This clip, annonymously posted on utube, is a very rare piece of footage of Osho behind Buddha Hall three days before he died.
One imagine it is the last piece of public footage available of Osho?
Cant imagines it will stay up long… …
What do the SN punters make of his hand movements, which are quite firm for someone who was supposed to be so frail, and also that last smile, still so powerful, and beyond words?
The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.
I notice that comments have been disabled for the clip as it appears on utube. Wonder why?!
I would say Osho’s hand movements in the first part of the clip relate to his indicating where the negative vibes were supposed to be coming from within the auditoruium? These were mentioned quite a lot just before he died.
Osho’s eyes and his smile in the last moments of the clip seem just as they ever were to me… the thought that this was just three days before his death seems disquieting to me.
Parmartha and friends,
When i looked at the video and saw his hands i thought of mudras..
Osho’s body moved like a very refined musical instrument…his whole being was in tune…music..
You may say i am dreaming but that’s what i saw in him, perfect composition of life’s symphony!
Osho words:
“Dhyana means meditation, and mudra means a gesture – a gesture of meditation. Meditation is a gesture of receptivity, a gesture of welcome, a gesture of let-go, a gesture of surrendering to reality.
It is the beginning of non-aggressiveness.”
His movements are very precise and gentle…
“Rhythm is life disguised in motion”
“Eternal harmony is the harmony of consciousness”
“There are two elements in rhythm, mobility and regularity.”
“The first element in rhythm – mobility -is gentle, productive, creative and progressive”
“By recognizing its rhythm the mystic understands from the character of every activity the cause and result of that particular activity”
Sufi Teachings of Hazrat Inayat Khan
Upnita,
Good post. Keep posting some good stuff like this.
Anand,
I felt warmed by your encouragement…thanks.
Parmartha,
I understand what you are saying about the practicality of Osho’s hands pointing in some direction and the simplicity or complexity of communication that has been speculated about in this post…my focus is on his aura/presence.
“You have free associated on the stimulus, as the psychologists say.”
“As always, I have a tendency towards convergent thinking as you know, but appreciate the divergent also.”
I wouldn’t call being able to “see” different or various dimensions ” a free association on the stimulus”……
Convergent thinking does belong to the mental level as Arpana’s video exemplifies.
Mental, physical and emotional levels are what most of world goes by…but since we are here connecting in a very mysterious way to one another and observing and connecting to a Spiritual Master…I tend to see his hands much more like when you love someone ……a feeling of Awe to the One that embodied a Life of Precious Love and Laughter…profound Surrender to Death…the Blessed One.
“If the eye of your heart is open
In each atom there will be
One hundred secrets”
Attar, “The Book of Secrets”
Lokesh,
“All of us are, in a way, incarnations of mudra.”
“We live in our own inner world and it is rare for one to meet another and know for certain that you both inhabit the same inner space.”
Yes, I can resonate with your comments. Mudras plus other states of being often have happened to me over the years.
As to the inner world, perhaps that’s what we are attempting to express in SN?
Inner world communion as a group of Osho or Truth Beloveds.
Vartan,
Love your contribution.
“On one level he was “a yogi”. He had control over his body.”
“On the second level he was also practising “experiencing” (people and events) for the “first time” as a way of being more in the now. ”
Thank you Vartan for bringing the Being to Here and Now!
Love to all….
Upnita says:
>> “We live in our own inner world and it is rare for one to meet another and know for certain that you both inhabit the same inner space.”
Wow! To which I could only add, that it was ‘his’ inner space that we were all drawn to… and…
Er, Vartan, she was quoting Lokesh there! (Credit where credit’s due and all that).
Upnita, Vartan and I briefly shared ideas re the use of the word “practising” in this context – perhaps you read our exchange? – and agreed that it wasn’t really appropriate as it implies the idea of working to perfect a skill or technique, whereas (from what I’ve understood) an ‘enlightened consciousness’ like that of Osho is always ‘new’, every moment, so will naturally and spontaneously respond to people, as if “for the first time”.
Btw, you add a beneficial presence to this forum – keep it coming!
Upnita, well written comment. Most inspiring.
Thanks Upnita.
You have free associated on the stimulus, as the psychologists say.
I like the quote from the Sufi guy.
Like Kavita, I always found it difficult to connect with the stuff about negative forces in Buddha Hall at the end of Osho’s life. This video does seem to support the fact that Osho was attempting to allude to something happening there, Anando’s book is due out this year, maybe it will throw more light on this.
The origin of this video clip, and why it has never appeared before is of interest to me.
As always, I have a tendency towards convergent thinking as you know, but appreciate the divergent also.
You might enjoy this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sf_2LlEQXhQ
Upnita says, ‘When i looked at the video and saw his hands i thought of mudras.’
That is hardly surpising as that is exactly what they are. Symbolic hand gestures were something that evolved along with Osho’s career as an India guru…they became more pronounced as the years passed. All of us are, in a way, incarnations of mudra. Everythng about our physical movements, including hand gestures, are symbolic of our state of consciousness. Osho was, of course aware of this.
I was often fascinated by Osho’s delicate and symbolic hand gestures, during the seven years I sat in front of him during discourses and darshans. I might add that it was not a great surprise when I learned of his back problems, because sitting with his legs crossed for decades in the way he did was conductive to developing a chronic lower back condition.
There are times, when involved in an intimate or intense conversation, that I notice my hands taking classic mudra forms, that I wonder if they are authentic or something I picked up from watching Osho for over such an extended period of time. I can’t really say for certain but it might be an amalgam of both.
Like much else in human life mudric hand gestures are something that can be cultivated. I am not saying that this is the case with Osho, but for all we actually know about him it could be that he consciously cultivated his hand gestures. He was certainly a master of this. His public presentation, as the year passed, became ever more theatrical and he was a great show man and we in turn loved his show. So maybe he cultivated the practice of symbolic hand gestures. The truth is we do not know if he did or not.
