sannyasins and Osho samadhi?

  184. Kranti says:

    I adderessed the Abhay part of Harri Om because Abhay is more focused on current issues while Harri Om part of Abhay is only interetsed in creating a new wave in Democracy – Inner Circle is just an excuse ..

    That part of him must be the reincarnation of some chinese leader who failed to create democracy there..he sees / projects a mini china here and excited about a possibility of fulfilling his desires from previous life

  185. shantam prem says:

    J&A based Inner circle is one extreme of the spectrum, Rajneesh and other sannyas gurus are the second extreme, both these extremes remind me of the Indian social fabric.
    It is like-
    unfortunately Osho’s delicate vision has become like a soulful innocent girl born in the labour class family in some Indian village.
    Village land lord sons and their buddies want to deflower her, if she goes to police station to complain, police officers would like to do the same and if she runs away to Bombay to chase movie dreams, producers directors will like to taste the nectar first before the screen test.

    Only the time will tell, whether this beautiful girl will end up as a house wife or keep of some rich Shaikh, will she end up in the call girl racket or destiny will turn her into the first class actress!

    As far as My Master’s vision is concerned, my prognoses is that once J&A come down from their high pedestal attitude;
    17, koregaon park will blossem again. Only than half cooked gurus will go unemployed. Bonsai will turn into Banyan tree…
    Till than it will be like a distress sale in the store,” Buy one, get two free and steal as many as you wish.”

  186. Shanti says:

    Shantamy. You asked me about my vision, prognosis, you called it.
    I am sick of the exploiters. If i have to choose i´d rather choose the managers. Again, I am not into resorts.
    But these guys have got rid of any priesthood. Even Zareen and Shunyo who were chosen by Osho to be the sannyas givers took themselves off the picture to make a fresh space for a contemporary sannyas. You can not keep initiating disciples of a missing master. Osho can be the greatest inspiration but he is not in his body to be anyone’s master.
    I dislike the yuppie groove they give to the ashram, but I would choose it blindfolded compared with all the other wanna be gurijis profiting from Osho´s movement.
    I was talking to maneesha some time ago… THE maneesha. and she told me how she did not have a room in the ahsram anymore and if she wanted to be there without paying entrance she had to work as anyone else, and so is Anando, and Devageet. I mean theses guys inherited the kingdom and they could have placed themselves as the messengers and the Holy circle, but chose to be just what they were before. If these guys do not work or go away they get nothing Including Amrito. When he was not living in India, but in London, he lost his room and when he came back he was given a crappy room in Omar khayam, and he was there for a long time.
    I respect that.
    Now Amrito has never been a good listener, and that is his defect. he thinks he is right. He is bright intellectually and really knows how to use language. But that pisses people off and creates more enemies than harmony.
    But, again, They have not become spritual leaders. AND I respect that.
    On the other hand are all the exploiters who wish a piece of the cake for the money or the ego puffing and keep telling sannyasins that they are the real successors.

    However my idea is that as everybody is free to do whatever they want, so do it. If you like the bozzo in a red lunghi, well it is your trip… But do not try to push him down my throat, because I will vomit.
    You like Osho bhajans, and kirtan, so go to it. You want to scream and do therapy and be real, then go to the humaniversity.
    I mean I ´d rather go to the ashram in pune… its nicer and the energy is better, it is cleaner… and overall there is less bullshit.
    But the earth is big enough for every one to be in his own trip.
    Did you have a nice sleep shantamy, darling?

  187. Shanti says:

    IOne last point on the disgusting Sw. Rajneesh. why was not him so rebellious and fiery when Osho was alive and confronted him with all his criticisms? no, no Then he was a devotee shy slow-walking. It is so easy now that Osho can not defend himself. Yeas the lion´s roar of a mouse.

  188. meera says:

    why not you shanti GET LOST

    we don´t need sick creatures or kanNibals anymore in India who just wanna fuck around ..
    to pass their time..

    the world is big

  189. Shanti says:

    … and finally, I feel so ashamed to be associated with rajneesh just because I am a sannyasin… i feel really embarrassed.

  190. oshobob says:

    Yes, Shanti, you’re right. Blatant opportunism always makes one cringe.

    Heraclitus tells us now in 2009 that the master/disciple paradigm should have been ditched 2,000 years ago, but…

    in the the late 70′s he and thousands of his fellow red-clad beloveds were singing a different song — “Come, Come, Come Again”, and “Won’t You Join the Dance”, and “there’s a living master on the planet, and we are his disciples.” And 1975 was a lot later than 1 AD, if my math is right.

    Ha, ha.

    You wonder why no one listens to Osho sannyasins anymore, the centers have fizzled out, and the sannyasin obituary column is the most happening section of the news? There’s your answer, or at least part of it.

  191. Kranti says:

    Oshobob..May be that is part of Heraclitus growth.. But it is his individual opinion anyway..

    But what is happening with these opportunitic ‘ Gurus’ is realy disgusting..

    But Going by Shanti’s clarity on these issues i am alright to accept her as my master ..

  192. oshobob says:

    Well Kranti,

    If you allow Heraclitus his growth from ‘Bhagwan’s my master, I’m his disciple’ to ‘ the master/disciple game is baloney’, why don’t you cut the same slack for Swami Rajneesh, from ‘quiet slow-walking man’ to ‘volcanic vertical energy man’?

    What gives here…?

  193. Kranti says:

    Yes ..That can be a growth .. If you dont have vested interest for fishing from sannays community ( which heraclitus does not seem to have ) , If the growth is not at the cost of master himself by turning against the master.. Even thats is alright as masters are not infallible but then you want access to that master’s samadhi also , for yourself and others..contradictory things..

  194. Shanti says:

    Exploitation Of the sannyas. community. sincerely, which one of you puppies would have payed any attention to Rajneesh if he was not advertising himself as a sannyasin?
    That is exploitation. That is lime juice sold as coca- cola. So brave, that when the master was alive he just shut up and walked slowly. disgusting, sickening and a total embarrassment to the sannyas world. i would rather be associated with mickey mouse than this bozzo.
    That is why I am upset. because of the fact that i am a sannyasin I am liked to this guy.
    And then we have abhay-Harri om saying “he looks a lot like Osho”… are you kidding me?
    You only like the fact that he is against the resort. that is all.
    sickening…

  195. oshobob says:

    It doesn’t look to me that Swami Rajneesh is fishing for followers from the Osho sannyasin community. Most of the people at his groups look like Ruskies that weren’t around when Osho was in the flesh. New meat.

    And if you want access for all sannyasins to your master’s samadhi in Pune, then Sw. Rajneesh looks the guy who is fighting vocally for just that. For the banned, the burned, and the bilked. He said he is going to start legal procedings for just that right, though no one has yet to see any specifics on that intention…

  196. Shanti says:

    Oshobob. you have some intelligence. he is sending his stuff to all the list of the meditation centers from Osho.com… if that is not fishing in sannyas waters, what is it?
    The russians are all sannyasins. please!!

  197. Shanti says:

    …and also where was this freedom fighter, the defentant of the banned when Shyam Singha was banned from the ashram in 1988. By osho´s orders. When Gunakar was banned for declaring himself enlightened, by Osho´s orders; When little siddhartha was banned for samking pot? When hundreds of sannyasins where banned from the asharm and the communes…where was he? walking shyly slowly…
    How convenient. just exploitation. Now that the master is gone he is representing the banned ones… and when the master was alive? Why not then?… ah?!!
    manipulation that is all.

  198. Kranti says:

    And the kind of things that was said about Osho himself and the effort to disassociate himself from Osho at the drop of a hat , just because people said he imitates Osho..

