We received this Open letter from Sajjad: While we think much of it is nonsense, please let it be noticed that we are publishing it and offering debate around it. Sajjad praises in this letter the much bigger site Oshonews but there is no way that any critical debate can go on there as no comments are welcome. He or she also thinks it is best to have a woman in charge of such things – actually this is precisely why the least desirable sides of Rajneeshpuram arose. Men and women should run things together and not in a some matriarchy. It is not some either/or thing: men and women can work together quite amicably, particularly in journalism. One senses the nub of the matter is around humour, and its acceptability. Like it or not, Osho was a man, and loved to crack jokes, sometimes at other people’s expense, and told them on a daily basis.
“I am writing this letter to God knows who, but never mind.
I am probably voicing the opinion of a lot of sannyasins here. For years I have been looking at the sannyas-scene, once in a while checking out websites like Sannyasnews and others and wondering if being a sannyasin or disciple (or whatever we are supposed to be these days) of Osho is being part of an “Old Boys Club”? I mean philosophizing (or mind-tripping) on any subject under the sun with some other Old Boys. Most letters in the chat room of Sannyasnews seem to come from men, with names like Lokesh, Arpana, Bodhi, Dagmar Frantzen or something…and they go on for hours, days even mumbling on and on about some totally insignificant subject. Most of it is totally unreadable for any outsider in full capacity of his senses, but sometimes I try to at least read an article and skip all the blabbering comments! Most of what is posted is hardly “news” what to say of “sannyas” (this Lokesh person says he is a disciple of Goohabadhi or some such Guru), it all just adds to the confusion there already is these days in the sannyasworld.
Then there is an interesting new site I like to check out once in a while “OshoNews”Online, at least here the editor is a woman called Punya as far as I can tell. That means the subjects and articles at least are a bit more fresh and fun to read, instead of dead and dry. These “Old Boys” give me a headache with their cynical humorisms and unreadable “nudge/nudge..wink/wink” jokes and punchlines which of course only they can understand, being part of “The Club”. They seem to be (re)tired sannyasins living with a wealth of free time, do they have jobs?? Lokesh proudly professes somewhere he does vipassana for 6 hours a day…wow! And still he has time to post insane comments?
Like I said, I know quite a few sannyasins, fellow travellers of Osho, who feel this way. And sometimes we also wonder about the whole controversy regarding copyrights and trademarks and what is happening in Poona. Personally, I would like to say one thing: If I remember correctly when Osho was in the body His primary function was to wake us up by using devices. So why should it be any different with Osho “out of the body”? Let’s just assume the whole thing is just a device so that His Dream can stay fresh and alive! And creating confusion is just a part of that device to keep it alive, it’s not so difficult to imagine. So for example, He said “you can’t trademark meditation” in the past in public and to people in Poona before leaving the body He said “trademark my meditations” in private. I don’t see the contradiction, anyway with Him out of the body the whole situation changes…He is no longer there Himself to keep the situation fresh and alive through devices! So trust Osho to create confusion after his death! Now people in Poona are trying hard to keep Osho’s message pure gold and a lot of other people are checking on those people in Poona who are in charge (mostly disagreeing with them), it sure as hell has stayed as alive as when He was in the body! I don’t see the problem? Celebrate, don’t go dead on the whole thing, that is sooooooo Male! All the Devils are doing their thing but don’t become so serious about whatever it is that you are doing!
Love Sajjad “
Hilarious.
Sitting in the pavilion throwing rocks at the players.
After the most careful analytic examination of this text by the POPES*, I’m afraid that the definitive ruling is that this most unfortunate chap suffers frm HAIDS+.
Lazy as well, he clearly can’t even be bothered to read properly as he thinks ‘Dagmar Frantzen’ is a man…Credibility shot to pieces by this alone…(Go get him, Madhu!).
As for Osho deliberately creating chaos after his death, well, all I can say is (to paraphrase Pink Floyd), “Dream on, you crazy dickhead!”
*Praesidium of Ordinary People and Expert Sannyasins
+Humour And Irony Deficiency Syndrome.
Some Answers for you, Sajjad:
You are posting it to 3784 viewers who have visited SN in the past 30 days.
You ask:
Is a sannyasin or a disciple of Osho being part of an “Old Boys Club”?
No.
Your reaction to discussion is the same as all Dictators: you can’t stand it and therefore call it mumbling on about insignificant subjects. The same criticism was made of Socrates, and those critics eventually got so annoyed with him they arranged his execution on false charges of corrupting the young!
As far as ” News” content: well there is by way of proportion of text more news here than over at OshoNews, but you complement that site for its bland in flight magazine approach.
You fail to “understand” the humour of Lokesh. It reminds one of German sannyasins in Poona one, who always asked English sannyasins to “explain” the jokes in Osho discourses – after the lectures were over!
You seem to think that the “divisions” of modern day sannyas are okay, and represent an Osho device. Actually such a view has often been put forward by sannyasnews punters, though the Editorial Board does not share that view. So why don’t you feel at home here?
You ask:
Is a sannyasin or a disciple of Osho being part of an ‘Old Boys Club’?
Yes.
Too much interest in money, too much trust on transform the inner and the rest will follow, too small interest in the outside world and society make the sannyas movement getting old very fast, with no capacity of inner renewal, because not able to go further than the past and relate with the present, and not able to recognize the mistakes of our “beloved master”.
El Chudo (Shantam, who is a regular contributor here) has currently a featured article over at OshoNews.
It is called: An Open Letter to Both Hands of Osho.
The article is a load of nonsense, and he actually first approached SannyasNews with the article, which we declined. But there it is featured at:
http://www.oshonews.com/2014/09/an-open-letter-to-both-hands-of-osho/ .
BUT there is nowhere to put forward the obvious criticisms of that banal middlebrow, El Chudo (and come to think of it, a sort of middlebrow feeling is what one gets all over that site) despite all their financial and other backing!
