Living in an agricultural society, Jesus and his hearers were well acquainted with the yoke. But it is less well known to later ages that yokes for humans were also widely used at that time, and still are in some agricultural communities. These were simple beams or poles carried across the shoulders with a load attached to each end. With them, farmers are able to carry quite heavy loads.
So it was a more telling metaphor at the time when Jesus invited those who were genuine seekers that he would take the yoke upon himself when they became his disciple.
The invitation to discipleship was always there with Osho. And there was a feeling that in such a surrender a sort of protection arose, a deburdening from the ordinary cares of life. And so it often proved. One wonders if that is how discipleship was/is commonly experienced ?
Sadly though the phrasing and intent of such discipleship was, one is sure, genuine on the part of Jesus and Osho, one also wonders whether it led to an over dependency on the Master and the communes of which they were the centre? Does discipleship have always to be phrased up with such powerful metaphors, when maybe something more playful and lighter was intended..
Parmartha
Jesus and Osho…
There was always a glow around Osho whenever He felt, if 10, 12 initial disciples of Jesus, the uneducated ones could create a worldwide phenomenon, His own educated disciples in thousands could do the bigger wonder.
Maybe it was not written in the books he was reading, “Educated disciples are more like students, consumers, concert-goers. Once curtain falls, everybody goes home, few by company cars, mostly by public transport.”
Shanty Pantz shows his petulant side. Again.
I never took ecstasy, but sannyas celebrations in Pune must have been like that, if they scanned your brain. I just loved them.
This journalist asked Osho, “Why are you selling bliss?” It was free.
“I never took ecstasy, but sannyas celebrations in Pune must have been like that, if they scanned your brain. I just loved them.”
This is so true, thousands of people can vouch for this.
It was purely an Osho creation, his signature style. This celebratory atmosphere was much more than one can get in disco or party anywhere, including that Tits paradise called Ibiza.
The tragedy – and I won´t shy away from pointing it out – that smarter than Master mind of alpha males started taking the feathers away, with the idea if bird won´t fly, we will roast it.
Thus ended Sannyas as the two birds flying in the open sky.
God bless Shri Osho Ji for doing all that an awakened being can do in its best.
He didn’t even know you existed, and you’ve been flouncing around, babbling petulant drivel ever since.
Shantam, what was so special about that one celebration? I am curious.
Arpana,
You were born with low IQ or became one after reading spiritual literature?
Learn to provoke thoughts rather than throwing stones.
Petulant. Passive aggressive.
He didn’t even know you existed.
LMAO.
During the early days it was no doubt possible to have a master/disciple with Osho. That is, in the sense one could receive specific guidelines directly from Osho as to what would be the best course of action or meditation to take in order to move on down the long and winding road. By the late seventies such possibilities only existed for the few who lived close to Osho. For the rest it was the mainstream treatment as Osho’s popularity grew. The personal relationship was gone. Of course, for some that personal relationship still exists, although I find it questionable.
From the more sincere seekers I know and am aquainted with, the ones who spent time in close proximity to a master did, without question, fare best in terms of inner development. The others I know who have a long distance relationship with some holy guy or woman are a mixed bag.
I’d say the defining line is the depth of the seeker’s earnestnes to learn unlearn. Imagination is the enemy here. Without an intimate relationship with a master one’s imagination can run riot and produce all manner of fantasies. They might be cloaked in a mantle of spirituality but they are, when it all boils down, fantasies. When the master is not directly available to keep you on track anything is possible, for the ways of the mind are indeed as infinite as grains of sand on a beach.
If one is sincere in the quest for any kind of spiritual development honesty is a prerequisite. Without honesty to bolster one’s inner quest one is lost. There is plenty of evidence to support that here on SN.
Personal relations with Master…
And the end result?
Who can have more personal relation than Sheela, or Vivek, Jayesh or Amrito? List can stretch to 150 people or so…
Maybe Lokesh can add his name at the number 151!
