Those who lived in Poona one, (1974 to 81) were aware that Osho sort of guarded his personal biography, and discouraged its exploration. He once told a friend of mine, a writer, okay, if they want a biography “You just make it up and I’ll check it”! It all seemed rather mysterious, and also we were encouraged by Osho’s then regular repeating that he had no teachers, and was self taught. We were also encouraged to only think of the “now” and the past had no bearing whatsoever upon it. There were then, as it were no remarkable men, as there were in Gurdjieff’s life, on whose shoulders he stood.
However this was to change. I remember in 1985 reading with some surprise the first edition of “Glimpses of a Golden Childhood” and thought it might be a sort of fiction,. especially as I had the experience of my friend who had been told at one point to “make up” a biography.
Nonetheless I kept my eye for the second Edition where an ancient photograph of Megga Baba was included in the text!
According to “Glimpses” Osho knew this sadhu when he used to visit his village, when he was near about 12. “Glimpses” was a dictated book from the dentist’s chair and under the influence of a hallucinogenic (nitrous oxide) so the text may be treated with some scepticism as a definitive account.
All the same some “facts” seem to be verifiable. Megga means “big cup” in Hindi and that was the sadhu’s only possession. He used it for everything, for begging, eating, drinking, etc. Further, that he certainly had no known biography, just turning up in villages in mid India, and never speaking save in gibberish. A certain genuine silence must have emanated from him, as even ordinary villagers would gather round him and”just sit”.
Osho claims to have visited him each evening under a Neem tree where he slept every night. Osho describes him as a sort of “spiritual nourishment”. He continues: “He helped me tremendously although he never gave any instructions except by his very being. Just by his very presence he triggered unknown forces in me, and unknown to me.” This is a good standard description of “transmission” which so eludes many commentators.
In addition, though only speaking gibberish to others, Osho claims that in the middle of the night when no-one was there he spoke to him regularly.
One day Megga Baba told Osho he was not coming back to the village, but going to the Himalayas, blessed him as the only one worth blessing!, and left never to be seen again. Osho claimed that Magga is buried in a small village called Pahalgam in Kashmir, (where Jesus is also said to be buried!). (Anyone reading this from that village please verify!).
So that’s it, really. If true, or based somehow on an early encounter Osho had with a sadhu, then we can say that Osho did have guides in his development, two other sadhus are also mentioned later in Glimpses, and together with both his grandfather and grandmother make him look a little more like others who have reached. It is also clear that even if Osho himself considered, or wished himself to be seen, as having very little by way of teachers, he embraced the paradigm of the teacher/disciple in his own work in transforming others, and also through his silence the power of transmission that not a few of us felt.
Parmartha
Osho elevated and debunked his own mystique.
osho was establishing what was an absolutely necessary component of the mystical guru master/disciple theatre.
“the negation of human finitude,the denial of human limits and the claim to transcend history and time are distinctive devices of all mystical `cults` and comprise the essential building blocks of their theory and practice.”
“in the mystical, enlightenment-seeking groups,biographical accounts of the guru that are not excercises in hagiography are seen as false in essence and contrary to the aims that the groups are working towards,which is transcendence beyond all limits including time.”
Who are you quoting, Frank?
its a mash-up of me and sudhir kakar.
but don’t forget,the truth of it or otherwise can only be authorised by you.
in short,its a magic show.
in order to get his audience to experience the wonder of magic,the magician doesn’t tell the crowd what he is doing.
same with enlightenment.
the cats out of the bag now.
people know how its done.
the allure of magic is so great that the crowds keep coming even tho` they know there`s a bit of sleight of chakra going on….
but it`ll fizzle out eventually and
we`ll need new tricks for a new age.
there is an unknown group of ,in a secret location who are working on these new tricks at this very moment….
but for obvious reasons,i can`t say much about it right now………
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR2DfAhwo5c3dhoLdkB-FQyhQMCbiuIVCd-cboDzMeXy1YhBmGYZQ
Glimpses is one of my favorite Osho books, even taking in to account that it is alright never to let telling a lie spoil a good story and Glimpses is a great story.
Parmartha says, ‘make him look a little more like others who have reached.’
I’m not at all certain what Osho ‘reached’ in the enlightenment stakes and don’t feel the need to use such terminology when relating to him. He was where he was and if that was a help to someone that is more than enough. Afterall, we only have Osho’s word for it that he was enlightened and you can take it or leave it, because how can you know that unless enlightened yourself? The whole enlightenment thing has had its day in the sannyas world. Just look at the people who believe that this or that person is enlightened when to many regulars on SN it looks farsical. Could it not be the case that others see Osho’s sannyasins as farsical also? I’m sure they do.
