Someone sent SannyasNews this, adding they thought not so many sites would carry it. Anyway here it is. The “Editing” of Osho is much more long lived than some of these modern critics assume. In fact SD, a contibutor here, was the first Editor of Osho’s book The Mustard Seed, back in 1974/5. Maybe he will give us some info on what he was allowed and not allowed to do even then. This case of a deletion of a whole section of Osho’s original discourse does give pause for thought. Actually, in ordinary circumstances, it is the sort of section that a good Sub Editor might suggest deleting. Should the “enlightened” be subject to different rules? Is editing the Master justified in any circumstances? Seems there are those who think not.
The contributor says: “I found an excerpt of an Osho video amongst a lot of Osho videos from torrent (Russian rip) 45 GB with subtitled files. The Title was :”Nobody allows you be yourself” and I found the English text , and compared it to the video.
Part of the text was missing in the video. It is from ” The great Pilgrimage: from Here to Here”, ch 16 question 2.
Later I found on Youtube, also by chance, the same clip with a Spanish translation.. I checked , and there is also missing the same part.
Later I found on Youtube, also by chance, the same clip with a Spanish translation.. I checked , and there is also missing the same part.
Below is the videoclip (not such good quality as in the Russian rip) but the same producer: OIF Zurich, with copyright and trademark notice..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzMbrdiaEfs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzMbrdiaEfs
Here is the English text of this excerpt (original talk-unchanged) - in red what is missing.
“Nobody wants to allow you to be yourself on matters which are absolutely insignificant. I used to have long hair in my childhood. And I used to come in and out of my father’s shop, because the shop and the home were connected. The home was behind the shop and it was absolutely necessary to pass through the shop.
People would ask, “Whose girl is this?” — because my hair was so long, they could not think that a boy should be having such long hair.
My father felt very ashamed and embarrassed to say, “He is a boy.”
But they said, “Then why all this hair?”
One day — it was not his normal nature –
he became so embarrassed and angry that he came and cut my hair with his own hands. Bringing the scissors with which he used to cut cloth in his shop, he cut my hair. I didn’t say anything to him – he was surprised.
He said, “You don’t have anything to say?”
I said, “I will say it in my own way.”
“So what do you mean?”
I said, “You will see.” And I went to the opium-addict barber who used to have a shop just in front of our house. He was the only man I had a respect for. There was a row of barber shops, but I loved that old man. He was a rare variety, and he loved me; for hours we used to talk to each other. What he was saying was all nonsense!
One day he was saying to me, “If all the opium addicts can be organized
into a political party, we can take over this country!”
I said, “It is a good idea.”
But he said, “Because we are all opium addicts, I myself forget my own idea.”
I said, “You don’t be worried. I am here and I will remember.
You just tell me what changes you want to have in the country,
what kind of political ideology you want, and I will manage it.”
He said, “That’s good.”
So I went to him and I told him, “Just shave my whole head completely.”
In India the head is shaved completely only when your father dies.
For a moment even that opium addict came to his senses.
He said, “What has happened? Has your father died?”
I said, “Don’t bother about these things.
You do what I am saying; it is none of your concern!
You just cut my hair completely, shave it completely. He said, done! that is the easiest job”.
So many times I get into trouble. People say to me,
`Shave the beard,’ and I forget and I shave their heads. They say, `What have you done?’
And I say, `At the most I can say to you don’t pay for it — what is the problem?’”
I used to sit in his shop, because there was always something so ridiculous happening.
He would cut half the mustache of somebody and would say, “Wait, I have remembered some urgent work.
” And the man would say, “But I am caught here in your chair and half the mustache is gone.
I cannot go out of the shop!” He would say, “Simply wait there.”
And then hours will pass and that man is sitting there…”What kind of idiot is this man?”
At one time I had to help by cutting the half mustache of a man. I said, “Now you are free.
Just never come back here again… because that man has not done much harm to you, he just forgets.”
So the barber said, “That’s right. It is none of my concern. If he has died, he has died.”
He shaved my head completely, and I went home. I passed through the shop.
My father looked and all his customers looked. They said, “What happened? Whose boy is this? His father has died.”
My father said, “He is my boy and I am alive! But I knew he was going to do something. He has answered me well.”
Wherever I went people would ask, “What happened? He was perfectly healthy.”
I said, “People die at any age. You are worried about him, you are not worried about my hairs.”
That was the last thing my father ever did to me, because he knew that the answer could be more dangerous!
On the contrary, he brought a certain oil that is used for growing hair.