El Chudo, there were a number of people who lived close to Osho who don’t make a big deal out of it…in other words, you have never heard of them and probably never will.
Besides, what differance does it make to your life?
I did not live close to Osho, so no need to add me to your hypothetical list.
Sri Lokesh, do you know the difference between consumers and shareholders?
What is true for organised business is also true for organised religion.
I know there are people who will jump on me with the thought, ‘Osho did not teach religion, he was for religiousness!’
I know you are not one such bookish wise.
Dear Fresch,
It’s a pleasure to respond to your contribution here to the ´new-old´ thread, and I am happy you are appearing again, finding the time to do it in the midst of your ongoing everyday business.
Yes, so true, ecstasy without any drugs has been happening, and also what are called antagonists (inside-outside) came on stage, so to say.
No, no result of a brain ‘scanning’ like in the movie ‘HER’…I want to point that out.
Yet, it is true, a well-known fact, that great joy, as well as great sorrow, alters our body-mind stages.
The MIRACLE (we all found many songs to sing and dance about) may be still waiting to be embraced fully in our hearts,
and that has something to do with the U-turn (not my invention).
With a U-turn, a processing, a meditative discipline is meant, where you broaden your vision INTO yourself in understanding of a happening of a surpreme synchronicity.
Listening to supreme music, for example, when an audience knows how to be silent and when the musicians, as well as the composer (if there was any), are plugged in, into what we call GRACE, to understand that silence is, can be, not only a passive kind of dead end.
So – if there happens a NAMASTE – after the happening – as a hello- as well as a goodbye – it’s acknowledging that
and
there may be the possibility for an understanding of how a togetherness can lead to what we can then call a ‘peak experience’ in our life.
Also in the way that you experience being DIGNIFIED in your human existence as if you – for the first time – could more than imagine to catch hold of ‘why and what for’ you are HERE_NOW.
And at that point comes what I would call disciplehood into a necessity, to live it, instead of bragging about:
- to practise or to develop a kind of skill, to face that a peak experience has some natural ‘fall downs’ into the realms of valleys too
- and to practise, not to deny the valley, which may look quite dark sometimes
- to practise, as well as to develop skills, which prevent you becoming a junkie for peaks and obsessed with how to reach them.
The latter (the junkie approach), the whole drug and sex and wellness-industry are exploiting to the max.
In the movie ‘HER’, the male human protagonist became a junkie in the story – that´s how I saw it, by the way – and still…I loved the protagonist on stage, feeling him helpless, as also a very lovable man.
The word ‘disciple’ is an operational term as the word Master too.
At any time, there have been happening spiritual schools and also extraordinary BEINGS, in whose name they have gone into history.
We – as sannyasins and lovers of what we call “Osho” (and that is, one can see, very different – individually – so much so, that any moment fights can break out, as has been happening again and again, also here at this thread again!), we are not a ‘we’, like an clear-cut, definable crowd; have never been.
‘We’ are a happening too – ever-changing – individually giving what we have to give, or are imagining to give,
giving while taking, taking while giving.
Same, same I sometimes murmur here, and I don´t mean a cheap flat-liner.
One of the big challenges of this special decades-time, I feel, is to digest, without harming ourselves as well as not harming others,
some breath-taking progress in technical virtual communications techniques, which may create delusions of ‘togetherness’ to an extent that we may not be capable (any more) to discover soberly as delusions.
From the many invitations to join a living tribe my gratefulness for the phenomenon Osho,
I would like to leave on the caravanserai tea table the word ‘dignity’, a quality you can neither sell nor buy – if you feel it, you know it, but you cannot give proof of such a gift, if you get more than an intellectual glimpse of that.
Madhu
Dear Sannyas News managers,
A male, bald-headed, neatly barbered fraud you posted a contribution of this morning.
Why? And what for?
And even if this man’s ‘question and answer’ invitations are ‘for free’,
just looking a little bit at that was in another way too costly, at least for me.