“The article is a load of nonsense.” Hardly surprising, seeing as how El Chudo penned it. I’ll bet the king is worried right now about Sajjad. He is definitly a contender for the Chump of the Year Crown. Chudo must fight back…I suggest that he writes an article about how he would run the Resort were he in charge. That would seal his victory for sure.
Thanks, Sajjad, for supplying a few good laughs. If you don’t dig SN why not simply move on to a site that provides you with something more up your street? (I almost said back passage). The door is always open and nobody invited you…just like The Hotel California.
You advise, “don’t become so serious about whatever it is that you are doing!”, yet you obviously are not following your own good advice. When I read your comment to Vivek, explaining what Osho was all about, my immediate response was to think, “what a Charlie!”
Now, if you will excuse me, I must draw my comment to a close. It is a Wednesday night up here in the north of Scotland and I’m off to make a wager at the Haggis Track. I think Hot Sporran is a good bet. He has won his last five races with over a kilometre lead on his competitors.
Kilometre, Lokesh? Where do you think you are?
One must be blind to the facts to describe open letter as Nonsense.
People who have not been to Pune 2 for a single day will live and die by mourning their Ma Sheela.
Come on, guys, be intelligent and fair to understand the commas and dots of politics operating in the world of Osho´s Sannyas.
I have said again and again to deny politics is to deny the kidney, liver and intestines.
Yes, there are axxholes who think they are beyond it because they have installed borrowed knowledge in their natural memory drive.
Shantam said
“Yes, there are axxholes who think they are beyond it because they have installed borrowed knowledge in their natural memory drive.”
A description of you, as usual.
“I suggest that he writes an article about how he would run the Resort were he in charge. That would seal his victory for sure.”
Thanks, Lokesh.
It is not about my victory, but I say thank you again for creating the necessary push to write a clear manifesto, as close as I have seen Osho dictating through his actions, presence, command:
‘Manifesto for the new chairman of Osho Foundation International.’
God willing, I will be able to do it in the coming days.
BELOVED OSHO,
THE ORANGE TRICKED ME, CAUGHT HOLD OF ME AND BROUGHT ME HERE. EVERYBODY SEEMS TO KNOW BUT NOBODY TELLS ME ALL OF IT. I THINK AND MEDITATE ON THE ORANGE — FOR DAYS — BUT THERE STILL REMAINS A SECRET IN IT. MY NAME IS FIRE AND THERE IS FIRE BURNING IN ME. IS THAT NOT ENOUGH?
I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN AFRAID TO WEAR UNIFORMS AND UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS IN MY WAY OF WEARING THE ORANGE. I DON’T KNOW WHY. DO I HAVE TO WEAR IT AS A MESSAGE, OR IS IT SIMPLY A MEDITATION ON ITS OWN, ON THE PATH TO THE LIGHT?
Sybrand, there is no secret in it, it is just a way to recognize my people. I have poor eyesight, my eyes have gone all inwards. I will tell you one story:
I know of a tragic case where a minister made just one little transgression. For weeks, this preacherly pious man had admired and coveted a flashy sport coat in a clothing store window. It was colorful, too colorful for a preacher; for a preacher it was almost blasphemous. But finally one afternoon he cracked and went in and bought that blasphemous coat. It was a bright sunny day as he stepped out of the clothing store in his gaudy garb. Yet, lo and behold, right there in the bright sunlight he was struck dead by a lightning bolt.
Up in heaven he was dumbfounded as he faced the Lord. “Lord, oh Lord!” he said. “Why me? And why so suddenly after all my years of faithful service?” “Why, Reverend Smith!” said the Lord. “What a dreadful mistake! We had no idea it was you.” So, I just have poor eyesight to recognize my people. If you want to become one of my people you will have to wear orange. There is no secret about it, all those secrets that I have been telling you are all just bullshit.
Enough for today.
Osho.
The Book of Wisdom
Chapter #24
Chapter title: Bring in the New Man
6 March 1979 am in Buddha Hall
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QX_VG8dWG5w
This is a wonderful, spellbinding video, where, contrary to a few watchers’ comments, I feel the New York journalist did an excellent job, asking the sort of questions many people unversed in spiritual matters might well have wanted to ask.
Here is a transcript of the Video.
http://txs.io/qTrb
Personally, Shantam, beyond the fact that I have absolutely no idea of the actual financial matters of the Resort, and it is none of my concern, what those guys in charge are doing looks fantastic to me: getting rid of icons, symbols, devotional songs, pictures and the whole cultist attitude, tolerable while the master is alive, but a burden when he is gone, is just a delightful idea.
You have to think that those guys are not newcomers, but are in fact among the closest friends of the old man. Amrito, in particular, is the closest you can come to describe anyone as a personal friend of Osho. Although probably neitrher of them would describe thir relationship in those terms. Most of the other close friends, Chetana, Anando, Jayesh, Devageet, Maneesha and Arup have been open supporters of the ways things have gone with the former ashram.
I have no idea if they are following Osho´s instructions, as they say, or they are making their own decisions, but what they have done is the most intelligent move I have seen in the history of religious movements. To turn an ashram into a resort is not only smart, it is a blessing. Imagine if the Vatican would have been turned into a some sort of open art gallery and museum, or the Mecca in a wounderful stadium..Another world would have dawned upon us.
Greetings,
Anthony
Anthony, if you take fizz away from Cola it is no more cola. Nobody pays for the Scotch which taste like piss.
Religious or so-called spiritual or fitness studios, it is always the end customer who decides or the very founder who raises company out of scratch.
On every front, Jayesh´s leadership has failed. He got readymade property where money was poured by the people who were singing devotional songs and dancing in the five festivals. He can not even afford to pay the bills. Source of income has dried out.
If you ever go to Pune again, you can see yourself or just check the Resort photos at facebook.