It is a very costly oil, comes from Bengal out of a certain flower, javakusum.
It is very costly, rare, used only by the richest people — and not by men but by women
– to keep the hair as long as possible. In Bengal I have come across women whose hair touched the earth
– five feet long, six feet long. That oil simply functions powerfully on the hairs.
I said, “Now you understand.”
He said, “I have understood. You use this oil quickly; in a few months your hair will be back.”
I said, “You created the whole mess. What was there to be embarrassed about? You could have said,
`She is my girl.’ I don’t have any objection about that. But you should not have interfered with me the way you did.
It was violent, barbarous. Rather than saying anything to me, you simply started cutting my hair. ”
This issue is always discussed as though there was an evil conspiracy going on.
There is a much more rational explanation.
People who transcribe his words from tapes are space cases; they make mistakes. They space out.
The original source material is shitty old cassette tape. Not the books.
***************************************
A new monk arrives at the monastery. He is assigned to help the other monks in copying the old texts by hand. He notices, however, that they are copying copies, and not the original books.
So, the new monk goes to the head monk to ask him about this. He points out that if there was an error in the first copy, that error would be continued in all of the other copies. The head monk says, “We have been copying from the copies for centuries, but you make a good point, my son.”
So, he goes down into the cellar with one of the copies to check it against the original. Hours later, nobody has seen him. So, one of the monks goes downstairs to look for him. He hears sobbing coming from the back of the cellar and finds the old monk leaning over one of the original books crying. He asks what’s wrong.
“The word is celebrate not celibate,” says the old monk with tears in his eyes.
Good story, Arpana!
“In my day” (broad Yorkshire accent) editors were advised – straight from the Source, ie from Osho himself – to adhere strictly to each and every word he uttered, changing absolutely nothing. On that he was absolutely clear, unequivocal, stressing that what was important was to provide an exact copy, retaining the flavour of his spontaneous speech, no matter how ungrammatical, eg incomplete sentences or even occasional misused words.
This firm instruction, given a week or two after I’d started the ‘Mustard Seed’ assignment, briefly threw me but then came as a relief as until then I’d thought it was my job to ‘improve’ his words, transform them into ‘better’ English, a laborious and time-consuming task.
Clearly, he didn’t want to be ‘airbrushed’ into ‘perfect’-sounding academic English, he preferred the authentic impression of reality, even if flawed.
So all we had to do was organise his words into sentences and paragraphs, applying punctuation and, where necessary, translations of any obscure (eg Indian) terms. All done through checking the tapes against hand-written basic transcripts, taken down by someone else who I believe lived at the ashram.
Doesn’t sound much, but the whole process of 21 discourses took 5 months to prepare for publication. And it was all done outside the ashram, in my room and even sometimes in the Café Bund, just down the road from Koregaon Park. ‘Grass Roots’ stuff indeed!
Osho’s discourses need editing, because quite often he fleshed them up with this and that, some of which was boring and in some cases pertaining to the political climate of the time etc. Who needs to hear about Moraji Desai drinking his urine, when most people don’t know even know who Mr Desai was? Also some of Osho’s jokes were crass and only funny because he was telling them. Now that Osho is dead his public image needs polishing. Pass the Brasso.
When whole work is being edited, there are people who mourn about the editing of the words and correcting the grammatical mistakes.
Is it not like, “Penny wise pound foolish”?
Basically, all those words will be taken away, where Osho says similar like, ” from my hollow bamboo, existence is speaking, and when existence speaks nothing can stop”, or other prophetic statements.
Matter of the fact is, closest two three disciples who are the crown cardinals are not sure, in which category Osho should be appointed into: Messiah, master, mystic – and then what the role of a dead master can be in the fast moving river?
For example, if dead spiritual people become Omnipresent, then simple question is why not rely upon Jesus and other high profile names?
At least they have a solid network, after-sale service and 24×7 hotline!
The whole `following instructions` number is problematic.
for example,are there still sannyasins who wear rubber gloves for sex and don’t kiss anyone because of aids?
osho never revoked all that stuff,did he?
if these aids guidelines sannyasins existed ,they could with some justification, claim to be the ultra-authentic disciples!
(i might have just given KY jelly fetishists a path to enlightenment)
and if people are looking to preserve Osho`s work over the centuries,they may well consider that humour tends to age pretty badly.
Also,it’s worth remembering that language is much more fluid than most people think. Given, say, 2-300 years, things will need updating, at least.
Shakespeare is 500 years old, can’t understand much of that.
And language is changing exponentially faster now with communications etc.
And throw translation into the mix and there’s even more shift.