I’ve been to a few satsangs where it is obvious that the satsang giver has cottoned on to the visual impact that hand mudras create. Their movements often appear unauthentic and cultivated and they could develop this practice by studying Osho vids because he, more than anyone else I know, set the trend. For example, if one watches Swami Ranjeesh in action it appears as obvious to me that his hand gestures are unnatural and that he is obviously trying to imitate Osho in this respect. Give him a few years more and with much practice they will perhaps be a fair imitation of the man he wishes to emulate.
My point is that we are so in the dark about such matters that I belive it is a mistake to be taken in by physical appearances in general, because often as not they are not what they appear to be. We live in our own inner world and it is rare for one to meet another and know for certain that you both inhabit the same inner space. What to say of viewing someone from a distance?
Lokesh says:
>> So maybe he cultivated the practice of symbolic hand gestures.
There was much that Osho cultivated that he did not talk about. (If one ignored His mouth…) there were two physical levels to him. On one level he was “a yogi”. He had control over his body. I’ve been doing research into this stuff recently. It is basic Jain. Osho was a Jain before he was anything else, or nothing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kayotsarga
You can also see “His training” by the unusual response he had to pain as attested by his doctor, and dentist.
[When you shut down, or subdue, one (or more) of the senses, the others get heightened.
On the second level he was also practicing “experiencing” (people and events) for the “first time” as a way of being more in the now.
Watching him has been a bigger lesson for me than listening to him.
Yes, BV, but I cannot imagine Osho sitting in front of a mirror in the privacy of his room going, this is a good one. I think I’ll try out this palms upraised number tomorrow morning in discourse. He was far too confident for that. I must admit the thought of it does makes me smile.
“On the second level he was also practicing “experiencing” (people and events) for the “first time” as a way of being more in the now.”
Would this spontaneous response to people not be a purely natural effect of enlightened consciousness though, Vartan, ie not something that needed to be ‘practised’?
Me bad. “Utilized” would have been a better description than “practised”…but it sounds funny though.
“You can also see “His training” by the unusual response he had to pain as attested by his doctor, and dentist.
[When you shut down, or subdue, one (or more) of the senses, the others get heightened.”
Not forgetting the “unusual response” and “heightened” senses generated by copious use of nitrous oxide….
oops
Satyadeva,
“Not forgetting the “unusual response” and “heightened” senses generated by copious use of nitrous oxide….”
Perhaps, Satyadeva, we are all very forgetful of our own copious use of unconscious “nitrous oxide”, identification with most bizarre thoughts and insane behaviour in this world…we even forget we are Light Beings and that the Earth has a soul “Anima Mundi” and that the World has a Heart…
Thank you for your humour….
I’m sure you’re right, Upnita.
And what is your own ‘take’ on Osho’s rather large use of NO2?
What do the SN punters make of his hand movements?
The only other man whom I’ve seen using similar hand movements in public is Billy Gibbons from ZZ Top. There are certain other similarities between the two men. A love of big-engined cars, big women, funny hats and, of course, long grey beards. Osho once heard ZZ Top on the radio and enquired, ‘Is that jazz music?’
I wonder how many readers had actually heard of ZZ Top before reading your post, Lokesh…
I’d say no more than, er, er, 3 or 4?
Well, I’m sure Osho was aware that every girl’s crazy about a sharp dressed man. I wonder how many fans of ZZ Top have actually heard of Osho. I’d say only a few.
Check the hand movements….
I was there, so lovely. Wow. He looks very clear.
When for first time I heard about this incident, I couldn’t believe that Osho could be bothered by such things or rather, I couldn’t relate to it. Now, after so long, still can’t relate to it .
This video clip does show that he is so loved & cared for, by all around him.
The hand movements and the smile may well appear firm to some, but my feeling here is that he was perhaps trying to put on a brave face. To me he looks like a very frail, tired, ailing and prematurely aged 59 yr old man (looks like he could be 70 or more), who is only just managing to keep it together whilst in the public eye. He does not look like or move like somebody happy to be in his/her body…at least not in my opinion.
What also engages me about this clip and similar ones, is trying to spot faces I recognize. I am pretty sure that is Anando, at one point bending forward with a serious, pained facial expression, trying to hear what Osho is saying. P’haps her hemorrhoids were playing her up from sitting on that cold marble floor in Buddha Grove or wherever it was?
Come on sannyasin spotters…who else is recognizable in the clip?
I could recognise only 4 of them , at 00 .13 its Anando , Shunyo & Avirbhava , 00.42 its Tyler .
I had a friend behind the camera during Osho’s last days. He told me the old boy was having a job walking and was extremely frail. In the above vid he looks well for a man who would be dead a few days later. As we all know, looks can be deceptive, especially while dressed up in a theatrical costume in the back of a Rolls Royce.
But it could be rationalisation, couldn’t it?
I mean AFTER he died many were saying that he had looked frail, tottering etc., but I don’t remember many saying so before.
I was not going to Buddha Hall every night, but often enough, and I remember that when he died I was amazed that somebody could be coming out few days before and then dead. And I really don’t think that this was denial.
My idea is that it was an assisted suicide, that would explain very well how somebody, even in not great health, even if probably in pain, could be one day smiling and moving around and a couple of days later dead.
I met a friend a couple of weeks back at a local market. She was an old sannyasin in her early seventies. We shared a laugh together and I commented on how well she looked. A few days later she died peacefully of heart failure.
Do not be fooled by appearances.
Yes, Lokesh, it has been in my life experience also.
My disquiet was a general term.
“My idea is that it was an assisted suicide,”
Mine too. I also heard that it was messy but I am not prepared to say any more on this on a public forum.
His last appearance in Buddha Hall was on the 17th, if I remember correctly.
“Cant imagines it will stay up long”…
I’ve saved a copy in case it needs to be re-posted.
The hand movements are pure “Indian” (and not ZZ Top). What surprised me was the dexterity and precision of both of his hands. I knew at the time (from private reports I was getting) that he was unsure on his feet and that can be seen in the video too.