Happy hour pubs have more variety of people.
Seconded.
I seconded Anthony’s post; ie I agree, though I do love the old songs.
I like your reply Anthony, and second the seconder! I also like the old songs so it must be a seconder’s weakness!
Why not Anthony, Alok John and Parmartha write a joint letter to Jayesh for Sannyas-based referendum?
Let anyone who changed his name and identity because of Osho influence get a right to say, “Old System or New.”
If New System gets 20% support, yes, just 20% support, in my eyes they will be winner.
“Love, Vedant Sajjad (= that which is beyond words, devotee)”
Your ´love´ and ´devotion´, Vedant Sajjad, ´beyond words´, you shared especially with a newcomer like Vivek Raj, who – in awareness of internet factuality’s* – posted to the Sannyas News tribal gatherings about what he is moved by, concerning ´paradoxes´about a Master like Osho and His Sangha.
Vivek, I experienced quite honest and intege , quite opposite to some stuff you come up with as a ‘sermon on the mount’ kind of preacher, looking for sheep (?) and disqualifying the chit-chat of contributors here.
Otherwise you compare some other websites you prefer to the one here at this place, and maybe that is your way of advertising business, who knows?
The Net is a free space and yet very unfree too; comparing it with a spider’s web, the latter being a natural piece of art and very useful for the spider, is not as wrong as it appears to be…
It’s a challenge for everybody to develop a way or ways to express and share a quality of connecting with others, one cannot meet in the body just now, unknown and unknowable as well as a possibility meeting oneself, because the next to any contribution (effort or no effort) is the contributor him or herself; I would call that one of the first ´laws of meditation´.
So – to ´Know Thyself´ can be applied in the Net and may be even better encountered as in moments when you have ´the other´ seeable, feelable, tangible´in the physical realms quite before your nose…
And to realize that it’s all about judging is a free inter-net lesson available any moment, isn´t it?
As you are so devoted to the Master Osho, you will easily get that.
Yours sincerely,
Madhu
PS:
* means open viewing for anybody who plugs in
PPS:
Your kind of ´love´ seems to have as many conditions that I can not even count the number – just by reading what you posted recently.
I have always found the pages of Sannycide News enthralling.
The sports pages are always updated with the latest results from our reader frontlines who like to point score.
The fashion pages bring us the latest trends in contemporary designer thinking.
The lifestyle pages give handy tips on keeping your opinion to yourself until it no longer serves its purpose and then given away free or in part exchange on the ‘Used’ section.
We have a no-nonsense site entirely devoted to the non-veneration of Osho. The editors have kindly provided a pull-out weekend section for anyone who wants to go out when they are stuck inside themselves.
There is ‘agony aunt’ legal-sexual advice on ‘Wilting whilst doing the Law of the hole’ from our resident expert, Alastair Creeply-Lowen.
There is a handy pc section for computer nerds who are offended when they read something they should not have read on their computer, whilst sitting in their aloneness again.
There is regular environmental, absolutelymental and ‘is only on day-release from the Sanatorium’, contributions from both eco-worriers and bi-polar scientists .
The knit your own language section comes direct to us via a handy Oshdroid app on Giggle Translate and guarantees hours of fun for all the dysfunctional family.
The political section contains excellent reviews of what is happening down on the Ranch, and is compiled by our lesson-learning features editor; Ian Myday.
Religious affairs section specialist, The Reverend Nkwame Lulu Pik McBotha Tutu is always on hand, with complaints from married men coming in early from work to find he is having one.
Sannyas News…get yours in early.
Martyn, very cleva, mate. Brought a smile. Ironic, isn’t it?
Another PS for Sajjid:
Madhu Dagmar Frantzen, the name and the spirit – ´me´ – is embodied in a woman´s body, and I loved it and love it, that it is that way….
And – Sajjid (Vedant),
to make another thing clear – I am an old aged women, quite ugly and stinking and not in the role to please a husband or talking care of grandchildren , a single entity so to say.
And since my teeth fall out and my left leg was broken and many
and since could not meet fellow travelers like before more regular as also in the body, face to face –
and having not a bunch of `work of Honor´how it is called here, to hold any of the lines very busy
it is true , that I have space and time to write and to read and to respond
or try my best to respond.
And for the time being , I chose after long onlooking this very website to let that be.
And who are you, to judge that ?
Madhu
“Sajjad praises in this letter the much bigger site Oshonews but there is no way that any critical debate can go on there as no comments are welcome.” – SN
Although SN allows comments, unfortunately little critical debate happens on SN. SN comments do allow for insult (ad hominem attack), fishing expeditions, and smug, cynical, self-righteous commentary. Some comments betray a concern for pigeon-holing and stereotyping. Some demonstrate a lack of respect for, or even recognition of, our buddhahood. Expressions on SN of genuine antipathy for the sharing of Osho’s words are also surprising.
There is also some thoughtful commentary on SN, some heartfelt sharing, and some Osho jokes. The open comments section (“All sannyasins welcome”) provides for a healthy mix.
In any event, there is no need to compare OshoNews and SannyasNews and judge one superior to another. Both are expressions of Osho’s vision in their own way. Both contain beautiful expressions from buddhas.
Kabir1440 (unidentified age, nationality, gender, religion)
Brian-the-Clone, you say:
“Although SN allows comments, unfortunately little critical debate happens on SN.”
In fact, there’s plenty of “critical debate” here, Brian – it just often happens to be in terms that you person-ally find uncomfortable.
For example, you no doubt regard my remarks to and concerning you as ‘ad hominem’ attacks and therefore questionable in such a supposedly ‘spiritual’ forum. Although, of course, you have claimed to be enjoying the ‘conversation’…(I wonder)…
But the point is that I perceive how you present yourself here (significantly, including the personal details you choose to hide) and much of what you say as pretentious waffle, thoroughly deserving to be undermined. Which to me qualifies to be placed under the heading of “critical debate”.