And simply choosing which books to print from the 360 or whatever, is a form of editing in itself.
The above example might have been a problem if they had cast the junkie barber as a tea-drinker and presented it that Osho argued with his dad about him wearing a Mohican or a perm to school or something like that.
But the story comes over ok.
Osho tells his dad where to stick it, shows no respect for custom and religion and hangs aroung with druggie wasters.
Sounds about right to me.
Thanks SD for your post, at least we know clearly what “the old man” required back in the old days, which is very helpful. And thanks Arpana for your story/joke, there is something in that!
I went to the video in Spanish translation the contributor offers, and watched the whole extract – just 10 minutes. I did feel that Osho was throwing out energy in a sense throughout the discourse, and making contact outside the words, so to “shorten” that contact seems an affront. Every “gap” counts.
so what’s wrong with leaving osho’s words intact? they stand on their own and don’t need other dim wits to mess screw things up. or are you people too embarrassed that Osho said this or said that, you’re making judgements based on your own repressed thoughts . So leave his words as they were said- in original form. that might be too much too ask from neurotic, uptight, Catholic sannyasins.
The atmosphere created by Osho is edited, rituals and traditions crafted by Osho are put upside down, and people are bothered about few paragraphs…
Yes, as human beings, we have a special place in our empty heart for sacred words.
Londoners can create an annual event, reciting Osho books non stop for three months in spring season. underline should be, it will purify the atmosphere from electric rays.
Now, London sannyasins have lost both bald-headed masters, Osho and Pappaji, ‘the Guvnor’.
I agree with Shantam, that London sannyasins should organise an annual Osho book-reading fest to help them get back into the spirit, perhaps in the spring.
(ED: SOME EDITING OF CONTENT IRRELEVANT TO TOPIC HERE)
i worked briefly in the commune checking transcriptions, where texts had been ‘read’ by OCR software. Once i found an obvious mistake, where the OCR had mistaken ‘d’ for ‘cl’, so that the transcription read something like: ‘Cats make better pets than clogs’.
I corrected the word to dogs, and got sharply censored by my supervisor. I respected him, and myself, so collected my things from my clesk and walked out for ever.
(any ED here who ‘corrects’ the word ‘clesk’ to ‘desk’ will find two suffocating tonnes of blancmange descending on their head any moment.)
ECL: You clo your job, I’ll clo mine, ok?
PS: Ever triecl clynamic mecliclation?
Sometime i wonder, why religious leaders think and project this narcissistic feeling, existence or God is working through them.
I think, in that sense business and tech giants are more down to earth and modest.
Has someone heard from the founders of Amazon, Google, Facebook, Starbucks etc. that they are the chosen ones; the blessed ones?
At least new age religions and spirituality need to come out from medieval mindset, if it really wants to impress the contemporary world. One can look at the religious movements of last century, most of them have starved to death, without new recruits, once the charismatic founder said good bye and not to see you again!
I must give credit to Jayesh, Amrito team that they tried to edit this tendency of blowing hot and cold, only problem is they went overboard. After all, you can limit the speed, check the brakes, but cannot drive a petrol driven vehicle with a tank filled with Scotch!
Are masters one with Life, Shantam? If so, why shouldn’t they feel or know that Life (call it Existence or God if you wish) is working through them? What’s so is what’s so, isn’t it, so where’s the narcissism in that? Mind you, I guess only they really know…
Business and tech giants aren’t quite in the same league, are they? So I wonder why you drag them into it…Are you obsessed with such people, rather like a star-struck Indian film or cricket fan, or what?
“I am one with life, the way hair are one with the head.”
It can be a punch line for new brand of Coconut oil.
Target customers- Amazed westerns going to South India in search for Ammas.(Which they have already found through the net)
When I read / hear from persons , such as Satyadeva , I really wish I was present physically during the poona one days , if only wishes were horses . . .
Anyway Iam grateful for relishing the leftover crumbs as well !
Btw I heard from my neighbour late Ma . Jeevan ( American ) , she was working on one before she died in August 2013 , she also said , that since a while the OIF is trying to re-edit the books to every coma & full stop , as per original publications .
When I read / hear from persons , such as Satyadeva , I really wish I was present physically during the poona one days , if only wishes were horses . . .
Anyway Iam grateful for relishing the leftover crumbs as well !
Btw I heard from my neighbour late Ma . Jeevan ( American ) ,she said , that since a while the OIF is trying to re-edit the books to every coma & full stop , as per original publications , she was working on one such book before she died in August 2013 .