    I am not sure whether He said the same things about Osho earlier on his own? Most probably no as it would have hurt all the sannyasins ( potential fishes )

    Now so many fishes are caught he can afford to let go a few ‘ opinions ‘ against Osho ..may be that is keeping in mind another customer segment ( Unless he did it specifically to hurt the comfort level of people at sannyasnews and he didnt actually mean it )

    And if explcitly wants to distance himself from the Rolls Riyce guru what he is going to do infront of the samadhi of that Rools Royce guru…. Then there is a Rolls parked right there before entering the samadhi just incase he forgets his ‘ Rolls Royce ‘ guru remarks and steps in there..

  199. oshobob says:

    Well Shanti, you’re right, if Raja’s sending literature to sannyasin centers to promote himself, then he probably deserves to get roughed up a bit for that faux paux (spelling?, so sorry, …every once in awhile I try to embed a foreign word in my posts to compensate for my lack of higher education….but i really don’t like the French anyway, so I don’t care if i mangle their language — By the way, does anybody like the French except the French? — doubtful. Osho called them “lousy” if my memory serves me right…

  200. Kranti says:

    ” For the banned, the burned, and the bilked ”

    thats is how you collect people , Dont you..In the whole history you gather your first group of people from the dissatisfied lot..not from the satisfied lot..

  201. Kranti says:

    And really Anthony inserted the knife at the right spot..It brought out all the stuff we saw..

  202. Kranti says:

    Oshobob..are there special category of jokes on ‘ French ‘ ?

  203. oshobob says:

    Those Ruskies are all Osho sannyasins already? I didn’t know that Shanti. Some of those girls are damn cute too, seeing the YouTube videos….

  204. Shanti says:

    French are better lovers than americans…period.
    that is why americans hate them.

  205. Kranti says:

    ” i distance myself from such Gurus…
    and question everything…
    and all the material trappings of such Gurus…

    -the old world of Gurus and Gurudom is dead…

    - there has never been a sangham around bhagwan

    -can you see “ the poor mans “ conditioning…anyone ??? – this has created the greed
    and the flowers we have today ”

    BUT , I am the chosen one by that Rolls Royce guru..

    Like Buddha’s transmission to Mahakashyap the transmission happened via what ???

  206. oshobob says:

    Better lovers? Really….?
    I’ll have to jot that bit of information down on my Palm Pilot, just so I don’t forget it…

  207. Kranti says:

    Just to move away from seriousness.. Dedicated to Oshobob and Shanti ( shantam too as this is his kind of joke )

    An American is having breakfast, in Paris, one morning (coffee, croissants, bread, butter and jam) when a Frenchman, chewing bubble-gum, sits down next to him. The American ignores the Frenchman who, nevertheless, starts a conversation.

    Frenchman: “You American folk eat the whole bread??”

    American (in a bad mood): “Of course.”

    Frenchman: (after blowing a huge bubble) “We don’t. In France, we only eat what’s inside. The crusts we collect in a container, recycle it, transform them into croissants and sell them to the states.” The Frenchman has a smirk on his face.

    The American listens in silence.

    The Frenchman persists: “Do you eat jelly with the bread??”

    American: “Of Course.”

    Frenchman: (cracking his bubble-gum between his teeth and chuckling).

    “We don’t. In France we eat fresh fruit for breakfast, then we put all the peels, seeds, and leftovers in containers, recycle them, transform them into jam, and sell the jam to the states.”

    After a moment of silence, The American then asks: “Do you have sex in France?”

    Frenchman: “Why of course we do”, he says with a big smirk.

    American: “And w hat do you do with the condoms once you’ve used them?”

    Frenchman: “We throw them away, of course.”

    American: “We don’t. In America, we put them in a container, recycle them, melt them down into bubble-gum, and sell them to France.”

  208. Swami Pavitro (Hawai) says:

    Ma Shanti , Sw Kranti,
    its not about taking sides with OIF or Sw Rajneesh , its about the bringing whatever is happening in the name of Zen , as Bhagwan was always for the whole picture and not only a part .

    Ma Meera , Sw Amitabh ,
    please donot take sides , Sw Rajneesh is capable of doing that for himself , you are being too naive .

  209. Kranti says:

    Yes Swami pavitro..somehow the dicussion got drifted towards Rajnessh only ..Especially after his attack on Osho himself which put lot of things in a different perspective.. lot of contradictory stuff..

  210. oshobob says:

    That was a funny joke Kranti, and that joke link too on the French, all from the American side too, that was just great…i told you you were maturing Mr. K., now you proved it…

  211. Shanti says:

    I was browsing through Harri Om´s blog and I found some golden nuggets.
    First he tells us all that rajneesh was a buddfha in the making, that is why he was banned. Not for fishing in sannyas centers.
    An then the masterpiece. Harri om says about Abhay (himself):
    “Perhaps Prem Abhay is a nutcase like Swami Rajneesh is not. Perhaps Prem Abhay is a great master who wants to see out his days in his last body sitting in silent communion because the crowd is too stupid. In any case, the background fits with the possibility that Prem Abhay may one day become a great Master, even one that could stand beside Osho”

    Ism´t it wonderful.. reality is more strange than fictions.
    ah, ha… this is so funny!!!

  212. Kranti says:

    Thanks for the encouragement Oshobob.. I was a bit serious with all the stuff happening around..beginning to loosen up a bit nowdays..

  213. Kranti says:

    Shanti

    Thats is nothing ..theer were even golden golden nuggets earlier .. So many posts had gone down ..i will try to pull out one from earlier threads..You will like it..

    And saying those things will make you think Harri Om is not Abhay..so it may be a strategy also to keep the identification going..

  214. Swami Dhyan Anurag says:

    Poor poor Shanti

    ” I hear one more comment on Sw. Rajneesh that is not derogatory and i tell you, I leave this forum ”

    Now Shanti begins her control tactics and threats that she will leave the forum. This is clearly emotional blackmail and she attempts to dominate others with her opinions.

    She thinks that sannyasnews forum will loose a very intelligent debator, What an Ego.So please leave and we will not even remember you
    ________________________________________

    Can you imagine RAJNEESH IN OSHO´S TIME.??
    He would have been hang from the top of the pagoda.

    Shanti You are now acting like an Egoistic Judge here

    Just for the facts baout these matters

    1. That Osho specially had it announed in the Buddha Hall on a sunday Sannyas celebration that Swami Rajneesh was the model sannyasin of the Ashram

    2. That Osho hd personally invited Swami Rajneesh
    to be the first to enter is new bedroom and Vipassana walkway inn chuang tzu which is now the Samadhi
    Swami Rajneesh refused Oshos invitation stating that he was not worthy to even breathe in that sacred room of Osho and Osho smiled at this answer

    3. That Swami Rajnish name and his immatitive actions were complained about many times to Osho and finally Osho himself changed Sw Rajnish name to Swami Rajneesh

    It seems that you a a greater Judge of Swami Rajneesh than Osho himself who loved Rajneesh
    __________________________________________

    again Poor Shanti

    One last point on the disgusting Sw. Rajneesh. why was not him so rebellious and fiery when Osho was alive and confronted him with all his criticisms? no, no Then he was a devotee shy slow-walking. It is so easy now that Osho can not defend himself. Yeas the lion´s roar of a mouse.

    What a surprising coincidence again
    as Swami Rajneesh was recorded to have shouted at Osho for over 5 minutes when he came for the very first opening of the Buddha Hall groove Poona 2
    Swami Rajneesh lambasted all the front row people in power in front of Osho
    in the security meeting after the discoure Osho said that Rajneesh cannot be banned in the Ashram and was welcome anytime and said about Rajneesh that
    This was the Lion’s Roar
    The very next book titke was The Lions’s Roar

    So it is clear that Swami Rajneesh is the Lion
    and it looks like Shanti is the real mouse here

    Swami Dhyan Anurag

  215. Shanti says:

    where on earth did you get these stories? did rajneesh tell you that?
    ha, ha.. I heard he slapped osho three times for having rolls royces and Osho asked his forgiveness.. and then said he could never be banned… ever, because he was great and wise… and a lions roar…
    This is getting even stranger

  216. Shahriar says:

    “The idea of a democratically elected Inner-Circle means that those who are interested in power will need to satisfy the needs of the Osho sannyas base.”