If this man had been to the Ranch at all, it was maybe as a secret service man of the American secret services on duty?
And thank you anyway for this kind of
wake-up trigger.
Madhu
I find your comment strange, Madhu, in fact bordering on the paranoid.
Here’s a man – forget the ‘monk’ part of his identity – who is very happy to talk extremely positively of his rather lengthy time at the Ranch and all you can say is he’s a “fraud”!
Are you yourself in the American Secret Service, by any chance?!!
Your response to this question will give you an idea of the absurdity of your own remarks here.
No, Satyadeva,
I am not, have never been – to answer your question.
And there is no need to dump aggressively something (psycho-technically, labelling-wise) on me.
I just gave an honest report of what I was seeing and also of what I listened to, when opening that you-tube channel.
Madhu
“And there is no need to dump aggressively something (psycho-technically, labelling-wise) on me.”
Some might say that’s precisely what you were doing to the man on the video, by calling him a “fraud”.
As I said, I find your response very strange, as I do Shantam’s.
What exactly is your problem with this guy?
(And are you absolutely certain you were never an American agent?!!).
Satyadeva,
“Fraud” is for me an expression which is more coming from what we call a sixth sense,
not any leftover from psycho-diagnostic linguistic stuff -
it’s more connected with feelings on my side, which do not come from the mind, more like an instinct.
I get allergic when I feel manipulated by a setting on life´s stages – or by words.
When in the midst of the nineties, I made a last try to get linked to my former profession for work again,
I attended trauma-psychotherapeutic seminars, and I met then and there, an American teacher, teaching to face traumata-issues, and ( maybe) possibilities to resolve them, and to work on PTSS specifically.
In the third seminar, he shared that he (like others) had visited the Oregon Ranch, to see how it was going – so he was one of these guests in the commune there, to come for a shorter check – and when he was talking about that it was very contemptuous talk, also about us – the sannyasins – in a very Californian style type of scene.
– like a talk show master -
(the man on youtube reminded me of this – his voice and the setting too).
So this was it – with the seminars -
then – for me.
Another brief visitor to the Oregon Ranch was at least one of the American or Australian satsang- givers, who had been never heart-connected with Osho´s commune, but has a lot of former Osho sannyasins now in his tribe.
One of the – maybe many – who, after having attended the satasangs of Punjaji, started his own satsatsang-tribe in the nineties.
To be a visitor – and above that, a visitor with a prejudiced mind (even when skilfully covering up the latter) is not at all the same, like giving yourself into it, with all failures, trials and errors, pains and joys and wounds and scars and all that.
When I am reading Paritosh´s book – I feel at home, so to say, even when I know I didn´t and don´t share all his experiences – it is for me like an echo-lot and I am glad to have that here.
I love the expression ‘walkabout’ – in former times, one may have said, same wavelengths.
In silence that deserves the word silence,
I am everywhere home.
In sharing words and exchanging words, that sometimes happens
and very often also – not.
The Osho sannyas tribe has for me something very special
in celebratory attitude towards silence as a possibility.
No wonder that many people and teachers – including even the family constellation guru, who has been loving that so many sannyasins came to attend his family constellation trainings and seminars.
So – a living heritage is there – changing and changing.
As I’ve said already, I don´t know if all the shocks of the one and other sannyas-related treats (MOD: treats?) throughout the longer sannyas-life and the life before are allowed to be resolved and can bring fruit.
Neither do I know about my hermit-kind-of-life,
if that is ‘just it’ – or not.
To live in this not-knowing
is the real fact of my life -and that doesn´t mean that I am not allergic any more.
Madhu
So anyone who visited the Oregon Ranch and wasn’t duly impressed is termed “a fraud”?
Surely, they deserve at least some credit for honesty, don’t they?!
But seriously, Madhu, how can you put this buddhist guy in a similar category, especially as he spent EIGHT MONTHS living there? And moreover, speaks so positively about Osho, the place and his general experience?