I’m sure Osho had many teachers in life like we all have had. He was a marvellous orator for instance. I don’t think such a quality came entirely naturally. Surely someone helped him hone that talent in his university years etc. Osho was not a god. He was a human being just like you and I. He often said as much and I for one appreciate that.
Osho did have a bald, shiny head which does seem to be some kind of common denominator, or perhaps a sign, of enlightenment.
Osho, Pappaji, George Guidjeff…the list is endless. The classic bald head is the tell-tale sign for me.
SS, that is very good news to my well-used ears.
looking at gurulocoji – certainly others would see that oshos sannyasins are farcical if they take him for a representative of sannyasins – which he pretends to be
“the whole enlightenment thing has had its day in the sannyas world” ? – how wierd an idea you come up with – as though the science of transformation of human energies that has been the experience of sannyasins since thousands of years is just a passing disco fashion
DR, what are you talking about? Do you actually go around promising enlightenment? Can I have some?
you wouldnt like it vartan – freedom brings responsibility – its not for childish minds and anyway it cant be given
DeRage, if you are an example of what enlightenment does for one you can keep it to yourself. It looks like a terminal illness.
again you are saying shut up – guruloco – you yourself are experiencing the “terminal illness” – all that you are imagining you are will simply evaporate on your death, and your stories and dramas will be seen to have the value of the movie you saw which reached its close and is forgotten
More borrowed – therefore pseudo – knowledge, DR?
Why not stick to what you actually know, from your own experience, rather than attempting to impress by ‘playing the guru’?
Or are you a terminal case of ‘guru-itis’?
Oooooh, DeRage is bringing out the big guns. Now it is death, Scary! The other day it was the fire of consciousness that will burn you up if you get too near and now its the good old grim reaper in town. All DeRage’s talk of love goes out the window as soon as a little veneer is scraped off to reveal the uptight weirdo full of doom and gloom. No surprises there.
ha ha ha – gurulocoji – i come back briefly just to answer you –
you yourself have brought up the subject of death – thats what terminal illness means – an illness ending in death
sorry to hear the fact of death is grim and scary for you and denotes doom and gloom – as you have no escape from it other than a dissolving into consciousness and a surrendering of all that you have and that you think you are – best to understand this while you are still alive
and death is nothing to be scared of really – its a beautiful experience and the fulfillment of life when you relax into it and dont fight against it – what can be more satisfying than to lose all and dissolve the drama – the ultimate orgasm
and satyadeva – i am speaking from my own experience in this
anyway i have decided to leave you to it in this little pond of yours you will be happy to know – its been fun for a while but ultimately a waste of energy – so – bye bye – ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
DeRage, I’ll miss you….like a sore head. I’ll be genuinely surprised if you don’t reappear in this little pond within a few weeks, even being such a big toad and all that. It must be ever so tiring for you, hanging out with us tadpoles.
That’s as true for you, as for guruloco,
or haven’t you realised?
Arps, I beg to differ. I don’t find what is being said here in the least way true for me.
DeRage is stooping to the level of bogie man. Creating a world that is full of things to be afraid of. As if to say one should be afraid of awakened people, because they will burn you with fire. Death is something to be afraid of. Such a far cry from Osho saying that death is the ultimate orgasm etc.
I’ve been very close to death. One degree fahrenheit from my brain overheating and causing my motor systems to collapse. Close to the edge, one might say. What I brought back from there is good news. Death ends our suffering and defeats the feeling of separateness we all experience as humans. There is nothing to be afraid of. You can interpret that last sentence whatever way you wish.
I only meant it in the sense your both going to die.
I say Arpana…How did you know the bearded one was going to-day ?
Did you notice him talking of death positively, prematurely, ..with a desire to disappear, maybe ,yes to die ?
When you say he will be back …Are you referring to reincarnation , or do you think he’s got on his bike and gone off to see a trick pscyclist ?
@ pm.
I’m channeling the collective wisdom of the SN regulars.
Parmartha please tell ‘em about Energy Darshan….
As this reductionism really gets on my tits. What do I mean by ‘this’…. well..
This is my take on the replies above,
I’m all for cutting out the guff, but just emptying the whole shebang into a plastic carrier bag won’t do. Frank is hilarious but utterly non existent as even a virtual person. So how can ‘Frank’ (the mystery voice-over from The Prisoner series) declare of this or that when he doesn’t declare of himself. He’s non contextual. That’s not exactly a model sufficiently worthy of modelling in the real world in toto , either is it ? And Lokesh , you must take the piss out of who you hold in your back pocket or on the reserve bench aka Ramana et al, or this bracketing of a certain ‘qualified’ (as in reductionist) Osho doesn’t hold for long neither as credible nor reflective.Even in between the lines. Unless it directly serves you and your preferences. In which case , great.