    The problem I have is that this can be done without a revolution. You see the problem clearly, but your suggestion to create democracy is uneccesary. (spelling?lol) The problem of the inner cirlce is that Jayesh and Amrito have “power” not responsibility. There is a clear difference, and there will be a clear difference in attitude when someone has power and responsibility. Once the responsibilities of the inner circle are clearly specified, we can create a mechanism whereby the inner circle has no power, but has responsibility. Functional management. I understand the corruption which exists in all power structures. What is needed is something to prevent this corruption from inflicting harm. Your suggestion does have one drawback, politicians are free from oversight for the length of their term. And I do not think that someone who is doing a good job should be removed at the end of the term, nor someone who is causing harm to stay in their post for the full term. Another thing is that we must clearly define how much power the inner circle has, and how much power sannyasins have. What I mean is that whenever a decision is made, there will be people who oppose it. As far as spiritual matters are concerned, the I.C. is not going to make such decisions, and as far as mundane matters are concerned they should be allowed within limits to make decisions as they see fit. (the only problems being that they cannot ban without good cause, they must address issues, problems, and they cannot restrict people’s right to worship etc, and perhaps bring the prices down! lol.) And now I have lost interest in typing…when enlightenment happens I will personally ask Osho what should be done Harri Om…until then.

    “It had already been happening for sometime.. Wahtever Jesus said is being interpreted with a freshness ..I see so many TV channels where priests talk about the message of Christ in such way that it resembles more of what a Buddha or Eastern mystics said..”

    I don’t like christian priests. I think it is ugly how they want to increate their numbers, serve people just to convert them. Enough said.

  217. Swami Dhyan Anurag says:

    Shanti is deluded and cannot even read clearly or has been planted by the Inner Circle Baboons to do their dirty work in exchange for personal favours when she visits her Baboon Lords in Poona

    and Shanti is very jealous of Rajneesh

    Anurag

  218. shantam prem says:

    Those who get high after reading motivational stories of some zen or Sufi master born centuries ago as few people get kick while watching the pornographic literature published 1959 somewhere in Denmark, save your children with the vaccinations of doubt and skepticism as every new guru will bring forward His inspirational stories with Osho. What a trap it will be for vulnerable and gullible.

    Osho invited rajneesh here and there, Swami Dhyan Anurag don’t forget that there must be still hundreds of people alive who have shared the same bathroom and toilet with OSho when His enlightenment was fresh with vigour and strength.
    Some body has become high priest because he was the doctor of Him, someone has become the pope by being the financer of Osho, someone has become enlightened by being this and that…….
    It seems normal sannyasin, the ordinary seekers ..they were just the foot soldiers….

    And i tell you…Even if someone would have given blow jobs to Osho, still Osho would not have transmitted a bit of His enlightenment to that person.
    By thinking Osho was partial with few,, is a worst way to demean Him.

  219. shantam prem says:

    Once the responsibilities of the inner circle are clearly specified, we can create a mechanism whereby the inner circle has no power, but has responsibility.

    This is the core point, Shahriar.
    And it is a pity that members of the first inner circle run away or booted out by few for chalking out the path for specified responsibilites.

    And the second disaster will be when the remaining few left on the helm of affairs will choose their own buddies and will trained them in their doctrine.

  220. Shanti says:

    Shantamy.i answered your question earlier to day… di you read what i said… i said it for you…

  221. Dear Shantam

    I am sure that Harri Om and Prem Abhay will be interested in this new insight of mine about Swami Rajneesh and Why I call him the ‘One Man Army’.

    The fact is that all the well known sannyasins we talk about or mention their names have all become known due to some position of power in Osho ashram in the past. Like Neelam, Tathagat, Keerti, Narendra, Arun, Jayesh, Amrito. Maneesha, Anando, Devageet, Shunyo, Veeresh etc etc

    Here I would like to point out that Swami Rajneesh has always been silent and mysterious disciple of Osho throughout his years in poona and He was never part of any position or organisation ever and was always a lone ranger and alone.

    After Osho left the body He has remained silent and anonmyous for 16 years mostly alone in the himalayas meditating and never talked, spoke to any sannyasins or opened any Osho center.

    Even today he is totally independent with no real structure or organisation and moves about openly speaking freely. His main message is to read and understand the basic message of Osho and emphasizes that one does not need any therapy or therapist to connect them to their inner being.

    Rajneesh does not charge any money for his meditation camps which are offering only core Osho meditations. He is completely against therapists who are only teaching to make money
    and Osho always says that
    therapist should not make therapy a profession, which makes it their vested interest and creates exploitation for money and domination over others

    Here is a strange fact that
    all the people in power today like Osho Resort pune and the ex powerful indian group now known as OshoWorld, OshoDham Delhi and Nisarga of Neelam, OshoDhara etc
    all are united against Swami Rajneesh.

    This makes it clear that the vested interest now is money, power and domination of the Sannyas world.

    Also, all recognized official Osho centers and main therapy centers like OshoMiasto, OshoRisk, Humaniversity are against Rajneesh.
    Again due to clear vested interest in selling therapies.

    Those Osho centers that do invite Rajneesh are warned against him with direct threats.
    ( as we all know in previous articles )
    If they do not fall in line with Poona orders their center is banned and removed from Poona list

    Also, there is huge negative propaganda machinery campaign actively directed by Amrito and others with vested interest to destroy Rajneesh’s image.

    It reminds me of exact same situation that Osho faced for 10 years from organized religions and people in power against one single individual.

    So here i stand with him
    and call him the One Man Army
    and i am sure that soon the intelligent sannyasins will see through this obvious deception that is being created and placed before us sannyasins

    All those who have actually me Rajneesh
    are in tears and love him for his simplicity and honesty

    Just see the images on his website of the meditation camps and these pictures speak louder than words

    Swami Amitabh

  222. Shanti says:

    ” one man army”…. ha, ha.
    amitabh, anurag, the same person

    abhay- harri om the same…

    this is getting tying.
    If you like the bozzo it is ok.- but leave us alone. go to kiss his feet… If he is a man of truth, no need to defend him, we are wrong … that is all.
    Now get lost.

  223. Shanti do you think that you own sannyasnews ?

    actually Shanti you get lost
    or leave as you have threatened us all
    and i am being very polite in my words to you

    you are behaving like a dictactor here

    Amitabh

  224. Shanti says:

    Man… i am tired of listening about this Rajneesh guy…
    please… ok. it is not fun anymore.
    really go kiss his feet.
    In the ashram they do not fear him. they have the frying pan by the handle. They do not like that that he uses their data base to sell his ego trip and cheat sannyasins in osho´s name. that is all.
    You love him, go be with him,. what the hell are you doing wasting your time trying to convert us…?!
    You never saw osho anyway, so you have no idea about what an enlightened master looks like.
    get lost…

  225. shantam prem says:

    Shanti,
    I am cooking my rice and dal and also digesting your posts of yesterday evening and today.
    and yes there are few points, which are not easy for my system to digest, looks like stones mixed from whole sale Grane market Poona.

    in between, can your friends and foes connect with you via facebook?

    Meera Buddha is also there!

    I am sure, we have walked on the same ashram roads many times, may be few times our Chappels were lying close to each other during the Osho white robe brotherhood(Evening meeting for resort people) or who knows once you were nudging me as my neighbour as the back bencher during the snoaring sleep when the rain drops were creating back ground music on the plastic sheet of Buddha Hall?