Thanks Vartan for saving this. Good idea.
People who were close to him, know exactly were he was pointing at. For us is only speculating. And the audience must be on film too. Osho’s body might seem fragile, but he (his spirit, his whole energy) looks absolutely clear. What I have heard people coming near to their death become more single pointed (not blurred or vague at all like somebody wrote here before) . That was also my own experience when my close friend let me be close to her in her final days when she died.
I knew that guy who took all the (now official) pictures at his funeral; I do not know if he was behind the video camera as well, he never came back to Pune. He told then he had problems with the copyrights, of course…and was very stressed out about it. I also took pictures at the funeral, but never did anything with them.
Copyright, it all depends on what was said or understood. In general copyright of a photo belongs to the photographer.
But if, say, Amrito had said something like, “Hey Sw. So ‘n So, would you take some photos for us at the cremation?”, then copyright might well belong to OIF.
True, alokjohn. I do not know why he was stressed out about it.
After Osho died a lot of people simply left the “movement” as it were, and quite a few, really quite quickly. They found all sorts of excuses or genuine reasons for so doing.
Maybe your acquaintance just wanted to leave and found an excuse.
Alok John is right about the copyright.
Thanks, Alok John.
Yes, you are right, Osho’s very last satsang was on January 17th, the following day after this clip.
Dhanyam has kindly let me know that a DVD of that is available through Viha and I will purchase a copy. We can then have a group showing to SN and other friends sometime over the next month in North London, after it arrives from California.
Osho is, was and ever shall be…
I’m sure I’ve heard that somewhere before, but it’s great to know that once we have chosen to incarnate, there are some lovelies like him out there (well him really , as i never (happily ) ventured into other guru-laden lands )….to keep us company in this stupid, fucked-up world…
It’s something (osh0-ness) that just engraves in the heart, and totally pisses off most (read all ) people who want to pull one over on you…though they know not from whence it comes, but they suspiciously feel it like a force to be reckoned with…
I’m more than grateful to Osho for showing me how, by his own example, to prevent others from taking the piss, and giving it back large if it happens…Frankly, I can not believe the huge deficiency rates of Human Personality-Defect syndrome that I have come across, that have not the slightest spark in them that you might call ‘able to welcome the Osho effect’.
Don’t know how that magic happens, but I know that once subjected to that level of grace, the effects can not be rubbed off…even if one happens to be called a wanker by anyone else…(ps: the ‘normal’ asshole levels are absurdly high here in Italy, thought UK was bad, ha!).
It’s as if their run-of-the mill ego just wants to win by contradiction…in the usual fart-ass work-based etc. games of daily society (i’m currently, as always, diplomatically sticking two fingers up to the cunts)…
and all our lingering Oshoness, that thrives and breathes that radicalisation of all heart-linked extremities, just is ready to say, ‘you must be joking, mate’…(to those with their excellent, unmistakeable impression of a professional…Idiot).
And this also goes for the nutcase games played out at crapola spirit festivals in Osho’s name all over the planet. I guess it’s good to know the bullshine wherever it lurks, trouble is though, it usually makes for trouble…still fun though…
cheers, Osho…
as always…
(how can his transplanted memories fade? They can’t, they just get more useful over time…because you’re reminded of his unique and giggle-producing ‘tremendous’ simplicity…nice one, Osh, see you later, as they say. ttfn).
A lot of wisdom there prem martyn.
Well, yes, Martyn, the dysfunctional world that we all know is, to quote another master, “a shithouse”, you’re spot on there. I’m sure we’ve all wanted to blow the whole rotten edifice to smithereens at times.
And you appear to have more ‘issues’ in your daily dealings out there than most. In fact, your worldly life sounds like a bloody nightmare: conflict and torment everywhere, coping with “assholes”, “cunts”, “personality deficient…professional Idiots”, insults, trickery, “fart-ass work-based games”…
Do you ever wonder, ‘Why me?’ Why you appear to attract all this apparent ‘persecution’?
Or is it that you’re somehow ‘authentic’ and can therefore ‘see through it all’, refuse to compromise your ‘self’ – and thereby get up “the cunts”‘ noses (to coin a phrase)?
I’m sure it’s extremely useful to use Osho and “Oshoness” as a way to make yourself always ‘right (and the ‘others’ wrong) but do you ever put yourself in the shoes of these “cunts”, perhaps attempt to see more where they might be coming from? Even “professional idiots” have been known to be ‘right’, occasionally…
Mind you, I’m not so sure I could make a case for the defence on behalf of “nutcase games at crapola spirit festivals in Osho’s name”…Still, I guess there (and elsewhere) it might well come down to differing interpretations of what “Oshoness” might actually be….
SD..
I give up…whats the answer..? Can I go 50-50 or phone a friend ?
In fact I’ve just put myself in your shoes for the answer, and I reckon Parmartha is to blame.
Thought you might not need any assistance, Martyn, seeing as you’re so in touch with, er, ‘Osho-ness’…
SD, ta…
that Osho-ness you mention…it’s located next to all the profound deep truths that remain mysteries…I’m currently working on my oeuvre entitled ‘ Getting the hump, whilst sitting in my alone-ness by a famous Scottish Loch’.
Never mind, Martyn, we all have our loads to bear (some more than others, apparently)…
Keep using ‘Osho-ness’ – it whitewashes whiter, y’know!
Never mind…?
is that an insight or pure plagiarism ?
Excellent tip , by jove, please renew my subscription to this Sannyas advaita advice column forthwith.
Thanks a bunch, Martyn.
In the immortal words of Hurree Singh, “Your Osho-ness is terrific.”
PS: According to my Spiritual Dictionary, ‘Never Mind’ is:
“An informal invocation not to unduly trouble oneself with the products of negative imagination or fantasy – the affliction known to the common mind as ‘worry’.