In fact, when it comes down to it, there are arguably perhaps few more deserving topics than examining the claims of individual seekers, according to the evidence presented.
Although no one can possibly really ‘know’ another’s interior world, in many cases it’s possible to have a pretty shrewd idea of where someone’s actually at, rather than where they think or say they are at. And for me, you’re one of those cases, I’m afraid.
At times I have the feeling that in not doing groups Indian sannyasins might well have missed out on something potentially very valuable, as they so often come across as having significant ‘blind spots’ in their make-up, aspects of themselves they are unable and unwilling to look at – like all of us, but at least those of us with the right group experience are likely to be more aware of such deficiencies.
Kabir (aka Brian-the-Clone) and Sajjad, for example, appear the type, apparently from an educated Indian elite, never to have had themselves, their assumptions, attitudes, ways of being etc. etc. genuinely ‘challenged’ in the way that’s par for the course for most westerners, whether sannyasins or not.
Thus, unused to this, here they tend to automatically reject it as ‘unspiritual’, continuing to think uncritically of themselves, very likely imagining they are more ‘advanced’, ‘higher’ than they actually are.
Btw, chaps, this is not a racist comment, it’s simply an observation, intended to be helpful. I made a number of Indian friends while over there (likewise Bengalis here in London).
“Although no one can possibly really ‘know’ another’s interior world, in many cases it’s possible to have a pretty shrewd idea of where someone’s actually at, rather than where they think or say they are at. And for me, you’re one of those cases, I’m afraid.”
Beloved Satyadeva, thank you for admitting this. It is also possible that someone makes a lot of assumptions based on nothing (a lack of knowledge) and then gains enjoyment from “circling his prey” (Arpana’s words) based on incorrect assumptions.
You should look up the meaning of the word critical in the OED. A critique is not negative. A critique is an evaluation of both positive and negative facets.
Critique: “A detailed analysis and assessment of something…” –Oxford Dictionary
Your need to know age, nationality, gender, etc., followed by your sarcasm and name-calling, says more about you than you realize.
Not to mention that we are on the anonymous internet on a public forum where personal claims about age, nationality, gender, etc. cannot be verified, even if they were relevant.
You have been busy trying to manipulate me into telling you who I am; your mind is busy making assumptions about “where I’m really at.”
Having failed, you proceed to categorize and judge based on your absence of knowledge. It is amusing to me, and revealing about you.
“The mind goes on bossing, goes on judging, evaluating,
condemning, saying, ‘This is good — that is bad.’ The mind is a priest, and a catholic priest at that. The mind
is a puritan… absolutely a victorian.” –Osho, The Passion for the Impossible, ch. 26
Brian-the-Clone (aka Kabir), with your notes on the meaning of “critique” you betray your inexperience in this sort of issue, where, as in an encounter-type therapeutic process, you are being confronted with one or two things about yourself (or how you present yourself here).
In fact, I’m all for balanced, fair assessments, but it’s too early to reach a conclusion in your case as, unfortunately, you’ve elicited continuing ‘investigation’ by your foolish insistence on refusing to provide basic personal details about yourself. Which merely demonstrates that you have ‘something to hide’. If you can’t see this simple fact then you’re far more of a fool than I’ve taken you for.
You see, you have made great play of always being “lazy”, ‘just like Osho’ (although the truth is, he was, as Lokesh has pointed out, far from lazy), implying by association its and hence your elevated spiritual virtue.
But when asked how far that ‘laziness’ has actually reached into your life by means of the simple question as to what work you have done in the world – and how, as an Indian, you could have survived without working for a living or being one of the rich and privileged – you clam up like a hedgehog, as if such information is under the ‘DO NOT TOUCH – CLASSIFIED/TOP SECRET’ heading!
Now, when challenged, you play another tricky little card, claiming it’s a waste of time anyway as anyone, including you, can just lie online, without fear of discovery. That being the case, why should I or anyone else believe a single word you’ve written or will ever write here?
I mean, what exactly are you so deathly afraid of?!
What a joke, you really couldn’t make it up: the man who claims to have made so much ‘spiritual progress’ that, amongst other ‘high’ attributes, he actually ‘sees buddhas’ in his local supermarket, is too afraid to say what his work is or has been – and even more laughably, what his age, nationality or even, God help us, his sex is!
That’s why I call you ‘Brian-the-Clone’, because the phoniness of it all simply stinks.
I suspect that ‘irony’ does not figure on the courses of Indian universities. They seem to have no idea about it. Whether this could have been remedied by the Indians doing groups…well, one doesn’t know.
Many of the misunderstandings on SN by these serious-minded Indians and the sort of condemnations that Kabir 1440 makes is because there seems to be a complete absence of any understanding of irony. Maybe this is an English thing, but one recalls that Osho had an English girlfriend, and that Amrito who might be said to have known Osho best at a personal level was an English Doctor. So Osho himself would have been no stranger to it.
“I suspect that ‘irony’ does not figure on the courses of Indian universities. They seem to have no idea about it.” – Parmartha
If you define irony as the humour which distinguishes between the way things are and the way the practitioner of irony thinks things should be, then irony exists at all levels of Indian life. The Indian has to live with the gap, but irony helps to keep adversity in perspective. Irony is a sophisticated approach to life, suggesting one thing while saying another. You are right, Parmartha, that this often leads to misunderstandings, but I don’t think it is a cultural lack of irony in India causing the problems of miscommunication.
–Kabir1440
(unidentified age, nationality, gender, religion)
“Kabir1440
(unidentified age, nationality, gender, religion)”
Age: mid-50′s
Nationality: Indian
Gender: Male
Religion: Self-Delusion
Work Experience: None – due to inherited wealth. Prefers to term himself chronically “lazy” as that’s the most ‘spiritual’ rationalisation he can come up with.