  226. shantam prem says:

    I think Amitabh and me were working in the same shift of Mariam during 1988-89.
    Rajneesh was one of thousands though slow walker but curious with eyes for the braless Ma’s( those were the golden days. And now Indian girls of Poona one can see in mini mini skirts-buying condoms and Marlboro from the local shops and resort people want His woman to dress properly, what a degradation!)

    in this sense we are the class fellows of rajneesh and if Amitabh wants to sit in his class as a student, good for him!

    i know many old Poona sannyasins who are guru junkies.
    One of my ex buddy has kissed the feet of almost all the famous gurus, from Lucknow (India) to Edmenton (canada) to Holland and than Osho Shailandra and Osho rajneesh!

    But in my attitude, those who never sat under his lotus feet, must have the urge to feel the Masters of their time, it is understandable but when a vetern sannyasin goes ga ga over rajneesh….?
    But yes..we all have our own style and rhythem. why to spoil the party !

  227. Shanti the Boring Booboos

    I hereby cancel my tea date with you as you seems to be a old and lonely sour frustated and bitter woman searching some action

    the only word you know seems to be
    get lost
    so i learn your wisdom and say to you
    get lost

    and it is now clear that you are from the Resort Baboon managment as you seem to know that Rajneesh took email address from Osho data base?

    Infact Inner Circle Vatayana misused the Osho email database sending mass propoganda against Swami Rajneesh

    Amitabh

  228. Shanti says:

    Shantam I make mine the poem from Frank:

    “i leave you my dream of chopping people`s dicks off”

    by:

    brian rajneesh
    deluded doppelganger
    fabled baboon hunter of india
    dick chopping fantasist
    author of `tears of anger from a misfit bozo`

    never born
    never grew up

    only visited this website”

    No seasoned sannyasin will ever be impressed by a copy if you saw the real. period.

    Now shantamy back to more interesting topics.
    I do not have fecebook dear. I had something called highfive… and it was a disaster I was getting span mail all the time. But I can send you a picture and my mail if you give me yours.

  229. Shanti says:

    Amitabhy. dear.
    It is common knowledge that Your rajneesh send his stuff to centers. ask any center leader, and they´ll tell you. I did not know it was ” a secret”.
    vatayana came to know because center leaders complained about who was that fake-copy-cat. several of them have been my friends for years.
    I do not work for the resort. i go there as many people do. I like the place, nice energy, clean, meditation and they do not let people like rajneesh inside… great place, I love it.

  230. Kranti says:

    Swami Amitabh…Accepting your points about Rajnessh please enlightenm me about all the remarks he has made against Osho

    he has clearly stated he wants to disconnect himself with that ” money hungry Rolls Royce guru ”

    Do you mean to say Osho went on forgiving him , accepting him , honouring him and now he has turned against Osho?

    What is the reason behind Rajnessh’s attacks on Osho.. Hope you will answer this doubt of mine sincerely..

  231. Prem Abhay says:

    Kranti I have not responded to the above posts because there is as yet not content to respond to.

    Swami Amitabh, people who are interested in power will always be having their eye out for competitors. They will see who is in their way, who is beside them, who is on top, and who might come in from far left of centre and spoil the whole show. This is why Swami Rajneesh was targeted by management from the beginning. Even though his sole attention was inward he was still who he was. Most people ridiculed him and thought he was just a fool, and of course that he would always be that way. Others who were interested in politics new better. Swami Rajneesh was in silence and walked slowly by his own choice. This meant that at any point he could change direction. If he did so he would become a serious threat. Of course it turns out that he slowly and silently walked away. Now he has come back with a lion’s roar, and the management was right all along. Trouble is it looks like he may well be enlightened. If so, this means that he has a new depth of presence and love, and a laser like mind full of insight that is even more dangerous.

    Now Harri Om likes to have it that I am along similar lines a threat. I am not a threat. The truth is the threat. The lies that the powers that be hide behind are the threat. You see here we are debating this and that while some people know the truth of certain things. I know that the establishment is hiding behind a painted wall of horrible lies. They also know this. They know that these lies cannot stand the pressure of the truth. This is their fundamental fear. Swami Rajneesh speaks the truth and they know it.

    Swami Amitabh you wonder about the popularity and similarly the immense reaction and distaste towards Swami Rajneesh. It is because they sense that he has something. They do not know for sure what it is, but they just sense something about him….his presence, his grace, his silence, and his power. The people like Shanti and Anthony who outright condemn Swami Rajneesh do so because he is potentially going to show them what is inside them that they are hiding from. Deep down they have certain beliefs and collected with this certain unpleasant emotions and experiences. This is how the mind puts a lid on what it does not want to see. Swami Rajneesh is opening that lead. They know that he speaks the truth. Yet if this is the case it means also that what they hold to be true and dear to them is in fact a lie. This lie is the life they have come to know, and is as far as they know who they are: the ego and its fictions. It is false, they know it, and they know Swami Rajneesh also knows it.

    Yahoo
    Abhay

  232. Kranti says:

    Swami Amitabh ..Also tell me how someone is going to value Osho samadhi when he thinks Osho was a money hungry rolls royce guru? Does it mean all the talk of Samadhi & rebellion is created just to get attention? Please answer my doubts?

  233. aha Shanti

    Just so you know that it is very easy to buy the whole email database of Poona Resort from inside sources.

    and all Osho Centers email addresses are available openly in Poona next to German Bakery

    Tears of the Mystic Rose is an Osho sannyasin book as any other sannyasin book is an Osho book
    so it is obvious that the introduction of this book will become available for all Osho lovers and centers worldwide !!

    Rajneesh receives thousands of email from all Osho centers and over 80 % Osho centers are banned and not officially acknowledged by the Poona Resort,so what is the point you are making here ?

    Amitabh

  234. Kranti says:

    ” Kranti I have not responded to the above posts because there is as yet not content to respond to.”

    AH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    What a easy way to avoid all the questions posed just hoping that people will forget after sometime…

    Abhay ..First take up my questions i posted about Sw Rajnessh ..then we will get back to the routine of water contamination

    Now Osho himself is getting contaminated by swami Rajneesh

    Just because we say one word you described me and Shanthi as using gutter language ..

    Now let me know whether the remarks made by Rajnessh on Osho is DIVINE language

    “Swami Rajneesh speaks the truth and they know it.”

    What truth Swami Rajnessh sppke Abhay? That Osho is money hungry , corrupt Rolls royce guru who didnt care a damn about His sannyasins?

    Please respond to those points raised by your friend cum Osho successor cum lion cum rebel cum what not…

  235. shantam prem says:

    So shanti, my e mail address is
    shantamprem@web.de
    looking forward to see your photo. It is not for flirtation.

    I love His people
    Sangham Sharnam Gacchhami!

    And Amitabh, you have written some where, you were banned 3 years ago. What was your story?

    You have a good flair in the language. If you feel resort stinks, than write with your own experience as a sannyasin, we are all part of the same dream.

    But if you feel resort stinks after listening Rajneesh, than it is not intelligent discussion.
    therefore i have written some where, let some one creates, www. rajneeshnews.com
    there people can praise one man army.

  236. Kranti says:

    It is 2 pm in India and let me wind up now…

    Let me see which of the Rajnessh supporters have the backbone to address each criticism Rajnessh has made against Osho himself….

  237. Kranti says:

    ” Swami Amitabh you wonder about the popularity and similarly the immense reaction and distaste towards Swami Rajneesh. It is because they sense that he has something ”

    Just read the RAT joke again..