All genuine spiritual teachers warn against this mental proclivity (that is fuelled by aberrant emotion), for example Jesus Christ’s advice to just forget one’s problems at the end of the day “for sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof” and, in modern times, the great Indian Master, Meher Baba, attempted to relieve his followers of this impediment to their well-being by his famous ‘catchphrase’, “Don’t Worry, Be Happy!” ”
I trust, Martyn, this helps you make the most of this “excellent tip”, which, though originally learned from spiritual masters, has become, through my living experience, my own “insight”.
Thus, I’m glad to have been of assistance, as, despite (or even because of) your ‘Osho-ness’, you have sounded rather ‘vexed’ recently.
‘catchphrase’, “Don’t Worry, Be Happy!” ”
Are we taking it then that Happiness is…the absence of Worry.
To which I would argue that the absence of Worry merely puts one at the baseline, “point zero”.
For Happiness, you have to be in Love. Prem Martyn is not in Love. No criticism, just stating a fact, as I see it in his words.
Getting the hump, whilst sitting in my alone-ness by a famous Scottish Loch.
Following Crowley’s foosteps?
Osho-ness, Oshoism, Oshonism… remember when we were called Rajneeshees?
Henceforth we shall be known as Mohanees full of Chandra goodness.
(Osho’s full name was Mohan Rajneesh Chandra)
when Crowley got fed up , he gave the six fingered salute….
Did you know that Crowley started the Loch Ness monster tale?
dear STD,
your joy is infectious.
and a blisteringly good read.
and like every good hoarder and powdered fop you make yourself up as you go along.
For further advice on STD’s please phone our hotline where we will be happy to re-invent everything you say.
Crowley did not start the Loch Ness monster number, but he did own a house on the banks of Loch Ness. Jimmy Page eventually bought it.
It was in his “Confessions”, Autohagiography. He started a story about a monster (he gave it a name that I cannot remember) to stop people trespassing through his grounds and spying on him. It is not part of the official story but when you read it, it sounds the kind of story that could get out and spread.
A persistently reported monster or colony of monsters in the vast area of Loch Ness in northern Scotland. The loch is some 24 miles long and about a mile wide, with a depth from 433 to 754 feet. A monster was reported here in ancient Gaelic legends as well as in a biography of St. Columba circa 565 C.E. The modern history dates from 1933, when the monster began to receive a significant amount of media attention. If the mystics and monster hunters are to be believed, Crowley and the odd events at a house on the South-Eastern shore of Loch Ness in the early 1900′s may be responsible for the appearance of the legendary beast, but not Nessie…the dreaded boogey man….aieeee!
SD wrote ‘….to quote another master “a shithouse “…’
Who is this other master to whom you refer SD? Such a person of such obvious groundedness and realism, sounds like somebody worth paying attention to.
Aussie Barry Long, Ashok. As a former newspaper editor and pr man for top politicians he well knew how the world works.
The Dutch psychotherapist sannyasin Amrito (Jan Foudraine) interviews him at youtube in two short videos, Master of the West.
Many thanks. Will take a look.
You could check out Gurdjieff. He was not too impressed with our planet’s position in the ray of creation.
dear fellow trevellers in this caravanserai
the everlasting KOANS (unresolvable by the mind)
Osho was and IS are not given to tourists coming with their cameras for foto shootings
or their spotting “who is who” in some seeming “celebrity-line”
or for the aim (?) of name-dropping here and there
even not to rush to surf on some hypothetical suspicion debate
or to use it for own dream stuff as well as nightmares
eyes wide open? – “eyes wide shut”?
i remember myself – just having arrived in india – the first january days of 1990
my whole system got in shock about the announcements given daily
as well as i remember the heartily welcome hugging of friends
my joy of having finally again made it to get me on the way
as well as I remember a formless despair and fear, feeling what was going on and yet could not – can not spot it – although life travelling has worked on that since
i remember having been “congratulated” that i had made it “in time” as it was expressed and i remember me having responded to that:
“BEING HERE – is – how i understand it by now is not a question of geography but a question of awareness”
around the middle of the nineties i was able to watch one of the rare videos a devotee had made when Ramana Maharshi passed to the other shore – his disciples sitting around his bed sitting silently or chanting
where can i go ? – he is said to have said – i will be HERE – and addressed lovingly those in tears
one of the messages great maturity is needed
how i feel it
not to misuse the message for just another trance whatsoever
so a koan is kind of wake-up call
until its work is done
and – once again – it is very unique in its effects
and maybe most of this can not be spoken of
love
to all fellow travellers and also to the tourists in this caravanserai
the “spotters”, “punters” and howsoever else they were mentioned or even called up….
madhu
Madhu!
You talk of ‘travellers’ and ‘spotters’, ‘tourists’ etc. Perhaps you would be kind enough to explain what you mean exactly by these classifications? Or are you, once again, going to ignore my request for clarity? Not that I feel singled out for this treatment in any way, because I notice you have also refused to answer other writers’ requests for clarification, too.
Living in hope for a gift of clarity and common-sense to appear from the ethereal, woozy, psychedelic (sic), poetic, whimsical, spiritual nether regions of a long-serving, and it would appear long-suffering…sannyasin.
Ashok
Punter ,a person who gambles, places a bet, or makes a risky investment by surrendering at the feet of a dodgy guru.
Martyn is only describing fustration being vulnerable in the world. See HBO’s “Enlightened”, with Laura Dern, hilarious and familiar to many. No need for new gurus.
Oh, I see…(though you coulda fooled me)…
Well, that’s all right then…
Are you, by any chance, his PR woman? If so, how long have you been on his payroll? And in your experience, has he always been as “vulnerable in the world” as he is now?
Sounds like Fresch will be breaking bad any day soon.
I just read a study about what emotion/feelings arise through watching different emotion/feelings. If you watch anger it raises anger and also deepens same attitudes people have about the issue; those who agree, agree more and those who oppose, oppose more.
