10th January, 2014
PUNE: The Koregaon Park police served a summons yesterday to Mukesh Sarda, one of the administrators of the Osho International Meditation Resort (Osho Ashram), asking him to appear before them on Friday.(today).
A first information report (FIR) was filed by a group of Osho’s followers against the management alleging that the administrators had forged the will of their spiritual mentor to use the rights and income from Osho’s intellectual property.
Rajendra Mulik, inspector (crime) of Koregaon Park police station, who is handling the case, said, “We have sent summons to Mukesh Sarda, who looks after all the work of the Osho Ashram in India. We are planning to talk to all the administrators whose names appear in the FIR, one by one. It is not possible to extract information from all of them at one go. I have asked Sarda to appear before us for inquiry on January 10 and am waiting for his response.”
When Sarda was contacted, he said the matter was sub-judice and refused to comment further.
Police officials indicate that the administrators are facing a case in the US and standing trial in Spain over the copyrights of Osho’s works. An allegedly forged will was produced in a Spanish court. “A group of Osho’s disciples in India, who got to know of this, filed an FIR against some of Osho Ashram’s administrators,” said an official from the Koregaon Park police station.
Police are looking for the original of the will. “It was with one of the administrators in the US, from where it was submitted in the court proceedings in Spain. We are trying to recover the original which we would then give to government-approved handwriting experts to analyse the signature for authenticity. We cannot analyse the signature from a photostat copy of the will which is currently with us,” the official added.
Yogesh Thakkar (Swami Prem Geet) on behalf of Osho Friends Foundation, Pune, had filed the FIR says (and of coutse this is only his view) “The will was prepared in Pune and was presented by the trustees before the court 23 years after Osho’s demise. As per the will that they have produced, all six administrators are authorized to use the rights and income from Osho’s intellectual property.” Thakkar claims the will is forged, and Osho left no will. On common sense grounds one might wonder that Osho had left no will at all?
Background:
On December 8, 2013, Osho Friends Foundation had filed an FIR against six administrators of the Osho Ashram, alleging that they had produced a forged will of Osho, dated October 15, 1989, Poona, bearing a fake signature.
Koregaon Park police officials had issued a notice to the ashram authorities to produce the original copy of the will. Currently, other court cases are pending brought by individuals against the six administrators and others in the Bombay high court, as well as in the courts of Europe. Someone’s got it in for them!
India´s common men and women are revolutionising the politics of the country through the initiative of Arvind Kejriwal´s Aam Admi party( Common Man´s party).
It is dubbed as second freedom struggle after 1947. This time it is not the Britishers on the receiving end but the brown Sahib, who sucked the country through corruption and nepotism.
Almost on the similar fashion, Osho Sannyas is passing through its biggest fire test from the time of its conception. Rajneeshpuram´s destruction has not destroyed the moral of Osho disciples as the one man ship of a disciple, who with his coterie has unlashed one blunder after another.
So it seems like, Osho´s Common Sannyasins are going to rewrite the future. Never again Osho Vision and His ashram will become prisoner of limited interpretations of someone or anyone.
It is a beginning of an end. Screws are getting tightened.
thank you, parmatha
thank you for your last posting( 10. january at 6.39 pm)
(“can a teacher help?”)
as well as opening as a kind of moderator and more the new thread here in the caravanserai
when i have been listening to one of my favorites from time to time
while riding waves of consciousness as well as mine inside as well as of others so to say
the music
masterly played like the one i listened just now
is also of great help to get clearer
this one of today s evening was
jan garbarek
and his great team playing the peace called “VISIBLE WORLD”
as the waves in the caravanserai have been going further the way down (or up?)
ocean-wise
i am not in need now to post some inter-biographical “corrections” now
and that is relief too…because i feel more as exhausted
the way you expressed that osho was the source of so much love too
besides most of the stuff what is on top of any discussion threads
and expertizing competitions
was
in a way balsam for my heart
there is this old saying or symbol
dealing with
universal (and may not only india s spiritual heritage)
called
THE TRUTH THE VIRTUE AND THE BEAUTY
SAT CHIT ANAND
and the longing to be in contact with this kind of energy
is
i feel
universal
hidden in us all
love
madhu
Swami Rajneesh says he has heard:
That 6 Osho Foundation International Inner Circle members are sitting in deep silence. They have all joined a marathon Intensive Group , Who Is In ?
They are mentally preparing for the long sitting, to contemplate Who Is In !
While another Osho Therapist group under Jayesh are seeking legal and spiritual advise on how the 6 Goose will get out of the Bottle !
Time for deep contemplation and some humor finally for OIF
(MOD: MINI KANG, IN FUTURE, IF SWAMI RAJNEESH WISHES TO MAKE A POINT HERE HE’LL NEED TO DO IT HIMSELF, NOT VIA YOU OR ANYONE ELSE. OK?)