Alter Ego: Brian-the-Clone (aka Swami Rajneesh)
Beloved Satyadeva, why do you want to pigeon-hole people as either Indian or Western? Why do you make comparisons, and judgements about who is “spiritual” who has “blind spots” and who is “delusional”? Who are you and what is your criteria?
“Never compare, because all comparison is foolish. Everybody is just like himself. What is the point of comparing? Who are you to compare? And who are you to fix a criterion — to decide who is learned and who is not learned? Who are you to make a criterion who is beautiful and who is not beautiful? Who are you? Why should you judge? Jesus says, ‘Judge ye not.’
–Osho, The Discipline of Transcendence, Vol 2, ch. 1
PS. To SN: break out the popcorn, this could go on for some time as Satyadeva is intent on exposing me as an Indian male in his 50′s who has never worked a day in his life… LOL!
The series of questions in the first paragraph again betrays your inexperience and lack of understanding of this sort of discussion. The basic point is your stubborn refusal to reveal any details about yourself. It’s as simple as that.
Anyone who insists on hiding them as you do instantly comes under suspicion of being afraid, of ‘having something to hide’. It ain’t ‘rocket science’, it ain’t depth psychology, you don’t need a degree to get the picture, it’s something anyone on the street could understand, no problem at all.
I repeat:
You see, you have made great play of always being “lazy”, ‘just like Osho’ (although the truth is, he was, as Lokesh has pointed out, far from lazy), implying by association its and hence your elevated spiritual virtue.
But when asked how far that ‘laziness’ has actually reached into your life by means of the simple question as to what work you have done in the world – and how, as an Indian, you could have survived without working for a living or being one of the rich and privileged – you clam up like a hedgehog, as if such information is under the ‘DO NOT TOUCH – CLASSIFIED/TOP SECRET’ heading!
Can you not see that by insisting on refusing to answer you’re ‘digging a hole for yourself’?
And, of course, you won’t answer, because that would be like a ‘defeat’, wouldn’t it? And no one likes to ‘lose’ – ironically enough, especially those who are, shall we say, er, ‘egoically attached’ to their ‘spirituality’.
Never mind, it’s all just a “leela”, isn’t it, Brian-the-Clone/Swami R?
“Never mind, it’s all just a “leela”, isn’t it…?” – Satyadeva
Beloved Satyadeva, at last we agree! I am happy…for no reason. There is no purpose to our conversation, we are just enjoying. Sat Chit Ananda.
“When all goals disappear and life is not looked on as a desire project, when life is not thought of as a work and becomes play, leela, then… then you are at home. Then you have arrived.”
–Osho, The Discipline of Transcendence, v. 2, ch. 2
This is your doctor speaking: I see you are suffering from a rather severe case of ID*, a condition which, left untreated, can cause all manner of problems, particularly in the area of perception (at both gross and finer levels).
This can easily degenerate into ‘going to the DOG(S)’^, whereby, despite all evidence to the contrary, the patient insists he (or she) is merely “engaging in a leela” (whatever that means).
Unfortunately, in chronic cases like yours, the remedy tends to be quite bitter-tasting, which is invariably more than somewhat shocking to a previously rather ‘sheltered’ psycho-physical palate.
The system can then put up resistance, however obviously futile or irrelevant, including repeatedly quoting the sayings of a spiritual master (usually out of context), an aberrant reaction which unfortunately can only be countered by further public exposure, often culminating in the patient being revealed as a complete and utterly fraudulent ‘tosser’.
*ID – Irony Deficiency
^DOG(S) – Delusions of Grandeur (Spiritual)
Firstly, let me just congratulate the Ed. for the intro to the open letter. Some good points made, esp.
1. That SN is a forum for open critical debate.
2. Osho liked to ‘crack’ jokes, and sometimes ‘took the Michael’ out of those who needed his blessings.
Ta.
And now to Beloved Saddaj:
Have just attempted to read for the second time, your previous post on the last thread, and have arrived at the conclusion that somehow or other, you seem to have found your way home, kiddo. ‘Takes one to know one’, as they say!
I reckon you’ll fit in a treat with some of the characters on this site.
Come on down and have some fun, it’s celebration time here! It don’t get any better!
To be honest, Saddaj, I think you know this already.
Nothing quite like a positive attitude.
Thank you, I take that as a compliment. As you well know Lokesh, I can always be relied upon to be positive, whatever is flying around!
´Open postcard´for Arpana,
Thank you for post ing a today´s ´vid´, its a very juicy one and a challenging one too.
To find an alarm clock for the wakeup call, even working propperly , after quite some thirty years to go. Is an ´A ´ Miracle.
And with a little music too (at ´the end and the…enough to …and for that day´)
Reminder to walk with the feet and not with the head or stuff what is not made for walking – like boots when it is muddy, a simply intelligent choice.
I had an indoor day and a laundry day too, had a good company with THAT.
Love,
Madhu
Do you know Tarot?
I drew these two cards for you.
(((o(*ﾟ▽ﾟ*)o)))
“That being the case, why should I or anyone else believe a single word you’ve written or will ever write here?” –Satyadeva
Beloved Satyadeva, you should NOT believe anything you read on the internet, unless you can verify the information; which is why my posting Osho quotes is of more value than your uninformed opinions/guesses. The Osho quotes can be verified. Your opinion/guess/assumption about my supposed spiritual state cannot be verified. Why should anyone believe a single word you have written? Sannyas is a simple joyful dance. Don’t try to make it so transcendental.
“I mean, what exactly are you so deathly afraid of?!” — Satyadeva
Beloved Satyadeva, you were “circling your prey” (lol!) and Arpana wisely advised me not to reveal any personal details (thank you, Arpana!). It was the correct decision. Fear has nothing to do with it. We are just engaging in leela here, that’s all.
“What a joke, you really couldn’t make it up”
Yes, now you are getting it! I am a joke. And you are kindly participating in the joke!
