As Bodhi says, the expression has been around for a wee while. Quite popular in the Advaita school also, which is why, I reckon, it is used in relation to Osho. He was big on the witness thing. Have you really reached the enlightenment throne witnessing? Apparently not as the word is that as long as one is aware of witnessing one hasn’t really reached. I’ve witnessed this first hand on several occasions, while I was witnessing myself witnessing, of course. So was Osho something or someone who was never born and never died? It is a tricky question. I reckon it is better to focus on oneself in regards to such matters. Are you in touch with something that will not be born and will not die? Who knows this? Who is reading this? Who wrote it. Why did Osho make up a meditation technique that requires one to shout who? who? who?. Was this just another one of his jokes.
Sarcasm is not something I often indulge in. That is, generally speaking.
Newman, have you ever taken a powerful psychedelic? I ask because this is often what sparks up the fire in the heart for going on a spiritual search although, of course, not always. It certainly was the case for me.
At quite an earlier age I realised there was something amazing going on behind the stage of life and I wanted to understand more of it. At one point I was quite sure that Osho had the keys to such uderstanding. Today I am not so sure and besides Osho is now history. He was, I now realize, a kind of stepping stone.
So, over the years, I have occassionally stumbled into states that could be described as transcendental of the limited ego-self. I disagree with Bodhi when he says, ‘I cannot possibly see how the witness can be transcended, as it is a self-referential system.’ There is a certain state of awareness that needs nothing to refer to in order to know that it is. You either understand it or you don’t. To know it you have to die to everything and let go. Might sound simplistic and cliched but that is what it comes down to.
I have no wish to enter into intellectual discussions on the matter because one cannot understand what I am describing via the intellect.
By saying these things I don’t wish to appear special in any way…because I am not special. It just so happens that conditions were occasionally right for me to enter such states. Today I am a pretty uncosmic man…very down to earth one might say. I choose to be so as I see life as an opportunity to live and experience limitation. Without the mind and body we will once more be limitless for eternity. I don’t believe in personal reincarnation either.
Now, back to my studio, where paint and canvass await.
Thanks BV.
I know from Sunday school!, that Melchizadek gave Abraham some kind of “okay” , so that sure is a long time ago.
But whilst not a Bible scholar cant remember anything about “never born, never died”. What source are you using, maybe Dead Sea Scrolls?
Would be interested to tie the reference down.
When I wrote that comment it was after a quick Google, because I knew it wasn’t an original statement. Looking a bit deeper now… two others also were ‘never born, never died’. Elijah and Enoch. For myself, it must have been Enoch that I remembered, because I read a lot about Enoch. Probably in the Apocrypha. One thing about the Hebrew ‘never born’ is that they are born ‘ready circumcised’…. “I wonder…”
Advaita what so ever it is, seems to be the real calling for Lokesh.
I don’t mind when people go to Harrods to buy a glass of Nutella, but looks really fanatic, when they say, ” Harrods sells Nutella”.
Dom’s thought for the day ~
In a non-dual state or experience, there is only one seamless consciousness appearing as a multiplicity of forms. No you separate from any other.
No Osho or buddha outside of you.
Just like in a dream drama, full of separate characters, that appear very real while it’s going on. Then you wake up…… into a waking dream.
Witnessing is for beginners. I can’t see the point. Nor does it seem very doable. Honestly, can you witness anything for more than a second or two, before the mind skitters off. Ok if you try really really hard, but it’s still one part of the mind witnessing another part of the mind.
‘Who am I’ is an attempt to turn attention back on awareness itself, which is a step up I suppose.
But it’s all too much like work.
Really you’re already it, so what more is there to do but rest and relax as you are, in your very unenlightened state?
Aah now, doesn’t that feel better?
I must have picked up something in all my years being a guru slut, perhaps a gtd (guruly transmitted disease) or John de Vampire bit me in the neck while I wasn’t looking, and I turned into one of the walking dead.
I cannot possibly see how the witness can be transcended, as it is a self-referential system. If you remove the witness, you automatically also remove the universe. When watching a good movie or reading a good book or listening to a good speaker (Osho?), the witness can be lost for a while. Is that why we like movies?
Not witnessing the witness basically means being lost in “the act”.
All that birth and death… shows that some are not comfortable with reality. (It’s tough, I know.)
There’s nothing really to transcend.
Ultimately there’s only oneness or consciousness or whatever useless verbiage one wants to use.
The ‘witness’ as it is usually described and made into a practice like vipassana, is the attention faculty watching other parts of the mind.
It’s still dual. Just a game really.
You may be right that finally everything disappears into the ‘singularity.’
No guru, no method, no teacher, no planet, no-thing…
The true meaning of never born, never died.
Awareness and it’s manifestation are not separate.
Unfortunately it’s often presented like that, with eastern attitudes preferencing one over the other, resulting in life negative philosophies.
When the line between subject and object, inner and outer, collapses, the structure held together by language and thought (me and you) does too.
But don’t ask me how you do it!
Losing the witness or not losing the witness while watching the movie is part of a larger movie.
The body is for sure geared up for survival rather than mortality.
Anyway those who speak don’t know, isn’t it?
Nice to see bv back in the saddle again.
Olo ine endaxi.
I dont know whether all this talk of witnessing is actually confusing seekers.
I feel something much more simplified like saying anything that fosters a non anxious, light and humorous disposition, and leaves one in such a state – in at least some kind of semi continuous way, needs to be courted. Anything from ecotherapy to watching good movies…
Confusianism says… “knowledge is the path from cocky ignorance to miserable uncertainty.”
As you say there is much enjoyment to be had from the senses…
E.g. shantam gets pleasure from a comfortable pair of chuddies and surfing the dark internet, arpana from extensive transcribing and copypasting, and sd from eyeballing mutter meera.
Each to his own, live and let live.
But then there is the happiness that comes without any object, a subtle current from within… the one without a second, the indweller of the heart.
Instead of concentration I would rather say a word like resting or some such, implying non-doing and ease. Whereas concentration, suggests focusing and effort, useful for more task related activities.
As for guru slut, properly speaking there isn’t an equivalent word for a man. Sorry ladies!
A man it appears just can’t have, too much sex.
Perhaps a guru stud, casanova, or gigolo then.
Worshipping hiisss snake again. Don’t get your nagas in a twist.
Strangely enough the one and only time I had a non-dual (non-drug) experience, I did feel energy shooting up my spine.
Maybe they did know what they were on about!
From wickedpedia…
Shesha, the pure hissness of being, “is generally depicted with a massive form … on the ocean of milk”.
Don’t blame me, I didn’t write this stuff.
I like the emphasis from Lokesh, and even Dom if I understand him right in this string to concentrate within.
It doesn’t matter about Osho, or in Dom’s case his multiplicity of gurus when he was a guru slut, all that can ever matter is one’s own interiority.
Witnessing is observing the inner landscape without Judgement, and the inner judge is the barrier to witnessing, and in the early stages is necessary to take note of judging the judging as gently as possible, become aware of the judge and the judging of the judge
dear bodhi vartan and yes – also dear sannyas news moderators
i really loved this morning the apparanttly beside the issue
this “the one” quote remembering an old myth (may be as precise also human being) called then
“melchiizedech”
i love surprises – very much so
that s why
did a little google-ling
what i loved about this
historical or non historical ?human being (a king)
is that the happening so to say is also connected (mentioned in the new testament as well – as also may be “global” aftereffects then)
that something came out of fashion and that is
NO ritual murder on humans any more for religious purposes
and yes
WE ALL KNOW !
don t we ? that the so called human t o d a y
seams to go backward up to stone age time
when we are listening to everyday news and terror with a lot of completely innocent people killed as well
sometimes even clearly
camouflaged as “religious” acts
i also sensed mentioning an myth and its effects
in an mysterious healing preventively may be bad aftereffects
to look at a satiral drawing and post of osho and vedanta tribes
in the background realities of really shameful court happenings
if they then happen or not
but
up comings are up comings
i loved what kavita shared concerning this matter …. black english humor may be ????
i am not able to take it THAT easy…
so i loved also what chetna shared concerning that matter
knowing
that may be shantam prem as an insider
of indian ways to deal with this and that
will take it all…… if you know what i mean…
aahhh
just now
in the here now . de
i had as an evening tv gift
to remember franz kafka and his
in a way wise foreseeing about the bugging games
he could t digest ist
soooo sorry-
played not only ba the states organs but played also by so called friends
mysterious enough
may be
time for mystic rose laughter
that gave to me the last hint a culture hint
just to poste
it
all
or at least some of that
what was on my mind-and-more-TODAY
so
beloveds,
may we all have a beautiful evening and a good night too
For me: ‘no’ it’s not ‘never born, never dies. Witness to me is equal to awareness. We witnessing what has been realized. It penetrates life permanent, silence is a result of assurance and surrender.
“The witness” is the one that can balance the most angels on a pinhead.
He is not real. The concept is figurative and has been created as a mental exercise… because most ppl “act differently when being watched” you create an internal “watcher” to hopefully change your behaviour towards something better.
What is never born and never dies is the consciousness that the brain plugs into. But looking for it inside the head is like looking for the TV presenter inside the TV.
Stay with the confusion and wanting to know.
What does your own guidance tell you?
Seems to mean different things to different people.
In osholand it generally meant noticing what was going on, but still referred to you as a person.
In papajiland, the interest was in the ‘who’ that is doing the noticing, that is, the awareness itself. Thus ‘never born, never dies.’
Personally I never liked the word.
Rather cold and reminiscent of a legal drama.
Are you making a cross-claim?
In this case we have no habeas corpus, only some witless witness oral testimony.
Hopefully, if biblical chippies were doing their job properly, with sufficient nails and 2 by 4 from the Jerusalem DIY superstore, it would have been right angles rather than oblique.
Personally, I would have preferred a hung jewry to a cross-examination.
the answer to your question you can only find in yourself
what i am finding helpful is to have a walk outside (alone)
or to clean some shelves or some other neglected spaces in the apartment i am living in
anyway
everybody has to find his or her unique way
today s morning here milky-white-grey
rain drops are dancing
i had a nice breakfast
that all
then the opportunity to give a hello to some unknown fellow traveler on a virtual caravanserai
Using your own high forensic standards, how can you be sure SD?
Perhaps M. is another CIA operative, lulling us all?
Misty poesy and love of housework as evidence, wouldn’t stand up in a court of law, and shamelessly reinforce gender stereotyping.
Internet is everywhere, so i could not resist this one. What is a person quoting osho, not having his own words at all, like never? It’s a playback actor..and the oscar goes to the one and only pune meditation resort facebook .