My interpretation: no more negative writing about our Putin. If you watch sadness, you feel empathy, if joy, you want to share it. So, that’s the reason for cat movies. That’s were my future is. Loki, I hope your new guru has a cute cat.
‘Watching’ usually means observing one’s own internal processes through containing emotions rather than expressing them. Here, Fresch, it’s unclear whether you’re referring to this or to simply ‘watching’ other people emoting. Or perhaps to both?
Please clarify exactly what you mean.
SD, I totally forgot about that meaning for watching (watching your body, emotions, mind), of course I did mean watching another person.
However, this is a highly interesting point, SD. If I am feeling angry (and watching it), will I actually get angrier? Also, if I am feeling sad (and watching it) will I feel empathy? If I am feeling joyous, will I want to share it? Then what is catharsis for?
Isn’t catharsis for offloading emotional rubbish that’s become too uncomfortable to bear, whether consciously or unconsciously held?
Other stuff we should be able to process ‘normally’, as that’s what our systems are made for, aren’t they?
AS for your other questions, well, why not experiment and see what happens?
Fresch, the watcher has no emotions. The watcher witnesses the anger and that is all it can do. But as anger can only exist in unconsciousness, once it is witnessed, then it has to change.
Identifying with the witness is on the path to self-realisation. If you are feeling sad and witnessing the sadness, it can only lead to compassion which is the only state of realisation.
I have three cats. They are very entertaining and utterly selfish.
Photos, videos,documentary?
Fresch says:
“If you watch anger it raises anger…”
If that was true, then watchers will be angrier than non-watchers.
Fresch, stop watching. And where does Putin fit in?
Varti, I have heard, watching negativity makes it disappear, and watching positivity makes it bigger. I am not sure. Perhaps I just instal cameras at my home and ask someone to follow me with the camera. Then I can watch it again and again, make it even slow.
Or I could provide that service for you, let’s say for 20,000 – a week. It’s also training for you to provide for other people. You become “ The Master of Watcher” instead of “Watcher of Master”..ehh..or how did it go?
Let’s forget about Putin, let’s meditate and jump together in the air. Watching it, of course.
To me all this watching yourself tinges on schizophrenia but I won’t say anything if you don’t.
[joke]
Sometimes I question my sanity.
Occasionally it replies.
Of course, the best. Just ask the price and I can do it for you too. Let’s make you a star.
No thanks, as not only do you write ambiguously (see my response to your ‘watching’ post), you also appear to be unwilling or unable to answer straightforward questions and therefore, on both counts, would be a PR disaster, not worth wasting my money on.
“The best”? No, just delusions of grandeur, Fresch.
SD, would you buy a used car from Fresch?
this site doesnt allow adverts for second hand cars, only second hand ideas.. with no proof of owner
signed , swami dodgy geezer
Not unless she’d washed it – er, I mean ‘watched it’, or washed it while ‘watching’ it, every day for for at least 9 months.
But not just watching it while washing it – too little time involved.
I know it’s obvious to us experienced meditators (with perhaps, one or two exceptions) but felt I’d better make this crystal clear anyway, as I’ve heard some ‘beginners’ also frequent this place.
SD, beginners are the most popular group in sannyas world. So, I hope you meant I would be one.
No, I wasn’t thinking of you at the time.
Varti, my car is not for sale, but let’s talk about the price of my soul. I can give good discount or discount.
I’m afraid souls are currently plentiful. I offer you ten shekels.
Going one.
Going twice…
Osho sitting crossed legs for hours in the way he did, as Lokesh mentions did also suprise and even alarm me. Vartan’s explanation of some Jain or yogic training is a common sense explanation, though there is no reference to it in the best source book I know for Osho’s earlier life by Swami Gyan Bhed.
Parmatha, I always read and love you efforts to bring discussion here deeper, but often it takes me long time to let it sink. I write this to let you know I do appreciate it.
SN, This reply experiment makes me crazy..Too much technical effort is needed to do it right…for me.
MOD: FRESCH, PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS TECHNICAL COMPLAINT, WE DON’T KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN!
Parmartha says:
“though there is no reference to it”
There are many references of Osho and hypnosis, but can you give me some examples where you witnessed it in action?
In the nature of things one can never control the stimulus, but only his response to it. You have to admit that Osho’s response to many events was ‘unusual’… and all I am saying is that Osho’s unusual response was conscious rather than quirky. And that comes from training.
I am surprised that people can accept that Osho needed the books to enrich his mentality but refuse to accept (Jain) practices for the training of his body.
Now if he spoke about all those subjects without reading the books… (can you see my argument?)
I wasn’t thinking of hypnosis. Osho had a couple of teachers who were Jains when a mid-teenager, according to Bhed. No reference to yogic practices or training re pain, not to say it did not happen though, but unlikely in my book!
So are we to assume that Osho had some sort of superpower?
Here is where we enter the “Was god a watchmaker?” debate. If you find a watch you would assume that someone has made it…
If Osho was not ‘manufactured’ (or de-manufactured) then there is no hope for the rest of us. I am not saying I believe everything I say, but it doesn’t hurt to be objective, even as an exercise.
I agree. He acted out roles. Archetypes.
Yes, in that sense manufactured. Spontaneous conscious role-playing with a purpose
There is a broad brush game plan.
The micromanagement is for us. (To make sure we never run out of things to squabble about, to ensure we don’t form mass alliances.)
Arpana says:
“There is a broad brush game plan.
The micromanagement is for us. (To make sure we never run out of things to squabble about, to ensure we don’t form mass alliances).”
I will meditate on that. I can see where you are going with it.
Martyn (12.15), so you see people start sharing joy..soon we all jump in the air together.
Thank you Fresch, many times people have suggested I go jump in something, … something wet and deep.. like a loch.. so your offer is a pleasant surprise.
MOD: PARAGRAPH DELETED HERE
Fresch, we are already in the air… now what?