It seems that, although you speak of your “instinct” (as a sort of inbuilt fraud detector!) this has been ‘corrupted’, superceded by your allowing past vaguely similar events to influence your response to a different situation, a different sort of person. Unless you haven’t made yourself completely clear here.
Are you, perhaps, responding superficially, ie to how he looks, the ‘religious’ setting, the clothes etc., rather than seeing through all that to the simple fact of the man speaking of his experiences?
If so, then you’re pre-judging him and the situation, and so are yourself coming from a prejudiced, therefore unreliable place.
Perhaps ‘following your feelings’ isn’t always quite the infallible mantra it once once promoted to be….
I think there is something in it what Madhu is writing. Also, like Arps put it, Sheela being that wonderful (?).
He also looks very tense. Not like sannyasins. I would have a morning coffee with him, but not more than that.
Take away the ‘image’ and he’s just an ordinary guy, Fresch, doing his best like everyone else.
Probably not my cup of chai as a teacher either, but there again, he probably wouldn’t fancy you or me as ‘pupils’.
(Of course, you, as a female, might be referring to another ‘agenda’ – but I wouldn’t know about that one).
“Perhaps ‘following your feelings’ isn’t always quite the infallible mantra it was once promoted to be” -
Especially if one feels negative.
Yes – `treats`, moderators,
and by that I mean what could happen on the Ranch when you went into opposing and questioning stuff, which didn´t feel good at all.
And I am not capable just now, to open up that ‘closet’.
(MOD: SO treats IS IRONIC?)
I just want to say that I’ve met many sannyasins and sometimes have been really shocked by in what ways they have been able to most creatively re-invent their sannyas-life stories.
For example, those whom I came across at the time as utterly fundamentalist ‘rule-givers’
and later had the ductus: ahhh, they knew about the shit
(that they themselves had been in action thoroughly part of). (MOD: ductus – DO YOU MEAN nerve OR cheek? SOMETHING ELSE?)
That blows the mind, not the way of meditation terminology, but in another way.
And I am glad that I had before sannyas quite a good psychologist´s training, as also I was not a teenie any more.
Sure enough, I let you respond about my posts,
yet staying on my own feet in my life, that isn´t yours,
knowing that, especially in this virtual caravanserai, I might not have been meeting (or meet) anyone of you personally.
Madhu
No, moderators, no, not ironic.
Why do I think of “badly drawn boys” just now?
Madhu
No idea, Madhu – tell you what, I’ll include your question with Fresch’s (at the Sri Nabuji topic), ok? The Angels should be able to handle the two all right, it’s only Thursday after all…No guarantees though!
Re your second requests, moderators,
No, neither simply getting on my nerves, nor cheek.
An extreme and not quite fitting example was historically the old Nazis, when after the war was over, they – not to a small amount but a large one – proceeded back to their everyday life in their old professions, some teachers, police officers, jurists, the list is long.
When Eastern Germany fall apart, same was happening.
So, that kind of shock I meant, and if I had been able to write what I wrote and reach you, that kind of exaggeration I as well as you would now have been spared.
So bad as it sometimes seems to appear here to moderators,
my English is not that bad….
Madhu
MOD: THANK YOU, MADHU, FOR CLARIFYING THIS.
Sure enough, Satyadeva
– to hand it over, absolutely okay.
Just the plea, that you don´t hand it over to the Hell’s Angels, which I came to know from here;
they are just for the weekend starting cleaning their motorcycles,
and are up to anything.
Madhu
I’m sure they’re very nice people, Madhu. It’s just that they’ve probably all had rather difficult childhoods.
I strongly suggest not to avoid them, but rather deliberately walk near them when you’re outside, slowly, not fast as if to escape…Just be a little courageous, mmm?
But do one thing, mmm?
You know the ‘Gayatri Mantra’, mmm? Good. Just chant that – and aloud, not just ‘inside’, so that they will hear you and it – and watch…
Ok, Madhu, mmm?
Goooooodd.