Did Mukesh “appear” for questioning yesterday??
And if not, what options are there within the Indian legal system?
For everything certain kind of climate is needed. Therefore everything does not grow in every country, it is not just about vegetation but thoughts too.
For example India is a right country for all kind of spiritual and religious experimentation. I think on this level, there is no other country with more tolerance.
I think it is a bad coincidence that Osho, The Indian created Rajneeshpuram in America and the vibes there made it packed. It is a good luck of Jayesh, The Canadian that he captured the cream of Osho legacy in India and system just allowed it to flourish.
Let us not go into the merit or demerit of authenticity of Osho´s will. Just try to imagine, such issue is raised in UK, USA or Canada, what will be the outcome, how press will react, how grand jury will already on the way.
So in a way, any one with crooked intentions can find a safe heaven in India.
As per the street wisdom, Mukesh has more than 10 possibilities to delay a simple questioning.
Thanks Shantam. I take it Mukesh did not show up on Friday?
Yes I knew quite a few of the criminal classes in the seventies who “disappeared” into India – though I must say all had quite a lot of bread to help them in so doing!
One in particular , a real card – who I also played cricket with. I sometimes wonder about him, and hope he is still alive, and will one day meet him in a street somewhere, looking relaxed and that invitation to chill ever on his lips. Like many I have met along the way, they blessed my life, and I hope I blessed theirs. It would have been less meaningful without them.
Osho- My Pune Resort Organisation is- a nuisance killing my religion- a crowd of scholars, priests, power seekers, interpreters!
In this beautiful talk, Osho is sharing his understanding that,
Till he was alive, walking and talking with his disciples.
He did not have any organization around him.
He did not have any holy book.
He did not have any mediator.
He did not have any interpreter.
Whatever appeared like Organisation
was just functional like Post Office.
It’s work was to help him so that
all types of people , devotees and meditators,
could be with him,
could have inner flowering in his silent presence.
However till he was alive,
A crowd of scholars, priests, power seekers, interpreters,
had gathered around him who were not interested in the truth,
they were interested in their own business,
they had a desire to stand between him and his people,
He felt so alone in this crowd of exploiters,
power seekers, hierarchies, bureaucracies.
But till he was alive,
he managed somehow to keep them down,
and All the ways of inner journey discovered by humanity so far,
were comfortable each having it’s unique place into his way.
All types of people were accepted just the way they were,
All types of people, devotees and meditators, all had a place in his way.
But since he left his body, his place – Pune Samadhi,
His Pune Resort Organisation has taken into its grip,
They are standing between him and his disciples,
Pune Resort Organisation has become the new Church,
Their interpretation called Osho Guidance has become the new Holy Book,
Jayesh has become the new Pope of his religion.
They are killing his religion,
they are denying and destroying his Pune Samadhi,
They do not allow his Devotees and their way,
They do not allow his Awakened Disciples to enter.
They allow his greedy mediums, therapists, popular DJs.
They allow rich and western people who can pay their fat bills,
They keep the charges of Resort high to keep away indian seekers!
They keep hitting at spiritual sentiments
of millions of indian disciples and seekers.
They allow cheap raunchy music in his sacred Buddha Hall,
but they do not allow his devotees to do Bhajan, Keertan, love songs,
(devotional/uplifting music) which He used to love when in body,
and they do not do not allow to play his discourses in his sacred Buddha Hall,
so many beautiful discourses on saints and Buddhas, of india and whole world.
They allow shoes on his sacred Buddha Hall,
but they do not allow his photos at the podium of his Buddha Hall.
,
They allow cheap liquour parties in his sacred Buddhafield,
but they do not allow aesthetic aarati and Prasadam out of love in his sacred Buddhafield.
Aarati is a beautiful indian ceremony of waving lights around your loved Buddha,
Prasadam is offering sweets to your loved Buddha
They have forgotten that they are living in India,
They are living in jurisdiction of Indian Law,
And they are hitting at spiritual sentiments
of millions of indian devotees and seekers.
They are interfering the rights of his indian disciples,
to express their devotion by singing, dancing, listening discourses in his Buddha Hall,
to worship him with their love!
They are interfering with rights of his Indian disciple citizens to practice their religion!
They are interfering with Indian Law!
.
***********************************************************************
Question 4
BELOVED OSHO,
OFTEN MY FELLOW SANNYASINS ASK WHAT I THINK ABOUT A PARTICULAR EVENT THAT TOOK PLACE NEAR YOU,
OR HOW I FEEL ABOUT THE ORGANIZATION AROUND YOU.
BEING HERE WITH YOU, I FIND MYSELF MORE INTERESTED IN THAT EMPTINESS WHICH YOU SPEAK AROUND, THAT SPACE FROM WHERE YOU COME.
