The Ideal Man (or Woman) is a Myth!

Someone sent SN this. Apparently from someone called Gitama.  We thought it had a ring of truth to it.

Beloved Tantrica,
A few weeks ago, on my way back to France, sitting in Moscow’s airport, I let my eyes glance on a screen where a gorgeous man was exposing his attractive body and smile in a little movie that seemed to be an ad. for I don’t know what. Mostly, I never give too much attention to all these TV screens in public places encouraging us to consume more and more stupid, unnecessary things, but what to do, this time I got caught by a beautiful man, and after all there is nothing wrong enjoying a beautiful man. So for a shot moment, I indulged looking at him but about 30 second later he vanished in a soap bubble to be replace by this sentence: The ideal man is a myth!

It totally shocked me! What came after was actually an add for a perfume, but I didn’t even notice it. I just stayed stuck on this sentence: The ideal man is a myth!

The add was like a master hitting on my head. I saw how much I still have a picture of the perfect man and perfect woman and how it hinders me to go deeper in love.

Because of the fantasy of what an ideal man or woman is, we limit our capacity to love. Nobody can match our secret picture of the man, of the woman we think fits with us!

How can we love deeply if the man, the woman we are with does not fit in our ideal?

Few possibilities amount to many: the first one which is the most common one, we are going to try to change the man or the woman we are with to make him, her fit into our picture. By the way, it never works, in case you didn’t notice it yet!

Second, we are going to cultivate a dream of the prince and princess charming while being with the man, the woman we are so-called in love with. This dream state doesn’t allow us to meet, to merge fully with the man, the woman we are engage with. It always creates a kind of screen in between, building up frustration and thus supporting us to dream even more! By the way, the prince and the princess charming do not exist! Sorry for waking you up from your sweet dream!!

Third, we are going to try many men and women, like trying new fruits. At first the fruit seems very juicy, in one word perfect, but pretty soon there is a bitter taste. Than we throw the fruit. If we are nice, we find more clever ways of getting rid of the rotten fruit! By the way, how can you know if a fruit is good if you didn’t have time to digest it? It is not by having only a taste of it that we can judge on its benefits. It takes time before the fruit goes deep into us, into our blood, into our bones, into our soul!

Of course there are more possibilities. We are creative people, aren’t we? We can find so many strategies to avoid going deeper into love…

Another thing in creating this picture, we put ourselves at the same height of this picture and this too is impossible because we are not the perfect ideal man and woman ourselves. Knowing we are not perfect, it is of high pretension to dream of a perfect man and woman who will match our imperfection! It is really a joke!! Nobody is perfect or ideal simply because we are all unique! Uniqueness is the key in this whole story! Uniqueness is perfect and is sacred too! Think about it next time you meet a man, a woman who does not match your ideal. This man, this woman is unique! There is not a single person like her, like him! This man, this woman is a piece of art from existence. It should wake up in us deep awe, a sense of mystery, humbleness, respect, and worship…

And one more point on this topic: while projecting our picture of ideal man and woman, we can’t look deeply into the inner man, woman within us. The picture becomes a hindrance for meeting, for melting our counterpart. The process of Tantra is to burn all our pictures of what a man, a woman should be in order to meet the essence within us.  Our essence of love, of light, of consciousness, which goes beyond our preferences, our fantasies, our identities…


This entry was posted in Discussion. Bookmark the permalink.

20 Responses to The Ideal Man (or Woman) is a Myth!

  1. Shantam Prem says:

    Once people get the impression something is not normal in their projections and thoughts and their relationships, they are pulled towards the events which promise them to dry clean.

    If men and women in the West have no children, then they have enough time and money for inner man, inner woman kind of 20th century stuff.

    Life is more complex than the simplistic solutions of Aura Soma bottles.
    In my observation, only positive effect of any kind of groups is the creation of tribal feeling for few days.

    The way life has become in the age of Aquarius, human beings are living in their capsules and reaching others through virtual expressions – Just like this post!