  238. meera says:

    rajneesh is talking about theses rollsroyces
    because you people bought them
    and you had no idea what you were doing
    you don´t take the responsibility for this foolish act..

    you made yourself ridiculous
    by throwing all this money on osho…

    you don´t know what you are doing..
    most people have no idea what they are doing
    why they go to the resort..
    this place is no more a mystery school ..

    all mystery has gone

    its a commercial place

    a hotel and disco

    a party place ..

    full of idiotic therapies
    which lead to no-where

    and people like shantis
    trying to boss others around

  239. shantam prem says:

    Meera,
    I think it is going too far.
    If you trust your inner wisdom and heart,
    try to write few loving words for Shanti,
    it won’t turn you both into lesbians.
    and if so, it is good too.

  240. Swami Dhyan Anurag says:

    Rajneesh has always been outspoken.
    He spoke out against Osho Rollys Royce theory
    in front of 12 reporters in Jabalpur and it was reported in all newspapers in Jabalpur

    Rajneesh is not afraid to speak and it seems that sannyasins are cowards and slaves when it comes to critisism of their own Masters follies

    Rajneesh is simply stating that he is for Sannyasins

    Freedom and Transparancy and Accountability
    and if you read the thread without taking out of context what he is stating you will praise him for his direct and honest courage and plain guts.

    He spoke recently in Ahmedhabad to many well known senior old sannyasins and 200 people were clapping and agreed with him. They were stunned by his fierce logic and argument in favour of the dignity of sannyasins in the process of creating communes.

    Transparency Accountability and Individual Freedom
    is his mantra and he is open himself to all those who meet him at his camps.

    I have seen many critise him in his camps and he answers openly and always loves to meet these people who have the fire and can test him in public.

    You should see how these people change and come closer to him after he answers their open critisism.
    He laughs and always wants such people who can dare and i see him incourage rebelious people
    even if they are against him to be open and fearless

    Sometimes you say he is an indian devotional type kissing green marble and when he proves he is independant and freely speaking without fear
    you criticise him for freedom to speak

    Swami Dyan Anurag

  241. Shanti says:

    no, he is an indian- marble kisser when he needs to fish sannyasins, but when he is criticized for imitator… he is a rebellious individual. It all depends on the situation… and the crowd.

  242. Swami Dhyan Anurag says:

    Rajneesh speaks of Osho
    as the greatest Master of Masters

    even Osho says that he is not an Infallable Pope
    and so says Rajneesh that Ohos was not Infallable

    It seems that Rajneesh is now looking at the sannyasins situation today
    and the inner circle situation and can see that the inner circle money and power trips stem from mistakes Bhagwan made himself

    I have heard him say that Osho’s inner wisdom is unsurpassed and the only future for humanity
    but also that some of Osho’s outer actions and games have resulted in misappropriations in sannyasins and have left behind this total confusion and power trips of the Resort managment people

    Rajneesh is clear as he also examines MeherBaba Krishnamurti Sirdibaba RamanaShri and understands that each Mystic and Master have their own devices for their disciples and some work and some fail.

    Remember we have all failed and that means the device was incorrect and useless and we do not have any enlightened disciples to show that Osho was a true Master for disciples

    Rajneesh says Osho was a Master for Masters
    and not really a Master for sleeping disciples.

    Swami Dhyan Anurag

  243. Shanti says:

    Anurag. thanks that is exactly what I meant. It all depends on the crowd.
    If you are going to go fish for sannyasins you need to tell them you are on their side… “even osho did not treat you well my friends. but i will. I got enough money designing for swiss watch companies and my own family… no problem. I´ll charge you nothing, but just listen to the roar of this lion”

    I am not a stupid Girl. I am educated, well traveled, and sannyasin for 25 years. I am not biting that line… sorry.

    Shantam I wrote to you.

  244. amrito says:

    what the hell does Rajneesh mean in saying he is “for sannyasins”, its as if a politician is saying “I am for my consitituents!”.

    he said this during an interview on youtube that he is for the “sangha” and doesn’t worry much about buddham and dhamma—> its idiotic.

    You can’t split the buddham, sangham, dhamam and choose one–> you destroy the entire juice of it. Its like I decide that the rose petals is my focus, so i’ll ignore the stem and the roots. The entire flower will die.

    Rajneesh is moreso political. He is a politician.

    Osho must’ve seen the idiotic mind of rajneesh and had some compassion for the sick fellow.

    All those years in the himalayas has completely ruined the himalayas.

    -Amrito

  245. Shanti says:

    I still remember Sheela calling us ” my children”. It is the same kind of patronizing attitude of a manipulative sick person. Who asked this bozzo to represent us?
    I did n´t .

  246. shantam prem says:

    SHanti, Amrito and others

    One can write thousands and one reasons to discard Rajneesh, what so ever may be the psycho analysis, Rajneesh has arisen from the hopelessness situation around Sannyas energy, the way Obama came in the picture because of Bush.
    Can you imagine without a utterly mediocre white president, A black would have arisen so high.

    When the husband cannot fuck, driver will do. So simple is this. Punkt
    The elitist Administration of J& A is to blame too, when rajneesh calls them 21 balloons or baboons.
    When people behave smarter than human psychology and better than laws of nature, than they wonder, sooner or later, why their ego pyramids are falling like card board houses.

    The present day resort does not echo the message hidden in Osho’s words.
    It is clean, it is green, It is clean, it is green
    My God this ashram was always, even when it was just in 6 acres. And the Allies of Banyan trees around the ashram were planted more than 150 years ago, and thanks God, they still exist because the few lines have still the large banglows and blocks of buildings are not allowed in few lucky lines of Koregaon Park.
    As Dalai Lama said once something like, ” Our houses have become bigger in the proportion we have become smaller”.

  247. Kranti says:

    Heraclitus , Anthony , Oshobob

    I came across this thread where Osho talks about how he had trouble sleeping and what is the reason etc.. The paragraph just below the photo …

    Seems Anthony is right in interpreting that aspect

  248. meera says:

    shantam

    I know you are in love with that `educated ´woman
    how she always praises herself HAHAHAHAHAA

    that doesn´t mean I have to have any affection for her…

    I hate her as much as she hates my friend rajneesh

    WHATEVER SHE IS GIVING OUT
    SHE GETS IT BACK:::

    THIS IS KARMA

    in my eyes she is a silly old goose
    trying to impress desperate men..HAHAHAHAHAHA

  249. Shahriar says:

    Meera, my observation is that your words are full of hate. I was about to tell you to shut the fuck up, but then I remembered the advice Gurdjieff’s father gave him about waiting for twenty four hours before replying whenever you are angry.

  250. Prem Abhay says:

    Kranti it is not backbone that is required to respond. The reason is because there really is nothing to say. You have provided information about what Swami Rajneesh said, and I see no problem at all. I find it hilarious how you think you have found out such an irreconcilable contradiction.

    Osho was always like this also: giving support to someone or something, and then turning around and slamming the person or subject. If Swami Rajneesh is like Osho he is condemned. If he says he is not like Osho in certain ways he is condemned. If he says he loves Osho he is condemned. If he says he hates Osho he is condemned. If he says he loves and hates different aspects of Osho he is condemned. You seem to think that any Osho related person will automatically accept and adopt all aspects of Osho. I would say that it is entirely reasonable that an Osho disciple that claims to be enlightened will have little in common with Osho. In deed many such people say little of their connection to Osho, likely in large part due to this.

    As far as your Samadhi drama goes I suppose that Swami Rajneesh will not spend much time walking past the Rolls Royce on his way to his Masters Samadhi.

    Kranti you anyhow negate your own arguments before you even get started simply by stating Swami Rajneesh’s position. That is why I have not answered. The answers are there and you make yourself more out of touch by demanding an explanation. It is so funny that you are so sure you have finally found Swami Rajneesh out. Of course there will be no reasonable reply to your great insight. You even think you have found me out and that I am avoiding the painful truth by saying that you have nothing worthy of commenting on.