One day, I had a customer with a punctured bicycle. As I remember he was a Gora man with funky Om trouser.
He told me to watch and witness where the needle has made the hole in the tube. After the work I told him, ” 10 Rupees baba.”
He was happy and offered Ganesha Biri. I said, ” No baba, when I smoke, it is only Marlboro.”
He laughed, ” You good for watching.”
I said, “What watching? Not many punctured bicycle baba. All have now bikes.”
Gora man said, ” Then watch the traffic. Watch the breathing, watch your thoughts, watch your desire to smoke Marlboro.”
I thought, these people from rich countries can afford to watch. I think many of them have never worked. Only holidays.
I think I have not seen many Gora people any more. Their guru is now every where!
( Gossips with a Pune Cycle mechanic)
White people are really bad. They invented pharmaceutical combinations. indigenous combinations were replaced. Human beings started living longer and healthy, and therefore population in the Banana and mango democracies multiplied.
Really white people are very bad!
When it is due, I won´t hesitate to give credit to any one, so much so, I will die peacefully after the shot from an M.D rather than trusting some Aurevedic thing at the time of need.
my IT -technical abilities go below zero so to say
i know to speak and i know to write
but i don t know to trick the IT way -nor to compile and sometimes i don t know how to handle the computing machinery
the reason that inspite of my longing to commune to friends and fellowtravellors as a sannyasin took so long to realize (?)
has been this my mentioned IT-technical inability as equipment
as well as the fact that i have been and i am quite disillusioned from the very beginning towards the HYPE of virtual enter-info -tainments
or other words say
the possible misuse issues in these realms
to acknowledge that
to be aware of that
popped up in me when masses of people walked up in the streets
blind and deaf and not at all present
glued to theire electronic equipments
people who got/are getting drowned in their “IT-almighty” phantasies by their simple technical abilities while lacking for my eye side very much integrity and maturity
there are simply too too many
my full name posted happened by my inability to cope with technics so to say
believe it or not that has not been my intention
what the posting of a photo concerns
neither i am capable -nor -
as the experience with rotten chauvinismus as it happened with/and from lokesh just now
also on this caravanserai site ( a sannyas dedicated site?)
shows
that photos would t in any way solve the problem that the amount of respect sometimes here is also below zero
and i am not as cool as some guys here seem to be
my compassion
with lots of females
entrapped in lots of male bodies here (quoting lokesh in vice versa terms)
is great
so let us see how long my compassion for myself
allows me to be part of respondings
i simply don t know
we ll see
good morning !
it s foggy and cold winter morning here
and i woke up very early
and found myself sitting here to post to you all and shantam and lokesh in particular
that s the way it is
i confess just now
i may be glad that you are not here
it may be that i could t take some of the roughness happening
as well as dishonest foul-plays
neither i copy nor paste it addressing you that way
the best i can say
i take it as a modus “operandi” and sometimes also i feel it that way
like the child s vision
“you are here…. i am here.. and that s enough… of opportunity”
today s getting with my legs out of the bed
took me four hours by ever now and then giving it a try
now
it s done (long shower included)
woke up the very early morning
when it was foggy and very dark outside and the one and only little bird
in the court yard has been singing his or her song
then abruptly stopped
and an even deeper silence then
it is sunday
the special offer of today s
reminding
—-we are all blessed ones—-
YES -
ALL -
that means also the ever fighting ones
also the peepshow affine peepers
also the some secret services gangsters
yes even the data robbers who are into stealing identities and more
by data phishings
i n c l u d e d
yes these kind of lists are long as you know
and i know it too
and yes
it s quite a challenge to be blessed this way -
in the misty fogs of the morning
the inner cloud watchings of mine
having had also more a misty flow than any contoured shape
…..
the flute player master hariprasad chaurasia came by
with his peaces
“call of the valley”
“the valley recalls”
AND
“meditative romance”
and i remembered the story i read in an interview (with the musician himself)
that he was a childhood friend of osho and that they used to swim together in the river near by
wild and free (that s nugget for lokesh)
then the misty fog
sent me into a documentary about buddhist monastery and the scene
that in the courtyard
the young monks were in the debating exercise
throwing their arms
clutching their hands
and the bodies like bamboos swaying
and yet a discipline in it all (in pair-wise settings)
and the most important
the LAUGHTER
AFTER
and then these (more then) seen pictures faded again
still enjoying my reluctance to get up
but what to do
bowed down to get up
left leg needs to exercise walking
very much so as i didn t do anything yesterday- not shopping nor walking nor anything remarkable
just a little cut-room peeping if you are still there and how is THAT going….
Notice-
Sannyasnews bloggers won´t writing today.
They are participating in meditation activities in their respective cities.
To remind our esteemed readers, exactly on this day of 19th January, Osho left the body ca 2014BC.
I sometimes feel when visiting here this something: rather a Paulian thing, but needs to be said:
“Whether you talk for me or against me, you have to talk about me. You cannot forget me. And when you are talking about me, even if you are talking against me, you have not left me yet. I am still very much alive in you. In fact you are talking against me just to get rid of me but you cannot get rid of me. The more you talk against me, the deeper I will be going in you.”
A specious and narcisstic argument that did Osho no favours in the long run.
I am ‘against’ many things… meat-eating, islam, mass immigration, child abuse, political correctness. Are we all Priests or Politicians devotees for talking ‘against’ their corruption?
Anyways, none of us are really talking about Osho the person, who we never knew, but our idea of him and his legacy, warts and all.
Which is liberating, because it was difficult if not impossible to do so at the time.
However, Osho’s statement is self-evidently true, Dominic, your case being a good example. Common sense would indicate that if you were as really “free” of Osho (and any other teacher or master) then you wouldn’t continue to spend so much time and energy denouncing them here, you’d be happily living within that ‘glorious’ freedom.
I mean, what else is there for you to say? Forget any idea of convincing anyone else, although you’re surely too bright to imagine that’s a possibility? Or are you saying it to fully convince yourself?
Perhaps, of course, you simply enjoy repeatedly airing the same views, or variations on the same old themes. If so, that could be suspiciously close to being a somewhat “narcissistic” practice itself (similarly, a predilection for overdoing ‘clever dick’ humour and dishing out carefully-wrought gratuitous insults).
As it is, it seems you have no grounds for any shreds of gratitude for whatever you might have received from being around teachers/masters these last few decades (apart, of course, for finally realising you’re able to ‘see through’ them all and that you don’t need any of them).
But if this isn’t true, then how about providing a list (if that’s not too grandiose a word) of such grounds for gratitude? You know, all in the interests of a balanced picture…Unless, of course, you’re too much of a ‘refuse-nik’ where ‘personal issues’ are concerned….
Gratitude? You crazy hippie.
They ought to be grateful to me and thousands of others like me for financing their lavish lifestyles, and feeding them adulation.
…And for listening to them drone on and on.
Who doesn’t like that? You should know SD.
Face it, you’re a dyed-in-the-wool cynic, Dominic. I recall you yourself ‘droning on and on’, in a rather know-it-all, ‘I can see through it all’ way about some socio-political ‘con-trick’ many years ago, on a train ride back to London after a day’s walk in Sussex. I then had the impression it was an intrinsic aspect of your personal make-up. Pretty useful at times too. Strange that I recall those single moments and little or nothing else of that day! You must have made an impression on my ever-so-naïve self…
Have you ever really investigated the roots of this cynicism?
You might find it’s connected to a wish to find a reason/excuse not to change, a justification for remaining the same, ie it’s at one significant level a ‘survival’ strategy. Which, of course, has its uses, it’s not totally redundant.
But I wonder why such cynics feel the need to broadcast their cynicism and to want to make it apply to everyone else? As I’ve said before, I regard this as your error – and I understand you’ve been receiving similar feedback recently.
Mulla Nasrudin was sitting in the audience once,
listening to some poor soul drone on until there was
nobody left but him.
“This is terrible, ” he said, looking out at the empty seats.
“I really don’t know what to say.”
“You could say good-bye,” the Mulla shouted up.
“Anyway,” the speaker continued, “it is nice of you to stay.”
“What nice!” the Mulla growled. “I’m the next speaker!”
The Discipline of Transcendence, Vol 4
Chapter #8
Chapter title: The disappearance of the magician
You’re hallucinating SD…”train rides with you” or “receiving similar feedback recently”. I have zero recollection.
Perhaps a smear campaign, or side effects from the spiritual prozac you’ve been taking.
There’s nothing cynical about calling out messianic cultic tarts like John de Shooter, who amounts to little more than deluded eye candy.
There are his sexual transgressions, leaving his wife and sleeping with two sisters, who are now suing him.
“Documents the sisters have filed in court state the three-way relationship the von Sass family seemed to cherish all these years was a painful farce. Benita claims in an affidavit that she “struggled emotionally and mentally coming to terms with this arrangement. I cried many hundreds of times over the years following, learning to cope with the daily psychological pain, and enduring what the defendant insisted came directly from God.”
She alleges that Mr. de Ruiter told her to “sexually submit to him,” saying that it was “God’s will.” He claimed to be “Christ on earth,” Benita’s affidavit reads, and “defying him was to defy truth, goodness and God. Accordingly, I obeyed and submitted.”
Mr. de Ruiter allegedly told her “that God had willed deviant sexual and other behaviours as well as relationships between himself and four married female followers. He was at that time [1998 or 1999] still having regular sex with two of them in addition to his wife and me,” reads Benita’s affidavit, filed in court.
She alleges that Mr. de Ruiter “currently, and at that time, publicly preached a message of marital fidelity and honesty. The Defendant explained to me that part of his ‘burden from God’ was to act against his own message and to violate his own marriage so as to prepare him inwardly for his upcoming battle with Satan.”
I heard that he also goes hunting for other game. What a dude!
Still if he’s as skilled at that as his stage act, then he must miss his target a lot.
As for mummy meera, Andrew Harvey who made her famous, recounts in his book ‘the direct path’, why he left her…
“In a committed relationship with another man for several years, Mother Meera told him to break with his partner and get married—to a woman—and “write a book claiming that her divine force had transformed me into a heterosexual”.
Perhaps your nom de plume, SD, should be the man who stares at goats… I mean gurus.
“Have you ever investigated the roots of this” eyeballing?
Perhaps it is due to early infant bonding disruption?
Not getting the loving reflection from your parents, and therefore seeking it outside in these idealized projections?
As for Osho on the ranch. Is it not fair to say he got mega rich (100 rollers and plenty of bling) by hard work…
everybody else’s that is, while he was “out of it”? Albeit he couldn’t have picked a worse management team to save his life.
All healthy signs of an enlightened master no doubt, who sees through all the tricks of ego, except his own.