OSHO, WILL YOU SPEAK TO MY FRIENDS ABOUT THE CRAZY EVENTS AND ACTIONS THAT ALWAYS SURROUND YOUR PRESENCE?
There are many things to be said about the question.
First, there is no organization around me.
I am against organizations because each organization kills the truth.
The ancient story is that a little devil came running to the master devil and said, ”Master, what are you doing here wasting your time smoking a cigar?
There on the earth one man has found the truth.
And if the people of the earth come to know about the truth,
that will be a calamity to us.
Hell will be deserted.
There will not be a single newcomer anymore.
Something has to be done urgently!”
But the old devil went on smoking the Havana cigar.
He said, ”Calm down, my son. You are new. I have made every arrangement.”
He said, ”But I am coming exactly from the spot! There is no arrangement!”
He said, ”You don’t understand.
There are already organizers around the man – priests, interpreters,
organizers.
A church is being made, and they are standing between the man and the masses.
Whatever he says, they interpret it before it reaches to the people.
”This is my old strategy. Try it, and it always succeeds.
That’s how I have killed all the religions.”
Truth has been found many times,
but it has never been possible to make it available to the people.
The organization becomes a wall – power seekers, hierarchies, bureaucracies.
And the man who has found the truth –
he is so alone in this crowd of scholars, priests, power seekers, interpreters;
he finds himself absolutely helpless.
Whatever he says they distort it.
Whatever he says, something else reaches to the people.
There are others who are writing books,
and these books will be worshipped,
they will become holy books.
Sculptors have arrived;
they are making the statue of the man who has found the truth.
Nobody is interested in the truth, everybody is interested in his own business.
They worship the man, and worshipping is another form of crucifying.
If you are cultured, you worship;
if you are uncultured, you crucify –
but there is no difference between the two.
The worshippers say, ”You are God incarnate.
We will remember you forever.
Our children will worship you.
There will be temples all over the earth, your statues all over the world.”
The scribes are writing books,
the writers are making great systems of thought.
Nobody listens to the man.
In fact, nobody is there to listen to him.
Everybody is there to exploit him.
The priest says, ”Ask me.
He is so far above that without mediators,
there is no possibility of any communication.”
Just recently the pope declared that anybody who confesses to God directly,
without the mediation of a Catholic priest, is committing a grave sin.
Strange – you cannot confess to God directly, it is a grave sin.
First you have to go to the Catholic priest.
Everything should move through proper channels;
you have to tell the Catholic priest, and he will inform God,
and God will inform him what punishment has to be given to you.
The old devil said, ”You don’t be worried.
I have my popes, Ayatolla Khomeiniacs, shankaracharyas, Acharya Tulsi’s –
and all kinds of idiots are there.
We need not be worried; just take a Havana cigar, relax.
You are just new and don’t understand the business yet.”
So the first thing:
I don’t have any organization.
I don’t have any holy book.
I don’t have any mediator.
I don’t have any interpreter.
Whatever you see as organization is not organization,
it is simply functional; it is just like the post office.
Now so many millions of people writing letters to each other …
some kind of arrangement has to be there;
somebody has to sort out the letters, where they have to go.
But the postmaster has not any authority, nor the postman, nor the postmaster general.
Who knows the name of the postmaster general?
It is just functional work.
In a good world, you will not know the name of the president of your country –
it is a functional post.
You will not know who is the prime minister – there is no need,
it is simply functional.
They should be doing their work,
and they are needed just the way shoemakers are need, scavengers are needed.
The president is not needed more than the plumber;
in fact, the plumber is needed more than the president.
The president is simply sitting there in the capital doing nothing,
and when something goes wrong in your bathroom –
which happens almost every day –
then the plumber is needed.
But nobody honors the plumber;
the plumber has no authority, he has no power.
And bogus people who are not doing anything have power.
That is the miracle of organization:
Organization creates useless people,
but makes everybody feel that without them the whole society will collapse.
Stalin never took a single holiday in his whole life,
and he was one of the men who ruled longest.
And when his daughter, Svetlana once asked him …
He must have been in a very good mood, which was rare.
Svetlana was married to an Indian.
She has told the story to me herself.
Stalin said that he cannot take any holiday because the holiday
will make the whole country feel that the country can go perfectly well without him. And the truth is, the country will go perfectly well without him.
He has to remain in the chair to make the country feel that without him,
everything is going to collapse.
The whole bureaucracy makes you feel that
without them everything is going to be wrong.
This is their way of gaining power.
And the people who are interested in power are
the people who are the most empty,
who are suffering from an inferiority complex.
These are the most sick people in the world.
I don’t have any organization.
Just functionally, if only a hundred people can sit here
and three hundred people come,
then somebody has to prevent the two hundred,
give them passes – ”You come tomorrow.”
But that does not make him powerful,
so that you have to have his picture hanging in your house –
”This man is no ordinary man; this man passes out tickets, worship him.”