“The man who claims to have made so much ‘spiritual progress’ that, amongst other ‘high’ attributes, he actually ‘sees buddhas’ in his local supermarket…”
I have not said I am a woman or a man. And who has claimed to have made “so much spiritual progress”? To be able to unmask such a charlatan on SN must require having even “higher attributes,” don’t you think? Congratulations, Archarya Satyadeva!
I am not bragging or making claims of “spiritual progress” when I say I see buddhas in my local supermarket. It is simply a statement of fact. That is what I see. You are making value judgements about it.
“Buddha’s message in short is: Be a light unto yourself. And mine? Be a joke unto yourself!” –Osho, The Book of Wisdom, ch. 28
Mmmm, sounds fairly plausible…
But hang on – “Arpana wisely advised me not to reveal any personal details (thank you, Arpana!)” – the guy still refuses to answer basic questions about himself. And goes on to claim: “It was the correct decision. Fear has nothing to do with it. We are just engaging in leela here, that’s all.”
What a transparent, unconscious joke – of course it’s fear! As they say in the British army, “Go tell that to the Marines!”
Come on, ‘Kabir1440′, time to come clean…
Admit you’re in fact Brian-the-Clone, alias Swami Rajneesh!
It is a known fact Arpana did not say the following:
But hang on – “Arpana wisely advised me not to reveal any personal details (thank you, Arpana!).”
This fact is verifiable as well:
Arpana merely quipped, “Uh Oh. Satyadeva is circling his prey.”
Quite right.
The warning of impending death was sufficient. Circling of prey is followed by becoming lunch. The decision to maintain anonymity and stay alive was entirely mine. I remain eternally grateful to you, Arpana.
You appear too foolish to see that this absurd “anonymity” is causing you as much or more hassle than if you’d simply told us what you’ve done (or not done) for a living all these years!
Can not you understand that you’ve undermined all your preciously-held (the word ‘boasts’ comes to mind), much-vaunted ‘laziness’ by refusing to clarify this issue?
Good man, Arpana.
Funny how people in a corner like to bend the truth to suit themselves…
Must be a case of too much leela, I suppose – it can make you blind, y’know….
“Come on, ‘Kabir1440′, time to come clean… Admit you’re in fact Brian-the-Clone, alias Swami Rajneesh!” – Satyadeva
Beloved Satyadeva, thank you for this humour! Now we are getting somewhere…though I admit nothing.
I am neither Indian nor Western. I am neither man nor woman. I am neither old nor young. I am neither Brian-the-Clone nor Swami Rajneesh. I am nothing. I know nothing. Do you think SN is some kind of a 70′s style ashram encounter group?
I have absolutely no obligation to “come clean” …I can hide. I can dance. I can celebrate. I can enjoy your obsession with a ghost.
Now you really are bullshitting! Par excellence:
“I am neither Indian nor Western. I am neither man nor woman. I am neither old nor young. I am neither Brian-the-Clone nor Swami Rajneesh. I am nothing. I know nothing.”
A priceless piece of sophistry indeed, Brian-the-Clone! Trust you to avoid the issue by churning out such pretentiously specious bullshine.
“A priceless piece of sophistry indeed…” –Satyadeva
Thank you, but sophistry is dead. How long have you been locked into an Aristotelian system of logic that maintains something much be either A or not-A?
By the way, I repeat my question to you: who are you, beloved Satyadeva? I have asked you before, but it appears you are hiding. Why don’t you answer? What do you fear? Don’t you see the hole you are digging with your silence?
What is your criteria for determining bullshine? How old are you? What is your nationality? What is your religion? Where did you study? What is your address, in case I want to send you money in your currency?
Sorry to badger you with these questions, but if you can dish it out you can take it. I want the answers. I am full of desire for the answers. My ego needs the answers. You claim such high spirituality that you can judge me, but you don’t answer my questions. Don’t hide, Satyadeva. Come clean.
C’mon on, SD! He/she/it ain’t Brian the Clone, izzit? More like Miss Julie ( aka Julie Andrews of ‘The Sound of Spiritual Bullshit’ fame). She’s also known for her ‘Cover Artiste’ performance of ‘Happy Talk’ (Rodgers & Hammerstein). Remember how it goes…
“Happy talk, keep talking happy talk…you’ve got to have a dream….”
A rather common little spiritual ‘above-it-all’ trip, designed at keeping one from having to deal with the awful spectacle of one’s own dirty knickers!
Hope that has cleared things up for you.
You seem to have been active here only in the last few days, SD. You may have missed some earlier entries.
Kabir1440 claimed at one point to have been around Osho before he was known as Bhagwan, so he may be ancient! Or someone who likes to embellish!
I have thought sometimes by his posts, especially when he mentions OshoNews, that he is a ‘plant’ from some ‘faction’ or other. He is definitely a supporter of the conventional.
Or even someone known here in the past by another name, but who has now created a second identity.
Satyadeva has an interesting temperament. He is willing to lock horns even with the ghosts.
Sometimes wisdom creates longing for dialogue, dialogue with anyone, even with shadows, if they can computer type.
A group member said: Nothing very fantastic happened, but a lot of awareness came to me. I got in touch with a lot of pain and grief.
(Of the Enlightenment Intensive Group.)
That is more valuable than any fantastic thing.
Never long for the fantastic. Long for the real. The fantastic is not going to give you nourishment. It comes like lightning and it goes. A small candle is better. You can do many things with a small candle. Lightning is fantastic but you cannot do anything – you cannot read, you cannot move. Fantastic experiences are like lightning in the sky – beautiful, but not of any real value. Light a small candle. That will go for long and will do much for you.
The path is walked not by fantastic experiences but by real, small, atomic experiences. They go on accumulating and they give you a reality. It has been tremendously good. What I call fantastic is this – a small candle. If you go and sell it you will not get much, and nobody is going to write a poem about it, and if you brag about it people will think that you are mad – because it is so small. But it is useful. Its utility is tremendous. It will nourish you.