    I admit I have commented. I suppose I am either bored or tired of listening to you repeat your empty demands.’

    I am here not intending to provide support to Swami Rajneesh. It is just that even stupid lies can gather some conviction if repeated enough times without reply.

    Yahoo
    Abhay

  251. meera says:

    Shariar

    yes you are full of hate.. true..

    good that you wait for 24 hours…

    you cannot remain angry foever…

    do some dynamic meditation for a change
    to get the shits out of you..

  252. Shahriar says:

    “Osho was always like this also: giving support to someone or something, and then turning around and slamming the person or subject. If Swami Rajneesh is like Osho he is condemned. If he says he is not like Osho in certain ways he is condemned. If he says he loves Osho he is condemned. If he says he hates Osho he is condemned. If he says he loves and hates different aspects of Osho he is condemned. You seem to think that any Osho related person will automatically accept and adopt all aspects of Osho. I would say that it is entirely reasonable that an Osho disciple that claims to be enlightened will have little in common with Osho. In deed many such people say little of their connection to Osho, likely in large part due to this.”

    VERY IMPORTANT, PLEASE PAY ATTENTION:

    Rajneesh has the freedom to be himself and express himself as he likes as long as he is not harming anyone or disturbing anyone. BUT, if Rajneesh starts saying that he understands Osho, then there is a problem. There is nothing wrong with Rajneesh being himself and acting howsoever he would like to act, but on no account should he say that he understands Osho. All that he can or anyone else is allowed to say (so that they are not being arrogant) is that this is their understanding of Osho. That is all. Not that Osho said this, but that my understanding of Osho is that etc. etc. etc. The reason for this is that we cannot say what Osho would have said, unless we ourselves are enlightened, but then we would not need anyone’s authority would we? So Rajneesh can be himself and he can express himself as long as he does not harm or disturb anyone and as long he does not claim that he represents Osho’s understanding. All that he can claim is that he represents his understanding of Osho. (which may be wrong) So if Rajneesh starts to claim that his understanding is right, then we have a problem. Otherwise, there is nothing wrong with Rajneesh being himself and expressing himself as long as he is not harming anyone or disturbing anyone.

  253. meera says:

    Life is a pilgrimage, and unless love is attained, it remains a pilgrimage,never
    reaching anywhere. It goes on moving in circles, and the moment of fulfillment
    never comes when one can say, “I have arrived. I have become that for which
    I had come. The seed is fulfilled in the flowers.” Love is the goal, life is the
    journey. And a journey without a goal is bound to be neurotic, haphazard;
    it will not have any direction. One day you are going north, and another day
    you are going south; it will remain accidental, anything can lead you anywhere.
    You will remain driftwood unless the goal is clear. It may be a very distant star
    —that doesn’t make any difference—but it should be clear. If it is distant,
    it is okay, but it should be there.

    OSHO

  254. shantam prem says:

    Meera-
    “I know you are in love with that `educated ´woman”

    I hate her as much as she hates my friend rajneesh

    Shantam is always in love with women who are Osho’s dsiciples and nobody’s else.

    20 years ago i was deeply in love with a woman i met in Poona. With her i came to Germany first time. She found another sannyasin(the branch of the tree) as her master/saviour/friend/guide and i told her,” Listen sweety, to kiss you i can even go to hell but to see you sitting under some else’s feet but osho……i go back to Poona.”

    Still it is the same.

    Woman with no guru are sexy, who go to church or temples are also alluring but those who find their souls saved by some therapy, some group leader, some medtation camp taker, for me it is a turn off!

  255. Kranti says:

    Shariar has got goo dpoints there Abhay

    You say ” You seem to think that any Osho related person will automatically accept and adopt all aspects of Osho ‘

    No .. It is not a question of accepting..It is a question of understanding.. And we never can understand anyone fully and that too somone like Osho

    What Rajnessh does is rejecting what Osho did as wrong doings .. He also said Osho was money hungry and he used sannyaisns labour..

    This JUDGING Osho extremely .. How he can judge Osho actions so surely .

    he also said ‘ he wants to distnace himself from Osho’

    If that is the case why samadhi alone is required? So he does not need Osho or his smadhi but he is fighting because others want it ?

    This is wher i sense a hypocricy

    You say : In deed many such people say little of their connection to Osho, likely in large part due to this.”

    Thats how it should be..they are honest.. they dont say one thing about osho and use Osho name for something else.

    But what is happening in rajnessh case is different ( gain unless if he saod that onlt to attach sannyasnews participants to teach them a ZEN lesson )

    I didnt negate anything on my own..

    All the guys who support Rajnessh points on Osho can not accept Amroto / Jayesh points on osho . Why ?

    Because Rajnessh is required to keep the attack going..

    It is really trange that the people who cant even stand one reply from amrito on what osho meant by certain point is ready to justify whatever Rajneesh says about osho without any hesitation.. Does it because it suits vested interest?

  256. meera says:

    Kranti

    ´if you meet Buddha in the way..

    KILL HIM `!!!!!!!!!!!

    Buddhas whole effort is
    that you walk your own way..

    shantam

    you love womendisciples of Osho…

    can´t you seeeee
    that shanti is not a sannyasin of Osho?!

    shanti can do as much therapie as she wants
    jumping up and down ..
    that doesn´t make her a meditator…
    SHE IS just a white sheep
    following the orders of officials

    you like women which is perfectly ok…
    but
    if you have no love for your fellowsannyasins
    like rajneesh is..
    then what else is your love?
    nothing but lust…!

  257. Kranti says:

    Meera

    ” Kranti

    ´if you meet Buddha in the way..

    KILL HIM `!!!!!!!!!!!

    Buddhas whole effort is
    that you walk your own way..

    So are you saying Rajnessh is killing Buddha ( Osho ) and walking his path alone?

    Buddha said those words to indicate that the final attachment towards the master should also go.. But i dont think he said blame the master for everything and ged rid of him..

  258. Shanti says:

    My god. Meera what brought you back here.?
    I do not accept anyone telling me how to be a sannyasin. neither people in the ashram or someone like you.

    why don´t you just kill your buddha and leave us alone?
    I have heard about side effects of gonorrhea , but this is too much.
    I do not hate you or rajneesh. I am revolted by cheats and people who use MY master to their own glorification. I do not have any problem with the man if goes to get followers anywhere else. But to begin his advertising with “OshoRajneesh”… please!
    Make your own shop… that is all. I do not need anyone to interpret Osho´s words for me. I do not need any intermediary. If anyone is selling himself as that, I would immediately reject that person.
    I stand on my own feet. My experiences are my base. If someone comes and tell me ” buy this one. It is like the other one, but more concerned about you and also for free” I would say NO.
    That is all. If you do not like it Meera… go try convert someone else

    Sharamy did you get my mail?

  259. meera says:

    I´m not your god shanti

    neither is Osho

    nor does he want to be a god of idle worshipers..

    this space here is not your private property

    nor can you tell anyone what to say or think

    this is all YOUR POWERGAME

    I don´t know which nationality you are
    but you sound like a german..

    read the book.´ Bhagwan Che und Ich´

    then you will come to know
    what type of ´sannyasin ´you are

    you have this silly Sheela
    imitator dictator discriminating attitude

    Osho always talked about thirdrate politicians
    who wanna dominate others
    and who are sexuall perverts

    he knows that these people were in
    ´powerpostions´in his ashram
    because they have
    LUST FOR POWER

    but for the sake of the
    ´CHOSEN FEW´
    he tolerated all this shit going on

    so that the worldwide
    INTELLIGENZIA
    might find its way

    and this world can be changed into a

    ´PARADIES´

    instead of being destroyed by the hands of
    cruel
    stupid
    politicians….

    they type you are representing here

    now we are too many –

    jealous people like you
    cannot kill us anymore

    on the contrary ..

    we will
    chase you
    moneychangers
    out of the temple…

    just watch the game……….