He is simply serving you, there is no question of power.
OSHO
The Osho Upanishad
CHAPTER 24. AROUND ME… SOMETHING HAPPENS
MOD: THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED TO LEAVE OUT THE PART OF THE DISCOURSE THAT IS NOT RELEVANT TO THE TOPIC UNDER DISCUSSION.
EKANTAM, IT WOULD BE HELPFUL IF YOU COULD BEAR IN MIND SUCH RELEVANCE WHEN SUBMITTING YOUR POSTS.
Seems an intrigue, not only against Osho… more against the whole live, especially to sabotage Human. Our common bewildered mind got separated by Religions and pressure of Interests. What is behind matter or behind the sun, our true facts within our self. Pain not being understood even it’s the Medicine… Little devil does a great job, every new day is the prove.
What on earth does this post mean?
To be fair, Bodh Ekantam , I would not have liked to see Pune Ashram in the same way the Bodgaya Bodhi tree is with thousands pilgrims prostrating themselves on the floor.
You have some points of course, but I fear if in the same manner the Indian sannyasins will get hold of Pune resort (which will happen in the yrs to come I am sure of it) they will turn it in into another ashram which will be no different to any other empty worshipping religious place in India. Osho tried to make the difference and create a modern place so in that sense Pune is succeeding (although heart is missing).
Just imagine the corruption and greed the Indian new Jayesh would bring? – yes there will be devotional songs and all that but there will be also a lot of mess. So I fear money and power corrupts and those dreaming to take Jayeshe’s pedestal are no different…
Nevertheless, I think we should support Arun into an enquiry into dealings in Pune. Whatever is illegal, criminal and discriminating should be stopped.
I would rather have a corruptionfree – greedless alien / Pakistani , Jayesh ! LOL
Bodhi Ekantam
Some time as a doctor you should think, if this is the state of mind of the people who were close to Osho, what kind of hope is there for people who know him only through books?
May be we should create an hypothesis, “Blessed are the people who join the master after his death.”
History supports this.
Oh really, Shantam? Evidence, please!
Another very foolish statement. You can not be serious?
http://i.imgur.com/CdKjoHe.jpg
Ekantam:
The people “physically” close to Osho were a very small subset of the people who were around him when he was alive.
It was clear to many of us that those NOT mentioned in lecture, and NOT players in the organisation, but who were interested in their interiority were leagues ahead of the organisers in terms of their vibe, etc. Many of those are still alive, and take Osho throughout the planet, one way or the other. But not neccesarily in the way Arun, Keerthi, etc do. In a way the new organisers who aspire to run the ashram are the same non esoteric types as the organisers you despise.
This is not unconnected to extrovert and introversion.
The best managers are usually people who can engage with a lot of people a lot if the time, but don’t enjoy being alone, and inevitably wont find meditating so easy.
Introverts need time alone. The more introvert they are the more time they need alone, but they are the people who probably find meditating easiest.
Well, an exception to this would be Barry Long, who was in managerial roles, eg newspaper editor and public relations chief, while ‘journeying within’. Although as years went by and realisations deepened he did tend to take work roles with less immediate responsibility for others. All documented in his recently published autobiography, ‘My Life of Love and Truth’.
Oh Ok.
Was a broad brush comment really.
Certainly not intended to be definitive.
Was also not so much a reference to ‘Masters’.
Rather to those who gather round them.
P: a few years ago if i remember correctly a sannyasin who cared for Osho’s mother commented on SN. He said that he witnessed things with regards to Osho and his direct involvement with Ranch affairs that would scare the living bejesus out of us.. I believe him, for he has nothing to lie about, but i wish he would have given specific details as to Osho’s supposed direct involvement with Ranch affairs. Funny, why those close to him have never really “spilled the beans” regarding that. I mean for freakin sake, it’s now 28 years since the implosion at the Ranch.. nothing to be ashamed about and maybe the current and future young sannyasin wannabes can learn something from the mistakes made.
Who knows whether the guy was genuine or just someone with an anti-Osho, anti-Sannyas agenda, hsr? (EG someone from the CIA or similar, for example?).
Which is how you yourself have often enough tended to appear here, by the way.
For all I know you could be up to something similar,under the ‘innocent’ guise of ‘helping the new generation’.
Unless you simply enjoy spreading negativity, pain and disenchantment….
You will have to reference this Honeysuckle. We have no memory of such a post. (SN Editors).
Having read many accounts of the Ranch including Devageet’s nitrous stuff, the contrary might well seem to be the case – Osho was out of it a lot of the time giving no attention to detail.)
One tends to agree with SD, there are a lot of negative people out there who want to believe such stuff.
how often does a person have to post , to considered free from suspicion? Did you read SD’s hilarious yet hallucinatory accusation that i maybe a CIA agent?. Just because i don’t post responses frequently enough?