Let’s face it he had a lot to be grateful for too.
Nothing cynical here , just plain facts.
Makes you wonder if the two neo-cons here are not OIF plants?
Keep taking the happy pills.
No, Dominic, there’s no hallucination happening here. I recall the ‘incident’ on the train (btw, there was quite a large group on that trip, not just you and me) and I’ve been reliably informed how your extreme views were roundly publically criticised recently. So no need for any further denial, thanks.
As for John de Ruiter, well, as in Shantam’s case re the Poona regime, I suggest we wait and see what happens in Court, rather than choose to believe implicitly in the as yet unchallenged evidence from these women. If you prefer to unquestioningly accept whatever they are alleged to have said then you are failing to apply the very stringent standards you like to think you reserve for spiritual teachers/gurus. Not that that bias would be likely to be of any concern to you, of course, with your obsessive, self-chosen and ultimately self-serving agenda to push.
Likewise the Andrew Harvey quote, neatly taken out of context, with no indication of how the words were actually delivered or the precise situation and context.
Your hostility to such as Meera, de Ruiter and Osho says much about where you’re actually at. You’ll clutch at anything, any little, unsubstantiated, random ‘straw’ to attempt to advance your case. While demonstrating a remarkable insensitivity to three beautiful (note I didn’t say ‘perfect’) beings.
As for your bullshine about me, well, pathetic is the most appropriate word that comes to mind.
Still, whatever you do, remember:
Don’t reveal anything truly ‘personal’, keep your vulnerability well under wraps. And above all, never admit to any shred of gratitude for what you’ve received from Life. After all, your whole current agenda (for what it’s worth) is at stake.
Given droning on at captive audiences is what hes been doing since forever,
hes not likely to remember anyone who he was droning on at, in any given situation..
Self indulgent, self important adolescent droning is the constant, the audience is an unimportant variable.
Arpana, arping on from the sidelines, never a contender.
A repetitive one-joke wonder, but for him a giant leap forwards.
Sancho Panza to sd’s Don Quixote fantasist.
At least your long term memory function, if true, is working well.
Though to try and engage with your rational mind about positions so irrationally held is a lost cause.
Whatever is offered up concerning the abuse and lack of integrity of these “beautiful beings” provokes dismissive denial, seemingly not cognisant or blind to the weight of facts and evidence.
This is the real cynicism.
Where there should be moral outrage and censure, there is tacit approval and bedazzled belief.
For an Alcoguruholic, the gurubottle is all that counts.
Yet you are all to eager to indulge in slanderous unsubstantiated hearsay against my good name.
What is the source and what are the specifics behind these lurid accusations?
Even for you, you have sunk to a new low and brought disrepute to the SN forum and its august body of contributors!
No, Mr D in D, I await the full picture, not unsubstantiated hearsay or reports taken out of context. You, on the other hand, simply relish the slightest hint of fallibility, ‘imperfection’ and, of course, especially of ‘scandal’ (or even ‘pseudo-scandal’), ie anything to prop up your self-serving agenda.
As for “slanderous, (note the comma) unsubstantiated hearsay” against your “good name”, well, you can bluster, deflect and deny all you like, but you and I both know the score on this, don’t we, eh?!
How deeply ironic that one so ready to condemn others by presenting second and third-hand evidence should so readily fail to recall very recent events from his own life! But that’s the self-serving obsessive for you, who follows the golden rule: Whatever you do, don’t implicate yourself, don’t show vulnerability, don’t ever reveal or even discuss anything too ‘personal’.
Thus, basically, for all your moralistic posturing, I find you fundamentally and wilfully dishonest.
“my sources are impeccable”
Clearly a typo. Should read,
“my sources are incapable.”
Furthermore you and arpana’s vitriolic predictive text seem to be favoured here, with videos from arpana that i would not wish upon my worst enemy.
While my balanced and ever civil discourse, with added humour for the benefit of all, are often being expunged or edited, which is like writing a novel and having the last two chapters ripped out.
I can empathize with Honeysucklerose, in saying that perhaps oshojihadis and some others are receiving preference, consciously or not.
A petition and internal investigation should be mounted forthwith!
MOD: BE ASSURED THAT AS FAR AS POSSIBLE ALL ARE TREATED EQUALLY HERE.
THERE IS NO SPECIAL PREFERENCE OR OTHERWISE ACCORDED TO ANYONE.
ANY RECENT POSSIBLY DUBIOUS VIDEOS FROM ARPANA OR ANYONE ELSE (INCLUDING YOU) HAVE BEEN DELETED EARLIER TODAY.
Don’t try to hit me.
Hit me!
Facts my dear boy, specifics.
Not this offensive tabloid journalism and innuendo.
Speak up or be deemed a pusillanimous bedwetter.
Really, I expected better of you!
Your pointy finger has three more pointing back at you.
Mod, don’t get me wrong.
I don’t mind any of it, just want a level playing field.
I think the links are usually entertaining and add another dimension.
Just as Osho was peppered with jokes and stories.
But one day moderation here allows graphics, the next it doesn’t, without much rhyme or reason, it appears.
It is baffling, frustrating and trivialises the energy people put in.
MOD: AS STATED EARLIER, ALL ARE TREATED EQUALLY HERE.
THE LINKS ARE TREATED ACCORDING TO OUR DISCRETION, ACCORDING TO THE GENERAL POLICY GUIDELINES OF THIS SITE (NOT NECESSARILY ACCORDING TO THE PREFERENCES OF ANY INDIVIDUAL POSTERS, HOWEVER OFTEN THEY MAY OR MAY NOT POST HERE).
Amazing capacity of human imagination is the base of Religions. Reading the texts one can imagine the aliveness of the characters who departed sometime thousands of years ago. It solaces the mind that “Their Jesus” is still around.
How so ever, we the Osho Sannyasins try to beat around the bush that we are not religion, we are not nations, we have no boundries; reality is totally different. It is not even movement; for movement also their needs some velocity, some action, some continuous change.
It is upto the wise people who are the faces and the spokespersons to decide, what they would like to be called, Sannyas Religion, Osho Cult or Osho´s pond( Sitting silenty, selling books, world change, We watch)
>> Reading the texts one can imagine the aliveness of the characters who departed sometime thousands of years ago.
If you met Osho you wouldn’t have to imagine “the aliveness of a character”… but what does it mean now?
Oshoism will not be a world religion. It had its chance and blew it. It will be a ’70s cult, that finished with the disciples in-fighting after the leader ‘left his body’.
On the surface, you might appear to be right, Vartan, although as I said, a number of eastern Europeans and Nepalese would beg to differ, at least in their cases.
But I suspect these things work ‘underground’ in mysterious ways. Osho touched so many people that his teachings, his truth, his very way of being have, through these hundreds of thousands (millions?) entered the human psyche and are thereby now a ‘resource’ from which present and future generations are and will be able to draw.
This will happen either consciously, people knowing him and his teachings through sannyasins or books and videos, or unconsciously, via a sense of ‘rightness’.
I should add that these aren’t my ideas, of course, they’re from another source, a particularly reliable one.
I’m afraid nobody gets the chance to be a global religion anymore. Religions were political weapons that built nations and empires, the rest is window dressing. Those job opportunities are long gone.
Everything else is called a cult.
Dom, never underestimate the power of charisma and the ability of the human mind to rearrange the dhamma in new and wonderful and never seen before ways.
A friend wrote from pune:” less people than ever, half of the western people are in black robes or workers ( not paying workers)”..you can see it in their pictures (even they are in maroon in them). It’s becoming.. or is a private resort.wow.
I just cannot see how Osho’s work has any relevance in the world today. Whatever the work was, it did not appear to enlighten many, considering the numbers involved.
There’s a new book out on Ron Hubbard called something like, “Let’s go sell ‘em a piece of the sky” … it feels like there was a lot of sky-selling going on in our parts of the wood too.
Perhaps, for a start, you might consult the eastern Europeans around Swami R and the Nepalese, Vartan?
Although it’s a long way from what seems to be ‘the early stages’ to ‘awakening’ and ‘enlightenment’, and anyone who’s ready for ‘the real thing’ would be well advised to seek out a genuine living teacher rather than a dead master. Or wait for him/her to mysteriously arrive….
I don’t have one, Dominic. Although I go to Mother Meera’s visits to London every six months or so, if I’m around at the time, and I’m currently enjoying listening to and reading John de Ruiter.
I’m a long way down the ‘spiritual food-chain’, although I acknowledge the help several teachers have given and think myself very fortunate in that respect.
What am I “manifesting”? In Paul Newman’s immortal words, “jus’ gettin’ through the day!”
And yet you promote the “genuine living teacher” schtick?
And you’re not the only one.
Do as I say not as I do, eh?
There’s a wallmart full of them out there, if you can be assed, and most are westerners these days.
Put your money where your mouth is.
Deep down you probably don’t believe in the whole merry-go-round either, and would rather hang on to memories of the dead guru’s society.
There’s a time for being with an alive teacher and a time for living without one – often enough forced upon the ‘pupil’ when the teacher dies. Ever thought of that, Dominic?
I feel no pressing need to find a living teacher, I have plenty to get on with regarding living whatever I’ve imbibed or feel is right for me from the many years of being with living masters.
You’re always looking to justify your scepticism, your cynicism, but this latest argument, par for your particular course, is specious, crude.
It’s all very well placing bets SD, as I suspect you get a greater thrill from sports than spiritual snake oil.
But you need some basic maths for that.
Trouble is you’re full of contradictions, so that when adding 2+2, you keep getting 3!
“Relevance” is rather personal.
Although the work is much fragmented and reduced, I think it still has power and benefits, especially for newbies. But it’s former glory as a sweeping global movement has been eclipsed. C’est la vie.
There’s quite a few ‘enlightened’ teachers out there who have been through the osho mill.
But I find the whole notion of enlightenment quite dubious and mythical anyway.
Papaji probably had the greatest McEnlightenment franchise going in recent times, though he still called all his emissaries leeches, that he just wanted to get rid of. And he said that nobody was worthy of his final teachings.
Ramana only named his mum and a cow as enlightened.
Deep down, enlightenment is a cut-throat business. Gurus seldom want to promote competition, equal status and losing customers to others.
Though a new openness and discussion seems to be emerging out of old school gurudom.
Kindergarten world view warfare?
The meaning bv? I like the nazi overtones.
Who does not feel some schadenfreude from all these cult meltdowns?
Piece of Sky for sale, open for viewing.
Can you say more?
Or are your data charges being racked up by the letter?
I like cryptic too. It’s like scrabble or a spy film.
I’ll get my enigma machine out.