So just go on creating it again and again inside you. Struggle always pays. Friction always pays. It makes you more alert. It gives you a sharpness, and one starts feeling more alive, more solid.
So whatsoever has happened to you, go on reliving it again and again so it becomes almost a style of life. Because it is not fantastic, it can be done very easily. Don’t allow it to become just a memory.
Make it an everyday occurrence.
Just before going to sleep, for ten minutes sit silently and recapture the whole of it. Hold it inside and go to sleep. In the morning before you open your eyes, again recapture it. Hold it in the stomach.
In the day also, whenever you remember that you are losing contact with it, sit silently for a few seconds and recapture it. But don’t lose sight of it and it will grow. One day it will become a light.
Osho.
The Cypress in the Courtyard .
Chapter. 21.
Great quote, Arpana.
Shantam really needs to recognize this,
but the passage was a very affirming
reminder to me as well
However, Shantam, this particular “ghost” appears to have had his, er, spiritual ‘ectoplasm’ somewhat ruffled , judging from his latest post (timed at last night)!
He’ll be hearing from my lawyers later, of course….
“Can not you understand that you’ve undermined all your preciously-held (the word ‘boasts’ comes to mind), much-vaunted ‘laziness’ by refusing to clarify this issue?” — Satyadeva
I am a simple being, Beloved Satyadeva. So simple there is nothing to undermine. My “boasts” about being lazy are just the truth. I cannot help it if Osho claimed to be lazy also. It is not like I am in a contest and try to be like Osho to score points. That is your interpretation, your knee-jerk reaction, your persistent obsession… with simple words I wrote describing myself as lazy, just like Osho. I am not going to deny the truth just because you think it is “spiritual boasting.” Such riches Osho has given me… you cannot imagine… and free of charge, showering his love.
Who are you, anyway, to judge where others are at in their sannyas journey, beloved buddha?
“It is the simplest art in the world, to be silent. It is not a doing, it is a non-doing. How can it be difficult? I am showing you the way of enlightenment through laziness. Nothing has to be done to attain it, because it is your nature. You have already got it. You are just so busy with outer business that you cannot
see your own nature.”
–Osho, From the False to the Truth, ch. 3
“I have never done anything in my life. Even my shoes…Vivek puts them on my feet. You can’t conceive of a more lazy man than me. You must be thinking, why do I cross one leg over the other and never change it? It is sheer laziness, it is not some yoga posture.”
–Osho, From the False to the Truth, ch. 13
“Who are you, anyway, to judge where others are at in their sannyas journey, beloved buddha?”
I’m responding to the evidence you yourself have provided here at SN, no more, no less.
If you feel misjudged or misunderstood then I suggest you use whatever intelligence you have to look at our ‘conversation’ and try to understand just why and how I have reached certain conclusions about you.
In other words, take responsibility for your part in the er – what pretentious term did you use? – oh, yes, ‘leela’, wasn’t it?!
What a nice and elegant way in very good manners (I feel pretty ‘English’) to propose, Parmartha, that – that which Shantam Prem yesterday classified as a seemingly never ending ‘ghost´s horns entanglings’ – or something similar to that.
I rarely agree with Shantam, but could go with that.
However, even though I DO remember how Kabir 1440 introduced himself, there´s something in the fight and frustration Satyadeva has been (losing?) himself into that I could well relate to.
Reminding me of quite uncomfortable (hopefully) past stuff I myself have been into – and in b o t h positions:
Avoiding contact and respect to questions by ´hiding´ behind the screen painted with ‘words of the Master’, sometimes then encountering the fury of people who didn’t want to be ‘pontificated’ to.
AND ALSO :
Being in the other role, to be silenced by fellow-travellers, same way I feel Kabir1440 prefers to do it.
I already pondered about it, what kind of contribution I could let come through, but nothing came up (until now).
I somehow deny to ponder about fantasies, who is exactly who, just because a virtual caravanserai is such a special learning or unlearning field in terms of ´meeting´the so-called ‘other’ and clearing simply quite often not possible.
So, again, as this website is dedicated to a trail of Meditation we especially call Sannyas and again specially Sannyas around the former , present and maybe future fellow travellers around the Mystic Osho – which -up to today this very moment is alive, contradictory and very, very multiplex – ( especially in an internet forum).
I would to thank the two seeming opponents and I would lime to post a thank you to you, Parmartha, too.
And may be , there is now the space to close a little chapter – sure — for the time being… till it pops up again.
Sincerely yours,
Madhu
Thank you, Arpana.
Being sleepless in Munich so often – like tonight -that was a beautiful surprise and I looked for my old dusty Sheldon Kopp book
with the title : “Hanging upside down, I see all things different” (the hanged man in on the front page) – inspired to read the chapter IX.
I don´t do Yoga Asanas – but that will be a kind of asana too.
Have a beautiful day.
Madhu
Living masters create spiritual universities.
After their death, work gets transformed to primary school and ‘Correspondence Course for Higher Studies.’
Shantam.
Tragic isn’t it? What a millstone round the neck of a great master character like you are.
Sajjad, Kabir 1440, and others seem to me, having now read this string, to be what in other contexts are called mild anti-democrats.
Basically, though they choose to comment, part of them would prefer to have Osho sites that brook no criticism and are self- sustaining in their autocracy.
I hear the English House of Commons frequently criticised, for example during PM questions, the chamber is too “loud”, the select committees too combative, and things sometimes look as if they are in chaos. Give me that any time.
Of course, the quality of some interlocutors at SN is below standard, but there are often gems, and they are gems that would not find the light of common day but for sites such as SN.
“Sajjad, Kabir 1440, and others seem to me, having now read this string, to be what in other contexts are called mild anti-democrats.