MOD: SOME EDITING HERE.
Yes hsr, Sd’s reply is rich coming from a 12ft lizard.
You feel put upon and feign innocence?
Classic CIA response though I’m afraid.
As for “spreading negativity, pain and disenchantment….”
Well now, seems Team Osho did a pretty good job all by itself.
Not sure which is worse ‘an enlightened master’ who is directly involved in dodgy dealings, or one who is ‘out of it a lot of the time’ for four years.
Kind of stretches one’s definition of enlightenment.
Anyways back to knocking on doors for my jehovah’s witness mission.
Armageddon’s coming…
Yeah – on this thread, just looking through some of @BodhEkantam’s previous comments – the above comment from ‘Honeysuckle Rose’, 15 January, 2014 at 11:19 pm, here writing again after being previously banned as ‘Jay C Pennie’ aka ‘Prem Bubbie’, again trying to insinuate that Osho was ‘directly involved’ in Sheela’s criminal activities at the Ranch. Who I recently pointed out turned up as ‘Dean Carter’ on this site in 2018, with the same fabricated story when ‘Wild Wild Country’ was generating a lot of interest in Osho in the media and lots of hits on SN.
(See Satyadeva’s reply, 16 January, 2014 at 12:47 am:
underneath:
“Who knows whether the guy was genuine or just someone with an anti-Osho, anti-Sannyas agenda, hsr? (Eg, someone from the CIA or similar, for example?).
Which is how you yourself have often enough tended to appear here, by the way.”)
shantam prem says:
>> May be we should create an hypothesis, “Blessed are the people who join the master after his death.”
History supports this.
I know exactly what you are saying. Spot on. Also after his death, the role of the master changes, plus he attracts different kind of people (the kind of ppl he would never have attracted when alive).
The ppl he attracted when alive did not want his help, they wanted his power…
‘The ppl he attracted when alive did not want his help, they wanted his power…’
Projecting yourself I reckon BV.
I knew you’d say that… but I was just going by the type of ppl ‘ he’ had round him rather than petit moi, a million miles away.
Don’t lie BV.
Youv’e dropped a Shantam and you know it.
P says:
>> They will never “crash” because the Master is not there to orchestrate the destruction of their egos!
Arpi, I will respond by offering you Mr P’s comment… (to which I will add) when the power is out of reach, the power seekers, (tend to) go elsewhere.
Madhu says:
>> please ponder about
that your vision might be neither broad nor fair
‘Broad and fair’ must be the shop next door. Here, you only get real.
bv.
You are exhilarated by the exuberance of your own verbosity.
If you mean a few, then yes, of course. But if you mean all – which is what it seems you’re saying – then it’s just a foolish comment.
You write some decent stuff, Vartan, but at times it’s as if you get hold of an idea, like how it sounds, ie ‘radical’, ‘edgy’, and put it out, without assessing it properly.
The vast majority of ‘Osho people’ I’ve come across have simply been looking for ‘the good’, at various levels, whatever they’ve perceived this to be at different times, not power over others at all.
I wasn’t where you were and you weren’t where I was. Just different limbs of the same elephant.
Those you probably thought were ok would have pushed their granny over a cliff to get “in front” when Osho was around. Go on, tell me I am radical…
“Radical”? No, far more mundane, ie just the victim of your imagination and a wish to say something ‘different’.
“Spot on”? Absolute nonsense, Vartan.
Satya Deva is asking for evidence, It is written all over in black and white.
If being with Osho was a great achivement i don’t think someone would have gone to Punja ji, Meera ji or simply forging the signatures..
But yes, students have to go to different professors during every new acdemic years.
So i write it again, ““Blessed are the people who join the master after his death. There hopes, wishes and imaginations will never crash.”
Real people become old and die. Departed ones can breath oxygen all the time!
Let us go into these Sutras.
Hmm!
Lets see!
Who wrote the Sutras?
Shantam wrote the Sutras.
No need to read anymore.
Is a known fact that anything Shantam writes is drivel.
They will never “crash” because the Master is not there to orchestrate the destruction of their egos!
Codswallop, of the unadulterated kind.
Although “imaginations” is certainly the right word, as are “hopes” and “wishes”!
A Master isn’t here for anyone’s “hopes, wishes and imaginations”, Shantam. If you think he is then you haven’t realised what you’ve supposedly got yourself into.
Why do you think he’s here – to satisfy your personal wishes for prancing around, praying and worshipping what you imagine he is, while having it off with as many western women as you can handle?!
Shantam,
when Osho was alive, particularly in our experience in Poona one, many, many different types were attracted to be around him, and there often seemed to be many hundreds of them. We dont know the full stats., maybe someone does?