Let’s just levitate.
hallo, shareholders, customers and the inheritors,
On this day of 21st March the founder of this resort where you are eating chicken wings with big grin and gulping single malt Whiskey got his graduation degree and license to open his establishment.
Now continue and please take care not to clean your oily hands with the tablecloths, on the better side use those hands when you give the back rub to each other!
Shants, I thought you were going to take a sabbatical… what happened?
Where else are you going to get the wisdom of the sands? Welcome back. It feels like you never left.
Just realised – thanks to Shantam – yesterday, Friday, was Osho’s ‘neverbornday’…
Did we all forget, or what?!!
PS: What does it matter anyway?
Chuddiereek, the ultimate fragrace from the Shri Shantam Mahadoodoo ashram in Germany. Light one stick of this magic incense, lay back, close your eyes and enjoy the show as images of that most spiritual of countries, India, flood your mind.
Smell the pong of open sewers, the cloying smell of desperate poverty, the burning Ghats of Varanasi, burnt chappatis, uncontrolled car emissions and a million and one other associative smells that will transport you to Mother India.
Try our special introductory offer today…and remember each stick is hand rubbed by a man steeped in the ancient tradition of Chuddie Tantra and a direct descendant from the great master Mahachud, who lived for five thousand years in a Himalayan cave and never so much as once changed his chuddies as a form of tapas. Chuddie Nama Shivia.
Shantam, it’s such typical Indian behaviour to say something and then act opposite as if nothing had been said. You just could not resist it. Now you two play this tape with Moon Loki to the end of the world I guess.
On behalf of the defendant, Fresch, he actually stated he’d be away for 3 months from the end of this one, not immediately.
Besides, as I said, he’s the only one here who noted Osho’s ‘neverborn’ day, so perhaps he deserves a bit of credit (just a tiny bit).
SD, Without Shantam, all of you would be just drinking tea here. But that is another issue. I was not paying attention to details, as usual. So I did not remember his (Shantam’s) holidays dates.
“SD, Without Shantam, all of you would be just drinking tea here.”
Haha, comic post of the year, Fresch!
Come back very soon, please, Shantam, the tea at this joint’s such a drag- we need more o’ the hard stuff! Next round’s on you, Shantam!!*
(*Translation supplied on request
Ashok ! (22.march at 4.15 am)
i did refer on the 20.3 with my last lines on your own post
….”come on sannyasin spotters, who else is recognisable…on the clip?”
as well as to Lokesh’s contribution the day before…(18.3.)
…”what do the SN punters make of his hand movements?”
It took you obviously two days to gather the spit in your mouth to once again release it and find a target to do so -
otherwise -
the virtual waves to surf have taken many other directions too
and nothing stayed the same – did you REALISE ?
if you have a need to release your everlasting aggression
would be kind you leave me out of this?
madhu
Madhu!
On the basis of the very ugly accusation you have made regarding ‘taking 2 days to gather spit’ in my gobbo before releasing it in somebody’s direction, I would have to conclude that you are the ‘aggressive’ one here.
At the very least, Madhu, please accept that the image you have conjured up was created in your own mind, not mine, and therefore you are responsible for it. I took 2 days to write something about your post because the credit on my wifi provider had run out, and I was therefore without access to the internet for a day or more.
Ashok, it is obvious that Madhu is communicating from a higher dimensional reality than us mere mortals.
Lokesh, I would very much like to write a message here supporting the comments in your posting. However, my conscience prevents me from doing so, as I fear that Madhu will interpret my agreement as some kind of ‘buddy’ support, and furthermore, make the claim that it is additional proof of the ‘bullying’ she has previously alluded to. I trust you will empathise with my reticence in this instance.
Yes, Ashok, my heart weeps for you. If you visit Ibiza please get in touch so that we can drip tears into our cafe con leche together. Sniff…
Bodhi Vartan…..
this is for you…
The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.
A Red, Red Rose
by Robert Burns
My love is like a red, red rose
That’s newly sprung in June :
My love is like the melody
That’s sweetly played in tune.
As fair art thou, my bonnie lass,
So deep in love am I :
And I will love thee still, my dear,
Till a’ the seas gang dry.
Till a’ the seas gang dry, my dear,
And the rocks melt wi’ the sun :
And I will love thee still, my dear,
While the sands o’ life shall run.
And fare thee weel, my only love,
And fare thee weel a while !
And I will come again, my love,
Thou’ it were ten thousand mile.
MOD: SOME EDITING AT THE TOP OF THIS POST.
This is pure art, I really love this one; original, authentic and just pure zen. Do you have some more?
But what exactly is “pure zen”, Fresch?
It’s the sort of term that’s bandied around, as if the writer/speaker and readers/listeners all know what it means. Well, I for one certainly don’t, do you?
SD, just watch the movie and then you know zen.
I’d already watched it and just now, watched it again.
Just another pretty little slice of sentiment. Is that what you think zen is about?!
Fresch, that Chuddiereek incense stick smoke has gone to your head. Pure Zen my yahoo!
Thanks Martyn. Pure Zen as Fresch said. As to what Zen might be… Zen is whatever Fresch says it is… I didn’t realise we were running an information service.
Poor response, Vartan!
You’re surely not another pretentious, pseudo-spiritual air-head who spouts nonsense about so-called ‘Zen’?
I’d thought better of you.
If I had a couple of thousand pages I could have done better. What do you expect in a couple of lines? Anything that can be “said” about zen will be wrong. So basically pick the kind of wrong you like.
The Buddhism (and Zen Buddhism) “you know” was a Greek ‘construct’ devised to be the enslaving ‘religion’ of the Eastern part of the Greek empire… and even though it was first spread by the Greeks (as the Greeks dissipated and disappeared) the construct was so-good it spread like wildfire right across the East and on into China and Japan.
In the link below you will find some of the few references of the current Japanese archaeological involvement into the birth of their religion and in this video you will see some of the first Japanese tourists arriving to see the relics.