  2. lokesh says:

    The whole subject is more concisely encapsulated in the following joke:
    Joe Bloggs is leaving town.
    “Where you going?”, his best friend, Andy Capp, asks.
    “I’m off to search for the perfect woman”, replies Joe.
    50 years pass, by which time Joe is old, grey and toothless. He returns to his home town and runs into Andy.
    “Well”, says Andy, “did you find the perfect woman?”
    “Yes”, answers Joe.
    Andy looks around and then says, “Where is she?”
    Joe gives a sardonic smile and answers, “She isn’t here. She’s still searching for the perfect man.”

  3. avinashi says:

    Sometimes a tantric partner is tremendously compatible only physically or tantrically and otherwise she/he is not at all compatible to live with or even to talk to and vice-versa, Gitama. What do you say?

  4. Kabir1440 says:

    To identify as woman or man is to be identified with the superficial, with sex organs, with biology, with the body.

    In Buddha Hall, in a let-go with the Master before Nivedano’s drumbeat, I heard something like this: “You are not the body. You are not the mind. This is the Zen Manifesto: freedom from oneself. You are no more, only Existence is, Life is, awareness is.”

    Ah, this!

    • lokesh says:

      Kabir, sounds just dandy, but one wee rejection, slur on your character, someone steps on your ego, skips a queue in front of you, cuts you off in traffic, says you’re full of shit, tells you to go fuck yourself and it all goes out the window.

      Adopting Osho’s words is easy, bringing it into reality is way more difficult. Everyone wants the crown, but climbing the mountain takes time, effort and earnestness.

      • anand yogi says:

        Perfectly correct, Kabir.
        To be identified with the sex-organs is simply superficial!
        Before meeting Osho, I had journeyed far in the Himalayas and had met yogis who had reached this realisation and they taught me to beat the offending organs into submission with a holy stick so that my Atman could take its rightful place, stripped of all superficiality!

        When I came to Osho, through his grace I realised that all this was unneccesary as I followed Osho’s guidelines and found plenty of Mas to beat my holy stick for me!

        But the truth remains that, unlike yourself, who have clearly rid yourself entirely of the superficial and live in the depth of meditation, thus giving you the right to proclaim on such matters, most sannyasins are simply abusing Osho’s freedom in order to reach maximum titillation levels for their genital and sense organs!

        Many ex-sannyasins, like Lokesh, have also completely missed, and instead of following Osho’s road to enlightenment have become stuck in a traffic jam, fighting and road-raging with other drivers on the highway to Hell!
        Instead of looking where the finger is pointing, they are mooning and giving the finger to fellow-travellers!

        And Avinashi is perfectly right!
        Some partners he had he connected to physically and tantrically, but when he saw their faces in the morning he realised, as he says, that “they were not at all compatible to live with or even talk to”.
        I understand his plight and as a compassionate seeker myself, I can say with the utmost sincerity:
        Don`t worry bro’, we have all been there!

        Hari Om!

        Hari Om!

    • avinashi says:

      Oh, shit.

    • satyadeva says:

      Kabir, you conjure a rather compelling vision:

      Of someone who desperately wants to ‘run’ – and who’s read and heard all about how wonderful it is…

      But who can barely bring himself to walk yet…

      (But I might have got you wrong, of course).

    • Ashok says:

      Kabir 1440, I’m sorry to say, sounds like somebody who is possibly deeply ashamed of his/her body and its natural biological functions. The choice of words used here would seem to indicate an attempt to distance oneself from one’s sexuality. He/she is possibly hiding or running away from something.

      At worst, he/she could be another example of a ‘high-flying Holy Shoiter’ (please take note, Madhu) that likes to indulge in lofty sounding, ‘airy-fairy’ spiritual language that rewards its user with an identity and feelings of superiority, ie a classical ego-trip cum mind-fuck.

      Please enjoy it, Kabir 1440, if that what makes you happy, but I, for one, will not buy into it.

      My serious and compassionate advice to you is: “GET DOWN ON IT! GET DOWN ON IT” (Kool & The Gang).

      • Kabir1440 says:

        “Please enjoy it, Kabir 1440, if that what makes you happy” – Ashok

        Beloved Ashok, thank you for your blessing!

        Nothing makes me happy. Happiness is my nature. No struggle or drudging up a mountain required; just the sudden realisation that the goose is out (and was never in).