As for the Klingons they are an easy target, and leads to non generative exchanges.
Whilst also being altogether loquacious is not actually the end but the means, at least in part. Releasing all manner of falsities doesn’t of themselves add up to or have any much effect (read none) on what Osho himself directly transmitted and lives on in those who were testament , and is referred to here in the article as well. Clearly The Sublime is everywhere , even in Osho, and can penetrate even the most laboured soul, and has no discernible connection to our mundanity. The quality of the transfixed beingness is not within reception of our daily antennas,(usually) and nor can it be seen in retrospect as extensions of merely simplistic camraderie. Just because what we are made of is fully suspected but partially realised, doesn’t mean to say it can be classified, through what amounts to guess-work by anyone however sophisticated or dumb.
I loved the love .. I still do.. How many times do we want to discuss belief as a substitute and any of its ramifications as indicators or signposts. What does anyone care if everything is merely reduced to belief, and effort and the ramshackle constructions of limited, inherited, partially consumed choice.
Good post. Senor M.
in the last thread Arpana has written-
We fell in love with him(Osho)
He showed us our golden shadow.
In this article, his impression is-
Osho elevated and debunked his own mystique.
Problem with the Western seekers is that they went to master-disciple thing inspite of negation from their collective mind.
Once Osho died, it was not easy for the same people to resist their collective mind. That is why western sannyasins try their best to give rational answers to the situations which are quite irrational yet can help in a very significant way.
For example, in resort, once Jayesh team took over the complete charge of the property, they made it mandatory that no one should bow down when Osho is shown walking with Namaste on the screen. Their logic, new people will find the idea absurd to bow down before an image.
After a few months, they stoped showing the bigining or the end of the video, just the talk.
Same is the level of western participants of this blog. Now they are trying to see every mystical aspect through rational approach.
It is like taking the stool to the lab. for the enquiry, ” what kind of fruit salad was eaten the night before.”
Ridiculous fool who knows nothing about himself and everything about thousands of others he has never met.
Shantypants says, ‘Their logic, new people will find the idea absurd to bow down before an image.’
This is so utterly daft. Shantypants have you ever heard of a guy called The Pope? The Christian church has been selling the illogical and absurd for two thousand years. India does not have a monopoly on bizzare religious practices.
When I use the word “Reached” Lokesh, it is a manner of speech.
In “Notes of a Madman” Osho gives the lie to this when he speaks at the end of one “Session” -
“Wipe the tears from my eye. I have to pretend to be enlightened, and enlightened people are not supposed to cry” (Page 8 of my Edition).
I can only speak from direct experience of transmission, not of Osho’s views or his oratory, but the transmission I experienced in his presence. That was something else, and I have had no experience of it anywhere else, at least in such magnitude.
You will know from many of my other posts, etc, that I am no friend to the word “enlightened”, and like you also dislike the way it tends to divide human beings. But the old boy was sure in touch with something of the beyond and the stuff that makes stars!
i have experience of what you speak parmartha – both from osho and from rajneesh – that energetic phenomenon – that transmssion – its a shame that when i attempt to tell about it my comments are deleted
ED: DHYAN RAJ, I THINK YOU KNOW THE RULES HERE BY NOW.
PM says, ‘the old boy was sure in touch with something of the beyond and the stuff that makes stars!’
No doubt about that. Extraordinary to say the least. I do suspect just a wee part of it had to do with our inexperience in such matters. Nonetheless, for me also Osho was incomparable on an energetic transmission level.
How you can know yourself, if you have not written a book about knowing yourself?
What is the fun of knowing oneself, if there is no feed back from others?
It is really very hard to imagine for the western intelligent people that they too have the collective mind.
It is almost like thinking, people who work in the show business don’t fart!
Wondering if , commentators like Frank & Fresch ( maybe both are one & the same person ) who don’t reveal their real identity due to some sort of superstition / merely for the fun of it , have found a shield in Magga Baba ? is this some kind of a Matryoshka !
Energetic Transmission Level?
Wow!
ETL!
“Sir, i have a new name, i have new clothes and i have resigned from my job, would you be kind enough to transmit the energy in me?”
Do Spiritual masters have to play the role of tyre mechanics to check the pressure and fill the air?
Air pumping in cycle tyres; 5 Rupees per wheel.
New owners have installed the automatic machine. Help yourself!