In well-run family companies transition of management to the next generation takes 3-5 years, first they leave the every day involment and join board of managers.. In pune they are not even there, what self delusion. These are just basic, the most simple steps to protect the interest of the company’s development.
A well run family business… who are you kidding? Most family run businesses collapse when the originator passes away because the kids turn out to be asses. Osho was not a family business anyway. It was a one man band. And nobody I know, can ever whistle that tune.
Neither people in North Korea deserve that dick as an adminsitaror nor Osho movement deserves whimsical Chief Rabbi jayesh, who emerged as saviour of Osho when on the run.
People in North korea won´t be able to revolt unless outside support emerges to break the iron wall. People selling Osho books, Meditation techniques, running paper or net magazines cannot revolt, because they are whether too polite or full of guilt as during the time of distress, It was Jaeyesh and not they to come forward.
In any case, as long as two western disciples want to be the chief controllers, Sannyas will remain in Coma. I know many people are questioning and why they have spend precious years of their life in that “high promised low return” Ponzi scheme called Sannyas!
Two men were imprisoned. It was a full-moon night; both were standing near the window of their dark cell. The full moon was there. One was looking at the moon, and it was the rainy season — must have been like these days — and there was much water and mud just in front of the window. Dirty, and it was smelling
and stinking.
One man continued to look at the moon, the other continued to look at the mud. And the man who was looking at the mud, of course, was feeling very miserable. And the man who was looking at the moon was aflame, aglow; his face was reflecting the moon; his eyes were full of beauty. He had completely forgotten that he was imprisoned.
Osho.
A Sudden Clash of Thunder
Chapter #6
Chapter title: Life Undefined is What God is
Just the last year, on a street somewhere in a capital city, a woman, foreigner looking woman enjoying the newness of the city, its sounds, colours and smell still could not imagine, how come suddenly group of rowdy young men came from nowhere and started pinching her, molesting her, ripping her clothes off.
Now story can take two turns, it depends upon the mind-set, whether some brainy man were passing that road on the way to his guruji or some brave young heart were passing.
First version, The woman felt a ray of hope. There was a sound of coming car. Driver has seen from the distance of more than 250 meter. what kind of drama is happening on the road. He felt for a moment to horn, so that boys can run away and leave the woman, but another thought came, if they have the pistol, they will puncture the car, he will be also in difficulty and moreover, he will miss the discourse of Acharya Shree Shree.
Before coming closer to the scene of crime, he takes the turn into the side road. Shit, it will take him 7 minutes more to reach his destined place!
(I have no idea that Brainy man on the way to the discourse of his Acharya Shree has the thought, at least phone to the police control room)
Second version-
A man was really persuaded by his friends at least one time to go and listen Acharya Shree. They were saying , ” Acharya Shree simply blows the mind away.”
For the sake of courtesy, this man decided to visit the last evening of the series of talk. As he was not a follower type, so he was already getting late, therefore was driving with the high speed. He could not imagine his eyes, just few hundred meters ahead, a group of four five boys were simply dragging a woman away from the street. As a vivid newsreader, it was not difficult for him to imagine, what is the matter. As an act of spontaneity, he simply started hawking his horn at the maximum just fifty meters before the point of action, and in the meantime, he also called the police control room.
After all, for what we have the smart phones!
From the book
( God is not deaf and dumb)
PS_ Most probably future great orators will copy this story and tell in their version.
Good question shantam.
An enlightened guru is an A lister, whereas an Avatara is an A**** lister, (that’s 4 A’s!)
Not happy to be just a plain old run-of-the-mill guru with the rest of the enlightened rabble, they are god incarnated into human form on a mission for humanity. VERY special!
SD favours these… (no need to ask why) e,g. mummy meera, meher baba, and jean de rotter… who thinks he’s the son of god but with.. erm.. ‘fringe benefits’.
“SD favours these” – above all others? Oh, really? I wonder where you get such ‘inside information’…I suggest you demand a refund. Or hire another private investigator.
this day
which started for me at least in peace
(before data hackings as other stalking happenings on the streets then
challenged very balance of mine)
this day then
after looking into the chat here at THIS website
briefed me
so to say
that also at other desks
turbulences have been happening
what i perceive
like that has been happening before
ist
that a bunch of male contributors not contribute at all
BUT
are in an inconceivable fighting mood
on top
like always
the for (4) AAAA “theta
who
sorry to say gets so much energy from nearly everybody for his obnoxious
vain and kind of murderous statements
the whole then
like an open forensic asylum
and what to say
nothing can or could be detected from my side what the hell
is
all of yours concern
well that s how they go
some of these days…
today
a black tueday i would like to say
share
my sadness about that
i am not that able like arpana to recall good old sufi stories
but there is one i remembered when looking through the utterings
it goes with protagonists in ancient india (or somewhere else)
two
very very poor pays ants
who had nothing as possessions
had some phantasies while playing with and in the mud outside
starting to imagine the one that he owns a cow
the other that he owns some acre as of fertile land
and they were painting that in the mud
then the whole trouble began
a fence had to be painted as well
that the cow does not destroy the crops
and well it went on and on and on
that both of them who had been friends before
started fighting against each other
so much so
that they wanted to kill each other
they were brought to the court
there and then the whole story how it began
has been figured out
well
THEY survived because the villagers intervened
and the ridiculousness and the very much soul-touching side of the uproar
also were conceived after all
in the case
of some of here
getting into their gears
i am not sure how that can end
and that s my sadness
evening-prayer of mine
madhu
(ps- i don t read correcture… i just get it GO
sorry guys-)
THE WINNER SOWS HATRED
BECAUSE THE LOSER SUFFERS.
LET GO OF WINNING AND LOSING
AND FIND JOY.
How to find joy? Let your ambition disappear; ambition is the barrier. Ambition means an ego trip: “I want to be this, I want to be that — more money, more power, more prestige.”
But remember, Buddha says:
THE WINNER SOWS HATRED BECAUSE THE LOSER SUFFERS. LET GO OF WINNING AND LOSING AND FIND JOY.
If you want to find joy, forget about winning and losing. Life is a play, a game.
Play it beautifully, forget all about losing and winning. The real sportsman’s spirit is not that of winning or losing, it is not his real question. He enjoys playing; that is the real player. If you are playing to win, you will play with tension, anxiety. You are not concerned with the play itself, its joy and its mystery; you are more concerned with the outcome. This is not the right way to live in the world.
Live in the world without any idea of what is going to happen. Whether you are going to be a winner or a loser, it doesn’t matter. Death takes everything away. Whether you lose or win is immaterial. The only thing that matters, and has always been, is how you played the game. Did you enjoy it? — the game itself — then each moment is of joy. You never sacrifice the moment for the future.
Osho.
The Dhammapada: The Way of the Buddha, Vol 6
Chapter #5
Chapter title: Live in joy
Never Born, Never Died..
Who has coined this punch line?
New punchline for rebel alliance.
Never O’Byrne, Never O’Died.
It’s from the old testament and it was first said about a chap called Melchizedek.
As Bodhi says, the expression has been around for a wee while. Quite popular in the Advaita school also, which is why, I reckon, it is used in relation to Osho. He was big on the witness thing. Have you really reached the enlightenment throne witnessing? Apparently not as the word is that as long as one is aware of witnessing one hasn’t really reached. I’ve witnessed this first hand on several occasions, while I was witnessing myself witnessing, of course. So was Osho something or someone who was never born and never died? It is a tricky question. I reckon it is better to focus on oneself in regards to such matters. Are you in touch with something that will not be born and will not die? Who knows this? Who is reading this? Who wrote it. Why did Osho make up a meditation technique that requires one to shout who? who? who?. Was this just another one of his jokes.
Lokesh, You say you have witnessed the never born never died”. If you never born never died, who was it witnessing? What was remaining?
I am asking you to share, buddy? No sarcasm.
Sarcasm is not something I often indulge in. That is, generally speaking.
Newman, have you ever taken a powerful psychedelic? I ask because this is often what sparks up the fire in the heart for going on a spiritual search although, of course, not always. It certainly was the case for me.
At quite an earlier age I realised there was something amazing going on behind the stage of life and I wanted to understand more of it. At one point I was quite sure that Osho had the keys to such uderstanding. Today I am not so sure and besides Osho is now history. He was, I now realize, a kind of stepping stone.
So, over the years, I have occassionally stumbled into states that could be described as transcendental of the limited ego-self. I disagree with Bodhi when he says, ‘I cannot possibly see how the witness can be transcended, as it is a self-referential system.’ There is a certain state of awareness that needs nothing to refer to in order to know that it is. You either understand it or you don’t. To know it you have to die to everything and let go. Might sound simplistic and cliched but that is what it comes down to.
I have no wish to enter into intellectual discussions on the matter because one cannot understand what I am describing via the intellect.
By saying these things I don’t wish to appear special in any way…because I am not special. It just so happens that conditions were occasionally right for me to enter such states. Today I am a pretty uncosmic man…very down to earth one might say. I choose to be so as I see life as an opportunity to live and experience limitation. Without the mind and body we will once more be limitless for eternity. I don’t believe in personal reincarnation either.
Now, back to my studio, where paint and canvass await.
My understanding.
Dynamic was evolutionary, ‘hoo’ being the simian phase.
http://youtu.be/ptI7aUonZFk
Such name-calling seems a bit harsh even for old testament days.
Reminds me of some old school chums… Rogerizedek… Dickizedek… Willizedek…
Thanks BV.
I know from Sunday school!, that Melchizadek gave Abraham some kind of “okay” , so that sure is a long time ago.
But whilst not a Bible scholar cant remember anything about “never born, never died”. What source are you using, maybe Dead Sea Scrolls?
Would be interested to tie the reference down.
When I wrote that comment it was after a quick Google, because I knew it wasn’t an original statement. Looking a bit deeper now… two others also were ‘never born, never died’. Elijah and Enoch. For myself, it must have been Enoch that I remembered, because I read a lot about Enoch. Probably in the Apocrypha. One thing about the Hebrew ‘never born’ is that they are born ‘ready circumcised’…. “I wonder…”
May be those two Links are of interest for you, bv:
http://biblehub.com/hebrews/7-3.htm
http://www.letusreason.org/Doct16.htm
“Never born, never died, already circumcised.”
That’s a cut above the rest. Or is it a rip-off?
Don’t knock Enoch -
Knock. Knock.
Who’s there? Enoch.
Enoch who.
Enoch and Enoch, but nobody opens the door.
Advaita what so ever it is, seems to be the real calling for Lokesh.
I don’t mind when people go to Harrods to buy a glass of Nutella, but looks really fanatic, when they say, ” Harrods sells Nutella”.