  260. meera says:

    KRANTI

    GET RID OF ALL THIS STUPID ATTACHMENT:::

    that is exactly what Buddha is saying….

    ´BECOME
    A LIGHT
    UNTO
    YOURSELF´

    samasati

    ´remember :::::::::::::::::::

    WHO

    YOU

    ARE´

  261. Kranti says:

    OK meera..one request.. Why do post everything in BIG capital letters..It is difficult to read .. Please do post in normal font.. Thanks

  262. frank says:

    no-holds-barred religious catfighting?
    wow,that`s something.
    i can hear the screetching and caterwauling from here.

    even rougher than cage-fighting

    even better than:

    the good ol` boy bombay baboons
    versus
    the maharastra marble-kissers

    the delhi devotionals-for-diwali
    and
    the church ot the latter-day lunghi lovers

    are in there somewhere,too.

    i`ve goy my season ticket.

    enlightentertainment all way.

    come on you reds!

  263. meera says:

    KRANTI

    if I have to emphazise a point

    I WILL USE CAPITAL LETTERS!!!!!!!!

  264. Kranti says:

    That I understand Meera.. even I used to do that sometimes.

    But major part of your posts come in capital letters and also some part of Osho quotes also.

    I can see you the way emphasize ” I WILL USE CAPITAL LETTERS!!!!!!!!

    Trsut you will not post something like

    ” I WILL STAB YOU ALL ”

    Anyway

    WE ARE POOR SANNYASINS STRUGGLING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS HAPPENING AROUND US

  265. shantam prem says:

    Meera-
    you have addressed me one of your post

    shantam

    you love womendisciples of Osho…

    can´t you seeeee
    that shanti is not a sannyasin of Osho?!

    you like women which is perfectly ok…
    but
    if you have no love for your fellowsannyasins
    like rajneesh is..
    then what else is your love?
    nothing but lust…!

    Answer–

    Meera, please get a privare session with Rajneesh, your friend. Show him your mails and see what he says about you.

    Secondly… i may be in love with Shanti or not, I may even give J&A &R few nice four letter words, still i will not go this much down to tell them ,
    “you are not sannyasins of Osho.”

    How dare you can spit such venom?
    Are you in the right senses?

    Just before your post, i have compared your friend’s rise to Obama’s…But with your hate, you are bringing him to the level of Osama..

    and who has told you that only Rajneesh has love for the fellow sannyasins… Many people, many many people have this love.

    I just don’t love fellow sannyasins but adore them.

    And if with the grace of existance, i rise on the public platform, be sure, not a single sannyasin will be in my gathering, because i trust totally those who know Osho don’t need any private tutor and also as a sannyasin to treat another sannyasin as a big or little guru,,for me it is like incest !

    convey my loving regards to Rajneesh and telll him one of his brother has compared him with Obama!

    shantam

  266. meera says:

    Kranti

    KALI DURGA NAMO NAMAH

  267. sam.ba. says:

    OIF = NWO

    Black Pyramids

    AMRITO = the real KILLER of OSHO

  268. meera says:

    yes obama

    your friend shanti used to condemn rajneesh ranting about him NON STOP

    what do you mean to tell me I cannot decide WHO is sannyasin and WHO are the GANGS?!

    when OSHO came back from America
    he told us in detail
    WHO are GANGSMEMBERS

    the cunning priesthood (therapists) and
    greedy politicians man-agement

    and he told us when asked where
    HE wil go
    when he leaves his body:

    he said:

    `where can i go..

    I will dissolve into MY people´!!!!!

    MY PEOPLE

    are the

    CHOSEN FEW

    THE SALT OF THIS EARTH
    `

  269. shantam prem says:

    He said:

    `where can i go..

    I will dissolve into MY people´!!!!!

    MY PEOPLE

    are the

    CHOSEN FEW

    THE SALT OF THIS EARTH

    When you will add rajneesh and you and may be me too in this list of My people. Won’t you be kind enough to add Shanti and Shahriar, also Jayesh and Amrito too?

    Let me wait till morning….how you add or substarct the people from the list of my people!

  270. Prem Abhay says:

    Shahriar VERY IMPORTANT

    There is nothing wrong with Swami Rajneesh saying that he understands Osho, as long as it is on his own authority. Osho never left a successor and the Inner-Circle did not have a spiritual mandate. Therefore there is noone that can say that they are doing or saying something from Osho.

    Kranti your misunderstanding of Swami Rajneesh is based on the following. Swami Rajneesh’s master was Osho. Now Swami Rajneesh claims to be himself a master. This means that he is in the position of both having a master and being independently himself a master. This is why he is both similar and different to Osho, and why his understanding is at times in accord with Osho, and at other times not. There is not contradiction. If Swami Rajneesh was a carbon copy of Osho I myself would be suspicious of this. If Swami Rajneesh was an exact opposite of Osho I myself would be suspicious of this. Whether he is or is not enlightened, he is both similar and different to Osho. This does not mean that his criticisms mean he is being hypocritical, including with respect to the Samadhi issue.

    Kranti I agree that whoever rejects Amrito summarily has a closed and reactionary mind (that is hiding strong emotions). I also agree with you that whoever accepts Swami Rajneesh summarily has a closed and non-reactionary mind (that is hiding strong emotions). From this however you cannot draw any conclusions about Swami Rajneesh (nor Amrito). Of course a Masters job is to open closed minds, to help release and heal trauma, and to raise consciousness.

    Shantam I have heard many times a similar tale that the beloved must be with Osho else not at all. I can understand this for when Osho was in the body. I can not understand it otherwise, especially if a (supposed) master is an Osho disciple. Of course such a master may be a fraud. Still unless you yourself were enlightened while Osho was in the body you cannot say with any certainty whether he was enlightened himself.

    Yahoo
    Abhay

  271. Shahriar says:

    “Shahriar VERY IMPORTANT

    There is nothing wrong with Swami Rajneesh saying that he understands Osho, as long as it is on his own authority. Osho never left a successor and the Inner-Circle did not have a spiritual mandate. Therefore there is noone that can say that they are doing or saying something from Osho.”

    Prem Abhay, my emphasis was on the fact that no one can say that they understand Osho as long as they are unenlightened and when they are enlightened, they can simply speak on their own authority. I am not sure if you are familiar with the story of Buddha and Ananda. Ananda was buddha’s cousin-brother and when Buddha left his body, all the disciples came together to compile the scriptures. The disciples decided that Ananda’s version of the scriptures was the right one because of one small thing. Everyone started the scriptures with “The buddha said” and Ananda started the scripture with “I have heard the buddha say”. not that buddha said this, but this is simply what I heard. Another thing is that rajneesh cannot say that he represents Osho in anyway, he can only say that he represents himself and his understanding of Osho. Nothing else.

  272. Shanti says:

    Now rajneesh is enlightened? my god! if there is one…
    Are you abhay the hidden buddha too, that your alter ego harri-om soaks about?

  273. meera says:

    shantam

    do you count Sheela
    and HER GANG as sannyasins ..?!

    where Osho himself
    has declared them as Gang?

    ´´when OSHO came back from America

    he told us in detail
    WHO are GANGSMEMBERS

    the cunning priesthood (therapists) and
    greedy politicians man-agement“

  274. meera says:

    having taken sannyas
    dosen´t mean anything

    doesen´t mean you are automatically

    THE VERY SALT OF THIS EARTH

    after all Sheela has understood
    what she has done in the past..