        I have enjoyed it all: sex, traffic jams, good food, visits to the dentist, friendships, waiting in bureaucratic long lines, the beauty of nature, hilarious comments from SN strangers, music, the beautiful buddhas who shop in my local supermarket, a beautiful master with whom to dance, the beginnings, the endings, the ups, the downs, hot showers, cold showers, having money, not having money, etc.

        It is all to be enjoyed!

        • satyadeva says:

          “the beautiful buddhas who shop in my local supermarket”

          Really? Where do you live, Kabir1440 – Shangri-La?!

          I suggest you come to my part of London and play ‘spot a buddha’ in Sainsbury’s or Tesco’s…Now that would be enjoyable – for the onlookers!

        • Ashok says:

          Beloved (ugh) Kabir!

          Many thanks for providing your own S&M version of the popular hit ‘These Are a Few of My Favourite Things’ from the film, ‘The Sound of Music’. Quite clearly you have ‘climbed every mountain’ and ‘forded every stream’, till you found your own special dream!

          Please feel free to contact me any time for further blessings.

          Yours truly,


  5. frank says:

    It`s just not true, this perfect man/woman thing.
    As a matter of fact, I actually met an Australian guy once who told me that he HAD found a perfect woman.
    She was three feet tall, had no teeth and a flat head to rest his pint pot on.

    Sorry, Madhu!
    Altho’, come to think of it, he might have been Bavarian.

    • Shantam Prem says:

      It was you, Frank, it was you.
      Because of too much meditation and old age, you have lost memory.
      The way you cannot remember, string is written by some Gitama and Madhu is nowhere in the sight.
      Ask your nurse to reduce the dose of valium!

  6. prem martyn says:

    Could we just keep on topic here? This post is clearly about the Ranch, Sheela, therapy and the management team needing to be replaced by Shantam…
    Oh, and some hurt feelings somewhere or other…

    So please, guys, if you must insult Osho’s vision, the truth of which is worth millions of Swiss francs currently invested in Direct -Line Meditational Insurance claims, please could you take your sordid filth and misogynistic comments to the London Mini-Cab Drivers’ Sauna and Baths, Bavaria House, Trannyban Lane, Southend.

  7. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    Friends, I have heard Him – Osho – say:

    Watch out whom you choose for your best friend, it will also be your best enemy (that´s tantric prose so to say).
    And oscillation in my case (and casualty) as Parmartha likes to put it – in between Kabir 1440 (where I am home, soul-wisdom-wise) and the down-to-earth (cynical but realistic) Lokesh – and sure enough, the one is truly not really different from the other contribution; but it DOES need a Mystery School and the possibility to get by practising a flavour and more than a flavour into your bones and marrow…

    There is no need to get into struggle with an upper layer of an invisible ladder, from the mud to something beyond the (fertile) mud for a lotus to grow. But the flatliners way will not do these days like the so-called internetting dealing with such matters-no-matters and the catharting way to be fixed on patterns of ever similar crap.

    And no, Prem Martyn, the thread is not about Sheela, the Ranch and stuff like that, the thread is about you and me and all the others who appear here and even if some alogorhythm is ‘posting’.

    Me – I am real, sitting here at my computer, trying the best to wait for words to reach the LIVING as best as I can.

    And from the heart and incisive I would like to recommend to ALL of you a contribution from Ian M Nay on Concious TV with a Mr Burgs which I saw twice in the last weeks and which is dealing with:
    ‘The Impact Of WiFi On Our Energy Field’.
    And that is also fitting for the thread’s issue, if you believe it or not.

    I have been wondering if Gitama is THIS Gitama, whom I came to in TAO centre in Munich here ages ago. That Gitama was a trained Humaniverity therapist and we had a little fight going on about ‘treats’.

    I am grateful for the thread’s issue. And wherever you taste the ocean it is salty. And sometimes there are ‘de plus’ quite pepperonici ingredient is it – or plastic.

    With sincerely regards to everybody, if they are bodies…
    and a kiss from my heart to Kabir -


    • Ashok says:

      I could be wrong, but I have feeling that the Gitama who unknowingly provided the subject thread here is the other and more prominent half of the Hari Prem & Gitama partnership (now over), who gave many tantric workshops for many years.