Ah, Kavita, beware of that “If Only” voice. Verily I say unto thee, ’tis the devil in disguise! (But you already know that).
Although it’s not quite your angle, this song and the video images present regrets about the past rather well…
The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.
Thankyou sd
Good Kavita, at least you got the leftover crumbs!
Think about the people now.
I don´t create any analogy. Just imagine; what is left when leftover crumbs are also gone!
What’s the big problem, Shantam?
There are so many videos, books…flourishing Centres in various places…plenty of younger people coming on board in those areas…
Besides, Life will also no doubt play its part, through the above and in other, most mysterious ways….
Shantam , I stopped thinking on those lines as I realized I have no energy for something which is out of my control , ofcourse I won’t discourage you & my other fellow travellers who feel otherwise . I guess one has to go through one’s own journey .
I think from time to time in Hindi and English Osho has spoken something like, “I will be known through my books”.
Can some wise disciple or book editor let me know, name of the books.
I know few friends have a Disc Encyclopaedia, may be they can search this sentence of vast importance.
I wish to use this for the next article.
Thanks
My observation is that in the early years Osho’s words were edited for punctuation and spelling. Then the editing was about grammar and correct English expression. Presently words, sentences, entire paragraphs, jokes, etc. are being edited from reprinted books.
Osho’s words are being collected and organized into compilation books that are not his original discourse series but books that are popular and salable to the mass market. His books are turned into commodities.
I guess the people in charge have dropped all pretense of keeping Osho’s words 24-carat gold, which is the argument they always offer in the discussion of copyrights. Looks like they want to prevent anyone else from doing what they are doing.
Not forgetting organising into sentences and paragraphs in the early years, Dhanyam! Ah, the internal debates and hair-splitting that went on in those far-off days…
All the subsequent editing and repackaging may or may not be a good thing, I guess it depends whether the genuine flavour of Osho is somehow retained on the page.
Yet although I can see the rationale behind these developments, something in me feels a bit disturbed, as if we’re witnessing the beginnings of how all masters’ words and teachings somehow, perhaps inevitably, become changed, ‘twisted’ or corrupted even, to suit the interests and aims of the people ostensibly aiming to serve their work after they’ve departed. It might seem innocent enough at the start, but who knows where it might lead…
If pushed, I think I’d come down on the side of ‘no interference’ of the original recording/text. For if people really want the Truth from a dead master, let them seek it as it actually was when he was here, not any possibly conveniently ‘watered down’ version that might happen to suit new generations of would-be ‘spiritual consumers’, however short their attention spans.
It’s not a matter of being ‘elitist’, simply a wish to preserve the flow of the original spring, as it were, as far as possible.
I reckon its not so much a case of altering the content of what Osho said but rather getting rid of the dross. Brilliant though he was it is inevitable that in the course of a two hour discourse there are places where the words can be tidied up to create a more concise bit of reading for the reader. Even the most brilliant writers have someone edit their manuscripts. Osho was not a writer he was an orator and therefore there is even more likelihood that his words need editing when being transferred to written text.
Osho’s words can be improved upon purely on an asthetic level. The idea that everything Osho did was perfect, including his discourses is a fallacy. There is room for improvement in the delivery of his various themes and I think such a procss will make his life’s work more accessable to readers, as long as the essence is not tampered with. Besides, as most of us already know, Osho stressed again and again that his real message was contained within the space between the words. In other words, silence.
I see your points, Lokesh, it’s a decent case.
Yet why then, did he insist upon keeping his words exactly as originally delivered? Surely because he didn’t want to risk the danger of their being ‘corrupted’, however well-meaning editors’ intentions might be.
Also, perhaps more important – and I seem to recall (but can’t be totally sure) that he specifically mentioned this in person to his editors – because retaining the pristine flow would be more likely to reproduce the effect of the spoken word, of the alive human being, which he preferred to merely coming across as another erudite philosopher/writer, as it were. And therefore perhaps more likely to hint at those ‘silences’, that Silence…?
Yet why then, did he insist upon keeping his words exactly as originally delivered?
Probably some knd of ego trip.
“Osho’s stressed again and again that his real message was contained within the space between the words. In other words, silence.”
Lokesh has squeezed the juice out of an Orange.
But most probably it will not come in the mind of wise guys that you need to have a orange field to grow oranges, so that you can squeeze the juice out.
Words and silence, worlds and silence; so simple, easier would have been to spread this from the 250 Square meter bungalow in Jabalpur!
Shantam. is it true you were born in Jabberpuri?