Shantypants, the only thing calling me right now is a quiet and peaceful life….far from the maddening crowd.
Dom’s thought for the day ~
In a non-dual state or experience, there is only one seamless consciousness appearing as a multiplicity of forms. No you separate from any other.
No Osho or buddha outside of you.
Just like in a dream drama, full of separate characters, that appear very real while it’s going on. Then you wake up…… into a waking dream.
Witnessing is for beginners. I can’t see the point. Nor does it seem very doable. Honestly, can you witness anything for more than a second or two, before the mind skitters off. Ok if you try really really hard, but it’s still one part of the mind witnessing another part of the mind.
‘Who am I’ is an attempt to turn attention back on awareness itself, which is a step up I suppose.
But it’s all too much like work.
Really you’re already it, so what more is there to do but rest and relax as you are, in your very unenlightened state?
Aah now, doesn’t that feel better?
You’re sounding more like John de Ruiter with every new paragraph, Dominic!
I must have picked up something in all my years being a guru slut, perhaps a gtd (guruly transmitted disease) or John de Vampire bit me in the neck while I wasn’t looking, and I turned into one of the walking dead.
I cannot possibly see how the witness can be transcended, as it is a self-referential system. If you remove the witness, you automatically also remove the universe. When watching a good movie or reading a good book or listening to a good speaker (Osho?), the witness can be lost for a while. Is that why we like movies?
Not witnessing the witness basically means being lost in “the act”.
All that birth and death… shows that some are not comfortable with reality. (It’s tough, I know.)
PS Osho was lost in the act.
There’s nothing really to transcend.
Ultimately there’s only oneness or consciousness or whatever useless verbiage one wants to use.
The ‘witness’ as it is usually described and made into a practice like vipassana, is the attention faculty watching other parts of the mind.
It’s still dual. Just a game really.
You may be right that finally everything disappears into the ‘singularity.’
No guru, no method, no teacher, no planet, no-thing…
The true meaning of never born, never died.
Awareness and it’s manifestation are not separate.
Unfortunately it’s often presented like that, with eastern attitudes preferencing one over the other, resulting in life negative philosophies.
When the line between subject and object, inner and outer, collapses, the structure held together by language and thought (me and you) does too.
But don’t ask me how you do it!
Losing the witness or not losing the witness while watching the movie is part of a larger movie.
The body is for sure geared up for survival rather than mortality.
Anyway those who speak don’t know, isn’t it?
Nice to see bv back in the saddle again.
Olo ine endaxi.
I dont know whether all this talk of witnessing is actually confusing seekers.
I feel something much more simplified like saying anything that fosters a non anxious, light and humorous disposition, and leaves one in such a state – in at least some kind of semi continuous way, needs to be courted. Anything from ecotherapy to watching good movies…
Confusianism says… “knowledge is the path from cocky ignorance to miserable uncertainty.”
As you say there is much enjoyment to be had from the senses…
E.g. shantam gets pleasure from a comfortable pair of chuddies and surfing the dark internet, arpana from extensive transcribing and copypasting, and sd from eyeballing mutter meera.
Each to his own, live and let live.
But then there is the happiness that comes without any object, a subtle current from within… the one without a second, the indweller of the heart.
Instead of concentration I would rather say a word like resting or some such, implying non-doing and ease. Whereas concentration, suggests focusing and effort, useful for more task related activities.
As for guru slut, properly speaking there isn’t an equivalent word for a man. Sorry ladies!
A man it appears just can’t have, too much sex.
Perhaps a guru stud, casanova, or gigolo then.
>> I don’t know whether all this talk of witnessing is actually confusing seekers.
What seekers need are role models, and not talk. Perhaps we are fortunate in that we have Osho to point to.
Dom ( Doom): ” Where is the monkey, where is the monkey , hee hee hee hoo hoo hoo ”
Its not monkey. Its the snake. (:- haa haa haa hoo hoo hoo..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shesha
Worshipping hiisss snake again. Don’t get your nagas in a twist.
Strangely enough the one and only time I had a non-dual (non-drug) experience, I did feel energy shooting up my spine.
Maybe they did know what they were on about!
From wickedpedia…
Shesha, the pure hissness of being, “is generally depicted with a massive form … on the ocean of milk”.
Don’t blame me, I didn’t write this stuff.
Thankgawd , for electric foot massagers these days !
I like the emphasis from Lokesh, and even Dom if I understand him right in this string to concentrate within.
It doesn’t matter about Osho, or in Dom’s case his multiplicity of gurus when he was a guru slut, all that can ever matter is one’s own interiority.
Witnessing is observing the inner landscape without Judgement, and the inner judge is the barrier to witnessing, and in the early stages is necessary to take note of judging the judging as gently as possible, become aware of the judge and the judging of the judge
I also wonder if a highly developed conscience isn’t a precursor to witnessing. The conscience all ready watches, but judges as well.
dear bodhi vartan and yes – also dear sannyas news moderators
i really loved this morning the apparanttly beside the issue
this “the one” quote remembering an old myth (may be as precise also human being) called then
“melchiizedech”
i love surprises – very much so
that s why
did a little google-ling
what i loved about this
historical or non historical ?human being (a king)
is that the happening so to say is also connected (mentioned in the new testament as well – as also may be “global” aftereffects then)
that something came out of fashion and that is
NO ritual murder on humans any more for religious purposes
and yes
WE ALL KNOW !
don t we ? that the so called human t o d a y
seams to go backward up to stone age time
when we are listening to everyday news and terror with a lot of completely innocent people killed as well
sometimes even clearly
camouflaged as “religious” acts
i also sensed mentioning an myth and its effects
in an mysterious healing preventively may be bad aftereffects
to look at a satiral drawing and post of osho and vedanta tribes
in the background realities of really shameful court happenings
if they then happen or not
but
up comings are up comings
i loved what kavita shared concerning this matter …. black english humor may be ????
i am not able to take it THAT easy…
so i loved also what chetna shared concerning that matter
knowing
that may be shantam prem as an insider
of indian ways to deal with this and that
will take it all…… if you know what i mean…
aahhh
just now
in the here now . de
i had as an evening tv gift
to remember franz kafka and his
in a way wise foreseeing about the bugging games
he could t digest ist
soooo sorry-
played not only ba the states organs but played also by so called friends
mysterious enough
may be
time for mystic rose laughter
that gave to me the last hint a culture hint
just to poste
it
all
or at least some of that
what was on my mind-and-more-TODAY
so
beloveds,
may we all have a beautiful evening and a good night too
love
madhu
http://i.imgur.com/ShW3j.jpg
Dearest madhu, keep it short and meaningful please.
Pretend you are writing to Osho.
I am confused. Can you please tell me, is the witness that which is never born, never dies?
If you want to know the real answer to that Bruce, you will have to meditate, and even then you wont know soon, if ever.
For me: ‘no’ it’s not ‘never born, never dies. Witness to me is equal to awareness. We witnessing what has been realized. It penetrates life permanent, silence is a result of assurance and surrender.
However, the significance of ‘Grace’ is magical.
I’d concentrate on who or what it is that feels confused for a start. That should keep you busy for a while, Bruce.
“The witness” is the one that can balance the most angels on a pinhead.
He is not real. The concept is figurative and has been created as a mental exercise… because most ppl “act differently when being watched” you create an internal “watcher” to hopefully change your behaviour towards something better.
Check out the term Cartesian Theatre
http://www.susanblackmore.co.uk/Books/Consciousness/illust2.jpg
What is never born and never dies is the consciousness that the brain plugs into. But looking for it inside the head is like looking for the TV presenter inside the TV.
Stay with the confusion and wanting to know.
What does your own guidance tell you?
Seems to mean different things to different people.
In osholand it generally meant noticing what was going on, but still referred to you as a person.
In papajiland, the interest was in the ‘who’ that is doing the noticing, that is, the awareness itself. Thus ‘never born, never dies.’
Personally I never liked the word.
Rather cold and reminiscent of a legal drama.
Have you been watching Perry Mason reruns?
Cross-examining the witness?
I’m in the witness protection programme.
Still, not guilty. As god is my witness.
Ally Mcbeal was my all-time favourite.
Cross-examining the witness?
Is this an oblique referance to JC?
Are you making a cross-claim?
In this case we have no habeas corpus, only some witless witness oral testimony.
Hopefully, if biblical chippies were doing their job properly, with sufficient nails and 2 by 4 from the Jerusalem DIY superstore, it would have been right angles rather than oblique.
Personally, I would have preferred a hung jewry to a cross-examination.
No, Jehova.
good morning – bruce
you are confused ? really ???
the answer to your question you can only find in yourself
what i am finding helpful is to have a walk outside (alone)
or to clean some shelves or some other neglected spaces in the apartment i am living in
anyway
everybody has to find his or her unique way
today s morning here milky-white-grey
rain drops are dancing
i had a nice breakfast
that all
then the opportunity to give a hello to some unknown fellow traveler on a virtual caravanserai
that s nice too
so thank you for this
madhu
Don’t worry, Bruce. It is Madhu who is confused. He actually believes that someone out there might be interested in his comments.
Lokesh, Madhu is a woman!
Using your own high forensic standards, how can you be sure SD?
Perhaps M. is another CIA operative, lulling us all?
Misty poesy and love of housework as evidence, wouldn’t stand up in a court of law, and shamelessly reinforce gender stereotyping.
Yes, SD, I know, but she’s a man trapped in a women’s body and I just wanted to aknowledge that. Have you no compassion?
Internet is everywhere, so i could not resist this one. What is a person quoting osho, not having his own words at all, like never? It’s a playback actor..and the oscar goes to the one and only pune meditation resort facebook .
One day, I had a customer with a punctured bicycle. As I remember he was a Gora man with funky Om trouser.
He told me to watch and witness where the needle has made the hole in the tube. After the work I told him, ” 10 Rupees baba.”
He was happy and offered Ganesha Biri. I said, ” No baba, when I smoke, it is only Marlboro.”
He laughed, ” You good for watching.”
I said, “What watching? Not many punctured bicycle baba. All have now bikes.”
Gora man said, ” Then watch the traffic. Watch the breathing, watch your thoughts, watch your desire to smoke Marlboro.”
I thought, these people from rich countries can afford to watch. I think many of them have never worked. Only holidays.
I think I have not seen many Gora people any more. Their guru is now every where!
( Gossips with a Pune Cycle mechanic)
That’s probably your best-ever post, Shantam. Well done, sir!
My favorite Shantypants comments are the ones when he was castigating the white skins, for it was there that he showed his true colours.