The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.
http://centralasiandragons.weebly.com/bactria.html
I bet that surprises you. Most of this material is so recent that there isn’t much on the web about it.
As I said, pick your wrongness. Do you still want to argue? Bring it on.
Ancient history is often very interesting, Vartan – yet with your post, steeped in historical knowledge, we’re still no further into knowing what ‘Zen’ actually is, are we?
So we’re stuck with your previous response: “As to what Zen might be… Zen is whatever Fresch says it is… I didn’t realise we were running an information service”.
And your ” Anything that can be “said” about zen will be wrong. So basically pick the kind of wrong you like.”
This is the sort of pretentious mystification that I was getting at, which sounds so very ‘mysterious’, ‘full of Eastern promise’, yet, one suspects, hides little else other than sheer ignorance.
Unless you at least try to explain explain at least some of your claimed 2000 pages’ worth of insight into the nature of Zen and thus shed some practically useful light onto the matter then all this merely amounts to a sort of academic smokescreen, a sort of ‘Emperor’s New Clothes’ syndrome. Which is all too common when glamour-struck, intellectual-type westerners approach eastern mysticism.
If you think that Zen provides some answer then I would attempt to explain it…
Zen is a training in seeing how things (pragmata) ‘appear’, rather than how we ‘think’ they are. It is a re-evaluation of the phenomenal world and an adjustment of our relationship to it. Most race past the phenomenal and get caught-up by the minutiae of abstraction when presented as thoughts.
It is a way of looking at the objects (and subjects) themselves rather than our brain’s interpretation of them.
Thanks for clarifying this, Vartan.
It’s basically very simple, isn’t it, even within most people’s experience, perhaps especially those ‘working on themselves’, via meditation or whatever?
So how come all the ‘mystery’, all the holier-than-thou pussyfooting around it, all the reluctance to say anything?
Alan Watts:
“Square Zen is a quest for the right spiritual experience, for a satori which will receive the stamp (inka) of approval and established authority. There will even be certificates to hang on the wall.
For beat Zen there must be no effort, no discipline, no artificial striving to attain satori or to be anything but what one is.
But for square Zen there can be no true satori without years of meditation-practice under the stern supervision of a qualified master.”
As you may remember, Upnita, I am the great great grandson of quite a famous Victorian detective! So it’s in the blood! I just see Osho’s last days as a sort of unfinished detective story worthy of completion.
Parmatha,
Only saw yr comments now…”great great grandson of quite a famous Victorian detective.” Which one???
In my first job in Airlines in London I was called Sherlock Holmes because any time the books didn’t match (accounts) I was the only who could find the error amidst dusty piles of files…
We might have something in common…I do enjoy a good detective story!
He won’t tell us!
friends -
Robert Burns –
visiting a miraculous way this website in one of the updates of this century
is a Scottish (meanwhile) cult poet having lived his (short) life in the eighteenth century
was a freemason, a freemason speaker, and had other lodges connections too
was honoured because of his poetry and ability to express politics as elaborately as his poetry
loved a girl who died early and he couldn’t possess
loved another one he couldn’t possess either because her parents didn’t allow the connection
had some children though and not much is known about whatever happened to them –
quite a story these historical facts
and what people make out of it throughout the centuries
up to the moment they are used for an english sannyasin-news website and inter-connections -
sometimes code-wise…
the clip you offered – parmartha – has been shown in tao centre, Munich
at the beginning of the nineties
and i saw it as new
as well as i have been present in India the time it was filmed backstage so to say
i am with you when you say
that this is an unfinished story
i would say for all of us
as well as other stories being issues of many postings here
the way to deal with such though differs a lot
as this is a sannyas and meditators’ website
i dare to say that indulging in rumours or more than second-hand information can turn meetings in a virtual caravanserai into a kind of secret services battlefield
instead of growing up and sharing as friends
about what’s happening on the sometimes bumpy roads from here to here
in a never ending love affair
its joy, its pain and also that beyond both of it.
Madhu
dear parmartha …. a PS
some PS for you, parmartha, and maybe to your ancestor being so famous a detective in Victorian age -
i remember how it was to strive for a (paid) talk of former Teertha (Paul Lowe)
and his medium at that time
when he was visiting (during the eighties in the Munich area as a VIP and a shareholder of his own business.
it was a trial and more of fatal error thing to encounter my delusion of getting more clarity about madness and queer things happening on the Ranch
INSIDE, and by that i mean inside the sannyas collective and also inside amongst the RIMU facilitators (as therapists and sometimes in priest role like in any other cult- with fatal consequences as well)
one other step i took by connecting with Osho’s dentist, Devageet
at the beginning of the nineties, when he was busy installing his in the s colour puncture business here in Munich
he faced my trauma and my pain
by opening his big, black notebook and writing in it with a a very expensive fountain pen
and whatever he made out of my testimony stayed and sdark – at least for me
with other issues in term of abuse or misuse of “nobodies” by people who
dealt and are dealing with their very own spiritual egos
i don’t want to bother you -
anyway
the river is rivering in consciousness affairs
this very moment as well as in any others
my gratitude having been and being able to meet a master encouraging his lovers
with a cheriveti…cheriveti – go on….go on….
and a sammasati “remember to be a buddha-conciousness”
is unending
love
Madhu
PS of PS: learning to give and take and to SHARE a never ending learning
as well as learning to commune IN what we call communication
i simply loved Upnita’s “rainbow dream” she posted on that matter….
Upnita, amazing, talking about connection and coincidence, for 5 days I have been putting this song, “First Time” in a work project:
“This is where the day begins and I can’t stop this world from spinnin’
But if I could, I would live each moment like a first time, like a first
Time…”
It goes on and on….
Lokesh,
neither “immortal” nor insensitive to bullying remarks
i am
and you didn’t read the posts which were leading to this
and which were not concerned about you
(although you kind of defining me made the round…”multiplying” so to say.)