Basically, though they choose to comment, part of them would prefer to have Osho sites that brook no criticism and are self- sustaining in their autocracy.”
That’s also what I was getting at by citing Indian elitist backgrounds where it would seem that ‘privileged’ individuals tend to escape the sort of critical probing, the sceptical atmosphere that forms an integral part of most westerners’ formative and later experience.
That may perhaps be changing nowadays, but I’d say such general effects are apparent in various contributions here at SN, including those of the two you mention, Parmartha.
It’s as if at some level they’re saying, “Hey, how dare you criticise me, I’m above such matters, I’m ‘special’ (etc.)”, which, most ironically, is magnified when discussing ‘spiritual’ matters, where this basic ‘don’t touch me’ personal attitude (very recently exemplified par excellence by Kabir1440, for example) becomes a generally authoritarian approach towards wider issues, eg concerning ‘the movement’.
Again, I tend to think it’s a shame such people have never experienced groups, because therein, as well as in purely personal terms, they’d get a genuine, possibly life-changing ‘democratic’ experience.
I repent, I repent, having you mentioned at all , Shantam Prem, seeing your stupidity on the go like this:
“After their death, work gets transformed to primary school and ‘Correspondence Course for Higher Studies.”
You seem to embody a multiple personality and one of these is very aggressive too -
and out of question is seemingly that you embody also a co-operative one (of the multi…)
Thats ODD!
Madhu
“After their death, work gets transformed to primary school and ‘Correspondence Course for Higher Studies.”
Without this, woman like you would not have lived the life of hermit, out of compulsion.
Tell me Madhu, when was the last time you have done meditation in white robe in Munich?
If it was never, don´t play the bush.
Seeker of truth has the obligation to see reality as it is.
Living in denial simply kills, it does not give the possibility of healing.
What to say about spiritual movements, even Iphone 6 gets bended in the pockets!
I want to thank Ashok, Lokesh, Madhu, Satyadeva, Parmartha, Shantam, AlokJohn, Anthony Thompson and Arpana for your comments. They are much appreciated.
You’re still being circled, ya know!!!!
His Holiness, El Chudo, declares, “Living in denial simply kills.”
Which, of course, could not possibly be true. If it were, King Chump would need a medium to communicate his comments for SN. Is Chudo actually alive or communicating via a medium? This is a question I often ask myself in a form of self-enquiry taught to me by by Gandhooji.
It is a bit of a koan, but the master guarantees enlightenment can be achieved if the disciple is earnest in his/her enquiry.
YOU better shut up, Shantam Prem !
Say after me:
‘“Wow. I respect a well-grilled hot dog more than I respect Shantam.”
Madhu, when was the last time you have meditated with more than just one person, what to say about that old quotation of Osho, whose words were similar to, ” My presence will be felt when more than five sannyasins will be meditating together.”
Not just Madhu, I want to ask same question to each one of you on this site and readers too. Let me tell you when it was for me:
Three days ago, I was in an evening mass in the Church on the way to fitness studio.
There were around 10 people. Atmosphere was so sublime, I closed my eyes and could feel the wetness of tears.
Congregation started singing. I did not understand what. But I stood with them. A young woman brings her book to me and whispers, “It is in Polish.”
Softly I said, “It does not matter.”
During the mass I was keeping the eyes closed and if I felt, “People are standing now, I will open them and stand.”
The young woman was three benches before me. Her long blond hair, her aura of devotion and she was wearing white jeans.
In my heart I said thank you to all of them and the Christian tradition of binding people together, and to Osho.
It is from His presence I have learnt to appreciate the beauty of white, even it is just a jeans!
Shameless Parrot
So beautiful.
Another parrot squawk.
El Chudo: “…that old quotation of Osho, whose words were similar to, ‘My presence will be felt when more than five sannyasins will be meditating together.’ ”
Perhaps it might have been a good idea for his holiness to read The Bible whilst in the church, for had he done so he might have discovered that Osho took the idea from Jesus Christ. Much of what Osho said was not original but lifted from other sources. What was original was how Osho took such ideas and created something apparently fresh and, of course, his method of delivery.
So, Shantam goes to church and has an epiphany whilst sitting behind some long-haired chick and ogling her white ass.
Why am I not surprised?
I am really surprised that you are not surprised.
This is what you were doing your whole life in Osho Ashram before getting admitted to old people´s home supported by NHS.
I must say, women radiate sublime beauty when in meditation and devotion. Osho has given the chance to appreciate this without feeling guilty.
I have noticed it is not the first time, last post of the strings remains unanswered, not attacked for many hours to come. Most of the time it is my post.
Call me egoist but I raise the uneasy questions because I wish property in the name of Osho must give the call to the disciples, “Come, come, yet come again.”
Meditation together is one of the purest form of energy sharing.
Shantambhai,
You are not an egoist!
Shantambhai,you are not an egoist!
You are a very wise man that no one can answer because what you have to say is clearly the embodiment of truth!
Do not be disturbed by the fate of Scotland.
Due to your neo-braveheart efforts, victory is assured – in the end, regime change will come in Pune and you will find yourself in the pantheon of egoless heroes of spiritual consciousness who have been catalysts of Osho’s vision..
Yahoo!
I reckon as far as Braveheart Chudo goes it is the baring of thon bums ceremony that appeals to his heroic heart.
Dear Arpana,
A parrot is a parrot, is a parrot.
That is a good reminder of a fabulous graphic designer´s tribute to some of the stuff happening, and thank you for this!
(For me, it worked better than the ´hot dog proposal´ as I always have been quite a rebellious pupil also in school times…).
One of the nights over; looking into the autumn sky.
Wish us all, including me, to be well, let’s take care of the daytime given, and let the day take care of us -
Love,
Madhu
Osho is in us all
Osho is beyond (us)
We are in Osho
We ignore the Osho in us
Osho looks and takes a sip of water
The Swan flies on