They were indeed a very varied bunch. But there was a sizeable minority who were clearly into meditation, or work as meditation, and made that there major preoccupation. They should be respected cos they were also exposing themselves to an energy field whose mystery was that it brought up genuine encounter (outside of the groups) which moved genuine seekers on. This was unspoken, and maybe unrecognised by organisers, etc who simply did not “see” such disciples.
actaully i found that most drawn to him , whether 51% or 90% , were drawn to him because of the free for all sex trip, that and the drugs and partying.. yes there were many who were there for the intense meditation and pure way of living, but even at the Ranch- the sex trip ruled the day
honeysucklerose, you are projecting and see only what you want to see. You also judge and have no idea what spirituality is, which is in everything, if you want to see it there, or here.
HSR, is obviously uinformed, nothing new there. It always surprised me how peope always assumed that sex was a great lure in Poona One, beause for most of us who were actually there it was not at all like that. The initial magnet was Osho himself and then somewhere down the line you looked out the window and noticed that you were in a very promiscious place. Yes, the parties were always great because everyone enjoyed to dance and get loose. Drugs were very much in the background and the vast majority of sannyasins were not interested in drugs during Poona One. On the few occasions that I got stoned and entered the ashram I really felt that I had brought the energy down for myself and those around me. The one time I took a strong psychedelic and went to the music group I had an absolute blast, reminiscent of trippng at a Grateful Dead concert but like…ehm..more spiritual..and sexy.
Lokesh, it looks like Honeyrose saw exactly what you saw but in a different order.
Well, BV, you know what they say…appearances can be deceptive.
I don’t know about that Lokesh, it can also be said that appearance is everything.
Not what you say but how you behave.
I reckon that you and madwho would get on spiffily in the real world.
So what happened last Friday Mr well informed Sikh.
Most likely nothing at all, but let’s get back on topic if there is any news from the Koregaon Park Police station. We remember that Police station, a very small cabin, but maybe it has “expanded” since 1981!!
1981!
I know people who visited Pune in 1979, and they still ask, ” Is Vinod Khanna still there? Do Laxmi still sits in the same office?
After an intense experience of any kind time gets frozen, still…
sad enough bodhi vartan (your post REALLY AFTER 12 a clock
17.1.2014 at 12.12 pm)
sad enough – bodhi vartan
your kind of resumee
it may be your “truth” commented in your last lines
it is not mine
as well as i didn’t experience that in most of the fellow travelers i have been meeting
so
may be
inspite of quite an amount of disillusionary happenings of interdependent traffics so to say
i may have been lucky to meet other kind of humans (fellow travelers)
whom i sometimes miss like anything..
but that s another thread
may be
or may not be -
please ponder about
that your vision might be neither broad nor fair
madhu
Ahh! Now I get it. Madhoo’s comments are extracts from a forthcomng book, entitled ‘Excursions into Outer La-La-Landia’.
My experience was that many arrived in Poona one from 1974 out of different species of psychological desperation, much as Osho himself passed through during his 20th year.
These folk accepted through success, or more often failure, that life had the tang of meaninglessness and were apolitical types. In fact the whole history of sannyas whilst Osho was in the body was that not so many organising types into political power were attracted to him. Many were simply not into any sort of temporal power. Then again a smaller subset of those were interested in what might be called “personal power” siddhas, and the like, but Osho discouraged that interest.
Then there were indeed a smaller minority who wanted political power in the sense of which Vartan seems to be describing. Some of those survived into Poona two, and still survive, so I dont see how Shantam can argue his case for the superiority of those who did not taste the presence of a real Master.
Frankly, had I reached my twenties in the nineties I might well have gone to Poona, but certainly would have then sought out a living Master as only they can see through the tricks of the ego and make it their whole life and business to expose such things.
Although it is a minority of people who crave power, or to be close to it’s orbit, those who are drawn to it, tend to suffer more from its related afflictions, e.g. narcissism, grandiosity, control and various compensatory psychopathologies.
“…living Master as only they can see through the tricks of the ego and make it their whole life and business to expose such things.”
I still think this is a romantic view of masters or teachers.
I have never met such a one. In fact they all seem to have their own agendas as much as anyone.
Equally, contact time is usually very limited, so unless you live in their household, most of the time is spent with ourselves.
So we need to learn from the getgo to nurture our own inner master.
The idea that mind and ego disables us, and a master sees clearly, is ultimately disempowering and false.
Put more cynically, the guru’s motto…
“Give a man a fish, and that man knows where to come for fish. Teach a man to fish, and you’ve just destroyed my market base. What the hell is wrong with you?”
If you’ve never come across anyone who “can see through the tricks of the ego and make it their whole life and business to expose such things”, Dominic, then perhaps you’ve never listened to any of them and/or never put into practice what they advised?