(MOD: COULD YOU CLARIFY WHAT THIS LAST BIT IN BRACKETS MEANS, PLEASE, MADHU?)
it’s not the first time i see your support as a buddy to those
who sometimes decide to find a target and then are in denial that they did it
and then keep complaining if i answer
Madhu
Oh dear, Madhu has obviously received her first shipment of Chuddiereek incense sticks. As you might have noticed, I was at first excited about Shri Shantam’s commercial outing. Now, alas, I realize that all that smokes is not gold.
Reports ae starting to come in about Chuddiereek incense sticks users developing adverse psychological effects. Amongst other things people, upon getting a whiff of Chuddiereek smoke, become overly serious and oversensitive about small, unimportant matters. Madhu has obviously been affected just so.
Never mind, all is not lost. There is a quick and effective antidote. Simply open the nearest window, stick your head out and yell, ‘I’m on Chuddiereek!’
Can someone change the metal pampers wrapped around Lokesh´s head?
Seems like someone has spoiled him, otherwise there is no reason why man should have such stinky arrogance.
I have submitted one article about a guru in the world. Lokesh kind will be quite benefited.
Benefited? In which way? If this has something to do with that charlatan, Swami Mahachud, I am not in the least interested. Turns out he is a bus conductor in Birmingham, who makes foul smelling incense sticks as a sideline.
Every person you meet is the right person for you in that moment, even for a one second in the crowd. Every line is right, even in the advertising billboard or back of the taxi. It’s chopping the wood and doing groceries in the super market. That’s why I love it. So, you seem to be a good couple shantam and lokesh.
Such nice, ‘enlightened’, ever-so-’spiritual words, so ‘comforting’ – when all’s going relatively well or ‘ok’…
As long as you continue to “love it” when the murderer or rapist pounces on you one dark night, Fresch…Or the drunk driver crashes his car into you, leaving you paralysed for life…Or you find yourself on the same flight as the terrorist who proceeds to blow up the aircraft…
Also, of course, that you don’t indulge in complaining about it afterwards (if you survive)….
Reminds me of the “love everyone” injunction, soon shown up as nonsense through any honest contemplation, or otherwise if/when one is confronted with a particularly difficult individual, eg someone who tells you, convincingly, they want nothing of your ‘love’ and furthermore, they’re going to do their best to make your life hell. Then see what becomes of all the so-called “love”…
If you can come through these or similar circumstances with your “love” intact – or even if you truly think you can – then you’re a likely candidate for ‘enlightenment’, so let the world know asap.
Otherwise, your “love it”, however ‘true’ it might seem or sincere you’re being, is ultimately just shallow, naïve delusion.
I was not talking about love, sd.
Fresch, you seem to be in the habit of blithely misreading or overlooking what others say here. I’m now starting to wonder whether you’re the type who reads what they want to read, sees what they prefer to see (etc.). Please re-read the second paragraph of my post (which contains the main point).
I wasn’t talking about “love” of a person there, I was referring to your thoroughly specious comment, eg: “Every person you meet is the right person for you in that moment, even for a one second in the crowd…That’s why I love it.”
Thoroughly specious unless you also “love it” under the adverse circumstances I’ve suggested. As I said, if you insist on “every person is the right person for you” (etc.) then don’t dare complain if/when you come across people and situations that you’d prefer not to have to face.
Otherwise this statement of yours will be just a sort of ‘spiritual consolation prize’ that turned out to be just a load of New Age-type hot air.
Isn’t it under adversity that this sort of ‘comfortable’ belief is truly tested? And arguably, when most real learning happens?
SD, you are not takng into account that Fresch may be suffering from Chuddiereek side- effecs. Simply put, the poor lass isnae in her right mind. It is all Shri Shantam’s fault. I wouldn’t be surprised if the blighter doesn’t post a new thread in a ploy to divert our attentions from this latest scandal.
Cool down, Moon Loki, you are in fever about Shri Shantam, not me.
Fresch, are you related to Olive Oyl of Popeye fame, perchance?
I hover at the edge of agreeing with Fresch, however I had an experience in 1990, (I won’t tell you what it is here, because the details could come across in a way I wouldn’t want them to, but if you want to know privately I will tell you. ) and I have never been able to dredge one single fucking positive anything out of it whatsoever.
I would like to hear it, can you change some details? I agree it’s kind of crazy, but incredible at the same time.
I hover, I should say, at the edge of agreeing with Fresch, in the sense that we can learn from anything.
I’m not arguing with that, just testing the depth of Fresch’s avowed approach.
Arpana says:
“I had an experience in 1990…
I have never been able to dredge one single fucking positive anything out of it whatsoever.”
Perhaps others may be able to learn something from it. I was violently mugged a couple of years back and it occasionally still hovers. Obviously nothing as violent as the examples you have given…but some positivity can always be gained by examining the ‘recovery time’.
I am talking about washing, watching and witnessing, owning, melting.
I’m afraid you’ll have to translate that into plain words for me to get what you’re saying here, Fresch.
As it is, I have to struggle to fit this ‘explanation’ to your original post and make sense of it.
Dear, sweet SD, you just want to oppose me. Let’s move on and perhaps come back to this later.
You’re so wrong, Fresch. I’m actually interested in what to me seems a flaw in your approach, as you haven’t really thought through its implications, have you?
No wonder you want to avoid the issue now!
(And btw, I don’t trust this “dear, sweet SD” stuff, sounds like manipulation to me).
That’s not something i would use for manipulating. Everything else, yes. You are sweet SD, just take it.
Watch out, SD. She’ll be calling you diddums next.
diddums
I’d like to hear what was going on from Anando or any of the other sannyasins in Osho’s immediate presence.
Love,
Prateeksha
Prateeksha,
this should be possible through Anando’s book which is published this year. Dhanyam at Viha has the exact dates of publication, etc.
Parmartha
Thanks for the information, Parmartha — and thank you for keeping the sannyasnews site going, which is a testimony to your unwavering devotion to Osho.