White people are really bad. They invented pharmaceutical combinations. indigenous combinations were replaced. Human beings started living longer and healthy, and therefore population in the Banana and mango democracies multiplied.
Really white people are very bad!
When it is due, I won´t hesitate to give credit to any one, so much so, I will die peacefully after the shot from an M.D rather than trusting some Aurevedic thing at the time of need.
I don´t dislike white people. Their women are the best Tantra teachers. One can ogle their boobs while reciting OOMMMMM!
Male indian spirituality boils down to being a sex pest, devotional nutter or both. What’s up with that?
lokesh (17. january 5.46 pm)
lokesh
too much dope in your brain
long lasting aftereffects i guess
even if you may now are clean
madhu
So you oughta recant Loki.
Woman in a woman’s body… defo.
Pass the bong…
Madhu, post your selfie!
A photo speak thousands times more than the words.
thanks
Shantam
PS-Names of the writers come automatically, so no need to type the self name.
dear shantam prem as well as all the others here
my IT -technical abilities go below zero so to say
i know to speak and i know to write
but i don t know to trick the IT way -nor to compile and sometimes i don t know how to handle the computing machinery
the reason that inspite of my longing to commune to friends and fellowtravellors as a sannyasin took so long to realize (?)
has been this my mentioned IT-technical inability as equipment
as well as the fact that i have been and i am quite disillusioned from the very beginning towards the HYPE of virtual enter-info -tainments
or other words say
the possible misuse issues in these realms
to acknowledge that
to be aware of that
popped up in me when masses of people walked up in the streets
blind and deaf and not at all present
glued to theire electronic equipments
people who got/are getting drowned in their “IT-almighty” phantasies by their simple technical abilities while lacking for my eye side very much integrity and maturity
there are simply too too many
my full name posted happened by my inability to cope with technics so to say
believe it or not that has not been my intention
what the posting of a photo concerns
neither i am capable -nor -
as the experience with rotten chauvinismus as it happened with/and from lokesh just now
also on this caravanserai site ( a sannyas dedicated site?)
shows
that photos would t in any way solve the problem that the amount of respect sometimes here is also below zero
and i am not as cool as some guys here seem to be
my compassion
with lots of females
entrapped in lots of male bodies here (quoting lokesh in vice versa terms)
is great
so let us see how long my compassion for myself
allows me to be part of respondings
i simply don t know
we ll see
good morning !
it s foggy and cold winter morning here
and i woke up very early
and found myself sitting here to post to you all and shantam and lokesh in particular
that s the way it is
i confess just now
i may be glad that you are not here
it may be that i could t take some of the roughness happening
as well as dishonest foul-plays
madhu
And Madwho’s word for today will be ‘concise’.
I was wondering before if no one would be seeing Madhu in Crying Game movie as Dil, the transvestite. But Russian version.
More like Olga in Kornatosvski’s Storm My Ramparts.
As the day of Osho´s leaving the body is just few hours away, dominic you have really coined a new punch line, factual than the previous one.
New punch line for rebel alliance.
Never O’Byrne, Never O’Died.
Soon we need a Sannyastwitter so we can all keep tweeting !
beloveds
neither i copy nor paste it addressing you that way
the best i can say
i take it as a modus “operandi” and sometimes also i feel it that way
like the child s vision
“you are here…. i am here.. and that s enough… of opportunity”
today s getting with my legs out of the bed
took me four hours by ever now and then giving it a try
now
it s done (long shower included)
woke up the very early morning
when it was foggy and very dark outside and the one and only little bird
in the court yard has been singing his or her song
then abruptly stopped
and an even deeper silence then
it is sunday
the special offer of today s
reminding
—-we are all blessed ones—-
YES -
ALL -
that means also the ever fighting ones
also the peepshow affine peepers
also the some secret services gangsters
yes even the data robbers who are into stealing identities and more
by data phishings
i n c l u d e d
yes these kind of lists are long as you know
and i know it too
and yes
it s quite a challenge to be blessed this way -
in the misty fogs of the morning
the inner cloud watchings of mine
having had also more a misty flow than any contoured shape
…..
the flute player master hariprasad chaurasia came by
with his peaces
“call of the valley”
“the valley recalls”
AND
“meditative romance”
and i remembered the story i read in an interview (with the musician himself)
that he was a childhood friend of osho and that they used to swim together in the river near by
wild and free (that s nugget for lokesh)
then the misty fog
sent me into a documentary about buddhist monastery and the scene
that in the courtyard
the young monks were in the debating exercise
throwing their arms
clutching their hands
and the bodies like bamboos swaying
and yet a discipline in it all (in pair-wise settings)
and the most important
the LAUGHTER
AFTER
and then these (more then) seen pictures faded again
still enjoying my reluctance to get up
but what to do
bowed down to get up
left leg needs to exercise walking
very much so as i didn t do anything yesterday- not shopping nor walking nor anything remarkable
just a little cut-room peeping if you are still there and how is THAT going….
coffee ist out (finished)
beloveds
have a beautiful day
and me
have a beautiful day
too
madhu
Notice-
Sannyasnews bloggers won´t writing today.
They are participating in meditation activities in their respective cities.
To remind our esteemed readers, exactly on this day of 19th January, Osho left the body ca 2014BC.
I sometimes feel when visiting here this something: rather a Paulian thing, but needs to be said:
“Whether you talk for me or against me, you have to talk about me. You cannot forget me. And when you are talking about me, even if you are talking against me, you have not left me yet. I am still very much alive in you. In fact you are talking against me just to get rid of me but you cannot get rid of me. The more you talk against me, the deeper I will be going in you.”
A specious and narcisstic argument that did Osho no favours in the long run.
I am ‘against’ many things… meat-eating, islam, mass immigration, child abuse, political correctness. Are we all Priests or Politicians devotees for talking ‘against’ their corruption?
Anyways, none of us are really talking about Osho the person, who we never knew, but our idea of him and his legacy, warts and all.
Which is liberating, because it was difficult if not impossible to do so at the time.
However, Osho’s statement is self-evidently true, Dominic, your case being a good example. Common sense would indicate that if you were as really “free” of Osho (and any other teacher or master) then you wouldn’t continue to spend so much time and energy denouncing them here, you’d be happily living within that ‘glorious’ freedom.
I mean, what else is there for you to say? Forget any idea of convincing anyone else, although you’re surely too bright to imagine that’s a possibility? Or are you saying it to fully convince yourself?
Perhaps, of course, you simply enjoy repeatedly airing the same views, or variations on the same old themes. If so, that could be suspiciously close to being a somewhat “narcissistic” practice itself (similarly, a predilection for overdoing ‘clever dick’ humour and dishing out carefully-wrought gratuitous insults).
As it is, it seems you have no grounds for any shreds of gratitude for whatever you might have received from being around teachers/masters these last few decades (apart, of course, for finally realising you’re able to ‘see through’ them all and that you don’t need any of them).
But if this isn’t true, then how about providing a list (if that’s not too grandiose a word) of such grounds for gratitude? You know, all in the interests of a balanced picture…Unless, of course, you’re too much of a ‘refuse-nik’ where ‘personal issues’ are concerned….
PS: Ladbrokes are currently offering 1000/1 Dominic produces such a ‘gratitude list’.
But if you’re looking for a bet with a very decent chance (albeit with a poor return) then you can get 1/100 (ie a penny for a pound) for a double:
1/ That he comes up with another clever little piece about how what’s true for him is definitely true for everyone else
2/ That anyone who disagrees with him just has to be rather, er, ‘stupid’.
Gratitude? You crazy hippie.
They ought to be grateful to me and thousands of others like me for financing their lavish lifestyles, and feeding them adulation.
…And for listening to them drone on and on.
Who doesn’t like that? You should know SD.
Face it, you’re a dyed-in-the-wool cynic, Dominic. I recall you yourself ‘droning on and on’, in a rather know-it-all, ‘I can see through it all’ way about some socio-political ‘con-trick’ many years ago, on a train ride back to London after a day’s walk in Sussex. I then had the impression it was an intrinsic aspect of your personal make-up. Pretty useful at times too. Strange that I recall those single moments and little or nothing else of that day! You must have made an impression on my ever-so-naïve self…
Have you ever really investigated the roots of this cynicism?
You might find it’s connected to a wish to find a reason/excuse not to change, a justification for remaining the same, ie it’s at one significant level a ‘survival’ strategy. Which, of course, has its uses, it’s not totally redundant.
But I wonder why such cynics feel the need to broadcast their cynicism and to want to make it apply to everyone else? As I’ve said before, I regard this as your error – and I understand you’ve been receiving similar feedback recently.
Mulla Nasrudin was sitting in the audience once,
listening to some poor soul drone on until there was
nobody left but him.
“This is terrible, ” he said, looking out at the empty seats.
“I really don’t know what to say.”
“You could say good-bye,” the Mulla shouted up.
“Anyway,” the speaker continued, “it is nice of you to stay.”
“What nice!” the Mulla growled. “I’m the next speaker!”
The Discipline of Transcendence, Vol 4
Chapter #8
Chapter title: The disappearance of the magician
You’re hallucinating SD…”train rides with you” or “receiving similar feedback recently”. I have zero recollection.
Perhaps a smear campaign, or side effects from the spiritual prozac you’ve been taking.
There’s nothing cynical about calling out messianic cultic tarts like John de Shooter, who amounts to little more than deluded eye candy.
There are his sexual transgressions, leaving his wife and sleeping with two sisters, who are now suing him.
“Documents the sisters have filed in court state the three-way relationship the von Sass family seemed to cherish all these years was a painful farce. Benita claims in an affidavit that she “struggled emotionally and mentally coming to terms with this arrangement. I cried many hundreds of times over the years following, learning to cope with the daily psychological pain, and enduring what the defendant insisted came directly from God.”
She alleges that Mr. de Ruiter told her to “sexually submit to him,” saying that it was “God’s will.” He claimed to be “Christ on earth,” Benita’s affidavit reads, and “defying him was to defy truth, goodness and God. Accordingly, I obeyed and submitted.”
Mr. de Ruiter allegedly told her “that God had willed deviant sexual and other behaviours as well as relationships between himself and four married female followers. He was at that time [1998 or 1999] still having regular sex with two of them in addition to his wife and me,” reads Benita’s affidavit, filed in court.
She alleges that Mr. de Ruiter “currently, and at that time, publicly preached a message of marital fidelity and honesty. The Defendant explained to me that part of his ‘burden from God’ was to act against his own message and to violate his own marriage so as to prepare him inwardly for his upcoming battle with Satan.”
I heard that he also goes hunting for other game. What a dude!
Still if he’s as skilled at that as his stage act, then he must miss his target a lot.