But why bother with any of them anyway? What is it that you ever wanted when you went to spend your precious time and energy around them? The Truth, to simply ‘feel better’, a decent sex life, love, friends, an excuse to do nothing else much with your life, Love – or some or all or even none of these?
(Maybe that’s what Madhu was getting at recently when she asked you what you wanted “to manifest”?).
And would you ever have reached what you’re saying is your current state of (presumably relative) ‘freedom’ without the previous decades of hanging around these people (and, presumably, not getting what you came for)?
It is a known fact, individuals who are afraid of the water, will go to extraordinary lengths to convince themselves, that’s it is those who who believe learning to swim is worthwhile, and their teachers, who are at fault.
Substitute marmite for swimming.
Protest to much. etc.
Tweedledum and tweedledee, a neocon double-act, who are never happier, than when either jumping down someone’s throat or worshipping at someone’s feet.
Channeling so much gurulove, that they keep blowing their short fuses.
Throw a little kumbaya on the water.
Always catch something fishy.
We acknowledge the effort you’re making these days Swami Copypaste, though not the execution.
Bet you’ve never done anything in your life that you take pride in, and its always the situations fault, the gurus, non gurus fault, the therapists fault, the teachers fault.
You couldn’t finish your degree and it was the fault of the institution; or you didn’t do that well, and you blame the poor quality of the tutoring.
You are a glass is half empty character.
Millions of people suffer in this life. Hellish things go on in this life, and the best you can do is try to undermine me by calling me Mr copy paste.
You sad middle aged sixth former.
Gotcha
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Sounds as if yours is the only fuse blown here, Dominic, if you merely resort to such misguided ‘comments’ (I stopped myself writing ‘abuse’) to ‘re-fuse’ to answer simple, relevant points. Or are they ‘too close to home’ for comfort, perhaps?
You don’t know how funny you sound sometimes sd… prosecution for the ‘witness’.
Oh, sure, Dominic, sure.
Strange how such a would-be ‘great iconoclast’ doesn’t like it anywhere near him, let alone ‘up him’!
Still, as long as you’re ‘a joke unto yourself’….
Challenging a herd of your sacred cows?
“Don’t panic, Captain Mainwaring!”
“Who do you think you are kidding, Satyadeva?
If you think we’re on the run…
We are the boys who will stop your little game!
We are the boys who will make you think again!
‘Cause, who do you think you are kidding Satyadeva?
If you think old Dom is done?”
http://youtu.be/Jvr6X054xLY
Dominic, you’re the ‘Avoider’ par excellence here, worse even than Shantam (and that’s saying something).
Like the Eyeties (army wartime slang for Italians, for the uninitiated)you’re happy enough when you think you might be controlling the game, playing clever little one-two’s down the field, attempting to confuse the opposition with close control and spontaneous outbursts of dexterity…But you merely cry ‘foul, ref!’ (or its equivalent) when you’re on the run.
As I said, you just ‘don’t like it up you’ (just like the Eyeties)!
Yellow Card! (I’m being generous, you deserve a Red).
Still, Dominic, not to forget the points that you seemingly want to avoid, here they are again:
What is it that you ever wanted when you went to spend your precious time and energy around them (spiritual teachers, gurus, masters)? The Truth, to simply ‘feel better’, a decent sex life, love, friends, an excuse to do nothing else much with your life, Love – or some or all or even none of these?
(Maybe that’s what Madhu was getting at recently when she asked you what you wanted “to manifest”?).
And would you ever have reached what you’re saying is your current state of (presumably relative) ‘freedom’ without the previous decades of hanging around these people (and, presumably, not getting what you came for)?
Well there’s courage in numbers in the minor leagues, Gary.
Messrs Rumpole of the Bailey and Swami CopypastePro are morphing into eachother, like an old but odd couple.
“Good point Arps..Thanks SD..Spot on Arps..Love you SD..etc”
We’ve seen it all before.
It’s partly con and partly fusion, resulting in.. yes, you’ve guessed it.. confusion… lots of.
SD imagines he’s in a courtroom drama, with rhetorical appeals to the jury and bench.
He’s not a criminal lawyer though, just a criminally awful one.
Perhaps he’s recreating early childhood trauma… interrogations by his dad for eating too many biscuits or just speaking up for himself. Tragic really.
His repeated use of the word ‘love’, and ‘not liking it up him’, may even point to a darker truth.
One of the worst cases we’ve seen.
Objection sustained.
Your Honour, in view of the fact that the Defendant in this Tragic Case (himself) refuses to answer legitimate questions put to him by the Prosecution, I respectfully submit that he is thus – and not for the first time – in Contempt of this Court.
Furthermore, I also contend that the Defendant, by virtue of his Heretical Claims and Sacreligious Attitude – notwithstanding any alleged ‘appropriateness’ in his own individual (or rather, ‘individuational’) case – is somewhat in Contempt of the Court of Life Itself and so, rather than ask for a long Custodial Sentence (with the attendant risks of ‘clever-dick’ humour, not to mention poor spelling and inconsistent punctuation) I suggest that he be thrown on the reliably unreliable Winds of Life Itself, there to Suffer – and perhaps ultimately be brought to his senses.