Shantypants, seeing as how you were just a face in the crowd at the back of Buddha Hall and receiving very little in the way of ETL its hardly surprising that you endeavour to poke fun at it because you obviously missed out on something. Better luck next time.
Matter of the fact is the moment president enters the hall, energy level changes, Same is about the queen; the electrifying silence.
For teeny meenies, it can be Biber or Gaga!
Near the start of the first mass gathering with Osho present at the July ’83 week in Rajneeshpuram – it might well have been just as he appeared onstage – I was sitting near the back when I felt what I can only describe as ‘a subtle wave of benign energy’ very swiftly coming towards me, seemingly via the many people in front of me, reaching me in an instant.
What was it – tuning in to the collective exchange between Osho and his people, me included? I think so and as such I’d say it qualifies as such a “transmission”. I’ve found one or two other teachers have had strong energetic effects, but far from all.
I’m surprised, Shantam, that something similar didn’t happen for you, I’ve always tended to think everyone experienced stuff like that with Osho.
Btw, at the end of that Oregon ‘meeting’, when I got up and turned to hurry to a place where I could see Osho as he passed by, I saw that sitting right behind me was none other than Ma Yoga Sudha, who had introduced me to Osho via dynamic meditation, over 10 years before – and who I hadn’t seen for 9 years, when en route to Poona for the first time, coming across her at Cairo airport, on her way back to London from India. And that week in Oregon was my first time with Osho since that first lengthy stay. Meaningful synchronicity or just random events?
Looks like the Klingons aren’t the only ones partaking of glue pot vapours today.
Osho making a joke about himself!! ..When Osho reached heaven after death…………What did God say?
============================
Osho had dropped his body. When he arrived at the entrance to Heaven, St Peter was waiting to usher him to a special tribunal which had been set up to indict him on charges of sacrilege, heresy, libel, slander, defamation of character and obstruction of saints and Masters in the performance of their work.
‘Listen,’ whined Jesus in a nasal Jewish voice, ‘this goy told the whole world that I was a four-foot hunchback with a st… stut… stutt… stutter. And he made uu… uu… up di… dirty jokes about Mmm… Mother and the Holy… Gggh… Ghost. And now nobody can take me seriously anymore!’
‘That’s nothing!’ shouted Mahavira in his thick Bihar accent. ‘He said that I was squatting to shit when I became enlightened, and that I was a sado-masochist, covered in lice and dirt, and had the foulest breath in the whole of India!’
Buddha, remembering to stay upwind of the Jaina teerthankara, butted in quickly. ‘This… this… this crazy bloke had the impudence to say that he was putting my wheel of dharma in motion again. Just when it was gaining speed in America and Europe, this Osho comes along and sticks a spoke in my wheel, stops it, puts it into reverse and then says that he is carrying on my work!’
Adi Shankara, speaking for endless rows of rishis, paramahansas and yogis, approached the witness stand next: ‘For countless ages the saffron robe of the sannyasin, his austerity and chastity, his poverty and his renunciation of the world were universally respected. Then this charlatan destroyed all that in seven years! Now they are driving around on motor bikes, smoking and drinking, womanizing and having fun! They call it meditation. And they call themselves by the most outrageous names: Swami Veet Pete, Ma Sachchakhanda, Swami Wolfgangananda. This Osho has made a mockery of our religion!’
The Holy Ghost was called to the witness stand. Of course, since he was not a person, only a presence, he could not speak. But he made his presence felt by loud thunderclaps and earthquakes. It was made clear from this, said St Peter, that the Holy Ghost was really pissed off with the accused.
Mother Teresa was the last witness to appear for the prosecution. ‘I have only this to say: I spent my life trying to help poor helpless cripples like that man there,’ she said, pointing to Jesus, whom she did not recognize. ‘This Osho mocked my efforts. I say he must be given the Ignoble Prize for all his many sins. I speak on behalf of Jesus Christ and the Polack Pope!’
The judge, God himself, asked Osho if he had anything to say in his own defense.
‘Perhaps a few jokes…’ said Osho tentatively.
‘I see you are beyond redemption,’ said God, a certain malicious glee now creeping into his face and his voice. ‘I hereby banish you from heaven for all eternity and cast you into the seventh hell!’
‘Thank God!’ cried Osho joyfully. ‘For one dreadful moment I thought you were going to tell me to stay here! Now I can be with my people again!’
Osho, Zen: Zest, Zip, Zap and Zing, Ch 2, Q 1
Thanks for this. Not heard it before.
Namaste.
ah well lokesh and friends – sannyas news is a very small pond inhabited by a few tadpoles – and the world is big – its time for me to move on, no need to waste any more time with you – so you will be pleased to hear – goodbye
He’ll be back.