As for mummy meera, Andrew Harvey who made her famous, recounts in his book ‘the direct path’, why he left her…
“In a committed relationship with another man for several years, Mother Meera told him to break with his partner and get married—to a woman—and “write a book claiming that her divine force had transformed me into a heterosexual”.
Perhaps your nom de plume, SD, should be the man who stares at goats… I mean gurus.
“Have you ever investigated the roots of this” eyeballing?
Perhaps it is due to early infant bonding disruption?
Not getting the loving reflection from your parents, and therefore seeking it outside in these idealized projections?
As for Osho on the ranch. Is it not fair to say he got mega rich (100 rollers and plenty of bling) by hard work…
everybody else’s that is, while he was “out of it”? Albeit he couldn’t have picked a worse management team to save his life.
All healthy signs of an enlightened master no doubt, who sees through all the tricks of ego, except his own.
Let’s face it he had a lot to be grateful for too.
Nothing cynical here , just plain facts.
Makes you wonder if the two neo-cons here are not OIF plants?
Keep taking the happy pills.
No, Dominic, there’s no hallucination happening here. I recall the ‘incident’ on the train (btw, there was quite a large group on that trip, not just you and me) and I’ve been reliably informed how your extreme views were roundly publically criticised recently. So no need for any further denial, thanks.
As for John de Ruiter, well, as in Shantam’s case re the Poona regime, I suggest we wait and see what happens in Court, rather than choose to believe implicitly in the as yet unchallenged evidence from these women. If you prefer to unquestioningly accept whatever they are alleged to have said then you are failing to apply the very stringent standards you like to think you reserve for spiritual teachers/gurus. Not that that bias would be likely to be of any concern to you, of course, with your obsessive, self-chosen and ultimately self-serving agenda to push.
Likewise the Andrew Harvey quote, neatly taken out of context, with no indication of how the words were actually delivered or the precise situation and context.
Your hostility to such as Meera, de Ruiter and Osho says much about where you’re actually at. You’ll clutch at anything, any little, unsubstantiated, random ‘straw’ to attempt to advance your case. While demonstrating a remarkable insensitivity to three beautiful (note I didn’t say ‘perfect’) beings.
As for your bullshine about me, well, pathetic is the most appropriate word that comes to mind.
Still, whatever you do, remember:
Don’t reveal anything truly ‘personal’, keep your vulnerability well under wraps. And above all, never admit to any shred of gratitude for what you’ve received from Life. After all, your whole current agenda (for what it’s worth) is at stake.
SD.
‘Droning on.’
That’s confusing KUMBAYA.
Given droning on at captive audiences is what hes been doing since forever,
hes not likely to remember anyone who he was droning on at, in any given situation..
Self indulgent, self important adolescent droning is the constant, the audience is an unimportant variable.
Arpana, arping on from the sidelines, never a contender.
A repetitive one-joke wonder, but for him a giant leap forwards.
Sancho Panza to sd’s Don Quixote fantasist.
(MOD: SOME EDITING HERE)
“I’ve been reliably informed how your extreme views were roundly publically criticised recently.”
“Oh, really? I wonder where you get such ‘inside information’…I suggest you demand a refund. Or hire another private investigator.”
Perhaps you should be called by another name here then…
How about ‘Dominic Denial’? Or maybe more appropriate: ‘Dominic In Denial’?
Sounds about right to me, esp as my sources are impeccable.
At least your long term memory function, if true, is working well.
Though to try and engage with your rational mind about positions so irrationally held is a lost cause.
Whatever is offered up concerning the abuse and lack of integrity of these “beautiful beings” provokes dismissive denial, seemingly not cognisant or blind to the weight of facts and evidence.
This is the real cynicism.
Where there should be moral outrage and censure, there is tacit approval and bedazzled belief.
For an Alcoguruholic, the gurubottle is all that counts.
Yet you are all to eager to indulge in slanderous unsubstantiated hearsay against my good name.
What is the source and what are the specifics behind these lurid accusations?
Even for you, you have sunk to a new low and brought disrepute to the SN forum and its august body of contributors!
No, Mr D in D, I await the full picture, not unsubstantiated hearsay or reports taken out of context. You, on the other hand, simply relish the slightest hint of fallibility, ‘imperfection’ and, of course, especially of ‘scandal’ (or even ‘pseudo-scandal’), ie anything to prop up your self-serving agenda.
As for “slanderous, (note the comma) unsubstantiated hearsay” against your “good name”, well, you can bluster, deflect and deny all you like, but you and I both know the score on this, don’t we, eh?!
How deeply ironic that one so ready to condemn others by presenting second and third-hand evidence should so readily fail to recall very recent events from his own life! But that’s the self-serving obsessive for you, who follows the golden rule: Whatever you do, don’t implicate yourself, don’t show vulnerability, don’t ever reveal or even discuss anything too ‘personal’.
Thus, basically, for all your moralistic posturing, I find you fundamentally and wilfully dishonest.
“my sources are impeccable”
Clearly a typo. Should read,
“my sources are incapable.”
Furthermore you and arpana’s vitriolic predictive text seem to be favoured here, with videos from arpana that i would not wish upon my worst enemy.
While my balanced and ever civil discourse, with added humour for the benefit of all, are often being expunged or edited, which is like writing a novel and having the last two chapters ripped out.
I can empathize with Honeysucklerose, in saying that perhaps oshojihadis and some others are receiving preference, consciously or not.
A petition and internal investigation should be mounted forthwith!
MOD: BE ASSURED THAT AS FAR AS POSSIBLE ALL ARE TREATED EQUALLY HERE.
THERE IS NO SPECIAL PREFERENCE OR OTHERWISE ACCORDED TO ANYONE.
ANY RECENT POSSIBLY DUBIOUS VIDEOS FROM ARPANA OR ANYONE ELSE (INCLUDING YOU) HAVE BEEN DELETED EARLIER TODAY.
Don’t try to hit me.
Hit me!
Facts my dear boy, specifics.
Not this offensive tabloid journalism and innuendo.
Speak up or be deemed a pusillanimous bedwetter.
Really, I expected better of you!
Your pointy finger has three more pointing back at you.
Mod, don’t get me wrong.
I don’t mind any of it, just want a level playing field.
I think the links are usually entertaining and add another dimension.
Just as Osho was peppered with jokes and stories.
But one day moderation here allows graphics, the next it doesn’t, without much rhyme or reason, it appears.
It is baffling, frustrating and trivialises the energy people put in.
MOD: AS STATED EARLIER, ALL ARE TREATED EQUALLY HERE.
THE LINKS ARE TREATED ACCORDING TO OUR DISCRETION, ACCORDING TO THE GENERAL POLICY GUIDELINES OF THIS SITE (NOT NECESSARILY ACCORDING TO THE PREFERENCES OF ANY INDIVIDUAL POSTERS, HOWEVER OFTEN THEY MAY OR MAY NOT POST HERE).
dominic says:
>> Just as Osho was peppered with jokes and stories.
Osho was peppered?
Shocking!
Amazing capacity of human imagination is the base of Religions. Reading the texts one can imagine the aliveness of the characters who departed sometime thousands of years ago. It solaces the mind that “Their Jesus” is still around.
How so ever, we the Osho Sannyasins try to beat around the bush that we are not religion, we are not nations, we have no boundries; reality is totally different. It is not even movement; for movement also their needs some velocity, some action, some continuous change.
It is upto the wise people who are the faces and the spokespersons to decide, what they would like to be called, Sannyas Religion, Osho Cult or Osho´s pond( Sitting silenty, selling books, world change, We watch)
>> Reading the texts one can imagine the aliveness of the characters who departed sometime thousands of years ago.
If you met Osho you wouldn’t have to imagine “the aliveness of a character”… but what does it mean now?
Oshoism will not be a world religion. It had its chance and blew it. It will be a ’70s cult, that finished with the disciples in-fighting after the leader ‘left his body’.
On the surface, you might appear to be right, Vartan, although as I said, a number of eastern Europeans and Nepalese would beg to differ, at least in their cases.
But I suspect these things work ‘underground’ in mysterious ways. Osho touched so many people that his teachings, his truth, his very way of being have, through these hundreds of thousands (millions?) entered the human psyche and are thereby now a ‘resource’ from which present and future generations are and will be able to draw.
This will happen either consciously, people knowing him and his teachings through sannyasins or books and videos, or unconsciously, via a sense of ‘rightness’.
I should add that these aren’t my ideas, of course, they’re from another source, a particularly reliable one.
I’m afraid nobody gets the chance to be a global religion anymore. Religions were political weapons that built nations and empires, the rest is window dressing. Those job opportunities are long gone.
Everything else is called a cult.
Good post, Dominic.
Dom, never underestimate the power of charisma and the ability of the human mind to rearrange the dhamma in new and wonderful and never seen before ways.
A friend wrote from pune:” less people than ever, half of the western people are in black robes or workers ( not paying workers)”..you can see it in their pictures (even they are in maroon in them). It’s becoming.. or is a private resort.wow.
I just cannot see how Osho’s work has any relevance in the world today. Whatever the work was, it did not appear to enlighten many, considering the numbers involved.
There’s a new book out on Ron Hubbard called something like, “Let’s go sell ‘em a piece of the sky” … it feels like there was a lot of sky-selling going on in our parts of the wood too.
Perhaps, for a start, you might consult the eastern Europeans around Swami R and the Nepalese, Vartan?
Although it’s a long way from what seems to be ‘the early stages’ to ‘awakening’ and ‘enlightenment’, and anyone who’s ready for ‘the real thing’ would be well advised to seek out a genuine living teacher rather than a dead master. Or wait for him/her to mysteriously arrive….
SD, for some the message is enough but for some others, the messenger is important too. You are one of the others. But it’s ok.
I’ve made lots of ‘Nepalise’ friends, and any friend of Osho is a friend of mine and I don’t care which Osho “”book”" they are reading.
As for Swami R… “he” might be an ass but he probably has some really nice people… round the edges.
Sd who exactly is your “genuine living teacher” consort these days and what are you “manifesting” together?
I don’t have one, Dominic. Although I go to Mother Meera’s visits to London every six months or so, if I’m around at the time, and I’m currently enjoying listening to and reading John de Ruiter.
I’m a long way down the ‘spiritual food-chain’, although I acknowledge the help several teachers have given and think myself very fortunate in that respect.
What am I “manifesting”? In Paul Newman’s immortal words, “jus’ gettin’ through the day!”
And yet you promote the “genuine living teacher” schtick?
And you’re not the only one.
Do as I say not as I do, eh?
There’s a wallmart full of them out there, if you can be assed, and most are westerners these days.