    I would rather count her in
    then those above mentioned
    priests and politicians

  275. meera says:

    Shahriar

    every enlightended disciple
    of the
    MASTER

    REPRESENTS THE MASTER

  276. shantam prem says:

    And i think Meera has also heard Osho saying,” 99% enlightend are FRAUDS, Bogus gurus, worst than rapists.

    Naturally it leaves scope for everyone to say, yes My prick is not less than 10 inches, im am that 1% !!

  277. meera says:

    not because of your prick shantam

    one should know him/ herself
    and decide on his/her own authority

    whether you are enlightended

    or not…

    therapists are the true rapists…

    being a therapist
    is a sure sign 99%
    of a fucked -up FRAUD

  278. meera says:

    I don´t know shantam
    if you ever heard Osho saying:

    ´slowly get away
    from artificial groupsystems
    and come
    to the
    GROUP´

  279. meera says:

    WHAT IS ENLIGHTENMENT?????????ß

    False Enlightenment


    The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

  280. shantam prem says:

    Meera,
    Just opened the link you have mentioned above, “My God you want to scare me with a monkey.”
    10 seconds were enough!

    Let me find some site with silicon, atleast they will be more real and humane!
    Any way, after the above one, tell me one site of my choice!

    Really Meera, You are truely an American, hanging around in India in search of snake charmers!

    May be one day you will go back home to write a best seller about Indian enlightends. Air India, if it survived can offer you a free life long pass for promoting, ” Incredible India.”

    PS- Please, don’t think, i am a sex junkie, need some shrink or a guru.

    Om Shanti Shanti Shanti OM!

  281. shantam prem says:

    And Meera Ma,
    Please, don’t judge from my friendly tease any malefic intentions or any hate for you or your beliefs.
    I have no intention not even in worst nightmares to become big by making others small.
    But being His people, it is no harm to be outlandish, to tickle with the rejected words, used in the dark alleis of life.
    Our master Has made Fuck as sacred as Om.
    When heart is pure, nothing is bad!

    Love
    shantam

  282. meera says:

    don´t worry shantam

    we are ALL born out of SEX

    nothing wrong with that….

    only the cunning priesthood

    and greedy politicians
    have crippled our sexuality..

    and why don´t you like sweet Shiva Baba Dattareya
    he is such a sweetheart….

    and YES I love INDIA::

    INDIA MY LOVE

  283. shantam prem says:

    Why i don’t like Mr. A or Sri Sir B or divine Ma C or Satsang giver Miss Pussy Cat D.

    It is not a question of liking or disliking.

    I am simply contented with my journey with Osho..
    Little yet best is good for me, by nature i am not like nymphomaniac!

    If there is some discontentment, it is because some kind of “Shanti” is missing not because some highty mighty.

    And also once you have tasted the best food, you wish to share with others. For this i am screaming for months, because resort people are not serving His recipes.

  284. Kranti says:

    ” “This is what enlightenment is all about – a deep understanding that there is no problem. Then, with no problem to solve, what will you do? Immediately you start living. You will eat, you will sleep, you will love, you will work, you will have a chit-chat, you will sing, you will dance – what else is there to do?” “- Osho

  285. Kranti says:

    I am still laughing at Shantam’s reaction like this

    ” My God you want to scare me with a monkey.”
    10 seconds were enough! ”

    When it comes to spontaneuous reactions no one can beat Shantam..

  286. Kranti says:

    I am still laughing…Shantam..uncontrollably..sitting in office

  287. meera says:

    HAHAHAAAA

    calling Dattareya a monkey….

    must be
    because you are monkeys…

  288. meera says:

    Kranti

    thanks for these wonder-ful words of Osho

  289. shantam prem says:

    Meera dear,
    EnLidLment is such a bloody product that any one can sell it without any mandatory laboratory test.

    But if some psychological evolutionary test exist, i am willing to go through this, with any name you suggest…

    I am willing to bet.

    Just because i prefer Levis jeans instead of magician’s dress, just because i prefer to live like everybody without the drive to make people awake, does not put me below the level of some youtube celebrety,

    And this i can say for many many sannyasins, who are living in Alpha zone, without speaking esoteric nonsense…

  290. Kranti says:

    Meera i didnt call anyone monkey.. I was only enjoying the spontaneous reaction of Shantam.. I always does..

  291. meera says:

    I´m surprised Kranti
    you are laughing about this…….

    you never laughed
    when Rajneesh called the inner circle baboons

    what magicians dresses are you refering to ,shantam…? Osho´s??!!

  292. shantam prem says:

    I give you one example Meera,

    If you are in India, from any grossery shop buy a packet of Parle Krackjack Biscuits.
    Once these biscuits became so much famous that with in a year there were many copy cats with the same style.
    So Parle issued an advertisement blitz, ” just by wearing the magician’s hat, one doesnot become magician.”

    The way i have read in the news,Echrad Tolle’s book Now has broken all the records in the spiritual catagory of books. I have not read this book and on you tube i have listend him for a minute or so..and till now i have not got any sarcastic comment about him..

    I can say…dog of a good house keeper, barks only when it is really needed.

  293. meera says:

    shantam

    If you want to love people, the shadow will be there — the shadow will be of hate.

    * You have to accept the negative too. When you walk in the sun, you have to accept your shadow too. If you don’t accept your shadow and you start fighting with it, you will never reach anywhere — you will be fighting with the shadow. Whenever you move, the shadow will be there, so you jump again on the shadow . . . and a shadow is a shadow.
    * Each positive has its shadow — the negative. If you want to love people, the shadow will be there — the shadow will be of hate. If you really want to destroy hate, you will have to destroy love too. And that will not be a game, it will not be worthwhile. If you want to destroy the shadow, you will have to run inside and close your room, and hide there — no sun, no shadow. But what is the point of losing the sunshine? You will be losing life itself.
    * I can understand where the problem comes from. We have been brought up, we have been conditioned in such a way, that we cannot think that the negative belongs to us. That’s why we always try to make the other responsible for the negative. If you become angry, you simply say ‘The other was behaving in such a way — that’s why I’m angry.’ You don’t take the responsibility; you make the other responsible. And by making the others responsible, you are losing your freedom. Now you will never be free, because what can you do? If the other creates anger, he can create. And there are millions of others — how will you manage?

  294. garimo says:

    Meera,

    I want equanimity
    I want sincerity
    I what honesty
    I want clarity
    I want authenticity

    I’m thinking I’ll have a better chance of getting these things from my box of rocks than I would by spending more time with you.

  295. garimo says:

    sorry, posted in wrong thread… but then they’re all Meera stuff anyway.

  296. meera says:

    thinking and wanting….

    drop all thinking

    garimo

    and stop wanting…

    thats the only way to more freedom and silence

    you sound angry and dissappionted….

    wonder what this guy expects from me…. lol

  297. meera says:

    garimo

    If you become angry,
    you simply say
    ‘The other was behaving in such a way
    — that’s why I’m angry.’
    You don’t take the responsibility;
    you make the other responsible.
    And by making the others responsible,
    you are losing your freedom.
    Now you will never be free,
    because what can you do?
    If the other creates anger,
    he can create.
    And there are millions of others
    — how will you manage?

  298. garimo says:

    Why would I feel angry.
    My box of rocks accepts me exactly as I am…
    They never tell me how I should be different to suit them.
    They never ramble on repeating old mind games.
    “Do this”… “Drop that”… “I know better than you”…
    My box of rocks is exactly what it presents itself as.
    I can trust my box of rocks without question.
    What’s to be angry about? I’m feeling contentment.

    I wonder if Meera is jealous of my box of rocks?

  299. frank says:

    careful…
    if they can chop your dick off,
    they can can crush your rocks too……

  300. deva daricha says:

    one knows the truth for oneself

    how could it be otherwise?