Mesmerising through His discourses for more than 35 years, before leaving the body, Osho suggests a sub title for one of the Hindi book meaning,
” Wish to say, but to whom; who cares to listen.”
Shantam , is this a satire , never heard / read about this title , thanx for sharing anyway ,
No Kavita, it is not satire.
” Wish to say, but to whom; who cares to listen.” is may be not a proper translation of the sub title of an Hindi book, but I feel it conveys the feelings…
“कहूं तो किस से कहूं, सुनता कॊन हैं ! “
The hindi title sounds so tender , for proper translation maybe only Gulzar ( indian poet ) could do justice !
Shantam recently made a comment about anonymous postings at SN and now we have a topic based on accusations – that does not even have a name ascribed to it.
Not even the courtesy of swami Anon. All we know is that it is ‘someone’
I am curious to know where this ‘someone’ found the English text for the video?
Was it here by any chance?: http://i.imgur.com/dGQW4LM.jpg
I suspect the answer is No.
If the emoticon is suppose to imply some nefarious activity by OIF in relation to the video.
Then why is unabridged text freely available from their library?
And have you compared all 45gb of video with its English text?
Your profound revelations seem to rely on some very good fortune. (A suspicious amount???)
Maybe you should go and buy a few lottery tickets.
I also have good fortune – a copy of the ‘The Mustard Seed’ which I purchased in the 70′s
(no free downloads available then) http://i.imgur.com/jYyUheW.jpg
As this is clearly an original copy it is interesting to note the following:
The final chapter in the book is: http://i.imgur.com/nVuSJVN.jpg
And
The final chapter from OIF library is: http://i.imgur.com/oYBvDQU.jpg
Vs.
The final chapter from a PDF downloaded from the website of a well known ‘edited’ version of Osho is: http://i.imgur.com/YpCSLmS.jpg
A whole chapter gone AWOL???
So tell us ‘someone’ in which direction to point a ‘smoking gun’ now?
(Although I doubt very much you will crawl out from your hiding place to answer. Will you?)
http://i.imgur.com/zR0UCTQ.jpg
From an American Paperback published in the seventies,
which is the same as the PDF version I have.
Arps.
You have Vol 1 which seems to tally.
The hardback includes Vol 2
And its the last chapter from Vol 2 that is missing from the PDF.
Didn’t realise there was a second volume.
Mustard seed contains a chapter, ‘riding two horses,’ which zapped me the first time I read it and has never gone away.
Chapter 21 tallies on my PDF and my American paperback.
There are valid reasons to edit Osho’s words, but who is the one to do the editing today, tomorrow, and in the future? Once editing is allowed, there is no end to where the editing goes and who is in charge of editing, to decide and approve, now and in the future? So I can understand why Osho wanted his words exactly as he spoke them.
I agree with this Dhanyam,
but given pretty much everybody
whose involved with Osho is a
perfectionist in one way or
other, the chance of varying
degrees of tinkering with anything
and everything, all the time;
stopping, is nil.
After seeing sw. a a ‘s http://i.imgur.com/jYyUheW.jpg , I withdraw my ma -dom !
It must be understood, that Osho’s texts must be adjusted gradually to the common Hermetic regime, for a coming future according materialist understanding. Please don’t resist and follow the Order. Do not doubt and don’t believe like any other modern materialist.
Swami Anubodh,
There is no someone but a real one; the one and the only jayesh!
Without decoding the mysterious phenomenon called Jayesh, at least the whole sannyas movement will go on chasing the shadows.
And for the rest of the world, it does not matter.
Cn O’h’ ev’ b ed’td ?
I dunn’ , b’t , the vid’o subtitles w’d b d’fic’lt t’ rd th’n , ….
th’ s”nd o’ one a’d c’apping ???
that would be cr’p, wo’dn tit ?
Someone mentioned Shakespeare….id like to quote one of the bard’s works, which feels relevant to all the blah blah …Much Ado about Nothing….
(Exit stage left)
As a newer sannyasin, I find the original texts to be more in the spirit of Osho’s original message.
Historically, it is wonderful to see the photos and format that he approved before the books were first published. It allows me to feel closer to him in spirit and feel as part of the sannyasin community as a whole.
As a musician, for one to sanitize the original music of Elvis (remember Pat Boone?) and take the blues music that influenced him out of the equation and historical time period, would take the true heart and soul out of the music itself.
Thus, the same with the words of Osho. I am thrilled that original versions of his work are still available to someone like myself. I prefer them over the newer versions for many aesthetic reasons (visually, tactilely, etc.).
Champak