Osho has clarified in few Q&As that he actually had millions of masters. He said he learned from every creature that he came across. Same thing with Buddha, even though there was no master in this life ( as Sidharth), he had masters in the past life. According to a story, In one of Buddha’s past life he touched the feet of an enlightened master ( forgot his name) and that man immediately touched the feet of the Buddha. He explained Budha that in forth coming life he ( Buddha) would be enlightened.
Its unfortunate that Sannyasnews is again and again posting this kind of one sided threads. Its a foolish attempt to analyse Osho like this and I am afraid the truth is lost in doing so. Are we trying to build personality profile of Osho? what a waste of juice? Try something else man..
This is a very limited format, and inevitably dominated by those who have most energy to put into typing, regardless of intelligence, perceptiveness or discerning faculties.
I believe SN is open to contributions and ideas so why not submit one or two yourself, AN?
Anand Newman,
Please share a bit of biographical profile and if possible some photo too.
This should be done basically in the very begining.
Only the rapists and Talibans go all the way without introducing themselves!
And i am sure, you are a wise and nice gentleman or lady, so why to hesitate.
Nobody else does manipulative quite like you Shants.
Shantam, Haven’t you heard Kabir saying ” jati na poocho sadhu ki, pooch lijiye gyan”. ( don’t ask the family background of a sadhu, but seek the truth from him)…ha.. ha..Thats what I am doing, I am learning from all of you here at SN.
I am just like any other Sannyasin, happened to connect with Osho only after he left his body. Born and brought up in India and moved to west to pursue professional as well as spiritual interests. Reading Osho I developed lot of respect to West and I still do. At the same time I carry the taste of east within me. I am for a united family of Osho and support any thing that helps realize his dreams.
I carry the taste of east within me.
Vindaloo curry?
It’s a burning question.
And Anand, do you have the facebook account with the similar name or there you use sannyas name or legal name?
i am asking for this reason, more than half the people who write at this open blog do it by hiding their identity.
Sometime i wonder, do we write spiritual erotica here; incest in the spiritualy dysfunctional family?
Ah, I see Shantypants is chanelling the spirit of Bundes Grenze Inspector, checking papers as the refugees pour across the porous border into SNlandia.
shantam prem says:
>> Sometime i wonder, do we write spiritual erotica here; incest in the spiritualy dysfunctional family?
Don’t go there.
16 years old girl has accused Hinduism’s top earner saint Sh. Asa Ram ji for sexual abuse. Asa Ram has few million followers and therefore he is now in all the news channels because of this molestation charges.
Baba has said, it cannot be true. He treated girl as his grand child as her parents are his disciples..
First of all, in the history of humanity, was there a single accused who has accpeted, yes, the charge is right. Denial is such a strong emotion, king or the saint, all use it when needed.
In Asa Ram ji’ case, this grand daughter thing can be even more lethal. It is taking advantage of the close relations, where trust is the very base.
Any way, i don’t think baba would have gone all the way till rape, just litlle touching here, touchng there in the name of tenderness and blessings.
Shantypants declares, ‘Denial is such a strong emotion.’
Is it? I find that statement does not quite have the ding-dong of truth about it. Is denial an emotion? I’d say it was more of a mental action. Not a feeling.
You are correct Loki, denial is a (mental) defense mechanism to protect the guilty from the truth. Emotion is exactly what a denial is trying to avoid by compartmentalizing (my favourite word) the experience.
BV .. (on LOki ) …that’s very nice and useful to have so clearly described..
ta v m.
Thought as much. Shantypants is receiving a free education here on SN. Isn’t life wonderful?
Now we will move on to the delicate art of chuddy disposal.
STEP 1…..
“The thing about denial is that it doesn’t feel like denial when it’s going on.”
I think there is much material at google search, which points towards denial as feeling rather thought.
Though i won’t go into the academic discussion. fact is denial is a primary weapon to take the blame away from oneself and implant on others.
If we leave Osho’s toffee like words aside, real life sannyas movement has many instances of denial. This tradition of denial will be followed by all the chairpersons, till the day only books remain.
Sounds like Shantypants is enjoying his cut price crystal ball that he picked up at LIDL. Pity it doesn’t actually work.
If you’re looking at de-nial and highpriests and sex then look no further than one of my homeboy videos.
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The Turin Erotic Papyrus..
I’ve always liked Nefertiti’s bust. Although that’s another story.
full programme
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Historically, every time man tried sexual liberation he was stopped by VDs. It really does look that nature doesn’t want man to be fucking around too much.