Put your money where your mouth is.
Deep down you probably don’t believe in the whole merry-go-round either, and would rather hang on to memories of the dead guru’s society.
There’s a time for being with an alive teacher and a time for living without one – often enough forced upon the ‘pupil’ when the teacher dies. Ever thought of that, Dominic?
I feel no pressing need to find a living teacher, I have plenty to get on with regarding living whatever I’ve imbibed or feel is right for me from the many years of being with living masters.
You’re always looking to justify your scepticism, your cynicism, but this latest argument, par for your particular course, is specious, crude.
PS: Bet 2 of my advised ‘double’ already landed!
Matter of time before bet 1 comes in (see 12.06pm post)….
It’s all very well placing bets SD, as I suspect you get a greater thrill from sports than spiritual snake oil.
But you need some basic maths for that.
Trouble is you’re full of contradictions, so that when adding 2+2, you keep getting 3!
Just fatuously foolish crap, Dominic, not even ‘clever’. Try harder next time!
“Relevance” is rather personal.
Although the work is much fragmented and reduced, I think it still has power and benefits, especially for newbies. But it’s former glory as a sweeping global movement has been eclipsed. C’est la vie.
There’s quite a few ‘enlightened’ teachers out there who have been through the osho mill.
But I find the whole notion of enlightenment quite dubious and mythical anyway.
Papaji probably had the greatest McEnlightenment franchise going in recent times, though he still called all his emissaries leeches, that he just wanted to get rid of. And he said that nobody was worthy of his final teachings.
Ramana only named his mum and a cow as enlightened.
Deep down, enlightenment is a cut-throat business. Gurus seldom want to promote competition, equal status and losing customers to others.
Though a new openness and discussion seems to be emerging out of old school gurudom.
>>Although the work is much fragmented and reduced, I think it still has power and benefits, especially for newbies.
Kindergarten Weltanschauungskrieg
Kindergarten world view warfare?
The meaning bv? I like the nazi overtones.
Who does not feel some schadenfreude from all these cult meltdowns?
Piece of Sky for sale, open for viewing.
>> The meaning bv?
Schoolyard Terrorism
Can you say more?
Or are your data charges being racked up by the letter?
I like cryptic too. It’s like scrabble or a spy film.
I’ll get my enigma machine out.
In well-run family companies transition of management to the next generation takes 3-5 years, first they leave the every day involment and join board of managers.. In pune they are not even there, what self delusion. These are just basic, the most simple steps to protect the interest of the company’s development.
A well run family business… who are you kidding? Most family run businesses collapse when the originator passes away because the kids turn out to be asses. Osho was not a family business anyway. It was a one man band. And nobody I know, can ever whistle that tune.
Neither people in North Korea deserve that dick as an adminsitaror nor Osho movement deserves whimsical Chief Rabbi jayesh, who emerged as saviour of Osho when on the run.
People in North korea won´t be able to revolt unless outside support emerges to break the iron wall. People selling Osho books, Meditation techniques, running paper or net magazines cannot revolt, because they are whether too polite or full of guilt as during the time of distress, It was Jaeyesh and not they to come forward.
In any case, as long as two western disciples want to be the chief controllers, Sannyas will remain in Coma. I know many people are questioning and why they have spend precious years of their life in that “high promised low return” Ponzi scheme called Sannyas!
Two men were imprisoned. It was a full-moon night; both were standing near the window of their dark cell. The full moon was there. One was looking at the moon, and it was the rainy season — must have been like these days — and there was much water and mud just in front of the window. Dirty, and it was smelling
and stinking.
One man continued to look at the moon, the other continued to look at the mud. And the man who was looking at the mud, of course, was feeling very miserable. And the man who was looking at the moon was aflame, aglow; his face was reflecting the moon; his eyes were full of beauty. He had completely forgotten that he was imprisoned.
Osho.
A Sudden Clash of Thunder
Chapter #6
Chapter title: Life Undefined is What God is
“It is not the consciousness of men that determines their existence but their social existence that determines their consciousness.”
Karl Marx
Shantam, it was Osho himself who gave the reins to Jayesh because He wanted His organization to go in a particular way.
Trust.
ARPANA (20.january at6.00 pm9
arpana , friend
no laughter
no moon
no mud
just a little bliss attic
and then
SEE
the urge to say
thank you so much
about getting a “stick” in the “stuck”…
ash this
thank you for posting
madhu
and PS for you -
arpana
sorry for the many bad spellings and writing mistakes
it s not my mother tongue and IT just took me over ?
madhu
i ve
Just the last year, on a street somewhere in a capital city, a woman, foreigner looking woman enjoying the newness of the city, its sounds, colours and smell still could not imagine, how come suddenly group of rowdy young men came from nowhere and started pinching her, molesting her, ripping her clothes off.
Now story can take two turns, it depends upon the mind-set, whether some brainy man were passing that road on the way to his guruji or some brave young heart were passing.
First version, The woman felt a ray of hope. There was a sound of coming car. Driver has seen from the distance of more than 250 meter. what kind of drama is happening on the road. He felt for a moment to horn, so that boys can run away and leave the woman, but another thought came, if they have the pistol, they will puncture the car, he will be also in difficulty and moreover, he will miss the discourse of Acharya Shree Shree.
Before coming closer to the scene of crime, he takes the turn into the side road. Shit, it will take him 7 minutes more to reach his destined place!
(I have no idea that Brainy man on the way to the discourse of his Acharya Shree has the thought, at least phone to the police control room)
Second version-
A man was really persuaded by his friends at least one time to go and listen Acharya Shree. They were saying , ” Acharya Shree simply blows the mind away.”
For the sake of courtesy, this man decided to visit the last evening of the series of talk. As he was not a follower type, so he was already getting late, therefore was driving with the high speed. He could not imagine his eyes, just few hundred meters ahead, a group of four five boys were simply dragging a woman away from the street. As a vivid newsreader, it was not difficult for him to imagine, what is the matter. As an act of spontaneity, he simply started hawking his horn at the maximum just fifty meters before the point of action, and in the meantime, he also called the police control room.
After all, for what we have the smart phones!
From the book
( God is not deaf and dumb)
PS_ Most probably future great orators will copy this story and tell in their version.
Satya deva
What is the difference between an Avatara and an enlightened one?
I think Mam Meera prefers to be called as Avatara!
In India one can see, many shops selling genuine spare parts, may be I can tell few of them to get a franchise of Genuine Spiritual Teachers?
As if I’d have the remotest clue, Shantam!
And why imagine I could give a flying f**k?
Good question shantam.
An enlightened guru is an A lister, whereas an Avatara is an A**** lister, (that’s 4 A’s!)
Not happy to be just a plain old run-of-the-mill guru with the rest of the enlightened rabble, they are god incarnated into human form on a mission for humanity. VERY special!
SD favours these… (no need to ask why) e,g. mummy meera, meher baba, and jean de rotter… who thinks he’s the son of god but with.. erm.. ‘fringe benefits’.
“SD favours these” – above all others? Oh, really? I wonder where you get such ‘inside information’…I suggest you demand a refund. Or hire another private investigator.
Dominic likes dead gurus!Dominic likes dead gurus!Dominic likes dead gurus!Dominic likes dead gurus!
A Necroguruphiliac
Bodhi vartan, who told you osho left anything to jayesh? Yes, jayesh told you so.
Who told you that?
Fresch says:
>> Bodhi vartan, who told you osho left anything to jayesh?
The CIA.
dear contributors
dear moderators
this day
which started for me at least in peace
(before data hackings as other stalking happenings on the streets then
challenged very balance of mine)
this day then
after looking into the chat here at THIS website
briefed me
so to say
that also at other desks
turbulences have been happening
what i perceive
like that has been happening before
ist
that a bunch of male contributors not contribute at all
BUT
are in an inconceivable fighting mood
on top
like always
the for (4) AAAA “theta
who
sorry to say gets so much energy from nearly everybody for his obnoxious
vain and kind of murderous statements
the whole then
like an open forensic asylum
and what to say
nothing can or could be detected from my side what the hell
is
all of yours concern
well that s how they go
some of these days…
today
a black tueday i would like to say
share
my sadness about that
i am not that able like arpana to recall good old sufi stories
but there is one i remembered when looking through the utterings
it goes with protagonists in ancient india (or somewhere else)
two
very very poor pays ants
who had nothing as possessions
had some phantasies while playing with and in the mud outside
starting to imagine the one that he owns a cow
the other that he owns some acre as of fertile land
and they were painting that in the mud
then the whole trouble began
a fence had to be painted as well
that the cow does not destroy the crops
and well it went on and on and on
that both of them who had been friends before
started fighting against each other
so much so
that they wanted to kill each other
they were brought to the court
there and then the whole story how it began
has been figured out
well
THEY survived because the villagers intervened
and the ridiculousness and the very much soul-touching side of the uproar
also were conceived after all
in the case
of some of here
getting into their gears
i am not sure how that can end
and that s my sadness
evening-prayer of mine
madhu
(ps- i don t read correcture… i just get it GO
sorry guys-)
More Manifrustration
Don’t take it too seriously.
Regression playground therapy.
New Osho meditation created at SN.
dominic says:
>> Regression playground therapy.
>> New … meditation created at SN.
Too late for that. My local prossi has been offering it, as an extra, for ages. Her latest is “both on top”. You can try that.
THE WINNER SOWS HATRED
BECAUSE THE LOSER SUFFERS.
LET GO OF WINNING AND LOSING
AND FIND JOY.
How to find joy? Let your ambition disappear; ambition is the barrier. Ambition means an ego trip: “I want to be this, I want to be that — more money, more power, more prestige.”
But remember, Buddha says:
THE WINNER SOWS HATRED BECAUSE THE LOSER SUFFERS. LET GO OF WINNING AND LOSING AND FIND JOY.
If you want to find joy, forget about winning and losing. Life is a play, a game.
Play it beautifully, forget all about losing and winning. The real sportsman’s spirit is not that of winning or losing, it is not his real question. He enjoys playing; that is the real player. If you are playing to win, you will play with tension, anxiety. You are not concerned with the play itself, its joy and its mystery; you are more concerned with the outcome. This is not the right way to live in the world.
Live in the world without any idea of what is going to happen. Whether you are going to be a winner or a loser, it doesn’t matter. Death takes everything away. Whether you lose or win is immaterial. The only thing that matters, and has always been, is how you played the game. Did you enjoy it? — the game itself — then each moment is of joy. You never sacrifice the moment for the future.
Osho.
The Dhammapada: The Way of the Buddha, Vol 6
Chapter #5
Chapter title: Live in joy