For the Source of such Cynicism is Self-Regard, Fear of Change, a wish to Remain the Same, to be ‘Comfortable’ in the Known, to be, as it were, ‘Enthralled’ by – but in Reality ‘In Thrall’ to – “the Mind and the Ego”…And the Price is further Suffering on the Wheel of Life Itself.
Take him Outside then, Release him to the Stormy Elements! For only They can teach such an Arrogant, Ungrateful one as he.
Q.E.D. M’lord!
I submit that this is a Canguru court, and that the case be dismissed herewith.
Moreover I object to his serious and libellous allegations of poor spellink and punktuation, when my right dishonourable and longwinded gentleman is himself egregiously guilty of the same, and worst of all, lazy and incompetent sentence construction.. “worse even than Shantam (and that’s saying something).”
I doubt he has had any formal law training whatsoever, except at the Sinns of Court.
He sorely needs some legal aid, because the last time I checked, thinking was not a crime!
Furthermore, by suggesting that “I don’t like it up” me, he implies that he does, and regard the airing of such matters distasteful if not exhibitionist.
He simply confirms the old adage,
“Question authority and authority will soon question you.”
In an earlier, and more merciful age to others, he would have been taken out and shot.
There is only one verdict the jury can possibly reach.
A retrial with the prosecutor himself in chains, in the dock, for his heinous crimes.
Canguru? More like Conguru.
Good Post, PM. right on el dinero.
Mind you P, fair bit of interpersonal power games going on, and still do.
(Second para. On the nose.)
There are more than 101living masters in India. Anybody including Parmartha wants to have the names and addresses, please connect me. I can even look at the profile of the would be disciples and available living masters.
One thing I can say for sure quoting words of Osho and His work that He was more interested to leave behind the system which works rather than bones and ashes.
Osho has mentioned hundreds of times, spirituality as science.
If scientific branch of His work is on the last line of the foot notes it is because of those who were living under his wings. Third rate company CEO´s can kill any brand, any innovation.
So in a way, if future ever think to write the history of Osho, it is not difficlut to imagine, who will be blamed.
PS_Any way..It is nice to remember Osho died just 24 years ago. Sometime it looks like, he must have gone before Buddha or even Krishna.
And I wonder how many of those “more than 101 living Masters in India” have the remotest clue how to teach/help westerners.
Very, very few, I imagine.
My feeling is that all that transcendence stuff was particular to the western middle class of the time. As the middle class in the west is now disappearing, the (poorer) younger ppl of today are looking for more pragmatic solutions… than a master.
Now that’s more realistic, hard to disagree. Although the 60′s and even the 70′s generations grew up in a different psychic climate, not by any means wholly dependent on the economic conditions of the time. There was ‘something in the air’, an ‘opening’, the spirit of rebellion, of search, of discovery of the new, the more ‘real’.
Today’s youth have no comparable ‘spirit of the age’, as well as an unfavourable economic climate. But perhaps this might possibly mean that those drawn to ‘the spiritual search’ (for want of a better phrase) are really serious, that there are fewer there ‘just for the ride’, the ‘fringe benefits’, as it were.
Interesting though that the sixties generation were so much less well of, but everything was getting better, was on the up
Whereas now everything is perceived to be getting worse.
During the worst depression since the thirties, and according to the Daily mail worse than the thirties, they reported that sixty five% of 9 to 13 year olds had mobile phones. That was the percentage which didn’t get enough to eat in the thirties.
Good point, Arpana. Mobiles and computers…
Well, I guess that provides some sense of power and control…
Just as it does to a few of us on here (no names mentioned, of course)….
Objection your honour.
Slanderous defamation on the good names of SN contributors.
(MOD: SOME EDITING HERE)
The Defendant resorts to ‘Scraping the Barrel’, pretending he gives two hoots (or even ‘hoos’) for the “good names of SN contributors”!
My advice, Save your Powder, sir – you’ll need it ‘Out There’!
During the Argentine economic depression 1998-2001 tv programs about ufos were being broadcast all the time in that country. These days everything is ancient aliens on the history channel. I am sure that some psychological trick is being played on us.
shantam prem says:
>> One thing I can say for sure quoting words of Osho and His work that He was more interested to leave behind the system which works rather than bones and ashes.
If the system didn’t work while he was alive how is it suppose to work now… unless you call social darwinism a system. Which by the way, is the system that has declared you extinct.
I like it BV.
Osho International, twinned with North Korea.
Russian models would never go and live in N. Korea…
Russian models in pune might be paid to be there, other that young girls or students do not have money for it.